The Ringer NFL Show - The Bills’ Window Is Still Open, Big Coaching Revelations, and More Takeaways From Divisional-Round Weekend | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Sheil and Ben start the pod with some soothing words for Buffalo Bills fans after their team's loss to the Chiefs, and they share their instant reactions to the Titans hiring new head coach Brian Callahan. Next they visualize Jim Harbaugh on the Los Angeles Chargers sideline next season while shining a light on the Tampa Bay Bucs’ promising future (24:29). Sheil then shows us why Dak Prescott has a lucrative contract on the horizon, and Ben breaks down how Kyle Shanahan’s time management woes could spell trouble for the 49ers next weekend (41:08). They end the pod with their quick takes on some of the big coaching news around the league (1:01:32). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Two extra point. Take it. Shield Kapadia here. Join by Ben Solak. Divisional round. Weekend in the books, we've got four teams left. We've got three games left.

We've got two games coming up this weekend. We still got all kinds of head coach openings, not moving at a rapid pace stuff happening around the league. A very busy time. So we got lots to get to with our takes today. Benjamin Solac, what are you sipping on? Was that L tea? Was that a little hot chocolate?

What do we got? It's a homemade tea brew by my pal, Kiarra, and my bird mug. Very nice. I thought you'd be more excited about it. Never mind. I want to run over there. This is the first extra point taken, Shiel. I should say the posting game, the early week extra point taken.

Not being recorded late at night after a Monday night football game. Not being recorded early on a Tuesday because for some reason we couldn't do after Monday night football. We had to get up early and do it. This is being recorded at a regular hour of the day. So if you notice good takes, surprisingly elevated conversations and thoughts, just know it's because we are at a reasonable hour and it's a wonderful feeling. That could lead to worst takes. You know, sometimes the loopiness of a 2 a.m. or whatever helps us out.

But whatever. All right, here we go. Let's get to it. I'm up first today. So like I've got the extra point taken. So I will lead us off. And I'm going to lead us off with the game of the weekend. And I'm going to go to the loop.

losing team in that game. And I'm here to tell you that the bill's window is still wide open. This might sound like a very, you know, what is he talking about? Did he not watch that game? Has he not seen what's transpired over the last five years? That was another gut-wrenching loss. And so now you have all the takes firing off Sean McDermott is, Josh Allen that. They got to make drastic changes. I'm here to tell you that you don't need to buy into any of those things. Okay, this has been a heartbreaking stretch for the Buffalo Bills and their fan base. Like, you know me. I don't feel much emotion, but I was like feeling emotion watching the fans in the stands after that game.

You wrote about it beautifully, by the way, in the hot read. Everyone check that out on the ringer.com. But to have these teams be so close, you know, for a fan, it can make you question, why do I waste my time? Why do I waste my money? Why do I waste my emotional energy on sports? I could be doing something else with my life. If you're a Bill's fan, this is just like another one

that you're adding to the ledger year after year after year. However, the Buffalo Bills are not broken. They don't need to fire the whole coaching staff. This isn't about Josh Allen isn't able to win the big game. Okay, this is a team that over the last two years has lost one game by more than seven points.

And that's what? They played 35 game? How many games? It sounds right. He played 16 last year in the regular season, because the DeMar Hamlin game was canceled. So 16, 17, 17, 13, 33. 19.

So, yeah, 36 games. Yeah. And they've lost one by more than touchdown. Oh, man, that sounds good. Who beat them by more in a touchdown? The Bengals last year in the playoffs. Ah, there you go. That was the one, 24-10.

And if you're a Bill's fan, you're probably like, who cares? Shut up, loser. I don't go brag to my friends of other teams talking about how few games we've lost by more than seven points. I understand that. This team has gotten stung by bad luck, by randomness, by miscues. Listen, there are miscues in high leverage situations, but these are not things that require a big blowup.

And so I think it's good to look at NFL history here if you're a Bills fan and you're feeling down. Peyton Manning played eight seasons before the man got to a Super Bowl. I am old enough to remember this. We're all these conversations, hey, oh, Peyton Manning can't win the big one. You don't want Manning in the, all these things, the Peyton Manning. And then guess what? He eventually got there.

He eventually won one with the Colts and then one another one with the Broncos. Aaron Rogers played 18 seasons with the Packers and got to the Super Bowl one time. Okay. It is very hard. The stars need to align. The, you know, the Tom Brady careers, the Patrick Mahomes careers. These are on like a level of their own. They are the 1% of the 1% for everyone else.

included the all-time greats, which, by the way, Josh Allen has a chance to be, it's going to be very different. So this is a team that's going to keep being in the mix. Next year, Josh Allen is going to be 28 years old. They've got roster questions to answer, no doubt about it, but they've still got an offensive line running back, tight end, they're good, all those things.

And listen, one of these years, Bill's fans, the bounces are going to go your way. It doesn't seem like it now. You're going to break through. You might not get to it. You might not get three. It might not get for you. It might not be the career, the number of championships you hope for.

You're going to get one. And when that happens, you will remember all the misery and the heartbreak and the 13 seconds and the missed 41-yard field goal and the Stefan Diggs almost catch. And all these things you will remember about what it took to get there to that one championship and you will appreciate it even more. You will think of your loved ones. says, I wish they were here to see this. You will cry. You will hug your friends. You will be overcome with emotion. And Josh Allen will hoist a Lombardi trophy. It will happen. Again, you're

Bill's fan. You don't want to hear this right now. Okay. Those images in the fans yesterday, again, those were tough to watch. But I'm telling you, it's going to happen eventually. This is not a blow everything up. This is not a referendum on Josh Allen. This is not anything on Sean McDermott. It sucks to say, but you got to just keep plugging away, being in the mix, and one of these years, the ball's going to bounce your way. So there you go. I feel like I've been the Bill's Defender Solag from like the first day we started this podcast. I don't know how I got there. I really have no connection to the fine people of Western New York, but that is legitimately, authentically, how I feel. So there you go. Right. I was going to accuse you initially. I was going to be like,

this is Bill's cope. As someone who you were so close to cashing some amazing Bill's receipts I feel okay. They got to the divisional round. They were six and six when I said it or whatever. Your prediction was the bills, they're going to win the division and they did. And then you start the posties like, they're going to win the Super Bowl and they didn't get there.

So what's the new prediction? They'll win one eventually, right? That one you've been like cash at some point down the road. But no, I, the bill's window is really the most interesting thing to me because you're absolutely right. When you have a quarterback as talented as Josh Allen is, which this is always worthy of restating. dating. If Patrick Mahomes were wiped off the face of the earth and we looked at like

quarterbacking numbers from the last five years, you would not be able to make an argument that there was a quarterback in the league better than Josh Allen. You couldn't do it. Right now, I think Lamar is playing better than Josh. I think when Lamar is at his peak and Josh at his peak, I think there's a legitimate conversation. But if you look at like data over the last several seasons, again, if you just take Patrick Mahomes and put him on Mars, there is no question. The best quarterback on earth right now is Josh Allen. However, not only does Mahomes exist, he exists in the conference. And not only does he exist in the conference,

he's got a coach and he's got a defense, and then he's got the surrounding talent necessary to always be there in the playoffs. Just an unconscionable roadblock, just a mountain in your way. And it is so hard to constantly hope against that and lose. And so Alan is unbelievable. He's incredible. He's so talented.

Having Alan as your quarterback ensures that you are always in a Super Bowl window. With that said, Josh Allen hit the cap this year for $18.6 million show, right? I think that people always, you know, okay, like I got, you know, contract extension. He's super expensive right now. Alan's side's contract extension a couple of years ago, but you don't immediately become expensive because of the way these are structured. So he hit the cap for 18.6 this year.

It was 16.3 the year previous and 10.2 the year before that. Next season, he hits the cap for $43 million, right? That's the amount of space that he takes up. His numbers start to shoot up because his restructure bonuses are going to start to climb through the roof, right? They're going to start to really, really eat up space on the team. And he stays in like the 40 to like $60 million range for the next two years. The window stays open.

The margins get a lot slimmer. And that's what makes that like, it's actually wrong to say. That's not what makes these losses so disappointing. What makes these losses so disappointing is losing to Patrick Mahlerone's three times in the postseason. Like, no, no one's like, oh, no, the contract. That's not what makes them hurt. That's absolutely not the case.

But from a sober next day analysis, when we look at this as NFL analysts, what makes it particularly crushing is that they had a window in which Josh was dramatically underpaid for what he was providing them. And they spent tons of money, they spent tons of resources. They got a lot of good players in the building. And they did it largely correct and couldn't get the hay in the barn, couldn't get the ball across the line. Now you have to do it with like perfect drafting.

Now you have to do it with like excellent development and retaining coaches, the margins get a lot thinner around Josh because he starts to take up a lot more money. And so that really, I think, like, you're right to say the window is still open, but it does get tougher from here, which to tell a Bill's fan, hey, that was the easy stretch,

the hard stretches coming up. It's just terrible news. Yeah, a lot of it is with the older players on defense. I mean, Micahide, Jordan Poirier, Tradavius White coming off in Achilles, Von Miller signing. I mean, that's looking like one of the worst free agent signings of like the last five years,

given what they paid for him at that age and what he's given them. Offensively, I think they need a receiver, you know, maybe more than one. We'll see what happens with Stefan Diggs. I think Alan is able to elevate. You're right. I mean, it is going to be hard. I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I understand if you feel like you need some kind of refresh.

But sometimes you just like, I'm wearing this sweatshirt. It's, you know, is Michael Jordan looking at all these basketball players from the 90s. They're just looking at him. and they're mad because they played in an era where he played, and that not ruined their legacy, but altered their legacy because they could not beat him. And so now everyone can point to them and say, well, you don't have a ring.

And that is part of what's that. I will say this, though, like, these have not, like Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes is awesome. I don't know how much we're going to talk about Patrick Mahomes today. We'll definitely talk about him on Friday. Obviously, this is an all time. Like, this is the greatest football player I've ever seen.

I'm comfortable saying that right now. these are coin flip games like bad like they're not killing them like this one two years ago i mean these are games that they're in fourth quarter four minutes to play they're right there the game is there for them and they haven't been able to do it so uh i think it's got still listen we'll be doing this podcast like you've said before at some point hopefully in the in the far future at some point one of these seasons we can say they've done it but uh bill's fans i feel for this is Sometimes, and I know there are probably fans of other teams saying, oh, give me a break. Like, at least they're winning games and playing in big games.

And there is some truth to that. But it's a special kind of pain when you know you legitimately have a chance and you feel like you have one of the best players and you still don't do it. Like that's different than just having, you know, like a Jets team where you're just like, all right, we have no chance. This sucks. You're ruining our falls and winters. That sucks also, but this sucks differently. No, this is a particularly nasty emptiness. This is this is this is just

It's just dark It's like cruel It felt cruel and mean Watching it yesterday Oh my gosh Especially because They were doing exactly what they did In the 42 36 game

They're driving with two minutes left To go to go and take the lead And so you're already ready for the punch You're already ready for they're going to take the lead Get the ball back to my home as they're going to lose And then it turns out the punch comes one One beat faster than you thought it would Wide right again

Missing the kick The second and nine the throw up the pipe, which I've seen people complain about this. It's the right throw. He's open. I agree. He gets dumped in his lap. Get out of here with that.

It's all Tony Romo pointing out the shallow, which that's fine. But my gosh, you're trying to score a touchdown. Yeah. My first take is, it was going to be about the Chief's defense, however, because I'm on Twitter during the podcast and Shield isn't. I have head coaching news that Shield doesn't have. And so I think we're going to do a little live pivot. Go ahead.

Oh, I like this. The Titans have hired a head coach. Do you have, give me your top three. Who do you think, if I tell you, the Titans have hired a guy. So you know, it's not going to be a Lions coach or, you know, Ravens coach or whatever. They're still working. Who's your top three list? Your short list for the Titans.

Okay. I'm trying to think. I honestly don't remember all the people they've entered. Is it Rahim Morris? It is not Rahim Morris. I can get up an interview list real quick for you, if you like. Titans have, they've interviewed, Antonio Pierce. They've interviewed Brian Callahan, Mike Kafka, Mike McDonald, Dan Quinn.

they've interviewed Thomas Brown they've interviewed Bobby Sloick they've interviewed Brian Johnson they've interviewed Aaron Glenn they've interviewed Brian Shaw Oh my God David Shaw Oh yes excuse me

It's written Brian Sean In the list I was just reading off of It is David Shaw I was anchormaning I apologize Is it is it Dan Quinn? It is not Dan Quinn One more guess

Would they go Sloick It's not Bobby Slovak My Kafka I'm saying Bobby Slovakia Oh for three my friend, that's Axe Family Feud. Who did they hire? The president of coordinator, Brian Callahan,

has been hired as the new head coach of the Tennessee Titans. So Brian Callahan, for those who don't know, big surprise for Shield. I didn't think it would be that big of a surprise. Brian Callahan got his start coaching with the Denver Broncos. He was there as an office quality control coach, he was offensive assistant.

He was tight with Peyton, right? He was a big being in Peyton World Boys or something like that. He landed in Detroit. he landed in Oakland as the quarterbacks coach and then he took the Cincinnati Bengals offensive coordinator a coordinator job in 2019 with Zach Taylor staff

he is famously the son of Bill Callahan who's a long time excellent office of line coach in the NFL my initial thought on this is sure there have been times that I've been frustrated with the offensive design of the Bengals over Brian Callahan's time there

with Joe Burrow they've had these kind of star receivers and they've kind of just run a lot of stuff that we would criticize the Eagles for where they're running like really simple stuff because they just have stars so they can. That would be present sometimes on the Bengals film. You'd be wondering like, don't you want to guys like want to run some unique stuff

and some better stuff? They can be like really limited in terms like, they're only going to be in the gun. And then they're going to go under center to run. They're kind of predictable. I will say that by far the most impressive season for me, a Brian Callahan film is this past season, both when Burrow was limited.

And then when he was healthy, I thought they were putting a better offense on the field a more diverse offense on the field, a smarter offense on the field for him. And then critically, when Burrow went down and they started to do the Jake Browning thing, I thought that they did an impressive job, finding ways to get guys open,

finding easy throws, and started to get all like a spread the ball mentality, right? And you had like four tight ends who were catching passes, Yondra Yosovas and Charlie Jones, and again, all of these guys involved. They're running the ball more successfully. You saw Chase Brown get utilized in cool ways.

I did think that this Bengals offense from an X's and O's perspective was the most interesting one I've seen. With that said, I wouldn't have put, Callahan at the top of my like, this offensive innovator might have McVeigh juice list, right?

Like, I think if you were swinging for like, let's go get the young, inexperienced offensive guy and see if he can revolutionize the sport, I would have been more interested in Mike Kafka or Bobby Slovak. To be clear, I don't think either one of those guys is that dude. That's just, that's where I would have rolled my dice. That's where I would have sent my gamble

over a guy like Callahan. So this is not the sort of hire for me where I'm like, wow, maybe he ends up being a good solid offensive head coach, right? Maybe he ends being a Doug Peterson or a, you know, Frank Brike, Indianapolis version or just a guy who, like, coaches offense well and keeps the ship running and he hires a good staff, what have you. Obviously, he's going to have the NFL connections. But Brian Callahan, the new OC of the Titans, they must have felt like they got their guy,

because as you brought up in the top of the show, no one's really been hiring anybody. No one's, it's not like they were feeling push or anything. They went and go out there dude. So Brian Callahan, head coach the Titans, Sheel. I tried to vamp for you there a little bit so you could square your thoughts, get some words down the yellow legal pad. What do you think? Yeah, I am just surprised, given the coaching the pool of candidates that was out there,

you know, you and I had to do for the Ringer as part of the divisional round entrance survey, there was a question like match a coach to a team. Did you have Brian Callahan on any team when you were filling out the openings? Oh, it is extremely unlikely. I don't think I remember that Brian Callahan was getting interviews at the time. Yeah, yeah, I doubt anyone did. That's why when you said that, he felt to me like, somebody who gets interviews this time around, but is not going to get one of the head coaching jobs,

given all the opportunities out there. Now, I think that the Bengals offense, I don't think it's just been this year. Like, I thought last year they did a great job of adjusting it. They improved last year. It was a good point. I forgot about that. They certainly did. I just control that for Callahan on our divisional preview. There's no chance. Not a single Callahan mention, brother. Yeah. And I had people I had to leave out of that thing where I'm like, ooh, I really like this guy, but can't get him in there. So my gut. reaction is that it's fine because the Titans are in this weird spot where like, you know, they're not competing for a Super Bowl next year. So if he came in with a good plan and they thought,

okay, he can put together a good staff. I do think they showed some off, they showed a good job of adjusting, of evolving in Cincinnati over the last two years. I mean, that offense in 2022 look different than 2021. And then to your point, I mean, Jake Browning comes in and their offense played well this season. I mean, they did a really nice job keeping that thing afloat with Jake Browning in there. They finished 11th in offensive DVOA this year, Ben, and that's with Joe Burrow being injured. Like, they finished ahead of teams like the Seahawks and the Colts and the Texans. I mean, I thought they did a really nice job there. Now, Zach Taylor was still calling the plays, right, in Cincinnati, I believe, unless I'm wrong about that. Okay. So, Zach Taylor was still

calling the place. So we'll see. I'm not like, yeah, I don't know. If you're a Titans fan, you're probably not walking around going, this is amazing. At the same time, I don't look at it and say this is a disastrous hire. It's kind of one of those where you say the guy doesn't have a ton of experience. You know, he's been the Bengals offensive coordinator from 2019 to 2023. You know, 10 years ago, he was kind of getting his start as an offensive quality control coach. Then, like you said, he moved up to quarterback's coach at a couple stops and then offensive coordinator. So I think it's fine. Listen, if you can hit on an offensive coach who can adjust, who can get more with less, there you go, I'll say it, with your offensive players, then that's going to be a good thing.

I mean, they're in a weird spot. So, like, who's playing offense on this team next year, right? DeAndre Hopkins is probably gone. Derek Henry's probably gone. Ty J. Spears? I love Ty J. Spears, actually. You know that. Chigaccaquo?

Yeah, so it's, this is going to be like a multi-year thing. And I would imagine that they didn't want one of the big names because they've got ran Carthon there. And, you know, part of the reporting with Carthon and Brable was that there was a bit of a dispute there. And so I think they want Carthon being the guy picking the groceries and they want a coach who's going to coach the players who Carthon pick. So we'll see how it goes.

I wish I had a stronger take. But I don't know. I feel like you're probably in a similar boat to me, right? It's like, don't hate it, don't love it, but we'll say. Yeah. So I checked, I checked my work. Callahan is the Peyton Manning guy where he's like, I learned how to play or how to coach offense from Payton when Payton came to Denver, which is like a funny.

You usually. That makes me nervous. Yeah. Because last time, remember, Adam Gase got a job because of one phone call, Peyton Manning made. That's the name I was trying not to say. I do, I did, I did quickly scroll the Shil Copadia list of rules for hiring a coach. Hire a guy, not a scheme. Like, I feel like Callahan's getting hired for the guy.

because scheme-wise, they were pretty like, we're going to do what Joe and T and Chase kind of allow us to do. They weren't stubborn. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing that interests me is, when I go to think of schemes in the league that work for Will Levis,

what the Bengals run with Burrow is like 32nd on the list, right? In terms of like, like Levis would not fit in that. Levis is built to throw the ball 22 times over the middle of the field, 15 yards down the field. and that Bengals team throws it 50 times, most of them are flat underneath, and then occasionally deep on the outside, right? Like the routes that they're completing 75% of, yeah,

the routes that the Bengals ran are not the routes that Levis throws well. The routes that Levis throws well, not the ones of Bengals run. So it's a bit, that fit is weird. But I don't think Callahan ran that stuff because that's what he runs, slash Zach Taylor. I think that's just what Burrow needed. And so I am, that interest me is kind of seeing what they're going to do, especially like you said with a dearth of weapons to kind of build things around Levis.

I will say, though, because I don't want to do too much, like, make him adjacent to Adam Gase and leave him there. From the conversations I've had, which I've never spoken to Brian Callahan, but I've spoken to players under Brian Callahan. I've seen Callahan coach, and then you've heard other people talk about Callahan. He seems like a sharp tack and like a solid dude. I think he's a well-liked guy. I agree.

That is my understanding, too. Yeah, he tends to get like this guy knows what he's talking about, and he can communicate clearly in the players like him. And, like, you know, it's very rare to see someone get hired for the head coach for whom that isn't true. but it's happened, right? Adam Gay's got two head coaching jobs, and people knew players didn't like him.

And so, like, that is a feather in his cat. That's due his credit. Yeah, the gate, you want to avoid the Gase, the Myers, the judges, the Patricia's. Once you're like,

feel good that it's not going to be someone like that, then you can move on to the next tier. All right. So I'm sure we'll talk more about the Tennessee Titans in the weeks ahead. All right. Let's take a break. We'll come back with more takes.

All right, we are back on extra point taken. So now what happens? Like, Was that your take? Was that a breaking news interruption? What are we doing here? Are you saying something?

Am I saying something? I think that was my first take. My first take was Tennessee Titans higher Brian Callahan. Your best take of the season, I would say. You saved the best for last. I should have. Oh, dude. I should have been like,

my first take is on the Titans Nation higher Brian Callahan. And when you got off the pond, I'd have been like, that's ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense for them. And you opened Twitter. Your mind would have been blown. Ah, huge missed opportunity. I 100% would have been.

like get the freak out of here, you hipster. You actually, I would have been like Brian Callahan with these coaches out there. You want him to hire Brian Callahan? What a shame.

Next time, news perfectly breaks during a show. First time you've checked Twitter during the show and it's relevant. I don't have to yell at you for not paying attention to what I said because you also got a big episode for us. I mean,

we're rounding into form coming up here on the championship weekend. All right. This leads well into mind the second tape, second take, because I got a head coaching one here. So I'll act. I'm in on Jim Harbaugh of the Chargers. Let's do this. Let's call it in.

Let's call it in. Per ESPN, Harbaugh had a second interview there. I'm not telling you, first of all, this would be great for content. And as you know, I am team content, Jim Harbaugh and Justin Herbert. I cannot imagine more different personalities from how I know them, at least, than those two guys. So the comedy upside of their personalities would be great. At the same time, I'm looking at this Chargers team. Like, I do feel like they need someone like Harba.

I mean, the guy has won everywhere he's gone. 44 and 19 and 1 in four seasons with the 49ers, won nearly 70% of his games. Strong personality? Yes, you know what? Chargers might need a strong personality to lead them. Obviously, built Michigan into a winner, beat Ohio State, won the national championship.

himself. I feel like he's the right hire at the right time for this franchise, for this quarterback, for where they want to go. Now, the key here with Harbaugh is going to be the personnel side of things. And I almost feel like you kind of just have to hand him the keys. I mean, I don't know that you can pair him with some type of unknown GM and expect him personalities to work there. So it might be a situation. Remember in Seattle, Pete Carroll gets hired and then he kind of hires John Schneider as his GM. I feel like something like that might be smart. You know, maybe you go to Baltimore, you snag someone from that organization who John Harbaugh recommends who's not getting GM interviews and you say, yeah, John Harba says, listen, we're a good

organization just here. Trust me, this guy's good. Jim Harbaugh takes him on. So you're going to year five with Justin Herbert, ends the season last year, season ending injury. Rosser needs work. There's no doubt about it. I don't think it's an overnight fix. But you can be like competitive next year. You can be in the playoffs next year while you try to rebuild the roster here in the next couple of years and see if you can build a championship type team. So I was just looking at all the pairings earlier today. I was looking at the coaching news and I said, all right, it's time for Jim Harbaugh.

Get back in the NFL. Chargers are a good spot. Let's do this. I'm ready. What do you think? I actually don't know your full thoughts on Jim Harbaugh. So I struggle a little bit with Harbaugh because I think that a team. that Hages its wagon to Harbaugh

is destined for destruction. It's just how many years out is the destruction coming, right? Like, I think... And how many games do you win before it comes? Yeah. Harbaugh's, the rise of a Harbaugh coach team is truly meteoric.

It's a rise and it's meteoric because it crashes and burns. And I don't really trust him to keep a steady hand on a ship long term, kind of the way his brother has. It might be in him, right? It's worth remarking. He's in Michigan since 2015. He was in Michigan for a long time.

Like, it might have only been there for like five years. I couldn't believe that. Like when I was doing the, I'm like, oh my gosh, then eight, nine years. And there were only like nine scandals in those nine years. Like overall, like not bad on the Harbaugh-graining scale in terms of drama and nonsense and sanctions and cheating and then vines and whatever else is going to come down the mountain from all this.

So that's why I struggle with Harbaugh is because like I just don't think, this sounds so dumb. I don't think he's ever going to be like a Mount Rushmore guy, which like, okay, well, Mount Rushmore guys aren't usually available. It's a dumb thing to be hiring for anyway. I definitely think he's an elevator as a coach. I think he makes a roster better. I think he makes a team better.

I also think, like, you've seen Harbaugh. Obviously, he was at Stanford with Andrew Locke. They were incredible. But you've seen Harbaugh with the Niners in San Francisco and then at Michigan with the quarterbacks they've had and Shay Patterson and Jay Jim McCarthy. Like, he hasn't needed elite quarterback play to find a way to win. And that's such a sign of being a good coach.

Right. I really believe, like if you are consistently winning, at the level you're coaching at, without the best quarterback at that level, that to me is like, that's impressive. Like, he took that nightish team to a Super Bowl.

So I really think he's, I think he's very good at building around the margins. I think he's really good at at figuring out the other positions and how to get the best talent there and how to develop talent, how to develop athletes, how to maximize what schemes are going to work away. I think he's got a mind for it. So if you're the Chargers and the only thing you've got,

so the only thing you've got is the franchise quarterback. You have the dude, capital T, capital D. And it really makes sense. It's a nice pairing. And then I also think like a lot of times the he's from here thing gets overstated. Right. And like obviously when Harbaugh was with the Chargers, it was, they were San Diego.

Right. So it's not even like a friend of everything. They've relocated. But I do think that Harbaugh is the sort of guy who wants to build a culture around himself, but also wants to build himself around a culture. Like he he loves to live and die for the organization. He like he promotes and also lives insane buy-in. as he said after Michigan won the Michigan National Championship,

if I die, just called me a Michigan man. Like, you know, he fully drinks the, what's what, what's like that just made like football is so dumb. When you're like, cool, I mean, it's hilarious. It's great. It keeps us employed. But quotes like that are, like, if you have a quote like that to someone who doesn't follow foot, imagine like just a normal person who's not a sports fan and you told them a quote like that, how dumb it would sound.

I say it all the time. If you're going to be a good NFL coach, be a little deranged. Gotta be just be a little nuts. A little, not well, as Parcell said, these are not well-adjusted people. Yes. At the very least, a little nuts.

If I meet a coach and I'm like, what a lovely guy. I don't trust him. He's not good. No, he can't coach. Yeah. So Harba is right. Harbaugh drinks the Kool-Aid. I do think that Harbaa, like, going to the chargers to resuscitate the chargers after they've fallen away after they've never

had a championship. Like, I think that you'll get good gym. You'll get like the sort of gym you want if you give him a challenge like that. He's got to have his teeth into something a little bit. So overall, I like it. I like it for the charges a lot. I have no idea how to appropriately calibrate to Harbaugh.

If you were like, is he like the ninth best coach in the NFL? I don't know, 17, 4. I have no idea how to put a number on it. But that's what I read on the guy. Yeah, I feel like he would be a top 10 coach if he came in. I don't know, just based on history. Like there is a history there. This isn't someone.

I mean, he won almost 70% of his games in four seasons with the 49ers. And then he went to college and he beat Ohio State and he won a national championship. I mean, yeah, the resume is there. I mean, you mentioned culture. You know, it's just like the chargers. I mean, no cult. Like, what is the culture? No culture.

No identity. Like, their identity is just that they're going to screw it up over and over again. And they're going to charge her and they're going to charge her and they're going to charger. And so I feel like if you're Harbaugh, you look at this. And obviously, he's been wanting to get back into the NFL. At least that's how I see it from, you know, everything you've heard over the past several years.

and it's just like this is a nice opportunity to get back in. I mean, usually when you're taking over a job, quarterback is going to be a huge question mark. And this is one spot where you feel like you have one of the more talented quarterbacks in the NFL. And if you believe in yourself as a coach, then you should be able to get something out of him that no one else has been able to get out of him. And I do feel like you mentioned, you know, Harbaugh is the culture. Like it's for like it doesn't feel like Herbert's going to, you know, that is not his personality to like, you know, it's me. Like I'm the idea. identity of the team. Like, that would be a good fit where it's like, no, no, Harbaugh kind of sets the tone with everything and you just go out there and you play well, given everything we're giving around you. So there you go. All right, you're in it, on it. I'm in on it. Let's see if anything happens there here over the next week or so. All right, what do you got? What's your second take? My second take is on the Tampa Buccaneers. And what I want to say about the bucks is this season, now that we can finally close the book on it, right? One where like you and I were just,

joking about Baker Mayfield and Kyle Trask at the top, even by the end of the season, like the Bucks are going to win the division and still, like, they're a team going to take the Mickey out of because they're winning the Mickey Mouse NFC South. This season is a win for Jason Light, who's a general manager of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

The story for me on this team, making it through the Wild Guard round and then playing in the division round is the youth on this team. And the base that that gives them for what is going to inevitably be a post-Tom Brady reload, right? You get Brady, you go all in. You're paying everybody to stay in the building. You're paying guys to come to the building, right?

We are going to try to win championships with the 43-year-old. Obviously, it's Tom. Like, we got to go. We got to go now. We ain't waiting. So once Brady retires and you have to start to, you know, Donovan Smith is gone, and Ali Marpet is gone. And Rob Grancke is in the building and out of the building.

And you're going to start to have a transition period. You paid Shaq Barra a ton of money. And, you know, now like it looks like probably that was an over-ambitious contract. But you had to do these things. You had to try to keep the nucleus together, win the championship. championships. All right. inevitably, a reload comes. And everything you're going to have to get younger.

You're going to have to cut some contracts. You're going to have to lose some ball games. And the Buccaneers lost their ball games. Don't get it twisted. You know, this team was struggling down the stretch last year. But this season, man, watching them against the Detroit Lions, you got KJ Britt flying around the field at linebacker, just a guy who has ousted Devin White from that starting job.

And remember, like, they had a big future in mind for KJ, or for, for Devin White. They needed him to be the Arab parent to Levanti David. They've got this fifth rounder from 2021, KJ, a bridge kind of fill on the death start behind him. And then as White's struggling, KJ gets snaps and looks excellent. Talk about Kallijah Kansi. First round picks this year, Diff's a tackle. Ooh, you see some Kallagian-Kanzi film recently?

He's a collage on the inside next to Vita Vaya, winning quick over the guard, generating pressure from the interior. I was a Kansi Doughter. And he's too small to succeed the NFL level. He's been the past first guy they want him to be. Christian Izzy and who won their nickel job, undrafted free agent out of Rutgers this year, Yaya Diabi,

seven sacks playing off the edge, taking snaps away from Shaq Barrett. They wanted Joe Tryon Shainka to be this guy. He wasn't that guy. Diabby's winning those snaps. Off at the side of the ball. Kick Luca Decky to right tackle. I did not think that was going to work. Early on, it didn't seem like it was going to work.

Lukie got better at right tackle. Cody Mock, who's their second round pick, played right guard. He's gotten better over the course of the season. Rashad White took a step forward at running back. Their youth, much of which has been drafted over the last two seasons, was going to define the scope of this reload. If you hit on a lot of those young players, and if the snaps that you gave them led to

development or not, that was going to be, because there's a one-year reload, two-year reload, three-year reload. How ready are we? And even if you're like, okay, we're probably not going to contend to the NFC, right? We're going to lose to the lions. Like, we're not at that level yet. Even if that's the case, you think about a guy like Mike Evans, who has his contract coming up, I thought entering the season, I've talked a lot about Mike Evans being a mid-season

trade candidate. I think they're going to trade them at the deadline. So they're going to be two and six. Not only are they not two and six, they went to the postseason, won a post-season game. Evans went over a thousand yards. If you're Mike Evans and like entering the season, you were like, I might leave Tampa for the first time.

I might go somewhere where I can actually go win a championship. You're not looking at this Bucks team and saying we're winning a championship next year, but you're a lot more likely to stay on this Bucks team because they proved to you. The rest of the roster did. Hey, we're ascending. We've got young players. We can rebuild this thing. We can go.

Now, I'm dancing around quarterback and obviously the Bucks are going to dance around quarterback and quarterback is the challenging thing here. But I want to say emphatically, as a guy was a Bucks stouter and largely a Bucks taunter and teaser over the course of the season. Now their seasons closed as it is, I do think that this was a big win of a season for Jason Light. And for that scouting department and that drafting department, a lot of the players who made this buck season stay afloat, you know, brought them to nine and eight. In another world, they like, don't make the playoffs, but they're nine and eight. And we're like, oh, that's respectable for the bucks.

We were mostly like, you know, doubting them because they'd somehow snarging the playoffs at nine and eight. This respectable season, I think has a lot to do with the improvement of young players and the drafting of young players, getting guys in the building, letting them compete and letting them grow. So the young nucleus for the Bucs, a lot stronger here in 2024 than I would have told you it would have been after the Tom Brady era. Hats off to them. Yeah, I don't know if I'm on board with everything you're saying. Like I don't disagree. They got useful players.

Like, you know, the names you mentioned, they played quality snaps for a team. That was one drive within getting to the NFC championship. So I don't want to poo that. If you ask me, what's the most likely scenario going forward for this Bucs team? I would probably say they don't make the playoffs next year. And they're kind of in this weird middle ground with a mix of like okay young players and veterans that they're not sure what to do with in a quarterback problem. And again, I don't mean to like, I'm the one who always says, like sometimes it's about just having a nice season as a fan.

If you were a Bucks fan, you're expecting nothing this season. And they were a pretty fun team. And they got you a playoff win. And they got you an NFC South title, which you certainly. didn't expect. I just don't like, like those names you mentioned, they're fine player, like they're fine, they're useful. I don't know. I look at that. Like if we lined up all the nuclei, a word I have not said on a podcast ever, the nuclei of different teams around the NFL. I mean, it's probably still going to be middle of the pack. Now, maybe you say, well, that's an achievement because they

just came off this wild stretch with Tom Brady, where it was all in, all in, all in. And so to be even mediocre with your young talent, after that is an account. That I would agree with. I'm just not that bullish on them going forward, if that makes sense. I try not to make this too forward-looking because I largely agree with you, right? Like, I put the forward-looking part of it in the concept of like maybe Mike Evans really wants to stay because he likes what he sees, right? Like, I think those are your major ramifications.

I agree with you. I'm not picking the bucks to make the playoffs next year, right? I mean, we'll see how the rest of the South shakes out. Maybe I freaking will. But also, I don't anticipate doing that. I don't anticipate voting them as a contender. what I will say is that I very much expected to enter the 2024, 2025 season going, hey, the bucks aren't going to be a playoff contender this year.

Hey, the bucks are still, you know, recovering from the Tom Brady air. The bucks are still reloading. But now there's a chance I'm saying it while also saying, but they have a, they might have a franchise tackle tandem. Like Tristan Worf's moved to left tackle and it going great. And I tell you, Luke Kedke was playing great ball demonstration right tackle. That's a big deal, right? I might be able to say, hey, like, you know, they're moving off the Shaq Barrett contracts.

They had to. But guess what? Like, they have a starting. edge rusher and Yaya Diabi. He was a third round pick for them as a rookie. Like, like, that is meaningful. That absolutely matters. Like, they've been trying to get ready for the Levanti David retirement for a long time. And again, like, I don't think KJ Britt has clearly won the job, but they might have the guy. That's the sort of thing that keeps you afloat. It keeps you competitive. It keeps you active in league circles with trains and with free agents. And then if and when you figure out quarterback, it gives you

the springboard. I think that that that is meaningful. The fact that this front office is drafting well stems the bleeding a lot faster and allows you to turn this thing around a lot faster. The turnaround ain't done. It ain't finished at all, but it allows you to finish this turnaround a lot quicker. And I think that's hats off to the front office. You got to hit your picks, and they're hitting their picks.

Yeah, I agree. They got here without just leaning on the veteran players from the Tom Brady era. So I think that is a fair point to me. On the other side of the ball, like, the lions are such a clear example of what happens when you hit your picks, right? We were like, oh, this team's going to be, like, good this year.

And then they hate on Jumeir Gibbs, hate on Sam Laporte, hate on Brian Branch, all of a sudden they're playing the NFC championship game. Like, when you can, like, nail a draft,

it has a, as a remarkable, uh, impact on, on, leaping you up a tier, leaping you up two tiers. The Buccaneers aren't,

they didn't go from like good to great the way lions did. They went from like, they might be really bad to like average, but still hitting on a draft, Clajicancy, Cody Mock, Yaya, Yaya Diabi,

uh, Christian Izzy and his undrafts infrasion. It leaps you up. And that leap, I think is cool. to say. Yeah, four useful players in a draft is a home run. You might hear that and be like, what? That's no. If you get like four starters or two starters and two rotational players, obviously depends on where you pick. I mean, Lions had four of what, the first 45 pick. So that's

different. But yeah, that is a, that is a nice draft. And so when you're positioned like that, after their rookie seasons, that is promising. All right. Take one more break. Come back with our third takes. All right. We're back on extra point taken. So like, I didn't want to do another Cowboys take. I feel like I had a Cowboys take last week, but I was thinking about this, and I felt like I just want to go

get out there and get ahead of it. So here's the take. Dak Prescott is about to have arguably the most leverage of any quarterback in NFL history. Whoa! Walk me through it. Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. You tell me if I'm wrong.

This is what I was thinking earlier. All right. So since we spoke last week, I think it was between Cowboys decided to keep Mike McCarthy for the 2024 season. But ESPN's Adam Schefter says they're not extending Mike McCarthy. So he is going to coach the final year of his contract and then they will decide what to do. Well, guess who else is entering the final year of his contract? His name is Dakota Rain. Is that right?

That's right, right? Dakota Ray and Prescott. He is also entering the final year of his deal. when he last signed his contract extension, Prescott got a no tag clause and a no trade clause. Okay. So this means that if Dak Prescott wants to leave after 2024, he would be just 32 years old at the time.

And like as things stand right now, there's literally nothing the Cowboys would be able to do about it. If Dak Prescott decided in his head or his camp or whatever, that 2024, I'm just playing it out and whatever happens happens. And then I might want to go somewhere else. The Cowboys are unable to do anything. Most of the time, the team has the leverage because they can say, well, we'll just use

the franchise tag once. Maybe we'll use the franchise tag twice. And now you're talking about three years down the road when you actually hit free agency. So if you're a Dak Prescott and you're looking at the quarterback market and you were, what was he, second team all pro this year, going to be top five MVP. Again, even though the playoffs didn't go the way he wanted to, the way the Cowboys wanted to. If you want to be incentivized to stay, I mean, what are the Cowboys going to have to pay you on an extension? They're going to have to make you the highest paid player in the NFL. I'm just telling

you, that's what it's going to take. Joe Burrow right now is making $55 million per year. And so if you're incentivized to sign a contract when you are one year away from free agency as an all-pro quarterback at 32 years old, like, that's basically the beginning and the end of the conversation. If I'm Dak Prescott, it's either we're beating that borough contract and going above 55 million per year, or I'm just going to chill for a year and I'll figure it out after the season. So Prescott needs to be incentivized to sign this contract extension this offseason, and it's going to take a big, big number. Not only a big, big number, but remember all those conversations we had about, did the Deshawn

Watson contract change the market? will other quarterbacks now get fully guaranteed deals like Deshawn Watson got? And it didn't happen. Deshawn Watson got $230 million fully guaranteed. No other quarterback has gotten more than $146 million guaranteed. You know who's in position to say, well, I would like my next contract, whether it's three years, whether it's four years, whatever, fully guaranteed, or maybe it's not fully guaranteed, but it's just at a monster number that blows out the rest of the market.

that would be Dak Prescott. He is in that spot. This is a huge storyline to watch this offseason. Will these two sides be able to come to an agreement that keeps Prescott with the Cowboys Beyond 2024? Or is there a chance that Dak Prescott and Mike McCarthy, the coach and the quarterback of a team looking to contend for a Super Bowl, are both going into 2024 in the final years of their deals? It'd be so good.

What are the odds? I mean, what are the odds that that's going to work out? So bottom line, rare, rare scenario. If you're listening to this going, give me a break, Prescott's not the best quarter. Like, it doesn't, that doesn't matter. What matters is the leverage of the player, the market. Dak Prescott performed at a high level in the regular season. Again, 32 years old.

We never see a top 10 quarterback with prime years left, enter free agency. that's at least possible with Dak Prescott here. So there you go. Did I make the case? Am I wrong? What do you got? No, I liked it the more and more you got there.

At first I was like, I was like, how does DAC have the most leverage anybody in history? Because I'm just thinking about they lost to the Packers, right? Like, no one is any level. Like, it's all terrible.

But there was a report in December, right? That, hey, like, you know, we're going to potentially given the big extension. They were, I want to say like 10 and three of the point or something. Like, DAC was leading the MVP odds. Like, there's a, there's a, there's a public thought that like, oh, they were talking about it. And then they got worse.

Now they're not going to talk about it anymore. That's not really the way it goes. Like, they were initially feeling out what it's going to potentially look like. They're going to come back to the table on it without question just to get an understanding of what's your camp expecting. What's my camp expecting? The other thing that makes the moment really crazy is that Cedney Lamb's got one year left, right? Cedney Lamb has got one year left on his deal, $17 million. Mikea Parsons needs an extension that would make it.

probably the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. And then Parsons has one year before his fifth year option. So Parsons is now extension eligible because he's finished three seasons. C.D. Lamb needs an extension to stay on the team again next year. Zach Martin. I remember the whole Zach Martin conversation with all the nonsense? One year left and then he's got void years, right? So there's cap money that's in 25 and 26, but really he's just under contract through 24.

So like, the Cowboys are bringing in, bring a close. We've got a whisper that nobody hears. Like, dangerously close to a full team blow up if they want it. And I don't think that they would want that. There's no reason to want that. And CEDY is incredible. Zach Martin was first team all pro again. Dak Prescott's incredible.

But they're not committed to anybody beyond 24, which is stinky. Like, that's not how things typically go. And so we'll see, right? They might walk out in March and be like, bam, CD extension, bam, DAC extension. Make it very clear, like, this player, nucleus is our nucleus. We have some coaching staff questions, but that's it. Or they might just be totally just silent as the grape over the course of the summer, in which case, the narratives,

shield the storylines. I would like to see it. I mean, now they will, like Prescott's cap number is huge this year. So they're going to do something there. But a lot of times that's a restructure where you just pay more money up front, spread it out over multiple years. That doesn't mean an extension. So when and if that happens, don't get confused. I mean, an ex. I'm telling you, if TAC Prescott signs an extension this offseason, it will make him the highest paid player in the NFL. Again, you're listening going, wait, the guy who has not gotten past the divisional round in what seven, eight years in the NFL? Yes, that is how, uh, that is how this works. I mean, Josh Allen's gotten past it once as we just went over and no one's got like,

these are very talented quarterbacks. It's hard to get past these benchmarks. Could Dak Prescott finish his career? Where would you want to see him go? Let's, let's say they come to an agreement, Cowboys say, we're not doing that. Dak says, all right, let's go try to win the Super Bowl, figure it out. Can you like, I mean, I think people would be shocked at what like the bidding war would be to sign Dak Prescott if he's available next off. And this is the thing. Normally when a team is moving off for like usually it's like, okay, trade the guy. I mean, Russell Wilson. No, they cannot do that.

No tag, no trade clause. They would get nothing for Dak Prescott. I see in your eyes you want the Miami Dolphins. Oh, she'll. Of course. Are you kidding me? That Mike, which one is it, McDaniel? Mike McDaniel, Dak Prescott, Jalen Waddle. 2025.

Devon A. Shane, I'm going to year or two in the future. Tyree kills are a little older. Oh, it would be a delight shield. If you thought Ben Believing the Dolphins was a bad arc for the 20203 podcast, you just wait until the 2025 podcast when Dak is on that team. I will be incorrigible. All right, there you go. I'm happy with that.

So I like when I get a reaction. Sometimes you're like, give me a break. This is boring. I see it in your eyes. You just start checking social media. That one you were invested in. So that was good. All right.

I would say 95% of the time that you think I'm checking social media. I'm just trying to Google stuff to make sure I'm ready for your take. I have to get up. CEDY's contract. I'd have figured out. All right. What do you got? What's your third thing?

My third take stunned that this ball is in my core and not in your court. Ooh. The Kyle Shanahan Tide management issue is rearing its ugly head once again. Oh. All right. And what a dangerous thing to be true, Sheel, approaching a game against the Detroit Lions and Dan Campbell. End of the first half. Niners are down.

Excuse me, dines are up. Seven and six. She was already wagging his head. She'll be disgusted. I have the plays up. Could you do this from memory? You've looked at this so many times that you just know. No, I have the time stands.

You have the down in distance. Honestly, and I'll let you go. I haven't looked at it. since the game because this is not a one-time thing. This is almost what I expect when I watch Kyle Shanahan coach football games. So it is seven to six. The Niners are leading, but it has generally been a Packers-controlled first half, right?

It's been a bad first half for the Niners. Brock is missing and the Packers have been driving. They've had field goals and they've got a fourth down fail. But in general, like shaky game, the Niners get the ball 25-yard line, four minutes left all three timeouts, four minutes before half time. Kyle's running the football or getting a short pass.

so you pick up a first down. You're snapping the ball with one second left on the clock. They run three plays. She'll three before the two-minute warning. All right. Get it down to the two-minute warning. Again, all three-time outs. They have the ball on their 40.

And they go, past with Christian McCaffrey, run, run, get to third and two on the Packers, 43. The clock is running, 119, all the way down through one minute, all the way down through 50 seconds, down through 40 seconds.

My blood pressure is rising. The clock decreases. Shield's blood pressure just increased just 141 for just leaping up. They take a timeout with 34 seconds left on the clock. It is their first timeout. They then pass the ball underneath. Brock has a couple of checkdowns. They get the ball to the 30.

They spike it with one time out left to save the time. Third and two, incomplete pass. They kick a field goal from the 30. And it has failed. They got the ball at the 25-yard line with four minutes left. And in four-minute, shield, they moved a grand total of 45 yards.

This was the best offensive football last year and attempted a field goal with a kicker that they largely don't trust in Jake Moody that was blocked and they go up, they go into half the block room up 7 to 6. Now, that was the bad one. They got away with zero points, right? The result is very clear.

Worth noting that the 49ers were losing this game 17 to 21 with six minutes left in the fourth, got the ball on a missed field goal attempt from the backers, there's 31, at the 31 yard line, there's 618 left, and they decided to make that drive the last drive of the game. 618, when you have timeouts, is plenty of time to go two for one if you're aggressive. And obviously, you're like, okay,

if we can make this last drive of the game and ensure that those guys don't get the ball and they don't have a chance for rebuttal, sure, but you ain't been moving the ball that easy, Chief. This ain't 42 to 36 now. This isn't, this isn't, oh, we know we can take the air out of the ball because we go down and field and score.

You haven't scored on that many drives. I don't know if you want to be playing that football. But they were running the football and completions in bounds and letting the clock go and not hurrying up and eating clock and eating clock. Eventually scoring from third and one with a minute left. But if they had failed shielded to convert on that third and down, fourth and one from the Packer six, that was the ball game. They don't get that fourth down. It's over. They didn't play for two drives.

They played for one. This is who Kyle Shanahan is. All right. Kyle Shanahan is a very cautious coach. and a very negligent clock manager accordingly. He's very happy to let time just fall and fall and fall off the clock. Doesn't think about maximizing a possession, being aggressive, going for seven instead of three,

going for two possessions instead of one. That is the opposite of the guy who's going to be on the other sideline on Sunday, and Dan Campbell is the head coach, the Alliance. Campbell would like to get as many possessions out of the clock as he can. And the Lions will certainly run the football and sit on it when they have the lead and they're in that position. But remember, the Niners were not in that position at the end of the fourth quarter. They did not have the lead yet.

Campbell will go for him on fourth downs in his territory, in your territory, fourth and one, fourth and five. He will go for him if it is even a 50, 50 lean coach's decision. Campbell tends to be aggressive. Campbell tends to like to go for those. They will, they will, you know, I promise you. The lions are up seven to six and they get the ball back with four minutes left at the end of the first half against the 49ers.

They will be going for seven points. There is no, they will not think for a second. Oh, let's make sure they don't get the ball back. they will be going to put as many points on the board as possible. This is meaningful because the Lions are seven-point underdogs to the Niners. The Niners are clearly the better team, right? As a guy who I believed in the Lions, I've been picking the Lions. I've loved the Lions postseason.

They do not match it well with the Niners. They gave up explosive passes. This is not a good match. Like Jericho throwing over the middle of the field versus Fred Warner. This is not the Lions game. It is in San Francisco. The Niners are the better team. The Niners are hugely favored.

Which means that the Lions are going to pursue. a high variance game script. They're going to go for 4,000s. They're going to go for two-point conversions. They're going to go for the luck-based things that if they break their way, give them a huge boost in their winning probability. They are the big underdog. They're going to pursue variance.

And Dan's great at that. And Kyle's great at letting them have it. And in the worlds in which the Lions win this game, Sheel, and in the 20% and 15% of future universes where the Lions beat the Niners, the championship game, I can guarantee you a big difference between that Lions win. and that Niners' loss will be clock management, end of half management.

So Kyle Shanahan, this is your season. Weak NFC field, death star offense, young players generally healthy. Like the Devo injury is a big deal. But like all together, you got a great group here. This is your year. No Jimmy. You got Brock now. This is it.

Do not blow this on the same nonsense you've been doing for years. Well said. you were the one who brought that up this week. You know, I was messaging with our wonderful colleague, Lindsay Jones earlier today on Slack, and she was like, you know, rank the remaining coaches based on how you feel about them, game management wise.

And I was like, I think I'll go Harbaugh, Campbell, Reed, Shanahan. Harbaugh has become a little more conservative, I think because he loves his defense. He has been a little more conservative in recent years than the past. Campbell, I think is very good, but sometimes goes out of his mind like that Cowboys game when he's

going for two. But I do like when he goes out of his mind, it's generally to be more aggressive than to be too conservative. Andy Reed, I've had this conversation with so many people. They're like, wow, he's figured that out since his eagle stays. And I go, no, Patrick Mahomes has figured it out and just takes control of it. I think if you saw Andy Reid with a different quarterback, it would not be pretty. And then I think with Shanahan. And I ask, I actually don't think it's like game management errors. Like, I think there's a difference. Okay.

It's game management choices. It, yes, it's his mentality. He has like, do you ever have a friend who's just like worst case scenario? Like they're always thinking about like you're doing something that is completely low, but no, the worst case scenario pops into their head. Maybe you have a parent, you know someone like this. It's always they're thinking about the worst case scenario. That is how this man coaching.

makes these decisions, even though he has built, like you said, like literally, one of the most efficient offenses of the last 10 to 20 years. And he's got the one at halftime was wild because he was so worried about his offense failing and giving the Packers a chance to kick a field goal that he managed the clock that way instead of just going and trying to score the touchdown. Like that is a baffling, baffling decision. and he's done this consistently. This is who he is.

This is not a one-time thing. This is not a, again, this is not like he's dumb and he's screwing it up. This is a, this is kind of something inside of him that is conservative in old school and says, this is the way we're going to do it. And so you're right to flag it because it is absolutely something to keep an eye on. Dan Campbell is the opposite.

I mean, that guy is going to be aggressive over and over and over again in that football game. You didn't mention special teams, by the way. Another big thing. We'll talk about this more on the Friday show, but Lions have tricks up their sleeve. You've only osmosis a small percentage of your character into me. I've not yet received the special teams pollution. All right.

I grind in the special teams, DVOA. I'm not there yet. Sicko. Packers had the big return in that game. Nine are special teams has not been good. Lions special teams will have some tricks up their sleeve. So I think you're right. Campbell's going to play to win.

He is not going to be scared going into that game. And Kyle Shanahan is going to make conservative in-game decisions that could end up being part of the story in that football. I mean, I couldn't believe it the end of the half. Honestly, that was. And by the way, last week, so last week I brought up the McVeigh example, Solek, and, you know, remember, end of the half against the Detroit Lions, where he sits on the ball with multiple timeouts left with Matthew Stafford, against that lion's defense. He takes a knee. They lose the game by what, one point, right?

Guess what we saw this week? Tampa Bay Bucks, get the ball. I can't believe I'm using Todd Bowles as an example of what you should do. But, hey, people can change. Todd's growing up, man. Yes. Bucks have the ball.

A minute 27 left. Their own eight. Everyone was yelling at Michelle. McVeigh was inside his own 10. Yes, you still can. Do not be thinking worst case scenario. Bucks from their own eight drove 92. yards in seven plays and tied that game at 10 going into halftime.

I mean, if they don't do that, the game is a blowout. Like, do not waste possessions, specifically do not waste possessions when your offense is good. You cannot waste possessions when your offense is good. If your offense sucks, fine. If your quarterback sucks, fine. If you want to do it, I'll still yell at you. But when you have an awesome offense, what are you doing? I mean, they're shrinking, the Packers are shrinking that game.

They're keeping the ball. You'd need those possessions. Yes. Without question, the most fired up I have ever seen you. Oh, dude. Your shield was cooking. Oh, man. I wish we did full-nil-up.

I didn't know what happened. I'd save this clip forever. Once I realized, shaking his head. He was like throwing his shoulders. She was going to hit somebody. Oh, my gosh. Once I realized that was happening, I just started laughing.

Oh, brother. Is that what it's like when I get nuts? That was amazing. I went and scrolled your Twitter timeline to find some angry tweet from you about this as a half time of the game. You didn't tweet about it. I re-tweeted Barnwell.

Barnwell said it well. Yeah, Barnwell said so scared of other team getting three that he's cutting off his chances of scoring seven. Listen, sometimes you can't say it as well as someone else. I should have texted you. Next time, next time I'm texting you. I'm getting a reaction and then I'm tweeting it. Make sure I'm on the record.

You cannot use my text unless I'm on the record. Although I tell everyone in my life, you're always on the record unless you say off the record. So a little double standard, but that's how I operate. All right. Sounds good. I don't know what just happened.

I blacked out. Okay, Kyle Shanahan, I agree with you. We'll talk more about that game on Friday. What a pod. We had Brian Callahan Titans. We had Dak, Prescott, Cowboys, Bait. We had Shio and nuts on Shanahan. Gosh, what's the extra point?

The extra point is pretty low-key. All I want is I wrote down pieces of news from when we last spoke, and we're going to do thumbs up or thumbs down on the little pieces of news. Okay, are you ready? All right. Let's try it. Dan, and we can obviously talk, expand, you know, our conversations about these in future episodes, but Panthers hired Dan Morgan, who was already in the building as their general manager.

What do you got? Thumbs up, thumbs down, thumb neutral. Thumbs up. I watched Purdue TCU in the beginning of the 2019 college football season with Dan Morgan while he was with the Buffalo Bills who were next to one another in the press box

because I was a scout with the draft network and he was the director of player for like a story or something. Okay. No. And he was unbelievably nice to me. Especially because as I later learned afterward in classic Ben fashion,

he was like, hi, I'm Dan Morgan. I was like, what's up, man? And I did not have any idea who Dan Morgan was.

And then I later learned that that was supposed to be a big deal. And he very clearly knew the whole time. I didn't realize it was a big deal. And he was very friendly. For this reason, he would be a good GM. Yeah.

Dan Morgan was in Seattle when I covered the Seahawks. Nice guy. Seamed like a well-liked guy there. I do wonder about the Panthers process. This is not about Morgan, but it's like, you haven't hired a coach yet. Like,

wouldn't you want to, aren't you thinking like, let's align the GM and the coach? And I also wonder, Ben, also about, like, can temper attract, right now.

You know what I mean? Like, like, Morgan, was already in the building, which, again, he could be, he could be good. A huge Panthers guy and loves organization and whatever, yeah. But like, I don't know how many, I do, I want to see who they hire as head coach. Money always talks. We know that. But that was interesting to me.

All right, I know what you're going to give to the next one. Bears hire Shane Waldron as their offensive coordinator. What do you got? Thumbs up or thumbs down? I thought I also have a thumbs up. Yeah. I thought that was good. I would describe Shane Waldron as like, like, not the finished product.

Like there's a couple of times each Seahawks game I'm like, okay, Shane, do you want to like relax dude? Like we don't need to be doing this or like, Shane, it's third and two. Your offense hasn't had a nice drive and a few drives. Do you want to just like run it and get it and like sustain something? I think like make some of the easy young mistakes. Like he's like thinking of that a put called place for two years. Guys can make it a little bit too creative for his own good,

but generally runs good stuff. And I think that he very clearly built an offense that maximized Gino. And I like when I can see a guy do things like, oh, you like these routes this way, you like these dropbacks, you like this sort of a pocket. We can do that here. I think for whomever the Bears end up getting a quarterback, he can cater things.

I think that's a big deal. I agree with that. And Waldron was there for the one year with Russell Wilson, right? The last year of Russell Wilson, yes. And people for it like, I know. Three years with Shane as a play caller. He started 21, yeah. That wasn't a good offense to wash.

That wasn't a consistent offense. That was a top 10 offense in terms of DVOA by the end of the season with Russell on his last legs. no one's been able to come close to that with Russell Wilson in the years since. And then like you mentioned, I mean, Gino, like the way we look at Gino Smith now is very different than we looked at Gino Smith two years ago. I mean, I thought that offense was going to suck going into 2022. And I thought they did a good job adjusting, helping the quarterback, all those things.

So yeah, I think he's established a high floor. I mean, he's been, what, top 13, three straight seasons in Seattle, which like no one would look at their talent and like they've had offensive line issues. They had young offensive tackle. So I think he did a good job there. I think that's a nice hire by the Bears. And also one of the benefits of getting your stuff in order early in the cycle. You know, like, I don't know if you like there might be a head coach who gets hired next week.

Would have been like, I would love to have Shane Waldron as my offensive coordinator. I would have been shocked if Waldron got through this cycle without getting hired as an OC. That would have surprised me. Oh, yeah, definitely. So all right, good job by the Chicago Bears. Raiders hire Antonio Pierce. I was messaging you about this because I'm like, do we need to have a take on this? And you're like, well, I kind of talked about it last time.

And I was like, oh, yeah, that's true. You did. Since then, he actually got hired. And I think we both have kind of a sideways on this. Like my take on this, yeah, that's where you are. I mean, my take on this is like it might not work out. It's a bad history of hiring interim coaches and getting, you know, seduced by a five-game sample.

At the same time, the way those players went to bat. Like, that was unusual the way those players went to bat for. wasn't like, yeah, we like him. He's done a good job. I mean, what was Max Crosby saying? Like, he's going to demand a trade if they don't hire Antonio Pierce. Max Crosby threw his weight around. And I appreciate that from Max. That's six to say. Yeah, that was a nice job by him. So, listen, again, it might not work out. I think it's okay to give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, it's not like you're in a horrible situation. You figure out the next move. So I think that was a fine move to make. And then the last guy, I know you like, Jaguars hire Ryan Nielsen.

as their defensive coordinator. Thumbs down. He should have been an eagle. Oh, I thought. He belonged to Philadelphia. Just that angry mustached man belonged to my Philadelphia Eagles. Nielsen's good. Nielsen, Nielsen, in my opinion, got the juice.

I think he maximized a undermanned Falcons defense. They were one of the top defense by success rate. By rushing defense, rushing EPA, they were the top defense. When you go and look at DVOA, they weren't nearly as high, a bono adjustment. The Falcons did face some, some, a really easiest. schedule of offense. With that said, when I watch the film, I see a guy who understands how to make it work, right, in terms of we're going to live in a too high world, but we're still able to defend the run. That inexorable problem that all the defensive coordinators have to deal with nowadays, you can see that he's got the same stuff that Dennis Allen did in terms of solving those problems, some of the same liabilities too. And he asks a lot out of his corners. And I think that that's going to be a bit of a growing pain for the Jaguars early. But Nielsen seems to me that guy's got his head screwed on straight. I like that higher. I need to do I need to like formulate more about I don't have a strong take on Ryan Nielsen.

I thought their defense was fine. Like you mentioned, I thought they beat up on a lot of bad opponents, 24th in defensive DVOA, 30th in defensive DVOA against the past. So they played the second easiest schedule in the NFL. I will remind people, the Jaguars defense, you and I said all season, did not pass the I test. Statistically, they were 10th in defensive DVOA under Mike Caldwell. Like back in August, if you were. would have told me, hey, they're going to be 10th and defensive DVOA. I probably would have picked the Jaguars to make the AFC championship.

Like, I mean, their offense is really the side of the ball that screwed them. So I wonder if that's going to be an upgrade or not. I think it's fine. I'm sideways. You know, there's a chance I come in in August and say all the hipsters love Ryan Nielsen, but here's why the Jaguars defense is going to stink this year. So that's possible that I come in with that take. Hiring Ryan Nielsen is thumbs up, firing Mike Caldwell's thumbs down.

So overall, you are at Thumbs Neal. and there's a chance that the Nielsen thing doesn't work, right? Like, whenever you'd make a change, like, things can get worse. And I thought that Caldwell was doing a good job with that unit. So I think they hired a good DC. Overall, coaching staff process for the Jaguars, making defensive staff changes and no accompanying offensive staff changes to me is a enormous error.

The only reason I have not brought that up yet as a take is because I'm still holding out hope that they make an offensive coaching staff change. But once it's kind of the nails in the coffin, I know they haven't done it, there will be an exploit take and hear you where I go first take Jaguars are screwing this up. There you go. All right. So something to look forward to. All right. Those are all the little nuggets that I saw that have trickled out in the past few days. All right, that will wrap it up for this edition

of Extra Point Taking a good one. An early post-dinner edition of Extra Point Taked. No Monday Night Football. Three games left. We will get to all of them. So all right, So Lack and I we'll be back on Friday previewing the AFC and NFC championship games going over our picks, our props, our long shots, all the good stuff. So stay tuned for that. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo for the video production. Additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna, Rahm Gopal.

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