The Ringer NFL Show - The Best and Worst Quarterback Situations in the League | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 270)

Episode Date: June 25, 2018

The Ringer's Kevin Clark and Robert Mays take a look at the depth charts throughout the NFL to identify the teams with the worst situations for a quarterback (04:00), as well as the best places to be under center (22:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, Robert Mays here. As always, we are brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where there are a ton of great shows for you. Binge mode Harry Potter is now in full swing. Subscribe now to hear Malia Rubin and Jason Concepcion. Dive deep on the first five chapters of Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. The recapables Westworld wrapped up this week with David Schumaker, Juliet Lippman, Micah Peters, and Danny Hyphitz, bringing down every theory about the final episode of season two. also go to the ringer.com to check out a ton of awesome stuff in the past week. Justin Barrier wrote about the 10 biggest questions as we headed into NBA Free Agency, starting with the looming LeBron James decision. Ryan O'Hanlon also recapped a wild few days at the World Cup.

Kevin, you watch the World Cup? It's been fun. Love the World Cup. I've been watching it every day. I've been watching it all the time. It's perfect. It's like it's odd when I wake up. It's just wonderful. Just right in the background, it's been a blast. Also, Alison Herman, Miles Surrey, and Roger Sherman wrote about the best TV of 2018.

so far. Please go check all that out and more at the ringer.com. All right, with that, let's get to the show. To the Ringar NFL show. I'm Kevin Clark, joined as always by Robert Mays.

Robert, dog days. I watched a Brett Hunley start on the NFL network last week. You're desperate, huh? You really scrounged in the bottom of the barrel for stuff. Not a lot going on. We got the World Cup.

But that ends out here at 1 p.m. And then we just got nothing. I'm just watching the NFL network. just watching some random Bengals Ravens game whenever it comes on. I honestly should be doing that instead of watching the Cubs. It was a disastrous weekend. I'm just glad that the soccer on the second TV was there to save me at every point. Who were you rooting for in the World Cup?

I don't want to say I'm rooting for them. I just, I've enjoyed, well, the team I'm rooting for is England. Just because I lived there for a while, I have a lot of English friends. They're very excited about this team. They've looked great so far. So England is the team I'd like to win, but I tweeted this the other day. again, I'm not a soccer person. I really like the sport, but I have no expertise or no real knowledge of it.

But I watched Belgium play twice. And I was like, that's just that team's the best team. Like, in my mind, that's just what I see when I watch them. So those are the two teams I'm keeping them. I'm paying the most attention to is what I would say. Belgium passes the Robert May's eye test. There it is. Wow.

I mean, that's all I got in terms of soccer is just like, I think that team is good. That's really all I have for you. I have no idea how the sport works. like why certain midfielders are better than others. It's just not something I've ever gotten into, but I watch Belgium. It's like, that team looks really freaking good.

Well, hopefully we know more about the sport we're talking about today than that bit of analysis from you, Robert, but it's something that- I certainly hope so. I would hope so. We can only go up from here.

So what we're doing today is something that fascinates us both, which is the best situations for a quarterback in 2018. It's not the best quarterbacks. It's the best infrastructure for a quarterback and the worst as well, and there's plenty of both. I think something's happening in the NFL that I find fascinating. I know you do too, Robert, where the sort of golden generation of quarterbacks who could solve any problem or aging out. Drew Breeze was always going to put up huge numbers no matter what situation.

Tom Brady was always going to win no matter what a supporting cast was. Those guys are now pushing 40, and we have a younger generation, maybe with a little less talent, And teams are throwing more resources at developing them because they aren't the, you know, legendary, sure fire hall famers. And we just came off a Super Bowl where Nick Fools, Nick freaking Folls won the Super Bowl. I think that says a lot about how you can manufacture a situation where you win games with a quarterback who's less talented, Robert. So we do an NFL meeting every year. We kind of just break down the ideas we're thinking about going into the off-season and everything else.

We do it in early June, usually, or late May. and it just seemed like even more than usual. So many of the conversations we were having in that meeting were about quarterbacks. Just because it's such a fascinating time for the position, even more so than it would be in any other year. It's the most important position in sports, but the amount of turnover that's happened at that spot, the influx of rookie quarterbacks right now. If you look at almost every team in the NFL, there are very few rosters or very few franchises that has a guy that's just, a lame duck joke. You either have an established really good quarterback, a guy that's gotten paid in a second contract, whether he deserved it or not, or a guy that has just come in in

the last couple years. So it's very odd. And I think that, again, you're right. As that kind of complete new generation has come into focus, now it's about understanding which teams are doing the best and worst jobs at allowing those guys to have a chance to succeed or fail. So it's a good time to kind of hit the reset button on both the supporting cast for that position and that position itself, which is for another podcast. But right now, I think, is the right moment just to figure out where are these guys going and why. Yeah, I mean, I think that a lot of it can be traced back to ownership and the fact that pretty much all 32 owners or 31 owners are engaged. And the first question that an owner asks always is what's up with the quarterback. And so you at least have to

have a plan. And I think that even if you don't have the most talented quarterback in the world, you're at least going to surround, you know, skill position guys or an offensive-minded head coach or a, you're going to throw money at an offensive coordinator. And there's only a couple of teams where the plan isn't totally obvious. So, Robert, let's start with our worst places to be in this is my favorite part. I mean, listen, it's not like, again, like you said, everyone's pretty much, they've got a next few years sketched out kind of thing, but for 2018, there are some rough places to be a quarterback. We have the same lead off team. Robert, start us out. I would not want to play quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. That's what I'll say right now. I mean, you look at

this group, just overall, everyone else in the offensive huddle. You have no receivers that are necessarily guys you'd want to lean on. Calvin Benjamin, they made that trade. I didn't understand. I understand at the time. I still don't understand it. You have Zay Jones, who, again, that's the biggest question mark you probably have at this point. What's he going to give you? Is he going to be on the roster? I mean, all that stuff. An offensive line that is full of just a hilarious combination of names. Like, I've seen the Jordan Mills experience up close and personal. It's not fun. Vlad Dukas is on this team. Russell Bodine, who is the worst member of a bad Cincinnati offensive line. It's a horrible situation.

Brian Daibald is the offensive coordinator there, which, I don't know, would you be excited about that? Is there any reasons to have enthusiasm about that? Brian Daibel obviously came from Alabama, but before that, he was at the Miami Dolphins, the definition of an uninspiring coordinator. He is a guy. Now, let's be clear. The college game has changed. You can't be the offensive coordinator at Alabama without at least some forward-thinking ideas. And in 2017, that used to not be the case with Sabin. I think he's grown.

I think that I'm sure Daibol has seen some elements of the college game he can now bring to the NFL game. But in Miami, when he was with the dolphins, didn't see a whole lot from him. There are two players on the bill's offense after they traded Cordy Glenn that I think are above average at the position that they play. And honestly, maybe not even one of them. Charles Clay is a good player. I think he's always been good.

He's overpaid. That contract is what it is. But he is a useful piece of an NFL offense. And then Lashon McCoy is Lisholmokoy. Outside of that, it's like, Andre Holmes. I'm sorry, did you name Andre Holmes?

I did not. Why is Andre Holmes on this team? It's unclear. Andre Holmes, who I played against in high school several times. He was not good. Marshall News, New House. Jeremy Curley.

Isn't, didn't Jeremy Curley? Is he suspended? Does I make that up? Does it matter? Does it matter? Does it matter? Does it matter? Does it matter?

The receivers on this team are Andre Holmes outside of Kelvin Benjamin Benjamin and Zay Jones. You have Andre Holmes, Jeremy Curley, Rod Streeter is on this team. It's just every dude who's had a weirdly inconvenient fantasy week for your opponent in week 13 is on this team. Logan Thomas is on this team. Is there anything else you need to say or we just concede this is a horrible situation. Look, they have a long-term building plan in Buffalo. So let's not, I don't want to indict anybody at this point. I will say that.

I kind of would because part of that long-term building plan is Josh Allen. At the 20, the 2018 roster, it looks like one of those just Madden Sims that just went off the rails. And all of a sudden, you've got Andre Holmes and Vlad Dukas. It's really bad. I mean, it's just dudes who we've heard their names for a decade and you've never been happy to hear their names. That's what the bill is. Traveras Cadet is on this team. That's exactly right.

Tversus Cadet is the Plotinus Cadet is literally the potonic ideal of what we're discussing right now. Monte Davis. I mean, this is a- The defense is fine. The defense, I'm just looking. It's just, it's, I guess, so on the Dan Lebitart show last week, they did an entire two-hour segment, just naming random 90s baseball guys. And that is sort of the modern NFL equivalent to bills here. We're just naming guys.

I mean, I just, Raphael Bush is on this team for some reason. Again, just 100% in this boat. Like, it's the exact type of player they just are, like, riddled with. It's funny as hell. wonderful. This is wonderful. I'm excited to watch the bills. Good luck. If you ever wondered where the guy who was on their rookie contract

and then faded away from your team is, they are in Buffalo, New York. That's exactly what Jordan Mills is for my team. It's so right. All right, who's number two? I just want to talk about the bills. Okay. We can do this for an hour, but we probably should get to the good teams eventually.

All right. So let's finish up the bad ones. The second one for me, we've talked about them all off season. I don't want to be a quarterback in Seattle, Washington. Yeah, they're on my list as well. There's a couple of things happening here. Number one, obviously they're retooling a little bit. The offensive line has been bad for a number of years.

I don't anticipate it getting much better. Their offensive coordinator is Brian Schottner. That's sigh. Just the resignation in your tone is something I love so much. They addressed running back with Rashad Penny in the first round, but who knows how much events to impact he'll have. looking at the depth jar right now, penciled in a starter

on our lads, Brandon Marshall. Yep. That ain't good. That ain't good. Here's, all right. I'm going to say something that I'm, I think I believe.

They are not necessarily as written in pen in this bottom three as they are for you. I think that it's crazy to say this because of the guys that we're going to be listing off. right now. But an offensive line of

Dwayne Brown, Ethan Poachich, Justin Britt, DJ Fluker, and Germana Fetty might be the best one they've had in like five years. Sure. I mean, that's not saying a whole lot. That's what I'm saying though. It's just I think that they have a chance to be better than they have been in the last couple seasons. It's the best Matt Millen draft pick.

That's a fair comparison. I just think that it's bad and in my opinion it has more to deal with the infrastructure in the coaching more like realm of things than it does with the roster. Sure. No, I'm saying, this is a perfect example. I know Pete Carroll wants

more conservative, but it's a perfect example of, okay, they don't have the talent around Russell Wilson, but they have Russell Wilson. So what do you do? You go out and you get a absolute quarterback guru to figure some stuff out, win on schemes, and let Russell Wilson be Russell Wilson. I think the world

of Russell Wilson, and I'm disappointed in the Schottenheimer hire because of that. I just, it never made sense in the moment to me. I don't understand what the thought is. it really does seem in my mind like we're getting toward the end here with this Seahawks regime, just in general. The idea that he would choose Brian Schottinheimer to be the offensive coordinator, in what world does that make sense or is that the right direction to go in?

Now, I want to say the game has passed B. Carroll by it because that's not correct. But it's just one of those things where like, man, is there decision making and is their thought process and overall approach really this state? Sure. That's the choice they're going to make? I don't think the game has passed him by. I think his philosophy has always been to be more conservative on the offensive side of the ball in Seattle and then win with defense. The problem is it's not a trend thing. It's more that he doesn't have the horses on defense to win on defense.

That's it. So you can't do that. I mean, we're going to get to the situations where the defenses are so good that it's a good situation, even though it may not be on the offensive side of the ball. But Seattle just doesn't have the personnel to play the way Pete Carroll wants to play. the last time Ryan Schottonheimer was an offensive coordinator in the NFL was 2014. Yeah. They scored 20 points a game

while just being the most forgettable average offense you could possibly imagine. Oh my God, the quarterback's on this team. Austin Davis, Sean Hill. I'm not saying that's why they were bad because I think they were bad independent of whoever the hell was playing quarterback. But there's just no reason in my mind to think that Brian Schottonheimer

deserved another shot to me in NFL offensive coordinator. No. I truly don't know what I would. read a good article with everybody being honest on how this happened. Do you want to move on? I'm being depressed. I do. You have another team in the same division hit us with it.

So mine is the Arizona Cardinals. And that's surprising to say because I think in recent years... It would have been far away from that. But now you have an offensive line that has DJ Humphreys at left tackle. You know, Justin Pugh, they signed in a free agency. I think he has a chance to be good. if he can stay healthy, but Andre Smith is the right tackle.

That line is not a good group. And then you have fits, obviously, in the second half of his career, I mean, maybe the last season of his career. You have unproven guys outside of that in the receiving core. Who knows what Christian Kirk will be?

I think he could be pretty good. But I think right now, there are more question marks than there are answers with those 11 players. And again, it's so crazy to say that a couple years removed from them having one of the more

complete roster in the entire league. I totally agree with you. I mean, look, they get the new coach in. There's going to be some retooling. I think it'll be, by the time Josh Rosen's ready to play, I think they'll be able to build some stuff up.

I'm giving the benefit of the Doward now to Steve Kahn to be able to build something in two or three years. I think he's a good general manager. I think he's a very good general manager. It just feels like such a transition year. I completely agree. Their offensive just philosophy and identity.

They got Andre Smith at right tackle. That's what I'm saying. I mean, and their line wasn't good last year because Jared Valdere had a bad season last year. He had fallen off considerably. They needed to retool that line, but I don't necessarily think the choices they've made are answers. It's odd because that team was so tied into who Bruce Ariens was. And now you go outside of that. You have a defensive-minded head coach.

Mike McCoy is a reasonable offensive coordinator. He's just a, again, he's just the kind of a guy. But it's such a far. such a departure from who they used to be and I think that this year you're going to see that kind of stuff you're going to see the cracks

I remember talking to Bruce and a couple people around the Cardinals when they were really good and one of the things that Bruce really liked was people who were like him and I don't mean personality-wise

I don't mean drinking paint and all that stuff but guys who the thing you have to remember about Bruce was that he was on his absolute last chance he was actually beyond his last chance because he was fired

by the Steelers retired and was driving around Georgia when he got a call saying, do you want to be the Colts offensive coordinator, right? And then everything led to his miraculous job with the Cardinals. And he thought there was something special in people who were sort of

given second chances or you know, have nothing to lose. That's why I think that's what's... That's the phrase. Why he loved Carson Palmer was that he and Carson Palmer were just sort of gunslingers.

I mean, and there's, a lot of guys. Dwight Freeney is a good example. There were a lot of guys he would bring in to say, guys, last chance, let's go. We thought there was a motivating factor there. And literally fueled their offensive scheme and approach. I mean, that's who

they were. It's just like this group of guys who was like, well, fuck it. And they're now, Sam Bradford is their quarterback, which is essentially the biggest departure you could make from that mindset. The point I was going to make was that that's great when Bruce Ariens is there, but it doesn't necessarily

set you up for a youth movement, you know? Yeah. When you're bringing it a bunch of guys who are on their last legs, the developmental pipeline gets a little bit stuck. And so now all of a sudden you've got Sam Bradford. I don't know if Josh Rosen will be able to play this year. I don't know what David Johnson will look like when he's healthy.

I don't know. I don't know. Again, there are just more questions and answers with this group. And I think that enough teams have built up what's around them to kind of trump them. And there's some others that were right on the edge for me. The Broncos, I don't necessarily have a lot of faith in their line. The receivers are good, but you saw what happened there. They were kind of a disaster. There were a couple of teams that

were right there, but I just looking at that Cardinals roster and thinking about just, again, the murkiness of who they're going to be, that's what puts them in their way. So there's a couple of teams I want to mention that are not on my list, but deserve shade thrown their way. The Houston Texans have obviously a great receiving core. Pro football focus is worst pass blocking rating for a line last year. Deshawn Watson is as talented young quarterback as there is. I'm

worried that offensive line could do some damage to him. I totally agree with you. The only reason of that on my list is because DeAndre Hopkins is an alien. That's what I'm saying. The only reason he's there and also say what you will about the staff, but they are quarterback focused.

What they did with Watson last year was impressive. Yeah. To really play into his strengths, a lot of play action. They gave him every chance to succeed in spite of the personnel. And yeah, you're right. I think that's another reason why they just don't make it. I also want to throw some shade at the Colts, who also had a bad line last year.

The only reason, I mean, Andrew Luck has taken a lot of hits when he's played. They hired Frank Reich, who I think is, and obviously tried to hire Josh McDaniels. They're trying to win with schemes and coaching, and I think that's admirable if you're a quarterback. And yeah, anybody else you want to throw out there? No, those are the ones that I would say.

I think those make me feel the best. and just in terms of like I feel confident to say these groups have not done a good job. Also in Indy, I think Nixiriani is a really interesting coach. He's a guy I've talked to a couple different times. He's the wide receivers coach in San Diego with the chargers before he got this job. I just, I think he's a very thoughtful football person. Yeah. Really considers the game in interesting ways.

And I think him and Reich is a cool pairing. Yeah. Coming up, we're going to get some of the best quarterback situations around the league. But first, we want to talk to you about Mint Mobile. The big and big wireless stands for a lot of things. Big contracts, big bills, and big secrets. What those big wireless companies don't want you to know, that there's a way to cut your bill down to just 15 bucks a month.

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Let's get positive, Robert. I like that better. It's time for the top five. No, it's not. You love that worst infrastructure segment. No, I really did. But I like being positive about things. I'm a generally like rosy guy.

I like to have a positive outlook. Optimism is important to me. It really is. Okay. Top five infrastructures. These are in no particular order. overlap on three of them. Three of the most obvious ones. We're going to start with when we do have overlap on.

Robert, kick us off. I'm going to go with the Steelers, and it has everything to do with just roster talent. Skill position guys. Yeah, and honestly, beyond skill position, guys, that line is good. And it has been good. Pouncey has his injury concerns, obviously,

but Foster has been so solid for so long. David DeCastro is one of the better guards in the league. Marcus Gilbert is eternally underrated as their right tackle. you know, Villanueva has turned into such a surprising entity as a reliable left tackle in the NFL. So that group is, you can play with that and you can be happy with it. They're one of the better lines in the league pretty much every single year. And that's before you even get into, you know, the combo of Antonio Brown, Juju, and Levi-on-Bel. I mean, that's a trio that is hard to be in the NFL period.

So, yeah, I mean, that's why they're there. By the way, and this is a whole approach here, they were seventh in defense last year. They'll keep you in some games. They're going to give whoever, and their quarterback obviously is very talented, but there are a lot of guys who could at least compete as quarterback in that environment.

I totally agree with you. I mean, I just think that... It's such an absurdly well-run franchise. The skill position guys alone are enough to merit consideration. Then you throw in the line, then you throw in the defense,

then you can... Just the overall consistency of the organization, exactly what you're talking about. I mean, it is heaven for a quarterback to exist in that sort of situation. Now, they get rid of Todd Haley, but by the way, that was probably Rothesberger's doing, and they bring in a guy that he's more comfortable with. I don't know how much you've talked to Randy Fickner in your life. I have. He is a gem.

He really is. He is like a football coach through and through. I'm curious to see what he looks like as the coordinator because he's never had that job, but he's been with Rathustberger forever. I think they have a mind meld that you wouldn't. necessarily anticipate with a new coordinator, but because of that familiarity, I think they have a really good chance to succeed. The guy on this roster, and this may sound weird, that I think is emblematic of why it's a great place to play football, is Mike Hilton. And that

might be strange because he's a nickelback, and that doesn't necessarily play into why quarterbacks succeed here. But I just think that they consistently find guys like that. He was a street free agent two years ago, and he comes in and just emerges into one of the best nickelbacks in the entire league, consistently making plays super reliable. And that's just what this team does at every single level. And what more could you ask for

if you're trying to play quarterback for a franchise? I love the Terrell Abund's pick, as an aside. I know you do. He was one of your guys. He's one of my guys. I also like James Washington on the offensive side. I just think that explosion. I mean, that again, what they've done with that that wide receiver

pipeline is unbelievable. I mean, to be able, I love them. You just ship Martavis Bryant off and be like, eh, we're good because we have juju. It's really impressive just how consistent they've been in finding talent at that position and not necessarily the highest level talent.

Let me ask you a question. If you were a really good football player, would you not really want to play for the Steelers? They'd be number one. They'd be number one for you. They might be number one for me too. I like where their training camp is. Pittsburgh is a manageable town.

I'm in. I'm in on playing for the Steelers. I just think that for the most part the reason it wouldn't be New England is because of everything we've heard from reasonable humans about what it's like to play football in New England. Also Foxborough is very inconvenient. But also I would also

say that if once Belichick leaves there's no guarantee that any of that continues. I would say the Steelers thing is a little more big picture. How old is Kevin Colbert? He's probably in his late 50s. He's been there forever. He's quietly I mean yeah, 18 years he's been the GM there.

I mean, that's remarkable. He's great. He's one of my favorite people in the league. All right. This is, again, it has a lot to do with roster talent overall. And it's the Minnesota Vikings. I just think that they are so complete top the bottom. And their depth is maybe not where it was a couple of years ago as a couple of their earlier draft picks

have not necessarily panned out in the way they had anticipated. And then just the overall, how expensive everything is getting, they can't really do it that well. and their outlook for the next couple years is a little bit murky. They have a lot of guys hitting free agency at the same time that are going to be very expensive and now you're carrying that cousin's contract. But for 2018, you look at the Minnesota Vikings roster top to bottom, just that depth chart. It's hard to beat.

It might be the best one in the entire NFL when you don't take quarterback into account. Okay. So I think the world of the Vikings are not on my list. All right. Give me a reason. Okay. So first of all, I just think that they're probably, sixth or seventh.

And the team I have instead of them, I think, makes a very good argument to be in the top three. And that is the number one pass blocking team in 2017, who have arguably the most exciting player out of the backfield in the league and a great supporting cast. That would be the New Orleans Saints. I think that Sean Payton is as offensive-minded as you're going to get. I think Alvin Kamara has extended Drew Brees' career. As I said, the line is good.

The skill position guys are good. Michael Thomas is Pro Football Focus as number two route runner in the entire NFL. I would be a very happy quarterback if I was the starter for the New Orleans Saints. It's nothing against the Vikings. I love the Vikings. They are a Super Bowl contender. I like the Saints more. It's really close to me.

And I think that when you take Peyton into account, I might be on your side of this, actually. but I don't know and feeling Stefan Diggs, Dalvin Cook coming back, Kyle Rudolph is so incredibly consistent and reliable as a tight end and I think we both like Di Filippo and you I love D'A filippo. This happens with coaching staffs, right? Where when you eventually you become so successful that your guys start leaving and just the talent drain is hard to replace. But Pat Schumer going to New York and now that they have to bring in someone else. DeFilippo is somebody you can be excited about, and that's not necessarily what happens when you replace coordinators on successful teams. And it's on, Mike Zimmer, choosing John D. Filippo to be his offensive coordinator is really interesting because it's not necessarily the safest choice in the world. And Mike Zimmer is somebody that I think gets pinned as his very conservative coach and everything else. It's an interesting, fun selection to me in order for

this offense to be able to take the next step. So it didn't have to be this way. They could have done something like higher Bryant, Shot Animer, had this shit be boring. Right. And I think we're going to find out. John D. Filippo is almost impressive people in football, full stop. When I spent a couple hours with him at the Super Bowl during those media sessions, he could articulate everything. The videos that I've tweeted out before of him just explaining the offense in Philadelphia

were unbelievable. And I just think that he's a great addition. but I think again I just I have to give the offensive the offensive bent of the Saints is what gives them the edge here I do want to say one thing about the tight end situation so they have Josh Hill obviously they brought in Benjamin Watson this is the Saints I'm talking about

the Saints have Benjamin Watson who is 37 years old who turned 38 this year you could have told me any age you know it would have believed you Scott told me Ben Watson was 43 years old but that sounds right Scott Katzmar from football outsiders Did you see this tweet about receivers above age 38? No. Okay.

I want everybody to be sitting down here. So these are the people who had the most receiving yards after age 38. Larry Fittier. Jerry Rice, 4,400. Charlie Joyner, 1,300, getting a little less. Irving Friar, Joey Galloway, Tim Brown, Tim Brown's at 200. Okay? So we're getting slim pickings here.

Art Monk, Tony Richardson. Okay. who is number eight Robert Players most receiving yards at age 38 Tony Richardson obviously a fullback is seventh all time yards after age 38 Number eight is a quarterback That's not surprising actually

And it's Tom Brady That's hilarious that was gonna be my guess damn it I should have gone for it Tom Brady Has the eighth most receiving yards That's amazing anybody 38 and up, Ben Watson will turn 38 this year.

Hopefully he makes, hopefully he surpasses Tom Brady if he continues to play. The fact that guys can be that productive at that age is just so crazy. Well, the Jerry Rice thing is outrageous. Oh, that's just, I mean, that's a whole different level. We're having a different conversation. But you think about certain players like, oh, man, that guy played for a long time. He was probably old enough to put up some numbers. Tony Gonzalez retired five years ago at age of.

37 and he seemed like he was ancient. How old do you think Larry Fitzgerald is? 36. He's 34 years old. It seems like he's been in leave for 25 years. These guys, we think they're so old. Like, God, man, that guy's been around and they're like 33. So to put up those sort of numbers when you get to 36, 37, 38 is completely

ridiculous. We shouldn't talk about Jerry Rice. I can't believe this. He's 34 years old. I know. Larry Fitzgerald has been on the Cardinals. since my since I was in eighth grade.

2004? 2003? Good God. I guess that was my freshman year of high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, which is still just crazy to think about. Lord. Okay, all right, let's move on.

We could literally get stuck in this hole all day. All right. Speaking of John D. Filippo, we both have the same next guy, next team. Philadelphia Eagles. Not much to say about this one. You win the quarterback with, you win the Super Bowl with Nick Full as a quarterback. You get to be on the best quarterback infrastructure list.

Are they number one if you were ranking them? Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's not like anything has changed in the last five months to put them below this. I mean, they haven't lost significant amounts of talent. The one thing obviously they have lost is their offensive coordinator and their quarterback coach. But I'm betting they'll be able to fill those holes. It's interesting.

I mean, we can never know to what degree these kind of collaborative coaching efforts are a product of everyone's, like, just contributions, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's no way to know how much Frank Reich played into how successful the Eagles were last season. I think this is going to be an interesting test case because that brain trust of those three guys clearly just had something clicking. They were so in tune with their roster talent who they wanted to be. It was just remarkable.

But then I assume they're going to be just fine with Mike Groh. Now is the offensive coordinator. And then you have the exact same roster more or less. You bring in Mike Wallace, who's like a real NFL receiver. He's not good anymore. But it's like there's tossing guys that can play. And I love the guy they got in the second round. The Dallas go from South Dakota State is just a perfect kind of facsimile of Zach Ertz.

The fact that they're going to have both of those guys combined with everything else they had. Yeah, they're fun, man. I mean, there's no two ways about it. I'm in. I'm in on the 2018 Philadelphia Eagles. I think that so much of the Eagles success is just thinking outside the box or inside a separate box, right?

And when you do that, you can only help your quarterback. And I've written this, but what the Eagles did, which is essentially try to, when Wents goes down on December 1st, they tried to get in as much as they could in those last couple of weeks knowing that padded practices were limited,

especially in the last part of the season. And then they had the buy, and they essentially had another training camp, hard hits, ones against ones, all to get Nick Foles ready. And I know it sounds very simple, but I don't think a lot of coaches would do that. I don't think that a lot of staffs would say,

we're just going to have a new training camp, and we're going to hit, even though it's so counterintuitive to knock the crap out of each other before the biggest games of the season. I mean, this is a little bit separate, but Albert Breer wrote today about Lincoln Riley, the Oklahoma coach,

and about how many teams are visiting him because of how many plays in the Super Bowl looked like Oklahoma plays, which is something Lincoln has talked about, both with Breer and with, I think, Adam Schaefter around the draft time, about how there were just plays that were just taken from the playbook.

If you're coaching staff, if you're an owner, my call today is to the coaching staff, and I'm saying, did you guys meet with Lincoln Riley? And if the answer is no, I'm really upset. And I just think that it's so easy. Just fire your coach right there.

It's higher Lincoln Riley. It's so easy to be forward thinking in the NFL. And yet some teams still don't do it. And the Eagles are a good example of a team that went above and beyond. And when you do that and you use every tool in the toolbox and you use analytics and you use, you know, new scientific training regimens, you will help your quarterback. And that's what the Philadelphia Eagles did. I 100% agree. also I forgot that Darren Sprouls is going to be on this team next year, which is very fun.

Just one of those things. It's like, oh yeah, I forgot. Darren Sprouls is around. Just one more guy to help out your quarterback and to make his life easier. All right. Another double up. They're out here. It's the Los Angeles Rams.

They be my closest one to the Eagles. I mean, I think they're number two for me. Only because, I mean, do you think that there is a, okay, I want to phrase this correctly.

I don't want anybody get mad at me. How good do you think Jared Gough is? I think that's the crux of this conversation, right? I don't think he's that great. I think he's fine. You know what? We've talked about this 100 times, and I think that this is at the center of quarterback conversations and team-building philosophies in the NFL right now.

And it's, can you find a guy who can succeed when you give him the chance to succeed? Right. And that's what Jared Gough can do. And I think that's enough. If you can get over that bar, that's fine for me. I don't think Jared Gough is making plays. is independent of the infrastructure available to him in Los Angeles. But I'm not saying that as a knock on Jared golf, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean, his rookie year, before you bring in Sean McVeigh, before you bring in that infrastructure, before you bring in some of those skill guys, his rookie year, he had by some measurements, the worst rookie season in history. And I think in one, he was the second worst to Mr. Andrew Walter. Jesus. I believe there were some metrics where that was the case. and then McVeigh comes in he brings in Matt LaFlery brings in all these offensive gurus and surprise Jared Goff is able to execute it

there were a lot of reasons for that I mean you know I think that the audible system and making things very simple Greg Olson was there I mean he was their quarterbacks coach Right but they's now the office coordinator in Oakland I believe Yeah

And they so wasn't he there recently Wasn't Greg Olson there like three years ago in Oakland Yes Greg Olson, man, he gets around. Yeah, I mean, he's been a coach in the league for a long time. He's not going anywhere. Jacksonville a couple years ago. Okay, so independent of Greg Olson's whereabouts, he was there last year.

And I just think that that was the magic of Jared Goff. Is he independently great? No, can he do what he's asked to do? Apparently so. It's really close with them in the Eagles for me. Wow. It's not a one, it's like a one-a-one. the Eagles won the Super Bowl is Nick Foles.

I understand that. New England Patriots. I just think coming into this year, adding Brandon Cooks to that team, it's Brandon Cook's Robert Woods, a really solid offensive line. In my opinion, an underrated group.

And I think that bringing John Sullivan back was one of the quieter, important choices of the offseason for any team, just to keep that continuity. And you have Todd Gurley and Sean McVeigh is the coach. I mean, that is, you can work with that.

It's very close to me. I think that the Eagles, it and they should based on track record. But I love what the Rams have done. I love who they are. Everything about the identity of this team offensively is attractive. I want to get people mad at you.

Are you saying that Sean McVeigh is better coached and Doug Peterson? No. I think it's very close. Doug Pearson's better coached Sean McVeigh. It just sounds like you're saying that because all the other auxiliary things that make the Eagles slightly better. Okay.

That's fine. I just wanted to get you on record because I thought you were trending in that direction. I think the difference would be marginal though. I mean, like, I really like Sean McVeigh. Could you imagine? Real quick. Yes, I do want to do one more.

But I just want to say, could you imagine a year ago that we'd be having the elite coach debate, who's better Doug Peterson or Sean McVe? Yeah, no, I could not imagine that. And I think that's why this stuff is crazy. Like, if someone from the future had knocked on it or, I'm like, that's the argument. Who's better at the top of the coaching food chain? I'd be like, what the hell happened? Okay. last one take us out robert can city chiefs go ahead i go with the chiefs i just think that again

we i mean andy reed is a huge part of this as he should be you know we talk about yeah the idea of being creative of being innovative and for a guy that is i don't know two decades into his coaching career to be on the forefront with guys like doug peterson like sean mc fay like kyle shanahan is remarkable and the idea that they are just continuously doing new stuff and giving their guys the best chance to succeed with unconventional measures is amazing. And then you just, that's before you even mention the talent. I mean, Kareem Hunt, Travis Kelsey, Tyree Kill, Sammy Watkins. All right.

That's going to be okay. I just think that that team is going to be the most inherently watchable team in the NFL next year, no matter how it goes. They are the team I'm most interested to see just on a week-to-week basis, offensively. Okay, so I love the Chiefs. I think they're a Super Bowl contender. Wow! What?

How is that? I mean, any team... The defense is a disaster. I would say there are... We can get into this later. This is not the conversation we're having. I would put Super Bowl contender as the top 10 teams in the NFL. I think the Chiefs are one of them.

That's tough for me to say. This is a conversation for another time, though. I mean, the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year. The Eagles had the best roster in the league last year. But we, that was not, that was that were reverse engineering that. Incorrect. I said that before the season started. You said they had the best defensive line and you had said they had depth. I don't find me where you said they had the, I believe you.

But I don't remember you saying it is in my preseason rankings. I don't necessarily know. I, the only reason it didn't say that is because Ben Glickman softened the language. Where did you have them in your preseason rankings? They were 10. There you go. Top 10 teams go in the Super Bowl. Sure, but it was all about Wentz for me last year.

It was all about how good he was going to be. It's all on record. I think they had the best roster top to bottom. When they made those trades for Timmy Jernigan, for Darby, when they did that, I think, I said, this happened in a lot of places. That team has no defined weaknesses if their quarterback develops into the player they think he's going to. Sure. And that's exactly what happened.

I mean, I think that. That is, I do not say that about the Chiefs. The term Super Bowl contender is only so dumb because last year we had the debate about the Jaguars. was a little more high on them just because of the defense and, you know, they turned out to be, I don't think either of us considered them an actual Super Bowl contender, but they got there. Or they got to the AST championship game. They got to the absolute cusp of Super Bowl contention. I would say this, I mean, there's, you know, we did the thing last year and we should do it again.

How many teams can win the Super Bowl? And the answer is usually around 16 or 17. And I would put the Can City Chief squarely on that list. I would not. Jacksonal Jaguars got to the NFV championship game last year. The Jacksonal Jaggars had probably the second best roster in the NFL last year.

They had Blake Bordels is what I'm saying. Who knows how good Mahomes is going to be? Right. That's sort of what I'm saying. But even if he's great, I don't think that the rest of the roster is there. I'm saying that can a team win a Super Bowl is sort of an X factor question, right? If this happens, if that happens. I mean, there's certain teams like the Buffalo Bills

or the Cleveland Browns who I know that even if everything breaks right, they're not making the Super Bowl. The Kansas City Chiefs for me are not one of those teams. I think they are a team where if they get the breaks, they can get to the cusp of contention. I think that's aggressive. Okay, okay.

Okay. You're the one who ranked them on, I don't even have them on my infrastructure's list. Okay. I love the offense. I hate the defense. Okay, all right. It's the Falcons.

I just think the skill guys and the line, you know, the talent there is just deep and I love it. And obviously they lost Kyle Shanahan. Yeah, I can't do. I don't think Sarkozyan. I don't think Sarkozyan is Schottenheimer level bad. I'm willing to give him another year, but I just think this is a talent,

a talent ranking. Julio Jones, as long as he's there, the running backs, the line, which still has guys like Alex Mack. I mean, it's, for me, I'd like to be a quarterback in Atlanta. I would have said that two years ago. I would not say that now. I mean, I'd like to be one, but I don't

think they're in the top five. I mean, they're not even near the Saints, Rams, Philly sort of thing. And the other team I want to mention, Jacksonville Jaguars, only because, only because they have a defense that will keep you in every single game, even if you are not a good quarterback, which we have empirical data on.

And I will say one more thing before we get out of here. I think when we have this conversation next year, that the Chicago Bears might be on there. Oh, the Chicago Bears, we were talking about that. I was thinking about putting them on the list this year. I'm not quite there yet. I'm going to need some time. The Chicago Bears are going to be good, dude.

Stop. Stop. Stop. We're not doing this right now. The ultimate bit on this podcast would be if I was driving the Bears bandwagon and you were telling me to stop the whole time. You'd be the only one that was going to because I'm certainly not going to be driving it this year. I'm not going to do that to myself. A lot of smart people like the Bears.

I know. And they're all going to be wrong. Wow. All right. That's it. We're done. Jim Cunningham has walked over to tell us that we're done, which has never happened in the history of the ring around a NFL show.

That sounds great. I mean, I'm okay with it. I think we put in a solid effort. As always, thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast now. Thanks, guys.