The Ringer NFL Show - The Biggest Fantasy Fallers From the Offseason | The Dantasy Football Podcast

Episode Date: May 6, 2020

This offseason has been tough for many players, Aaron Rodgers being one. We highlight the fantasy players whose 2020 outlook took the biggest hit after free agency and the NFL draft.  Host: Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. We're excited to announce our latest podcast launching this week called Behind the Billions. Coming from the two co-creators of Billions, Brian Copleman and David Levine give a behind-the-scenes look into Billions season five. Following each episode's airing on Showtime, the podcast will impact the writing of the script, exclusive stories from production, interviews with casting crew, and much more. The first episode is out now, so make sure to subscribe to Behind the Billions on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. To the Dynasty Football Podcast on the Ringer NFL show, on the Ringer Podcast Network.

My name is Danny Hyfitts and I am joined as always by my co-host and my co-danny, the hero we need and the analyst we deserve the Dark Knight himself. Danny Kelly! How are you doing, D.K.? I don't know if I enjoy your yelling or Craig's just shaking his head

during that intro more. It's just a brilliant. A brilliant combination. Yeah, we're too deep in to change anything now. Craig, I guess. That's how that works. Craig, how you doing? I'm pretty good.

I'm just, you know, I'm just so used to this quarantine now that I don't feel anything. Every day is the same. I don't know where I am. Yeah, you sounded, I'm used to this quarantine. And I was like, it doesn't sound like he's used to anything. And then you're like, I don't feel. I'm like, yeah. So I'm not in my apartment.

I'm in a different place. And I, like, took clothes to that place to live for a while. assuming that like, I don't know, this would be like two, three weeks. I've been wearing the same seven t-shirts for like 52 days and just washing them every, like, two days. There's definitely like a large contingent of people who went somewhere to ride this out and then have just been there for longer than they thought and just are just wearing. Yeah, all the people who are with their parents. Like a lot, I mean, like you, Danny, right? High Fitz.

Aren't you with your family? I mean, I was going to like personal details. Your dad walked into a show the other day. it's not necessary. Yeah, so many people are at home with their family. It's like summer vacation, like, after college, you just like come home and after your freshman year. Yeah, seriously.

Moing the lawn. Except it's like this never-ending, you're going to be here forever thing, but let's not go into that. We're not going to be here forever because football will be back, hopefully, probably. So we got to talk about fantasy. Yeah.

Yeah, today we're going to look at the biggest off-season fallers over the past few months. The draft is over for agents. is mostly over, kind of. Cam Newton's still there. But we're going to look at the players whose fantasy prospects went down after their team's offseason moves.

We could also just call this the Aaron Rogers episode, but we're going to get there to second. Who is the most sad, starting with Aaron Rogers? Who is the most upset by their new teammates? Let's just start with Rogers. I mean, we're going to go to quarterbacks. Let's just start with Rogers himself. Obviously, Packers drafted Jordan Love

first round. Yep. Rogers is pissed. D.K. Do you think this is good or bad for Rodgers? I think he's a faller. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's good for him. He's not a fantasy follower, right?

He's a real-life follower. I think potentially could be a fantasy follower as well, too, just because, you know, they had so many hiccups in that offense last year. It just never really worked really cleanly. He seemed to be going in the wrong direction over the last few years in terms of his efficiency and, you know, output and all that. They didn't add any receivers to his already kind of concerning receiver core. they did add Devin Funches in the offseason.

So I don't know if that moves the needle at all for him, if anything. And then, yeah, they went out and they drafted a new quarterback. They drafted a early down, bruising, running back in the second round. And they basically just didn't address the passing game really whatsoever. So I think what happens is he's going to be relying on a lot of guys taking a big jump in this next season. And I don't know if that's necessarily what you want to do with a guy who's kind of in the twilight of his career. You want to be surrounding this guy,

like the Buccaneers have done with Tom Brady. Like you want to surround him with as many weapons as possible, make it as easy as possible on him. And the Packers have not done that. Okay, right now, who would you rather have next year for fantasy? Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady? Tom Brady?

Maybe. That's pretty close. I am shocked that you think Rogers is a faller because I think he's a riser. He's just going to be pissed. Like, you could be lighting a fire. Isn't this reverse psychology on the floor's perspective? He's been pissed for the last like eight years.

No, but that's been a dying fire because he was pissed that Mike McCarthy was like the 49ers offensive coordinator when the Niners passed in him for Alex Smith. And then he was like, you didn't think I was good enough back in the day. Now he's got a whole new thing. I mean, usually I hate the, you know, he's going to be extra motivated this season because people barely know what motivates themselves. Never mind knowing what motivates other people. But with Aaron Rogers, we know this is going to piss him off.

Craig. Can we play the clip of Packers left tackle David Bactiard? who was live on air with Rich Eisen when the Packers made this clip. Packers made this pick. Hey, let me tell you all something right now. Look out. Aaron is about to be. Time to go crazy.

Hey, Aaron Rock, it was trouble about every year, man. I know what you're about. He's already great just like when he's chumbo. I've seen him when he gets riled up, which I'm sure. sure whether you want to call it or not. I mean, even if they draft an offense tack, I'd be right. Competition. Yeah, competition.

Ooh. I don't know if they like that. I get my hair raised up right now thinking about this. Yeah, so he said the hair is standing up on the back of his neck. To be clear, David Bactiari blocks Khalil Mack twice a year. And the thought of Aaron Rogers stand up on his neck. Exactly. So I just think that if Bactiari is scared about what Aaron Rogers is going to do,

I actually kind of like Aaron Rogers for this fantasy season. and there's not many players I would actually buy into the, oh, they got a little fire lid under them, but Rogers is the guy. He's also like, I think he's the 10th quarterback ranked on fantasy pros right now.

I would definitely love to wait and grab Aaron Rogers with like the 100th pick in the draft. I think that that would be kind of amazing. The Rogers thing is like, you know, I feel like there's two sides of fantasy. It's like the feeling of fantasy

and then like the statistics of fantasy and Rogers in 2020 definitely falls under the feeling side where it's like, he's kind of the go with your gut. Like the real coach speak, like, going to be motivated fire, like lit a fire under his ass type player. And then there's like the

complete opposite where it's like Kyler Murray, where it's like he has all these weapons, it's his second year, he's developing, he's growing. And it just depends what type of fantasy player you are. Some people just like buy into the narrative. And if that's the case, Rogers will be a steal for you. The more concerning part I think is that the head coach Matt Lafleur was talking about them

being a run first team. I think that's kind of hilarious after watching the NFC championship game. But, DECA, are you more worried about the draft pick or or are you more worried about them not adding talent at the receiver's skill positions, or are you more worried about the change in philosophy? I mean, I think I'm mostly just worried about their roster.

You know, they have one good elite talent at receiver in Devante Adams. They've got a couple other just very huge question marks, Alan Lazard, you know, Jake Kumero, whoever it's going to be, whether it's Funches, Lazard. Even like Geronel-Alison left. I know that doesn't really matter, but he's on the Lions. You know, are you going to rely on MVS to kind of take another job? jump after he kind of flamed out last year. I just think his talent isn't there.

The talent around him isn't there. Maybe Jake Sternberger or Jay Sternberger is going to make a big jump or whatever. But there's just so many question marks around it. The roster to me is what worries me. And the fact that they draft a running back in the second round tells me that they're going to be taking Aaron Jones off the field more, which to me is a net negative because Aaron Jones is one of the best running backs in the NFL. So like overall, I just don't see how they got better on offense.

Maybe this second year in the offense will be this magic thing where they like suddenly figured out. Maybe people who take a risk on Rogers and grab them late in the draft, maybe they'll be happy. But I'm probably just not going to be that guy. I'm not going to be taking him in many drafts. And you mentioned Aaron Jones and they drafted A.J. Dillon at a Boston College. Do you think, I mean, which Aaron on the Packers lost more from this offseason,

Jones or Rogers in your opinion? Well, I think, you know, I think you could probably look at Aaron Jones losing. a little bit more tangible anyway because he's going to be losing, I think, a lot of his, you know, he was already a touchdown regression candidate probably, you know, based on just the luck he had in the touchdown area last year. Now, you might see him lose red zone carries, goal line carries. I actually had a stat pulled up here. Let me pull it up. He was the running back two last year in PBR. He was already due for aggression, as I said. He was seventh, He was seventh in the NFL and carries inside the five-yard line last year, 13.

How many of those do you think are going to go to AJ Dillon this season? A lot. I mean, I think Brian Goudicunts, the Packers' GM described him, or no, sorry, a scout for the Packers described Dylan as the thunder to Aaron Jones's lightning, which is a polite way of saying that he will get the goal line carries if he can not fumble the ball. Yeah. So if you take away those goal line carries, that's pretty meaningful for Aaron Jones's bottom line. he's still going to be a factor as a past catcher.

He's still going to be an elusive slasher type running back. But for a guy who's already looking at a lot of regression, like this just hurts him even more, I think. I enjoy Jamal Williams, who is also in that backfield. He's a huge fan of Frozen. I believe he's so Frozen too multiple times in theaters. But I also don't think he'll be on the team when the actual season begins, or at least I have my doubts because I think that they can move on from him

and save a bunch of money. So I think it might just be Jones and Dylan. There's a chance of that, which would help John. owns his value, but I think he's a loser from this regardless. Yeah. I mean, there's no point talking about this next guy, James Winston, because he's not going to be a starter, but we just wanted to touch on the number five score and PPR last year is now just going to be back-game.

I just think that's wild. I mean, he was legitimately a league winner for a lot of people because I think he was a late round pick for a lot of people. I ended up being one of the top score and quarterbacks in the NFL, just absolute hero ball every week. just tons and tons of yards, tons of touchdowns. I just thought it was very fascinating. Like, if you're looking at, like, losers legitimately,

especially in, like, the dynasty landscape. Like, this guy was a big time, like, stud for you last year and now he's back. I don't know, though. What if he's the 2021 Saints quarterback? Well, long term, sure, but in 2020, I don't know. I think he's a hold. There's no point dwelling on him for our fantasy purposes. It's just we wanted to point out that the NFL passing leader last year.

Yeah. Yeah, the passing leader is not going to start in 2020. It's just amazing. Someone who is more interesting in both fantasy and real life. Deshawn Watson. Yeah, yet another talented quarterback. They're just taking pieces away from or not giving him the correct tools. Why do these coaches hate their superstar quarterbacks?

I don't get it. It's just, I almost said uncredible, which probably would have been the right word. But yeah, so obviously DeAndre Hopkins traded to the Cardinals for a second round pick and David Johnson and other fourth round picks that don't matter. Dekhe, how far does Deshawn Watson fall for you?

Obviously the top two quarterbacks this year are Lamar and Mahomes. That's a whole debate you can have. But Deshaun probably was in the conversation for third after him, after those two. What do you think now with no Deontraubbins? I think he falls slightly. I don't think it's a major thing. I think it's like you're getting rid of the guy that he trusts the most in the offense,

the guy that was there for him, the most reliable pass catcher just in one-on-one situations in the red zone, all that stuff. You're getting rid of a very, very reliable weapon. So that's going to hurt him slightly. but at the same time, Watson is still, you know, a high-end talent, one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. He still brings it on the ground a little bit. You know, he adds that part of the game to,

in his ability to score touchdowns with his legs and add pick up yards with his legs. So I don't think it hurts him a ton. If Will Fuller can stay healthy, I think, yeah. Drink. Your reaction there is really all he had to be said. We need a swear jar for how many times that phrase will be uttered this year. I don't know.

like, look, there's still some talent in that receiver core. Brandon cooks, Ronald Cobb, Will Fuller. Big winner, Darren Feld. Do you buy any, we've been harsh on Bill O'Brien and rightfully so, but do you buy any stock in the idea that having veteran receivers instead of younger guys is a wise move? For the season, that will be truncated. I think it's a factor. I don't think it's so important that it's worth like trading away to John, or DeAndre

Hopkins. So Bill O'Brien predicted the current. coronavirus, hence trading away DeAndre Hopkins to get veterans who can handle a truncated season. It's pretty smart. I mean, Brandon Cooks only plays eight games a year anyway. It's like 4D chess.

No, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I don't think it moves a needle that much. Like, they paid a lot to get Randall Cobb in here. He's like a 29-year-old slot receiver, so. Do you want to do a quick name game with Deshaun? Sure. So we're going to remove Lamar and Mahomes, but let's go Dak Prescott.

I would take I would take Prescott, I think, just because they, like, look at what they've done. They added C.D. Lamb to that offense. It's going to be freaking amazing. Okay. Russell Wilson. I mean, that's close. That's really, really close. Wilson's in a low-volume passing offense. If you believe that the Seahawks are going to finally let him loose and let him go off. We've been hearing that every year. Which I don't know if I believe it or not. He has been making kind of like public comments and stuff about it, which is kind of interesting.

but I don't see it as much. I think I would probably go with Watson if I had to pick between those two. I'll give you one more, Kyler Murray. I'm going to go in Murray. Same deal. Like they've loaded up around him. They've given him weapons. That's a really high volume passing offense.

He can do things with his legs. I'm expecting a big second year jump. So yeah, I'm going Murray. So well, on that note, DeAndre Hopkins, you know, the other guy who got tossed from Houston this year, do you think that his stock goes up or down in Arizona with Carla Murray? That's a very, very good question. I think slightly down, but I would say more just like kind of status quo. Like he's still going to be a very good, very good receiver.

He's going to an offense where he's still going to get a ton of volume. I think they're going to throw a lot. They play really fast, so there's more plays in that offense. I don't know if you can guarantee him like the amount of targets that he's had over the last few years. So, well, it's not just the amount. It's he led, he leads the NFL in target since 2015. Yeah. So that, that's definitely a concern.

But I don't think he's going to fall off a cliff, if that's what you're saying. Like, I don't think I would still look at him and be like, oh, God, I don't know. I just, I don't want to take him in the first round. I'd still be confident taking him in the first round. Well, that's the thing. Honestly, I don't think I am this year. And that's a weird thing to say about DeAndre Hopkins. But I think he's a follower from this offseason because there's just a few ticks against him.

It's just the combo of changing teams. I mean, again, yeah, changing teams. his season where he's not going to get a lot of time to work out with Kyler Murray. That's a huge problem. He's not going to catch a pass from Kyler Murray till August. That really matters to me. And then I also just, I'm not a huge fan of, look, I love DeAndre Hopkins, but he led the NFL and targets for the last five years.

And now he's going to a different team. The idea that, oh, yeah, obviously he's a first rounder. Look, in real life, he's the same player. He's just as talented as he was. But if you go merely from the most targets in the NFL to, like, the eighth most, that really matters for fantasy football and the whole point of the first round, which we say over and over,

is you can't win your league in the first round, but you can lose it. I don't think that he's like a lockdown. Yeah, he's definitely going to have a great year in Arizona. It's like carrier fantasy team, even though I think it might be a better real life football situation for him. I don't know if they're going to feed him the ball.

Where do you like him then? Like, if he falls into the early second, are you taking him? Are you just avoiding him altogether? No, I'm not avoiding him. Who'd you other have? Him or Mike Evans? He reminds honestly of Odell last year.

I mean, before this season, I'm obviously not during the season, but before the season, the question of, like, where do you take O'Dell? He's not in the first round, even though talent-wise, he probably is, because there's so many variables with this Cleveland team. Once you get to around 15, 16, 16, 17, 18, you're like, well, that's a hell of a value. And he ended up somewhere around, I think, 12 or 13, ADP off the top of my head, like, where he was going on average. I think Hopkins is going to end up right around there, like 12, 13 range, just because the uncertainty of he's playing with a new team that he's not going to meet these people until August. Like, that matters. That's, yeah, that's so bizarre. That's so bizarre.

So on that note, someone who has met his quarterback, Julian Edelman with the Patriots. Tom Brady is gone. They were the biggest loser. Yeah. So there's like the personal aspect to this in the numbers. I don't really care about the numbers. Here's what I care about. Julian Edelman and Tom Brady went to the Syracuse basketball game, like what feels like forever ago, but it was like March, I think.

and there's that video where Julian Edelman's like he's coming back he's coming back and Tom Brady's just sitting there like will you shut up and it was like either a combo he has no idea I'm not coming like Edelman clearly didn't know

what a betrayal and then after Brady left Julian Edelman unfollowed him on Instagram and then everyone pointed it out and then he refollowed him on Instagram so I don't think he's doing well I think Edelman might lead the league in like bad body language

this year. I just imagine there's going to be a lot of slants that bounce off his back shoulder because they're two feet behind him. He's just going to be like, God, fucking damn it. This sucks. We're going to go eight and eight.

Edelman's entire game is timing with Brady and just knowing where Tom Brady wants him to be. And now he has to figure out timing with Jared Stidham, who I don't know how many passes Jared Stidham has thrown to Julian Edelman in his life. I don't think it's very many. And then obviously Jared Stidham is just,

I mean, he's not being 2019 Tom Brady he's kind of going to have to be like 2001 Tom Brady with this team so you could convince me that there is no bigger loser in this than Edelman because even though he's still going to be the number one receiver on that team

I just think his whole game is now, was just so tuned for what the picture is like that chemistry yeah yeah well on the flip side kind of the West Coast version of Julian Edelman is kind of Keenan Allen that's kind of a stretch but I think he's another big loser of this offseason

because obviously Philip Rivers is gone. And, you know, us talking about how no one's going to have the time to work with their quarterbacks in the offseason. I mean, Keenan's quarterback is going to be either Tyrod Taylor or Justin Herbert. And they also kind of have a new offensive coordinator. They fired Ken Wisenhunt in the middle of season last year. And they brought in Shane Steichen as an interim OC, and he's now the full-time OC.

So I just think this offense is going to have a lot of growing pains. And Keenan Allen is another pristine route runner. and it's like Herbert's not exactly known for his accuracy. So he's another guy who I think could quietly take a pretty big hit this year. Yeah, because Rivers, I think, is known, if he's known for anything, it's his ability to throw with anticipation, just throw it into traffic and trust his receivers to get it. That was a huge part of why he's so, like, good with Keenan Allen.

Kenan Allen's a really good route runner. But he's also just like, Rivers, that trust and that chemistry between those two is a massive, massive X factor for this season. So, yeah, Keenan Allen, I mean, he's like, he's still young enough. He's, he just turned 28. You know, he's not necessarily, like, on the downside of his career quite yet. I still think he's, like, relatively in his prime. But, like, he's probably one of the most underrated receivers in the NFL.

Absolutely. But, yeah, this makes me nervous. Like, the quarterback situation is very important. Like, are they going to be a heavy, heavy run team? Like, are they going to just, like, run the ball a ton? And their pass volume will go down a bunch. We just don't really know. So, yeah, he, that's, that's,

definitely one where I'm like he was a surefire wide receiver one last year and I don't trust him to be that in 2019 or 2020 you mentioned you mentioned the word anticipation it's one of the most underrated parts of being quarterback in the NFL is do know what's about to happen half second before it does and who's going to be open it's one of my issues that Jared Goff I just don't think Justin Herbert has that in the NFL level I would love to be wrong but I think that's a huge problem for him in yeah yeah and whenever he plays and to Rod Taylor well I mean I'm curious if to Rod Taylor when the moment comes that they even play Herbert over him because I'm just curious if Herbert will be able to get to that level at any point this year. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me

if Taylor was the starter for the whole season. Taylor, I mean, he's just competent. Like he's the very few turn. I mean, he's the fewest turnovers, I believe, of any quarterback with 50 starts in the last five years. Yeah, decent bit even per game too. So protect. Part of that. And yeah, that's a great point. And part of the reason for that, though, is that he just doesn't, he doesn't like pull the trigger on a of throws, which going back to the anticipation thing makes me a little bit nervous with Alan. Honestly, you could convince me for that exact reason that he's so conservative downfield that Mike Williams is an even bigger loser than Keenan Allen because Mike Williams, it seems like his whole game, half the whole thing he does is just catching these ridiculous balls that Rock

Rivers just rips. And I don't know if Terod Taylor is going to throw those passes in the first place. He's going to check down Austin Echler. So you could convince me, Echler is a winner. And Mike Williams is the huge loser in Keenan Allen just probably gets a downturn. But another dude Well, I mean Danny, this is your favorite player for me for years. John Ross on the Bengals Because apparently there's a difference between running a track meet in

Indianapolis in February and playing NFL football with a helmet and pads on. He was good for those two games. Remember that? Barely. I do. I remember he caught a flea flicker and that was supposed to be like, oh, John Ross is back. Anyway. Yeah, he was incredible against the Seahawks, man.

He was not incredible against the Seahawks. He caught a flea flicker. And then Tedrick Thompson, the safety, like misjudged a jump ball, 40 yards downfield, like a little league center fielder who's eight. And then John Ross gets like 180 yards and two touchdowns. And everyone's like, John Ross. I'm like, did you see the plays? He didn't do anything.

Danny, we don't want context. We just want Ross stats. And he was amazing. T. Higgins, the Clemson receiver, gets drafted into second. Imagine having to play an orange for your whole career. And then AJ Green and Tyler Boyder back. What is the best color to plan for your whole season? Not orange.

Oh my God. Anyway. I got for the record, I get all of my takes on uniform colors from my grandmother, Emma. She's not a big fan of orange. I don't think so. Anyway, is John Ross going to start for the Bengals this season, even if he's healthy?

That's a very good question. I think he's going to be a part of their offense. still. I do think overall, like, I'm not bullish on Ross this year. I think he's, you know, they didn't pick up his 50-year option. I think that's a clear signal that they're not very confident in his long-term prospects. I think it's going to be AJ Green and Tyler Boyd, kind of like leading the way easily in that offense. And then they'll probably try to work T. Higgins in and get him involved. But I think Ross will have a role, but I would not rely on it heavily if I were, you know, if I was.

going into drafts. Screams the last pick of your draft because if you're like, you might have a role, then that's never good. You never want that. And I'll be honest, I've never believed in it.

I mean, I know, I know. That's well documented. Well documented. Yeah. The Buffalo Bills, they traded for Stefan Diggs this offseason,

which is an excellent real-life move for Buffalo's John Brown, who is now like one of the better number two receivers in football. It makes the team better. Kind of not good in fantasy for John Brown. So, D.K., not good for you know. of Diggs either, right?

Yeah, do you think they're both losers or just Brown and Diggs as a winner? What do you make of this? Yeah, I would say I'm a voting both just because, like, you're going from, and we've talked about this before, like Diggs is going from one of the most accurate deep ball throwers in the NFL in Kirk Cousins, a guy who, again, throws the anticipation and a very, very good accuracy. And now he's going to Josh Allen, who is still developing as a passer. He was very, very inaccurate last year on deep throws. That was a huge problem for them.

I mean, you could argue stylistically. that Kirk Cousins and Josh Allen are the most opposite players in the NFL. Right. Exactly. So, you know, I'm not high on Diggs. He was not necessarily someone I was super high on in Minnesota either, just because there was so much like variation week to week. He never really knew it was going to happen, especially when The Eland was on the field. So going to Buffalo where I think it's just a less established, less efficient passing offense. I'm even further like kind of just off the Diggs train. I think he's an elite. receiver like he's an awesome route runner he is going to make them better in real life football like you mentioned but for fantasy purposes i'm i'm not super excited about it yeah last year it was death taxes and john brown because he just was a startable worthy player of 13 to 15 games he played which is amazing for a receiver it's not that consistent position but basically the only people you're like you could have started 13 out of 15 times were michael thomas and john brown

and they would have been like that was the right decision and now i think even if his ceiling's a little higher because Diggs will get more attention. I think that John Brown is now, unfortunately, just lower now. And then just real quick, want to touch on the Steelers while we're still on some past catchers. James Washington, another Steelers receiver draft pick that just hasn't worked out recently. And then tied in Vance McDonald, they're both, I think, plummeting because you've got Eric Ebron, they signed him in free agency, and then they drafted Chase Claypool out of Notre Dame,

who is the titan who turned into a receiver for the draft, right, D.K. what do you make of ebron and claypool coming and do you see any value in james washington or vans macdonald and they're not even draftable that's a good question i think washington he might be worth like a last round flyer type deal because you just don't really know how the the receiver rotation is going to shake out claypool was a receiver at nordame there was some indication that he would switch to tight end because he gained a bunch of weight going into the combine um it sounds like the steelers see him as a receiver so he's going to be like an outside guy for them. And I think he's going to compete with Washington to be the guy out there,

like, you know, playing on the outside going deep and all that stuff. I don't know if he's going to beat him out in year one, though. You know what I mean? Like it isn't, I don't think it's a given. So, I mean, you with, with Ben Rothsberger kind of in the twilight of his career, I don't think they're like necessarily rebuilding. They don't need to give snaps to a guy if he's not ready. James Washington already has the experience with Rothersberger. You know, he's in that offense. He actually looked pretty good down the stretch last year. He's, he's been. a disappointment overall as a former, I think it was a second round pick, right? But, you know, I wouldn't necessarily write him completely off yet. I do think Ebron is a very interesting

guy in that offense. So kind of, it's, that's one of those like signings, off-season signings that you kind of forget about. But he could potentially be pretty good in that offense. Yeah, I just don't know how I feel about Rathesbury this year coming off an elbow injury at 38. Is he 39, I think? Is he like, has he been cleared? I'm not sure. I just can't believe. I feel like Ben Rothesberger was 35 and now he's 39 and there was no one in between. I don't remember.

When did he turn 35 for 15 years? Oh, sorry, he's 38. He's 38. He was clear to start throwing footballs in February. I think the Steelers this year have one of the most like unknown fantasy outlooks. Yeah, the running back situation is kind of a jumble. Their receiver situation is a jumble because there's all these rumors now that like Juju Smith-Schuster might not be back long term.

like they might. This is going to be a team where you're going to have to read about them for a while when you draft in August like things are going to be way different than June.

Every year it just shakes out that everyone has a couple teams that you have no interest in anyone on their offense. You just punt on the whole thing. This year for me, I am hard pressed to think I will be drafting anyone

on the Steelers. And I also don't think I will be drafting anybody on the Jaguars. The Jaguars are not a 10-foot pole team for me. They're a 30-foot pole team for me.

I weirdly think, why can't Shark have a good year again? That's, we're going to get into it. It starts with Leonard Fournett on the Jaguars. He should go to the Steelers. Yeah, for real. I'd love that. Look, Leonard Fornett, who we love Lenny Fornes on this podcast. It's a big Lenny Fornes podcast, yeah.

We should just call it the Dynasty Fournet podcast. That's really what we talk about. But I cannot imagine having him on any of my teams this year unless he gets traded. Because the Jaguars, I mean, GM Dave called well, basically acknowledged that they were,

I'm quoting him now. He told us to pro football talk. He's quoting, there were just some minor trade discussions with that, but nothing substantial throughout the draft or prior to the draft.

I think the mindset is that we're going to go forward with Leonard on the team. It's not a ringing endorsement. Yeah, that's like faint praise there. And then also, Mike Garifolo of NFL Network

reported in April this is when the Jaggors are trying to trade him. He reported, quote, issues with Frenet behind the scenes. I'm told via sources, he's been perennially late and over the last couple years has not put in the work needed

to succeed at this level. He's been sleeping through meetings and they've had to wake him up a few times in the middle of offensive meetings. And also his mood, he tended to be a moody player from time to time, end quote. That was from April before the draft.

Now, I am not going to parse whether work ethic or any of that stuff. I think it's just fascinating. that that's coming out of the Jaguars organization because it speaks to a massive rift between Fournette and the team, which is just a larger part of how this is the most broken locker room.

The locker room and the team's relationship with the front office with this Jacksonville team is the worst I've ever seen in the NFL in more than 10 years. Like, I can't believe they would leak that about their starting running back, first of all. Someone said that about the team starting running back. I don't know why they would do that.

And then, I mean, you've got, Yonik and Gokwe on defense is tweeting at Tony Khan who's the son of the owner in like part of the C-suite and he's like hey trade me bro why and they're like going back and forth on Twitter about why he won't be traded and then you've got Jalen Ramsey's

ousted you got it is a disaster there for net went on first take and was saying let's sign Cam Newton and they're like what about Gardner Minshut? It's like no disrespect to Gardner Minshue but I want Cam Newton now he's going to have to play the Gardner Minshoot like they changed offenses so Fournet might not even be

ideally suited to have any of cash more passes. This team is a disaster. Leonard Fournett or James Connor? James Connor. Because I don't think James Connor is going to get benched. Like, I don't know if Leonard Fornett's going to start for this team. I think I would go with Lenny Fornes. Craig, what would you do there?

Probably Fournett. I still think he's going to get carries. I think, assuming they don't trade him, And it doesn't sound like they got any trade partners. I still think he's going to get early down carries. He was actually pretty elusive last year. You know, kind of his reputation is just like a plotter or whatever, but he was pretty elusive.

You're the one who called him a bowling ball. No, I call him a bumper car. A bumper car. That's the one. It's just the way he runs looks like a bumper car. It's like staccato, like, you know what I mean? You can picture what I'm saying. Anyways, I don't think he's going to be the guy.

that gets like a hundred targets again like he did last year but um you know he had the worst he had the worst red zone luck in terms of like goal line carries and all that i think that could change if their offensive line kind of picks it up a notch this season they've got some good players on that offensive line they just need to stay healthy um so i'm not like picking him early and i'm probably not like targeting him but if i had that choice i believe i would take i believe i would take four net i i love four net as a player and i if it were it Like, I guess when I'm, I'm not touching anybody on a team that is collapsing at the seams. Because if this is a toxic situation, like, there are, like, the best, the players who have the most draft capital are on, like, both sides of the ball are just openly don't want to play there.

And the team isn't really even hiding and pretending otherwise. That's just not, especially when it's this odd situation we're in where a lot of the work players are having to do in the off season is very self-motivated. And they're trying to have, like, there's a lot of effort. players are going to have to put in to be on the same page. And just the Jaguars are dead last in chemistry. And that's a year where it really matters how much people are putting in. So I just, oh, I'm staying away from everybody in Jacksonville. And I love Lenny Fornes.

But maybe ends up elsewhere. Anyway, moving on. The exact opposite situation, Kansas City Chiefs, all loving vibes after winning the Super Bowl. Except Damie Williams, who kind of got screwed when they- Super Bowl hero Damien Williams. Clyde Edwards-Halear, they took him with the last pick of the first round, D.K. Who's going to be more valuable for fantasy in 2020?

Is it Damien Williams or do you think it's Clyde Edwards-Alaire? No, I think it's Edwards-A-Lare. I think they have a clear vision of how they want to use them. They want to use them in the passing game. So that's obviously very, very valuable, especially in PBR leagues, but also just in standard leagues. I think he's just going to be a big part of their passing game. If you had to put a number on it in terms of the split,

I still think it's going to be a committee. I think Damien Williams will be involved. But I'd probably say it'd be like, you know, 65, 35, 75, 70, 30 in favor of Clyde Edwards Allaire in terms of the total workload. So I very much would pick Edwards-Hillair over Williams. And I probably avoid Williams overall. Real quick, do you want, would you rather have Edwards Aller this season for Fantasy or Austin Echler? Eckler. Just because he's more established and, you know, he's done it before.

I think Edward Salar has very good long-term value. Again, if we're talking about Dynasty, he's a huge buy. But in year one, especially, I'd probably Lee and Echler. Edward Salar or Todd Gurley. That's a very good question. Can we get an update on Todd Gurley's knee? I want to get a doctor in here to be like, this is truly what's going on with his knee.

Like, it's 80% of what it was. It's 70% of what it was because it's like, I feel like no one knows anymore. was trainer all but said kind of what the deal was which was kind of amazing that his trainer just kind of came out and was like yeah no it's there's an arth I believe the term was

an arthritic component to the knee I just want an update like you're not like your battery percentage I want to know what that's at for Todd Gurley Gurley Gurley is you know like he's on a one year deal I believe so it's not like he has no long term value there but he's probably going to get a ton of volume this year so we got these next three guys

I want to make a name game out of these next three guys whose roles have all been upended by rookies. So we have Carry on Johnson, Mark Ingram, and Marlon Mack. And I just wanted to know how you guys would rank. If you had to draft these three guys, what order would you do? It's an excellent question. I would take Ingram first just because you're betting on the team. You're betting on a team that like Danny mentioned last week,

it's like the greatest rushing team in history. Like they literally had the most yards per carry in history. And I'm just betting on that upside. on that, I guess, efficiency and everything. I don't trust Caron Johnson at all, to be honest. So, you know, I'm not necessarily, like, think he's a bad player, but, like, just hasn't been able to stay healthy. I think they clearly really like John Jay Swift.

He was an early second-round pick. So that's, like, you know, that's a very important factor in all this. I think they're going to make him a big part of that rotation. But the Marlon Mack one is harder to read. You know, I think he's a good player. Obviously, I think they like Jonathan Taylor more. I think Jonathan Taylor's a better player, but it could be a similar situation with kind of like the Chiefs where there's a pretty like standard rotation where they're kind of getting all their guys. And I mean Heinz is involved too.

The best case scenario for Marlon Mack is that Jonathan Taylor fumbles a couple times. Yeah. Early in the season and Marlon Mack gets the goal and work the entire year. That would intrigue me. But barring ball security issues that Jonathan Taylor, I'm worried about Max's workload. and I think that I don't know why, but I think that my gut instinct here

is Ingram, Mack, and then Johnson. But I just, I'm so unexcited by, even though I was, I love Carri-on, I'm now very unexcited by him. Craig,

would you say that Ingram is the top choice there? Yeah, I think I would go Ingram. The real question, I think, is who would you take Johnson or Mac? I think I would take

Carion Johnson. Interesting. Interesting. I mean, these guys are all undoubted losers of the, upcoming fantasy season, but

if DeAndre Swift is going to kind of just be like super theoretic, I think there's a chance to carry on Johnson is still like the goal line guy, and I don't know if that's the case for Marlon Mack or Mark Engram. Those three were disrupted by rookies. Someone who's disrupted

by a free agent, two people disrupted by a free agent, Philip Lindsay and Royce Freeman in Denver, the Bronco signed Melvin Gordon in free agency this offseason. Gordon's, I mean, going to be the starter. paid starter money. Yeah. It seems that the pecking orders, Melvin Gordon, Philip Lindsay, Royce Freeman,

and Royce Freeman, who was second rounder just like last year, two years ago. Third round, I believe, yeah. Sorry, third rounder very recently is now on the outset looking in. Do you see any, I mean, Freeman, I don't think he's going to get drafted, and there's no much reason for him to be. Do you see any value for Philip Lindsay other than Melvin Gordon being sidelined? Like, is he just a backup? Yeah.

I think that's tough to know. I think they'll still use a rotation. He'll still get his carries. He's a good player. He's been a very good player. For whatever reason, the Broncos are just frustrated with them. It seems like they're talking about getting him competition,

and then they went outside Melvin Gordon. Don't exactly know why, but maybe it's just the size thing. Maybe it just wasn't very good in the red zone. I don't know. I think, so Lindsay last year was RB19 and PPR. And I think he'll be sort of in that running back three slash flex range.

Like he's a startable flex option if you need him. But I think Melvin Gordon is far away kind of like the starter there and the guy to own in fantasy. Melvin Gordon is like by far the most seasoned veteran on the Broncos offense.

I mean, they're like the youngest team I can remember. You have Noah Fant, Jerry, Judy, Sutton, Drew Locke, and then Lindsay and Freeman. So everybody like under 24? Yeah, that offense is very, very interesting. You could see them definitely having growing pains because they're all, like you said, they're also new.

But man, there's some exciting elite talent. Like, Fant was a first rounder. Judy Sutton is like a first round talent. Clearly, you know, he's turning into a superstar. So, yeah. If you had to draft a team, an entire team's skill position players for Dynasty, the Broncos are up there, right? Yeah, they got to be now. I mean, the Buccaneers.

but what are some of the other teams that you'd probably like choose I'd say the Buccaneers kind of stand out The Broncos are sneakily really up there The Cowboys maybe Oh yeah probably is the Cowboys That sucks The Ravens?

No because the Ravens don't have as many receivers But you're not including quarterback right Yeah sure let's include it I'd say the Cardinals are probably pretty high The Chiefs Yeah it would be the Chiefs It would be the Chiefs I'd probably put the Ravens in there

just because they got so much good talent at running back in... If we're including quarterback, it's a different conversation. Yeah. And I think less interesting because it's kind of the Ravens of the Chiefs, if you're talking about quarterbacks. Take quarterback out of it. Take quarterback out of it. Then I think the Broncos sneakily have one of the better ones.

I really believe in Jerry Judy. Cortland Sutton was great last year. Noah fan, I have no idea if he's going to be good or not, but obviously athletically he's an amazing tight end. And the Broncos just have a lot of good pieces. I think the question for them is blocking, but I like their skill sets, really. Their skill group is really young.

Yeah, it's very fun. the now I'm just thinking about this anyway moving on I want to pair another couple guys that Daryl Henderson on the Rams as a faller and Ronald Joe's on the Bucks because these guys are kind of similar in my mind I mean the book spent a not just the second rounder

in Ronald Jones two years ago the 38th pick on Ronald Jones in 2018 he's 22 years old and then Daryl Henderson who the Rams took in the I think the third round last year and they were like he's going to be Alvin Kamara now both Daryl Henderson and Ronald Jones at 22 years old have already been

not replaced but have another guy drafted with a high pick on each of their teams. The Rams drafted Cam Acres, the Buccaneers drafted Vaughn. D.K., what do you think for fantasy-wise? What do you think about Darrell Henderson and Ronald Jones? Which would you rather have and who has a better chance to actually making an impact this year for fantasy teams?

Oh, man. That's tough. It's really tough. Probably lean Rojo just because he actually had a pretty decent second half of the last season. Henderson just didn't show anything hardly. There was like three plays where he flashed, and otherwise they didn't show any, I guess, willingness to trust him to be a part of their offense.

I was just looking at this. It's very fascinating. Ronald Jones is actually younger than Keishon Bond by a couple of months. And he's been in the league for two years now. So I don't know if that really doesn't really matter at the running back position, but I do think it's interesting because people in the fantasy community are very low on Ronald Jones.

Like Ronald Jones is sort of like the butt of a lot of jokes. Everybody kind of thinks he sucks or whatever. And the Buccaneers showed at least, you know, that they are not sold on him by taking Vaughn in the third round. That said, it's not like third round is like a super high pick. Like running backs in the third round are dime a dozen. And this also all comes down to Tom Brady. Like if Tom Brady likes Ronald Jones, Ronald Jones is playing. Yeah.

So I think it's very fascinating. I think it's very fascinating because we don't have, like everyone is super high. on Vaughn this year. And, you know, he falls into a situation where, like, like, you said, Greg, if Brady loves Vaughn, he's in, like, Flynn, he's going to be a massive fantasy factor. However, I do think that people are looking past Jones a little bit. Well, look, this is my favorite thing in fantasy. This is my corner is the rookie running backs blocking. But I don't know if it's ever been more true for anybody that Keishon Vaughn will not play if he cannot block. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. Like, if you get Brady knocked on his ass,

like the funny thing is like before the draft Keishon Vaughn kind of reminded me of Sony Michelle and like he goes into like I don't know what Tom Brady's feeling on Tony Michelle is but they feel like they have similar like attributes I think Is that even a compliment anymore being compared to Sony Michelle? No, it's not. Wow.

I mean Sony Michelle coming out of college was very exciting but like what he's done in the NFL is like 23 carries for 76. yards is like his his in six touchdowns like like you know when he plays is overwhelming when running downs i mean yeah so i yeah but the the buccaneers have said that kishan vaughan von the reason they like him so much is because you can play on all three downs it seems the team seems to indicate that they want a guy who can stay on the field in all three downs he's he's your dubious if that's true i don't know man it's it's so hard to trust what what like coaches say at

this time it's may dk stake your claim now. Yeah. I think, you know what, if I was picking between the two, I would pick Vaughn. But I do think people are kind of underrating like Jones could have an impact still. So, yeah, I think he's a, he's certainly a loser. He didn't make it out of the offseason, you know, clean and like having like a clear job. So he came into the off season as the clear starter.

He came out of it as what's probably at best a committee. So, yeah, we buried the lead here. So O.J. Howard or Cameron Brate, the biggest question on everyone's mind this fantasy off season, will either of them make any realistic contribution this year? The question for me is, what shape is gronkin? Is gronkin to be like the gronk we know? I mean, probably not. I think there's a lot more CBD.

Yeah. Oh, CB, yeah, sure. His body's feeling good right now. I mean, he lost 50 pounds. And then, like, I mean, shadow John Gonzalez, who wrote a great story for The Ringer, but, like, most guys who, like, lose the football weight aren't like, yeah, let me go back to doing football. So what's up here?

Like, I mean, how are you drafting these three? Like, are you are drafting Gronk one because you just kind of have to, right? Yeah. And then it's, what, O.J. Howard, because he's more talented than Brate, and then Brate, or is like, Brate going to be the sneaky guy who has, like, five touchdowns this year because he just, like, is the second red zone tight end. He's in the right place. Yeah.

I feel like, yeah, because O.J. Howard is, like, the talent is not a question mark, but he just straight up played bad last year. He was just bad. I think he's a very good player who played poorly. And so, you know, can he kind of turn it around? Maybe. There's also the question that Bruce Ariens has almost never had an offense with consistent targeting of tight ends. And I'm curious if that even changes now. Yeah. Well, I mean, with the quarterback, you know, the quarterback is a big part of that too, I think. And Brady's, clearly trust Gronk. And I don't know. If I'm drafting anyone, it's obviously Gronk. I'd probably stay away from these other two. Where does Gronk go, you think, amongst tight ends? Top ten? For nostalgia reasons, probably.

Yeah. There's a group of guys in fantasy who are, if you want them, you have to reach, is like a category of guy. Absolutely. And Gronk will 100% be that this year. Because there's going to be some dumb ass in your league who spends like 27 bucks on him.

And you're like, God damn it, dude. Like, I wanted to get Gronk. Danny did it again! It's going to be me. Yeah. So we'll say about. Kyle Murray's another guy. If you want Kyle Murray, you're going to have to reach.

I'm going to reach for Kyle Murray, who will be the MVP this year. And Grunk will be the offensive player of the year with 25 touchdowns. I'm really excited for it. 25. I'm doing just 12 games, which is amazing. All right. We got to get out of here. D.K., thank you.

Thank you to everyone for listening. Thank you to Gromk for retiring. It's really selfless of you. Good for the content. Yeah. Great for content. We'll see you guys next week.