The Ringer NFL Show - The Biggest Trend in the NFL (and in L.A.) | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 252)

Episode Date: April 5, 2018

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark discuss the monster deal that sent Brandin Cooks to Los Angeles (07:15) and the factors that have led the Rams to make high-profile moves (07:15). They wrap up the show by handing out awards for the best trade (29:45), the worst trade (34:00), and the trade they most want to see (38:45). You can find the official Ringer merch store here: http://bit.ly/ringershop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Robert Mays here. On today's Ringer NFL show, we're diving into the biggest trend of this NFL offseason. Trades. We'll discuss some of the more recent deals, what's caused this flurry of moves, and which teams made the best decisions. As always, we're brought to you by the Ringer podcast network, where there are a ton of great shows for you. I'm not saying this because he's my boss.

The Bill Simmons podcast has been killing it lately with guests. Last week, Bill talked to Al Pacino and Barry Levinson. Like, that really happened. And on Wednesday, he sat down with Jeff Goldblum. Both of those conversations are as good as you'd want them to be. So please check them out and make sure to subscribe to the Bill Simmons podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's also Masters Week. And what better way to get you through the week than with Shackhouse?

My favorite podcast here at the Rimmer. I'm wearing a Shackhouse hat. Jim Cunningham, our producer is also wearing a Shackhouse hat. We didn't plan that. We just love the pod so much. Jeff Shackleford and House are at the Masters. Bill Simmons will be joining them on the pod. he's down there with his dad and his nephew and Joe House.

And so it'll be a really fun ringer crew down there this week. And I can't wait to see what they come up with. Yeah, I mean, I'm very excited. I was already watching on my computer today. It's going to be a fun week. Also, please go to the ringer.com to check out some great stuff from this week. John Gonzalez spent some time with Victor Oladipo and Pacers. Ben Lindberg wrote about how baseball stats are still so heavily dependent on video.

And I got to write about Quentin Nelson, which was predictably fun. So please go check all of that out. and so much more at the ringer.com. All right, let's get to the show. To the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Robert Maze, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, nice to be back with you, bud. I was on a pretty cool trip last week for a draft story

that everyone would read soon, but I'm happy to be back with you. So you heard about Quentin Nelson this week. You described the idea that you were in a coffee shop cackling with delight every time you saw him. Yes. Take me through that process. What were people staring at you? Do you think you were going to be removed from the coffee shop at any point?

It didn't happen that often, but it was more so that I'd get quiet for a little while, and then he'd do something, and I would have an audible outburst. There would be a play. There was one play. I think I described it as like a shark eating a seal. That's when him on defensive back when he's pulling against Georgia, where he pulled around, and he just launched the defensive back in midair. I mean, the guy was airborne for like two seconds.

And you see that stuff. I play with a lot of, like, I play with an all-American high. high school offensive lineman and you that was his tape but this was against like tiny schools as a high school kid this is a like a very high level college football player playing against a team that went to the national championship game and sending their dudes into orbit it just doesn't happen very often i was talking about this with jeff schwartz a little bit online today i don't remember orlando pace i was too young and joe thomas would probably be the other guy in this conversation quentin else's the best college guard i've ever seen i mean he's the best college offensive alignment i think

I've ever watched since I've been really paying attention. That's saying something because there aren't a lot of good offensive linemen right now in college. So it's amazing to see when you see a force of nature like that, it's quite a sight. And the thing is, we have guys that blow people up all the time. You know,

Garrett Bowles had a nice tape last year in terms of really manhandling people. But Nelson's just such a complete player. He's so in control. He's really a perfect prospect. I mean, that word gets thrown around too much. around this time of year when people are getting excited about players. But I do think he's that good.

So yeah, go check it out if you want to. I mean, it's really just me nerd and out for like 1500 words and getting very excited. Where does he go in your opinion? Well, I think that that's just the conversation we were having last show when we were discussing the Jets trade

and just kind of how it affects the rest of the top 10, right? So as these quarterbacks move up and let's say hypothetically, like Buffalo goes to six, which seems like it could happen. Sure. Then you have probably four quarterbacks go. in the top six picks. And that means that he's right there for a team like Tampa Bay or Chicago if,

I mean, if there, he's available. So I think that the Colts could take him at six if they stay. It doesn't seem like they would do that. It just feels like they want more picks. And that pick is still going to be useful if the Broncos don't take a quarterback. I kind of like that Colts pick, though.

Hey, they need a guy like that. They have for a long time. I just really want him to end up in Chicago. I mean, that's just the thing that I just have my eyes set on is that he just fits in perfectly. His college offensive lineman is the bear's offensive lineman. I mean, that is the one spot on that offense where they could seriously use an upgrade. I mean, the right tackle situation isn't great.

The Colt should spend all of their resources on making sure that Andrew Luck lives to 35. And Quinn Nelson would help that, yes. He's, I was looking at some of the measurements yesterday. He's like 35-inch arms. He could easily play tackle. I think that's a dumb. I think purposely making him worse is stupid, but he's just built like just a wall. Like he's a massive human being.

Even just talking about him, I get excited. But we want to hold off on that for just a little bit longer. So before we get into that stuff, we wanted to talk about what has been the defining trend of this offseason. And that is traits. You know, we've seen them happen at a clip that's never been a reality in the NFL before. And there have been different types of traits. So we're going to talk about all that.

We're going to talk about some of the deals that have happened, why they're happening, some of the ones we like best, everything else. I mean, Kevin, I think that we both figured because of some of the things that started to emerge last year with good teams, that maybe we'd see more trades. But I don't think I ever imagined it would happen at this rate. Sure. So I sort of did. And it starts with, I remember doing a video right after the Brock Osweiler trade. And I said that this was sort of the unofficial kickoff of a way. of, and we're going to get into all the factors in a second because there's a million of them.

But one of just the most simple is you have GMs who are ready to think outside the box. You have people like, you know, people who are like Paul D. Podesta who say what you will about him and what the Browns have done the last couple of years, but he's at least going to think about things in a different way. They're going to be aggressive. They're going to be young. And I think that aside from the salary cap stuff, aside from all of, again, the stuff we're going to get into in a second. I think the biggest single factor, the reason the trigger is being pulled so often is is you just have this influx of GMs who aren't afraid. Because I think a lot of times, if you look at the generation of GMs 10, 15 years ago, there were just a lot of guys who was happy to be in the

job. They were just pro-personnel guys or college scouts who got elevated. And they said, I'm just going to stay in this. I met them. And I talked to them. And I was surprised at how often they would say in 2012 or 2013, you know, this is how we've always done it or this is how, you know, and there's still some of that in the NFL. But I think overall you're seeing a sea change where it's younger aggressive general managers who are going to say, you know what, I'm just going to do things differently. And that was helped along by the salary cap and all of those things. But yeah, I sort of saw this coming. So before we get into that, let's start with the most recent kind of blockbuster trade that happened. And that's the deal that the Rams made for branding cooks.

So a year after the Patriots trade a first round pick to get Brandon Cooks, the Rams, do something similar. Obviously, there's a fourth rounder involved there. It's not as high. But the Patriots move up. They trade the 20th. The Patriots get the 23rd pick, I believe. And that's, so they traded the 30th pick last year.

They get the 23rd this year for a guy that is now on his expiring contract, and it's a fifth year option, so he's making a ton more. Right. I mean, it feels like the Pats did pretty well here. And it's interesting. So I think there are a lot of things to unpack. One, good Lord, the Rams are going after it. Yeah.

I mean, it is absurd, the degree to which they're like, we are pushing every single chip in the middle of the table. I was sad that I couldn't find a gif of Teddy KGB splashing the pot from Rounders because that's essentially what Les Sneed is doing right now. He's just being a real asshole about it too and just like, nope, you know what? I'm going to make a mess of this. And it's fun. I mean, I can't remember a team.

doing this in this kind of way. Yeah. You know, the Eagles did a good job last year of kind of filling out the margins of their roster when they were a kind of a fringe team. But this is not, that's not what the Rams are doing. There's no margins of the roster thing happening.

And they traded for two all pro corners. They signed in Dama Kinsu, and they traded a first round pick for Brandon Cooks. You know, this isn't kind of tempered team building. This is like we are taking the biggest swing imaginable. So I think that this is the first, I don't know, would you call it head scratching move in the Rams off season? So you like it less than I do.

Okay. So if you look at the value that they were able to get and the flexibility that they were able to get from the other pieces they got this off season. I have loved their offseason in a lot of respects. I love Marcus Peters. And I love Akeep Taleb. And I like Sue on a one-year deal where you can get out of it if it's a problem. them or you can, you know, extend them, whatever. When you're doing what they're doing, one year girls are okay.

They're trying to win the Super Bowl. Yes. Yes. So my question is this. You're trading a first round pick and we'll get into the value of that. But you're going to extend them maybe or you're going to. That's the thought. I don't think you cannot extend him after trading a first round pick for.

Right. And so, I mean, I just generally, I don't know if trading a first round pick for now a guy you're going to have on a big contract is all that smart of an idea. I think they were able to get incredible value and incredible flexibility with a lot of their defensive parts. I would question this a little bit. So this is more or less, I think, wanting to give the guy an extension after having a month of one year deal. Obviously, there's some different elements to it because of injury, but this is like essentially what the Eagles did with Alshan last year, right? Yeah. So we got that $11 million contract. He's on it and then they sign him. But the Eagles didn't have to give him a first round pick.

that's kind of what I'm thinking here is it's a lot to give up just to sign a guy to a really big contract. So I think they wanted Watkins and they wanted to bring Watkins back and they got priced out of Watkins. And I was talk I kind of was debating with some people the other day after the trade. I don't think in that offense, Brandon Cooks is appreciably better than Sammy Watkins. I think, and this is more about- I totally agree with you. One of those people you were talking to was me. Yeah, that's how I feel about it.

And it's a couple different things. the conversation started about Jared Goff's value fantasy-wise. So it's actually their statistical production for the offense. And would it be better with Brandon Cooks than it wasn't Sammy Watkins? And people arguing like, well, Sammy Watkins has hurt all the time. Sam Watkins played 15 games last year. You're not getting more than 15 games on tiny little Brandon Cooks. So I think that, I mean, he's played it before, but I'm just saying that's a reasonable thing to expect for Brandon Cooks playing 15 games.

So I think that overall their offense isn't necessarily better than it was a year ago with Watkins. And I know that there's a health concern, but he was on the field for the entire season last year. And if you want to point to how many catches in yards Sammy Watkins had, I would love for you to go watch some tape and see how many times two guys followed Sammy Watkins and Cooper Cup was wide open. Because it happened all the time. Jim, did we just have an earthquake? I didn't feel it. I felt it.

I think we did. The downside of living here is just so focused. on producing this podcast. He doesn't know when natural disasters are happening. Okay. I'm swiping on Tinder. Oh, wow. Wow.

Jim. Oh, no. So I agree with you. You know, it was interesting. So Brandon Cooks, the reason to get him is he's fast and he can stretch the field. You know, it's interesting with some of the next gen stats I was looking at just, you know, I remember. I was talking to the guy, Joe Lombardi. And remember that guy, the offensive coordinator for the lions?

I think. Yeah, of course. Is he the Saints quarterback's coach now? Yeah, he's somewhere in that next. And I remember, I remember asking him, I said, when you get the trackable data, you can do what with it? And he said, it's going to let us sort of get actual data on things we've always suspected. And so a good example is saying, okay, Brandon Cooks actually stretches the field. What does he do?

Because we think we know. And I'm looking at the data here. First of all, his targeted. Air Yards, Cooks is 15.3, which is in the top 10 in the NFL. But there are guys, I mean, Paul Richardson is 15. And Paul Richardson gets almost the exact amount of separation on his routes and almost the exact same actually more cushion from his defensive backs. And I don't think, I mean, obviously Paul Richardson signed with the Redskins and is going to be on a marginally big contract. But I mean, I would say giving up a first round pick and paying cooks

what you're paying him is going to be a lot more than a Paul Richardson or a Marquis Goodwin who has similar numbers in a lot of ways. I think he gets one full yard more cushion than Brandon Cooks. I understand that Cooks has the production there. I also think I want to point this out, by the way, I mean, just circumstantially, the Patriots and the Saints, two of the best quarterbacks in NFL history, two of the best coaches in the NFL have both moved on. from him. And so I think that if you were, if you were a must start, I think you wouldn't be

seeing him get shipped twice in two years. I think that's fair. I think he is, his skill set is limited, but he is a really good downfield threat. I mean, there's no denying that. And I think that Sammy Watkins has some more athletic ability. And if you're the Rams, I understand it from a thought process point of view. You want that piece because your offense really did rely on everything working in concert last year. And having that field stretcher that can really open things up, that's that was the chess piece you were missing now when Watkins was gone. You needed that again in order for your offense to function in the same way it did a year ago. But I don't know if a first round pick and an $8 million contract and then standing the guy to a $14 million a year deal after this is that's the price that you should be paying for that element.

You're right. I need to bring something up here. Targeted air yards, okay? Yes. For receivers. There is a player who is a full three-y-yard. Excuse me, two and a half yards better downfield or catches the ball downfield in the air. Two and a half yards more than any other player in the NFL.

Do you know who it is? Just last season? Just last season. You're not going to get this. I probably am not. It's J.J. Nelson. That actually makes sense. It does.

I mean, I wouldn't have guessed that, but it definitely makes sense. Will Fuller a second. And the average cushion for Nelson is 6.3. the average separation Albert Wilson Led the NFL in separation Are you excited about that? I'm excited that he's playing on a Dolphins team

that has made a lot of curious decisions in the last couple of months Six in the NFL in separation Ted Ginn what a sad story You get the separation He's don't get the catches Ted Gid was really good last year He had a nice season

Danny was right Danny was right He was the Cook's replacement down there Hey there you go It's always cycled in and out, man. And Sammy Watkins was the Albert Wilson replacement. Now, Brandon Cook's the Sammy Watkins replacement. You've got to follow it.

There was, in fact, an earthquake, by the way. Oh, good. Okay, that's great. Coming up, we're going to chat about some of the Rams' other monster trades and discuss why their wheeling and dealing ways represent a new reality in the NFL. But first, let's take a quick break. We have exciting news for all you ringer heads out there.

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slash shop to pre-order your official ringer merchandise today. You can also find the link to the ringer web store in the podcast description. All right, Kevin, the Rams made some ton of high profile moves this spring. Marcus Peters, a keep to leave. We talked about them and moves to ship guys out of town. I mean, Algoogle tree goes to the Giants. Robert Quinn goes to Miami. So rather than break down whether or not those deals were good,

bad. We'll probably talk about some of them. Let's talk about why they could happen. The factors behind all of them and just how we've never really seen an offseason quite like this. You mentioned in the open about how there are some GMs willing to take some risks, think outside the box a little bit. Outside of that, what would you say is the number one thing that jumps to mind for you of what the environmental factors are that can create this? There's a one A and a one beat because you can't have the aggressive young GMs taking those chances unless you have the atmosphere for. What's the atmosphere for? Well, since 2013, the cap has risen at least $10 million every year. I think it's gone up about $50 million in that time period.

Well, okay, there's a couple of things happening. Number one, rookies got cheaper. So you have a ton of guys making $1.4, $1.5 million, even though they're at elite production, okay? Superstar value has not risen because players have not reset the market. Antonio Brown has not said, I'm going to make $30 million a year because I deserve it. A quarterback has not done that. I mean, even Kirk Cousins getting the guaranteed deal, that sort of resets that paradigm, but it doesn't really reset how much of the cap

goes to a superstar or a star or a star and quarterback. The quarterback's not making a higher percentage than it was three years ago. And so you can basically do anything under the cap. The cap is not real. And so that's the biggest thing now is that you can say we're going to take on these salaries or we're going to get

rid of these salaries and take the dead money. You can kind of do anything. And so it's become a little bit more like the NBA in that sense because you can just say, okay, we're going to do this for football reasons and we can take on these contracts or whatever it is. And so the cap explains everything. I wrote this in December. The rising cap explains every single thing about the NFL, whether that's, even if that's, you know, okay, you say, oh, you know, the Patriots, how does the rising cap explain the Patriots? Well, Tom Brady makes as much as Ryan Tannenhill this year and so they can jam their entire roster with with mid-level second contract veterans. That's how they win every year. I mean, there's a million

examples of that. Everything in the modern NFL can be explained with how much money there is to spend. So let's talk about a couple of the deals that fit that description. Okay. Deals for guys that are not on rookie contracts and are decently expensive. I think the ones that fit that JPP. Yep. Robert Quinn. Yeah. And I think the Jaredville, your contract fits that one with the one that, I mean, that trade went so under the radar. He's in Denver now. I mean, that contract fits that paradigm. And the Cook's contract does not. You know, he's making eight. million, but that's a different sort of trade that we're going to talk about. So those are the sorts of deals to me that are a little bit newer with the cap because a guy

like Robert Quinn, if they didn't want him, they may have cut him. You know, he is a million something on his dead money on his deal, whatever. That's what would happen. Cap casualty would take place because teams are not going to give up a draft pick for a guy to pay him on a second contract that his original team does not want. So the teams have been able to kind of just absorb contracts they wouldn't have otherwise. The type of trade that interests me more is the opposite of that. It's teams trading for guys on rookie deals because they're still cheap, even though you have to give up draft capital to get them.

This started last year in earnest when the Patriots traded for cooks and then the Eagles made those deals. They traded for Timmy Jernigan. They traded for Ronald Darby. Those are contracts that you're paying this certainty tax in a way. You're giving up draft capital in order to get a player that you think is just a sure thing. And I think two things inform that. One, as teams get more analytically focused, even though they say they aren't, I feel like it's become more of something teams will be able, they admit more that they don't know what they're doing in the draft. The draft shoot.

And I think teams are hoarding picks and draft capital in different ways than they used to. They're not going after it and just saying, I can't trade a first round pick or something. I can't trade a second round pick for someone. And they're doing it for players for two years of them because in their minds, it's safer to have two years of that guy that they know is an NFL player. And I think that because teams like Philly and New England that were being, they had so much success doing that, that creates trends. When teams have done well with it, more teams are going to do it.

So Kevin Demas says Sloan. I wasn't at Sloan, but I saw some of his comments on YouTube afterwards. Just random YouTubeing. Just YouTube, yeah. Rams president, Kevin Demoff, is the real YouTube star. So he said something I found interesting, which is essentially that the rookies

takes them about three years now to get where they need to be. Because of the way teams practice, you know, what, 14 padded practices during the regular season, you're just not getting those reps like you used to. And I think that when you have that viewpoint, then you go, okay,

well, we're just going to be able to get the known commodities, get them for two years while they're still cost controlled, worry about the extensions later. But they'd rather do that than spend the three years. If they really believe that they can win the Super Bowl this year, and I do believe that, then a first round pick is not that valuable if it really does take three years to get where they need to be. So I think it's a timing issue. I think the CBA explains a lot. I mean, I just think that if the Rams have that viewpoint, that explains a lot about them acquiring veterans. How about counterpoint, though, look at what the Saints did last year. Oh, yeah.

Oh, no, no. I agree with you. I'm just letting you know their viewpoint, their worldview. And trying to bank on a draft class like the Saints is a silly thing. I mean, we're not going to see those come along very often. That may be a once-in-a-generation type class. But I do think that those classes are more readily available because more rookies are getting chances. You know, we talked a lot about how the NFL's middle class has kind of shrunk a little bit.

And that's why there's so many guys playing on rookie contracts early because teams aren't paying guys $5 million a year to play those positions. So I think that those classes are going to be out there a little bit more often, maybe not to that extent, but because you're going to have a rookie class that says, all right, all of our first and second round picks are playing. Right. And there can just be this kind of lightning strike similar to the one that New Orleans had last year. I am in agreement with you. Listen, let me tell you the secret of the NFL Robert. This is a unifying secret and don't tell anybody. Just keep between us.

Sounds good. The key is to have good players. No one listens to this, right? This is just me and you talking. This is it. Jim just wants to listen in. The key is to get good players. So if you can get the rookies, you can get Marshaun Latimore, do it.

You can get Alvin Kamara, do it. And if you think that it's veterans, do it. I mean, it's just that there's a couple of ways to, to, I mean, there's many ways to skin a cat, right? And I just think that we can reverse engineer all we like and say teams won because they did this, this, this, and this. Or teams had viewpoints of this, this, and this. But I think at the end of the day, you know, a good, cheap rookie contract is a great thing to have.

And also, so is an $8 million guy who plays an elite level because there's just a lot of ways to win in the NFL. And by the way, I mean, obviously what the Rams are doing is acquiring these guys while they have golf on that cheap contract. Yeah, absolutely. But I think that we may be going back the other way a little bit because I think that teams have had success with this kind of plan of trading for these guys on rookie contracts and giving up draft capital to do it. Like a good example for this. The Patriots just did exactly what they did with Cooks with Danny Shelton. He's making $2 million this year and $11.7 next year, which is a lot for a defensive tackle. So that's what teams did last year.

I think trading a third round pick for Danny Shelton is one thing. I think trading a first round pick for Brandon Cooks when he's on that 50-year option is a different thing. So I feel like teams may go a little bit too far in this, okay, draft capital isn't as important anymore. I'd rather have the guy that can help me now. So I think that's always what happens, right? You have these emerging trends. Teams are a little cautious about the mid-first, and then it seems like, fuck it, I'm doing it because it's already worked. So finding the middle ground is sometimes difficult.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, again, I mean, I don't, there's no way to sit here and say that is the right path or the Saints is the right path or the Packers who didn't go into free agency for, you know, except twice basically in a six-year period is the way to go. I mean, I just, I know that this is this is not a hot take situation, but I mean, we'll see. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what else to say about that specific team building thing. I mean, I know that a team can be built. Here's what I know. A team can be built through trades in free agency.

And that wasn't true five, six years ago before the cap started rising. Yeah, I agree. I just did not envision this version of the trades. I thought that what happened with Philly and New England last year would continue to happen. It has to some degree. You know, the Shelton trade is like that, the Peters trade is like that. But the deals for, like, Taleb and everything else, that is just a type of trading that I didn't think NFL teams were daring enough to make. and it seems like all the money floating around has made them exactly that.

You know, I don't know if I've shared this, but I heard a theory a while ago, and I kind of like it, and I kind of stole on it as my own, that because coaches and GMs get fired so quickly now, and that wasn't true, five, six, seven years ago, the coaching carousel is accelerated. Because that's happened, and this was from someone in the league who told me this.

because that's happened GMs are actually less scared and coaches are less scared because they're like listen we're going to get fired in three years anyway who cares that's a great point and you don't want to draft guys you know and if you're going to take four years five years to develop

when you're going to be gone anyway right I mean that makes total sense the teams are going to take chances now right exactly and there's so few teams who want to play the long game and I think the long game can work but we've had that debate before I mean I do think that the long game takes three years in the NFL is it's not going to take it

It works when you have the Mike McCarthy Supreme Court Justice contract. And you have Aaron Rogers. That's also an important factor. Thank you. Aaron Rogers is pretty important to the long game because he's going to make anybody look good. Yeah. It's all right. So I just think that there's some of that where it's like a lot of guys are just saying,

screw it. We're just going to go all in. We're going to go all in. Because, I mean, someone was saying this the other day, but a couple weeks ago I was talking to someone, the owner's meeting. someone in the league and they were saying, you know, man, Sean McVeigh's got it set up for life, huh? And it's like, there's a lot of guys we thought had it set up for life.

And then like three years later, they're just fired. And obviously, Sean McVeigh is a great coach. He's a great crew in L.A., but I mean, this idea that now he's going to have some sort of, like you said, Supreme Court Justice appointment where he's just going to be able to ride on the laurels of his rookie year. I mean, he could be fired in three years. Who knows? Do you remember Chip Kelly's first game in the NFL?

It wasn't first season. It was his first drive. Yes. I mean, like the first game they played, that Monday night game, I'll never remember. I'll never forget Chris Ryan's reaction, first of all. He thought that like the second coming had happened. Like this was a religious experience for both football fans and Eagles fans. And Chip Kelly was gone in two years.

Obviously, there are factors behind that. But these are the sort of factors that fuck things up. there are so many coaches who have been ruined because they get power hungry later. And I don't think Sean McVeigh is necessarily like this. I think that he's honestly been defined in his first 18 months by an ability to defer his ego and let other people take over when it's appropriate. But say in two years, if they are like, all right, do you want to run the roster as well? And he's like, oh, yeah, sure.

That's how things fall apart. You never know what's going to happen. And I think saying stuff like that is just silly to me. I mean totally and so what I'm saying is you have to be aggressive because the league moves fast I mean think about Josh McDaniels Yes McDaniels had one bad year and kind of actually like a jerk and then got fired from a job that everyone was raving about his his work is rookie year and now I don't think he'll ever have another one unless it's in New England I think it's gonna be in New England I mean I'm sure it will but it's still just bizarre Yep all right before we get out of here let's uh let's hand out some uh some some awards yeah

superlatives, some of the best and worst from what has happened this spring. So, Kevin, why don't you go first? Let's start with your best trade of the last couple months. So I already talked about it. The idea that for mid-round picks, essentially, the Rams are able to acquire two of the best cornerbacks in the NFL. And with Talib specifically, that was a financial decision on the Broncos part. 100%.

It was not. And again, that's why those are the sort of trades that happen that don't happen before. That didn't happen before. That do happen now. The financial decision trade. Right. And so that's a really important thing. Taleb had not lost a step, or maybe he has, but it wasn't a significant step. He's a very good player. He's a very good player. He's going to a defensive coordinator. He's been under before. Marcus Peters, again, is one of my favorite guys in the NFL. And obviously, you pair him with Sue. One of the things I want to address very quickly, and there have been some reports both ways on this. and I sort of want to clear it up from my perspective. This idea that the Rams could have a volatile locker room, I think, is way overblown.

I don't think, though, I don't think that they're, they're, I don't think those guys have personalities that are going to destroy the locker room. I think that they have big personalities. I don't think Sue has never been a problem in the locker room. If he's talked to anybody. Yeah, it's exactly what I was going to say. if anything, he's quiet and reserved in the locker room and doesn't really talk to anybody. Although the one time I went over to his house,

Ziggy Ansah was on his couch the whole time. Maybe they just don't talk. He's just there. I don't remember. Someone was playing FIFA. I assume it was Ziggy Ansza. Well, they both love soccer. Yeah, no, I know.

But it may have been just someone else in the house. Anyway, no, no, what I'm saying is that obviously it has a, it has the potential to go south just because when you have a lot of stars on one team, there can be some egos, but I don't think that's their personality specifically that would cause a downfall. That's not, I agree with you. I think the concern is more about what this sort of team building tells the rest of the guys in your locker room.

You know, the Eagles were the exact opposite of this, right? They went out of their way so far to resign their in-house guys after Chip had been wheeling and dealing for a couple years. And I think that really settled the locker room. If you play well, you're going to be here. People loved Alec Ogletree on that team. And even if that's overblown, it's more about saying, we're going to ship out the guys,

even if they're good people in this locker room, to get better. I think that's a worthwhile effort. I mean, I think that's a worthwhile thing to do. But I still think it does have ramifications. And that's where I'd be a little bit worried about it. Okay. The other trade I liked a lot, just from a value standpoint,

Jason McCordy for a sixth round pick. He's my number one. Yeah, for sure. I think that's the best value that any team got trade-wise. There were some others that I really liked, but I think McCordy is a starting corner and to get him for a sixth-round pick and just be able to plug him in

when he's making like $2 million or something like that. And the fact that Malcolm Butler just got 10 and you got a guy who's not that much worse than Malcolm Butler, I think that's a trade you're going to make every single time. The other one that is still just a head-scratcher for me and the fact we're letting the Eagles do this is so silly. Tori Smith was making $5.5 million this year from the Eagles.

Guess what? He was not going to make that. They were going to cut him if they could not find a trade partner. And rather than get like a sixth round pick for him, they got a 23-year-old cornerback. I know Daryl Worley has had his growing pains in the NFL, and he has some issues. He still is an NFL corner that is very early in his career.

And they got him for a guy they were going to cut anyway. I mean, those are the sorts of deals that the Eagles have made the last couple years that you just wonder how they're able to do it. It's a lot of value out there, man. Yeah, I know. If you're looking for it constantly, you're going to find it. All right, what's your worst one? I do not, and I don't want anyone to think that the actual player evaluation is off here because I really like Alex Smith. I just think that signing Alex Smith to a $94 million contract.

The contract is what bothered me not to trade value. investment. I mean, that's what you have to look at. I think that trading for Alex Smith is an inspired move in a vacuum. I think Alex Smith is really good. I think that the development of his deep ball last year was notable. And I think that he will be good.

However, I mean, just signing a guy to a mega contract like that when you're giving, essentially the only way to defend letting Kirk Cousins go, especially when you could have gotten him for much cheaper a few years ago.

The only justification is saying we think the quarterback bubble is too big and it should burst and we're just going to go with rookie contracts from now on because that's a legitimate way to build a team is just have your quarterback making $4 or $5 million, you know, instead of $24 or $25 million and build a team around him. That's a very good way to build a team. But to get rid of Kirk Cousins and then replace him for a guy, what is this? total isn't it in guarantees didn't Smith get like $7 million

less than cousins 71 let's look because I was trying to look at his old contract 71 million so he got 13 million less that's a ton of money that's so much money that's so much money for Alex Smith

here's the thing we talk we say this all the time on this podcast nobody's making you do it Alex Smith did what is dead cap in 2019 is but I Obviously, you're not going to cut him in 2018, but his dead cap is $55 million. His dead cap next year is $42 million. That's fun.

Again, nobody made you do it. He had one more year left on his deal. What if he's just awful this year? I feel like, you know, we talk all the time about that support system in Kansas City is really good for quarterbacks. He probably wouldn't look as good elsewhere. I think Jake Root is a really good coach. He's 33 years old. That's more of my concern than if he falls off.

Alpha Cliff, you know, in terms of whether or not they were hiding his deficiencies. I'm more worried about signing a 30-year-old quarterback to a three-year contract. It's not like signing Aaron Rogers to a three-year contract. Alex Smith is fine. God. I mean, so listen, putting Alex Smith on your offense is a good idea. Giving up that much is a bad idea. Kenneth Fuller is a good player.

Yeah. I like him. Yeah. All right. Who's your worst trade? Mine, again, it's circumstantial similar to yours, even though I don't think he's quite the player used to be. I think the dolphins trading for Robert Quinn is a very, very curious thing to me. I agree. The dolphins don't have a lot of money. You know, obviously they have more after

not signing Jarvis Slandry and not having him on the franchise side, whatever. The dolphins are flushed with cap space. And that's a position on their roster where they actually have some guys. They drafted Charles Harris in the first round last year, and they gave Andre Branch a really sizable contract. They also still have Cameron Wake. I know that he may be gone, and he is nearing the end just in terms of age and whatever else. But you only have two years of Robert Quinn. It's not like he has this long-term contract, and it's a top-of-the-market contract. He's making like $11 million, and he's not $11 million-year player anymore.

So in terms of positional fit, financial flexibility, and everything else, I just don't like it. I know they didn't give up much. I know it's a fourth-rounder, and they're going to swap late rounds, but it still just didn't make sense to me in terms of overall resource allocation. Yeah, I agree. And the Dolphins off season. It's just weird. It's so bizarre. I can't even...

I think Josh Sitton is a really good contract. I think that's the type of stuff you should do. I don't like a lot of the other stuff. Why? Why with the Albert Wilson? Like, it just, I don't know. I don't know. I guess you lose angry.

Are you okay? The dolphins are just so frustrating, man. I mean, like, we want the Patriots to stop winning the vision every single year, and then the teams just give it to them. I that's a huge part of the Patriot success the last couple years and by last couple years. I mean 15 years Yeah. There's never been a serious The bills have had no idea what they're doing The dolphins have made mistake after mistake and the Jets have been the Jets

I mean it's not Just similar to like the Atlanta Braves during their during their streak of what 13 straight division titles something like that. Yeah the Mets weren't very good. The Mets were not good. The Marlins would wake up and win the World Series every couple years, though. All right, let's end here on a little more of a positive note.

What's a trade you want to see? I mean, we could do a hundred of these. It would be an hour-long podcast. Let's limit it to one or two. I just need to tell you my master's DFS league. I just checked it. At the beginning of the podcast, I've lost 75% of my winning since the podcast began. I didn't even want to know what happened. Hey, buddy, I'm not telling you how to live your life. I'm just say maybe you should

stop playing golf DFS. This is not, it continues to go, it's going down. As I stare at it. That's great. As I stare at it. You've probably, you got to play the lesser known events to win big. It's fine. Okay. Odell Beckham. I want to

see him on another team. Let's just get them out. Just get them out. I know it's not going to happen in Los Angeles. Can we get them on the Niners? I don't think they give up that much. No. But I, if they were, really motivated. You don't know this. But if they're leaking

the stuff because they just need to get him the hell out of town and Dave Gettelman is somehow offended by O'Dell Beckham's existence, a one in a third. I mean, that was the Adam Schaefter reported price. Do the Niners do a one and a third? Knowing they have some draft capital? You have to resign

him essentially. I mean, in order to do that, you like, give him an extension immediately, be my assumption. Yeah. I don't know. I'll say I'd want to do that. I kind of want to say I would do it, but that's a lot to give up, man. I don't know. He's that good.

I guess he is that good. I would do it. God, it'd be so fun. That office would be incredible to watch. That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. Pierre Garsohn, Odo Beckham, Marquise Goodwin, Jerich McKinn,

Kyle Hughes-Check, Greg Kittle, there's just so much athleticism among that group and talent. I mean, it's a really cool collection of pieces. It's not even worth considering. I'm just going to be disappointed when it doesn't happen. He's going to end up like the fucking dolphins.

I know. He's going to end up catching 74 balls from Ryan Tannahill. Oh, that's so depressing, but it's so true. Oh, my God. Mine is, so the one I want to see, this is a smaller one, obviously. But I think that it would make sense for a team to call and see what the Browns wanted for Duke Johnson. He's a guy that I think is a really useful player.

And so much of his usage last year was in the slot. And it just feels like Landry is going to chew into that so much. He's on the final year of his contract, new regime that did not draft him. There have been some rumblies that they want to resign him. But I also think that might be a way to kind of pump up the price if a team were to make a call about it. So he's a guy that I just feel like it would be worth calling. And the other one, we just mentioned his name.

I think if you're a contender, it would be worth seeing what they want for him. Cam Wake. That's not bad. I think if you're a team that needs past rush help, he is worth dealing for. Guy is still really good. I know he's old and he's had some injury issues, but I absolutely think that you should pick up a phone and make a call about him because, again, they have a glut at that position. So it just feels like it's worth it, man. I mean, the guy is making $8.65 million this year.

he is not an $8.65 million pass rusher that's a matter of age and contract but if you just want him for a year if you're a team that's close you know you should try to trade for him the ramps

they need another redrusher you know what is there they're not a draft picks but they should try to trade for him what is their cap space right now I actually don't know the answer to that I can look they have 8 million

that's 25th in the league the Eagles have 31 thousand dollars no the rams are three million dollars over the cap i'm looking i'm looking at over the cap dot com they're three million dollars over well um the quint trade hasn't gone through yet i don't think okay it all of their players are they have two million and then top 51 cap space which is how it's calculated in the offseason spot track says they have eight but honestly it's none of this is real they're gonna restructure exactly i mean they have very little cap space is what we're trying to get at here these they're not going to get camera and wake

Probably not, but I would like to see him. Titans still have 42 million. I think a team should make a deal for him. I mean, if you think you're close, I absolutely think it's worth it. The Browns still have... Alcoagletree's dead cap money is $6.4 million. The Browns still have $71 million. Let's make some moves.

That's why they're not trading Duke Johnson. They can give them $15 million, not even blink an eye. Do you know who the oldest team in the league is? The Atlanta Falcons. I don't. The Atlanta Falcons. That's surprising, considering how, many young guys they played on defense the last couple years, but they are pretty old.

I mean, if you look at that offensive line, a lot of older guys, I mean, I guess the tackles aren't that old. I don't know. I mean, it's like almost 27 years. It's not like they're 50. And no team gets that old in the NFL anymore. All right, but is that all we got? That's it. All right. That's all we have for today. As always, thank you for joining us. We will be back next the week. Probably getting into some draft stuff. I think it's about that time. You think it's about that time? It is about that time. All right. Until then, thank you so much. much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys.