The Ringer NFL Show - The Future For Jacksonville, New Coaches, and the Case Keenum Situation | GM Street (Ep. 227)

Episode Date: January 24, 2018

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier discuss what went wrong for Jacksonville (01:45), Steve Wilks as head coach in Arizona (12:30), Mike Vrabel as head coach in Tennessee (15:30), and Todd Haley as offensive coordinator in Cleveland (18:00). Then, they discuss the Case Keenum situation in Minnesota (23:30), the Patriots wearing white in the Super Bowl (34:00), and Oscar nominations (37:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Championship Weekend is finally washed over all of us. We can now regather our thoughts. recorded late Sunday night and responded as soon as the games. Not even when the second game was over because it was decided at halftime, but we're back to figure out what's going on around the NFL. And we watched the tape. You know, watching the tape of the game, Tate Frazier, watching both tapes of the game, obviously the Eagles dominated in every aspect of that game.

So which, but watching the Patriot Jacksonville game was fascinating because Jacksonville had so many opportunities. You know, when you go home, when Minnesota flies home after that, that game, you know, who can, right? You lose like that. You're like, they were the better team, right? They kicked our ass. We didn't really have a chance.

We turned the ball over. We made all these mistakes. Whereas if you're Jacksonville and you're flying home and you look at that, you know, the Miles Jack play when you really slow that down, the quick whistle, the third and 18, you know, Brady opens up. I heard Tony Romo talk about this on the pod with Bill. I mean, really, the guy that was at fault with that was Telvin Smith because, you know, they're taught in their Jacksonville Cup.

coverages to read the quarterback's shoulders. And Brady opened up way to the left, which Telvin Smith should have easily dropped to the middle of the field, which would have put him right where Amadola was. But he didn't. He took the bait on the flat route over there. Don't ask me why players do that, right? Third and 18, somebody takes the bait on a flat route because that's the way they're trained. They can't help themselves.

And this is Telvin Smith, one of the best linebackers in football. And so when he realized this, he was late when you go back and watch the tape and you see his reaction when he gets off the pile, he's pissed off at himself because he knows he should have been closer to the middle of field and maybe even broken that pass up. So you look at that play, you look at the pass interference calls, and you go back over the tape and you say, wow,

you know, you were right there. You had a chance. Blake had a chance. He threw some really bad balls in the second half. I mean, some really bad balls. But none, the worst play, not the worst play, but I think the two plays that we didn't talk about on Sunday was the Trey Flowers play that Jacksonville gets the ball.

They're driving down the field. The score is 17, the 10 at this time. They're driving down the field and it's third and two. And Jacksonville calls naturally Sprintwright option, which I still think I don't understand how Bill Walsh isn't getting a residual. It's the safest playing football. Right. But I mean, if the Eagles still make money on Hotel, California,

every time it's played, shouldn't Bill Walsh? We need some syndication. Let's figure out the fees for that. Bill should charge a fee for Sprintra every time it's called. That being said, okay. And Flowers bats the ball down, almost intercepts it and they have to kick the long field goal. Incredible play, because if they get that first down, which Marcus Lee was wide open, and he was going to get the first down, they could go

down, they could get it to 24. You know, they could, they could have scored a touchdown. Who knows at that point? And then I think the three plays after the Miles Jack, we talked about this on the air. The three plays after the Miles Jack turnover, I think if Jacksonville had their way, they would go back to him. And, you know, the mortals just couldn't really, when he had to make a throw, he couldn't make a throw. And that was the drive, too, when you expect the Patriots that turned this game around. And they had this big play. They call this trick play with Amandola,

throwing the ball back across to Dionne Lewis. He has all the blockers in front of him, all this space. One of the worst. And I'm a Dion Lewis fan, but when you watch it on the tape, it's more alarming watching it on the tape than when you really, like if he would have taken exit stage,

if he had gone to the bench, he might have scored. He went back into the coverage. Like we talked about on that. It's even worse because it's like, what was he thinking about? Well, it seemed like he was trying to just, he almost got happy because he saw all the space in front of him.

just took off and got ahead of his blockers. And then when Miles Jack makes the play, you saw the frustration on the sideline from him. And a lot of people, you know, they were saying, you know, why is he so upset, blah, blah, blah. I think he knew at the time, if I stripped that ball, take it back. We're looking at a game over at this point. And you put the hand back in your offense. You take a quick three and out and you give the ball right back to Brady and, you know, the rest is history. I think the thing with the Jacksonville, just seeing all the postgame stuff, the thing that you have to like to see if you're a fan of the Jaguars.

There's just a fan of football in general. They're not making excuses. Boyer, he came out and he said, you know, I need to look at the rule of pass interference, but I take it. It was pass interference. It was on me. I can't let that happen anymore. Jalen Ramsey said there are no moral victories for this team.

Telvin Smith basically, you know, said the exact, echoed that statement and said similar things. I mean, I was impressed with the way the Jaguars. There's such a young team, and they obviously have this bravado and they're very brash. They say how they feel. They promise Super Bowls. But I think the way that they responded as a team after that loss is pretty impressive. As from one millennial to another, I think you can appreciate that, right? Yeah.

And I kind of did too. I think the challenge is, if you're Jacksonville, is this notion, and I've been there before, is when you've gotten that far up the mountain, right, you have to realize that you have to go back down to the bottom of the mountain and climb it again. Like, there's no easy way to get back up. There is no more. He's right. Jaylon Ramsey is right.

There's no moral victories. I mean, whatever happens on Super Bowl Sunday, 10 days from now, when the Patriots start their offseason program, there will not be one trophy. walking through the lobby. Especially not that AFC championship trophy I don't even know where they are. They'll probably have my crafts office somewhere.

There's no way that those still exists. They probably use them as like a book, like a book. They probably burn them and repurpose the metal for the benches or something. Yeah. So for Jacksonville, it's great that they did this but knowing Coughlin,

they will burn everything that they did last year and start anew. And that starting anew starts with what do they do with Bortles, right? And I've been fairly clear about where they go with Blake Bortles. But I think this is going to be the fascinating conversation because Bortles was operating on a rookie contract, okay, that they extended out and guaranteed for $19 million just on injury only. Now, if they do this, if they guarantee that $19 million and get one year out of

them, that locker room, and they're not shy about talking either, their locker room is going to say, wait a minute, he's not our best player. We're managing this guy the whole time. This is going to that could really affect the chemistry of the locker room and the culture within the locker room. Because for all their high-priced players, Malik Jackson, Callais Campbell, Boye, all those guys, Ramsey's a high because he's a draft pick. All those guys have played to a high level, even though they're highly paid. And nobody could question whether they're worth the money. You can with Blake.

And I think that's going to be the, that's the one issue that Tom Coughlin and Doug Marone, I know Caldwell is going to say, because he's all in on Blake. but that's the one thing they're going to have to decide on how they handle that. And that decision is going to determine whether they can get back on top of the mountain again. And so Bortles comes out and he says, I would be thrilled to remain with the Jaguars. That was his statement on the situation. The problem that they have to deal with now is you have the status quo situation where he is our quote-unquote franchise quarterback, so therefore he needs to get paid like a franchise quarterback.

But the problem there, like you said, the defense is really the franchise. Right. And if you don't pay that defense out and get those guys back in good spirits and feel like they've been compensated for what they did, then you're going to have a problem all around with that. Yeah, you're going to have a real problem. You're going to have an issue because, look, one thing winning does, players want to get paid when they win, right? They want to get paid.

I mean, it's the Pat Riley disease of me. Everybody thinks they're the reason why you win. And it goes down to the equipment guy, it goes down to the trainers. Everybody thinks that. You know, you win one. I used to tell the story all the time when I was with the Cleveland Browns and Art Modell was the owner. You know, if a guy lines up for a game-winning field goal to win the championship,

Modell would say, if this guy makes the field goal, everybody's going to get five years extensions. If he misses it, everybody's fired. You know, it's like, that's that's the balance. Everybody wants to get these new deals. And so for Jacksonville, how they handle it and how they approach it really is going to be critical. Nolan Coughlin, he's going to go back and do his due diligence. And then they're going to have to have the conversation with Blake Bortles.

Look, Blake, we would like you back. Like, I would even have this conversation with Blake. Blake, we'll take you back. Two things you have to understand. We're not paying you $19 million. That's out of question, right? You're not a franchise quarterback, okay? We'll take you back.

We'll pay you $10 million a year. We are going to sign a quarterback to compete with you. If you happen to be the backup, at $10 million, we'll live with it. If you're not the backup and you're the starter, you'll have incentives to play. But you're welcome to stay here, but we ain't giving you the starting job. We're going to go out and find a guy. And by keeping him on the team, it allows you to say, okay, Kirk Cousins, you want to come here, does Nick Foles go to Jacksonville?

Maybe Nick Foles is Jacksonville's new. I don't know, but I think you have to have that mindset. And I will say, I mean, it is a weird situation where if Blake Bortles own, I mean, I'm sure his agent and all of his people will not want him to do that. But if he does the Tom Brady discount where I do want to take less. And it ain't a discount though for Blake Bordles. Let's get that safe. Yeah, 10 million is probably boring.

10 is like you're still overpaying Blake. Exactly. But if Blake does do that and he comes out and it's well known that, you know, to the least of his teammates and everyone that he did go out there and put himself on the line and say, I will sacrifice some compensation that most quarterbacks would get in my situation where they don't have to deal with the flacco thing. Because, I mean, just imagine if Blake Bortles did win, they get up 24 and they do beat the Patriots and then go to the Super Bowl. He was going to get a flaco contract. Oh, yeah, it was definitely. They couldn't wait. I mean, you know, there's no doubt.

I mean, and it's hard not to because the pressure from the media is like we got to, but you have to figure out why you're winning, right? I think they were in that game because Nathaniel Hark had called a great game. I think they were really smart with their game plan preparation and how they attacked the people. Patriots defense. But when push came to shove and he had to make a really good throw, whether it was the throw over on third and 10, that they blitz the corner and he kind of hangs it in the air, so he lets the guy come over and make the tackle just in time and they fought Marcus Lee's like one yard short or whatever it was. I mean, you've got to look at those plays and say, wait a minute, time out. But the other thing is, and I think this is what people don't understand, what makes the

Patriots so successful, which makes the Spurs successful as well, is the integrity that they keep towards the finances. Like I've been in too many meetings where, hey, let's sign this player and Belichick will say, I have a hard, I can't pay him more than Julian Edelman. We can't pay him more. Like what Edelman's done for the team, I'm not going to pay this guy.

And I think Jacksonville has to take a little bit of that approach. And especially with that defense, I mean, because as you run through it, they're all big name guys. And they're all signed, right? Yes. They really don't have, I mean, they've got to get Miles Jack healthy now. That's going to be key for them.

But they're fast, their side. Their coordinator seems to be really like he knows what he's doing. They're comfortable with. what they're doing. To me, their future's bright if they accept that they have to start back. See, that's Arizona's problem, right? I said this two years ago when Arizona just lost the championship game. Arizona had this mentality that when they opened up the season to get the Patriots, that everything was going to be fine. They got it. They're already at the summit of the mountain. We have Bruce Ariens. We got Carson. We got Carson's coming off a great year. We're already

midway at the summit. All we just have to do is keep climate. No, no, no, no. You got to start back at zero. I saw this article about the Spurs, how they do it. They go back to basics in training camp. They literally start with chairs on the basketball court and how they work on how they're going to teach defense. Same thing with the Patriots. When they come back in, when they come back in their building for their April offseason, there'll be no idea of that they won the Super Bowl, got to the Super Bowl, lost, whatever it is. I mean, and the first thing Belichick will tell the team is, look, that's behind us. It's the first day of school. We ain't talking about. Right. It's the first day of school. I hope you have a new lunch. I hope you have a Batman lunch bow because it's a new day.

Yeah, and we're in session and we're ready to go. You just brought up Arizona, so we might as well talk about it. Let's talk about it. Defense coordinator for the Carolina Panthers, a guy that had not been heard from much Steve Wilkes decides to go to the Arizona Cardinals, gets a head coaching job. He is a beloved figure in Carolina with the Panthers. Those defensive players loved him. I know Julius Peppers had nothing but glowing things to say about the guy. He goes to Arizona. They have a defense and a secondary that could be premier. A lot of people thought at one time that, you know, Patterson could be a guy that, or Peterson, I'm sorry, could be a guy that, you know, was the best corner of league. You got Honey, Badger, Tyron Matthew, a lot of names there. But I think the interesting thing with

Wilkes is who's going to take over on offense and who's going to be that quarterback in that situation. And a lot of rumors are saying Darrell Bevel from the Seattle Seahawk could be there. Right. I think that's kind of a situation. I was told that they weren't. I thought that would be a better situation for Pat Shermer because he would be able to bring, whether it's Nick Foles, whether it's Case Keenham, whatever transpired, maybe he could fill. the quarterback slot. I heard they weren't that overly impressed with Pat Shermer and that they weren't going to offer him the job. And so they went with this Wilkes. And I think that now they have Bevel, if he hires Bevel, which he might today or tomorrow, he has to rebuild his offense and that's how

they have to do it. I'm not against that at all because I think sometimes those arranged offensive marriages don't really allow your team to get the true toughness that you need. And I think Wilkes, if he copies the Carolina method, which is Sean McDermott, playing that style of defense, which he did in Carolina, you know, that'll certainly help Arizona develop more toughness, more character, and then they got to fix the offense. Look, it all is going to start on who they draft the quarterback. They won in the homes last year. Now they're going to get it, whether it's Beville, whomever, they got to figure out what they're going to do on offense. Absolutely. And just basically, they are starting from ground zero. They are 100 percent with that. Yeah, I don't think

it's a great job. I really don't. I know that Steve Kime, the general manager, they think they have a really good team. I don't think they really are. I think their offensive line has been a disaster. It's really been poor. Well, you've seen like top draft picks, like a Jonathan Cooper type that went there. Didn't work out. You know, DJ Humphre really hasn't been a very dominating player. You know, Valdeer, they signed from the Raiders. He's kind of, like, they're broken up on the offensive line.

They don't have that. They get David Johnson back as a running back. They need a quarterback. But their defense has to get to a level to where, I mean, Chandler Jones can be that guy. Remember the Carolina methodology is about the defensive front. So that's what has to happen in Arizona. they have to have the Chandler Jones kind of players really make the difference.

And they have some pieces of it, now that they have all the pieces, I don't know. Yeah. And a lot of focus on time of possession there with the offense as well. Probably get back to David Johnson running the ball a bit more than getting out. They're going to have to fix that line. They're going to have to fix both lines there. I mean, that's what Wilkes is going to have to do. That's what Kime's going to have to do.

I don't, like, I think it's probably like, okay, you know, McDaniels is the Indianapolis coach, coach. You got Patricia's going to Detroit. you know, Sherman went to the Giants. Like, I'm not opposed to hiring a defense coach because I think you get your toughness from the defense. But it's just coming down to who's the right guy to fit you offensively.

Vrable's a defensive coach. And that comes down to the same situation. And then let's talk about that situation. So we go to Tennessee, Mike Frable, a well-known linebacker, a guy that was, you know, people saw him on hard knocks, probably his biggest claim to fame. And I think that helped raise his profile a little bit when he was there with the Houston Texas.

I didn't watch that. How was he in that? He was good. I mean, I think it was a lot of people liked the way that he related with the players. he was around. JJ Watt always did this weird thing where he would work out late at night by himself with the ball machine and Vrabel would make fun. I mean, he made him a likable guy.

And we've seen what Hardnach can do for careers. I mean, Mike Westoff is a guy that's still getting jobs off his personality if you didn't know that. So Vrable comes in to Tennessee. He's a defensive guy and they obviously have a defense there in Tennessee, but they also have a quarterback situation with Mariotta. He says that he wants to groom Marcus Mariotto to be the guy in Tennessee. I know it's tough for a defensive guy to say that, but what does that mean for

Mario to hear that? Well, I think he knows that the reason he got the job is a little bit unique in the sense that the Robinson, the general manager, wanted to have somebody that had kind of some of a patriot influence, I think, couldn't get McDaniels. So he's got to figure out a way to get the quarterback to drive the engine of the Tennessee Titans. He's going to fix the defense. And this is going to be a critical hire. He tried to hire Ryan Day from Ohio State. That was a guy he wanted to have as his offensive coordinator. Day decided to stay in college because I think Ryan probably felt like if I want to be a college head coach, I'm probably.

better off staying at Ohio State. And frankly, the Ohio State OC job is better than being the OC of Tennessee. I'll do respect to Mariotto. So I think that's the case. But what I thought reading the commentary from variables, he had a philosophy offensively, defensively in the kid game, very

Belichekian and what he was trying to do. I think it's going to come down to experience. This is a hard job. He's a young coach. He doesn't have a lot of experience. So it's going to be a challenge in hiring the staff, especially late. When you put together a staff now, you're really

you're at the mercy of who's been fired. Yeah, you're behind the eight ball already. Right. I mean, that's why guys like Bevel, and Haley, those names come up. People say, well, they're just recital. You're kind of limited by what you could hire, right? And you can't go too young. You can't go, you know, so it's going to be fascinating to see

who he puts in charge of the offense and how they set up the offense with Henry and the way this team is built. It's built in Malarkey style. And I give, I'll give Rayble some time and I think it's going to take him some time. Because, look, as a first year coordinator, I would not say he'd say, he set the world on fire. I mean, last year, Vance Joseph got the job in Denver.

After first year, coordinator, I think his defense was in the bottom third. Injuries aside, this Texan defense wasn't great this year either. So it's going to be a challenge to see how he kind of puts it all together and brings it all together. And then let's talk about another guy, Todd Haley, an offensive coordinator.

That's, I'm going to pay to see. So Todd Haley, a guy that's not known for his West Coast offense, goes up to the Browns and joins Hugh Jackson, and we have a marriage man in heaven. Oh, you couldn't. Like, could I just say, now, if I was Roger

Godell, that just announced at the Super Bowl, the Thursday before the Super Bowl, that they should make the Browns being hard knocks. I mean, because this is too good. Hugh Jackson and Todd Hale, there might be a fight on the sideline. Literally, it could happen at any moment.

I mean, I know everything's nice and rosy and everything's perfect, but Hugh's from West Coast offense. Todd's from the Parcells, Charlie Weiss, actually Ron Earhart offense, North Dakota. to offense, okay? They've never been kind of meshed together with any seamless transition, right? And Hugh Jackson is very involved on the offensive side of the football, especially with the

running backs. Right. So now what's going to have to happen is Hugh's going to have to either make this decision. He's going to have told Haley, look, you run the offense. So then Haley's next question to Jackson is this, well, what terminology we're using? Are we going to use mine? Are we going to use yours? Okay. So one of them is going to have to learn new terminology. Like, is it going to be Hugh is it going to be Hallie? How are he going to learn the old system and then incorporate his ideas in that? I think it's going to be fat. And then who's going to call the game? I mean, what will Hugh do now on Sundays? Probably still yell at Deshaun Kaiser if I had to guess or at least say something to him. Yeah, it'll be an interesting situation there. I think it has. Like I said last

year, and I was right, I said last year they should definitely had hard knocks in the Giants wide receiver room because it would have been really too good. You know, and we didn't do that. I think card knocks should be in Cleveland. It should be about the rebuilding of this team. You got Dorsey. You got a story. You're going to have the first pick in the draft. They've got to pick a quarterback. I mean, this is just what you want. You want two guys coaching the number one draft pick. And especially a draft pick that's begrudgingly going to Cleveland. I don't know if you've seen the Josh Rosen report, which is one of my favorite reports, that he would rather go to a big market like New York than go to Cleveland. Of course. I don't even know how that's a report. And he's a millennial. And this is a

millennial. Like, I thought that the world's flat. I mean, Thomas Friedman told me that in a book years ago. The world's flat. Like, I didn't realize there's markets now. Like, everybody, like, like Cleveland, it's pretty good for LeBron, isn't it? Yeah. Well, at least Akron is. I don't know about Cleveland. I mean, I don't think it's affected LeBron's earning power, right? I don't know. The Josh Rosen thing to me, talent-wise, that's one thing. I think there's other issues. I think Josh Rosen's got to get evaluated there. But look, most offensive coaches will tell you, whether it's Gruden, whether it's Josh McDaniels, they will tell you

when they're the head coach or they're the offense court, they want to be the only guy talking to the quarterback. Like there's no confusion here, okay? I want to be the only guy. I want my message to be delivered to the quarterback, which then can be delivered through the team. Belichick meets with Brady

every Monday before the opponent, not because he's trying to super go around, Josh McDon't, because he wants to be involved with the offense. He wants Brady's to be able to communicate his message to the team. Touch base.

Touch base. And then also, here's my message that we need to drill this home. And if you tell it to the quarterback, the quarterback tells it, and he's the leader, he tells it to the offense. So it's a smart move for Bill.

He writes up all the defensive players. They go over them all. I mean, literally, I mean, he works. I mean, he doesn't clap. He works. Okay. So anyway, Sal, that was a shot at you. Anyway, so what I'm saying is,

like, now that you have Haley and you have Jackson, Like, who does that? Who's talking to the quarterback? You got this young quarterback who's going to be so impressionable that you have to mold. And had one of the roughest starts to his career this rookie season. It was tossed under the bus at least three times. By Hugh.

Okay, so now if Hugh's going to be the head coach, fine. And he wants Haley to run the offense. That's fine, too. But who's going to deliver the message to the quarterback? I think that has to get worked out. Like, yeah, you know, it checks how Haley's offense can work. Keynotes Pittsburgh. Yeah, okay, are they going to be better on offense? They could. Could they be worse? They also could because maybe there'll be some miscommunications. Well, they were top.

So Haley's offense in Pittsburgh, top ten in scoring past four seasons. We know that. We get that. But you got to look at the personnel. You got Levyon Bill. You got Antonio Brown. You got Martavis Bryant. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. At the end of the day, you got Ben Rothesburg. You got Vince. You got Vince. You got Vince. You have Mike Muncheck coaching the offensive line. I mean, you were really good there. I mean, and I think Pittsburgh realizes that, you know, it's probably better to have harmony and cohesiveness within their offensive staff than it is to have. Like, it's not just one guy while you win.

It isn't just the personnel guy or the – but for me, I think it's deeper than this. I think this is the false duality of the hire is, yeah, will you make the offense better? Yeah, that's A or B. But C, D, and F of this situation is how does it impact the whole team? And how do you create a culture within your building with the quarterback? which is who you want to build the culture with, right? You know, look what, look what DeShon Watson did for Houston, right? Bill O coached him.

He created a culture down there. It helped. That's what I worry about. Absolutely. And you talk about building cultures behind a quarterback. We have a situation in Minnesota where Case Keenham takes this Minnesota Vikings team to the, you know, NFC championship game, has these amazing moments in the playoffs,

especially with the Diggs touchdown. We all know that. We all understand that. But Case Keenham, for people that do not remember, he was brought in to be a safety net for this, this offense and for Sam Bradford, and he ended up leading this team. But now we have three quarterbacks in Minnesota,

Sam Bradford, Case Keenham, Teddy Bridgewater, all guys that will be done. And now we're in a situation where Minnesota has to decide, do we buy back into the Case Keenham camp? Do we have to pay him?

Would you pay Case Keenham? Personally, I would not pay Case Keenum because we've seen. Don't apologize for the comment. He's going to be 30 years old. He's a smaller quarterback, but he has done some great things and has some awesome moments in the NFL already. But now we're sitting a situation where Minnesota has to decide we have this Mike Zimmer defense

We have a culture We have continuity. We have everything in place But now we have to figure out who our quarterback of the future is and I wanted to throw out a scenario to you And I think that there are two quarterbacks that are also free agents that are big names One is Drew Breeze The second is Kirk Cousins and I know that a lot of people in Minnesota Probably will you know go and say we need to bring case back look what he did for us You can't throw this guy away you know so quickly and maybe even Nick Foles goes in that camp I mean is Minnesota in the marketplace right now to try to

persuade a big name quarterback to come there and try to steer this team to the Super Bowl. So let's break it down. Let's deal with what we know and what we don't know. We know who Case Keenham is. Okay. And if you really want to be honest with yourself and you take the emotion out of it and, you know, Case Keenum beat a bad Packer defense. You know, the Bears weren't very good. Not dismiss it because I like Case Keenum. But there's a ceiling for Case Keenum. For me, Case Keenum is about a 62 player. He's just good enough. You know, you're probably, you're going to need a lot of things go your way. If I were in Minnesota, I would watch every single throw in completion that Case Keenham had, and I would grade it predicated on, was this a great throw

by Keenham, or was this Adam Thieland making an incredible catch? Or was this Stefan Diggs making a play? You have to do this. This is one of the things in the book, one of the chapters in my book, I talk about, as you know, I get annoyed by people on TV, and I tend to mute the TV. So one of it is oftentimes, Like, you know, and this happens in college more. But when a guy, like Brandon Marshall caught 21 or 23 balls, set the record in the NFL for the most catches. Like how many of them were scheme-driven catches or how many were they at Brandon Marshall actually caught?

So taking that concept, if you're Rick Spielman, you've got to go back and watch every throw that Case Keenum made and evaluate, was it Keenum that made this play? Was it Pat Shermer's offense that made this play? Or was it this receiver that? And break it down, okay? and then that's going to come up with your answer. For me, I think the answer is going to lie that some of it was Keenan,

some of it was the receivers, some it was the scheme, not enough of it to pay over $10 million a year for Case Keenum. I'm still going to need better players around them. Okay, so we know that. That's what we know. What we don't know is where Bridgewater's health is. We have no idea about how good his knee is, can he throw. We know that they didn't feel good enough about Bridgewater

to activate them for the playoff games in case they needed them. They felt more comfortable with Bradford. What we know about Bradford is he's got bone on bone with his knee. We know he can't stay healthy. He is made of glass. Whether it's his knee, elbow, shoulder, you know, right ear drum, sort for whatever it is, he's going to miss games. We know this, right?

So now at the end of the day, you're in Minnesota. You have three quarterbacks, but you really don't have one. You don't. Yeah. If you sign Keenham, you're saying, we've got to have to be really good everywhere else. Okay? played against the number one defense or whatever that defense was,

struggled to move the ball against Philadelphia. So you're going to have to sign somebody else. If you sign Bradford, you're going to pray that he doesn't get hurt. If you sign Bridgewater, and you would be the only ones who know what Bridgewater could do because you watched him practice, I haven't seen Bridgewater in two years. I have no idea what he could be.

Now, if you go to Breeze and you think that Sean Peyton loves Baker Mayfield, which he's made no secret that he loves Baker Mayfield. And I could see Sean Peyton love in Baker Mayfield. It would be Sean Peyton reincarnated. right. Like John Gruden's looking for the next John Gruden, to quarterback the Raiders. They all do.

Sean Peyton's looking for the next Sean Peyton. Drew Breeze and Sean Peyton are kind of like. Very similar. And how he played at Eastern Illinois. Now, obviously, Breeze is more talented, but they're kind of gritty, tough, throw it, you know, willing to take risk. I'm not saying this in any negative way towards Sean Payton. Yeah.

So we know he wanted Mahomes last year. We know he wants a new quarterback. Not that he's disrespectful to Baker to Breeze, but he knows he needs to make the change. And so does Breeze. And so does Breeze. For two years, would Breeze be unbelievable Minnesota? Absolutely. Would you make that deal? Should you give up a first round pick for him?

There lies the question. I don't know. I think Minnesota has to look at all the things. And then you just watch Nick Foles do what he did. Do you go sign him? Do you bring him there? And now here's the next question for you, Tay Frazier. Who's my offensive coordinator in Minnesota? Is it McAdone? Are you going to hire

McAdone? Because Mike Zimmer's represented by Bob Lamont, who then represents Bob McAdone, and Ben McAdone, you're going to bring those two together? That's going to be a challenge. Yeah, that's just the whole scenario in Minnesota. There's no answer. There is no answer.

There's no good answer there. And I think it's also, I mean, we didn't even talk about cousins being in the fold. I mean, every single team in the NFL thinks that cousins going to be their quarterback next year. But who's to say he just doesn't resign with the Washington Redskins? I don't think he'll resign with them. I think he'll take them, you know, like we've talked about on this podcast numerous times. The Redskins said they weren't going to pay them $16 million a year. They're absolutely right.

They never paid him 16. They're going to pay them 25. They paid him 25. So I don't think he's going to resign there. I think he knows too many teams, whether it's Denver, Jacksonville, that would probably take them. He knows San Francisco's doors been closed. We can talk about Garapola. We know they're going to franchise him.

They're not going to lose him. If you're in Minnesota, there's a lot of moving pieces here. And you're going to have to be on top of your game. So the only thing you can control if you're in Minnesota is what you know. You know where Keenham is. And you can't let that affect your decision. making. You can't say, let's just sign Keenham, we'll do the same thing we did last year. No, it won't happen because Chicago will be better. Detroit will be better. Whomever, you know, your schedule's

going to change. You've got to look at all those things. So I think it becomes a more difficult problem if you're Minnesota. I would explore everything and hold back nothing. Maybe you draft another guy. I don't know. I think Minnesota is truly in a tough spot. Is there any world in which a guy like Case Keenum values himself enough and wants the opportunity to maybe take less money to come back to Minnesota and try to compete with someone? Or is he already out on the marketplace and knows he is value? I would never franchise Case Keenum, you know, because in the most critical game, his flaw showed up. And the only way you can really evaluate a player is in the most critical game. I mean, what is Minnesota? They are a team that cannot deal with turnovers.

They can't deal with turnovers. They don't want to turn the ball over. They're a defensive team. they need to get better in their offensive line. And maybe that's Bridgewater. Maybe they feel good enough with Bridgewater. And they extend Bridgewater out for the bridge for the year. Maybe they look in a breeze. Maybe Sean Payton decides, you know what, I need to make a change, what's going on down here in New Orleans?

It's a lot of moving pieces. Nick Foles could look at Minnesota and say, wow, that would be a great situation for me. And a lot of it depends on who they hire as the offensive coordinator. Because that's going to determine his relationship with people are going to determine where they go. And who knows? If Nick Foles, miraculously wins his performance.

Super Bowl against the New England Patriots, you could be signing a Super Bowl-winning quarterback to your team in the offseason. Yeah, I mean, look, the Raiders made a living signing Super Bowl's MVP's guys, Larry Brown. I mean, that's what they used to do all the time. So, no, it wouldn't put it past me. I mean, look, I think there's so many, this is what makes this offseason, and we'll cover it on GM Street all offseason is what makes it so fascinating is the GM intrigue, is the quarterback intrigue.

Like, there's no answer. And then you add layer in the Baker Mayfields, the Josh Allen's, the Sam Darnolds, and the Josh Rosins into this layer, right? And how it plays. Because if you're Minnesota, you've got to evaluate all four quarterbacks, plus you've got to evaluate the quarterbacks. You can't just independently say, okay, I'm going to evaluate Sam Darnold, and I'm not going to evaluate the free agents.

You've got to compare them as if they were all one. Like, who gives us the best chance, short term and long term? I think that's a tough challenge if you're Minnesota. And now you don't have a quarterback coach to help you, really hard. I mean, they'll get one. If it's macadol, good luck. Yeah, and we should say, I mean, Jared McKinnon, a guy who was basically their offense.

He was a Todd Gurley to Minnesota. He was a thing that kept things rolling, got him going early in games. He's going to be a free agent. They have Cook coming back, a guy. To his ACL. Apparently he's running this week and getting back in health. And then obviously Latavius Murray, a guy. They signed from open.

Which is a good signing. I mean, look, Rick Spillman did a great job with that team. Take my hat off to him. He did a good job. I think the other coach, Tony Sparano, could be a free agent. Their offensive line coach, they re-sign. I think he did a great job. I mean, there's a lot of things that Minnesota is going to have to deal with as a result

of winning and they're going to have to overcome those things and they're going to have to deal with things that they're really not sure of. And then Spielman's going to have to be really on top of his game this offseason because there's going to be a lot of moving. And let me say this, they won't know where they are until August of next year because it's going to take more than just two weeks in the off season to figure it all out. I have one crazy scenario that could play out. So if Nick Foles wins, Super Bowl, he's the Eagles Super Bowl winning quarterback. Yes. Our team is making calls for Carson wins. No, because, I mean, look, Carson Wins was so good, right?

And so the Eagles now are in a dilemma. That's why I think they've been pumping up Nate Seufeld so much is because they know they probably can't afford to bring Foles back. I mean, it's a Jimmy Garoppolo situation. Do they pay Foles as a starter? Because, look, we know Wenz got hurt in December. So for him to be back in September, it might be a little iffy, right? So you've got the September games.

Who's going to play that at quarterback? If you're Philadelphia, maybe you draft another quarterback. Maybe you go young or maybe you sign one of these other guys. I mean, look, if you're Philly and you've dressed up Nick Foles to make them look this good, you probably have a sense to, you know, we'll make anybody look pretty good. Maybe we'll even bring Aaron Murray back and maybe he'll figure it out. I don't know. Yeah.

But I think maybe even Jeff Garcia, we can bring him out of retirement. Hey, he says he can still play, you know? So I would suspect that they can't really enter into the – once what Foles has done in the two playoff games has priced himself out. of the Philadelphia market for me, I think. Yep, absolutely. One final thing today. I want to talk to you a little bit about what's going on.

I don't know you're talking about the Oscars in the Academy. No? We can talk about it then if you want to, a little run through. The Patriots are going to wear white in the Super Bowl. And I should shout out to Darren, the Parlay Kid, from Against All Odds, the podcast. He did point this out, 12 and 1,

the team to wear white in the Super Bowl, and the Patriots are wearing white. I mean, do we buy any stock into this? No, none. None. I mean, it's like, look, I told you before on the pocket, Like I used to wear the same clothes to the game. No belief in look good, play good.

No, I mean, I used to wear the same clothes of the game all the time. And Millie would say to me, well, if it really mattered what you wore, why do you go to work at 4 o'clock in the morning? Like, it doesn't really matter. It's going to come down to what happens on it, not what uniform you wear. I just think that, you know, I remember being a kid waking up wondering when I was a Packer fan growing up. And I'm like, you know, this is like before, you know, this is like in the dark ages. Like I was wondering where the Packers going to wear white or they're going to wear it. Because, you know, it wasn't ever publicized.

Of course. The second Super Bowl, you know. and you're wondering what they're going to wear because the first time you see those uniforms as a kid on color television, you're like, oh my God, this is magical. It's like going to Disney for the first time. It's like, oh, my God, this is unbelievable.

So, no, I put no stock in that tape, Frazier. What was your favorite? Like, all right, you're a Carolina guy. Did you like when the Tar Heels wore their home or away? Home whites. You like the home whites. You felt comfortable in the home whites. I always was very frustrated in football

that the teams would wear their colors at home and the basketball teams are where the whites at home. I was always very upset about that because I feel like you should always wear white at home. I do too. Like I hate the 76ers who blew another lead last night against Memphis just for the record, okay? Just for the record.

I want you to know that. When's the kangaroo kid? Where's the next kangaroo kid? Can we get Billy Cunningham? Where is he coming from? I have no idea. Let's bring Larry Brown back. Oh, God, I would love that.

Anyway, you still haven't gotten them on this podcast. Anyway, so like I don't understand like they don't. I like him in white when they play home. Like last night they wore the crappy red. Like I hate their. red. Like, no, no, please. It just is very clean and it just looks nice. It looks like you just did your laundry

and you're wearing your nice new outfits out there. I'm with you. I mean, the pictures look good and white, but you know, the Eagles look good in their dark colors. You know, I'm sure they'll probably have a, I think the Eagles should wear the uniform that they beat Vince Lombardi in. If I were the Eagles, that's what I were doing. If I were the Eagles... Is it the old school, Kelly Green? Old school, Kelly Green. We beat

the only loss that Vince Lombardi ever had in a playoff game was against the Philadelphia Eagles on Franklin Field and Chuck Benerick held up Jimmy Taylor before he could get the, you know, to call time out, I'd wear that uniform. Now, that would be the jinx. And where, and where the, yeah, come out. Like, you remember when Notre Dame used to wear their green when Lou Holtz was, they

come out and everybody, oh, they wore green? That's, that would be my idea. That's pretty good. I like that. I'm a big fan of uniforms. Like, I think uniforms matter, but I don't think color of the uniforms matter. Oh, I've always been that way. I mean, as soon as Oregon, you know, caught in and called steam in, like, 2009, 2010,

with the whole Oregon movement, we're going to have, like, 14 different combinations. If I was signing back then, I would have gone to Oregon. Just for that. And see, you say that, and that's when I realized I was old. At that moment, I realized I'm an old ass because, like, I didn't like that. Like, I like traditional uniforms. Like, I don't like to change traditional uniforms. I was also in a difficult situation with North Carolina is a very traditional school,

especially their football program. Like Bush Davis came in and let them wear navy pants for the first time and finally got them navy uniforms. And it was if he decided that the Bible didn't exist. I mean, people lost their minds. What's that saying that, you know, God must be a tar heel because why would you... The sky's Carolyn and blue.

Right. I mean, so like, why would you change that? And we face the devils every single day. Like, exactly. Like, why would you change that? Like, I don't get that. Like, I don't get that. Like, for me, that's what I knew.

When these popular, all... Well, now it's gotten too oversaturated now, and, you know, we're wearing, like, pink uniforms, even though our school is blue and white, you know? It's just... It's all loss in the sauce at this point. Quickly, Oscar nominations did come out. You said you wanted to mention that. Yeah.

Your movie of the... the year, picture of the year. You have not seen them all. I got to go, no, a million and I'm going to go, that's the one thing we always try to do is see them all. I saw one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my life. We rented this movie, the killing of a sacred deer or something like that. Killing of a sacred deer, yeah, Colin Farrell. It was unbelievable. Like, who read that script and thought this was a good movie? Like, somebody, like, this is what I wonder about. Like, sometimes, like, I wonder, do they, the people, like, I always thought that about Robin Williams. Like, as brilliant as he was,

he would be in like this really good movie and he would be in this really bad movie and I wondered he, like you ever read the scripts? Like did he ever read it? It comes down to the agent a lot of times, right? I guess so. I thought you were going to say something bad about Flubber and I was going to get really upset.

No, Flubber's a great movie. I didn't see that one. Oh, you got to see that. I saw the darkest hour and I saw the post. That's really the only two on that list. I got to go see. I love the darkest hour. I would vote for that no matter why.

You got to go see three billboards outside of Missouri. Is that good? Yeah, it's my favorite screenwriter. I used to be really big in the play, You used to read like old Shakespeare plays and modern plays all the time when I was a loser. I was a nerd. You should read Neil Simon's book called Rewrites. It's one of the best books you'll ever read.

It's really, it taught me a lot about A writing. And it also taught me a lot about people. And in that book, Neil Simon talks about why he struggled so much to make his plays successful. He was really having a hard time writing plays. And it wasn't until he figured out that he made the character. is interesting enough in Act 1 that you'd want to see him in Act 3. And if you pick your friends like that,

if you have friends that are interesting enough in Act 1, you can't wait to be with them in Act 3, that's a pretty good mantra to follow. And I think that that's why he was so good with his play. So in that book, he talks a lot about that. You would like that. I have that. I'll give it to you. I need to read that. Martin McDonnor

that directed and wrote this movie. He was a guy that saved the Globe Theater over in England. Great playwright. The Hangman's a great play if you ever have time to read that. You should definitely read that. I like this. He's one of my favorite guys. I like learning stuff about you,

Tate Frazier. Yeah, it's a great movie that people should go see. I know a lot of people, some people are, it's getting like, it's the favorite now, so people are talking bad about it.

This movie? Yeah, three billboards outside of Ebbing, Missouri. But it was shot in Silva, North Carolina. Great little small town outside of Asheville, North Carolina. Wow. So, wow. All right,

right where Western Carolina is also. Anything else, NFL related we need to hit. We're going to be back. Not on Friday, but we will be back. No, we will be back on Friday. We will be back on Friday. We'll be back on Friday. We can talk more about the Oscars and we can move.

Yeah, we're going to talk. I don't know what we're going to talk about on Friday. Maybe we'll talk about the senior ball. I think that's probably a good recap of the week. This is the week of the senior ball. We could start a little draft preparation on Friday. I'm just glad you said we weren't going to talk about the pro ball because I can't do that. No, we're not going to talk about the pro ball.

All right. Well, this has been another edition, GM Street, part of the Ringer podcast network. Right now, Bill Belichick is calling Michael Barbardi. We will be back on Friday. We will be back on Friday. See you then. Thanks, Tate.