The Ringer NFL Show - The Biggest Takeaways From Round 1 of the NFL Draft | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: April 24, 2020

Round 1 of the very first remote NFL draft is in the books, and we break down all of the most intriguing events of the night, including Tua Tagovailoa going fifth to the Dolphins, Justin Herbert going sixth to the Chargers, Jordan Love being Aaron Rodgers's backup, Kliff Kingsbury’s flex of an at-home draft office, and much more. Host: Kevin Clark Guest: Mallory Rubin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Kevin Clark joining me on the other line, a very special appearance from the Queen of the Drafts. Mallory Rubin, how are you, buddy? Patrick Queen, am I right? Yeah, so we had a call right after Queen was selected to your Baltimore Ravens. And I want to back up here. If you have not seen the video, there's a very famous video of Mallory Rubin jumping around a restaurant that we were at when Lamar Jackson was selected in late first round, at the end of the first round two years ago. And it comes up every time Lamar makes a play or some big milestone in his career. We had a call right after to plan this podcast out.

And it was almost the exact same reaction. Just extremely happy yells. I'm elated. Patrick Queen was the second player on my Ravens wish list. Henry Ruggs was number one. But of course, the Raiders had to be the Raiders and take the fast receiver away earlier than anybody thought the fast receiver would go. So that didn't happen. Kev, it's a great night.

to be a Ravens fan. I'm really hyped about Queen. I promise to talk about things other than the Ravens, but I am in a good mood about this. When you root for a smart team like the Ravens, and you do, draft night tends to be a good night to be a fan of that team.

That's how this works. So we're going to talk about the smart teams, talk about some dumb teams. We're going to go through the five most intriguing things that we saw tonight. And I think every draft is about quarterbacks. If you don't have a quarterback, you're desperate to get one.

If you do have a quarterback, can take advantage of teams that don't have them. If you want to stop a quarterback in your division, you'll react accordingly. Everything in sports is about, everything in football is about quarterbacks or everything in the draft is about quarterbacks. This draft is really intriguing because we knew there were probably going to be four first round picks. But Jordan Love was the X factor. And I think that his selection of the Packers is probably something we could talk about 45 minutes. But we'll get to it.

I want to talk. I want to first start with Joe Burrow. What? Stunning. The love pick is stunning. It's a gift from the content lords. It absolutely is. Okay.

Let's very quickly start to it a million times. Burrow to Cincinnati. It was official, what, four months ago, quite frankly, but it was officially official sometimes afternoon when they said that Mike Brown wrote a letter to Joe Burrow saying we're going to win some games. That's right. Very Mike Brown to write a letter. Yeah.

Love to aim high. Joe Borough to the Bengals, what does this do for the Bengals in 2020? Well, I think that it's pretty hard to find any flaws with the pick. You know, if Tua had been healthy and not coming off the hip injury, then we would have had a different conversation here. But, you know, we didn't. And as our dude, Danny Kelly said in his draft file, which everybody should check out as soon as they finish listening to this podcast

over on the ringer.com, it's an a plus pick. You know, it's hard to argue with the most productive season in college football history, coming off a national title, coming off a Heisman. I think that the questions about whether that was a product of the Joe Brady offense, to me, feel unfounded, you know, obviously, time will tell as people like to say, Kev. I mean, it's not just the offense. It was the fact that his offense was predicated on mismatches and LSU's offense was able to put five guys out into a route and get a missus.

match in every play. And that was something that I've talked to a bunch of draft gurus about our quarterbacks about in the last couple of weeks college football observers is basically if if you wanted to take a quarterback with really good vision and Joe Burrow is that LSU was the perfect place for him last year. And so you go from a place that and mismatch on every single snap and he still has that vision. He still has that competitiveness. He still has that toughness. But he goes to Cincinnati where like AJ Green's going to have an advantage every once on most snaps because he's an elite receiver, but it's not going to be, you know, Thaddeus Moss on a linebacker kind of thing.

Yeah. I mean, I think that there's a difference between saying that somebody is a product of their offense and saying that the offense did a good job of maximizing that player's ability, which is what happened with all of the players at LSU, Borough, included. You look at his skills and what makes him such an exceptional quarterback. You mentioned the vision, the poise in the pocket. it the way that he's just totally cool under pressure. His stats in general are obviously eye-popping, but specifically his pressure stats are just exceptional. And I think those are the things that

give you a lot of confidence that it's going to translate to the NFL. You look at the offense that they're sticking him into in Cincinnati. I mean, AJ Green must just feel like he got a new lease on life in the NFL. He must be elated. Tyler Boyd, if John Ross can ever stay healthy, and I know that's a big if we'll probably say if player X can ever stay healthy 57 times tonight and he's definitely one of them. But obviously what you can do with that speed if he is out there is pretty exciting. And then you look back to last year's pick, taking a left tackle on Williams, got hurt, wasn't able to play. Now healthy coming to the next season, you start to build an offense that Bengals fans can feel good about. So I see really nothing

to argue with for this pick. Had to be pro. I will say, I'm pro borough. The only thing to note, I think. All of these claims that he hadn't gotten a haircut, I call bullshit. It looks like a fresh haircut and I just want to note that. Just want to note that for the record. Phenomenal hair. I'm with you.

I'm a burrow hair truther. He's gotten a haircut in the last month. It may have been from his parents. May have been from a friend. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the rules are in Ohio right now. All right.

Two-A-to-the-Dolphin. So this is an intriguing pick because for the past month, maybe longer, been all sorts of smoke screens. I mean, the one on Thursday afternoon was that they were going to get the number three and not give up number five. Then they could package it all and get number one and get burrow. There was one they were going to trade up to three, but take a tackle. There was one they were going to stay at five and not take two. And then there was one that they were going to take to it. And so at some point, they'd flooded the zone with so many rumors that I think a lot of people,

a lot of smart people just gave up on trying to decipher it. And So this was, if you were to take a time machine from January 2nd, you would say, okay, obviously, this is the pick. But over the past couple months, we've been led to believe it wouldn't be the pick. Leaving aside those smoke screens and just the journey of it all, to what are the dolphins does what? It gives the dolphins a franchise quarterback. It gives the dolphins the guy who until the hip injury would have been the top pick in the draft. Yeah. You know, he is coming off an injury that you can't just hand wave.

You know, a hip injury is a serious thing. And then before that, he had too much less severe, but still worth noting ankle surgeries. So three leg surgeries, the two ankles and the hip. In essence, a calendar year, of course, across two seasons. That's a big deal. And I think that in the couple weeks leading up to the draft, when the Herbert rumors started to gain steam, the prospect of him going ahead of Tua, the only way that that made sense to me was for teams that had Tua off their board entirely. For medical reasons, yeah. Yeah, just couldn't risk it because of the health.

If that's how you're assessing him, that's your prerogative, right? If a team had to on its board, then I don't look at it as you're reaching for a health risk at five. I look at it as he's only available at five because of the injuries. There's just no other world where he would have been there. He is the most efficient passer in the history of college football, Kevin. the history of college football. What more could you want to build around? And then they were smart in the rest of the draft.

You know, getting him an offensive tackle at 18 with USC's Austin Jackson, getting protection, bringing in a big body, 6, 5, 322. And I thought it was very amusing that Goodell tipped the pick that way by saying, you know, good news for Tua. Can we back up for a second? Sure. When he was talking to the television, I don't think they could see him.

No, oh, certainly not. Of course not. So when he was saying good news for Tua, he was talking to a television that could not respond.

I'm sure that the fans that they kept cutting to could see Roger Goodell in the same way that we all could see Roger Goodell on our screens because we were watching the drafts. But I don't think that they were actually on like a Zoom call together

interacting with each other in real time. Though had they been, I would have been, long. I would have really enjoyed some more live updates on Twitter about the mid-round outfit change, which frankly is what I thought we would be leading this podcast. We just did a slow news day. And Roger Sherman had so many questions about that, including Roger Sherman was convinced

that he did it in the den. He had to come up with it. He was like, oh, he probably did it in front of the camera and it would have, or in that area there and had to close up. I'm sure he just went upstairs. Well, here's the thing. I don't know what happened. But it looked to me like he was still wearing the same button down perhaps.

You know, he had a button. He opened up with a button down and a blazer. We might call that the Kevin Clark. Yeah, we might call that, Kevin Clark. I'm sure Roger Goodell calls it that. I'm sure he does. I didn't notice if he was wearing a wristwatch the size of Jupiter. So it's not quite the Kevin Clark, but, you know, a little bit on your corner.

And then he changed into a V-neck sweater that appeared to be on top of the same button-down shirt. So you can definitely do that in view of other people. I just remembered that the last time I interviewed Roger Goodell, I don't remember why this happened. We were on a bench press bench. I don't remember what we was somewhere in the NFL and we just did it there in a gym full of weight equipment because it was the only place to sit and was one of the strangest things. Were you just sat on a bench? No, I don't know. I think it's in like the basement of 345 Park.

But that's that. What did you bench press? How many reps did you get in? We did not partake. Although I've ceased to see God jogging around my neighborhood when I was very, before I covered the NFL, and he looked very fit.

He's a fitness god. Great stuff. How does you feel about the dolphins draft overall, not just the two of pick? Yeah, that's what I wanted to get to. Taking to a over Herbert and then the whole entire strategy. Yes. So I think the dolphins have been a very smart team

over the past two years or so. And I think that their rebuild has been very intriguing. They took the biggest dead cap charge in the history of football. They traded away a lot of talented players. Larry Tunsel, Mike up Fitzpatrick, got draft capital, and they used it wisely. Wait, pause for one sec? Yeah. A team got draft capital by making a trade with Bill O'Brien?

Yeah, and they'll have it next year, too. It's truly iconic. I think that they've handled this well. When I talked to Chris Greer in December, I said, who do you model this? this rebuild off of. And I think that I'm not, I'm saying this just from, from my read on situation. I don't think that bad teams look at a team like the Browns anymore and say, let's take four years and be bad and drafted. Or, you know, I think the Jaguars had what, five years of top four picks, top five picks, something like that. And I think that, uh, those teams never really popped

on those, those, those sort of rebuilds or longer rebuilds. And some, in Jaguars case, they tried to get better and it just didn't work. I think what most teams around the league think, this is back to my question of Chris Greer, is I think what most teams around the league think is it takes two or three years to rebuild. It doesn't take five years, it doesn't take six years,

you don't have to let the bottom fall out and trade away everybody, but it's more of the San Francisco model. In fact, San Francisco is the model that Chris Greer said. He basically said that was a two-year rebuild. They got pushed to three because Jimmy Grappoldo is ACL.

And so I always thought there was a real possibility that they take a quarterback right now and essentially end that phase of the rebuild, the we're tearing it all down and start to build it back up this year. They know what they are now. Yesterday, they did not know what they were. Now they know what they are because they have a quarterback. They have a tackle or protect them. They still have that draft capital. They have a much better cap situation because the dead cap money they took. They had more transactions in any team like in the history of the league last year. They understand what they are now. They have an identity. I think the big thing, Bob McGinnon's

athletic scouting reports had an anonymous scout say, you know, he can't do, Tua can't do much aside from the RPO's. Well, the entire lesson of football in the last five years is just, if that's the case, I'm not saying it is, just do the RPO's. I mean, just do, he's the best, he might be the best RPO quarterback industry of football. What is build around that? And that's, you know, with Lamar Jackson. I think that one of the things about the lesson of Lamar is not go out and find another

Lamar, because there is no Lamar. It's that if a guy does something well, build around him. And I don't, this anonymous scout saying that he couldn't do quote unquote pro stuff, well, who cares? There is no pro stuff anymore. It's 2020. And beyond that, if he can do something elite, let him do something elite. So it's up now to the dolphins to surround him with talent and get him offensively where he needs to be. But I think there's a step in the right direction for them. Do you think there's anything to, and I should issue a caveat alongside this question that acknowledges obviously the unknown around how coronavirus pandemic will impact the season and whether or not the schedule will be delayed, shortened, altered. Aside from that, just in terms of Tua's individual trajectory, do you think there's anything to the chatter tonight that they will sit him so that he can continue to heal? And if so, how does that impact the time frame that you just outlined? I think that's possible. And I think a lot

that has to do with just the lack of an off season. I mean, not just from a, do you, are you going to in the offense standpoint, but more about are you going to be able to rehab normally, you're going to be able to come in and work out, there's no rookie mini camps this year, it's all going to be virtual, are they going to be able to have those check-ins on him like you would if you could just fly him down and get in the facility

once a month or whatever. And so I think there's so many unknowns that I think you might want to roll with Ryan Fitzpatrick the first month of the season, but once he's healthy, he says he's healthy, I would let it rip. I think you only get so many years or you only get four years plus a fifth year option on a rookie deal.

And if he's an elite quarterback, you're talking about an extension after three years. And so I think that you just roll him out as soon as he's ready. If you still have some hesitation about the injury, I could see why you might want to sit in September. If there's no training camp, I could certainly see that. But again, remember, Cam Newton didn't have a full training camp because the lockout in 2011. He had no offseason program. Everybody said, hey, we can write the rookie class off. And there's tons of stories about that when I looked it up a couple weeks ago.

That rookie class had Cam Newton, who was putting up incredible numbers immediately. Julio Jones, A.J. Green, J.J. Watt, all these guys, Blaine Gabbert. And so I think the rookie class thing with the offseason program doesn't have to matter. But I think that when it comes into health and travel and all this stuff, it's so weird, there's a lot of unknowns there. Okay. All right. All right. Let's get to Justin Herbert going, coming to the Chargers. He's now going to be in the same city as us and all the Chargers fans that we know. in our lives or just through the roof about this.

Interesting draft. Are you going to be able to sleep tonight with all the Chargers fans running around in your neighborhood, celebrating this pick? I think I'll be able to recover. Yeah, Kev, I think I'll be able to recover, you know, to quote our colleague and dear friend, Danny Heifitz. Or not to quote him, because I don't have his article open

at the moment, Kevin. But to paraphrase him loosely, it's going to be a calm, quiet environment for Justin Herbert and that's what he likes. So that's great news for him. Okay, great. I had a bit of dissonance when processing their Chargers draft tonight because I do not love Herbert as a prospect personally. Right. But I like their overall strategy.

You know, getting the quarterback that you want to build around, trying to get that cornerstone in place, and then trading up, they traded into the 23 pitch. in the shock to end all shocks, Kevin. The New England Patriots traded out of the first round. I'm sure you didn't see it coming. You must have been stunned. I do feel like we really were cheated, like flat out robbed of some dedicated Bill Belichick

draft room live cam action, but be that as it may. And the... I liked Bill Belichick's setup. He had a big map behind him. It looked like he was just in his kitchen. Well, no, he's clearly got... He's in Nantucket.

He's clearly got a nautical theme. He had a little... dish with a sailboat on it. He had a navy sort of or a nautical map to his right. He clearly has the kind of Herman Melville chic thing going on in Antarctica. It's very soothing. I respect it. It is very soothing. The Chargers took Kenneth Murray, the Oklahoma linebacker at that 23 pick. And I know we're talking about the quarterbacks here, but I do think it's connected because you obviously can't just assess any one pick in a vacuum. Getting a three-down lineback or a downhill defender like that is exciting. I mean, it's not too long ago that this team took Derwin James. They

have a lot of good players. Philip Rivers is no longer in town. I don't know that Herbert is the guy who's going to rally your fan base when you're opening your new stadium, debuting your new uniforms, entering this next era of your franchise. I think the questions about whether he's too tall are valid. And the questions about his intellect, his cerebral approach to the game are obviously clear. He's a bright guy. He's a smart passer, a smart player. Cannon arm, the kind of classic in many ways quintessential NFL measurable's guy in terms of the physical traits and abilities, obviously less so in terms of some of the, there's a little bit, it's not the same, but there's like a little bit of a Josh Rosencomp where so many of the

critiques about him were about demeanor or like the things he's focused on. And I just, I just find that so dumb to be totally honest with you. I think it's hard. I think it's hard to gauge that. I think that demeanor really matters and I think competitiveness really matters and work ethic and all that stuff. Of course. I just think that teams are so wrong about it that you almost have to ignore as much as you can. Unless there's like a huge like unless a college coach says this guy actually just didn't show up to practice for three weeks, like unless it's that, I think you have to tread very carefully on any and all demeanor talk because I think it's just at some point it becomes pseudoscience. Yeah, see what he's like in your locker room, right? With your franchise.

on your team. I think that the questions with Herbert are, can he be a good enough passer in the NFL? You know, can he improve his consistency and his decision making? Sometimes you watch him make a throw and you think he is the best arm of any quarterback in this class and then you'll watch him make six or seven throws in a row that are almost inconceivable for somebody with his ability. So at six, that variance is a little high for my liking, but they obviously had to take a quarterback there and two wouldn't fall to them. Like they probably were hoping that he would. Yeah.

It's, it's an interesting situation because that roster is sort of stacked. And I don't think that there was any path for them to win the division because the chiefs are there and the chiefs are the chiefs and they're a juggernaut. But I feel like they are firmly in the mix as an exciting AFC wildcard contender. And I mean this in all seriousness. there may not be fans in NFL games this year. Right. And I feel like they might be among the teams least impacted by that. Sure.

I mean, I'm just trying to be as, you know, analytic as possible in the situation. Is they're not going to lose eight raucous home games a year. But beyond that, beyond just that, that purely, I mean, I'm not trying to take a cheap shot here. But they also have a really good roster. And they were going to roll with Ty Rod. and I think they still might. But this is an intriguing option for them for 2020 if they wanted to go with Herbert.

I still think that the best options probably go with Tyrod until it's proven that that can't work. But this is a team that even though they were picking sixth, these guys can win. So when you say until it's proven that it can't work, I mean, I guess that's where the question

of what their overall strategy is comes into play. The fact that the chiefs are going to win the division, that doesn't mean that the Chargers can't win a wild card spot and make the playoffs and go on a run. No doubt. By the way, very quick Chiefs tangent here, I do love the flex of being the only team to take a running back, ending the first round by taking Clyde Edwards-Helair and just saying,

we're so stacked on offense. Let's add an athletic freak in the backfield. Amazing. Also, they're just going to make it work. And then in like two years, everyone's going to be like, well, the Chiefs took a first round running back. And it's because they had everything else. Totally.

Herbert, your mileage may vary on how you feel about him as a prospect, but he is more in line with a rebuilding team's strategy as a pick, right? You want a guy who you're going to be able to develop. Take a little time. Get him comfortable. Work on the areas of his game that need to improve. The rest of the Chargers roster is not in that position. So is that where the Tyra Taylor thing is a perfect place for them to be? Because they have the comfort of knowing that they can take their time with Herbert, pace him, wait until he's ready? Or is it just going to be, not that NFL teams aren't used to dealing with us all the time, obviously, because they are.

Is it just going to be a disruptive narrative that's a perpetual storyline until they do something that means it isn't? And does that matter? Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know. I don't understand anything about the Chargers. You kind of, when you stare at the Chargers, the Abyss Stairs Back kind of thing. So I don't know.

I mean, this is, it's going to be a weird year for them, whether or not they move into the new stadium, all that stuff. It's, I don't know. There's a lot there. I'll say that. All right, let's get to the only thing that matters. Yeah. Which is that.

Jerry Jones drafting out of a yacht. Which is, we're going to, I want to say, we're going to get to the best decores and the best setups. And we will have a robust discussion on this. Aaron Rogers, one of the best quarterbacks of his generation, probably the most talented. Yep. Super Bowl champion,

former MVP, on a four-year, $134 million contract, made, I believe, two years ago, $66 million in cash. Is that correct? It's a lot.

That's right. It's a lot. Yeah. He is now in a very strange situation, similar to what he was in 14 years ago when he was drafted. Yeah. There's a first time picking town. Aaron Rogers got Aaron Rogers.

It's the circle of life. It's beautiful in its own way. And in a more ruthless way, it's going to be fucking wild. I can't believe this happened. I have to say I was stunned. We all, the ringer football enthusiasts joined together in Slack. Did we sing Circle of Life? Did we sing Lion King tunes?

No, we did not, Kevin. We all made fun of the Packers for 30 minutes, uninterrupted in all caps. And go ahead. Is this because you think that the plan is bad or the love is a bad prospect? I would not say I think Jordan loves a bad prospect, but I think that when you assess all aspects of this together, one, trading up, two, and this is really one, in terms of how important it is and what impact it might have, undeniably infuriating Aaron Rogers. Like, we all are very familiar with Aaron Rogers and his disposition. And I say this with a lot of admiration and love for him. He's not exactly the most mellowed dude.

Like, he's going to be furious about this, right? How much of that manifests publicly, I think, is an open question. Maybe it is going to motivate him to have an incredible season and make everybody look back at this and laugh at the fact that they thought, oh, he's 36, we need to be thinking about the future. but I think as tempting as the Brett Farr of Aaron Rogers, Aaron Rogers Jordan Love comp is the difference is that Aaron Rogers is awesome in college. Jordan Love is not Aaron Rogers. That's exactly right.

I mean, I do not think that turnovers are disqualifying for taking quarterbacks high in the draft or believing that they can be effective pro quarterbacks. I mean, I mentioned this recently on another problem. like Deshaun wants to turn the ball over a lot his last year in college. And if that had stopped the Texans, they'd be feeling really stupid. Touchable to a lot of bad passes.

Sam Darnold. You know, we got to get a Sam mention in for Sean Fennessee. Like, that, that one is not with the others. There's a little bit of a difference in talent there. Seeing if you're paying attention, Kev,

keeping you frosty, you know. 17 picks, though. Jordan loved through 17 picks last year and made a lot of bad decisions. I think that what you want. Yeah, it's not. just the turnover total. It's the decision making that leads to the turnovers, right? And if you watch

the tape, he does make a lot of questionable decisions. That's why I found the rumors linking him to the Patriots to just be a little bit befuddling because he seemed like the kind of prospect who would make Bill Belichick rip off the sleeves of his hoodies and not in the way that he's doing it anyway. Yeah. Okay. So I want to unpack one thing, which is there have been a strange amount. I was on a radio show earlier today and there was a strange amount of questions about Patrick Mahomes comparisons. And I kind of feel like Patrick Mahomes is this generation's Brett Favre, where he came in as a flawed prospect because he, as we said, had some bad passes, you know, because of the

Texas Tech. Basically what Scouts said was that because of the games he played in college, he felt like he had to put the team on his back and then he would make some more competitive throws than maybe he should have. And then that led to some errant flawed throws, right? And Brett Favreve obviously came in, needed a lot of work. the Falcons gave up on him, essentially. There's a very funny, famous,

Doug Jerry Glanville comment to him on NFL films about how he's basically never going to play ever. And then he goes to the Packers and he develops into a real quarterback. And I think that it's really funny because you can basically compare any reckless quarterback to, you could have compared any reckless quarterback to Brett Farv.

And now you can compare any flawed prospect to Patrick Mahomes. And so now she'll be, oh, this guy, yeah, and he's like a Mahomes type. I was like, well, just because a guy, it has a strong arm or whatever or or can run around and make throws or can make off balance passes like no one is patrick mohms he's a unicorn he got so much better as a prospect from college to pro under alex smith under andy reed under mike kathka he himself obviously is hugely talented one of the smartest guys i've ever sat down with like you we can no longer compare

anybody to patram holmes he's unbelievable yeah i enjoy the the the the phrasing is often, he's A, Patrick Mahomes, as opposed to the. There's just tons of Patrick Mahmong. It's at the end of Indiana Jones with the big warehouse. It's just the tons of Patrick Mahomes is there.

Just go get them. Go get them and plug them in at pick 23. It's interesting to kind of take that trip down memory lane with you because I don't disagree with that recounting. You're obviously just stating facts. but I do think that there is an element of revisionist history collectively with returning to that moment when Mahomes was a prospect. Like, he was always very emblematic to me of the difference between people who were scouting purely from an NFL perspective and people who watch college football.

Like, if you watched Texas Tech Games, you knew that Patrick Mahomes was capable of doing things on a football field that, like, you would get a letter from an, You'd get an admonishment from the Ministry of Magic if you were Patrick Mahomes for performing magic in front of muggles, Kevin. Like that's what he was doing out there. It was witchcraft. It was wizardry. And I think that Jordan Love is an interesting prospect. Certainly has a lot of upside. One of the more divisive prospects, a lot of people either adored him and thought he was maybe going to go in the top 15.

You know, a lot of Raiders, rumors around love, which would have been fitting. Or people said, this is just not the guy. Yeah. I, again, I think it's like not just about his future in a vacuum. It's all about the context. Aaron Rogers is not about to leave town. No. I mean, he's there until 2022, right? Yeah. Yeah. They own a lot of money. This is so. So you draft, you trade up to draft love and have him sit there for how many years? And that's, I, again, I know the Rogers comp is tempting, but that's not quite how it happens. happens anymore, is it? Well, first, you have to remember how valuable rookie contracts are, and that's one of the reasons you even take a first-off quarterback anymore. Why waste half of that right off the back? Unless you think Jordan Love is so special, you can't let him out of the building,

which I don't know, who the hell knows? But what I'm saying is Brian Guttenkundst, the new general manager, not new anymore, but he's in his 30-year. He said, I saw Matt Schinderman say this, one of the Packers beatwriters. He said in January, he's got a lot of Ted Thompson in him. Well, Ted Thompson, not only drafted Aaron Rogers, but he drafted Brian. He's Brian Brom, a couple of years later. And I think a lot of people forget that. This was Ted Thompson likes drafting quarterbacks. That's kind of the Packer Way.

It's one of the reasons. Remember, Ron Wolf was the GM there. That's the reason they had Mark Brunell's backup to FAR. That's the reason they had Matt Haslbeck's back up to FAR. They had some really good. Sure. A couple of others as well. And so I think that getting quarterbacks, you know,

I remember Jeffrey Lurie telling me this about how the Eagles view their backup quarterback. They don't even call it backup quarterback. They call it the second quarterbacks. back because they're just going to play. And so I understand, I understand committing resources. What I don't understand is committing a first round pick.

What I understand is trading up. If you wanted to say, if Jordan Love starts to just fall all the way down and he's available at 50 or something, then I think it's a different conversation. I think there's a lot of resources for a team that, by the way, these guys made the end of championship game last year. That's exactly.

It's within the realm of possibility they could just the super bowl next year. Yeah. Yes. And I understand. the whole thing, don't draft for need or whatever, but it's like, I'm sorry, if you have Aaron Rogers, who's still really talented, and you have a really good roster and a coaching staff that seems to know what it's doing, I think you try to build on that instead of starting to go in a different direction. Yeah. Again, I agree with that completely. I think that's really

well said. This is not purely at least a knock on love as a prospect being worthy of the 26th overall draft slot. It is about all of these variables together and how they compound each other and could maybe end up disrupting the Packers' playoff hopes more than they help them. You know, I thought that Matt LaFleur just looked so happy in a way that I found alarming, you know, in terms of thinking of the ramifications of that for the Aaron Rogers, Matt LaFleur relationship, which is that always the smoothest? Yeah, I don't know about that one. I think that this is going to be one of the most fascinating.

locker room dramas in a long time. And I, listen, there are a million things that I miss about everything, you know, the restaurants, going to the beach, all that stuff. Standing around with Aaron Rogers in person talking about Game of Thrones. We're going to leave all of the seriousness of our current climate aside. I wish there was an off-season program because I want everybody to interact and I want like the June 6th story. of like, oh, this is, there's a lot of friction. There's a lot of friction right now. That's, that's what I want right now and we're not going to get it. Maybe we'll get it in another form,

though. We're going to get, so the leading candidate would be, uh, Jordan loves texts have gone unanswered. Yeah, some, a report of that nature, somebody liking an Instagram that's critical of the other person. Or, I'd also throw out there as a possibility. So you would have like, like, one of the receivers on the team, like, post a photo of Aaron Rogers and be like, my quarterback. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's a lot of ways that this could go. Yeah.

This is a virtual offseason. It's going to have to be virtual. We'll get there when we come to it. I still like Aaron Rogers as a person as a player. I think that everything is going to be, I think from a football standpoint, this can work in 2020. I just think this starts to clock on something very strange. And it's now, it is officially not. now in the same way that the dolphins became a different team tonight,

the Packers just became one of the most interesting stories in football. There's nothing more interesting right now to me. Like, if I could have talked about this for an hour, I would. Like, I'm writing about this tomorrow, I think. So, like, yeah, this is interesting. All right, let's, if we keep going on this, we're going to talk about Jordan Love for, for, and how Aaron Rod just going to express his frustration virtually.

We could talk about that for an hour. You spent a lot of time. on the on the Game of Thrones set kev you know he was there for season 8 episode 5 the bells so if there were any if there was any game of Thrones uh mechanism or a plot line that he could borrow right now what would it be well i mean i fear what the answer there might be you know again if we just stick with the the episode of for which he was an extra are you familiar with the bells are you familiar with what happens in the bells absolutely not the burning of kings landing Aaron Rogers is an extra

Who got burned alive Is he just going to burn it all down? Yeah Is he just going to burn it all down? A little burn them all, Kev, a little burn them all. Wow. I mean, that's, yeah. And meanwhile, could he go full Mad King?

I hope not. I hope that everybody gets along and has a productive, healthy future. That's my hope for everyone. But we'll see. How about Tim Boyle, the quarterback who's not either of them, just going full K. Chaos is the latter and to somehow become a starting quarterback. Oh, the Little Finger. I like it.

I only care about Little Finger because he was also on Piki Blinders, which is the show I actually watch. All right. And the wire. Well, you love Carcetti. You're a famous Carcetti head. During the NFL draft, place your bets with Fandul's Sportsbook. They're America's number one online sportsbook for a reason. Legal, secure, have all the bets you could want.

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1-800 gambler.net or in Indiana call 1-8009 with it. All right, let's talk about the wide receivers here. So Henry Ruggs is the first one-off. As we said, Al Davis lives. He runs at 4.27. He's not, you know, I think a lot of people are making jokes about Derek Carr. And I understand that. First of all, Derek Carr is probably not going to be around for all that long.

He's not, you know, he's not going to be there for next 10 years, okay? But second of all, Lewis Riddick made the point that this is a catch-and-run guy as much as a deep threat. And this is a guy you just put with the ball in your hands in space and things happen. What does Henry Ruggs say about this Oakland Raiders team? And is Henry Ruggs the best receiver in this draft or was that a mistake? I'm sorry, Kevin. I know you're asking me questions about Henry Ruggs. One of my two or three favorite players in the draft, so I'm excited to talk about him.

But once you mentioned Derek Carr, I did start to think about a scenario in which Aaron Rogers could end up replacing Derek Carr and the Raiders. And then I just started to run with that in my head. your rugs. We can do another pod on Rogers destinations. Sounds great. For 2020. The popular pick and slack among the ringer NFL editors tonight was that he would replace

Brady and Tampa Bay eventually. And the buck's strategy forever more will just be to bring in aging all-time greats in the twilight of their years. Why doesn't he? So Drew Breeze signed a Sunday football deal while he's still playing. Why doesn't Rogers do that for like 2020? great question send him a tip

he always loves to hear from you color guy in waiting I like Aaron Rogers quite a bit and that's what I yeah all right keep going rubbs so he is my favorite receiver in the draft though I do not think he is the best

receiver in the draft and I think that is a crucial distinction obviously this is a loaded loaded receiver class we saw six wide receivers go in the first round. Ruggs being the first is a surprise. You know, I spent a lot of time in recent weeks daydreaming about him going to the Ravens,

who obviously picked a 28, not because I ever thought he'd fall to 28, but because I thought he would be the third receiver taken after Jerry Judy and Ciddy Lamb and thought he might fall far enough that they would be in position to trade up for him. I was, I exclaimed out loud when the Raiders took him. It is just such a classic Raiders pick. you fall in love with the speed. And I get it. He ran a 42740.

He redefines what it means to be an electric receiver. Not a high volume guy at Alabama, which I think is worth noting, you know, lower production. But when you assess the nature of his production, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, 24 career touchdowns. When you're talking about a guy who's catching 40-some passes in his most recent season. Proportionally, the amount of times that he's able to get into the end zone, exceptional. I just, I don't know that you needed to take him at 12, but if he's the guy you love,

then great. He was wearing a bathrobe, an old spice bathrobe, I believe. Remarkable fashion display, probably the fit of the evening. It's funny to me because if that was sponsored, that's king shit. But if it wasn't sponsored, it's also kind of king shit. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. It does.

Did you have a favorite outfit of the evening, by the way, what we're talking about the bathrobe? Favorite outfit. I mean, the bathrobe is up there. I got to think about that. I like the Tua family and the Lays. I thought that was a nice touch. I actually liked everything Burrow had going on a very simple area code t-shirt I thought was important. Right.

I would wear a 407. If I became a professional athlete, I would wear Orlando 407. It was good. That was a sweet outfit. I think that my favorite single item of the night was definitely Beckton wearing the Travis Scott dunks. Just fucking iconic footwear move from him. I love it. Yeah.

Me too. As a huge sneaker head, I know exactly what I know. I know you know exactly what I'm talking about. How did you feel about rugs, Kev? Okay. I think this is okay. And I start to like the pieces that Oakland has it.

Yeah. No. No, I think as a player, I really like them. And I think that you can do different things with them. And I think that, you know, speed is, this is a very obvious statement, but speed is good. And this is the reason that the Raiders have overdrafted speed for 40 years now. And I think that you can do different things with them. Like I said, he can be a catch and run guy, all that stuff.

I'm starting to get a little bit excited about what's going on in Oakland. They've got Marcus Marriota if their car doesn't do the job. And we, this pod still irrationally. Pro Mario. guessed. It does. It's not. We're the last two. And yeah. Proud to be standing here with you, Kev.

24 of Ruggs's 98 Bama receptions won for touchdowns. Think about that for a minute. Unfucking believable. Jerry Judy, close to a flawless receiver prospect. My personal order here again, not in terms of favorite, but in terms of best in the order I thought they would go in the draft.

I thought Lamb would go first. He went third. I thought Judy would go second. He did. And I thought Ruggs would go third. He went first. I'm curious to ask you if you thought Judy, who ended up going 15th to Denver, my husband, a Broncos fan is elated. Did that have anything to do with the knee talk, the knee injury talk that started bubbling up in recent days? I don't think so. And I think, you know, Ian Rappaport came out and said that that even though maybe there's some concerns by some team, Ian Rapport pretty much shot that down and basically said that, again, even though he couldn't account for all teams,

that he never missed any time with it. He never had, you know, he just doesn't, the doctors checked him out and said he was fine. So again, Ian said that he can't, maybe one team has a concern, but I don't think there was widespread concern. So I think that was just when that, I didn't know when the receiver run was going to start.

I didn't know when the tackle run was going to start. And I think that once they start, they kind of go and I think then you just get into personal preference with who you like. So I don't think the knee thing had anything to do with it. I like Judy as a prospect, 6-1. He's from Deerfield Beach, which is in South Florida. He's another South Florida prospect who decided not to go to Miami. A lot of those, C.J. Henderson, another one who actually came to Miami at one point.

No, I like all of these guys. I have such, it's almost hard for me to, wide receivers is a position. I think C.D. Lamb might be the exception to this. wide receiver's suspicion that early on is so dependent on quarterback and scheme and offense. It's so hard for me to say, okay, they should go this, this, this, this, and this. I think CD Lamb is the exception because, first of all, CD Lamb is the type of guy Mike McCarthy historically is loved. And I think that that's going to open up. I really like the Cowboys.

I love the Cowboys roster. I wish there was some alternate universe in which they had kept Byron Jones because once you start thinking about the roster talent that they could have had, you're starting to think that they're one of the best teams from a roster talent standpoint in the NFC. It's a little bit different. I don't know. They're playing in a couple positions. We'll see where that happens.

But I really, really like the Cowboys with the competent coaching staff. I think Mike McCarthy's definitely an upgrade over Jason Garrett, how much remains to be seen. I think it's really freaking hard for a new coach to establish a quote-unquote culture or offense or any that stuff without any OTAs or mini-camps or whatever, working mini-camps.

And so I think that's a huge thing. In a vacuum, though, I love the Cowboys roster, and I love it even more after tonight. I agree with all of that. I was really surprised that both Judy and Lamb, particularly Lamb, fell as far as they did to 15 and 17 respectively. It reminded me a little bit of a closer run in a fantasy baseball draft where it seems like nobody wants to be first,

and then as soon as someone is, you don't want to be last. Or when somebody starts drafting defense in fantasy draft. Oh my God. Those people are the worst, Kev. The worst. The defense, when someone, because one time, someone always drafts in, and like someone drafts like an elite, like the bear's defense goes like the second round and everyone just ignores that person.

Oh my God. And then later on. Second round. Who are you in fantasy leagues with? I don't, I don't play fantasy anymore. But I'm just learning. Clearly. I hear things.

I hear things. It's like, listen, you're talking about closers here, okay? We're all doing our own thing. Yeah, but I know you have history. with, you know, all those Florida pitchers you grew up with. So you love to talk about closers. It's one of your favorite things. Judy.

Excuse me. Excuse me. I went to high school with a World Series closer, okay? I know. That's why I brought it up. You love to talk about Cody Allen, Keff. You know why? Do you know why?

It's because I know nothing about modern baseball. So the only prism I have to view it through is who played Little League close to me. You have recently discovered your love for baseball anew via. And it'll be the show. Yeah. Which I haven't played in a week, but after this draft, all bets are off. I see it didn't last long. Okay.

Yeah, whatever. So a couple other quick notes on Judy and Lamb. Judy is an impeccable route runner, impeccable. And bringing a receiver like that into a young offense, I think is really exciting. You know, Drew Locke, building a team for him. Cortland Sutton, really exciting young player. I loved watching Noah fan. burst at the end of last season.

Obviously, they brought in Melvin Gordon intrigued to see how that all goes. But Elway looked really, really, really elated when Judy fell to them. And I'm really curious to see what Locke is able to do with some of the new skill position talent they've brought in for him. For Lamb and the Cowboys, it's a little bit of the opposite. It's like the Cowboys have so much on offense already. It's not like they're in a position where they need to bring in a player like CD Lamb. But at a certain point, I swear I'll try to make this the last baseball comp that I make tonight. I really will do my best and try.

Reminds me of the Blue Jays team that traded for Troy Toilowitzky, where it's like, at some point, you know you should think about pitching instead. But if you're just going to score more points than everyone else, it might not matter. and the Cowboys putting CD Lamb, the best receiver in this draft, who has a lot of skills and a lot of things that make him an exceptional prospect, but body control is I think the best with him. You watch what he's able to do with his torso in the air, going up at the point of attack for the ball, winning the battle for the ball,

and what he does with his hands, what he does with his feet. You put a player like that little, burst into an offense that already has, Amari Cooper, Gallup, Ziciel Elliott, Dak Prescott, how many points are they going to put up? I mean,

I think a lot of people thought that the Cowboys were going to address defense, but when someone like Lamb falls to you, and by the way, of course, we would be remiss if we did not say, what's the extra sweetness here for the Cowboys? You fuck over a division rival.

Because by all indications, C.D. Lamb was the place. player that the Eagles really coveted. And as he started to fall, Philly had to think. This happens every year with them. Remember this happened? The Cowboys and the Eagles just draft next to each other constantly

and then just trade based off what the other person. This happened to the tight ends a couple years ago. It's just like, I don't know. Incredible. I don't know what to tell you. All right. Last three receivers, Rieger goes to the Eagles, after mentioned Eagles.

Justin Jefferson of the Vikings, Brendan Ayuk, who is a huge Danny Kelly favorite, who's talked about it multiple times in this pod. Is there a guy in this group that you think, or all three of them, that's going to flash? Because I do want to say, the last time we had this many wide receivers,

2004, it was not, it was Larry Fitz, and then it was Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayton, Michael Jenkins, Rashon Woods. Right.

It was a legitimately tough scene. When you rank, or when you look at these guys, guys, are these guys all mostly going to hit or are they mostly going to fail? When you look at the last three guys in this group, what do you think about this? So we're going to talk in just a minute or two here about one of our other most intriguing takeaways from the night, which is the trend of teams replacing veterans with prospects on rookie contracts. And Justin Jefferson, obviously is somebody who falls into that bucket with the Vikings trading digs to the bills and then

drafting a receiver. He's not the same kind of receiver as Diggs. He's a slot guy. Like Adam Dillon is a slot guy. So I think the way that they use them together will be interesting to monitor. But Jefferson's like a high volume 11-kech 18 touchdown guy who you're going to be able to just target heavily, heavily, heavily. I like that pick for the Vikings a lot.

Jalen Ragar, I think the eagle. fans probably were just mourning the fact that they didn't get CD Lamb, and so maybe that's always going to be the frame of reference and the comp for them. But he's a, he's an athletic monster. And at the end of the day, I think that something you and I, like, something that we share in common when we're assessing draft picks is that we always, maybe, maybe we actually overcorrect too far in this direction, but we always get excited about the guys who have the physical ability, especially at a position like receiver.

Pick the athlete and figure it a rest out later. Yeah. I was surprised that we saw six receivers go in the first round, and Mims was not one of them. I will say that. But the way I view the 49ers pick is bustly. If Kyle Shanahan thinks that somebody's going to unlock something about his offense, I believe him and can't wait to see what he does.

It's like when they see. signed a, they gave a fullback more money than any fullback in history. And it was just like, well, what's going on? It's like, oh, actually, he's pretty important. Right. He's got it. He turns out he knows offense. Um, all right. We're at minute 51 of this podcast. And Craig is slacked me about it. So we kind of got to go got our role. Let's blaze. All right. So let's talk about this trend. This will be a little shorter because it is a trend. Um, it's replacing veterans with rookies. And I think this is interesting because three teams did it.

Darius Slay in Detroit is out. It goes to the Eagles. And I think a pretty good bit of business for both teams because the Eagles needed a Darius sleigh. And the Lions just didn't want Darius Lay anymore and got some, I would have kept Slai if I was a Lions, but I don't think lions are close to competing. So you might as well get some value. So they drafted Okuda third.

Yeah. And then 49ers replace DeForest Buckner, who's, off to Indy with Javon Kinlaw and then the Jaguars replacing Calais Campbell who made an appearance during the draft introduced the Patrick Queen Pick that we'll get to with Chason, Clavon Chaseon. Is this the kind of thing that's going to work or some of these teams are going to be disappointed?

Because it is both a short-term and near-term short-term and long-term proposition to take a high pick, but also say, okay, actually, we need you to replace this guy right now. Right. So I love all three of the draft picks. And Justin Jefferson, Justin Jefferson to the Vikings who lost your receiver and Stefan Diggs as well. Yes. So I love, right, I love all of the prospects who are a part of this trend this year.

I love might be a tad strong for how I feel about Jefferson, though. I like him and think he's solid. But Kinla is an absolute beast. Okuda is going to be a shutdown corner in the league for years. Jason is one of the best athletes in the drafts, incredible pressure generator. It's hard not to be excited about all those picks. I would ask you as a student of the cap and the CBA and the changing nature of contracts and contract value in the NFL, whether this represents something that feels like it's of the

this moment in time or something that is going to be a new movement that teams are looking to replicate moving forward. Yeah. And is it about the product for those teams where they are, what their rosters are like, or is it something that more teams are going to be looking to do across the board? So I think that there's probably no arguing that NFL teams think that rookies come in more ready now and that this is the type of thing that's viable. And then you add, of course, the idea that the contract is so much cheaper that, you know,

if you have Okuda, you're going to pay him a lot less than you would pay a Darius Slay, especially if you extend a Darius slay. I understand all of that. I think, again, I don't know the 2011 lockout happened. There was no off-season program. A lot of those rookies were fine. I think one of the problems here is that you can't, I mean, can Javan Kinlaw like go work out with anybody?

Like, I don't even know. Can you go to a gym? Like, we really don't know anything about the next. five months. And that's what's different from the 2011 part. The 11 part was, oh, they're not going to learn the offense. They're not going to be with their quarterback coach or whatever. It turns out none of that matters.

What matters is staying in shape and being ready to go. And I think that when you don't get that stuff, I think that there will be some weirdness with a rookie class. I think that generally, I think what's weird is going to be young players in general. The fact there's going to be no rookie minicamp means that a lot of these diamonds in the rough we're not going to be able to come through. You know, Malcolm Butler famously from West Alabama. Patriots had bad info on him from a testing standpoint.

He came from a small school. He goes to Patriots rookie minicamp and then he makes a team. That can't happen because there's no rookie minicamp now. No more tryouts, that kind of thing. So I just think across the board, if you're depending on young players, it's going to be hit and miss, but there's just so many things we don't know right now that I think there's going to be huge successes, as I said, because in 2011 there were. But I think in individual cases, teams will be disappointed because so-and-so didn't hit the weight room or so-and-so

wasn't able to work on timing routes with the quarterback because this is the strangest off-season in the history of football. So I don't ask you to look into a crystal ball that you don't have, but how many of these teams intended to do something like this? You know, for how many of them was this a deliberate strategy from the start. We're going to offload a contract and attempt to replace it with a rookie contract that's more valuable in the short term. How many of them are responding to us

unfolding in real time? You know, the Lions, as just one example, with the Jeff Kuda pick, Love a Kuda, by the way, free Hefe. There was talk until the second that the pick came through that they were going to trade down, that they wanted to trade down.

It turns out there was no offer. It turns out there was no offer. So I, I answer your question. But from their perspective. Yes. To answer your question, it's easier to do if you're Minnesota and you're right to Stefan Day because you know there's going to be a receiver on the board. It may not have been Jefferson, but you knew there was going to be a receiver on the board. That was just the way this class was developing. We saw as many defensive backs taken as receivers, though. Also a hugely

heavy quarterback draft. And with Detroit, it's the same thing. You knew that the top corner was going to be there because Burroughs was going to go first and either Chase Young or a quarterback was going to go second. So I think that they were safe to do it. So I think in those two situations, that's that. I think with Kinlaugh, it's a little bit different because you just don't know how that's going to turn out. And I think that there's, I think it's really hard to, to accurately, that class was not as deep as some of the others. So it was more of a gamble if this was their strategy. Okay.

Makes sense. All right, let's move on. Freak athletes. This is your domain. Isaiah Simmons and Patrick Queen. How do these guys... What have you seen from these guys to kind of project it forward? And the Cardinals are going to be maybe a top five most interesting team next year.

And just because of Kyler, Isaiah Simmons, DeAndre Hopkins. And then the Ravens were all... always going to be interesting, but now they get Patrick Queen. What do these two guys do to their teams immediately? So we knew the Bengals were going to take Burrow, and we haven't mentioned Chase Young yet on the podcast, which we should, obviously an exceptional pass rusher, an incredibly productive player at Ohio State. We were fairly certain he was going to go to. To me, Isaiah Simmons should have been the next player draft and that's not about

a fit with the Lions or Akuta not being the right player for the Lions. I think Okuda is an exceptional cover corner. I think that Isaiah Simmons in terms of pure athletic ability and crucially in terms of

versatility and what that can do for you in the modern NFL is my favorite prospect in the entire draft. And that includes the the gush fest I've already issued for rugs. You know how I feel about Tua. I think that Isaiah Sim is just an uncommon talent.

The length of his arms, his build. You can plug him in anywhere in the back seven of a defense. And if he is on a team that embraces athleticism and explosiveness and, crucially, the spirit of experimentation, the potential for him to be like working wonders out there in new ways is, is I think absolutely thrilling. I could not believe he fell to aid. The college aspect with Cliff Kingsbury is important here because he's already going to have an open mind.

He's not going to be afraid to take scheme chances. Right. So I thought that was the pick of the draft. And then queen. The Cardinals getting Simmons at eight is the pick of the draft to me. Obviously personally, I am absolutely delighted by Patrick Queen inside linebacker from LSU falling to the Ravens

at 28. I thought he probably was going to go somewhere in the late teens, early 20s. I really, really, really did not think he'd fall to 28. I thought they'd have to trade up to get him. Again, he's not at the same level as

Simmons and I sincerely am not implying otherwise, but there are some commonalities in terms of just versatility and instinct. You know, you watch him play and you see this instinctual field read and the way that he can deploy his speed across the entire field. Not necessarily the prototypical size. Certainly does not have the college experience that a lot of teams maybe look for,

but the raw talent, the ceiling. Oh my God. It's just absolutely thrilling. I'm so excited. And then this is a defense that added Kallais Campbell and desperately needed help. But inside linebacker, I am overjoyed by the pick. there are a couple other names. I want to hear what you think about what you think about Queen, but I think there are a couple other names in the freak athlete field worth tossing out as well.

How emotional is it going to be for you to see the Ravens hoisted Lombardi at Wild World of Sports in Orlando on an empty field with only Jim Nance in attendance? I'll be delighted, Kevin. I'll be delighted. We'll watch it together from L.A. will be six feet apart. I will connect with them digitally the same way that Roger Goodell connected with every single fan base tonight, Kev. And that felt authentic and real. So I know it can be done. What do you think about Queen for the Ravens? Oh, I love them.

I love them. And this defense is not going to miss a beat. And I think that the continuity is going to be so important this year. This is something we've talked about in a bunch of different podcasts. I think that the ability to have a guy from who is going to, to be able to seamlessly come in here. I think Klaas Campbell is another one of these guys where this team didn't need much.

And now between the Chiefs and the Ravens, I think there's a, there has been since January, excuse me, since the Super Bowl, I've sort of thought that those two teams, since they started to make their moves, the Ravens, I think that there's obviously a 1A and 1B in the AFC for 2020. And I think that because of the no offseason thing,

that's only going to be heightened because it's going to be really hard to grow by leaps and bounds this year. And so I think that Queen is the perfect pick with that in mind and I think that he's going to do really good things. Who are your other freaks you want to talk about? We already talked about rugs

so we don't have to rehash it, but you cannot fail to mention him here when you're talking about athletic freaks, given the speed and what he can potentially do for the Raiders. I also just, the Raiders, drafting an Alabama and an Ohio State player in the first round.

I just love it. The absolute obsession that Mayack and Gruden have with the college football playoffs. Just firing it out every January 5th and being like, these guys are great. So good. Trading up for Damon Arnett was an interesting move. I'll be curious to see how that pans out. Again, I think he's a good cornerback.

I don't know that the Raiders totally under. understand how trading up works and when you need to do it. You don't need to do it for the guy who's going to go many, many, many picks later anyway. Anyway, Tristan Wirffs, Iowa tackle, unbelievable athlete, the things that he can do at his size are not normal and it's going be pretty exciting to watch him in the pros. I think both the TCU guys are worth mentioning here, Prince Ragar, and that's another Thrones reference for you there, Kev. I know you'd love to talk about Game of Thrones with me. Gladney, the Gladney is one of the workout stack guys where you just look at the nuggets about him squatting 620 pounds and on and on and on and on. The list goes and you can

feel your muscles burning, just reading about him. And then I do think that, you know, I do think that Mackay Beckton, the Jets pick, the offensive tackle out of Louisville is worth mentioning here. You know, running 5-140 at his size is absolutely incredible. And the ability to put

a, to push a truck with the brake lights on. That was the best part. All right. We'll finish up here. And this is probably the most important thing. Who will?

in the living room debate here. I mean, to me, this is obvious. With respect and apologies to Jerry Jones, who literally drafted from a yacht, the pick is Cliff Kingsbury. A hundred percent.

A hundred times out of a hundred. Somehow. Somehow. Manufacturing that essence of Malibu chic. In Paradise Valley, Arizona. Remarkable. Honestly, remarkable. That energy during quarantine? During quarantine. Holy shit, Kevin. Holy shit.

I think you might be winning the entire quarantine. Not just the draft. I mean, that was an unbelievable performance from. Jerry Jones, obviously incredible. Was there anybody, I mean, Zach Taylor, I saw Jason Gay ask this question. Was Zach Taylor at a courtyard by Marriott? What was that? I thought the same thing. We had the same joke, but I didn't put mine out into the world. But I just felt like I, there were some setups there. I'm saying, is this a house? Right. Very interesting energy for Vrable. I don't know if you, if you. I did. He said that nobody was pooping. He said nobody was pooping. He said that was his son on a stool.

Kevin, crucially, he also had to clarify that nobody was taking a shit in the background of his shot. So as the kids say, it's not what you want. It's not what you want. I'm trying to think of Eric DeCosta has a large painting of a raven. The DeCosta Harbaugh split, I found really aesthetically pleasing and soothing. Proud of my team. I was intrigued to see who brought their families in and who didn't. Jason Light, the Bucks GM had his children on his lap as they made the pick.

A couple of different ones of those. And some people were all busy. Bill Belichick, his son is a coach. And his other son, I think, works for the team. And they were in order to be found. So there you go. who do you think at the last minute spared

selfers team from some sort of embarrassment like who removed an item that shouldn't have been there remember it to put on pants something like that well it sounds like Mike Grable did that by explaining that nobody was pooping um oh geez I'm trying to think here you know I think anybody who didn't you know someone like John Schneider in Seattle you don't have to worry about because he got actual

construction here, right? I think it's more like your Dave Gettleman where they just kind of threw something in the den, you know? Belichick, by the way, had his, like, his prescriptions were just on the table. Did you see that?

I couldn't tell if it was like gummy vitamins or something. Oh, and it was whatever. It was medicine. It wasn't anything bad. It was just like, it was medicine. And he was just like, whatever, my medicine's here because you're in my home.

He doesn't care. Nobody, Belichick doesn't care. If some people were like, I'm going to fix this up, I'm going to look great. And meanwhile, Belichick's like, I'm just going to just trade out of the first round. I'm going to not move my medicine and I'm going to win the Super Bowl. I thought that considering the amount of time spent in the lead up to the draft talking about the fear the teams had about conducting the draft this way, the fear that studios had, every aspect of it, there were fewer snafews than I was anticipating. And that doesn't mean that the vibe of the draft

was always like super dope but there weren't a ton of fuck-ups. At least it didn't seem that way. I saw some, a couple of people had this point that maybe the technological snafu angle was like guerrilla marketing to get people excited about the draft. There were people who were just going to be out on the draft

because there were times where it lagged a little bit. But it's wait a second, wait a second. what if Matt Rule doesn't get the pick in? That'd be fun. Right. And so that you got, this is a three, every team is worth like three billion dollars. And it turns out you can just call the pick in. Right.

So what was up with the, um, what was up with the whiteboard behind Gruden? Yeah. As in Orlando magic fan, I have some history with, uh, with whiteboards. I would say it's really hard to, so I believe the Cowboys accidentally displayed their whiteboard a couple of years ago. I had the draft press conference. I've seen my share of draft boards my day. It's not uncommon for a media member to see it.

They're around a lot. I just have never seen it in that situation. Knock on your dry erase board if you're with me, John. I said I once went into a room with the GM and he said, he looked behind him and he realized his entire draft board was there. and then he said, you're not allowed to write anything down. And I was like, okay. And I was really awkward.

And then I started to write something down, like not thinking about it, 30 seconds later. And then he was like, eh, eh, don't do it. And I'm like, I'm not writing names. And he was like, write nothing. So that's how they protect the draft board. Was it, was it on Jerry Jones's yacht? It was at John Gruden's house. Did it turn into the scene from Outer Banks where John B has to flee

the yacht on the jet ski. Have you seen Outer Banks? I had not seen Outer Banks. I was going to text you about that. Now do you want to watch it after that scintillating tease? I don't. Okay. I was, it was not, that team was not the Raiders nor the Cowboys. I do want to say that I've been on 1% battery on my headphones for the last 30 minutes of this podcast. And I've been taking out one air pod, putting it back into charge and then taking them out and like just switching them every time. and it's the most impressive thing I've ever done. This is my... I'm very familiar with the move.

This is my Belichick beating the Rams in 2001 kind of thing. I just want to throw out there that it would have been more impressive ultimately if you would remember to charge your headphones before the podcast. No, I did Slow News Day before the podcast. I've been talking for many, many times, for like an hour and a half. Not the best look for your AirPods battery life right there, is it? I've been doing multiple things for a while now. All right, quickly, who won the draft?

You go first. Okay. I think long term, the Miami Dolphins probably won the draft. I think that they have an identity now. I don't think the Packers won the draft. I do like producer Craig's cheeky suggestion of Jordan Rogers as the pick here. Jordan Rogers won the pick. I just think from the Dolphins perspective, it is so easy to

just float as a team and never make a move and and just let life happen to you. And the dolphins are not going to do that. They know what they are now and they're going to attack. Tank for Tua was a thing for a long time. It worked. And it might not have manifested exactly as everybody who was shouting it into the ether for so long thought it would.

But listen, they amassed a ton of drive. draft capital, three first round picks, including hopefully the transcendent franchise quarterback. That's pretty good. They're my pick as well. I think a couple other teams that we could throw out as in the conversation. And there are many, a lot of teams had decent drafts. Again, I think you have to mention the Cardinals here, just because I think getting Simmons at eight is really remarkable.

And you tossing the cliff flex. Yeah, for ambiance and color. and it's just absolutely exceptional showing from them. I obviously am personally delighted with the Ravens pick, but I will attempt to be unbiased for this answer. I like what the Niners did a lot. You know, even though the players, again, trading up, that wouldn't have been the receiver that I thought they were trading up for,

but once it happened, it just starts to click in your mind, and you see it all come together. And we haven't focused on this part, but trading down, you know, they had a 13 pick from the Buckner trade with the Colts. Then they traded down from 13 to 14 tonight. Tampa Bay moved up to 13. And then with the 14th pick, they got Javon Kinlaw, who was going to allow them to not only fill the Buckner hole,

but continue to sustain this dominance on the defensive line. And then the decision to trade back into the first round at 25, making that deal with the Vikings to get the receiver. I love the confidence behind the strategy. I think that they have to be a pick. Value gods. Value gods. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's probably worth mentioning the Cowboys

for not outsmarting themselves. When the best player of available falls to you, you take him. And they did that. And I think that that is important to say out loud and appreciate it. I feel like this was a draft of not overthinking it. I think because you couldn't overthink it, because everyone was from home, I think that there was maybe a little more chalky.

You know what's interesting about that? And you're obviously much more tapped into both the NFL media hive mind and the actual NFL. But there was a lot of chatter to the contrary, that this would be a draft where we would, you know, I think the Daniel Jeremiah tweet, if I recall, was that we would see, quote, less group think this year. Then there was the Rappaport quote tweet of that saying that a GM had told him that they'd never seen a series of mock drafts that were more off base than this year.

And there started to be this momentum building behind the idea that basically the draft Nick community was just off this year and that everybody was going to be shocked by the draft. And that did not end up being the case. I mean, there were always a few surprises, of course, and a few head scratchers. but what changed? Why did the draft end up playing out in, again, allowing for the shock of something like a Jordan love moment in fairly predictable measured fashion? Yeah, so I think there's a couple of reasons for that.

I think number one is that I don't know if that was ever. I think everyone had so many different theories on this draft because, A, people were answering their phones. Like, I remember Mike McCartney, an agent that I was talking to for a story I wrote last week. week, he was saying, like, it's never been easier to get people on the phone. Like, they're just sitting around waiting to talk to you. And so I think there were more theories about what this draft was going to look like, because there were just more people talking about the draft

than they've ever had been. There weren't these draft meetings like they normally are, where they start at 9 a.m. and go, you know, or earlier and go till, you know, the middle of night. That just didn't happen this time. And so I think that it was, there was just more speculation. And that, that's kind of why I think there were so many theories of what that was going to happen is that people were just speculating saying, oh, I think this, this and this. No one actually knew because, again, nothing like this had ever happened. And so I don't think, I think that there was just a lot of GMs who are in scouts and executives who said, I think this is going to happen like this. But it was, it was impossible to know until it happened and trying to just

be kind of a normal draft. And do you think that there was something to fewer maybe reaches or chances because teams didn't have as much time with the prospects as much exposure to them? Maybe. Maybe. But I think the first round, is always pretty chalky with the exception of love. I think we're going to get more into that with the second, third, fourth round. The guys who are freak athletes who had lower production, do they, you know, slide to the third day? The guys who have character questions or medical concerns, do they slide out of the draft?

You know, I think that what happens with the undrafted free agents is so interesting because essentially it's going to be, they're audible thinking it's going to be the best class in history, undrafted class in history, and then they're just not, there's going to know where to put them because teams aren't going to have a full training camp to try them out. I think another thing that kind of exacerbates that overall sensation from the first round is that some of the picks that if you just assess them in a vacuum, you would label as reaches, were made by teams that you trust. So something like Jordan Brooks, the Texas Tech linebacker, if you're studying big boards and mocks heading into this, you're probably surprised to see him go at 27. But if you track the Seahawks and their draft history, you are probably not. going to be as confident in maybe all but a handful of other teams about their ability to

identify a defensive prospect and make the right decision there. And then if you watch his tape, you say, oh, this guy is, you know, I wouldn't have taken him ahead of Patrick Queen personally. But, oh, okay, I see what the Seahawks saw here. I see what they're trying to build. I get it. So I think that that probably, you know, again, like the Raiders are maybe on the opposite end of that spectrum, but there were enough teams like that, the Niners, the Seahawks, where you're trusting the decision-making apparatus. I give smart teams the benefit of the doubt. Right. Seahawks have done some weird stuff.

I still generally trust the Seahawks. I remember when I was reporting a story last year, but why no one acts like the Patriots? And they were like, it's because the vast majority of people in football don't have maximum job security. And when you have maximum job security and you're a smart team,

you actually do whatever the hell you want. If Matt Patricia starts excellent with Bill Bellocheque next week, even though he came from Bill Belichick, we'd all be going, what the hell is this? The Darius Slay thing was a bit on the Belichekian side. Everybody was like, this sucks, man. right so there you go i would rather have had darius way than not but i think that their their plan

has worked out so far free halfway anything else there's a lot of buzz that i won the draft because i figured out this headphone thing the whole time it's one of the 10 most stressful things of of uh of draft week for me was just gonna throw this out there for future reference we could have paused for three minutes and you could have fully charged your AirPods keep that in mind hey mal the show goes on we don't we don't we don't no bruce breaks. No easy days, no breaks. I love the attitude, as always with you. I love the hustle and the commitment. It was a pleasure to be here with you tonight. Thank you for sharing my Pashourke, you know, like you said, we were together for the Lamar pick. You've been a part of these

really formative draft experiences for me. I'll cherish it. I am disappointed that you knew we'd be on Zoom and you didn't wear a lightweight jacket, even though you were going to be in your home. I had, no, I just did so on a news day. I wore a jean jacket. Yeah, well, what about this? I don't have to wear it. I don't have, you and producer Craig aren't, well, I'm wearing a t-shirt. It's all good. All right. If you say so. I don't know how well that attitude will serve you in the, in the second and third rounds tomorrow night. But I look forward to tracking the rest of the draft with you, Kev, and reassessing all of our winner picks after we see how the rest of the rounds go. Okay. So we will be back on Sunday to

recap everything. Mallory would back, Danny Kelly, the Dark Night. I, I, Jason Gowler actually came up with this. The great god, Danny Kelly. Oh. So we're going to float that out there. He'll be joining us. He'll have graded like a god all weekend. He'll be joining us. So it'll be really good.

So keep it right here. And we're going to follow show on the Linger Podcast Network.