The Ringer NFL Show - Super Bowl Observations, Aaron Rodgers Darkness Retreat, and Don’t Trade for Derek Carr | The Scramble

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Sheil is joined by The Ringer’s Lindsay Jones to discuss their Super Bowl week observations (1:37). Then they run through some recent news items, including Aaron Rodgers's four-day darkness retreat, Derek Carr’s visit with the Saints, and how the Sean Payton–Russell Wilson dynamic will work in Denver (9:16). They wrap up by talking about the possibility of seeing a trick play in the Super Bowl (41:26). Host: Sheil Kapadia Guest: Lindsay Jones Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're lost in the darkness, look for the pod. Specifically, the Prestige TV podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, where we're breaking down every new episode of HBO's The Last of Us. On Sunday nights, grab your battery and join Van Lathen and Charles Holmes for an instant reaction to the latest episode. Then head back to the QZ on Tuesdays for a deep dive with Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin. From character arcs to video game adaptation choices, story themes to needle drops, we'll parse every inch of this cordyceps-coded universe.

Watch out for mouth tendrils and follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Scramble, Sheel Capadia here. It's Super Bowl week. We are in sunny Phoenix, Arizona. We're going to talk Eagles cheese, but we're going to take a little spin around the league. A lot of stuff continues to go on. 30 other teams making their offseason plans, thrilled to be joined by my friend,

my ringer colleague who I get to see in person this week. Lindsay Jones, Lindsay, how we doing? I'm great, Sheel. What you did not mention is that you and I are the Girl Scout cookie dealers. of Super Bowl week. That is what you and I also have in comment, in addition to all of the ringer co-worker stuff. That's correct. I forgot to deliver my daughters to the Athletics Bo Wolf back in Philadelphia. So, you know, I was tasked with you got to pack that up and you got to deliver it, take it all the way to Phoenix and deliver it to Bo Wolf, which I did yesterday.

So that's out of my suitcase for the rest of the week. But we are talking Eagles Chiefs. Let's start with it. We're just going to go headlines. We're doing headlines for this show. We'll finish with a mailbag question, but we're here. This has consumed our lives for the last three days or so, going to availability, talking to players, talking to coaches. We'll, of course, have the big ringer NFL preview show with our colleagues later in this week. But what's just something that's stood out to you? Is there something as you're going through this? You had a thing, you know, sometimes thoughts just pop up in your mind, maybe big picture, maybe something small in the game. What has been one takeaway from being here and covering the Super Bowl so far? Yeah. Well,

Well, I mean, there's this like under the radar storyline. I'm not sure if you heard about. Travis Kelsey and Jason Kelsey are brothers. I'm not sure if you might, you know, might be a little story tip for you to follow later this week. I mean, we are getting bashed over the head with the story. I saw Donna Kelsey on Radio Row yesterday. You know, we've reached the point in the week officially. You know, we're recording this pretty early Wednesday morning. And I think we're done with some of those stories, right? Like until maybe we get to game day. So I'm at the point. the week now where, you know, the teams are going to start practicing today. It's going to start feeling normal. Like the silliness is kind of over. So now we're going to start getting like, okay, like, what does the chief's injury report look like? How is Patrick Mahomes's ankle? What's the status of their, you know, wide receiver core? How's the gerius Sneed who is in the concussion protocol? You know, and then with the Eagles where, you know, they're significantly healthier,

but, you know, still a couple questions. So, you know, what are they going to look like now when stuff starts to feel like the football stuff is starting again. And there's so many intriguing matchups about this game, you know, the line play, you know, what the Eagles run game is going to play. I just think there's a lot of fun football stuff that now we really get to start focusing on. Yeah, no doubt about it. It was funny during media night, Eagles offensive line coach Jeff Stoutland. There's just like a huge circle around him for the offensive line coach.

Like this doesn't generally happen, but I think everyone looks at it like you do. I mean, it's such an intriguing matchup. One team has the all-time. quarterback. The other team is more talented if you just go position by position in most other spots. So definitely up front. I was zooming out and there was this moment during media night where I think Jay Glazer was interviewing Andy Reid and Nick Siriani. And I was just like, man, these guys are in two thought, think of how different the spots are for these two guys. And I was just thinking about the legacies involved in this game. I mean, Andy Reid, Hall of Fame coach, one of the great coaches

since we've been covering the league longer than that, the last 20 plus years. If he goes 20, you know, it already feels a little light, right? It feels like he should have won more Super Bowls at this point. We don't need to get into all the reasons why he hasn't. But it's like if he loses another one and you're just looking at his career, you're like one Super Bowl in 24 years for Andy Reed with all the games he's won, that would feel kind of weird. Not that this is his last season coaching or that he's not going to have other opportunities,

but at some point when you're kind of, we're looking at 20 years from now, what do people think of some of these coaches? Like the Super Bowl rings obviously matter. So he's got that at stake. I was looking at Patrick Mahomes, you know, and I remember a couple years ago thinking, all right, you know, this Chiefs Buck Super Bowl, maybe Mahomes will have a chance to catch Brady at some point.

He's only 27 years old. If they win this game, he's got two at 27. I just looked it up. I think Brady won his third at 27. So we expect Mahomes to have a long, career. And if you loses it, again, if you're a chiefs fan for as fun as these last five years have been, are you going, I thought we would have more than one at this point with Patrick Mahom. So with those two guys specifically just kind of, how do you think about their legacies and kind of

what kind of impact of winner loss here can have? Yeah, it's like you've been previewing our website, story budget of stories to come at the ringer.com, especially coming up because, yeah, we've got a that's going to be published on Thursday, very much looking at Andy Reid's kind of legacy and not just the five years that he's been together with Patrick Mahomes, but the decade that he had in Kansas City and, you know, the potential dynasty that they could be building. Andy Reid's kind of coaching resume and where he stocks up against some of the greatest coaches of all time. I mean, I think it's very much that he is a Hall of Fame coach. Those conversations are always kind of challenging to me because especially now,

I've been a Hall of Fame voter for the last couple of years and have been in now those like coaching meetings, the coach contributor meetings. And they're all like all the guys who are talked about there like, you say, oh yeah, they're a Hall of Famer. But the bar is so, so, so high and it's really hard to get out of that group. But he has like a slam dunk case, right? And a second Super Bowl win would make it even more of a slam dunk case than it already is. But it would rocket him into like a different stratosphere of discussions when we're talking. about the greatest coaches of all time, not just one of the best, you know, one of the best of the modern era of his generation, he would be into a completely different class, which is, you know, was really exciting and fun to think about. And then on the other side of the ball, Jalen Hurts is 24 years old. Like, you look at 24 to, you know, be in position here. One win away from winning a Super Bowl would be an Eagles legend for all time at this stage in his career.

And then Nick Siriani, I mean, second season as a head coach, like if the Eagles, win, Siriani will have as many Super Bowl wins as Andy Reid. And I'm not someone who just, you know, compares Super Bowl wins and nothing else. But that's weird. That's legitimately weird that the guy who most football fans had never heard of two years ago now could have as many Super Bowl wins as Jalen Hertz. And then kind of the under the radar guy is Eagles defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon. You know, sometimes these assistant coaches in a big spot who are able to come up with some kind of great game plan or some wrinkle. I mean, Gannon has been a little bit polarizing in Philadelphia, I would say, for two years.

Like, I was just thinking to the pressure, if you're him thinking, like, man, if I come up with something that just slows down Mahomes a little bit, not easy to do. Pretty much no one does that. But if I can come up with something and we win this game, all of a sudden, like, I'm viewed on a totally different level for the rest of my career, regardless of whatever I do. So I'm glad we're not in those high pressure spots, but it's weird to think so much comes down to one game. But that's kind of how it is, right?

I mean, you cover those, you know, the Broncos teams. And it just puts you on another level, whether you win this game or don't lose this game for kind of the rest of your career. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think it comes back to when we talk about all these margins and the stakeholders and all of those things. It just reinforces to me that the right two teams are here. It's the teams who are the best two teams throughout the regular season. You know, there were little dips here and there. But we're not having questions about like flukiness or a really like random playoff.

run. You know, even some of the stuff that we were talking about with the Bengals this time last year, because they were really a surprise team to get to this stage. Instead, we're getting to talk about these really massive issues because the right two teams are here. The two quarterbacks that should be here are here. You know, there was, I don't think, I think we could make the case for Josh Allen or Joe Burrow in this version, you know, the 2020 version of the Bengals. But, you know, we get to have these very serious legacy defining conversations because of who the matchup is. Yeah, no doubt about it. It will be fun. I mean, Chiefs didn't lose the game by more than four points all season. Eagles were 16 and 1 with Jail and Hertz.

So to your point, yes, the resumes are strong. They both deserve to be here. It should be a fun Super Bowl. All right. Let's take a little spin around the league. We got some fun headlines here. You know who we have to start with, Lindsay. You know where I'm going right away.

The one this morning, Aaron Rogers, to use darkness retreat to contemplate football future. This was revealed on the Pat McAfee show, as every bit of Aaron Rogers News is revealed nowadays or has been revealed. Nowadays, I don't know much about a darkness retreat, but apparently he's going to spend four days in isolation, in the darkness, and try to decide whether he wants to continue to play football in 20, 23. I don't even know what my question is to you here, honestly,

but just kind of, what do you think about that? Where do you think this ends up going? Like, all right, a month from now, whenever he decides what is going to be the final, final resolution here with what we see from Aaron Rogers going forward. Well, can I, can I read his exact quote of what he said? Because I feel like it needs like a little bit more. It says, so this is what he told Pat McAvey.

It's not like you bring a journal or you bring music or anything. There are no sounds. It's just sitting in isolation, meditation, dealing with your thoughts. It stimulates DMT, which I'm not sure what DMT means. I don't know what that is. So there can be some hallucinations in there. But it's just kind of sitting in silence, which most of us never do.

We rarely turn off our phones or put the blinds down to sleep in darkness. I'm really looking forward to it. He doesn't put his blinds down. I have a lot. I mean, I have a lot of questions that are going on about this. Also, he clearly doesn't have young children because, like, being able to just have some silence and darkness and not somebody crawling into your bed waking you up in the middle of the night. Sounds lovely. I don't know four out, four straight days, but this is about the time last year that he went on his like,

ayahuasca, is that how he pronounce it, retreat where he was also so hallucinating in some, I mean, can we get this guy some of their hobbies that don't involve hallucinations? Yeah, it's funny as you're going through this, I think we're both like, we don't really, we're not experts here. We don't know much about these things. We live different lives than Aaron Rogers. Listen, in general, I'm all four, do whatever makes you happy, gets you in a right space, right mental health, whatever you need to do. Yes, I'm not familiar with this. The four days in darkness, honestly, you just reading that gave me anxiety. That is not my idea of a good time to quote my dad first, you know, immigrant when people would bring up

camping. He said, we did not move to this country to voluntarily choose to sleep outside. That is not why we did that. So that always rings in my head. I think he would probably have a similar response to this. So listen, if it makes Aaron Rogers happy, if that's what he wants to do, that's fine. We are not, we are not experts in four days with just thoughts to myself in the dark. Like that, honestly, that feels like a punishment more than anything. But for Aaron Rogers, it is a, it is a retreat.

So he's going to go for it. From like a practical standpoint, he says it's four days. He has not specified which four days. And he has said that like when he comes out of this, he expects to have some clarity and make his decision about what he wants to do. So, you know, could it be next week? Could it be in early March? You know, he has kind of indicated that he's not going to drag this out,

that he wants to, you know, have discussions with the Packers and let them know where he stands sooner rather than later. What's your gut telling you about what's going to happen? I mean, there's been, you know, obviously a lot of dots connecting him potentially to the Jets. There are a couple other quarterback needy teams now. The Las Vegas Raiders, you know, Devante Adams has been, you know, tweeting some stuff about a potential reunion. And then, you know, obviously he's still under contract. So anything would have to be a trade. So there's obviously the pretty high likelihood that he could also stay in Green Bay. So all of this stuff is out here. Where do you ultimately think this is all going to end up? Yeah. So the details with this are

that any team can pretty much fit him under the cap. and Fitzgerald of over the cap who does an awesome job and it's just the go-to for all this off-season stuff has laid that out on his website. But at the same time, you still are paying him $59.5 million for one year of football. Now, you can spread that out over, again, you can spread that out over the cap so you can fit that in. But it's still a lot of money. Like, if you're an owner, sometimes we can flate cash and cap. Like, that's $59.5 million out of the owner's pocket for one year of Aaron Rogers. That's a lot of money for a guy who, who's going to be in his age 39 season.

And so now you add in the age, you add in the money, and you add in the draft capital you would have to give up to get Aaron Rogers, which it's hard to know what exactly that's going to be. I think Peter King a couple weeks ago said multiple first round picks. That sounds like a little heavy for me, but one first round pick and something else. You never know with quarterbacks. All it takes is one team. So, man, it feels just like it's been pointing to the Jets.

And if I'm a Jets fan, I'm kind of like I do. Can we explore other options? There are other quarterbacks out there. You don't need to give up all that for one year, by the way, of Aaron Rogers. I mean, this time next year, he could choose not to play football anymore. He could say, that didn't go great. I'm going to retire. And now you gave up all this draft capital.

So the trade could be a little complicated. You know, there could be conditions. He has to play in 2024 for it to be a, you know, pick X or something like that. So I think my gut is still telling me, Jets, just because they've sounded very desperate. all off season from ownership on down. Like, yeah, we're doing something. We're tired. We're Zach Wilson didn't work out.

We're not in position to be patient. They hired Nathaniel Hackett. So I think that's probably one on my list. I saw our old colleague, Mike Sando, of the athletic throughout the Titans. And I was like, I could see that as sort of a sleeper. You know, if Aaron Rogers is like, I don't need to be in New York or whatever. And he doesn't have a no trade clause to be clear. So he doesn't really get to decide, although he could always.

threaten to retire if they want to trade him to a place he doesn't want to go. But that's a little more under the radar. AFC South. I don't know if he knows Mike Rabel well, but, you know, a spot where he might not be asked to do everything. But at the same time, that's not a great supporting cast there for Aaron Rogers. So I think I would say Jets, maybe a mystery team comes in there. But if I had to kind of pick what I think it would be, I think eventually he gets traded to

the Jets. How about you? I think that's fair. I think I would place my highest odds if I was handicapping this on him staying in Green Bay. And this being for the second year, for the second year a row, just a lot of talk coming, coming out of, out of him and the Packer side. So I think that's what I, you know, ultimately, like, it's just going to be a whole lot of content creation and buzzy and headlines and stuff for a while. And then ultimately he'll just be back there. You know what's funny?

I mean, like, you could, you could make the case that that wouldn't be like the worst move for the Packers. Like, I was thinking about this late in the season. Like, their offense did get better as the season went on. I think they finished actually as a top 10 offense in DVOA, just if you're looking at the efficiency numbers. They can run the ball. Certainly, LaFleur has been a good play caller, a good coach. Christian Watson comes on. Like, you can make the case.

NFC is going to be wide open. I mean, NFC is going to be wide open next year. There's no clear favorite. it. There's no, you know, great quarterback who we think is just going to be in the conference championship game year in and you're out. Like, you can make the case, hey, add a wide receiver or something. And maybe you just get right. Right. Right. Right. I know. The same thing we've been saying for years. So we'll see. I get sort of, it sort of feels like the Packers might be the ones where like, all right, this has one and score. That are finally over it. Yeah. Yeah. They're like. And also, you know,

see what you have with, with Jordan love there. So we'll see what happens there. They could have made that decision last year without spending I know. We're just repeating conversations, right? Messing up their salary cap for years to come. But here we are. I know. He really, uh, he took him to the cleaner. In terms of that contract renegotiation. But hey, when your, his hallucinations worked apparently. Yes. Back to back MVP's. You have the leverage there. So Aaron Rogers, do what makes you happy. You're not hurting anybody. Lindsay and I don't completely understand

what's going on. But that's okay. It might not be. for us. So we will see what happens there. All right. Next headline, Lindsay, Derek Carr has been granted permission to visit with the New Orleans Saints. Do you want me to repeat my Derek Carr rant before you respond or do you want to go first here? No, go ahead. Well, I've been saying for months, extra point taken listeners will know, no team should trade for Derek Carr.

The Raiders have to release Derek Carr a week from now. Is it a week from now? Three days after the Super Bowl, they're going to have to release him. If they don't release him, they owe in $40 million in guaranteed money. They are not going to keep him on the roster at that point. When they don't want him to be their quarterback, it makes no sense. So if you are a team out there, whisper New Orleans Saints, just be patient. Relax.

You don't have to give up anything for the right to pay Derek Carr. $38 million per season. This is not your final piece. This is not the guy who's going to put you over the top and have you win multiple Super Bowls. Just relax. My offseason rule, do not fall in love. Do not fall in love with Derek Carr. Just chill, relax.

Turn your phones off for a week and see where you are a week from now. If you want to sign him after he gets released, that's one thing. That's fine. I don't know if it's smart, but that's fine if you want to do that. Do not give up anything for Derek Carr. So he's got a no trade clause. His only motivation, in my opinion, to agree to waive that no trade clause would be, if a team says, we're willing to pay you on your current contract.

And he doesn't think he can get that contract on the open market, which, by the way, I don't know if he could or not, but man, he would hit the market before any other quarterback. And so he would really be in a nice spot for these QB needy team. So we'll see what happens there. That is my Derek Carr rant. Sorry if you are a loyal ringer NFL listener and you listen to every show and you're like, she'll shut up. We've heard this four times in the last month.

I apologize, but I just feel like I need to keep saying it over and over again. Well, it's funny. I mean, this is like sometimes when you're scrolling, like your social media feed or TikTok, especially where people say like, this is a message for Mickey Loomis. If you are not Mickey Loomis, keep scrolling. I think we maybe need to attach that, Isaiah. Can you like attach that disclaimer to this podcast where this is a special message directly for Mickey Loomis to listen to Shield's message here?

But it is kind of interesting. You know, I guess maybe Mickey was sitting around watching the Pro Bowl skills, skill position, skills challenge last week, saw Derek Carr light it up in the accurate passing portion of that competition. I will be honest. I did not watch all of it because it was like five days of content. It was like the Pro Bowl could have been an email, probably. But I like some of it, but let's condense it to like one afternoon next year. We don't need to stretch it across multiple days. Yeah, I mean, why would he limit his options like that?

Because when he's cut, I don't even want to say if, but when he is cut in a week from now, assuming that the saints don't go wild here and trade for him, he's going to have a lot of options. There are a lot of quarterback needy teams out there. And it's worth reminding, too, if a player is cut in February, he can sign right away. He does not have to wait until the free agent period begins in March. That's, remember a couple of years ago, JJ Watt was cut, a salary-kept casualty from the Texans. And he chose the Cardinals in late February. He will have a leg up on the other quarterbacks who are going to be out there, the guys who are on expiring contracts, guys like Jimmy Garapolo, for example, can survey the market, can set the market, can let teams come out and woo him.

there will be nothing preventing him from visiting, I don't know, who else, the Washington commanders. I mean, the entire NFC South needs to take credit back to the commanders. Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of teams here. You're absolutely right about that. I mean, we could name 10 teams here. And that, yeah, that's the key point that you just made is that he's going to have like two, three weeks.

I forget when the start of the new league year is, but he's going to have three weeks where literally, you know, teams, yeah, can they, talk under the table to agents and find out what quarterbacks are looking for. Yes, but I think some teams are going to be motivated to say, let's not wait. We don't know what's going to happen. These agents could be playing us. They're going to have other options. Let's be a little bit aggressive here and make a move for Derek Carr.

So, yeah, I don't know what that final salary number will look like. Whenever you're looking at quarterbacks, it'd be who's us to kind of bump up what we think it's actually going to be. But yeah, I'm with you. And not that, you know, a team. would have to trade like multiple first round picks for Derek Carr, but also like, don't you want that the team you're going to to have their draft capital and be able to help you and put together an offensive line and weapons around you? So we'll see what happens there. We know that

the New Orleans Saints kind of operate on their own level. I don't know how to say this nicely. They're, they're always looking at how can we compete this next year. And so I can understand why they'd be interested in Carr and think, hey, we can win the NFC South with Derek Carr and they can. but just chill, turn the phone off for a week, and then see what happens when he's released. Well, not to scoop content that you have coming later at the ringer, you know, later this spring, but, you know, you, for years, you study the free agent market, you go through all of the guys who are going to be available and could be on the move. When you look at this upcoming quarterback class, Tom Brady now is theoretically out of it.

He said he is retired. where do you put Derek Carr in the quarterback, like, hierarchy of guys who are attainable this offseason? Well, see, this Eagle Super Bowl run. Yeah, has me behind. Lindsay, I shouldn't be telling you this on my free agency work this year. We'll get to it. Eventually, I was not expecting to still be doing daily weeks.

It's fine. Yeah. Daily, Philly special pods into mid-February. I did not think that was going to happen. I thought I'd be studying the free agency here. Now, do you count like a, are you counting like a Lamar Jackson who we expect to not be available. Yes. Yeah, well, that's the tricky thing about free, the free, those, all those free agency lists, as you well know, is that the list right now as we sit here in early

February is all guys who are on expiring contracts. The franchise tags are going to come down by what early, the first week of March. And a lot of those guys are going to get pulled off of the board. But, yeah, I mean, I think if like, if the Ravens weren't just decided not to tag Lamar Jackson, and all of a sudden he was an unrestricted free agent, that shakes things up a lot. I just, It's hard to imagine that he actually gets. Yeah, that's not happening. He actually gets there. But, you know, if you're putting, you're petting him against Jimmy Garoppolo or, like,

who else? Who else is it kind of even in that mix? Yeah, there's. So there's, now, like you said, so Gino Smith would be a guy. But again, we think that that Seattle's not going to let him go. Right. The Ravens are not letting Lamar Jackson go for nothing. I mean, they could, even if they thought they were done with him, that you would

see a tag and trade, which would be, uh, pretty exciting for a lot of draft picks and see what the market's going to be. I would like Carr, I would take Carropolo. Daniel Jones is another guy. Honestly, I feel like a lot of these guys are in that same sort of tier where it's going to depend on what the supporting cast is, what the situation is, what the coaching is, Carr, Daniel Jones, Garapolo. I mean, Carr has been pretty durable.

So I would give him the edge there over Garapolo. Daniel Jones, it kind of depends what you're going to. looking for. He gives you that at a little bit, the running element to it. He's younger. So maybe you convince yourself there's some upside there. So I think Derek Carr's probably around like the without looking at Stephen Ruiz's quarterback rankings or doing my own. I would probably say he's around like the 12th best quarterback. Like I don't think a team would be nuts to say let let, you know, Derek Carr's released. We have a good supporting cast like a team like the Carolina Panthers. I think they should trade up and get the first overall pick and not have to deal with this.

But if they say we can't do that, we've done the research and they say, you know what, our offensive line is competent. We've got some weapons. The division's wide open. Let's have Derek Carr to keep us afloat for a year or two while we figure out a longer term solution. That to me would not be crazy. So I think he's probably in that middle tier of quarterbacks. And, you know, among the guys who will actually be available, they'll probably be near the top.

Yeah. All right. Derek Carr, we'll see what happens. New Orleans. Chill out. go on vacation, go somewhere where your phones don't work, go on a darkness retreat. They should go on a darkness retreat, Lindsay. They need to join Aaron Rogers on the Mickey Loomis.

Go hang out with them. Until February 14th, somebody take Mickey Loomis's phone away. Absolutely. That's what they should do. All right. Last headline I got. And then we will get to a question for the mailbag. This is your hometown team here.

It's getting interesting. They continue to be in the headlines. Sean Payton on. Russell Wilson having his own team in the building, quote, that's foreign to me. Oh, baby, that was juicy. I like watching that quote because, Lindsay, I can give some background here, my time covering Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. I remember I wrote about this. I talked to the people around him, 2016.

I want to say he had a knee injury. And I'm doing the work on Russell Wilson. And my second year on the beat there, he has this massive team around it. I don't know if massive is the right word, but this very close team. It's relatively massive because most players have zero or one maybe. Yeah, a couple people. Right. So he's got, you know, agency, social team, production team.

But then as it pertains to this, personal QBs coach, personal physical therapist, personal trainer. I mean, you name it, he's got all those things. And I remember, you know, doing this story that these people were allowed inside the Seahawks facility to kind of work him out in between his sort of team. mandated stuff, you know, the downtime that players have throughout the course of the day, whether they're eating, whether they're hanging out in the locker room, playing ping pong or whatever. He had his own people who were not employed by the Seahawks in the building kind of, you know, and it was spun to me as, oh, yeah, everybody's working together, but we all know, like, teams want their people doing the work. But when you have a quarterback, you're paying

a lot of money to, and you have relationships, and you're trying to appease agents and all those things, you allow for some of that stuff. So that's the background here, that that, that Russell Wilson has had all those people, maybe granted access. Again, this is something going back to Tom Brady and New England, right, the TB 12 stuff. That was kind of a tipping point there where Belichick said, all right, enough's enough. Those guys are not allowed in the building.

So it's not just Russell Wilson, but I do think it's sort of unique the level to which he's gotten. So Sean Payton says that's foreign to him. Jim Trotter, a great NFL reporter for NFL.com tweeted out that he thought that was interesting because he had information that, coaching candidates were specifically asked about this issue during the interview process. So Sean Payton's no dummy. It's not foreign to him.

He knew what he was getting into. That's one aspect of this. And then the other one, Lindsay, I don't even know if you saw this. Did you see the Terry Bradshaw video? No. Okay. So Terry Bradshaw was interviewed. I want to say 92.5 in Denver.

I try to get the attribution right here. And, you know, they're asking. Yeah, my buddy said Alton's. Yeah, big, big fans. Your friends at. Friends at altitude. They were interviewing Terry Bradshaw and asking him about kind of his intel with Sean Peyton.

And, you know, Bradshaw is not in mode where he needs to be sort of conservative with his thoughts. He can kind of let it rip. And so he tells the story about, yeah, you know, I was drinking beers with Sean Payton. I think his exact quote was, he drank my whiskey, I believe was part of his quote, talking about the coaching process. And they're going team by team.

And Bradshaw says, yeah, he didn't want to go to Airman. Arizona. He didn't want to coach Kyler Murray. He didn't want to go to Carolina. You don't want to be in the NFC South. And so the question was posed. So he wanted to work with Russ. And Bradshaw kind of pauses looking like, should I say this or not? And he goes, I don't think so. And he starts laughing and says he had no choice, basically intimating that he went there sort of, you know, in spite of Russell Wilson knowing that if it doesn't work out, he'll have kind of a longer leash there. And he's the coach of the Broncos, not just the coach of Russell. Wilson. So that was interesting. That was funny. A lot of things happening in Denver, which all of a sudden, you know, seems like it's going, I shouldn't say all of a sudden they were interesting last year in a bad way. But it seems like this relationship is going to be fascinating to watch how it plays out, Sean Payton and Russell Wilson. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be, you know, my, obviously because I live there, their facility is right down the road from my house. So, you know, it's going to be the thing, the storyline that I'm probably watching most closely after Aaron Rogers emerging from his darkness retreat. I'm very curious just about how this dynamic is going to work. And the power dynamic in Denver last year was way off, right? Where, you know, it was a new head coach, Nathaniel Hackett, obviously a new quarterback. But I think it was pretty clear, like, how that hierarchy worked.

And, you know, while, like, Hackett was in theory in charge of that offense, you know, it was Russell, you know, Russell had tremendous leverage within that building, within the locker room to do. do kind of a lot of things of how he wanted it to go. You know, Hackett really had this reputation of being like, you know, a happy guy who gets along with everybody. And that's not, that's not Sean Payton, right? I mean, I think there were some quotes out there that he, that he has said this week, that it's been a myth that he's this, like, tyrant kind of around the building. It said, Peyton on Monday addressed the myth he believed was created during the hiring cycle

that he is, quote, some kind of tyrant who wanted to come into a new organization immediately take control of every aspect. In some ways, he needs to do that. He needs to come in and take control of every aspect. I mean, hopefully he has maybe softened in some ways from the earlier parts of his Saints tenure where he was very difficult to work with and work for. I know the media had a really difficult time covering him, very contentious relationships throughout that building and that organization. I think a lot of that kind of changed toward the end of his time, not just with the media,

but just in general, I think he softened a little bit. So hopefully some of those personal skills have improved. But he needs to be able to come in and set expectations for, not just for Russell Wilson, but for everybody about,

this is how we're going to do things around here. And there's not going to be special scenarios for individual players. There's not going to be, you know, I did hear Melvin Gordon. So Melvin Gordon is playing in the Super Bowl. I'm not sure if you do that. It's stunning information.

Melvin Gordon after the year he had with the Broncos. He's on the Chiefs roster, which is bonkers. I mean, he's not playing. I don't know if he's actually going to play in the Super Bowl. Right. He'll get a Super Bowl jersey. But he talked a lot on Monday night about Russell never had his own parking space. And he don't really have his own room.

He was just always there. So it was kind of his room and all that was in. It was film and all this stuff. But like, Sean Peyton has the credentials to come in here and say, this is how things are going to be. And Russell Wilson kind of has to listen to him, right? Like, he didn't have to listen to Nathaniel Hackett about those sorts of things. But he has to now with Sean Peyton. And I said this on the podcast of Nora last week, our breaking news podcast, when Sean Payton was initially hired.

You know this very much about Russell Wilson. or he always likes to like cosplay as other quarterbacks kind of to steal a line from our friend Danny Highfits. And he always says like, I want to be like Drew Breeze and just like envisions himself playing like Drew Breeze even though he never once

has played a game like Drew Breeze in his life. The only way that they're similar is that they're both under six feet tall or right at or under six feet tall. And Sean Payton can come in and say like let's stop pretending to be this guy. Right. Like Drew Breeze is a Hall of Fame quarterback. The type of

career that you aspire to have in terms of the statistics, the respect, the kind of universal appeal, I think that Drew Breeze had maybe until he tried his hand at broadcasting. And I think Sean can be realistic with Russell Wilson about like what he needs to do to get there and how he needs to play and how he needs to manage his body in the later stages of his career and what they can do to be successful. And, you know, Drew Breeze was very good at being kind of like one of the guys and being really well liked in his locker room, really well respected in his locker room, getting along with the defensive players, the relationship he had with guys like Cam Jordan and to Mario Davis. And those are areas where Russell Wilson has really struggled.

And, you know, I think offensively it's going to be really good for Russell Wilson to have an experienced play caller, experienced play designer, a guy who is unlike what Mike McCarthy did his year out of football. I think Sean Payton probably did spend a lot of time the last year watching football and studying football and finding new ways to become a better, you know, a better and even more innovative offensive coach than he was previously, just because he's going to be starting over with kind of different quarterbacks that he's never played with before. So I just think it's going to be really good for him.

But I think it's also going to be good for like all that other stuff you talk about, like, setting, you know, putting his foot down about like entourages and special treatment and all of this kind of stuff that just didn't happen last year in Denver. Yeah, I mean, to me, Sean Payton is no dummy. Bill Parcells, you know, he is, I know if mentor is the right word, but certainly close with Bill Parcells, who back in the day sending messages through the media was a big part of what he did. And whether Sean Payton intended to do that or not, I'm sure he knew he was going to get this question at some point, specifically, again, as Jim Trotter pointed out, if he's being asked about this during the interview process.

And this dynamic is just completely different, as you allude. to then the hack I mean the hack at one was all right come in and kind of you know you are not like the main player in this in this drama it is Russell Wilson is the star and you are here to help him and he is the guy of what they traded for he's the guy they paid after last year that's changed like this is Sean Payton's show now and Russell Wilson does not have the hand in the relationship he is not calling the shots he is you know he's getting the paychecks great you know good good for him. Nice job on the business side. Yeah, it's like, you know who else is getting the paychecks? Sean Payton. Yes. Yep. And he's, you know, there's a chance. I would say the percentages of who

lasts longer, you would say it would be Sean Payton over Russell Wilson in Denver. That was never going to be the case with Nathaniel Hackett and Russell Wilson. So it's totally different. Honestly, if Russell Wilson is smart about this, if he has the people around him telling him the right things, if he cares about this last phase of his career, this could be the best thing. that could have happened to him. I mean, who could you ask for at 34 years old coming off a horrible season to kind of get you back on track to be the player you were for a long time. And we forget it now. Russell Wilson was really freaking good for 10 years. Like now there's this revisionist history that, oh, no, he was never that guy. And they come, no, he was really good.

He led efficient offenses. He played really well. Sean Payton can be the guy to get you back on track, win some games, and make the most out of your career. So if there's that, buy-in, like that possibility exists, but kind of what you said, Russell Wilson has sort of been on his own schedule, on his own playing about how he wants to do things, the people around him, all those things for a long time. I mean, it was part of the reason why he wanted to be traded from Seattle because he felt like there was more for him elsewhere and then he goes elsewhere and it's a disaster. So we will see what happens there. But man, that is like talk about a top five most intriguing team in the NFL going in to 2023.

Because you could honestly tell me anything happens. You could tell me Peyton gets him back on track and Russell Wilson has a fantastic season and the Broncos are in the playoffs. You could tell me by week six, there's, you know, on those Sunday morning shows. So there's some friction between Sean Payton and Russell Wilson. Sean Payton considering quarterback X and benching Russell Wilson. I think all those things are absolutely in play. so we will see how it plays out.

All right, take a quick break here and come back with a question from the mailback. Football fans, Fanduil has the perfect way for everyone to get in on the Super Bowl 57 action with a no sweat, same game parlay. That means everyone gets bonus bets back if your Super Bowl SGP doesn't hit. It doesn't matter if you're new to FanDuel or already have an account. Same game parley lets you combine all your favorite bets for a chance at a bigger payday. start building your own or just bet a popular SGP already made for you in America's number one sports book. What do I like in this game? I like the overs on Kenny Gainwell receiving yards

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slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. 1-800 next step, or text next step to 533442 in Arizona, 1-88-78-98-98-9-7-777. or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-8009 with it in Indiana,

1-800-5-22-4-7-00. Or visit KS gambling, Help.com in Kansas, 1877770. Stop in Louisiana. Visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland 18778-8-8-N-Y or text Hope NY-467-369 in New York, 1-800-2-2-470-70 in Wyoming, or visit www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. On the scramble, all right, full disclosure here, Lindsay. I forgot to ask for mailback questions. It's been a busy week at the Super Bowl. But there was one I saw, and I'm going to make it up.

Maybe we'll say this from your daughter. Lena, she missed you. She wanted to get in touch with you. Hear you on the podcast. So she sent in a mailbag question. And she asks, do you think we are going to see some kind of trick play in the Super Bowl? What do you think? I know Roger Sherman has written about this for the Ringer.

What are your thoughts? Do we see a trick play by either team in the Super Bowl? I think that the likelihood of that is very high, just given Andy Reid's history. So I think you're the gambling. You're the gambling guy here. There's got to be some sort of, there's got to be some odds for this. Props. Actually, Austin Gale is our kind of props guy this week.

Stay tuned to the ringer.com for more on that later this week. I'll have to, I'll slack Austin and see if you've seen props for likelihoods on trick plays. But given Andy Reid's history, not just to run trick. plays in general, but to run trick plays in high leverage situations, I think it's pretty high that we'll see one. And obviously the most recent, actually, maybe not the most recent, but because the Reed and the chiefs ran a trick play in their Super Bowl win three years ago.

But as I was to say that the Eagles have run one of the most famous trick plays in Super Bowl history. So, you know, yes, it's new staff there. But except for Jeff Stoutland, maybe Jeff Stoutland will be the three. line for another Philly special 2.0. But I think the likelihood is fairly high because of how creative both of these offensive staffs are and how talented their offensive rosters are. These are two teams that if they run a trick play, they're not doing it because they need some sort of gimmick. They're doing it because they have kind of an intellectual edge and create,

like kind of a creative fire to do something new and interesting. And also, the coaches of the balls to do it. That's probably kind of a cross way to say it, right? But like they're not scared. Neither of these coaches are scared to do something interesting in a big moment. Yeah, I think if I'm leaning towards, I think the props, like one of the props is definitely like more than two players will attempt to pass.

So that would obviously, and you know, that could be anything. That could be a quarterback injury. It could be a trick play. It could be a fake punt, whatever. I feel like the chiefs are more likely just because Andy Reeves volume of plays in the Red Zone specifically. I mean, he is the most innovative coach in the Red Zone. I think this is a game where both teams are going to be able to move the football and converting on those Red Zone trips is going to be huge. Like, if you have to kick a field goal, you might feel like

you're closer to losing the game. The Eagles had the Philly Special. You're right. Last time they were in the Super Bowl. And I do feel like Nick Siriani, like during his press conference, had this thing about, you know, making it a normal week. And he's like, my family's coming in, but it's Tuesday. I don't see my family on Tuesday. It's Wednesday. I don't see my, I'm like kind of worried about all the things he's given two weeks to prepare for this game. Like, it was sort of just going above and beyond. But I kind of feel like what you said, like, you know, Jeff Stoutland's probably like, no trick plays. Let's just run duo or inside zone over and over again and gash these guys. Because I do think they have an advantage, you know, up front against that cheese defensive line.

So they don't need to overthink things. It's tough. I mean, in such a big spot. Like you said, these have been the top two offenses in the NFL all season long. Do you overthink it? Do you try something at the same time? The Chiefs especially, I mean, they do stuff just to make stuff fun for the players. Travis Kelsey trying that lateral in the AFC championship game, whether that's coached or not coach. So I think my prediction would be we see something from the Chiefs. And I would say we see something from the Chiefs in the Red Zone specifically to do something.

So we'll see if that's the case. And definitely shout out to Roger Sherman's story. Go and read Roger's story about Andy Reid's history of trick plays because there was some really fun stuff that I'd even forgotten about. I mean, even dating back to his Eagles days. Like remember when he had Riley Cooper lay down in the end zone to try to hide him on a kickoff return? I mean, the stuff that goes on in Andy Reid's brain is just wild. So I'm excited to see what sort of weird thing he might concoct for this game. Yes, absolutely.

Go read that. Read all of the ringer.com coverage leading up to the Super Bowl. All right. That will wrap it up for the scramble. Thank you to Lindsay Jones for joining me. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Pinch producing for us early on Mountain Standard Time, which still screws me up. Early on Mountain Standard Time, appreciate him doing that. The guys will be back for the big preview show next on your feed.

They will have all the Xs and O's, all the scheme stuff for the Super Bowl matchup. So stay tuned. for that and thank you for listening to we scramble on the ringer NFL TV.