The Ringer NFL Show - Teams That Are a Pick Away, Plus the Stefon Diggs Extension

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

Kevin, Nora, and Steven react to the news of the Eagles-Saints trade, Tua stans, and Stefon Diggs’s extension with the Bills. They follow up by discussing teams that can turn into a contender through the draft. Host: Kevin Clark, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is the ringer NFL show. Part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Kevin Clark joined on a news of Wednesday by Norrisi. Norr, hello. Hi, Kevin. Stephen Ruiz is here. What's up, buddy? I'm feeling good.

I'm feeling good not to be here on an emergency situation. It was very civilized. We had a plan. When the Saints... When the Saints Eagles trade broke, I was like, oh, man, just don't be an emergency pod trade. And it wasn't. It was a pick swap. So I was very happy.

It was so confusing that it's almost impossible to bring it up on a trade. I was on Mina's show yesterday when we were talking about it. We were both kind of like, I think I know what this is. I know Hallie Roseman's back. That part I know. But we're going to get to that. This is the first time in weeks. Just swindling.

Value God. This is the first time in weeks we've had a podcast that went off at the regular time on the regular day. Right? Like even the Todd Bowles promotion, we had to move up the podcast. gas for. Feels good. It feels good to be back. It's been a while. That's true. It's been a while. When I was in Palm Beach a couple weeks ago,

I was talking to a guy who runs NFL team, and he was saying that the way that the NFL has gotten so comfortable with trading superstars, with if there's a contract negotiation that starts to stall, like, it's no longer last resort to trade that guy for a first round pick. Like, because of that, I think we're going to see even more. We're going to get like nice afternoon June days interrupted by big trades, I would say. So Stephen, get used to emergency pods, buddy. Well, that blows. Kevin. I'm just letting you know that's the buzz is that the

Tyree kills of the world. That's not isolated. Right. Not an isolated information. First news today is upon Diggs. For your $104 million extension, goes through 2027. This has been talked about for a couple of weeks. It is, the market has been reset for wide receivers. Tyree Kill gets $72 million guaranteed.

Devonthe Adams gets $65 million guaranteed. We sort of understand what this is. If you're the Rams right now, I saw a report a couple hours ago that the Rams wanted to do right by Cooper Cup since he makes 15 a year. I don't know how they make that better at the cap, but of course they will.

Steven, this seemed like a pretty obvious move for the bills? Yeah, I think before the Christian Kirk deal or maybe even before these trades of superstar receivers, we might have analyzed this trade a little more in depth. But now those numbers just seem like run-of-the-mill numbers. And for a receiver of Diggs caliber, yeah, it makes sense. What are you not going to pay him?

I don't see any downside to this move. Maybe he falls off. But then you just, you unload him, you cut him. This is how the NFL works now. I don't think there's any issue with paying good players. I don't have any issue with that anymore. Certainly not with the bills who are right there in the AFC, and you don't want to experiment.

Like, I think this all the time, right? You could maybe get cute with Diggs and let him play it out and let him test the free, whatever it is, play the franchise tag game with him, whatever you want, but do you really want to be the guy that finds out that Stefan Diggs either didn't want to play out the string or is upset or hurts team chemistry? you know, one of the things Bill Belichick is amazing at is understanding the value of contracts in the locker room. And I think that Brandon Bean is also pretty good at that. And one of the things when you have a lot of

really good players is the bills do is you have to balance that. And I think that Diggs and his role in the offense, his role in the locker room, all of these things, I'm totally okay with paying a premium to not find out that letting him play out the string will be a problem. Nora? Yeah. Well, what's interesting about it? And I think it's, close to a no-brainer. I mean, it's a lot of money for sure, but it's the player is worth it. The window is open. All of that makes total sense to me. What's interesting about it is just in relation to a conversation that I thought was really interesting that we, if I do say so for ourselves, had a couple weeks ago, I think it was a couple weeks ago, when we were talking about,

okay, what's sort of the value of a number one receiver right now? Because we are seeing good teams, the Packers, the Chiefs, have this willingness to move on. And is there going to be sort of dueling philosophies of get the number one guy, get one of the best guys in the league, pay him what you have to. By the way, part of the reasoning for that is because before they had to do this, Stefan Diggs was one of the best bargains in the NFL, right? like the way that this stuff is moving, things that are expensive become cheap very quickly. So I do think that's part of it.

But when top receiver contracts are skyrocketing in the way that we've seen them do this offseason, it makes me wonder if we will see kind of the reemergence of an alternate philosophy, which is death instead of being top heavy, have the proverbial basketball team. Right. And I think there's real. value to that. It just makes me, but on the other hand, I also think there's real value to Stefan Diggs even at a high price. So it just makes me really curious to see since the cost is getting pretty steep what the smartest teams in the NFL continue to do. Right. And I think that

the bills are one of the smartest teams. I just think that, and I agree with you, there's going to be a time to test out the value. And kind of what we're talking about where maybe in five years, because there's so many good receivers that run the receivers almost become like the running. back where, okay, we can get this guy in the third round or we can let this guy walk in free agency or whatever. But I just don't want to, I don't think it's time to experiment when you are probably the AFC favorite in Buffalo. And that's why I understand why this contract had to be signed. And you just, probably the AFC favorite and your quarterback is someone like Josh Allen who can be one of the most valuable players in football and can do incredible things,

but does need a certain, like, you need receivers that he works well with, right? Like, you need guys who can maximize him because if you have guys who minimize him, the value of your quarterback changes, I would argue, more dramatically than putting an Aaron Rogers with a deeper. And this is not me saying the Packers currently have receiver depth, but an Aaron Rogers with a receiving core that has a bunch of guys versus having, you know, a Devante Adams. I think that's a different conversation just because of the varying skill sets of the players. So because of the window and also because of the particular player, I love this for Buffalo.

It does just make me curious if teams in slightly different situations who are still good teams tackle this type of situation differently when they come across it. I think another layer to this is them having lost Brian Dayball. Like it's one thing to have Ken Dorsey come in and be like, maintain what we did last year. It's another thing to have them come in and go, oh, I solve this problem.

We don't have Stefan Dix anymore. Figure it out. I think it makes his job a lot easy. year in year one. I agree. Anything else on this? Do you guys see that thing where Stefan Deggs admitted that he steals chocolate chip cookies from the double tree in Buffalo?

No. Stefan Diggs recently in an interview admitted to Bill's reporters that sometimes he pulls his car into the parking lot of a local double tree hotel. Steps inside, takes a chocolate chip cookie,

does not check in. He is not checking. He knows value. I actually like that. Yeah, he knows value. Future GM. That's great stuff. All right. Let's get to quickly that speaking of receivers, the Devante Parker trade. I think this does a couple of things. Number one, it shows you that trading within division is fine. I think everybody's going to live if Devante Parker is good with the Patriots this

year. Nora, how does this change the outlook at all for the Patriots Stephen Corps in 2022? too. Well, I think, look, the Nikiel Harry experiment, I think we've seen enough out of that. It seems like Devonte Parker is kind of going to fill the role that a couple of years ago they would have hoped that Nikiel Harry would have filled. I would still like to see them get more speed at receiver, but I think it's a good move. I like it for them. They clearly needed other solid pass catchers if they're hoping for a leap out of Mac Jones next season. So I think it's totally, you're right to say that, like, I just think that the idea that you don't trade within division is totally overrated,

particularly because of the playoff format. Like the Patriots and the Dolphins are not necessarily, particularly because of Buffalo. They're not necessarily head-to-head battling each other for a playoff spot, right? Like, that's just a thing of the past. So I like it. I don't hate it for Miami either. I actually, I think it's a good trade kind of all around. Stephen, where are the Patriots right now in the AFC?

Like, what is this? That's a good question. The trade actually did not affect their odds of winning the AFC at all. And they remain, I think of like, eighth place right near the Raiders, right in front of the Jaguars, Texans, and Jets. So that tells you, like, where Vegas thinks of this team. And I tend to agree. I don't know, I don't know how this offense works even with Devante Parker because the DeVante Parker that we usually get is like, 10 games a year, inconsistent play,

maybe like two or three games where he stands out. And usually we would say, oh, Belichick gets these castoffs, puts them in the system, and they produce. But that doesn't really work for receivers in New England. Like, they've signed a bunch of veteran receivers who've been let go by their teams, and it really hasn't worked out.

So I'm kind of skeptical about this move. Although I think it's a move they had to make. They had to add someone to the receiver room. At least they added someone with some talent. Yeah. I agree. I mean, it helps. and it's low cost and I don't I don't think it's bad I just I think that not enough it's not enough it's not enough

and it'll you know McKeill Harry's era is is coming to an end there and that's that's probably a net win I just don't I'm just having a hard time figuring out I think last year I kind of made the case in my brain that the Patriots if everything broke right for them had a chance to be an AFC contender this year with the way things have shaken out I don't think that they're on even the second tier of contenders Am I wrong with that, Stephen? No, I might put them in the fourth tier, given how things ended last year. We're dangerously close to April AFC contenders' tears here,

and we're not going to go out of the room. We are doing it. No, we're not. We have back-dored ourselves into a tears conversation. Warren Sharp did, Warren Sharp did like 12 tiers the other day on Twitter. You're lucky. You guys are so lucky.

You guys are so lucky. I only did four tiers during the season every week. The tears will continue. until morale improves. 12 tiers. 12 tiers. Warren loves small samples. I got to say.

Well, Warren, all but a part of it with Warren was like, some of it was geography based. Like the LA teams were just a tier, but then they were also the third tier. So. That makes sense. Listen, man.

He's got the data. What are we doing? We're not evidence based. There are 12 tiers. Okay. All right. Fine. I'm putting a pageant in the New England tier.

The New England tier? Who else is in that? The New England Revolution. The Hartford, the Hartford Wolfpack. Whalers? There's a hockey team. No, they're called the whale now, I think. All right, let's move on mercifully, away from 12 tiers to the Saints Eagles trade, which is so complicated.

Normally, if a team is trading first round picks, you can just sort of say, hey, they're trading this pick for this pick. This one, it's pretty deep. So the Saints are receiving 16 to 19. draft and a sixth round pick in this draft. Eagles are receiving a 22 first round pick, which is number 18, okay, a 2023 first round pick, a 2024 second round pick, plus a 2022 third and seven. I don't know what the Saints are doing. That's not to say that this is bad for them.

I mean, they've been in wind now mode for 15 years and it's worked. And now they don't have Sean Payton anymore and they're still doing it, which shows you that the win-now mode comes from the very top. The call is coming from within the house. But this is a curious trade that kind of spells out the plans of both teams. A, Stephen? Yeah, but I'm with you where I don't know what the Saints plan is. I get what the Eagles are doing.

They're adding draft capital, which is a thing that Harry Roseman likes to do. I don't understand it from the Saints perspective. Who are they trading up for? And who is this person going to play with? Like, James Winston is your quarterback. I have, I, you're not doing it for specific person because you have three weeks until the draft.

So you don't know who's going to be at 16. And there could be a run. Everybody's saying, well, maybe it's for Charles Cross, whatever. Like, what does Charles Cross just shoots up draft boards and goes at eight? Like, that, that, that, it's really hard. And also, is this not the kind of trade? Maybe I'm wrong. Is this not the kind of trade that you could just wait until a day before or like the afternoon of

or like right before the fifth? I mean, so many of these trades are agreed upon weeks in advance and then happen on draft day because it's like, hey, if we like this guy, then we'll, and he's available, we'll have this. Like, I don't, unless the Saints are packaging this for something significant, like a quarterback. And even then, 16 and 18 is not some home run duo of picks where you're going to be able to trade up to four or five, six to get a Kenny Pickett or something like that. I'm Malik Willis. I don't see that. And I also think that, you know, I said this on Meena show yesterday, but like not having Sean Payton eliminates from. me the benefit of the doubt to this entire thing.

Like, nobody liked Mahomes, with the exception of Andy Reed, more than Sean Payton, right? And if they were going to trade up or take somebody at 16, I'd say, you know what? I kind of trust them to figure it out because they have Sean Peyton. I just don't, I'm not saying Dennis Allen's bad coach. I'm not saying Mickey Loomis is a bad GM or Jeff Ireland's not a good talent evaluator. I mean, they've shown how good they can draft. I'm just saying that if it is for a quarterback, I would have much preferred Sean Payton picking that and going all in than Dennis Allen, Mickey Loomis and Jeff Ireland, Norwell.

what do we think? Well, unfortunately, Sean Payton is not walking through that door. So there's kind of two circumstances here. Let's break it down. The buzz is that this is likely a pre-trade trade, right? Like that this is step one and then they may use these picks to either go up further or maybe that's a trade for a veteran or something. That makes more sense to me than it was just really important to New Orleans to get the 16th and 19th picks, not that I feel like I have a clear understanding of what the exact purpose is here. So, like, who knows, it would make more sense to me if there's an idea to go up again. That said, you are compounding moves that may not be, you know, positive, expected value in terms of the actual draft capital that you're getting.

But we've seen the Saints do that and not feel upset about it, like with Davenport. They've operated like that in the past. I think there's sort of two scenarios here. One is that this somehow has to do with some quarterback somewhere. And I don't know. Like, it doesn't make sense for that to be a veteran, right? Like, you've already. If the Saints are entering the veteran quarterback trade market a month after everybody else.

They're doing it for a third time. Also, like, oh, wait, Russell wasn't got traded a month ago. Oh, we should get involved. Like, I just don't see that happening. just haven't been paying attention. Right. So what we're trying to do is like eliminate the things that don't make sense. I don't think there's a lot of logic to that.

Yeah. If it's for another quarterback in this class, I mean, maybe the logic is everybody hates this class. Some people are going to eliminate themselves from it. Maybe we can get someone that I like. I don't know who that would be, but I guess I can see it. That is the type of thing where it does concern you that Sean Payton is no longer involved with this because, I mean, very few people like quarterbacks.

much as Sean Payton and very few people I would trust to develop one as much as Sean Peyton. The alternate scenario is that this has to do with a tackle. They have to replace Tron Armstead. It seems like a lot to do for a tackle, even though this is a relatively deep task. But also, when you have no idea what the tackle market is going to look like at pick 16 in three weeks. Right.

But it's got to be for a reason, right? Unless they just did this for kicks and Googles. So those are the scenarios, I would say, ranked from weirdest to still pretty weird, but least weird. As I can see them. Okay. So I think that there's a couple things here. Number one is that a couple of people, including Jeff Duncan, I think Jane Slater threw this out there too, that maybe the Saints feel comfortable pushing their chips in the middle of the table because they know they're going to get picked. when Sean Payton returns to coaching,

which seems like a really, it seems like a little bit of cope, right? Like, oh, we've got these picks coming. Well, what if Sean Payton loves television? What if Sean Payton just loves hanging out and fishing and golfing and drinking a Corona light at 3 p.m. on a Friday instead of watching third down of the Ravens, okay?

And so I think that there's, I think putting your eggs in that basket is really strange. So I think that I don't remember a trade like this that was so abstract that had so many different theories around it this far in advance before the draft. I can't believe you just made Sean Payton a Corona light guy. What what am I, I mean, I don't know what other beer would be more likely. I feel like he's a beer guy. I feel like he'd be a wine guy. A wine guy?

No way. I feel like he's a beer guy. He's a beer guy. He's a wine guy. He's a beer guy. All right. Anyway. Sound off.

I don't know. In the comments. But so here's the thing though. Is it just because you can just, Nora, I swear to you can just tweet at him and find out. I'm, I will do that. He's online. I will do that. We will, like, as soon as this podcast is over, I swear to you.

Over on over under on how many tweets per Sunday we get from Sean Payton this season. It depends on if he's in a booth or not. That's good. That's good point. We will find out. if he's in a booth or even just contributing to anything, we will find out week one if he's coming back. Because if he's just destroying people,

then he is totally comfortable in his own broadcasting skin. And he's ready to rock. But if he's like, oh, I don't know. I'm trying to think of like, so let's say, so let's say he gets dolphins week one, right? And he's like, I don't know, Tua has shown me something. Like that, to me, shows you he's ready to come back. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like, you know how like Belichick complements like the worst players on the other team? If you're finding the silver lining and watching Tua, you still want to coach. We found out recently via the comments that I am immune from Tuanon because of my University of Miami Allegiances and that Stephen, you are not. So they're going to come after you. I led you down a path where you're going to get ripped. And Chris Long now is feuding with all Miami Dolphins fans. I don't know if you guys have seen this.

He's really going after him. It's really great to say. Yeah. It's not a good look for dolphins. We need Sean Payton to take some of the heat. Yeah. I don't have, I don't have any ill will towards the dolphins whatsoever. I actually think quite fondly of the dolphins. They could cover them. I had a great time. I just think that they're currently, their ability to get mad and get mad at people in the media is really funny to me.

And I like them feuding with people. That's my take on two and not. Is it a nice off-season storyline to see who they're feuding with, how they're interacting with different media members. It's just a nice little, you know, April 6th entertainment for me. My take is, like, have some respect for yourself. This is the fan base that rooted for Dan Marino, crying out loud. And now you're standing Tua?

I don't know. How far have they fallen? It's not a good look. All right, let's actually do this for a second. Would you rather have J. Fiedler or Tua? Right now? Well, I mean, like, in this prime. Fiedler won a playoff game in this prime.

I'm taking Fiedler. Chad Pennington won a division and had a stronger arm. All right. Anything else in this before we get to our lists? Stephen, did you bring a list this time? I got a list. I have a list. Okay. Hold on.

I just want to interrogate the same thing a little bit more. If the logic is that, which is I fully recognize is a hopeless exercise. But if the logic is that they could get picks for Peyton, it still doesn't really explain how you're using the picks that you have now. Just keep the picks. Yeah. Just have more things. You know what's better than three first round picks?

Five first round picks. That's right. There's not a cap. I feel like we're discussing this. It's like the Will Smith Chris Rock's lap. I think we're just making, we're trying to pick it apart too much. Like, just let it be what it is.

It was a pickswashed. The Saints are going to be the next, like, big Netflix scammer. Oh, the Saints are Chris Rock. Wait. Nora, let's interrogate this for a second. We're going to have like a Mickey Loomis salary cap thing, like on Netflix. Yeah. Like I think the same.

He's just been living in a really nice camera dog. He's been really living in a really nice hotel in downtown Manhattan on salary cap dollars that don't exist. The Taysom Hill contract episode is going to be a banger. Can't wait. If I'm not mistaken. He's expensing dinners that look at Ku on void years. So. So.

a little bit too niche of a joke. No, it's, it's, it's fine. George Allen, the former NFL executive, he ran the Rams for a while. He ran the Washington football team for a while, if I'm mistaken, got in trouble for trading picks

that didn't exist in the 70s. Yeah, that was iconic. He traded, like, that was how haphazard everything was in the 70s. He traded picks like multiple times, I believe. Put him in the Hall of Fame right now. That's a, that's, I'm surprised no one has done that since. I mean, I'm sure teams have tried.

But yeah, it was, I think it was when he was, he was with the Rams in the early 70s. So that's, I also think he is in the Hall of Fame because of that. Because he scammed everybody. Not because I think he won. He was the two-time NFL coach of the year. Let's get to our list here. we wanted to do teams that are a draft pick away or a move away from real contention. And I think that in a draft like this where there's no clear-cut quarterback,

where there might be edge rushers going at the top, a ton of, there's some cornerback depth, there's some tackle depth. I think teams can really shore up what they're doing, but nobody's going to take some great leap. So really, if you're going to improve yourself, you're already a pretty good team, I would say. There's no real game changers in the top of this draft. So let's talk about these teams that can help themselves. Steven, what do you got? Well, I didn't know we were doing real contention.

I just thought like playoff contention. No, no, just like teams that I'm not saying they're going to make the Super Bowl. Teams that help themselves the most with just one pick. I'll start with the Giants. I was looking at the Giants roster today. I'm writing about Daniel Jones. I like their roster line. I like their new coaching staff.

They brought in Wink Martindale, defensive coordinator. The offensive line, they've made. some additions to it. I think they just need a right tackle, really. And if Daniel Jones is good in Brian Dayball's offense and Brian Dayball's offense is as good as it was in Buffalo, I think this team can make the playoffs and win the NFC East. I don't see a real problem team in that division outside of the Cowboys. And I think the Cowboys took a step back this offseason. I'm saying the Giants, if they find a right tackle at number five are just a starting tackle, I think this team could win nine, ten games.

All right. So that could be icky, that could be Evan Neal, I guess. That could be Cross. Any of these guys? Any of those three. Cross, I think, is the best one of the bunch. I would take Neil second, but either of those three, I think, were. Nora, did you expect some Giants type on this pod?

I did not expect some giant type on this pod, but I love it. I really like it. I'm with Stephen on this. I think the NFC. East too is just the type of the NFC in general, but the NFC East in particular, they could seriously do some damage there.

And I'm into it. Who's your first time? Oh, sorry, go ahead, Steven. I'm close to declaring myself a Daniel Jones guy. I think he's good. I think Daniel Jones is good. Oh, my God. Daniel Jones is good.

Wait, what just happened? I said Daniel Jones is good. Okay. Can I get a little? list of your like of the guys you're thinking about becoming a guy oh just him just him oh okay nobody else no no one else is in the waiting room i have my guys i have not my guys and there's like purgatory daniel jones is in purgatory and he's alone is anybody uh cycling towards being not your guy who used to be your guy oh that's a good question uh you can think about it you can think about honestly tua

twoa i was a two a guy before the draft and he's not my guy anymore so yeah two of. Okay. Former to a non-member. Nora, what's your first team? Well, so, okay, sorry. I'm just going to keep talking about the Saints. Because that was the first.

Well, they are a quarter, they're a tackle and a quarterback away, and they have two first round picks now. So also, the other thing that, they were the first team that I thought of when we talked about doing this exercise. Because the Saints are telling us pretty clearly that they think that they are,

a player away or a couple players away or they've been telling us that for 15 years that's fair but they've kind of been right for 15 years so it might serve as well to listen to them the other thing and we've talked about this basically enough but I did want to acknowledge them as part of this conversation the other thing that we should talk about and we're kind of talking about it with the giants a little bit

is I think the relative weakness or top heaviness of the NFC is a piece of this conversation as well, right? Is that part of their decision to make those trades could be, and I think probably is motivated by looking around and going, you know what, we can kind of do this right now. The competition and the conference is not that strong. Part of the lack of strength of the NFC is that they themselves have gotten worse.

Yes. However, if they themselves get better, I think they still have relatively less competition around them than say, like, a team like Miami trying to take a step, figure out if it has its quarterback in a situation where you're dealing with Josh Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow for however many years, maybe decades. so it's a different conversation. And I don't know that the trade happens if they're on the other side of that conversation. So they're on my list too, because if you have two first round picks and you are two players away, then yes, you can help yourself become much better than you are in the first round. I just, I just am extremely worried about them reaching for a quarterback in a draft where I'm not even sure, to be honest with you, you want to be taking a quarterback at all, let alone at 16.

Like, what is, there's every chance in the world that Malik Willis and, and Kenny Pickett are off the board. Then you're in the kind of Desmond Ritter, Matt Corral Zone at 16. Am I missing somebody, Stephen? Uh-oh. The corral zone. No, I think those are the four that are going to go in the first round, that might go in the first round. My first round, I think, is firmly out of the first round at this point. So, what's, where's he going to go?

Like, what, how? How, yeah, as a prospect. just haven't been, he's just been so off the radar that he, I just, I cannot peg him anywhere. I think we're at the point where there's, there's no smoke around him where I think teams are going to draft him knowing that he's probably a backup. I don't think you're going to get the hype where you're like, oh, this is the young guy, this is the future. It's going to be like a Mason Rudolph situation. Ryan Nassib, the Ryan Nassib zone. Yeah, where you're in the Nassib zone. You were a rumor to be a first round pick and then you

got drafted by a team that just has a guy under contract, which is a hundred, $2 million. Yeah, that's interesting to watch. I'm going to take the layup here and tell you guys about the Green Bay Packers, who are pretty much the definition of this. Like, I don't, they got rid of Devante Adams. They got great value for him. They didn't want to pay him.

I'm sorry, excuse me, let me rephrase that. They did want to pay him. They ended up not paying him, but getting fair value for him. So now they have picked 22 and 28. It was funny because Danny Kelly and Danny Hype is still what team needs thing on the ringer as part of the draft guide. And they just listed the wide receiver position four times, which I think is probably overblown, but like I actually wouldn't hate them taking two receivers with.

So they have 22, 28, 53, 59, 92. I wouldn't hate them taking two wide receivers with their top five points and just, and taking one at 22, whoever's best available, and then maybe 53, 59 something in that zone. Alave might be in the mix there. Dotson might be in the mix there. There's a lot of guys that could fill that role. And we talked after the trade, Stephen, about just the fact that Lafleur's offense got so Adam-centric that we haven't really seen what that offense is supposed to look like without a dominant receiver.

And let me tell you something. It was an incredible luxury to have a guy who could win, basically on every single route. They were basically playing basketball at some point. and so that was amazing and now we get to kind of see it. Is there a guy that stands out to you in the Flora Rogers' offense that would fit here, Stephen?

I think the lave makes the most sense just because he can win in all the areas of the field that Devante Adams won. And I think you have to at least look for a replacement. You're not going to find a like-for-like replacement for him, but if you can find someone that can do 80% of what he does and spread those resources you've got from the trade

out across the roster, I think it ends up being a net positive for the Packers. I don't think it's unrealistic that the Packers are a better team because of this trade next year. If they land, like you said, if they land these wide receiver picks in the draft, assuming they do use them on receivers. Nor on Packers. Yeah, well, this still ends it. I think Alave is a great, would be a great fit.

I don't think they should worry too, too much about, you know, no one's going to be a one-to-one with Adams, but finding someone who kind of replaces the skill set, just because I do think they're going to have to change things quasi significantly. I mean, they use so many like three by one sets, and they're just not going to do that so much anymore because they don't have the one who can be the one in that. And I think that's fine.

I think the, you know, the quarterback and the coach, right? Like the infrastructure there is such that you don't worry about them being able to compensate for that and figure out some other stuff to do. Um, I just think that because of that, you don't necessarily have to look at it as like, okay, even if we're getting a B minus version of what Devonte Adams gave us, let's look for someone who can fill that sort of mold. I think you basically just look for who's the best receiver who can help us the most available. Um, I still think though that, you know, that that, that sign would point to a lave for them. I think that would be great. Who's next for you?

So I also had the Packers on my list. Just because it's pretty, it's, there are a few situations where the need is so, so clear and the team is so ready. And the fan base is going to riot. So this is where I was, this is where I was going to go with this. Since we've talked about, since we've talked about the Packers and receivers.

Let's examine the scenario in which the Green Bay Packers do not use the 22nd, 28th, or let's say 53rd on a receiver. What happens? Does the city burn? Like, what do we do? Well, it's cold, so it would be hard to start a fire. Who do they use it on instead? What position do they take instead? That's my question.

Well, you know, I do, I do quarterback again. Can I, can I take a step back here? They did have Aaron Rogers and draft a quarterback in the first round a couple of years ago. Right. So anything's kind of on the table here. Sam Howell? That's the funniest situation that ever would have taken place in the entire history of the national football. They trade up to like 14 to take Kenny Pickett.

They package all their picks. I don't think it's going to happen. I think that they understand that wide receiver. I mean, even from just a football perspective, even if you didn't want to do it to appease Aaron Rogers, who obviously is going to make a lot of noise this off season. Like, I just, I think it's, I think they have to do with people standpoint. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. I mean, the receivers of this team are Randall Cobb, Amari Rogers, and Jawan Winfrey.

And Alan Lazard. Do not erase Alan Lizard. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I committed Alan Lazard erasure. Won't happen again. They're going to take a lot of seer. I think this is like two.

Yeah, they're going to take one. It's just a really fun mental game to play to imagine. it would happen if somehow they did not. I do think they, like, the need for receivers is so, so obvious, but an edge rusher would be nice as well. And they've got picks, so. Mina and I did team needs for all 32 teams yesterday.

And I, at the beginning of the exercise, it was like, you know, we're going to be able to say edge rusher and corner for every single team. And then we ended up saying corner and edge rusher for every single team. Stephen? My next pick is the Detroit Lions. Oh, Dan Campbell.

What? I love this. Yeah, they're a quarterback away and they're in prime position to take a quarterback, whichever quarterback they want, if they so choose. And if they land, like, let's say they land and they hit on the Malik Willis pick, if they do use it on him,

I think this is a team that's two years away from the playoffs, which is something we haven't been able to say about the Lions in a long time. I really like Dan Campbell's coaching set. Like, I get that he's kind of become a meme coach, but that team played hard all year long. And in games when they were getting blown out, they were playing hard.

And that defensive staff, which came over from New Orleans, Aaron Glens to D.C., they weren't very good on defense, but they did a lot of interesting things. And there was that story from earlier in the year where, like, defensive coordinators around the league were calling Detroit to see how they defended Lamar Jackson.

So, like, teams are interested in what they're doing on defense. that I am too watching them on film. I think this is a good coaching staff. The roster needs to be filled out a little bit, but there's some young pieces there. If they get a quarterback, I think it takes off. Okay. First of all, great point.

I think that the Lions have less holes than you think. Lions are not a great team. They're probably not even a good team. They're not going to win the division this year, but they're building something. Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell have put something together that I quite like. Having said that, when you say the Lions are in position to take any quarterback that they want,

isn't this a failure of Trent Balke to get enough buzz at one where he can auction that pick off? Isn't that the whole point of this draft season is to just lie until someone panics and gives you a haul for pick one so they can get Malik Willis? Shouldn't the lions have to like move up here

and just give up something so they can get Malik Willis at one? Why can't Trent Balke do? Maybe I'm simplistic, maybe that it's so obvious that they're going to take eight and hundreds of it or whatever. But like if you're the first pick in the draft and a quarterback's going to go to, let's say hypothetically.

Quarterback's absolutely going to go to. And you don't need a quarterback. Shouldn't you get something for that? I think so. I think you're on the right track. I do think there has been Malik to Detroit Buzz at number two. So maybe that's what that is.

Maybe that's buzz. They're trying to drum it up so a team tries to leapfrog Detroit. I don't think it's going to work. You think the Jaguars are putting that out there, me? No, I think just a lot of teams in the top five are kind of flirting with these. quarterback. So the Giants, for instance, sent their quarterback coach to the picket pro day,

to the Malik pro day, but they didn't send anyone else. So it's like, we're kind of serious about it. We have the fifth pick. Maybe you might need to trade up into the top five to get one of these guys. I think other teams are doing it. I don't know if the Jaguars can do it realistically. And even if they tried, I don't think it would work. It would backfire somehow. Like, Balki would like, accidentally trade out of their first round. No, he would like draft Malik Willis with like the knowledge that he's going to be able to trade him. And then he just gets. stuff with him like the giant like how the charges drafted Eli Manning but he would end up with Malik Willis yet so

but my my I guess my point on this is that I don't know the first overall pick to me I don't think Aiden Hutchinson or even Kavon Tibado I don't think that they're a defensive player of the year in waiting I think that they're both going to be very very good NFL players but I don't see a Miles Garrett type career from from either of these guys. And if you take an edge rusher, and it sounds like it's going to be Hutchinson over and over.

Again, I understand that, but I would, I would at least try to see what the market is for the first pick, if the quarterback's going to go to. David Tepper seems bored. Just get some, get some, something from him. I don't know. Nora, anybody else.

That is the way to do it, by the way, is look for who's bored. Yeah. Just send texts around. What's going on? It's like when you don't have plans on a Friday at 4 and you just text all your friends. Like anybody want, anybody want to grab a cold one? Sean Peyton, you want to grab a cold one, brother?

Dude, you're kidding me? Aye, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're cooking with gas. All right. Brad Holmes is just firing off you-ups. That's, um, all right. I want to talk about this. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

I do, I do have one more serious thing on this. First of all, Stephen, I love that you put the lions on here because I, I, I, flirted with the possibility of having them on my list. And then I do feel like they're building something potentially great there. I just think that it's a little too soon. Particularly, okay, are they a quarterback away? I just have a hard time saying that because I think they had pretty serious needs at a dresser. I believe they were like last in the league and quarterback pressures or something.

So I think there are more holes there than they can solve in just one off season. But it is such an interesting, even the Rams pick that they have and their own second rounder is very high. Even that stuff, I think it's pretty interesting just because if there's one place where this draft is deep, it's with linemen. And that's kind of like the thing that they don't need. So first of all, you know, they have number two. And will not be limited other than one player and who they can take there. But there should be some interesting guys that kind of fall to them just because if there's

one area where it feels like there could be a run on the tackles and some of the other linemen, they're probably not going to want to be a part of that. So I do think it's just such an interesting draft for them. And there was so much that looked great about that team last season, even if the results were not good, that it just feels like they could really keep themselves moving in the right direction. I don't know if that's going to translate to like a big leap, but it's also very hard to make a big leap just based on one draft if it's not for a difference making quarterback. So I'm just very glad that the lines are part of this conversation. Thank you, Stephen. you're welcome

hashtag thank you Stephen you're trying to try to in folks so I know this is going to sound wild and listen I'll have to go wild on this pot but when I saw the Bengals at the end of last season and I thought what an amazing run

they've had I was you know no one was a bigger bangles homer than me over the past couple of months and then I realized that the barrier for entry in the AFC was getting higher and higher and higher And then if you played next season over again with the way that things have gone with the bills, with the chargers and their improvements, I mean, there are so many deep in the entire AFC West,

Russell Wilson coming over being in the AFC West, Devante Adams going to the AFC West, like just the groups of death to borrow a soccer analogy in the AFC, even the Ravens, you know, getting a little bit better with some of these value signings. there was just, again, a higher barrier for entry. And when I think about the Bengals, I'm like, man, they really need to do something to get in, get in that upper echelon 100 times out of 100 if you played the season that many times. And they did the first step, which is they short up your offensive line in a way that I didn't anticipate them doing. Congratulations. Honestly, Duke Tobin and the NZak Taylor crushed it on that.

And now the next step, which is they need a top cornerback at 31. They have to hit on a cornerback. And I was joking around, but when Nina and I were doing our team needs, like the worst, the worst shade you could get is if we said, oh, they brought back blank, well, their team need is still blank. When you bring back Eli Apple, your need is still cornerback, right? Same thing with some of these other teams who brought back corners. And it's like, oh, cool, well, you still have a need there. And so for me, I'm thinking the Bengals have to have to have a improved secondary for them to be at the top of the FFC. Stephen, what do we think for the Bengals

in 2020? No, I agree. I think you have to look at them as a team that has to climb up again in order to get in that upper echelon because I think a good playoff run may have fooled

less advanced front offices into thinking that they've already arrived. And I think the Bengals, just based on this off season alone, have approaches off season thinking we have a lot of work to do just to get back to where we were. Yes. Much less their move so far, I've suggested that they don't buy into their own height, which is a good.

Which is a very good sign. And I agree, I think they do need to nail this draft. Otherwise, it's going to be very hard to get back into the playoffs. Getting back to the Super Bowl is going to be an even harder thing, but just getting back to the playoffs is going to be a challenge for this team because a lot of things did go right for them. Like in terms of close games and how they operated that offense wasn't the most sustainable approach to playing offense.

So this team has to be better than it was last year on paper for them to get even the same results in terms of winning, what do they win, 10, 11 games last year? 10, 10, I think. So they, so let's say sauce gardener off the board, absolutely. Right, definitely. Andrew Booth could drop. I saw him at like in the 20s in some, some of these lists. I don't know.

Derek Stingley just ran a 4-3-7 at his pro day. He's off the board at that point. Elam from Florida. I think is probably going to be in the mix there. And then I think Trent McDuffie probably goes earlier. So it depends how the board falls, but they're probably going to have options at 31. Yeah, I think this is a situation

where you just throw a bunch of darts at the dartboard and just hope one sticks. That's usually the approach that teams have taken with defensive facts just because there are so many that play and the performance year to year is so volatile. So I think that makes the most sense. just throw like two or three draft picks at the secondary. And I think you'll find one player that hits if you have a good coach and staff.

I totally agree. That grouping, that just doubling up positions, something that GM does it every couple of years and everyone goes, oh, this makes sense. And then the next year they just abandoned it. Nor are any other teams who want to talk about, bud? Yeah, let's talk about.

So first of all, just last point on the Bengals. I'm with you guys, particularly because they've built on offense through the draft in a way that they haven't done so much on defense. Like so many of their defensive starters were acquisitions through free agency. So in addition to just corner in particular being an area where they need to improve, like you could sort of hear it in the way that they would talk about Jesse Bates and just the need to keep someone who is young and homegrown. like this defense could get old pretty quickly if they don't sort of inject some youth there. So I'm with you.

That's another reason I think a double dip would be a good call there. The other team I want to talk about is the Baltimore Ravens, who I actually think to your point about, okay, very few teams can actually make a significant leap with just one draft, unless it's purely, purely quarterback-driven. But the Ravens are one of those teams where part of this is just they were so injured last season, but partially as a result of that and also partially just because they had some losses that they tend to do every year but are usually better replacing them. I think they have pretty serious edge rusher needs.

This is from our guy, Danny Kelly and the draft guy. they managed just two sacks per game last season, which was tied for the fourth worst in team history, a distinctly unravens-like output. I think, I don't know if Trayvon Walker will be there for them at 14, but if something like that were to happen, I think that's sort of an instant difference maker for the Ravens, particularly because, you know, we're not worried about quarterback, right?

like everyone can use, they could use interior alignment too. Everyone can use more corners. Everyone can use more offensive linemen. But they had, I think, particular issues defensively in the deep middle of the field, which they dealt with in pre-agency. And then I think they had dresher. So I think that's where I would like to see them go in the draft. I want to get to the Ravens here in a second.

I want to go back to the Bengals for 10 seconds. They, like, don't really have any on their roster. They don't really have any corners on the roster at all. Like they actually have to draft like four guys. They've got Ousieh, who obviously was assigned from Dallas. They have Eli Apple was a street free agent. And then they have a guy named John Bannon, who was a street free agent last year. Like this is, I'm looking Jalen Davis,

Mike Hilton obviously is a different category. He's nailed on as a starter. Like this is some wild team building stuff. Ravens. I agree. I compare John Bannon. Oh, never mind. What? John Brannan.

I believe wasn't John... Looks like I was reading up a typo. I also think John Barron maybe was like the alias that Trump used to use on phone calls. That's correct. I'm just saying. Do you have a deeper conspiracy theory then? I'm just saying how we ever... John Brandon character is?

Just ask some questions. Played one game for the Chargers in 2020. So, listen, I'll rooting for you. Routing for you, Johnny. The Ravens. I think that they're going to be really good in 2022. The Lamar contract situation is a completely different bucket. I compared them to the band train and a long analogy that I promised you made sense on

Meena's show yesterday. What? I think what's not what's not to get? You have to explain this. You have to explain it. I will go listen to the pod. I mean, regular listening to a podcast of the New Times podcast. I was listening to a podcast, The Music Manager, a few years ago, and he was talking about

his specialty was just the music industry gives up on artists way too early. So his thing was just signing people who've been given up on by the music industry, but still had a huge fan base. And the example we used was the band Train, which was just completely discarded by the music industry after drops of Jupiter. And then they had another great album. Well, also, like, half of the band quit. Listen, I, this is, now you're showing a little too much knowledge of the band train.

I'm just saying. I love this. I love this. And so what I was saying, saying, I was using it, the analogy I was saying was just that we, I think we sometimes, and this certainly happened, the time with the damn chiefs one time when Lamar Jackson, when Lamar Jackson ascended, we just throw the chiefs. Like, Greg Bishop famously in December of that year literally went to Kansas City to write a, hey, the chiefs are still pretty good story.

Just the narratives move so quickly that I think that sometimes we literally kind of just say, okay, well, Buffalo and Cincinnati and the Chargers and all these teams in the AFC. And it's like, Well, the Ravens still have a really good quarterback, a really good coach. One of the best GM to football. Ozzie Newsom, by the way, is just still there as an advisor. They have an infrastructure that works. They're a franchise that wins more than they lose, just because they know how to approach things.

And I just think that we moved on from them too early as a team that can win the Super Bowl. The Ravens can absolutely win the Super Bowl, and they don't need a ton to go right. Stephen? They were also on my list. and I would have said you're right probably like three months ago about them not needing a lot to go right. But I think with the other teams loading up at the top of the AFC, I do think they have some ground to make up. And I do think they need a good draft in order to make up that ground because it hasn't happened in free agency just yet. The edge, the whole at edge rusher, I think is even bigger now that Martindale's gone, the former defensive coordinator because he was so good at drawing up pressures and didn't really need a stud on.

the edge to win, but now they have a new defensive coordinator, and I think they do need that stud all of a sudden. And at that number 14 pick, better go towards an edge rusher. And I think they have to hit on it in order to keep up with the rest of the contenders in the conference. Any names you want to throw out there? I think Germain Johnson. Okay. Germain Johnson from Florida State makes a lot of sense. He's a big guy. I think he fits with what that defensive system is going to look like. I think it's the Michigan system from last year's college team. I don't know how they're going to adjust it for the pros,

but I'm assuming it's going to be less blitzing, and they're going to need their edge rushers to be a lot more formidable on their own. Right. I think Jermaine Johnson is a very good name. As someone who really hated playing against him in the Florida State Miami game last year, I think that's a name. I think he's probably seen some buzz that maybe he goes off the board in the top 10, but if he's there for the Ravens,

that sounds pretty good to me. Also, I'm fine reaching for any of the Georgia guys. Like, I don't want guys from Georgia's defense on my team. Those guys are athletic, marvels. They know how to play. They understand Kirby's defense, which is, which means they're well coached. Like, I'm in on any and all Georgia guys.

And the big knock against all of them is, oh, it's hard to put them in a box for the NFL. Like, they don't play traditional roles in an NFL defense. But this is where defense is going. And this is what NFL defenses are going to start looking like in the next five years. I think you get out ahead of the curve and you draft these guys early. I agree with you. Also, this is slightly softer than it would be if Martindale are still there.

But like you trust the Ravens to make off pretty well with that. Right. Like there are certainly teams where you go, hope they're used correctly. Hope the team has a plan. But Baltimore is pretty trustworthy with that stuff. Yeah. Last year they just drafted a guy who had zero sacks in his final year in college.

and then they got like almost 10 out of them in his rookie year. So yeah, I agree. You never worry about the Ravens. They know ball. They know ball. They know how to teach ball. You never worry about the Ravens. Any other teams who want to throw out there, guys, are good?

I'm good. I kind of want to put the Patriots on this list. I know they made the playoffs last year. I thought about that. But I think they have a lot of work to do to catch up. And I think they really need to nail this question. Corner would be one. They need a corner.

They got Malcolm Butler, with the Super Bowl hero. they need a corner um i i thought very hard about putting the patrons on the list um but i'm going to pass for right now just because i think that they they're starting from a point where um to get much better would mean contention we already did the patriots talk and i don't want to do it again but that's also like they've just taken so many steps backward like they have so they've created so many holes that a leap at this point almost feels like okay unless mac jones takes a big leap right you're kind of just staying in the same place

All right. We'll be back next week, barring an emergency pod, barring, barring April being canceled as much as June is going to be canceled. Thank you, too, Stefan Anderson for his production of with additional production supporters by Arjuna Ram Football. He's been the Ringer-Ran-Fell show on the Ringer podcast network.