The Ringer NFL Show - The Bengals Extend Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins, Plus Free Agency Superlatives

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Sheil, Steven, and Diante start the pod by sharing their reactions to Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins' new deals that keep them on the Cincinnati Bengals high-powered offense. Next, they react to CB Derek Stingley's new contract and shine a light on his significant contributions to DeMeco Ryan’s lauded defensive scheme in Houston (18:05). Finally, they scan the league and offer awards and superlatives for some of the biggest free agency moves, including takes on the Chiefs (29:55), Patriots (35:30), Jaguars (48:43) and Seahawks (52:45) most recent developments. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Steven Ruiz, and Diante Lee Producer: Chris Sutton Social: Kiera Givens Production Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons, and I want to tell you about my movie podcast, The Rewatchables. We're each week, I'm joined by Ringer movie lovers, Chris Ryan, Sean Van Van Lathen, Kyle Brandt, Matley Rubin, we have a whole bunch of people on. We talk about movies. We can't stop rewatching. And now you can watch us cover these movies on video in the Spotify app. We have covered over 350 movies, including Heat, Goodfellas, Boogie Nights, Pulp Fiction. We have some real heavy hitters coming up here in 2025.

Make sure to follow us on Spotify, where you can watch. watch every new episode right now. Just head to the rewatchables on Spotify, now on video. Welcome to The Ringer NFL show. Shield Capadia here with Deontay Lee and Stephen Ruiz. The NFL never sleeps. Yes, it's March Madness Week and Ruiz has been plugging away. Check out his work on the ringer.com on one shining podcast. The guy, Ruiz, you're multi, multi-talented, not just NFL. You could just jump right into a college hoop season. Yeah, that's right. I have bad takes on every sport. You can throw out.

You know, yeah, it's been fun, though, just diving into a different sport. I'm still paying attention to the NFL because it's my main job, but no, it's been a blast. It's weird sometimes, Deonté, with this stuff, it's like when you do something else, it creates like a fun diversion. Like when I just do start doing Phillies episodes, when they make the playoffs, you're kind of like re-energized. Ruiz just went straight from, you know, Super Bowl, Free Agency, College Hoops. So I don't know if he's re-energized, but we got to respect his hustle here. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad that for me, I have not yet picked up my ringer niche yet.

So I'm going to enjoy it a little bit of this quiet season for me, at least for year one. We'll see what this looks like next spring. My writing brain feels like I imagine Cooper Cups' knees feel at the moment right now. Oh, boy. We're going to get to those. Yes, we've got some news. We've got stuff that's happened since our last podcast. So we'll start the show, go over some of that stuff.

And then we're going to hand out some awards. If you listen to the show during the season, we always ended at Sunday night show with some awards, some superlatives. And we're one week into this negotiating period. But it feels like 95, 99% of the big moves non-draft related have already happened. So we want to take a look at some of these teams, see how we're feeling about them. Could be teams, players, coaches, no rules, but we'll hand out some awards also. in this show. But all right, the big news. I mean, we've spent a lot of podcast time talking about this

team and this situation. And that's the Cincinnati Bengals. They signed Jamar Chase to a four-year $161 million deal, $40.3 million per year makes him the highest paid non-quarterback in the NFL. And then they also hold on to T. Higgins, four years, $15 million. just under $29 million per year, puts him at around a top 10 wide receiver level. And so they announced both the moves on the same day. They put out the graphic and Bengals fans appear to be feeling really good about this. Ruis, how should they be feeling given what they're paying their quarterback and these two wide receivers? Should this just be unbridled celebration, cautious optimism, something in between?

Where are you with these two monster deals for the Bengals? If I was a Bengals fan, I would be ecstatic because at least for one month or one week, or one instance, really, the Bengals ownership beat the cheap skate allegations. And I really, I didn't know how it was going to end up like a couple months ago. I think the momentum started heading towards them signing both of these guys. And I just don't get the argument against breaking up what they have because I know we give quarterbacks credit for everything. but this offense, being as explosive as it was and as dangerous as it was over the last couple of years, the last three years, really, was based on those three guys. Like having those two guys on the outside and having a quarterback who can read defenses before the snapping, get rid of the ball quickly, then having two guys you could throw the ball to and they turn what could be a 50-50 situation into an explosive play repeatedly and consistently.

I just didn't understand the argument about breaking that up. And I think it would have been very hard to find a replacement level player. even if it was in the aggregate and you bring in like three different receivers to kind of replace T. Higgins' production, I think just his presence on the field is what you would have to replace, and that's irreplaceable with three lesser wide receivers. What do you think, Deonté, are you on the same pages, Ruiz here? I mean, I kind of tweeted it last night, right? You had to do it.

You just had to do it because there really wasn't a pathway for them to do anything viable in terms of continuing to be competitive without these guys. And I think that there's a lesson in that, right? Shield, Stephen, we spend a lot of time talking about the Cowboys in this regard last offseason. These are the prices that you have to pay when you pay guys as their deals are coming up and not ahead of time. Right. And I'm trying not, I try not to spend too much time harping on that because the truth of the matter is, like I said, they had to make these moves if they wanted to stay competitive. I think that the numbers that they're paying these guys is about what we would expect if you were waiting until the last second.

you're going to pay your wide receiver to almost $30 million. You're going to pay a guy like Jamar Chase, who's an offensive player of the year, candidate perennially, like the best non-quarterback on the offensive side of the ball. That's just what the market rate is going to be. And I was thinking a lot, as the news was broken, I was thinking a lot about those mid-aughts Colts teams, right, who were built kind of in a similar vein, especially if we're to assume that the reporting is true that they are trying to work out in extension with Trey Hendrickson.

So you're going to be spending probably about half of your cap now on your five best players, which is fine, right? Like, it's fine if your five best players are the players that they have on their roster. It just means now that they're going to have to do something that I don't think we associate with the Bengals at all, at least not in the modern era, which is being at the cutting edge of your scouting department, that you're always going to be at the cutting edge in terms of pro scouting so you can go find veterans on one year prove it deals that are excellent fits for what you're trying to do in your building, that you're going to have to be on the cutting edge

in terms of college scouting. So go find guys, especially on day two and day three in the draft that can show up and be early contributors. You also have to be willing to spend cash to bring in other veterans as you're doing that. And you're going to have to be restructuring deals, which means that as these deals continue to go through the life of the contract, you're going to find the pocketbooks get tighter and tighter as the years go on. So I think that there are a lot of conversations that we're going to be having about Cincinnati in 2027, in 2028, in 2029, about how difficult it is to be a contender year over year with as many expensive deals as they have. But at the end of the day, I just keep coming back to the fact that this is what it's got to be.

And now it's on the front office to field a team. It's not on your star player to take a pay cut. Now guys in the front office for Cincinnati have got to earn their keep and go find guys that can go fill in the rest of the cracks on this roster. It's a good reminder. You have to make choices. It's not like this is 100% the way that we're going to win a Super Bowl or plan B is the, you know, I made the case, what, a few weeks ago that, hey, is there a case here that you trade T. Higgins, if you can get good compensation for him? Is that a better way for team building? I think there was

a case to do that, but this is probably the best case, especially when you look at the age for these guys. Jamar Chase just turned 25. T. Higgins turned 26. And that deal that you signed him to, like if he hit the open market, he's getting paid over $30 million per year. And so it's not like you had to kind of go above and beyond with some wild numbers. to hold on to him. And I just go back to the hardest thing in the NFL is to build the efficient offense that you can count on. If you can do that and then try to figure out the rest of the stuff, that's a pretty good formula.

Like you're saying, Deante with the Colts, it doesn't mean it's going to work every single season and they might not be as good as those Colts teams, but that at least gives you a chance. And when you just look at this, you know, how they've performed when they've had all three guys healthy, you know, through really over the last three seasons here, they've performed like a top five offense when those three guys have been healthy. So now you have them young. Obviously, if they get injured, you can say that about any player. But Jamar Chase, that's a no-brainer. You don't let players who are that age, that good, that position walk. You just have to do that

every single time. And then, like I mentioned, the Higgins move not bad for them. So I'm with Ruiz. Like, if I'm a Bengals fan, I'm celebrating right now. It's like everybody talked about how your team is cheap and it's not going to pay these guys. And by the way, their message, with this Higgin stuff for two straight years was basically like we can't do that. Like don't even bring it up as an option that we're going to pay him. So it wasn't coming out of nowhere. It wasn't a media creation. And then this is the other thing that's interesting to me.

Your quarterback kind of just put the pressure on. Went like LeBron mode and is like, this is what we should do. Wait, you have a microphone. What outlet are you from? Yeah, here's what we should do. The Eagles do it. We should pay these guys. We need these guys.

And I don't know how you can look at this any other way than to say that got to management, that got to ownership, that had an influence. And when we talk about leadership, there's different ways to lead. It's a pretty good way to lead is to be like, you know, and now it could backfire. Eventually, if you're making terrible personnel moves as Joe Burroughs, like, we should trade for so and so, there's a limit to it. But in terms of guys who are already there, who are in your locker room, who are your teammates and you're putting pressure publicly to tell management, we need to pay these

guys. They're really important. And if you're like a teammate, I feel like you have to feel pretty awesome about that, that your quarterback went out of his way to do that. And the perception thing matters, especially when you're one of these teams who's kind of on the precipice of Super Bowl contention and you are going to have to start pinching pennies. Like you need some veterans that want to buy in and try to win a ring and maybe take a pay cut. And I think if you get rid of Higgins, whatever momentum you built last year,

it was kind of weird. Like everyone was talking about the Bengals like they were like some contender because they went on that hot stretch to end the season. You can just say me. You don't have to say everyone. I know, I know. I was trying to spare you. Trying to be nicer in the offseason.

But if you don't pay Higgins, I think we kind of look at them differently. We maybe look at them as a declining team and then we realize, oh, wait, they missed the playoffs last year with Joe Burrow having a career year for him and Jemar Chase doing what he did. And we probably rethink about their future. Now, I think there's optimism around that. And I think maybe you could still bring in some cheaper vets who will take a pay cut to play with these guys. And the other thing is these receivers and the quarterback, they're forced multipliers. I get the idea of putting all your chips in one basket with the passing game. But the way they run quick game, that can be a replacement for the run game.

So you don't necessarily need an offensive line that's going to bulldoze defensive fronts. You have a quarterback who gets rid of the ball quicker than anybody in the NFL right now and does it well. So you don't necessarily need this offensive line that's going to protect you for four seconds in the pocket. And I think holding that together is an easier thing to do. and finding, like, filling in those gaps, like building a great offensive line is very hard to do. The Bengals have been trying to do it before they made these signings, and it just didn't work at all.

To me, and I want to bring up the Colts again, to me, if there's an argument to make, it's that they haven't found the number three yet. They haven't found the running back yet, right? If I think about those mid-Ots cults when they had in a die in the backfield to be able to take advantage of playing light boxes, and they developed an offensive line that was functional, and to Stephen's point, they relied on the fact that Peyton Manning is going to solve problems that the offensive line can't, right?

Because you're not going to be able to pay a top offensive tackle. You're not going to be able to pay for a top interior offensive line even though they had Jeff Saturday, right? You don't have a Dallas Clark on this team. So to me, if there's anything, you almost got to think like the Suns, right, when the second apron gets introduced. And the mentality there was, we're going to bring in Kevin Durant. We're going to pay everybody max contracts. We're going to blow past all conventional wisdom with, you know, kind of overpowering our team. And if it blows up in our face, it blows up in our face.

But we're going to try to make this offense as close to unstoppable as possible. And this was a step in that direction. And if anything, now, I think that they need to just go seek out the last couple of pieces that can really compete and that can really complete that skill position group. The offensive line thing is just going to be dark throws, right? That's just the truth of the matter. And based on the kind of team that they are, you're not going to be drafting early enough to go get the prodigal offensive tackle anyways, right?

You're not going to be drafting high enough to, go get the prodigal edge rusher anyways. It's going to be a lot of dart throws, a lot of dice rolls. And I think that to me, the only reason why I have any hangups is just the fact that we've seen them try to build this defense on the cheap and with more youth. And it looked like the way it's looked for the last two seasons. And it's just hard to envision them turning a corner in that regard, even though they did change, you know, their play caller on that side of the ball, bringing in Matt Golden

or Al Golden, excuse me, to call defensive plays now. I just need to see a little bit more from the front office before I'm bought in. And again, I just want to emphasize it. My stance on that has absolutely nothing to do with Joe Burrell getting paid, T. Higgins getting paid, or Jamar Chase is getting paid. You do what you're supposed to do with those guys. I just don't trust the organization right now. I feel like we've also jumped the sharks on the available cap space thing.

Like when you have cap space, it's not usually a good sign, actually. It's usually a bad sign. You don't want to go like the other way with it and be Mickey Loomis to be kicking the candy on the road for a decade. But that means you have good players and you paid. your good players and you kept them and they're good enough to pay long term and you can feel confident about it. And I feel confident about both these wide receivers. I think Jamar Chase, we don't even really need to explain it. Patee Higgins, I've seen people kind of balk at the fact

that he's being paid like a top 10 receiver. He is a top 10 receiver. I know he's number two on the depth chart, but he's a number one most other places. And I just think you have a quarterback in an offense that's going to get a lot of juice out of that squeeze too. Yeah. Well, value is relative, right? That's like a job show. was relative. I know you were talking about this on Philly Special with Cliff, right? The like Milton Williams going out and getting paid $25 million a year is just as much an effect of how good he's been, how he's developed as hitting free agency at the right time, being valuable to as valuable as you are to a team like the Patriots who need an interior defensive lineman who can

generate pass rush value. You can quibble about what you feel about T. Higgins. What you can't do is argue how valuable he is relative to what Cincinnati does. So if you as a GM would not spend 28, $29 million on T. Higgins, that says nothing about what it would be like if Joe Burrow were your quarterback, if he had a struggling offensive line, and you've seen how productive T. Higgins has been when he's healthy. That to me is all worth it. There's really no argument that these guys should not have been paid what they're paid right now. You also get like a baseline for contention. And I feel like they, as long as these guys are healthy and available, you're above that baseline. And then, you know, elevating yourself from competitive to championship contender comes down to filling in the gaps. Like Deontes talking, the front office needs to do some good scouting. All five of those scouts in Cincinnati need to do some good scouting.

Exactly. Stop watching the SEC games and actually get into the rest of the college football. And here's the thing. Whether they sign those guys or not, if the scouting department whiffs and they have a bunch of bad drafts, like they kind of had the last couple years. It wouldn't have mattered anyway, and you weren't winning anything anyway. I think you have a much better chance of just getting to the tournament, getting to the postseason, if you have these guys on the roster. And from there, like, things happen. In 2021, the Bengals weren't the best team in the AFC. They were a lopsided, unbalanced team that relied

on explosive plays. And they made it to the Super Bowl and nearly won it. If Aaron Donald doesn't make that sack, maybe they throw it deep to chase and he scores a game-winning touchdown. So I think you can take a lesson from that 2021 team that wasn't built perfectly. And the money wasn't split evenly. And it was kind of a flawed roster. And you made up for it with these three tent pole players on your offense. Yeah, it's so big when it's a player. This is why you pay your own players more so than paying than, you know, outside free agents because there's no projection for how's T. Higgins going to fit. How's he going to get along with Jamar Chase? What's his chemistry going to be like with Joe Burrow? It's like, no, no, you've been seeing that. And it seems like,

I mean, to his credit, he's, you know, you could flip this. The franchise tag is it's a discussion on its own. But, you know, he could have really been a pain for them over the last couple of years. And there's a case that, like, I would advise if it were my friend, no, go be a pain because it's going to get you more. But if I'm the organization, I'm like, man, this guy just showed up and kept playing. And, you know, he said he wanted to be here. And eventually we got something done. So all those kind of mystery factors that when you bring in a new player, you're not sure about, they don't have those here. So yeah, now it's pour the resources into the defense and the offensive line and where does it get you?

If you have a top five offense and the 20th best defense, which would be a jump for them, that puts you in contention for a Super Bowl next year. It sounds crazy to say. So they've got six draft picks here, 17, 49, 81, and then three, day three

picks here. And that was the thing when Burrough said the thing about, Eagles did it. It's like Eagles also had like their best drafted, you know, 20 years. If you can just get Quinnian Mitchell and Cooper DeGine, if you can get that at 17 and 49. Now we're talking about a really, it doesn't, you can't count on it, but those are the types of swings where, you know, they can really make a difference. Yeah, but at the same time, like the

Eagles support all those resources into their quarterback and receivers and barely use the passing game. And it still didn't really hurt that. This is the opposite. Yeah. The Bengals will use their passing game. We definitely will. We know that from what we've seen. So good day. Yeah, good day in Cincinnati. If you're a Bengals fan, you got to be excited about this. All right, other little piece of news we can get to here quickly. Derek Stingley, the corner market. I think we just have to get used to like the cap is very high. There's a lot of money.

The teams are not going to give the money back or decrease, you know, what they what they ask for in a TV deal or ticket prices. The money has to go somewhere. Do you want the owners to get it or do you want the players to get it? So we just got to get used to some of these higher salaries. Derek Stingley gets $90 million with a big guarantee. first team all pro at a premium position, 23 years old last season.

And the guy was a first team all pro cornerback. So earlier this offseason, J.C. Horn got $25 million per year. That looked like the biggest deal for any cornerback. Now, Stingley tops that one pretty significantly. Deonti, I feel like you have been a big Stingley guy, I want to say, for a while. Let me know if I'm wrong about that.

I mean, this is from 2019 on. Yeah, I think I remember you during that draft. I think I remember you being like, are people overthinking this with Derek Stingley? So your guy will give him a your guy label here gets a nice deal here. It seems like, again, this is a no-brainer the type of player you want to lock up if you're the Texans. No-brainer. First fully healthy season. And he looks like he's maybe one, a half stride behind Patrick Sartan the second for best cornerback in the league.

I think for me, I was impressed by how far he blew ahead of J.C. Horn's number. It's a great job by him and his agent, negotiating to really push the corner market forward. Good on the Texans. You trade away Laramie Tumsel, probably to open the door. You know, probably starting to phase out some of your older veterans so you can open the door to pay your younger guys.

So good on them for getting this done ahead of time and not having him and Sauce Gardner kind of competing for resetting market value. Yeah, this makes sense for Houston. You know, last season five interceptions, this season five interceptions. And passed the ball skills, you just see the productivity on a, week by week basis. You saw in the postseason against the Chargers, I think that that really stamped it for a lot of people that like, oh, Derek Singley is now gone from really, really good corner on an impressive defense to he's the kind of guy you can't test in a playoff environment

because he can injure season, right? And I think that if he continues to play in that type of regard, we're going to see that this money ends up being a deal. I think that paying for him and signaling signals that they're going to pay Will Anderson, whatever it takes to reset, you know, the edge market. maybe not the edge market because Miles Garrett is at $40 million, but he'll be paid pretty handsomely, right, as well. So, yeah, for Houston's roster build. I mean, he very well could when you look at the age. I think he will actually, probably.

You know, so I think that this all makes sense for Houston. They're going to have to go land offensive linemen in the draft. I think that was going to be the plan no matter what. Yeah, I love Stingley, one of the best players in the league. I would not be surprised at all if he's right back of the defensive player of the year conversation by December of 2025. Yeah, Ruiz, I feel like we talk so much about then, rightfully so, the Texans issues on offense and the play calling and the O line. Their defense showed up last year.

I mean, their defense was awesome last year, not just in, you know, these beating up on bad quarterbacks and stuff in the regular season. The defense will get enough to beat the Chiefs. If they could block, they probably beat the Chiefs in a division or else. Yeah. They played great quarterbacks really, really tough. And that has been the case with Damiko Ryan's for a while. So to Deontes point, Will Anderson and Derek Stingley, they're, There aren't many better sort of building blocks for a defense in the NFL.

No, and Stingley's just like a foolproof, scheme proof cornerback too. Like there are some corners who have big year. Like going back to Richard Sherman, I loved Richard Sherman as a player, but he was like a zone corner for the most part who could get exposed by some shiftier wide receivers. I remember Keenan Allen having a lot of success against him because of that. But Stingley really isn't that. Like he locks up in man coverage. He's a playmaker in zone.

When he has zone eyes, he can look at the quarterback. You're just not worried about him at all. He's like a set it and forget it guy on the defense. And that has to be such a luxury for Damiko Ryan's when he's putting together a game plan. He can just be like, all right, Stingley's got that side of the field. And let's just worry about everybody else, the other 10 players. Yeah, like Deontes said, not a lot of corners in the NFL, you can say that about. So guys like Soss Gardner are pretty excited about this deal.

I would imagine and what's going on in the corner market here as well. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. we are going to hand out some awards. I actually just thought of a bonus award here as we were discussing there. Something jogged my memory that I,

let's be honest. I wanted to rip someone for. So we're going to do that also in the next segment. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show here. We've got some awards to hand out. We just made it free flowing. No rules. It doesn't have to be a team or a player or a media member or whatever. It can be anything you want.

We're kind of just going to go around the horn and see where these discussions end up taking us. Ruiz, you want to start us off. What is your first award or superlative from the offseason? I'm going to give out the Who's Gonna Stop This Offense Twitter Graphic Award to the Baltimore Ravens for signing DeAndre Hopkins. Oh, yuck. And honestly, like, when I first started researching this award

and looking at DeAndre Hopkins, I was a little lower on the move than I ended up being because Hopkins numbers weren't that bad. They were a lot better than I expected. last year we are seeing a dip in explosive play rate, which I think is a big deal when you're signing an outside receiver, and that's kind of what you're wanting to add to the offense. But he still can get it done against man. And I think that's what Baltimore needed. They needed a trustworthy target on like third and seven, third and six.

And he's a guy that can make those tough catches over the middle, or he can make a back shoulder catch. And I've been clamoring for Lamar to have that type of target on the outside. I wish it was four years ago. That version of DeAndre Hopkins, I think this version, creates even less separation than that one did. And separation was never really Hopkins, his thing. But he still doesn't drop passes.

And with Baltimore, as like a Lamar backer for all these years, the third down drops just always kill me. Their season ended on a drop by Mark Andrews. I feel confident saying, and this might backfire, I'm knocking on wood right now, that D'Andre Hopkins isn't going to drop like a key third down target in the playoffs next year. DeAndre Hopkins, DeA, did you like that signing?

by the Ravens because I'm a little on the fence, fence about if he's actually going to make an impact for them. Do I like the signing? It's almost a tricky question to answer. I will say for the first time, yeah, exactly. It's not a lot of money. And for the first time, I think, in a long, maybe in Lamar Jackson's career as a starting quarterback for the Ravens,

this kind of wide receiver graveyard signing that they're making, they don't actually have to rely on him to be much of anything within this office. This is not like when you were bringing in an Odell back. them. This is not like, you know, when you had, and this is not like bringing in some of the other veteran receivers that they've brought in over Lamar Jackson's time. And this is just dates back for a while with the Ravens. They like bringing in veteran receivers and seeing if they have one or two more years of productivity left in their legs. I think that this offense is pretty well built to insulate themselves against someone like Hopkins, not proving himself to be a dependable wide receiver three. I think that he'll be, if he, if all we see from him is a target share that we got from Nelson Agalore over the last couple of years, that's probably a net positive for them. Assuming that DeAndre Hopkins is as healthy as he needs to be to get through the season and that the Ravens were able to operate offensively similarly to how they did last year,

where it's a lot of quick game ball getting out of Lamar Jackson's hands fast. Outside the numbers are working in the middle of the field with Isaiah likely. I'm really fascinated to see what comes with Mark Andrews and his role in this team, assuming that he's still on the team by the time we get to the draft because I think that it might be wise to either release him see if you can trade them try to get off of some of his money. And I think that this is fine. I don't think that I don't think we're going to be having many conversations about the value

of DeAndre Hopkins to the Ravens offense by the time the season comes around. He's just going to be there to take up targets if Zay Flowers is having one of his drops these games. If Rashad Bateman can't get open deep downfield, I think that that's just another safe option to have underneath and that'll probably be fine for them in this passing game. Yeah, that's why I wanted to give this particular award, the who's going to stop his office? Because you could make a pretty sweet graphic with the Ravens offense.

It'd be like, whoa, look at all these guys. But I just don't think DeAndre Hopkins is going to be that guy, even if he does fill the role that Baltimore envisions for him in the offense. Yeah, the playoffs were weird for him. And there was like some injury stuff that you never really know about. But he only played 43 snaps out of their, what is this, 161 snaps in the playoffs. So I remember looking up being like, wow, he only played, you know, 12 snaps in that game. But again, I know there was some injury stuff there.

So who knows? So, yeah, you guys, I mean, they had the best offense in the NFL last year. So DeAndre Hopkins doesn't need to come in and change their offense. He just kind of needs to play a role. And that's like, you know, that's lower than sort of wide receiver three money based on some of the contracts that have been handed out. So this is definitely like role player. Can you come up, be reliable for us in some high leverage spots? I was going to ask.

I was going to ask. I like to use, I always want to compare what the options were, right? And if the options for Baltimore was, you pay six millions for a high. Hopkins, you trade away a day three pick to bring in a Debo, Samuel, or you pay $15 million you go to bring in Cooper Cup, which of the three fits Baltimore best? I think that this is probably the move that fits Baltimore best. Especially what Devante Adams ended up getting with the Rams. I think Devante Adams would have been the dream edition, but it was just a little bit out of their price rate. So I think this is the best case scenario for them. Hopefully it hits.

And if it doesn't, like, it's a low risk move, $6 million. And he just becomes the next old Ravens receiver who gives the offense very little to nothing. This is not a new storyline. Des Bryant Award. Exactly. Debo would have been nice for the Twitter graphic, though. I will say that. Oh, yeah.

As far as the who's going to stop this offense thing? Off the bus type. Yeah. That would have been. Prime Debo in this offense would have been amazing. Does Hopkins even make the graphic now that I think about it? Because you have Lamar on there, obviously. You have Mark Andrews, I think, still.

Isaiah likely might make it over Hopkins. Zay Flowers. Jay Flowers makes it over. Yeah, I don't know. How wide are we talking here? We would have to talk to. That's a big grass. Yeah.

Yeah. I was going to say, hey, we're really stretching this out now. All right, Deontay, what do you got? What's your first superlative or award? So to me, this is the John Wooden, do not confuse activity with achievement award. I've got a few teams. Okay. I got a few teams that I can throw here.

I'm kind of interested to see who you think this fits most of it. I've got the chargers here. I think maybe the best move of their cluster. might be signing Mackay Decton to your $10 million per year deal just because they definitely had a need on the interior line. But you look at bringing in Dante Jackson, some of the other vets that they've brought in. And I think there's an argument for taking the slow build approach with this roster

while you try to figure out exactly how much spending you want to do around Justin Herbert's contract. I just don't want Chargers fans to see the social media stuff where they're posting clips, the guys making one or two plays and thinking like, oh, Jim Harbaugh is going to get Pro Bowl level play out of all these guys. I don't know if that's going to be the case. I've got the Cowboys here who made a couple of trades to bring in Kenneth Murray, who has had a lot of problems everywhere he's been with dependability on a snap-to-snap basis.

You bring in Cairo Elam, who Buffalo was basically only excited to have on their roster of the day that they drafted him. It was like a week. Yeah, you know, and then quickly got beat out by Benford and some of their other young corners in the rotation. And I've got Kansas City here as well. We talked about what they've done with their offensive line. think that they made some moves that makes sense.

You keep Nick Bolton. I think they're bringing in Elijah Mitchell is just like another potential kind of receiving option out of the backfield might help them out a little bit. But I look at those three teams and I'm like, yeah, they've made some moves. I think they have definitely patched over a couple of holes. But when we talk about trying to set ceilings for each of these teams, I don't know if they've been made any higher than what they would have been before these moves were made. And that might be unfair in Kansas City's case because they were just in the Super Bowl.

and we kind of expect them to be competing to be in the AMC championship game, no matter what happens with that roster. I just don't know if much was accomplished for any of these teams over the last couple of weeks. I feel like the Chiefs probably deserve the award the most, just because they're the closest to being a championship contender. I feel like the Chargers are just doing like a modest build, like you said, like a slow build. They're trying to recover from Tom Telesco. That's actually what my next superlative is, is like the Tom DeLesco is really gone award.

And I think that's signified by Mike Williams coming back to the Chargers. for only $6 million a year after he would have had been tagged to come back. And Tom Telesco would have definitely tagged him and definitely giving him a big money deal. Instead, they have him for $6 million because that's what Telisco would do. He would hold on to the pieces that he drafted, the guys that worked out, the draft picks that worked out, and pay them too much money to the team's detriment. And I think the way they're building this roster up is a much smarter build. It's just taking a long time, but it's taken a long time because of where the cap situation was last offseason.

So I kind of appreciate their slow build. the Chesa just feels like you're seeing their roster just get a little bit worse and they're trying to fill those holes like bringing in Christian Fulton to kind of play cornerback when you've lost some manned corners over the last couple years like sure in theory that's a decent replacement

but on paper he's just not as good as those past corners they've had so they're just getting a little bit worse at the things that they used to do well like even I'm forgetting his name now the safety Justin Reed going to New Orleans I thought that was a big loss for them and I don't know how they're going to replace them we'll see how it works out

I know we talk a lot about the Chiefs. And again, everything with the Chiefs, you got to give the disclaimer. They could be in the Super Bowl next year, even if they don't make a draft pick. They could line up this exact team, and they could still be there. Having said that,

I would feel a little underwhelm, maybe a lot of underwhelm if I were a chief fan. Just a little uneasy, right? Yeah. When Ruiz said their roster got a little bit worse, I'm like, that we could probably have said that for what, three years in a row now? And again, it sounds stupid.

They've been to the Super Bowl for three straight seasons. But I mean, their signing of Jaylen Moore, that still, I know we talked about it on a previous show. It's one of the most interesting signings of the offseason to just be like, we see something in this guy. No one else sees that Kyle Shanahan didn't see. He hasn't played. And we're giving him $15 million a year to be our left tackle. And then your activity point is a good one. Deonti trading Joe Tunney.

I mean, I don't remember anybody talking about that that as an even a possible. after they lose the Super Bowl. So you trade him. You're not really adding to the past cashers. You're hoping Xavier worthy stays healthy. You bring back Marquise Brown. You lose Justin Reed on the defense. I just don't know exactly where it puts them.

I feel like I need to see what happens in the draft. And maybe I'll feel differently about them afterwards. But yeah, they do feel like a team where it's like, I don't know, sense of urgency or what? It feels like if I were a chiefs fan, I would just want my team to be like so aggressive to add a piece that I know is going to make an impact, whatever you have to do with cash, whatever you have to do with the cap, whatever you have to do with restructures.

Let's go win as many Super Bowls as we can over the next five years. And I don't care where that leaves us down the line. And I don't know that maybe they feel like they're operating in a smarter way, but I would feel some frustration about that. I feel like if I were a Chiefs fan. They're going to go 15 and two anyway.

It doesn't matter. You're going to look like morons in a couple months anyway. They are. Well, there's beyond analysis. The worst potential outcome to me from all these moves this off season is they go to the season, even if they are a playoff team, even if they make a deep run in the playoffs again, but they drag their feet on Trace Smith. And then you're looking like, Joe Tuni's gone. You took a chance on Jaylor Moore. He's got a hit.

You know, even at $15 million a year, which is not backbreaking, you bring him in to play a position that is of dire need for you. So if he doesn't work out, and if you're not able to land on a long-term extension for Smith, as Creed Humphrey's next deal, is approaching and they've got to figure out what they're going to do with this defense. Chris Jones is approaching, you know, is going to end up on the wrong side of 30. You know, there's just a lot that's up in the air that you need to have resolved soon

so that way we're not looking at them play out the middle of Patrick Mahomes is a long-term extension and feeling like they did not have as much to show for it as they could have if the roster construction was handled a little bit better. I need to do a deep dive on like the chiefs. Where is their money going? Because it's, I feel like I always,

we see like, oh, they can, you know, they don't have a lot of flexibility. And then I'm like, who are the great players that they, that they are paying right now? Patrick Mahomes, Chris Jones, uh, I guess Trace Smith has the cap hold. Like, you know, Trent McDuffie's not on that deal yet. You like, that's not a lot of players to be paying like, you know, huge amounts of money to, um, to have that roster. So yes, maybe that's a story for the later, later episode this offseason. Because I was thinking that recently.

Like, I don't know. are. How can they be so restrained when they don't have all of these roster spots locked up to big money? All right. Mine kind of jumps on what Deonti said. This is the, you're becoming your father or mother award goes to the New England Patriots. Now, let me try to bring this one home. Let's see if anyone understands where I'm coming from here. You know, you're growing up a lot of times. You look at mom or dad or whoever they do stuff. You find amusing. maybe if you have siblings, you kind of have some laughs about it. Like I was thinking about this prepping for the pot. We once went to Legoland.

Now, my dad was a grandparent at this time. Well, we go to Legoland, middle of the day, a guy just finds a bench. He's asleep. Taking a nap, two o'clock is chaotic. Kids scream. Yeah, that's a chaotic place, Deonti, you live near Lego Land there. You know what I'm talking about.

It's just like, that is not, we just looked at it. It started laughing. Where did he go? Oh, there he is. He's literally sleeping on the, the bench at 2 o'clock in the afternoon in Legoland. So I laugh at that. But now you know what? Take the kids to the movie sometimes. Those comfy chairs, those 30-minute previews, my eyes might be closing a little bit. And I'm able to take the nap. So that's what I'm coming from here.

So how does this relate at all to the Patriots? I remember a time not long ago where it was the start of the league year and free agents were being signed. And I don't know how the photo surfaced or circulated, but it was Bill Belichick. I think it was like K. Cod. Basically, he was on vacation. And the messaging was basically the Patriots laughing at all these dumb teams for spending all this money. And it's like, Belichick's going to be there at the end in January. He's just laughing at all of you, how you build your teams. Well, now kind of look at where we're at here. The Patriots are sort of the team that they used to make fun of. You know, I know they had a lot of cap space. You look at the deals they made. Milton Williams, $26 million per year.

Carlton Davis, $18 million per year, Harold Landry, $14.5 million per year. Roberts, Belaine, $12.5 million per year. It goes to kind of what Ruiz was talking about that. Like, when you have all that cap space, you have all that cap space for a reason. And usually you're overpaying the level of player that you're actually getting. And so I feel like Patriots fans are pretty excited because they spent all this money. And I'm not sure they're at the place that they might think they are. When you look at how they spent this money, I mean, you look at some of the receivers,

they tried to reportedly go after Chris Godwin. I think Adam Schaefter reported turned down a big raise to stay in Tampa versus going to New England. I think there were some reports that they were in on D.K. Metcalfe. That didn't happen. And so now the offensive players they've added to surround Drake May, who I think we all like Drake May, I was very pleasantly surprised by Drake May last year.

34-year-old tackle Morgan Moses, wide receiver, Matt Collins, tight-end Austin Hooper, and backup quarterback Joshua Dobbs. So again, I know they had cap space. All I learned about them is that like, hey, Mike Rabel likes some players. Go give that player the bag,

and I don't know exactly where it's gotten them this offseason. So, Deontay, am I being fair, unfair? What is your reading on the New England Patriots and what we've seen so far this offseason? I think the analogy is fitting. there are a lot of things that apply to New England. So there's what you're saying. Like I was thinking the quote that I always come back to,

I forget what NBA team it was applied to, but they ended up having to like, maybe it was a thunder after trading James Hardin. And the conversation there was like, welcome to the real NBA, where you don't just get to enjoy everybody being on rookie deals and we can fill out a roster that's stacked up. Like, no, eventually you have to make tough decisions.

For the Patriots fans, this is the real NFL, where you lose games, you're not in the position you'd like to be in. you've got a bunch of cap space and even more holes on your roster, and you've got to spend above your typical ticket price in order to bring guys in. In a lot of ways, you can look at each of these deals individually and say, okay, that might make sense money-wise. Maybe Milton Williams is a biggest stretch because you just haven't seen him at high volume yet. You're kind of banking on him playing the best football of his career while he's on this deal with you.

Carlton Davis, a couple million dollars maybe over what you'd like to pay for what's going to be a cornerback too, but a very dependable play. Harold Landry and you can go down the line. But you look up and it's like you spend above ticket price because these were major holes on your roster that you had to fill. They still have not addressed what is the most important thing. Then you noted this shield, they need offensive playmakers. They need a better offensive line to build around Drake May, to just build a more balanced, healthy offensive system around Drake May. So if I'm a Patriots fan, not only am I concerned that you didn't walk away with enough on the offensive line at receiver for you to feel better,

I think you're probably looking at your head coach if you're pessimistic and wondering, are we sure that you know how to handle a rookie quarterback, a rookie deal quarterback who has the kind of talent that Drake May has because you don't have to treat this guy like Ryan Tannahill, right? And I think that for them maybe it's a little bit incomplete because they may leave the draft with a couple of guys that we're really happy with that fit the timeline with Drake May

and, you know, are high floor players that can show up and contribute right away. I just right now I'm looking at the contract that they handed out and looking at the debt chart and saying, all right, well, that's not a gaping hole anymore, but it doesn't actually make you ready to compete in the AFC East with Buffalo, right? And I think that that's where they need to get as quickly as possible while Drake May is on this rookie deal. Yeah, I would even go back to 2021. I think that's when they had their big free agency spending spree with Belichick. That was like the first time they really did it because they had a bunch of cap space for the first time. They had to spend it because you have to spend the

money. There is a cap floor. But the approach is just, what confuses me. It just seems like you brought in Rable to be the new Belichick, basically, to build the defense. You just don't really need star players. You just need guys that will do a job. But they kind of went the other way with it, and they're spending money on defense to bring in some stars, including Carlton Davis. And the offense, what did they bring in? Mac Hollins?

I don't know. It just seems rough right now for Drake May. The outlook for next year doesn't seem any better than it did going into last year. And I think that was the key to this offense. And maybe they are trying to build through the draft. And maybe they are just saying, hey, we have this cap space. We have to spend it. We might as well spend it on these guys that we think are going to help the defense from day one.

While we kind of build the offense properly, I just agree that I wouldn't be excited about these additions if I was a Patriots fan. You're kind of like replacement level additions. Yeah. Let's see what the draft looks like. Maybe it's a different story. But yeah, you felt like, man, what Drake May showed last year, priority number one, help him, whether it's offensive line or past catchers. And again, I know they tried.

They tried for some, but it's still okay to be disappointed that those plans didn't come through. And now you're here with Mack Collins and Morgan Moses and Austin Hooper going into the draft. I mean, that is not great when your quarterback really showed last year. He can operate in a less than ideal environment. It doesn't mean you want him to. He can operate there, but go ahead and make his life easier. I'm not sure that's happened this offseason for the Patriots. All right.

Let's take a break. We got some more awards. to get to. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Ruiz, what do you have? Any more for us? Yeah, I'm going to go with the move that makes too much sense for it to actually work out, and that's Devante Adams to the Rams. I just think he fills in such an obvious hole with them getting rid of Cooper Cup and then wanting to be better against man coverage. You look at Devante Adams' numbers against man coverage, and those haven't really gone down over the last couple years. He's one of the best there. I am, the one thing I am concerned with, we've kind of talked about them

seemingly wanting to get back to that Jared Gough style of offense where you're running the football. And I just don't know how Devante Adams fits in with that structure for the offense. But it just seems to make so much sense and just knowing NFL history, recent NFL history, these moves that make

so much sense never work out when the regular season actually starts. So that's my one concern is that it's too good to be true. But if it does work out, I don't want to say anything about the defense. I don't know what that defense is going to look like. It's volatile year to year. I know they made some strides last year, but progression isn't linear and there's no guarantee they're going to get better because their young players are going to get better.

But that offense is Super Bowl worthy if everything hits. So you think that this could be one where we're in like week 10 being like, man, we all like that Devante Adams move so much. But I'm trying to figure out what the butt would be. Deontes that he shows decline. I mean, injury is always, you know, that's going to always be a possibility. But I'm kind of with you. I mean, I was trying to think about the NFC West earlier today, the NFC as a whole. And man, to have a nice pass rush and it's a bunch of young player.

So it's not like, hey, these guys are going to decline. You're right. It's not linear. But it's a bunch of young pass rushers, an offensive mind and quarterback combination that you would trust pretty much as much as any in the NFL. And then Pook and the Kou and DeVante Adams at wide receiver. And you still have the draft. I would be pretty excited, Deonti, if I'm a Rams fan, right? It might not work out, but like you have to kind of like where you're at.

I think that you're fine with where you're at. I think that you're probably where you need to be considering the fact that your quarterback's 37 years old. But I also think that on the other side of that are the concerns with our ex-receiverer is 32 and our starting quarterback is 37. Yeah, that's true. And it's entirely possible you get to mid-October and not necessarily that they're hurt because injury looms for everybody, especially as you advance an age. So I don't want to hang up the conversation with injury risk.

the issue to me is what happens if you get to Halloween and Matthew Stafford is the 11th best quarterback instead of playing like a top five to eight quarterback. What happens if Devante Adams is in the 20s in terms of how you're ranking receivers and not a top 15 receiver? That just, it depresses your ceiling so much. And now you are having a conversation about is Byron Young as an edge rusher still looking as good as he has in the first two years of his career? did did Jared take another step forward? Does he look like a Will Anderson where it's like,

okay, by the end of your rookie deal, you're going to be a defensive player of the year type of candidate, right? Is Braden Fis still producing? Is Kobe Turner still producing? There's just, to me, I think you can just easily identify with Los Angeles, all the different stress points that exist on the roster because it's not perfectly aligned timeline-wise

in terms of where everybody is at with their trajectory and their career. The defense could very easily be, in the 20s in terms of DVOA next season. Not because they're doing anything wrong, but like Stephen said, their edge rush just might not be ready to take that next step forward

to be a perennial top 12, top 10 type of unit. The offensive line had its issues last season, and they're going to need guys to be healthy. They need Steve Avila to be the player that they thought he was going to be in year two of his career as an interior lineman. They're definitely banking on that. They need a Lerick Jackson to stay healthy.

They need Rob having seen to have another good year in them as he approaches his mid-30s. There are just a lot of different stress points, and this roster is not really built for any of those guys to take a step back, to be hurt and miss time, for them to have any issues with continuity and playing at their best. I was just watching them in December, and I think we had this conversation a couple times on the podcast with we're used to Los Angeles looking a certain way as they approach the playoffs. When they have good playoff runs, they look like they're clicking on all cylinders. It didn't look like that last season. I think they got a great draw with getting Minnesota as they were kind of cresting and heading in the wrong direction in the wild card. And it looked good in the snow against Philadelphia.

I don't know if that's a data point that you can take and say, hey, we were one great two-minute drill away from going to the NFC championship game. That was best-case scenario. I don't know if they're going to get best-case scenario. But I do think that they're still in position to be able to win the NFC West. And to me, with the quarterback at Matthew Stafford's age at this stage in his career, that's got to be all you. can hope for and just hope you get a good draw like you did to open up the playoffs last season. I do think switching out Cup for Adams makes it a little more realistic that you are going to get the best case scenario with Cup. It wasn't like, is he going to get injured? It's like when is he going

to get injured? When is it going to happen? Right. And even if he's healthy, does he still have the juice that he used to have? And like just based on the film and that's all as we can go off of, we don't really have, we're not privy to his medical history or his medical records or anything like that. it doesn't seem like he has it anymore. And Devande Adams, still on film, still pops off the film, still can move and still make plays down the field, even with the lesser quarterback. And this might be the best quarterback he's played with since Aaron Rogers was an MVP candidate, which was four years ago at this time, or three years, I guess. Yeah, they have a chance. That's like a theme of some of these things in the show.

Bengals, you have a chance. Yeah, Rams, you have a chance. That's all you can ask for if you hit that whatever 95th percentile outcome, are you actually a Super Bowl? team. And, you know, it's a yes or no for every team. And for those two teams, I think it's a yes. And there was a scenario where the Rams, we're having a conversation where it would be a hard no. Whatever the best version is of this team, it's not close to a Super Bowl team. I think things worked out for them here this offseason. All right, Deontay, what do you got? What's next? So this one for me is the incomplete grade award. I thought that this actually applied to Cincinnati

and we talked about some of the reasons why with them needing to nail the draft. The other team that I'm thinking about in this regard is Jacksonville Jaguars, who I think have done a lot, who've done a pretty good job at bringing in role players that should fit Liam Cohen and Anthony Campanil's offensive and defensive philosophies. They're just another team that I think has to nail the draft if we're going to see them make the leap in the AOC South that we need them to make in order to be a playoff contending type of team. You need to see them add on the defensive interior. I think that if you've been paying attention to some of what they've been saying publicly, they are definitely signaling that they want to take maybe multiple swings in the draft at bringing in young guys that can play on the defensive interior, help them stop the run, which I think has been an issue for them.

Definitely was an issue for them last season. I think bringing in a different defensive style is going to help them not give up as many explosive plays. I like Ryan Nielsen. I just don't know what he was trying to do fit with their defensive setup at the time. And then I think they need to take a couple of chances on offensive linemen, especially on the interior as well. bringing in Patrick McCarrey makes sense, given how bad their interior was last season, but he is kind of getting up there in age.

Sheel, I think you made the point, both in the free agency rankings and in the podcast, right? The theory of Patrick McCarrey is he can do anything. The problem with Patrick McCarrey is that he doesn't do anything at the level that you would like for him to do in order to be the kind of player that, you know, gets so much time spent talking about him in every like Ravens broadcast when he's playing, right?

This guy can play center. He can play tackle. He's on both sides of the offensive line. Oh, it's in there. Deonté, don't. get me started with those things. This guy can line up at five different positions. But is he good at any of them?

You can only play at one. The Isaiah Simmons problem. It's the Isaiah Simmons problem. The same 1,000 percent. PFF graphic, you know, yeah, those guys never worked out. And I want to say that, like, they've done a lot of things that makes sense. Bringing in Diamie Brown as a potential Z receiver guy, you can move around. Makes sense with building around Brian Thomas Jr.

If he's the kind of player that we saw him to be as a rookie, if he continues to produce at that level. I do think that they'll be a little bit better in the backfield with Travis E.N. and Tank Bigsby under Liam Cohen because we've seen those body types, those style of running do really well in Tampa Bay with him last season. So there's a lot that I think we can end up leaving April feeling like, hey, Houston should be looking over their shoulder a little bit in the division

because Jacksonville has enough pieces to compete. I just need to see how the draft turns out for them. What a hilarious team. You know, I'll admit, I just had to love. look up to remind myself what the general manager's name was. I can picture this guy. His face was all over my Twitter timeline at the combine. Very young looking. James Gladstone is his name. I mean, what an offseason. By name and by like visual aesthetic, he 1,000% looks like you went into Langley and said, who was the most FBI agent looking guy that actually wants to be part of a football operation?

That is exactly what that guy looks like, the haircut, the look, the age, all of it. it. I'm like this is a side. This feels like a football sciop for me. They made this guy at a lab to be a general manager. I mean, it's hilarious going from the, we're keeping bulky. We can't hire anyone. We're not keeping bulky. Liam Cullen. Liam Cohen to get him, you got to have him ghost his former team. Bucks are telling everyone he's not answering our text messages. You hire him. You give him all this control, all this money. Then you go to the combine. No one knows who your GM is. then you hire this guy just a hilarious franchise,

the Jacksonville Jaggores. But to your point, who knows? Maybe it'll work out for him. Liam Cohen did a good job with the Bucks last year as well. But yeah, I don't think I've gotten past the comedy to get to the individual move. So that was a nice recap, a nice reminder for me. All right, I've got the old takes exposed award. This is like the take I have that I'm most nervous about.

We're going to get to like week 13 next year. and I'm going to be like, oh, man, I'm just getting crushed for this. And for me, I feel like it's the same one that I would have got crushed for going into last season. And it has to do with Sam Darnold. This time it has to do with the Seattle Seahawks. I mean, I didn't believe in them last year. I thought the Vikings not going to work out. They're 14 and 3 chance to be the number one seed going into week 18.

Well, guess what? I'm ready to be heard again with the Seahawks. I want to be in getting clear. I understand the plan. I just don't like the plan and I don't think the plan is going to work out. And I don't know how closely you guys have been kind of following some of the coverage in the week since. But there's sort of this interesting back and forth about, wait, what did the Seahawks actually offer Gino Smith? What were their intentions going into the off season?

You know, I think John Schneider and the Seahawks are saying, we made a competitive offer. They never even countered the offer. and it feels like Gino's camp is saying, no, like you knew what the offer was and you made an offer that was well below that and you've had time for this. Why would we make a counter? We just wanted to be done with it

and go somewhere else. And then there's like D.K. Metcalf stop where the Seahawks are saying, no, we wanted to keep both these guys. This is from the athletics, Michael Sean Dugar. He wrote, Metcalf's trade request did not come as to surprise to Schneider

who had been in talks with him about personal problems. I thought we could fix it, handle it, whatever it was, Schneider said. At the end of the day, it was a no, and he wanted to be traded. So we pivoted and moved forward. We want guys who want to be here. We want guys who believe in what we're doing. You'd have to ask him for specifics for one reason or another. He just wanted to move on and get a fresh start. It's just weird stuff's happening. And I feel, I wonder if some of this is like, I was thinking about this earlier today. Is this just the byproduct of when you follow Pete Carroll

with someone else and every player loves Pete Carroll and it's this great environment that even if Mike McDonnell is a likable guy, that players go from one thing to the other and are like, no, no, no, this isn't how it was. We don't love this. I don't know if there's it, but those are just some, but like, right, Deonté, those are some weird

quotes about the D.K. Metcalf situation. Very weird quotes. And I would say, like, talking and listening to what he was saying in the kind of on the heels of the Gino trade and not listening to that quote about D.K. Metcalf, I'm looking at Josh Snyder, And I'm just asking like, do you know that your hands are on the wheel here? Like, you know that this is your team now, right?

Like, this isn't Pete's team. You don't have to follow, you know, your powerful head coach is bidding. But it's almost to me, he talks almost as though there's still a little bit of distance between him and the ultimate decisions that are being made and talking about the negotiation for the trades and how you want to be careful about what it is that you're asking for and what you're getting in return, what you mentioned about D.K. And his trade request and talking about Gino Smith and the contract, you know, the contract situation with them. I'm wondering, like, do you really have the juice that I thought you might have

had? I was always under the impression that Schneider and Carol were working in concert until the very end, and maybe because of the Russell Wilson situation, and maybe how Pete Carroll wanted to try to build the defense and the offensive line and things like that, that they might have just had a bit of some minor deviations that ultimately led them to need an apart ways. This to me feels like John Snyder was just a passenger this entire time and hasn't yet figured out exactly what he wants to do in terms of building up this franchise. And that to me, if I were a Seahawks fan, would be of the ultimate concern now. Because this team now is very quickly going to find themselves in a situation where Sam Donald has to be the best that he can be,

another team that has to nail the draft because now you've lost talent, some very necessary talent on offense. You're not going to be able to bank on Cooper Cup being available for 15 games, let alone an entire 17 game season. And they were close to being a playoff team last year. I don't know where this team is. I do not envision them this offseason ending up in this kind of weird NFL purgatory. And it's very easy to me for me to look up and say, Mike McDonald's tenure as a head coach might end up being wasted here because they haven't given him the ingredients that he needs to be contending.

And that we might have to put John Schneider under the microscope a little bit as a franchise decision maker. You do worry that there's like some false confidence built up in John Schneider over the last decade plus just because of some of the moves that have worked out that are, I wouldn't say lucky, but they are kind of lucky. Like, you get Russell Wilson in the third round. It's kind of lucky you find a franchise quarterback. You move on from him when everyone thought it was a dumb move and thought you should pay him

and thought you got the raw end of the trade. And then it ends up working out as well as anyone could have predicted. And then the cornerback group, like the Legion of Boom, you draft all these guys on day three except for Earl Thomas and they happen to work out. And then you're like, oh, if we just draft big corners, we can do this again. And then guess what happened? It didn't work out. and I think they're in danger of kind of figuring that out

over the next couple of years. At least John Schneider, that part of it. Mike McDonald, like, I'm still very high on him as a coach, but I do think there is something there to what you said, Sheel, like you go from Pete Carroll to Mike McDonald. It's like a totally different style of coaching. It's a 180-degree turn. And it just, it's, I think you got to revisit John Schneider's tenure as GM.

And maybe he hasn't earned as much trust as you would think as him being just such a long-tenured. GM right now. To me, Stephen, I think you kind of hinted at it. We talked about this with Indianapolis. Messaging and posturing is everything. Like perception is very much reality to me in off-season with the NFL. And if moving on from Pete Carroll, if it wasn't just, oh, we're taking the basketball hoop out, you know, when Mike McDonnell comes in. And that's going to be the way that we, you know, turn the culture thing over from Pete to Mike. If that was really that big, if that loomed that large in the building, that's not enough.

John Schneider needed to be out front and center and say, this is my team now. We are going to wash this franchise of the last 15 years of what it was under Pete Carroll, and we're going to start totally anew. And that might have meant that Gino Smith, who clearly was Pete's guy, is going to be out of the building last off season. We're going to take our medicine in year one and see what we can build from there. To me, I'm starting to see what feels like a bunch of half measures in this regard. And half measures just don't get rewarded in this.

league, especially for a team that was not ready to be a Super Bowl contender, regardless of what happened this offseason. But taking half measures, I think, ended up landing them multiple steps behind where they could have been by this time, had they kept Gino, figured out the contract, kept D.K. Metcalfe or traded them in a way where if you have Gino and then you trade D.K., we're probably having a different conversation in that regard as well, because at least you've got a quarterback that people believe in for at least the next year or two. I just don't know if I'm going to, I don't know if I've seen anything. And I don't know if we will. see anything this offseason that's going to hint towards Seattle having any idea of how to make a

quick roster pivot under John Schneider and Mike McDonald. I have the solution. And, Shil, you're free to steal this and you could do like a little bit with the wig and the consultation firm type thing. I'm excited. Change the uniforms. Go back to the royal blue and green uniforms. Maybe modernize them a bit just to separate yourself from the 90s team.

But you've got to get rid of that era of the Seahawks, which is defined by those uniforms and how they look. you move on a little bit. Like the Patriots kind of did with their uniforms once Tom Brady left, that obviously didn't really work out in their fame. Seattle has some better pieces to work with. Yeah, I mean, they go from...

It's a better uniforms to go back to. Honestly, they should just go back to the uniforms anyway. They're easily the best uniforms. Beautiful uniforms. There's no doubt about that. The largence all over the stadium there in that beautiful blow. But yeah, I mean, just on the field,

they go from Gino Smith, D.K. Metcalfe and Ryan Krub to Sam Darnold Cooper Cup and Clint Kubiak. I know they get the draft pick and I know they're saving money, but we're just talking about, hey, if they had to play a game on Sunday, and I just don't know exactly, you know,

where that gets you, if you're this, and the stuff about, you know, that they're them saying that no, we wanted Gino Smith and D.K. Metcalf, but the, you know,

the hint is that they wanted to be somewhere else. That is a little weird to me. I don't know. I know money's a factor and all that, but that's a little weird to me. because for so long, that's just been a place where players wanted to go and wanted to play. And the players who were there were like staunch advocates that you're going to love it here in the environment and stuff.

So they got a lot of work to do. But yeah, I mean, that is one of my strongest dances of the offseason is that for a team I was bullish on going into last year. And I'm with you. I like Mike McDonald, heard great things about him, did a good job with that defense last year. I have real questions about the Seahawks team going into 2025. So maybe I'll be proven wrong again. I was proven wrong when, you know, that Gino's.

Smith year when his first year as a starter, I didn't think they were going to be good. And they were good then. I didn't think the Vikings were going to be good with Sam Darn the last year. So maybe this is a combination of all those things. And I'm going to look stupid once again. All right, Ruiz, do you have any more for us? Yeah, I have your home now for unhinged defensive players. CJ Gardner Johnson, just going to the Texans.

I don't think it's going to move the needle at all. But I just love that fit so much. And he's going to get so many personal foul flags. And that defense is just going to, they might. set the record for personal foul foul flags. But I really do think that's an identity move. And I think if they make a run in the playoffs next year, we're going to be talking about CJ Gardner Johnson

and be like he may not be like an all pro, but he changed the locker room, or not changed it, but add it to the locker room and made this team just a better unit, a stronger unit. And I do think he fills in some holes with them. I don't know if that changes Petrie's role in the slot. I doubt it does.

But I am interested to see how this defense looks, if it's even faster than it was last year and more ferocious than just flying around just hitting people with their helmets. Helmets first. Yeah, I like that fit. He played well last year. You're right. You can just picture it, him being a good player for them.

So, yeah, I like that one, no doubt. I think Steve was next year, by the way. I think Steve, we missed a couple of names. There are a couple former 49ers who are definitely home now playing for Vance Joseph between Tijuana and Ophanga and Greenlaw. I have Greenlaw and Hufango. Yeah, they're another one that fit this. award and I can't wait to see that either.

Like that's the, I feel like those defenders are kind of back. They kind of went out of style. I would say like 10 years ago when people like didn't want to sign any more box safeties or just safeties that just hit hard. But now we got them. We got the sicko linebackers and safeties.

There you go. Everything cyclical. All right. And then for me, I've got one more. So you'd better be right award. We don't have to spend much time on this because you're a lot of teams that we've talked about throughout the last couple of weeks.

The commanders to me is at the top of the list. here trading for Tunsel and Debo who might be guys that you brought in two years too late in both cases, right? Giving up draft capital to bring guys in even though they do fill needs playing for Javon Kinlaw,

$15 million a year. I mean, you don't talk about unhinged. Like that's just that was the worst contract. Wild behavior. Just absolutely wild behavior from Adam Peter. So, yeah, you guys just better be right about what you think of these players and what they can give you as veterans. I've got the Titans on this

to, and I think that they might be able to fit into the incomplete award. If you go get Cam Ward first overall, then maybe everything is fine. But not being in on any veteran quarterback. You bring in Dan Moore, who I do think will help them. They had a need at left tackle. I think moving J.C. Latham back to right tackle, which is what he played in college, makes a lot of sense. But you bring in like an aging Kevin Zitler who got hurt last year.

I had to miss some time. I have some concerns about whether or not that offensive line has actually been addressed to a satisfactory level. I'm still unclear on the defensive vision. You look at that depth chart around Jeffrey Simmons, and it's like I like to buy Andre Sweat as a player. I don't really know what I'm doing with this defensive backfield right now. The linebacker room is still kind of in flux a bit.

So those are teams that you better be, it better became word at number one overall looking at that roster right now. And then the rest of the draft better, you know, kind of blow me away in terms of adding pieces that can contribute right now in that respect. And then the last one is just like double-checked, the double-checked navigation award because I'm not sure where they're going. And that's Indianapolis. I just keep looking at this roster and I just keep thinking about the Anthony Richards

situation. And the question I keep coming back to is, where is this team going? What is the positive outcome here? I wanted to kind of posit this team in the team. I'll say one positive outcome. Gus Bradley is gone. No more Gus Bradley. That's the positive outcome.

Bigaloo is in. At least you got a defensive coordinator that will call different coverages now. Very true. Very true. And I think even with Lou. I got nothing else, though. I got nothing else. Yeah, even with Lou, I look at Lou Anuruma, who is somebody I like as a play caller. But I just think, like, was he just a Jesse Bates turnover on turnovers in high leverage games merchant?

How dare you? I just, I don't know what the sample size outside of that one playoff run is just not very friendly. He came up with the idea of Rush 3 against Patrick. I'm joking. That probably didn't really matter that much. If Mahomes doesn't melt down, we, we, I probably don't even have a nickname for Big Lou. I look at Indianapolis and it's like, again,

a lot of pieces that make sense, their tackles are fine. Obviously having Jonathan Taylor is fine. Their wide receiver room is underwhelming. But if you just go name by name, it's like, okay, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. Especially when all their guys are healthy. You look at the defensive depth chart.

And it's a lot of guys who can contribute and have contributed in this league for a while. But all this just comes back to how they've handled the Anthony Richardson development. I just don't have any trust in that. And I just have so many concerns that if he has any kind of game that that brings us to this podcast talking about how many issues he's had with accuracy or decision making or whatever the case may be that Jim Mersey is going to come down and say, I gave $15 million

to Daniel Jones. So that way I didn't have to look at this anymore and play Daniel Jones. And if you don't win with Daniel Jones, everybody's fired. And maybe that's just what needs to happen. That's a saddest statement I've ever. hurt in my life. I paid $15 million for Daniel Jones and I want to see them. Just going back to the Titans thing, if it's not Cam Ward, like, I think you're right about this. Like, what is Brian Callahan doing? Like, this is your chance to be a head coach. This is a year two. The first year was a

disaster. Like, in terms of results, and then you on the sideline yelling at your quarterback and doing all that. We were ahead of the curve on that on this show. Like, what's this guy's deal? If it's not, like, I'm totally with you. I don't know why they didn't go after a veteran quarterback. even if you do bring in Cam Ward, that's a precarious situation for a coach who I think has to have a good year this year. Yeah, maybe we should do a stuck in mud episode

just like these teams. We're like, what are you doing? You know, have a plan. The plan might not work. But some of you, it's just like, well, yeah, the Titans, the Colts, this is the year. You're going to pay these free agents when you're, you know, Charverius Ward and Cambinem.

Like, you've had other teams that were way more competitive and you're just sitting out any opportunity to participate in free agency. So yeah, those are good ones for sure. All right, I've got a couple quick ones here to end. The We Are the New Jets Award goes to the New York Giant. Now, this isn't necessarily a defense of the New York Jets, but it is on my radar. I've mentioned it before how the Jets get made fun of, you know,

too much over the Giants for those two teams in the city. This was a tweet that came across my timeline earlier today. free agent QB, James Winston is scheduled to visit the Giants on Tuesday per sources while the New York Brain Trust waits for Aaron Rogers decision. It's continuing to visit with alternatives, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, and now Winston, the former number one overall pick. So that is where you're at with the Giants quarterback plan in an offseason where the GM is trying to save his job. They also signed Javon Holland to a contract, which I thought was a good contract, but then you put it together with the fact that they had Xavier McKinney in the building, drafted him, developed him.

They let him walk in free agency last year. He plays great for the Packers. And now a year later, you're out there signing a free agent to a very similar contract. Darius Slayton has been on your team. It feels like for 25 years. And every trade deadline, every time he's a free agent, you have no use for him. And now this offseason, you're paying him $12 million per year. You thought, all right, this is going to be our best option.

You had to say you ended offseason hard knocks, which was great football content. But because you were so embarrassed, now we don't get to watch that this off season because of the Sequan thing last year. And then I feel like we still forget about the Daniel Jones contract extension that this regime signed. I feel like it's sort of what you're talking about with Schneider, Deante, where they're like, yeah, whoever did that. You know, that put us in a bad spot. No, that was you. That was you who did that. So for people who are trying to save their job, this is a sad attempt to try to save your job where the giants are right now.

And I've mentioned this before, but last 10 years, the Jaguars have the fewest wins in the NFL at 55. 31st is the Jets at 56. Right. 30th are the New York Giants at 57. So we just, if it's a, if the Jets can make. up a game here, Jets fans. You can overtake the Giants and you can get on my bandwagon

and be like, all right, we have a lot of our own issues. Everyone's making the brick jokes and Madden and all that. But don't forget about those guys. They also don't know what they're doing. So that was the purpose of that award. There you go. It feels like they're trying to win season two of offseason hard knocks

with these moves. And it's not going to work. They seem like a showrunner who's desperate to keep it. One more season. We've turned around this season. We'll be back. You guys did ruin the show. It's pretty funny that they ruined the show. Yeah, there you go. And my last one, this is for if you are a young enterprise and content creator who wants to get in the NFL space. I have an idea for you. This is what you do when you get older. You start handing out jobs to, yeah, I don't want to do this, but it would be a good idea.

I need someone to track the initial contract reporting for some of these free agent signings and then go to overthecap.com and compare it to what the player actually signed for. And let's shame these agents and maybe insiders. I want your guys that put on that. Do we shame the agents and the insiders or just the agents? And we'll have a little spreadsheet, be like, you know how the insiders will quote the agents in their tweets? Now we can be like, watch out so and so from athletes first. I don't know if it's athletes first.

Don't get mad at me. But you know what I'm saying? Last year they reported this. So the most bloated contract I found this offseason was Byron Murphy Jr. That was initially reported at 22 million per year. And it ended up being 18 million per year. So over the course of a three year deal, you are $12 million off with the initial reporting details. Listen, one million, all right?

I understand you got a job to do. Two million seems to be the norm. I still want to make fun of you. But once you get over two million, dollars per year difference in what you're leaking and what the insiders are reporting. I got issues. And so I need somebody to track this. So at this time next year, we just call out all of these agents. Deonti, you with me? Not only were they multiple millions of dollars off. $22 million per year basically puts him one step behind what J.C. Horn signed. That's why I was like,

oh, okay, I didn't know that Byron Murphy was that valuable to Minnesota, but apparently his agent did a great job in negotiating the deal. And then you look up, like you said, days later. And it's like, oh, okay, I see. Somebody was a little thirsty to get, get some pre-agency news up on the Twitter feed. I get what's going on here. So yeah, I'm totally, totally with you. We need to do a much better job of vetting what we're hearing from agents via, you know, our insider slash newsbreakers in national NFL coverage. I think she'll, you got a show or agent issue, Ruiz. What do we got? It's an insider issue to me. Okay.

They're the filter. They're the ones that can be like, no, I'm not tweeting this out. I can report it objectively. But I have a solution for you. Go to Indy next year, show up at the Starbucks, camp out, and confront some people. You have the platform now. We need a, we need a shield right there at the Starbucks with the bullhorn, just yelling at, yelling at every agent that walks by. Hey, there's so-and-so.

He reported, but that might not be bad content. Shame, though. interrupted the fight and been like, no, both of you guys are the problem here. All right, so we'll see. We'll see if that one gets any traction by the time next season rolls around. All right, I'm out of a word. Do you guys good? Yep.

Everyone's good. All right, there you go. We'll be back later this week. Aaron Rogers Watch somehow still continues as Minnesota. Want to be released from this hell, please. Yes, please, please. So we'll see if we get to that later this week or not, if not. We will talk about something else.

All right. Thank you to Stephen Ruiz. Thank you to Deonti Lee. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Conorne Evans and Arjuna, Ram Gopal. I'm Sheila Kapadia. We will talk to you next time on The Ringer NFL show.