The Ringer NFL Show - The Backup QB Landscape, Hurts’s and Tua’s Futures, and Belichick’s Decision-making

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

Nora and Mal answer 10 listener questions about who would win the Super Bowl if every starting QB were out, whether Jared Goff should be benched, the futures of Hurts and Tua, and much more. Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Mallory Rubin Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringer gambling show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the ringer gambling show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Princeati, here as always on Thursday.

Thursdays with Mallory Rubin. Mallory is air drumming in the air. Those might have been like air Maracas or something. What's what's going on there, Mal? Drums. I was going for, I think, the symbols, you know, at that point. Really just an emphatic greeting, delighted to be here with you as always. And, you know, the music, the takes, they're flowing through us.

It's fantastic. It's fantastic. Getting ready for for week seven of the NFL season. Unbelievable. ready for red Taylor's version, getting ready for new Adele, just like a lot going on. I love fall. I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you.

You know, you have Taylor and Adele. I have Dune and Eternals. Oh, yes. Big time for both of us. I've been learning about Dune a little bit. Yeah. I'm unclear like the plot of Dune, but I've been trying to get caught up because I think I'm going to see that. Oh, it's one of my favorite books of all times.

I am a seminal sci-fi text. If you have any questions about spice, about sandworms, about Mwadib, anything. I'm here for you. Okay. Okay. Dune. Desert Planet. Let's table this because I think I need to do a little bit more like preliminary research so that I can ask you, like, I want to ask you, I value your time.

I are urban. So I want to be asking you like second level questions as opposed to I don't understand the point of this, which is where I am now, but I think I'm hopefully going to advance that a little bit further in the coming days. You're going to love it. And we can we can do a little circle back and discuss a little bit in a little bit more detail, which is what we're going to do today in a very special mailbag episode of the Thursday Ringar NFL show. We just felt like we're kind of getting to the middle of the season. There's less clean cut quarter point, halfway point with the 17 game schedule. So what better to do than to just do a check-in because we feel like it?

I love a mailbag. Do you love a mailbag, Mallory? I love a mailbag. I love to hear from our listeners. I love to have kind of like a variety bag episode, lots of topics. You know, if we redo this, run it back soon, or we have our usual dip into the bag at the end of the pod in future weeks. Maybe we'll get questions about Dune now that we've had this little Dune aside. So that's something to look forward to

to the next week. Nora, you will have no problem studying up because we're going to have a lot of pods coming on Dune on the Ringiverse. That's good. Follow along on Spotify or wherever you get you. It was a real win for me to realize that this was something that, like, if I were to watch, I could do so on HBO. Yeah.

I could do so from the comfort of my own home. That's always just a huge win. Great stuff. To be clear, I love the movie theater experience. It's very important to me. but sometimes if I don't know, like if I don't really understand a film, but I know that like I have friends who want to see it or whatever, just being able to, you know, click that on,

be in the comfort of my own home. That's a real win. So I'm excited about it. And I'm excited about this mailback. Our first question comes from Jean-Paul Scott on Twitter. It is, who wins the Super Bowl if every starting quarterback was out. Ooh. Every starting quarterback.

Wow. What a grim but intriguing and thought-provoking. Fascinating. How did you think about this one, Mal? So obviously, sadly, it's a well-timed question given that we have so many backup quarterbacks playing right now, including some new high-profile situations. Case Keenum is going to be playing for the Browns with Baker out with the torn laborman on the non-throwing shoulder. Obviously, Gino has been playing for Seattle with Russ and the finger injury. On and on the list goes, we've seen a lot of backups out in the field this year. I think that, you know, when you're thinking in isolation about one team in a vacuum scenario,

you can think like just purely who's the best backup, start there. You can also think about it through the lens of which team is maybe least dependent on its starting quarterback and thus best position to account for that absence, or just third, like more broadly, strongest roster, best coaching staff, best scheme that can compensate for a loss like that. Or you can kind of combine all those. Because this question asks us to think about the entire field, right, the entire NFL landscape, being starting quarterback lists, I sort of went with a brew of all of these different considerations.

And I do think that Keenham and the Browns have to be in the mix here, in the mix of contenders for the pick because both of the measure of the drop-off and change, right, between the starter and the backup and also just the overall roster strength and offensive approach. I think right now in this very moment, the injuries at running back for the Browns would be a factor. But if we're going long term, maybe less so when you feel better about that pick. thought about the Rams here because, to be clear, to be clear, you know I am incredibly pro Stafford.

It's a pro-stafford podcast on the Rams, the Stafford-McVeigh marriage for it. We do know, though, that McVeigh is more than capable of scheming for a less adept quarterback. We know he loves Wofford. And that roster is just so good and so, strong overall that I would feel confident putting that roster out against other starting quarterback list teams. And then of course I have to throw out the same snora. It's a bit of a cheat

because Taysam Hill went healthy, of course, is so routinely in the mix already that it almost feels like this pick maybe like subverts the spirit of the exercise. But I think that's also why it has to be the pick. So I'm going to. going with the Saints because I think there's just one of the smallest learning curves and the ability to maybe not run a traditional offense, but to invent and innovate, find a spark, and to put out right away an offensive squad that knows how to work together

and win together. Going with the Saints. What about you? So I tried to find the center of the Venn diagram between teams that have solid backup quarterback situations and teams that have rosters that would be competitive without their starting quarterback. And again, the thing we have to remember

is this is a universe in which no team has their starter. I started with who the best backups are because the most important position in the game, I think you have to start with who is going to get quality backup play. So that for me, you've got guys like Marcus Mariotta. Taysam, the thing that would cause me to disagree a little bit with your Saints pick, I think it's a good one.

I think they're definitely in the mix for that final four. The only problem is... Are you going to mention throwing the football? I don't like it when he does that, which is sort of a problem for quarterback play. He's such a change of pace for them. And that's why it works. What happens when he's no longer the change of force?

What happens when the change of pace becomes the pace? Yeah. Let's find out. Troubling, troubling. I'm not sure I want to find out now. Okay. But so then we've got... we've got the tribiscuit.

We've got the trabiscuit factor up in Buffalo. Wow. Biscuit. Holy shit. Biscuit reference early on in the Thursday pod. I'm floored right now. Who saw it coming? We don't know. No one.

Literally no one. Not even biscuit. Keenum definitely merits inclusion. Colt McCoy in Arizona. Colt McCoy is a capable backup. The problem with this one to me is they get so much out of Kyler. Like, Kyler's just on God mode. going from Kyler to Colt, I think, is going to sink the Cardinals.

I don't think they have any way of withstanding that. So that one's a little bit troubling for me. That's a tough one. Nora, I know what you love. You love learning about Marvel. I do. It's been one of our bonding exercises on me. The idea of, as sound as the McCoy point is,

the idea of the Cardinals without Kyler feels to me of a piece with Loki season one, spoiler here. Seeing the infinity stones just piled up as paperweights in a drawer in the TVA, right? When you take the magic away, it doesn't work. You are absolutely right, Mallory Rubin. I have a full understanding of what you are talking about. Can't wait to hear more about your favorite infinity stone. You're like you're a soul stone.

The rolling stones? Enthusiast, I think. Those are some old stones. Those are the oldest stones I can think of. All right. The other thing that we have to talk about here is, so there are the sort of murky, rookie situations, right? The situations are a little bit clear who's the backup here,

who's the starter? I think we can say squarely, Justin Fields is the starter now. Tray Lance is starting. Yeah. But it seems as though he's not sort of destined to be the starter their long term. I think if Tray Lance merits inclusion here, the 49ers would be my pick. to topple the case Keenham-led Browns in the Super Bowl.

I think my final four would be San Francisco, New Orleans, Cleveland, and Buffalo. I'm picking Cleveland over Buffalo in the AFC just because I think they're less reliant on very good quarterback play. And then New Orleans, I think I've said my piece on that. So we'll leave it there. That said, if Lance, by virtue of starting when Jimmy Garabolo is, out or if he got the job later on in the season. If he is disqualified from this, then I would, I think I would, I would probably have to ride with Taysen.

I avoided the Niners situation because of the murkiness. But I think you could, obviously, as you just did, use that murkiness to argue your case, right? And use Shanahan's continued commitment to Jimmy G. despite having drafted Trey Lance and clearly, you know, intending to build around him long term for the future, you could use that in your favor here to make the case. I'm compelled by that. I avoided it because I was afraid of the murkiness, but you're bold.

You're going to embrace the New Orleans murkiness. I'm going to embrace the San Francisco murkiness. My real takeaway here is still that you just, you put biscuit in the final four. I think biscuits in the final four. I think biscuit and the bills are going to make it. All right. What a day for Biscuit. What a day for our second question, which comes from Benjamin Hendy on Twitter.

Which TV show characters would be the best coach, general manager, and offensive and defensive coordinators? You may not, this is important. You may not pick characters who are involved in playing or coaching sports in their show. Okay. So sorry to coach Taylor. Sorry to Ted Lassow, etc. Out. Totally out.

Okay. Do you want to go position by position here? Let's open. We'll alternate. instead of going through our full rosters. Who's your coach? So my coach is Olivia Pope from Scandal. Incredible.

I love this. This is great. A strong leader. Definitely more of, definitely more of sort of like the CEO type overseer. Great with the media, obviously. Masterful in getting a lot out of people, understanding all the various facets of the organization,

and all of the different people and a very, very good motivator, maybe a little bit less of probably has like a couple specific areas of focus because definitely like Coach Pope definitely has some schematic areas where she really excels. Maybe not totally like the hyper specific scheme lord type, but just in a kind of CEO role. I love this. Scheme lord.

Incredible. I love the pick. I think it's a, inspired. I am going with head coach. So you might also know him as Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica.

Admiral Adama, come on in. Join the squad. We welcome you with open arms. This is when my whole squad really clicked. I'm excited to run through all of these. But landing on Adama, coach, I felt like all right, we have a vision. We have a purpose. And we have one of the most important things, necessary things to build a winning squad.

We have conviction. Admiral Coach Adama will not let us quit. Nora, this man, this leader. No spoilers, really. This is just sort of broad stroke spoilers for a decades-old show. now. Great one. Check it out if you haven't.

He was able to lead humanity. Okay? Humanity to rebuild. Humanity to fight and win and see another day.

If he can lead and coach humanity, he can save the job. He can lead my football team. And crucially, crucially, not only does he know how to inspire, he knows how to work with others. If you're wondering what I'm talking about, I'd suggest Googling Adama and Roslyn and then getting back to me.

Wow. Wow. Everybody should do that. All right. General Manager, I've got Wendy Rhodes from Billions. Good on understanding the personal side of roster building, good with the money stuff, very good at having a specific role within an organization that does something different, but understanding how all the pieces fit together and also good at managing a lot of personalities. I love Wendy. Wendy's an all-time fave. Let me just offer this as a devil's advocate argument.

Well, is it a little too messy? You know, to your point about working with all the difficult personalities, yes. However, if you're going to be the GM of a ringer NFL Thursday assembled squad, you got to be with that squad all in. You can't be going back and forth between Team Nora and Team Mal, Team Chuck and Team X. Pick one. Are you confident in your GM? Just throwing it out there.

I'm confident in my GM because I think that, I think General Manager Rhodes and Coach Pope are going to have a very good coach GM relationship. Yeah, that's a power duo for sure. For sure. As Dollar Bill Stern would say, I am not uncertain, you know? I love it.

I love it. All right, who's your GML? This was the first name I wrote down. It was only a question of whether this character would be my GM or my coach, because frankly, this character is capable of doing it all. And that's why ultimately GM was the right spot. Tyrion Lannister ever heard of him.

Wow, inspired. But crucially, an innovator. Now, Tyrion would be the first to tell you and Circe alike that plots and schemes are the same thing. But all that tells me is that he knows how to navigate both. One and the same, though, they may be, okay? We had watched over the years. Did Tyrion have some dips, some down moments?

You know, yeah, but who among us, right? Did he bounce back? Well, in a fashion. When he was at his peak, though, no one better. No one better at seeing the board. And that's what I need out of my GM. You know, Tyrion would tell us, Nora, that the history of the world,

you know, what is it really? Conversations in elegant rooms. My guy loves a chat. My guy loves to talk it out, hash it out, plan, and then execute. And he can facilitate and foster that team-building culture that I need on my squad. Tyrion Lannister, hear me roar.

That's going to be incredible. I'm looking forward to the combine now. All right. Offensive coordinator. This is the coordinator positions for me. This is a, I'm just going to say this before you say it out loud and a crazy heat check pick from you. This is unbelievable.

The coordinator positions to me are an opportunity to get a genius, an absolute genius with a fatal flaw, and invite them into your organization. And then so with no further ado, my offensive coordinator is Walter White from Breaking Bad, a schematic mastermind who may have some moral failings, but we'll do whatever it takes to advance the ball and therefore the team. When you say fatal flaw, are you referring to the meth cooking? Are you referring to the murder? are you referring to just in general, the megalomania?

I think I'm referring mostly to the megalomania. I'm hoping that the, I'm hoping we can leave the meth and the murder outside of our team environment. But if we cannot, then that is a small price to pay for the brilliance. If you can understand chemical equations, how can you not understand schematic designs

that will power us to success. I think there's something here, but here's my concern. I actually, I'm going to be honest with you in the interest of full disclosure, I did consider putting a walt on my team as well. But I couldn't. And here's why. I also wanted that brashness and that energy in OC, as you'll see in a moment. But I don't think, in terms of just overall dynamic, ask yourself this.

How is your head coach or anyone else really in your franchise going to respond to your offensive coordinator when he's challenged on a play call? When he's questioned in a meeting saying, not much of a team player. That's all. Throwing it out there. I trust in coach Pope. She's a great personality manager. I think the infrastructure works now. I think you've got to throw some peppers into the gumbo from now and again, and I like it.

I like my OC pick here. All right. You tell us yours. Yeah, I, you know, I got a little spice of my own here. I'm proud to present my selection for offensive coordinator. Don Draper. Madman legend. Let me see.

Let me explain why. Let me run through the thinking here. I think that Don has actually exactly what we need in an OEC. The genius, you know, that wonder can spark, the ability to innovate to always find not only a solution, but the next big thing, the next big idea, the Kodak moment, the Coke moment, right? someone who was just going to awe us consistently with his ingenuity and his brilliance. But also, my guy is totally content to just recede into the shadows. Little midday nap on the couch in the old office, right? Doesn't want to do every single thing isn't going to challenge my head coach in the way that your offensive coordinator is now.

I don't want to apply that Don doesn't want to be in charge. Of course he does. Right. But I think ultimately in this modern day NFL and this dynamic, he would recognize that offensive coordinator is akin to the creative directory role that he was used to before, which is to say it's kind of a sexy job. And that's what Don Draper wants. It's where he knows he thrives. And we're going to out scheme the shit out of the competition. I think Don Draper is a fraud. I'm stunned into silence by that statement. I think Don Draper's entire quote-unquote genius as a character relies on the acceptance that just everyone involved in the world is sort of like dull men. Nora, welcome to the NFL.

Shoot. I thought I had a really compelling argument there and then, whew. All right, fine. I have no comeback. I accept it. I still think Don Draper is a fraud. defensive coordinator. This was a fun one.

I had fun with this one. Yeah, I'm jealous of your pick here. Mine is Christina Yang from Grey's Anatomy. Basically, just a brilliant mind, a brilliant tactician who's not great with people. And that feels like a defensive coordinator to me, ladies and gentlemen. Incredible.

And I think some similarities to yours as well, in some ways. It's certainly not a one-to-one. My pick for defensive coordinator, Jerry, from Succession. I'm so jealous of them. I feel good about this one. I want Jerry on my team. I'm mad.

I'm offering her like a 10-year contract to steal her. Jerry is simply the most trusted stalwart, the ultimate line of defense. Jerry is not just a safety blanket for our team or waste our Royco. She is capable, as she's so adeptly explained to Roman recently, of seeing quite clearly all of the danger spots, all of the interplay, all of the power dynamics. Jerry has the clearest view of everything that is unfolding around her. She knows how to scheme not only to stop the competition,

but crucially to protect her squad. She is trusted. She is beloved. She's not going to be out there given some sort of controversial Kendall press conference, right? She knows how to work the news. She knows how to navigate any challenge that arises. She knows how to move through a boardroom or on a tarmac or on the sideline. Jerry Kelman will lead us to victory.

She will be the envy of the league. Wow. I'm really jealous of Jerry. I consider Jerry for a general manager. Me too. A role I think she would also excel in. This is fantastic. All right.

I've got coach Olivia Pope, general manager Wendy Rhodes, offensive coordinator Walter White, and defensive coordinator, Christina Yang. You have coach, coach Adama, coach Admiral Adama. That's right. Tyrion Lanister, GM, Don Draper, O.C., Jerry Kelman, defensive coordinator.

Strong squad. Strong squad's all around. That was a fun one. All right. A less strong squad is our next question. From Jordan Miles. Will Jared Goff get a win with the last? or is he benched before that happens?

So just a little segue there for Goff. That was rough. Brutal. Yeah. It's a tough, it's a tough moment. It's a tough moment when the, when John Wofford comes up before Jared Gough. And then this is how he is brought into the podcast. However, Jared Gough has been terrible this season.

He is the 26th ranked quarterback by Pro Football Focus. the team is 0 and 6. And next up they have the Rams, Eagles, Steelers, Browns, Bears, Vikings, Broncos, Cardinals, Falcons, Seahawks, and Packers. Winds are going to be hard to come by. Dan Campbell has gotten to the point where

he's speaking publicly about golf's failures in the media. They lost to Cincinnati and then he said, I feel like he has to step up more than he has. He's still maintaining that Goff is not going to be benched, but it is hard to see how things could get much worse. I have to say, I think he will get benched before they get a win. Do you agree? I do, actually. Yeah, that's where I am too.

First of all, I just love this question on this of all weeks. You know, Lions' Rams Week, the great homecoming for Jared Goff. This is going to be so brutal. I think you're right. I mean, the schedule that you outline the upcoming slate coupled with the 0 and 6 start, it really is just hard to spot with confidence a W on that upcoming schedule, on that slate. And goth has been awful, as you said. You know, the 60.9 PFF grade.

It's not what you want, Nora. He's tied for seventh in turnover worthy plays. He's 39th in average depth of target. I mean, this is grim. Obviously, the Campbell quotes are, it's just not the place that a coach and quarterback and team want to be six weeks into a season, period, certainly not coming off of the trade. I think the only thing with the benching that has, that gives me some pause is like the backup situation. It's not like there's a clear air apparent waiting in the way. David, wow, come on down.

I guess the flip side to that is like, why not David Blow at this point, honestly? So, you know, this is obviously not a great place for Detroit to be if this continues. But ultimately, beyond Goff and however this unfolds, you know, from that trade with the ramp, they get the third round pick in 2021 and then the first round picks in 2022, 2020, 23 rates. There's a lot of draft capital exchange in that deal as well, obviously. and if they don't win a game this season or they win one, they're going to get another.

I pick in the upcoming draft, Nora. So the future is bright for Detroit. I'll just say that. I'll be it not the present. And of course, the quarterback class in this draft is very thin. So it's not like relief is on the horizon in that respect necessarily. I just don't see the win on the schedule in any way that we can pick it with confidence. I don't know if kids.

Campbell will have the heart to bench goth against the Rams. Like that would feel like almost cruel. So I don't know if the benching will come this week, but it feels like it's it's around the corner. I mean, there's also a scenario in which not benching him, if things are just going absolutely terribly is also kind of cruel. The thing about Campbell is he just, he wears the heart on his sleeve to such a degree that I think,

even though the backup situation is not amazing, I think he will probably do something just to shake it up. which actually the fact that they're not going to be good this year. And they've looked, they've actually looked moderately feisty in moments. It's just like golf's been terrible. The schedule's hard. Never forget Nora that our five and one Baltimore Ravens required an NFL record field goal to beat the Lions.

Right. Right, right, right, right, right. So I think at some point he will just say, let's, let's go for a spark here. Because again, the results being bad is not really the issue. That's, that keeps them on. on track and the rebuilding plan that they're on. Right. But I don't think that Dan Campbell will be able to handle just sort of staying with these results that are making him cry after every game.

Yeah. I think that's astute. All right. Next one. Oh, Mel, close to home for you. Um, from S3 VVVII on Twitter. Sorry, I didn't do the Roman numeral there. Thoughts on Ronnie Stanley being done for the year. Think the Ravens offensive line can hold up. Mel, I'll ask you to go first on this one. I mean, this is a huge bummer. First of all, the Ravens obviously have a very big game coming up this week against the Bengals, division clash.

Mostly, I just feel really heartbroken for Ronnie Stanley here. I mean, he's out for the season with this ankle injury for the second year in a row now. He initially sustained this injury in November of 2020. I so returned for week one for the opener this year. As we talked about then was clearly not. right was clearly not back to full strength. And, you know, it hasn't played since and now back to IR in season-ending surgery. So it's just brutal for him.

And I really want Ronnie Stanley to be back and healthy and happy. And he's been a cornerstone of the team, you know, so it's just a huge bummer. In terms of the actual impact on the field, I think you can kind of make the case either way here. You know, on the one hand, it is, of course, a massive blow. I mean, he's a foundational cornerstone player in the franchise. The injuries, as we've discussed throughout the season, have been mounting and mounting and mounting. Ravens have 17 players on IR.

That's astounding. Ryan Stanley is an all-pro left tackle. He's one of the best offensive linemen, one of the best left tackles in the league. So you're not just losing another player on a already thin and depleted line. You're losing your best. player on the line and one of the most important players for your offense. You know, he was PFF's best pass blocker in football in 2019, his last full healthy season. He only allowed

six total pressures that season. I mean, we're talking about like a historic pace of play that he was on coming out of that season before this rash of injuries. The team, of course, traded Orlando Brown to Kansas City in the offseason. So that's something that now in hindsight, it's impossible not to just run through again, right, and reassess. And the team's been dealing with injuries on the line all year. As we have chronicled, we don't need to rehash them all. But even just most recently, in addition to the Stanley News, Bradley Bozeman, who's an incredibly important part of the line is now hurt as well with a back injury. It doesn't seem like that's going to be long term, thankfully.

You know, if he's out for the Bengals game, perhaps, then hopefully with the by week right after that, he can, you know, heal up and get healthy and be back after that. Patrick McCarray has been a very pleasant surprise over on the right side of line. Obviously, the only way of us slid back to left tackle amid the injuries. But in general, they are just thin at an essential unit. that used to be a real strength. Now, what's the other side of it? It's pretty obvious, right?

They've managed to be the best team in the AFC, at least in terms of the five and one start, despite those injury concerns and despite that depletion of the offensive line. So hopefully, then, can remain so. I think that the offensive line returning to Fuller Health was something that I kept pointing to as a reason to have a lot of faith moving forward in the season, and so you lose that element of it, right? but hopefully they can continue to sustain.

Now, you know, the run game, again, is kind of one of these things you can cut either way. Like, they're fourth in rushing yards, but they're 10th in rush DVOA. They're tied for 16th in pass blocking per PFF, but they're fourth in run blocking. The run game is just flat out, not the same as it was the last couple years. Like, just watch any game. It just doesn't feel the same. It just is not the same. What does that mean, though?

Because you're not just saying that in terms of total production. You're measuring that against this past expectation of like historic output. So all of it as always comes down to Lamar. And he is playing so well and evolving. The past game is evolving so fully around him and now Bateman's back. And Hollywood and Andrews have found their flow. And as bad as the Stanley injury is, I am just choosing to be optimistic. optimistic overall that the offense has clicked and found a groove in a way that will continue behind Lamar

because Lamar is playing like a potential MVP. Wouldn't roll out them trying to make a trade to bolster the unit though. Yeah, they should be buyers. They should absolutely be buyers. I think just particularly because it's not like it's been a disaster, right? So Villanueva at left tackle is having what could be the worst year of his career. But he's been a little bit better at left than right. maybe that has the chance to get better.

Their line isn't terrible. It's not producing the same best in the NFL dominant, dominant, dominant results in the ground game. I'm not worried about this at all, though, honestly, because if the counter to that is that they're just deciding, you know what, we're going to chuck it down the field. That to me is way more valuable. I actually, I don't think, I'm not going to go as far as to say that the injuries on the offensive line and the running game are a good thing.

Obviously, they're not. First of all, you just don't want to see those players hurt. and second of all, it's more valuable when you have multiple ways to win in the NFL. But the tradeoff on the field between being a more dominant rushing team and Lamar leading the NFL in yards per attempt as a passer, Lamar leading the NFL in yards per attempt as a passer

and playing as well as he's playing is more valuable. You would choose that. You would choose that over the alternative. I think the progressions that they've made there are really, really important. And it's interesting to me to wonder if they would have, you know, necessity is the mother of invention kind of thing happening here. I wonder if there's a little bit of that going on.

But I think that they are more than, more than capable of overcoming this. And we're going to have to go rapid fire a little bit with these. But we've got the rest of the way. And Arol on Instagram. I love this question. You have to change Tom Brady's position from quarterback to either running back or wide receiver. He can be in his crime, which I take to me in the year 2021, apparently. This is going to say.

This to me comes... Present day. So right now. So right now. At first, I started thinking about this and was like, all right. I don't know if I want Tom Brady, like, having to block in any circumstance. But this to me comes down to one thing, which is Tom Brady has the worst hands in the entire NFL. The man simply cannot catch.

It is well documented in the Super Bowl against the Eagles where Danny Amadola hit him in the hands, in both hands. in both hands with a football and he dropped it. Lovely pass. He's terrible. He's terrible at the core trait of a, this is what the Patriots say. Your job as a wide receiver is to get open and catch the ball. He definitely cannot get open and he can't catch the ball.

So I think Tom Brady has to be like a situational short yard adresher. And we're hoping that he's doing this behind a very good offensive line in the ultimate test for the running backs don't matter. Oh, God. This is hysterical. You know, for me, I think we need look no further than Giselle for wisdom and guidance here. You know, of course, she famously said my husband cannot fucking throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time. Now, was that intended as an indictment of his receivers at the time it was?

But can we interpret it as an indictment of him not being able to catch the ball? Also, sure. Yeah. why not, right? And I'm sure she's seen him play catch in the backyard with the kids. You know, Tom Brady has three career receptions, rocking a frankly astounding 21.7 yards per reception, which I just think is incredible.

The career 1.7 rushing yards per game, by the way. Oh, my God. Just an astounding nugget after a standing nugget here. To me, I'm with you. The role here is clear because it's not only about the hands, as you noted, with the Amandola play. If you look at the Edelman Pass and catch against the Titans, nothing but green and open field in front of Tom Brady and he just fell, right? We're not going to get a lot of yak from our guy, Tom, I don't think, if we put him at receiver. I'm also going short yardage RB.

And I think frankly he can be a devastating short yardage RB because he is the the QB sneak lord, right Nora? So we just need to kind of port that QB sneak ethos into his role as a running back. Get him those goal line touches. Fourth down. Third and short. He doesn't need to do anything other than. receive the handoff and fall forward.

And I think, frankly, he will excel. I love it. I love it. Can't wait to see it. All right. Next one from J.P. Porterfield on Instagram. If Callen Moore leaves Dallas after this year, where would be the most fun place for him to land?

And I'm emphasizing most fun. Yeah. I'm going to give you mine. This is not the place where he could do the most good, but I think it is the most fun. The Arizona Cardinals. I'm sorry, Mal. frankly how dare you i'm sorry i'm sorry what's place one one empty head of hair with another wow

this is this is frankly rude we're not taping this are we i i love the question obviously kell and moors cowboys are coming off the 567 yard offensive outing against belly against bill Alexe's defense, the most of his defense has ever allowed per stats and info. I got a real kick out of the SB Nation Cowboys Blog, Blogging the Boys, tweeting during the game because Moore is getting such praise, justifiably so. Romo needs to chill out on hyping up Callen Moore. Switch to all caps in the tweet here on national television. That made me laugh. I found that very amusing.

You know, remember that Kellynmore interviewed for the Eagles job, right? So he was already in the mix, and of course the Wonderkind hype and Prodigy hype is just growing from here. I'm going with, I'm torn between two, so I'm going to throw both of these out here. Chicago or Jacksonville. Because don't have a lot of faith

as chronicle at length this season with you here on Thursdays in the Madaggy tenure or the Urban Meyer tenure extending for long, obviously for different reasons. And I think the idea of Kellan Moore as head coach of a franchise with a thrilling

young franchise quarterback, either Fields or Lawrence, that's fun. That's really exciting to think about. Yep. Does one of those feel more fun to you than the other? Like, do you go in a certain direction between those two?

Either would be wonderful, I think. I like Chicago. I think Chicago would be great. Slight edge would just... Yeah. There's just more room for creativity. I mean, Trevor Lawrence, the blessing and the curse of Trevor Lawrence, right, is like... He's so good at so many things, or at least, like, most of the evidence that we have from college up to this point.

It tells us that that you can kind of... You can do anything, right? Whereas I think there's room for a lot of creativity. That's maybe a little bit more necessary to get the most out of Justin Field. So I'd love to see him do that. I like it. I think that would be a great one. I'm just praying that Cliff never hears your answer.

Just be great for Kyler. Just be great for Kyler. All right. From BHE 23 on Instagram, should the Seahawks sign Cam Newton? I'm going to go with no on this one. Russell Wilson is out until at least week 10, but it could be longer. He had finger surgery. Gino Smith, the way I look at this is that Gino Smith played about,

as well as Cam Newton played last year for the Patriots. Little bit better as the passer, 68.7 PFF passing grade, worse as a rusher. The Patriots obviously last season were terrible, and Cam looked better in camp this year before losing the job to Mack Jones, but he would have to adjust all over in a short period of time. I think the way that it works out is that Gino probably gives you, Cam probably gives you a little bit more in the red zone and in short yardage,

and then maybe a little bit less everywhere else when you, you factor in, but he's not amazing as a passer right now, at least as we've seen more recently. And when you factor in just the transition time, I think it would be tough. I also just don't think they're going to do it because they claimed Jacob Eason off waivers, which to me is just we're sticking with with Gino, but we want to have another sort of backup option. Jacob Beeson heading back to Washington. What a time for him. Yeah, I mean, this, this question comes in part from a specific bit of information, which is that the Seahawks did talk to Cam, right? per seahawks.com Pete Carroll said this week that he is also now vaccinated, by the way.

Yes. Yes. I talked to him a couple times, just trying to see what was going on in his world and all that, and we're wide open and continuing to compete with on and on the quote goes. So Carol and Cam have spoken. Carol has told the media that this is something that they've explored and are considering. I'm with you. like I definitely think someone should sign Cam Newton, but in terms of the logic of the Seahawks doing so right now, maybe Russ will be out longer. But I'm with you that it's just like a math problem in terms of this not being a fit. Because as you said, by the time Cam comes in, learns the playbook, gets up to speed and comfortable in the offense, there's a chance Russ is already back or at least very close to being back. where is everybody and what was that for exactly. So it just doesn't feel like the right landing spot because this is, you know, barring some sort of setback, obviously, with Russ's finger.

It just doesn't feel like the math and the number of weeks we're looking at because he's out for two more weeks for sure and then they have a buy. He could be back after that. That's possible. And so it just doesn't, it just doesn't align in that sense if that time frame is possible. Now, again, the flip side, of course, is that the Seahawks are two and four. You know, you talked about last week how they couldn't, they couldn't really afford to lose last week. So there's not really any more ground that they can lose. There's no more wiggle room.

But there's also not a lot of wiggle room with the calculus of this particular consideration. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. I just don't think the fit is quite right there. Another quarterback question from Connor G on Instagram, more likely to be the starting quarterback for their current team next year. Hertz or Tua. Man, Mal, I'll go to you first. This is a tough one, honestly.

It is. It's interesting. I think part of it is, of course, that the Eagles have so much draft capital, you know, so many top picks in this upcoming draft, but. The Eagles currently have three of the top 11 picks for the 22 draft. This isn't the draft necessarily where you're going to want. to spend a top 11 pick on a quarterback. It's actually a terrible draft. Yeah, it's a really, really thin

quarterback class in this upcoming draft. So not a lot of relief on the way in a clear capacity in that sense. Maybe they could package some of those picks for trade. Maybe there's a replacement that's a good fit for the team coming in free agency. There are obviously plenty of pathways other than just the draft. But there's not the absolute surefire. they will use these top picks for this prospect that there would be in many other years.

I mean, yeah. We often talk ourselves into someone. The NFL always talks itself into someone. I have no doubt that after the Combine circuit and the Pro Day circuits, some of these prospects will rise. But it's a decidedly weak QB pool. It's rough. I'm not ready to give up on Tua.

I've said this a lot. I'll keep saying it. I just kind of can't wrap my mind around this of having gone this way. I just can't. I do think, though, and I suspect we're aligned on this, that maybe the dolphins are just not the team for him. Maybe this is just not a fit and maybe everyone needs a reset. And as hard as it is for me to imagine that Tua may not be a star in the NFL, like so

many of us thought was just a lot, it's starting to become as hard to imagine that he's going to be in Miami long term. You know, it's just like that, I think there's just that collective, like, feeling around it. I think with Hertz, you know, he has certainly not been, like, awe-inspiring with his play this season, but he's been, there are signs. I think there's Shale Capadia, friend of the Ringer podcast network, had a really great breakdown on the athletic this week. And I'll just share this little stretch from Shale's piece. Quote, there's no perfect quarterback metric.

So let's look at a few different ones. QBR 28th. This is for measuring Hertz to this point. EPA per play, 23rd, adjusted net yards per attempt, 21st. Depending on which metric you prefer, Hertz has performed somewhere between slightly below average to very bad. Now, that sounds grim, but where did the piece go from there? Where did the analysis go from there? It was to all the different things the Eagles could do to try to optimize Hertz more fully, right?

Quote, if on the Eagles, I'm using zonery, QB power, counterbash, speed option, QB draw, and whatever other schemes I could come up with. This should have been a priority from day one. Do they sprinkle some in? Yes, but not nearly enough. That's the thing that I feel when I'm watching the Eagles too right now. It's like this whole, let's give it a year approach, how can you commit fully to developing a quarterback

and to building the offense around him in the way that's necessary if you are not committed fully to doing that very thing? It's an inherent contradiction. And so I would love to see them scheme more fully and experiment more with what Hertz can do before moving in a different direction. because I do think he's a capable player. So of these two scenarios,

I'm saying it's more likely that Hertz will be the starter on his team next year. But both of these situations are uncertain, I would say, at the moment. What do you think? I'm with you that Hertz is more likely because I think Hertz has a more likely future as the Eagles backup. Hertz has actually shown that he has a decent floor, I think,

and there is, to your point and shielded a really good job outlining this in that piece, there is meat on the bone there in terms of what they could get out of him by using, by making the quarterback run game a little bit more of a foundational piece of what they do there. But he's been okay. I actually think that offense has not been as the disaster that I frankly thought it was going to be. So I think it's just more likely that they reset for next year and there's a greater chance

that it's with a rookie who might not start right away and then hurts. maybe he keeps playing a little bit more and he becomes a good someone that they can trade. Maybe he's depending on how his skill set matches the quarterback of the future there. Maybe he's a solid enough backup that he sticks around there. The two thing, it just seems like they're clearly trying to replace him. And because they don't have the draft capital that Philly has, it's more likely that they do it in free agency with someone who would just come in and take the job. So I'm going to go with Hertz just because it seems like that's. a clearer, a clearer path.

Next question. I'm going to take this one because I just needed to go full Patriots rant for a second. Clearing out for you. I'll read this one to you. I'll set this one up for you. Oh, thank you, Mal.

All right. Clear the lane. This is from Alex Armstrong on Instagram, Nora. This one's for you. Alex would like to know. Is Belichick the coach failing Belichick the GM? Okay.

The answer is yes. The answer is like an, unequivocal, yes. The Patriots just seems so thoroughly to me caught between the team that they are and the team that they wanted to be at the beginning of the season before, first of all, they just realized

that some things weren't working for them, and two, they got hit with injuries at running back and on their offensive line. But they are this team that is going to have the best results when they're a little bit more aggressive and they're refusing to be. So first of all,

they are just never going for it on fourth day. They've done it three times. They're two of three on fourth down attempts, but all three were in garbage time against the Saints. On fourth and four or less from outside their own 35-yard line, they have punted or kicked a field goal on all eight times when they were in that situation. There has never been a Bill Belichick coached Patriot season where they have attempted fewer than 10 fourth downs.

They're on pace for eight and a half. on average he's done it almost 16 times a season. Ben Baldwin has a model where it shows when going for it would help a team gain at least one percentage point of win probability. They are dead last. This is not a good team. This is a team that's only going to win games if they're aggressive, if they take some risks and have them pan out. And I see such a correlation between that and how they're playing on offense because it just seems like they are so determined to be this like we use a lot of two. tight ends. We use heavy personnel. We're going to kind of grind it out. We're going to rely on

a good offensive line. We're going to take the ball out of Mack Jones's hands because he's rookie, because he's going to make mistakes and live like that. But the problem is that they're dying by it. They're much better right now out of 11 personnel than they are out of 12 or 21. They're averaging 7.4 yards per attempt out of 11, 6.7 out of 12, 6.8 out of 21. If those don't sound like big differences, that's a really, really, really big difference because those are play-by-play metrics. So I just don't think that I think they're really hesitant to be this team that's like, Mac, chuck it down the field, throw it to your receivers on the outside, and we're going to go for it in the situationally aggressive moments.

But tough cookies, because that's the only time when they're good. So yes, yes, the answer is yes. Rant over. I love it. Bring it home. Our last question is from Bebo McFly on Twitter. We had to get some pasta content into the pod. Bebo asks, I knew someone growing up who would alternate between bites of raw pasta and spoonfuls of hot cocoa mix.

Should I have tried it as a kid? I feel like I might have missed out. I have done both of those things, certainly, but I have never tried to alternate directly, you know, one after the other to pair these two. So I'm looking forward to trying it in the future. I used to like to nibble on like a raw, a dry piece of angel hair pasta. You know, that's the best use for angel hair pasta in that capacity. Nibble on it for a little crunch. Or, you know, like a ramen noodle pack, right?

Nibble on the noodles. Hot cocoa mix. I used to always do this when I was a kid. Like I would just consume the chocolate powder flavored sugar. Well, or it's like I think of it like fun dip. but instead of like fruity flavors cocoa just the way it like melts on the tongue nora it's just wonderful i love it the last time i had like a spoonful of raw cocoa mix is within the last calendar year do you eat it by the spoon or do you do like a finger dip um i don't i don't think i do a

finger dip, I think, or sometimes I would do like a spoon and then like lick a finger, put the finger in the spoon and then I don't know that I'm like shoveling cocoa mix into my mouth. Yeah, like, are you just buy the spoonful like it's a bowl of cereal? But I think it's like you get a little, you have to get a little on the tongue. Yeah. You want to like moisten it a degree. That's right. That's right. Like desperate times, desperate measures. I got to say, I think raw pasta is never as good as you think it's going to be. Just for a little nibble. I know, but sometimes I'll take a little nibble and then I'll just be like, why did I do that? This is very hard.

Yeah. Now, a full snack I had never considered. And then you sort of think you're going to be able to cook it in your mouth a little bit and you just can't. Valerie just did the German Shepherd like headcocks to the side. What the fuck are you saying? Boy. All right. Bebo, give it a try.

Why not? You know? Thank you everyone for sending your questions. This has been the Ringer NFL show Thursday edition. I'm Nora Prince Diatty. She's Mallory Rubin. Ben Solek, Stephen Ruiz, and Kaylon Jones will be coming up next on the feed, previewing the week, seven games this Friday. I'll be back on Sunday night with Kevin Clark, Solac and Ruiz to break down all the Sunday NFL action. Mel will be on the ringerverse feed Monday. Breaking down Dune with Joanna Robinson. Definitely going to listen to that. We will be back next Thursday with a primer on the upcoming trade deadline. Our thanks go out to production assistant Isaiah Blakely for his production work on this episode and to Arjuna Ramble call for additional. production supervision.