The Ringer NFL Show - The Alex Smith Ripple Effect | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 347)

Episode Date: November 19, 2018

Alex Smith’s season-ending injury leaves the door wide open in the NFC East, the Bears are starting to look like the 2017 Jaguars 2.0, and Lamar Jackson has sparked an exciting new era in Baltimore (1:15). Plus, Jon Gruden and Derek Carr’s tiff, the Condoleezza Rice rumor in Cleveland, and the Rams-Chiefs mega matchup on Monday night (51:00). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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vodka today, and remember to always drink responsibly. Thanksgiving. It's a time of giving and getting football whenever you want. Okay, it's not really about getting football whenever you want, but the Yahoo Sports mobile app is. With it, you can watch live local and primetime NFL games right on your phone. If you're traveling to visit family for the holiday and you're dying to see the game, no problem.

Just download the Yahoo Sports app and start watching. Never miss big NFL matchups. or your favorite team in action. Yahoo Sports app is your ticket to NFL football during Thanksgiving and all season long. To the Ringer NFL show, I'm Robert Mays, joined, as always, by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing, buddy? So the day starts with the Condoleez-Rice rumor ends with unbelievable Bears hype. What a day in football, Robert Mays.

I'm way more interested in one of those than the other. I'll be honest with you. Well, you went to the game. I was there. I just got home from Social Series. We get into the big picture implications here. Give us your impressions of the game. It was exciting.

It was exciting on the walk up. I haven't been there in I think eight years for various reasons. I didn't live in Chicago for a while. You haven't been to a Bears game in Chicago in eight years? Think of when I would have gone. I lived in L.A. from 2011 through 2015. I was never there. I'm sorry.

You know what I forgot? You know what I forgot is they haven't played a big game in decades. Yes. And when I was home, they would never be. franchise or an irrelevant franchise sorry it's trust me they've been irrelevant i mean they were relevant like 2012 they've been decent in recent years it's just that i didn't live at home then and then when i did live at home they were absolutely terrible so it's been there was the first time in eight years it was very cool and this was an odd game i you know part of me there was a certain letdown at the end just

because they'd fighting scored two touchdowns and the aragon kind of got let out of the building but you know there was definitely a moment there when parky hit that field gover was like, the bears are seven to three, the bears are in first place. This is pretty cool. And I think the defense is as real as you can be as a defense in 2018. And we'll get into what that means. But that unit overall is so damn good. I mean, you throw out whatever numbers cousins had at the end.

Almost all of it came in the fourth quarter in garbage time when the game was already decided yardage points, however you want to calculate it. The bears dominated that game on that side of the ball. the Mac trade is just ridiculous. I mean, it's hard to calculate. It's hard to even express what he's been for that unit. Chubisky had a terrible game, but it's not necessarily surprising against that defense.

I know the Vikings have been up and down, but Mike Zimmer is the type of guy that can torture a dude with, I don't know, 15 career starts. Sure. It certainly has some ping pong to his game, you know, back and forth. So, yeah, it's fun. The Bears are 7 and 3 and 4. football is relevant in the city of Chicago again.

I don't know what it means in the long run, but I do know that I'm in a pretty damn good mood about it right now. Sure. So there's a couple of things. Number one, I kind of feel like, and this is something I want to get into maybe later this week, but I kind of feel like everyone in that second tier is doing this for their own entertainment.

Neither of these teams are going to break into the best two teams in the NFC. This is all sort of for the future, kind of see what you have, print some T-shirts kind of thing. but this isn't really going to have big picture implications. Having said that, I love what the Bears are doing. I was surprised. I think both of us think this is probably a year early. You know, Zach Moore, who does a great job with some of the salary cap stuff, tweeted this out. And I thought it was really interesting to think about because Trubisky is not Carson Wentz,

and he's certainly not Russell Wilson. But the point he made was that their, strategy wise, what Ryan Pace did was he took the extra money on the rookie contract and he created a constant pass rush. That was his phrase. And what that means is a rotation. It means more than three or four boot chip guys. You know, they can create pass rush from anywhere. Eddie Jackson has four touchdowns since entering the league in 2017. No other player in the league has more than two defensive touchdowns.

Okay. And Eddie Jackson is a really good safety. But when you're scoring defensive touchdowns, that means you are getting after the quarterback all the time. And it's going up in the air. and Eddie Jackson's coming down with it 20 yards later to score a touchdown. When you read the tea leaves, there's all sorts of numbers like that. So I was hugely impressed with what they were able to do.

I agree with you. The air probably came out of that building at the end because the narrative of sort of the new monsters in Midway kind of went away because they scored 20 points. But I think generally this is something you can really build on. You know, again, long term, Trubisky is not to the level of the other rookie quarterbacks who've won Super Bowl. So I think this is a little bit of a different situation. You know, offensively, they were doing just enough. I mean, this is not, let's be clear, as much as this is not the 2017 Eagles and not the 2013 Seahawks, this is also not the 2017 Jaguars.

I mean, this is in Blake Bortles. This is somewhere in between those two things. I think that's a fascinating point and a couple different observations here. One, I also almost wrote about this for tomorrow, the fact that today, in general, in the NFL, kind of felt like the undercard to tomorrow. outside of the Saints game. That's what it felt like. But that being said, I don't know about this Bears team

because the Jaguar's comparison, I think is apt in some ways. And I do the Tribusky is better. I think it's apt, but I just don't want to call Trubisky Bortals. He's a little, at least a little better than that. So it's not even the Trubisky Bortles thing. I think he's better than Bortals.

I think that he can do more with his feet in better situations. He uses that running more in the right spots more than Bortle does. Bortle does. He does use it as a crutch, but not to the same degree. And what I trust more about the Bears' offense isn't even necessarily the quarterback. It's the infrastructure.

The Bears' weapons are better. Their line is better. Their coach is significantly better. There was a stat today in the second half. I might have even been at half time. But your Chicago accent's coming out a little bit in this podcast. Is it? That's really funny.

This is, you're all in. I've been around some dudes over the last hour or so walk in from Soldier Field just in a cloud of cigar smoke as the Green Bay chance or the Green Bay sucks chance were happening. So maybe it's rubbed off on me. The way, the way you, you hit second half there. Half, second half. Yeah, that was your, your guns ablaze. Your guns ablaz. And all it took was another Eddie Jackson touchdowns. I get drunk off those Eddie Jackson touchdowns, man. That's all I need. So the, uh, you threw me off now. So in the second half, I believe it. Yeah, there you go. In the second half, Chicago, in the second half, I think that maybe it might have been the beginning, but at some point, the bears at 15 first downs.

Yeah. And only three third down conversions. Yeah. That is the sign of a very well-constructed offense. Well, that was the Eagles last year, too. I mean, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, they weren't converting third downs because they weren't getting to third down. No, no, no, no, I know, but I know what you're saying, getting first downs on first down.

Yes, or second down. The Eagles did that as well last year. We were talking about you different. They were efficient on third down, but they all were also really good at getting first downs on first down. And that's what you should do. And I think that's the mark of a well-constructed offense. And I really do trust. I think that Nagy goes into a shell every once in a while in situations like this.

I think the Bears, honestly, though, he didn't at the end because the Bears threw the ball on that third down where Cody Parky made the field goal. And I love the call. I love not going for a 46-yard field goal in that situation like you're the Cowboys and actually trying to get a first down to win the game. But that's a sign of a well-constructed offense. And there are two examples that I'm going to point to you. One, they had a second and 21 after on first down, or on second down, and they had a huge screen to Trey Burton that got called back for garbage offense, pass interference penalty, which bears get a lot of.

On second and 21, they had delayed handoff to Tariq Cohen for a first down. On another second and six, they came out and empty and ran a little jerk route to Alan Robinson for a first down and just negated the third down entirely. They did a lot of that tonight, and it helped them control the game offensively, even if it seems like their performance on offense was terrible because of the two Trubisky interceptions that were really bad. So that's kind of what you have right now.

You have a quarterback that in certain scenarios is going to screw up royally and put you in a bad spot, and you have an offense that can lift him up with both personnel and with play calling. So we'll see the limits of that. you know what else we'll see the limits of? And this goes to the Jaguars conversation. The Bears have the best defense in football.

It's a fun, very fun defense that reminds me a lot of other Bears defenses in the past just because of how much they feel like they can score, how much they feel like they deserve the ball. It's a blast. That mattered in 2017. Let's play a game. The score if the Bears have to play a road game, and they will, against the Rams and the Saints respectively.

Give me those two matchups right now, just as far as, giving people a picture of where the third best team in the NFC right now stands in that conference because I think we both agree. I don't know the answer to that. And that's why I'm so interested comparing them to the 2017 Jaguars, the 2017 Jaguars went to the AFC championship game and almost won. If their quarterback had been 5% better, they would have won. The Bears quarterback is 5% better.

Their offense definitely is over that Jaguars team. Do you think that that Jaguars defense, do you think this bear's defense is as, as, as, talented and good at that Jaguar's defense. I think it's very close. Okay. I just think that the mixture of not only the past defense, but the two statistically best cornerbacks in football, I think gave that an extra layer.

Now, the safeties on this Bears team are much better than the Jacksonville ones. I think it's close. And I think the biggest question that you have to answer. I just want to be on record. I don't think that. I actually think that the Jaguars defense last year, the way they were playing was better than the Bears defense.

I think they were maybe a little bit better. but I think it was close enough to make the comparison. I think the more important comparison is between defense in 2017 and defense in 2018. Can you win with defense, period, in the playoffs in 2018? I don't know the answer to that because we haven't seen it yet, but I'm much more inclined to say no than I would have a year ago. That's how much the game has changed in the last 12 months.

The Bears have the best defense in football, and it's not particularly close, but does that matter? Does that matter in a conference where the Rams and the St. exist. And I don't know. I really don't know how to answer that quite yet. I hope it's yes, but I also am leaning toward no. I'm firmly, I'm firmly no, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong. That'd be very exciting if I was wrong. That'd be great. I'm going to looking forward to my team playing the playoffs. I don't know how it's going to go, but it's a fun year. We're not there yet, buddy. Uh, no, but I'm just saying. I'm looking forward to the idea. Also, there's also a fairly good

chance if you look at some of these statistical projections that these two teams play again in first round. A lot of football to be played, but yeah. If I guess could get the wild card, but I mean, I also think they're still in the wild play as of right now. Yeah. I mean, they are very much in play to get the wild card. I think they're offensive. Can we talk about them for a second? Sure. We absolutely can. Because are they, so they lost to the bills earlier this season. And since then, they've looked fairly steady. They lost to the, the Rams and we sort of get that they aren't on the top, top tier at this point.

But I was really disappointed in their offense. You know, Dalvin Cook just had no chance tonight. Mike Zimmer came out. And they played the best defense in the league. I'm not sure if he knew that. Sure. It was just a very, very strange game. Mike Zimmer was extremely sort of disheartened at the end.

Here was a quote from Mike Zimmer. Kind of a somber quote. It's from Chad Graffey. He had it. It's about them not heating his warnings. it's definitely a concern either they're not listening or they're not paying attention or they don't really care. What does that mean? In reference to who?

That's very common. In reference to who? The Vikings. Just the whole team. The whole team. They may not care. How many warnings is Mike Zimmer issuing to the Vikings as a whole? Well, I think he told the Vikings not to lose and they didn't listen.

That's very strange. They played a real NFL team. I also, I don't appreciate Kirk Cousins and the primetime cops. Yeah, exactly. I don't understand that. They played a real NFL team. I also don't appreciate Kirk Cousins and his, the only reason we're in prime time is because of us comment. And I'm very upset about it.

And I'm glad that he had to eat that. I'm very glad about it. You can start a feud with Kurt Cousins now? I'm good. No, I actually like Kurt Cousins. He seems like a nice guy. I'm just very, I'm on a high right now with this Bears with. It's a huge ringer fan.

All right. So where do we see the Vikings going from here? I still think that they're right there in that second tier of AFC play or NFC play or NFC playoff teams. If we're doing the wild card. Yeah. I mean, I think they're below the bears. I feel like this game is very, this game is indicative of the matchup advantage the bears

have over this team. Their pass rush can crush the Vikings in a game. And that's what happened today. I mean, even with a couple of brisky interceptions by virtue of playing a very complicated, very talented defense, even if they have had their ups and downs this season, the bears are better than the Vikings in a matchup sense because of what their pass rush can do against that team. That was Minnesota's, it's been their Achilles Hill the entire season. They can't block anybody and the bears have arguably the best past Russian football. So it's probably not

going to go well. But I do think that Carolina struggles over the last couple weeks, everything else, you probably put Carolina, Seattle, Minnesota all in that same tier that are in the running for a wild card. Yeah, I agree. You know, Patrick, Patrick Dority had a really, really funny tweet earlier today. He's just said that there's just a lot of teams. He's talking about the AFC, but I would expand it to everybody. There's just a lot of teams where I would believe their record is anything. Like he gave the example. Like, if you found out right now, the Colts were 8 and 2 and Tennessee was 3 and 7, you'd just be like, yeah, I guess. Like, I have no team I was going to use.

Like, that's literally, like, I have no idea what anybody is. And somebody had pointed out. Carolina was 4 and 6. Yeah, if Carolina were, like, if the lions were just like in the 5 seed right now, I'd just be like, I guess. sure. If the lions were the Titans, you just wouldn't be surprised. Everybody everybody is like in this weird

middle right now. And it's very, very funny to watch. And right now I think that the of the teams not leading their division, the Vikings are sort of at the top of that weird middle. They have the tie which gives them a strange advantage. Again, they're still in a wild card playoff

spot right now. If the playoffs started tomorrow, these two teams will play again. So it's not a disaster. It's just more like More like a what the hell game. Yeah. The Vikings don't exactly have an easy stretch, though. They get Green Bay at home on Sunday night next week. They get the Patriots after that.

Then they go to Seattle in a Monday night game. Then they get the Dolphins at home, which they should win that game. I asked, by the way, I asked Danny Kelly if Andrew Luck, if Seahawks fans are going to get mad that Andrew Luck is good again, because they always get really mad about that. And he thinks that they, he thinks that the band base is over it, but he's not. sure. I think they'll still probably get mad.

Andrew Luck looks really good. We'll get to that. We're going to get to that. All right. Let's get to one more kind of secondary lead here. Oh, yeah. And that is the Alex Smith injury ripple effect, which has a lot of implications. Let's start with Washington. Sure. I mean, we've talked about this team

as they've won games. We've been unimpressed with them. Even if as Alex Smith was playing today, their offense did not look good. It now feels like their season is over. I mean, Colt McCoy is the quarterback. I don't know how they could possibly, I don't know how they could possibly get to the playoffs. Also,

NFC East isn't very good. So maybe they so can. I have no idea. Let me share with you a thing that was going around, probably around the time you were going to the Bears game. Ralphakiano SportsNet, New York asked Odell Beckham, is it really that crazy that the Giants could run the table and win the NFC East?

Yes, it is. Said Beckham, it's really only crazy until you do it. Which is a Nike ad. Okay, first of all, is it? Okay, so here's a deal. Yeah, it's the Nike ad going right now. Oh, is it the Kaepernick one? I mean, it's the LeBron one currently.

I don't know. I'm not up. I'm not up on the current Nike ads. I am up on the New York Giants. You think they can't run the table? But I guess what I'm trying to say here is that the Redskins were so sort of walking on eggshells already that no one thought that they were going to win. and now that Alex Smith, like Pat Schumer had to be like asked a couple times about just the wide open NFC East.

The Giants are not in this thing. But who is in this thing are the Cowboys and maybe even the Eagles because it is open season. I mean, the Redskins are not going to win that many games going on the stretch. Now it becomes a Cowboys division and maybe we see the defending champions just string a couple of wins together. The Redskins host the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. The Eagles host the Giants on Sunday. That is really, really important. The records right now, Redskins six and four.

Cowboys 5 and 5, Eagles 4 and 6. I'm not including the Giants who are who are a Nike ad away here. And I just, they're out. But I am ready, I'm putting the entire division in the Tyson zone. I don't see the Eagles making the playoffs. I don't even, I can't hold the case for it. I mean, any, it's the schedule.

You just, do the Cowboys are going to do it? I think I saw those two teams play last week. I saw those two teams play last week and they looked pretty evenly matched. So here's my, here's the thing. I would agree about that last week. The Eagles now have zero corners. They have no one. They have no one.

If they were the Eagles team of last week, I would say probably the Eagles have a chance. Now they have no one on the back end. I think it's over. I think they're too hurt. Okay. And they play the Cowboys, the Eagles, and the Texans still. I think they lose all three of those games.

Okay. Better coach, better quarterback. I'm with you on all this. That's important. Those two things are important. And I think that when you look at better coach, better quarterback and then all of the other advantages what the Cowboys have, I think it's a little more evenly matched. Now, one of the things I think, and this is one of the things we see when

we look at the statistical projections from places like football outsiders or ESPN or 538 or New York Times, is that a one game lead or a two game lead is really, really important. So like the fact that the Cowboys have five wins right now and the Eagles have four is really important. I think that, you know, I think that Zach Berman made this point today about the Eagles and it's sort of what I subscribe to. The way they lost today is more concerning than the fact that they lost. Yes. They weren't competitive. They were not competitive.

And this is the team won the Super Bowl last year. And I don't know where the psyche is right now. I don't know if the Washington impending collapse is going to get them re-energized. I don't know. I have no idea, dude. I have no idea what's going to happen in this division. I can't believe they're going to award a playoff spot to one of these guys. It's a shame.

But if we look at, all right, so the Eagles have six games left. Three of them are, two of them are against that collapsing Washington team. Let's concede they can win both of those games. I can't wait. I can't wait for someone to clip this when Washington wins a division. I know, I know. We're doing who's going to replace the collapsing Washington Redskins atop the NFC East and then they win a playoff game.

I did a Twitter search for Foles and McCoy earlier, and I was delighted, delayed it in one I saw. Oh, there was enough there. There was a lot. Yeah, I would definitely compare the Washington offensive infrastructure

to last year's Eagles. But so let's just concede that they beat Washington those two games and they beat the Giants next week. They have the Cowboys, the Eagles, or the Rams and the Texans. Dude, guess who the Cowboys have? Guess who the Cowboys have? They could probably beat the Texans, though.

That fake Washington team almost beat Texans to all the Texans to the, the Cowboys still have the Saints, the Eagles, and the Colts. Who are the best team in football? But that's what we're saying. I'm talking about the game league matters. I'm talking about the Colts. I know. I know.

The Saints are old news. I think that both of those teams in this scenario, the way we're talking about it could go three and three. And like you just said, that one game lead then becomes very important. Right. It's so. But also it becomes more than a one game lead if the Cowboys beat that Eagles team. Because then they have the head to head. It's over.

Then it's a two-game lead. They pretty much have it. So, man, I don't know. Let's, before we move on, let's talk about this through Washington's lens very quickly, outside of this season. $71 million? $71 million, man. And I don't want to besmirch Alex Smith on the day he got seriously injured.

I mean, I don't want to pile on. It was gruesome. I feel for the guy, by all accounts, he is an awesome dude who has just been gracious at every point. in his NFL career about helping young guys, everything else. But in a practical level, he counts $20 million in dead money against the cap in 2020. So I was in... He is their quarterback or they are financially tied to him

for the next three years. I was in Richmond for the training camp. And I was like, hey guys, what's the deal with Alex Smith? And everybody around there was like, you know what? have been a risky move with this franchise just needed stability. What? That's because of the cousins. I mean, obviously, I thought it was garbage, but you know, if you want stability,

you should keep Kirk Cousins. Well, yeah, no, the whole thing with the contract uncertainty and the one-year deal is and all that stuff. And they just wanted to lock somebody in, right? So you give Alex Smith four years 94. Dude, I didn't say it was smart. I'm just telling you what I heard. And I was just like, all right, dude.

I mean, I'd rather just have Kirk Cousins, but that's not. fine. I mean, you also gave him $71 million. Kirk Cousin's got 84 million guaranteed. So let's not, it's not a massive difference, right? You didn't save money. The only way, and we've talked of this a million times, but the only way to spin that move is like a high-price quarterback is not that important.

We're just going to keep doing the, you know, 10 million or less quarterback, and we're going to build our pass rush out in corners and weapons around them and all that stuff, and then they didn't do it. However, the opposite of stability is going to happen in Washington right now. going to have a quarterback who, if that injury is as severe as we think, his status for next season is up in the air, then what do you do? Do you roll with Colt McCoy next September? Do you draft a guy?

Do you sign a guy, a patchwork guy? I don't even know where you begin. This is a franchise, at least in the short term, a franchise crippling injury. It absolutely is. And you have a $20 million dollar cap hit next year for him. If you try to get another quarterback and you try to sign another quarterback because you don't want to draft the guy because you still feel like Alex Smith is your guy in 2020, because again, you're financially tied to him in 2020. You have $21.5 million in cap space next year. In large part, because you're paying your quarterback who's not playing next year,

at least at the beginning most likely, $20 million. It's Washington has $21 million in cap space next year. You know who has $20 million in cap space? The Bears. Yeah, we just did this. I mean, everybody has cap space. And $20 million is not a lot of cap space. It's not a lot of cap space at all compared to other teams.

But how far apart right now are the Bears and the Redskins into terms of their franchise trajectory? I think it's pretty far. That's what I'm saying. The Bears went all in with a young team, and a young quarterback to try to really build out their roster. And they have the same amount of cap space as a Washington team that doesn't do anything except stop the wrong.

run and muddy up games particularly well. I mean, it's just a really bad situation. They are running in place. And they were running in place with Alex Smith. Now, not having him for the rest of this year and then maybe not at full strength next year, they're not even running in place. They're moving backwards with no plan to ever move forward in terms of the resources. The most iconic Redskins moment of the last couple of years is when you didn't remember

they made the playoffs three years ago. That's probably true. I remember absolutely nothing about that. And I don't really feel that bad about it. It's just two years ago. Yeah, I don't feel that bad about it. All right. Let's move up to stock up and stock down for this week.

Hell yeah. Let's start with the Baltimore Ravens where the stock up is pretty much that they're worth watching. That Joe Flacco is not there. There are interesting things happening. Baltimore football is energized. Lamar Jackson, I don't know what that was, but I really enjoyed it. That's what I'll say about the Ravens offensive performance today. 27 carries most by a quarterback since 1970 since the merger.

117 rush yards, second most by a rookie quarterback since the merger. 170 rush yards. Do you know who held the record? Who holds a rookie quarterback? Still holds the record. For most rush yards by a rookie quarterback. In a game?

Yes. It is in a game. Robert Griffin? It is Robert Griffin. That's correct. Yeah, I remember that it was probably that huge, that game where he had the huge carry against Minnesota. I really remember that game well.

Yeah. Last one, this is a stat given out by the NFL. 14 carries of 15 or more miles per hour, the most of any player in a game this year. Although I'm no longer citing that stat after the Raiders punter thing last week. Yeah, I'm not sure how reliable that is. All right. So two things about this. One, I guess only one thing. does this matter?

I mean, if it's cool, it's cool to watch. It's very cool to watch. And I really appreciate a lot of the schematic stuff. Marty Morningwig has been a guy that has been in the league forever. And this isn't to the same level of what Norv Turner has done for the Panthers offense. But it's cool to see a guy who's a lifer willing to do different stuff to match his skill set.

Sure. I mean, he was with Andy Reid. He had Michael Vic. I mean, they did some interesting stuff there for sure. Yeah. I think he's done,

I mean, what he did today all that, I mean, they had the touchdown to Edwards. They used jet motion coming to the right. And then there was a replay with Edwards on the goal line, essentially, or inside the five. And it was just an easy touchdown. And the threat, and I know that Edwards had a huge game, but Edwards doesn't have a huge game unless Lamar Jackson is there changing the numbers advantage.

I mean, that's exactly what this game was about and how well they did on the ground. So you'd figure that they're able to sustain that. But if you can't throw the ball in a day in H where teams are scoring four, 40 points a game with ease like the Saints. Is this just a, is it a curiosity? Or do you think this is something that can actually be a part of an NFL game plan right now? Good question. I think what I'm encouraged by is that they obviously spent a long time figuring out how to

game plan to Lamar Jackson's strengths in this specific game. This is not sustainable. They're not going to give him the most carries in the history of quarterbacks every single week. that's not going to happen. So I think you start to have a little bit of a hybrid. I mean, they did this, first of all, just to catch the Bengals off guard a little bit. That was exciting.

And that was something that was probably a little fairly forward thinking. But I just think that this is, they're going to grow his role. I think that this probably suggests a little more creativity than just having him drop back and just letting him rip. And so I'm actually excited to see where they go on this. I don't think there's going to be, you know, look, he's a first round pick. He's really good.

He's really talented. They're not going to put him in a position to get the crap knocked out of him every single week. They know that. They're realistic. This is not, this is not what the dolphins we're going to try to do with Pat White or whatever.

I mean, this is, they're going to have him be a passer. He's a really talented passer. We saw that in college. So they're going to build an offense around both his legs and his arm, and it's going to be good. It's going to be at least adventurous.

So what is the limit, do you think? Can he run the ball 13 times a game? It depends. So it depends what those runs are and what his running style is. If he gets really good at avoiding contact, if he gets really good at sliding and not going after the extra yard and that kind of thing and he gets a lot of awareness, then I think that, you know, and I think he will.

I think he'll absolutely have that. then yeah, he can get by with double-digit carries a game. I absolutely think that. If he's a little more of, I mean, remember, Andrew Luck, Andrew Luck was not a smart runner when he started that. He liked getting hit. He told everybody he loved getting hit, you know, on the first play of the game or whatever.

Well, he got hit until he just had to stop playing for a couple of years. And I understand that was, you know, a completely different set of circumstances. But I'm saying, being smart on the field when avoiding contact is a skill. And I think Russell Wilson's the perfect example. Russell Wilson has never been hurt and he runs all the time. But what do you think Russell Wilson's high number of carries is in his season? Eight.

For per game. It's less than that. 118 for the year is his high. It seems, I mean, it's, even if they run Lamar Jackson's 10 times a game, that's 160 for the season. That's more than Cam Newton has ever had in a year. So this is, even if we're trying to find a middle, ground here, it's a more drastic approach that you've seen from a team.

I was pretty close on eight. It was 7.3. Yeah. I mean, it was over eight. I feel good. I feel good about it. But it's so, I mean, that's the thing. This would be a departure from what we've seen from the NFL and what we've seen from

an individual NFL team if they really commit to this. The other thing about him and Cam, if you want to make him, if he doesn't become a smart runner like Russell necessarily, Cam Newton was 250 pounds. Cam Newton is from outer space. Lamar Jackson does not weigh 250 pounds. Two inches shorter. Two inches and 46 pounds. So that's something else you have to take into account.

It's fascinating to me. I would love to see where the limit exists. And if they try to figure it out and they try to make this a huge part of what they do, I do think that it's a response to how teams are building defenses now. I mean, the pendulum was always going to swing back to some degree smartly or not. There was going to be a team that was going to try this. They were going to say, we're going to beef up our offensive line. We're going to understand that our running game can be built on the numbers advantage created

by the bells and whistles of the quarterback being a running threat and all the motions, everything else. So many teams are understanding what jet motion can do for your running game now. And can the running game be the basis of who you are? and I honestly think that we're going to find that out in the Lamar Jackson era over the next six games at least and maybe into next season. I'm curious to watch it.

I don't know if it's sustainable. I don't think it is. That's my gut feeling, but I do know that I'm interested in it. Yeah, I know. I understand what you're saying about the pendulum swing and stuff like that, but I just don't think in 2018

when you've got Mahomes and Breeze and, you know, golf and all these offenses, I just don't think you can put up that many yards and that many points with a run-focused attack. I tend to agree with you, but I also think I would much rather watch this, and it might be a better approach this year, next year, than whatever Joe Flacco is going to do quarterbacking that offense.

I would rather watch this even if the ceiling doesn't bring you to where you need to be in 2018. Let me ask you a question. if you started all 16 games with all three quarterbacks, so three different versions of the season, one with Lamar, one with Joe Flacco, one with RG3, give me the wins in each of those scenarios. I have no idea. I mean, I have absolutely no idea.

I don't know. I mean, I think that their ceiling is probably highest with Flacco still. I don't know. I don't even know how to answer that. I think that the best version of these Ravens right now, or at least the version I want to watch is with Lamar Jackson. That's all I really know. I have no idea what the success level would be.

I think a healthy flacco can be a contributor to them. And then they have, they either work Lamar Jackson in. They have a package of plays for him. I don't know. I hate, I disagree with that. I just think that you have to commit to this full bore if the effectiveness is going to be there.

I don't think you can do it halfway. I really don't. Well, you just said the ceiling was higher with Lacko. So would you just start Flacco and let it roll? I think they're ceiling as high with Flacco if he played well, is what I'm saying. If this tail off happens, then they're just going to be boring. I figured they win about the same amount of games with all of them, but I still feel like you'd rather be interesting if you're going to be mediocre.

I don't think anyone cares about it. I think they're all trying to save their jobs. Yeah, I think so too. too. And I think that they can talk ownership, whatever, into, well, this is our approach now. And if they win a couple games here, maybe it works. I think John Marbaugh is trying to not coach the Jets this time next year. That's his number one concern. I have no idea how it's going to go.

But I do know that I love to watching it today. And I'm going to tune into way more Ravens games over these next six weeks than I would have otherwise. That is what I will say. Let's get to an actual good NFL or offense or good AFC offense that's not just, again, a curiosity and peculiar. The Indianapolis Colts might be good, man. I mean, the offense

might be really good. I agree. You've done a lot of work on this. Why don't you take it away? I wrote about this last week, and I just wrote about what the system has done to both protect and elevate Andrew

Luck. And I think that for all, as great as Andrew Luck was in his first stretch with the Colts, that offense did two things. One, it asked him to make a ton of tough throws outside the numbers in deep. That's what they wanted to be. And two, it got to shit kicked out of them consistently.

This offense has done neither of those. There are a ton of easy throws. Their protection has been amazing. I mean, he didn't get, did he get sack today? No, I didn't. Did he? No, again, zero. He has not been, he got hit.

He was not hit today. That is incredible. incredible. He was hit zero times in an NFL game against the team with a very good pass rush. He was hit every single play, sometimes multiple plays for like 10 years. That's nuts. He was not hit in this game. I watched most of it.

And I didn't see him get hit, but I would assume it had happened at least one time. He has not gotten sacked since October 5th. Do you see this goddamn Marino stat that is related to this? Mm-mm. Dude, I'm about to blow your mind. don't want to take away from Andrew Luck. I don't want to take away from Andrew Luck, but there's a stat that is luck-oriented that then dovetails with a Dan Marino stat that just I needed to sit down and have a glass of water.

Lux's 200 is from ESPN. Lux's 214 straight pass attempts without being sat is the longest streak since 1991, Mark Rippen, 252. Prior to that, the last streak that long was an NFL record. I'm going to wait here. NFL record straight attempts by Dan Marino from 88 to 89. How many straight pass attempts did Dan Marino have without getting sacked Robert Mace? Was it like 500?

759. What? How? 759 pass attempts for Dan the man Marino. No one else can ever be described as having a quick release ever again for the history of football. What do we do? Here's the thing. I was barely alive.

in 1988. Why wasn't everybody older than us whenever we were like, damn, Peyton Manning or like Baker Mayfield, these guys have quick can't. They're like, dude,

damn Reno once won 759 straight passes without a freaking sack, dude. Oh, that's nuts. That's amazing. What is that? Oh.

He couldn't move. And that's the most impressive. That's seriously the most impressive part. And luck is, but I, okay. So I just want the listener to know. And I,

I know you're on the same page with me. There's, there's, we are doing everything in our power right now to not spend the next 30 minutes just talking about Damarino. I'm trying to tie it back into the Colts. This is exactly what I'm trying to do.

I'm trying to be a podcast host here. So let's tie it back in. If we're talking about quick releases, that's what this team is built on. They're getting the ball out of his hands quickly. A lot of, much shorter throws. And I did all the stats last week in a piece I wrote about luck.

But, and he had the fourth highest, fourth longest completions in the league in 20s. 16. I believe he's fifth from the bottom this year, but they're still throwing the ball down field every once in a while. I mean, there's a 70-yard touchdown to Ty Hilton. But I tweeted about this earlier today. The most impressive play on that 70-yard touchdown drive was, or 70-yard touchdown throw on that same drive, was the play beforehand where they lined up with two backs, I think it was 21 personnel or 22 even. And they sent Wilkins in motion, in jet motion, and then they

faked a play action pass to the running back in the back field. I can't remember if it was Mack or Heinz. And then they just hit Dantrell Inman right in the middle of the field for 10 yards. That's the type of shit that happens all the time. They ran a play, they did this the whole game where they would come out with two or three tight ends

and then split them out. So you're in your heavy package and then you have linebackers covering Jack Doyle and Eric Ebron. And they just cleared Ebron out and let Doyle work underneath when it was in 13 personnel, I believe, for like an easy 12-yard completion. It's just the type of shit that wasn't happening

when Pep Hamilton and Rob Chesnisky were the offensive coordinators. You're watching an offense elevate one of the most talented quarterbacks in the NFL, and this is your result. The guys Andrew Luck are throwing to right now. Or Dantro Inman, Ryan Grant, Carlos Rogers,

Zach Pascall. I mean, these are not superstars, T. Y. Hilton is excellent. Outside of that, you have a receiving cord that is pretty much put together with duct tape and paper clips. And Andrew Luck has thrown for 300 yards and three touchdowns a game. And the culture just lighten people up. I mean, this is just unbelievable coaching infrastructure, game planning. And what they're doing right now is unbelievably impressive. Robert, on October 2nd, 1988. Dan Marino. Why are you doing this to me?

I'm trying to keep this on the rails. The previous week, he had been sacked four times. And starting on October 2nd, 1988, he was not sacked for the rest of the year. That was week five. Not sacked for the rest of the year. And then was not sacked again until October 29th of the next year. Week eight. That's a nice year.

I mean, it's a very calm year for him. I'm very happy for him. What are we doing? Why didn't we just retire the position after Dan Marino? Could you imagine him in 2018? All right. Let's move on or else this is going to be an hour and 10 minutes show. Let's get to stock down.

Jacksonville Jaguarine is over. Sure is. Do we want to do a moratorium on this or do we just want to say that No, I want to yell. I want to yell. You yell. I will cede the floor to you, my good friend. So I have a question.

What's the point of having Leonard Fournette? if you can't drain the clock. I was told by the running back people that this is what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to end the game with four straight punts. You're not supposed to have three and outs all over the place.

But that's the problem. The same thing we discuss with the bears, right? Where you just never get to third down, that's how you become a good offense. The Jags understanding is let's get to third and six after two-two-yard runs and because it's third and manageable now.

That's their strategy. And here's the thing, guys. It's 2018. That's not a good strategy. That's not how you win football games anymore. This idea, I mean, Drew Breeze is completing like 80% of his passes on some afternoons. I don't know if he's still doing it.

He was completing like 90% of his passes over the middle of the field, okay? It's actually riskier to run the ball at this point than to have someone like Drew Bree's pass the ball. I'm not saying that someone like Drew Breeze was available. pick four two years ago. What I am saying is it's someone like Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes was. And I think that this whole concept of winning with defense and then running the ball is outdated because passing the ball, I understand it stops the clock with an incompletion. Well, guess what? NFL offenses have by and large figured out how to not have a whole lot of

completions. There's a reason the completion percentage record is being broken every single year. A short pass is the same thing as a run at this point. They've engineered it that way. We've been playing this game for 99 years at professional level. Everybody seemed to have it figured out. So you don't need to do the conservative thing anymore. So I just think generally the idea that that's the model, it's very, very old world. And you can just pass the ball and it's fine.

You don't need to spend the fourth overall pick with a running back. Now, if you do that, I, again, the plan is to be able to run the ball, pound whatever you want to do, waste your clock, pound the ball away, move the chains. You actually have to do that in order for this to work. If you're going to draft a running back in the top five, my suggestion is to actually draft a good running back. We should hang the box score for the Jags box score from this game. we should hang in in the Hall of Fame to show everyone the moment where the NFL changed

and this is just a, it's archaic. It's like a relic from another era. They ran the ball 41 times with their running backs. If we take out Blake Bortle's two carries for 17 yards. You're supposed to protect leads with this.

That's what you're supposed to do. Protect leads. That's the whole argument for this. And you can't do it. Meanwhile, 41 carries for less than four yards of carry, 3.95. 41 carries. They threw the ball 18 times. And they lost because of it.

Everybody who kept saying, well, you have to run the ball in order to preserve a lead. Go away. Just go away. Stop talking. Go talk to someone else. Stop talking to me about wasting the clock and draining the clock and protecting. We got to protect the lead. Do you know you protect the lead by getting first downs? Or you know, you know how you start to lead is by just putting it. up 40 points a game and winning every game by three touchdowns. Fine, but you protect whatever you want to do. Do whatever you want to do. Just don't give me this four yards, three yards in a cloud of dust bullshit.

You protect the lead by getting first. We're not playing the same game. This is a, we're comparing the Jags. And again, if we want to go back to the Bears, the Bears had a lead. They protected that lead because they didn't just run the ball for two yards every time. They decided that the best way to do this is to get first downs. It is to throw the ball every once in a while. in order to maintain possession

and to drain the game. It's just, it's, I mean, it drives me absolutely not to me. The fact that we are wasting this Jaguars defense and their title window is over and they're now irrelevant is frustrating as someone who really cares about football. Remember we ever talking about the only time

I ever asked Bill Belichick question? No, I can't believe it's only been one time, but continue. Well, I mean, he only does press conferences. And so, a couple of your, well, my first NFL owner's meeting, I was doing something on the scoring back then. And Rich McKay was like, you know, we looked at it. And the scoring with like Paul Brown's offense was sort of similar to 2011.

So we didn't think it was a huge deal. So I was like, oh, that's an interesting little nugget. So I went up to Belichick. And I said something about Paul Brown. I had no idea what I was talking about. And I was trying to compare the offenses from Paul Brown to the offenses of 2011. I had not covered the NFL in 2011. And he just looked at me and he goes, Paul Brown, the sport is just,

just different. Like, it's literally a different game. Like, we don't play that game. Like, this is not a thing. Like, he didn't use exact words, but he literally said, we don't play that game anymore. Like, it's a different game. And that's kind of how I feel about anybody who just goes on this, you know, run the ball to protect the lead, like that whole thing. It's just not what we, it's not, it's not, it's been proven to not work. It's been proven to not work for a decade. It's, the game has changed so much in the last year. But that change, that change is 10 years old. That change is so long ago you can't even describe it.

It's not about the only argument, in my opinion, for having a running back that is worth a high pick or some money or whatever is twofold. It's you either use that running back as the basis of your offense, including your passing offense, which the Rams do, or that running back is your de facto number two receiver, like a Sequin, like a whoever happens to be.

Unless that is true, then your running back isn't worth, Anything. Anything. The running back as a person, as a position is not dead. It is not dead. What's dead is running the ball in a traditional way. Correct. I totally agree. Having a great running back is as valuable as it ever has been.

Look at Todd Gurley. Look at the guys who can catch the ball out of the backfield and stretch a defense and just absolutely open up those seams. Look at the stuff you're able to do with route running out of the backfield to just spread. I mean, it's just unbelievable what you can do. Tariq Cohen is an immensely valuable player for the Bears because of everything that he can do. But he is not somebody you're going to run into the line. Let's look

at the carrier numbers for 28 times. 28 times Leonard Fournett. I can't believe this. I can't believe this happened. I can't believe the Jaguars did this. All right. One more stock down very quickly. The Panthers have been very disappointing over the last two weeks.

What the hell was this game? Really slow start. A really slow start. There's some pressure on Cam, some certain times in this game. So impressed with DJ Moore. I mean, outside of the totals, some of the catches he made in this game. And Curtis Samuel, too, I mean, two guys, I tweeted about it, but two guys that are 5-11, 6'5, that play like their 5-5, which is a new world for Cam, who's used to a 6-5 Calvin Benjamin playing like he's 5-8. And so those guys, I was very impressed with, but their offense was just slow to start. Cam air-mailed some throws today. I can't decide if

they got a buzz sawed by the Steelers last week and that's just done and then this is the type of road letdown you have every once in a while and they'll be back or this is the start of some sort of trend. I'm kind of curious to see where they go from here but I've definitely cooled on them compared to where I was two weeks ago

because I think both of us were very excited about them. Yeah, and we were very excited and I just this was just such a strange game. It wasn't even a defining narrative. I mean, it was just, you know, the Lions didn't have any turnovers, that whole thing. The Panthers defense didn't play bad, but the time that they gave up 40 points. It was just the whole thing.

It was just a disjointed game. Again, they are still, I think, fifth in the NFC. This game won't exactly mean anything unless somehow the Lions come on at the end of the season and have a tiebreaker. So a weird game, weird afternoon. Ron Rivera had some weird two-point conversion decisions. The whole thing was strange. huge, huge game next week. They play Seattle.

I mean, that tiebreaker could be massive in the wild card race. That is one of the games of the weekend next weekend. I mean, if they lose that game, then their schedule is pretty, they play the Saints twice, but that Saints game may not even matter in Week 17. The Panthers might not make the playoffs, man. I mean, this is a tough road. They play a feisty Browns team on the road.

They get Atlanta. Atlanta on the road doesn't exactly. scare me, but they still have a ton of talent. I mean, this may not happen. I would just pencil them in last week. Yeah. I mean, I think the Seahawks have a chance to at least be pretty good. I think so, too.

I mean, it's what we talked about with the damn Eagles, coach and quarterback. Oh, and I just think that their offensive line and what it's turned into is night and day. I'm just saying, like, when you have the coaching quarterback advantage, that can go a long way. And then everything else gets considered afterwards. Obviously, I think there's a lot of talent. I mean, Bobby Wagner's incredible, all that stuff. but I'm just saying when you have those two things and you're just dealing with a bunch of crappy,

mediocre NFC teams, that can get you a long way. When you have Mike McCarthy putting on fourth and two, it also helps your wildcard chances when that stuff's happening. All right, let's get to our challenge flags very quickly. Why don't you lay out your John Gruden situation for me?

I did not see this because I was en route to Soldier Field, but apparently there was a great moment. John Gruden got in a tiff with Derek Carr. They had to say everything was fine. everything did not look fine. I don't know if you saw this, but it was pretty, you know, it was a Gruden kind of, what are you doing? And then Carr yelled at him.

And they had to do the whole everything is fine. We do this all the time. If they do it all the time, that's actually a problem. It was one of those things that they both said they do it all the time as a way to say this is not a big deal. But it was actually probably, probably a big deal. I think we're watching the quarterback and coach relationship here. and the reason this concerns me

is because John Gruden has basically had a toxic relationship after a little bit with everybody he's ever had a he's ever been a coach of quarterback wise I don't know enough about the history I mean who else would you throw in there did you have a tax relation with the bucks quarterbacks

he sure did I don't remember this is too long ago for me he's had some real issues I think maybe Brad Johnson was on his good side I think Brad Johnson may be gracefully exited. I might be wrong about that one. But, you know, John Gruden has never really had a long-term guy. He's never actually really had a guy like Derek Carr who was this young in his career,

who they've invested so much in. Chris Sims was, you know, not on a mega contract. He was not on, you know, he was not, he was a very good quarterback when, you know, in 2004 when he came in from Texas. but he went to a playoff game. He obviously had that injury, but it was not the same as Derek Carr. And so I'm really fascinated to see this because Gruden has churned through so many quarterbacks

and you see that sideline Tiff. I cannot imagine their relationship is all that good. It's, it doesn't, I don't know, man. This is not going well. Let's not spend another second on that game because it was, I feel bad for anyone who was stuck in, let's say you don't have Red Zone,

that that was your national game was the only football game you could watch. I feel so, so bad. for you. What a terrible matchup. Especially compared to the two other games that were going on, it just couldn't have been less interesting. If you Google John Gruden, Chris Sims,

you'll get some really interesting. Maybe I will do that after we're done here. I believe, I don't have it up right now. I believe their relationship was irrevocably broken at one point. All right. We both want to throw a challenge flag on this. Let's get back to the Condoleez-Rice situation.

What is this? I just, if you want to bring in Condoleezza Rice as a consultant, as a team president of sorts, as someone to kind of oversee things, I mean, I trust that. I don't mind her being in Jimmy Haslam's year trying to help him make better decisions. I do mind her getting a head coach interview when, one, I just, it's a publicity stunt, I think, in a lot of ways. And I also think that there are women that are actually trying to coach in the NFL. And it just kind of makes what they're doing seem like a whole.

farce. I mean, there's just so many levels to this that I just feel like are pretty ridiculous. I don't know how you feel. I'm sorry. I'm going to get into this for one second. I googled Brad Johnson and John Gruden and I found out that Brad Johnson revealed after deflate gay that he paid some guys. That's in quotes. I paid some guys to tamper balls in the 2003 Super Bowl. That's just a scandal we just completely glossed over as a nation. All right. Condi Rice. Who cared? The defense, if Brad Johnson if they'd punt it every single time

they would have won that game. I just love the phrase I paid some guys. Who did you pay? All right. Let's talk about Condi Rice. I agree with you. There are women

who are making great strides in the coaching profession. Connolly's Rice is not a coach. I think that there are certain things this brings up, number one, what the role of a coach even is. I agree that people should think

outside the box. you know, I think I saw this thing a couple of years. I know I saw it. Is it Bill James, I think it was in the Bill James abstract, but don't call me on that. And it was about who you should hire as a baseball manager. And he just threw out the idea that if it's really about knowing a lot about baseball, you should just hire Peter Gammon's. And obviously it's funny because 20, 30 years later, they all hire journalists to run the front offices now.

or to work in the front offices at least in baseball. But I do think that there's sort of a, there's an organizational part of it where some people who have worked in the business world maybe might be fairly good at it. We've seen that a little bit in college where guys are actually, you know, former CEO of Ameritrade is a pretty good college football coach now.

I do think there's some of that, but I just don't think when you're in your 60s, you can just become a football coach. And then there was this idea that she'd become the NFL commissioner today. I don't know if you saw that. She's six years older than Roger Goodell. Like, I just don't, I don't know. Maybe that's possible, but I just, I was not, I was not hugely impressed with any of the Condoleezer Rice rumors that I heard on Sunday. No, if you want to bring her in and have a discussion about your organization, information

flow, you know, how you try to, I don't know, maximize performance with certain people, whatever. I understand all of that. I think that stuff is worth it, but I just don't, this idea. This of even saying that you're going to bring her in to hire her as your head coach is just well they denied it pretty swiftly actually it was a very the whole thing was strange all right wonderful all right before we get out of here usually we do this pretty quickly predicting tomorrow's headlines or predicting the week's headlines uh i feel like we should dive into this one a little deeper the chiefs play the rams tomorrow even saying that makes me giddy it's just i'm so pumped about this So do you think that the move from Mexico City to Los Angeles will impact it in any way?

Yes. I mean, I think that the Rams playing at home does matter. I definitely do. I mean, I met more of like logistically. Will there be any wonky performance because of, you know, because it's kind of a shit show as far as, you know, going, the Rams were in Colorado this week, that sort of thing. But now that they spent a couple more days at home than they would have instead of being in Mexico City. I mean, I think this is an advantage for the Rams if it's anything. I definitely do. Yeah. So what are we watching? What's the number one thing do you want to see?

Because one thing I am a little disappointed in is the fact they're not playing on a neutral field because I think when we envisioned these two teams playing, we've thought about it all season. It gets here and now it's not a sort of neutral field paradise where we get to see these two teams match up. I agree with you. I do think the Rams will have a slight advantage.

But I just, there are so many just football dork things that I want to hone it on. What's number one for you? To me, it's how the Rams try to attack the Chiefs. Yeah. The Chiefs have maybe the, I mean, the bottom five run defense, they cannot stop anyone on the ground. So do the Rams try to establish Gurley and just say, we're going to gash you for six yards of carry, stop us and try to control the game? Or do they try to go chunk play for chunk play with the Chiefs who are almost, guaranteed to march the ball every single time they get it.

So what Sean McVeigh tries to do in terms of overall approach and mindset and are we going to try to win a shootout or are we going to try to control the game? That to me is the most important question. I have a big philosophical question for you. Do you think this game matters? No. I mean, what sense? Like, do you think the Chiefs win by 20?

Do I think the Rams? No. Like, are you going to draw any? is there any scenario? I was actually on the phone with my editor a couple hours ago and we were talking about this game and I was saying

the only way it really changes anything is if one of these teams looks like absolute dog shit. And I'm talking like 40 to nothing style dog shit. And even then, you can't talk me out of one of these teams not being a contender.

No. I think the outcome is pretty much irrelevant. I feel like we may learn some stuff based on certain weaknesses, certain strengths. You know, we've seen a lot of, a lot of that though already. I don't think we're going to learn anything new. I feel like this is more about

entertainment. This is more about a celebration of where the NFL is in 2018. This is more about understanding where the league has gotten to and just how the game currently exists. This is the best version of football that we can hope for and it's encapsulated in these two teams. That's what I think this game is about. I don't think it's about a tail of the tape or measuring each other up or a Super Bowl preview any of that stuff. I feel like this is more so just a perfect middle of the season just party about how great it's been and what these two teams stand for. So this is going to be the fifth game where there were two teams with one loss or less meeting up this late in the season. And they haven't really taught us much. You know who the last one was? It was Denver

against Kansas City in 2013. I didn't even remember that game. I don't even remember that game. I don't even remember that Kansas City team. That was the Andy Reed, Andy Reid doing stuff this first year. Remember that? Yeah, but that was the first year.

Okay. I was going to, I was asking, and then the Green Bay and Dallas. I remember Green Bay and Dallas in 2007. But, you know, I don't think, you know, neither of the Green Bay or Dallas made the conference championship game that year.

Kansas City obviously lost their first playoff game that year. I mean, it's just not, there's just not a lot of things you can glean from this. A lot of it's just schedule and luck. And a lot of teams start out 9 and 1, 8, no, that kind of thing. And they don't really make it. And this is not that. Like, if these two teams had two losses, I don't think that it would make them any less special.

This is about the style of play. This is about the talent. This is about the coaches. This is about the quarterbacks. It's not about record. It's not about even the fact that's on primetime. It's not about any of that stuff. It's about the fact that these guys do football.

in a way we love watching. And that's what's exciting about this matchup. I totally agree. This is why we have celebrated this season the way that we have. By the way, that 2013 Chiefs team, Jamal Charles, 2,000 yards from scrimmage, just about on 329 touches and 19 total touchdowns. That dude would have crushed in this version of the NFL.

He would have crushed. He was so freaking good. That's all I'll say. I just love Jamal Charles. So on that note, yeah, I'm with you, man. I just think that they do it such different ways. You have this chiefs team that has all these formations.

Even on a granular level, the under center versus shotgun thing. Yes. I mean, like it's just stuff like that. Yes. They do it in such different ways, but they both speak to innovation, open-mindedness, everything that is right about the sport and every correct decision you can make about it. These two teams do it, but they do it in such drastically different ways. Just watch tomorrow.

how many times the chiefs line up in a different formation, whether it's a different personnel packages with Demetrius Harris and Travis Kelsey in the field, whether it's putting Tyree Kill in the backfield, whether it's emotion here or there, whatever. And then watch how similar and static the Rams are in a lot of ways and watch how they use that to their advantage.

It's just they're diametrically opposed in so many ways, but they're so similar in others. But I also think these guys are not Belichair, okay? These guys are not so super, serious and they have a respect for the game and they understand what this game means. I would not be surprised at both of these guys throughout

things that we've never seen before just because they understand how fun this game is going to be. Andy Reed really leans into that stuff and I appreciate it. And McVeigh, I mean, they know this is a big game and it's going to be fun and also they're not going to see these guys again until maybe the Super Bowl, okay? And that's a nice problem to

have and these coaches are smart enough to come up with new plays the next three months. I mean, it's almost like, you know, two fighters who were just, you know, opening up in the fifth round or just like, we're just going to beat the crap out of each other and then hug afterwards, you know? I mean, that's sort of the way I see this going a little bit where both these offenses say, you know what?

Let's just have some fun. I hope we see some haymakers, man. I really do. All right, guys, that's all we got for today. We will be with you later in the week. We're going to do a Thanksgiving week's show. It'll probably be up a little bit earlier than normal, just based on recording schedules and the fact.

to Thursday is a holiday. So it'll be there for you. It'll be there waiting. And as always, Thursday being a holiday, you mean Redskins Cowboys? That's right. I'm so excited to watch the zombie Redskins against the future NFC East winning Cowboys. Who are the Lions playing? The Chicago Bears. Oh my God. That's your holiday, buddy. Yep. That's all. It's going to be a very strange day. All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening, as always. We appreciate you listening to your NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys.