The Ringer NFL Show - The Kaepernick Workout and the Teams That Can (and Definitely Can’t) Win the Super Bowl | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: November 14, 2019

We make sense of Colin Kaepernick’s scheduled workout in Atlanta (0:50) before we get into the teams we feel can win the Super Bowl and the middle-tier teams we are sure will not (8:50). Then, a Take Shop on vetoing trades and 17-game seasons (24:20) before we preview the top three games of the week led by the Texans vs. the Ravens and preview 'Thursday Night Football' (33:20). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the NFL show is brought to you by State Farm. When you need a game plan for protection, state farm agents are here to help. Personalized service, agents are available to talk in person, over text, through the State Farm. So go with the one with coverage and agents you can count on. Find an agent in your neighborhood today. State Farm. Talk to an agent today. This is the Ringer NFL show. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark.

How are you doing, buddy? Doing great. Good weekend of football. Yeah, we're going to get into a discussion that we had in the preseason about the TV. teams that we think that we couldn't win the Super Bowl. And that list is probably shorter than it was in August. But it is definitely not 17 teams as it was. It is not 17 teams long. So we're going to get into that.

We're going to talk about some teams that maybe aren't going to make that list, what it means for them, all that stuff. Before we do that, though, let's talk about what was probably the biggest NFL news story of the week. And that is the, I guess, strange is the adjective I would use, kind of dialogue around this Colin Kaepernick workout that's happening in Atlanta. So maybe you can lay this out from me. And maybe you can explain this to me because I've been trying to wrap my mind around some of the details here and it's been difficult.

So what is your take on why this is happening? What the motivations behind it are? Just kind of lay it out for me. Well, there's a lot of leaks out there. And a lot of them are coming from the league office. And if you believe those, maybe the league wants to start the path towards Kaepernick rejoining the league. Having said that, you cannot trust anything that's happened because of all of the strange detainees. is surrounding this. They gave Kaepernick almost no notice, five days notice. They gave him

a non-negotiable time. They said it couldn't be on a Tuesday, which is when NFL teams typically work out players. It had to be on a Saturday when a lot of GMs or scouts are out doing college football. I think that's... Or should be. Or should be. But I do think, listen, if you're a team, there's a lot of teams have already said they're going to send somebody there. There's a lot of people in NFL buildings. And, you know, I don't know what the attendance will look like, but I don't think it's, you know, I think it'll be, teams will be well represented there. I think that the, the way the NFL has handled this has been very, very strange this week. They're going to have, I saw this leak today.

Do you know who's going to be running it? No. Joe Philbin. Wow. I mean, that's when you know, that's when you know things have gotten strange. That's what you know, things are serious. And said, we got, we won, we want Philbin. You know, I think that some of, if you read the tea leaves, you know, the story goes that a couple of,

of teams had asked the NFL league office what the status of Colin Kaepernick was, maybe signaling that there was some interest in bringing him in, maybe for a workout. This is not normal. This is the NFL does not arrange workouts for free agents that every team is invited to come to and then publicizes it

and then tells reporters about it on five days' notice and then doesn't give the player the opportunity to really have any say in any part of it. This is one of the strangest things. things I can remember when covering the league. Maybe this is to give a team a cover. Maybe there's a team or one, you know, two, three teams that says we want to bring in Kaepernick. And maybe this is sort of the, the first step towards that. I don't know. I don't know. My conspiracy hat is not on just yet, but whether this is sort of scripted or whatever. And then there's game teams can

sign them one day. I don't know. All I know is that if Colin Kaepernick gets back in the league, the league is better for it because he is a dynamic player who is better than most Most backup quarterbacks in this league, probably a good deal of starters if we are to go on the last time we saw Colin Kaepernick. And so if you care about the product, just the on-field product, you know, I saw Greg Roman was asked about it today. He said, you know, is Colin Kaepernick a quarterback in this league. And Greg Roman said his body of work speaks for itself. And it does. And so I think that if this gets Kaepernick back in the league, then maybe the weirdness is worth it.

but this is a very, very, very weird event in a very weird week. I feel similarly about it. I think that if it gets him back in and we end up kind of writing this wrong, way too little too late, but to some degree, okay, cool. I'm glad this worked out. I'm glad they did it. But I just don't understand the process of it all. I'm mostly just confused.

I don't think the NFL understands the process. It's just why you do it this way? Why mandate that it has to be on this day? Why have it on a Saturday? All the stuff you said, it just, it doesn't, seem like the exposure is as big as it could have been if they had just scheduled it differently, if they had given more notice. Everything if you want to take this seriously, take it seriously.

And I, again, they don't deserve any credit whatsoever. Nope. But, you know, if you want to kind of, okay, good for you to finally take one step in the right direction here. But it doesn't even seem like they're taking that step with any sort of conviction. And it just feels like the NFL always screws the stuff up in ways it doesn't have to. I mean, you want some little bit of goodwill as it relates to this, but you're not doing anything close to the legwork in order to earn that goodwill. It just there's so many things about this.

It seems like it could have been avoided. And I'm just so confused about why they did it this way. If you were going to give the NFL any credit this had to, the expiration date on doing this is November 2017. Yes. When he was clearly being pushed out of the league, he did not have a team at that point after having played obviously with the Niners in 2016. during that season in which he knelt. And if the NFL in the middle of the first season that he wasn't in league said, you know what, we got to step in and do something, that's where you give him credit.

You do not let him sit out for three years and then say, oh, geez, I just noticed this. Let's do a workout. I mean, this is, the NFL does not come off as the good guys here. And quite frankly, there will be no scenario in which they do. if Kaepernick signs, that's terrific for Kaepernick and the team that signs him. But this is not, there will be no, no hero narrative for anybody from the league side for with, with all of this that's transpired this week. And there shouldn't be, but it could have gone from, well, I guess that's a good idea or I guess good for you to what the hell are they doing? It could have been the former.

But again, they just somehow step on their own feet here and don't understand how to smoothly do something that. could be, even if they don't get a lot of credit for it or shouldn't get any credit for it, it's objectively a good thing if this works out, but they still can't even do that right. There's still some way for them to screw it up further by making it as convoluted as it's been. So let's tackle one thing quickly. If we take this to face value and there will be scouts there, there will be team executives there, is there a team that jumps out in your mind that will, you know, the reports have been for years that Colin Kaepernick has been.

training every day. He'll be in shape. If he looks good in there, even if he, you know, if he looks like Colin Kaepernick in that workout, who is the team that you think, okay, they could bring him in right now? I mean, I think that this is an easy answer because there's been a history there and we just have seen the types of moves they've been willing to make, but wouldn't the answer be Seattle? Yeah. Well, and only they met with him, obviously, in 2017. They were the only team to meet with him. Yes. And so I think that, you know, bringing in, bringing in Kaepernick into Seattle will be very, very intriguing to me. I wonder if, you know, listen, I wonder if there's a team that says, listen, not just

we want him to be a backup, but we want him to compete for a starting job. That's not Seattle. I'm curious if there will be a team that does that who's just totally not set a quarterback. The reason that I was going to say that I said Seattle and there aren't a lot of other good answers, I wrote about this today. There are so many teams unsettled at quarterback that I think it's hard to pick one. It would be something where you'd have to have your head coach, your owner, everything on the same page, it's a big decision when it comes to dealing with what's going to happen

if you sign him. So that is a whole other issue. But when it comes to the quarterback side of it and possibly bringing him in for competition, I mean, we're looking at a third of the league that you could probably argue would be in that conversation. So I think it's difficult to land on one team just because there are so many candidates. There's a lot of bad quarterbacks and Colin Kaepernick is better than those bad quarterbacks. So it comes- unsettled quarterback situations. For sure. And then it comes down to what, how a team feels about signing Colin Kaepernick. And unfortunately, we've seen it for the past three years that there are a lot of cowards in this league. So I just, I don't know. I am very, very, very intrigued to see what happens.

I am too. I hope it works out, obviously. It's just the entire thing has been strange the way they've handled it. And I think that that's kind of my takeaway from this whole thing. If it works out good, but I just didn't think it has, it had to happen this way. Yep. All right. Let's get to our conversation here about the teams that can win the Super Bowl. Why don't we start this way? How long is your list?

Jeez. My list is about 10. Okay. My list is 11. Okay. But it's tiered. Okay. Okay.

Mine is not tiered. Mine is tiered. I have spaces between groups of mine. Okay. So why don't we need to say? do the obvious ones first. Mine is actually 11. I'm sorry. So I think we probably have the same 11 times.

Okay. Well, hey, you didn't have the Seahawks last time. That's true. We got old takes exposed. We'll talk about this. Well, that's bullshit. First of all, they had traded for Clowny when we had that conversation. Second of all, I still stand by a lot of things I said there. You got to trust old Johnny Schneider. I guess so. We can have that discussion, and I plan on it. Okay. Patriots number one. Mm-hmm. Right?

Yep. Saints number two. Okay. I mean, just like, those are the two teams I have. Okay. I had the Niners and the Packers as well. Okay. Me too. Ravens. Yes. Chiefs.

Yes. Okay. So those to me are the no-brainer answers. Okay. I think the Seahawks are next on that list. Okay. I agree. We can have a chat about the Seahawks in a second. I have the Cowboys after that. Mm-hmm.

You had the Cowboys on your list, too? I do. Texans? I do. Eagles? Yes. Vikings. Yes.

So is that 10 or 11? That's 11. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. So my list is, We're the same 11. Patriots, chiefs, ravens, Texans, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers, Seahawks, Packers, Vikings, Saints.

Yes. Okay. Let's unpack this for us. All right. It sounds like you have the Vikings below the Eagles and the Cowboys. No, not really. Okay. I just, I didn't think of them right off the back,

but they're in the same conversation to me. Okay. So when you think about the Texans, because that's a team that I, I am comfortable putting them on the list, but they are definitely in a lower tier than I would say any other AFC team. For me, for the AFC, for me it goes Patriots, at this point Ravens, then the Chiefs, and then the Texans. I 100% agree. Okay. What has to happen for the Texans to win the Super Bowl?

Because that's the old. John Watson has to play out of his mind. Yeah. I mean, that's really it. And that's not off the table. And that's why I put this and put them in here. Because he's been so good in stretches. And I actually think back to that game against the Chiefs when they were close to full

strength or something to it with Mahomes. And he just played so incredibly well. I think that's the best game I've seen in play as a pro, even if the stats don't bear that out. If he is on that level, they can beat anybody on any day. And I think that's what's going to have to happen. Because their defense, especially with, without why and when you consider how unsettled their secondary has been, I have very little faith.

But we've seen what can happen if your offense is playing in a super high level and your defense just gets hot for a couple months or month. Your defense throws four games together. I also want to ask you about this, though, when you're, when you were building your list, when you're thinking about this, are you considering how hard it is right now for teams that don't get the buy to win? Do you think in reality that it's only the teams that could possibly get a first round by there even in this conversation? Or do you think one of these teams could possibly put a run together if they get in the wild card? No, we had that run at the beginning of this decade where teams that were on the road started

to win quite a bit. Giants, Ravens. Yeah, Packers. And, you know, one of the things that was interesting to me last year was there had been, think something like eight straight playoff games for the home team that won. And then I made my picks and based on my picks and based on on that home team, buy, these sort of teams, things. And then it almost reversed itself, where the wild card started to gain a little momentum last year. And so these things are kind of true until they're not. The reason that the buy teams get to the Super Bowl more often than not is not necessarily

because they have the buy, but because the best teams have the buy. You know, it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. So I think that... I'm curious whether how much that's true or how much playing that one fewer game actually has a huge impact. I don't know. I don't know. There's no,

because there's no way you can just, we can't as an experiment give the 60 to buy just to find out, right? So, just do it one year. Just go to control.

And so I think that it's really hard to say that, okay, a team has to have a body to get to the Super Bowl because the Patriots are going to get a buy because the Patriots

are going to the Super Bowl, right? Like if they had to play a wild card game, I think they would still go to the Super Bowl. There's not much in the way of that. Okay.

So I think with, a team like the Texans. And I want to go on a mini rant here. So I've been joking around about the Texans front office and their clowny trade, right? And I had a lot of Texans fans who were trying to defend the Clowny trade

to me and said that the Texans won the Clowny trade because Clowny doesn't try some games. I'm serious, look at my mention. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. He wasn't tried on Monday night. But it's like, okay, fine, dude. Like, okay, maybe he doesn't give 100% effort every single game. But is having, is having Jadeviun Clowny better than not having him?

For the third round pick and play and paying half a salary? Yeah. Like, what would you rather have? Like, I just, I think some fans just talk themselves into these things. And so, okay, the Texans are good without Jadevian Clowny. That doesn't mean they're good because they got rid of Jadevian Clowny. They screwed this up. They traded him after the franchise tag deadline.

I mean, there were a million little tiny missteps along the way. It was malpractice. It was really bad team building. And so they screwed it up. And there's no way you can say, oh, oh, it's totally fine that the Texans don't. Someone was like, well, the run defense has gotten better. And that's all Jadivian Clown is good for. There were like 20 people who said that.

Run defense is all about devoting resources to the run. It's also just, it's also just watch games. Just watch games and watch. to W. Anyway, that's, that's, do their

hair and order there. I think the Texans, this, I think the Texans, more than any other team, probably in, in this list of 11, must rely on one individual

to just play out of his mind. And that's what you talked about with Watson. The only, I think there's, there's, every other team on this list, maybe has two or three paths to being a Super Bowl champion.

And the Texans in my mind only have one, and that's Deshaun Watson putting the team on his back. And that's a little bit a shot at the team building of it all. But it's also just Deshaun Watson's really special and, you know, whatever. By the way, I think that in a way, it's not the same because there's more talent in other areas of these teams, I want to say. But I also think that the Cowboys, Seahawks, and Chiefs are some sort of parallel to that. It's like a corollary to that theory about Watson.

because I do think their offenses and their quarterbacks are disproportionately the most important part of their equation to win. Agreed. Compared to these other teams. I don't think either of those teams are going to win the Super Bowl. I think they can win the Super Bowl. Yes. That's probably what I would say. I mean, that's what this exercise is, is that I think that the Chiefs and the Texans, if I was making my list here, I don't think we have to have them on the list because they literally can win the Super Bowl because they have an elite quarterback.

And that's most important thing in the sport. but I don't necessarily, it would legitimately surprise me if either of these teams made the Super Bowl. I have a question for you. Okay. Right now, just by the virtue of how good they are, not schedule by whatever, do you think the Niners or the Seahawks have a better chance to win the Super Bowl?

I think the Seahawks do. I don't, I'm kind of with you. So what makes you say that? They have a better quarterback. I think that's probably, yeah, I think it pulls down to that to a certain degree. With the Niners, you know, their defense was transcended over the first half of the season. We have so much evidence that says the opponents you play are a huge indicator of how good your defense is going to be. I mean, it's just, that's how it is, and that's fine.

The offenses they're playing are going to get much better. I still think that defense is great. I think they have a lot of talent. I think they're extremely well coached. I think they're going to come back to Earth a little bit. Can the offense pick up that slack? I don't know the answer to that. Jimmy Garoppolo is not as bad as he was on Monday night.

he's not as good as he was against the Cardinals. He's somewhere in the middle of that. I have a ton of faith in Kyle Shanahan. We'll see what this team looks like with Emmanuel Sanders and George Kittle. That being said, with Russell Wilson playing as good as he is, and some of these other elements kind of falling into place for Seattle, I think that they could be dangerous.

I also think the Seahawks aren't as good as their record indicates. They've won a ton of close games. They're a Greg Zerline and whoever that backup kicker for the Niners is miss field goal away from being what? Six and four? we're inches away from that happening. They've gotten by on the skin of their teeth. They're just the in-game decision-making by that coaching staff is so consistently

terrible. I can't even describe it. They hold back how well Russell Wilson is playing. That being said, I think the defense is getting better. And I think if the defense can continue to improve, if Clowny plays like this, they are folding in quandary Dix, who's been really nice for them, they just got read back. if the defense can get better and kind of offset whatever that close game luck is that they had over the first half of the season, maybe this team can sustain. So I think they're in the conversation with some of these elite teams, even though they're not as good as some of these elite teams when it comes to Rastertown.

I'm with you. I'm with you right there. I think that Russell Wilson is, I think you use the word transcendent, and I would say that that's correct. Again, I don't think it's a Deshaun Watson situation where he just has to put the team on his back, but he has to make some of the, of the throws that we've seen him make consistently for the past, you know, seven seasons. Deshawn Watson has more help on offense than Russell Wilson does. No, I agree. A lot more help. But I think that.

Not a lot more. Lockett's amazing. Tyler, well, I mean, DeAndre Hopkins is. Yeah, I guess it's kind of similar.

I guess if you're looking at it, you look at Lockett, McCallet Hopkins is just the sure ones. What Metcalf and Ford give is actually kind of similar. Carson's a nice player. I think the Texans line is actually playing better than the Seahawks line to a certain agree, but it's probably more comparable than I would give it credit for. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that we're still deal, I think these teams, one of the

things about football in 2019, it's been true this entire decade, is that there's certain teams that are getting really good or have been really good at just peeking at the right time, and that's, that's after Thanksgiving, basically. And so when we talk about what the Seahawks will look like come playoff time, or if the Texans look like, come playoff time, I don't know the answer. What I do know is that Pete Carroll has, you know, a handful of time. this decade figured out how to make his team better the season goes along and that's why they end up in the NFC championship game in the Super Bowl of you know so much um and so i think that or you know in the playoffs last year we were i think that we did not expect the the seahawks to be the trendy wild card

pick you know they lost in dallas but they were a trendy wild card pick because of how well they were playing as the season went along and so i think that the ability to make your team a December football team. That doesn't mean running the ball or whatever the hell it used to mean 10, 15 years ago. But the idea of just getting better every single week in a league that's really hard to do because of practice time and all this stuff and injuries,

that is a science. And Pete Carroll seems to have that. And so I always default to the Seahawks getting better the season goes along. Yeah, and I think that's what I mean with their defense. You can kind of see the pieces starting to fit a little bit. They brought in a couple new guys this year. I mean, if that comes together

and you have Wilson playing this well, who knows what they could do. One last thing before we move on here. How has how quickly did you put the Cowboys on your list? I mean, I kind of have them in the Eagle Zone where I put them on because I've seen them, I've seen what they look at their, how they look at their best. That was exactly my thought. Yeah. And I just, that team, if everything breaks right, can win the Super Bowl. That team, if everything, if a few things break wrong, can lose in the first round. That's true of the Eagles and the Cowboys. So I don't think that there's necessarily, I don't think I have a ton of confidence in it. I have more confidence in the Texans winning the Super Bowl at this point than the Cowboys

just because of the game the Cowboys have played last week and a couple of times this year. But I still think I know what Dak Prescott looks like when he's good, which is almost all the time now. I know what Amari Cooper looks like when he's good. And if those things come together and Jason Garrett stops being Jason Garrett, then, you know, and also, hey, you have to leave open the possibility that they do. just they fire somebody, they fire Jason Garrett mid-season and then they get a competent coach.

That was a joke. There's no way that's going to happen. That was a joke. I was thinking about that today. That was a joke. Maybe. No, it would have to happen for it to go down. It would never would. It would never happen. It would never happen. It will never happen. Absolutely nothing. And now it's time for the State Farm safe bed of the week, the player you can count on. When you needed a game plan for protection, state farm agents are here to help.

With personalized service, agents are available to talk in person, over text or through the State Farm app. So go with the one with coverage and agents you can count on. find an agent in a neighborhood today. Robert, we want to talk about a guy who at this point is the runaway rookie of the year contender, Oakland's Josh Jacobs. Yeah, I think that Kyler Murray is making a case week in and week out just by how well he's playing. But the sheer production and the success of the Raiders, it's just hard to argue with Josh Jacobs

right now. And he is playing against a team that absolutely loves to give up a ton of yards on the ground. The Cincinnati Bengals have allowed at least 200 rushing yards in four of their games this season. They gave up 175 against the bills, and now they play against one of the most efficient, productive, scariest run games in the entire league. Yeah, the Bengals gave up the run of the season last week against Lamar Jackson. Josh Jacobs is, according to football football, for focus, averaging 0.27 mistackles per rushing attempt. So he forces a mistackle one every four times he runs the ball.

That is first in the NFL. If you're already a team that has trouble tackling like the Bengals, this is a matchup that you do not want to see. He's number one in the league in PFS elusiveness rating. It's not even close when it comes to players at least 50% of their teams carries. If you look at the Bengals linebackers right now, do you have any idea who they are? Could you name two of them? No, I could not.

So there's Nick Vigil who is still spinning around looking for Lamar Jackson. That's what he's doing right now at this very moment. So that's progress. Sure. That's it, though. Outside of that, our guys were talking. about here are Brandon Wilson, who's kind of a safety hybrid, Leroy Reynolds, who's played 40 snaps this year, I believe he might be hurt,

Jordan Evans and Jermaine Pratt. It's impossible to overstate how bad the Spangles roster is. There are no good players. State Farm. Talk to an agent today. All right. Let's get to this week's take shop. I'm going to start us off. I'm going to go back to the Quadre Diggs, Jebbing Clowny kind of conversation here

because I was rewatching that game today. I was watching Clowny and the Diggs made a couple of plays. And this is very half-baked. I mean, this is just starting to kind of need the dough here with the take shop. I feel like in the league, it wouldn't be a terrible idea. Maybe it would be. But this is the point of the segment. If we had some sort of committee.

And the reason I was thinking about this was the player's reaction in Detroit to Quadra Dix getting traded and just the universal mutiny that they were trying to orchestrate based on that trade. maybe there should be a committee of players, executives, whatever. Eight guys. Every time there's a trade, the league goes to those eight guys. Like, all right, should this be allowed? Even in a fantasy league, I don't think this is a good idea.

I once orchestrated a trade while one of my friends was very drunk in a concert. I think with any sort of adults, you should be able to make transactions however you'd like with your team. But I don't give the NFL, I don't give executives in the NFL the same. level of respect that I give my drunk friends, apparently. Because I do think there should be some checks and balances in order to not let stuff like this happen. I get what you're saying. You're basically arguing for a VP of common sense.

Yes, that's exactly right. It's a committee of common sense. But I think that unfortunately teams and this panel, like this panel would have like Bill Polly and Tony Dungee, who else would be on this panel? I don't know. I haven't thought about the members of the panel yet. We could give Marvin Lewis. Marvin Lewis could do it.

It would be like almost like what the competition committee used to be, right? It would be like if you're out of football and you were on the competition committee. The problem is that football people view things so differently than, I don't know, the media or fans, whomever. Like the Jedevian and Clowny thing might be seen as addition by subtraction or might be seen as a, you know, a heady salary dump, whatever. And you know what? That's fine. If that is the conclusion that the committee comes to, then I'm willing to respect the ruling of the committee. But I still think that that conversation should take place.

The stuff should not be allowed. The Seahawks shouldn't have Jedevi and Clowny. This is the motivation for my entire bit of anger here. Your take shop is basically that the NFL should step in and rescind the trade. Yes. Let's do it right now. It should not be allowed. To send him back?

He's too good for them to pay half his salary. I don't know. That's true. It should not be allowed. I don't think we should change the rules because Judea and Clowny's on the Seahawks. You know, they changed the rules when Penny and Shaq went to the magic and back-to-back. years. There you go.

So sometimes this needs to happen. Penny and Shaqwer. I think Judevianne Claney is as good as any player for the Alanna magic has ever been. What are you trying to do? What direction you're trying to have this podcast in because it's about to get very ugly?

I just never been able to dig you about anything. You get me every single show about the Bears. So I just had to take one shot. It's not my fault. Now I'm just, I'm going to storm out of this room. Let me do my take shot. Before we delve into some very serious territory here. I'm sorry. That was not, that wasn't nice.

I'm sorry. I should have done that. Go ahead. Yeah, ever heard of Boat-Law? I have heard of Bo-A-W-A-W-W. Mark Maskey, the Washington Post reports, there's a new collective bargaining agreement within striking range, and that includes likely a 17-game regular season.

Okay? It goes on to say the agreement would scale back the preseason and could come with an expansion of the playoffs from 12 to 14 teams. This is something that Roger Goodell has talked about in the past. Okay. I don't think this is an awful idea if the players get massive returns. And I'm not just talking about more money because obviously there'd be more money for 17 games. I'm talking about something that would change the nature of player movement. Maybe something, maybe, maybe the sticking point for 17 games should be getting rid of the franchise tag because it's just such a problem to play Wilmore football game. It's it is this already a vicious sport. 16 games is fine.

If you're going to give them 17 games, the players are going to need a lot. You know, I think that there's probably a case to be made that you expand the rosters from 53 to 60 or maybe you just get rid of inactive. I'm not sure what you do. but what I'm saying is that I think you can add a 17th game, but I think the players are going to need significantly more than what they got in the last CBA if they're going to do that. Because it is a, that is brutal, man. So you're basically looking at every team playing a 17th game.

Then if you expand the playoffs, more teams playing an extra game in the playoffs. So I just, I don't know, man. That's tough for me. I don't think you can do it without a second buy. The people that I've talked to, I've talked to players about it and just out of curiosity. I mean, just not a lot, but a couple.

Just me, you know, kind of bringing up, what do you think about this? And it seems like the idea of a second buy they're amenable to. The 17 games without one, I think, would be a difficult sell. The franchise tag part of it, I feel like the franchise tag is further down the priority list for the NFLPA than other people. Without a doubt, because they're reasoning and it is sound. Yeah, it affects very, very, very few people. Having said that, I think, I think. that while that is correct,

I think that there's another part of that, which is the franchise tag depresses salaries at the top end, and then the weird, the sort of middle class of players sets the agenda on how much players should be paid because a player like Aaron Rogers, almost by definition, takes less because he, you know, when he signed that deal,

he was essentially two, three, possibly more years away from free agency because you can tag a guy three times. So they just don't have a lot of leverage. If NFL players got leverage in true free agent negotiations, those players would get a lot more. And I think that the market for veterans would look different. I agree that the franchise tag is lowered down the priority list. But I think that the franchise tag depresses superstar salaries in a way.

I don't think we talk about enough. No, and superstar salaries may be affecting the rest of the league. That's what I'm talking about. Maybe there's a domino effect. Yeah, and I can see that. I think there's probably wider ranging effects than just three or four players. I still think that they should try to fight a different battle here if they're going to have to play 17 games, whether it's a bigger chunk of the pie or something with certain levels of guaranteed contracts.

There are other things that I'd fight for. I think that the bar is extremely high to get 17 games without a second buy, though. I'm not sure there's anything on the table realistically that would make that worth it for players if they don't get two by weeks. Yeah, I agree, but it looks like we're, according to the Washington Post, pretty close to it. That's terrible. I just, whatever. Good, good. Player safety is super important.

That's what I've been told for a long while here. Yep. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. Pepsi takes all NFL celebrations to the next level, whether it's a Hail Mary touchdown, a defensive stop on the goal line, or a Super Bowl win. When it's time to celebrate,

it's time to crack open of Pepsi. When I was growing up, I had a group of three best friends, and we would always go to my buddy's house. And our spot was upstairs. And right next to this massive TV, Right when those big, huge plasma TVs came out, was a fridge. And it was always full of Pepsi.

That's it. That was the only thing in there was Pepsi. And I associate that taste, that can, with so many sports moments from my childhood. I remember being over there the night that Kobe scored 81 points. I was there the night of the butt fumble. I was there for countless Super Bowls. For whatever reason, there are just all these fun, celebratory childhood exuberance type of moments that I associate with Pepsi and with being with my friends gathered around that TV.

And that's what Pepsi is. Pepsi is a sign of celebration. It's also the official sponsor of the NFL. And Pepsi reminds you to always be celebrating. This time of year, the weather starts to play a major factor, especially in the passing game. So I always like to see what the forecast is going to be the big matchups. Thankfully, the Google assistant is here to help. Hey, Google, what will the weather be like in Washington, D.C.?

see this Sunday at 10 a.m. Sunday in Washington, it'll be cloudy with a high of 44 and a low of 38. The Google Assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car, at home, and everywhere you take your phone. A little help, hands free. Just say, hey, Google, to get started. Let's get to the biggest three games of the week. Let's start with the Patriots at the Eagles.

The Eagles who are kind of coming along a bit, man, but also getting Bill Belichick off by. What are you looking for in this one? I saw the stat Ben Bowlin today. Do you know what the passer rating against the Patriots defense is when a quarterback throws over 20 yards? 3. 13. You're off by 10. Close.

I just, it's unbelievable. So there's a couple of things I want to pack. First of all, do you see Jamie Collins doing a backflip in practice? Yes, I did. I mean, just absolutely ridiculous. That guy's making a million bucks against the cap. I love it. I love Bill Belichick getting a high pick.

letting the Browns pay $27 million to Jamie Collins and then getting him back for no money and now he looks like a defensive player of the year candidate. That is just... It might be his biggest coup ever because we can talk about the Chung thing, whatever. Who else has come back?

I was thinking about this the other day. Who else has returned to the team after leaving and then given them something after he came back? Yeah. Is it just Chung? Is that the only modern example? No, I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there's more.

I was trying to think of others the other day I was picking, like, really racked my brain. I mean, the thing about Belichick is he gets these guys in the cheap and typically doesn't let them go. Guys like Rob Nankovic, Kyle Van Noy, those guys are not going to leave and come back. He's just going to, you know, pay them $2 million a year for them to do their job. So he's been getting the lower level assets that were undervalued by their previous team forever.

I mean, that's happened. I guess Dion Branch came back. That's another one. I'm not, yeah, he had a decent season when he came back to 20. Yeah. He was, no, not nearly as good. This is definitely the best one he's ever pulled off. For sure.

Yeah, what am I looking for? Well, I think it's going to be different than the Super Bowl. You think so? I don't think that the Eagles are going to put up 51 points on them. I don't think the Patriots are going to put up 40-some either. So, I don't know. This is, I'm intrigued to see, and this has been something I've said for the entire season.

I like seeing the Patriots defense go against really good quarterbacks because I think that there's been a lack of that. I think the Patriots defense is, you know, right there with Niners is one of the best, not only of this season, but of this decade. If you just look statistically at where they rank among some of these other, you know, in the modern era where defenses have, quote unquote, capitulated, according to Ron Rivera, to offenses, those defenses are bucking the trend. I get really excited to see a quarterback like Carson Wentz go against,

go against the Patriots defense. What in particular do you think is going on with Wence right now where you think there's any case to be made the Eagles win this game? I feel like there's a case to be made that they win this game. I think it's honestly by limiting Carson Wens. I think Carson Wens has played decently well this year. I just think that their receiving core has been such a problem

and they are so outmaned against this Patriots team. They're outclassed every single individual matchup when it comes to that secondary against this receiving core. But the Patriots run defense has not been nearly as sound as their past defense. And that's where the Eagles have thrived in the last couple weeks. They've really been able to push some teams around when it comes to the bills, the bears. I love the way they're running the ball right now. I think that if you look at their skill position players, them using Jordan Howard and Miles Sanders in packages together is one of the coolest things they can do right now.

Brandon Brooks is playing in an unbelievable level coming off of an Achilles. So I'm getting behind the right side of that. line and I am running the ball until the Patriots stop me. Because right now I don't have faith in my guys to create any sort of separation against that defense. I saw a point from Elliott Shore Parks that I've been thinking about, you know, this is a really big game for Hallie Roseman's young draft picks. You know, the point Elliott made was my, they need Miles Sanders because Jordan Howard

is hurt. Dallas Godert will be important with, with Earths being the focal point of, of the New England defense. And Devante Maddox against Julian Edelman. I mean, this is, I think that we sat around and talked about the roster depth of the Eagles for July, August, September, and we stopped talking about that once we realized they didn't have the depth we thought. And also, listen, they have injuries, whether that's Mike Jackson or whomever. But this is the type of game where we find out how good the roster really is, whether or not it was ever as good as we thought it was on paper. So I'm really intrigued to see the little matchups within the matchups on Sunday. I'll be curious to see what happens with the Patriots offensive line against this Eagles defensive line. They have struggled to run the ball as of late. I also think that right now the Patriots tackles are struggling a little bit in pass protection.

Obviously, you have a new house on the left side. And for the most part, what the Eagles have done with Graham and Coxus here is use them inside. So I'll be watching that. I would like to see how they end up using Brandon Graham in this game. Are they going to try to use him more over Thuney or are they going to try to move him outside a little bit to push the pocket? that way because that's where the Patriots are weakest right now. So the way they use their best players against a struggling New England front, I think is something I'll be paying attention to. Tom Brady Revenge game against Brandon Graham? He said today that he still thinks about it,

or sometime this week, that it still bothers him, that loss, which I can understand. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I think everything. I think that all, one of the things about Tom Brady is that he is motivated by those things, I think, far more than we know. Yeah, those people are crazy. There is that weird delusional aspect to people like him and Michael Jordan and all of them. It's a way of looking at the world that I can never really fully understand. Why don't we all just get along? All right. Let's get to our next one here.

Texans at Ravens. Oh, boy, this is fun. I cannot wait to watch Deshaun Watson and Lamar Jackson play against each other. Wow. You know, it was funny. Aaron Reese. I don't know if you saw this. He and Jets Reebuck from Baltimore.

My boy. Did a... Which one? Aaron Reese. Well, Jeff and Aaron are my boys. Everybody's a good friend of mine. Aaron's a Mizzou guy. Everybody's, I consider, I have many, I have many boys.

All right. So he did, they did an oral history of the time, Deshaun Watson and Lamar Jackson played at Clemson, put up over a thousand yards of offense. I think it's funny the way the college game is developing, where you can just, and it was a great oral history. But there are so many of these matchups now, like every week, it was like these guys played in college

and there was a thousand yards of offense. It's so, what was Baker and Mahomes thing from last year. Well, yeah, Mahomes and Mahomes and Baker last year were like that. It's just very, very funny to me. You know who else had a shootout is Deshawn Watson and Nathan Peterman. Obviously, the great matchup in college football history.

Nathan Peterman beat Clemson. I know. That was the game where essentially a lot of the option stuff and jet sweep stuff that the chief started using was born. They were watching that game at the team hotel. That's something where, if I was just not lost, I would think about that all the time to get pissed off. He threw for 580 yards in that game.

And he lost to Nathan Peterman. You just can't beat Matt. Canada, man. Matt Canada, who's currently unemployed. Football is weird. All right. So I'm really excited about this game. This is, I think that, you know, Trubisky and golf being in primetime angers me quite a bit. I understand you can't just put Lamar in primetime all the time, but I also think that that... I don't want to watch Trubisky in prime time. I don't, nobody does. And so I think that there's, I don't know. If I were the NFL, I'd find a way to flex this game into prime time. We need more

emergency measures when we have golf and Trubisky in prime time. That's fine with me. I'm fine putting those in place. They should exist. Who did you got in this one? It's tough for me to say. I want to see what Watson does against this blitz-happy Ravens defense. He's been much better against the Blitz,

and this offense has been much better against the Blitz in recent weeks and this season than they have been in the past. But this is a new kind of test. I mean, the Ravens are bringing heat about 50% of the time, and I don't expect that to change against this team. I think they're going to test them. So how does Watson work as Hots? If they don't blitz, can they even possibly get after the quarterback?

You know, we know the Texans' offensive line is better. They're still not great. So a Ravens defense that really doesn't have a lot of juice in their pass rush. How do they get after him? And what does the Ravens secondary look like? Because they've been awesome since they traded for Marcus Peters. I wrote about this a little bit last week. The Peters trade is so genius because when you know your offense is going to be great.

And I think that that's the Ravens probably feel pretty good about that at this point. when you know you're going to be great on offense, you need plays on defense if your defense is imperfect. And that's what they do. That's what the Ravens do now with Peters. He has two touchdowns. He's a risk taker. They're letting him play. Sticky man and man coverage. I just love the way that there's kind of a marriage between his skill set and the way they're using him. So how all of that happens on that side of the ball? That's what I'm most interested in. And then Lamar Jackson's on the other side of the ball. So it endlessly entertaining this game. I saw an amazing stat this week from at Paul Hembo, it had it.

There are two instances in which the NFL MVP has been younger than the Heisman trophy winner, okay? 2000, Marshall Folk was 27. Chris Winky was 28. That's great. Which is just phenomenal. That one shouldn't count. Well, it does. Scoreboard.

Chris Winky. I'm not saying Chris Rinkies' Heisman shouldn't count. I'm saying that shouldn't count as an older Heisman winner. I actually am saying that. 1957, Jim Brown was 21, John David Crow. was 22. And this obviously goes out saying, but Lamar Jackson is younger than Joe Burrow.

So that is in play if Lamar Jackson continues as a winzy MVP. It's amazing. How much do you think that matters when it comes to quarterback age? Or do you think it matters how long you have that guy cost control?

No, I was asking about when you tweeted the other day. Yeah, I was asked this question about why this matters. And I don't think it matters. Like, it doesn't mean that, you know, Bill talks about this a lot with like high school, you know, the Kevin Garnett era, right? Like,

does that mean they get more years or does that mean they age more quickly because they were playing in the NBA, you know, at 19 instead 22, right? And from my perspective, I don't know the answer to that except to say it's freaking impressive what Lamar Jackson is doing. Do you get what I'm saying? Like that, that, it doesn't mean anything from a football perspective, except that he is, was born 1997 and he's dominating the NFL. Like, that's, that's impressive. So I'm not saying that Joe Burrow was a bust. I'm not saying that Lamar Jackson is the greatest quarterback of all time and we'll do so because he, you know,

and we'll do so the next 15 years because he came in a league early. All I'm saying is Lamar Jackson's born in 1997 and he rules. That's impressive. Yeah, it's hard to argue with. Like, what were you doing? What were you doing at 21, 22? Oh, God. I don't even want to talk about it.

Nor do I. I don't want to talk about what you were doing at 21 either. No one wants to know. All right. Let's get to that wonderful primetime matchup between the Bears and the Rams. God. You are the one that wanted to talk about this game. That's because there was nothing at, like, Stafford's not playing, so we can't do Stafford

versus Dak. You were the one that wanted to talk about this game. I wanted to talk about it for one very specific reason. Okay. First of all, I already brought it up. This game should be flexed off the planet and not even to, like, it should be flexed off of television. They shouldn't even move it to the early window.

I am so terrified about what Aeronald is going to do. to the Bears' offensive line. All right, I want to... It's keeping me up at night. Okay, but you... I have some good news is that Jared Gough is not very good. Lindsay Theory had this.

Jared Gough led the NFL in 2018 with 15 past touchdowns off play action. Golf has yet to throw a play action touchdown this season despite recording the second most play action attempts in the league, 94. There are 36 quarterbacks with the play action

past touchdown this season. This is why I wanted to talk about this. if Jared Gough cannot throw a touchdown off of Sean McVeigh's play action concepts they were canceling them. We're doing a full and total shutdown of Jared Gough. It's just, it speaks to how broken the offense is and just how out of sorts they look right now.

I wrote about the Rams on Monday, and I went back and I watched that game on Monday morning against the Steelers. And they were just, the Steelers were so in tune with everything they wanted to do offensively. I mean, some of that is the Steelers just having really good players.

Mika Fitzpatrick made a great, play on a third down throw to Cooper Cup down near the red zone. They're red screen so quickly a couple times, just snuffed it out right as it started. But it just feels like all of the tricks and all of the little wrinkles that McVeigh has gone to so often, teams have really started to dial into them. And I'm just wondering what's next. You know, they've tried to do some different stuff with formations, everything else, with personnel packages, but I just don't know how much this has evolved.

And when you look at the stagnation of the scheme and some crumbling of the personnel when it comes to that offensive line, it's really a recipe for disaster. I still think the Rams win this game because I just don't understand how the bears are going to move the ball against them. Trubisky was better last week against a man-heavy team. And I think Trubisky and Nagy were both more comfortable, understanding they were going to get a lot of man and kind of dialing stuff up that played off that. I don't think you're going to get that from the Rams. They're going to play a lot of zone. I think they're going to confuse the hell out of them. And I think that their defensive personnel is so much better than what the Bears have right now.

Are we expecting an Eagles 2017-style invasion of Los Angeles by Bears fans? Or are they just not that excited about this team? I don't think they're that excited about this team. There will be a lot there, I assume, but I don't think it's going to be a moment. There may never, ever again, be something like that Eagles weekend. Like, I just, if you don't live in Los Angeles or you're not an Eagles fan, you don't understand it, Eagles fans were so excited about that team. It was November,

and the entire city of Philadelphia just came to Los Angeles, and it was like, we're just going to hang out at Santa Monica Pier for 48 straight hours. It was unbelievable. It was like the World Cup came to town if the World Cup was just Eagles fans.

I talked to Dave Howes about that game. He was there, the musician, and he was there with his brother. He was, they had a game happen, and him and his brother Tim were just so bummed out, and then they were walking back to the lot. to the parking lot. And he told Tim,

confirm this to me. He's like, we're still going to win the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. He's so proud of that story. And I was like, good for you, buddy.

It's a great moment. I'm happy for that 17th season and all Eagles fans, but, you know, it's, this year has been a little rough. I wrote a column off that game

that I really liked, but I can never, yeah, no, hold on, but I can never re-share it because in like the sixth paragraph, I make fun of how bad the Eagles

are going to be with Nick Foles. Which ended up being true. Which ended up being true for like three weeks. they were awful. Remember that? Raiders game was unwatchable. The Raiders game was unwatchable.

And so like whenever I'm thinking about like columns and problems, I'm like, oh man, that Wenz injury column was awesome. Oh, wait, I'm sorry, I have to burn that from the records. It never happened. Okay. Sneaky Truths? No, we don't have time. Oh, we don't?

Oh, okay. No, it canceled. Sneaky Truth and Geeks Out are canceled. We went too long on our Super Bowl teams. Okay. The sneaky truth is that the 2017 Eagles were fun. That's, oh, that's true. My Geeks Out was just going to be watch Chandler Jones this weekend.

He's just been awesome. super underrated. He does a lot of cool stuff as a past rusher. If you're watching that Cardinals Niners game, which I think will be entertaining, watch Chandler Jones for like five steps. My actual sneaky truth was that we all kind of thought that Jamal Adams was making a stretch

when he said that he was on the Aeron Donald level, and I think that he might actually be getting there. Yeah, he's one of those guys that I would love to see just unleashed on the right team. What's happening? Are you saying the Jets are not the right team? I actually kind of like, to be honest with you, he's such a playmaker that I actually kind of like

he's on just a dog shit team because he's just doing whatever he wants. Yeah, he's just like, I'm just going to go take the ball from Daniel Jones. We'll just see that goes. That actually is not a bad argument.

Did you see this week? Adam Gase, job is secure. He's back. Job is secure. Not just this season, but for next. We get to run it back, baby.

I'm so excited. All right, Steelers at Browns Thursday night. Do you have any thoughts about this game? I'm excited. I, I don't know.

I wish I could believe in the Browns. That's exactly how I feel. I just can't. And this is one of those games. So it's like, maybe they can win. Maybe they can start putting some stuff together. It's, they should have blown out the bills last week. I mean, they should have two, 12 more points than they did with those goal line sequences that were just awful. But I think the Steelers defense is playing super well right now. Yeah. Mika Fitzpatrick just taking the ball from

and that's front, man. Like, T.J. Watt has just been awesome this year. Heard's always great. And they are so dialed in right now. And I just think that the Browns offense still isn't playing very well. Yep. All right. Are you taking the Browns or the Steelers tonight? I'm taking the Steelers. All right.

Sounds good. All right. That's all we got, guys. As always, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. We'll be back on Sunday night. Pepsi takes all NFL celebrations to the next level, whether it's a Hail Mary touchdown, a defensive stop on the goal line, or a Super Bowl win.

When it's time to celebrate, it's time to crack open a Pepsi. I can't even tell you guys how many times I've been drinking a Pepsi, eating JJ Twigs pizza from Wakanda, Illinois, for anyone who knows what that is. It's just such a perfect combination. Pizza, Pepsi, friends, sports. It reminds me of being a kid. It reminds me of celebrating.

It reminds me of everything I love about taking in a great game. Pepsi, the official sponsor of the NFL, reminds you to always be celebrated.