The Ringer NFL Show - Tales From the Last Game in Oakland, the Playoff-Bound Bills, and More Week 15 Reactions | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: December 16, 2019

Kevin traveled up to the Bay Area to watch the Raiders play their last game in Oakland. He talks about witnessing one of the most storied fan bases in sports support their team one last time (0:38). Then, a Stock Up led by the 10-win Buffalo Bills (10:30) and a Stock Down led by a disappointing 49ers loss (35:45), before we break down why we are excited about the duo of Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury, as well as the best rookie wide receivers across the league (48:00). Host: Kevin Clark Guest: Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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State Farm. Talk to an agent today. It's the Ringer NFL show. Part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark. Joining me today, Danny Hyfitz, Danny Kelly. We're talking Buffalo Bill, Samson's 49ers, Dallas Cowboys.

A lot of things. Kyle and Murray. But first I want to talk about where I am right now. I'm in Oakland, California. A couple hours ago, I was on the field standing in front of the black hole, and I saw the last ever black hole boo in Oakland. Derek Carr walked over there after they lost Gardner Minchu and the Jaguars, and he was loudly and emphatically booed.

He said, what's new with this crowd? It was kind of tongue-in-cheek. He understood what was going to happen. when you go into the black hole after literally throwing a Hail Mary that bounces off somebody's face mask. This was not a good game. I will say this. I'd never actually been to Oakland. I walked around the parking lot.

There's probably less than 10 parking lots in the NFL where you feel like you're having a big game atmosphere. You feel like something's actually going to happen. There's just too much regulation with tailgates. The most stadiums are just too new. You know these stadiums. They host Super Bowls. There's a lot of glass everywhere. the sight lines are perfect. There's field suites.

Oakland is not that. It is a deeply crappy stadium. It has staircases that go to nowhere. It has dugouts all over the place. But it might be the last truly crappy stadium. I think that all new stadiums are alike and every bad stadium is different in their own way. And that's Oakland. And I wanted to take in a game there because I feel like it's an underreported story.

The Raiders had said goodbye for so long that no one was really, ready to say goodbye on Sunday, week 15, two weeks before the end of the season in a very weird season. Okay, the Raiders did not meet their expectations, even the expectations set up for them in October when they were a playoff team. So I went there and I just wanted to see what it was like. And it was strange. As I said, the Black Hole did not take the loss very well.

Fans stuck around for a long time. After the Raiders players left, pretty much one by one, there were fans. And not a lot. Maybe, maybe 10, maybe a 10. maybe a few more, started just jumping on the field and getting arrested. They just wanted to get put in cuffs. I'm not really sure once one guy did it. They saw what happened.

There was no open space. There were no plays to be made out there. Guys would just jump on the field and then they would take two steps, get tackled, and go to jail. And so it was explained to me. And they did it anyway. They just wanted to see it. And I thought it was a strange site, to be sure.

this was 20, 30 minutes after the game. I was just hanging out and kind of watching how the black hole reacted. I mean, this is the one of the most famous fan base is one of the most famous sections in football. And I'm just watching them do their thing for the last time. And I thought about sort of the human cost, I guess you could say, of the LA saga, of the relocation saga. This is going to be the third team to leave in four years. And I think that there just hasn't been enough focus put on the fan. We're going to lose this.

And with the Raiders, it's a little different. It's not like St. Louis. It's not even like the Chargers, because I feel like the Raiders are viewed as having a national fan base that's going to travel to Las Vegas. And I understand that, especially the L.A. fans, they can just drive four hours. But I feel like there were tens of thousands of people in Oakland to whom the journey is over now. And that's, that's just, they're not going to fly down to Las Vegas eight times a year. They're not going to have the same approach to it.

And I think that Oakland was a really cool place to watch a football game, and that's over. And I just wanted to take it in. I thought it was a very gloomy day. I don't think it was especially, I don't think Raiders fans covered themselves in glory exactly, except to say that it was passionate fan base. It will always be remembered as such. And I was glad to have seen it in,

I guess you could say all its glory on Sunday afternoon. You know, Jerry McDonald, the longtime Raiders writer had a tweet earlier today that when the guy who checked his credential talked to him, he said that there was a he'd lost his second job in a year because he'd I guess check tickets at the Warriors games as well. The Warriors Stadium and the Raiders Stadium right next to each other. Literally they share an entrance at one point on one side of the building. And I just think that there's, you know, again, like Oakland is an up and coming city. I'm staying in it tonight.

It's getting cooler. It is obviously in the Bay Area, which is one of the most, you know, lucrative markets in all of sports, all of America. It's just a weird thing. The L.A. saga is the weirdest thing that has happened to football in the last decade.

When you start to read about it and all the different things and the fact that it was supposed to be the Raiders and the Chargers at one point, people like Jerry Richardson supported that. And then Stan Cronky went.

Now it's up to $6 billion with him. I mean, it is one of the strangest things. That's why Seth Wickersham and Don Van Nata's stories on it have been so good, is that all of a sudden the San Diego Charter has moved to L.A. They've sold 25,000 tickets.

They've undercut the PSLs for the Los Angeles Rams who made the Super Bowl last year and can't seem to sell out their new stadium. I mean, it is an unbelievable saga, and this is the end result, which is football is over in Oakland. It's really sad. They go to Las Vegas. They go to a shiny new stadium. I understand there'll be nice fans there, but it would be different. Football is losing something on Monday that it had on Sunday.

It's the Oakland Raiders experience in the city of Oakland, in that stadium, in that parking lot. It wasn't perfect. They needed a new stadium. It was deeply crappy in some parts, but it was football. It was fun. I enjoyed it. The Oakland Raiders will be missed in a very specific way. All right.

I want to talk about all the bad football I saw on Sunday because, first of all, there was a great window of games, especially the 1 PM game. I loved some of these games. We're going to get to them. But I'm starting to think about how many crappy teams there are and how many coaching opportunities there might be and what has happened in the league in the past. couple of years. Since 2018 began, there have been 16

coaching changes. 16 coaching changes. And then you started to think about the people who were hired before 2018, who look like they're on their way out. Those are people like Jason Garrett hired in 2010. Dan Quinn, 2015. Doug Marone,

2017. These types of guys. We could be looking at 20, perhaps, head coaches who have come into the league since the beginning of 2018. And then you think about the supply problem. I was actually talking to an owner this week. And we were talking a little bit about how the game is changing

and the coaches are not changing enough with it. There are a lot of young smart coaches, but it's not, even someone like the Shaw McVaytree, that's not as analytically inclined as you would think. And so that's kind of the David Tepper thing. Where does he go if he wants sort of a really analytically driven coach? I don't know. Here's what I know.

I know there's going to be more openings than ever. There were eight last year. Shaw McVeigh's friends got a bunch of them, and now there's going to be more of them. And you just start to think, where are the good young coaches going to come from? Is it going to be a college hiring spree? Is that where the Matt Rules come from? Is that where the Urban Myers come from? Irmire was in Washington on Sunday watching the game with Bruce Allen. I don't know why he would take that job. I think that the cover story there is he's watching Dwayne Haskins. Really, I think that you could look at this. He's driving up the price

if Jerry Jones wants to make a run at that. Having said that, you have Lincoln Riley. That's something Brian Curtis and I talked about on the podcast on Thursday. That's probably the best option. This is a guy who just creates Heisman trophy candidates or winners every single year. And so that's the guy if you're going to try to solve your quarterback, you go get Lincoln Riley. But what I think is going to happen is I think there's going to be a lot more openings than there are good coaches. And this has always been the case, but I think it's going to be heightened because of how hard it is in the modern era to be a good coach. It was much easier in 2000 or 2005 or 1995.

when it was just basically, you know, three offenses, everybody hired their friends, and it was really easy as long as you cared about work ethic and preparation to be an okay team. From talking to old timers, the vibe I get is you could get by like that in 1990. There was always rich cotites. There was always the kind of guy who went one in 15

that happened every couple of years. But the reason we're seeing more just absolute disaster head coaches is because it's really, really hard to win now because there's more schemes, because the innovation cycle has sped up because someone like Sean McVeigh can look like the most innovative coach in the history of football one year

and the next year after basically a destruction at the hands of Bill Belichick, everyone else like he's figured that out. The sport moves so quickly now that it is so hard to get the little edges. That's why it's amazing that Bill Belichick and Andy Reid to keep winning these games. But from everybody I talked to in the league,

it is actually harder to be a good head coach now than it ever has been. And so to find the head coach, that's good when you have eight openings a year, seven openings a year, and you have 20 head coaching openings since the beginning of 2018. It's really an unprecedented time in the history of football. And I don't know what owners do because it's going to take a little while for the guys who have these quote unquote modern principles to get in there. And so you're going to be hiring 35, 40 year olds, whatever it is. And I just think that it's it is harder than ever to find a coach.

And this is why, listen, Detroit has to eventually make a move. Matt Patricia is a really bad coach. Cleveland's on the edge. Adam Gase, really bad coach. They've got to make a move. But I think that it's getting harder and harder to figure out who the good coaches are because there's more creativity on the top end. I just think it's a good thing for the league,

but it's a bad thing for franchises that have no idea what they're doing. And those franchises are going to end up in the same cycle over and over and over again. And, you know, listen, it sucks to suck. Okay, now we bring in the ringers Danny Heifitz for stock up and stock down. There is no bigger stock up after week 15 than the Buffalo Bills who have 10 wins for the first time since 1999. Danny Heifitz, what were you doing in 1999? Oh, man. Learning to walk?

Oh, come on. Something like that. You were 25 years old. Okay, so they had the NFL's longest streak without double-digit wins. They have a resounding nice win over Duck Hodges and the Pittsburgh Steelers. On Sunday night, Sam Donsky, the former ringer employee had a great tweet. He said it's not just clenching the playoffs. It's a big deal.

It's that the bills have graduated from the In the Hunt graphic, which they've perpetually been in for about five, six years. They obviously made the playoffs and lost that game against the Jaguars when they had Tyrod Taylor and Nathan Peterman, but they didn't clinched out to the last game in the season. They finally get to clinch in the middle of the season. They've got 10 wins. They're not necessarily in the hunt for the AFC East championship, but it's a nice season for them. Danny Hyfitz, what do you think by this game?

Trudevius White is amazing. And the whole defense is fantastic. It's like this no-name collection of people that are just, I mean, none of them are particularly. Well, it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, right? They are no names because the national media doesn't pay that much attention to Buffalo. These are some really good players. They're great, but they're not famous. That's the thing.

Davies White's the most famous player on a defense. Like, it's not that fan. And he should be more famous. But it's, I love that it's just, it's a very buffalo team. That's kind of a cop out to say. But I mean, even Josh Allen is like the, this guy that was just kind of like lambasted in the draft process. And now he's buffaloes. And now he's like very much like there.

And John Brown is some of this free agent who bounced around who's just not like really wanted by any teams, bounced around. Even the bills were kind of like, we didn't really know what we were getting. We didn't really know what we were getting. had three employers in three years. And now he's just like fantastic and a part of that team. Like it's just, it's a very rag tag group that is all like gelled perfectly. Sure.

Yeah. So the bills, as we talked about on Thursday's pod, the bills, the Steelers, a lot of these teams are just turning me into a traditional football guy because I've spent a lot of time in Buffalo and I've spent time with Sean McDermott. And they do the analytics thing.

I've talked to Brandon Bean about it. I've talked to Sean McDermin about it. But they believe in culture so much. One of the interesting things I thought that we talked about in August was, they did a 360 review process. And essentially, they wanted feedback. They weren't just going to give the players feedback. They were going to get feedback of the coaches and the head coach from the players.

And assistant coach would give feedback to the head coach and all the way around. 360 review process. Sean McDermott got it from his brother who works for the MLS. And it's just a really interesting thing there. And what they really cared about was understanding the culture that they had in there. and bringing in the right guys. And again, this is someone who is, I'm very analytics-based. I like what I can measure and all that stuff.

And the bills, although they do have one foot in that, they believe in veteran presence. They believe in Frank Gore to teach Devin Singletary things. They believe in this veteran thing, you know, one of the things that they took from New England, quite frankly, everyone talks about the Patriot Way and how guys like Matt Patricia can't steal it or guys like Bob Quinn can't steal it. Or some of these guys, you know, Eric Mangini couldn't replicate it.

All these guys have come from New England. Well, one of the things that the bills did, even though they don't have any ex-patriots employees, is they learn the right lessons for them. One of them is that they really like veteran players. And they think that there's a inefficiency as far as bringing in a guy who's an older veteran, a mid-level veteran for $6, $7 million a year when the cap keeps rising. And he knows how to play. And he's not going to cost you a ton of money relative to the salary cap.

and all of a sudden you've got Cole Beasley. All the sudden you've got John Brown. All of a sudden you've got Frank Gore or any of these guys. Mitch Morse is another one of those guys. They needed to show up their offensive line. They've had some injury, so it hasn't all been perfect as far as those guys go. But that was the plan. And so I think the way they've built this team, the culture,

all of the things that they were talking about in August and September when I talked to them, it's all come together and I couldn't be more impressed. I also just love their skill players. Like even Devon's single, like, like Frank Gore is like this white walker like I think he's there half because Buffalo's like cold enough that he can just stay you know stay in one piece for the whole season but devon singletary behind him has just been he's like a shot in the arm every time watching he's so much funny just darts and dashes he's amazing yeah um I totally agree with you is there anything

that you've seen from this game obviously listen the Steelers were when you consider what happened to the quarterback situation and some of the other stuff and the fact that we dunked off the Mink of Fitzpatrick trade and we were proven wrong. The Steelers were in and of themselves overachiever. So let's not act like they just beat the Baltimore Ravens here. But this is a really nice win for them. Do you think that the Buffalo Bills can make any noise at all in the playoffs? Yeah, of course.

They almost beat the Patriots when the Patriots were playing their best football all the year. And Josh Allen threw three or so picks in that game. And they still almost won the game. So absolutely. I mean, the bills can beat anybody. It comes down to, I mean, they can't beat anybody. But it comes down to limiting

mistakes from Josh Allen. And then beyond that, I just think their defense is really talented and well coach. Sean McDermott is an awesome coach. They took away the middle of the field for Doc Hodges today. As you said, Tredavius White was awesome.

You know, all season, his catch rate's been around 40%, which is about what the top cornerbacks in the league are at. And I just think that this is so cool to get to see people like us have known Tredavius White's been elite for a long time,

since basically he had that incredible rookie year. And to see him on Sunday football, get two interceptions, be basically the face of that team tonight. I mean, that was just really cool to see. And that that's why I'm just, again,

I think that the plan that Brandon Beat and Sean McDermott had is all coming to fruition. And I just could not be more impressed with this team. To have Sean McDermott go two playoff trips in three years, when seven head coaches before him had zero playoff trips, that's just Sean McDermott is a good coach. But a huge note. for you in the culture thing. The bills are also one of the healthier teams in the league.

The only real starter they're missing time from is Tynaseki, their right tackle. And even he might be able to come back for the playoffs. That's also just a really underrated part is it's one thing to bring on all those guys. It's another like most of them are pretty healthy. Yeah. I mean, especially when you consider someone like, I mean, Frank Gore, who is 50 years old. And obviously I spent a lot of time with Frank Gore, learning about Frank Gore and the preseason one of the big profile of him. And one of the things that they were doing was, I mean, it was essentially load management. They were telling him to take data. off. They were telling him to take OTAs off in the off season in June. He didn't want to do that stuff because he, again, he wants to just practice in June as hard as he plays in December. But they had a plan. They understand Brandon Bean, Sean McDermott, all these guys. They understand sports science. They understand load management. We talked a lot about that in our conversations waiting up to the season, just how cognizant they were of how modern tracking technology works and how they're able to use that. So again, everything that, that, that,

they've attempted to do they've done it's it's one of the best team building jobs in a number of years all right next talk up the houston texans nice win the ryan tana hill hype train is it's slowing down we're not canceling it he had almost 300 yards today more yards in nashown watson just a little different they don't have dandre hopkins in tennessee that seemed to be the difference uh texans win 24 21 what'd you think i see out of this game danny well first of uh the titans stopped doubling dion jopin jopkins in the fourth quarter and then he had like bad catches for like 98 yards like immediately. That's tough,

but I think it also shows why they're tough to play because when they're receiving court is healthy, obviously Will Fuller is like really tough and Kenny Stills missed some time. But Stills catches two touchdowns earlier in the game. And the Titans are like, damn it, all right, we're tried to do the Kenny Stills one-on-one thing.

That's not working. So then they can't just double Nuck Hopkins every play. And then what happens? He catches 98 yards and four catches in the fourth quarter and kind of puts the game away, along with Carlos Hyde. and I think Carlos Hyde went across 1,000 yards for the first time in his career this year

and they got him for like nothing from the chiefs. So the Texans have like, I mean, Bill O'Brien talk about people who were like, we're kind of getting clown for just giving away the farm. And this team looks pretty good. I think their defense is really suspect. Like the Titans had 21 in this, but they really almost had like 31.

So I think the Texans defense is actually the thing that I'm kind of worried about because otherwise I love this team. Yeah. I mean, this is, I really like the 29th. Houston Texans. I think a lot of the problems that we've discussed in this podcast are the fact that

long term you just gave up two first-on-picts for Lambert Tunsell. You have to pay him at some point, a lot of money. He has a ton of leverage. But from a 2019 perspective, we always knew this team was going to be good. So essentially now the Texans have, according to 538 and 88% chance to win the division. So that's basically it. The Titans still have 50% chance in making the playoffs. And I still really believe in their coaching staff.

I still really believe, quite frankly, in the 2019 version of Ryan Tannehill. I don't know but the 2020 version, but let's put that aside. I just think that you see the difference when you have superstars today. I mean, D'Andre Hopkins, you said, took over the fourth quarter. I was looking at the probability chart on ESPN just to mess around, just to kind of view a different angle of this game. And every time there was a huge uptick in the fourth quarter for win probability for the Texans, it was because they got the ball to D'Andre Hopkins. I mean, this is a guy who wins games.

Deshaun Watson and D'Ondra Hopkins are. one of the, if not the biggest dynamic duo in the league as far as quarterback and receiver go right now. And there's not many you guys, not many duos you take over them right now. And you just, you just see the difference. The Titans, listen, Titans have AJ Brown. They've got a lot of good skill position guys that I've been impressed with. And it's a good team building job from John Robinson. They just don't have Deshaun Watson, DeAndre Hopkins and the fourth quarter, that kind of thing shows up.

Well, AJ Brown went from the buff guy standing next to D.K. Metcalf and all the photos to now the best rookie receiver in the NFL. because he's almost as big as D.K. Metcalf, but also can just do like these quick cuts in a way that most big guys just cannot do. It's like twitchy. And it's incredible. I mean, I was doing a deep dive on yards after catch for a different player this week.

And you noticed how how dominant A.J. Brown is when he has the ball on his hands. And I think that that's been a nice revelation. But we are talking about AJ Brown with Danny Kelly. So let's hold that thought. And let's get to the other side of the ball. It's the New England Patriots. and it's to find Gilmore's defensive player of the year campaign. He has two more interceptions today.

You know, if they're going to give, I think there was some talk about Jamie Collins, maybe in October or November, but if they're going to give defensive player of the year, neither of us have votes to a player who's the face of the Patriots defense, it kind of stands out. It's got to be Gilmore at this point. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Mays said after they beat the Cowboys and he shut down Amory Cooper that he probably won it that week, I think it was this week because it was just such a standout game.

He had like two picks and the pick six. then he said after that he should have had four and that he knew all the routes and they should change the route combos. But look, if Belichick games the system, like Belichick's famous for letting all the free agents walk, Trey Flowers is just the latest. I mean, you can talk about that for endless amount of time. The only two people that Bill Belichick has ever been like, yeah, no, I'm blowing a compick for these guys is Dorel Revis and then Stefan Gilmore. Like, those are the two guys. And that should tell you how important he is to the scheme. And he's lining up across the number one almost every week.

And he's shutting them down every week. And I mean, my favorite stat for Gilmore this year, he has six catches for 126 yards and two touchdowns. And Nikiel Harry, who is the Pat's first round pick, has seven catches for 55 yards and two touchdowns. I think Stefan Gilmore could be the Troy Brown of this team. Yeah, Sam Monson made that point to that Stefan Gilmore might be a better receiver than some of the Patriots receivers right now.

I think there might be something to that, but I also know that Bill Belichick, values a shutdown cornerback enough to not try. Tyler Boyd said of Stefan Gilmore, it was just one-on-one. I won the majority of the matchups. That's a tough look for my guy. That's a, that's not,

that's not what you want to Tower Boyd. I will say this, you mentioned that Stefan Gomore said they, he knew the routes and all that stuff. If you're a Patriots player, do you just take a week off from saying, you know what's going to happen after the advanced scouting? Yeah, that was a huge slip-up.

Maybe he shouldn't be, he's not even the past MP because you can't tell when to change them. They took the tape. So, you know, they had to find out via other means. Very quickly, what did you think of the, of the Jay Glazer, awesome scoop of the video? And I think that one of our ringer colleagues said it was as interesting and pointless as possible. I think the advanced scouts, like they had to take footage because they had to actually confirm the Bengals were actually going to play Andy Dalton in this game. Yeah, exactly.

And then Stefan Giles was like, holy, like they're really going to do it. When I say interesting importance, I want to expand on this. So it was amazing, the actual thing, the actual conversation between the Bengals security and the Patriots employee was amazing. And I don't know. I think the best evidence that Belichick had nothing to do with this is that that guy had no idea what he was doing, right? Like if it was from Bill Belichick, I feel like things would have been.

run a little more smoother. But I will say this. It was a bad look, a bad look for the Patriots to have that direct of a sideline shot. But I also think that, I don't know, like, if you were actually going to do it, wouldn't choose to do it from the stands where nobody would bother you and not the press box? This was, so first of all, it didn't add anything new. Like, it was, it was very much like what was reported. It was an amazing video.

It was amazing video. It was kind of like this arrested development moment. because it was really just like, you know, the Patriots aura can kind of take away from the fact that these are still human beings and like this large organization. And it's so clear that it seems to be

the actual truth here just happens to be an excuse that was actually floated around in the SpyGate reporting. And it happens to be layered on top because you're right. Like the brazeness of this, I think actually is the most exonerating thing. But there is like a very like Joe Bluth quality

to this where Job accidentally does something. that is like incriminating to the entire company. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was amazing to see that. And when I say pointless, I don't mean the video is pointless. I mean that the actual like,

whatever they were doing on, on that video there, what would probably be pointless to an NFL team. And if you're going to cheat, I feel like there are significantly better ways to do it. Listen, I, Austin,

this is that they used to do the defensive signals by hand when they did the original spy gate, now it's over radio. Right. There's a lot of differences. I will say this. This was a terrible look for the Patriots, but I don't think it makes them look like systematic cheaters. It makes them look like they had a very, very stupid employee. And that actually goes against, if you were to say the Patriots got caught cheating or the Patriots had a stupid employee and I would guess which one was more likely, I would actually say the Patriots got caught cheating. But in this case, I believe it to be the Patriots just had a stupid employee. I feel bad even pinning it out of the guy because I don't understand

I don't listen man whatever whatever he was doing was not good like I don't mean I just mean whatever however he was going about his job which was filming the sideline and then freaking out about it and saying I'll delete the tape that was that was a tough one incompetence is usually better answer than malice even with the page that was that's what Amy Trask said on slow news day and I subscribe to that that theory Amy Trass knows a lot about football. She's, you know, been on some Patriots-related controversies with the Raiders.

And her take on this was that you can, whatever can be, can be chalked up with stupidity and not malice is usually correct. In this particular case, obviously, the Patriots have cheated in the past. Okay, let's get to our next stock up. Dallas Cowboys. Brian Curtis said on Thursday show that the Cowboys might have a false hope game where we all get excited. Or, as Danny Kelly said, there might be a Rams back situation. And we found out which one that was.

I saw this cool staff from David Hellman, and I agree with them. The Cowboys dominated a game which Amari Cooper, Michael Gallup, and Randall Cobb combined for 22 yards on three catches. And that's important. He pointed that out, and I'm co-signing that because I think we all thought there was a path for the Cowboys to get better. And, you know, listen, Zeke Elliott has looked average for long stretches of the season. He didn't look average today. It looked quite good. And this is a team in a very

weird NFC that has has some life in them, I would say. Well, speaking of incompetence instead of malice, the refs messing up the coin toss in the beginning. All that happened was hilarious. But it was actually really funny because it didn't matter at all. And that would be a massive crazy deal in any game that was even kind of close. And it didn't matter at all because they changed their mind at half time, but it was already 28 to 7. So it was completely irrelevant. Like the only thing, in doubt the whole game was the coin toss. The rest of it was so decisive. It was wild. Like the Rams had three rushing yards at halftime and two were from Jared Gough. And that was after two weeks where they had been playing so much better. So I mean, this was their best win

since the Eagles in, that was like week seven. And that was when the Eagles had like two turnovers and their first two drives. And now they get to play the Eagles again. So now we're at this full cycle moment where the Jason Garrett roller coaster was as low as it could possibly go last week. And I were right back. They could blow out the Eagles next week. And I were right back. They could blow out the Eagles next week and win the NFC East. And then we're right back to where we're usually big. Yeah, I mean, I think that the one thing I'll say is that every time this team wins, they're another step closer to saving Jason Garrett's job.

So that is, it will always be bittersweet when that happens. But again, the NFC is up for grabs, beating the Eagles is important from a franchise perspective. So I don't think that, you know, I don't think Cowboys fans would be rooting against the Cowboys just to get Jason Garrett out. I think Jerry Jones, despite all his loyalty, will probably get Garrett out if they do anything short of, you know, a close NFC championship loss. So I don't think you need to freak out about that if you're a cowboy fan right now. I think it's just just just go along for the ride, right?

Yeah. I mean, this was, this was a nice game. I mean, I think that the Rams, the Rams, I can't get a handle on them. I can't. But again, I can't get a handle on anybody this year except the top, top teams. I can get a handle on their freaking Ravens. I understand what they are. but I think that there's a big middle in the league this year.

The Rams are in it, the Cowboys are in it, and they swing wildly from week to week. And I think that, you know, if you played this game 10 times, I think you go five and five, quite frankly. I disagree with that. I think that the simplest way to look at this game is that when they played in January, the Rams dominated them in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Right. When they played in January in the divisional round, the Rams rushed for like 273 yards. I reported from that game actually that the Rams knew what the Dallas defensive line was going to do.

So they got 273 yards. That's still, I believe, the most they've had in the year of 2019. And then in the flip side of the ball, the Rams stopped Azica Elia on fourth and one, fourth and two, like two different times in that game. And the Rams dominated the trenches. And this time around, the Rams line has been getting better for a month. But they got, they got wrecked. They got absolutely worked. They had 22 rushing yards in the whole game.

And that's after the Rams have been trying to run the ball more. It's not like one of the classic, like, well, they were behind. So they were throwing. McVeigh has been very conscious about trying to run more. They couldn't do it. And then the Cowboys finally did the thing where, oh, look, they have the most expensive cap space offensive line in the whole league. Also, they paid Ezekiel Elliott.

And then this was the game where he was like, oh, this is the Emmett Smith reincarnated cowboys that they wanted, which is so funny because Jimmy Johnson, Michael Irvin, and Troy Aikman all turned on Jason Garrett last week. And then the next game is the one where this whole Jerry and Stephen Jones fever dream if they're trying to recreate the mid-90s Cowboys actually happened because they ran it down their throats and it was a perfect game. They had 264 yards or whatever.

When I say that the Cowboys and the Rams, if you play this game 10 times, they would probably split it. I'm not talking about extrapolating what I saw Sunday and saying if this happened 10 times, you know, et cetera. I'm talking about the fact that the Cowboys and the Rams have been so wildly inconsistent. This is a Cowboys team that lost Mitch Chubisky.

This is a Cowboys team that lost on the road. to the Jets, who I have no idea what's going on with that franchise. I'm just saying that the Cowboys have laid some real stinkers this year. They are an inconsistent team. It is really hard for me to trust them at all in general. And I feel like the Cowboys are prone to just incredible highs and incredible lows. And when I talk to people in Dallas about this, about just how amazing it is that when the Cowboys win a game and Zeke Elliott has over 100 yards, everything is completely perfect.

And not only that, they're going to win the Super Bowl. And then when they lose to the Jets, it's we have to fire everybody. And I see both sides of it. And I actually think that Jason Garrett's gotten to a point where even after they dominated a game like this, I don't actually think that the Cowboys fans are going to go back into Super Bowl mode. I think it's going to be more like, well, just wait and see how to do it against Philadelphia. But I think it's a really interesting season where they've got so much talent.

And they should be so much better. and whenever they win, I think we assign to them the values they should have given their talent. And that's why I think that when they win a game, everyone gets so excited, even though, what, 12, 13 days ago, they lost in Mitch freaking Trubisky.

Look, that was, the Trubisky game was tough. I picked the Cowboys to make the Super Bowl this offseason, and I stuck by it midseason, and this game reminded me why, and I do want to point out, even if they, whatever happens, the NSEs sucks, blah, blah, blah. Every year there's a division winner,

that is like unworthy and people makes gets people talking about receding that team wins in a playoff game that team wins a playoff game yeah I mean maybe so the Seahawks won that the Beesquake game when they were seven to nine the Panthers were like seven eight and one or whatever

in 2015 they want a playoff game the Cowboys get like they're going to win a playoff game and they're going to turn the whole thing moot yeah I do think it was very funny to see the reseating talk this week Adam Chetford said it's probably not going to happen or there's never actually been, there's been discussion, but no actual serious proposals or anything like that.

It's, it's not going to happen. And also, the league, if the argument to the league offices, we need, we don't need the Cowboys in the playoffs. Probably going to lose that argument. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. With two-thirds of guys experiencing noticeable hair loss by age 35, most guys assume losing their hair as inevitable as they age. Some don't care.

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The Sandman's go 49ers. Yikes. According to the NFL, this is an interesting stat. They're the first team to have 10 wins in a seat. season and also lose more than three games or three games in the final 10 seconds of regulation or overtime in 19 years. The 2000 Eagles did that. They finished 11 and 5. I don't remember much about the Jazz and Eagles. But that's outstanding to me. They, I think, you know, losing close games is a lot of times luck. There's been a lot of research on that. But at some point,

you can't lose to the damn Atlanta Falcons. The Falcons have been better. They're not the team that we just got the breaks blown off them in September or October, but this is a bad loss. What if the Falcons only beat teams that are NFC contenders? Because they just beat the Niners and they already beat the Saints. And maybe it's that they're so broken and a ghost of losing to the Patriots in the Super Bowl that they're trying to warn all the NFC teams that you don't want to lose to this, you don't want to play the Patriots in the Super Bowl.

What does that say about the Seattle Seahawks who beat them already? not a contender. Not a contender. They're one in one against the, I don't know. Okay. They already got ghosted by the Panthers. The Falcons have now won four of their last five. They've beaten the Panthers, the Saints, the Panthers again, and now the 49ers.

Their one loss was to the Buccaneers who were just going to throw in that. Even though they are worse than any playoff contender, they are so inconsistent that they can, they can beat teams in any given day. We've seen that. Are the Falcons okay? are the current, I think the falcons, they've got the Jaguars and the bucks, the rest of the way. This is a bad loss, but there is a case to be made, the Falcons went out here. Now, I'm, I'm, it's always important to remember, like Kyle Shanahan was the coordinator for the

Falcons obviously and there's that Super Bowl run. It's always weird. Wait, oh, you think that Dan Quinn has figured out Kyle Shanahan? Well, not figured him out, but Kyle Shannon worked for him for like, uh, what, two or three years. Like, that's always important. Calh Shanahan's a better coach than Dan Quinn. Yeah, but I'm not really... I don't think that this game is necessarily like, oh, the 49ers are crashing or the Falcons are better.

It's not shocking to me that, like, oh, the Falcons had a really good game plan for the guy that they worked with for like two or three years. You know, I don't think that that's stunning. I do think what's stunning is everything that it took to happen. There were two reviews at the end. Julio Jones scored a touchdown for the first time in like two months. 10 games, yeah.

It was like... The actual sequence of how this happened was insane. And the fact that the Seattle Seahawks moved to the number one seed in the NFC of the Niners are now slated for a wild card is absolutely bonkers if you watch the final 60 seconds of how this played out. Like it was bananas. And especially because, I mean, again, the Seahawks, their point differential is like 12 or 20. And the Niners is like 160. and now the Niners are going to get like the five seed and the Seahawks are right now slated to be the one.

So that was going to be my point from this. It's just how razor thin the NFC West is right now. And that's, you know, that is, when you talk about reseeding or something like that, I'd actually much rather have the capability and that actually doesn't matter because of obviously the Saints are really good team. But if there were two teams in the same division

that both won 12, 13 games and were in, in the hunt for a buy, I would feel like there'd be more justification for giving one of those teams a buy than doing what we have now, which is, you know, if there's a... So obviously, the Seahawks and the Niners both have 11 wins. The Packers are there

with 11 wins as well, and then the Saints have 10 wins. And I think that if you're going to have any talk about reseeding, and again, this is all hypothetical, I think you might want to think about giving two teams in the same division the buy. and just figuring out later. I'm not sure that would work with the home games or whatever,

but that's not my job. I don't run the $15 billion industry. I think that we should keep it exactly. It's perfect. And in fact, the NBA should do this too. You want to make the playoffs. You're going to win your damn division.

I know that the NBA is going to go to like, they're just going to do one thing, get rid of the east and the west. No, make it the division. And then that way, whenever it gets angry, it's great because then you start channeling the anger toward your division

and you start hating your opponents. And that's, it's great. Outside of the Orlando Magic's division, I cannot tell you the breakdown of any divisions. Do you have any, but you're like a really like a Miami Hurricanes football fan. That's your, like, are, is there any ACC teams you hate? Yeah, Florida State.

Isn't the best thing about football like you hating Florida State? Isn't that just as fun as like, love? They're in it. They're not in the division. They're not in our division. Okay, but you hate Florida State because you have a rivalry. Like that, that is key. Like, there is love and hate are together.

You can't have one or the other. So the hatred is key And the people who are wanting to be all logical With the ooh math 11s more than seven No hatred is essential and you have to hate your division It's the engine Miami sports run Miami finished in the coastal higher than Florida State did in the Atlantic anyway

The point I wanted to make was that Kyle Shanahan This week actually talked about how much he got He got better by coaching against that Dan Quinn defense And that was one of the things that he talked about Was the fact that obviously the Dan Quinn defense was proliferating around the league. There's a lot of it. I actually talked to Jed Fish about that last year with the Rams about how that Seahawks defense,

obviously that Dan Quinn comes from. That Seahawks defense became so popular and that running offense against it is usually fruitful. And so I don't think it's a matter of Dan Quinn figuring out Kyle Shanahan because Kyle Shanahan had an even bigger advantage. So I think this is just a weird game. I think that the Seahawks, excuse me, the Niners are after a huge. huge, huge game in New Orleans. It's just a bit of a letdown.

These things happen. It's also important to know Weston Richburg was out for this game and their centers, centers are underrated. Now that I'm a huge football culture guy, I now believe in trap games. So it's been, it's my second week believing in football culture and I'll be damned if we didn't run into a trap game. All right. Next, this is yours.

Quarterbacks that could have held onto their jobs like Mitch Trubisky, Kyle Allen. We're not going to put Doug Hodges in this because he couldn't hold on to his job if the Steelers got healthy a quarterback but I think he lost the backup quarterback job. He lost something tonight. What did you want to talk about here? Well, so there were a bunch of quarterbacks

that I think that there was at least a conception that if they played really well down the stretch that they could hold onto their job. I think that was a thing with Kyle Allen like earlier this year, Mitchell Trubisky if he played well and Duck Hodges like, I'm not, I'm seriously, even the backup job. None of these guys should return

to the holes. Are we, is Mason Rudolph getting this job? I just kind of assume that that was not happening. I don't think any Pittsburgh Steelers. Like every Steelers fan spent six weeks being like, get Mason Rudolph out of this, out of this team. And then it turned out, Mike Tomlin felt the exact same way, but couldn't really say it because of how the Cleveland Browns Steelers game ended. And he had to wait till like the next game in the middle of it to bench Mason Rudolph, because it would look like he wasn't really standing behind him. And then Hodges comes in and is so like marginally better than Mason Rudolph that Steelers fans

convinced themselves he's fine. The reality is he has thrown over 152 yards once and he hasn't thrown a multi-touchdown game. And the Steelers offense is quite honestly, it's one of the two or three worst in the whole league. They have a lot of great window dressing because Deonté Johnson is incredible.

James Washington's so much better. James Connor is awesome. They have a lot of great players. But Mike Tomlin said this in early October. He said... A really good way to help a young, which was his code word for bad quarterback, is to turn a 70 play game to a 50 play game.

The Steelers play the, like, play the ugliest football in the whole league on purpose because their entire offenses, please don't screw this up. And the bills kind of lost because the Steelers, I mean, sorry, the bill's kind of won because Duck Hodges

kept screwing up. And I know he's an undrafted free agent, and I know that's not shocking. But the same with the Panthers and Kyle Allen. I don't totally understand why there's, the Panthers are just automatically going to trade Cam Newton. Because Kyle Allen,

really good for an undrafted for agent quarterback. But he's an undrafted for agent quarterback and people shouldn't be shocked when he plays like it. Like bless his heart, but he had two picks and in back to back plays. Do we just get a bless his heart? How do you, Danny Hyfitz? Bless Kyle Allen's heart, man.

I'm sorry. I'm with you on the Cam Newton point. I thought that when he started looking around for destinations for both team and player, the best situation for him is Carolina. Yes. And the best quarterback that Carolina is going to get is Cam Newton. Now, if something crazy happens in the quarterback

market and someone really good shakes free, or if some really good quarterback drops down in the draft, I can see where you'd want to move on. Or just keep Cam Newton. Who cares? I mean, is it, what, 22 next year? Just keep them. Who cares? It's 22. It's $22 million. I think $3 million is dead, and they would save $19. $19 million. You know what? Sounds a lot for me. That would be great. But like, that's, the cab next year is going to be $199 million anyway. So we're talking about almost exactly 10%, which is nothing for Cam Newton. And what I don't understand is I think Ian Rappaport reported for NFL Network that they wanted a draft hall. Well, if Cam Newton's healthy and you're going to get all these picks, you might as well keep him.

And if he's not healthy, you're not going to get that many picks. So you might as well keep them and like, see. So look, there's always information that we don't know and that it's probably a better idea to kind of assume like, all right, what are we missing here and what could be we'd be missing? thing that would make them want to get rid of Cam. But I don't really understand what the purpose is of dealing him when they, as you've said multiple times, the second he's gone, they need a quarterback. So I feel that way by Kyle Allen. The Steelers have no plan post-Ben Rothesberger, which is what we learned this year, zero

plan, the idea that Rudolph or Hodges is anything, I mean, Ben's 37, 38 next year. They have to start from scratch on a plan B there, as do the Giants, quite honestly. I think the Giants should just draft a quarterback and wipe the slate clean Daniel Jones. And then the same deal honestly with Trubisky. The bears have to, the bears need to know by now. Like him falling short of the goal line today at the end zone was like the perfect metaphor for this core team where they have put everything in place and they got so close. And then Trubisky's, they just couldn't get it done. Yeah, I'm with you.

The whole argument, I guess, is a new fresh start with new coach, whatever. But I'd much rather just take that fresh start and have Cam Newton. you can still have a fresh start with Cam Newton happens all the time. All right. You want to talk about Chubisky? Big Mitch. Well, he's on your list here. Dude, he's not good, man.

The bear's got to get rid of this guy. We've talked about this. Yes. So I just, I think that he comes back, but they have competition for him, right? I mean, that seems like the most likely thing. I don't know. They absolutely have to. I kind of want to.

The real thing I want to mention that I didn't mention the 49ers is that George Kittle pancaked a poor defensive back on the Falcons. And then like it was so crazy dominant that he actually had so much momentum that he panicked him and then rolled. And then the camera pans in on him as he rolls. And he's laughing maniacally like the Joker, which is like his thing. He got a Joker tattoo like the morning before his wedding or the day before his wedding.

And he's like the Joker on the field. and he actually looks like the Joker in this video. Yeah, I feel like we might have some more words about George Kettle coming to the ringer.com fairly soon. Wow. Accidental promo. Accidental promo. Okay, Danny Hyfitz. Thank you so much for joining us.

We have another Danny coming on, Danny Kelly. He's got his big take of the day. Danny Hyfitz, appreciate you coming on. Thank you, Kevin. Love Danny Kelly. Okay, Danny Kelly. The ringer is dark night. He's here.

He's got, we were going to. say one big take. First of all, that's a blatant rip-off of SEPs one big thing. And it's also, the other problem with it is we actually have two things to talk about. So we're just 0 for two on this. The first thing I want to talk about Danny, Kyla Murray,

Cliff Kingsbury, they cancel the Browns. The Browns, I mean, that's just another. I actually don't want to, if we start talking about the Browns, we're never going to stop. So let's talk about Kyla Murray and Cliff Kingsbury and what they were able to do today and this season. Yeah, so

They snapped a six-game losing streak, I believe. So obviously, you know, the season hasn't gone, you know, perfectly or anything. But I would say that I'm- Let's not get bogged down with details about them losing six straight games. I would say that I'm a Cliff believer and a Kyler believer. Where do you land on both of those kind of areas? I've always been a Kyler believer. I believe that there were just a lot of things that were special about him.

I mean, you don't go first overall with that kind of stature when you're under six feet without there being a lot of special qualities and also the ability to avoid contact, which I think is really, really important. The ability to stay healthy as he has when you're not six foot five is quite amazing. And I think that he's, I always knew he was going to be a really,

really good player. Cliff, much less optimistic on. And he has, he has exceeded my expectations. Again, it's not like, we're not dealing with 13 and 3 here. But as far as offensive adjustments, as far as him being able to take what he had adjusting it week to week. I mean, he really has changed his offense.

I mean, from week one into week seven, week eight, now up to now, he is changing the offense every single week. And I think that a lot of times college coaches, I talked about Chip Kelly a million times, a lot of times college coaches come with a couple good ideas. They never adjust it. I think Cliff Kingsbury is making the necessary adjustments

to get his offense where he needs to be. And that has impressed me. because I kind of, the first season, they don't have a ton of talent everywhere. They certainly have a lot more talent than they gave Steve Wolks last year. But it's, you know, this is not, this is not the Rams here. Okay. This is a team that is, you know, there's not a lot of veterans. They are in a rebuilding state.

And so you can't really look at wins and losses necessarily. It'd be nice if they had 11 wins. But I'm looking more in the details and I've been impressed with what Cliff Kingsbury's been able to do. I think that your point about him adapting as the season goes, on has been really good. And it's a good contrast to their opponent this week, you know, in the Browns who have not really been able to adjust at all throughout the season, with the struggles, you know, especially on offense. It just, it doesn't seem like they've done, made the necessary adjustments and changes to kind of fix what was happening there. And

that might be an indictment upon Freddie Kitchens. We'll see. It sounds like they might keep him for the long term. But when it comes to Cliff, yeah, I think for sure, you know, what he's done has impressed me. And it's all about context because the Cardinals were legitimately the worst offense in the NFL last year, like by a long shot. And that was with a first round quarterback, you know, starting for a majority of the season. And so, you know, there's some ability to compare what they did to last year. Their offensive talent this year is not good.

Their offensive line has struggled. Their wide receiver core is a work in progress. And that's putting it really kindly. Obviously, Larry Fitz is good, but he's getting up there in age, and then the rest of the group is very young and unproven. The running best group was supposed to be buoyed by David Johnson, but he's just completely falling off the map. And so what Kyler and what Cliff have been able to do, you know, offensively,

their passing game has been exciting. You know, they have tempo spacing, you know, all the air raid fundamentals. But then, like you said, they do other things to adapt and kind of like get the most other guys. but the run game has been extremely, extremely good, too, in terms of efficiency. It's the number two, I believe it was the number two offense or run game in DVOA coming into the season. Then we saw Kenyon Drake just go off for four touchdowns today. And they just dominated on the ground. They basically were able to dictate what they wanted to do.

And, you know, from a fan of football in schematics, it's just fun to watch because, you know, every run that they do has a couple of elements that just make it harder on a defense. you know, they spread the ball out. If they're not spreading the ball out, they're doing pre-snap motion or post-snap, you know, orbit motion. They're doing option stuff with Kyler. Kyler adds to the run game. I think he had like 58 yards on the ground today.

And so, yeah, I mean, I just think overall, there's a lot to be done with this team still, clearly. But I'm cautiously optimistic about where, about the direction that they're going. I think if they get more talent, that they could be a good team, they could be a team to contend in that division. So you talked about the team last year in Arizona, that defensive coordinator for the Browns, Mr. Steve Wilkes, that's worth, that's worth noting.

So, yeah, I mean, this is, this is an impressive team. And I think that, I think they're, I don't know if they're a year away. I mean, when you have a young quarterback like that, who's dynamic and good, you can sort of accelerate things quickly if you take a bigger step than we anticipate. but yeah, I mean, this is a good team. We want to talk about your second take on your one take is the rookie receivers. You focused on them from

a fantasy perspective. We talked about Danny Hyfitz and I talked about AJ Brown a little bit. Where are we on these rookie receivers? We like them a lot more than we thought. There's not supposed to be a beast of a class and yet we found some gems. Yeah, I mean, we came into the season and I think that most people

the general impression of the class from a draft perspective was that it was deep but not necessarily very good at the top. And they have absolutely outperformed expectations by a lot. You know, Brown is, he legitimately looks like he's going to be a superstar like Andre Johnson vibes just beasting through people constantly. If he starts getting like solid volume, he is just going to dominate. Terry McLaurin, who I believe was a third rounder just looks really, really solid. When we say Andre Johnson, I mean the Texans version and not the weird Titans version from like 20, was that 2016? That was wild.

Yeah, yeah. I mean like peak Andre Johnson. That's obviously a really, really high comparison, and he's got a long way to go to get there, but that's just like body.

I have no memories of Andre Johnson on the Colts in 2015. He played on three AFC South teams. Where were the Jaguars in 2017? I don't know. I don't I don't remember I don't think I remember anything from that Colts era either I only remember He he he did he played all 16 games and 500 yards He uh I only remember the titan saying is I put an interview request

For him in 2016 that's the only reason I remember that that um Terry McLaren you were saying yeah Terry McLaren has been extremely extremely good and it's kind of interesting because he totally blew up the senior bowl and and for some reason, you know, maybe it was just his numbers at Ohio State or whatever. People were still kind of overlooking him. He's been amazing. D.K. Metcalfe, Darius Slate, and looks like a future star for the Giants. Devo Samuel is just blowing it up.

And then you have a couple of guys, Marquise Brown, Mikul Hardman, and Deonté Johnson, who have all been very promising, you know, in smaller roles for their teams. And so I think it's just been very fun to watch this rookie class just break out in the second half of the season. and for a rookie class that wasn't generally regarded that highly, it kind of makes me think like what, it's fun to think about what this 2020 class is going to do

because they're supposed to be, I think I saw Daniel Jeremiah say it was like the best class he'd seen ever maybe. And so like this is just going to be, you know, not just a lot of fun watching these guys, but it makes me really look forward to kind of seeing what this next class does too.

I picked Hardman to an offensive rookie of the year and that's not, He had five, he's 500 yards. It's pretty solid. I thought he was going to get more playing time. Yeah, I mean, in that whole Chiefs offense has been really hit or miss in terms of all the injuries that they've had. And, you know, obviously the total numbers have fallen off. I think that's not a terrible choice.

You know, I think the biggest surprise is probably Darius Slayton, who's just come out of kind of nowhere. I think he was a fifth rounder, and he's come out of nowhere and scored eight touchdowns for a pretty bad team. Is Kyler Murray, the offensive rookie? of the year or Josh Jacobs? I picked Kyler. I guess it depends on Josh Jacobs' health the last two weeks of the year. He's got the shoulder.

I don't know how they judge that. If it's just pure stats or if it's like partly... Let me stop you right there. It's pure stats and voters. Just being, this is the guy seems good. It's not going to be hard, then. Impressive standpoint, Kyler, I think, would win out.

I'm looking at the odds right now. Daniel Jacobs and Dwayne Haskins are playing. us 10,000. Don't know about those. Daniel Jones? Daniel Jones or Dwayne Haskins. Yeah. Remember Daniel Jones mania started out real strong. It was amazing.

All right, let's leave on this. Who will be the best career of any rookie receiver that you've viewed so far, Danny Kelly? Oh, man. I think I have to go with AJ Brown just because he has done what he's done with very low volume. And if he gets into an offense where he's getting the ball much more frequently at a higher rate, I think he could just

dominate. All right. Yeah, that's why I think I'd have to go with that. Danny Kelly, thank you so much joining us. What do you have in the ringer.com this week? Put in my first mock draft of the drafts season up this week. Are we keeping that a secret? Or can you tell us who's, I guess,

Joe Burroughs number one? Yeah, that's probably, that's pretty much locked in at this point. And then, yeah, Chase Young number two. And from there, we kind of got to figure things out. Uh-oh. Here we go.

All right. Assuming Chase Young declares, it's kind of sounding like maybe he's going to play coy for a while. Yeah. Okay. All right. Danny Kelly, thank you so much for joining us. Read his mock draft on The Ringer.com. Thanks, Kevin.

Thank you to Danny Hifitz. Thank you to Danny Kelly. We'll be back on Thursday with another edition of the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. This holiday season, immerse yourself in all your favorite holiday classics with a new home theater system from Sonos. We have Sonos in our living room. It is perfect for action movies. It is perfect for all the dumb shows that I like watching, especially the ones with great soundtracks, just crank that one up. Or just listen to music when you're having a dinner party.

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