The Ringer NFL Show - The Andrew Luck Ripple Effect, Where to Draft Todd Gurley, and the Fantasy Football Hall of Fame | The Dantasy Football Podcast

Episode Date: August 27, 2019

Danny Kelly, Danny Heifetz, and Craig Horlbeck break down the fantasy implications of Andrew Luck’s retirement (4:30), discuss where to draft Todd Gurley (24:30), and introduce The Ringer’s Fantasy Football Hall of Fame (37:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Belvedere is a quality choice drinking responsibly is too. And lastly, some big news from us. The Ringer now has a Facebook group solely dedicated to the NFL. Check out our Ringer NFL Facebook group. It's a place for real fans to have real discussions about the NFL and everything around it. We're talking fantasy, gambling, power rankings, and tons of questions like, what qualities make for the best locker room guy? And is Matthew Stafford actually a Hall of Famer?

Plus, each week we'll be answering a question submitted in the Ringer NFL Facebook group on this podcast. So make sure to join the group and get active. Welcome to the Danesie Football Podcast, presented by the Ringer podcast network. My name is Danny Haifitz, and I'm joined by the one, the only, the all time, the hero we need, the analysts we deserve. The Dark Night Hall of Famer, Danny Kelly, what is on your mind, D.K.? I mean, what else could it be? The Andrew Luck retirement story is just shaking me to my core. It was a crazy Saturday night news drop.

I'll tell you that. So I saw Adam Schifter's tweet and I immediately put my phone back in my pocket. It was like, damn, Schifter got hacked. That sucks. I was like, oh, I'm waiting. How long we'll take for the Colts to refute that? It was truly unbelievable. I mean, on one hand, I definitely understand kind of where he's coming from,

but I just never expected that to happen at all. It was just so out of left field. Just a huge, huge, huge story. And obviously it has major repercussions for the NFL at large. So, yeah, that's kind of like the big thing that happened over the weekend. Yeah, it's wild. There's like this, I mean, a Titan among men on the gridiron will not be a member of his team going into the air. And it's going to shake the entire race for the AFC crown.

Because, you know, Carlos Hyde might not make the Chief Raster. See what I do there? Really good. Really good. Speaking of Carlos Hyde, Craig, Craig is back. I'm back. Almost made the Raiders. Did he not?

He didn't make the Raiders? He almost did it. You guys missed me on Hard Knocks. I made a great catch in the corner of the end zone on a fade, but... When you left, Andrew Luck still played football. I know, I'm going to leave again, see who retires next. Or he'll come back. Who knows what happens.

Times a flat circle. So we're also going to get into the Fantasy Football Hall of Fame. Another thing that happened. You can go check that out on the ringer.com. It's really cool. It is really cool. We're going to... we're going to explain a little more about that

a little later on, but on the ringer.com we enshrined like the most fun and most amazing fantasy football players ever. We got one of those special builds. You should check it out. It's awesome. But first we're going to get into some news because some things happened. So how about that? So let's just jump into it, D.K.

Andrew Luck retired. Wow. Yeah. He said, quote, it's been unceasing in terms of talking about the pain has made playing football unceasing, unrelating both in season and offseason, taking the joy to the game. and after 2016, when I played in pain

and was unable to regularly practice, I made a vow to myself that I will not go down that path again. I think everyone agrees, you know, if you don't want to play football and be in constant pain, that works. The least important part of this is the fantasy football part, but it's also weirdly the thing we have to talk about first.

So how does this affect the rest of the Colts offense? Yeah. Immediately. It takes the ceiling of the entire offense and it lowers it significantly. Obviously, Jacobi Brissette is now the starting quarterback. We don't really know what his overall potential is.

He played in 2017 as a starter there. It did not go super well. But then again, he had to come in and learn a new offense. He was traded to the team like two weeks or a week before the season. And so it's kind of hard. And it was a whole new coaching staff now. So he's had a chance to learn and kind of get integrated into that coaching staff. Frank Reich is a really good play call in the sense that he,

protects his quarterbacks. The last year we saw that with Andrew Lucky got the ball out really fast. They went from being one of the worst teams in terms of giving up sacks to one of the best. So there's a lot of uncertainty around what Brissette can do in this offense, but I think it obviously just changes the overall ceiling of that offense. Every player, I think, in the offense really gets downgraded just a little bit. Before we get into that, I do want to just make one note on Brissette, which you mentioned, is that Frank Reich was the mastermind behind the Eagles' shifting mid-season from Carson Wentz to Nick Foles. So he has a lot of experience.

He is one of the most successful play callers and offensive designers of, oh, well, we got to shift to our backup now, and that obviously worked out amazingly. Yeah. And also, you mentioned the sack thing. So Brissette took over for Luck in 2017, and he was sacked 52 times.

And then they changed offenses. So they went from an offense that was giving up the most sacks in the league. And then in one year, luck was the least sacked in the league. So, I mean, that's a massive change. So there's, It's a totally different environment from in 2017, but he was terrible.

Yeah, like I said, I don't think you can look at 2017 and say, oh, that's what to expect from Brissette this season. But I do think, I mean, luck is just, he's a top 10 quarterback. We knew kind of what we were expecting. I think he finished second last year and touchdown passes. And so, you know, he's just one of those kind of guys that you could bank on having a high ceiling in that offense. And now it just puts everything up in the air. And I think we're seeing the ADP, the average draft position for a lot of the Colts skill position players drop pretty significantly with the news.

Plow it in. They all drop by like 25 to 35 spots. Yeah. Everyone on the offense. And I mean, that makes sense. Like, it scares you. You want to be involved. Like, you want your team to be filled with guys on good offenses, right? And so it just makes you think twice about someone like Marlon Mack, for instance, who's dropped 21 spots in Fantasy Pros consensus rankings over the weekend.

So, yeah, it's just, obviously, it's a huge, huge real football story, but it's also a major story for fantasy football. And it changes, I think, the outlook for a lot of these guys. Yeah, so Mack was going around 26th overall. He's slated to be the Colts main running back. He's went from 26. He's already fallen to around number 47. How do you see Mack in a luckless offense?

Yeah, and Mack was already sort of a very interesting potential bell cow player. I think there's varying opinions on what his upside was going to be this season, even when luck was the quarterback. And now that he's not, I think that hurts his value. So the game script, he was last year, he was very game script dependent. I saw this from Scott Barrett on Twitter. When the Colts won by 14 plus points, so in other words, when they were blowing teams out, Mac averaged 23.4 points per game, which is fourth best. And all the other games... Fourth best among running backs.

Right. And in all the other games, he averaged nine points for games. So in other words, he's very game. script dependent. If the Colts are winning, he's going to get more carries, he's going to get more action. And when they were losing, the team tended to turn to other guys, you know, Naheem Hines or whoever in the passing game to try and catch up. And so it really begs the question, like, what is Max's role going forward? Do we've heard whispers in the way that they've used him in the preseason sort of indicates that he could be a three down back, but now we don't

really know. And now it just feels like they're much less likely to be blowing teams out this year. more close games, more playing from behind. And I think that's exactly why we've seen Mack's ADP drop so significantly. Yeah, I mean, I think their win total on Vegas, the Rover Under went from something like nine and a half to close to like six and a half. Six and a half, yeah.

Fewer wins and then not as many blots. The one thing I'll say in defense of Mac is that, I mean, one, he's just talented. I think he could be a three-down back if he was able to stay healthy. But the second one is very few. The Colts have had a lot of injury problems behind him. Jordan Wilkins, who's a second-year player,

He's been out of practice with a foot injury since like July 30th or so. Spencer Ware, who they signed, I believe is still in the physically unable to perform list. They signed Deonté Foreman from Houston, and then he tore his bicep. He was waived. Jonathan Williams broke a rib this preseason. Now they've signed like Charcandric West and a couple kind of training camp bodies. But they really have just Nahim Hines, who is more of a past catching back behind him. So there is a chance that he could see a lot of volume, but like just staying on the field all the time,

just because they have no one else really behind Heinz. So do you want to do a quick name game with Marlon Mac? I would love to do the name game. Marlon Mac or Derek Henry. Mack. D.K. Oh, man. Mac, just because the Titans' offense looks like garbage right now.

Marlon Mac or Chris Carson. Carson. Oh, Carson easily for me. Marlon Mac or David Montgomery. I'm going Montgomery even. I think I... Montgomery, but... Wow.

So full disclosure, I was already a little bit lower than Mac. then I think maybe the consensus too, but I like Montgomery a lot. So that puts him kind of, based on where you guys said you liked him, right around the RB20 range, which is currently his ADP on Fantasy Pros. RB20 feels right,

a low-end RB2, middling RB2. I'd be more excited to own Mac than some of the other cults. So I think the person who falls the most is probably Ty White Hilton. And this is the biggest one. So he's falling from,

he was going around the mid-20s, like number 24 overall over the weekend. after the luck news, he dropped to like 55th overall by Fantasy Pro's consensus ratings. 55? 55? 55, would I say that weird? 55th? 55th?

Like with an a half? 55th is how people say. Fifth? I plead the fifth. I plead 55th because that's where Ty Wyilton is. So went from, like, the 10th wide receiver to the wide receiver, plead the 25th. Now, you could look at that two ways. You could look at that one as, well, that's too far.

Because when in 2017, if you just look at, you just look at, you just look at, you just look at, you at when Brissette was starting from week two to week 16. He was actually the 20th best receiver in that span across the whole span. But that's kind of misleading because that's a total, not a per game. And Hilton was so up. One of the more upper down seasons in recent memory, honestly, he had more than half of his receiving yards in three games, which is wild for a 14-game stretch.

And it was the only season of his career, he had less than 1,000 yards, and he had less than five touchdowns since he was like a rookie. But the flip side is what we said earlier, which is that Brissette is going to have, a way different offense and a way different experience and that in a way, T.Y. Hilton might actually be underrated around the top 30s.

So do you think, D.K., do you think he's going to be as boom or busts in 2017 or are you kind of interested in him around like the mid-50s in that range? Yeah, I think there's a point where he starts to fall so much and the market overcorrects and you can definitely get value on him. I think this offense is going to be a lot better than what we saw in 2017. I think Brissette is going to be a lot better than what we saw in 2017.

I just, I trust Reich to design. an offense that will accentuate his skill set. I think he's got a good skill set, you know. There's a couple of plays. Obviously, it's preseason, so all the caveats apply, but he was making plays where he steps up, avoids pressure, keeps his eyes downfield, navigates the pocket and throws downfield.

He was getting the ball out fast. This was last week, I believe, in the preseason game. And so, I don't know. I just think, you know, that's what we've seen of him in this offense. So it is obviously preseason football, but he looked really good. He looked confident, looked ready to kind of just take over. And he's not Andrew Luck, but they're not going to make him be Andrew Luck.

And so I do think there is a point there where you can start taking him and feeling okay with it because I still think he's a very, Hilton is a very good player. And this offense is going to be so much better than what we saw in 2017. TY was the wide receiver 33 in points per game in 2017. Yeah, see, the points per game was so different, but he stayed healthy so that he just, over the course of the year, it adds up. Just another reason, like, the season-long totals can be deceiving to say the least. Always look at per game.

It's, oh, yeah, it's a fantasy is a weekend game. Preset only through 13 touchdowns in 2017. So, all right, this is an important port, and I want to linger here. Because I had an argument with Riley McAtee, who DK's your editor earlier this morning, where we were talking about, Brissette's season. It's like, look, he showed up a week before the season started and then took over by week two. He was like 24. It was his second year league.

That is nuts. imagine just moving across the country, starting a new job, and then you're in charge at 20 people at 24 years old, you have to run an NFL offense, which you've never done. You've done two games, and now you're just starting a season. So how do they manage that? Well, they're just going to give you a limited option of what you're going to do, and then they're going to try to limit your turnovers.

So he threw 13 touchdowns and 7 picks. Guess what? The 7 picks is related to the 52 sacks. They are hand in hand. They told them, hold on to the damn ball. rather than put it up for a contested catch, because guess what? You've been here two weeks.

There's only so much hero ball you can play. So those go hand in hand. And I think that now you have, instead of a player who's been there two weeks, he's been there 18 months. Instead of having to learn a bad offense, which is the Rod Chudzzyzinski thing with Chuck Bagano,

and Chudzinski was the offensive coordinator, he's learning a good offense from Frank Reich, which he had 18 months to learn, and the offensive line healthy. That offensive line in 2017, I believe their left tackle, Anthony Costanzo was hurt. The center of Ryan Kelly was very good was hurt. And then the rest of the guys are, no offense, the Raven Clark, but bad right tackles.

Now they have Braden Smith a right tackle. They have Quentin Nelson at left guard. It's like they have a better team. The whole line is better. The skill players are better. The coach is better. And he has 18 months instead of two weeks. So I don't think there's any comparison, including the sacks and the picks thing, because he's a big arm.

He's kind of like, funnily enough, I actually do see a comparison between him and Garapolo and that they're kind of risk takers, or at least gunslingers who don't really have that label either of them. but they kind of put it some balls. And I think we might see more of that than people think. I think the reason they kept him around is because he has more gunslinger DNA in common with luck than people understand because he only threw 13 touchdowns and seven picks.

But I think that was just, you showed up two weeks early. His deep ball accuracy in 2017 was actually really pretty good. He was one of the better deep ball throw. He didn't throw it deep a lot, but he showed the ability to kind of connect deep. And so I think that's going to be a big part of it. I'm with you. I think, you know, based on everything you said,

it's just going to be a more well-oiled machine than what we saw in 2017. You know who I actually kind of like in this offense this year? And he's already been a sleeper. But Devin Funches, I think, is probably going to get a lot of targets because he's sort of the – and I was watching the preseason game, and he's running a lot of these crossing routes over the middle of the field where they do three-step, five-step drops. He hits his back foot and then he lets the ball go. I think he's going to get a ton of those targets, Funches is.

And so in PPR especially, I think he could be kind of a sneakie. key value right now. I loved him before the luck injury, and now I don't really know what to make, to be totally honest. Because at least Hilton and percent do have a track record of some sort. I have no idea what to make a fun chess. Also, the other one I wanted to ask about is Eric Ebron and Jack Doyle, because even before luck got hurt, the knock with Ebron was obviously 13 touchdowns last year.

One of the best touchdown seasons for any tight end ever. I believe it's one of the top five. He had more touchdowns last year than the rest of his career combined, more than his entire Detroit tenure. shouts to Lions fans and fact-checker shocker. Doyle, but when the five games they had, this is a great stat from Derek Brown of the Quant Edge, Jack Doyle and the games that Doyle and Ebron played together,

there were five of them. Doyle had more snaps, more targets, more red zone targets, and ran more routes in those five games by like a lot. So now they're going to be healthy together, at least as long as they're healthy together, Ebron was already the questionable prospect of whether, well, do you think he's going to get 13 touchdowns? That's unlikely.

Also, Doyle was better than him. Now Luck is out. I don't really think I draft either, and then I would just keep my eyes on Jack Doyle in case he completely usurps Ebron, or if Ebron is just an amazing Red Zone guy and we're wrong. So switching gears, staying in the AFC South. The other news, well, the news that was the news

before Andrew Luck decided to retire. Houston running back Lamar Miller, tore his ACL, on a preseason game. And MCL. And MCL. So he's done for the year. I got fact checked. Yeah, he's out for the year.

and the Texans were already one of the least deep teams at running back in the entire league before this happened. I mean, they traded for Duke Johnson. Evan Silva at Rota World is, sorry, no, it's not Roto World anymore. Establish the run, still getting used to it. That's like when a player changes teams, you can't get used to it. But he makes a great point that it's kind of an under the radar transaction, but the Duke Johnson trade to the Texans was the most draft capital

a team has given up for a running back since the Colts gave a first for Trent Richardson. Wow. So it was a conditional third rounder, and it's a fourth rounder for, and then that could become a third. And if that becomes a third either way, that's the most of the teams paid. And Evans point, which I agree with him, is that they're going to give him a lot of snaps. That's before Lamar Miller got hurt. So for starters, I think that they think Duke is probably a better runner than Cleveland thought. Or at the least, they're like, we're going to line this guy up all over the field.

He can be on the field at the same time as a primary ball carrier because Duke Johnson is along with Kamara and James White one of the best pass catching guys in the league. You can line up in the slot. Now he's kind of primed to be the starter. And the guys behind him are like a who's who of who. It's like Damaria Crockett, who's an undrafted free agent in Missouri, is like the next in line for being a starter,

at least 511, 225 pounds. Maybe. They might just sign Carlos Hyde if the Chiefs cut Carlos Hyde. So, D.K., what do you make of the Texan situation? Do you buy Duke Johnson as, not even at every downback, but a second and third downback? Where would you take Duke Johnson?

and do you see someone emerging elsewhere in this backfield or them adding more help or sticking with Duke? I mean, I think it helps Duke Johnson a ton. I think it makes Duke Johnson's value skyrocket. And I like him potentially more. Like, for instance, right now, Kenyon Drake is running back 29. Tarreek Cohen is running back 28. I think I would take him above both of those guys.

In that range of 60s and 70s, maybe. So that to me is kind of right now his ADP is running back 35, 87th overall. I think I would take Johnson over Rashad Penny. I would probably take him over, I might take him over Austin Eccler. I just think he's going to get more play. He's going to get more volume. I think Duke Johnson has been penciled in in fantasy players' mind as just kind of strictly this pass catcher.

Like a change of pace. If you look at Duke Johnson in college at Miami, he averaged 16 carries a game and only two catches a game. He's a really good runner. He only two catches a game in Miami? I don't know that. Wow. He had 242 carries in his final season in Miami. I think that's the question because I think, I mean, D.K., there's this,

you've talked about this a lot. There's this idea that there's really false positions and that there are some running backs that are really receiving backs. James White is the obvious example, and I've always thought of Duke Johnson as a receiving back, but I don't think the Texans give up a third rounder unless they're like, this guy can be on the field for us in first out. I don't like to guess what,

I don't like to use logic when it comes to the Texans necessarily. Well, yeah, that is actually an important thing. They don't have a gym. But I do agree with you, like, in theory, that that's a lot to give up for a guy and not make him your feature back, especially now that there's been the injury. So I think right now I'm bullish on Duke Johnson, and then I think it's worth taking a flyer,

you know, adding a guy like Damaret Crockett, Kron Higden, whoever you think, and no one really knows what it's going to turn out to be, whoever you think is the next man up for the backup job, I think the two guys, most people think it is, is going to be either Kron Higden or Damaree Crockett, but we don't really know at this point. That's the best counter to the draft capital argument is that the Texans front office is a three-man out like rotation of just like Bill O'Brien, Jack Easterby, and their player personnel guy, and it's who knows what's going on there? I mean it's like Bill O'Brien in theory is on a short, you know, he's like on the hot seat.

So he's not thinking long term and he's at the GM and like giving up a third round pick or whatever. Like I don't know necessarily if we can apply logic to that choice. I think he's just like wants to be good this year. So I don't know what that means. But I think I do think I am bullish on Duke Johnson. One last note on the Texans, Kiki QT, their third receiver returned from a sprained ankle. this week. And then another player

who seems like he will return is Antonio Brown. Yeah. Lost his helmet appeal. Sorry, his helmet grievance. And then apparently has parleyed that into an endorsement deal. This whole thing was just a scam

to get a good endorsement from a helmet company, I think, which it's brilliant. It's genius. Everything just comes down to Spondon in our lives now. Todd Gurley's puppy or kitten was fake and like part of the Hulu.

Oh my God. Don't believe anything anymore. God Gurley's kitten was named like Hulu has live sports, and that was both, like, really made me feel terrible inside, but I was like, damn, what took so long? That's brilliant. We're going to sponsor someone's kitten. Speaking of which, should we take a break to talk about today's sponsors?

That's there. Wow. Let's take a quick break. We've all made some bad choices in life. Like doing your fantasy draft before Andrew Luck announces this retirement. Don't let missing out on fantasy football be one of them. It's not too late to create or join a league on Yahoo. football rules.

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exclusive student discounts are also available. Okay, so more news to get to. There is a roundtable of fantasy news from all the beatwriters at the Athletic, and Vincent Bonnier, who covers the Rams for the Athletic, had a good tidbit on Todd Gurley that isn't necessarily new information, but it's finally reporting out what we've kind of suspected, which is that Gurley's knee isn't the problem right now as much as the Rams do have a plan to make sure that he stays healthy throughout the year.

All right. So yeah, this definitely relates to an article I'm writing right now for the ringer.com. Great website. It's basically about Todd Gurley's crater of a fantasy football playoffs in 2018 and versus his 2017 fantasy playoffs, which was literally the best of all time. They want to keep him healthy throughout the full season. They want his knee and his legs to be fresh all the way into January, you know, December and January. you know, December and January. And so this is obviously very significant for the Rams as a team and for fantasy football and for fantasy playoffs.

So basically, you know, they're probably going to end up managing his touches early in the season. This is something that we've kind of thought was going to happen. But to me, him, Vincent Bonson, you are saying all this kind of reinforces what I'm thinking that they're going to have a pretty strong, I guess, you know, not committee necessarily, but they're going to give, you know, the number two or three guy a significant amount of playing time,

whether that's Daryl Henderson or Malcolm Brown or John Kelly or whoever. So I think to me this is pretty, you know, this is significant news or a significant report. You know, I think he's kind of giving his opinion, but it's it is what we've thought. Yeah, it's worth reading, it's worth reading what he wrote. So he said, this is quoting Vincent Bonsignor. He said, quote, it's not so much the status of the need that should be concerning. it's the Rams plan to manage Gurley's workload that should be a bit worrisome.

Gurley has looked healthy, active and explosive throughout camp for now anyway. The knee appears fine. The Rams, though, want to keep it that way and have a plan in place that they hope will ensure he's an optimal form come December and January that likely includes monitoring and managing his touch and snap count, especially in the first part of the season.

By slowing down his workload, the question becomes how much will that affect his numbers? And then that goes into, I mean, I think that this has been the plan all along. I mean, Gurley's trainer told CBS is David Richard earlier this summer. He said, everybody, he said, quote, he's now at the five-year-five mark. All we're doing is managing his arthritis because they knew that it was going to be a thing coming out of Georgia. And then quoting as a trainer, he said, they're keeping his weight down, working on his strength, working on his agility in short areas.

That's going to give him a better chance to be healthy in weeks 14 through week 17 when they really count. So I think that Gurley's, it's not going to help fantasy owners a ton when he's healthy January, but I think that is the plan. This news is like, it's very interesting because it almost makes me like Gurley a little bit more. So just to jog your memory, and this is what I wrote about for the ringers,

it's a companion piece to our Fantasy Hall of Fame thing, which again is really, really cool. Last year in 2018, through 13 weeks, Gurley, he trailed only Patrick Mahomes and PPR points. He averaged 27.4 points for game, up into week, up through week

13, over the next three weeks. So that was the fantasy playoffs, his production cratered yet. He scored 5.8 PPR points in week 14, was held out of the lineup in week 16, and he ultimately finished in that three-week stretch, 54th among all players in fantasy postseason PPR points. So he was a PPR, he was a fantasy playoffs disaster. If he got you there, he did not help you once you got there.

This year, I think that that could definitely change. I don't think he's necessarily going to match what he did in 2017, but again, just to jogging, memory. His 2017 postseason or fantasy postseason was literally the best of all time. He had, having him in your lineup was like having an extra flex player or two sometimes, just

in your lineup. He had, so just to run through it, he scored eight touchdowns in three games. He rushed for 365 yards, five touchdowns, caught 16 passes, 225 yards, three touchdowns through the air. He totaled 123 PPR points. That's a 41 point

average in those three weeks. Um, that's easily the most in the last decade. And it was 35 points more than the second place finiture, which was Levyon Bell. Um, so I mean, like he was significantly, significantly, significantly well above everyone else at the position. Um, he had in weeks 15 and 16, so like your semis in championship rounds, he scored 49, sorry, he scored 45 and then 49 points. I mean, he was just like, he literally. carried fantasy teams to wins. I don't know if that's going to happen this year,

but him being in there and having his knee be healthy all the way through the postseason, it kind of makes me like him a little bit more. Just like that, that's their plan. So Gurley averaged 26.6 points per game in 2018, which was number one amongst running backs. Even if he did 75% of that this year, that would put him at 19.95 points per game,

which last year would have made him the running back nine. So he's still an RB1. He's still in RB1, even if he's 20. 25% worse than last year. He's the R. B. 9. So don't let the hate go too far in your draft, perhaps. Yeah. Where are you willing to take him at this point?

Everything really does come full circle in fantasy. I feel like you hate somebody and then you wait long enough until you like him again and then you wait too long and then you don't like him. It's just like Gurley is now in the range where, hey, you know, maybe he is a good value. And then people will overdraft him after hearing this pod because millions of people listen this podcast. Millions. We move the needle.

We move the needle. Are you going to take him? at, so right now is ADP in PPR is 14. Are you taking him early second round? I, no. I'm taking him late second. Okay. I'm taking him right after Nick Chubb and right after Nick Chubb before Delvin Cook, I think.

That's where I find it acceptable. Well, I mean, obviously, except who cares what I think? Well, your moral standing in fantasy, but I, I, that's where I would start to think about it. And I wouldn't pull Trigg till later because I just, it's just, I just really like the crop of running backs in the 20s and 30s. I think Carry on Johnson, to some extent, Aaron Jones, Mark Ingram, Sony, Michelle, I think are all undervalued, actually. I mean, we joked it when we were doing our top 50 ranking

that I would take the guys in 35 to 50 and swap them with 20 to 35. And like, that's a joke, but like, not really. So I just find so much value in the running backs later that I kind of just love the receivers in the teens. Yeah, so if you get Kerry on Johnson and Juju instead of taking Todd-Gar. I prefer Odell and Carry-on Johnson. Johnson, yeah, by a lot, then Gurley and Adam Thielen. Yeah.

Like a lot. I can't even overstate that. You're here first. Todd Gurley, might be good still. Yeah. I mean, that's the bottom line. It is like, throughout the last few weeks, like you said, it has gone full circle for me. I really, really loved Darrell Henderson like a month ago.

The third round pick out of Memphis that is they have compared Alvin Kamara because everyone loves to compare everyone to Alvin Kamara now. Yeah. And I was really down on Gurley. for a long time. And I've come kind of full circle on it. Now I feel like pretty good about Gurley and I'm very much less confident

about what Henderson's going to do. So I don't know. It's one of those things where you can almost like overthink it, but just based on the idea that they want to keep him fresh all the way through the year, I almost feel like that makes me like him

a little bit more. Just, you know, because I'm so worried that he's just going to fall off a cliff. That's like the main thing. Yeah, I don't want that with my second round pick. But speaking of that, You wrote a companion piece for the Fantasy Hall of Fame package that we did. You wrote a companion piece that's looking at the best fantasy playoff performances

from the last 10 years. And Gurley was Mainstay, the best. But you also looked at a bunch of other fantasy playoff performances that were spectacular. There's a lot of them, obviously. And I think it's easy to forget. The one guy that kind of just stood out to me was Levyon Bell. It's easy to forget how freaking dominant he was as a fantasy player. especially late in the year

because he held out all of 2018 and kind of really screwed people over. I mean, obviously, that's not what he was worried about, but in fantasy it did screw people over and took him early on. He owns three of the top 10 fantasy postseason scoring in PPR over the last 10 years, 2016, 2014, and 2017.

So he finished fourth in PPR in 2016 in that three-week stretch late in the season, 6th and 2014 and 10th in 2017. So he's a late season monster. And to me that's one thing that kind of stood out. Like I said, you kind of forget about it because he hasn't been a part of football for the last whatever months.

And so 12 months plus. And so that was one thing that definitely stood out to me. We'll see how it works out in New York. But he's been the type of guy, like when the weather gets cold, when it's snowy out, and when it's cold and rainy, and he just dominates. The other one that relates to last year, which is just something that I keep coming back to, is Derek Henry's 2018.

His fantasy playoffs, like, explosion was just hilarious. He posted 47 points in week 14, carried ball 17 times for 238 yards and four touchdowns. The only problem was only 14% of teams had him started that game. And very few of them were probably in the playoffs. Yeah, so I don't know. That one was another one. Obviously, it's really funny. And it probably is influencing where people are taking him this year.

Like that finish, I think, has definitely sort of inflated his value to the point where I just haven't taken him in any drafts. Plus, I just think the Titans offense has not looked good in the preseason. I don't think it's going to be that good. And so, yeah. Yeah, Dick, Derek Henry's performance at the end of the last year was probably the best example. I can think of of why season long fantasy points are often a lie.

And also why he is the new Armourri Cooper, the friend zone, which is there's like two or three nights a year where you're like, oh, maybe there's something here. And then that just screws you because then you have this idea in your head that that can work long term

and it can't. Amari Cooper can work long term, but that's neither here nor there. He's a better chance that Henry is not, but the girly thing is worth sticking with because girly two years ago was incredible. And I remember there was that screen that he caught, I think you linked to this in your piece,

he just caught that screen, he just zoomed for like 75 yards. And it's wild. Yeah, it was a little bit traumatic for me because that was like when the Rams basically took over the NFC West. And one of those games, I think it was week 14 or 15, they just dominated the Seahawks. And I was like, okay, the Seahawks rain in the NFC West is officially over at this point.

But yeah, that was a traumatic moment for me. Well, sorry. On that note, by the way, I was going to say this, I was going to say this about Derek Henry. Before his fantasy playoffs explosion, he was averaging 7.9 points per game. He scored 95 fantasy points in the 12 games prior, which would have put him at 144th overall.

So just keep that in mind. It's also just a good note back to Ty White Hilton. Like, you know, the people who had him in 2017 probably didn't play them for two of those three games we had 170 yards. So it's tough. That's boom or bust players, man. Don't give me to Strong Jackson this year.

Before we move on to the Fantasy Hall of Fame, let's take a quick break. Here's an insider travel secret from Hotel Tonight. There are tons of empty hotel rooms out there just waiting to be booked. Hotel Tonight teams up with awesome hotels to help them sell these rooms and then passes those savings along to you.

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If you want to swipe again, you can unlock a new deal every day. It's a great way to take an even more spontaneous trip because you never know what you're going to get. From staycations to weekend getaways, great hotel deals are just one swipe away. Go to Hotel Tonight.com or download the app to unlock your daily drop. RK., it's time. Yeah. We've done it. We have enshrined the most iconic fantasy players of all time into the full-on Hall of Fame.

You can check it out on the ringer.com. We have a special build. It's awesome. It's really cool. It's in the format of my NFL draft guide, kind of. It's like, it's really awesome. have to check it out. It's fantastic. And yeah, your guide was beautiful. Dare I say, this one's even a little prettier. They've got, like, the main picture. And then they've, and then they've

got the picture of, like, the guy, like, looking off into the distance, like he's fading away. It's beautiful. But we're going to run through some names. I mean, so we've inducted a whole new class. I mean, there's a lot of obvious names in here, like Peyton Manning and Ledani and Tomlinson and Emmett Smith and all the jazz. There's also some less obvious names in here, but you can check it out. It's really fun. But we're just going to run through just a couple of nests. notes that were really fun to stand out. Obviously, the best fantasy season of all time is Ladinian Thomas in 2006, 417 fantasy points. One thing I just wanted to note, which kind of blows my mind, 33 touchdowns, 28 rushing,

three receiving, two passing. He led the league in rushing yards, and if you took away all of his yardage, so league leading 1860 rushing yards, takeaways, 508 receiving yards, didn't gain any yards. His 33 touchdowns would have been the 10th best running back in 2006. Fun fact, that was the first year I ever played fantasy football. I was 12, and I remember playing against Ledanyan Tomlinson. It felt like every game he would throw a touchdown, run a touchdown, and catch a touchdown. I was like, what? Is this normal?

And then no one ever did it again. And I was like, I guess that wasn't normal. There had been no running, like there are trick plays. Like there was Antoine Randallel, but there's no running backs that actually have really do that before or since. Perhaps Josh Jacobs now, former quarterback in high school. Yeah, see, that's a stat. That's a little tidbit you always get about receivers.

but no running backs are ever quarterbacks in high school. Well, they're all quarterbacks in high school. Everyone can do everything in high school is in the NFL. Except me. I didn't make the Raiders, but... Oh, shit. D.K., you're both speaking to the Seahawks, your beloved, beloved Sean Alexander. I thought it was interesting going through this exercise.

My memory of that time is pretty foggy, but obviously that 2005 season where he scored 28 touchdowns, that was the NFL record at the time. Obviously, the Danian Tomlinson broke it, as we talked about just now with 33 the next year. But Alexander was, I think, in that stretch from 2001 to 2005, you can even tack on 2006. In that stretch, he was, I think, second only to Tomlinson as like one of the most dominant backs in the NFL. I kind of just forget that.

I think you think about 2005 when he was so good and he was running behind the Seahawks elite offensive line. But you forget that he did it for like five years straight. I mean, from 2001 to 2005 before Tomlinson broke you. his record in 2006. Alexander had 87 touchdowns, 1,500 yards rushing, 1,300 yards through the air plus 11 touchdowns.

I mean, he was basically second only to Tomlinson as the most dominant back. I mean, and I kind of just forgot that. It is kind of a long time ago now, which my memory starts to get a little bit foggier with each passing year, but it was fun to go back and look at Alexander's just elite stats

in that five-year stretch for him. Yeah, he was kind of that middle domino between Priest Holmes broke the rushing record, and then Shaw Alexander broke it a couple years later, and then Tomlinson shattered it the next year, and it was like everyone was falling. The way we talk about passing going up every year, it was kind of like how running backs were from the mid-aughts. Exactly. And I feel like that's probably going to be the apex of just the run game in the NFL forever, right? Because I think it's just at this point, no one's going to run as much as those guys did.

I think everything comes back. I think that the individual records will probably stand. I think the team records, I'm never going to count anything out for a team-wide thing. Sean Alexander only played eight years in the NFL, which is very different than our next inductee. This is very true. Jerry Rice,

who, word on the street, really good at football. Basically, the long-store shot, I know everyone was not playing fantasy football in the 90s, but... Some people were. Bill Simmons was. Bill Simmons was. So Rice was just as good of fantasy football, possibly better. The season that blew my mind was 1987,

22 touchdowns in 12 games. That obviously got broken by Randy Moss in 2007, who needed 16 games to get 23. Sad. Rice had 250 fantasy points in 1987 in 12 games, and the only people who've had more than that since are Jerry Rice and Randy Moss, even though they have four more games each year. So Jerry Rice, legend.

And just because I want to cap this off, first 10 years of Jerry Rice's career, his rookie year is the 22nd receiver. After that, his finishes among wide receivers each year. First, first, first, first, first, first, second, first, first, second, first, first, fourth. He did not drop out of the top two until he was 34, and then he fell the fourth. And then if you think it's just Bill Walsh and Joe Montan and Steve Young and the 49ers' offense, when he went to the Raiders at 39 years old, he was the 12th best fantasy receiver on the season.

And then at 40 years old, he was the, or sorry, he's the 11th best best. at 39, and then he was the 12th best at 40. So, wow. And when you said 250 fantasy points, I'm assuming that's standard. Yes, exactly. Because that's a whole Hall of Fame, in my opinion. PPR, which now seems overwhelming, has just taken over in the last three years. But for the vast majority, as it should, yeah.

Weird eccentric thing. So to put that in reference of last year, Tyree Kill led the season with 15.1 points per game. And Jerry Rice would have done 20. Casual 20. A casual 20 a game. five points more than number two. It's totally fine. Wow.

Wow. But there's one more player I want to talk about before we move on from this segment. And it's an appreciation for Rob Grunkowski. That guy was, I don't think people have forgotten it, clearly. But that guy was amazing. He was incredible. The other 29-year-old to retire this off-season. Yeah.

So he, obviously he struggled with injuries. I just thought this was amazing. But even though he missed 29 games in his career, he caught more touchdowns than any other player in his time in the league. He was a touchdown freak. This stat I got from Scott Barrett, too. Pro Football Focus is expected touchdown metric, which it tracks play-by-play data.

So it's taking where everyone is standing on the field, where they're getting their target, the amount of air yards, blah, blah, blah, like all the different stats that matter in terms of where you are. And then they spit out a number of touchdowns that a perfectly average player would have scored, given those opportunities, those targets and the air yards and where you're on the field, all that. According to that stat,

Gronk scored 24.1 touchdowns over expectation during his career. That is the most among all players in the decade. He was just a freaking beast. He was so good. Did not have the longevity, but the peak was probably the best for any tight end of all time. That's one of the best of any past catcher. Yeah, I think he was the most dominant tight end ever in terms of what he could do.

on the field both blocking and just his red zone has touched his ability to body up anybody on the field. I think he was the most dominant tight end of all time. Yeah, he's, even when he's covered, he's open, is one of the most frustrating things because it's overused, but it's more true for

Gronk than probably anyone else in NFL history. Okay, and last up, we want to cover just some fantasy football, one-hit wonders. These were compiled by your editor, Riley McAtee. Shout to Riley. A lot of this was his brainchild. This was his baby, yeah, really really cool project. First up,

the obvious one, Peyton Hillis of the Browns, 2010. Can you remember that season? That was so much fun. He was on the cover. He was on the cover of Madden. That was the year that Madden opened it up to fan voting and it's kind of like when that the Brit, like England was like, oh, we're going to let everyone vote on like the name for this research vessel and then Bodie McBoatface one. It was like that was before even

that happened when it wasn't obvious that the internet would ruin democracy in all forms. And it was like, Peyton on the cover of Madden. And I remember that he was like coaching a youth football team like two years later in mid-August

and the Giants were like, hey, you want to come. Like he was out of football two years later. So wow. That was a lot fun. He had 16, so 1,654 scrimmage yards,

13 touchdowns, rumbling and tumbling, jumping over guys. That was just a lot of fun to watch that season. I remember that. He had six touchdowns over the rest of his career.

Eish. Amazing stuff Sticking with the Browns The other one-hit wonder Actually one of the most One-Hit Wonder people of all time Josh Gordon Where he just decided to be

Ready Moss for 2013 16-146 receiving yards Nine touchdowns Still the only back-to-back 200-yard receiving games In NFL history The biggest and fastest And strongest person on the field

Perhaps not a one-hill wonder this year We never know Hopefully not he has a chance to erase that label. Hopefully not, indeed. The other one, this one ended up being one hit wonder. Justin Forset on the Ravens in 2014, nine-year career, but in 2014,

1,529 yards and eight touchdowns. He was a fun-hound. How did that happen? Yeah. He came out of nowhere, man. I think he was, if I remember correctly, he was like a sixth-round pick out of Cal. He was Marshaun Lynch's,

roommate at Cal. And I remember this because he was a Seahawk very briefly, and I believe they cut him. Seventh rounder, yeah. Yeah, and he bounced around. He played for the Seahawks for a while. He played for the Ravens. Really fun runner. He's just like a really explosive,

you know, jittery runner. I don't think he was like necessarily built to be a Bell Cow type back every year, but he got an opportunity in 2014 and took advantage of it. I was a huge four-set fan. I just always thought he was really fun to watch. Never ran for more than 700 yards in any other season.

Yeah. Running back. It's got the right opportunity. Speaking of running back to weird, right opportunity. Steve Slayton in 2008 one of the deepest of cuts. 1659 yards, 10 touchdowns at his rookie season. Wow. And the Arian Foster explosion before Arian Foster

was even Arian Foster. It was that wide zone system in Houston, I think. And like they just found guys could really run in it. Steve Slate was one of them. Foster was better, though. It was out of the league within four years.

But that year, as a rookie, he was one of the top five fantasy running backs. Sorry, sixth among all running backs. So what the hell? We hold one hit wonders near and dear to our heart zone fantasy. We love him. That's what we live for, you know? Who's going to be the Steve Slaten,

the rookie running back this year? I mean, Darwin Thompson is the best possible. One year and then he's gone. I think Damien Williams having like an extended hamstring absence and then Darwin Thompson being like a top five guy. But then he's a six round pick and the chiefs just find another running back next year. If I had to put money on someone being like top 10 and then we'd never hear from the game is Darwin Thompson. Maybe we should close this episode with our favorite one hit wonder songs. Lou Bega, Mamba number five.

Just a classic. Wow. Okay. Okay. Oh, man. Panda by designer. Wow. I don't even know what that is.

On brand. DK, you must have a one-hit wonder. Is this like on-brand meaning like I'm old or are you trying to call me like a millennial? Because you sort of like go between the two. It's whatever fits the conversation. Yeah, it's whatever makes me sound right in the moment or better. Which is so Gen Z of you. Okay, this is probably going to, this is going to confirm Danny and saying that I'm old.

But I'm going to say the safety dance by men without hats. Is it men without hats? You got it. Sing it. Sing it. I know you know this. You know it. We can dance, everyone.

We can leave all friends behind. TK. But we're going to leave all of you behind right there. So thank you for listening. Thank you for bearing with us through men without hats. Men with hats. Who knows? But we'll be back later this week.

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