The Ringer NFL Show - The Minnesota Vikings Are Looking for a New Quarterback, Marcus Peters to the Rams, and 2018 NFL Combine Predictions | GM Street (Ep. 240)

Episode Date: February 26, 2018

The Ringer’s Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier discuss Blake Bortles’s new contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars (4:25), the Minnesota Vikings’ sneaky quarterback market (13:20), and news of Marcus Peter's trade to the Los Angeles Rams (24:26). Then, Michael Lombardi shares stories from past NFL combines (35:47) and the guys wrap up with another edition of Word on the Street (45:00). More on Blake Bortles's new contract. More on the Rams' trade for Marcus Peters. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's GM Street is brought to you by the ringer.com. It is a website. You can go check out. We have first up, Kevin O'Connor wrote a big story. He was at the Sloan Conference this weekend for all the analytics heads out there.

Go check that out. It is Kevin O'Connor on the takeaways from the Sloan conference this weekend. And also check out GM Street. It is part of the Ringer Podcast Network. You're listening to it right now, but please go back, check out some of our stuff.

And also, Robert Maiz and Kevin Clark will be in Indianapolis this weekend for the Combine. Be sure to check that out and more podcasts on the Ringerer. ringer.com. Now let's get into the show. Welcome to GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network. It is Monday. It is our first Monday together, and I am joined by Mr. Mike Lombardi. Lombardi, how you doing? I'm great, Tate Fraser. Monday's in, Tate Fraser. It's awesome. What could be better?

It's a great way to start the week. We did the whole season. We did the late Sunday night reactions. I mean, technically that was the start of the week, but it feels more real and more natural right now to do it on a Monday. I like the Monday slot. Yeah, I do. I mean, you know, it feels good. I think we got a lot to look forward to the week, especially we got the combine coming out. We got free agency, which is going to be fascinating. because free agency is so far is the combines this week and then free agency is like two weeks away. So the tampering convention that's being held in Indy this week will have two more weeks of tampering. It's going to be fascinating. We're going to have a lot of wink-wink deals.

Speaking of wink-wink deals, we're going to talk a little bit before we get in the football stuff. The NCAA, there's been, it's not even the NCAA case. It's an FBI case right now that's coming out with a lot of payment of players, Arizona, coach Sean Miller. it came out the $100,000 deal. Now we don't know if it's a wiretap. We don't know what it means. You like tip me off that there was stuff coming down. It was pretty impressive.

You know, you told me that this is, and this could be wide ranging. And I, you know, my view on this is that there's an economic term called moral hazard. And they use it in economics basically when the rules are so slanted in one direction that it doesn't behoove the person who has to enact, live by the rules to live by the rules. And so that's really what the NC2A is. The rules are slanted so much to the NC2A and that the players don't get anything that to me this whole thing has been because the NCAA doesn't really recognize what they need to recognize. I mean, let's be real honest here. I mean, I get they're getting a full college education, but it's one. They created the one and done rule.

And so that to me is why this is going on. And I'll give a little shout out to Chris Betola. as a Duke guy, he came out and said, when the reward is so great and the risk is so little, that's called a moral hazard. Why are we shocked that people go after the rewards? You know, why are we all blown away? And I think that's the problem right now is a lot of people are acting shocked. Everyone is, you know, blown away by this whole story.

Dick Fidel is very upset. Can't believe this would ever happen, even though he's been around college basketball since the 70s. We all understand what's been going on. I can't believe it, baby. I can't believe it. It's unbelievable. I've never heard of such a thing.

It's a lot of people getting on the moral high ground while they can, but it'll be an interesting thing. We'll keep up with it. Obviously, it will impact college football at some level. Will there be any teams at the tournament? That's the question I wanted to ask you. We're going to figure it out. I keep saying Rhode Island as a one-seat could still happen. So I'm holding out hope for Dan Hurley in Rhode Island right now.

Is that Bobby Hurley's brother? Yes. Nice. Yes, Dan Hurley, Rhode Island. Bobby Hurley at Arizona State. Yes. Yeah, that's awesome. New Jersey basketball.

To me, that's why basketball, that's why it's so different than football. because Rhode Island could never compete on the giant stage with Alabama in football, right? One would think that would not work out. Yeah, but in football, I mean, it's just like guys and, you know, it's funny, football coaches, they rarely go from Rhode Island to Tennessee. Like, nobody makes that leap. Whereas in basketball, they always make that leap because it's more of a universal level sport than footballism. I mean, there's clearly distinctions in football.

And it also, for college basketball coaches, when you do do that, when you make those leaps from a high school. And then like a Frank Martin, for example. He goes from a high school coach in Miami. Then he's at Kansas State. Then he's a South Carolina. But he was an assistant though, right? Yes, exactly. At Kansas State. Yeah. And he grooms his way up. People respect those coaches a lot more. And, you know, football is, you know, football. And you know, football's all from the end of the high school play. I get it. Especially when you're from Miami. You got a lot of talent down there, of course. I'm a Frank Martin fan. Well, look, we're here to talk, not college football, but pro football. And we got a lot of stories going on. The first one is

your boy, Blake Bortles. He gets the contract extension that we all talked about and all hopes for. Fifty-four million dollar contract, 26.5 million guaranteed for Blake Bortles. This was something that we sort of expected, but did not expect a new deal. We thought he may just have to opt in because of the surgery he had with the physical coming up. But what are your first thoughts when you read this? Well, so, you know, like, you read the deal and everybody's like, I can't wait to see what Lombardi says about this. Look, I'm not surprised. I mean, they've been, they've been the biggest Blake Bortle fans in the world, other than Blake Bortle's facts on Twitter, resides in Jacksonville. I mean, so we know that. But I think there's more to this than meets the eye. I think there's more to

this than just Blake got a contract. I think from knowing and understanding how these things work is, if you're really doing your job as an executive of the Jacksonville Jaguars, is you're going to go out and you're going to make that phone call to Kirk Cousins. And then you're going to make the phone call about Case Keenham, and you're going to compare your player to everyone else. And I think, what happened for Jacksonville was, they realized that economically for them, this made the most sense because they bring their starting quarterback back. They get him. They see the glasses as half empty. They think that they can really, they think they can really make this kid better, right? So they think there's growth in this guy. He's 25 years old. We're going to make him better.

He improved this year. Look at what he did in a playoff game, although they forget about the playoff game against, you know, Buffalo, but look what he did against New England, you know. so it's Pittsburgh and New England. So I think that's what they did. I think they probably thought, okay, Cousins is going to be outrageous. We don't want Keenham. We're not going to be able to draft a guy.

Where are we? And I think the thing that they did with this deal, which a lot of people have pointed out, it was this is about cap room for this team. And they have Alan Robinson coming up, and he's a 24-year-old guy. We remember he got hurt at the start of season. I think it was week one.

He gets hurt. And he was out for the entire year. But he had 1,400 yards the year before. They're trying to figure out what his deal will look like. So if you sign Blake, you have more cap room. across the board to sign these other guys like Robinson. Is that the reasoning behind this or is it more of just, you know, it is what it is? I think it's the old Stephen Still songs. Love the one you're with.

You know, look, they're 12th in Cap Room before all these deals start to come in. I don't think Cap Room is going to be a problem for anybody. The Eagles struggled all last year with Cap Room. And I think 10 of their 21 starters came from pre-agency and they made it all kind of work together. And so I don't see Cap-Rum being the issue. I think what the issue here is, is I think they see this player. as they see marked improvement. They feel like he can get better.

And the only thing I would say with that is that I'm not trying to be an asshole towards Blake Bortles because I've been plenty of an asshole towards him is Blake's a different player when they play from in front than when they play from behind. I mean, there's no doubt. So there's a certain style they have to play and maybe they can get Blake better. Their feeling is the guy that really should get an extension is Nathaniel Hackett. I mean, let's be real honest. The offense coordinator down there, I mean, because he's actually got this to this point.

I just wonder, Tate Frazier, is now that I saw him signing that contract, it's almost like he has a sense of relief. Like, does it really matter anymore? It's got the flacco treatment. It's like, I got my contract. Right. I'm good. I'm good. I'm all set.

I got my team set. You know, everyone knows I'm the quarterback now. I don't have to worry about someone looming over my shoulder, whether it be Chad Hennie or whoever is down in Jacksonville. Now, that's the key point there. I think somebody is going to be looming over his shoulder. I think that Jacksonville is now going to be in the market for the backup quarterback. And I think that backup quarterback is going to be told it's Blake's job, but you can compete. Not that we're going to give you the job, but it's Blake's job, you just do your thing.

And I think whether it's a draft pick or whether it's someone else in free agency, I don't know who, but I think that's really what they're going to look to improve upon is that backup. And if they strengthen that backup enough, like hypothetically, let's say Lamar Jackson makes it all the way down to them, right? I mean, could you imagine if Lamar Jackson was your backup quarterback to Blake Bortles? What would that look like? You'd have some questions to ask. You'd have a lot of people wondering what we're going to do with these RPO's, and we have a guy that runs a 4-4-40 and has an arm that is an NFL-level arm,

which we talked about last week on the pod. I think the concern you have as an executive is when you try to strengthen the position with a better backup, is you better make sure that backup doesn't look better than the starter, because then all the other pro-personnel directors, those other players that you have on the team, they're all pro-personnel directors. They all think they know talent too, right? they're all going to come back in and say, man, why aren't we playing that guy? Why aren't we playing that guy? You know, as good as Jimmy Garoppolo looked in practice, nobody came in saying, you know, I don't know why we don't play Jimmy because this Brady guy's no good.

You know, I mean, it was, Brady was good. So nobody had that conversations. But sometimes in most organizations, if the backup looks better than the starter, you're going to say that. And we saw it in Houston last year. I mean, Tom Savage is lining up with the starters and everyone's watching Deshaun Watson. And they're saying, I think we need that guy. I think that might be our guy. Exactly what happened. You know, you can, Billy, you can say Tom Savage is your starter all you want, right? Go ahead and tell you. But the best player on the team is to Sean Watson. So I think they're banking on the last six weeks of the season.

I think they're banking on the fact that they've got this really good team. And let's be honest here, the NFL is always about a known quantity, right? So you know what you have in Blake Bortles and they can manage around them. Would they cite, would Case Keenham make them a better team? You know, I think there's some debate about it. There's an argument to be made. There's an argument to be made that why are we going to, you know, Al Davis used to always say, I don't want to, I don't want to bring in a 58, if I have a 59 player, I don't want to

bring in a, I want to significantly improve the position. And I think there's some truth to that. But a quarterback, I just wonder how this is all going to affect everything else. It's not going to affect their market because they're just 12th. They have a ton of cap room. They're going to go out and spend money in free agency. They're going to draft a guy. So I think what they looked at it is saying for 25 million of, you know, they have a lot of,

guaranteed. I know he's got 54 million that they're counting, right? For the next two years, right? They're, for a 7 million more that basically took the they took the franchise tag in two years and said, okay, here's what, if we tag them, tag them, this is what we have.

We might as just do a three-year deal. And we should say a lot of people have pointed this out. I mean, it is a tradable contract. If Blake comes back and it doesn't look like what we saw at the end of last season, they're in the market to maybe find a team that will take on Blake. He's 17th and average salary among quarterback. this new deal. It's not the worst thing in the world. I mean, $54 million sounds like a lot on its face,

but when you really look at the numbers, it works out. I think that's what, I think it was just, look, we know this guy, we might as well sign him. And even though we understand he's limited, I think the message is you just got to keep looking. Now, I'm, and then they extend Coughlin, they extend Morone, they extend David Caldwell, the architect of Blake Bortles. So, you know, I mean, I think that everybody's happy. This is where you get into trouble. When you're happy as a team, because it's going to be harder for Jacksonville. They're going to play first place. schedule next year. And they're not going to be able to play from in front all the time. And just a little secret, the quarterback is going to have to participate in some of these games. If Fournette gets hurt,

they cut ivory, they're going to need another back to go with Fournette. I mean, they're going to have to improve in certain areas. People know how they play. Their defense is really good, no doubt. But when the defense plays, it has to play from behind like they did get in San Francisco, different story. Remember, this team lost to the Jets and lost to San Francisco. I mean, let's put that in perspective. And we know that they have a whole year of tape now on Blake Bortle's, what work for this team? They're not going to sneak up on anybody, and that's the difference.

Right. And I think they do have a whole, but I think what Jacksonville saw in that playoff game, and they watched Philadelphia do it to New England and the Super Bowl, is they saw maybe this is the offense we should run with Blake. Maybe this is what we should do with them, more RPO's, more this kind of thing, and can he handle that? You know, it looked good against New England because New England lacks team speed horizontally. It's not going to look good against some other good teams. Yep, they beat them to the

edge, and that's what made Blake look great. Should we get like, we should probably, like, hang a Blake Bortles jersey. And I mean, really, this guy's had a hell of a year. I was really worried that what was going to happen was we were going to bring up this contract, and you were going to say it's the worst quarterback contract you've seen since the highest, and then Blake Bortals is going to end up winning MVP next year, and then we're going to have this whole thing again. No, I actually don't think this is. I don't think it's that bad. I don't think it's that bad. I'm happy for Blake. I really am. And I think Blake's like, I think Blake's like, I think. I think Blake pinches himself every day, but he's going to the – I think Blake is one of these guys that sits at home and looks at his bank account and says, is that really my money?

Is that, you know – starts high-fiving everybody. He starts sending money back to UCF football. Have you ever watched Stripes, you know, when the general looks through the glasses. Are those my men? You know, that's what, Blake Bordell's done. Yeah, is this my money? Is this really my money? Yeah. You know what, Blake, you should save it. Like, you should really save it. Because I'm not sure another 20 million bonuses coming your way anytime. What a great country we live in, isn't it? I know. Transfer to the savings account. Just leave it there. Let it settle. Let it grow interest. Maybe find some investments.

Yeah, get the fruit cake every Christmas. You know, why not? There you go. I'm happy for Blake. Speaking of quarterbacks, you might as well just get into this. The Minnesota Vikings, they're in an interesting situation right now. We've talked about this before. They had the three quarterbacks on the roster,

Case Keenham, who led them to the NFC Championship game. You got Sam Bratford right behind him, a guy that they brought in to be the franchise quarterback at once upon a time. And then you have Teddy Bridgewater, a guy they drafted in 2014 to be the franchise quarterback. at one time. All three of those quarterbacks are now free agents. And it came out today or actually, yeah, it did come out this morning. According to Ian Rappaport, that the Vikings do not plan to franchise Case Keenum. They sit ninth in Cap Space right now. And there are a lot of rumblings and rumors that they're going to go after a quarterback. And like we said, with Case Keenum, if the home team's not going to pay the man, then that devalues his market value as he goes into free agency.

Yeah, I think people know where Case Keenum is. And I think people understand there's limitations to You know, what I've said to you before is this, free agency, you do not want to sign a player at a position and then have to sign another player. You need to solve the need. And there's some elements that Case Keenham could help you solve it. There's not just the absolution that he's going to solve the problem. So I think Minnesota is a sneaky player for Kirk Cousins. I really do. I think because they haven't signed any of these. Look, they can't sign Bradford because they deep down know in their heart and you know in your heart and I know in my heart, but Bradford can't stay healthy. So we could put his name up on the board. Bradford knows that probably at this point. He knows he can't

stay healthy, right? And he's probably being unrealistic with his contract demands because he's Sam Bradford, and he's always been unrealistic, and people have always given him money. So they're not going to sign, they don't know anything about Teddy Bridgewater, so you can't go there. And Keenham has a ceiling. And they're a really good team. So if you put Kirk Cousins on that team, how good could they be? They're also picking at the bottom of the first round. They're going to get a quarterback down there, even if they were to draft one. And maybe they should, but you still would sign Kirk Cousins. cousins that have this young quarterback there. Just say hypothetically, Josh Rosen slipped to the 20s something pick. So they pick them and they're not going to play him next year anyway.

He gets the Aaron Rogers treatment where he falls like 24 to 27. So it's the perfect time. To me, Minnesota is in a sneaky position because it's quiet. The teams you have to be concerned about is not the ones you read in the paper. They're interested in this guy. They're interested in that guy. Teams that do that, it's just blowing smoke because at the combine this week, there'll be a bunch of meetings at all the different hotels between the agents and the agents will throw out. I got this number. I mean, really, they should bring, a team should hire Andy Dukes this week, the poker lady. They should hire her and just follow around so they could, she could read the bluffs of the agents. Yes. Like, like, okay, yeah, like I, you know, case, I got four teams,

I got four teams. I'm a, you know, Kirk Cousins. Kirk's got you at the top of the list. Yeah, well, nothing could happen at quarterbacks until Kirk gets done, right? Okay, so, you know, I got 30 million a year, 100 million guaranteed. And then let Annie figure out whether he's bluffing or not. that might not be a bad play. I think it's good. I think teams should do that. You know, because you know, I mean, the one thing I know for sure, there's a Catholic church right in the middle of Indianapolis.

And it's probably there for a reason because all the Catholics that are in the league are lying so badly this week. They need to go to church on and confess their sins. Good. They need to. Because there's so much bullshit going on. I got this for that guy. I got that.

But going back to Case Keenham, Tate Fraser. I think Keenham could get screwed here a little bit. I think he thinks his markets at A, and I'm not sure it's going to be like at C. I think it's going to be at C minus. I don't think it's going to be as strong as everybody thinks of this. Could he end up at Arizona? Yeah, I think he could because I think Arizona's the team that's got to take whoever they can get. And I think it comes back to, though, what have you done for me lately, conversation a little bit with Case? If you had talked to anyone in the league after he has that amazing miracle play to Diggs going into the NFC championship game, most people had already decided that Case Keatim is now the franchise quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings.

in their head. Subconsciously, whatever it was, people have determined that his last performance we see is the Eagles game where he is, for lack of a better word, atrocious. And now, you know, we're sitting at a point where he has gone back to, he's returned to the mean.

And then Blake has these last two games against Pittsburgh and New England and his value skyrocketed. It's all basically what you see. It's the last games that we see. But let me throw something out to you. What I think would be a fascinating thing to do, and I don't think this could happen.

But in theory, if I was playing stratomatic baseball with Michael Cedino and Danny Reynolds again, this would be an interesting idea. Some teams, let's hypothetically say the Vikings re-signed Case Keenum, okay? And they sign them to a deal and they pay the bonus and all that stuff. And then they call the Eagles up and they're able to get Nick Foles and they're first, and they throw in Case Keenham in the deal to be the backup. Now all of a sudden you got a chance to get Nick Foles because you're sending them a backup

quarterback. We all know the thing that they have to solve in Philadelphia is who's going to be the backup. Now, they think that Nate Sutfeldt could be a good player. I read that all the time. So maybe that's the case. But to me, using Case Keenham as a chip to get to Nick Foles might not be a bad idea. You'd have to structure the contract. Plus, we know this.

Now, even though Peter Rucco from the Management Council has lectured everybody that, you know, you're not allowed to buy draft picks, we saw that the Cleveland Browns bought a second round pick for whatever amount much money. So we know they're not going to enforce that rule. So if you pay Keenham, if you pay case, and then you put together a package to Philadelphia where they get a backup quarterback at a modest price because you've already paid the bonus and you get Nick Foles, that might not be a bad idea. That's not a bad idea at all. I also wanted to bring up talking about the situation with Bridgewater.

We obviously know that we've said it a million times. I think it's almost become comical at this point how much Mike Zimmer apparently loves Teddy Bridgewater. We don't see it mentioned very much, but we do know from behind the scenes that he apparently loves him. So if there was a world in which they signed Teddy back for some sort of a small deal. I think they will sign Teddy for a one-year deal to kind of let him get on his feet, get him in the preseason, see if he can do something, you know, and go forward. I think Teddy's part of their plan A and part of their plan B.

Hypothetically, say plan A is to get Nick Foles and they don't get Nick Foles, so they sign Keenum back. Okay? And then plan B, then they would sign Bridgewater. Say they sign Cousins. And then that goes to Plan B, and I think sign Bridgewater. Bridgewater is the backup. I think Bridgewater's in in Minnesota because they love them so much. And who wants to take on the medical liability? Nobody knows. I mean, the last thing Bridgewater wants to do, which is what he's going to have to do in free agency. He's not going to be a sign

the contract guy, the first day free agency. He's going to have to work out. He's going to have to go A, work out, or B, take physicals. And so that's going to prolong. And then the grapevine's going to start talking to, oh, he fell by physical. We're going to get the leaked headline. It's going to be almost, remember when he did his pro day before he was going into the draft and he didn't wear the gloves. And he had a horrible pro day. And then everyone's like, we don't even know if this guy can play quarterback in the NFL. And then two weeks later, he wore gloves and was amazing. And everyone's saying he's the next Brady. We got 60 days of that crap coming up. We got 60 days. Guys doesn't run a 40, but then all of a sudden he runs a 4-1-3.

You know, we got this guy skying up the board. I just want to throw up when I read it. But anyway, I think, I think Bridgewater is part of Minnesota's plan. But think if you put cousins in there, see, I think Denver always thinks, Denver has the John Elway issue. Denver believes, Denver believes... Their first priority. Well, but Denver believes because they have John Elway, they get a discount. They truly think they're Al Davis. Al Davis used to think, you want to play for the Raiders? You've got to take a discount. It's the same thing there in Denver. Well, if Kirk Cousins wants to be here, he's going to have to

take a discount. He's going to have to show us he wants to be here. He has to show us. He's got to take less money to play in Denver because we've got a good team. Well, but you're also picking the top 10 of the draft. And they have a draft pick. So, you know, I think that's going to be the end. I don't think Denver's going to be all in in terms of money. I think Minnesota could be all in. And we should say there's been a lot of rumblings and mentions of Minnesota being in the Kirk Cousins camp. They've stayed quiet on the whole thing. Right. They're not going to comment on it. Look, everybody who needs quarterbacks in the Kirk Cousins camp. I mean, Cleveland's going to be in the Kirk Cousins camp because nobody is now acknowledging that there's a clear number one quarterback

in the draft. Like nobody's sitting there saying, I know Mel Kuiper thinks Josh Allen is, but nobody's saying, you know, like to me, if I were Cleveland, I pick Bradley Chubb. first pick overall. Put him on one side, put Miles Garrett on the other side. And you know what? Now you're going to create some real havoc. Yeah, it's like a clowny watt matchup. Exactly, right?

And then the other sneaky team in this whole thing, not for the quarterback, but to me, the sneaky team in free agency is Houston. Because Houston has no first round pick. I don't think they have a, they don't have a two either. So they have no draft picks. They got a ton of cap room, and they got a really good team coming back. To me, Houston's the sneaky team that's going to make a lot of play. And you talk about players that want to play for someone.

There's a lot of players that want to play with Deshawn. Deshaun can get the goal. He can get it going. And that's what you need. Like, I don't think Blake's calling anybody. No disrespect to Blake. But I don't think he's calling anybody. Say, come on, play for me on my offense.

Like, I'm sure there's like, I mean, Cullie Wazley answers. He's like, yeah, I don't think I can do that. Yeah, I don't know. Man, I don't throw it so good. Sammy Wackers, I don't know. You don't throw it to me. You know, Deshawn calls you up.

You're like, hey, come over. Yeah, I'm coming. I want to ask you about one thing that you mentioned before. you talked about Al Davis has these guys where if I'm going to take a significant jump at a position, I want it to be significant, obviously. And the difference between a Case Keenum and a Kirk Cousins, there's a lot of people that don't know where they stand on that argument because a lot of people think that Kirk Cousins is overvalued and they think that, you know, Case Cienham is a little bit undervalued. So do you think Cousins is a significant upgrade at the position for the Minnesota Vikings?

I believe Kirk Cousins can win in the playoffs and have a team around them that can compete for a Super Bowl title. Yes, I do. Do I think Case. Keenham can do that. I think all the conditions have to be perfect for Case Keenham. I think playing in a dome helps Case Keenum. I think he's not a big man overall. I think 16 games could wear him down. He's played well this year. It didn't wear him down. But I think playing in bad weather. I think if I'm Kirk Cousins and I could play in the dome, I could control the weather for at least eight games. I know I've got good weather there. I know I'm going to play in Detroit. I know I'm going to play another dome. So that's nine. I think I would rather do that. I think weather matters. a little bit when you're getting older and playing in a crowd where you know, for Kirk Cousins, you know in Minnesota with that crowd noise, you should be able to run the football. You should be able to have control of the game because of the crowd. I think that's an attractive thing for him. And it's a good division to go to. To get out of the NFC East where you now have the Eagles who are the Super Bowl champions, defending Super Bowl champions, to get over to the NFC North where you have

Rogers, who's obviously there's been some conflict there in Green Bay with him and his quarterback's coach. And then you have Matt Stafford. They got a new staff coming in. You know, the Bears are a young team that have a young quarterback. That's a division that they can go into with Cousins and take over. Right. Plus, you know with Mike Zimmer, if you're Kirk Cousins, you know with Mike Zimmer, your defense is always going to be good. And so you need a good defense. I mean, look, the fact is the Eagles played 25, 26 minutes a game of defense all year because they were able to get off the field. They were good. They were the best team. I mean, Minnesota is the best team on third down until they got to the Eagle game. And so you know you're going to get the ball back and you know

you're going to have some consistency and some toughness. That's why I think they're a sneaky team in this whole thing. But look, every team that needs a quarterback is going to be involved. And then all the other quarterback dynamos are going to fall through, are going to have to fall in place. Gotcha. Let's talk about one of the biggest trades that's been reported in the offseason just came out reported by Ian Rappaport.

The Chiefs will ship Marcus Peters westward to the L.A. Rams in exchange for a 2018 fourth round pick and a 2019 second round pick. Great trade for the L.A. Rams to get Marcus Peters. second is really like, you know, that's in the future. So, you know, it's devalued a round usually. So, you know, if you're in the third round, you trade a two next year to get a three. So that's a long way. I mean, they didn't get a lot for him, the fourth round. Now, this is the second trade that the Rams have made without a contract. They'll have an option to pick up his fifth year sometime in May if they want to do that, which I think they would, giving up what they've given up. Sammy Watkins,

they could franchise him. They say they're not because they're going to do Lamarcus Joyner. This obviously puts them out of the corner business in terms of franchise and Tramaine Johnson again. So look, I don't think the player, I think there's some issues with the player. He makes a lot of plays in the ball. He breaks up a lot of plays. He takes a lot of chances. He's a true, legitimate playmaking corner. He gives them up. It's give and take. I think the issue is going to be how he handles the locker. I really was impressed with what Sean McVeigh said at the coach of the year when he got his award this week about how he can integrate him into the team, how he feels like he's going to put him in the team. And then Aaron Donald spoke to it. And I thought Aaron Donald's words were powerful in what he said in terms of, hey, you know, the guy's going to come in, we got a locker room and we can handle it. I think that's going to be critical because the Chief's locker room was a mess last year. And he was instrumental in that. He's been bad in the locker room in Washington, the University of Washington, bad locker room in Kansas City. And now he's at the Rams. And he's going to have have to play well to get paid. And he's been suspended for a game last season. We remember him

throwing the flag in the crowd with some of his frustrations. He almost got in a fight. Marshawn Lynch, his cousin came out and kept him from getting a fight at one time with the Raiders. So there's been all types of stories, but I will say some good things about Peters. Since he entered the NFL in 2015, no player has more interceptions or passes definitive. He had 19 interceptions, 55 passes defended. And this is a good stat, too. Only Ed Reed, who had 22 interceptions, has more interceptions than Peters over the first three seasons of his career. Yeah. And they didn't match him. right? So he didn't trail. They just put him over there. And so I think to me, he does a great job of reading the quarterback. He plays off coverage. Now, he's going to play more man to man from press with Wade. But, you know, the rush is always good. This gives Wade his a keep to leave. So this gives him his guy that he can count on, that he knows that he could roll the coverage away from him and try to take things away. It gives the RAM a legitimate corner at an economic value because they got two years at really no money, whereas to pay Tremaine Johnson another and extend him out, that's going to be, he's going to get, Tremaine Johnson. He's going to get a huge deal in free agency.

This just made him more money. So I think the Rams clearly have to find a way, which I'm sure they're going to do, is to get Aaron Donald on a contract. They've got to get Aaron Donald on a contract, and then they're going to have to decide on what they're going to do with Goff. And, you know, Goff improved tremendously this year. He was the worst quarterback in the playoffs when you really break down all the 12 teams in the playoffs.

What quarterback played the worst? It was Goff. So they think they can build on that. Maybe they can. Maybe they can't. They're going to have to figure out what they're going to do with him, too. And we can see if Goff will get the Blake Borrell's treatment where we do give him the deal. We know that he is our quarterback, but we're not going to go all the way out and say, you know,

you're our guy for this amount of money. We're going to pay you like a top-shop quarterback. I think next year is going to be the interesting thing because, look, you're in the West, right? So you got Garapolo, you got Russell Wilson and you got Gop. Do you have the best quarterback in the West? Not right now. I don't think you do. I don't think you do.

And so to win, you know, this is another Al Davis that you've got to win the West before you get to the playoffs. So it's going to be interesting how that all pays out. But I think the Rams, you know, what do they have to lose in this deal? Really, there's not a lot of, they give up a two and 19, which they could move around in the first round this year and pick up a two at some point. You know, we get too caught up with these draft picks because at some point the draft picks have to turn into players. And we should say trades are not official until a new league year begins, and that's on March 14th. Once I know from the Chiefs angle, a lot of people are saying they obviously gave up a guy like Marcus Peters for cheap, a top cornerback. But it seemed like they didn't want to pay him like a top-fly quarterback.

I think they've had enough of them. I think they're cleaning up their locker room. I think there clearly was a disconnect between. Maybe this is why Dorsey isn't there anymore. I mean, John has always, Dorsey has always been a really good scout. He's a good evaluator. And they've always taken some risky character guys. Like the best defensive lineman, David Irving, on the Dallas Cowboys, was in the Chiefs camp.

He was on the practice squad. He was there, and they just couldn't tolerate him and they got rid of them. And they've always stretched the limits in terms of character. I mean, think about it. Tyree kills a fifth round pick. there were not many teams going to take Tyree Kill. When he got drafted, people were shocked. I mean, Travis Kelsey was another guy that was tainted coming out in the draft, okay?

So they haven't been taking Jimmy Goochews. I mean, they haven't taken those guys. So they've taken some risk, and I think that their locker room has paid a price for it because they haven't been able to get it together. And I think now that whether, and look, everybody said, well, it was Dorsey. I think, look, Andy Reid runs the whole thing. So he's signing off on it no matter what. but it'll be fascinating to see how they play with a new quarterback and not having a starting

legitimate corner. That's going to be – Cassie's going to be an interesting team to watch what they do in free agency. Absolutely. Let's go to another guy that a lot of people talk about. We call him Ferris Bueller here on GM Street. It's O'Dell Beckham Jr. And there's been a lot of talk about a tweet that he sent out.

Someone tweeted at him asking about how many preseason games who's going to play in. He said zero, which is a fine response. He's coming off a serious injury. Not everyone expects him to play in the preseason, but he says this, and then people run with it. They're like, you know, this is going to be a long, arduous negotiation with OBJ this summer, figuring out what his deal will be with the New York Giants. And that's what it leads to. And then OBJ responds to all the reports that are coming out.

And he said, people take things a little too serious sometimes, quick to write a story. But hey, anything for a couple of likes in this world, L.O.O. It's sad. That's the world we live in. Wonder if it will ever change. What an existential question from OBJ. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. I mean, it's going to be interesting because OBJ. because OBJ is tied to Jarvis Landry. So we know that last week we talked about the Dolphins franchise, Tim,

and everybody understands that the Dolphins who are really not very, who don't have a lot of cap room. They have some master plan going on with what they're going to do with their free agency, and they intend to trade Jarvis Landry. The problem with that idea, as we talked about last week, is somebody's got to be willing to trade for them, but also sign them to a contract. And Landry, from my sources, what I've been told,

is Landry wants to be the highest paid receiver. in the NFL? In the NFL. And that contract could choke a horse. And then you know this leads into my man Beckham is he's going to want to be the highest paid receiver in the league. Okay? So like. Oh, man.

Yining yank. Yeah. So I would love to be a fly on the wall at Miami's talking about trading Beckham. And knowing that he's going to have to then call a team up and say, look, we'd like to do a deal with you. We think you're worth X. You kidding me? I think I'm worth this, you know? And it's like, they know they can't sign them. Miami does. And once everybody else knows that he's out, he's being outrageous with his demands, I think it's going to be hard to trade them. But maybe they've got it worked out. Maybe they have a way to figure it out. Maybe somebody will take them for a year and just put them on the franchise number. I don't know. It's a lot of money to pay for a slot receiver.

And it's also one of those things, too, if you're calling and you have interests in Jarvis Landry, if you're another team or if you're another GM, you're asking these questions about what Jarvis expects, right? I mean, are they given. him the answers? Are they just sort of like, well, you feel free, you can talk to them. Let's work, you know, I'm like, okay, no, I mean, like the guy wants, you know, the guy, I mean, Malcolm Butler didn't get traded because, you know, he never reached an agreement with anybody. He was a free agent. He was a restricted free agent, so he could have signed with somebody and then the Patriots had a right to match, or let him go. And, you know, whereas Beckham now, he controls the deal. I mean, there's no, so when the player controls the deal, there's no discount deal, you know, well, this team wants me, that team wants me. And for me, I don't understand where Miami's coming from,

and they're obviously, you know, have a plan, but you're going to get a compensatory pick for them anyway, perhaps, unless you plan on spend a lot of money in free agency, which you really don't have much cap room, is why wouldn't you just take the compensatory pick and take, and get the problem away from you? Like, why would you tie up that cap room for the beginning of free agency? Because say it takes 10 days, then free agency is over with for you, you know, And it's over with. I don't know how smart this play is. I'll be interesting to see how it all comes out.

Absolutely. And we've been talking about the Landry, you know, Miami potential trades for at least this season. Look, they complain about them. You know, now it's come out. I was talking to somebody on the phone today that admitted that everybody knows they were trying to trade them. I mean, I took a lot of crap for it.

You know, look, this is a headache. They should just get rid of the headache. You know, they see in value. I mean, I don't know. I like Landry when he has the ball in his stance. But at 8-8 and 9 touchdowns, I mean, do you really want to pay for that? Do you really want to pay for that?

I don't know. They mean to take some of leave down to Miami and see if they can figure this headache out. It'll be interesting to see it. Look, the one thing we do know about free agency coming up is we know that the next seven days, we're going to hear ridiculous numbers about who has what. And so fans understand this.

The agents are putting those numbers out to get some guy at a team saying, hey, I heard this team's really interested. it 99.9% of the time, agents rarely have two teams bidding on a player. Okay? If the home team's bidding on a player and you're trying to get the player, there's probably you're not going to get them. The home team knows the guy. If the home team's not involved, the agents can't let you know that. They want to take that away because if you know they're not involved, then, you know, then all of a sudden they're not,

there's not that leverage you can play. So if you see a headline that says the Cardinals are willing to pay Case Keenum franchise QB. money, then keep your eyes peeled for maybe an agent. And that's what we're going to get for the next. But remember this, Tate Fraser, from the time the combine ends next Monday, a week from today, we have like another two weeks before free agency starts. So there's going to be all sorts of different, you know, backdoor conversations, the leak reports and and the usual that we see around this league. We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back to a couple combine stories and do word on the street. Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I wanted to tell you about the revamped

ringer NBA show podcast. We are Monday through Friday on Mondays, John Gonzalez's host, Heat Check, bounce around, talk to a bunch of different ringer staffers about the weekend that was and what's coming up on Tuesdays. Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor, America's favorite couple. On Wednesdays, sources say with Chris Ryan and Julia Lipman, and maybe some interview podcasts as well, and then Thursdays group chat, Chris Ryan, a rotating cast of ringer staffers. We even put this on YouTube too. And then Friday, draft class, Kevin O'Connor, Jonathan Charks, sometimes Danny Chow, talking about the 2018 NBA draft, mock stuff, who's rising, who's falling, who's going to do what. You get this every day all the way through the playoffs, the draft, and even free agency, five days a week.

The Ringer NBA show, subscribe now on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, we're back. We have the NFL Combine. We mentioned in Indianapolis this weekend. it'll be a fun time, a lot of conversations to be had, a lot of players will be watched, a lot of narratives that will be discussed. I wonder when TMZ is going to show up there. I think they're already there, right? They've got to be.

I would think TMZ would send sport. I mean, you know, you would think so. I mean, you can go over to Mose, the bar there and just sit there and observe. TMZ can hire Kevin Clark and Robert Maze. They're going to be there. They're going to do some extra work. I mean, to me it's going to be, you know, look, the Combine has two things going on. It's the only convention truly for the NFL, the full NFL.

all the doctors are there, all the trainers are there, all the coaches, the assistant coach, everybody is there. So there's this incredible amount of NFL people are there. And then it's in this small area and there's all these steak and everybody's going. And it's a lot of late nights and early mornings because, you know, Tate Fraser, everybody has to get to the way in early. Yes. Okay. So you're a millennial and they have to get there early because everybody has to sit in their seats. And when they call the name out, 6013, everybody writes it down.

205. Everybody writes it down, right? And then 31-inch arms, everybody writes it down. Nine and a half hand. Everybody writes it down. Everybody does it, right? Get there, look at their bodies. And then after it's over, you get a sheet with all those numbers. It's because you have to trust your own notes, you know? Maybe there was a mistake somewhere else. Unless it's in your handwriting, it doesn't count. I don't know. But I mean, if you want to go look at the guy's body and say good body, bad body, I mean, the weigh-ins, you can't get a ticket to the way in. I mean, guys will get over to the way in at 5 o'clock in a morning to get seats for the staff. I mean, they're like packed. It's the hardest ticket to get. I mean, Celine Dion in Vegas is an easier ticket to get than this is, right? So you got to get that. And then, so that's an early

morning gig. And then late night, you know, you're out there looking around late night. And that's where all the rumors start. You know, that's where everybody's out there and not, you know, out there hanging out. Everyone's got what they heard today about this guy. What they heard today. What about that guy, you know, and then, you know, and then the next day. And then the workouts don't start till Friday. And then that's the whole other thing. And the one thing about the workouts, to me, I think the league always misses an opportunity to honor like the legends of the game. Like this combine should be called the Al Davis combine. Like the league should honor Al with the he loved the combine more than any human being on the world. He loved it. Especially 40 times.

He loved sitting there. Well, he would do Tafras. He would sit right on the 40 line. Okay. And so those kids, Now, they all knew who he was, whether you're a millennial or whether you're old, you knew who Al Davis was. He had the glasses. He's got the white. And you could smell him, okay? Because the perfume, you could smell, right? So you could smell him sitting there, and he's sitting there. And sometimes he'd have Ron Wolf to one side.

He'd have parcels to the other. He'd have Gil Brand over there. I mean, he'd have, like, his little army of guys. But he would sit there with his notebook, and he would look at the guy, and he would want to make eye contact to let the guy know, look, I'm watching you. Darius Hayward Bay. Yeah. And then when he ran, we're trapped at him. But, I mean, nobody loved the combine more than he did.

He loved it. And all he wanted to do was sit there and watch the 40s. He sat there. And then as soon as it was over, so they run twice, right? And then the sheets come. And every team has a guy stationed on the 40-yard line. Because you also get the unofficial time first, and then you get the official time. Okay.

So everybody has a guy stationed up in the stands. Like Tom Coughlin will be on the 10-yard line, time and tens. He's done it since I've been in the league. He'll time every 10. He'll write him down time at his own time. And so, and then somebody will time the 20s and some of the time. But then eventually you'll get the combine times, the electric time and all that. And so, but Al would get John Otten or Jimmy Otten would bring down the times with a hot dog.

11 french fries. No, no french fries here. Just, just mustard down, die coke. And then that was just like the snack to pull them over. And then he would look at the times and he would look at his notebook and he would make his notes. And that's kind of what he would do. He loved it, though. He never interviewed the players, never went any other players.

you know, people were scared to come over to Raiderland. It's like going to the throne. People were scared to have to go over to Raiderland. Like, nobody wanted to go over there. But people would be on the edges to hear what's going on in Raiderland. You know, it was pretty good. But that league should like, there's people, like Paul Brown invented the 40, right? Like, name the 40, the Brown.

Yeah. You know, like take it, like put the history of the game into the Al Davis Combine. You know, Gil Brandt, one of the founding fathers of the combine. When I first started in the league, we were at a combine with Seattle. it was Seattle, Buffalo, the 49ers, and Dallas. And we went up to Seattle to do the combine. This is when Brand was with Dallas. This is when Gill was with Dallas.

And then the next year, the first full combine came. That's when Jerry Rice ran the 40 on the grass at Arizona State. Okay, that's, I still have, I have every 40 time recorded since then. And so, like, that thing has changed dramatically. I mean, so Gill's played a huge part in this combine. But I think the league misses an opportunity to honor that. You know, it's funny. You talk about Tom Savage.

I have Tom Savage story for you. Pittsburgh great, Tom Savage. The Pittsburgh great Tom Savage. So when you interview a guy, so at the train station, it's a complete cluster, right? So every team has a room, and you get 15 minutes to interview these kids, right? It's like a car wash, right? It's like a car wash. So they blow a horn, you hear the horn, and that means you start.

And then with three minutes left, they blow the horn again to let you know you got three minutes, and then they blow the horn. Your guy has to leave the room in 15 minutes, right? And so, you know, everybody, it's just a commingling, everybody's around. And so, and every room has different people in it. Some head coaches are in there. Like in New England, Belichick always sat off to the side, you know, eating pistachios, kind of listening, and he would interject at times. Nick Cesario would run the meeting, and then he's sitting in back. So one time, Greg Ciano had just been fired at Tampa, and he and I are sitting in the back of the room. I was with the Patriots at the time, and we bring in Tom Savage for the interview. This is a deer we'd drag out.

after Jim McGroplo. And we bring in Tom Savage. And Savage sees Siano in the room. I thought he was going to shit his pants. I swear to God. I was like, you know, because like,

he's like, that's my whole coach from Rutgers. That's my whole coach for Markers. And he's thinking, like, what did he tell me? And what did I, what do I got to say?

What have I been lying about this entire time? I got to recalibrate. I got to recalibate this whole thing. It's like, he's like been blaming Rutgers the whole time in the system and Shiano's just sitting right there. That's great. He's like unbelievable.

You know, because in the old days, we used to go, you used to be able to kidnap kids anytime you wanted, and you could take them to your room. And like, I remember I had Lawrence Phillips. Wow. And Ray Lewis in the room together at the same time. Wow. Watching tape.

Was it like 1999? No, this is like 87. This is in 87. Oh, wow. Wait a minute. Hold on. Take that back. This is 1996.

Okay. In 96. I was just going to get fired a week later from the Browns. I left the Browns and Belichick. Belichick and I had Ray Lewis and Lawrence Phillips in the, the room at the same time. And it was amazing. Ray Lewis was watching the tape. He was going over every single play, knew everything what he was doing. It was fascinating. Meanwhile, poor Lawrence Phillips, he didn't even know what the play was called. He was just there. Like, you got any gear?

He was looking for the gear. God rest of the soul, I feel bad for him. He was a troubled, you could tell he was troubled dad. But anyway, that's how the combine's changed so much. But it's, But what goes on there is so much different than inside the dome. And then there's the dome, there's the train station, and then there's the Mose and there's the bars and there's all that stuff. Is there any person, you talk about Ray Lewis watching tape? Is there any sign that you have, like a telltale sign that someone comes in and they do something like what Ray Lewis did where it just clicks in your head where this guy went from somewhere on my draft board to now we just shot him up to the top? Look, the reason we drafted Trey Flowers, the kid at Arkansas, the kid from the Patriots, is every guy that came in the room, hey, who's the best player you played against? A Trey Flowers.

Who's the best player? Trey Flowers. Who's best player? Trey Flowers. Like, it was like unanimous. Like at some point, we got to take this guy. Yeah. I mean, that's what I would do too.

I would love to ask. I used to have people would ask the players, like, who's the best player you played against? I would have someone call the players and ask the players. Like you're just a random person would call him. Well, pretend like you're from Sports Illustrated. This is back in the old days, right? Like this guy would, and I could tell you the guy's name, he's dead too, but I don't want to,

I don't want to get him. he would call and say, hey, I'm so-and-so from Sports Illustrated. You just played the senior ball. Man, you looked really good. I'm writing a story about the senior bowl. This is before really the Internet, right? Can you tell me about, you know, Tate Frazier from North Carolina? Oh, yeah, he was good.

And they could. I think I would just take notes. And it was kind of a different way of scouting. So it was kind of fascinating. And they obviously knew they weren't in a situation where they were being listened to as more general open conversation. It was an open conversation. But look, remember this.

When you're in scouting, you're in the information business. So you've got to find a way to get information no matter how you do it. Like this whole notion that the kids are going to tell you the truth is a bunch of crap. Like when you go to a campus, don't go to the coaches. The coaches are going to tell you what they want to hear. You know, find out the local bar where the players hang out and go in sitting there at 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock night, and then watch. And last that bar, that bartender will know more than any assistant coach, I promise. And I will say this combine this year.

There's going to be a lot of players when they asked the best player they went against. They're going to say Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson, yeah. Absolutely. All right. Take Frazier. Should we do a word on the street before we go ahead. Let's do it.

We do a quick word on the street. Just a couple stories coming out. They decided to cut veterans, Charles Johnson, and Kirk Coleman. Charles Johnson, obviously a big name. Second in the franchise history and sacks behind Joyce Peppers. It's a big loss for them. I mean, you know, they didn't activate him for the last game of the year. He got the suspension.

I think it's kind of at the end of his rope. I mean, Marty Herney stayed on as the GM, so, you know, Kirk Coleman's a guy knows how to get lined up. I wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo has two good safety, so I don't think I'm going to Buffalo, but he's a system kind of product guy. And we should say that also clears up some cap space. A lot of people think the Panthers will try to make a splash and free. agency if they can. Not a lot of cap space. Not a lot of cap space. But they'll spend money. I mean, look, they're going to be sold fairly soon here now. That's going to be the interesting

thing is because how much money are they going to be willing to commit when you know they're going to be sold? I mean, the guy from Pittsburgh, whoever he is, the hedge fund guy, we want to be hedge fund guys too. You know, I mean, once he sells, once he buys the team, then, you know, then the things could change a little bit. Yep. And then last one, last story that we have today. We're going to wrap this thing full circle, tie a bow on it. Charles Tillman, former great Chicago Bears player. You know, people remember in 2007, he signed that huge six-year deal for 40-point,

I think it was like $40 million or something like that. He's now going to be an FBI agent. He has a two-year probationary period for him to be fully enrolled in the FBI. But watch out, Charles Tillman, he's going to come after all these NCAA coaches at some point. I bet you he'll knock guns out of people's hands. He can strip sack somebody.

We know he can tackle somebody and knock something out of their hand. I think it's awesome. I think he's one of the great people of all time. He was on TV, gave up a TV career to chase his dreams. I think it's awesome. I wish him a bunch of, I wish him nothing but success. He's a really good human being. Absolutely. And Charles Tillman, he took that Panthers team in 2015 to Super Bowl 50. He was on that squad. That was the last time I think he was in the prime time. Tillman was in the same draft as Namdi Asimwa. Yes. The actor. The actor. The actor and not. Husband of Carrie Washington. I saw Carrie on the

lot the other day. There you go. See. But Namdi was nowhere to be found. I know. She's didn't scandal too or no. I don't know. She needs to get him a role, right? I think so. That's what a good spouse should do. Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. Hook him up. This has been another edition of Diem Street, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. Thank you for listening. Thanks, Dave Brazier.