The Ringer NFL Show - The Eagles Fire Doug Pederson

Episode Date: January 13, 2021

We discuss the Eagles cutting ties with Doug Pederson and where both parties go from here (01:00). Later, we look back at the Steelers’ loss to the Browns and discuss Ben Roethlisberger’s future in black and gold (15:00). We also look at Deshaun Watson possibly being traded (29:00), and close the show with playoff predictions for this weekend (37:00). Hosts: Ryan Shazier and Cole Wright Guest: Kaelen Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up, gang? Cole Wright alongside my guy, Ryan Shazir, and our special guest, Kaelin Jones. And we're going to react today to the Doug Peterson firing, the Steelers collapse, and the future of a one Deshawn Watson. Later, we're going to make our picks for the divisional round and all that more is coming your way next, right here on this Wednesday edition of the Ringer NFL show. All right, welcome once again. It's the same show with a little different flair. This time around, it's the Wednesday edition of the Ringer NFL show. And I'm Cole Wright, alongside my my guys, it's former Pittsburgh Steeler and Ohio State Buckeye, Ryan Shazir. And it's staff writer for The Ringer. It's our guy, Kaylin Jones.

You know him from the show. He's here almost every single week. And always remember that you can listen on Spotify and check out all the other Ringer NFL show podcasts. And you can do so five times a week. And just in case you wanted to know, we have a big announcement because this weekend immediately after that final divisional game on Saturday and Sunday, the Ringer NFL show, we'll be going live and direct.

So make sure you're subscribe to the ringer's YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash the ringer, and following us at the ringer NFL on Twitter. Saturday, it's Kevin Clark and Ryan Rusillo. And then on Sunday, Kevin, he's pulling double duty. He's with Nora Princeati. And Thursday, it's going to have Sharp with Joe House, given their preview of the divisional weekend

and their usual betting insights. All right, that's enough of that traffic. Some of the roadmaps to the rest of the week. But in the meantime, we need to get down. the business we'd to look ahead and reflect just a little bit. But before we get to those professional ranks, I mean, those Alabama Crimson Tide, Ryan, I hate to say it, but there's no shame in falling to an absolute juggernaut, Nick Saban and Alabama. That squad, they're as good as it gets. I thought this was an NFL show. It is. I was just tipping my cap to the Ohio State Buckeyes

saying there's no shame in defeat. It's cool. That's cool. I know you're trying to troll me, but it is what it is. You know, man, we had a great year. You know, obviously with COVID, everything's going on. Alabama was the better team that day. I honestly feel player for player. I think we were with those guys. I honestly feel like we were severely outcoached this game.

You know, the Hosman trophy winner was wide open all game. And I feel like it was just some of the schemes that they put us in. But, you know, Alabama was the best team this year. There was the best team. There was number one going into the season. There was number one at the end of the season, man. And I'm glad my guys got there. I was glad I was able to make the game.

You know, I'm going to support my Buckeyes no matter what. You know, I got Buckeyes added on me. So no matter what, man, I love my guys. And I think a lot of the guys from the Buckeyes might be more successful in the NFL anyway. So let's get to this NFL stuff. You know what? You might have a good point there. I'm going to get my researcher on top of that.

And I wasn't trolling about Ohio State. The trolling, that's going to come later in the show. It's going to stay, you know, right around that same neck of the woods, is going to cross state lines. but we're going to get to that sooner rather than later. But in the meantime, we're going to start in the Keystone State, but we're going to start with something that Ryan, that you and I and Kahneland, we all saw it coming, guys,

but a lot of people, maybe they didn't. Doug Peterson, given his walking papers as the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles. And, you know, Kayle, I'm going to start with you because, you know, we talked about it on prior podcast right here on the show. And, you know, I think after going to the Super Bowl, maybe that victory bought him an extra year or two. but what we saw this season, I mean, the back and forth between Carson Wentz

and Jalen Hertz and the indecision, Doug Peterson, it just really appeared as if he wasn't on the same page as Howie Roseman and Jeffrey Lurie. Yeah, no, you nailed it. Like, it didn't seem like Peterson, and that's really what the reports have been saying that Peterson and the Eagles management between Roseman and Lori,

like they just weren't on the same page. What Peterson presented, you know, last week to ownership was an idea like a roadmap of how to get the Eagles back to the Super Bowl, or at least being a contending team, and ownership wasn't, you know, impressed. They ultimately said that, you know, this wasn't the direction they wanted to take the team in.

Peterson said that he wanted, or at least it was reported by in report that, you know, Peterson wanted more power or at least, you know, being able to control or at least, you know, having some more decision-making authority, you know, within the Eagles, you know, plan for the future. So ultimately, it just didn't work. I saw a really good analogy from my guy Ben Salak for SB Nation.

He described it as being like, you know, the Eagles are taking a dead appliance and trying to plug it into a different outlet. You know, just because it might work, sure, it might change something, but it doesn't address the real problems, which is internal where you have like freight wires and stuff that you don't see. I think that there's a lot more to the Eagles situation that, you know, doesn't just have to do with Doug Peterson, the job that he was doing. He just got him to Super Bowl two years ago. It doesn't happen. It's super rare for head coach to get fired. It hasn't happened since 1972 where coach won a Super Bowl, then three years later got fired. It's insane. Yeah, Ryan, it's like the Philadelphia Eagles over there trying to put batteries in the fridge. Like, hold on a second. Let's put them in the freezer. There's still a little bit of extra juice left

in those. And, you know, when Doug Peterson went to ownership and the Eagles brass with that game playing, that roadmap for the future, you know, you talk about gifts and memes and all that. I just think of Day Day from what's Friday after next when he's security. guard top flight of the world. It's just that when he said back, he's like, nah, nah, nah, no. I could see Howie Roseman sitting in that meeting right now. Doug, no, no, no, we're not going with that.

We're not going with that. We're going to send you to HR to talk about that severance package. To me, this is what I'm trying to feel to realize. How are guys that's constantly being unsuccessful starting to ask for more power? You're losing. You can't ask for more power. You have to be winning then ask for more power. Like, you can't be going in the opposite direction and then, hey, man, this isn't my fault.

Let me get some more power. No, it doesn't work that way. To me, honestly think Doug Peterson is a good coach. I think that the situation that happened with him in the wince and the Hertz situation, I think that it really just kind of scared ownership. They just felt like he had no decision-making. He was indecisive and they probably wanted somebody that had a clear-cut direction of where they see the future going. And he probably wanted to do like a two-quarterback system.

I'm not going to guess, but I did see that he was going to be on some Miami Flores type of thing. And I don't think that was going to work over there for the Eagles. But I can definitely see him getting another head coaching job extremely fast, though. I don't see him falling off that fast because when we look at all these candidates, I think he goes right back and jumps right back into one of the top candidates as a coach compared to some of these offensive coordinators. He has the experience, obviously, the last two seasons hasn't been going as well as he would like them to, but the last two seasons, the Eagles, they feel like they have the worst

injuries compared to anybody else in the league. It's like they're always going through injuries, too. So I think he's going to get another head coaching job, but I think the fact that he's just indecisive with his decision-making with the quarterback just drove him off the real. And that's why you're out of there. Ryan, what do you think? Do you think he can get one of the current vacancies is going to be through this cycle or maybe will he have to wait until next year?

Because in addition to his job, there are seven openings right now. There's seven openings right now. And the thing is his first few years at the Eagles were damn good. So, you know, once he get a new team, if he get a young quarterback, I feel like he could go in and establish the offense that he wants to run. If he gets a team that has any type of offense on it and doesn't, get derailed by injuries. I think he can do well.

I honestly think he can do well with the charges. I don't, you know, I think that they have a good offense. Their defense, you know, is up and down sometimes. But I feel like he has a young quarterback. He has a quarterback that's proven, a quarterback, not proven, but he already, he has a lot of potential. He has the receivers. He has the weapons.

I think he can go there and actually at sell at the charges, me personally. And I know we have a lot of. head coaching candidates, but he's somebody that's proven he's got a, he's got a Super Bowl before. It's a lot of coaches that's been coaching for a long time that haven't got a Super Bowl. You know, and obviously he can lead a team there. You need a quarterback that can lead you there also, but he led his team there. And I think, I think he can do it again. I just think, I feel like him and the Eagles weren't going to work out anymore just because of

the way he handled this last year. Kaelin, what do you say, man? Where's the best fit for Doug Peterson right about now? Is it the Chargers? Would it be maybe the Jets or the Falcons, the Lions? What say you? Man, that's a really good question. Because I'm not sure, you know, like which of these openings are really, you know, really suited for.

Maybe Atlanta. I mean, I don't know if he wants to go through, you know, building up another quarterback. Again, I think you need somewhere, again, where you have an established guy. Maybe you have a guy waiting in the wings. Like, if you go to Jacksonville or New York, you're starting over with the young cat. And I don't know. It'd be interesting, though, to see, like, where he ends up. Because this guy with the offensive background,

so it would make sense that, you know, you have New York and Jacksonville that are going to be inheriting, you know, presumably to the first and two quarterbacks in the draft this year. So, I mean, you can see him fit there. But I think that I could see him landing back as the office coordinator, too. I wouldn't be shocked at that either. Like, if he found a way to, you know, pick up an offensive coordinating job and then phasing back in the head coach position.

But, you know, like Ryan said, this guy who won a Super Bowl two years ago. Like he knows, at least has shown that he can have success when everything is breaking right and you have a talented roster. I think that there's just been too many different issues with Philadelphia that led to his departure. Yeah, Ryan, what do you think about this one though? Because now they're, I don't know if they've hired a search firm or if they're out there doing their due diligence trying to bring in that new head coach.

But, you know, they need to find a new head coach. And there's also some question marks when it comes to the quarterback position. because what looked like it was 100%, you know, Jalen Hertz job, then it looked like it was Carson Wentz's, and then you never really knew 100% which side of the fence. Doug Peterson was on when it came to his play caller. You know, I thought originally he was a Carson Wentz guy, but from everything that I've taken away from what Ian Rappaport has reported

and put out there in the media and from everything I've heard from inside the city of Brotherly Love, it appears that, you know, their quarterback situation, it's not going to get any easier with a new head coach coming in because it looks like Carson Wentz. He's going to be the quarterback of the future. But Jalen Hertz, he looks to be the quarterback who can get you wins. So are you saying that the ownership wants Carson Wentz to be the quarterback?

That's everything. All these reports are saying Carson Wentz will still be in Philadelphia. And the biggest sticking point was his relationship with Doug Peterson. I didn't think that was how it was going down because originally it seemed that Doug Peterson was a Carson Wentz guy and he was reluctant to put Jalen Hertz in there. But I guess what do I know? whoever comes in, they're going to have a dilemma because obviously Jalen Hurst started getting you these wins at the end of the season.

And Carson, before he could produce you wins, this year, he was just a totally different animal. I don't know what happened. He just had a terrible year. But I think that the next quarterback that comes in, I mean, the next coach that comes in, he's just going to have a quarterback competition. Whoever does well, you know, Carson Witts might have to play a little bit of extra. extra preseason.

Jenna Hurts might have to play a little bit of extra preseason, but I think the guys who are ever going to come in going to make them to fight for the job, whoever wins it at the beginning of the season, he's going to ride it out. If they're winning or they're losing, if they start slipping down, then he's going to go to the next one.

I can see why the ownership will want to keep wins because if you trade off wince, it's probably a crazy cap hit too. And, you know, I think when it comes to money and you invest in so much money into one guy, it's going to be extremely hard to get them off your book. And when it comes to ownership, I can see when it started becoming business more than football.

You know, so Jaylon Hurts is getting you these wins. But if this guy, you know, he has a $20 million, $30 million cap hit, $40 million cap hit, then sometimes you're going to have to ride it out because this is the same guy that the whole city wanted us to pay and wanted to be here and wanted to be our franchise. You know, so I can see it's going to be tough. You know, if they get a defensive minded head coach in there, I think he's going to be one to focus on trying to get these wins. I think they get an officer head, a minor head coach in there. He's going to be the guy to try to figure out

which is going to be the best quarterback to fit my system and get these wins. So I just depending on whatever coach gets in there and his mindset going into the game. I know at the end of the day, both coaches is trying to get these wins. But an officer minded head coach, like from the bills, Arthur Smith. Brian Daible. Smith, Tennessee. Yeah, Smith is Tennessee.

But yeah, but Brian Debril and Smith, both of them have quarterbacks that people did not believe much in at the beginning of the year. And now both of them are doing really well. You know, so I think those are two guys that could go in and think about, hey, Carson, everybody doubted them. We could probably turn it around. While if you bring a guy that's more focused on defense and more focused on just strictly, hey, we got to go out here and get this W and it doesn't matter how we get it,

that's going to be the type of guy that's just going to have him have a quarterback battle. And if Hurts win, that's our quarterback. It wins to win. That's our quarterback. But I think he's going to focus on more getting the win than trying to develop a new quarterback. Absolutely. Kaelan, what do you think? What's the best option when it comes to head coach

for the Philadelphia Eagles? Because he's going to have his hands full when it comes to selecting that next quarterback. Yeah, no. You know, Ryan made a really good point. Like, you know, you get a head coach who's proven to take somebody, you know, a quarterback like Josh Allen, like really a Ryan Tant.

Hill situation. That's why I think I leaned towards Arthur Smith, a guy who was, you know, taken, you know, a guy who, you know, has shown flat, had shown flash of town in Miami, but really didn't have that much success. But then you get Arthur Smith running to ship and all of a sudden, you know, Ryan Tannerhill is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL all of a sudden. So I think that's a really good option. You know, we've seen, you know, like guys like Luke Fickle's name thrown around. There aren't too many, you know, like when you look at the Eagle situation, especially because, you know, considering they're going to be, you know, rough. nearly $60 million over the cap. You have several guys like Fletcher Cox, Zach Ertz, Alshan Jeffrey, Darius Slay, Malik Jack, like a lot of other players and even Jason Kelsey all over 30 years old. So it's like an old roster. It's not a really favorable situation. And then like you guys just mentioned,

you have Carson Wentz. Like, what do you do with that? So I think it's not the best situation to step into, but if you get someone who can, you know, kind of rejuvenate Carson Wentz, get him back to that Super Bowl MVP-ish level that he's playing at a few seasons ago. you might have something there, but we'll see.

Yeah, the Eagles are like the old dudes standing outside trying to get in the club. Like, hold on a second, man. Like, this is a different crowd for you. That was just a few years ago. A few years ago was that Super Bowl, Doug Peterson, you have to go. That's essentially what was handed down. Now, you talked about just all these different cap hits when it comes to the Philadelphia Eagles fellas. But what about the cap hit that Ben Rothesberger presents next season for the Pittsburgh Steelers?

if I'm not mistaken, Kaelan, $41 million if he's still on the roster and plays next year. But that's here nor there because I really want, I'm going to let Ryan gather his thoughts and get things together because I know this is a sore spot, a tough subject for him. But the Pittsburgh Steelers, what happened? I mean, from the very onset of the game, we know that the Cleveland Browns, they jumped him in the back alley. It was like a street fight from the very beginning, man. Yeah, no, I think you nailed it on the head.

Like that the Browns jumped on him. Like, it came down to turnovers because, obviously, Obviously, the first touchdown of the game, you know, that that was literally on the first place. So you're in a hole if you're Pittsburgh. But then, you know, Ben Rothensberger throws those three picks in the first half. And, you know, those turnovers lead the short fields. Cleveland scored on a 46-yard drive and then a 15-yard drive. And three out of those first four scores, you're up 28-0 in the blink of an eye in the first quarter.

And Pittsburgh just didn't have enough juice to come back into the game, unlike that matchup against the Colts a few weeks ago, which it's really strange because, you know, with Mason Rudolph under or behind center like just a few weeks ago you know they they were within one possession of the Browns like going in a must win game for Cleveland but to get blown out at home the way that they did that was shocking that was really really shocking and I think the turnovers early on dug him a whole yeah Ryan have you have you seen the jamie fox stand-up comedy routine before I might need security he talks about he goes on the expedition when he's he's in africa shooting Muhammad Ali the Muhammad Ali document or a movie

rather, and he says that he's on the safari and he has a tour guide. And next thing you know, the tour guide gets eaten by a line. And he's on the camp court. He's like, Mary Sue Allen, here I am, in the belly of the beast. That lion jumped on me. And that's exactly what happened, the Cleveland Browns. They were that line. And the Pittsburgh Steelers, they were that tour guide.

And the Cleveland Browns, well, they jumped on them. There they are in the belly of the beast. They couldn't come back after that, man. No, it's just, this one is a combination of a few things. You know, one thing I'm going to talk about is, man, obviously I love my guy Juju, but Juju, he put a lot of pressure on the team, you know, and this is where people fail to realize, and people, I know, and this is the generation we're in, everybody chose each other, everybody talks shit to each other, but one thing that coach always said, and I kind of always

respected it was like, man, don't add fuel to the fire. You know, with the Browns, you know, they had a lot of guys out. They didn't have their coach. But the fact, you know, you're saying the Browns are the Browns and this and this. And, you know, people are going to add more fuel to the fire. You know, they were just suspected, hey, we just want to win our first playoff game. But now when you're saying, hey, you guys are the same trash-ass team that you guys been for the 27 years. If you said something like that, that's pride now.

That's pride. You know what I'm saying? And when you're saying something like that, then now guys, like, it's more about, it's less about football. it's more about whooping your ass now. You know what I'm saying? Because me as a man, man, here he goes,

here he goes. I'm just saying, it's more about, it's more about, man, like my pride. It's like, you're basically saying

you're better than me, I'm not good anymore. And when you're doing that type of stuff, it makes guys want to come out there and tear your head off. You know, and, you know,

and I think that's what the Browns did. You seen after the game, they're saying, we're the same old brows. They start doing Gigi, dance and everything because they started trolling them because at the day, you added pressure to, you added pressure to yourself, you had a pressure to the team, you know, and I think that was tough. And it doesn't help that, you know, we start off with those three turnovers.

Those three turnovers really put us in terrible position. They already have a really good office. I know they didn't have their guard, but everybody else on their office is damn good. You know, like, obviously they don't have Odell, but they're still good. They're one of the best running teams in the league. And Nick Chubb is probably one of the best runner. in the league, like I said before. And, you know, you just can't,

you can't pitch yourself in a hole like that. When you have a team that runs the ball really well, and then once you give them confidence, before the game, you gave them confidence saying that, you know, you're already better than them. Then you get them confidence to be up a 21 zip in the first quarter. Man, it's almost, you know, just lighting the fire even more.

You know, so it was really tough for me to watch. You know, I love my guys, man, but we really put ourselves in some bad situations before the game and once the game started. Kaelan, what about that punt? I mean, it just seemed so out of character, just very un-Mike Tomlin-esque. For him to punt, I don't know if that was part of his game plan and thinking that maybe something would materialize from that, but it just didn't seem like they were playing to win from the very beginning. I don't know if that early touchdown in the first five seconds of the game was a gut punch,

but it seemed like it threw Coach Tomlin off. Yeah, no. And honestly, that's kind of a Mike Toma thing. He does like tend to punt. But at the same time, like, the situation was fourth and one, their own 46, right near midfield, down by 12 with 15 minutes left in the game. You know, my favorite football cliche is control what you can control. So, you know, when a football coach decides, you know, hey, I'm going to punt the football instead of taking the game, you know, into your own hands. And especially considering that, that Pittsburgh had scored on four straight drives leading into that drive. It really confuses me when you see football guys who say, I'm going to control what I can control. Well, this is the thing in football. You can't control the game without the football. I don't care how great, you know, the Steelers defense had played to that point.

Your offense had been rolling. You need those 12 points and make it within, you know, one possession game with, you know, literally 15 minutes left on your season. Why give up your opportunity to control your own destiny? then, you know, the Browns went right back down in 80 yards and scored a touch on the very following drive. Like, it was really confusing and it's unfortunate that you see coaches, especially this past, we can make those decisions in big moments. But it just, it blows my mind because the football cliche, that's my favorite one. Like control what you can control. Do what you can do.

Scored the ball if you can. Yeah. And Ryan, to see that, you know, like Kalin brought up, you know, they had scored on their four previous possessions and for them to punt the ball away. and, you know, take some wind out of their sales. I mean, think about it. If they go for it on fourth and one and they get that and they score again and they cut into that 12-point deficit, then hold on a second. You got yourselves a whole new ball game.

Say that if they even go for two and then it's an even closer game. I mean, who knows? And to see that, it's almost like, you know, they like control what you can control. They had the ball in their hands and they couldn't get it done. To me, I think, you know, Coach Thomas seen that the game was getting close, he's always a defense a guy

he's always going to believe in his defense. And me personally, I think that he felt the defense can get a stop, give him a short field, get back down there. But I definitely feel in that situation,

coach should have went for it. You know, a lot of times I don't question coach's decision making, you know, because I just know him personally. But, you know, sometimes people make mistakes.

And I think that he really felt that the defense is going to go out there and get a three and out or force a short field and then get his offense back to ball. the Browns got it and drove it right down the field and scored the touchdown. You know, they kind of put the hammering and nailing the hammer right there.

But I think that was his thinking. I think he was thinking the defense can go down there. They were playing well, shut them out. Not shut them out, but get three and out a short, force of short field. And, you know, sometimes things don't go the way you want them. But like you said, Kieran, man, if you don't have a ball, it's kind of hard to control the thing. you know, the defense can play well, but, you know, it could be a turnover. It could be a penalty.

It could be anything. It could be anything that just force another first down and give them the ball a little bit longer. And I think that won't really hurt us. Yeah, it's almost like the Steelers. They were the master sense, and they said, okay, snatch the pebble. And Cleveland was like, oh, we weren't ready. I didn't say go yet. And like we said, that game was, it escalated so quickly.

The Pittsburgh Steelers didn't even really have a time together. their bearings. And when you look at Ben, he was sloppy with the ball, you know, the turnovers, the interceptions, you know, very un-Rothusberger-like. But we know that, you know, when it comes to monetary compensation, Ken, and we talked about at the top of the show, I mean, $41 million if he comes back next season and even $21 million, if I'm not mistaken, if he doesn't play next year. Yeah, that, that's tough. And, you know, Rathesberger for him, he's been, you know, since 2017, you know, he's been publicly, you know, kind of stating that he's not, he hasn't been sure if he's been able to stay healthy or whether he's still got it. He's been openly questioning that.

And, you know, when you look at the statistics, a lot of career lows and especially like yards per 10 and then averaged up the target this year. And he literally led the league, or at least was among the league leaders and, you know, time, uh, time between, you know, getting the ball out of his hands. So, you know, it's just been a complete, you know, transformation for Ben. And, you know, it really makes you question whether or not the COS can continue with them moving forward. He's 38 years old. And then at the same time, that roster,

they're losing their left tackle, Alejandroville and Nueva, the free agency. James Connor is a free agent. Bud Dupree is a free agent. Juju Smith is a free agent, but they might be able to replace him because they already have Claypool and DeAte Johnson. They've worked them out at the outside already,

kind of phasing him out. But it's going to look different potentially for Pittsburgh next year. And it really comes down to whether or not they decide to, you know, roll with Ben Rothesberger moving forward. Ryan, I'd ask you, It's Big Ben going to come back. But if I was banned, there would be no question if I was coming back. $41 million.

Of course, I'll be back. You'll see me day one. I'll be there with Bells on. I'm going to be even in the kitchen in La Trobe. I'm going to be cooking things up for the guys. Hey, who wants some cheese in that omelet? You want some ham, some peppers too? Come on through for $41 million.

I'm going to be there. So I don't think it's $41 million. So even if Ben retired is a $20 million cap hip, you said? I believe it's $21 million. if he retires, but if he comes back in plays that came and correct him if I'm wrong, it's a $41 million. Yes, it's a $41 million cap hit. He'll earn $19 million next season.

So he gets a $15 million roster bonus than the $4 million base salary. So, which is crazy to me, obviously. And this is what I think I spoke about this before on a podcast. I love Ben. But I think football guys should start getting paid like basketball guys, where it's more off of your performance and how good you are in the league, than your position, you know, because at a day, quarterback's, like, Ben making $41 million,

it has a $41 million cap, obviously that's crazy. But I feel like it's guys just as good on our team as Ben or around the league, and, you know, which is a whole different topic. But at the end of the day, if I was Ben, I had this talk with Michelle. I was like, man, I love being to death. And, you know, it may be time. You know, it may be time for retirement, maybe not, you know. But I said, Michelle, if I had this talk about, you know,

I had 21 million next year. What would you want me to do? She's like, you know, but we already have a lot of money. I'm like, Michelle, we have 200 million in the bank, and I have 21 million coming next year. What do you want me to do? She's like, I don't know. I might want you to play.

All right. All right. If my wife said that, I think Ben's thinking that too, I think the thing that's going to really talk to Ben, I mean, really going to, you know, I think Ben's going to really have a talk with, you know, Mr. Rooney, Kevin, Mike, and just really say, hey, man, if my body's feeling good and I think I can play another year, this is only my last one,

my, my, my, my, my, my, my, uh, my, uh, farewell tour. And, you know, but if not, you know, then, Ben gave us a great, great, you know, what, 17 seasons, man. He, he, he led us to two super, three Super Bowl, he won two of them. We've been to a lot of AFC championships. We've been to a lot of playoffs. We've never had a losing season. Man, that's a Hall of Fame quarterback right now. And I think people just got to really appreciate that. A funny thing that my friend had said, and I think you guys are laughing at this one, because I know this is the guy we're talking about in the next topic. He was like, would you trade two first rounders and Ben Ralph Borgberg for Joshan Watson?

Absolutely. Two first rounders? Absolutely. That's it. No, but see, first of all, I wouldn't trade Ben. In the city of Pittsburgh, we're not trading Ben. I know that I said I wouldn't do it. But my friend was like, I would do it.

I was like, obviously, you're not a Pittsburgh fan. But I just, I was like, man, I said, but I was like, you're not going to trade, you know, your franchise guy. And it's still going to be a $41 million cap hit if you go somewhere else. You know, you don't know what I'm saying? But you're not going to trade your franchise guy in his last year, in his last year, you know. But we do need to start thinking about a successor for Ben or if Ben does think about changing. If Deshaun comes to Pittsburgh, man, that can.

be nasty. I don't know if I put two first rounders, but I'd least throw one in the mix and Ben Rathesberger, then you get Houston back with a first round pick in the draft, if that's the way they want to go, because we know what happened with Bill O'Brien when he was trying to wheel and deal and pretty much just went out there and got himself fired. But, you know, at the end of the day, you're looking at Deshaun Watson and thinking, okay, you know, what does he value more? Does he value his relationship with his teammates more than he dislikes the brass and the management who pretty much set this team on the road to destruction at the beginning of the season? I mean, where does he stand right now? Because Ryan, by the looks of it, it seems to be

a slippery slope for Deshaun Watson. And who knows if he's ever going to find the success that he had once upon a time at Clemson with the Texans? Does he need to go somewhere else? Would the Pittsburgh Steelers or maybe another team, would that be an ideal landing spot for D. Watson? So me knowing the Steelers and being here for a while, I know they're not going to ever trade two first round pitch for one player. That's not, that's why they win. They don't do stupid stuff. That's why they win.

All the teams who do ridiculous stuff. Hey, I'll give you this for that. No, no, no. That's why you never won a Super Bowl. They're not that type of team to do that because they feel that it's so many players valuable. There's so many valuable players. You know, Deshaun is very valuable. You know what he is.

If he has a top five defense, he's probably Super Bowl ready right now. You know, but I don't think it's that slippery of slope for Deshaun. Because first of all, if you feel somebody is your franchise, like Mahomes, Deshaun, out of young quarterbacks, is Mahomes, then DeShan. But they're not as close, you know, but, you know, they're close, but, you know, you guys know what I'm saying. How close would you say Deshawn Watson and Josh Allen are, at least this season right now? Let me say, Deshawn is better than Josh Allen. Okay. Deshawn is better than Josh Allen.

Josh Allen had a better team, but DeShall is better than Josh Allen. I'm not good. And, and, but Josh Island is really good. But he's better than Josh Island. And, and he's always- Okay, I don't want to jump in and play devil's, but how about, okay, I'm going to do another one. Deshawn Watson or Kyler Murray?

Deshawn. Oh, Deshawn, yeah. Come on. But Kyle is still young, but I'm taking-in-D-Shan. I'm taking the shine. But the thing is, the reason, the reason I feel like out of young quarterbacks is Mahomes, obviously, then Deshaun.

And I feel if somebody's going to be your franchise, and you feel like this guy is Super Bowl ready if he has a defense. If he's Super Bowl ready, he has a defense, and you say, hey, hey, in our next head coach, we obviously know you're going to be here. And our next head coach and GM, we're going to talk to you about it and figure out how to make this all work together so we can win. At least talk to him. You know what I'm saying?

Like, if you're not going to talk to him, if you're just going to say something and then don't do it, man, now I don't trust you. If I don't trust you, like, it doesn't matter who you bring in. I don't trust them. You know, and now I don't want to be here. And Deshawn's like, man, I'm good enough. He has leverage. A lot of NFL players don't have leverage.

Deshawn has amazing leverage. One, they have no first round draft picks. Two, do they have a second round draft pick? I don't know if they have a second round draft pick. Their coverage are bare. So now, so basically he's like, y'all can't even bring in help to help me. If y'all do,

y'all have to go to free agency, and that's going to be a crazy number trying to get a guy. Secondly, secondly, man, I don't want to be here and we're not winning. I'm not about to waste my life in my time here, and you guys don't even, I'm not, I'm not

trying to rebuild. This is my, what, fifth year or fourth year? I'm not trying to rebuild. I'm trying to win now. Let's win now, yeah. And y'all are in Houston's in a rebuild stage right now. They have really no good piece. I'm not going to sell somebody not good. They have no good pieces.

You know what I'm saying? Like, they have no really good pieces. So basically, Deshawn's like, man, I'm trying to win now. And the best thing I'm going to do for y'all is at least get y'all some first round picks and get y'all somebody back that you can rebuild with. So I feel like it's not, and I don't feel like it's that slippery for him. And he can actually go somewhere that he, I don't think he has as much leverage as where he want to go. But I feel that he can help the team get at least something back good for him.

I feel like we can lift this segment. And then every time, Ryan, you said Deshawn put in James right there. And it's the same conversation with James Hard and the Houston Rockets. Things in Houston not going great right now. And with Deshaun and the way things are spinning out of control with that team, Kaelan, does he stay with the Texans? Is he the Houston Texans quarterback next season? Or do we see him elsewhere?

No, I think the only way that he could get traded. You know, everyone, you know, we were just talking about right now with the Steel. It's like, that's not going to happen. It'd be nice to see the Sean Watson leave Houston, but the only realistic trade partner that is available right now is the Miami Dolphins where you would trade maybe two-un and package a bunch of first-round picks, which the Texans literally traded to the Dolphins a few years ago,

which would be stupid. But yeah, that's the only real realistic trade scenario. So yeah, I think Watson's kind of stuck in this. And, you know, when he signed that deal earlier this year, it's like it was cool, because, man, this young black dude's getting his money. Young black quarterback, franchise dude, getting his money. Four years, $156 million.

But at the same time, he was signing himself, you know, to being stuck with Houston. And I think a lot of us kind of overlooked the fact that, hey, he's kind of stuck in this dysfunctional organization. Because you can make a laundry list, really, of a timeline of all these hiccups and weird, you know, decision-making from the front office there, whether it's been Cal McNair, you know, comparing the players to inmates or, you know, Bill O'Brien having too much power and trading away first-round picks, trading away the Andre Hopkins and, you know, them not resigning clowny. Did he get paid before Hopkins left or after? He got paid after.

Yeah. And so that's the thing. There's just been too many missteps for me to really appreciate, you know, Houston being able to retain the show. It was a great decision, but there's just too much happening. outside of Deshawn Watson to where, you know, it, you know, I don't know how, you know, what the potential of his career is while he's there. He'll be out by the time he's 29, but I don't know how we get out.

Would you trade, if you're Jacksonville, would you trade your first round for Deshaun? Oh, absolutely. I'd trade two, three first round picks from the Sean, four or five. That's the thing. He's a quarter-bent. Whoa, whoa. So, see, four, five first round picks. Okay.

Three-four? Cailon Jones, the next general manager of the New York Jets. I mean, you can't do things like that because then it puts you in such a rut moving forward. Who is your favorite team? Who is your favorite team? They must trade a lot.

Oh, no. See, now you're setting me up. So I grew up a Raiders fan. Now you're going to be like... It's making sense. It's making sense. They make a lot of crazy decisions because good teams don't just trade

five first round picks for one. Maybe not five. I'm being hyperbolic. Three? Three, absolutely. Four, maybe. Kaylin's that dude who's going to the combine and saying, hey, what did he run in the 40, a 4 or 2?

He doesn't even play football. Let's take him anyway. That's a discussion for another day. Y'all have me ran about John Gruden and Mike Mayalkland. Darius, Hayward Bay, we're going to go back to that one. Hey, guys, who are just playing fast. I love these. He can run.

We know he can run. We know he can run. That 40 time made him go a few ticks higher than as we know. All right, guys, we know that Deshawn Watson and the Houston Texans and not a playoff team, especially not this weekend in the day. divisional round, but there are some pretty intriguing games. And even though that some of the ratings for Super Wild Card weekend were down, maybe it was just a little oversaturation, maybe it was the fact that the really,

the only game that you wanted to see was that Pittsburgh Cleveland game because they were bumping heads and those were two teams that had such a story past and checkered history. But looking at Saturday and Sunday, I didn't mean to rehash that, Ryan. I see you shaking your head at me, man. I wasn't trying to do that. I was trying to get us to this weekend. I'm just reading something over here. Okay, okay. I'm just trying to get us to Saturday because that's Rams and Packers and Ravens and Bills.

And if, you know, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to make my picks on these first two games first. I'm going to let you guys follow suit. But, I mean, Green Bay, I mean, they're the business end of a hammer right about now. I mean, I have them as the team that will represent the NFC versus the Kansas City Chiefs in the Super Bowl. So I'm going to go Packers over the Rams. And, you know, I'm going to have to go with a little bit more of the experience with Lamar Jackson. and just his ability just to make things happen late in the game with his legs. I'm going Ravens. I'm going Packers. Those are my Saturday picks.

Ryan, who you going with, man? I'm going to go with Packers because you just never know the weather in Green Bay. And they're coming from L.A. Obviously, they play, you know, in the cold and stuff like that. But I just think in these moments when Aaron Rogers has home field advantage, he's just a whole different animal. So I think that they got one of the best receivers. in the NFL right now on their team with Aaron Rodgers,

probably the MVP candidate, me, MVP frontrunner. I think they're going to seal the deal and get that one. The Ravens, this one, this was a tough one for me, man. It's tough, yeah. Because with the bills, man, it's like you watch them play football, and you're like, man, like, they're a really good team, but then you look at the pieces, you're like, how are they a good team? You know what I'm saying?

But they are a good team. You know, like Cole Beasley was what, second team all pro? Like, that's like Cole Beasley. Like, you know, so it's just like you never. Great name. Yeah, Beasley, you're right. No, but it's just, you know, he's a great player. You know, and they got the first team all pro with Stefan Digg, you know,

they're really, they're really cooking with gas. But right now the Ravens are on fire, you know, so if they can stop Lamar, I think the bills can get them. I think the bill's going to slip out and get this W, though. I think they're going to slip out and get this W. Wow. Okay. I'm thinking that Lamar Jackson, the only thing that you can really stop him with is

a Kansas City offense because Lamar Jackson, he's going to get his. This we know, but Kansas City, we know how they score immediately, if not soon. Kalin, who you got? You got Rams versus the Packers and Ravens at the Bills. You got to pick two winners on Saturday, man. Yeah, no. I think the Packers' Rams game is going to be closer than people are expecting it to because the Rams defense is absurd

and Brandon State was probably going to be a head coach. But, you know, I still got the Packers. I think that will fluer and what, you know, the Packers' offense has done this season. It's going to be a little bit too much. And then, you know, like you guys have been saying, like the Ravens Buffalo game, I think I'm barely leaning Buffalo,

but that's only because of what they were able to do in terms of slowing down, you know, the Colts run game. I don't know if they'll be able to slow down Lamar Jackson consistently. I think it could end up being a shootout, but like Ryan was talking, about. When you look at the Bill's roster, they got five deep at receiver, like Diggs, Gabriel Davis, Cole Beasley, Josh Brown, like that, that's lethal. I think Josh Allen is, you know, rounding in the form. So I'm going to take Buffalo. Okay. All right. Let's move on to Sunday,

Browns and Chiefs, Bucks at Saints. I'm going Chiefs. Obviously, they're going to win the Super Bowl. I picked them at the beginning of the season. And then, you know, as crazy as it sounds, I'm going Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the Mercedes-Benz Superdome because it's tough as it is, is to beat a team three times in one season. I think if you leaned on the numbers, Ryan, you see that that doesn't usually happen. And Tom Brady, oh, by the way, as a sidebar, he's never lost to a team three times

in his entire career. So I don't think it's going to happen this weekend. You never lost a team three times in his entire career. In one season. Oh, I'm about to say, what? Yeah. I'm like, man, what kind of record does he have?

All right, no, but I'm going to go on with the cheese for the whole day. And like Chase Claypool said, no matter what, they're going to get clapped. So even though Chase's like, you lost, bro, we got to just eat it. We lost. It is what it is. You know, don't worry about the boss. Whoever would have won that one would have probably gone on and took one on the chin versus Kansas City anyhow.

But I'll let you go. There still us will to play the bills, but it's cool. No, but I really, I think the chief's going to get on one. I think it's just too much offense. and not enough grounds defense. Is there a war going to be able to play? Yeah. He just came off the, yeah.

All right, cool. Because I was like, if he doesn't play, it's definitely going to be too much offense. With the Tampa Bay, I just don't see, I don't see Tom Brady losing three times in the road to the team, like you said. I really want to see the Saints advance, man. I really want to see them in the Super Bowl. And I think this is Drew Breaz's last year.

But I think it's just, I think they got too much firepower. And the, in the, Tampa Bay is really, stuff out at the right time. So I think Tampa Bay is going to advance to the NEOC championship. Yeah, it's almost like there were all those people out there who were saying, oh, Tom Brady and when there were some hiccups going on down there in Tampa, you know, we just didn't really know 100%, you know, what was next for that team?

And can Tom Brady and Bruce Aaron's can they put things together? But lo and behold, they've rounded into form and then things have finally taken shape. And that's the team that nobody really wants to see. I mean, you know that the Saints, Caitlin, they have plenty of confidence right now, but you're facing off against Tom Brady. I mean, that man has an entire room just for his Super Bowl hardware. Yeah, no, and I looked it up, Cole.

Like, in Tom Brady's career, he's only lost more than three times to the Broncos, the Chiefs five times, the Dolphins 12 times, the Jets seven times. Everyone else, he's only lost to three times or less. that's absurd. Anyway. Dolphins 12 times.

That's crazy. Yeah, I lost it. I mean, introdivit, he beat them 23 times. That's why. It's crazy. But yeah,

no, that being said, like, I'm taking the Buccaneers in that one. Like you mentioned, like the Bucks offense has been really rolling

what Brady's been able to do over the past few weeks in particular is impressive. And, you know, I don't know if the Saints' offense has been, you know,

hidden as high of a gear. As for the Chiefs and Browns game, I do think there's a pathway for the Browns to win because the Chief's defense is not that or their run defense hasn't been that great this year. Nick Chubb is a monster. And Mahomes has, you know, he led the league in turnover worthy plays.

And it turned a ball over a lot. But he's prone to making mistakes. I can see the Browns like pulling off the upset, but I'm still going to take the Chiefs. Like if they win this one, then, you know, no one's going to be surprised. So did you just say that he, he makes almost turnovers, but they're not?

Yeah. Like a lot of times, like when, a quarterback throws the ball, the defensive back, and it bounces off his chest, like it should have been picked off, stuff like that. I don't think that counts as a turnover, so I think the shoes is going to be. It doesn't.

It doesn't. I'm saying, I'm saying, Ryan, if a quarterback goes the ball to you, and you don't catch it, it's like, okay, he's a defensive player, like that happens. But if he catches the ball, the game changes. No, you're right.

But for some reason, a lot of times, they don't catch it. Yeah, I don't know what it is either. He's me. He's my homes. But he's too hard. Yeah, yeah, it's that spin rate. We know that Patrick Mahomom.

has that baseball background. Maybe he's been hanging out with Trevor Bauer in the off season, and they've been working on that spin rate. You know, my spin rate wasn't good enough, Ryan. You have to touch a sore subject. It wasn't good enough. That's why I'm here talking out here with you guys. So either way, you know, it's been a fun run, as always.

We have our picks. They're in for the divisional round. Hopefully four games this weekend will be enough to satisfy that appetite. And we're going to come back to you, as always. We'll rehash everything next week. And fellas, like I said, it was a good run today. And that's going to put a wrap on this Wednesday edition of the Ringer NFL show with Ryan and Kalin and myself. And as always, we're part of the Ringer podcast network.

And you can follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Also, jump over on Twitter and follow us at the Ringer NFL. Now, next on the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show, it's Warren Sharp and Joe Howes, divisional round preview and betting insights hoping to put some greenbacks in your pockets. And this weekend, make a note because immediately after the final division game, Saturday and Sunday, the Ringer NFL show, well, they're going to be going live. So make sure you subscribe to the ringer's YouTube channel.

That's YouTube.com slash the ringer and following the ringer on Twitter. Once again, that's at the ringer NFL. Now, Saturday, the show is going to feature Kevin Clark and Ryan Rosillo. And then Kevin, he's back at it again on Sunday with Nora Prince Iati. And like I said, we're going to come back to you. We'll be in our regular time slot next Tuesday. We're going to rehash all the divisional round. And we're going to look ahead, of course, the championship Sunday.

The best day in all. of professional sports. So until then, for Ryan and Kalin, I'm Cole. We'll see you next Tuesday.