The Ringer NFL Show - The Best (and Worst) Places to Be a QB (Ep. 116)

Episode Date: July 14, 2017

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark get together to discuss the importance of supporting casts to a quarterback's success (01:45) and which signal-callers got the most help this offseason (05:00). Then Danny Kelly joins the show to give his opinion on the three most overlooked offseason acquisitions (17:45). Lastly, Mays and Clark rank their five most desirable teams in terms of supporting casts, as well as their least desirable (48:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NFL show. My name's Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the ringer. Joining me on the other line, it's Kevin Clark. Kevin, how are you? A little disappointed. As you know, I tried to, like, the next 45 minutes, tried to pitch just Bruce Ariens talking about paint and eating paint,

and that got vetoed. I thought we should have done like a taste test of sorts. Like Jacoby and Juliet used to do on Food News, which I assume they'll do on House of Carbs now. That was my move. We just tried different paint samples, not how they look, but how they taste. So if you missed it,

and I'm not sure how you would miss it. Bruce Ariens wrote a book. The book, I don't know. I mean, Mays, you've read it. I've read large chunks of it. I've dug into it a little bit. I haven't read the whole thing. Is it the best book ever written? It might be. Yeah. I think it could surpass, you know, whatever your intro for the Great American novel is. I understand it's not a novel, but it's still on that level of literature. Sure. Just the overall craftsmanship that goes into it. It'll be taught in schools for years to come. When you're talking about great introductions to books, You know, you got a lot of Dickens in there. You obviously have the Great Gadsby, Nick Carrey introducing everything.

And then you have Bruce Ariens talking about how he was allergic to milk, but he still needed a way to be strong in neighborhood football games. And so he drank paint. And twice he had to get his stomach pumped. And he continued to drink paint. I would say I've always had sort of a wild side is right up there in my younger and more formidable years. Yeah. In terms of first lines of great American literature, it's side by side.

I don't think you can pick one or with the other. Yeah, it's, what a book. What an anecdote. Instead of Bruce Ariens and paints, we're going to be talking about, again, in our kind of series of bigger picture NFL ideas that we've done. We're going to discuss the best place to be a quarterback in the NFL right now. What we mean by that, it's multi-prong, right? So it's not just your receivers.

It's not just your offensive line. It's the entirety of the situation that you can step into. And that goes as far as ownership, you know, general managers, how much stability there is. Which franchises prop their guys up the most? It's fascinating to me. We look at supporting cast and I think we only think about receivers, offensive line tight ends. Last year, the New England Patriots most common lineup played only 60 snaps together,

63 snaps together. And so it's not 11 guys. It's not, you know, the 10 guys around the quarterback. It has to be, first of all, the depth of the team. And then beyond that, I mean, the coordinators are just as important. As you said, the owners, the coaches, the, you know, the stadium, hell, you know, the weather. I mean, that all comes into effect. And I think why this matters now, maybe in a way it wouldn't have you in a couple of years ago,

is that we have these two different timelines of quarterbacks in the league right now. You have your Brady's and your mannings and all the not manning anymore. Well, Eli, I guess. But the older generation. And then you have the younger one, where it's these guys that are kind of in their second, third, fourth years that are clearly going to be the next class. And a lot of the guys in that group have either been affected by the situations that they're in or they've changed so much in the last off season that it's going to be worth watching going

forward. And the guys I think about in that group are really the second year guys, Dak, Wentz, Goff, and just how much situation plays into what we've seen from them so far. and what we can expect to see from them going forward. You know, the thing we always, we talked about a lot last year was the situations that those three guys were put in because they were very, very different. And the sort of viral tweet we all talked about

from Chris Wessling of the NFL network in September showed that Jared Goff, his supporting cast around him was Jeff Fisher, who is Jeff Fisher, by the way, Rob Boris, who was a former tight ends offensive line coach, and then Chris Winkie was quarterback's coach. And that was his first year in the NFL as a coach. Wentz, meanwhile, and we're not saying that the staff is perfect, but Wentz had Doug Peterson former NFL QB, Frank Reich, former NFL QB, long-time offensive coordinator, and then John

DiFilippo. We did wonders with Philip Rivers in San Diego. He's a very good football coach. And then John D. Philippa, who's a quarterback specialist and has been in the league for a long time. So those were the two situations that those two guys are put in. And you could see right away, Wens has a success. Golf has whatever he had last year, which I'm not. And then you go even further than that.

Historically bad accuracy last year. He had no chance to succeed, both with the guys around him and the people that were telling, that were in his ear. And then you go one step further and you look at what DAC had. Think about just what Dak Prescott stepped into. And I'm not trying to take away anything that Dak Prescott did last year. He was the most statistically successful rookie quarterback in NFL history. And that wasn't possible in large part because he walks into a situation with the best offensive line in football, Des Bryant. Cole Beasley was a really good receiver, a monstrous running game, and a coaching staff that knows what the hell they're

doing. So it's really tough. I think that Dak Prescott had a much better rookie season than Carson Wentz, but it really puts a kink in the evaluation process when you think about just the myriad differences in the situations they're in. Okay, with that in mind, we're going to start out with which teams help their quarterback the most this year. Which are the situations that improve the most from the end of last season to the beginning of now? That includes free agency and the draft. I think that, you know, When we talk about who won the offseason, it's kind of ridiculous, but it's the Patriots again. I mean, you think about all the players they added, and I wrote about this today in kind of the past catching arms race piece I did for the ringer. You have Brandon Cooks.

You have, you know, Dwayne Allen isn't a perfect player, but he's useful that helps Rob Bronkowski do what Rob Grancowski does well. You bring in Rex Burkhead, Mike Gillisly. If they added the most offensive pieces to what might have been the best offense in the league a year ago. So it's kind of crazy that the rich. get richer in a way that is almost unimaginable. The other one I had was Wence. I mean, just the eagles and what they added, they had no one to really throw to last year. And now they have Alshon Jeffrey. I know Tori Smith isn't Alshan Jeffrey, but he is useful. He can do something they didn't have a season ago. And the other one I had is Tennessee. I mean, I think that they really bulked up

on past catchers because they know they needed to. We talk a lot about teams to go all in in a situation. And obviously, the Titans are not going all in on winning the Super Bowl this year, but they identified exactly what needed to be done for Mariotta to become a top 10 NFL quarterback. And they went out and did that. And I think that's the most impressive thing about their offseason. They just said, you know, we could play the long game. We're going to instead going to get Eric Decker. We're going to, you know, bolster some of the bulk around Mariotta, make sure he's even more upright this year than he was last year. I was just really impressive with John Robinson did in that regard. Totally. I mean, they've done that two seasons in a row. They've said,

let's just take a wholesale approach to where our team is and fix those areas all it wants. Well, I mean, the offensive line and the receivers this year. It's interesting because the hiring of Malarkey was that. I think a lot of people don't realize they thought maybe Malarkey was to save money. You know, there was a weird theory that Malarkey was to save money so then they could sell the team

and, you know, they wouldn't have to pay a big coaching salary on the books or whatever. That's not real. What was real was Malarkey basically sold the ownership on, I'm going to protect Marcus Marius. Because the protection schemes under Wizz and Hunt, I like Ken Wizzin'Hun a lot, the protection schemes were a joke and the personnel were a joke. And so now you have a situation where Malarkey is basically not only has the talent, but he has the game plan of whatever we do, we don't care about anything else except keeping him upright. We sack 38 times in 12 games as a rookie.

You got pounded. And that's exactly what they said. We're going to insulate him. And that was the first step. And now the second step is let's propel him forward. I don't know if that offense is necessarily built to do that. We'll get into that a little later when we talk about the best supporting cast in our minds. But I do think the personnel is much closer than it was a year ago.

I still, and look, John Robinson is a hell of a lot smarter than I am. I still get a little hesitant about the Corey Davis thing. I feel like you get it done a lot more with that pick at five. Yeah. I mean, Mike Williams is somebody that I feel like it was connected to them a little bit more just because of what they like to do with the ball. You know, they go down the field so much. Williams does that well. And again, we'll get into that a little bit more.

But Mario Deuter didn't have a single guy on that team last year that helped him. Richard Matthews is fine. Tosier-Sharp for a fifth round pick was fine. But they didn't have anybody that actively made bad throws good. And I think that's what they are hoping Corey Davis and Eric Decker can be. I mean, they're so much better than the guys he played with a year ago. Hell yeah. That's not hard.

No. But sometimes that's what matters, man. And it's the same thing with our offensive line. You know, Ben Jones isn't somebody that is going to make headlines. But when you can go from a bottom of the barrel center to a top eight center, sometimes that's even more important than getting one of the best guys in the league. And I feel like that's what we're going to get from them this year in their receiving court. What's amazing to me is that everyone that I talked to in the NFL after Carson Wentz's rookie season said,

do not judge anything that happened when he started a slump because of how bad his receivers were. And that's very rare. It's very rare because the NFL is such a no excuses league. And if you ask a talent evaluator about this guy, this guy, this guy, they'll always sort of try to evaluate him in a vacuum. Everyone I talked to said, once his receivers were so bad last year, he had no one to throw to,

that you really sort of have to throw it out the window. All right, who are your couple teams? Okay. Number one, I think this goes without saying it's probably, with the exception of New England, the most obvious one's Tampa Bay. I mean, O.J. Howard and Deshawn Jackson, And the offensive line is still not a lead.

I think the pro football focus. That's my problem. Yeah, pro football focus had them at 23rd in the league last year. They didn't do a whole lot to get better. The problem with them is that they were locked into those guys. Yeah. Yeah, that's the issue is that it's hard to make changes on your offensive line. And when your offensive line is bad, it's hard to make changes when you've already made the changes, right?

They used two second round picks on linemen. Jarosweezy didn't play last year, but they spent a decent amount of money on him. So it's just all these guys that they've invested in. but wish we're better. Ali Marpitz's pretty good. He's a good player. He's a good player. Yes. He's been very surprising.

But let's take, this is only about improvement. And if you take last year's team and you add O.J. Howard and Deshawn Jackson to it. And you already had Mike Evans there. And Cameron Brate, by the way, who's pretty good. Pretty damn good. And then you'll do a lot of stuff with those guys. And he's, you know, I know everyone's got the sort of Ryan Fitzpatrick thing, which is everyone just talks about who went to Harvard.

He's a really good tight end. end. I just think that if James Winston, and it's the same thing with Marriota, if James Winston is destined to be a top five quarterback, we're going to see it this year. I like the Deshaun Jackson move more than just about any other move this off season. One, because Deshaun Jackson is really good player. Two, he's just the type of guy that can unlock an entire offense. It's a key because one, he takes the top off and that allows you to work underneath in a way that you couldn't last year.

I feel like that area of the field was pretty cluttered just because they didn't have any speed element. And then you also have him as somebody that helps coverages get identified very quickly, which James sometimes has trouble doing. But when you're going to have so much too high with Dejaun on the field, it allows you to open up your offense in a way you couldn't last season. You know, when I talked to Julio last year about what was different, in large part it was what Taylor Gabriel gave them in Atlanta. Just because you have that element, you know what the coverage is,

you know you're not going to have, you know, you're going to have a guy over the top, you can just chew up stuff underneath. And I think that's what they need. And it also was going to stop him from just force feeding Mike Evans. It led the league last year at 173 targets. Efficiency when you're doing that is going to be hard to come by. So I just feel like overall he is the best chance right now that he's ever had. I will say I'm a little worried about the run game.

I just don't know what Doug Martin has left him. And there was a lot of talk that Doug Martin might not be back this year. But obviously, you know, he hasn't changed their. tune about that though, haven't they? In March, it seemed, I was at a Dirk Cutter press conference in March, and he was extremely evasive about Doug Martin. And so was Jason Light. It's the sort of tone someone takes like eight minutes where they cut a guy, right? And I guess Martin came in great shape and he looks good, but I'm still a little hesitant about that. I like Charles Sims too, though. I think he's a really underrated player. I don't know if you want him to be the basis

of your running game, but as a pass catcher, he's pretty soft. Yeah, he's a past catcher. He's fine. He had 149 rushing yards last year. That's not good. He also got hurt. Yeah, I know. All right. So listen, but anyway, we're just talking about the weapons on the outside. And I think Tampa Bay helped themselves a lot.

And I think there'll be some improvement there. Next team for me is Carolina. Christian McCaffrey. You know, I got- Just really Christian McCaffrey. I know, no, no, no. I mean, you got Curtis, Samuel. As well.

Yeah. I mean, I really feel, I know you hate the Matt Kalil deal. but he's Do you like the Matt Collier deal? No, I don't like the Matt Clil deal But I mean, he's not I don't know I mean, I just think having veterans

At the offensive line is better than having, you know, random people off the street. Now, let's just talk about Yeah, and I hear that. As a point that I will contend. That's not part of the improvement argument here. It's literally just McCaffrey and Samuel

because, and by the way, they drafted a right tackle in the second round, Taylor Morton as well. Yeah, Taylor, Tom, Motown might play. I mean, he's a guy that Williams is there from, he's the fourth round pick in 15. You know, he's not a guy that the bar is not high for Moton to get on the field. I guess is what you'd say.

Okay. So McCaffrey and Samuel, to a lesser extent, let's focus on McCaffrey here. He allows the Panthers to unlock so much of what they want to do as far as starting in the backfield and splitting out wide, playing in the slot. I mean, this is everything. The Panthers are all about positional flexibility. And I think the ability to have guys, you know, they want guys in the backfield sometimes and they want to spread it out sometimes. And Cam Newton is still a really good quarterback. And his wide receivers are extremely bad.

And so I think that you add a guy like McCaffrey who not only can catch the ball but can do everything and do the creative formations that Mike Shula wants to do, I'm on board with that. I'm just curious to see how it's going to look, right? Because we have no idea. We've never seen this before. They threw 13% of their passes to running backs last year. That is the second lowest mark in the league. Only Green Bay was less, which I guess makes sense. I can't even remember ever seeing them throw a ball to a running back, which is weird,

considering their running back is a wide receiver. Yeah. But it's still, there's second lowest in the league, 31%. Cam ranked 33rd out of 33 qualified quarterbacks in passes that traveled one to five yards past the line of scrimmage, which is from Key and Faye's quarterback catalog, which I talk about a lot because it's very good. They don't do that. So we've never seen them do that.

So in theory, it's really good. I just don't know. I literally can't imagine what that offense is going to look like with a healthy dose of Christian McCaffrey. It's so far away from what we've seen from them over the last couple of years. I talked to McCaffrey's college offensive coordinator right before the draft. And we didn't know who's going to Carolina. Obviously, he was mocked there quite a bit. But the coordinator basically told me that if he goes to Carolina is.

not only the best fit for him, but the difference between the best fit for him and the second best fit for him is about 50 miles. Okay? And so I just think that they're going to be able to do. They are the team that can unlock all of this. And they're going to, by the way, they have so few options because their outside targets

are certainly not what they thought they were going to be when they drafted them. I feel like they're going to be, say, screw it, we're going to build a game plan around Christian McCaffrey. All right. Who's your last team? How about the Chargers? I mean, this is just a small improvement.

This is a small improvement. Because, again, it's not like any team went out. And this isn't basketball. You can't just retool and all of a sudden you have Paul George, right? Mike Williams in the first round, Forrest Lamp in the second round. Two huge needs. Number one is wide receiver.

And by the way, they're going to get Keenan Allen back, which is improvement. Also, Dan Feeney's going to play. They'll have two new guards, which they desperately needed because their guard play last year was horrendous. So they have two new guards. you, Mike Williams, you add that to the receiving core that already has a decent amount of bodies in it. I mean, I feel like they could get better in a hurry. And it's now it's a question of is that defense for real? Yeah.

Is the defense we saw last year? I think they finished ninth in DVOA. Is that a flash in the pan or is that young group of guys ready to kind of step up and be one of the more consistent groups? I like a man. I like those guys. I think it is. I will say this. If they didn't have the weirdness and moving into an MLS stadium, I would be all in on them.

The two things that are preventing me from being completely all in the Los Angeles Chargers, number one is the fact they play in an MLS stadium, and number two is the fact they play in an incredibly good division. Yeah, and those are both very reasonable points, but I like a lot of the talent that they have. Personnel-wise, I think they're in a really good spot. Before we go on, I just wanted to tell you out our newest podcast on the ringer network called House of Carbs. The one-only Joe House finally got the food podcast he deserves.

This week, he talked to Bill Simmons about his passion for hot dogs, the best way to conquer food in Las Vegas and much more. You can subscribe to House of Carbs on Apple Podcast, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's time now to bring in our friend Danny Kelly of the ringer. Danny, how are you? Yeah. What's up guys? I'm doing great. How are you guys? Danny, you sent me a LinkedIn connection last week. I know. I'm trying to keep up with all the various social media out there. We talk all the time. We work together for a year. We are aware of each other professionally. What was going through your mind when he sent me a LinkedIn profile? I mean, literally, look at LinkedIn once a year.

Yeah. So I was just, you know, going through a, hey, I know that person. You were all in. I didn't want to be too eager, so I waited a while, you know, kind of just playing a cool. All right, Danny, you're here importantly to tell us about your under the radar improvement moves. Things we're not really thinking about. Give us your top three. Okay, so I don't really know exactly how under the radar this is, but I thought the Brandon Marshall move for the Giants is going to be really good.

It's under the radar because we haven't talked about it. I actually don't think a lot of people think about it. Why do you think that, though? Yeah, I mean, it's not something that I think people are, you know, talking about a lot this offseason. Basically, you know, he had a down year last year. He had probably his worst year in, you know, the last five or six years. So he's kind of falling off the radar.

But, I mean, this is one of the best touchdown makers in the NFL over the last, you know, decade or whatever. Like he's two, he's a year removed from a 14 touchdown season with Ryan Fitzpatrick at quarterback. So I just think, you know, with teams really tilting their defense towards Beckham, he's just going to be kind of, he's a second option for them, but he's going to be so, so good in the red zone. And I think that makes them have the potential to be a lot better on offense.

Now, you know, their defense is still supposed to be really, really good. And so I think that's going to be sort of the identity for the Giants. But if their offense can get better, you know, just a little bit better, you know, they won 11 games last year. I don't know how much better they can be, but I looked it up. They were 17th and touchdowns per red zone trip last year. And, you know, if they can get into the top 10, I think that equals, you know, one or two more wins.

And so I think he's just going to be really, really important for that offense. It was kind of a one-trick show with basically throw the ball at the backroom and hope he scores a touchdown type thing. And having him in that offense this year is going to be huge. Evan Ingram as well. Mays, what do you think about the Giants prospects this year? We already talked to, I talked about a little bit in regards to the bucks, just the idea of making a superstar receiver better by giving him help,

not throwing him the ball more as a way to really boost his play. I think that's what we're going to see. I mean, just having some of the attention get taken away from Beckham. And it's also one of those things with the Giants where Eli needs it. He needs to be propped up a little bit right now. He's not a guy that can just cruise no matter what you put around him anymore. Not that he ever was.

Any more? But now it's even more of a situation where you really need to help him out. and bolster his play. And Marshall's the type of guy that can do that. Where would you guys guess Brandon Marshall's cap hit is among wide receivers? I'm going to guess like 63rd. It is 39th wedged between noted superstars, Cole Beasley and Jermaine Curse.

$4.46 million. It's pretty damn good. I was so mad. How did he, God, how did they get him for that cheap? He didn't want to leave New York. He loves being on TV. Damn. Yeah, I just think he's going to have a big year.

And I think it's actually, you said it's going to be really good for Beckham, too. I think it's also going to be really good for Shepherd. That's a really good point. He's a really talented player. He can move all around the formation now. I think, you know, all three of those guys can basically play all three positions on the field. It's interesting, you said that he could move all around the field in positions, or they could just run 11 personnel and throw it to Beckham on a slant on every play.

That seems like the more logical or the more probable case. I think that's what we're going to see. All right, Danny, who's your next guy? So going in a different direction Obviously this guy's not nearly as big of a name But I went with Ted Ginn for the Saints And this one might be the one that you guys are laughing about But really? Is that your guess?

You just framed it as we're going in a different direction And then he just said Ted Ginn That direction is directly down Ted Ginn, Danny, talk to me Okay, so first of all, Bree is one of the best Deep Ball Passers in the NFL in his career I mean, he's amazing with passes over 20 yards in the air I looked it up.

PFF's Nathan Yonke, 106 rating for Breeze on passes 20 yards and more in the air since 2013. You know, Ginn's a little bit of a one-trick pony. Obviously, he's a speed guy, but he's good at that. I mean, he's got it. He's had his fair share of drops over his career and all that. He's got two tricks. One is speed, the second is dropping the ball. But I don't know.

I mean, hey, look, I'm not saying he's going to be cooks in that offense or whatever. And he's going to be the number three option. but I think that that free agent you know to go out and get him to replace cooks I think he's I think that was a really smart move and and you wrote me you know Maze you wrote like under the radar and so this was my real under the radar move I think you know I don't think he's going to be a superstar or anything like that but we agree we endorse your view that he's not going to be a superstar I don't necessarily yeah I'm on board with that but I understand because it's a low cost way to maintain an element of your offense right as long as you have that. guy to stretch the defense and you're not paying him anything. They have to, I mean, they have to cut costs somewhere. They're the Saints. So if you're going to do it, pay this guy nothing and still maintain your offense somewhat. The integrity is there to a certain degree.

He's not Brandon Cook's by any stretch, but you still need that element. Yeah. I was looking at up. Lance Moore had over a thousand yards in this offense in 2014. And I mean, he didn't do anything. I figured it might be more than that. I think, I mean, I think he had it over a. thousand a couple years before that too but I mean essentially he was you know he was I think that's what

Ginn's you know I think Ginn could go over a thousand yards if he stays healthy you know you heard it here first hey Danny do you know do you know like 800 last year do you know in a terrible passing offense do you know during cam Newton's breakout season in 2015 when the panthers were for large stretches of the season the best team in the NFL do you know what Ted Ginn's catch rate was was it under 50. It was 45%. He dropped a horrifying amount of balls that season. It was amazing. He was targeted 97 times and he caught the ball 44 times. Yeah, but were those all drops? Because Newton's always had a terrible. But I'm just saying, you look at, there are guys now who have

catch rates in the 70s. Well, that's also, it's a product of the offense in part. They really chuck it down the field. It's also a product of Ted Ginn having stone hands. But there are a lot of factors involved here. This is the perfect example of when the tape marries with the statistics. Sticks. Dude, Ginn had 10 touchdowns two years ago. Yeah, and he should. You probably dropped like 11 touchdowns in the end zone. All right, we'll see.

We'll see. Hey, real quick, you know, you're talking about the Saints, and obviously they don't have a great cap situation. I think they're 23rd in caps based in the league. And if training camp started today, they obviously calculate the salary cap differently, but all of their players put them $11 million over the cap. Obviously, that changes once cuts are made. It's amazing to me that the cap rises $10 million a year, and that basically no one has cap problems anymore, but the Saints just found away.

The Saints are so bad at this that they've had to come up with new ways to get around it. The fact that Drew Breeze's contract voids after this year, and they did the same thing with Fairly, no one else is doing this because no one else has to. It's not just getting another credit card when you max yours out. Saints are like your friend who complains about financial problems and through later you see them and they've got, they turned in their Audi early, do you get a BMW?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, leasing a car, they're just way beyond their pay grade. Yeah. The Drew Breaz is that car. They have a third bedroom for no reason.

All right, Danny, who's your third guy? All right, so my third guy is Martellus Bennett with the Packers. I think, I mean, you said it before.

It's like, you forgot about it. I think you were blocking it out of your memory, but. Yeah, it's all about repressed, repressed things that have happened to me. I think it,

I mean, I think it's flying under the radar how good he could be in that offense. I'm just picturing the Packers' offense with Ty Montgomery, Randall, Cobb, Martellus Bennett, you know, whoever else, obviously, Jordy Nelson out there on the field, they can run, you know, they can do anything with that personnel grouping. I mean, they could run the ball. Obviously, Montgomery used to be a receiver so he could, you know, flex out and, you know, run for pass routes or whatever. Cobb can run the ball.

Bennett's really, really good at blocking and receiving. so he kind of gives him that balance of the tight end position. I think it's just going to be crazy. Imagine Rogers running the hurry up, no huddle in that offense with Bennett out there. And I think that's going to be really good. The 2011 Packers is one of the best offenses I've ever seen. And in that offense, you had your Michael Finley catch 55 balls for 767 and 8 touchdowns. And they have never, spare me, Jared Cook.

They haven't had a guy even close to that since he left. Bennett is by far the best tight end option they've had. Maybe since Rogers was there. I don't know. He might be the best guy they've ever had. I mean, yeah, I think he could make the argument. He's better than Jermichael Finley. And so, like, you know, you're talking about Cook just now.

The numbers with Cook in the lineup last year versus with him out of the lineup were pretty staggering. It's crazy because I think Rogers really enjoys having that Titan out there. I think that's just a big, you know, sort of a security blanket for him. With Cook in the lineup last year, this is from Chris Wesleying at NFL.com. Second Chris Wesleyan reference on this. Pod. Big day for Chris Wesley.

He's everywhere. He is everywhere. They were 8 and 2 with him in the lineup, 28 points per game. Rogers had a 25 to 1 touchdown to interception ratio and 114 pass rating with Cook out of the lineup. They were 2 and 4, 24.7 points per game, and Rogers was 15 to 6 touchdown to interception radio in a 92 rating.

So he clearly with a quality, you know, kind of stretched the seam type of tight end in there, Rogers really, really is kind of. to just, that's just like his specialty. So, I mean, if you go back to, like you said, the 2011 year with Finley, I think that's just, I think that's going to be huge for them. And I do agree, I think he's probably the best titan they've had, you know, in sort of the Rogers era. And this isn't something up, you know, it's not necessarily linked to quarterbacks,

but it is a little bit. Them losing TJ Lang and them having some shuffling on that line like they haven't in recent years, Martel has Benekin block. He's a monster run blocker, and they could use the help there. I mean, I think that if they want their running, you'd be. as good, they're going to need him to be a part of that. Totally. And they had like zero run game for about half the year last year.

Montgomery kind of emerged later on, and he looks like a legit sort of starter and everything like that. But I mean, I think they really want to be more balanced. And I think that's a big part of this, you know, the reason they targeted him over Cook. Because obviously, I think they kind of had a good thing going with Cook. But obviously, Bennett, I think gives him a whole new dimension just because he can block. Hey, as if from a career perspective, would you, if you're Thai Montgomery,

would you rather be a good running back or a mediocre receiver? Oh, that's a good question. I'd rather be a mediocre receiver. I mean, play for so much longer. But, right. It doesn't look like it's happening that way. He's going to be the only running back with number 88, though. That's for sure.

I can't believe they let him keep that. That is some bullshit. I kind of like it. All right, Danny, thank you. You're welcome. Thanks guys for having me on. Get back to LinkedIn. God.

you. All right. I love you, buddy. Thanks, Danny. All right, Kevin. Now, let's dig into our best supporting cast. So before we kind of look back at what happened this offseason, this is more of a wide ranging kind of view of things.

What's gone over the last few years. So it's going to be the situations quarterbacks have now, but we're taking more than that into account. Like which teams you forgot? Yeah, like which teams I forgot. That's also fair. All right. We'll get to that.

All right. Just give me your five. All right, all right. New England, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Dallas, Atlanta. New England being number one. I feel like New England and Pittsburgh are clearly one and two. And we'll dig into Y in a little bit, but those are my two as well. After that, in kind of no apparent order, I had the Saints, the Cowboys, the Dolphins. I forgot the Raiders.

They probably should be on this list. But I wanted to talk about the dolphins a little bit. So why don't we talk about Atlanta, first of all? because they would have been on here for me last year, but I feel like the Kyle Shanahan factor is what kept them off, just because I want to see how sustainable that offense is without him, even though they have pretty much the same personnel coming back. So over the cap did a really interesting thing two weeks ago.

I don't know if you saw it, just about the percentage of snaps that are returning this year and not losing both overall and quality. And the Falcons, I think, lost, the fifth least or the fourth least quality snaps and overall snaps. There is continuity there that I think is really important. Which starter did they lose? Don't they have everybody?

I mean, it could be as much as a second tight end. I mean, four, it was like four percent. Tammy's probably the only guy that's not there. Yeah. And he could have been four percent of the snaps. Yeah. They brought back everybody. Yeah.

But, okay. Oh, Chris Chester. I'm sorry. He's the only guy. Okay. So I'm shorting Chris Chester's. Your point stands. I was just curious.

I wanted to take a look at it. But yeah, your point stands. It's on the internet. You should check it out. I got it. All right. So I think that, you know, Pittsburgh is also very good as far as this continuity.

It's according to over the cap. So you have Matt Ryan, you have Julio Jones. That's really all you need. But then you have the great supporting cast that Dimitrov is set up. You have, I mean, I think Sark's going to be okay, dude.

I think he could. And both those running backs are really good. I think he absolutely. Alex Mack is good. I mean, I just don't, I'm actually wondering, and I also trust Tom Dimitrov to make, even make some, if things aren't clicking in training camp, we know, where Sark wants to, to move some pieces around. I think Dimitrov's going to, you know, make some moves. So, but I, I am surprised that Atlanta's not in your top five. It really is just, we're talking about continuity. And that's a huge part of this conversation. And that's why Pittsburgh and New England and everybody else is as secure at the top as they are. I think changing offensive. coordinators worries me. It doesn't mean, whatever the downgrade from Shanahan is, and there will be one, that isn't as worrisome to me as a guy getting used to somebody else in his ear, a guy getting used to how a game is called. Those things change, and they usually take at least a couple seasons

to get right, even if the guy's doing a good job. I mean, think about the first year with Shanahan. That didn't go that well. There were growing pains there that were clear. I mean, Matt Ryan struggled with some of those elements. And I think that no matter what, no matter who it is, that is going to be something that has some bumps. And that's why they don't make it for me. Yeah, I think that that's slightly overrated. I mean, I think that they communicate, unless the only way that's going to matter is if the

guys are legitimately bad. I don't think that's true at all. Okay. You think that hearing a different voice in the headset is actually going to make them take a step back. 100%. It's not, it's not that it's jarring. it's the page that they're on. It takes a while to develop that level of trust and comfort with someone.

Okay. It's not like Oakland where Todd Downing is his quarterback's coach. They're used to how they see the offense. They talked about it for years. This is a guy he's never had before coming in. I think that matters, yes. Okay. I just don't agree.

I mean, look at, you know, this is obviously very different, but I mean, look at Seattle in their defense and the fact they have a new guy every single year. That's different with Pete Carroll, though. That's different. It's a, there's been a quarterback. there's no central elements of your defense. A quarterback and an offensive coordinator is much different than whoever the defensive play caller is.

I am in full support of Matt Ryan overcoming this, this new voice. I think he'll be fine. Again, I don't think Matt Ryan is a bad quarterback. I just think you're underrating this. I think that Atlanta and all the things they have going forward are significantly better, is a significantly better atmosphere to be a quarterback than Miami. I don't think that's true necessarily right now.

I feel like Miami's offensive. So that's another different. we had in our OS. I love Gase and what he does. I love gays too. And I think that that, those past catchers there and Adam Gase is a place I'd want to be a quarterback. It absolutely is. Devante Parker, Jarvis Landry, Kenny Stills. I don't, Julius Thomas isn't that great, but he's pretty good. And the running game that they have, I just feel like that is a spot where you could succeed as a quarterback. And I think that they have the continuity there right now that Atlanta does not. Okay. That's all I'm saying. Okay. I disagree. I think now I'm not

disagreeing with your notion that Miami is a good place to be a quarterback. I love Adam Gase. I love all that talent. I love, I mean, obviously a lot of people talk about Jarvis Landry being sort of, quote unquote, a volume shooter. I think there's part of that, but I do think they're all really talented on that offense. But I just think that there are so many things going for Atlanta. I mean, they have a great running game. They have, you know, four or five really good receivers and obviously have a top three receiver in the game, and they have a good offensive line. And they have the continuity. I think that that's a better atmosphere. I agree to disagree. I just think that the Jarvis Landry thing is interesting to me.

I feel like Jarvis Landry's style play has put him in the conversation. I love watching him. But this idea that Jarvis Landry is like a top 10 receiver is bonkers. He's not. I think the only people who would say that would just be looking at the sort of catch statistics. Yeah, exactly. He fell off as the year went along. This idea that Jarvis Landry, I heard something about the franchise tag and Jarvis Landry recently, that would be insane. That would just be a complete misuse of resources. And that comes from a guy who really likes Jarvis Landry. I love Jarvis Landry.

You have to be a certain type of receiver to warrant that treatment. But what I'm saying, I think in that offense. Anyone who does like 10 minutes of research would see that he's not a top 10 receiver. Yes. In that offense, he's a very useful piece because he's able to do what he does well because they have. have those guys on the outside that do other things. Yep. I agree. All right. Number four, we both have Dallas.

Yeah. I mean, it's, I think you've got to put it on there. Yeah. I mean, it makes all the sense to the world. I mean, I think that, I don't know, last year, I, first of all, the offensive line departures, you know, Doug Free was not particularly good, but he was, you know, a contributor. And then you obviously had Ron O'Leary. That's a continuity thing, too, though. That's a continuity thing. Having those guys that are similar next to you matters. But that's why the point I'm making is that's why I didn't even, I sort of had to think about my top three.

Okay, New England, Pittsburgh, Oakland. And that was the conversation in my mind. Dallas maybe last year I would have had them in that conversation and had said, okay, what are we doing with the top four here? For me, Dallas is a clear number four just because of the continuity issues. They lost a lot of snaps. And a lot of that's defense. But on that over the cap thing, Dallas, I think was number one in snaps. lost. So, I mean, there are some continuity issues there. The coaching is not nearly as good as some

of these other places. I mean, Jason Garrett's fine, but he's not, I mean, he's not Belichick, and he's not Todd Haley. No, absolutely not. I think that Scott Linahan has done an underrated job there. I feel like what he did to kind of help DAC become comfortable early in the season, similar to what Shanahan did with RG3 a little bit, you know, just implementing elements of their college offense to really make them comfortable from the get-go. I think that's underrated. I think that level of flexibility and malleability is something that should be valued. But no, I mean, they're not anything close to the coaching staffs in those other places.

Yep. We also, Des Bryant is pretty good. He's probably worth throwing out there. Ezekiel Elliott is also pretty good. The skill position players on that team are okay. I didn't name them because I felt like it went without saying. I mean, in Dallas, everyone knows what Dallas is. Yes, exactly.

That's totally fair. All right, number three for me is Oakland. Yeah, I just forgot. You just forgot about Oakland. I was just trying to talk about some other teams. We know the Raiders have a very good supporting cast. So. I put New Orleans.

Yeah. Okay. And I think this is about, we've said continuity so many times, but this is about Sean Peyton and putting a quarterback in a good position. Okay. And I know it's a chicken or the egg thing in a way because it's so hard to separate Drew Brees from Peyton and why they've been successful. But I just think that Sean Payton is an excellent offensive football coach.

I think being a quarterback in that offense is made easier because of his presence and just the way he calls the game and everything else. I also think, I know now he's hurt, but that offensive line in New Orleans is really freaking good. So I feel like that combined with just the overall system that they run, it's just quarterback friendly. I know that Drew Breeze is really good and it's, again, hard to separate those things. I just think that a lot of guys could be average or better in that offensive. no matter who it was. Yeah, I mean, I understand there's certainly situational things. Pete Carmichael Jr. has been there for years.

Sean Payton is great. Is Tehran Armstead going to be healthy for the season? It's a great question. I mean, that's something that, I guess this is more in a perfect scenario, the way they've built the team. It's really good. I think that line went healthy is excellent. Yeah.

But, yeah, he's out for a while. I mean, that's a problem. And his health has been a problem for some time now. I also think that even though the guys have changed there over time, they still have decent receivers. You know, Michael Thomas is good and finding him in the second round last year, Matt or you got Ted Ginn. The answer number one. Danny Kelly's going to call back in. Start talking about Ted Ginn again.

All right. Let's keep going. The Raiders, pretty self-explanatory, one of the best offensive lines in football. I thought it was interesting. I saw a statistic from Pro football focus the other day. lowest percentage of batted passes when you're throwing, okay? Derek Carr had the fewest,

Dak Prescott had the second fewest, and Ben Rathesberger had the third fewest. I mean, that sort of shows, obviously batted passes. There's a lot of factors there, including trajectory and not throwing it into a defensive lineman. Derek Carr had 0.5% of his throws last year batted down. Clean pockets, baby.

I mean, there's a reason all three of those teams are in my top four. I mean, that's a great stat. Okay. Anyway. It's, yeah, you don't think about that, but that's indicative of other things. I mean, especially with the Raiders. I mean, they're just, their past protection is so good. They also do a lot to help car out.

They get him on the move. They move the pocket a little bit. That entire offense is built around having people not around his feet. Yep. Because that's where he struggles. And they should be commended for that. That's why they should be on this list because they've done an excellent job of just formatting that team around him. They also should be on this list because I remember to put.

on the list. Yeah, that's true. That's another good reason. And obviously, like, the skill position players, I mean, Amaria Cooper and Michael Crabtree. Totally. Really good. I mean, I think the running game can be good this year. Obviously, you lose Latavius Marit in Minnesota, but I think that they, I mean, Todd Downing, it's what you said. He was the quarterback's coach. It wasn't like they lost Bill Musgrave to a head coaching job. They just wanted to get Downing in there because of their relationship that he has with Carr. And so I just, I think that will be pretty seamless as far as as the coordinator transition goes. I agree.

I'm not worried about that nearly as much. His voice. His voice. Carr's not going to know what to do. But he's heard Todd Downing's voice for a very long time. He doesn't know. Who is that? That's what I'm talking about.

I'm not taking this play. I don't even know who you are. Oh, God. All right. So, yeah, I mean, Oakland, self-explanatory. All right. Two and one. You start.

I mean, Pittsburgh is, how do you argue with Pittsburgh? I mean, for 10 different reasons. Antonio Brown, reason one. I mean, like, that helps. Levy on Bell reason two. Levy on Bell reason two. Martavis Brian is playing this year. Todd Haley has been there for six years.

Their offensive line has played together since the dawn of time, and they're all very good players. There's nothing that you can poke holes in about why are we good to play quarterback in this place. And Pittsburgh, I think, is the first team where we want to talk about just the overall organizational security, the stability. going there, it just seems like a good place to play football.

You know what you're getting there every single day. And I think that matters. As we start to kind of nitpick and the little details matter at the top of lists like this, that's why they're elevated above teams that have very good personnel on the field, but they have just this entire overall structure that you really feel good about. The amazing thing, and obviously, like we said, Brown and Bell are reason one a hit and one be essentially that their skill position guys are the best in the league or among them. But their offensive line got better as the season goes along. Do you know how hard that is?

I mean, after week five, they were the best offensive line in football, according to pro football focus. I love that group, man. It's hard. I think they're really good. It's hard to get better as the season goes along. No one, we get so much worse as the season goes along. You and I, by week 13, we have no idea what we're talking about. I'm just done. Danny brought in Ted Ginn in preseason, so he's obviously starting at a lower point than we are. But, um, we're, but, um, we're in, No, so it was just their ability, the coaching staff, Todd Haley is good. I mean, it's, it's a great, it's exactly what you said, a great place to play football. The two guys, I feel like are overlooked anytime we talk about offensive linemen in the league are Ramon Foster and Marcus Gilbert.

Like, nobody's going to get excited about those two dudes. They're just really good football players. And that just seems to be what the rate or the Steelers have all over the offense. Yeah. Well, the other thing, you know, about the Steelers is just organizational. Because you've heard so many stories about Ben Rothesberger as a rookie. He wasn't that good. He didn't have the practice habits he has now.

He, by all rights, should not have been the quarterback of a 15 and one team because of, you know, a lot of factors. And yet he had Placco Burris to just chuck it down the field to. And I've heard Bill Cowher talk about that. Now I think Bruce Ariens in his book talked about that a little bit. I mean, he was put in maybe the best position to succeed that we've seen as a rookie. quarterback except for maybe Dak Prescott last year. Yeah.

I feel like talking about the voice and you're making fun, but the six years with Haley, that shit matters. The level of implicit comfort and trust they have and him just willing. Nobody threw the ball more often, more than 20 yards down the field last year than Ben Rathusberger,

because they're just willing to let it rip because they are just completely at ease in what that offense is and what they want to get from it. That matters. He's also a really good coordinator. Yeah, he is. I mean, he's a very good office of coordinator. All right.

What is there to say about the Patriots outside of what we've said 100 times? Everything that we talked about in the last 10 minutes except better. I like that every single pod. We just get to the last five minutes and we just can't say anything more about the Patriots because they're number one on every list. It's tough, man. I mean, we're in year 15 of this. It's hard to come up with new shit. I don't know what to say.

You say something. Belichick, Brandon Cooks, Rob Grunkowski when he's healthy, an offensive line that's good. Here's the thing I'll say about New England that we haven't really brought up yet. Okay, go ahead. This would not have been as much of a no-brainer two years ago because their offensive line now is no longer a weakness. It is a strength because of the development from some of their in-house guys. The fact that Shaq Mason and Marcus Cannon have become above-average NFL alignment, when you add them to the rest of that group.

Now there's just nothing to pull holes in. Every single bit of this offense is enviable, and that did not use to be the case. It's kind of ridiculous. Now, we're talking a lot about the talent. The Belichick Josh McDaniels thing, I mean, they find, this isn't about continuity.

I don't care about that. What I care about is their ability to find schemes that are innovative, and that, you know, their ability to get, hidden yardage or free yardage is unparalleled. Their ability to say, you know what, we can get eight yards with this and it's not a particularly flashy play, we're just going to do it.

They do it all the time. And I just, I am so impressed with their free yardage operation. And I mean, there's all sorts of debates about, you know, what would Tom Brady look like if, you know, he played in Denver or whatever. But like, Brady's the perfect quarterback for a perfect system. If you need any answers about what this team can do no matter who's playing quarterback, go watch the first four games of last year. I think Jimmy Garoppolo is a good player, but they burned the dolphins to the ground. This is a, there's no better way. They destroyed the Texans with Jacoby Brissette.

Yes. I mean, it's every single game, they put specific guys into positions to succeed, to succeed, every single game. Every single snap is with the idea of what does the other team do poorly and how can we take advantage of it. Yep. That's just not how most teams think. Tom Brady is the best quarterback in the NFL. And he also gets the best game plans in the NFL.

I don't know how he stopped that. He is not the best quarterback in the NFL. But okay. Aaron Rogers is the best quarterback in the NFL. Come on now. Let's do this. We did this last week, two weeks ago? Two weeks ago.

Yeah. And I basically said they were tied and that Aaron, what we did was, if you didn't listen in the episode, who would get the most valuable contract on the open market for one year? And I said Brady and Rogers were tied in my mind and that Rogers would get more because he's younger. I'm just not going to let you that go. That's all I'm saying. Before we get out of here, why don't we do a team or two

that maybe is overlooked in terms of not being a great place to play quarterback? Just a team that is not as cushy of a situation that people may think it is. I don't think we give enough heat to Seattle for what their offense has become. I mean, if you looked at even the playoff game, they played against Atlanta last year,

I mean, their offensive line is just a disaster. They're wide receivers. I mean, curse hasn't really taken a step anywhere near what they thought he was going to be able to do. Baldwin is still good. But, I mean, I think all credit goes to Russell Wilson right now because he's playing in a spot that is not exactly a quarterback's paradise. Yeah, 100%. I mean, there is problems with that offensive line. They're not going to be fixed this year.

I don't feel like that receiving core is full of superstars, man. I think they're fine. Doug Baldwin is a good player. Jimmy Graham is, I'm not sure. that might be a usage thing, but I definitely don't think that you just walk in there matter who you are and succeed. Russell Wilson has kind of built to be a good quarterback in that spot. Graham had over 900 yards.

He was fine, but he's certainly now a- Jimmy Graham is a good player, but he's not the monster he was a couple of years ago. Right. I mean, if this is 2011, Jimmy Graham, having a different conversation, but I just, I mean, it's, I, Russell Wilson, my respect for him grows every year. Yeah, 100%. I mean, last year, I feel like some of the stuff he was doing. was impossible.

I mean, something that no one else in the world could pull off. The two that I had, and I feel like this is really sneaky under the radar, not great, is Tampa and Arizona, and for a specific reason, it's not about personnel, and it's not about coaching either. I think that Bruce Ariens is an excellent quarterback's coach and has succeeded with a lot of different guys. I just think that those systems put so much strain on the quarterback. You're pushing the ball down the field so much.

It's just there isn't really any margin for error. And I think playing in those offenses is difficult at times. So I know that the players may be good. I think the players are good in both spots. I just think that you're playing on the head of a pin at all times. No matter what happens, if something goes wrong, it goes very, very wrong. Those guys can hit a lot. So those are ones that I just think that we should give more credit to how good those guys are when they're good.

I agree with that. I mean, I think Arizona got unlucky with some injuries on the offensive line last year. I just, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if anyone still thinks after last year that Arizona is a good place to play quarterback. It's just, it's a tough, there's so many things that went wrong in Arizona last year. And I think, you know, I was talking about this with the Cardinals fan yesterday. And I think the world thought the Cardinals were going to turn it around. Remember, every week we were saying, here come the Cardinals.

And I don't think Cardinals fans thought that when they looked at their team. It just wasn't equipped to make the run we thought they were going to make in the beginning of the season. What do you think about them this year? Do you think they can be a contender again? Do you think it's close enough? I mean, it just depends on if Palmer, honestly, I know it sounds simplistic, but if Palmer can get back to A-minus Palmer

and then you marry him with David Johnson and then you still have vintage fits. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you lose Clias Campbell, which I think is massive. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, he just does so much for that defense. I feel like Palmer was good down the stretch. I think if he can be that player all season.

Exactly. Exactly. They couldn't turn it around that fast. But if he can be that player this year and they can stay healthier, I do feel like they can be around. Hey, last thing I want to say, Pro Football Focus just tweeted out the most yards per route run in 2006. A little throwback Thursday here. Who do you think led the league in most yards per route run in 2006? Jeez. Andre Johnson?

Lee Evans. Jesus. Is there like a top five? It's Lee Evans, Chad Johnson, and DJ Hackney. It. What the hell? Don't let anyone ever tell you football was better than it is right now. DJ Hackett.

All right. On that note, as always, guys, thank you so much for listening. We will be back next week. And we'll talk to you soon. Thanks, guys.