The Ringer NFL Show - The 2019 NFL Draft Roundup | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: April 27, 2019

The winners and losers from the draft, the Josh Rosen trade, the GMs who separated themselves from the rest, the players that went too high, the best value picks, and more. Host: Robert Mays, Kevin Clark Guest: Danny Kelly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Season 8 of Game of Thrones is underway, and you can stay up to date with the ringer staff as we make our way through the final episodes of the series. On the podcast side, listen to Binge Mode Game of Thrones with Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion, the Watch with Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald, and a pre-capable series on the recapables feed

where we'll make predictions on episodes to come. In addition to our Sunday night Twitter after show called Talk with Thrones, our YouTube channel has tons of other Game of Thrones-related content, which you can find at YouTube.com the ringer. And for even more Thrones coverage, head over to the ringer.com. To The Ringer NFL show, I'm Robert Mays. Join me on the other line. It's Kevin Clark and Danny Kelly. It's draft time. I need to address something. Before you got on the line, Mays, Danny and I were

talking about his college football career, and he said that he does not consider himself having played college football because he was only on the roster and didn't play out of respect for the guys who did play, which I find to be the most humble. If I played college football, I'd walk around with a graphic t-shirt that said, I played college football. That's why Danny Kelly is such a great teammate on our team.

That's why we love having him so much. Look, I walked on to the PLU football team my junior year because all my friends were on the team and I thought it would be fun. So I'm not going to go ahead and say I was a football player. I was on the team. I was on like the scout team. I did not know what the hell I was doing.

and it was fun, but I definitely was not a football player. I was just kind of there to hang out. Well, guess what? You're a football analyst now, and we are pretty much done with the NFL draft, and we are going to dig in to everything that has happened since we recorded on Thursday night, which is a lot of stuff. So we're going to hit a few different topics today. I think the first thing we want to do, just full disclosure,

we're recording this at about 410 Central Time, 510 Eastern, as the draft is winding down. So something truly insane happens, just let us know. Send over a raven. The bears are about to make pick 222. Oh, great. It doesn't really matter at this point.

If it's not a kicker, then it's not relevant to me. But we're going to go through the entire draft. We're going to go through which teams we thought it did well, which teams we thought did some things that didn't make a lot of sense. So let's just start with a very simple question. Danny, I'll ask you because you have the most relevant opinion here after watching 600 guys over the last two months. Shots fired. Hey, it's more than me and.

you, buddy, so don't worry about it. In your opinion, Danny Kelly, very simply, which team won the draft? Honestly, probably the Patriots. I think you could make an argument for the Cardinals, being a team that has a chance to be a lot better than they were last year. The Cardinals drafted Kyler Murray first overall

and then grabbed Andy Isabella, Akeem Butler in the fourth, and then Keishon Johnson, I believe in the 6. So they added some really interesting weapons to their passing game. I'm really, really excited about what they're going to be able to do under Cliff Kingsbury. So I think that would be, I mean, I think they have a claim for potentially, like the most impactful one. But I think the Patriots, if you look at what they did, they got Nikiel Harry with their first round pick, who I think is going to be an early impact player for them, at least, as a possession-style receiver.

I really like Joanne Williams, who's a cornerback they got in the second round. I think he could be a starter for them early on in his career. Chase Winovich and the third, Mays, I know you loved him. It's amazing value to get him 77th overall. I thought he was a mid-second round pick at the very least when you consider his production plus his athletic testing, even in a class with a lot of good guys at those positions. Yeah. When they picked him, I was like, yep, that makes sense.

I do want to say I agree from a playmaking standpoint. I was blown away by him, but he's also the perfect patriot in this regard. did you see what he said when he was asked about his meetings with the Patriots? Yeah, he said, I'm not at liberty to say until I get further instruction. I'm waiting instructions on what I'm allowed to say about the last couple of months. He is all in on Patriots, Jim. And then if you add in like Damien Harris, who I think will be a solid running back for them. I like the Yadneika Kjused.

He was a, he kind of fell down, I think, a lot of people's boards, but I really like him as a potential left tackle long term. he could probably play right tackle too, or a guard even. So watch Dante Scarnanick. There was the joke going around on Twitter. Like watch Dante Scarnia turn him into the highest paid tackle in four years from now. We joke about that, but that is the thing. Right? Is that when they take a guy, they took Kjus in the third round,

when they took Froholt, the guard from Arkansas in the fourth. Yeah, yeah. And when you're looking at those picks, my first reaction was, God, the Patriots are the best offensive line in the league last year when you consider the playoffs. Do they really need more offensive line help? And then you look at contracts. you look at the fact that Thuney is probably going to be hitting free agency. I believe after this year,

Marcus Cannon has pretty much no dead money left on his contract after next year. So they're just doing this skarnackier reload that they do all the time. It's like, let's get these guys in the third and fourth round. I believe Marcus Cannon was a fifth round pick. And we'll turn them into way above average offensive linemen here in the next 18 months. And we can just let the other guys walk for market setting contracts. There's a story that Daniel Jeremiah has told in the past about how if you didn't like a lineman coming out, of college as a scout. You always dreaded when they were taken by the Colts. And the reason was

because the Colts were going to make them look and Peyton Manning was going to make them look like really good linemen. And you were going to look like an idiot because he was going to get the ball out quickly and everybody was going to be overrated. And he was also going to tell you where the protections were and all that. Playing for Peyton Manning made you better as a lineman. Dante Scronachia is the same thing. If you get into Dante Scrankega's system, you're going to get a lot better. And so even if you aren't the greatest linemen of all time, Dante Scranke is going to make you look a lot better. If you're a scouter doesn't like a prospect and he goes to the Patriots, that's a real big problem for you, buddy. I think that it's a big problem for you, but I also think

so few guys would be able to turn him, them into the players that he does. Like, Shaq Mason's a perfect example. Shaq Mason just, he was such a good run blocking guard in college. He had traits that were attractive, but he was not a well-rounded player. And then he goes in and with two years with Skarnacki, it's like, oh, he's one of the best five guards in the league. And I just think that their ability to do that kind of skews how good these guys actually are as prospects. For the most part, some of the stuff they do is replicable, but I think the Skarnacki thing is really tough. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I will say that it literally doesn't matter what the Patriots do because they're making the Super Bowl. Yeah, seriously. I thought about that. When I was thinking, when I was looking at their draft a couple hours ago, I was like, you know, none of this actually matters. They're making the Super Bowl. So I don't know.

Good. There's literally no difference between good or bad picks right now. Kevin, who do you think won the draft? All the smart GMs. So let's start with Chris Ballard, who just knocked it out of the part. They were on my list too, for sure. I do want to give a shout out to John Dorsey

because he trades his first round pick for O'Dell Beckham, incredible value. Then he gets Greedy Williams. Someone who we thought may have gone in the mid-first round where they originally were to pick, 17th. He gets him with the 14th pick of the second round. So it's like they didn't miss a beat. I had some reservations about Greedy Williams tackling. I've talked about it on this show.

John Dorsey was asked about that. He said corners are paid to cover, which is as greater rebuttal as possible. Isn't that exactly what I told you on our video, Kevin? Are you John Dorsey? I guess he's my spirit animal, yeah. Sure, he's all of our spirit animal. But back to the Colts.

Rocky Sin, awesome pick. Yeah. Somebody, again, I thought may have been first round value. Ben Ben Ben Ben Benogu, who is just my type of athlete. He's your sort of guy. The Browns obviously got some athletes as well. Paris Campbell, who was my favorite sort of value receiver in the entire draft, I just love what they're doing.

They understand. It is clear to me. And this is a moving target. We talked about the Seahawks a couple of weeks ago as far as just they had that three-year run where they could not miss. They won a Super Bowl off it. They could have won a handful more, right? Right now, the Indianapolis Colts understand the draft better than anybody.

That doesn't last forever. It's a moving target. But right now, when I look at the way Chris Ballard is building his draft, I understand that he's existing in the higher plane. The other shout I kind of want to give here is the Baltimore Ravens. Eric DeCostas first draft as a GM. What I will say, and one of the underrated things here is that Ozzie Newsom is still in the building. Ozzy Newsom was at the owners meetings last month.

Ozzie Newsom's job title is, I think one of the beatwriters asked Eric what Ozum's job title was, and it's literally whatever Ozzy wants to do. That's his job title. And you're dealing with one of the best drafters in history as a guy who's just going to watch tape and help you out. So I think when you take Eric Takast's, you know, sort of a new wave of thinking with with Ozzie Newsom's incredible ability to just hit on linebackers, hit on, hit on the positions. He's always hit on through his entire career. That's a super front office. So he hits on Brown, obviously, who you know quite well, Robert, Jalen Ferguson, and then Miles Boykin

with pick 30 of the third round. That's just that's another guy. And then he comes back in round four and he gets Justice Hill was one of my favorite athletic line, excuse me, running backs. I knew you were going to love that. These three teams, the Browns, the Colts, the Ravens, they've all sort of figured out how to run the draft. And the incredible thing is that they're all in the AFC and the Patriots are still going to the Super Bowl. See, I, this is my problem with just draft analysis right after the fact.

I think that we should give the benefit of the doubt to teams like this. And I think that Ben Ben Beninogu is, when I look at just his athletic profile, that's a guy I would have taken a chance on. But that's really high for a guy who did not really produce that much in college and who positionally may have some issues. The Ravens, they've done so much good stuff in the draft in the last decade or so. But then you look at just how many misses they've had high in the second and third round on pass rushers. I think Jalen Ferguson's a good bet just because the production is off the charts. But it's just tough for me here. For me, it's more interesting.

and I am, this is what I care most about as we sit right here as the draft is winding down. What does this tell us about these teams and what they want? And with the Ravens, that's one of my, it's the draft I'm one of the drafts I'm most intrigued by because they essentially sat there and said, we just want to get athletic as hell on offense. That's all we care about. We are just going to get the most playmakers and the most explosive playmakers possible. I love that. Last year, they built this kind of offense around middle of the field passing with tight ends.

So you're thinking, what kind of. guys do they want? Do they need field stretchers? Do they need outside the numbers guys? And for as fast as Marquise Brown is, as a straight down the field receiver, he does a ton of work underneath. And he's going to be able to take advantage of some of that stuff with Lamar Jackson. Justice Hill seems like a perfect compliment to Mark Ingram in the same way a guy like Alvin Kamara was in New Orleans.

We all loved Miles Boykin, Kevin and I especially, just because you look at the profile, you look at where he went. It's a bet worth making. Well, wait, can I say something real quick about that? we were doing that when we thought DK McCaff was a top 15 pick. Yeah. And I actually think that Metcalf's drop made him a

Boyken, I think, is the same level of athlete as Metcalf, a little different athletic profile, but still an athletic testing miracle. I think that Metcalf actually became a value as the draft went on as you dropped to the point of the comparison between

Boykin and Metcalfe that I've been making the last couple weeks was rendered a little bit moot. So a couple of things I just want mention here before we move on other teams that throw out. I still think there's a chance of Washington. I agree. I agree with that. But I can't start with the smart GMs won the draft and then throw in Daniel Snyder and

Bruce Allen. I mean, Washington, if they get their franchise quarterback at 15 and Montess sweat, there was a lot of noise about a health issue that doesn't exist. That's huge. Another team that just they always, there are two teams that when they make draft picks, I just think those are the guys I would have liked. And over the last few years, that's been the chart. and the Titans.

Yeah. And we talked about Jerry Tillery, and I love that in the first round. Coming back when Nasir Adderly in the second round, being able to pair him with Derwin James eventually when you consider the what the rest of that defense looks. I love that. Pipkins seems like an interesting project at Wright Tackle. They need some help on the outside. So, but then the Titans, like when I watched those first few picks are the Titans.

Jeffrey Simmons is the type of defensive tackle just skill wise. I think really works. I mean, if I compared him to Chris Jones, it's like that's the type of guy you'd want the middle of your defense from what he has just in terms of ability. AJ Brown was maybe my favorite receiver in the whole draft. And he goes in the middle of the second round. Danny, I thought I bet that shocked you. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's a huge value for them. And then it's interesting how he's going to fit with Corey Davis. I don't know exactly as I'm kind of building which guy is going to do what within that offense. I like diversity of skill set among receivers. I think they can be kind of redundant just in terms of physicality. But I think that he's able to do more stuff underneath where I think it's going to work. I just thought they wanted more speed out of that outside receiver that they were looking for because they have, what's his name on the slot now?

They have Tewan Taylor, Tasha Sharp. Humphreys. They have Humphreys. So I thought Brown projected as a slot guy, but they have Humphrey. So I'll be curious to see how they use him. And Nate Davis, the guard that they got from Charlotte, I went back and I watched him a little bit after they did it. I was going to say, you probably liked this guy. And I liked him. I mean, just to drop a guy with that sort of physicality right in the middle of your offense, you lose Josh Klein in the off season.

I think he could start. And again, the last couple of years, I've just looked at the Titans and be like, I like that. I like the moves they're making. And this was just another example. Danny, I will say, before we move on to the quarterback news, which is definitely we're talking about, I don't know what kind of players the Seahawks got.

I mean, obviously, Metcalfe, whatever else. But I will say that this is what you do when you have a $35 million a year quarterback. Yeah. You just get as many possible bites at the apple as you can by trading down, trading down, trading down, and looking for value. There are ways to do this smartly, and the Seahawks are right in the early stages of doing it. They started with, okay, before they traded Frank Clark, they had four picks.

They traded Frank, they got an extra first. They turned those five picks. I think at one point they had like 11 or 12 picks, but they ended up picking 10 times. And I think they've got, I mean, I actually kind of like their draft. I mean, I think Collier's like a high ceiling, physical pass rusher. Oh, you think he has a high ceiling? I thought he was more just a... I meant high floor.

Yeah, I was going to say, that's what I thought of him. He's just the guy that produces, which is good. Those guys are nice. Right, that's sorry. That's what I meant. Okay, I was just confused. When you said something and it was the exact opposite of what I understood, I thought I was in the wrong.

I need to be careful with that. But yeah, I mean, they got D.K. Meccaf at the end of the second. They got Marquis Blare, like a hard hitting safety, which totally fits their sort of personality. Gary Jennings, interesting receiver with a lot of athleticism, super sparked up. Actually, those are two of the top Spark receivers in this class. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean anything,

but obviously they're going for a lot of athleticism. So one other team I want to bring up... Spark is back, baby. Spark is back in Seattle. I want to bring up one more team, though. Go for it, buddy. So I think Jets fans would be mad at us if we didn't. I think the Jets had a really good draft.

Again, I like what the plan was. I think that that tackle they got from USC. I hate drafting tackles on trace. if you're drafting them high. But if you're drafting a guy who's a great mover and is a real specimen at that position,

getting him in the third round, I think that works. They have a spot at right tackle. If he can come along faster than you thought, the example I always uses Turan Armstead. Toronto Armstead was such a project

coming out, but when you get him in the fourth round, that's okay. It's okay to draft projects in the fourth round. And Quinn and Williams, obviously, I mean, that's...

Stud. He falls right into their lap. Who did they draft in this? Oh, they don't have a second round pick. No, they didn't have a second. They grabbed Jekai Polite. in the third. That's right. That's right. And you know how I feel about him. He's just a type of

rusher I love physical, but I mean, obviously he just tanked the process. Yeah, I did not. Whatever the opposite of a testing miracle is, he's back. That's exactly right. But if you can get a guy who was a really good player in the third round and showed that on tape and just happened to be awful in every step of this, that's okay. You can get value out of those players. He's not He wasn't a first round pick. Like, many people thought he was going in. You add in, they got Trouon Wesco, a really, really physical. Who I also love.

Like a badass tight end. I think in the fourth or fifth. Their offense, they added Jameson Crowder. They got Quincy and Una back from injury. Robbie Anderson, I think, is probably going to be on the up and up next year. Got Levi-on-Bel. Christopher Hernon. Chris Hernon, Don.

I don't know how to say his name, Hern-Don. It is a good up-and-coming tight-end. I mean, there's a lot of really interesting players in that offense for Sam Darnold to, like, grow around. I don't know. I'm kind of like actually getting a little excited about the Jets. I think the interior, their offensive line is questionable. And I would like to see if there's a chance that Adoga, I don't know how to pronounce it, can somehow win that job on the right side over Brandon Schell.

I mean, if they can get a couple just hits in places we didn't expect, it could be a really fun offense. I have one more point to make. And it goes back to a little bit to the Ravens, but a couple of these other teams. I heard a nugget on the NFL network I was sort of fascinated by, which is that, Eric Acosta says that one of the benefits of running the offense they're going to with Lamar Jackson and that offense they did run last year is that they can draft completely differently than every other team. They're running a different system. They're not after the same target.

He essentially said that their draft board is going to be completely different from everybody else. And I think that that's a really fascinating thing to watch as there's a little more maybe homogenous offense around the league, guys running that sort of McVeigh-Shannahan system, which is now everywhere. I actually asked Matt LaFleur about this a couple weeks ago, and he didn't really know what I was talking about. But I just think that there's going to be real value in the teams that Zig will everybody else tags or vice versa. As just as far as obviously the running game is what it is.

The passing game is the most important thing. But I think if you're doing a little bit different things on offense, you're going to succeed in the draft game because you're just going after different guys. Passing efficiency will always be the most important thing, but finding with different wrinkles in that and building a draft board around. it'll be very fascinating for a couple teams next couple years. That's probably true, but I also think that was way more, it was way more relevant last year with the guys they took than this year.

Like, Marquis Brown is just going to work. With the Ravens. Yeah, with the Ravens. Oh, yeah. No, no, I'm just, I'm talking about someone like Hill out of Oklahoma State. I mean, I just, obviously Marquis Brown would, would, would work in any offense. He's not a, he's not a, he's, they didn't bring him into run block. Yeah, exactly.

So I think that a lot of those guys are going to do some stuff that you'd want. I think that Boykin's the same way. But that's why I thought those picks were just so worth looking at and worth analyzing. They don't fit necessarily what they were doing last year. So what that offense is going to look like and how they evolve from what they were last year to this season, I think is going to be really cool to watch. Well, they also took Trace McSorley, which is essentially doubling down to what they're currently doing. At quarterback, yes.

Yep. All right. Let's chat about the couple of quarterbacks that went high off the board and then a couple guys, maybe a little bit further down the draft that you thought were interested. D.K. So let's start with the Josh Rosen trade, which Miami was such a cool case about what they were going to do and about approach in this draft. Were they going to reach for a quarterback? Were they going to kind of sit there and let the draft come to them and say, we're going to do this next year? And what I love about the Rosen trade, Kevin, is that by doing this, you're getting

value for Rosen at the end of the second round, and this doesn't preclude you from going and getting to if you have the first overall. pick next year. And that's why I just don't know why more teams weren't willing to do this at 60 or 62 or whatever to jump ahead of a team like Miami because it doesn't stop you from doing anything to make this to go at you talked about this with Rosen and Kyler. The idea of having these guys and be able to try to try out as many of them as you can to find the right one, I just think it makes so much sense for the dolphins to be the team who did this. It's incredible value from the dolphins. And I almost mentioned the Dolphins is a team that won the draft

because we see that they have a plan. And it's funny to me because we talked about all these teams that were flexibly want to trade down or they're coming out and linking that they want to trade down before the draft. The Miami Dolphins lived it and they waited and they have patience. They did not trade the 48th pick. Instead

they traded out, got more picks, and then traded the 62nd pick. And they just, they understand value. And it's kind of funny to me because there were a couple of teams that mentioned or seemed to have mentioned Astro Ball, which may, as you just read. And I just think that there's a, there's a lot of teams. I mean, Moneyball was the book for, you know, 15, 16 years. I think

the Astro ball is going to be the, the, Eric DeCosta actually said it, I think. I saw that on Twitter going forward. And I think that there's teams like the Miami Dolphins who just have a plan and are going to stick with it. And that's how you get out of mediocrity. The Miami Dolphins haven't even that bad the last 20 years. They've just been insanely mediocre. And the way to go from average to good and then great is to have a plan and stick with it. That's the commonality between every single team that's had improvement, especially of the CBA era, is just understanding what football is and hammering that home and building a franchise around it. I'm saying having a plan, but occasionally having that plan be kind of extreme. That's okay.

That is the way to be not be mediocre. What I'm saying is that value is the only constant that make, and when you can get someone like Josh Rosen, who the Cardinals already gave, the big money to they're getting him for $6.3 million over the next three years for a top 10 pick you are think about it this way you are literally taking a flyer on a top 10 quarterback when do you ever get to do that it's it's baffles me that more teams weren't willing to do this because that's exactly right it's it's such a low value proposition at the most important in professional sports. And when you can do that,

you can marry those two things together. It's just something that every franchise should be thinking about doing. For God's sake, I just saw a quote, did you see what Bruce Arien said about James Winston? No. They said, what's the improvement plan for James?

He said, well, I want him to stop throwing it to the other team. Okay. Instead of giving quotes like that and throwing James Winston out there, where the hell were the bucks on this? See, that's... I'm just saying there's 10 teams where I'm just like, why?

Why not? Why not? The bucks are in that to me, but there's an optics thing in play with a first year coach, with the guy you picked first overall. I think that I understand. We have to protect James Winston? I wouldn't care. But I think that that's probably the thought process in that building.

There's, that's the personality management side of it. When you bring in a head coach, it's his first year. It's a guy you're trying to possibly get the most out of you ever have. I can get that even though I wouldn't have made the same decision. There's like 20 guys. I'm the fact that there wasn't a bidding war over Josh Rosen says so. When it gets to pick 62 and he's still available, the fact there wasn't a bigger bidding war is outrageous.

If you're Cincinnati, why not? Who cares? They got Ryan Finley. No, I know they got Ryan Finley after that in the fourth round. kidding. What I'm saying is at that point in the second round, okay, maybe Andy Dalton's the future. Maybe he's not. You're in, so you have a new head coach. You don't know what your system's going to be. Let's get Josh Rose in the building. See what happens. Yeah. All right, Danny. Let's talk about the other quarterback here because you may be shocked by this, but I really like the Broncos getting Drew Locke in the second round.

I don't know how you feel about it. I actually do too. Yeah, no, it's good. Oh, look at that. Kevin. He's a convert. Well, you said he should be a top. You said you'd take him in the top 10. I probably would have. Daniel Jones went sixth overall. I mocked him in the top 10. What I'm saying is I don't like him as the 10th pick. I like him as the, whatever, the 39th pick.

It's nice. For them to get him in the second round is pretty great. I mean, this is almost the same discussion as the Rosen thing. Because like you're getting a guy, it's a flyer on what could have been a top, a first round pick in the second round. I think they both have different skill sets, but I think Locke has the upside,

you know, that cool upside or whatever, like strong arm and all the tools to develop into a starter. And he's getting into a situation where the team didn't have to move up for him and like, it's not going to put quite as much pressure on him to start right away. There's, there's, it's a lot of good, it's like a good scenario for him, I think, because, you know, they're getting a new offensive coordinator in there. They're going to install a new system. He's probably going to sit behind Flacco for a year. Flacco's probably not going to help him a whole lot, but it'll be good to be in the building, you know.

And so, I don't know. I think it's a good situation for him. I really liked just the Broncos draft in general because... They had a good draft. By moving down, I mean, this is just... I think this is the way that you really play this well. They didn't have the pick they used to draft lock originally. That was not their pick.

So they trade from 10 to 20. They get Noah Fant. They take Dalton Rizner with the 41st pick. Danny, you and I both love. Yeah. And I think he has a chance to come in day one and be their starting right guard. And if they can get something out of McGovern in year two, and you have Leary, I mean, Bowles is obviously a question.

on the left side, but you draft him in the first round, you just stick with him. The page Juan James, you can remake your offensive line pretty quickly with the moves they've made if you can get a little bit of improvement at left tackle. And then you bring in Fant, as somebody guy they desperately need it as a playmaker. We talked about them as a past catching tight end destination before the draft started. And then to trade the 52nd pick, which you got from Pittsburgh to move down 10 spots to go up and get Drew Locke, that in the first 42 picks of the draft is a way to completely remake your offense over the next two years.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, they had to trade up, but that is such a small cost to get a potential starting quarterback. I mean, obviously, you know, second round quarterbacks are, it's rare for a second round quarterback to start, but... You can count them on one hand

that have actually been quality starters for any period of time. I kind of feel like Locke should have been a first rounder, though. He should have been the Daniel Jones pick. Daniel Jones should not have been a first rounder. He should not have been a high pick unless it's the same draft that Daniel Jones goes six overall. Right. Daniel Jones has completely reset my notion of value in football.

This is what I would, I mean, if we're going to play with the quarterback values, Dwayne Haskins should have gone sixth overall. And then Washington should have taken Drew Locke at 15. That's how it should have gone. If six, if Daniel Jones is number six, then Dwayne Haskin should have gone number two. Yeah, that's probably, I mean, that's not crazy. It's even probably should have traded up for Dwayne. Askins to two if there was a market.

But there wasn't. And that was the weirdest part of the first round. My wife does not know anything about football. If anybody but Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers standing in front of them, she'd have no idea who they were. She probably doesn't know who won the Super Bowl. She called me on Friday and was like, what? I'm hearing all this stuff.

What did the Giants do? That's where the giants are at right now. That's not great. Danny, were there any of the quarterbacks that went a little bit later that caught your eye, whether because you thought they should have gone higher, just the landing spot, you feel like they're going to get an opportunity pretty quick. So one landing spot that I think is super fascinating,

I don't know if I necessarily agree with it, but Will Greer going to the Panthers in round three? See, I like that because they needed a backup quarterback. You saw how far they fell off. The last time they drafted a quarterback was 2011. They really fell off. I mean, they were kind of just holding that spot together with duct tape,

and they needed somebody that was just a tolerable option there. And they did not have that last year. And I also think with Camph, his health. The third round is not too high to draft a quarterback. And he's a guy that people liked. I would never have drafted him in the first round. I thought he was a backup. But I think this is a good spot for him to be your backup. I like just the elements involved here. Are you, are either of you worried now about Cam Newton's health? It makes me worried a little bit. I think it's probably more like just an injury insurance thing. That's kind of where I'm thinking too. During the year.

But yeah. That's what I'm thinking too. But I do think they really need it to bolster that spot. You don't want Derek Anderson starting anymore. Well, he's not even there anymore. He's not there anymore. It's just a parade of guys who've never heard of. It was Garrett Gilbert. Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean.

I just meant like a generic whatever backup. I have some horrible news, Danny. Derek Anderson would have been a good option relative to what they actually ended up starting. Is there anybody else in this conversation? The Washington State guy went to Jacksonville, which I think is really smart. I mean, who knows? I mean, Foles is not young. I mean, it's just a flyer on a guy who was super productive in college.

The guy from Northwestern, I don't know any of these guys names. The quarterback from Northwestern went to Philadelphia to kind of take on that backup role. It just seems like a lot of logical quarterback decisions were made outside of the Daniel Jones trade or the Daniel Jones pick. The one that I think will be interesting to monitor longer term is Easton Stick. I was going to say, well, that too, actually. Oh, stick, yeah. Easton Stick in L.A. and with the Chargers and then, you know, who's going to trade for? for Stidham in a few years for a second or another.

Yeah, exactly. What team is Stidim signing a $52 million guarantee to deal with? Yeah. All right, let's get to some guys who were taking a little bit higher in the draft. Danny, I want to know, as you dug into your top 100 and you kind of found guys you loved, guys you would have kind of planned a flag with, who were you just shocked to see fall down the board as far as they did? So that's twofold.

Number one, I think the first shocking one was Hakeem Butler. Yeah. But at the same time, we knew that the NFL was much lower on him. I mean, we talked about that before. Like, it was clear that I think, you know, draft Twitter and draft analysts were a little bit higher on him than I think the NFL actually was. And so it wasn't super surprising. He was the first pick of the fourth round. That was much lower than I expected.

The one that was more shocking to me was Kelvin Harmon falling into, I think it was the sixth or seventh round. he to me was a higher floor guy, just in the sense that he's very physical, big. He's not that different, honestly, from Nikiel Harry. And so to see him fall that far, I mean, he ran a 4-6, that's probably a big part of it, and he didn't separate that well. But, like, that to me was, like, the most shocking thing.

I think the Redskins getting him that late is going to be, it's at least certainly a great value, a good spot to take a flyer on a guy like that because I had him ranked way higher. I had him ranked in like the 30s. So him falling that far was to me the biggest surprise. So you're saying the Bears did not do well

by drafting Riley Ridley instead of Calvin Harmon two rounds earlier? I mean, I would have had them do Harmon, but Ridley is a different style of player. Ridley is like a master of the underneath routes. I don't know. Is that something that you think the Bears need? Because he's a very...

I'm just to be curious how those snaps kind of... If he ends up becoming a guy that they feel like they can get into the rotation this year, I'll be curious to see how the snaps eventually play out because Taylor Gabriel does what Taylor Gabriel does. He was somebody that they used a lot and that's the gadgety way and kind of exploiting that area,

not even as much straight down the field as you would assume. But Anthony Miller is probably going to be in the slot this year. I'm fine with it because who knows what's going to happen with Gabriel. His contract has really no guaranteed money after this season. It's as much for the future as anything.

But if Riley really does somehow break in to the starting line, not to the starting lineup, but to a place where he deserves snaps, I'll just be curious to see how it eventually falls. Right. He's a good route runner who's very good at comeback routes, hook routes, and things over the middle. He'll be like a possession style guy for them. He's nothing special or flashy or whatever, but I don't know.

I guess I can kind of see why they liked him. But yeah, to me, Harmon falling that far was very shocking. Another guy that we expected to possibly go in the top 10, he fell. We talked about a little bit on Thursday night, most likely based on health. But Joanne Taylor going to Jacksonville, and we had him as possible. going to Jacksonville at number seven overall. I think I did. I mocked him to Jacksonville, my final mock. So they got him eventually.

To get him a whole round later, it just feels if he's healthy, that could be a great value for them. At a position of desperate need. He fits their style like a glove too. He's like very physical kind of like a brawler type guy.

They're obviously going to still try and run the ball a ton, I'm sure. And so it's, man, that's such a perfect fit for them. It's such a great value. People were talking about. This reminds you of the season when they got the linebacker from UCLA in the second round after everyone. Yeah.

Everyone thought he was going to be like the third pick or something like. Then he was like I think I'm at, he told the media, I think he won't have micro fracture surgery. Yeah. Which again, don't. Don't do that. Don't do it. Don't do it.

Whenever, whenever you're a prospect, it's two days we have to be in draft and thinking about telling the reporter that you think you're going to have microchurchase, you think you're going to have micro fracture surgery, I advise against it. There's a side business for you as a draft advisor. You can just tell every guy that. That would be your role. I just, it just me texting everyone saying, everybody shut it down. Calm down. No microfactor interviews. Anybody else, D.K., or is that pretty much the guys you? That fell like that fell further. I'm Byron Murphy. Byron Murphy falling into the second round, I think was not shocking, but I was pretty surprised to see it. In fact, the whole cornerback group falling.

so far was a little bit surprising. I think the Cardinals got a freaking steal getting him with 33. I think he's going to be like a good player for them. You know, obviously, I don't know what the future is with Patrick Peterson there, but like having him across from Peterson or sometimes in the slot, I think could be really cool for them. Even outside of that, I was taught, I tweeted this when it happened. I just think that this is such an underrated part of why, when got, why guys succeed and

why guys fail. Landing in a position group room with Patrick Peterson, having him teach you how to play cornerback in the NFL is a really good route to be successful as an NFL cornerback. It's a good thing. What were you going to say, Kevin? I was going to say, we're in year three of just like every like two months, there's a report he's about to be traded. I know.

No one is about to be traded more often than Patrick Peterson. That's so true. Every, like, what am I supposed to, is this the time? Like, what if this happened this week, it's like someone, I think it was, uh, Flory or somebody tweeted like, something's up and, and with Patrick Peterson. And it's like, no, no, it's never been out. Nothing has ever been up with Patrick Peterson. Danny, what did you think about D.K. Metcalf?

So I think, you know, obviously, I like the pick personally. I think it fits the Seahawks scheme. It's bad for fantasy people who are expecting him to be a big fantasy guy because he's going to be playing a role in that offense. He's an elite. I think he'll have a chance to be an elite. He was an elite deep pass catcher in college. He could be an elite pass catcher in the offense and the Seahawks offense.

And so, I mean, he's got like just crazy speed off. the line of scrimmage, good footwork to get off press and things like that. Huge catch radius. I think with Russell Wilson's ability to like thread the needle down the sideline, that's a good match for them. Yeah. It was a bit... I totally agree. Yeah.

So it was a good... It was very surprising to see him go that late. I thought he was going to probably get scooped up in the 30s somewhere. So it was a bit surprising to see him fall, but it wasn't like a huge, huge fall necessarily. I'm just thinking of what Russell Wilson has been able to do with guys like David Moore. And then I think about what I do like, David Moore is fine. Drag him, Danny.

Drag him, get him. David Moore has been very productive, much more productive than anyone would have thought. My bit is that David Moore is going to be a superstar. He's definitely not good. To drop a guy with D.K. Metcalf's straight line speed and frame and physical profile into that spot opposite. Tyler Lockett's just like, all right, I could get behind this.

This works for me. The other thing is like, if you got, lock it on one side and D.K. Metcalf on another side. How many teams are going to want to run a single high look against you? Zero. And they're just going to, this is the plan, Danny. This is the whole thing all along. Now they can run it 45 times every game.

So, yeah, my point like you alluded to is that it's going to make things easier in theory for the Seahawks to run, which is what they want to do. Yeah, baby. This is the ultimate Seahawks plan. Let's draft the best pass catchers available. and use them to run the ball better. Oh, my God. Seahawks Galaxy Brain.

D.K. Metcalf is so intimidating. You're going to be able to run the ball really easily. I mean, this is the whole thing. It just sets up perfectly. He's probably a great run blocker. Unbelievable. No, so I've mentioned this before. Like the Seahawks, if they're going to do the philosophy that they want to do,

which is to run the ball and throw the ball deep, right? That's the crux of their offense for the most part. It was, to me, to me, it was giving. be very hard for them to be that efficient next year as they were last year because, I mean, like Russell Wilson was perfect pass rating to Tyler Locke last season. He had 10 touchdowns. Like, do you think that's going to happen again? Or is it more likely they're going to have some huge regression in that area? I think getting D.K. Metcalf gives them another, you know, very potentially, very dangerous downfield threat. He's not a complete product at this point, obviously. He's probably

not going to help him a ton on like third downs and stuff like that. But he has the chance to be that, stretch the field type of guy that could, you know, help open things up and help them keep that efficiency, I think. I don't know if he's going to be the star. He might have only like 20, 30 catches. That would be like, I'd be fine with that. But I think that's kind of like what they're looking for. Schematically, it's a perfect fit. As soon as I saw it, I was like, yep, that makes, that's exactly what I started it again. Schematically, it's a perfect fit. The first time I saw it, I was like, yep, that's right. Those are the types of guys they like. It's exactly what they want. They've been trying to get these guys forever.

I mean, they had like T.O. in. They had Brandon Marshall. Get a young guy finally. All right. So before we get out of here, let's talk about some team specific plans that maybe you didn't love. Maybe they weren't teams that you feel like won the draft. But some that kind of raised some questions for you.

I'm going to start because you guys talked about the Cardinals and how much you like their draft. And I think there are elements to like. But I also look at the Cardinals and where they struggled last year. And that was on the offensive line. I want to distance myself from that take. Oh, well, Danny said he liked the draft, the Cardinals draft. So I'm looking at it.

It's the sexiest. It's very sexy. And Andy Isabella has great speed, Akim Butler. It seems like they're just getting all these shiny toys and forgetting the fact that they couldn't block anybody last year. And I know they traded for Marcus Gilbert. I know the hope is that they're more, they're healthy on the offensive line. And that's the biggest problem they had a year ago.

But I still am shocked by the fact that they didn't. address it until later in the draft, considering how much of an issue it was last year. So I don't know if it's a bad plan necessarily. It's definitely a plan that made me raise an eyebrow, though. Danny, is there one that was like that for you? There's a couple. I still don't necessarily see like a cohesive plan with what the lions are doing.

You know, taking Hawkinson, I think is going to be a good player for them. They grabbed another linebacker, you know. To me, like, just it didn't, I didn't see, I guess, like a specific plan in their draft. It wasn't necessarily like they totally flopped or anything, but I just can't find myself getting too excited about that. What did you feel? So the Vikings, to me, are an interesting one because I love Garrett Bradbury.

He's very good. But their first four picks were like, let's get better at running the ball. Like they're doing what the Seahawks did last year, it feels like. Oh, see, I don't mind it. I think that they really needed to hammer the interior of the offensive line. I think it was the most important area. Even beyond Bradbury, I think they needed up another body. there.

Yeah, they got Drew Samia in the 4th. And I like him. I went back and watched him today because it seemed like he was somebody that fits that Kubiak system. I think Pat Elfline, his health is a question mark that he was never the same after breaking that leg. And to have depth at those spots, I think that last year really scarred them with how bad you can get that quickly when you don't have depth at those positions.

So I don't mind it. And I think Irv Smith gives them what they want in terms of flexibility. Though two tight end sets in that system, it's not surprising to me. So those picks make sense. The team that I was, oh, go ahead, Kevin. I was going to say that I don't know if you guys saw the clip, but there was a sort of a reaction shot of the Vikings taking an interior alignment and the fans were just freaking out like they just won the Super Bowl.

Oh, I'm sure they're so happy. And it's kind of like 99% of the time they, it was literally a guy dressed like face paint, everything had the Vikings helmet and he was like they just won the Super Bowl. And 99% of the time when you draft an interior alignment or even a tackle or anybody, he was not a skill position guy. There was kind of that sort of clap and it takes 20 seconds for them to Google who it is.

This was just pure elation that we finally solved some interior line problems. Another just overall plan that made me scratch my head a little bit was the 49ers. Yeah, I was going to put them to actually. It's beyond the punter.

We can get to the punter if we want. That's a whole different conversation. For me, it's more so looking at their roster, Remember when the 49ers were going to get Earl Thomas? That was the idea. It's like they need so much secondary help. Like they're definitely, that's the team for Earl Thomas.

So instead of addressing the secondary really at any position or at any position in the off season outside of a fly around Jason Verrett who hasn't played more than two games in like five years, they did nothing. They did absolutely nothing. They're just rolling with the same guys. And they drafted Debo Samuel in the second, which fine. If they needed another pass catcher, it was a position of need. We all thought that.

and then they drafted Jalen Hurd in the third round. What is Jalen Hurd in the NFL? Is he going to be more of that kind of hybrid player? He's going to play some running back. Didn't they just sign two running backs to free agent contracts? It just seems like with the way their roster is organized right now, trying to stockpile more playmakers on offense was not the direction they needed to go.

An all-around playmaker or whatever he's going to be. They've said he's going to be a receiver first and foremost, but they're going to try them out on like, you know, tight end and running back and all that. Like that kind of player, I feel like, is more like a day three type thing. That's my thought. Especially when you have needs elsewhere.

Yeah. So that was a little bit of a head scratcher. It's exciting. You know, it's like fun to think about, but is it really exactly what they need right now? I guarantee you, their logic is we brought in D-Ford and Nick Bosa. That's how we're going to get better on the back end.

I promise you that's what they're thinking. But I just don't necessarily. buy that as a smart way to build your team. I think that's fair. That's definitely fair. Kevin, is there anybody that kind of stuck out to you where you just weren't really sure what was going on? The New York Giants. Yeah. Outside of the New York Giants.

Do we want to pile on them again? No, I would say this about the Giants and the Raiders. I mean, I just, I don't know. I didn't change my mind on either of those situations. The one thing we do know. Really? I feel like you would have loved the Raiders like back half of their draft. All they did was draft crazy athletes.

No, no, I understand that. But they had a real opportunity to remake their franchise. And I just, I'm so discouraged with, because I really did think there was a chance that John Gruden's whole sort of public schick was just a schick. And we saw a little bit of the fact that it's real. Neither of the giants nor the Raiders seem to understand value.

they don't understand playing the board. I think what's really fascinating is, you know, I saw an analysis a couple weeks ago that a lot of teams think that picks maybe 60, excuse me, 20 through 60, there were really bunched up together. And then this was a very deep draft in that way. And then it was hard to decipher

between the 25th best player and the 59th best player. And that sometimes happens. But this one was particularly like that. And I think when you get into this, that you start to realize how important value is and how important it is to trade back 10 slots or really only get the guy you can only get here. And what I find fascinating about watching this draft in particular is really there's two NFLs.

And I think as we get more information on how teams win on how the game should be played, there seems to be, it almost reminds me of baseball in like 2007, something like that, where even if you don't go all in on data, which some teams didn't do. And so one, we certainly know how the game is played now and how it should be played. And it seems to me like there are maybe five, six, seven teams that just are all out on the way the modern game is going. And that includes value. And that's why I'm really fascinated to see the next couple of years whether or now we still have these drafts where teams clearly don't understand value and take a guy like Farrell at four. or take a guy like Daniel Jones at six.

I think that the two NFLs is the thing to watch next four or five drafts. But how do we know that a team didn't value Cleland Ferrell at seven or eight? I mean, Danny thought he was the sixth best player in the draft. It just seems like pass rusher, if you think he's the guy, I don't mind taking him at four. The Josh Jacob thinks Josh Jacobs thing is indefensible. But outside of that, it seems like they drafted positions that they needed. They drafted players that more or less were supposed to be available in that range. And then when they got later in the draft, they just,

rolled the dice on crazy athletes. I mean, to get Isaiah Johnson and a guy with that profile with a hundred and 29th pick, I can't be mad at that. And Max Crosby is a similar kind of deal. I mean, it's, I like Crosby. I mean, those are guys that, I think that's what you're supposed to chase later in the draft is just traits. And that's what they did. And you trade, in my opinion, you do two things. You traits or you chase production. You don't have to marry them the way you do earlier in the draft. And with Crosby and Johnson, it's just traits. And with Hunter Renfro, it's just production. Okay. So I don't really. Let me ask you a question.

Let me ask you a question. They have three first round picks this year. Okay. They go past rusher, running back safety. They have Derek Carr quarterback still. They have the guys. They've gotten rid of Colomack. They've gotten rid of Mario Cooper.

What is the earliest year that they will compete? I think that's more of a problem with Derek Carr, to me, that it is anything. But they had the fourth pick in the draft. They had an opportunity to address quarterback. I didn't want to do that. Yeah, okay. But what I'm saying is they got rid of their two of their, probably two of best players, the two best players in last year. And this draft, the one where they had three

first round picks, I don't see a path forward for them even after that. If you have three first round picks, if you have two first round picks, you need to come away feeling better than you did a week ago. I don't think the Giants or the Raiders did that. Running back in safety. I think the Raiders disagree with you. I think that in their opinion, I think they remade their franchise. Whether that's correct or not, I absolutely think they feel that way. I can't wait to see elite athlete Hunter Renfro. I did that story a couple days ago. Montez sweat was two and a half miles per hour

faster than Hunter Renfro. Hunter Renfro moved 16 miles per hour at top speed. That's Danny Kelly numbers. Danny, what school did you go to again, Danny? Phil U. Pacific Lutheran. Yeah. Whatever that is, you ran 16 miles per hour

at some point during your college football days. Hunter Renfro, not an athlete. I'll just say I don't think Danny Kelly was catching passes in the national championship game. That's all I'll say. By the way, did you see all the guys from national title game that John Gruden drafted? That's pretty funny. That was hilarious.

Loves the Clemson from Clemson. He had a great game. Josh Jacobs from Alabama and obviously Farrell from Clemson. So literally John Gruden watched one college football game and was like, I hear the five best players I saw tonight. And the hand of the list of Mike Mayock and then fired all his scouts. one draft we have not discussed that I want to bring up here. First of all, it's a pick that kind of just made me

stand up and take notice. And second of all, the draft overall, I thought was actually pretty interesting was the Rams. And by taking Henderson in the third round, I'm not sure what that tells us about Todd Gurley's future or his health. Tell me how to feel about this, Robert.

Because does this mean Gurley's like done? That's like the big question. I don't think it means he's done, but it's definitely an insurance policy. And it's an insurance policy to me that is a perfect fit. I mean, that guy in that offense, oh boy. Even if Tiger really is healthy and you're trying to limit his touches, I just think this is a way for them to get even more explosive in that area of their offense.

And that was hard for me to imagine. When you watch Henderson on outside zone runs where he's just taking one cut and getting downhill. It's nasty. It's perfect. I would have liked him in a shotgun offense, but this is fine. This totally works. I love his ability. And it's not even just the decisiveness because we see a lot of that with one cutbacks.

It's just the ability to understand spacing and understand where a defense is going. Vision. It means the simple way to explain it. But there are times where he's kind of joystick where he'll put his foot in the ground and be able to change direction in this really decisive, explosive sudden way. I just think it's a perfect fit. And then elsewhere in the draft for them, I think they just got really quality, productive, defensive backs, a couple different.

in spots. I mean, to get Taylor wrap that late, David Long, again, positions, they really need some help at. So I just thought that their draft overall was a good draft, all things considered. The Henderson pick was just kind of one that made me take notice. Yeah. I mean, I look down, I look down the list of players that they got. And I'm not going to say that either Evans or David Edwards is the tackle they got in the fifth round. Both of those guys for a long time during the season last year were like talked about as potential, like,

early round picks. Now, David Edwards never lived up to that hype, but I mean, they both, they got a couple of very good, like, higher potential tackles. Greg Gaines is like one of the top run defenders in the draft. I mean, that's not sexy, but it's going to be like, it's going to add to that already good defensive line. David Long, I know some people were talking about him as like an early second rounder. He fell into the third round. Same thing that happened with rap. I mean, rap was like talked about as a first rounder. Yeah. Exactly. So I think that that's, they got good value of positions they needed players. And again, the Henderson thing is definitely the highlight stealer of that draft,

but I think the quieter parts of that draft are some to look at as well. Absolutely. All right. Anything else, guys? Anything else to wrap up the 2019 NFL draft? That's a good question. I mean, there's just so much to take in right now. We're trying to pare it down as much as possible.

I mean, when you're talking about 250 guys and going a lot of different directions. We're going to do a binge mode of the draft. We're just going to take by the way. Yeah, we just have like 25 episodes to go through. every single one. Yeah. No, it was fun,

man. Very, very fun weekend. Danny, just one more time before draft season officially ends. Thanks for fucking killing

it, buddy. You absolutely crushed it over the last couple months. Thanks for making our jobs easier. Thanks for making the site better. If you have not gone back and read every single bit of Danny Kelly's draft coverage, it is not irrelevant because you can see what a very smart person thought about

some of these picks down the draft and whether you should be happy about them. So go check it out. a former college football player. That's exactly right. All right, guys, that's all we have for the draft. We'll be back at some point. It's pretty much the off season now. Yeah, it's crazy.

We're through everything important. But until then, as always, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. We'll talk to you soon.