The Ringer NFL Show - The Double Doink Game | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 378)

Episode Date: January 7, 2019

Reactions from wild-card weekend, including the Bears' tragic loss to the Eagles and the Chargers' impressive defensive showing against Baltimore (0:30), the Seahawks' refusal to abandon the run, and the Colts' exciting future (32:30). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If I were playing fantasy football and was able to draft Skittles, I would. Technically, they would score me zero points every week because Skittles is a candy and not a football player. And even if it were a football player, it would just lay there on the field. So that doesn't work out so great. Maybe it could get a tackle because someone would trip over them, but that doesn't get you any fantasy points. It doesn't matter. Skittles are fruity and delicious, though. Also, fantasy football is over, so I don't know why I'm saying any of this.

Skittles. Podcast the rainbow, taste the rainbow. To the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. How you doing, buddy? Better than you. Let's talk about it. I don't know what to say. I mean, I'm heartbroken. It was a devastating outcome.

And that game was really hard to kind of process. And if you're going to lose, that's the worst way to lose. And he made the first one. And there are a million things I could say about that game, but the Bears did not deserve to win. I mean, just the amount of times where a Trubisky threw into triple coverage and it fell incomplete, it was a disgusting game. The defense carried them as its want to do.

And it's more so about what happens next. And that's why I'm as sad as I am about the Bears. just when you say what happens next do you mean what happens next in the in the bear's franchise or just the fact that the regional round is going to happen without the bears no it's what happens next in the bears franchise because it's one of those things where we've talked about this there's no guarantee there there is no guarantee that this team that has built itself up over the next three years as a plan when it comes to the roster you know the idea that for the most part everyone will be back Amos is a free agent, stuff like that. But it's more about bit players need to be retained. For the most part, this team is on a three-year run with this structure. And, you know, one of the things about the MAC deal, which is obviously a massive deal, is it gets better every single year as the cap rises.

I mean, by 2021, it's going to be around 10 or 12% of the cap. I mean, that's cap management 101 right there. So the Mac deal is not going to age really as badly as some of the other mega deals around the league. Yeah, it's the Mac deal. So 2021 is you bring that up. But that's what the Trubisky fifth year option would be. So that's more or less the trajectory of this franchise is dependent on what he is. And he was not good today.

I mean, he made some really nice throws. But there were a handful that could have cost them the game every single time. it was a frustrating, maddening game. I wish they would have won. I wish that kick would have gone through. But it's not as if they outplayed the Eagles left and right here. And they deserve to win. I don't feel that way.

I feel like it was one of those games where you just as soon, like you just pray as a fan that you win and you get to play the next week. And that's not what happened. They got outplayed in a lot of ways. and they lost because the ball did not bounce their way. I'm heartbroken. It was such a fun season. It was such a fun season.

That defense. And today was another example of it. The defense came through in so many ways. And turnovers and everything. It's just, I don't know. I'm still having trouble trying to process it. It's a rough thing. You let yourself get really,

You let yourself fall in love with certain iterations of your team. And that's how it was with this team this year. And it's over. And I don't, I'm not, like, I'm really not going to chalk it up to Nick Foles magic. And like this idea that the Eagles are this mystical thing. The bear's fucked up. And that's all we have. Can I have a counterpoint?

You can. Nick Foles magic, baby. yeah now I'm all set with that Nick Foles magic yeah I'm all I'm all set with that Nick Bowles Wow

if Cody Parky makes a 43 fucking yard field goal this this conversation is over well the other side of this is you know what the problem is there is he was playing Nick Foles yeah I guess so you know the other part of this is yeah if if Prince and Mukamora doesn't get called for

40 yard pass interference penalty on a play that was not fucking pass interference I never bitch about the refs. The refs thing drives me crazy. It's, that is the worst excuse you can ever have. That is not pass interference. And it is the biggest play the Eagles offense had the entire game. Was that one play that got them inside the 10 yard line where Jordan Matthews,

inexplicably beats a guy who's better than him at football down the right side, down the left side line? And guess what? He didn't beat him. It just, where two or three bounces of the ball calls, whatever, away from the Eagles not being in this anymore. The Eagles are fine. They have a lot of good players.

Fletcher Cox was amazing today. I felt like their coaching staff did a really nice job. You can keep all of your big Nick energy. Okay. Well, so Nick Full is going to play the divisional round. Now, I saw a stat tonight. I think it was from Chase Stewart. blew my mind.

If the Eagles win next weekend, they will have set the record. They already tied the record. They will set the record for most consecutive wins as an underdog in the playoffs. actually the Ravens, the Joe Flacko Ravens did it as well. And then I think some hostile or Giants teams, those teams. But it's, it sort of speaks to how ridiculous this run has been. Obviously, obviously they got some lucky breaks tonight. The Golden Tate trade is back.

We were out on the Golden Tate trade for half a season. It is now back as a value trade. Congratulations to the Golden Tate trade for being good. I thought it was a really interesting game. I just think that, you know, one of the things I was asked to make a pretty on Friday. And one of the things I always think about with these teams, and it comes from when I was around those Seattle teams a little bit when they were really, really good and they were winning sort of 17 to 10 games a lot, kind of early in the Russell Wilson era. And, you know,

one of the things I remember somebody saying was that when you play a lot of those low scoring games, you get comfortable in those low scoring games. And because you're always sort of one play away from disaster. You're always playing in a 14 to 9 game. You're always playing in a 16 to 14 game and you get comfortable with it and you're not nervous like everybody else. And that is why I thought the Bears were going to win this game was because I imagined everything that was going to happen up until that fourth down. I imagined that they were going to be comfortable and have that fourth down stand. When they had the first three downs, I said this, thank God, this is exactly what I predicted. And then we just saw a sort of Nick Foles, Golden Tate, you know, they just made a play.

That was the difference. I think that that was impressive to me because if I were to bet, even though it was a low, it was a low probability event for them to have a goal line stand for four straight downs, I imagined it would happen because the bears were built for it. That was, if there was any team in the NFL who was going to make that stand, it was going to be the Chicago Bears. That's why I was impressed with what the Eagles were able to do.

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the reason you trade for Golden Tate, is to have a guy who was able to exist. in that sort of high leverage, tight margin moment. And that's exactly what he did. It's, it was, I think, Sharic McManus in that moment.

And it's, there's your backup slot cornerback. And you have a couple moments where it would be really nice to have Eddie Jackson in that game. It's just, it was, it was such. And I also think, by the way,

on the offensive side, Trey Burton being out is a little bigger than maybe people gave it credit for. We didn't talk about it because it literally didn't happen until what, Saturday morning? Yeah, the offense was a disaster. They were so bad for most of the game. And that's the biggest question with the Bears going forward is what happens with Trubisky.

And he was notably terrible so many times in this game. And if that doesn't improve, then it doesn't really matter if the defense can sustain this moving forward. And the problem is, the second part of that, equation is likely not going to happen because for the most part, what, which elements of the defense are coming back next year? Vic Fangio was likely going to be a head coach in a couple months here. Adrian Amos is a free agent. Bryce Callahan is a free agent. You don't have that much room under the cap. If you sign one of them, I don't, can you sign the other? There's so many

things going on here. It's what makes it really, really tough the process emotionally because I don't know if they're going to have a better shot than this. And I don't know if Trubisky is going to be better to make up for it. Because we've talked about this so many times. It's in order to stave off regression, you need to be a slightly different version of the team you were the year before. The Seahawks have done it with various defenders kind of stepping up and stepping back.

the Patriots have done it so many different ways. Schematically, everything else. The bear's offense needs to make up for the step back, the defense is inevitably going to take. And watching that game today, I just don't have much faith in that happening. Okay. So a couple of things.

I agree a lot of times with these elite defenses, we always assume the offense is going to get better the next year. I mean, that was sort of what everybody was banking on with Jacksonville, and that just didn't happen, obviously. not only that the defense regressed to mortal. It wasn't like the Jaguars defense was the worst in the NFL. I mean, no, they were still a pretty good defense. They weren't just historically good.

They didn't have the two best statistical cornerbacks in the NFL, and Jalen Ram's and AJ Boy playing at an incredible level with it in 2017, and everything fell apart from there. Or if you're the Jaguars, you just playing Leonard Fournette. So I agree with you. I would not guess that this team is going to win the division next year, having said that, I didn't think they were going to win it this year.

I thought the Vikings had a lot more talent than they did. I was wrong. So I think that it's going to be an interesting offseason and what they're able to do. I still think when you have people, whether or not Vic Fangio comes back is a massive, massive point. But I think there's a couple of things to take Solison. I mean, Eddie Jackson is still going to come back.

Colomac, obviously, is under contract. I mean, they can have, they have the rookie contract with Trubisky for at least two more years. So I think they're going to be in position to make some moves get a little better, but I do not anticipate them sort of building themselves into a dynasty. This is not, there are a handful of teams who are a better position going forward than the Chicago Bears. Absolutely. And again, that's why this is just such a heartbreaking loss because they could have won that game. It's one field goal.

And in the playoffs, it's just about surviving. it's about giving yourself a shot the next week. And if they had, then who knows what would have happened? I mean, you go to Los Angeles and you figure it out. And if you beat them, then it's just the inches in this game and how small the margin of error is and how small. You're going full out, but you know, any given Sunday here, bud. But that's what it was. And if you do win, then who knows if you can win the next week?

And there is no guarantee that you'll be back. And that's why it's just a really tough night. The only guarantee on who can return is Nick Foles, who now has a 105 pass rating in the postseason, which is the best of all time, minimum 150 attempts. There you go. All right. Do you want to say anything about the-

Do you know who previously held the record until tonight? I probably don't. Joe Montana? Bart Star. Wow. Sorry, Bart Star. You got Owen, brother. Nick Foles, Bard Star,

always mentioned them in the same breath. I expected to. So anything else to say about the Eagles or we kind of just, we'll save that for the Eagles Saints preview that we inevitably have to do next week. I think you're seeing what the Eagles have built. You're seeing roster depth everywhere. I mean, one of the lessons of the Eagles last year is they were able to win a damn Super Bowl with a, with backups at the two most important positions, I think, which is left tackle and quarterback. And not in that order, obviously. But I think that you're just seeing what, how you're, Roseman is built, Doug Pearson's coaching ability. I mean, they're doing it again. I mean, even if they lose next week, it is still remarkable that they went on this run

and they've won a playoff game. That is remarkable. They went into Chicago and played probably the best defense in the NFL and they won a game. This is a testament to coaching and general managing and ownership and being a very sturdy organization. I totally agree. And watching that game

today, Khalil Mack didn't do anything. No. They, for the most part, They managed to slow down the pass rush. You know, Floyd had that one sack. I'm fairly certain that's the only sack they had. You know, Foles had a ton of room to operate. It was what we talked about this week.

The infrastructure that the Eagles have built around Nick Foles allowed this to happen. And he made a couple of plays that were necessary and they got a couple breaks. It's not dissimilar to the formula we saw last season. What's the Eagles formula? Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know. I mean, I think, I think Hallie Roseman is probably the best general manager in football. Yeah. I think that's fair. Yeah. I mean, we'll talk about Chris Bauer to the Colts here in a little bit.

Oh, man. This is kind of a walkoff for his executive of the year thing, man. Yeah. I mean, it's, I'm, I'm happy to give it to him after the results from yesterday and the results from today. But, hey, can we briefly talk about the 15% rule? Yeah, if you want to. Colts and Eagles go in the conference championship game. Cool. Let's do that. That sounds great. Colts Eagles conference championship game appearances. I'm rooting for them now.

I fucking hate everything. I'm sorry you got owned by the 15% rule, brother. But, you know, that's just something I can do about it. Yeah, I know. It's math and it's just the cosmic elements of what's going on in the world. I am upset for you that I understand the rhythms of the universe on accident, but it's just the way we're going to have to deal with this. Yeah, I know.

I know. All right. We're going to go in reverse chronological order here. Let's get to Ravens and Chargers. I don't know what to say about this game other than the Chargers are good. Shut out. I mean, I was so impressed with their approach. And this is not only from a coaching standpoint, but just from a mindset standpoint,

watching that defense play and especially their front. the amount of penetration, how deep they were getting in the backfield, just the idea that they were going to blow up every single action, pulling guards, motions, all that stuff that Baltimore was doing. It was the exact sort of game I needed to see from the Chargers coaching staff to have the utmost faith in their roster talent. Yep. I mean, I was completely wrong about this game.

And I think that it's because I just intends. as we discussed, I didn't, there were a couple of things I did anticipate. Number one is I thought the play calling was pretty bad. I think that this was not a great weekend for modern coaching. And I think that there were just positions that Lamar was put in on Sunday that were probably not the best. Okay. He also did not play well. He really did not. I mean, let me, let me back up here. Lamar Jackson for three quarters played like absolute garbage. I'm not going to, to say that John Harbaugh, Marty Morning, or Greg Roman is the reason he played like garbage. I'm saying that when I thought about this game, I didn't anticipate the game plan that I saw on Sunday. But what I also anticipated was that the run game talent was going to be able to overcome this Chargers defense, which is, as I've said many times, built to be really athletic and built to stop, stay with the Patrick Mahomes of the world. Well, apparently they're built to stay with Lamar Jackson's of the world, too. and that's what I,

that was where I was, I was wrong huge, I guess you could say. They were in the backfield all the time. They were daring him to throw and he could not throw. Derwin James was everywhere. Joey Boso was in the backfield. The safeties were everywhere.

The safeties were everywhere. Them playing those three guys together was really, really smart because it just gave them a level of just, they were not predictable. Having Phillips Adai and Derwin on the field for a majority of the snaps, and the way they used them, it was really smart. Did you see,

I mean, Gus Bradley did a great, great job. Did you see the stat, okay, this is from next gen stats. On 58 of 59 defensive snaps, the chargers utilize seven defensive backs.

There it is. It's those three, and it was the safeties. Because for the most part, when you think about seven defensive backs, you're talking about dime, you're talking about more corners. they threw three safeties in that game,

and they really played with Baltimore's assignments. And for those safeties that play that big against a run-heavy team, most teams don't have that flexibility defensively. And that's exactly what the Churchill showed off today. Well, here's the second part of that, which is going to speak to this. This is from Adam Schefter.

No team has used seven defensive backs on more than blank snaps in a game this season. Bill in the blank, Robert. 10. 18. Yeah, that's amazing. So they went from 18, the NFL, an NFL team had knocked on 18, 19 snaps with more than seven defensive backs,

and the Charters did it 58 times. That's how you want a playoff game. That's how you make an adjustment, okay? That was good coaching, because everybody kept, obviously we all saw the Baltimore, Los Angeles game last month. We all saw, and they played a big role in me thinking that Baltimore is going to win this game by 10 points. And the game plan that they came up with,

Gus Bradley, his tenure in Jacksonville, made us all forget how good of a defensive coach he was in Seattle. I just, I'm hugely impressed with the Chargers. And after that game, after the way they played against, and I would say they did a steady job against that defense. The Baltimore defense did a very, very good job, but given the positions they were put in on Sunday. But I would say after that game,

I'm not 100% confidence patients are going to win. next week. I feel the exact same way. I really do believe that the Chargers can go in and win in that game. And I don't feel less confident about the Chargers offense because I think that's just how good Baltimore's defenses. And it's almost as it, it's similar to as if the Bears had won this game, it's if you win, who gives a shit? You trust what you've been for most of the season on either side of the ball. And I absolutely think the Chargers offense can go in and take it to the Patriots defense. And based on what their coaching staff was able to show this week, yeah, it's now we discussed

it a lot before the playoffs started. Being on the road that often is tough. And the Chargers had three road games and that's how it was going to go. But now it's two. And one of them is against a Patriots team that I don't think. think has the talent top to bottom that this Chargers roster has. And so, yes, I totally agree. I mean, I think at this point, you look at all the advantages that each team has.

And at this point, I'm looking at Belichick is a better coached Anthony Lynn, even though Anthony Lynn coached a hell of a game on Sunday. And has coached a hell of a season. Yep. I mean, that, his, the job that staff overall has done, I think that was what would have held what would have held this team back. So coming into the year,

and I'll watch it, I'll finish in a second. Coming into the year, I think the two teams, I was probably higher on, just, I don't know if you were ranking them than anyone else. I wrote, I did a power rankings.

You probably can document this. Were the Browns and the Chargers. And it was about overall roster talent and construction. And with the Browns, it was, coaching staff going to hold them back? And for the most part, the answer was yes over the first couple months. And the same was true with chargers. Is the coaching staff going to hold them back?

And with the chargers, the answer is no. The coaching staff really did let that team flourish in a way that was not necessarily a guarantee coming into the year. And that's the biggest thing with me is that both Anthony Lynn and Gus Bradley have done really, really good jobs. And I think that's why this team is really dangerous right now. Yeah. I, yeah. And now it's funny because I think, I think, and this may be just just a me problem. I think we conflated the Chargers kicker problems with bad coaching. Correct. Really, I think it was just they had a bad kicker.

I think that that's a fair statement. But go back and look at how predictable they were. Yeah. On like first and ten situations last year. Yeah. Yes. It's just, I don't, you're right. I think that, but that was, we were making a lot of jokes about kind of the other elements of who the

charges were outside of the talent of the players and their team. But I think that the coaching quality has definitely improved this season and it's been really good down the stretch. Yeah, I wrote about that a little bit in my analytics story a couple weeks ago, just how, how much more they're passing on first and second down, which was really there was their problem, aside from the kicking in 2017, which is that they were just, they were running the ball a little too much. they have Philip Rivers, let him make plays,

and they've sort of embraced that in 2018. So I agree that there was some predictability problems. Again, so Anthony Lynn, very good coach. Sorry, Bill Belichick is better. I don't know how to finish the sentence about Tom Brady and Philip Rivers because I don't want to besmirch the goat. I mean, it's going to be amazing.

I'm very much looking forward to that game. I'm just saying if the names were removed at this point, I think you would probably say the better form right now is going to Philip Rivers. Yeah, but I mean, he wasn't very good today. He hasn't been very good over the last month, but he's also played the Ravens twice over the last month. And so the advantages, here's my thing, though. Being Tom Brady is an advantage. I'm giving the quarterback advantage to Tom Brady, but for old time sake, okay? So I'm right now, I'm at coach is better, quarterback is better. And playing in Foxborough is just some mystical Nick Fulseyian thing where they just, they win all the time. And so those are the things going in favor of New England. As far as Los Angeles goes, they've got a lot of other advantages. They have an incredible pass rush. They have athletes everywhere.

They have a legitimate running game. They have skill position guys that the, I mean, Keenan Allen, the damn Patriots would kill to have a Keenan Allen. They'd kill to have a Williams. I mean, yes. So it is, it's going to be an incredible matchup. And I have not thought about it enough. Let's leave it for the Thursday, Thursday episode as far as, you know,

actual predictions. But what I can say is the Patriots have advantages where it matters most and the Chargers have more advantages. And that's what's really interesting to make. One of the Chargers' advantages is that Melvin Ingram can be the best player on the field in a playoff game. Watching him today was amazing. And I tweeted about this,

but I think that it's kind of a, it's a complex point that I don't know if I totally if it came out the right way and it came across the right way. So what him and Bosa can do is different than what a guy, I'm trying to think of the right comparison. Because there are a lot of guys that are great kind of edge rushers that can bend the corner and that are past rushers and everything else. And then there are specific types of players that affect the game in different ways where they are great run defenders,

where they are able to change direction really well. They have great inside counter moves, that kind of stuff. And the way that Melvin Ingram played today, just how many times he was ducking inside into the sea gap on plays, he shouldn't. It's just blowing up plays he had no business blowing up. And that was the thing that jumped out to me about the Chargers defense today is just that athletes that are making plays outside of maybe what they're supposed to be making. And that's why I thought the Chargers were dangerous coming into the season. interior pressure as well. Correct.

And they, both of those guys lined up as the three technique on a couple huge plays. Bosa had a sack as the three technique. Ingram had a sack on that. Spin move as the three technique. It's a really nice combination

of defensive coaching that puts those guys in positions to succeed because they're willing to be a little bit creative and players who are malleable in the roles in which they can succeed. And that's a good. exactly what you saw today. And I think that's exactly what you can see for the rest of the

playoffs. All I thought coming into the season, they could hold the charges back was a coaching staff that did not make the most of the talent that it had. And that's why today was so encouraging, because you had all the talent I thought they were going to have coming into the season and a coaching staff that knew exactly how to get the most of it. Yep. I mean, it's amazing. I also think they're now, they are still undefeated on the road. I really do think. And the players, have talked about this. I think there's something to sort of us against the world mentality because they never play a home game. I mean, I saw it a little bit. I saw it a little bit in the Pittsburgh game

where they seem just unnaturally close for a team. And I think it, and they're just kind of like, I don't know, they celebrate a little more than most teams. It just seemed to me like they have a closeness because I don't know. There's not a lot of, they're not a lot of chargers fans in this world. And I feel like there's something to that. I really, really do. Did you see Russell O'Coon floated a conspiracy theory that Roger Goodell does not want the Chargers to win

the Super Bowl? I did not see that, but I can definitely see Russell O'Coon saying that. So, I have a question about that, just very quickly. So what was it? Give me like the tenets of that point. He said, Roger. Well, so obviously there was a very, very fishy holding penalty

on the Melvin Gordon run that should have ended the game. With that and then there was also the two touchdown or the one touchdown that wasn't a touchdown and then right the almost fumble that became a touchdown this was That became a fourth and three player whatever it was this was specifically his his holding call because it was against him Yeah, I did I did not support that holding call. I thought that was well I mean that's and that's what we talked about with the home field stuff even though I mean again The stat is no team that has made the Super Bowl has played a road game since 2012 since 2012 season that is the stat. So there have been obviously wild card upsets on the road. There have been

as we've talked about, the Packers beat the Cowboys there. That was one of the rare instances where once he hasn't made the Super Bowl the last couple years. But the reason it happens is because the home team gets a big call. And that's an example of a big call that could have swung the game. I keep going. Oh, are we

I'm sorry, do you want to talk about it again? I'm fine. You're fine. Just keep talking. So Russell Coom said the fact that I'm even doing this right now, I feel like I should get a fucking medal thank you for your service, Robert. Thank you very much, buddy. Quote, Roger Goodell doesn't want it to come home to the Chargers. First of all, what home?

Second of all, it can't come home. I don't understand what that means. He means like the Lamarty trophy? Yeah, I don't know. So second of all, I have a question. Here's the actual point I want to make. If he was fixing it, if Roger Goodell was fixing it, don't you think he would fix it for the one team

that literally they're having meetings about how they're not going to meet revenue projections wouldn't that help them? Yeah, I think this is kind of a convoluted you know, not well thought out sort of deal. It's just a strange conspiracy thing. It kind of goes back to what I say all the time

about how like people say, oh, they fix games to the Patriots. Well, why not fix games for the Packers and the Steelers and the Cowboys? So all of whom are significantly more popular. I kind of ascribing this evil genius quality to the NFL in general. Yeah, I think that's really overstating like how smart these dudes are. Sub-TMZ investigators, just like they completely screw up almost every disciplinary thing.

And yet they're managed to have formed this $15 billion industry that has thousands employees into one big referee conspiracy. The only thing I want to say about that Russell... That favors the New England Patriots somehow. Yeah, exactly. The only thing I want to say about that Russell Okun holding point

is that my least favorite NFL Twitter is holding Twitter. And we really need to start understanding. I don't really know holding Twitter. I think that's if you're like an offensive line guy. That's exactly right. It's like... I don't follow anybody in holding Twitter.

But it's, it's... No, it's more about the people responding to you about certain plays. And like the Quentin Nelson-Judevian-Clowny pancake. And how it was like, oh, that's holding. So there's holding on every play. Let's come to understand this. The only time holding gets called is when a defensive player is moving against the grain of where the play is. So if an offensive player is grasping a defensive player,

but the defensive player does not change direction in any way over that play, especially like within the tackle box, that's not going to get called. Everyone like calm down. It just drives me insane. Like that's did Russell Okun was he outside the frame on that play? Yes. But the player was moving in the direction of what was happening the entire time

and it wasn't necessarily a holding. So I don't know. This weekend, as everyone's watching the same game, it becomes more and more apparent to me, like how many people are bishing about holding calls and the refs and everything else. And it just starts to drive me insane. But that's all I have to say about that.

We can move on. You're really putting holding Twitter on notice. I just say, I hate it. It's one of my least favorite things. It's like the things that will make me to say, like, no, I'm done with you. That was holding when pointing out like a really nice block is probably my favorite. like just the most automatic one.

All right. Speaking of things that are really frustrating me, let's get to Brian Schottenheimer and the Cowboys Seahawks, the buckle. Dude, we bought into Brian Schottenheimer a little bit. I think it's because of those cable Thanos videos. Yeah, it was easy to kind of get intoxicated by the Seahawks. I was hyped on it. A good hype video could make me believe anything.

Is that the worst call? game you have ever seen in a big NFL moment. Oh. Oh, in a big NFL moment. I have to think about it a little more, but I don't remember, I don't remember a worse one. It's got that for me. I don't remember a worse one. What would it be? Oh, I know. It's when the, uh, the Rams played the Patriots in the Super Bowl and the players are going over to Mike Martz telling them, telling him that Belichick knew the entire game plan and they had to switch it up and Mike Martz wouldn't do it. Yeah, that's, that's, That's fair. That was 18 years ago. I was not nearly as engaged with the sport as I am now. I was the same age. I was grinding tape. So that's on you, bud.

Watching that game yesterday. And it's not as if it was a shock. Because all season, the Seahawks had been this. Run heavy, asking Russell Wilson to... Three running backs. Yeah. Run heavy.

Three running backs. having that be just the crux of who they are offensively, asking Russell Wilson to make a tone of tight window, high difficulty throws outside the numbers, and really relying on guys like Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett to make plays that probably shouldn't have been made. It wasn't shocking. But watching that game and just seeing how dedicated they were

to that approach when it wasn't. working, it was remarkable. I just don't understand how you can be an NFL team with one of the best quarterbacks in the league and watch how well you're moving the ball when you're throwing it and then refuse to throw it for four straight quarters. I just, it was so bizarre. When they used play action, it worked. You don't need to run well.

You don't need to run well. establish the play action, just do it. You have Russell Wilson. I mean, to be honest with you, I feel like it's not even a conservative game plan. It's just a nonsensical one because the

conservative game plan is to take what your team does well and do it over and over and over again. And what your team does well is literally have Russell Wilson. It's, I understand, you know that, we know this. anyone who's ever listened to this podcast

knows that no one loves play action passing more than me I understand that you need to run every once in a while maybe it's Kyle Shannonhan. Kyle Shannonhan's number one, I'm number two. You need to run the ball every once in a while to have a play action

offense because you need to meld the two together. That's the most important thing. But like every once in a while does not mean every third player. maybe like, I don't even know. I would go as low as humanly acceptable.

That's exactly. Unless there was a real reason like it was third and one. That's exactly right. And so it's, let's just discuss the kind of anatomy of every single drive. It's run, run, pass. And if you, so it's run, run past every drive. You have, you know, 14, 15 drives. How about on half of those drives that run on first down is a play action pass?

Yep. That's enough. That is enough to give credence to those run fakes in those scenarios. You don't have, I mean, there was a moment during that game where Russell Wilson was averaging 8.3 yards per attempt. Yep. And the Seahawks running backs had carried the ball 20 times for 60 yards. it doesn't need to be that ratio. It just doesn't.

It sure doesn't. It can be 12 runs and 28 passes and the effect of those run fakes can still be the same. We have so much math that supports this. But dude, it's not even just the commitment to this particular game and running the ball. It's spending a first round pick on a running back.

I mean, it's just, it's an organizational problem. If you did not believe in running the ball, your lives would be so much better. You would not only get to use Russell Wilson and Doug Baldwin and Taylor Lockett more effectively, you would have had a better first round pick. You would have had more value of positions where it matters. I mean, that's the problem for me. And I don't know. I mean, it's just, it's very frustrating because they've had, they have so many players that I really like.

And I really do think Pete Carroll is kind of a visionary in this era of unlimited offense with sort of how he built that defense. And I understand that running the ball is a part of his philosophy. But I just feel like generally it's, I wish he could change his ways at this point in his career. That drive where they had those two back-to-back throws, the one to Dixon coming, it was a play-action throw coming back left,

and it was like a corner route that they had a big gain on. And then they came back with a play-action throw on the next first down to lock it, down like inside the 10. it's beautiful to watch that version of the Seahawks offense. And when you're watching it happen, I was saying out loud in the press box, just do it every time.

Just do it every time. Like, why not? What is stopping you from having that be the basis of who you are? You can be a run-heavy team. Look at the ramps. Look at the percentage of the time the Rams run the ball versus the percentage of the time the Rams run play action. It doesn't have to be,

on this side of the equation. You can do it less often and still have it be your identity. And that's the word that's kept coming up over and over again. Running the ball is their identity. Play action is their identity. It can be,

and it can be a 40% running the ball situation and a 60% throwing the ball situation with 40% of those dropbacks being play action. It's just very, very, why don't they make the whole point out of the black box kind of thing? Yes. just do it.

Just if something works, just do it over and over and over again. So what do you think happens with Wilson? Because I tweeted about this this morning. It was kind of in jest. Okay. The notion that if you're going to be this team, why in God's name would you give a quarterback

$30 million? You just wrote about it this week. Just how much that sort of contract hinders your franchise. And if you're going to be a team that doesn't emphasize, quarterback play as often as possible. Obviously, Russell Wilson's making plays is the reason the Seahawks are where they are. They needed him to be this person. But if you're not going to be a guy or not going to be a team, not going to be a coaching staff, not going to be an organization that builds who you are around the quarterback's talent and gives him every chance to be the most

important player on your roster, why would you give a guy $30 million? You know, I had a conversation. I had a conversation that got kind of cut from that quarterback contract story with a guy named Joel Corey who is really, really smart. Everybody is one of the smartest guys that exists in this business right now. One of, aside from the NFL GMs who I quoted, and maybe including NFL GMs I talked to, the three people I quoted in that story are smarter than a lot of people in football. Jason Fitzgerald, Zach Moore, and Joel Corey, all of whom are very, very good to understanding in the cap. And so, and by the way, I swear to God, like, I know people are saying, well, those guys can't be smarter than the GM. No, on the cap stuff, they're smarter than half the

They absolutely can't be. All three of those guys are much smarter. A lot of dumb people work in football. But what I'm saying is, so, yeah, those three guys absolutely are very, very smart. And, and I really enjoy talking to them because they teach me things. I talked to Joel Corey about this Russell Wilson thing. And we talked a little bit about the fact that as, as many people, have pointed out, including NFL GMs, there's sort of a new category where it's the deals that age and they go down. And now Russell Wilson and Andrew Locke are on vaguely bargaining deals because there's deals are signed in 2015 and 2016, respectively. So next year's cap hit is $25 million. Okay. That's a lot, but it's not a backbreaking amount. If Russell Wilson had hit the open

market last year he would have made a hell of a lot more or this year so 25 million dollars we got him at he if he's franchised and he's franchised again i think joel cori said the number is about two years 68 if they do it twice so you've got to start negotiating by the way he has a baseball agent and the whole thing was to drive a hard bargain and so you've got a situation where you've got to beat two years 68 if he wants now there's my he might pull a tom brady and try to you know take less in order to build out of team. I don't really know if he's going to do that. I certainly wouldn't do that, Robert Mays.

You would not do that. This is assuming he wants all the money he can get. It starts a two-year-s 68. And I think that's going to be really fascinating to see what a four-year deal for Russell Wilson looks like and whether or not the Seahawks, who are a forward-thinking organization, try to do the we're not going to pay a quarterback thing,

even though they have the one quarterback you should pay. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be fascinating. The way they try to build what this team is moving forward, I think is worth watching again, because he's a quarterback that's in a rarefied conversation. He's awesome. Yeah, we should be paying attention to what the Seahawks choose to do because even though we try to identify them as this defense first, whatever franchise,

P. Carroll's been there for the entire time. They've been this version of who they are. The way that Russell Wilson played this year, I just think that we should be talking about him the same way we talked about what Mike McCarthy was doing with Aaron Rogers this year. If you're spoiling that sort of player, it's malpractice and something needs to be done about it. And that's why I'm really curious to see what happens with Schadenheimer. I don't understand how you can bring him back. You need to do something different.

And if they don't, then they should be excoriated. Free Russell. Let's talk about the Cowboys very briefly before we get to the last game. one thing I want to make clear Cowboys fans are going to get mad at us Eagles fans are going to get mad at us We're going to talk like the whole show about these teams on Thursday

That's exactly right That's exactly right The Cowboys are good And they're dunking on me I don't know how good the Cowboys are Oh there you go Hear that Cowboys fans I don't know how good the Cowboys are

Go with him I'm intrigued by who the Cowboys are And I was at that game this week And again, that team is watching them play. I made a joke watching Scott Linahan and Brian Schott and I'm coach against each other is watching a game with Checkers and it really is. But there's so many elements of that game watching it from Dallas where it's like, all right, like, I get it.

And it's several levels. one, the offensive line played very well against the Seahawks defensive line that's been pretty good this season. And if the Dallas offensive line is healthy and playing well, it's a huge boost for them at every single game. Two, Ezekiel Elliott was really, really, really good. And they need him to be. And the ways in which they used him, screen passes, kind of runs getting him out of the perimeter, which they did several different times. It was a really nice game plan.

Three, DAC running the ball, especially in the red zone. That is a huge weapon for them. And him using his legs is a necessary element for this offense to be dangerous and the games really matters. Four, this is a defensive team now. And that is who the Dallas Cowboys are. They have been all season. They have been since they destroyed, and I don't use that term lightly, they really did the best better than anybody at destroying the New Orleans Saints offense.

I'm with you. They solved the New Orleans Saints offense when no one else could. And that was amazing. And that's why I knew this team could win a playoff game or two. Watching them just move. It's not dissimilar to watching what Melvin Ingram did today. But watching Van der Wesch in the Open Field, watching Jalen Smith, watching that defensive line,

they are just flying around. And it makes them scary. And it makes them intriguing. And it's, you watch that unit. And I don't think there is good as the Bears. I don't think there's as good as the Ravens. You know, roster talent top to bottom and just overall discipline. But I think that there are shades of the same type of coaching quality.

And it's fun. That team just, I don't know. They got something on defense right now. And I believe in them much more today than I did two days ago. You want to talk about the value of drafting athletes? You got to start with the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, they went out and they identified that they were unathletic a handful of years ago. And we've talked about this before.

I mean, teams get unathletic and they realize we got to get athletes and they start drafting off of, you know, literal what they call workout warriors, which used to be a pejorative in this industry and it no longer is. They went out and they got a Byron Jones. Ouzier is another one of these guys, just a great athlete. And now they have it everywhere. Jalen Smith was a little harder to project because that injury, Leighton Van derrash is not. You told me, you went out to damn, is it Idaho?

Yeah. Yeah, you went out to damn Idaho. And the first thing you said was, you're going to love Leighton Van derrash. He jumps like a maniac. And yeah, that's true. He's everywhere. He's an athlete.

And so if you want to see athleticism in motion and the value of athleticism, you can start with the Dallas Cowboys. The other team you can start with is the Kansas City Chiefs, where John Dorsey really implemented athletes everywhere. this is there's a lot of things that that that tie these teams together but one of them is they've got legitimate freak athletes everywhere and kudos to jerry jones or will mcley or whoever the hell it is who's who decided to figure out uh how to get athletes on the roster all right let's stick with teams that have done a fantastic job drafting the indianapolis

colts in my opinion yeah there's another one because chris balladwork for johnny dorsi The Indianapolis Colts had the most impressive win of the weekend. And I think the implications of that win are even more wide-ranging than just them playing next week. And I think it's on a couple different levels. One, the Colts are set up to be a really, really good team for a long time. And we just had a discussion at the beginning of the show about, will the bears be able to come back and everything else? The difference between the Bears Outlook and the Colts Outlook

is that the Colts are built around one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and they have every reason to be better next year. They have $114 million in Capspace. The Bears have 20. They were not reliant on a transcendent defense this year. They were reliant on a combination of great coaching that outclassed the talent that they had on the roster. And the other side of it is

this was the Colt, or excuse me, this was the Texan's chance. This season is the best opportunity they were going to have to take that division. And it's gone. That team is set up to be the class of the AFC South for at least the next

five years. And it was not supposed to happen this quickly. The rebuilding process in Indianapolis was not supposed to take a year and a half. And I cannot say enough about the job that Frank Rake and Chris Ballard have done? All hail Chris Ballard.

A couple things. Number one, I was surprised how bad Deshaun Watson played. I assumed my general theory on this game was that Deshaun Watson and DeAndre Hopkins, who obviously was clearly banged up, that he was, they were going to both them, by the way, if you saw Deshaun Watson's hand and the fact that he had to take a bus two months ago to go to a game. But I thought that those two guys were going to sort of solve. any and all problems that the Texans offense had. And I was wrong.

The Texans, they, they, they were probably coaching problems. The game plan was weird. They just looked disjointed. The defense, I mean, I have no idea what the hell was going on through defense, especially early. I mean, Ty Hilton, you said it, he was playing on one foot and he was absolutely torching them. So it was just, it was, I don't even know.

The whole thing seemed to just get away early from the Texans, probably some bad coaching. They certainly don't lack roster talent. It was just a complete disaster. I think they do, though. I think they do. And so let's... I'm sorry, on the offensive line,

but where else they have a good... The secondary. The secondary. Justin Reed was banged up. That was a huge problem. Justin Reed was banged up, but they clearly have a lack of athleticism at corner. And it started to haunt.

I agree. Well, I mean, Jonathan Joseph is... Jonathan Joseph is old. 100 years old. And it's, and they don't have that much. on the other side. They need more suddenness and athleticism at a corner. And that's the most disheartening part about this with the Texans to me, is that if you look at what just happened, we already know they need more talent on the offensive line.

They clearly need an injection of youth in the secondary. We're starting to pile up the needs here. I agree with that, but I feel like with a better offense, they could have very easily been in this game. I disagree. I agree. I think that they could not stop them. I mean, in the second half, luck wasn't otherworldly good.

Like, he wasn't. Yeah, I understand that. But there were, there were opportunities, what I'm saying is there were opportunities, you get up to that much of a lead. There were opportunities for Watson to, to climb back in it and they never could.

Yeah, but when you're up three scores and everything else, I think the game and the complexion of it changes. It's, it's that side of it. And then I didn't get, I didn't peeheed enough. to how bad of a matchup it was schematically for the Texans.

The fact that they just really sit back in those zones and force you to fit balls in. Watson was just missing those zone busting throws. That was the problem. And that's why I think the Mahomes matchup might be a little bit better for the chiefs because I don't think, I don't think, Watson threw so many passes where I was just like,

what the hell was that? Yeah. I don't necessarily know if Mahom is going to do that. I love Watson, but I don't think that's the right defense for him to start picking apart. And then you go to the other side of it, and it's the exact opposite. They more or less, we're going to sit and cover two, and the Colts had so many plays that were designed to shred too high safeties and exploit the middle of the field. And they did it over and over and over again. And so you think about just by virtue of who these teams or the fact that the Colts had a chance.

And then you go to how great of a game that Frank Wright called. And then you go to how many spots the improvements in this team just showed up over and over and over again. Quinn Nelson, I think a lot of, I run the risk of overstating it just because the position matters to me and everything else. You definitely do. he, like, he destroyed a defensive line for an entire game. He was an animal. And what that does and just the level at which they dominated that Texans front and Brayton Smith played well against Watt for the most part, you know, I, it's just that

team and the way that they have built it is phenomenal. And I am so excited to watch them for the next two or three years. I don't know if they could beat the, the chiefs on the road. I'm tempted to say that they can't, but good Lord has Chris Ballard set that team up to succeed. Yeah, no, without a doubt. I mean, I think we can get into it more on Thursday. I think it's oddly,

I know everyone is really excited about the Colts. I think it's kind of a bad matchup because of how well Moham's done against zone this year, but we'll get in more that. And it's a bad matchup because the chiefs are the best team in the AFC. No, of course. I'm just saying we're, everyone seems to be really excited about the Colts

in their, I guess, momentum. Are we still doing momentum? I'm hearing a lot of momentum in the playoffs this week. My momentum about the Colts has more to do about who they're going to be a year or two from now than it does about who they're going to be next week. Without a doubt. I mean, the future is bright in Indianapolis.

With Quentin Nelson and the level of beards that both Frank Reich and Andrew Luck have, the Colts just get me. And I think that at a certain point, I probably have to adopt them as my team of choice here over the rest of the playoffs because my team is out of it. Would I move there? Yeah.

No. You know, you get, you know, Quentin Ellison there, got some beards. No. We went to a nice bar there that one time, had a lot of, like, beer on tap. I feel like that's, you could, you could do it. Let's get you to Indianapolis. Let's start the maze to indie movement. I mean, I guess so.

there are places in Indianapolis that I like. I think, look, you're on your way already. Bluebeard is a really good restaurant. There's that fried chicken place that I really like that I can't remember the name of right now. What's the bar we went to? Oh, the eagle. The eagle is the bar I was thinking about.

No, no, no. That's the fried chicken place that I really like in Indianapolis. But it's not one of those places. So there's all those places like Prime or whatever that everybody, what are those places called everybody at the Combine goes to? And it's like, oh, look, there's John Schneider and Steve Kime. and it's like a, it's,

yeah, Prime 47. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the worst place to see, um, it's like the lowest rung of celebrity sightings is just go to prime during the,

the combine. It's like, oh, wow, it's Dan Quinn. Yeah, no, those are not the,

it's like going to catch in Los Angeles, except instead of Brad Pittitts, Frank Reich. All right, buddy, uh, I think that's all we got. I,

I'm going to go kind of be with my thoughts for a little while. Okay. Wait, you're not in Chicago, so you can't even walk the dog. I am in Dallas. Can you find a dog to walk? I could, but I'm not sure that the owner of the dog would appreciate that. Just explain the situation.

I'm going to go write about some football and, again, kind of just be alone for a little while. It's, I just want to kind of do like a post-mortem very quickly. Okay. This was one of the most fun bears teams of one. my lifetime. I loved this team. That defense was a pleasure to watch every single week. I truly believe that they can be really good again next year. I think that the degree of difficulty doing that is high. And I'm just not banking on it. And that's why I kind of threw

myself so hard into this season and what they could be. I thought these playoffs were extremely wide open. And them taking advantage of that field was something they could do and something that may have necessary. And the fact that they couldn't do that, that they won this game this ugly, that it was an inch or two away from being a team that went to the divisional round and had a chance to beat the Rams, everything else. It's tough. It's going to take a while to get over this. I'm still not sure I've processed it, but I appreciate all of you letting me try to in your presence. Well said. Thanks, buddy. All right. we'll be back on Thursday as we always are.

I will be doing that show from Dallas. I'm sticking around here all week. And we'll be previewing the division games. There it is. Cool, guys. All right, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you.

See you.