The Ringer NFL Show - The Colts’ Sunday Was Not About Saturday, Sean Payton’s Imminent Return, McDaniel Is the New McVay, and More Big Takeaways From Week 10 | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Ben and Sheil begin their review of Week 10 action by debating how much influence new coach Jeff Saturday had on the Indianapolis Colts’ impressive win over the Raiders. They then go over all the reasons to not be concerned about the Bills’ collapse against the Vikings, and reveal that there are nearly as many reasons to fear for the Saints’ dim future (9:18). Next, Sheil speculates on Sean Payton’s next coaching destination, and Ben tells the Rams to give Matthew Stafford a rest if Cooper Kupp is unavailable the rest of the season (28:33). They end the pod by talking about how Dolphins coach Mike McDaniel’s star is shining similarly to another big coaching name from last year, and Ben gives the week’s Extra Point (46:15). Hosts: Ben Solak and Sheil Kapadia Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. Come to Extra Point Taken.

I'm Shield Kapari. As always, joined by Ben Solak, who was already tweeting, making fun of me for not being able to use a webcam properly because I'm the old

uncle on the Ringers NFL staff. But that's okay. We're doing things a little bit differently this week. Instead of, if you want some Monday night football, Eagles commanders,

talk, head over to the Ringers Philly Special. We've got you covered there. Good hosts. Good hosts on that podcast there. Great hosts. Absolutely. They do a great job.

Yeah. we are going to talk about the rest of the NFL, all the other stuff that's happening. We're recording this before Monday night football. Hopefully you know the deal by now. We each have three takes coming off the week that was. We might be looking ahead. We might be looking back.

We might be looking big picture. We might be looking small picture. Who knows? We're going to share them here. We don't know what each other is going to say. We could agree, disagree. Benjamin, now that you've helped me. Well, I don't know that you helped me with my webcam.

You don't really solve the problem. I mean, if you were like, if you were attacked. I gave you the solution. You can't find the app, all right? Anybody who's ever tried to help a generation up knows that you can give the solution, but if they can't figure out where the little window is, you're dead in the water. Bad teacher, blaming the student.

I resent that. All right. So let's forget about the technology talk. You're getting us started today. You're going to have the extra point at the end. What is your first take this week? Take number one. The Colts beating the Raiders had nothing to do with Jeff Saturday.

It's nice. Like, I'll put it up. Let's take the other side. If I were a, like, diehard Colts fan and I were having the season that the Colts are having, disappointing season, came in with AFC South aspirations, we're finally going to have a quarterback good enough to get us over the hump of this carousel. And for the season to start the way it did, and to have the Ryan benching for Sam Ellinger debacle, and then have the firing of Frank Reich to hire Jeff Saturday in a very poorly explained and defended radical move at the head coaching position

to then become the punching bag of sports media for a few weeks, but certainly to have it culminating crescendo to that week of the Jeff Saturday Presser and all the criticism around that higher. Yeah, if I were a huge Colts fan slash Jim Ursaid in the Colts organization, I would take my victory lap on Jeff Saturday after he won one game.

Mostly because I'm not confident he's going to win more games, so I might as well stick it to him while I'm up 1-0. But you had Jim Mersey just out here tweeting like everybody, you know, doubted. He says that like, who's been crappin or something? I have no idea what he was talking. Oh, I didn't even see this. Who's been crappin?

Jim Mersey was tweeting, as Jim Mersey does. The Colts won and O under Jeff Saturday, beat the Raiders 25 to 20. When you watch the Colts play, I mean, like, you know, there's, again, like, there's an instinct because Saturday is this remarkable thing that's changed to say like, oh, wow, the offensive of line

playing better because Jeff Saturday is helping them play better, which, like, I don't think that's how coaching works. Even if Saturday is a really good coach, I don't think you can get into the building for the first time on Tuesday, and then by Sunday have the offensive line playing better. Like, to me, that's just, that doesn't, that doesn't compute in terms of, like, anytime I try to do anything simple in my life, I can't get it, like, locked down in five days, you know, like, it's hard. So, like, I don't think that that tracks. I think what is a far more explicable line of reasoning, a far more understandable, intuitive line of reasoning is this team didn't play Matt Ryan

in week eight and week nine. I thought Matt Ryan was benched. The reason I thought Matt Ryan was benched was because Frank Reich and Jim Ursay and Jeff Saturday all said at varying times that Matt Ryan was benched and that Sam Eljur be the starter for the rest of the season. Colts fans are very upsettingly telling me that actually Matt Ryan was injured for the last two weeks, and that's why Sam Ellinger played, which isn't what the team said, but whatever, I'll give you that. Jonathan Taylor was back, played over 70% of the snaps for the first time

since week four, right? Previously when Naim Hines was on this team, even when he was healthy, 75% of the snaps, they were split in, he was doing the early down stuff, played 94% of the snaps. They had their best player back on the field after missing week nine, after missing week six and week five, they had a best player back on the field, and he played the whole game. again, like, if we're going to give Jeff Saturday credit for being like, let's just play Jonathan Taylor the whole time. Okay, that's good. Congrats to Jeff Saturday. The last and most important thing to note in this game is that they're playing the Las Vegas Raiders,

who just are really, really, really bad football team. And the Colts were four-point dogs, you know, Vegas, the gambling institution thought that the Raiders were going to be better. And turns out the Colts were. So you can absolutely say, hey, like, the Colts were underdogs. Like, the Raiders should have won the game. and the Colts were better than expected, and that has something to do with Jeff Saturday. Sure.

You know, we can kind of like retcon as much as we want about like, well, actually Matt Ryan was benched because of the shoulder separation. And then Jeff Saturday fought to have Matt Ryan as the starter, even though Jim Mercy said during the week and Jeff Saturday said during the week that Ellenger was going to be the starter and this and that and everything. We can do the whole nine yards with like creating the reality where this like all culminates with like the incredible hiring and dawn of Jeff Saturday. I saw a pretty bad Colts team be a worse Raiders team

because their impact players. Matt Ryan and Jonathan Taylor were back on the field. I'm excited to see what continues to happen in Indy and morbidly curious about the Jeff Saturday experience. I'm not going to sit here and be like, wow, want to know Jeff Saturday. My opinion has changed on this higher. It isn't.

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm being a little hesitant here just because it's like, if you're a Colts fan, this season's been terrible for you. You won a fun game on Sunday. go ahead and enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with that. Right. I got no problem with that.

And Saturday seems like a likable guy. Like if he's the coach of the team you root for, you know what I mean? Like, no one's, there's been no personal attacks on Jeff Saturday. Like, look at this guy's history. He was a terrible teammate or a terrible friend or a terrible. Like people seem to generally like him and likability matters.

And when you root for teams as a fan, you want likable people to root for. Having said that, I'm with you. Yeah, I'm looking at the tweet now. Jim Mersey said, all you critics, you criticize all of us in the NFL for, When we make moves to win, you act so righteous, quote, who you crappin, unquote, just win, baby.

So there you got, I would say, is that a quote? Did somebody say that? Is that a thing that said? I pulled that up. I didn't Google who you crappin. I'm sure it is. Maybe it's in a song. I don't know.

This was really a coin flip type of game. The Raiders had the worst defense in the, you know, bottom three, worst defense in the NFL, depending on what metric you looked at. But the big point is that the Ryan Ellis. Ellinger thing. I mean, when they benched Ryan for Ellinger at first, it was like, wait, Ryan has an injury issue, but then Frank Reich was as specifically, and it was, no, you know, we were going to Ellinger anyway, and Ellinger's going to be the QB the rest of the way. And by the way, very reliable reporting from Indianapolis. You didn't have to read between the lines to know

that was coming from Jim Mersey. So I think even Stephen Holder, who has covered the team forever, and is now with ESPN, tweeted something like, I wonder what Frank Reich thinks about Jeff Saturday being able to pick his quarterback. So, I mean, that is somebody who's more plugged in than me and you are in Indianapolis. And that's what he was tweeting. So that, that's the big thing, is that not that Matt Ryan's great or that Matt Ryan has performed, you know, at a high level this season, but the fact that you're going with a veteran quarterback, you're obviously going to have greater chances to win a single game than you would with Ellinger, who really hadn't showed anything up to that point. So I'm with you. A lot of times you get the bump with the, you know,

the first week with the new head coach, although I didn't even think that was. what's going to happen this week. Because I think Reich was generally liked. It's not like Matt Patricia or somebody like that got fired. But it was one game against a two-win, you know, a team that is now two and seven in the NFL. So let's see how long it lasts. Listen, if they go on a run, that would be a fun story for the NFL. We can both come on here and say we were wrong at some point.

If that happens, I don't anticipate that that's going to happen. I think their issues are deep there. I think they have talent issues. I don't think it was really a coach. coaching issue there, but they're certainly going to have a better chance with Matt Ryan than with Ellinger. So we shall see. All right. My first point, Benjamin. And I know you guys talked about this on the recap show Sunday night. Did a great segment on this to begin the program, but it was a great game. I got to fire off some takes on Bill's Vikings. I can't just sit that one out.

Bill's fans should feel better about their Super Bowl chances now than they did before that loss to the Vikings. Here's the reason why. Sunday at New York, If you're a Bill's fan, you're going, is Josh Allen playing today? Is Josh Allen playing in the next month? If Josh Allen does play, is that rocket arm and that athleticism and everything we've seen from the guy over the last few years, is that going to be available to him? And guess what I mean, I don't know what your eyes told you. He looked pretty healthy to me.

I mean, he was doing a lot of the things we generally see Josh Allen do. And so just that little nugget, listen, I know it was a tough loss. And if you're a Bill's fan, you're probably like, shut up. What are you talking about? That sucked. Maybe you were at the game. Maybe you were watching with friends. What was a devastating loss.

But if we zoom out and look at the big picture, all the things that had to happen for them to lose that game, they had to give up an 81-yard touchdown run. They had to fail to convert on second and two, third, and two, fourth, and two. Justin Jefferson had to make maybe the greatest catch I've ever seen in my football viewing life. If not, it's on the short list. Justin Jefferson made nine catches with a completion probability of under 50%. I thought it was seven. It was nine?

GSI-N-GYNN. 9, according to next-gen stats, the most by any wide receiver in a game since they started tracking this kind of thing with the tracking devices. Josh Allen had to fumble a snap that the Vikings recovered for a touchdown. How about this one?

When I was re-watching it today, Ben, I thought this was an underrated moment. How about Duke Shelley? I don't even know if you remember this by, who was called up. Sixth round pick out of a touchdown. Kansas State, nickelback for the Chicago Bears. Good little player. I swear to you, when Duke Shelley made that pass breakup, I went, Duke Shelley. I didn't know Duke Shelley.

I like Duke Shelley. I'm like it's on the Vikings. I felt great about it. This is why you're sick of. Duke Shelley, who was called up from the practice squad, the day before the game breaks up the potential game-winning touchdown to Dawson Knox in the end zone. Fantastic play. And then Josh Allen through a red zone interception to end the game. All those things had to happen for you to lose that football game. But if you zoom out, the bigger concern was, is Josh Allen healthy or not? And Josh Allen looked pretty healthy.

So I know today, and I understand it, I'm guilty of it. We all do it. There's all these talks that, you know, do you pay, are the bills the same team? What's wrong with Allen? I mean, I'm looking at a team that is a top five offense, a top five defense,

leaves the AFC and point differential. They're one game out of the top seed, by the way, in the AFC, and they own the tie break over the Chiefs, Ravens and Titans. They should theoretically be getting healthier. Tredavius White, Cairo Elam, Jordan Poyer, Tremaine Edmins, all these guys were not there. Tremaine Edmonds played but then came out of the game. The other guys didn't even play in that game. And so that was probably, you know, if you look at it statistically, just on EPA per drive, that was their worst offensive performance of the season. And they scored 30 points.

I mean, Allen takes them 69 yards in 33 seconds to tie the game. They go 52 yards on six plays before the interception. So I think what's happened is they, you know, he's made some mistakes. There's no doubt about it. He's thrown interceptions here the past two, three weeks. They're losing in some high leverage situations. But if you zoom out, if you're a Bill's fan, take a deep breath. And I remember writing a piece right around this time last year. I think they were five and four or whatever it was. It was after that Monday night game against the Patriots when everyone was losing their minds. And this one's a little different. They're in a better shape this year than they were last year. So Vikings, you deserve credit. They played a good game. They made plays there, but the

bills have lost three games by a total of eight points. I mean, we're going into week 11, and their worst loss was by a field goal this year. This team is fine. This team is a Super Bowl contender. They're still my pick to win the Super Bowl. And I think if you're a Bill's fan and you're listening to this on Tuesday, maybe some of the hurt from watching that on Sunday has worn off. And you can say, all right, Allen's healthy. We have a great roster. We're well coached. we are going to be there in the end. So that was my big takeaway from that game. I agree.

I will say that I would have, take me back to the Micahide out for the season injury and then ask me like, hey, like, how good do you want to feel about the Bill's defense? I'm like, what's the timeline for like figuring out life post-micahide? I probably would have said, like, by week nine-ish, week-tenth-ish, I'd love for them to like have Tadavius whiteback,

had figured out who corner two is, be settled in the safety move. Like, let's get like middle of the season, give you like a couple months, figure it out. We haven't figured that out yet. So I would say like, the Buffalo concerns of like,

one, the defensive backfield, the musical chairs, Sean McDermott gave a quote today about Travis White coming back where he was like, hey, is it physical or mental?

And Sean was basically like, it's something. And that's not great. Yeah, that was a little weird. Yeah, I agree with that. It definitely,

it's not. we're not pressing the big red David Bakhtiari button where it's just like, hey, does this player want to be back from injury? Like, is this, what are we doing? But we're kind of getting there a little bit with your habeas weight, where it's just like,

you'd feel better if this is for a smooth transition to getting back into play. And it feels like he's like not on the injury report. Physically, they're clearing him. And it seems like he just doesn't feel like he's back yet. So that, I think Benford is a good player. They're outside corner too,

but he's still a six-round rookie. He still pick on a bowl. And then I think they're still, you know, figuring out what exactly Damar Hamlin can and can't be for them in the backfield. So there's that. And then there's the Josh Allen this red zone interceptions thing.

Which to me, like, is concerning in the sense that like, hey, if you throw a red zone interception, it's very bad. Don't do that. We can't do that against the Chiefs. Please stop doing that. There's less, I think, improvement that can be had there in terms of

Tiger doesn't change of stripes, man. One of the things I always circle back to in my like consumption of football, writing of football, analysis of football, whatever you want to call it, is that playstyle is playstyle. And whenever Josh Allen makes those, like, insane, inexplicable, what were you looking at interceptions? It just reminds me of why opening Josh Allen, right?

And it's just like, all right, like, you can get so good at this sport. You still kind of are what you are. You know, it's like you can be a varying efficacy, but playstyle nature is just not going to change. And that's the thing about Josh that, like, you know, I think this serves as a reminder of like what they did against the Jags last season, and the fact that, like, this is an extremely explosive offense at any time

they could beat anybody. There's no questions about that. I have no doubt about that. But they also, at any time, could just start shooting themselves in the foot incessantly. And that's what they've done in these last two weeks and, like, in key situations. And it's led to two losses.

And while that may feel nominal, because, like you say, the bill should feel as good about their Super Bowl chances as they did previously, they might have to play road games instead of home games if they don't handle their business because they are currently half game back by the Miami Dolphins in the AFC East, right?

And like that, if you were keeping things nice tight, that wouldn't be the reality. You would be controlling your own destiny home games through Buffalo. But you dropped this Jets game. You dropped this Vikings game. And now you got to fight in the regular season to make sure that the road through the AFC doesn't run through Miami. And that's, you know, that's why these little things start to add up and they start to matter. If there was ever any thought, whether it was in Brandon Bean's mind or Sean McDermott's mind

or Ken Dorsey's mind or the mind of Bill's fans that, you know what, Josh Allen can change the way he plays. And there's another stop. When he throws the interception and then tries to punch the football out of the defensive backs hands to the point where he's then lying on the ground face down because he was in so much pain, I'm with you. That's not going to happen. He has one way he plays. I actually look at the interceptions. And in my mind, it's not a matter of like, are they just out of his system and not going to happen?

I mean, don't get me wrong. He said many games where he doesn't throw interceptions. but to me, when he has those games where he throws one, where he throws two, it's a matter of he just can overcome it by making these spectacular plays. Even the last drive in regulation, no one will even talk about because it ends up being nothing. I mean, like I said, they went 70 yards and 33 seconds and you didn't even think about it, and they were like 10 yards away from the end zone. It's just like the end of the game against the Chiefs where like, you're like,

oh, and Yamahom's came back in 13 seconds with a superhero. And then you watch those Allen drives. And you're like, what is this guy? This is unbelievable. Yeah. So I'm with you. I mean, that would be, it's more frustrating. I mean, you're right.

That can happen in any given game. He's not someone who will always take care of the football and always take the safe plays. In my mind, you take the good with the bad and the good is just spectacular. And on another level from probably any quarterback in the NFL, not named Patrick Mahomes. And so I think they'll take some time to, you know, recover from this one. I think they'll probably win a few in a row. I think they'll probably be sitting there with nine wins and be okay and are still in good shape.

Honestly, I think they can go on the road and win in the playoffs. I don't know if they're going to need to. But in my mind, they're still on the list of like three teams, three, four teams that can win the Super Bowl. I just think in a world of diminishing home field advantage, one of the few remaining and important home field advantages is is Buffalo in the winter. Right. Now, I can hear Buffalo fans saying in the background. and I understand like, hey, when Josh starts playing in the really cold weather, his receivers hate it and they want to die because the ball is thrown so hard

it hurts their hands. So maybe it's gamesmanship, right? Maybe you don't want to be Buffalo in the winter. But just that cold weather has like, you know, you, I just keep thinking about the dolphins. And if you can just, if you could force Miami to come play you in Buffalo for the third time in January as opposed to you going back to Miami, and just that to me is such a big difference. And that's why that home field advantage to me, like, you know, oh, like between like, the Eagles and the Viking.

Well, I guess the Eagles fans are nuts. But, like, there's some home field advantage conversations where I don't think it's that meaningful with the bills, I think it is. That's probably right. All right. What do you have for your second take? Okay.

The take is this. Among the egregious errors in team management over the last 12 months, Russell Wilson to the Broncos and, like, you know, that deal, whatever. Devante Adams, trade, Derek Carr falling apart, like all of these instances. None is more frustrating or more damaging than the New Orleans Saints

deciding to try to compete in the 2022 off season. This team just lost a double-digit game. Why are you laughing at me? Because I have a Saints-adjacent take. Now I'm going to redo my order, but go ahead. Oh, all right, I didn't realize. You told me you had dolphins and you told me Bill's Vikings.

Yeah, I didn't give you my last one. I thought about it at the end, so this is great synergy. Go ahead. The Philadelphia Eagles currently own the New Orleans Saints in the first round pick in the 2023 NFL draft, which is the fourth overall pick.

And again, like, as I said, egregious errors in team building. The Seahawks own the Denver's, Denver's first round pick. That pick right now is seventh. The Lions own the Rams. That's eighth. I don't really think the Rams have buyer, you know, sadness there, whatever. Cleveland, their first round pick

belongs to Houston at nine. Deshawn Watson trade, kind of a whole separate situation. But those three trades are Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, and Deshawn Watson. three players considered by the acquiring teams to be franchise quarterbacks. We can win a championship of this quarterback. What did the Saints get from the Eagles in that trade? And lest we forget, the Saints sent the 18th overall pick in the 2022 draft,

their first rounder, a couple late rounders in the 22 draft, and a 2023 first and 2024 second to get from the Eagles two first round picks in the 22 draft that they subsequently turned into Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. These two names are critically important because through the first 10 weeks of the season, I think Chris Olave has been the most impressive rookie receiver.

I think we've seen from Drake London and Garrett Wilson and Train theverse. I think Chris Olavis been the best. George Pickens, Chris Olavet, man, give me a lave against the field. The downfield ability, the breaking off the routes, the toughness he's been taking, these gnarly hits and he's found a way to get back on the field.

He's not afraid of contact at a side. he is hit. And Trevor Penning is not. Penning has been unavailable, right? Penning's been injured. Penning was also getting kicked out of training camp mutual practices because he was fighting guys. The film did not look good when he was playing in the preseason, right?

I think a lot of people were very surprised to see Penning go that high. Like certainly by the time we got to the draft day, there was smoke on it. But like this was a reach on a pick of a developmental tackle to account for losing to run armstead. So you have one pick that so far is going great and you have one pick that so far is going poorly. And I think there's a way you, in seeing that, you go, drafts a crapshoot, you know, 50-50. You know, we got one of the first round picks, right, got one of them wrong. Shucks. No, you got both them wrong. Like, Chris

Lavae's great. Don't get me wrong. You traded a future first and a future second to get 16 overall, which you then packaged with a third and a fourth round pick to move up to 11 to go get Chris Lave. Your quarterbacks at the time were James Winston and Andy Dalton. what were you looking at? You lost Tehran Armstead. You lost Trey Hendricksson. You lost Marcus Williams. You traded away.

Chauncey Garner Johnson. Malcolm Jenkins retired. You had a massive talent drain over the course of multiple seasons while your Hall of Fame quarterback retired and then a year later your Hall of Fame head coach retired. You had less cap space

than any team in the league, 2022 free agency. Oh, you had to do. All you had to do, Mickey Loomis, was sit on your hands for one offseason. Just for three months, take a yacht out to some island I've never heard of, throw your phone into the ocean, and just don't do anything. Just sip on drinks and read a book and have a great time. And you would have walked into the 2023 off season with a top five pick

and a draft with a ton of very good quarterbacks with more Cappsys. But no, you had to go get Taron Matthew, LSU Hero, didn't you? You had to go get Marcus. may reload the safety position. And here you are at 3 and 7. And I know that the Saints have been banged up. I hear you. I know that you have not, right, no Trevor Panning,

no Andrews Pete, Marshawn Latimore's been hurt. Paulson Adibo has been hurt. Michael Thomas been hurt. Jarvis Landry. Oh, another free agent signing. He's been hurt. Mark Ingraham, back for some reason. He's been hurt. I understand it's been a ton of injury. And the Saints could have been better than this. But

the Piper came, man. It was, you have been Robin Peter. and at some point you got to pay Paul and you had a great opportunity to do it. You had an awesome chance. All you had to do was not trade future picks to get more picks in the 2022 draft to think Trevor pending could replace Toronto Armstead and then just wait, get a top five pick, get a good rookie quarterback in the building. You could have still gotten like make the small trade up for a lobby, right?

You had 18 overall move up for a lobby. Go get James and Williams. Let him, you know, take a year off. Freaking get George Pickens, right? All you do is get George. Then you walk into next season with Bryce Young, throwing to George Pickens, with Alvin Kamara in the backfield,

and with a still solid offensive line in front of him without Trevor Penning on it, still with Ryan Ramcheck, still with Cesar Ruiz. You would have been fine. You would have so quickly reloaded on offense, but you couldn't be patient. And here you are, man.

And the Eagles of a top five pick, they're going to win the freaking Super Bowl, and it's ridiculous. It was such a massive mis-evaluation of their own roster, and what life was going to be, what life was going to be like without Sean Payton. And this isn't, you know, sometimes we'll come on here and there'll be certainly some hindsight. I mean, I would rip the Broncos now, but then I would tell you, I thought that was a fine move to make at the time, take a swing and see what happens. This wasn't one of those.

I mean, I just thought, what are you doing? Sean Payton, like you mentioned, one of the best coaches we've had in the league over the last 30 years. He's gone. Look at your roster. You have no answers at quarterback. They tried to get to Sean Watson. don't forget. Then they don't get to Sean Watson and they paid James Winston 14 million a year. This is the third year in a row. James Winston was a free agent. Nobody in the previous two times

was paying him over, I think, five or five or seven million a one year deal last year. And then you're going to pay him $14 million a year. What is going on here? And you said it. I mean, yeah, they could really be sitting pretty. If they just didn't give up next year's first round pick, And if they did everything else other than that, just didn't give up next year's first round pick. Now you're talking about one year of pain. And then 2023, you come back. The fan base is excited. You've got a young quarterback.

You've still got some veterans on the roster. Maybe you compete right away. Maybe you don't. But you have a plan for the future. But they didn't do that. So I was trying to think if I think it's as egregious, like now that we have the hindsight, I sort of feel like the Broncos might be in a worse spot just because not only did they make the trade, but now they're paying.

weighing Russ $59 million a year. But at the time, this was the most easily identifiable mistake of the offseason. Right. Like, as somebody who in the course of the Russ trade saga was like,

I don't know if I would want to be in this boat. You know what I'm saying? Like, that alone, I was like, all right, well, if this works, it works. Like, if, if, if, like, I didn't think there's upside at least. Yeah, I didn't think Ross was going to walk in and make them like an immediate contender.

But if Russ came and just, like, brought the moonball, then yeah, like, they were like, all right, if this works, it's going to work. Like, they're going to compete with the chiefs. If the Saints plan worked, they'd have a better left tackle right now. Nine wins, maybe. If everything went their way, yeah, if everything went their way, you're talking about nine wins, and there was never going to be any upside

with the roster with this quarterback situation as constructed. Part of me admires the idea of like, screw it, let's build the best team for this year and compete. No, there's something fun about that. There's laws of man in nature. And one of them is eventually at some point you have to wait. You just have to relax. And I think that that's the important,

like the actual salient point, not like the joking point goes in an island, which is that general managers and team builders are correctly getting longer leashes. That is a generally good thing. In that lengthening of the leash, in that changing paradigm of like, let's let guys trade more future picks.

That's attack winning windows. What now needs to be done is a recalibration to where the limit of the cliff is, right? Like, you know, less needs out here trying to trade two future first and a future second for Brian Burns for a team that's like got a lot more problems than not having Brian Burns. Like, there's that recalibration that's going to happen now

and I think the saints are a good cautionary tale of like, all right, if you can't definitively point to just your quarterback position and say if we're average everywhere, he can still make us a playoff team, then you're not allowed to go bananas. You can't, no trading future picks. We need to get that right and then we can move forward. I agree with you there.

I'm going to reorder mine and get to this is going to be three for me, but I'm going to make it number two because it's a great segue to what you just talked about. The Sean Payton rumors are going to pick up in the next two or three weeks and just dominate the new cycle for like a 48 hour span. I had the saints on my mind like you did. I mean, 10 first downs, 186 yards in the loss to the Steelers. They're three and seven. Their season is over. And I started to think kind of like you just laid out. I said to myself, they don't have their first round.

is any team in a worse spot than the New Orleans Saints. They have a coach who, in my opinion, is a huge question. They have nothing at quarterback. They have no first round pick. They've got some talented players on the roster, but they're really in no mansland. And then I remembered, hold on. They got at least a little ace in the hole that could get them some draft capital.

And his name is Sean Payton and a Sean Payton trade. Listen, we've already had two head coach firings in the NFL with Matt Rule and Frank Right. More will be coming. Just looking at the playoff odds, there are probably 10, 12, 14 teams whose playoff chances are like under 15%. I mean, you're talking minor miracle possibilities for them to even get in the postseason, a postseason where 14 of the 32 teams make it. Owners are going to start thinking about the offseason right now if they haven't done so already. We know Peyton doesn't mind having his name floated out there. from time to time to say the least.

And so I was looking at the teams, Benjamin, and I'm curious what you think about this. So Jay Glazer reported that Sean Payton is not going to the Carolina Panthers. I think he said that the Panthers asked him to ask Sean Peyton, asked him to ask Sean Peyton. And he said definitively that that is not happening. The Indianapolis Colts will see.

They seem like they want to give Jeff Saturday every chance to win the job. They'll have to do a process at the end of the season, whether it's a real process or a fake process, we'll say. But here are the other teams I was thinking of that could be in the market for a coach at the end of the season. Maybe they gauge Sean Payton's interest. The Houston Texans, the Denver Broncos, the Dallas Cowboys, the Washington commanders, and the Arizona Cardinals. So I did this exercise. I wrote down two, and then I wrote down one.

the team that I think maybe is the most likely destination for Sean Payton in a trade that will likely require, I think, a first round pick, at least one first round pick, and we'll see what else this offseason. What do you think when I listed those? Oh, did I miss a team? Maybe I missed a team. Cowboys got to be the crown, right? I did not have the Cowboys. The Cowboys have been the obvious one, the talking point at the same time. If the Cowboys are not having a disastrous season, And if anything, they're having a pretty good season despite their loss. And so they're at least going to be in the playoffs unless they fall apart. They easily could win a playoff game.

So yes, that's a possible destination, but that's not the one I wrote down. Yeah, I just, if I'm ownership in Dallas, God forbid, I'm Jerry Jones. But if I'm Jerry Jones and we take this team of the playoffs and lose in the first round, which how long has it been since the Cowboys like won the divisional round playoff game? A bazillion years, right? If they get knocked out wildcard rally and make it, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm calling Sean. And I'm like, I'm trying to keep everybody in the building, keep Dan in the building, keep

telling the building, get rid of Mike, put Sean in here, and let's go win a championship, right? So to me that that one's got a ton of legs. I'll remind everyone that Jerry Jones is very loyal to coaches who, like we said, coaches want someone they can go to lunch with. He's stuck with Jason Garrett for a long, long time. And so, you know, the two questions there would be, would he be willing to make a move? One, and two, is that a destination that Sean Payton would find attractive, kind of knowing the power structure

and the owner's influence. But yes, they absolutely need to be mentioned. They're not the team that I had as my final choice. But if you had to choose a second one, who would you have? Commanders are weird. Like, commanders make sense on paper, but also they're going through a sale. Then, like, are you going to trade multiple picks for Sean Payton as ownership

while you're also potentially selling the team? Like, you're like, yes, right? Like, add value to the team? All right, I talk to myself into commanders there. Broncos also, the main thing about, Nate Hackett, which I haven't talked about Nate Hackett in a while because after week two, I gently suggested that

Nate Hackett should be one and done. And then since then, I've just received no evidence. I saw a stat today that if in regulation, the Broncos offense scored 18 points every single game. In regulation, the Broncos would be 8 and 1 right now. 18 points per game. Amazing. In four quarters, Broncos would be 8 and 1.

They're like 3 and 6, regardless. Their defense is second in EPA per drive in the NFL. If you would have told me before the season, the Broncos are going to have a top three defense this year. What's the Broncos final record? It would not be what it's going to be. 13 and 4. I almost, my extra point was almost,

it was very nearly, this should be, this upcoming head coaching cycle should be defined by defensive coaches. Ejero Averro should get a job. Damiko Ryan should get a job. Shane Bowen from the Titans should get a job. And I won't even mind if Dan Quinn from the Cowboys gets a job.

Like, there are some of these defensive staff. that are just pitching with gas. And then there's other defense guys we know who like Jonathan Gannon with the Eagles, where he Morris with the Rams, probably are going to be back in the cycle, even if they're doing like, you know, varying degrees of worthiness there in terms of being in the cycle.

It's going to be a defense coach cycle. But regardless, as an aside, Broncos, I think, make a lot of sense just because that ownership group did not hire hack it. And I think it's an understandable first big swing, big splash, bring in a Sean Payton and see if you can fix Russ. Because Russ ain't going anywhere, right? You can't get rid of Russ.

like let's bring in Peyton, who worked really well with the short quarterback that Russell Wilson has long idolized and Drew Brees. Let's see if that makes sense. So I like the Broncos one as well. All right. So you didn't name the one that I had as my finalist. So my finalists were the Broncos and the Arizona Cardinals. Cardinals. The Broncos would make all the sense in the world. However, Broncos don't have their first and second round picks for 2023. The Seahawks out there first and second round picks. So now either you're dipping. into other draft capital in 2023, you're taking it out of 2024, you're trading players,

I don't know what the Saints are going to want, but yet they're going to be the Broncos are going to be a very desperate team this offseason, given what they invested in Russ and the way this season has gone. I guess they still couldn't make a big swing. But I'm looking at the Cardinals,

and I don't know, if you're Sean Payton and you're looking at what your options are and you see Kyler Murray and you don't love everything about him, but you say, man, the talent is absolutely there where if I fancy myself to be a quarterback whisper and offensive guru, which he's pretty much proven for his career, I get a chance to go coach Kyler Murray. It's not exactly going to be a high pressure work environment there in Arizona. Maybe they're moving on. I know Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kime got extensions in the

offseason, but I can't imagine they're just going to run this all back in 2020. And so we'll see. But those were the teams I had outlined. And as I was whittling them down, I thought, you know what? Sean Payton, Arizona, I think there was some strange report that he wanted to be somewhere that had good golf or something. Waste management, baby, every year. I don't know if he views it as half retirement, half coaching when he gets back into it. But it seems like that could be a nice second final stop for Sean Payton in his career with the Arizona Cardinals.

So maybe if you're a Saints fan and you're saying, this sucks, Solek just ripped me, shield just ripped me, I have nothing. Root against the Cardinals. Maybe that Cardinals pick might become your pick in the season. What do you have for number three? All right, number three. If Cooper Cup can't play, the Rams are the worst team in the league and should sit Matt Stafford for the rest of the season.

I don't even think this is a hot take. Let's do my favorite game, which is name Ram starters. Cooper Cup, starting wide receiver. Who's their second best to target getter, snap, getter receiver right now? Alan Robinson, behind him. Ben Scaronic, who started the season moonlighting as a fullback. Van Jefferson, started the season injured. I would say that Scoronic and Jefferson are clearly below average starters.

I would also say that Alan Robinson at this age in his career is below average starter. I know they didn't pay him to be that. I know the fantasy community didn't want him to be that. That's what the film has been for last few years. years. Running back. They haven't had a running back with more than 62 yards in a game so far this season. Darrell Henderson is currently like the starter in the sense that he just got the most handoffs. Next week it'll be Kyron Williams. Then it'll be Ronnie Rivers. Then it'll be back to Kamakers again.

Any of those players get you up. Get your blood moving. Get your juices pumping. Tight end. Tyler Higby. How are we feeling about Tyler Higby? Where were we ranking Tyler Higby on the tight ends? Fourteenth? Average. I was just a 12th. Just a lot. off the top of my next. Now let's do the offensive line. They've had nine different starting iterations in nine weeks.

Alaric Jackson, everybody pumped. Gonna get some Coleman Shelton this week. There are two above average players on the entire offensive depth chart for the Los Angeles Rams. Again, Mickey Loomis, what's the line? This is the cost to do in business. If you want to build a team like this,

eventually you can pay a Piper. They are two above average starters on the Rams offense right now. They're named our Cooper Cup and Matthew Staff. One of them walked into the season with an elbow injury that like we've kind of forgotten about over the last month, but was described during the offseason as like, yeah, it'll just be him managing the pain for the whole season, which, okay, he's a mid-30s quarterback. Most mid-30s players are going to be pain management, but also he traded the franchise for him. And he won you a Super Bowl. You want to protect this guy for as long as possible.

That's the one dude. The other dude has now apparently got a high ankle injury that could be multiple weeks. If Cup can't go, Matthew Stafford is the only plus player on a Rams offense that cannot protect him. And he can't get out of the pocket. The amount of hits that he's taking already, he takes the top 10 number of hits in the league, a quarterback, is unacceptable. The Rams offense by EPA per play is the worst offense in the league. Negative 0.117. 32nd. Worse than the Colts.

Worse than the Broncos. Worse than the Texans. And Cup is one of the five best receivers in the league. If he can't go, there's nothing for the offense. They have nothing. So why play Stafford? If I were running the Rams, if I were ownership, now I'm no longer Jerry Johnson.

I'm wearing my stand-cranky mask. My whole goal. Nice mustache. Thank you. It worked on it very hard. My whole goal is to keep Sean McVeigh and Aaron Donald as mentally interested in the sport of football for as long as possible.

Because both of those guys have pretty openly flirted it with the idea of like, hey, I've been to the summit, I liked it, I'm ready for the next thing in my life. Sean, I dare you to win a game with Bryce Perkins. I don't know.

Like, do something. But if you get a significant Matthew Stafford injury during a meaningless back half of the 2022 season, why would Sean McVeigh continue coaching Los Angeles Rams. He very clearly is ready to just, like, move on to something. He'll pull Sean Payne, go and, like, do some media.

And then if he wants back in, he'll get back in whenever he gets back in. Like, that is his perspective. Donald had to get talked back into staying with the team. If his future looks like Derek Carr and Trevor Simeon for the next three seasons, while we wait for the Rams to get enough draft capital to trade up for a quarterback, I don't think Donald's going to keep playing. And all of a sudden now, like, just your beautiful Englewood Stadium and your gorgeous LA NFL defining team is just a nothing burger for the next four years. That's a scary thing.

So if Cup is shelved, long term, you can't openly punt on a season if you get in trouble, but I would very softly, very gently punt on the rest of the season, just get out of here and then get ready for next year and try to make sure they're ready to contend at that time. So the purpose of this would just be to avoid a catastrophic injury to Matthew Stafford that leaks into 2023. Right. I would say that Stafford re-aggregated his elbow injury and we're giving him surgery and we're bringing

him into the off-season. I'll frame me to this way. If I stepped into a time machine and went back four months ago to Stan Cronky when they knew about the elbow injury in the off-season and they were zero and zero and I said, hey, in the middle of November, you're going to be four and six. Do you want to put Stafford having the injury right now?

He'd go, yeah. If he knew that they were not going to contend this year, they would have, I think if Stafford needed surgery, I think they would have to give it to him in August. So now, at this point in November, make the call. Yeah, three and six, not even, not even. Three and six, excuse me. Four and six. And they're cooked.

I mean, you mentioned it. It's been, I've sort of been hanging on and hanging on because I have so much faith in McVeigh that I thought the floor of the offense would be pretty high unless just everybody got injured. I thought he would be able to figure it out. I mean, they've had a buy week. They've tried different things. Nothing has worked. They're just not talented enough now. Most teams, you would say, yeah, do that, and then you'll get a higher draft pick.

They don't have their first round pick in this year's drafts. So the Lions, you know, right now would have the eighth overall pick for the RIVs. Now, the Rams did it. Listen, the Rams got a championship out of it. It's always basically going to be worth it if you get the one Lombardi trophy. But, I mean, when you were describing that, honestly, about keeping McVeigh interested, are we sure there's a path to keeping him interested and a path to this team being really good? an actual contender in

2023, they don't have their first round pick. Stafford's going to be a year older. You mentioned it. I guess you can add one other weapon alongside Cooper Cup and hope for better health on the offensive line. I mean, you still have Ramsey and Donald

in their primes or near their primes on defense. So you would hope you figure out something there. But man, it's, you know, when a quarterback gets that age and like you said, he's been hit so much and he's been dealt with different injuries in his career, you just sort of wonder that like, yeah, I'm with you. I think there's a, if we want to talk about like bold

predictions for the off season, just waking up one day to a alert that Sean McVeigh has informed the Rams that he's retiring or take, you know, whatever the term would be, taking time off from coaching for the next, whatever. I mean, you mentioned he flirted with it last year, whether that was a negotiation ploy or not. I don't know, but it gets a lot harder when you've been such a great team and you've won a Super Bowl. to then motivate yourself to come back and put in the hours when you look at your roster and say, we're probably still not going to have it, and we don't really have a means to get it for next year. Yeah. To me, it's what I'd like to get to is I'd like to get to the NFL's universal optimism miser,

the offseason. If I can get Sean to free agency, and I can say, like, I don't know to what degree he was involved in, like, the Allen Robinson signing, for example. And like obviously like last year like during the trade deadline they just like went bananas right. Like get Vaughn and then because you get Vaughn and get Odell and like you know, whatever, yada, yada, yeah, yeah. But this year like just Alan Robinson, that's the only new tool he gets on the offense and it doesn't work.

I don't know to what degree like that was a him call versus Sneed call, whatever. But if I'm cranky, I go to Sean, I go like, hey, like whoever you want this off season. Like let's build this thing. Let's build the same with the players you want. Like, you know, he probably was, I think McVey was a big part of the two-two Atwell pick, which is a total nightmare. Let him make another two-toeatwell pick. It's worth it.

What a recommendation. And this is going to lead to success, making another two-two. Because you get, I know what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it's, because the thing is, is also it's a house of cards. I think Stafford, Donald, and McVeigh could all retire tomorrow and be happy with their careers.

Right now, all of them play for, play for, are engaged with our employed by the Los Angeles Rams. The moment one goes, why is staff are going to take another shot to the back if he's being coached by what, who they got there now? Liam Cohen?

Sean Payton? Not for it. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just not, why bother? You know what I'm saying? Like, if there's no Donald, like the Rams are,

like I said, they're 32nd EPA per play on offense. They're 19th in defense. There's one reason why his name is Aaron. Like even Ramses not playing that well this year. Donald goes, Sean's going to wait and see if Greg gains can be an impact three tech. It's just not like it's a house of cards. And so just I think you got

find a way to make sure you have reason for optimism in the off season, which like healthy Stafford plus hey, Sean, go sign Kendrick Bourne. It won't be great having Kendrick Bourne. Like, whatever you need to do, they're just going to mentally keep him there. I think you do. Okay. I like that one. All right. My last one, we got good synergy here because my last one, Ben, is Mike McDaniel is the new Sean McVeigh is my final take. Oh! Oh! Yes!

I love that take! I was debating as the new Kyle Shanahan or is the new Sean McVe? And then I thought McVeigh's on his way out. He's had a great run, has won 64% of his games, made the Super Bowl twice, won at once. The Rams stink this year. He's fading into the background. Like our last segment is probably the only time anyone will talk about Sean McVe.

for the next two months unless he retires. Maybe he resets and they're good again next year. But my gosh, what Mike McDaniel is doing with this Dolphins offense. And you were trying to convince me of it a couple weeks ago. And I was a little hesitant. And I'll still wait before putting them in the Chiefs and Bills category in terms of Super Bowl contenders. But that game they played against the Browns, and it's not like a one game thing. I mean, they're doing this every week. I think I said it last week. If you watch Red Zone on Sunday, anytime they go to a Dolphins game, the Dolphins are either scoring or in the red zone. I swear, they do not have empty drives. They go 29 first downs, 491 yards versus the Browns. There's been 299 offensive performances this year. That one ranked

fourth in EPA per drive. Ben, the dolphins have the fourth, sixth, and seventh best performances in the entire NFL in terms of EPA per drive this year, single game performances. That's more than the Chiefs. There's only one. The Chiefs are the only team that it's more than one. They have three of the top seven right there.

If you look at Tua Tungaviloas, EPA per Pass play, and if you look at every quarterback through 10 weeks over the last 10 years, here's his company. Drew Breeze in 2018,

Patrick Mahomes in 2018, Aaron Rogers in 2014, Peyton Manning in 2013, and Tua in 20, Those are the top five passing performances through 10 weeks in the NFL over the last 10 years. I mean, this offense right now, there's second an EPA per drive. If you just isolate the snaps where TWA has played, they have the best offense in the entire NFL.

And so I'm, listen, I'm giving Tua credit. I'll be honest. I was not the biggest Tua guy. And I'm not saying anyone could just be plugged into this offense and be great. I do think it's a combination of the way he's playing and also the supporting cast and the coaching. And Mike McDaniels had come into that environment, which has been a dysfunctional organization. You trade for Tyreek Hill. I made the joke probably 30 times in the preseason that Tyreek Hill was going to be slamming a tablet on the sideline by week six because he was so frustrated.

That hasn't happened. Tyreek Hill has somehow been better in Miami than he was with Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid. Jalen Waddle, outstanding the command that Tua has the process. He knows the answers. When you watch these games, he's not back there thinking or having to make a lot of plays outside of structure. He's confident. He knows what coverage he's seeing. He knows where he's supposed to go with the football. He's ripping some of these throws. His accuracy has been outstanding. And so I'm not going to go full board and just like, you know, crown them and say they're going to get to the Super Bowl just yet or that they're in the same class as the Bills and the Chiefs. But this offense is passing the test week after. week after week with Tua. And I'm really excited to watch them the rest of the way because they get the buy and then they get the Texans. And then in the last six weeks, 49ers, Bills, Patriots and Jets they have to play in the last six weeks.

Those games are going to be must see TV, this offense that really, I mean, it passes any test, the metrics, the eye test, the film, any person you talk about, say, hey, give me a breakdown of the dolphins. Everybody has to be on board. There's nothing going on there right now. that seems fluky. So I think McDaniel's going to be the new sort of boy wonder

in the NFL. If this continues, McVeigh, who knows where he'll be, Shanahan, who knows, but McDaniel, to do what he's doing

this year has been very, very impressive. Dolphins Chargers is going to end football discourse, man. That game just with Tua,

Herbert, the Chargers defense, the state that's in right now, brother, it's gonna, we're not going to make it. Apocalypse now, man. We're done.

as you may have been able to tell by my initial reaction, I love this take. This is the best take we've ever had on this on this show, mostly because next Sean McVeigh died. I forgot that it died. After McVeigh, the year after he was hired and was great, went to the Super Bowl,

every single person that lived and breathed air and called Wide Zone twice in one game was the next Sean McVey. Just incessant, right? It was so irritating. And there was, what there was was there is a lack of understanding, that what McVeigh did really well, run the system,

wide zone, boot, rollout, action, you know, we understand the defense, whatever. He was just an extremely good series play caller. It's so hard to make

everything look like everything in terms of how you coach it. He's a good series coach, how to coach it, how to look like it, what the techniques are, and then play calling it, how to set up,

how to get that one defender to believe it's that one thing to get that one advantage to create an explosive play out of nothing. And, like, even Shane has never been as good

as McVey is, right? I think, like, it's it appropriate to call McGainell the next McVay and then not Shanahan, because Shanahan, who's a good serious play caller, has not been as good as McVey as in terms of that everything looks the same, everything builds off of one concept. There's this complexity. The second you said it, the light bulb went off in my head where I was like,

man, nobody since OG Sean since, like, 2017 Sean, has been able to make everything look the same on offense until it's not like McDaniel does. And it's just, just they run just like, Seth, clean up, PFF is a great. breakdown on his timeline from a couple of weeks ago. They run this like post wheel option. They run it like nine times a game. And it's just,

it's a give, it's a jet, it's a touch, it's a pass, it's an RPO. It's just their ability to give you one package and then built so much stuff off of it. It's just, it's such a nightmare to deal with. Even before two of the players running on the field are running with four three speed and the quarterback is just shooting in two seconds down the field on every single play. Even before you start to incorporate the talent at wide receiver and at quarterback, it's so hard to handle. And that, the, the, the, the, the,

doling out of credit in Miami is a tough thing. It really, really is. But man, like, there were a lot of offensive minds in Miami trying to figure out how to get an offense to work around Tua last year. And some of that was too was detriment. So there were too many cooks in the kitchen, but there was a lot of effort and it didn't work.

And there were other issues with that. Like the line was bad. Line was terrible last year. Yes. Four, three of the five starters are back. And you don't hear, back about Liam Mikeenberg anymore, do you?

Exactly. Anybody you talking about Austin Jackson recently? No, the coach solved a lot of problems to this team. Tua problems

and other problems. And that to me is a huge feather in Michael Daniel's cap. So absolutely. I am enamored with that take. I'm going to be saying

that as if it's my own for the rest of the season. There you go. All right, hit us with the extra point taken to finish us off. This branches a little bit off of Tua.

So we're just great of podcasting now. We've got to keep this rolling forever. So till what? Week? What are we? Week 10?

Week 11? Yeah, it took some time. All right. The take requires a small preamble. It is week 10, which means we are officially in the stage of the NFL season in which there are 19 players in the MVP race. Three weeks ago, Gino Smith had an MVP case. You lost to the bucks, that's done. Two weeks ago, two is it MVP?

Two has got to be the MVP. That one's still living, right? You look at like yards per play numbers, EPA numbers. Two a season matches up with MVP seasons of years past. This week, Justin Fields, right? Orlovsky's on ESPN, just like, yeah, Justin Fields, she could play as winning an MVP race. Bears are three and seven, but whatever. We all, like, Jalen Hertz is an MVP, Patrick Mahomes is an MVP,

Josh Allen's an MVP, Lamar Jackson's an MVP. We have two options. This is the take. The first option is to shed from sports writer's shoulders the yoke of superlatives, to decide that there is a way to talk about players as good without deciding that They are the most valuable player, the single most important player to their team in the league. Our first option is to find some gradient between average and elite and exemplary to find shades of gray. Our second option, we need more awards.

My official take is we need more off-season awards. We need an MVP. We need offensive player of the year. We need most improved quarterback of the year. We need best season from a quarterback in his first three seasons of the year. We need most surprising ex-backup quarterback starting well of the year award. And we need, should have won MVP, but we didn't have enough awards award. We either have to get better at talking about quarterbacks,

which seems extremely difficult in the current climate of discussing football players, or we need 19 quarterback specific end of the year awards. Only one of these two options will save us. Otherwise, we're going to have to do MVP discourse about, like, I don't know, Kirk cousins. It's coming. There ain't one. Kirk played well against the bills.

It's coming. There's a Kirk MVP takeout there somewhere, Sheel. And we're just going to keep doing this forever until eventually we reach critical mass, and we have to create second most MVP, third most MVP, fourth most MVP. We got more. This is my solution. I'm getting anxiety.

I'm getting chest tightness. I do not know. There will not be more awards. I do not need more awards. I mean, I sometimes make fun of our NBA podcasting brethren when they pick like the first, second and all,

third all NBA teams. And I love these podcasts. I listen to them. But it feels like it pains them so much to make they lose sleep and they feel there. No, we don't need more awards. That is not the answer. You're too young to have such a curmudgeonly take.

Like, see, I'm sitting back and going, who cares? You have a little MVP debate on Justin Fields on a Tuesday in November? It drives me insane. It's sports conversation. What's the big deal? You have a take and then you make the casey. This is how sports writing used to be. Like, I did this story on this old show in Philadelphia called The Great Sports Debate,

and they would literally have a panel of four sports writers. They would debate sports stuff, and I was watching old tapes, and they once pretended that Michael Jordan was a pumpkin, and they took a bat, and they smashed the pumpkin and they said, this guy will never win. I literally watch this. This guy will never win anything. He's a me first player. Listen, sometimes you just let it rip.

You know, we get into the film and the analytics and everything, some nuance. Sometimes you have a take. You just let it rip. It's okay. No one gets hurt. So no more awards. No one is forcing you to talk about the MVP.

If people want to let some MVP takes fly in week 10 and you think they're outrageous, that's okay. That's part of the fun. So I'm vetoing your. your extra point taken. It's just because, like, I wrote, I did a Fields, uh, video. I did a Fields play sheet. And like, most of the responses were like, yeah, like Fields is a lot better.

This is the bomb. And then there was a decent fraction of responses that was like, hey, Fields is the worst player ever and you're a moron. And then he set new rushing records against the lines this week. And I tweeted, I was like, this feels, this is a sensation. Like this is like, this is like, I, I don't remember watching a quarterback play like this but just the speed, the explosiveness, it's allowing him to be more decisive.

It's so cool. And then people were like, why do you think Justin Fields is the MVP? And I was like, I can't, I just want to enjoy the player. It's so difficult to enjoy the player when you can't be like,

he's good without some people being like, actually you hate me by saying this, and some other people being like, oh, so you think he's better than Patrick Mahomes? Guys, I just want there to be a world where good is good, not on an MVP track or actually bad.

I just let good be good. That's my campaign slogan when I run for president of how we talk about football players in 2023. Benjamin Solac, let Good be good. Solac Capadia, like it be good.

Mike McDaniel's New Sean McPay. I have your solution. Don't be so online. There you go. It's not more awards. I wish. Just don't be so online. You let it rip,

you write your piece, you go for a walk, you come back, you give out your email address. I mean, And if someone seriously wants to have a B for a conversation, they can email you. There you go. You know why I give out my email address? Beasolac at Spotify.com. It's because the people who take the time to email are the nice people.

There you go. The emails are great. I love the emails. There you go. That's all you have to worry about. All right. That'll do it. That was good. It went down some different paths on this episode. Now, thanks to everybody for listening. Tuesday on this feed, you will get Austin Gale and the power rankers on Wednesday, Nora Princiatti on the island. I'm back Thursday on The Scramble,

and you get Solek on Friday for the preview show. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal. I'm Shil Kapadia. He's Ben Solak, and we will talk to you next Monday night.