The Ringer NFL Show - The Hobbled Lions, Patrick Mahomes’s Injury Concerns, and It’s Time for the Kirk Cousins Experiment to End

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

In the final midweek episode of the show for the season, Sheil Kapadia is joined by Nora Princiotti to hit a number of headlines (00:00). First, they discuss the mounting number of injuries for the Lions (03:25), and then they discuss the severity of Patrick Mahomes’s high ankle sprain and whether it will have a serious impact on the Chiefs’ title hopes (10:41). They also talk about the potential beginning of the Michael Penix Jr. era (18:03), as well as Jerry Jones’s continued defense of Mike McCarthy (23:11). After that, Steven Ruiz joins for QB Corner to discuss four quarterbacks who could hit free agency this offseason—Sam Darnold, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Kirk Cousins—as well as potential landing spots for them (31:56). For more, you can check out Sheil’s Week 15 reaction piece on The Ringer’s new website. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia, Nora Princiotti, and Steven Ruiz Producer: Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA and check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting

right on the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Shield Capati here with Nora Prince Yati, a bunch of newsy items around the league this week. So we're going to go over five stories, five headlines and make sense of them. And then we will bring in Stephen Ruiz for QB corner. Nora, this is going to be. to be the second time I've heard your voice today because I walked into a room earlier today. My wife's got on binge miss and I'm like, wait, I recognize that voice.

I'm about to talk to that person in like two hours. So nice to actually talk to you, not just hear your voice. Sheila, I don't know if your wife shared one of my central takeaways from Christmas in the spotlight, which is the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey sort of parody hallmark, or I think it's actually Lifetime movie, that recently came out that

the fabulous Jody Walker and I were discussing on Benjamas. But I think you'll appreciate this. In that movie, the Travis Kelsey character, he has a different name. I've seen the movie. I don't remember what it is. He is a nine-time MVP.

Oh, my God. He is a nine-time MVP of the league. And this character in the world of the film, he is also constantly worried about how his numbers are down. It's always a big deal that, oh, no, his numbers are down. So simultaneously, Travis in the movie,

again, not Travis. What is his name? His nickname is Gonzo. So Gonzo is his numbers are down. He's very worried. Simultaneously, he is what would have to be the greatest football player who has ever lived. By far.

By far, by a wide margin. Peyton Manning, five MVPs, I believe, or three or something is the most. And he far surpassing that. And yeah, it's just, you know, Christmas in the spotlight. Good flick, good times. Honestly, I'm sold. I think I'm going to do what she did. I'm going to watch it.

And I'm going to listen to Benchmas because my interest is peaked now. She would probably want to watch it again, you know, given how much you're hyping it up. So there you go. It's fun from a football perspective. You can see that they filmed it in Canada because all the ends zones are like ginormous. When they do the aerial shot of the football stadium, it's just a Yankee Stadium, but they've like CGIed a different name on it.

It just keeps getting better. All right. I'm in. I'm going to watch that. Maybe I'll give my review next time we're on. Who knows. But love it. Love it.

Today we are doing the headlines. And let's just start with number one, which is the state of the Detroit Lions. This is a team that has been one of the best teams in the NFL, pretty much wire to wire this season, but the injuries are piling up. They lose David Montgomery, the running back. They lose cornerback, Carlton Davis. They lose defensive tackle, Aleem McNeil, who is like first team all hipster, by the way. I mean, everybody who has access to the All-22 loves Al-McNehneal. And rightfully so, he's not one of the fraudulent like hipster picks. He is a legit player and has been very good for them, but he's out as well. And they, of course, have already lost Aiden Hutchinson.

So Nora, I guess the question for you is, what is your level of panic? Are they doomed? Is this just a season where they got bad luck at the wrong time? Are people overreacting? How do you feel about this recent rash of injuries and what they mean for the Lion's Super Bowl chances? I mean, I'm almost worried we're like underselling this because here's the deal. They already had a league high 18 players on injured reserve. 13 of those players play defense.

It's, you know, there's always some teams get super injured. It's when, when you stack the injuries in one area of the team, that is when things become really problematic, even for good teams. I still believe the lions are a good team. But if, if the question is sort of like, how much are these injuries going to get in the way of them getting to a Super Bowl? The way that I feel is like, it really makes the one seed all that much more. more important.

Yes. Because I believe they can. I believe they can still do it. But when we're talking about the difference between Jared Gough and this offense, which is proven that they can score a lot of points. But when we're talking about them having to win three games in a row, potentially on the road, who knows what that environment is like, who knows where it is, who knows what the weather is, particularly if we're talking about, you know, Philadelphia and January.

And we're talking about that within a context where you're expecting for the Lions to be able to do that. They have to be, their offense has to be scoring in the 30s every week because that's what it's been looking like recently. And they're going to have to be doing that while playing in the sort of negative game script situation that tends to give teams that play this style of run first offense. trouble. I don't want to say they can't do it, but I would have a hard time feeling confident about it. Give them a buy. Take one of those games out of the equation. It starts to, you know, I think this offense is going to put up 25 plus in the area of 30 points more often than it's not, right? Like we've seen them. They're still, you know, you lose David Montgomery. That's a tough blow. that's among these injuries.

But I think you start to feel good about that when it's two games. And so to me, they can still, you know, the path to the Super Bowl is still very much open. It's an unfortunate new rash of injuries when they already had one of the most injured teams in the NFL. But I do think that if there is anything that they can possibly do to make sure they secure that one seed, I feel a lot better about that scenario in terms of how they can overcome these injuries than if they can't. Yeah, I'm in a similar spot. I mean, I think that their offense is so good. They probably have the best offense in the NFC. The Packers are very good,

but I don't know that there's an offense. I trust more than the Lions. And you mentioned all those injuries and you pointed out rightfully that a lot of them are on defense. So like, the offense should still be awesome. Like David Montgomery, yes, that hurts, but it's not Penae Sewell. It's not Jared golf. It's not Amonra St. Brown. Like, I don't think it's one of the three most indispensable guys on their offense. And by the way, you spend a first round pick on Jemir Gibbs, who's awesome. So it's not like you have no one behind David Montgomery. So I think this offense is going to show up in a big way and play really well.

Even in that game, you know, last week against the bills, they're playing from behind and they score four touchdowns on their final four possessions. And you look at it, it's like a 96th percentile game for any offense in the NFL this season. So if you're a Lions fan, like hold on to that. You still have that, and that is probably still the most important thing to win football games is offensive efficiency, and they've still got that. So I'm with you. Like right now, according to the New York Times Playoff Simulator, they've got a 49% chance to get that first round by. The Eagles have a 39% chance, and the Vikings have a 13% chance.

So lions go to Chicago at San Francisco in week 17, and then home against the Vikings. they got to hold on to that one seat. I really think they've got a great shot if they hold on to, if they hold on to the one seat, if you told me right now, they're going to get the buy and play at home, I would be given like a Dan Campbell like speech. Like this team is not dead.

They're going and he kind of did that on local radio today. But I mean, I covered an Eagles team in 2017 that lost its starting quarterback, starting left tackle, who was one of their best players, starting middle linebacker. Now that was a weird season. Granted,

but like the lesson I learned from that, it's like any team that gets that buy and is playing at home, regardless of the injuries, is going to have a chance. It's that big of an advantage. So they've got a lot to figure out defensively. But again, if you get the buy, you get the extra week, all right, how do we want to play? Who do we want to play? What do we need to do offensively?

Figure out all those things. I'm definitely not counting this team out just yet. I would just say that they have made the schematic adjustment defensively already, right? Like we've seen them adopt this incredible. blitz-heavy style. They tried to win that way in the game against the Packers. That proved difficult.

Changed the strategy of quite a bit against Buffalo, tried to pull back on some of the blitzing. Again, there's just too many matchups even still for a good offense with a good quarterback like Buffalo to be able to exploit.

And I do think, like, just to sober us a little, it is a reminder that that's what you're going to get basically every week in the playoffs. And so we are talking about you're going to need to score 30 in order to survive in advance. And again, as you said, and I believe too, the lions are capable of that. But yeah, I like it a lot better when you just need to do it twice in a row at home, then you need to do it three times in a row and including going on the road.

Yeah, a lot riding on their last three weeks here. But I don't know if they've been a resilient group. it would not shock me to see Dan Campbell standing on a riser, given some speech after the NFC championship game about how resilient they are and how much they overcame and now they're going to New Orleans for the Super Bowl. I can like just envision it in my head there. All right, that was headline number one. Headline number two, nor we go to the IFC. Patrick Mahomes has a high ankle sprain, the dreaded high ankle sprain. He was a full participant in Tuesday's practice. They're already practicing because they play the Texans on Saturday. So they're

practice window has already started. They've got this weird stretch here where they play two games in five days. They go to Pittsburgh on Christmas. So it's Texans on Saturday, Steelers on Wednesday. How does this injury affect your view of a Chief's team that's already had, again, a very strange season where they're the one seed in the AFC, but most people looking at it, go, this does not look like the Chiefs teams of the past. I don't tell you how I feel about it in my gut is like he's fine.

It doesn't change how I feel at all. Because you know what happened to those chiefs teams in the past? Patrick Mahomes hurt his ankle. He always hurts his ankle. He's always rolling up on his ankle and they're always totally fine. I don't want to totally minimize this because I think given how we've seen them win these close games, which is effectively by succeeding in the exact situational moments when they need to. Winning on late downs, a lot of that has to do with Mahomes as a scrambler and

just with his threat as a scrambler. Given that and given their tackle situation and the amount of pressure that you have to figure he's going to be facing, especially when they're going against good defenses, a less mobile Patrick Mahomes, I think is like a huge deal to this team. Yeah, I agree. I'm just telling you that how I feel in my gut is like, get out of here with this stuff. Like, we've done this before. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like I look at it just, yeah, you're trying to analyze it. And it's like if there were ever a season where the ankle would be a huge deal for them,

this would be the season. This would absolutely be it. With the way their offensive tackles are playing here. So I want to, you know, get there and say it is a big deal. And I do think that. Now, I'm not going to be surprised, like you said, if he comes out on Saturday and he's just, you know, I do love one of the underrated things I love in sports is when like the great player has to play through an injury and does something awesome.

That, I mean, that is always fun to watch. And that's absolutely in play here. And you mentioned it. 2022, he had the ankle injury. I think he suffered in the divisional round. Same injury. I think he told reporters in Casey today that this one's actually not as severe. And that one, he played in the divisional round.

He played in the NFC championship. And then he lit the Eagles on fire in the Super Bowl and was hoisting the Lombardi at the end of that run. So you're right to think. All right, we've seen this before, and he's come through. My antennae is up a little bit. You know, it's like, this is a different chief's team. And also, Nora, this is very interesting to me about how they handle this,

because this Texan's team is first in defensive DVOA right now. This is the best defense in the NFL right now, which has awesome edge rushers, by the way, in DeNeil Hunter and Will Anderson. And they play with like a violence that is, now sometimes it gets them in trouble. that with Trevor Lawrence, but the legal stuff that they do, like they hit hard, they are aggressive, they get after you. This is not a passive group. And so if you're the chiefs, I wonder how you weigh this because if you win, if you beat the Texans and you beat the Steelers on Christmas, you don't have to play Mahomes again until the divisional round. You will have the one seed

locked up. So it's this weird situation where if you play him on December 25th, he actually, and you win those two games, he wouldn't have to play. again until January 18th. You're talking about something like a 25 day break in between games for a guy with an injured ankle. So do you do that or do you say, well, we don't want to rush him out there on Saturday against the Texans because he's not ready yet. We play again Wednesday and we're going up against a good defense. So do we get Carson Wentz on Saturday? So it's a tricky one. I don't have a great answer about like this is exactly what they should do. There's a lot of factors in play

here. Here's what I would say is, I I think it sounds like with you in that I just read these reports and it's, I'm saying it's not as bad as the one from Jacksonville two years ago. It's, you know, he's a full participant in practice, things trending toward. He would be available if they want him to be. And that to me, it just smells like he's going to be okay. They'll put a little extra tape on it. He'll be out there.

As you said, there's a lot to play for if they were able to win those two. games and he could rest for that long. That's sort of easy for me to say, obviously, just reading the tea leaves of the insider reports and all of that. If they know something I don't and it is actually potentially a serious injury, I do think they have to sit him. I do think they can't take chances with that because sure, it would be really nice to have the time off.

But you know what? This hasn't been that great of a team this year. Like despite the record, they haven't put themselves in a situation to feel confident enough about the ways that they can win where I think there is any path for this team without a superhero Mahomes. So if there is a question between like jeopardizing his health and not doing it in advance of like something that could happen a couple weeks from now, I just, I do not think that you can take that chance. I think hopefully they are not in that situation. But if that's the dynamic, I do think they have to air on the side of like, you can't mess around with this guy because this is the person who has gotten you out of all of the bad situations you've played yourself into the season.

Yeah. Like you said, all signs. He says he's expecting to play barring something unforeseen. If he wakes up one day and isn't feeling good or something, maybe they'll make a change. Obviously, if he suffers a hit early in that game, do they go to Carson wins then? but there is some drama, some more drama around this chiefs team because you lose that game to the Texans on Saturday and the bills win. And now all of a sudden it's just a one game difference going into the last two.

And the last thing you want if you're the chiefs is to lose that one seed like we just mentioned with the lions. And now all of a sudden you don't have that by. You don't get the extra rest for his ankle. And you're going to have to go on the road potentially in the AFC champion. Yeah, you're playing on the road. You're potentially playing on a frozen field in Buffalo and the cleats don't plant to very well and here comes the pass rush and, you know, I think they're fine because I think this

isn't that big of a deal. If this is a big deal, it's an even bigger deal if that makes any sense whatsoever. Yeah, the gut says five days from now, they've got the one seed locked up. And we're talking about how Mahomes gets 25 days off in between games to rest that ankle before they have to play a home game in the divisional round against someone. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. We got three more to get to here. A little Kirk Cousins, a little Dallas Cowboys, and a little NFC West. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. So we are recording this Tuesday night, Nora, this is one that by the time people listen to on Wednesday,

maybe we have a little resolution here because the topic is, how does the Kirk Cousins experiment end? So the Falcons beat the Raiders in Monday night, which that game probably won the award for win that felt most like a loss this year. I mean, Kurt Cousins goes 11 for 17 for 112 yards and three snacks. Snacks. Three sacks. Maybe he had some snacks after the game to make him feel better. Hopefully he did.

Yeah, that would be nice. We all like snacks. Three sacks in that game. This thing is snowballing. He's playing worse and worse. It's getting like more depressing to just watch their interviews. And right before we came on to record this, Josh Kendall of the Athletic tweeted out.

Rahim Morris did not answer the is Kirk Cousin still your starting quarterback question. Morris said, quote, we just got back. We still have to go through that process. All those things will happen over the course of the week. We didn't play well enough at the quarterback position. What is your read on this situation? They are seven and seven. They still have a chance to make the playoffs, not a great chance, but still have a chance.

Do you think we see Michael Pennix, Jr.? or do you think they stick with cousins here? They cannot keep playing him. I agree. They cannot keep playing Kirk Cousins. I mean, they won on Monday. And on some level, that feels good. But he had a worse game by success rate, by EPA,

than he did in the zero touchdown four interception game against the Chargers. This would be a situation, I think, where you would have to bench your starter, even if you didn't have a top 10 pick waiting on the bench behind him. And lo and behold, the Chargers, and you know what? Look, like, egg on my face. I thought that was a ridiculous pick and made no sense. And here I am advocating for them to make a move.

But you have a young quarterback who you've invested a lot in and a chance to see what he's got. And it probably will make you a better football team in the immediate. And that's not me saying, I think I know what it's going to look like with my Pinnix, I've got no idea. I just know it can't look a lot worse than this. He can't move. Like, he just can't move. I'm sure Kirk Cousins is still a mentally acute player at the quarterback position, but he

cannot move. And therefore, it just doesn't work. So I just would be shocked if they didn't make a move. I think they have a better chance at making the playoffs. If they go to Pennock, I think they have just more value to be. derived from seeing what that looks like. And I also just think that they're, you know, you start to get into that. Do you lose the locker room situation?

Because all of those other players have to know that he cannot move. Yeah. Players always know. Players see it. I feel like they've been pretty patient. This has not been a one week thing. And that, to me, that performance Monday night against the bad Raiders defense, that felt like the point where you're just, I don't understand how you can go

back to him. Like you said, teammates see it. Who knows how Michael Pennings Jr. has looked in practice, those kinds of things. But I'm with you. I mean, cousins went 11 for 17 for 112 yards and three sacks. Like that, that's the bar we need to clear here to have better quarterback play. So when I hear a coach say, you know, not commit to the, you know, starter in a Tuesday press conference like that, it almost always means that there is a change coming. And so they've got the job on the wall. Yeah, I mean, they got the Giants this week. I think it's time. Best case scenario, who knows?

They got like a 25% chance to make the playoffs. Maybe Panics comes in and it's like, man, quarterback was a big problem. Like, there's a case that the other stuff on offense really does work. He's pushing the ball downfield. He's making some plays, you know, with his legs, whatever the case may be. And so there's a chance that- He wants to play for him, feels re-energized.

Everybody feels a boost of energy. Right now it's so dark. It's so grim. Maybe you make a playoff push. And then it's like, all right, the Michael Pennings Jr. era is here. And worst case, he struggles, but he gets some reps. And it's like, who cares? Cousins was lousy anyway. By the way, no egg on your face, Laura. They pay, if they didn't pay the guy $90 million, no one would have been, you know, he would have been making fun of the Michael Penix Jr.

You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're Rachel. Thank you for that. They signed him to $90 million guaranteed. And then six weeks later drafted Michael Pennix Jr. in the top. That was the issue. The issue, You can always take a shot on a quarterback when you don't have a quarterback. We've talked about that before. That part is fine. It was the previous move. That was weird. So I don't know.

I have a feeling that as the week goes on, this could become one of the bigger stories in the NFL that Pennix is getting a shot here in week 16. All right. Two more to get to here. Number four. Jerry Jones. Always good for a little news rundown. Jerry Jones continues to hint at bringing back Mike McCarthy. Now, I've gotten a lot of things wrong.

One thing I did say a month or so ago, I said, I don't know. I think he might just bring back Mike McCarthy. He tells Dallas Radio today on Mike McCarthy and Mike Zimmer, I give them both high grades this year. So again, I can envision a scenario where they say, you know what, we had bad injury luck. Dak likes Mike McCarthy. He's been pretty outspoken that he wants him back. I don't think Jerry has a guy out there who he's like, I want this. guy as my next coach. If Sean Payton were available or something, then it might be a different

story. I don't know that that guy exists in this cycle. And so I'm buying it that Mike McCarthy is going to return as the Cowboys head coach. What do you think? I am too. I mean, just, you know, with I guess the caveat with it's not a normal situation because he wouldn't actually need to be fired. It's just an expiring contract. And so maybe, maybe some of the praise sets up a situation where they could mutually go in a different direction and it just wouldn't feel bad because I do think we know that it feels very bad to Jerry to fire the coaches that he's invested in. But this is just, I mean, sometimes, like, it says a lot about where, what a person wants to do

with how far they're willing to go to justify what they're doing. And this argument that McCarthy's done an impressive job. this season because, you know, they've kept playing and kept playing hard and started winning some games in this last stretch where they've gone three and one. Before that, they were three and seven. That was, you know, they've turned it around after that five game losing streak in the middle of the year. I think that's what Jerry's sort of making this argument based on.

Those teams, they've beaten the Panthers, they've beaten the Giants, and they've beaten the commanders. and then they lost to the Bengals is the other game. So they've beaten teams that have a combined, or they've gone three and one against teams that have a combined record of 20 and 36. And so if Jerry Jones is willing to look at that and go, man, they're fighting hard for Mike McCarthy,

then yeah, like, I agree with you. It just feels like he's going to ask him to stick around because, you know, either you've deluded yourself into thinking that that's true or you want to do this so badly that you're, like, creating a context for it. So, oh, Jerry. That's sort of how I feel about this. It's just like, oh, Jerry. Another year, Mike McCarthy, it looks like, we'll say, who knows, anything could happen

at the end of the season. I'm kind of buying what are you saying. Now, I do have to get your opinion on one other Jerry Jones matter. I don't know if you saw this quote via John Machota of the athletic. Now, I'm a vegetarian, so I can't comment on this. Nora, but Cowboys owner Jerry Jones on 105 for the fan, when asked if he's ever had raccoon, after it was recently mentioned by Panthers wide receiver Xavier Leggett, says, quote, I've eaten a lot of raccoon.

The answer is yes. It's not uncommon at all. One of my favorites is squirrel. It's wonderful. We all had our favorite pieces. My mom and I would even ask for the brain of the squirrel. Delicious. Seriously.

All right. Educate me here. Have you had raccoon? Have you had squirrel? Is this normal? We don't want to judge. I don't know what people do in different cultures. I was not raised on either animal here. But what is your analysis of this situation? Okay. No. First of all. Just asking, I don't know. You know, you've traveled the world. I don't know. You might have tried something like that. I don't know where that's served. There's got to be somewhere. I have not partaken. Oh, okay. I have not partaken. I also do want to point out that raccoon and squirrel are not the same thing. Yeah, that's true. At least, you know, I guess I shouldn't be talking like I'm an expert here.

But to my knowledge, a raccoon and a squirrel aren't, don't raccoons have like a lot of rabies? I repeat my earlier statement. Oh, Jerry. Yeah, there you go. All right. So we have no analysis. on the raccoon and squirrel delicacies, but Jerry given us content once again.

Listen, you might not make the playoffs, but you make the content playoffs, Jerry. All right, you've made the show many a time, and you are still relevant, which is all that you really want. All right, last topic. Gino Smith to play Sunday after injuring his knee, expected to play.

Not definite, but this is via ESPN's Brady Henderson. Mike McDonald said he's, he's optimistic that Gino Smith will play on Sunday. Gino Smith injured his knee Sunday night against the Green Bay Packers as they lost that game and lost control of the NFC West. The NFC West is now one of the few undecided divisions. Rams are at 72% to win the division. Seahawks at 21% Cardinals at 7%.

Where are you, Nora, with this Seahawks team given the Gino injury and the state of the NFC West? I mean, it's good news that he's in position to at least probably play. I do think now this is the Rams to lose because the games they have left, they've got the Jets, the Cardinals, and the Seahawks. And then Seattle, Vikings Bears Rams, which to me, you know, that's a tougher road. So once it is Los Angeles is to lose and they're not the ones dealing with the quarterback injury and they have an easier remaining schedule. I would say, I think they are in a much better position to maintain this hold on the West.

That said, you know, there's a serious possibility. This comes down to that final game, which could be a really interesting one. Rams also have the tiebreaker because they won earlier in the season. So another thing in going in their favor. So I would say lean Rams, but maybe maybe the take here is that this is setting up for a really interesting week 18 game. That's how I still feel. I still feel like Sunday night,

week 18, Seahawks hit Rams for the division is how this thing's going to end. But maybe I'm just being stubborn with the Seahawks. You're right. I mean, Seahawks injured Gino against the Brian Flores defense

and the Minnesota Vikings this week is not going to be easy. You know, I felt like when they had that stretch coming up, Packers and Vikings, it felt like they had to get one of those games. They lose to the Packers.

Now, are they going to be able to beat the Vikings here? But I still don't trust anybody, you know, even this Rams team. Like, their best game is great. I don't think they can get there every week. I think there's going to be a surprise for them in one of these weeks ahead, whether it's this week against the Jets or next week against the Cardinals. So I think we're going to still have some twists and turns, and that one's going to come down to week 18 in Los Angeles.

So there you go. Those were the five newsy headlines. from this week again. I'm telling you. I have a feeling by the time you list, some of you listen to this, Michael Pennix Jr. will be the starter for the Atlanta Falcons. We'll see if anything else changes here. All right, you can listen to Nora Princiata, we mentioned on the binge miss feed. I mean, she's easy, you can listen to her everywhere, but I got to plug that one because like I said, that was playing in my house earlier today. Nora, where you, yeah, do you need to tell anybody else where else they can hear you or check out your work this week?

Doing a lot of ringer dish lately. So as usual, ringer.com, every single album, Ringer NFL feed right here. But also, binge miss and we're obsessed. The fabulous Jody Walker has had me on a few times lately. So those have been really fun pods. Listen, now with the new ringer.com, you just type in Nora Princiati at the top,

go to her page literally everything she does in one spot. You can find right there. Thank you. You know, the creator page. Amazing. Fantastic. All right. Check out all Nora's work. We will talk to her soon. We'll take a break here. We'll come back. We'll bring on Stephen Ruiz for a little QB Corner. All right. We are back on the Ringer NFL show. We welcome in Stephen Ruiz. Ruiz. You keep coming up with good themed segments for QB Corner. I don't know if you have like how many more you have in you. But explain to the people what you got this week. I don't have many more in me. I honestly struggled with this one. It took me a couple hours. I thought it was good.

We're going to do a little off-season look ahead at the possible QB market. We're going to look at four quarterbacks like we usually do, but we're going to look at four quarterbacks that could slash maybe should be available next off season. I don't think we need to hide them either. I'll just go off and list them. Sam Darnold, Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson. And then I'm going to throw Kirk Cousins in there after what we heard from Rahim Morris today where he didn't say he was benching Kirk Cousins, but he gave us the dread it.

Oh, we have to review the tape. We're going to review everything and we'll see what happens from there. And usually the writing's on the wall from there and the quarterback eventually gets bench. And honestly, truth be told, I had to turn off the Kirk Cousins film in the middle of it this week. I couldn't do it. I was like, what am I doing here? I'm wasting my time. This isn't helping me at all.

I don't need to watch this guy struggle through this. And like, I think the Kirk Cousins you're signing next year is hopefully not the Kirk Cousins we're seeing on tape right now. But yeah, out of those four guys, he would be the last person on my list, actually, which kind of surprised me if you would have asked me this. A couple months ago, I think I would have went with Aaron Rogers, but no, I'm going to go with Kirk. So if you want to start there, we could start with Kirk Cousins. Yeah. Yeah, Nora and I actually just talked about it.

And I had the same thing you did. I was like, by the time you listened to this, Michael Pennix, Jr. will probably have been named the starter for the Falcons and rightfully so. So, all right, let's start with Cousins. So, yeah, your kind of exercise is sort of ranking if you're a QB needy team next year, who is the guy you would want the least and who is the guy you would want the most out of these four. And obviously there's different contexts, money depends on money and all that stuff.

But we're just saying generally, theoretically speaking, based on what we've seen so far. And so you've got, let's just count it, you know, go from four and then on up. So you've got Kirk Cousins at number four. So why do you, you just mentioned maybe the guy we see next year is not as bad as the guy we see this year. So why is he still number four for you? Well, one, you have to have a financial commitment to. You have to make a financial commitment to them if you're going to because you're going to have to trade for him. The Falcons aren't really going to be able to cut them.

If they cut them before June 1st, that's going to actually lose them $25 million against the cat rather than saving them any money. But if they're able to find a sucker, I don't know a better word to call it, who will pay Kirk Cousins around $30 million next year, they can save a decent amount of money. They still will take on a cap hit around $25 million, but that's a lot more palatable than what they're currently on track to pay Kirk Cousins next year. But no, the reason why I kind of lost faith is because, and this is something we've been talking about all year, he just kind of lost his superpower. And his superpower used to be, he wasn't afraid to turn his back to the defense. He would get under center, run the play action and follow the system. And now, I think we're seeing him in his late era, Peyton Manning era. Like, he's kind of guessing, doing guesswork, you know, where Peyton Manning kind of bridged, he kind of crossed over the line of anticipation to doing guesswork.

and we saw it kind of manifests itself with an increase in turnovers. I think that's what we're seeing with Kirk Cousins. This last game, I mean, the system stuff wasn't working when he had to create, quote unquote. I don't think you're actually relying on him to create anything. But in the pocket, he just wasn't capable of doing it. We're seeing a decline in his arm talent.

He didn't have a lot of arm talent to begin with. I just don't think, if you're looking for that veteran system guy, the guy that's going to max out your supporting cast, I honestly would go with Rogers over him, and we'll get to Rogers later, but I just don't see the upside of Kirk Cousins right now. I can't point to one strength in his game that you could build an offense around. And that wasn't true, like four months ago, in theory, Kirk Cousins this year would have been a guy that not only got the most out of this young Falcon supporting cast,

but I think he would have elevated in some ways because of his ability to run this scheme that he's being put in the McVeigh-Slan scheme, and that just hasn't happened. So the case for Cousins would be it has a. hasn't been a complete disaster like this the entire season. Like he has had games or stretches or pockets of play this season. Those two games against the bucks come to mind where he's looked like a guy who is still playing pretty, not like an elite quarterback, but a guy who basically what you're describing, a guy who if there's nice pieces around him, he can still deliver the football with accuracy, even though it's not the same style of offense that we've seen in the past. So that would

kind of be the case. You know, overall, you look at the metrics. He's middle of the road. He hasn't been like one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL when you look at the whole body of work. So can you talk yourself into, hey, this is one year off the Achilles. And next year, he's going to get some, not all of it, but he's going to get some of the mobility back and some of the pockets we saw this year. There's going to be more of those than we're seeing right now where it looks like a complete disaster. Now, that might be a hard thing to talk yourself into.

He's entering his age 37 season. And so this is just naturally when quarterbacks are losing their physical attributes. And he didn't have, you know, that was never the thing that made him the quarterback. He was either. So when those start to go, it can look really, really ugly in a game like we saw on Monday night. So I actually had him number three on my list. I had Rogers below him. Not that I feel that strongly about it, but that would be my case for putting Kurt Cousins at 3.

You're going to lose your mind when you hear where I have Aaron Rogers on this list. And maybe it's recent he buys because I did just watch him cut up the Jaguars defense, you know, that's not the highest bar for performance. But yeah, we'll get to him later. The person I have directly above him who's kind of going through a similar transformation is Russell Wilson. And the comment I'm about to make has nothing to do with Russell Wilson's weight. But my comp for him is kind of like Fat Elvis in Las Vegas doing the residency. Like he could still do some of the hits.

But, you know, it's a worse version of it. And he's kind of sweating a lot. It doesn't look as good. He can't do the dance moves anymore. But yeah, watching, especially against the Eagles, I think you saw in this game in particular that he's kind of lost that like fast twitch element to his game. Like it's not so much like the moonballs. Like we've talked about the moonballs all season. He could still throw those.

And we always like when we talked about Russ's arm talent, his ability to throw the football, that's always what we used to point to. But like he's lost his fastball. And like I don't mean that in like the puny way. I mean like he can't throw the line drive throws with accuracy. and there's sometimes when that ball's in the air for a long time. Like it throws a quick out, quote unquote, to the perimeter. And it's just in the air for way too long. Those are dangerous throws.

And those are the throws where when you see like a quarterback at wash, that's usually where we see it go first. Like those quick outs become really hard and they turn into pick sixes more often. Now that hasn't happened with Russ, which is why I think he's not only a better fit for whatever QB and 80 team we're talking about in theory than Kirk Cousins. But I honestly think he's like a great fit for the. what the Steelers are doing right now. Because, like, as much as we talked about Russ,

he has three turnover-worthy plays on the season so far and 15 big-time throws. Like, that's what the Steelers needed. That was the formula we talked about. And for all his other faults, and there's still plenty of faults in his game right now, he's doing that. And I think he's playing the type of football

that Mike Tomlin can clearly win with and this defense can clearly win with. And I don't know if they're going to be able to find another guy like that in a pinch in the offseason. That's interesting. I sort of, I wrote down physically, he looks pretty good to me. So I didn't, I feel like that game, you know, you have no, uh, George.

I know you weren't saying this, but just, you had no George Pickens. That was just like, it just felt like they had no chance. Like I didn't watch that and think, oh, man, he's missing, open receivers, whether he's, he's leaving plays on the field or throwing in accurately. It was just like, you're rewinding every play. And you're just like, there is nothing here. They're throwing a Calvin Austin and Fangio's kind of got them in a blender a little bit. So I feel like the arm at various times this season, like has looked pretty good.

You might be right that it's fading a little bit now. Even in this game against the Eagles, he had a couple scrambles. He's not going to be 2013 Russ or whatever it is, but he can still make you, like, pick you up a couple first downs with his legs. So I actually had him at number two. And I do agree with you. I think some of these teams, like, when they add one of these quarterbacks, it's not like you're committing to the guy.

Like, it's not, I think we always make the mistake of like either or. Like it is an and situation for a team like the Steelers. Like bring Russell Wilson. You can bring Russell Wilson back on a one year deal probably and then try to find some. Is there somebody on day two who kind of peaks your interest in the draft that you can bring in? Like you got to throw a lot of darts.

That's the only way to do it unless you have a top five, a top 10 pick. There's really no other great way to get a quarterback unless you want to wait for someone to be unhappy or wait to take a flyer on a Rogers or our cousins. But we've seen how those things have worked out for them. Now sometimes that turns into Stafford. and it ends up working really well, but those opportunities are tough to count on. So I think a team like the Steelers,

they've got to kind of just take a lot of bites at the apple and keep going and going and hopefully at some point find kind of that long-term fit. And they're just like too good to get a quarterback in the draft right now. And this isn't like a draft where you're going to find a blue chip prospect necessarily. And with Tomlin, it's always going to be that way.

I mean, they've had terrible teams that they could have, you know, that would have netted them a top five pick with a different coach probably. But sorry, it's not. We have literally like two decades of evidence that it's not going to happen with it. And it's not like it's just all smoking mirrors. Like there is some good production here. They have good players.

He has the same EPA per dropback as Sam Darnold this year. Like the big difference is in success rate and we've talked about the boomer bust nature of the Steelers' offense. And part of that is Russ and how he plays now. But part of that is just the Steelers offense and how it's built and the pieces that they have. You can't really have an offense where you're dinking. and Duncan down the field. Like, obviously the Vikings don't really have that either, but they have Justin Jefferson and they have Jordan Addison and they have PJ.

And they have Kevin O'Connell drawing up these plays where Darnold is, I think the thing that's benefited him the most, and we can just go on to him because he's my second guy on this list. And I'll explain why I have Rogers over him. I don't know if Rogers is necessarily a better, I don't know if he's a better thrower of the football right now, but we'll get to why I have Rogers ahead of him later. but Sam Darnold is getting to throw into in rhythm a lot. Like we're not seeing a lot of plays where he has to reset in the pocket and then find

a guy downfield. Usually he's like turning, hitting his back foot, hitting the back of his drop and the ball's coming out. I think that's been a feature of Kevin O'Connell's offense, even going back to Kirk Cousins, that would happen. So we've now seen it with two different quarterbacks. But I think like the fit thing with Darnold, like I think in this Vikings offense, we're seeing the best parts of his game, which have always been, like, he can throw. He has a great arm,

and he can throw on the move. Like, he can move around and he can run around. I think if you're playing behind a great offensive line, like your accuracy problems, which has been a problem for him in the past, and it's still kind of a problem. Like, he even saw it in this game. He sailed a couple throws against the bears that were there. That's not going to really show up when you're not getting pressured, and the guys are wide open. And then, like, the decision-making thing, I know the interception numbers have, he hasn't really been punished for it, but he's, like, one of five quarterbacks in PFF's grading, like in the top 15 of their grading, who has more turnover worthy plays than big time throws.

Like, it is an issue with them. It's still been an issue even in this ideal, in these ideal circumstances. But the real reason why I would have him below Rogers is I think if you're signing Darnold, you're signing on to two to three years of Darnold realistically, with assuming he gets like a Baker-Mayfield contract. And the idea of signing on for three years of Sam Darnold and hitching your wagon to him for the next two to three years. Just it doesn't compute in my brain,

especially if you don't have Kevin O'Connell, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, and an offensive line and a scheme that's making things easier on you in the pocket. Yeah, I wasn't taking into account the sort of finances of it when I did my full disclosure here. So you're right.

I mean, listen, I have been like on the record with Donald before the season. I thought this was going to be a disaster. I am surprised at the way he's played this year, but I will give him credit he's played better than I thought he was. going to play. But your point can't be overstated that if he goes to another team, the situation is almost 100% going to be way worse. He's not going to have Kevin O'Connell. He's not going to have

these offensive tackles. He's not going to have Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison. So like, I'm looking at this season and maybe it's unfair because he's only 27 years old. I almost look at this as the ceiling. Like they're nine, they've gone all the way up to ninth and passing DVOA. Like they were, you know, 14th or 15th a few weeks ago and they continue to rise up there. So the past. The passing game has been better than it was for most of the season. I got young, some Vikings fans were mad at me. I wrote on the ringer.com today that I just, in my head, I cannot get to the point where I see this team with Sam Darnold winning three

playoff games on the road, three playoff games on the road and getting to the Super Bowl. I said, if they do, I'll print out my column on a t-shirt and walk around New Orleans with it. And that's not me being a hater. Like, if it happens, I'll be like, all right. You didn't go with the down in the column that people go with? No, I'm not eating the column. I'll put it on a t-shirt. That's as far as I went.

But yeah, I'm almost like, if I'm another team or I was advising another team, I don't, I would not be comfortable making a big commitment to him given the past body of work and the situation he's in right now. But again, he's only 27. So there is a chance. He has like a nice three, four year run where if you have good pieces around him, he plays one. And I think like he has the tape and he has the throws on his tape certainly that you could like cherry

pick. the cherry pick him this year. Like, you had to cherry pick him in the past from his jet tape just because of the situation he's in and Kevin O'Connell's dialing them up more often. But this is the best his turnover luck is ever going to be. I think he's going to start, like, if you put him in a different scenario, his turnover luck's going to get punished more. They were going to see more inaccuracy.

He's not going to throw in rhythm as much. And then the other part of this is, like, he can look like one of these like dual threat quarterbacks that we talk about, like these new age guys who could throw on the run and they have the arm strength to do all that. But to me, he's more of like. a survivor in those like out of structure situations, whereas like a guy like Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen are creators, like they're in control of the situation. They're not just like, you know, trying to break out of a sack and trying to survive and just get a throw

off. Like they're in complete control and they're doing it for a reason. They do it when they want to, not when they're forced to. And I think Darnold is different from them in that regard. And honestly, I think that's how we should start separating these like guys that create a structure. Like a guy like Brock Purdy, I would put in the survivor, not creator mold, but he's a lot. obviously a guy who's productive out of structure. And Sam Darnold fits that for me. But the reason, and I'm going to put Aaron Rogers ahead of him. And I think Aaron Rogers is the best quarterback that's going to be on the market.

I wouldn't want him based on everything that comes with him and the baggage that comes with him. But I do think he would be a great fit in one spot in particular. And it might not make sense when you say it right off the bat. But I think the more you think about it, it makes sense. I want to see Kyle Shanahan go get him. Oh, my gosh. I want to see Kyle Shanahan.

It would be a disaster. Why? Why? That's what I want to hear. Okay, so first of all, the big thing is you want nothing to do with everything that comes along with Aaron Rogers. I mean, who wants to sign up for that at this point? You're signing up for the coaches on the staff. You're signing up for teammates. He's not going to go in there and be like, yes, let's show me your scheme. Let's go.

Let's do it. Oh, I love learning this at 42 years old. You're signing up for the drama as well. And again, he's entering his age 42 season. I would want nothing to do with him. I don't think he's better than Brock Purdy right now. I know we're going to disagree with that. I just flat out do not think he's a better player than Brock Purdy is right now.

And if I'm projecting to next year, given their ages, I don't think he would be a better player than Brock Purdy next year. I'll just say this. PFF thinks he's been a better player than Brock Purdy this year. Who cares about PFF? I do agree with this. I do agree with this. I only use it when it fits my agenda.

But he's been a top 10 quarterback according to them. And I do think when you watch the table. Like, he's not that bad. I know the results are bad, and it's funny to, like, post like, oh, he has the same record as Zach Wilson, and they're scoring the same amount of points. But when you watch the film, you're like, all right, man, he's not an elevator anymore, but he is a guy that I think can get the most out of your system if it's a good system. The problem with the Jets is it's not a good system.

It was a bad system with Nathaniel Hackett, and that's partly Aaron Rogers' fault. Yes, but that's because of him. It's not wholly Aaron's fault. But I do think how Shanahan has the clout to be like, all right, Aaron, we're going to do some of the stuff you do. But we're going to mostly do the stuff I do. And I think they're what each other needs. Like, Aaron Rogers needs a good early down run game that he could trust. And Kyle Shanahan needs a quarterback, an adult quarterback,

and that's nothing to take away from Brock Purdy. He's just in his third year, a quarterback who can kind of, like, take care of things before the snap on third down. He could be his Matthew Stafford. And I think we've seen him kind of concede a little bit to Matt LaFleur, which who runs a similar offense. If you look up their playbooks, they're similar playbooks.

It took like two years. It took two years and the result was MVP seasons. And then he went to a new place and he didn't even want to do it again. And Jordan Love was way better right when he came along to. Yeah. No, I don't know. I think they have enough talent. I don't know.

I would go for it. Are you really going to go out with this roster if you're Kyle Shanahan with Purdy? I mean, yeah. I don't like I know, again, I know we disagree. I don't think Purdy was not the problem for them. This year, I think it was up and down. I think he, you know, there was certainly variance. He wasn't the problem, but he wasn't the solution.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Like, their offense until last week was a top 10 offense by most metrics. Like it wasn't, you know, that that was not their major problem. Again, I stand by. I think they've gotten more unlucky with injuries and special teams and close losses than anything else. So yes, I would be willing to kind of run it back with Purdy next season and see what you have around. I would not want 40, 42 year old. and Rogers play for Kyle Shanahan, who the guy is stressed out of his mind and like chasing this.

There's, no, I would bet against that very strongly that would work out. As an NFL thing? I mean, for team content, yes, I would 100% want to see it. If I were like part of the 49ers organization, I would be like, are you nuts? Now, to your point, they did call, though, at one point. So there was interest at one point. Remember, there was that whole thing when, you know, with LaFleur and Green Bay. So at one point, they were interested, but a lot's changed with Aaron Rogers, like in the last whatever, three to five years.

It's different than it was then. But, man, I think it would work. I think it would work. And I think you bring Aaron Rogers and guess who's getting less flack from fans after every loss, Kyle Shanahan. I think it takes some attention away from them. Now, I'm going to throw out another scenario. And I know this one's completely ridiculous and not going to happen, but it would just be funny to watch. And like, my mind can't even fathom what would happen.

Aaron Rogers in Pittsburgh under Mike Tomlin. Oh my gosh. Well, like that's one where... Which situation, which combination would work better, Kyle and Aaron are Aaron and Tomlin? I kind of think Aaron and Tomlin. I think Tomlin, like, Tomlin's one of his special qualities is probably knowing how to reach people or like... I mean, again, I always point to the Antonio Brown thing. Like we had no idea what Antonio Brown was like until after he left Pittsburgh.

So he found a way to make that work. And if you're talking about style of play like you were with Russell Wilson, it's kind of like I haven't looked up Aaron Rogers turnover worthy plays or anything. But just historically, this is a guy who is going to, you know, he's not going to turn the football over a lot. I do agree that the arm still looks fine. Like even early in the season, like when they weren't playing well, it was like he still had some of those wow throws where you're like, all right, he still got that. There's also a case that the Jets have kind of been unlucky this season and their defense has let them down more than their off. I mean, their offense is 18th in DVOA. We did podcasts in August where we said, hey, if their offense can get to mediocre, this is going to be a really good team. So that would be me making the argument, I would just want to.

There's just been too much, too much drama. I would want nothing to do with the guy, but it's pretty kind of interesting. 23 big time throws the 10 turnover worthy plays this year. Better ratio than Sam Darnold's best ratio on the market. Do you think Rogers is going to be in the league next year? Yes. I don't want to overstate the tape he put up against Jacksonville because it is Jacksonville and they don't have a pass rush and they have a secondary that doesn't know where the football is when it's in the air. But that was good tape. That was throwback tape he put up on Sunday. Like I recommend anyone go back and watch that. He made like at least like four throwback throws, including some that were dropped by Alan Lazzard, who would probably be, who's probably coming.

along with him wherever he goes. Yeah, he'd be with them. I think Devante would probably come with him. It would be so, yeah. You bring, you bring Devonte with you to San Francisco. You give IUC the Garrett Wilson treatment where he kind of becomes like the stepchild who doesn't get, you know, who gets like the second share of targets. It's, I don't know.

I think it would work, but Aaron Rogers still has something left in the take, is all I'm saying. And I think if I was a QB needy team, I would rather commit to one year of Aaron Rogers than three years of Sam Darnel is how I would put it. I wonder if there's going to be a team that wants to, I agree with you. If it was just the on field, then I think there would be a team. I don't know if there's going to be a team that wants to sign up for the Aaron Rogers experience. So this is it?

I think this might be it. I don't know. I mean, he, you know, he might choose to be it or he might understand that there might not be an opportunity. I just wonder with the way that has gone for the New York Jets and everything else, whether or anyone's going to want to sign up for that. Maybe they're well. Usually with the quarterback, like, just takes one team,

and there's going to be that one team, but I don't know. I think he would fit in with that locker room. I'm just going to say, Nick Bose is there because McCaffrey's there. I think he would fit in. That's all I'm saying. He's from that area. Thank you, Stephen Ruiz. You can read his quarterback rankings on the ringer.

com. Thank you to Nora Prince Yati as well. Troy Farkas, appreciate you producing additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna Romgo. I had Donald won, by the way, Vikings fan. Just let the record show. I had Donald won there on my list.

All right, we'll be back. Me, Ruiz, Deonté, we'll be previewing Week 16. Until then, everyone have a great week. We'll talk to you next time on the Ringer NFL show.