The Ringer NFL Show - Takeaways From the NFL Owners Meetings, Jalen Hurts Friction, and Browns Dysfunction!

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

The Ringer’s own Lindsay Jones joins the show to share the biggest news from the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix earlier this week. They then discuss the rumblings within the Eagles and Browns camps that are currently making headlines in NFL media circles.(0:46) Takeaways from the NFL owners meetings!(2:20) Referee updates(21:26) Team USA flag football(29:27) The inevitable 18-game season(39:31) The international slate(42:15) Does Jalen Hurts have friction with the Eagles?(47:58) More Cleveland Browns dysfunctionThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Lindsay JonesProducer: Chris SuttonVideo Editor: Stefano SanchezProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Sheel Capadia League meetings in Phoenix this week. What were the big topics? NFL officiating, replays, other stuff happening there. Lindsay Jones from the Ringer was there covering it all. She's going to join us today. So we'll hit on the big topics and then get to some team-specific stuff,

this Jalen Hurd story from ESPN and also what's going on with the Cleveland Browns. All right, let's take a break. We come back with Lindsay. All right. we are back here on the Ringer NFL show with Lindsay Jones. She's back from the owner's meetings where she was working. I don't think she was with the coaches day drinking, you know, by the pool all day. Lindsay, but correct me if I'm wrong there.

Yeah, I was going to say, Jay Glazer had a little bit of a different owner's meetings experience than I did. It is kind of an interesting event because it's like there's a lot of like real like meaty work that gets done. But there is a lot of like socializing time. So I always enjoy kind of like watching the dynamics among the coaches. is like who's friends with who, who sit next to who, who is like the guy that everybody slacks to. But no, I was not day drinking with the head coaches. That would have been fun, probably.

But no, I was, I was following Roger Goodell around and stuff. Yeah. I remember, you know, when I have covered them in the past, it's also who's miserable. Like some of these coaches and GMs, it's like, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to them that they have to go to like a five-star resort in whatever, Arizona, Florida, wherever it is and spend time with their families. They just want to get back to the grind, waking up at 3 a.m.

being in their office with whatever their Starbucks order is and grinding some film on some of these draft prospects. So that was always funny to me as well. But we're going to get to all of the big picture topics from the league meetings. Lindsay's going to fill us in. Some of them, I'm like, you know what? I don't know anything about this.

So she's going to give me like an idiots guide on some of these things. Others I have actual thoughts on. And then we'll get to some of the team specific stuff that came out of the league meetings there. So, Lindsay, I think the biggest, I don't know if it's, I even hesitate to say if it's the biggest story right now. It feels like the biggest story.

I can't figure out how much is leverage, how much is negotiating through the media. But there is this referee situation right now where their contract's going to be up at the end of May and the NFL is adamant that they are getting like replacement officials ready here. And this could end up being obviously a. massive story if an agreement doesn't get done by the time we get to week one. It also could end up being a nothing burger if an agreement does get done. What did you learn? Where are we? How seriously should we take the possibility of replacement refs in the NFL in 2026? I'm looking at it right now is this

like very high stakes game of chicken that the NFL and the referees are engaged in. And we're very much in the like messy negotiate through the media phase of all of this in that, um, negotiations have broken down. They had a session last week that broke off fairly quickly. Both sides at this point feel pretty entrenched in what their objectives are and what they're going after and are, you know, using reporters to kind of snipe back and forth at each other. The league is very, very good at this. And it's one of the reasons that they win a lot of negotiations, whether it's with the players

or, you know, ultimately maybe we'll see here with the referees. So, yeah, there's, you know, it's very messy right now. now. They have until May 31st. That's when the CBA expires and if they don't have a new deal by the end of May, then they're officially, they would be in a lockout situation. The league is preparing for that earlier now than I believe they did in 2012. They are preparing to hire replacement refs at this point. They're in that process of identifying and figuring out the logistics of how you get in Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 referees in and, working with them here in the spring to potentially get them ready to be on the field in August,

which is pretty significant. I mean, look, 2012, kind of a long time ago, not for you and me, you and I are old people who were covering the end of L in 2012. We very clearly remember how bad that was. It was a really bad situation for everybody. The product was terrible. Obviously, there was a really high profile incident on Monday Night Football that shifted the outcome of a game between two very high profile teams when the Seahawks and the Packers and we all remember Aaron Rogers is like what the hell is going on

at the end of that game with the fail Mary and ultimately that, you know, that was it that after that they got a new agreement done. The league right now, I think they're, you know, so look, basically the issues right now, the negotiating point, the sticking points in negotiations are to make this really simple.

the referees want a lot more money and a lot of like seniority based stuff. The NFL wants more time with the officials and more accountability measures and more training to go on. They've said and like they, you know, Roger Goodell and his team at the league meetings, they're like, we're willing to pay for this and the owners are willing to pay for performance, but they want to have some more, honestly, just like more time with the officials to do a lot more training and then they want to have the power to demote essentially like underperforming officials and more accountability measures in place. And it's something that a lot of the owners feel very,

very strongly about. I think that's a winning position publicly, right? Like, yeah, I think you take that to fans in general and you say like we want better officiating and we want our officials to be doing a better job and have more training and be more accountable for the calls that they make. And that's like a pretty easy winning message. But I also think like if you're the referees, like you want to be paid for your time and respected and, you know, when you have seniority, that, you know, that also is something that you should be rewarded with. So hopefully we'll end up somewhere in the middle. But when I say they're in kind of this high stakes game of chicken right now, the stakes are so high if they get this wrong, right? Like they talk about the integrity of the game as most

important thing and it's all about sports betting and the individual people that can swing outcomes and if we're already, you know, fans I like to hop online or media people, you know, everybody hops online is our like, the game is rigged and, you know, the chief, they're in the favor of the chiefs and two years ago and all this stuff. But now of a sudden you're going to have replacement officials on the field. The stakes if they get this wrong, I just think are massive for the credibility of this game and this league and the financial implications and all the betting implications. So we're not at a crisis point right now, but it is building that way. Yeah, on one hand, my initial impression here, you know, reading about this story, hearing about

the story was that just like, this is what the NFL does. They're just going to put the screws to anybody there in negotiations with. You mentioned it. And it's so true. Players, networks, by the way, fans, officials. It's just like they're in this place that is almost unprecedented. for professional sports where it's just like the league is growing at such a rapid pace and it feels like nothing can take them down and there's so much money and every time there's this much money, there's a way to get more money. And every time there's more money, there's a way to get even more money. And it's just like they're not in a position where they're going to let anyone win a negotiation or where they're going to bend or they're going to give in or do anything like that.

And at first I was like, you know, this is another case of the NFL. And then I thought about it some more and reading about it some more. The average NFL official, Lindsay, have you? Have you read this? Are you aware of what the average NFL official makes? Because I was kind of surprised by this. This according to ESPN.com, the average NFL official makes $385,000 per year. And the NFL has offered, again, according to this reporting, a deal with annual races of 6.45%. I was like, man, that I would love a 6.45% race. Yeah. Sounds great. That doesn't seem to me like the refs are doing that bed. Now, the refs are saying, well, we make less than the NBA and MLB.

I don't know the details in terms of how many games those, you know, those officials. It's like not an apples to apples math problem. Yeah. Right? And they're not full-time officials. That's like that's your salary for your like part-time side hustle. Yeah. Nor do they need to be.

I used to, you know, this isn't like the 60s where like football players had to go have a job in the off-season because the NFL wasn't pay. them enough. Like, I think you could probably live pretty comfortably on $385,000 per year there. And then the other things you mentioned and how much of this is just the NFL getting this out there to win the PR battle. But like the stuff that the NFL seemingly is pushing for, which is that like, hey, we're going to look at which officials are doing the best job. And those guys are, you know, those officials, men or women are going to get the jobs for the biggest games in the playoffs and the championship games and the Super Bowl versus seniority.

I'm like, great. The only thing in the NFL where meritocracy is actually a thing, other than playing, that sounds great to me. So, you know, I came across hating to ever side with the NFL on matters like this. And I'm sure that the, um, the rest association will get their side out. And maybe I will change my mind. But, but they better get their like details out. Because if it's just that they feel like they're not getting paid enough or that they don't

want those measures, I'm like, I'm not that sympathetic to your argument. I'm actually more, you know, I actually more, you know, I actually, to align more with the NFL's argument here. Well, and I think, you know, we're kind of at the point right now. And this is kind of the rest of like the second part of like the news and actual like meet of this meeting, you know, the NFL annual meeting owners meetings where they make rule changes and stuff. The officials are basically counting on like, you don't want to repeat a 2012, 2012.

Remember how awful. Remember how embarrassing that was for you. And you need to negotiate with us and give us what we want so that doesn't happen. The league, meanwhile, is saying it's not 2012. And we're putting all of these rules into place to make sure that if we have replacement on the replacement refs on the field, that we're going to be able, we're not going to have those problems. We're not going to have a disaster at the end of Monday night football because we now have

official rules on the books and the technology to fix mistakes. So what I think the really like most important like rule change that is going to go beyond the referee negotiations and potential lockout. is the expansion of replay. It's not a super sexy thing, but it is something that is going to be impacting a lot of games come fall. So the big difference right now is

referees from New York, like in their office on Park Avenue, they're going to be able to eject players. They're going to be able to now add a penalty, which that has never been the case before. The command center has never been able to add a flag onto the field. And this is not going to be for, in general this rule is for,

remember when D.K. Metcalfe got into a scuffle with the fan in Detroit? There was like the pushing the shoving and like you couldn't do anything about it because like there wasn't a penalty. It didn't happen in the course of the actual game. Now if that happens in 2026, the guys in New York will be able to say, hey, flagrant foul going on on the sideline, a non-football act, D.K. Matcalfe ejected and 15-yard penalty. for the Pittsburgh Steelers. That's new. That's notable.

The second rule is they have now, in case of a lockout, in case there are replacement reps on the field, the guys in New York and the replay assist officials who are in each stadium are going to be able to call fouls for things like face masks, illegal contact, and also like some personal foul type of situation. So really this is the first step towards centralized officiating.

with a bigger, heavier hand from the command center in New York. So that's kind of the fallout from all of this. And one of the questions that I asked Rich McKay and the competition committee on Tuesday was, if this is, it's written as a one-year thing, right? That if there's replacement officials that the guys in New York can throw a flag from New York for illegal contact,

how do you put that like toothpaste back in the tube? I think once we're in this situation, where New York has the ability to have their fingers in officiating a lot more and actually affecting and changing calls on the field, I don't really know how they go back to that. And honestly, I don't think they want to go back from that. I think that is ultimately the goal here. Yeah, this is pretty interesting. And just to clarify for people who are new to this, like I am in wrapping my head around it, what Lindsay's saying there is, the one rule is in place regardless of who's officiating games. And that's that replay officials in New York,

they're going to have the authority to disqualify a player and direct that penalty be enforced, even if the officials on the field didn't see it. But that's where the serious flagrant or non-flagrant football acts like Lindsay was explaining there. So that's happening regardless. That's happening in 2026, regardless of who the refs are. But the other thing that the NFL is trying to push is that this isn't going to be like the replacement refs of 2012. They're saying, we didn't get those refs ready until I forget it was July or August,

where we realized, hey, we're going to need these replacement rests. it was too late. Now they're saying May 1st, if we don't have a deal, we're starting to prepare these replacement rafts from college, bringing them up, and they're going to have more time, and they're going to be ready to officiate these games. In addition to that, we're going to have this centralized, you know, officiating hub in New York City that will be properly staffed, where those people in that office, again, what a terrible way to watch a game, Lindsay, honestly, like just, you know, I love New York for being in New York's great, but being, you know, First of all, you're in New York.

So this is the last thing I would want to be doing if I was in New York. And then it's like if you're watching a football game, this is the last way I would want to watch a football game. But these are officials watching a football game in the office. And if they see something that is, quote, clear and obvious, it could be roughing the passer. It could be intentional grounding. It could be something that would lead to a disqualification. If they see something like that, it could be a face mask, horse collar tackle, all these things.

If they see these things and they say, oh, no flag was. thrown and there should have been a flag thrown. They can communicate to those officials in real time and try to get a flag thrown. Illegal contact, by the way, was another one I saw where I'm like, what are we doing? You can call illegal contact on every play. Yeah. So the reason the legal contact is on there is because that is not a rule in college football. And so it's like a big difference from the college game to the NFL game. And so they want to have like the NFL's officiating able to do that and be able to correct it. So what Rich McKay said was that he didn't want,

or they don't want the college officials to either be maybe overgoing, you know, over calling it or the other, the reverse of it being afraid to call it because they're not used to or unsure exactly what that means. But that is one of the most commonly called penalties. So that one has a potential to impact a lot of games, I think. I say get rid of it for 2026, no legal contact. Just no legal contact.

Do what you want, you know, holding is a penalty, pass interference is a penalty. But if we want to go to hell out of all those receivers. Yeah, let's listen. You were seeing with baseball, you can add rule changes. And it's really exciting. It really adds to the fan experience. Why don't we experiment with some of that stuff a little bit in football?

The other one I saw Lindsay was pass interference if there is, quote, and I love how complicated the freaking NFL rules just have to be. And I understand to a degree, but also I'm like, sometimes I used to sit in those meetings and be like, what am I doing with my life? Like why this is how I'm spending my day here. Like the inadvertent tangling of feet when both players were playing the ball or neither player was playing the ball. So it's one of those past interference calls where the feet just get tangled, the wide receiver goes down, everyone goes crazy. But then you see the replay and you're like, oh, that's inadvertent.

They can also help with that. So this would be, again, this is only the things we just mentioned there, those are only if we have the replacement refs actually refing games. in 2026, but man, that would be very, very interesting. But I'll say my takeaway from talking to folks and being at those meetings is, yes, it is on the books right now for one year. I think there is appetite for that to become permanent. It's like the old Tuesday night game. They're just experimenting.

Yes. So my like conspiracy theory brain is that the NFL wouldn't be all that unhappy if they do this during the preseason. if they get into the preseason and they're doing preseason games with replacement refs and they're getting to have the crew in New York and the replay assists that are in the stadiums

having their hands in this. Because once you do it, once you start doing this, I don't know how you pull it back. So I don't think they would hate if this ultimately becomes permanent with the full roster of NFL officials. That's my like conspiracy theory

and maybe not even that much of a conspiracy theory at this point. That's where my brain is going is that they want to have a much more expanded centralized officiating system, and this is their way to tiptoe into it. I'll go even further. You know, like, yes, it was embarrassing for the NFL

with the replacement refs. But let's say they go into the season with the replacement refs and this system and there's a controversial call in week one and it swings the game. And that's not the end of the world for Roger. That's not the end of the world, you know? The checks are still coming in.

Yeah. No one's distracting. no one's talking about CTE, no one's talking about how black coaches can't get hired. I mean, there's all these issues that are, you know, just, oh, no, they're talking about a missed call. Oh, no. This, you know, it actually, if it's a whole season, all right, that's one thing. But if it's a week or two where it's like, all right, September, maybe the games don't necessarily matter as much. And some of that happens, I don't think Rogers losing any sleep over that.

So I'll go even further. It's like the tush push stuff from last year. He was loving that. Just distract everybody from the real. problems with the NFL. Yeah. Do you know what I didn't hear for three days at the Biltmore? The words tush-push. It was just a complete non-edity where like people would not shut the hell up about it this time last year. So nobody's talking about it. It changes year to year. So it's interesting. It is an interesting story. Obviously if you are a fan, it's going to affect

your viewing experience. I'm interested in the centralized stuff. I don't know how it would go. I'm sure there would be bumps in the road. I'm sure there would be controversies. Now, in the end, could it actually lead them to the right call more often than happens now? Maybe. Are there big stoppages in the game? I mean, that's the other thing, like the NBA, because the NBA is a disaster for that. MLB, again, not to just rave about, but this challenge thing is awesome.

It's six seconds, you know, whether it was a ball or strike. Where's the NBA? Yeah, they're explaining these calls for like 15 minutes. So I don't know, that is the other concern, Lindsay. Does it slow down the game and do you have these big breaks? And it's easy to imagine how it works at, say, like, the AFC championship game. But it's one standalone game or it's Monday night football and it's one game. I'm having a little bit of a harder time wrapping my head around.

What does it look like at 1 p.m. on Sunday afternoon when there's nine games going on at the same time? And you're trying to monitor, like, illegal contact and face masks. And, you know, you have all the different games and how many people do you need to do that? and who's on which game and, you know, is there a lag time there and kind of what the logistics of that are. But ultimately, everybody just wants to, like, get this right, right? And have consistent officiating from game to game from crew to crew and getting the calls right.

It's just a matter of how do they get there. And are they going to get there with replacement refs? I don't know. Yeah, we will say. So definitely, I think the deadlines to follow are NFL is trying to impose maybe this artificial deadline of, hey, May 1st, If nothing's done, we're bringing in the replacement reps. The actual contract is finished at the end of May.

So that would be the other one to keep an eye on. We'll continue to be an offseason story here in the NFL. All right, let's take a break. We're coming back. We have a story that Lindsay says is one of the storylines from the owner's meetings that I have just been oblivious to. Like, I've just, anytime it comes across my timeline or TV, I turn it off and I know nothing about.

So she's going to provide a little, she doesn't know this yet, but I'm going to ask her to provide a little idiot's guide to one of these stories. All right, we're back here on the Ringer NFL show. All right, Lindsay, the thing I'm talking about here is flag football. And I know there's a lot of money in flag football. This could be the next pickleball, whatever, you know, it's going to be very profitable for some people. It's becoming very popular. I'm all for kids playing this before they get to tackle, all that stuff.

And if you love it, I'm not telling you don't love it. I'm not even hating on it. I'm just telling you that since, the Super Bowl, I have not had this need to have, you know, I have to watch more football. I like other sports. I'm watching other sports. I'm feeling good. But this flag football thing is all over the place. I know nothing about this story. I know nothing about the Olympic stuff. So I need, but I know this has been a big topic with Tom Brady and Joe Burrow and whatever else is happening. So I need you to fill me in on what in the world is going on with flag football, the Olympics, and what I need to

know about this. Sure. So I mean, I guess the, the, the clips know, version here is that flag football is going to be the Olympics in LA in 2028, which is coming pretty quick, right? That's not, it, it seemed way down the road when this was all kind of for, the NFL first started talking about it, but like, they're going to be in the process of picking these teams, like, pretty soon now. A year ago at the owners meetings, unanimously NFL ownership approved NFL players to participate in the Olympics. One player per club will be allowed to be on Team USA. And since then, right, we've like, I mean, we did it here at the Ringer. We kind of did our, like, dream roster, like, who would be great on USA flag football. You know, we all kind of had a lot

of fun when some of the actual, like, team USA flag football players, remember their quarterback was like, and better than Patrick Mahomes. And we all were like, that's the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard. Now, fast forward to earlier in March when there was actually like a flag football tournament and it was a couple teams made of NFL players who were coached by Kyle Shanahan and Sean Payton playing against like the team USA flying football team and the NFL players got their asses handed to them. Like they just got torched completely embarrassed. I mean it was fantastic content, right? I mean, but they also like they trotted out. Tom Brady was quarterbacking one of the teams, which great. That probably helps you sell some tickets in, I think it was in LA where they had it. But

You had Joe Burrow, you had Jane Daniels, you had Jalen Hertz, you had kind of like a mismash of random defensive players. You know, they didn't prep for this, but they were, they just were completely, like, unaware of what was about to happen to them in terms of what flag football is like. And the type of football players that are good at flag football are not the same that are good at NFL football. So, yeah, I mean, they came out of that talking to Sean Perel. and Kyle Shanahan about it this week where they were just kind of like shell-shocked

of like, holy cow, this is, I mean, it's a little bit like maybe like European-style basketball compared to like an NBA, you know, like American-style basketball where it's like, it's the same sport but a very different style style and like maybe guys with like different skill sets and body types can be successful in a way, you know, on one arena that they wouldn't be in the other.

but really what the NFL folks came away from this was is like it's not about size, it's not necessarily about strength, it's not about, you know, even when you think of Patrick Mahomes, who is like, you know, he's, you know, the way he kind of like can scramble and move, but like he's not this like really shifting kind of guy.

It's like, it's all about being like really small, side lateral movements. Can you bend? Can you get really low? Can you like duck under, you know, move your hip mobility and stuff? And it was just like, holy cow, this is a completely different sport and it requires completely differently trained athletes. So Sean Payton said, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a single NFL player on Team USA.

I think there's going to be plenty of NFL players on Team USA because the NFL is putting a lot of money in this and they want to sell tickets and there's a marketing thing behind it. But this is not going to be like a dream team 1992 Olympics where all of a sudden, you know, you're putting together They're the so-called NFL All-Star team, and they go and they run through and win an Olympic gold medal. This is going to be, I think, a very heavy flag football-focused team, maybe with a couple NFL players sprinkled in. So are the people who are good at this? This is like brand new. I'm like shocked. This is crazy to me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around it. So are the people who are good at this? Are they like former college football players or at least high school football players? or is it just like these are great athletes? It sounds like elusiveness is kind of the thing that is bigger than anything else here. Yeah. Well, and this applies a little more specifically to women. And a big part of the growth of flag football is it's a place for girls and women to play and potentially play professionally. They can play college.

Ultimately, they're starting a pro football or pro flag football league. But Sean Payton was saying one of the things that he learned when he was looking at this. It was like, some of the best players were like point guards who weren't quite big enough to like play like high level college basketball or professional college basketball. But they have that like vision and agility and like passing instincts. And so like in the women's game, he was saying that there was a lot of that. Like he saw that kind of that pipeline of like, yeah, it's kind of about smaller. In many cases, smaller is better. which is why I always thought like Kyler Murray, right?

Like, picture Kyler Murray playing five football. Probably not, you know, maybe not coming off of all of the injuries and stuff that he's had. But he's kind of in my mind, the like the NFL prototype of somebody who would probably succeed and maybe be able to translate his game there in a way that Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow and certainly Tom Brady at 48 years old or whatever cannot. Yeah, I guess the running thing I understand with the quarterbacks, It's hard for me to like imagine that there are people who could throw the football better than NFL quarterbacks just in terms of back here. Yeah. And I think it's just that it's not the most central part of the game in the way that it is in the NFL.

Why do NFL players want to do this? They want to be in the Olympics? I think they want to be in the Olympics. Okay. And they want to like show that, hey, we're the best at any kind of football that there is. And then the flip side of this, too, is like, like, you know, they're having these flag football tournaments. And Joe Burrow, who, how many hours have we spent on this podcast talking about Joe Burrough's injuries and protecting him and the investment that the Bengals have made Joe Burrow out here trying to like spin away from tackles on a turf field in March or Jaden Daniels.

Yeah. Who, you know, his, his protecting himself and keeping him from breaking his elbow again or planting weird. That's the other side of this. the coaches don't love it, but they also know that it's a priority for the NFL to have these guys on this stage and being part of this massive initiative and the guys want to do it. And luckily they came out of that. Joe Burrow didn't get hurt. Jane Daniels didn't get hurt. But I was nervous watching Joe Burrow, especially in this league. Yeah, there can't be a, if you're an NFL fan of a team, I can't imagine there's a high percentage of people there who are like, I want my quarterback or my best player. to be playing in this just because of what you mentioned. It's going to be nerve-wracking the risk watching some of this.

But as you said, priority for the NFL not going anywhere. So we'll see. Maybe the best players won't be NFL players, and it'll be other players, and it'll still be popular, and everybody will have a good time watching it in the Olympics here in a couple of years. All right. Next top, next bullet point here. 18 games and the international slate, Lindsay.

I had a little bit of a, I don't know if it's a conspiracy theory, but I noticed that this was not necessarily like the big topic in odors meetings. It sounds like there were more, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but more like side conversations, murmurs, but we don't want the monster headline to be from this owner's meeting about an 18 game season. And this is on the heels of the NFLPA installing J.C. Tredder as its executive director, which, you know, felt to many of us, myself included, like, oh, the NFL got what they wanted, somebody who's going to be very league friendly and give us what we want and it's not going to be hard to negotiate against this guy. We're all aligned. So I almost wondered if the NFL just wants a

little space between that hire and that news and news of an 18 game season. So what did we hear about an 18 game season and then we can get into the international slate and what their plans are with that aspect. Yeah. So 18 games is going to, like it has to be negotiated. It's not something that the NFL can kind of just unilaterally go in and make that. change. And a lot of the stuff that has to be negotiated that'll be part of the next CBA has kind of been on hold while the union gets its shit together. And the union has been a mess for at least a year now. You know, they spent last season with an interim director. They went through this whole process of who is going to be our new permanent executive director. What did they do? They brought back the old

player president who had resigned kind of after, you know, resigned in some bit of shame last year. A lot of members weren't super happy with him, but now J.C. Trudder is back. They reelected the same prior president, Jalen Reeves Maven, who is currently a free, I think he was a free agent last year as well. So the units kind of just running it back with some of the same leadership that they had before with now with J.C. Trudder in more, even more, position of power. But so now that J.C. is formally back at his in charge of the union. And now this is only about two weeks old. So now they kind of can like reset and say, okay, what's the timeline now? for these significant negotiations.

But when it comes to 18 games, and my sense for a long time, honestly, since they went to 17 games, which was what, four, five years ago now, 18 games is an inevitability. Like, the league wants it. When the league, when there's something that the league really, really wants,

it tends to get it. And that's how a lot of the owners speak about it. The folks in the league office don't necessarily love when, you know, somebody like Robert Kraft starts talking about 18 games and when it happens, because there's a lot of steps that have to go there, and there's a lot of negotiations and stuff along the way.

But it does feel like it is something that is coming no matter what. The players obviously will have a lot of things that they want to negotiate as part of that. What are they going to get in return for agreeing to that 18th game? And that I think is more of like the part to be paying attention to over the next couple of seasons is what is the push and pull, I would be stunned if 18 games doesn't happen. And they're kind of doing this long-term planning. In addition, you know,

and part of that is an international expansion with the assumption that in the not too distant future, the schedule will be 18 regular season games and two preseason games. Yeah, a matter of when, not if, it feels like for sure, even though there are steps to take to get there. Current CBA is not set to expire until 2030. So that part is interesting, right?

Because it's like, are the owners going to wait that long or is there going to be some way to get this house? I don't think they want to wait that long. I think they would like to start sooner than that. And now that the union at least has their leadership in place, they can kind of start that process. But everything was on hold for the last year because they couldn't start negotiations on a long-term CBA with an interim director while a union was such a mess. I mean, they could have. They probably could have smashed them even more than they usually do. Yeah, I know.

I'm surprised. They didn't just take advantage of that situation. Very unlike them. There had to be some reason. Well, they didn't do that. That works in their favor. Robert Kraft said he would like to see, as you mentioned, with the 18th game, a second by week.

So now we would be talking about a 20-week season. Whereas back in the day, it felt like you get to week 10-11. All right, we're reaching the stretch run. Now it would be like, all right, you've reached the halfway point. week 10 of the NFL season. So again, it feels like a matter of when, not if that 18th season gets added. In addition to that,

the push for international games, Lindsay, with the 49ers going to Australia to open the season against the Rams. This year speculation about, hey, there's going to be one international game for every team, every season, just kind of what you were hearing or what you were observing on that front.

Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately that's the goal. They're trying to get into as many markets as they can. And as the season expands, as they make it more common, that there will be games on, you know, different days. Like, we're going to have at least one Wednesday game this year. The kickoff game is going to be on a Wednesday. It's been reported, not officially confirmed, but I think we all should just plan for there's going to be a Wednesday night

before Thanksgiving. So at Thanksgiving week, there'll be a game on Wednesday. I believe three games on Thursday, a game on Friday. Christmas is a Friday this year, so there's going to be a bunch of Friday games. They kind of made this little tweak to the rules that games on Friday now is not considered a short week. So that's going to allow for more of those games where they're not going to have to deal with the rules about how many short weeks you can have. So yeah, they're really expanding the calendar, the days of the week that are available. Fridays and Saturdays are off the table for a lot of the calendar because of the sports broadcasting act and college football.

But Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays once we get into late December, Saturdays once we get into mid and late December, we're just going to be having football every day of the week and in all time zones and all parts of the world. That is really the NFL's dream. And as long as all of us keep watching it, they're going to keep doing it. So, yeah, go ahead. I'd say. It's just, it's honestly shocking that more of this hasn't happened yet. I mean, we've talked about it on this podcast for years where I'm like, for as greedy of a league as the NFL is. And even though they're doing so well, they want, you know, more. And there's the Mark Cuban quote from

several years ago. It still is kind of shocking that if you just look at it from what their inventory is in terms of games, which are the, you know, that's the thing that drives the league and the interest and fantasy and gambling and all that and just individual team fandom. that they have that many, they're like the sport where you'll watch kind of any two teams. They're really the only sport left in, you know, in American sports where you're just like, yeah, I'll, I'll watch this, even though I don't have a rooting interest, to have all that inventory sandwiched in two, primarily two windows on a Sunday, all at the same time where it's impossible to watch, you know, all the games at once.

It actually is shocking to me that they haven't even gone further at this point. You mentioned the different days. And then I think about, you know, years ago where they did the, would do the Monday night doubleheaders. Like I'm shocked that isn't a thing right now where they're just like one game on Monday is good, but two games on Monday would be better. That's another package we can sell. And Thursday night, like when's the Thursday night doubleheader coming? That's coming at some point as well.

So yeah, I just feel like they're going to look at all these windows and be like, why are we putting all our inventory into these two windows on a Sunday? Yeah. And they actually officially now, and as of April 1st when we're sitting here recording, the ESPN and NFL network merger is now official. Adam Schaefter and Ian Rappaport, co-workers as of today. NFL Network as we knew. Were they day drinking together at the pool or no?

I did see them, if you count coffee. I saw them walking out of the coffee shop. Breaking news. Together like this, strolling, strolling. And I was really kind of mad. I love both of those guys. And I was like, man, I did it by camera. Like that would have been the cats and dogs.

Like, look at our brave new world. happening here. But, so as part of that merger, those extra games that went to ESPN and were part of that double header package, those are no longer going to exist. And I'm thrilled about that. I hated the Monday night double header. One, because the games went super, super late.

The late, you know, if you're on the East Coast, like, I don't know how you would possibly do it. I mean, I'm an old person who lives in the Mountain Time Zone and I could not do a, I couldn't stay up for the end of those games. But I don't think a lot of fans like to them either because, you know, the split screen was really weird and you were feeling like you had to choose and it kind of like reduced the impact

of one of those games where Monday Night Football should feel special and it just did not in that double-heder package. So they're actively shopping that package of games right now to the streaming services. So those will kind of be redistributed and who is going to land those games and what windows are they going to be in?

But yeah, I mean, there's going to be more windows. There's going to be more places where we watch games. It's going to be coming, it's going to be even more complicated with all of the subscriptions that you have to access if you want to watch the full slate of NFL football. Because right, last year you had to have Peacock, Amazon, Netflix. Was somebody else? Was there any but YouTube?

Had a game, which YouTube you can get for free, right? But like, that's a lot of subscription services that you need to get to be able to watch the full slate of games unless you're in the, you know, your home. You're always going to be able to get your home market games, you know, like you're going to be able to see every single Eagles game. Yes, more windows, more networks, more places to watch, more logins, more times to remember your password. It's all coming in the NFL.

All right. Last league-wide thing here, the international stuff, Lindsay, Kyle Shanahan, it does not sound happy to be going to Australia to open this season. I believe it's a, so this is a Thursday night game for East Coasters. It is a Friday morning game if you are in Australia. and the 49ers have to take a 19 to 20-hour flight to go play the Los Angeles Rams. And I don't think that would be Kyle Shanahan's preference. It sounded like from his comments at the owner's meetings. No, they're not happy about it.

And they're not happy about it for a couple of reasons. One is the travel aspect of it. And just like this is, it's one thing to go to London. And even if you're going from San Francisco to London, that's like a pretty, you know, that's a big commitment. That's a long flight. But to go to Australia. You said 18 to 19 hours.

That's, I mean, it's different days. And then how long does it take to adjust your body clock, all of that stuff? So they have a lot of questions about the logistics of it. And, you know, the league is trying to get ahead of it and say, we're going to get them the best travel accommodations that you can imagine, the biggest planes, the most comfortable, you know, accommodations, all of the sports science stuff to help you handle all of this. The other reason they're pissed about it is because they're losing a trip to SOFI,

which is essentially a home game for the Niners. Because when they go to Los Angeles, they go, you know, it's 60 to 75% Niners fans at that stadium. So they're mad that they have to kind of go through this whole process to go to San Francisco and to go from San Francisco to Australia. And they kind of are losing a one-hour trip to L.A. where, you know, it's a pretty friendly environment for them. Yeah.

Shanahan said, I don't see any pro. It's cool for the league to play globally. I think that's awesome, but as far as the team doing it, no, there's not much benefit to it. So Kyle Shanahan fired up as always. I love Kyle Shanahan. He is good for one like super grumpy. I don't have time for this shit. I would like to be day drinking in my like Euro style short shorts.

There you go. All right. He looked great, I will say. When we look at that team photo, the coaches' phone, photo, you know, he looked like he was coming straight from like the south of France. So he was. He was he, he eschewed the general uniform of just kind of the golf polo and he was going a little bit more stylish there. I noticed that in the photo as well. All right, those are a bunch of the league wide topics that Lindsay Jones had covered during her trip to Phoenix. Let's take a break. We come back. We finish with some team specific topics in the NFL right now.

All right. We are back here on the Ringer NFL. All right, Lindsay. This first one is not necessarily owners meetings related, but a story dropped that is getting some buzz on ESPN today about Jalen Hertz from my friend Tim McManus and Jeremy Fowler. And it's about, you know, Jalen Hertz's role in some of the Eagles issues last year and really for the last several years where it says he pushed back on changes that would have diversified the offense. He's been reluctant with some of that stuff. He diverts from the game plan and changes play calls because he doesn't like some of the stuff being played. So this all comes obviously on the heels of the Eagles making a big offensive change going with Sean Mannion from the Green Bay Packers. I was joking. Like if you would have said that, you know, end of last season, hey, the Eagles big fix for fixing their offense. They're going to get Sean Mannion.

People would have been like, who is Sean? Wait, where is he coming from? Who is Sean Mannion? It's not necessarily Mike McDaniel or someone else. So my take on this, Lindsay, is that a lot of this stuff, I don't want to say a lot of this stuff. It was very thoroughly reported, but the criticisms of Jalen Hertz, I think were fair,

that he doesn't like to throw the ball in the middle of the field, and he doesn't like to go under center, and he doesn't like under center play action. The personality stuff, I mean, you could tell me if I'm wrong. I don't get that wrapped up in that because I feel like most NFL quarterbacks are pretty weird and have things like that about them. But the stuff with his preferences, I was like, yeah,

that aligns with what I've watched with Jail and Hertz over the year. So my take was actually with the organization. And I like that you were just at the owner's meetings and you get to see, all right, how are these different organizations viewed? And I feel like the Eagles want to be viewed and have been viewed strong organization, good culture, you know, ownership to GM all the way down. But like, what does it say about the organization that no one could like have these conversations with Jalen Hertz over the years? Like, I know you don't prefer to. do some of these things, but you know what? Our offense isn't very good right now, and we need to make changes. We need to make drastic changes and let, we promise you, you're going to be good at them.

It's going to make you better because a lot of the stuff you can't just implement in the middle of a season like you need a big overhaul. And it just feels like no one was able to get through to him over the years with some of this stuff. And maybe it was just that they were winning a lot of games. But that was one of the things that stuck out to me is that sometimes the Eagles, I feel like want it both ways where they're like, oh, yeah, we're a model organization and we've got all these answers that no one else has answered. And it's like, you've had three years of trying to get your quarterback to try something different and you've been unsuccessful doing it. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of what I took away from that article too was like, it wasn't entirely

surprising to me, right? Like, it kind of like confirmed what it felt like to watch the Eagles over the years. And it was a bit of like the Brian Curtis, now they tell us. Like, we were just learning more about what was going on behind the scenes that helped inform something that we already knew that we had been watching. But yeah, I think it just kind of peeled back a bit on the dysfunction that has been going on within that offense. And that's what happens when you have lots of turnover year after year after year with who is the voice and the headset. And then a lot of the questions that we've had too about like what does Nixiriani do? What is his voice like in that room? Who is in charge? Who is dictating the identity and the message? And, you know, we kind of revealed a bit

of the disconnect that goes on in that relationship. And yeah, I mean, I think Jalen Hertz needs to be better. I think that's pretty obvious when you've watched them over the course of a number of years. I mean, even before they started their Super Bowl run and they were, you know, one of the most fun offenses in the 2025 postseason. I'm trying to make sure I have my years, right? But there was a lot of times during the 2024 regular season where it was like, I don't know about this.

Right. This doesn't feel great, right? and what is Jalen doing and what's the conversations like? And yeah, but you just have all this turnover. You have a lot of different voices. You have somebody who, you know, look, he's a confident guy, right? He is also maybe not the most outgoing charismatic player necessarily. Not one of the guys type quarterback.

Yeah, yeah. So it's like you got to have somebody who can get through to him. You got to have some better communication that's going on within that building. And then there's also a bit where I get where he's coming from, too, where it's like, I just want to, I made it to do Super Bowls and I was the best quarterback in both of those Super Bowls against Patrick Mahomes. What else do you want me to do?

So there's like a little proof of concept for him that like he can play well in these big stages. But clearly something hasn't been working on the other, you know, some of the other elements. And yeah, I mean, as you get further into your career and the stakes get a lot higher of how much you're getting paid and all this stuff, I think they're definitely at a point where they have to get it right this year. They have to, what does Shan Manian do to fix this? Is he of a different communication style that's going to work?

Is Jalen Hurts going to enjoy what's in that offense? Is he going to, I don't think he's going to get rewired. Like, I don't think he's going to suddenly become like a different person. So, yeah, so it was interesting. I liked reading kind of some of those behind the scenes details, though, but it's definitely going to become, I think, one of the bigger offseason stories. They have a lot riding on Sean Mannion, a team trying to win the Super Bowl. Maybe they'll hit.

Jeffrey Lurie was dropping names like, hey, we found, you know, Andy Reid at one time. We found Sean Payton at one time. It's like, man, you're putting a lot of pressure on this guy who's been a coach in the NFL for two years. So we'll see what that Eagles offense ends up looking like. Probably not until the game start next year, to be quite honest. All right, a couple other notes around the NFL. The Cleveland, what has happened with the Cleveland Browns, Lindsay? I mean, I just, every time I look up, there's another weird story with the Cleveland Browns.

Is Deshawn Watson going to be in a quarterback competition now after we thought his career with the Browns was over? Are they going to draft Ty Simpson? They're not trading Miles Garrett, I guess. What is going on with the Cleveland Browns? I don't know. But it's confounding. So it had been a couple years since I'd been at the owner's meetings. And one of the last times I was there, it was right after the Sean Watson trade.

and Jimmy Haslam was kind of saying insane things about Dishon Watson. A year ago at the owner's meetings, he was talking about how that trade was a swing and a miss, where it was finally like, yeah, we've been telling you this, that this was a really bad trade. We've been telling you it was a bad trade for a lot of other reasons, not just because Dachan Watson has been bad at football and very injured. And they just finally came around to it. And now this year they're like, he's completely walking it back, and they're talking about how he's going to be in the mix,

and maybe he could be their quarterback, and maybe they could extend. It's like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And, you know, I kind of just keep coming back to like, they don't have to do this. Can somebody tell them that like they don't, that trade was four years ago. You don't have to keep like reinvesting and doubling down on something that clearly failed. We've seen multiple teams since then remove themselves from a bad contract, a bad trade.

Look at what the dolphins are doing right now. of the dead money that they're taking on, the Broncos got themselves out of their Russell Wilson mistake. So I don't understand why the Browns keep feeling like they have to try to make this Deshaun Watson thing happen when it so clearly is not working and hasn't worked and is not going to work. And the longer they, the more they prolong this,

the harder it is to kind of move into the future. So they're just constantly doing stuff that is baffling and reminds you of why bad teams and bad organizations stay bad year after year after year. Yeah, it's baffling. I don't see the vision. I don't see the plan. I don't know why they're holding on to Miles Garrett when Max Crosby got two first round picks at one time this offseason. Why you don't say, hey, let's look ahead to the future with one of our only assets. And then this quarterback situation holding on to Deshaun Watson. I don't get that either. So we'll see if they make a move for Ty Simpson in the draft. There's been some buzz about that. We'll see if they just have this. Chadore Sanders, Deshawn Watson, quarterback competition and addressed quarterback next season. Who knows what the Cleveland Browns will do next. I am begging Miles Garrett to force a trade.

Miles. He tried that, but then the money was too good, and he chickened out last year. I was so mad. I've been mad at him for a year, and I'm staying mad at him because you don't have to do this, buddy. You can go somewhere else. You don't have to be, I love Joe Thomas,

but you don't have to be Joe Thomas. Get out of there. You're still going to get paid. You'll be happier. Yeah. He couldn't stick to his guns. Yeah, he chicken down. I was like, did you see my favorite Cleveland Brown story from the owner's meetings?

Oh, no. What I missed. So did we, I mentioned real quickly the, the coach's photo. Yeah. There were 31 coaches in the photo. Who was missing from the team photo, the coach's photo? I assume Munkin. Munkin said no.

Munkin didn't say no. Munkin wasn't there because he went to get his haircut. because he wanted to look good for the team photo. After we've made fun of this man for the fit of his suit and kind of his entire aesthetic, he was like, I am getting my haircut. And he thought he timed it outright

at the Biltmore getting all cleaned up. But you know what? He missed the photo because he was busy getting his haircut for the photo. So if that is not your 2026, Cleveland Browns in a nutshell, I don't know what it is.

A good lesson. I can't even get the team photo right. Got to get your time. Time's down. Got to use that Google calendar. Todd, it's going to come in handy next year. He did make it to the day drinking. I did see him there. So maybe he hit the most important thing. I don't know. Yeah, his priorities. Maybe they were, his priorities were in order. All right. Thank you to Lindsay. John, that was a lot of fun catching up on everything that happened at the owner's meetings. I am Sheila Kapati. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Stefano Sanchez for video editing and additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna Rahm Gopal. We'll be. be back next time on the Ringer NFL show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming, gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-Mai Reset. Call 1-888-7-8-9-7-7-7-7 or visit cccpgagbling.org in Connecticut or visit

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