The Ringer NFL Show - The Fallout to Come From the Aaron Donald Situation | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 266)

Episode Date: May 28, 2018

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Danny Kelly discuss the ramifications that will come from Aaron Donald's contract dispute (05:00), how it will affect the Los Angeles Rams this season (14:15), and the ripples it will cause around the rest of the NFL (26:00). Hosted by: Robert Mays and Danny Kelly Produced by: Jim Cunningham Brought to you by: The Ringer Podcast Network Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, Robert Mays here. On today's Ringer NFL show, we're diving deep on one topic. That's Aaron Donald's contract, standoff with the Rams. We'll chat about all the implications that Staring Contest has for both the Rams and the League at large. As always, we're brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where there are a ton of great shows for you right now. Earlier this week, we kicked off a 20-episode season of the Rwatchables,

starting with what is, in my opinion, the movie of the decade, the social network. Bill Simmons, Sean Fennacy, and Chris Ryan, broke down every aspect of David Fincher's towering 2010 film. And to hear that conversation, please subscribe to the rewatchables feed and check back for new episodes each week. Also, go to the ringer.com to check out a ton of awesome stuff from this week. Both series in the NBA conference finals are starting to boil over, and we have you covered. Danny Chow wrote about Darrell Mori's dark, twisted plan to overthrow the Warriors,

and how it may be coming to fruition and may have lost the Rockets Chris Paul in the process. Over in the east, Mark Titus wrote about LeBron James and his legendary standing in the state of Ohio. Please go check out all of that and more at the ringer.com. With that, let's get to the show. The Ringar NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays and joining me today in place of the honeymoon in Kevin Clark. It's the one and only Danny Kelly.

DK., what's up, bud? Oh, not much, man. I'm just kind of enjoying the offseason so far. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing great. It's Memorial Day weekend. Cubs game today that I'm going to. I'm just very pleased with everything that's going on.

You got a lot of music in your future right now? Yeah, I mean, I've got a couple of gas on anthem shows next week, festivals. It's getting to be a very nice time of year. I'll be in New York City next week, and I'm looking forward to that. All right, so today we were going to just talk about the Aaron Donald situation, because I feel like it has a lot of blinters that affect other parts of the league. It's interesting conversation. It's like, all right, one topic.

It's the middle of May. There's not much else going on. free rain, you know, we have the runway to get where we want to go. And then, of course, the NFL decides to totally screw that up by making problems where there don't need to be any. And of course, I'm talking about the brand new national anthem policy that came down earlier this week from the owner's meetings. I've talked about this in other places already.

We haven't talked about on the podcast, but we certainly have to. What is there to say? I think Mina put it best, I mean it kind of. on Twitter when she said there's not a rake that the NFL won't step on. And that is just so incredibly true. By the end of last season, you know, we have a handful of players still kneeling for the anthem. And it feels like this issue is kind of quieting down a little bit because there's been movement. There has been progress.

I mean, there's that coalition of players that's, you know, in talks with the league, really trying to institute, you know, societal kind of systemic change in, and, a lot of different ways in that group led by John Baldwin and Malcolm Jenkins and you guys really making headway into the places they want to go in their communities. And then the league decides, well, you know what? Let's stoke the fire again. Yeah, let's throw gas on it. Yeah, yeah. Let's just squeeze a little lighter fluid on here and see how high we can get this thing. So now you have an issue in a conversation that was probably, you know, going to be quieter, quieting down and going away to a certain degree.

And now it once again will be the defining topic of the couple weeks leading up to the season because we have no idea what's going to end up happening. Is there any organization that's worse at PR than the NFL? I don't think so. Again, it's because it's not about putting out fires. It's about creating ones that don't exist. Right. It's unbelievable.

I mean, if they were just bad at crisis management, that would be one thing. But they create their own issues seemingly out of nothing. And it's just a really frustrating league to watch and to cover and everything else because every time you just want to say, it seems like we're moving in a somewhat decent direction. You know, these guys are really been empowered in the protests and everything else and the message they tried to send to start to get some penetration. And then, of course, the league just tries to undo it all in a single movement for who, I have no idea.

And it just seems like this is a choice made for an audience of one. And the idea that they would make it in order to prevent the president from weaponized, just the president and the midterm elections from weaponizing this. And then the day after the day it happens, Mike Pence goes on the internet and weaponizes it. It's just everything about it is baffling and frustrating. And I don't know. I mean, at this point, Danny, I just think I'm going to watch how players respond to this in terms of how creative do these protests get now. How many more people are going to take action, you know, try to send. a message that wouldn't have otherwise because this is just something that has irked them.

Yeah. I mean, like they talked about it. I think Goodell talked about it as a compromise, which is laughable because it was the opposite of that. It was, you know, like an edict from the league. And by the way, it was like they explained it as a unilateral or unanimous, sorry, vote. When in reality, according to Seth Wickersham, you know, it was just like they showed hands. And they basically went with, okay, that's enough. Like that, that counts.

And then the NFL basically. There's more thought. There has been more thought put into how, like, a third grade classroom names its hamster. Oh, my God. Seriously, there is a more democratic process than there was with this. It's unbelievable. But, I mean, your point, you know, that you're going to be paying attention to this. And it comes back to the forefront.

Like, actually, Adam Schefter tweeted it. And it was, I thought it was just really, like, well stated. It's like Deshaun Watson and Carson Wentz try to return from knee injuries, Andrew Luck from shoulder injuries. Kurt Cousins, debutses for the Vikings, John Gruden returns to Oakland, yet the biggest week one storyline is shaping up to be who stands for the anthem

and who stays in the locker room. It's exactly right. I mean, it just didn't have to be this way. Yeah. And again, I'm not of the, this should be a political free zone. We shouldn't, we should use football as a distraction, all that stuff.

I think that's garbage. But I do think that there was an issue here and there was just sort of a landmine that the league did not have to step on and they went out of their way to do it. Yeah. And they want this to go away. That is their goal.

and there was there was you know it looked like there was actually progress towards an actual compromise starting to happen like you said with the coalition and some of the things that you know like Doug baldwin and that group of players have done but but now it just creates this big huge divide between the league and the players union and the coalition and you know it could spark further protests and things like that and so um you know it's just i think it's exactly the opposite of what the league ultimately wants so yeah it's just Okay, good job, guys. All right, let's move on because I'll start to lose my mind if we don't.

Let's get into this Aaron Donald situation. I mean, this has been an ongoing conversation just because some things have been in the news. Donald is going to skip OTAs again, which you can't blame him, considering he did it last year. And he still hasn't got a new contract. And then Marcus Peters came out earlier this week because he was asked about it. And he said it simply did pay the man. And I feel like in a lot of ways, that's been the sentiment that's been widespread. I wrote about it this week.

I'm on that fence as just a knee-jerk reaction. That's my first thought about this. It's like, well, pay the guy. He's the best player in the league. Yeah. But let's take a step back and kind of consider all sides of this. And maybe the reasons behind some of the Rams hesitance. And let's start with Aaron Donald's side, which is very easy to understand.

He's the rating defensive player of the year. Right. He is set to make less than $7 million this year on his fifth year option. That is half of what Indama Kinsu will make at the same position. for the same team in 2018. El Gogletree, who is not on the Rams anymore, is making $6.4 million to not play for the Rams.

He's on the Giants, for those that were curious. Oh, man. I would say it's arguable that outside of the, I don't know, maybe the rookie quarterback contracts that are around, you know, Wence, and they're starting to go by the wayside. There aren't that many guys on rookie quarterback contracts that you feel are top-level quarterbacks.

I mean, they're guys that can play. But I think you can argue that Wence is, and maybe a couple others have the most valuable contracts in the entire league. But I would say of non-quarterbacks, you know, Donald's $7 million is by far the most valuable contract in the entire league. I mean, he's the best player in the NFL, arguably, at his position compared to his peers. And you think about the guys at the top of the defender market, Yvonne Millers, are making 19 as an average annual value. That contract was handed out two years ago. So if Donald was going to get a record or market setting contract for defensive players,

which I believe he's worth it even as a defensive tackle. That's $15 million or so more than he's going to be making right now. I mean, that's a massive jump. I mean, he's one of the, that contract is a hugely valuable piece for the Rams. So you can understand why Aaron Donald is a little peeved right now. I mean, if you look at just, if you, taking away all the other factors like the fact that he is one of the best players and, you know, at his position, one of the best defenders in the NFL, if not the best defender in the NFL. And then all the factors on what the, what the Rams are doing with the Cal, I think the, the, the, the, The decision to sign Sue to a $14 million deal, I mean, that, that is just seems like a slap,

almost like a slap in the face to Donald. I mean, like, they're really like playing hardball. Oh, we'll get to that later. So like from- We'll get to the problems of this offseason and how it's affecting Aaron Donald here in a little bit. From his, from, from Donald's point of view, I think that would be the most frustrating thing, you know, that they brought in another guy and paid him, you know, a ton of money. And he's still, you know, trying to fight for his scraps or whatever.

So yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, there's, I don't think there's, like you said, there's no quarterback or there's no non-quarterback who I think, you know, deserves his, you know, his reasoning for like a holdout or whatever more than, or more than Donald. And so, you know, it's just really, really easy to see his point of view. If you're Aaron Donald's agents and you're coming to the table with the Rams, which they have been doing, I'm sure, obviously, contracts often exist

on precedent. It's about positional value. It's about the guys at that position, everything else. If we go by that, this dialogue and this debate gets sticky very quickly. Because you have Fletcher Cox making $17 million a year. He set the market for defensive tackles. Got $63.3 million in guarantees.

Obviously, that's where the Rams probably would like to start. But if you're Donald, I'm assuming that your representatives are going to go a little bit further of that and say, Well, that's fine, but we're not going to use the defensive tackle market as any sort of barometer here. That's not going to be the context of this conversation.

We're going to look at what defenders get paid because we have the most impactful defensive player in the NFL independent of the position he plays. And that goes beyond awards, anything like that. If you look at past fresh statistics, everything else, I mean, 91 pressures last year, which were the most in the league at any single position. He transcends the positional value in the terms. traditional limits of interior defensive value. So if you're in that conversation now,

he's probably worth something in the $21 million range that's going to reset the market for all players on that side of the ball. In your opinion, do you think that Aaron Donald in a vacuum is worth that amount of money? Yes, I do. I think...

I tend to as well. And, you know, this is part of a much larger discussion on how to, you know, divide your cap up and how, like, what the best way of going about building a roster is, but I think he's one of very, very few players in the NFL that has a big enough impact play to play to make it worthwhile. Plus, he's always, you know, he's been healthy. You know, he's been, he's shown that he can stay on the field too, which is another part

of this whole thing. And so, I don't know. I mean, like, it's hard for me to think of a more disruptive player in the NFL. Like, football is a team sport ultimately. And, you know, it's just really, really hard for one guy to dominate. And a game, really, right? Like from the defensive side of the field, it's just hard because you can do so many things as an offense to go away from a certain star player. You know, like a shutdown corner, you can just throw to your other two receivers or whatever.

But, I mean, with a guy like with Donald, he just wrecks every play because he's so good at penetration. He wrecks run plays. He wrecks passing plays. It changes the way you have to play offense. I mean, this is like coming from years of being traumatized, you know, as a Seahawks fan, going up against Donald for years. he ruins the Seahawks, like, offensive game plan. So looking at the impact he has, I think he is, like, one of very, very few players, and we'll get to that. But the guys that really do deserve that, like, quote, quarterback money.

All right. Before we get to that and just kind of what we might think the team's rationale is in this whole ordeal, let's take a quick break. Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I wanted to tell you about the revamped Ringer NBA show podcast. We are Monday through Friday on Mondays. John Gonzalez's host Heat Check Bounce around

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You get this every day all the way through the playoffs, the draft, and even free agency. Five days a week. The Ringer NBA show, subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, Danny. So let's talk about the overall cap distribution and the thought and the reticence a team would have about giving a player that much money,

which I assume is the basis of the ram side of this entire conversation. So there is danger in paying a superstar that amount of money. When I wrote about Donald this week, I looked up some of the numbers. So since the 2011 CBA was signed, only four non-quarterbacks on teams to make the conference championship game have made at least 10% of the cap. You have guys on there like Patrick Peterson and Domicons, or excuse me, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones.

There are superstars in that list, but there are only four guys. the other two are Patrick Willis in 2012 with the 49ers. And the very random one is Charles Johnson. That's surprising. Which is hilarious. And he is the highest. He made almost 14% of the cap the year that the Panthers went to the Super Bowl. And that's almost more impressive than anything.

To have a MVP on a $13 million contract is a huge part of that. Oh, yeah. The smallest value among that group, which I also thought was interesting. The Colts, when they went to the AFC championship game, Vante Davis made five point. 0.05% of the cap. He was their highest paid non-quarterback. Wow. If you need to know anything about how good Andrew luck was that season when he threw 40 touchdowns,

it's that. The cults had no good players and they went to the AFC championship game because of how good luck was that year. It's incredible. So, look, thinking about those numbers, obviously four of 20. So the logical conclusion there is that teams that get that far don't allocate that

much cap space to individual players that are not quarterbacks. And the quarterback money is kind of divided. I mean, there are some teams on that list that had quarterbacks on second contracts. You know, you have your Matt Ryan's. Cam Newton was cheap, but it was still 13 million. Tom Brady's been on there. We all know about the value of his contract. A couple guys this year were your portals, Carson Wentz, still on their rookie deals.

So that's kind of scattered in an interesting way. Obviously, the Russell Wilson conversation has been had a hundred times. So there's no real through line there, even though I think, right, now the consensus is that it's most healthy to have a quarterback on a rookie contract and try to maximize that window. Right. But over this stretch that hasn't necessarily borne out to be true. So if we're thinking about it this way, who else, and then you say you would pay Donald

that much because of the impact that he has, who else would you put on that list? It's probably a short list. Yeah. I mean, I thought about it for about like an hour this morning and literally the only one I could come up with was a healthy JJ Watt. That's it, huh? I think you could, you could make an argument for like a Joey Bosa or

a Von Miller, you know, guys that can affect the play, like the league's elite pass rushers, but maybe like a Khalil Mack or something like that, but I mean, even still, I hesitate on that.

No, I don't think so. The guy that I thought of was D'Andre Hopkins, but I mean, like, Hopkins has been dominant, you know, for years. and even with like bad quarterbacks and stuff,

it just hasn't moved the needle enough, you know, for the Texans. And so I even hesitate there. Like, what would your list involve? I think that the defensive players you named Healthy JJ Watt 100% would be on there. And just no doubt about it. I feel like he's the closest equivalent to Donald as there is. 100%. I think that Mack is in that conversation.

I think that Von Miller's in that conversation. I could see it going either way. The two guys I would say that I would put on there, are Julio Jones and Antonio Brown. I think they're that good. Antonio Brown for sure is another one. I think they're that good. Those are the only two offensive non-quarterbacks that I would put on there.

I know offensive linemen is that valuable to me, but I do think that what Julio and Antonio, which is hard for me to say. Part of me wants to say that a healthy Joe Thomas, RIP, healthy Tyron Smith, perhaps, but I would not go that far. I do think that in a vacuum,

Julio and Antonio Brown may be that valuable. But I could see you guys going either way. The list is very, very short. And the precedent is very bad. And that's why you can understand the Rams hesitation here. Because there are other ways they can do this. It's not necessarily a we have to pay him or he walks because, as we know, there are ways to keep players on your team without giving them contract extensions.

You were saying the franchise tag for defensive tackle is actually pretty reasonable, right? So that's the thing with Donald. And that's why I feel like the Rams have so much ammunition in this negotiation. The franchise tag for defensive tackles this year was $13.9 million. You pay Aaron Donald $13.9 million a hundred times out of a hundred. Right, exactly. It's so rare because think about the types of players that often get franchised, right? Tramaine Johnson is a perfect example.

Same team. A guy gets franchised twice. Is Jermaine Johnson one of the five best corners in the league? No. You're overpaying to franchise him. Guys like Jarvis Landry, who obviously didn't get the franchise tag, but was tagged initially. Is Jarvis Landry one of the five best receivers in the league? No.

Is Zigianza one of the five best pass rushers in the league? No. Oftentimes this tag is misused and it really is an overpay. But for a guy like Donald, he transcends his position so just crazily that paying him the franchise tag makes him drastically underpaid if you give him the defensive tackle tag. And we can go beyond that. If you tagged him three times based on the projected inflation of the cap over the next three years, it's probably the case that it would come out to about three years, 60 million if you did it as a defensive tackle. And again, if he's a 21 or 22 million an annual value with about $75 million guaranteed, like his contract would probably be on the open market for the best defensive player,

that's less money if you franchise him for three years. You're still saving some money. It's crazy. And that's the thing. I feel like that's what ports the Rams in such an interesting spot is that the Rams have not been afraid to use the tag. They've used it twice on Germain Johnson. They use it on Lamarcus Joyner this year. So there are so many things in play here.

as to why they probably are reticent to do this. The idea that using the tag for like one year in order to buy yourself some time and save and give yourself a chance to resign this guy to a long-term deal, like that's one thing, but tagging someone two or three times is, I mean, we've looked at, we've seen that a couple of times recently,

like Tremaine Johnson left after getting tagged twice and Kirk Cousins left after getting tagged, would he get tagged twice or three times? I can't remember, but twice, yeah. Um, twice. Yeah. And so that typically when teams are doing that, it's like, here, we want to just keep you for another year not, not for a longer term thing down the road. Like this is just like basically we're overpaying with the interest of it gives us flexibility down the road. And so the way that teams have been using that multiple tag, uh, you know, strategy is, is different than what it would be in this case because I think the idea is that you'd want Donald here for for the long term. Absolutely. And that's why I think that there's danger in. And doing this. But again, like you just said, when teams have done it in the past, Cousins is another very good example. You're overpaying for this guy in the moment. But with Donald, you wouldn't be overpaying for him if you tagged him for it as a tackle. That's what complicates. He really is

unique. It's crazy. There's never been a moment in my mind where a team has used the tag to derive value. They've only used it to derive flexibility, trying to kick the can down the road and give themselves some more time. That's interesting. Let's discuss some of the previous cases in the precedent for these positional arguments that have affected franchise tag value over the years. The two cases that come to mind in my mind are Jimmy Graham in New Orleans when they tagged him and Terrell sucks when they tagged him in Baltimore. So in Graham's situation, his argument was, I am not a tight end, you can't tag me like one.

So the original tender that they gave him was $7.053 million as a tight end. the receiver tender would have been 12.13. It's huge difference. You know, it's not, that's not, yeah, the defensive tackle, the defensive end is not that big. But eventually, even though he lined up in the slot or wide on 67% of his snaps, the league ruled that he was a tight end, which I'd love to hear any sort of rationale behind that.

Yeah, but how? One that went the other way was Terrell Suggs. So Suggs was originally tendered as an outside linebacker, which was much lower in those days. And he said, I'm a defensive end. I mean, he's a pass rusher. He should be compensated as such. And I believe they split the difference in that case.

So now you go to Donald. The problem here is that Donald doesn't have much recourse. Because his argument is not about alignment or any sort of X's and O stuff. It's about impact. And, you know, some people in some, like, spots list him as a defensive end in Wade Phillips's scheme because Wade Phillips owns a 3-4, which doesn't exist anymore. And he's a defensive end. tackle. He's listed as a defensive tackle on their website. So Aaron Donald's going to go and be like,

I am a defensive end in terms of value. And they're going to be like, yeah, I don't care. So he has an uphill fight there. So that's what makes it such a rare case is that the Rams really could franchise him three times in a row and still save money. They could pay him 120% of the tag in year two and 140% of the year two salary and still come in at less than they would probably have to pay him if he was on the open market. That's how good Aaron Donald is and how different he is in the players at his position. It's nuts.

It's like almost like reminds me of the, and this is probably a terrible comparison, but it almost reminds me of the advantage of the Patriots have had for years but paying Brady like what, 14 against the cap or something like that. It's like it allows you to just fill out your roster everywhere else. But of course Brady does that sort of, he does that willingly,

whereas this would be almost like holding Donald hostage for a couple years. I know he's still making a lot of money. but you know you're you're limiting what he's able to do on the open market and stuff like that so definitely could create bad blood and i know that that's a huge factor and in the rams decision making too is like how is this going to affect you know his psyche and his his want to and all that because obviously he he missed a game last year from holding out he didn't i think he ended his hold out before actually missing the game but they had already ruled him out right he was he was right

before we go on and he ended his holdout. Right. So, I mean, this is, that was last year. I mean, this is now we're even closer to the end of his contract. And so, you know, it's, it's really easy to see him doing that holdout again. And the thing about his contract now, and it's similar to what we just discussed, is that there's such a huge gap between what he's worth and what he's currently getting paid, that it's almost, it's not quite this much, but it's almost like a quarterback on a rookie deal.

Like, that's how much value there is to it. So, yeah, they jump, between his current contract and the extension would make him so much less valuable because of the huge gap in pay. So that's why you can understand why the Rams want to milk this as long as they can. And especially this year, they've had to milk it because they're up against the cap because they've spent money like a drunken king. What the Rams have done, and let's get into this and just talk about kind of how this fits

into the Rams larger plants, right? Right. So obviously, the Rams have been trade and sign happy in the last couple months here, and even over the last year. When you consider how many huge moves they've made and consequential moves they've made since the beginning of the 2017 off season, they really remade the upper echelon of their roster. So the Rams, eight highest paid players, five were required after the start of the 2017 offseason. One of those guys that they had before that is Lamarcus Joyner, who's on the first year. the franchise tag. So it's not like he's thrilled with what's going on.

They also have four guys with looming contract situations. Marcus Peters is going to be in this exact scenario next year, which I guarantee you he's been looking at. That's why he said what he did this week. Marcus Peters is looking at this and saying, I know my time is coming. Yeah. Brandon Cooks is in a scenario that Aaron Donald is in.

Well, Marcus Joyner, playing on the franchise tag will need to be resigned. And Domican Sue on a one-year contract. So the Rams have 17 or 72 million in cap room for next year according to over the cab, but that could definitely go away in a hurry when you consider some of the moves they may have to make. So it's one of those things where they've tried to maximize their window, obviously, but at the same time, they've really complicated so many elements of this. They're walking the tightrope this year, honestly.

They are. And I get it. I actually, I think their strategy is sound and the fact that like we have a chance this year to win the Super Bowl. I do think that they're a potential Super Bowl contender. I'm not going to say that they're the favorite or anything like that, but I think they have enough talent on that team to be a contender in the NFC. So if anything, they're just kind of like, let's just do this balancing act for a year.

And then from after what happens this year, we'll be able to figure out exactly like what direction we want to go in, what guys we want to keep, how we're going to allocate all this extra cast base that we have, like what guys are worth keeping and turning into like the core nucleus, of our team because right now like you said the majority of the top paid guys on the team are new players so like you bringing in all these new guys you don't necessarily know a ton about them and and how they ultimately fit and like they're worth long term and things like that and so i think this is a year not only that they're going to contend but they can evaluate all these like new

additions to like how they fit in what they want to do and how they fit culturally and things like that so it's almost like this experimental year and where they actually do have a chance to to be really I think on a football level and just kind of on a X paper, like just on paper. And when you're talking about this in a more detached, emotionless way, I think it's all awesome because that's exactly right. They've given themselves some flexibility with the amount of money they have to say, who do we want to keep? Who do we want to lose?

And with 72 million, it's a lot of money. I mean, you could sign Donald with that and then you could, you know, say you use the franchise tag on cooks, you know, say you use it on Sue. say you give cooks a long-term deal. You know, Peters, you can be the year after. They have flexibility. They can really go a lot of different directions, and that's a good thing.

My thought about this whole ordeal, though, is that in the last year, they traded away a team captain who was given a contract extension in October. Right. And they traded him in March or February, whenever they traded Ogletree. It wasn't long after they gave him a lot of money.

People liked him in the locker room. Again, going back to that five of their eight, highest paid players. This is a dangerous way to build your locker room and to build your roster. Because even if you are in a calculated way, maximizing the window

given to you by Jared Goss's contract, there are consequences in doing it this way and in going out and kind of living the mercenary lifestyle while Aaron Donald sits there waiting for while Aaron Donald sits there waiting for a contract extension. Yeah. And I don't

there is a chance. I mean, they put video online of him yesterday just looking like a kid in the candy store being back at practice McVeigh. There is a chance that that coaching staff is so good and they are so deft in handling personalities everything else and they're just

so good schematically that it doesn't matter that this team ends up being a juggernaut. They win the Super Bowl and people are like well who gives a shit about Aaron Donald's contract we'll figure it out later we won the Super Bowl. And I think that that is a fair point but I also think that a lot of teams have had a lot of talent on paper

and have not won the Super Bowl, and then they're left for wondering what the hell they're going to do. And there's just as much of a chance that happens. And I think that when you have guys, again, like Peter's sitting there looking around and saying, well, what are they going to do with me if they didn't give the defensive player of the year an extension before they needed to?

And I do think that that has an impact. And consider what the Eagles did, right? And when Howie got that, when Roseman got that job again, the first thing he did was re-signed, Lane Johnson, Zach Ertz, Winnie Curry, which, again, that's not a good football move, but guys in the locker room took notice. Malcolm Jenkins said this to me.

It really changed how we all thought about this because we knew if we did our jobs, we'd be here in the long term. The ramps have not proven that to anyone. The two guys, they signed a contract extensions in recent years, Tavon Austin and Alic Ogletree are now gone. Yeah, I mean, it's the mental psychological part of team building that is really hard to measure. But ultimately, I think it's super important. I mean, we heard the same things for years with the Packers. That was kind of their thing. Like keep everything in-house.

We're going to sign the guys. We're going to keep our own. You know, and they built Super Bowl, you know, caliber teams doing that. And then the Seahawks did the exact same thing. Let's keep Cam Chancellors,

keep Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner. All year early, too. All year early. And so it was very, very much, I heard it for years here in Seattle is like, take care of our own.

You know, that was a very big sort of narrative and talking point for the coaching staff and GM. And I think that was, you know, very, you know, purposeful towards like fostering that, that team spirit and the motivation for players to kind of like do their best. And so they can, they can get rewarded when it's their time type of thing. You know what I'm saying? So like, like you're saying, it is like you're going to have players looking at it be like, okay, what do I have to do to get a freaking contract here? You know, like, like you said, like if they're not going to give the defensive player of the year, one of the best defenders in the league what he deserves, like, how am I going to get anything?

And so it kind of can create this uncertainty or mistrust with the front office. And so that's kind of like, again, it's the tightrope you have to walk this year. If you're just going to go ahead and kick the can down the road until next year, you better hope you can actually start winning because I think if you start losing games, that's when things like this really start to snowball. If they're winning, no one's going to give a shit, like he said. But if they start losing some games, if there's some adversity, and there's always adversity every season for any team.

that's when you start to worry, like, things like this can start to matter more. And it's interesting because I do think that there is a middle ground to be found. And I think the Eagles found it. And Les Need has said as much this offseason. He said, if the Eagles hadn't done what they did, I don't think we would have made these moves. That's so interesting, yeah. And I think that that's fair. And it's a good way to think about going after a championship and understanding that you can't stand, Pat.

Like, let's be aggressive. And the Eagles were trade happy. The Eagles did go get some guys to really fill out their roster. Alshon, Jeffrey, Timmy Jernigan, Ronald Darby, all that. But at their core, they still had that group of four or five guys that were the team. And the Rams don't really have that. They have gotten rid of all of the players that they had extended. Throw Robert Quinn in that mix too.

I mean, I think that was a good football move. And I think the Ogletree one was as well. But again, it just creates this kind of feeling about how you're going to build your team and what you're after. I mean, who are the mainstays on the Los Angeles Rams right now? First guy that comes to mind is Gurley. But we end up on the ramps for three years. I know.

And that's kind of like obviously. He has not been given a contract extension. Throw his name in the ring too for somebody that might need that franchise tag if they're using it on Donald. So I mean, I guess honestly it's like Donald and Brockers, I guess. I mean, it's like Rogers Saffold and Michael Brockers. I mean, that's it. Right.

It's interesting to me. I just feel like the dynamics of that locker room, I would love to be a fly on the wall there the entire year because I do think these things have an impact. And we think Donald should get paid. He obviously thinks he should get paid. The Rams have their concerns about it, evidently, because they still haven't done it yet.

And when you have people in the locker room making twice as much as you, your position and you got just got the hardware, I can understand that you're sitting there thinking, what the fuck is going on? Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, it hurts morale, can hurt morale. And, I mean, again, it's like we always talk about these intangible things,

and it's impossible to measure. But I do think all that stuff matters. I mean, the Eagles had such a strong, you know, cohesive locker room last year. I think that really shined, you know, in the playoffs and everything. And it's when your morale is down, it's hard to win. I mean, you know, it's just, I mean, hey, look, Cliff Averill yesterday came on the Dave Damashick show and was talking about how, you know, Ciox, basically. have gone downhill the last couple of years because they lost trust in Pete Carroll after

the Super Bowl loss and how that like created this cascading effect where all the players started to question whether he was like knew what he was doing and so I think that you know we've seen that that have a really negative effect on teams and so yeah I think it's certainly something worth worrying about you know it's it could go either way but it's it's certainly a real a real factor. Do they scare you as much as any other team in the NFC? After all that conversation and all the looming dread and just disaster that may happen because of the way they've handled the players in that locker room,

do they still scare you more than anyone else? I wouldn't say that I think that the best or most complete team. I think their interior defensive line is the scariest, though, for sure. Like, if you're worried about your quarterback getting hurt, Like the Rams of the team you don't want to play that. I'll put that way. Like, I'm more, I would say, like, I think the Saints are probably more complete. Obviously, the Vikings are one of the most deep teams in the NFL and the Eagles are super deep too.

And so there's other teams in the NFC that are, I think, quote, better. So you think they're the fourth best team in the NFC? Probably, yeah, that's probably where I'd put them around there. But, I mean, I think they have the potential to be the first, you know, they have the potential to be the best just based on all the talent they have. but I'm still thinking like the depth from those other teams I mentioned are probably a little bit stronger right now. I can't really disagree.

First thought, it's like, man, fourth really with all those guys? But then you think about it and I can understand that. And again, going back, if they're the fourth best team and we're saying that right now, that's not like we're going to win the Super Bowl with all these risks we've made. And if they don't and it goes wrong,

then you're really left scrambling to figure out what the hell is going to go on. Again, flexibility is nice, but there is this, I assume there's going to be some sort of just discontent that rises up if this team does not win a lot this year, just again,

based on some of the decisions they've made. It's fascinating. I mean, I think that, again, going back to the beginning of the podcast, there's so much cool stuff to talk about with the NFL right now. Instead,

we're left discussing how dumb the league is about any decision that it makes. All right, but that's all I got. Anything else you want to say about this? No, man. I think it's like, I think you just nail it, though. It's like there's so many interesting things. And the NFC in particular is crazy fun this year. And so it's just getting me pumped up for the season already.

I mean, it's only May and we're already getting excited. That's a good sign. I agree, bud. All right, sounds good. Everyone, enjoy your memorial day. If it's already happened, I hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back in a couple weeks continuing our offseason schedule. As always, really appreciate it.

Thank you for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast. No.