The Ringer NFL Show - The Business Behind the 2020 Season, Faking Fans, and Virtual Training Camp | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

The Ringer’s Bryan Curtis joins the show to talk about the specific ways this NFL season will differ from past seasons, how money affects the NFL’s preparation for the season, and the role of broadcasters with regard to replicating the passion of a game without fans (1:30). Then, former Packers safety Will Blackmon joins Kevin to chat about Mike McCarthy’s potential in Dallas, how a stunted training camp could benefit certain teams, and the Aaron Rodgers–Jordan Love relationship (24:25). Host: Kevin Clark Guests: Bryan Curtis and Will Blackmon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. This week, the Ringer is launching a new podcast feed called BoomBust. It's a new hub for narrative podcasts documenting the rise and fall of companies, celebrities, and trends. Season one, hosted by our own Alyssa Boresnack, takes you through this spectacular journey of HQ trivia. The once $100 million industry-altering company turned disaster. Alyssa interviewed dozens of former employees, investors, journalists, and fans bringing you the behind-the-scenes story. of how HQ crumbled from within. Subscribe to Boom, bust, HQ, trivia,

and check out the first two episodes out now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I am Kevin Clark, joined today by Brian Curtis and Will Blackman. Talk about two very different things, both been very interesting. We're talking to Brian about what happens if there's a season without fans and what that looks like on TV, what that looks like from a broadcast standpoint,

and basically what you're going to see under television this fall. He has a ton of really good info. And then we talked to former NFL defensive back Will Blackman about Mike McCarthy who we played under, Aaron Rogers, who we played with, has some plenty of Charles Woodson stories. And what I wanted to talk to him about is just what this season will look like with no off season, how teams will be built,

who will benefit, who will not benefit, and he has a lot of good insight on that. So let's start with Brian. Brian Curtis Ringer media legend Wow Is that your official title?

Well we haven't got the new Spotify business cards yet I'll work on it All right We want to talk about What this season's going to look like Because it's going to be weird We have a couple of test cases

With empty stadiums A team was fined For using sex dolls The other day As crowds I feel like that's probably Not going to make its way to America as a trend

UFC had a empty arena event. Has had three empty arena events. They've been okay. NASCAR had an empty arena race last week, empty stadium race. And we've seen the Korean baseball. We've seen German soccer. And we've seen sort of watered down four-person golf.

Brian, when you think about this fall, what do you think is the biggest difference in just the production that we're going to see from a week to week basis when there's just probably, probably no fans in the stance. It's a little bit like the advantage the NFL has had during this whole thing, which is they don't have to do anything for the next few months.

And so all the NFL producers at the networks, you know what they were watching this weekend? NASCAR and the Skins game and Bundesliga because they're watching all these things. I just love the idea of Roger Goodell watching Shalky versus Fire Leverkusen. I did say TV producers. I cannot speak for the. the NFL front office. Okay.

Just, sorry, network producers. But they're watching all that stuff and they're going, well, that was cool. Let's try that or let's steal that idea and refine it a little bit. That sucked. Let's never do that. So they get like three months to basically watch what everybody else does, refine it and then have something that looks allegedly pretty cool for September. A couple of years ago, I was doing a story about softening ticket demand around the NFL

because essentially the problem has become, it is much more convenient and fun and certainly cheaper to watching your living room with an HD TV than it is to get season tickets and spend $20,000 on, you know, to be at the VR line or whatever for a season. I can get PSLs, which is, you know, multiply that by a couple.

And I remember an NFL executive saying something to me that I've thought about constantly since then, which is that I asked them, I said, you make so much money from TV. Do you even care that much? about tickets. And they said, yes, first of all, it's a bigger chunk of revenue than you would think, even though they make obviously billions of dollars in TV. What the other thing is, is the NFL stadiums, the NFL executive told me, are the most valuable TV studios in the world.

Like, it is, it is atmosphere, it is just beautiful settings. People watch the game because they want to see the crowd at Lambo. I don't think that's, you know, 90% of the crowd, but I think that, you know, I think that the television viewing experience is enhanced by, game at Lambo or Soldier Field or Foxborough you know people like seeing those iconic venues filled and it helps and it is the most valuable TV studio in the world. I think that it's going to be a very strange thing but I think that the NFL has to find a way and I don't know if anyone's hit it yet to have the actual atmosphere be replicated when the fans aren't there. I think they have to find a way. Do you think that's CGI fans? Do you think that's pipinging crowd noise?

So I totally agree with the big idea. And I think a lot of it's kind of subtle, right and subliminal. Beyond the actual things we see in the television picture, it's the quality of light. You know, at Lambeau Field, if you have like a four o'clock start late in the fall or in Pittsburgh, right? Those games just, there's just a certain way. The Jerry World, the sun coming in through the windows. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of on the other side. That's like looking right into the sun.

But yes, that's like exactly. There are little things like that that were just queued to be like, this is really, cool. And we may not even be able to articulate it. It's like if you just walk in and watch a movie and you don't know how much the movie was made, you're like, that looks really cool. I think there's a lot of that. CGI fans, I don't understand. I do not understand why I am going to watch a game and subliminally or consciously go, oh, that's really cool that there are fake people in the stands. That particular innovation, it's not off the table. The crowd noise one is more interesting to me because there's a couple levels here, right? It sounds kind of ridiculous, like the laugh track on the sitcom in, you know,

2020 where you're like, no, no, no, no, no. But there is that sort of ambient murmur that when you flip on a baseball game or even a football game between plays, you just hear. And if you don't hear it, it may sound like you're playing a football game in a submarine. So I think the guys I've talked to last couple of weeks, that's one of the big things is just not making it sound weird to human ears to have total silence, which I think some of those soccer games did sound weird this year. Then you get into the advanced audio thing, right? Okay, the ball's at the five yard line. Is there somebody in the truck with a switch going, we're going to turn this up and have

the crowd cheering or booing or whatever. And that gets you just into a whole weird kind of place of invention that I'm not sure anybody's ready to go. Yeah, I do think it would be very funny if there were certain teams that had to have a laugh track ready for. We won't name any of those teams, but they know who they are. Yeah, someone in our soccer slack the other day when we were watching the Bundesliga said that it feels like an under 21 game or like a youth game that's played in a park somewhere

because there was just nothing there. And I think that you have, I think a good example is there's always sort of urban legends and maybe they're confirmed that on some of the golf tournaments that there are kind of ambient noise piped in, and maybe that's birds chirping or whatever. And I think that they need to figure out how that sounds with football. And again, they have months to do it. They'll figure it out. They'll have some preseason games to test out. I understand that. Also, where the games will be played? Will these games be played in Jerry World and Foxborough and in Lambeau Field or will they be played at the Wild World of Sports in Orlando? I think there's just so many unknowns right now that it's interesting.

I want to ask you because when we were talking about the Bundesliga as a staff a couple of days ago, I was actually disappointed with the broadcast. And I think that the broadcast is going to have to carry a lot of this and has to fill in for the passion that isn't going to be there. Because I think with UFC, I think that John Anick and Daniel Cormier and our Spotify colleague Joe Rogan, I think that they were so passionate. and were yelling and hollering and yelling and doing them things they normally do, but because they were exuding passion, it didn't seem like we were missing a lot. Whereas with the Bundesliga, they were doing normal kind of,

you know, soft-spoken soccer commentary that wasn't hollering. And I feel like there was something missing there. And I also think that for, I think the golf was maybe a medium, and I think they'll probably figure that out. But what is the role now? of broadcasts with play-by-play guys, with studios to sort of replicate passion that won't

be all that authentic. Yeah, it's a great question because those guys are so used to having in their ears the sound of the crowd, right? So even if they can't physically hear it in the press box, somebody like Joe Buck, and he was talking about this the other day, has the noise turned way up called effects, turned way up in his ears, right? So what that is, is a cue for his voice that when the sound gets to a certain level, he is going way up. up here to get ahead of that sound, right? So now there's a thing of Joe Buck and Troy Eggman sitting in an empty stadium, perhaps though this is less likely in a TV studio somewhere distant from the stadium and going,

how excited are we supposed to get here? And I guess I think the template is almost like everything that will happen in a game is when the visiting team scores a touchdown. Right. Because you're kind of going against crowd there anyway, right? But you have to be excited, you know. If you're doing a game in Minnesota and the Packers score, you still have to be excited as an announcing game.

Well, that sucked. You know, Kirk Cousins, great. You have to go way back up here for Kirk Cousins. So I think that's just, I think it's almost a mental thing as much as anything. Yeah. And maybe as you say, because you're not surfing off the crowd,

you just have to turn your whole performance up like 10 or 15% to start. Yeah. I agree with that. And I think that that's going to be finding that balance to. I mean, you also, in a strange way, you can also be hooting and hollering and hollering.

and everything else be totally silent and now you sound too eager. Like now you're either because there's no background noise now it's just like now you just sound like a maniac. So I think finding that balance I think strangely I think

that every NFL broadcaster, main broadcaster is probably pretty well equipped for that. Like I think Al Michaels is going to find that really quickly. I think Jim Nance and Joe Buck are going to find that really quickly. Again, I think there's other sports

where that doesn't necessarily translate. Do you think that the networks are going to have to do, go ahead. Well, I was just going to add one more point, too, is how much does the NFL let the players do do this for them, right? Right. That was, that was giving me my next question. Yeah. Is there, is there another level of miced up? Is that kind of thing? Or how do they, how do they, you know, I think that Germany, you could hear the, the yelling on the German soccer field over the weekend. The problem was, I don't speak German, so I can't really, I can't really comment on like, how much that brought me inside the game because it might have been the equivalent of what we

hear with like the NBA huddles where it's just Steve Clifford yelling energy or it might have been something. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Every NFL films think, come on, man. We're going to go out there to play football. Let's go. Let's go. So I think there'll be a lot of that because we, we know the NFL is not going to allow that amazing. And I thought this is one the most amazing things about the XFL was hearing the coach call the play into the quarterback. That was awesome. That will never work in the, in the NFL. Then you've got the problem like bad words, right? So you put it on a

delay, you have somebody sitting there being like great to dump out all the time if you're miced it up. But there's got to be something other than the announces you're bringing in. I do not endorse the Jerry Lewis telethon approach that the skins game had. Well, let's get the, here's President Trump calling in. Bill Murray. Yeah. Bill Murray

calling in. But you're going to have to get sound somehow. Now maybe you also just mic everything up on the field a lot more. So you just hear a lot more tackling, right? Those are sounds that are in an NFL broadcast already. They're pretty low, but maybe you can jack those up so it just feels like you're standing on a sideline and hitting hearing that pad hit like that a little bit more. And maybe that'll help too.

That's my thought. So there's a couple of things I can learn from UFC. Number one was the UFC going and one of our ringer colleague said this and I keep laughing about it. The corner men went full quote, gorilla monsoon on the judges because. every time there was a punch thrown, it was, wow, look at that, because they wanted to sway the judges, because there's no crowd to react for them. I would say the same thing is going to happen with referees, where there's going to be a lot more, you know, if you thought the calling for fouls was bad before, it's going to be even worse when there was no crowd to react. The benches will probably be more emotive.

I think that there's probably going to be just a change in behavior when there's no crowd. and I feel like they have to take, the NFL has to take advantage and getting mics as close as possible. I think there's probably a bit of a delay. I remember talking to someone on the NFL film side, the NFL production side, I'm going to work for NFL films,

but the NFL kind of media side. And they said essentially, so NFL teams have, have a say over what comes out on sort of the, the miced up segments after the game. I don't actually know. when the Sam

Donald seeing ghosts thing came out a lot of this a lot of the in-game stuff was talked about but as far as like you know two NFL films three weeks later best of Steve Young

miced up or whatever right those things go through a number of layers and I was told one time that essentially if the unedited stuff got out really any game it'd be really bad

it'd be real real real bad like these guys are not gentle gentle with each other. And so there will have to be some accounting for that. Totally. And I think from what I've heard from the NFL's perspective is it's both stuff like, we just can't let anybody ever hear that. Like that would be terrible to the seeing ghost thing where it's like, this is going to be 19 news stories this week that this player just doesn't need or want. And then I think the third is kind of the MPA ratings board thing where you don't mind a couple cuss words, but like 500 cuss words. Like there's a cut off where you're like, okay,

we've had 250 F-bombs. Now we've got to chop this. And that's kind of the decision everybody's making. Yeah, and extremely personal stuff. There's a lot of working blue. I'll say that. There's a lot of working blue on an NFL field. And I think that that will come out when this happens.

And I think it'll be really interesting. Brian, anything else that we're not talking enough about with this stuff? I think no, because I think. at this point, everybody's just making it up, you know, as they go along. Everybody I talked to this week, I mean, we had that kind of weird news cycle where Joe Buck put the ideas of the crowd noise and the fans into the stands and some people took that and thought decisions have been made. And one thing I just say from talking to people this week, no decisions have been made about anything. Nobody knows. Nobody's ever done this before. So I think the other thing that's interesting in this is producers are

basically like NFL coaches. There are a number of Ron Rivera types in the truck who are like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, innovation. Whoa. That's easy kids. And then there are some that are in the more of the Kyle Shanahan Mall, which is like, this is the challenge. Great. Let's, let's do a hundred, let's throw a hundred things at the wall and try to figure this out and be a completely different game than we were in 2019. And so that's going to be, I mean, again, maybe just to people like me, but that's fascinating too with those kind of different approaches where you're like, how much do we need to change in NFL game?

Or is just the fact. that we have NFL games in September are going to be so exciting. And again, knock on wood for the American public that we just need to put it on TV and that'll be the biggest thing. I think that is exactly right. We don't know anything.

And that's part of the problem. We don't know again, again, where the games will be held. We don't know, I mean, what the schedule will look like. Will there be preseason games where they can work out the mechanics of it all? Or will they all be in one? Will they all, all these games you played on UNLV's campus or whether we play in the home stadiums. I mean, it's just, it is such an unknown that it's

almost impossible to plan right now. You know, I know from my perspective, the only thing I'm planning for is just not being able to go to facilities and talking to players. Everything else, I'm just leaving open and we'll see in July. Because I would be shocked if things pick up so quickly that I can sit five feet from Dak Prescott on August 15th and ask him about his contract. Oh, totally. I don't know. Fox executive tell me the other day, said the thing about sports television, and we could say this about sports generally, is it never stops. Even when the Super Bowl is over, there's just NASCAR or something is starting. And everybody turns to the right and then does that.

And this is one of the only times the TV industry as a whole has had time to just like take this giant breath and be like, now what do we do? What should all this stuff look like? Do we send the announcers or do we not send the announcers? Do we, how do we mic up the players like we're talking about? and it could be this kind of amazing moment of innovation in a part of the world that, you know, doesn't always innovate maybe as fast as it needs to. Yeah, no, I totally agree. It'll be fascinating to watch. My dad, over the course of this conversation, my dad just email me about NASCAR.

I have no idea why. My dad has not emailed me about NASCAR ever in his life. I don't think he's watched a race in 25 years. And somehow NASCAR has cut through to the point that I have in my inbox, say NASCAR email. Do you see that stat that like 40, was it 40% of the people watched the race had not watched a NASCAR race in forever? So now your dad is one of them. I bet on the NASCAR race. You did?

Yes. Did you win? I won six bucks. At one point I was first, I took a screen grab. I took a screen grab. I was number one in a daily fantasy pool. Wow. Like a hundred laps in.

I took a screen grab and then I ended up winning $6, which is not first place. NASCAR is back. NASCAR is back. The thing is that I whatever is a competition right now that is on Sunday afternoon, it's like I love golf and I would have watched that seminal thing

no matter what and I would have watched it even if 100 of the sports were going on. But I think NASCAR is filled a void. I mean, even UFC got 700,000 buys for their first pay-per-view back. And that was not, you know, such an elite carder they would normally get 700,000 buys on the ESPN Plus platform.

People are really, I think that the Bundesliga in America might be a bridge too far as far as just everyone, you know, tuning in to see Wolfsburg. But I feel like any sport that is thrown on on a network right now on Sunday afternoon will be consumed. I just got a press release that bowling is coming back June 6. So we may be testing that, testing that theory. Depends what they're up against. Depends if they're up against NASCAR, which is now America's pastime. Yeah, why not? Kyle Troop.

So you did a story on the NASCAR broadcast and Mike Joy and all that stuff. What were the things that stood out to you as far as what those guys have to do to do remote broadcasting? And how is that going to play out over the next couple of months when it probably starts happening in multiple sports? On one hand, it's incredibly hard because you have to watch 40 cars, which Mike Joy told me was like watching 40 balls in play in another sport, as opposed to a football announcer.

If he's watching a game remotely, right, he can kind of. follow the ball. It's a little bit harder on long passes, but you can kind of just follow the ball. That's number one. But number two is what we're talking about a second ago. NASCAR really doesn't have a crowd at least as like an active participant in the race in the same way that a football game does. So it's not like you're waiting for the crowd to go crazy at certain points in the race and to become this big part of the telecast. It's kind of this roar the whole way. So in a way, I think it was harder in a way it was easier for them to do that. And you saw there was a little bit like drone action right during that during that race stuff like that is another one on this afternoon

by the way there's a there's a lot of NASCAR racing on so i think they're probably in the laboratory right now too going how do we do this there's a NASCAR race on right now i'm pretty sure right three o'clock pacific yeah this is amazing we're just doing NASCAR around the clock forgive me if i misread the schedule did they steal did they steal Dana white's fight island plan they just they're just crank it out raises I did notice bowling is in Florida. By the way. I will say, I will say that given the fact that it's just cars,

NASCAR is oddly equipped to this race every day. Sure. Just refill the tank. Keep going, you know. I mean, they are, I do. There is obviously, you know, their drivers are exhausted and all that stuff after the race. And I'm not, I'm not taking a shot at anybody who is a NASCAR driver. But I'm just saying, you can do that more than you can play football.

Oh, yeah. Or fight in the UFC. Let's just say that. yeah absolutely absolutely they had some crazy number of races that those fox guys are calling within like a couple weeks we're just gonna you've been to a nascar race in your life no indy but not nascar oh now i kind of want to go now that i've been on one and now that i can't you've never been to go to one in two years no what kind of southerners are we i i don't understand i've watched a lot of naskar my brother was a huge naskar fan but i've never been to a race as a huge i've driven i've driven on the track at detona

just as like a as a bit. And then I've also driven strangely on the Darlington track as well, just as like in a regular car. Incredible time in American life where people say, if you want to understand America, real America, you need to go to a NASCAR race, to which I and I assume you said, no, no, I went to a college football school. So I got that. I got it. Or just live in Orlando, Florida.

And you'll understand America really quickly. I'm all good. Yeah. Brian Curtis, Dak Prescott over under $40 million. What was the thing? 45.

He's asking for 45. That was the fake last year of his contract. Was that what it was? I don't understand. The Dak Prescott negotiations have entered our boss, Bill Simmons' Tyson's own,

where I'm just ready to believe anything. Like every, the thing that happens with Doc Prescott's contract and this has been happening for a year and it's going to keep happening because he's a really good quarterback for the most important team

in American sports. But, every time most popular team in American sports every time there's a rumor about his salary demands there's nine other reports to see something completely different and I just don't I just

it's kind of it's even though it's a hugely important story it's it's kind of edging towards wake me up when it's over territory yes yes I'm a Cowboys fan and I have been completely unable to follow the plot of what happened other than the very simple plot of Dag Prescott bed on himself

to use a nice sports take. And he won, right? He had a great season. And now he should get more money than if he had signed last year, right? Like he put himself in another pay tier of quarterbacks, I think. Is that fair to say? And here we are. Pay the man. Yep. And he might be going the Kirk Cousins route and just trying to play out the tag and reach true free agency, in which case he would make unprecedented amounts of money. But I think it's one more fascinating things to watch if he does that. If he's just going to resign and we're was going to go through the song and dance, then just somebody just get this done. I'm over it. And he had a party the other day. Remember that? He had a party. And that was another story where

the initial report comes out. And then there was 11 reports afterwards that just say completely different things. And I was just like, I don't, I know I've lost interest in the story. All right. Brian Curtis, what a great way to end. I've lost interest in this story. It's a good time to kill the segment right there. Thanks for having me, Keanu. Thanks so much, man. Okay, joined by Will Blackman, 10-year NFL defensive back, NFL analyst, wine connoisseur at this point. I would say beyond connoisseur. What is beyond connoisseur?

I would say Somalia now. Okay. And the reason is connoisseur, it's my opinion, that it's just someone who has a really huge interest in wine. Okay. When you get to the Somali point, you are now an education. of wine. You serve wine. You teach about wine.

All right. Well, we're going to teach about football momentarily here. Maybe we'll get to the wine a little bit later. But I want to talk to you because you came into the league under Mike McCarthy in 2006. And you played for that Packers team. And I've become obsessed with what this season's going to look like because there's not going to be an offseason.

And there may not be a regular training camp. and the things that we all have agreed upon to help a football team build, those things are not going to exist this year. Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys are getting a lot of hype right now. A couple of people, I've seen a couple smart people who put him to win the Super Bowl or get close to it. And I think there's a lot of people in football who think that any coach who wasn't Jason Garrett would have been a lot better with that roster last year.

And that's why there's a McCarthy bump this year. Knowing what you know about Mike McCarthy, knowing what you know about this offseason, having gone through all of this before. You were in the league in 2011, even though you were hurt for that offseason. We'll get to that in a second. Do you think Mike McCarthy can build his culture or a team or whatever you want to call it in this kind of fake off season enough to get rolling in September and have the Cowboys be a legitimate contender? I feel like, I believe he could for the simple fact that now these players aren't children anymore.

you know, these they have dealt with some adversity. They've been playing together for a little bit. So in terms of the grand scheme of things of teaching guys how to win games, teaching guys how to practice, teaching guys how to prepare, no, I think he'll be just fine, just for the suspect of that. Because my comparison, yes, it would be his first year as a head coach in Green Bay of the same year I was drafted in 2006,

that he inherited a team that was mature. Now, we were way more mature at that. I mean, we had a 35-year-old Brett Barre at the time, among other guys. But it was a team that had some maturity. And I just feel like this team is, this should be the year where they hit their maturation point, if you will. Where would you rank them among NFC contenders right now, the Cowboys? Right now, I can see them simply, I can see them as the favorites just because Washington is unknown.

Right. Especially offensively. Right. You just don't know. And I mean, they have... And they also, by the way, have a same issue, which is Ron Rivera is trying to, quote, unquote, build a culture and he's not going to be able to see his guys told you why wrong.

Well, they did a complete organization overhaul. Right. Which is to figure out what that looks like. You know, the potential looks great, especially defensively. And then New York, once again, unknown. Yeah. You don't know, especially what's the health of Saquan? what's, you know, what's the defense going to look like in the secondary?

We don't know about that. And I feel like Philadelphia is another unknown. We know what they're capable of, even dealing with all kinds of adversity. But is everyone going to be healthy? I feel like if every team is at full strength, I think I like Philly. But what's going to hurt them, too, is the loss of Malcolm Jenkins leaving. Right. That's really going to.

put a huge hole in that team. I agree with that. And I think that there's a lot of questions about Malcolm Jenkins and his departure and what that means. And I think that in the secondary, obviously they do very different things, the different position, but I think Darius Slay being added,

even though it was pricey, I think that helps. And I think that the Eagles are a little stronger on paper than they've been given credit for. I think the Howard Roseman did a better job than maybe the fan base thinks in Philadelphia. Right. But why do you add a Darius slay?

Because you need a defense backs. You need a, well, in that division specifically. Right. Oh, right. Right. Amari, you know, and then you go to Washington with Terry. Yeah. And then New York, you know, I guess you can say Shepard or Golden Tate, whatever the two.

I don't think you add it for Golden Tate or Shepard. But yes, no, I get your point, especially with. Be nice. But I agree. I get your point. I like him as a person. I like him as a person. I just don't think,

I think when you're, I think your point is correct about Slay. When you add Slay, it's to stop Dallas, maybe some Washington options. But it's different, but because Malcolm was, he could line up everywhere.

Darius, right. You got to get a lockdown corner on the team. So, okay. So I want to talk broadly about what, what this offseason looks like. You're a veteran. You went through 2011. You were injured at that point,

but then you ended up on the team in November that won the Super Bowl that year. when you don't have an off-season, what are the things that happen to the league? What happens to players? What happens to teams that we're not thinking enough about? Well, you're going to see, I think, the reverse in terms of when you have a full off-season, it is your chance to get all the young guys prepared up to speed and ready to play. 2020 is going to be the year of the Whitewalkers.

Okay? Okay, all the old Gs, all the old school quarterbacks, all the players that are eight years or more, all the best at veterans, this is going to be the year for them. They're going to have a full offseason of recovery. I remember even playing in Green Bay, like the guys, like Charles Woodson didn't come to off-season training. Like all the veterans didn't come to all-season training. They came to mandatory minicamp because mandatory, obviously. But I can see, you know, right now, you know, Big Ben is healthy, you know. He cut his hair, but obviously for like a good reason, but he's on a private jet traveling to go train.

You know, Brady's already getting back to work. Philip Rivers has a full offseason of wrestling with his minor rate in Indianapolis. I think it's going to be a year for those guys who are older that's going to succeed. Because those guys would love, they've been playing so long, they would love to not go to training. When Michael Strayhan held out in 2007 and skipped training camp, I think he got fined over like 200 grand. And he was like, man, had I known that was the going rate, I paid 200 grand every single year to skip training camp. So I think, I know I'm being funny right now, but in all seriousness, I feel like this is going to be the year of veterans come back to life. Yeah.

No, I am in agreement with that. I think the continuity is going to be so important. and something I've said a bunch in this podcast as far as Kansas City. Like it's going to be really hard if you're an AFC West team to get as good as Kansas City this offseason. Like it is hard to grow and leave some bounds. I think that the balance point in Kansas City. Exactly.

And nothing. And Baltimore only got better. You had Callais Campbell and a couple other options, especially through the draft. And, and you know, right, the running back,

right? Yeah, exactly. And I think that there will be, I think there will be some rookies who are able to make the jump and have an impact. I think in 2011, people like Cam Newton, people like JJ Watt, they came in and had instant impact because they were talented. But as you said, the Giants won the Super Bowl with a fairly veteran squad. The New England Patriots were really good with a veteran squad, the New Orleans

Saints, teams like that that had done it before who didn't need a training camp. We beat the nineers, who was a favorite that year. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And it was funny because the NFL.com did the story of the day about how Jim Harbaugh was able to overcome the odds and was the rare coach in 2011 to be a rookie head coach come in, build his culture, do all that. But I think Jim Harbaal was just, he was just kind of a unicorn back then. He was just an incredible coach. And that was a team that was ready to break out, by the way. I mean, there was a lot of roster talent that he inherited. I want to talk about Aaron Rogers because obviously you played with him and you lived through the far of Roger's saga. I was in the heat of the battle. You lived through that. And I, I wonder, as someone

who had a front row seat to that, how you think Rogers and Jordan Love will play out in the next two or three years? I think this is just going to elevate Aaron Rogers' style of play. He is the absolute ultimate competitor. I feel like he's not the type

to look over his shoulder, but he understands the game because he was on the other side himself. If you're in a quarterback and you still feel like you're in your prime, you're doing very, very well. You bring in a guy in the first round, let alone bring a guy. You draft the quarterback in the first round. first round. That says everything. I don't care what good and Kud says. Like, he's, he's, he's getting,

he has a cessation plan in case right there, you know. And, um, and that's how Brett Farr felt, you know, they drafted Rogers in 05 first round quarterback. Brett Farr felt like he still had another five, six years left. So he's like, what the heck's going on? You know what I'm saying? So he's like, well, I'm going to play. I'm going to play hard. And then ended up bringing us to the NFC championship game in 2007 with that awful, awful, awful defeat. Oh, my gosh. Anyhow. But yeah, I just, I just feel like he's going to have an outstanding season this year.

You know, they, I see what they're doing. They brought, they drafted the runnerback out of BC, A.J. Dillon and also, I think they got a tight end too, a blocky. Yep, they went. They got very bulky in the same way, almost like Matt Lafleur obviously is familiar with that Shanahan style thing. Right. Lots of play. He wants to be the, yeah, he wants to be Niners Midwest.

Right. Lots of play action. That's what it is. It's the 90 Broncos, right? They run up, they just better run the ball, I end throw play action, which is actually going to help Aaron Rogers

to create more space. And he's, he's a very athletic quarterback. So it's going to help him, and I believe that's why he's going to have an outstanding season. What, what,

when you think about that Favre Rogers, heat or whatever you want to call it, that era, What was the craziest story you remember, the most intense moment where you were just like, I cannot believe how intense this has got? You know, what I can commend is that any business or drama that happened on that team in Green Bay, it stayed upstairs. And when I reference upstairs, I'm always meeting the front office in the executive. So anytime I say that's usually where those offices are in facilities. So it always stayed upset.

It never came down to the locker room where we felt split or torn. We knew we were good either way, you know what I'm saying? So, for example, we're in practice, right? We're going against Brett Farr of with the starters. And then the backups come in and it's Aaron Rogers. So a lot of times we were going into games against quarterbacks who weren't even better than our backup. Right. You know what I'm saying?

So we are, we knew, okay, one. Once far takes off, like, we're going to be good because this dude is legit, you know. And the third-string quarterback at the time was Matt Flynn, who was playing well for that part. He was in Green Bay. Yeah. I want to talk about 2011 again because you were hurt during that period. You didn't go through the normal off-season. What really happened was that was the 11.

Yeah, you're right. Was the lockout year, yes. Yeah, I was healed. I just didn't get signed until later in 11. season. Okay. And so you go with the Giants, but how did that offseason, because that is the only thing we have analogous to this

off season, but how were guys preparing for that offseason? What was different? Were they just finding parks to be at, or they, you know, text three other guys who down the street they knew, played in the NFL? You know, you saw the report today. I think Danny Amandola and Baker Mayfield are working out together.

I mean, this is, this time is making, you know, very strange alliances, because people can't just go and go to their NFL facility right now. How did that offseason play out? And what did guys do differently that maybe guys now can learn from? Well, the thing is, if you're not learning a new system, you know, then I feel like in terms of exos, you're going to be okay

as long as you are able to study and watch film yourself. And I know they're doing Zoom meetings, what coaches, what have you. But in terms of physical training, this actually works in guys' favor. because this time of year they prefer to go to their specialist, you know, their performance specialist because it's catered directly to them. I feel bad for strength conditioning coaches on teams because they have to create a program for, you know, 60, 70 guys. They all do

the same thing. You have to try to find a way to get them faster, stronger, but not get them injured, you know. So they're limited with the resources and a type of training they can do where when these guys go to these specialized facilities and performance centers, they're able to do all that stuff. So if guys could, they would rather stay at their own places. Yeah, that's that's an interesting point. I saw a couple people, I've talked to a couple people about this and what changes as far as you can, when you're on the Zoom calls, you're just doing more tape study. You're doing more learning with, you know,

it's more intellectual than a normal all season would be because you can't even walk through it. you can't even go and practice it. You're just learning if Dan Quinn is telling you about certain coverages, you're just going to learn it over Zoom and that's it. If guys are watching more tape and if guys are actually studying more because they have to, because there's nothing else to do or because they're mandated because they're sitting in a classroom on their laptop instead of a normal practice, is there any place that's going to show up on the field that we're not thinking enough

about where it's, you know, whether or not that's, it's two-sided. Are the players going to be smarter than? year and less physically capable because they can't tackle or whatever? I mean, how do you expect this 2020 season to play out when there's more tape study and less physical activity? And that's, once again, where I come in with, okay, this is a year where I predict veterans to stand out and do extremely well. Because the issue is, especially for these young guys, regardless if you're forced to stay

at home and study, you still have to learn how to study. You know what I'm saying? And that was the biggest thing. That was my biggest adjustment is, okay, I would watch film, but I'm just watching it. And it would be like boring. And I didn't really know what to watch. I'm just watching the game. I didn't know how to break it down and truly apply myself how to study.

I didn't learn how to study film. And I was a smart, you know, high IQ football player. And I didn't really know how to truly study film until year three in the NFL. And I would, yeah, I would sit in meetings and watch with the coach. I would try to watch when I went home, but I still didn't understand it. So I remember one day after practice, I was just so fed up. I'm like, I'm over here looking at Charles Woodson, who sometimes doesn't even practice. And he goes into games and has two picks.

So one night I went back to the facility. It was like seven to eight o'clock at night. And I'm like, I'm going to learn how to watch this damn film. So when I walk into the, in the meeting room, there was this fluorescent light from the projector was on. Meaning, if somebody's in there or somebody just left. So I walk into the room and, well, behold, it was true. Charles Woodson. It was like a stadium style seat. So he was really on the top part where the computer was. And he said, what's up, young buddy? He said, come sit down and have a seat and watch

film. And he told me, he said, hey, I'm going to show you a few things. He showed me like formations. He showed me down the distances. Lots of situational football. And basically what he did to set himself up to make plays, that's something that I would not be able to find out on my own. You know what I mean? Unless I show some, unless I had somebody show me how to do that. And then once I was like, okay, this is how you set it up. This is how you look for film. This is how you study situation of football. Because Kevin, as you know, like, everyone is, everyone's fat.

Everyone has some kind of mutant powers, you know, whether you play or whether you watch it, you know that these guys are special athletes. But the difference is mentally, it's all situational football. That's why New England is in it every year because they'll check the situational master. So that's, I can see a lot of young guys struggling to try to figure out how to watch film on their own. So that's what you might see even. It might be a situation where a young guy that they picked up might have to ride the pine for a little bit and they have to pick up a vet.

Is there a thing you can point to where once you went out of study film it unlocked a part of football that you didn't even know was possible to unlock once you started watching it from that perspective? Yeah, because basically what it came down to. I'll take you through it. I just told, you know, a player, he asked him the similar question of how to watch film. Yeah. And I broke it down in sections because I pretty much studied according to the practice plan. So if Wednesdays, I knew we were going to study first and second down, Tuesday night I would review first and second down.

I don't watch anything else. So therefore I'm ahead of the game. So Wednesdays, I review. Then Wednesday night, I watched third down because that's what we're going to do on Thursdays. and then Thursday practice third down review and then Fridays was like was a red zone goal line two minute and so on and then when I finally watch a full game I put all the pieces together where I'm like okay I know on third and third and 10 you know somebody's running a dig route you know I know on this certain down a distance they're doing this and then when you get into the game it's like okay you trust all the preparation from the coaches you trust all the preparation from yourself and then the game is just absolutely slow motion. So it unlocked it in terms of this, like, believe what you see. Like coaches aren't, they're not, every coach, every coordinator is a creature of habit.

He's not going to really change much as what he does. So that's where it unlocked for me was, okay, you're playing the game now because you saw every situation. Yeah. Is there a, you know, you hear about Zoom coaching sessions and all this stuff. Is there, would you, I guess it sounds like you'd recommend almost like player to player Zoom sessions too because you get someone like whoever the modern day Charles Woodson is giving that info as well. It seems like there's probably opportunities to simulate that sort of

thing as well as just the defensive backs coach, you know, talking to 10 guys in a Zoom call. I can see that, but it would have to be former player. Okay. Because I can see a situation where you have a guy that's, you know, for his position. and he may not want to be in a situation where he feels like sharing and helping other people you know

even when I was drafted you know Charles Wilson was signed the same year and he's like look I'll never really go out of my way but if you ask me I'll help you you know what I'm saying

so he said yeah they brought me here to pay a lot of money but they're still going to try to find a way if they can find somebody better they're going to do so you know what I'm saying

so I can see it from like an outside source maybe NFL PA NFL trust or something that they offer something like that, you know, how to watch film. But I can't really see, unless a veteran is like cool, he just wants to get back before he leaves, but that's rare right now. Yeah, no, no, I get that. All right, how much wine are you drinking right now? Not right now.

It's only 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Or maybe it is right now. No, usually, usually I hit about, I usually try about 100 wines by between 10 and 11 because I'm trying to find new wines for my subscription box. but I'm jaking probably maybe three glasses a day. Is that, how tall are you? 6.1. So that's not bad, right?

No, I'm not getting, I am not getting wasted. I actually, I'm actually trying wine as homework, as evaluation. Saturdays, like dinner, I'll have it leisurely, and then Saturdays we have like a good neighborhood,

quarantine drinking hour that we all sing, hang outside in our lawn chairs. and have wine. That's funny. I drink wine when I study. That's what I did. There you go. Got it.

All right. Last question before we get you out of here. If there are no fans issue, what does that change about the way the sport is played? Is it going to change the way players communicate because everyone's able to hear them? Does it change the way, you know, I think it was interesting watching the UFC a couple days ago where they, you know, the corners were yelling every time there was a punch thrown because they were trying to sway the judges or, you know, it was that kind of thing. I mean, I think

there's going to be a million little tiny things with no crowd, if there's no crowd, that I think are going to be extremely impactful. When you think about playing without fans, that changes the game, how? It changes the game, first of all, completely because, one, there's there's no more home field advantage. Right. There's no more momentum swings from a fans perspective. Or the reps. All the reps.

Yeah, you're not going to have the coaches saying like, all right, man, let's punch it in and take the crowd out of it. Well, there's no crowd. Okay. You go to Arrowhead Stadium is going to be quiet, which is, you know, I think the loudest stadium. And you're not going to be thinking of dreading places to play. I remember I used to hate going to New Orleans because they were just rowdy. They were just unbelievable, like just crazy. You know, you're not going to have that.

So it's going to change tremendously. Yeah, they're going to use the fake crowd noise like we do in practice. But it's tough because that's where it is. It's all about the fans. People always ask me, what is the one thing you miss about playing professional football? And I would say for most people, nine to ten times, they say, I miss the camarader. I miss hanging out with my teammates in the locker room. Me, I miss walking out onto that field like a gladiator.

Like you, I strapped the helmet up and you just go through the tunnel where it's quiet and you hear like the muffled, you know, crowd noise. As soon as you walk out there, it's just absolutely nuts. That's the most thrilling part about it, you know, and that's what's going to stink about not having the fans there because that's, it's all about it. I love it. I embrace it if they chair me.

I embrace if they're booing me. I remember when I scored a touchdown against the Vikings, I jumped in the crowd, and the Viking fans threw beer on me. I actually got a couple of, I got a couple of sips. And meanwhile, to it,

so yeah, that's going to be tough to miss all that. The rivalry is not going to be the same. When I was at the New Orleans, Rams, NSG championship game two years ago. And I was in the press box, and it's an open-air press box there.

And I remember being legitimately stunned how loud it was inside the Superdome. I mean, on it, like, you almost think there's something wrong with you. It's like, I've never heard a noise this loud. Like, is there something wrong with my ears? I remember being like, am I going to be able to write during this? Let alone, I couldn't imagine, like, remembering my defensive assignments as a player. Like, I was just like, I can't even like send a tweet right now.

It's so loud. Right. But you're working, but at the same time, you're also enjoying it as a consumer. I think when you're down the field, you're just so ready to, first of all, make sure you don't get your head taken off. And then maybe you're trying to take someone else's head off. But yeah, I'm telling you, that place is absolutely bananas. And that's not going to be the same.

Because especially since we're talking about New Orleans, that is a place that completely thrives off community, especially what they've gone through as a city. You know, it's all about them. So it's going to be totally different. But at the same time, you know, as long as we have football still, that's going to be big. It's going to be a stranger.

Will Blackman. Thank you so much for joining us. No, I appreciate you, buddy.