The Ringer NFL Show - The Most Chargers-ish Loss, Jim Schwartz is the New Vic Fangio, and More Big Takeaways from Week 6 | Extra Point Taken

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Sheil and Ben get together to share their reactions to the Cowboys' victory over the Chargers on ‘MNF.' Then, they examine Browns DC Jim Schwartz’s impressive record against Kyle Shanahan-coached teams and applaud C.J. Stroud’s development in Houston (14:25). Next, Sheil details who he thinks are the three best coaches in the NFL, while Ben goes over the Titans' continued woes (35:11). They end the pod by discussing some of their trade deadline fantasies and reveal the poseur teams that we won’t be seeing in the Super Bowl (49:12). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Ben Solak Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Musical Elements: Devon Renaldo Social: Kiera Givens and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Extra Point Take. Shield Capadia here, joined by Ben Solac after Monday night football. The Cowboys, hang on against the Chargers 20 to 17 in a game that pretty much way, if you were going to say, how do you think this game is going to go? You would have been able to hit a lot of the notes here tonight. We'll talk about that game. We will go around the NFL to share our takes from everything that happened in week

six, Ben Solac, how we doing? Always gut. Fun week of NFL football. Every single game was sloppy. Every single game was weird. We thought we knew nothing. We still know nothing. I feel like there was a pod recently where I was like, I'm starting to figure out the league, and I'm pleased to report that I'm not. I have no idea what the league's doing. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. At the end of the season, when you go through and try to remember stuff, the stuff that happened in weeks five and six, you're like, oh, that doesn't matter.

Yeah, throw that out the window, you know, nothing mattered then. But, you know, we're going to talk about it now. this will be a nice way to record what we were thinking at the time so we can laugh at ourselves months from now. So, So, like, you're up first. And I'm really curious to know, you know, the way we do this show is one of us takes Monday night each week. We rotate week to week.

And I have no idea what direction your take is going to be on this Monday night football game. So let's hear it. What's your big takeaway from this game? The takeaway is that when Brandon Staley gets fired mid-season, we'll look back on this game as the game that did it, man. I mean, this is a... A tough loss. You are off the buy.

You just saw an actual legitimate team, a real team, a contending team, a powerful team, the 49ers, walk the Cowboys around the yard for four quarters. You watched them, Maliwap him. And so you're off the by, right? You have that early break. You have two losses to start the season. You lose to the dolphins, Titans in overtime. Then you get the two wins back. Okay, we're at 500.

We're writing the ship. We're going to enter the final stretch of the season here. We're going to get a win against Dallas at home. We're going to show the we're a legitimate team. And here we go. We're going to make the push this year. And then the Chargers just play the most Chargers game of all charges. They just play as just charging it all up and down the field.

We enter the fourth quarter and the score is 10 to 10. The Chargers have played a great game of football defense to this point. First play of the fourth quarter. Third and 11 from the Cowboys 24. 60-yard catch and run from Tony Pollard on a scramble drill. could have been tackled, right, for a smaller gain. He ends up ripping it all the way down the field. They go, the Cowboys then score the touchdown.

Cowboys are up 17 to 10. Justin Herbert gets the ball. Four and out, basically they're going to punt. They get the luck, right? They get the grace. Oh my gosh, the fumble on special teams. The play that's going to make the difference. They're able to score touchdown on fourth and goal.

Brandon Caly goes for it and good play design. And they get it. It's 17-17. Cowboys get the ball back. Seven minutes left. Tie football game. And the charges give up a. third and 18 on penalty, a third in six, and a third and nine on route to a field goal drive for the Cowboys.

Justin Herbert gets the ball back, office gets the ball back with two minutes, 20 seconds. Herbert has played a terrible game all night. He's struggled hitting receivers down the field. He's missed multiple open receivers. He's managing the pocket well. They're like, oh, there's no sacks, and he's getting rid of the football, and he's making runs. But he's not as dangerous of a scramble as other quarterbacks are, and he's not paying them off for these explosive passes. and okay, what's this going to be, game winning drive opportunity.

And they just, okay, but first, you know, you get the Keenan Allen play. Should have been a first down. But again, just bad coaching, bad situational awareness. He goes out of bounds. Now it's like second and one, second and three different tracking spots. Is that coaching though? Come on. He's been in the league a long time.

That's not coaching. That's not going to be coaching. It's not going by Keenan Allen. That's very fair. It's just annoying because, again, it's poor situational football, which just feels so inherently chargersish. But you're right. That's unfair to blame that on coaching.

Anyway, Keenan Allen should get the first down. He doesn't. Goes out of balance either second and one or second and three. Different spots have different things. The charges get to first and five because it's offensive holding. And then Herbert could have picked up a first down to scramble, but he didn't. And then they take the sack and then he throws the interception and the charges lose the game. And it's just like, all right, why bother being in these close games?

Why bother playing well in the first three quarters if you're just never able to shut the door to finish the deal? They had a lot of opportunities to win defensively and they couldn't get off the field, gave up huge, huge, huge third downs to the entire fourth quarter. they had a lot of opportunities to win offensively, and the quarterback didn't play well enough, right? I mean, Herbert just very simply was missing the mark far too often. So they have the offensive issues, they have the defensive issues,

and then they feel like they continue to have personnel issues, right? Where it's just like, all right, who's the guy that they're targeting on that third down interception? It's Quentin Johnson, the first round picket receiver who can't get on the field, right? Who gets targeted on the Tony Pollard should have been a touchdown from Dak Prescott? It's Kenneth Murray, who's still starting a linebacker for them.

They just don't have the bodies of a contending team. They did not get the quarterback played tonight of a contending team, and the coach has now had so many opportunities to hammer this out. The fact that his defense continues to give up, key third down convergence, it's been a huge story.

That Titans game, they gave up multiple third and longs on sports flight conduct penalties. Like, they just constantly shoot themselves in the foot. Even if, like, I think there's more of Staley's approach that's defensible,

like a lot of his fourth down decisions and their recent wins have been good decisions by the numbers, very clear goes. So the stuff that he does that's defensible, eventually at some point you run out of rope. You're at the end of it, man. I mean, like,

I do not see, how the Chargers resurrected this season. If they're going to play every game like this, I don't see how Staley keeps his job after another season where they underperform. And I think this Cowboys win was a final straw, a straw that breaks the camel's back. Okay, so there was a lot there.

You had a lot to get off your chest. I could tell about this Chargers team that continues to annoy you, and rightfully so. They annoy me. I'm about to say, it's not just me. No, they're a very annoying team. They would be, I mean, I don't know. I would love to do a most annoying team power rankings.

Maybe we pitch that for the ringer, or I'm not going to volunteer for you to do work. But yeah, if I were ranking my most annoying teams, they're absolutely up there. So I'm trying to narrow down like this one game to you. This is what at least tell me if I'm wrong here. This is just like a culmination of being tired of watching this team where I think you and I both believe in the quarterback, but the quarterback did not play his best football tonight and absolutely cost the team. It's about a defensive-minded head coach whose defense never seems to show up and play, play well consistently.

To me, it's about a team that is, and me and you are not, I mean, I guess we sometimes dabbled into the intangible stuff. I'll speak for myself. You can speak for yourself on it. I'm not like, you know, no one listens to the show. And it's like, Shield's going to tell me about the intangibles of like this team, you know. Do they look, body language. Do they look like they want it?

Yeah. Yeah. However, you know what? The chargers are like the intangible team. Like on paper, you're like, I like this. I like this. I like this. They did.

Then you watch them and you're like, this is a toothless freaking team with no identity. And like, I'm not saying the players aren't competitive, but there's no like makeup inside of that. You know, like when you watch like a Mike Tonlin coach team or a Mike Rable coach team,

I mean, we could name, you know, John, like you could name eight to 10 teams. Some of them aren't even really good teams. But you're like, all right, I know what I'm getting from this team because of the leadership, because of what's at the core, because of the competitive of this,

there's like nothing of that with it. Like no one saw Justin Herbert get the ball there at the end and was like they're going to go down the field and they're going to be organized and they're not going to shoot themselves in the foot. You thought quite the contrary. Every single person listening to this watching that was like even if you think Justin Herbert

is the best quarterback in the NFL, you're probably like they'll find a way to screw this up. Even on the drive you mentioned, all those third down conversions. I mean, third and 19, you have a defensive holding penalty. I mean, they got a gift wrapped to even be in this game in the fourth quarter.

There's just no reason to hold. don't hold. That's like the Keenan Allen thing, one thing. When I say situational football, third and 19, either Staley in the headset or the defensive leader on the field, theoretically Ayrton Kendrix or Kenneth Murray, Derwin James, someone needs to say, no penalties, no flags. On third and 19, we make them beat us.

I have to go and find numbers-wise. I feel like this defense has had more third down stops that have become conversions on penalties than anybody in the league. And that, to me, is coaching. That to me is the team doesn't understand what the priorities are on the down. It's like a Wednesday to Friday thing. I mean, you say get on the headset.

That's something that just like, through the repetition of how you're organizing stuff and the players you're getting and how you're getting through to your players, do they make sound decisions or not? So I think we're on the same page there. I mean, yeah, I don't think this game specifically, I don't look at this.

It'd be like, Brandon Staley was terrible. Exactly. You know, we've had other games where we could point to like seven decisions and be like, what was he doing here? This to me wasn't that game. This was a zoom out. and just the makeup of this team,

and they lose games like this, it feels like consistently, and there might be numbers to the contrary, and it's just like, this is what this team is. Like, stop being fooled. Someone asked us to stop talking about them two weeks in. I think we've been pretty good about that.

I don't think we've mentioned them, really. I didn't realize someone high. They're like, you know, they're like enough about the chargers. They're irrelevant, and I think that's true. I mean, they're a good, they're a solid team.

They'll be competitive. They might make the playoffs. The ceiling seems low unless this is just, they have some type of transformation between now and like January 1st, this is the team you're going to get. They'll win some weeks, they'll lose some weeks, they don't have it, they're going to be irrelevant

by the time we get to the divisional round. That's how I feel about them. Yeah, that's why I framed it the way that I did, where I said, like, when we look back on why Staley got fired, we'll circle this game as like a deciding moment, because this could have been a chance for the Chargers writ large as a team. Beat the Cowboys who were a playoff team last year. You are three and two, you're pointing a positive way.

This moment feels like a watershed moment, where just everything accumulates, right? If you're looking for culprits as to why the Chargers lost this individual game, Herbert is probably first on your list. I agree with that. It's still pretty high up there. But, like,

we've seen the body of working Justin Herbert where we know he's generally a very good quarterback, right? NFL research just put out the stat where he was only sacked one time this game, but he was pressured on 47.6% of his dropbacks, which is a season high for him. Like, Herbert was fighting for his life out there a little bit, right? So there's a, for as bad of a Herbert game as it was, like he was, he was making positive plays when they were available to him

and he was trying to avoid sacks and generally did a good job against pressure. We know Herbert to be a good quarterback. Like, people always want to find reasons why Herbert isn't. We know him to be a good quarterback. Like, there's enough numbers, enough film, there's enough data. He's the guy. Overall, like the movable piece, the replaceable piece for the charges to feel I can get a jolt in the arm to feel like they can change the direction of the franchise,

now with Herbert on a second contract, that piece is Brandon Staley. And again, like, there's stuff that Staley does under which he comes criticism that I think is largely defensible and correct. Like I think if and when he gets fired, people will say it's because he made a lot of the wrong fourth down decisions. And he makes the wrong one sometimes, especially like last year, he kind of turtled a little bit. But in general, I think he makes the right one.

Like, I think that narrative is incorrect. That's such a small part. I agree with you. That is, you've been the head coach of a team with a arguably like top five quarterback for the last three years and you don't have a playoff win to show for it. At some point, the proof of the putins in the Ian, right? I've made a lot of excuses for Brandon Staley. I need a lot of justifications for Brandon Staley.

Got to win some ball games. If you want to hold onto the job, that's the long and the short of it. Yeah, no, I'm with you there. All right, that's the Chargers. Let's give the Cowboys some credit before we move on to my first take. I mean, that drive you mentioned,

yes, the charges had a bad penalty. Dak Prescott made a few really nice plays on that drive, that third and seven. He gets out of the pocket and makes the throw to CD Lamb for 18 yards. Third and nine, he finds Brandon Cooks there for a conversion just misses Tony Pollard one-on-one against the linebacker. So to me, honestly, watching this game at the end, I'm like, there's a lot of similarities

between these two teams. I'm not going to trust either one of them. One of them's going to win this game here. I think the Cowboys are a better team over the Chargers. I don't know that the Cowboys are a team that should have your trust right now. But Micah Parsons with the Big Sack there at the end, they're getting different contributions from different guys on defense, which has been kind of a hallmark, I think, of the Dan Quinn defenses. So, hey, Mike McCarthy, you know, he gets, I don't know if getting the last laugh is

the right word, but he goes against the OC, who he parted ways with. He wins a 2017 game. The Cowboys offense was better than the Chargers offense today. Dak Prescott was better than Justin Herbert today. And the Cowboys bounced back from that 49ers loss and they're four and two after six games. So they're right in the mix there in the NFC. Anything else from you on the Cowboys before we move on. Yeah, I wasn't, like we talked about the Cowboys after the Niners loss. I wasn't super new to the panic buttons. I thought overall, Dak would be fine. Dack played a tremendous game in this game. The, the Pollard TD would have been a nice cherry on top, a nice dagger. It's always, those running back wheel targets are always tough, right? The running backs just run that route

while differently the receivers do. So that one is a little sour taste at the end. But overall, Dak played great ball. And then defensively, man, they are worse without Trevon Diggs, but they're still not bad, man. They may not be the same unit, but they're still pretty high up there. And like I said, almost 50% pressure rate on Herbert dropbacks this game. They get after it up front. Pearson's is the headliner. DeMaris-Lorence Oso Deguza and Doran's arms wrong, man. They got horses and they always have. Yeah, there were some stuff, you know, they're drawing holding penalties and stuff that doesn't necessarily show up in the stat sheet as a quarterback hit or a sack. So four or two,

they're in a night spot. They pick up a game on the Eagles this week. They're one game back in the NFC East and there are only three five-win teams in the NFC, the Eagles, the 49ers and the lion. So the Cowboys are right there. They're still in this. All right. Let's move on to other stuff we saw Benjamin from week six in the NFL. I am up here first. My first take has to do with that Brown's 49ers game. And my take is Jim Schwartz is the new Vic Fangio. Okay. What do you think? What do you think? Last year when I did Mike McDaniel is the new Sean McVeigh. You were very excited. This one, you look very annoyed.

All right, let me mean. Well, because if we define New Big Fangio as like really good defensive coordinator who stops the best offenses, I'm in. If we define Jim Schwartz as guy who has a schematic tree in the league, I'm out on that. That one I'm suspicious. All right. So here's the case. If you remember, Fangio's, you know, star reached a new level, I think.

In 2019, there was that ESPN article where three coaches, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVey, and Matt LaFleur. they were all asked who is the toughest defensive coordinator to go up against. And they all said, Vic Fangio. And they went to, oh, Vic Fangio, that's interesting. What does Fangio do? Then everyone starts writing about, oh, here's what Fangio does. Then other coaches say, oh, let's hire people off the Fangio who know Fangio, who got lunch for Fangio, who once hung out with Fangio. They'll bring that system to our defense and our defense will be good as Fangio. It's like a Bill Belichick, corollary, what could go wrong? Right. It hasn't exactly worked like that. However, I'm

telling you the Shanahan stopper. It's not Vic Fangio. The shanny stopper is Jim Schwartz. Jim Schwartz's teams now against Kyle Shanahan are eight and one. Now you can say record. All right, who is playing for who? And that's fair. However, Shanahan's offenses have never scored more than 20 offensive points in nine games against Jim Schwartz. This continued on Sunday and you can say, you know, Christian McCaffrey went down, Debo Samuel went down. I understand the weather wasn't good. all those things are true. However, the 49ers went three and out on 62% of their drives against the Cleveland Browns. That's the highest three and out percentage they've had in a game since Kyle Shanahan became the 49ers head coach. Think of all those quarterbacks that played for

Kyle Shanahan back in the day before they were just getting to the NFC championship game every season. Those were some bad quarterbacks, some bad offenses. None of those offenses went three and out as often as the 49ers did on Sunday against the Browns. They had 215 yards of offense. That's the fewest they've had in a regular season game under Kyle Shanahan. So obviously, it's well, what did Schwartz do? You know, one thing, you know, and it's probably not as simple as this, but Schwartz did play a lot of man coverage here over 63% of the time. Highest rate for any defense in a game this season, Brock Purdy against man coverage in that game, five percent. 16 for 88 yards and two sacks. So that was part of it. I think Schwartz did good,

good things about the talent disparity up front, his pass rush, some stunts, some five-man pressures against the 49ers, had him confused, got some free rushers there, did not get fooled by all the eye candy, the shifts, the motions, all those things. And so it is a very different approach than the Vic Fangio tree, I think. Maybe you'll tell me I'm wrong. But, you know, that, hey, live in a too high shell and then disguise coverages and maybe you rotate to something or not. I mean, Jim Schwartz was playing cover one off the bus in that game, a little old school and not complicated, so complicated up front. And so Jim Schwartz is doing a phenomenal job with this Brown's defense. Their first in EPA per drive, their first in success rate. And again,

they got some help with the weather and the injuries, no doubt about it on Sunday. But he seems to do a good job over and over again against Shanahan's offenses. All right. What do you think, Ben? Did I convince you? So I very much agree that like Schwartz. No, Schwartz does a very good job against Shanahan's offense. We talked about this on Friday where Shannon's offense is like,

I'm going to make your linebackers wrong. And Jim Schwartz's defense is like, my linebackers are always wrong, brother. Here we go. There's a simplicity and aggressiveness that when you have 11 guys keyed in works really, really well, not just against Shanehan. It works really well against everybody, right? It's just playing hard to beat. enormous huge games from Miles Garrett, obviously.

Delvin Tomlinson was lights out in this game. Reddelp it. Box safety, man. I mean, they are playing nickel defense. They ain't playing with three backers against like heavy fronts and condensed fronts and clear run fronts. Usually that's a three you play with base defense. That's what Shannon is trying to get you into. And the Brown stayed in nickel.

And they asked Grant Delper and Rodney McLeod to step up as linebackers and fit some gaps. Holy smokes. Grant Delpa played out of his mom. MVP of the defense. Brown's fans want me to renege on JOK, Jeremiah Osu Kromoa. I'm absolutely not going to. He was fine in this game. It was one of the better games of the season.

Listen, if you don't like my preseason takes about JOK, and then at week six, you get to go, oh, Ben, where are those JOK takes? My only question, what happens week one through five? I don't know. Anyway, all together, though, extremely good performance of the Brown scene that just played very upfield, very, very aggressive, very fast.

Now, the, like, schematic impacts of this, like, okay, like, what are the next offenses do, next defense is do against the Shanhan offense? It's the man coverage is the thing you can't replicate, right? You have, you have Newsom and you have Ward and you have Martin Emerson and you have the ability, Juan Thorne Hill, you have the ability to play with man coverage, Grant Delpit. You have the ability to play with man coverage in the secondary and you match up really well, especially once Debo goes down, right? And you're dealing with Juan Jennings and Ray Ray Ray McLeod instead of having to deal with Debo and Iuke together. that those those horses in the secondary are just hard to replicate across the league right you don't necessarily have three guys you feel you can match up with iuk and debo and kiddle all the way across the field and the the niners had their shots man they had a brand and iuk drop on what it could

have been a big play potentially a touchdown uh bert purdy missed christian mcalfrey on what should have been a touchdown missed george kittle on what could have been a touchdown probably more like he gets tackled inside the 10 inside the five uh and then they had a uh uh a throw to iuke where Purdy hits him, but it hits him out of stride, slows Iuk down, and then Iuke gets tackled in space. Like the Brown's defense played really well. Purdy left a lot of meat on that bone. When you go and you listen to the Shanahan Presser,

Shanahan's talking a lot about like, we made so many mistakes in this game, and he's right. I think that the Brown's defense played well, but I don't think it's blueprinty against this offense. And I do think that you run that game back a thousand times and you change the weather in a few of them. I think the Niners are able to score more points and win the game. Obviously, they have a game winning kick at the end.

that Fangio defense was a blueprint because it was doing new schematic stuff and that schematic stuff was valuable. This Schwartz defense isn't a blueprint because it's just 11 dogs. It's just we're going to have 11 guys play real fast, real simple, real aggressive. And like that philosophy can have a renaissance in the NFL, I think. Like a lot of these Fangio defenses are slower

and they make you think and they have a lot of checks. And this defense is like, hey, keep it simple, stupid. I think that philosophy can have a renaissance. Schematically, Schwartz hasn't been reinventing. He didn't re-event a wheel and he hasn't. been reinventing a wheel for a decade, man. He's been lining up and playing, which we love him for. Which is how I prefer my defenses to play. Okay, have you met defensive players? They don't, all this Van Geotree has ruined the NFL, all this preventing explosive plays.

But now, you get your dudes, you get them playing with aggression. You know, every defensive coordinator says play physical, play aggressive. That's what it looks like when you have a team like the Cleveland Browns, the way they've played through the first six weeks of the season. So let's get more towards that. Just hit the quarterback. You don't have dope. for think it. You can play some more man coverage. They're not going to bite you. You know, he's had to play band coverage with different personnel. It's not just in this game. He's had to do different things against you. And I agree. I pretty much think anything about a blueprint is almost always wrong. So I think the 49ers are going to be

fine. The 49 else will probably score, I don't know if they're on by or play next week. They'll probably score 35 points. And hopefully they get those guys back healthy and they'll be fine. I just wanted to give a little love to the man, Jim Schwartz, for the job he's doing. The main thing here that must be done is just an enormous shout out in the top five Browns defensive call by you. Because that was a bold take. A lot of people are like Brown's defense is going to be good. You came over the top on everybody with that one. And certainly over the top of me, where I was like, yeah, I mean, they'll be good.

But, like, Dalman Tomlinson can't be that impactful. Like, Sedaria Smith is going to be that impactful. Like, I had JOK concerns. I had safety concerns. I mean, yeah, they're more than any defense in the league right now playing in concert on the same page and maximizing their stars. right? It's a great unit to watch. Jim Schwartz head coach Los Angeles Chargers 2024. Please and thank you. Listen, just don't look up any more of my preseason takes. All right, let's take a break. We'll be right back. All right, we are back on extra point taking. All right, Benjamin. I got not in what direction you're going to go in this week. Normally, I feel like I have a little beat. I'm like, okay, this guy played well. I know Solac is going to be really excited about this. I maybe check your tweets. I don't think I checked any of your tweets today. I don't know what direction you're going in. Go ahead.

You scroll my tweets? You're checking notes. I sometimes like to look. I mean, I do check from time to time. I'm not like you, like 24-7, you know, on their best way to communicate with the person. But go ahead. Shield, the Houston Texans are making the playoffs. Oh, this is a good lead into my next take.

All right, what do you got? Give me the reason why. All right. The Houston Texans are three and three. They are game back in the division of the Jags, one their last three. They're four and two. And the Colts are also three and three. Anthony Richardson, it's reported likely to be out for the season with shoulder surgery.

That sucks. Bummer, big bummer. He's been so freaking fun to watch. And what was the one thing that Richardson needed, Sheal? So one thing, we all said when he came out. He needs one thing. What does he need? He needs reps.

He needs experience. He's got to play. And he's going to be out of the rest of the season. That's terrible. So I think this is a two-horse race division-wise, Jaguars and Texans. Now, the Texans have already beaten the Jaguars once. When we go and we look at the Texans' remaining schedule, I'm here going off of Impredictible, the extra point Taken's preferred site for future strength of schedule.

Great website. Impredictable has future strength of schedule based off of betting markets. The Texans with the third easiest schedule remaining down the stretch. They're entering their byweek this week. And then they get the Panthers, the Buccaneers, Bengals, Cardinals, Jaguars again, Broncos, jets, Titans, Browns, Titans, Colts. I walked through that just a quick win loss off of how I would make it right now. and if we take out that Jaguars game,

I have the Texans with a six-win, three-loss stretch, which would put them at 10 and 6 off of, but without that Jaguars game. That game against Jacksonville, week 12, it's in Jacksonville. I feel it's going to probably be a division-defining a game potentially for the Texans. I also do think with a seven-game series here,

with a seven-team playoff, you do have the potential to still sneak in as a wild card, even in a very contentious AFC. If you go and look back, 10 wins can probably still get it done. It kind of depends on divisional tiebreakers and conference tiebreakers. We won't know more about it than we get there. But there's two reasons why I like the Texans for the division over the Jaguars.

Like I said, they already have the win over the Jaguars. One reason is Jacksonville related. This Jaguar's team has won three games. I watch them and just offensively. I agree with you. Like the charges aren't as good as they should be offensively, but I watch them and I go, okay, I get what the problems are and I feel like this can be solved and I feel like they're going to hit a stride.

The Ravens, the Ravens are not nearly as good offensively as they should be but I watch them. The Chiefs, they're not as good as they should be offensively, but I watch them. I'm like, I get how this is going to work. I watch this Jaguars team, and I'm just like, man, I do not understand what you're trying to achieve right now as a team. I don't get the identity.

I'm worried about, like, how off base Lawrence seems with his receivers at times. Like, him and Calvin don't get on the same page. Him and Kirk aren't on the same page. This offensive line doesn't play as well as it should as consistently as it should. Like, I'm positive they're a fine offensive line. And then on like a first and, on like a second and three, they'll have like gorgeous pass protection. And on the one third and nine that matters, like four of them lose.

Running game-wise, they get ETIN and they'll feed him, and then he'll get hot and have a couple good runs. They immediately get Tank Bigsby in the game. I don't know what Tank Biggs was doing for you. I don't understand this Jack's offense. And then defensively, they're playing well. They're good against the run, and they're trying to improve as a pass-rush unit. I think they still need more help there to be serious. But Jacksonville, they're testing my patience.

They're leaving the door open. I don't see them as a team that's taking the step. And we want to like Jacksonville. We were both very bullish on Jacksonville coming into the season. I'll let you continue on Houston in a second. But I totally agree with you. I mean, you look at just their scale. Oh, they've won three in a row by, what is it, 38 points.

They must be clicking. They must be the team I thought they were going to be coming in. And I watch all those games. And every game leaves like a bad taste in my mouth. Like, this isn't what I thought it was going to look like. I thought it was going to look different than this. Trevor Lawrence, by the way, day to day for that Thursday, night football game against the Saints. But yeah, I'm on the same page with you with the Jaguars.

Like four and two point differential. You look at all the advanced stats and you'd be like, okay, yeah, they look like they're making the leap to contender. My eyes are not telling me that when I watch the Jaguars every week. So we're on the same page there. Yeah, so the Jaguars, it just smells funky. That's the long and the short of it. So that's the first reason. The second reason is, I remember preseason where you and I say, you were talking about the Panthers making the playoffs. And I was like, how many rookie quarterbacks make the playoffs? and you go and you look back, it's just really hard for a rookie starter

to make the playoffs. I think if you blindfolded me, turned me around 10 times, maybe watch CJ Stroud film. I think he's in his fifth year. Holy Moses. I cannot get enough of this guy. This is,

he is not playing good football the way we're used to seeing rookie quarterbacks play good football. When we see rookie quarterbacks play good football, they are inviting mistakes, and they're inviting chaos, and they have rookie moments, but then they're able to also,

like get some stuff done and they're able to rely on their on their on their positive plays rely on their peak plays they're also typically if you think about like 2016 DAC they're typically getting high tier play from their supporting cast and then they're just able to let that maximize they're able to let a running game in an offensive line dictate they're a lot of star wide receiver dictate cj shroud is the driving force on this offense he is the best player on the texans offense i don't think it's close they've been underwhelmed by damien pierce right they are they are they are squeezing juice from a stone on Robert Woods. They're handing a jet sweep handoffs to Xavier Hutchinson.

All right. Bobby Sloick's doing good stuff, but this ain't Ben Johnson, right? He's just running like the good shanty stuff. And Stroud is making this stuff work. When I comp Stroud to Jared Gough in the draft, I meant like 2017 golf. I didn't mean now Gough,

where Gough's like nine years into league and has seen everything. It is an unbelievable rookie season from CJ Trout. I cannot say enough about it. this Saints game, he was pressured on like 38% of his dropbacks. Just taking body shots or body shot dropping 25-yard dimes on Nico Collins in man coverage. Do you know how good the Saints man coverage is? It suffocates teams.

It ruins games. It kills offenses. Nico Collins gets a hair of separation in the balls there. Stroud is paramount. I cannot remember a rookie quarterback season quite like this in terms of the polish in terms of the offensive control. I cannot, I cannot buy enough CJ shroud stock. I think as this season continues and this offensive line gets a little bit more healthy,

settles into place as the young receivers continue to grow. And then defensively, D'Miko, my son, all right? D'emico Rines, I love a D'Amico Rines. Seven pressures for John Grenard, seven pressures for Will Anderson, who looks incredible. Seven pressures for Jerry Hughes. They have a two deep in the front that allows them to rotate and to get pressure. They've got like 19 injuries at linebacker. They've had safety to go down.

Derek Stingley's gone down. They just throw a Blake cashman out there and start getting impact plays. Obnoxious. I think this Texans team is going to be a double-digit-win team. I think they're going to make playoffs. You know how much I like bursting your bubble

when you get excited about a player. You can't do it. You can't. The Texans are immune. My general inclination is, all right, you'll find a way to take the other side. All right.

It's not fun. I agree with everything about C.J. Strout. You said fifth year, I think in one of my notes here on, like, when I was like, I wrote 8th. eight-year. He looks like an eight-year vet. He's so polished. He is in full control. He knows where to go on every play. He doesn't make bad decisions. He rarely misses. Like, he missed a throw every now and then,

like most quarterbacks. But my gosh, he is so accurate. You know what I like? The man pushes the ball down the, you said it. A Dennis Allen coached top five defense probably, the Saints, and he's like, I'm pushing the ball down the field. Cats don't do your checkdown since. No, he wants to push it down the field. You can see it's inside of him. I want to be aggressive. I want to take the shot. He was taking those shots on Sunday against the Saints. Like the overall numbers aren't, you know, aren't going to wow you, but the experience of watching him, I totally agree. I don't know how many quarterbacks? Yish, it might be like six. Like, how many teams would not trade their quarterback for C.J. Stroud right now, knowing that he is on a rookie contract. Oh, man.

I mean, man. Like, there are teams that wouldn't do it just because you don't do that. kind of thing, but the ones that would actually do it if you were just like, hey, like, you would actually do this, right? You know, the ones that would say yes. Now, I think he looks terrific. I like everything about what I'm seeing from C.J. Stroud. I agree with you. I don't remember ever. And I'm trying to think back. And I'm probably wrong. I really don't remember watching a rookie quarterback that was good in the way that C.J. Stroud is good. Where you're like, like, like, he looks like he did, what? Did he have like, did we all get frozen in time? And he had like five years where he just got to get reps in the NFL that we didn't see.

And then they said he's starting his rookie year and we're not aware of it. Or that's what it feels like watching him. So you've got them, so you've got them winning 10 games and winning the division or a wildcard. I have them winning 10 games without that Jags game. And if they win the Jags, like I think they could be legitimately 11 and 6. Like again, when you walk it through, they have the biote. They get the Panthers. I think they win that.

They get the Bucks. I think they win that. Bengals might is probably a loss. Jets might be a tough game. Browns' like a tough game. They still play the Titans twice, and you have to lose to the Titans. You don't get to just beat the Titans.

No, nobody beats the Titans twice. It's like the team of destiny for the next decade if you beat the Titans twice in December. So Browns, Jets, Bengals, and then one Titans game, that's four more losses on your schedule. But other than that, Garner Minshu Colts,

like Zach Wilson, the Broncos, the Cardinals, the Buccaneers, the Panthers, like if they can handle business against the Jags, and be 2-0 against that team, potentially go 4-2 against the division, that should be good enough to win it against this Jags team. Even if it isn't, again, 10-11 wins might get you in the wildcard round.

It kind of depends on Dolphinsbill shakes out. Now, the AFC North shakes out. But yeah, for a perspective, because, like, it's difficult. When I go and I go to find data, and I want to talk about how good this rookie season is for C.J. Shroud. You go and you look, he's like among rookie quarterback since 2004. He's 12th in success rate. he's right below Baker Mayfield.

And it's like, okay, like, when Baker was playing his rookie season, like, we knew it wasn't this. Like, it just was very clear that it wasn't, right? When you go to EPA per dropback, it's the same thing. He's like 13th, I want to say. Yeah, he's, oh, no, he's ninth, right? And he's between Justin Herbert and Cam New and he's below Brock Purdy. So, like, those were two great rookie seasons, by the way,

Justin Herbert and Cam Newton. It's 2016 DAC. It's 2012-Griffin. It's 2004 Rothesberger. And Matt Ryan Russell Wilson at the top. Like, those seasons are better numbers-wise. and I can't pretend to have really been analyzing the game in 2004 when Rathsburger started his rookie season.

I started second grade. But it does not feel like rookie quarterbacks. Look at like Purdy in San Francisco. Deshawn, when he was a rookie quarterback on this Houston team, like maybe that's like a good comparison because that Houston team wasn't great. But he sold Hopkins. Like you can't find a rookie season.

Matt Wright had Julio, man. You can't find a rookie season where the guy just had nothing and was playing like this. It's something to see. O-line injuries as well for that Texans team. Juice Scroggs is snapping the football heel. All right. Well, like I said, this leads to a good one because my next one is, I kind of teased this last

week. And I said next week will be through six weeks of the season. That's when I like to do a little reset after six after 12. So the three best coaches through the first third of the season have been. I know you want to guess. I'm not going to go ahead and give them to you. You know one of them because I just said it's a good. If it leads it nicely, DeVico's one of them, right?

He's one of them. All right. Do you have the other two? These are the three best, three best coaching jobs through the first six weeks of the season. I had to leave two guys off that were very hard because I was like, should I do five? No, Shill, you can't need five. Like, we don't have that much time, so I stuck to three. I feel like Mike McDaniels got to be on the list.

He's got to be on the list. Yeah, okay. So two for two. I'm not going to look at your expression. My heart says Dan Campbell. I'm scrolling through the teams right now just to make sure. It's not going to be horrible. they've lost some dumb games.

Yeah, Dan Campbell for three. All right. Again, this is getting scary. I'm becoming way too predictable and we're talking to each other too much. All right, those are the three. The two I left off are the two guys who get enough pop. And that's Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan, who I think have both done fantastic jobs through the first six weeks of the season.

But let me tell you why I settled on these three. Mike McDaniel, it's pretty easy, right? Look at this offense. I mean, my question coming into the season, what's his plan B? Does he have a plan B? Is this going to be like a Chip Kelly type situation? All they've done through six games is have the most efficient offense through six weeks of the season in the last 10 years. That's based on success rate, also based on the fact that they're averaging over 37 points per game through the first six weeks of this season. They got down 14-0 on Sunday. I feel like I did this whole spiel last week when they turned the ball over three times against the Giants.

Well, guess what? Then against the Panthers. They get down 14-0, and you could not find anyone who would have thought they're going to lose that game. All they do, they come back, they score 35 in a row. I mean, it's incredible what Mike McDaniel is doing with that team. I am all on board. I mean, I think if I had to pick like a sleeper Super Bowl team, that would be my sleeper Super Bowl team right now. I don't even know if they're a sleeper anymore. We'll see.

I haven't looked at the odds recently, but yeah, he absolutely has to be on there. By the way, another guy, you know, for all these coaches who will be making. excuses. You know, I don't like excuse maker coaches, Benjamin. Nope. Mike McDaniels had some injuries. Tehran Armstead has played in what two games. They don't have a great offensive line. Jalen Waddle missed a game in there. Jalen Ramsey has not played. Guess what? They're one of the best teams in the NFL. Devon A Shane out as well now. There you go. Another one. All right, so that's one.

Dan Campbell. I had to put Dan Campbell on here. I mean, this team is five and one. You go back to last year of this Lions team. They are 13 and three in their last 16 games. teams. Talent wise, I actually look at it and I'm not like, it's kind of like what you were saying last week. I'm not like, this team's loaded. Like they should be five at one. They should be 13 and three. I'm like, they have a lot of good players that I like, but it's like they're getting more, I think, out of the out of the hole than the individuals there for Dan Campbell. Their top 10 in offensive and defensive success rate, they have a better point differential than the Eagles and the Cowboys in the NFC. Their only loss was in overtime to the Seahawks. They

beat the chiefs on the road. Like, they've done so many good things this season. And part of it, by the way, is a head coach is you got to assemble a good staff. And we talk about Ben Johnson a lot. Well, guess what? Dan, he's Dan Campbell's offensive coordinator. He stayed last offseason. Like, that's meaningful too. They play hard. What we talked about with the Chargers, the lions are the opposite of that. They have an identity. I know what I'm getting when I watch a Lions game, win or lose how they're going to play that. Craig Reynolds block that I'm sure a lot of people have seen from Sunday. I mean, that just is like, okay, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, uh, right there, which I mean,

when's the last time we were like, this lion's team has an identity and it wasn't making fun of them like Matt Patricia. I mean, it's been a while. They execute well. They've dealt with injuries. Also, they don't make excuses. Dan Campbell belongs on there. And then Demico Ryan's, I mean, you just pretty much made the case. I mean, they've already matched their win total from last year. And we're recording this, uh, it just flipped over to October 17th. And again, assembling a coaching staff, hardest part for a new coach. I like what they got there with the O.C. It's not perfect, but they're doing more with less.

They're helping to develop C.J. Stroud, three and three with a plus 22 point differential. They've just looked like a very good team. I'm not all in with the playoff take. I like it. Their defense still, to me, I just think the guy, talent wise, personnel wise, I think they have some shortcomings there that you saw a little bit last week. against the Saints. But those are my three. Who did I...

Do you disagree with any of those? And did I leave anyone off who you say, you should maybe put this guy on? If I, I mean, if I predicted all three, then I got to agree, right? Well, no, you're got it in my head with the prediction. Your head could be different. Well, the problem is we have the same head, Sheel. I got bad news for you. Right now,

if you look at Coach of the Year odds, Dan Campbell leads a plus 270. Mike with Daniel, close second, and plus 300. Third, Damico Ryan's a plus 1, man. I mean, it's, those are the three guys at the top. Really? I didn't look at those when I made this list. Kyle Shanahan is plus 1,200. So he's a close fourth.

Fifth is Robert Sala, plus 1,700. Sure. Robert Sala, by the way, talking cash money after being the Eagles, talking a lot of cash money after being the Eagles. We embarrassed top quarterbacks. Dak Prescott completed 80% of his passes against them. Whatever. Those three are the appropriate.

When you're asking the kicker if you should go for it or not, and just taking delay. Talking cash. I know that's just a small thing. Campbell, yeah. The Lions have now won four consecutive games. They won all of them by double digits. It's the first time it's happened since I'm pretty sure the 60s

that the Lions have won four consecutive games by double digits. Oh my gosh. This is time. And they have won the games of a different character, right? Their defense has won some for them. Their offense has won some for them. They have different players have stepped up. You brought up Ben Johnson on the staff.

Aaron Glenn, man. This defense is playing. And the best player on this defense is Aidan Hutchinson. I think that Hutch has taken a nice leap in in year two. The second best player on this defense, Cam Sutton. My mind went to Brian Branch, which he might not be yet. A Lee McNeil, right? But either way, like we're talking about a rookie second round nickel,

a corner who is available in free agency, or a rookie contract defensive tackle who's improved year over a year. Like, talk about a coaching job by that. staff, who's going to have a lot of players playing now at the best level of their careers. Alex Anzolone, Derek Barnes, or previously mentioned McNeil, Charles Harris, first-round pick, cast off by multiple teams found a home there. They are, they're doing good work on both sides of the ball. If I had a genie and three wishes over the next month of the NFL season, first wish out of my

mouth that those lines get a star, absolutely. Get a Devante Adams, get a Patrick Sturtain, get a Brian Burns, go get me somebody. I want to believe in this team so much to get the Ravens that we, week seven. Gosh, I want them to beat the Ravens. I want them to beat the Ravens by 20. So I can just sit here and say, I have loved this rebuild since year one.

I believe in the staff since year. I love the way the Lions did this. It's the exact blueprint of how a rebuild should work. But I need them to get over that hump and really have some star talent to them. They wanted James and Williams to be that. I don't know if they're going to get that from James and Williams. They wanted Jamir Gibbs to be that.

Don't know if you're going to get that from Jamir Gibbs. I think they still need out a star. So yeah, the Lions in particular, such a good job. They have to come over the crest here. really, really do it with how they manage personnel or how they bring along those young players over the rest of the season. All right. Other two, Shanahan and self-explanatory, just real quick on McFay. I think we talked about him recently. I mean, I thought they were going to stink this year. I didn't think that offense had a chance. Old quarterback, bad offensive line, one wide receiver

who I knew about, and then he was out for the first month of the season. And guess what? That's been a top five offense by any metric you looked at. They've really kind of resurrected that thing this last week against the Cardinals. They come out slow in the first half. and they come out in the third quarter, run the ball eight straight times and just kind of get Kairn Williams going. And then Stafford makes some unbelievable throw. So they're only three and three, but I think that's a little misleading. I think that's been a very good team so far this season. And I've been impressed with the job McVeigh has done. All right, what do you got for your third take, Benjamin? I remember when I made that little like, oh, the Texas are going to lose to the Titans joke?

Well, it's time for the Titans to tank. This is a team that has hung around, 500 is hung around entering the postseason has been such an excellent spoiler maker of a team for so long now under Mike Ravel, just a tough team, a hard out, great team in there, an underdog. But the attrition on the roster has slowly built up over time, right? It's great to be that when Derek Henry is 27. Once Derek Henry starts to approach 30, right, once A.G. Brown is out of the building, right? You start to lose some of that star talent. It becomes harder and harder to do that.

Well, now we're sitting here with a Ryan Tannihill injury. Jeremy Fowler reports of ESPN that it's a high right ankle sprain. Availability in the coming weeks is now a question. It's the same ankle on which he had surgery last off season. So we had to Tannahill ankle injury last season. We have another one this season. Tannahill now is 34 going on 35. Tannahill has a bit of a prime big band-in-name where he just kind of hangs in that pocket

and takes body shots and it counts up over time. It really, really does. But when you look at this team and consider how they won games under Vrable and what worked for them. The defensive line was always such a huge part of this team, such a huge strength of this team, and appropriately so, continues to be so. They're getting great play out of Kyle Pecco.

Ever watching Kyle Pecoe film? I mean, he was all over the film against the Ravens. Sure, why not? He's replacing Jeffrey Simmons. They have Tearic Tartre who's primarily underrated. DeNiq O'Don-Latry, Harold Landry, Arden Ki, they signed a pre-egette. They have their guys.

They went and got Isis Al-Shayir, who was a Rand Carth in San Francisco guy. They have some dudes on defense, and that's great. secondary-wise, they're struggling. Kevin Byard remains an impactful free safety star there, but the corner room has been a big liability this season, and they're giving up in past defense accordingly.

That's not the sort of defense that you want to give up offensively, or give up in the current league in a pass-happy league, and then offensively. I mean, Nick Westbrook-Kekina is the primary snap getter right now at receiver. He has more snaps than Diadre Hopkins. Hopkins is the only legitimate target that they have. Trayland-Burks dealing with injury for the second year in a row, so they're playing

Chris Moore and Kyle Phillips. Derek Henry is getting spelled by Tai J. Spears, who's like a nice little player, but this ain't no, Bejohn Robinson coming through the mountains here to kind of like save the rushing attack. Offensive line. Aaron Brewer,

Chris Hubbard, Andre Dillard. Like, they've lost, like, if you go and you look back at those Titans teams, they were defined by like Ben Jones and Nate Davis and Taylor LeWan,

Roger Saffold, Jack Conklin. They're all gone. The entire offensive line has turned over in the last five years. And the quality of, play is just cratered. This is a two and 14 with no light at the end of the horizon. There's two ways to get

one. The first is to have a really nice performance from either Malik Willis or Willis. The two young quarterbacks that you've recently drafted as potential Tannhill replacements. You watch any Malik Willis film recently? That was tough on Sunday. It's just not just not NFL speed.

That was painful. Just cannot play the game up at NFL speeds right now, which is a really tough thing to see. Maybe reps help. I think that's a long shot and then this is the guy that's keeping Will Levis out of the QB2 spot. Like, I liked Will Levis. I thought Levis could be a Tannahill in the league. I don't think the coaching staff likes Will Levis very much, given the current vibes that we're getting out of Tennessee.

He has dealt with injury, but still, I don't know if that light on the horizon, that light at the end of the tunnel is on the roster. For me, if you're Tennessee, when you're in this desperate need of just an infusion of talent, right? You had a contending core in the late 2010s. A lot of them have aged out. A lot of them have ended up on other teams. You've moved on from John Robinson.

You got a new general manager. You kind of got to just scrap down or tear down in order to rebuild. I think it's important for this Titans team that they end up with a high draft bag, which gives them either the ability to move on to a quarterback or the ability to accumulate further capital, look at the potential of a Tannahill trade and prepare for the future. They've done such a nice job scrapping along for so long. It's such a cool team, such a cool culture around the coach. But man, this does feel like the end of the line.

It does. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I mean, I just feel like they're probably not going to be bad enough to land a top two pick. And as you've made the point recently, if you're not in the top two, you might be out a lot. Tanking might not get you anywhere. So, yeah, I mean, this could be a natural tank if Tana Hills out and those other quarterbacks have to play, even though they found ways to be competitive with different guys. It's been unbelievable with Mike Vrable.

And I think that will continue, which is some of the guys they have defensively. But yeah, I'm with you. You know, if it's trading a Kevin Byrd, if it's trading a DeAndre Haub, if there's any draft capital to be gained here before the deadline to move on from those guys, I would agree with, yeah. I mean, this felt like the last legs of Tannahilt going into this year. You were like, are they, they're really going to do this again? And now that they're doing it again, you're like, all right, that finally has to be it. I don't have an issue with the draft picks they've made. Like, I think it's fine to take flyers on quarterbacks because there's so much upside.

one of those guys hits. So I think that's fine. But as you said, we have no indication here that either of those guys, Willis or Levis, is going to hit. All right. Take a quick break. Come back. I will give you my third take and you will finish with the extra point. All right. We are back on extra point taking. So last week, So like, you got to give me, you were just firing off trades left and right. And I said, oh, come on. I want some of that. I want some of that action. The trades haven't happened yet. Let me throw. some of these out there. So I've got three here. And you need to tell me who says no. You need to tell me, am I giving this a thumbs up from both sides? Am I given this a thumbs up from one side?

So here's what we got. Chiefs trade a day two pick. I'm thinking maybe a third that turns into a second if conditions are met to the, what you think you know? What do you got? Go ahead, guess. Patrick Boren's the one I want. No. I've got Hollywood Brown, the Arizona Cardinals. wide receiver, Hollywood, Brown. Brown has 334 yards in six games. I think he's played pretty well. He's in the last year of his deal. This would be a half-year rental.

Add a little juice to that Chiefs passing game. Brown, Travis Kelsey, Hirashi Rice, maybe someone else emerges at Cadarius Tony, whatever, just gives you another option. I don't like the Chiefs going into the postseason with this offense as currently constructed. I feel pretty strongly that they need to do something.

You mentioned Kendrick Bourne. What about the team you just mentioned? We know that they were interested in D'Andre Hopkins before the season, right? Like they were in the mix to sign D'Andre Hopkins. Now he becomes a lot cheaper because the Titans paid for the signing bonus and everything. Maybe you trade for D'Andre Hopkins. So Hopkins and Brown were the two guys I mentioned, let's say, again, a third that turns into a second if certain conditions are met. Which team is saying yes?

Which team is saying no? Do you like either of those deals? I think the Cardinals are saying yes. I don't know. Chiefs-Chiefs-Ly's, do you want to go half-year rental? I feel like if you're going to get a guy, you want to get a guy who at least has a couple years for you because you don't want to be back in the same problem next season.

Well, yes, but I think the half-year rental guys are the ones that are easier to obtain for less draft capital for this year. Like if you're telling me, Justin Jefferson, then, yeah, let's give up everything and get him for the long term. But those guys generally are not the ones who are going to be available, unless I'm missing somebody. No, so, I mean, like, that's the thing is I think that you might just be dealt that hand, right? Kendrick Bourne is a half-year rental.

Darnal Mooney is the speedster that interests me for the Chiefs because of the Matt and Nagy connection, but also like, Darnal Mooney had some spicy stuff to say after Nagy left. But he was also a thousand-yard receiver under Nagy. I don't know. Maybe we can mend some bridges. I don't know how hard of a tank the bears are going to be in. It kind of depends on this Justin Fields injury. But Darnel Mooney just kind of doesn't matter to the bear's passing offense anymore.

They have young guys behind him, Speedster guys behind him, Bealos Jones and Tyler Scott, so I could see them moving off of him. But Marquis Brown is still one that you like. I am the world's biggest Markis Brown detractor and have been for years. And so I think it'd be...

Yeah, I wouldn't say he's like my favorite receiver in the NFL, but you know, you're looking at the options here. Yeah. Yeah. He would have value as a speedster and field stretcher, but I wonder if they feel like

they already have that with MBS. He would have value as like a behind the line of scrimmage guy or it's schemed up touches. I wonder if they feel like they already have that in Tony. They shouldn't, but that's clearly what they feel like they want Tony to be. And then in the middle, I feel like possession guy is the guy you want.

And so I wouldn't mind it. But I'd be curious, if the chiefs do that, I'll have questions about how much it actually helps their offense. All right. So if both Brown and Hopkins are on the table for the same price you're taking... Hopkins without blinking, dude.

Without blinking, yeah. Okay, there you go. Yeah, I was thinking that with Brown and MBS too, but I mean, Brown has been a more productive player than MVS for sure. All right, that was trade number one. I've got two more for you.

Seahawks trade a second and a third to the Panthers for Brian Burns. Oh! This is the same comp as the Von Miller trade. Remember when the Rams acquired Von Miller from the Denver Broncos? It's a tough one, but guess, again, it's a half-year rental. And then Brian Burns might want to hit free agency at the same time. Brian Burns might really like playing in Seattle. people generally like playing in Seattle once they get there.

They're like, oh, this is this kind of fun here. This is a nice place to live. And so maybe he stays there and maybe the Seahawks feel like it's worth the gamble. It's a second and a third. It's not like you're giving up to first here. We know the Panthers, or at least it's been reported, that they had a big deal on the table for Brian Burns' last trade deadline. They held on to him, but they still have not signed him to an extension.

They are now 0.6. Are they just going to keep him around and hope that they can sign him at the end of season. I feel like either you have to just be like, we're signing Brian Burns to a big extension and we're making him a core piece of this Panthers rebuild, or you have to trade him at the trade deadline and get something for him. I think it's organizational malpractice if you just hang on to him, have a terrible season, and then he leaves in free agency, although I guess you could use the franchise tag there. But I don't know. I kind of feel like he's on the list of like most likely guys to be dealt at the deadline. I thought about the Ravens for him also, Brian Burns.

that would be kind of fun. The problem is the Ravens have two top 20 edge rushers right now named Kyle Van Nuoy and Jadavian Clowney which is insane sentence in 20203. I looked up. I'm like, how many sacks did the Ravens have? Wait, the Ravens are like top five in sacks here?

How is it? Oh, they're doing that again. Okay, I got it. Just Jadavian Clowney shredding. Like, it's 2014. I don't know. Where was the last time? Clowny like actually did this as a pass rusher.

Anyway. What about the Lions? What about your Lions? Lions is a hard yes for your boy. I would love. Brian Burns of the Lions. The Seahawks are screaming yes to that. The Rams allegedly offered two ones and two twos for this guy.

You get to get him for a second and a third. Home run. Love that. I don't know if the Panthers take a price that low. And I think we just talked about the Ravens and the Lions. I think there's enough buyers you can drum up that price, even if you're doing it synthetically. And you can even, I think, reasonably say, like, hey,

like he's worth more than a two and a three. I know we're down bad. I know you've got us in a, a sucky spot and we mismanaged this, but we're not going to move for a two and three. That's just too much egg on our face. And the sales would be like, yeah, okay, like, here's a one. Like, I think, like, I think that that can happen.

A one for half a season you think they can get. You got, you have to go immediate extension. But I feel like you can and you, and, and be comfortable doing so. And it's getting tricky, though. I mean, then it's getting tricky. You better be ready to pay because if you're Brian Burns, why on earth are you motivated to sign an extension in the middle? when you're nine weeks away from becoming a free agent on the open market and getting

bidders from all over the place, that has to be top, top of the market deal for you to sign that extension. So it does get a little bit tricky. So like if we're looking deals-wise, Nick Bose at the $34 million deal, I feel like that you're probably not getting that one. Alex Highsmith, excuse me, signed for half that at 17 per. So you're coming between those two numbers. Bradley Chubb recently at 22 per with the Dolphins, Trey Hendrickson 21 per. You're coming in over both those. I think Max Crosby 235, Kulal, Mac 235,

that's where we start having the conversation, right? No, I think you're low. I think that's low when you, because those guys signed their deals longer ago. I mean, Bosa reset the market at $34 million. So yes, you might not get $34 million, but I think Brian Burns, when he signs, will at least be in like the 27-ish, $28 million range, I think. All right.

So last, this was summer of 2022. No, it was March. Excuse me, March of 2022. The Raider signed Max Crosby, who at the time was 25, four years, 98.98 million. 53 million guaranteed. I call Brian Burns and I say, four years, 110, right? So I'm out of 10 million to that.

That's what now? that's 27.5 per, right? And 60 million guaranteed. I think Burns has taken that. I think Burns has taken that. And I think you're happy with that, right? You're coming in at Miles Garrett money, which is not Garrett, but that's inflation.

Like, that's just the cost of doing business. Probably. These guys work very hard to get that opportunity at the one contract where they can cash in. So there is an appeal to just say, I'm chilling. I'm not signing anything. I just want to see how things go in March and see how many teams interested at that. The only way you know your actual worth is if you get every team,

as many teams involved as possible and see there. All right. So you think maybe the compass a little bit. Yeah, you're right. I think a team would be willing to give up more if they could sign him to an extension. I definitely do agree with that. All right, my last one here. I know all the reporting is telling me Kurt Cousins is staying put. Yeah. There were like, there were like seven different outlets that reported this on Sunday. There was clearly some messaging going on, but your boys in Atlanta bet. I mean, you got to at least call and say, we'll give you a second. Kirk, listen, Atlanta's a nice place.

You're going to be a free agent at the end of the season. Let's have a little trial run. You might really like playing, Arthur Smith calls him up. You might really like playing in my offense. I'm telling you, it works. If the quarterback does what I tell him to do, it's going to be really good if the quarterback doesn't make mistakes. It worked for a lot of plays on Sunday.

Man, that was an annoying game. I was so ready to come in here and dance on Falcons minus one and a half, man, or minus two and a half. Oh, brother, they looked, they were better by success rate. They were better by expected points. They were so, so good. And they just threw the game away. Success rate champions. Through the game away.

There you go. So listen, Arthur Smith's facial expressions after each one of those interceptions was telling me quite a bit. So I know this one probably not going to be. Okay, to be fair. After like a third and three false star, Arthur Smith looks like someone just shot his dog. Like this guy's at, this guy emoted on the sideline like no one I've ever seen. You know what? That is true.

I mean, I agree with you. He's clearly like very frustrated with Ritter and very frustrated those moments. But Smith always was killing me on the sidelines. That's true. He doesn't hide it. Yeah, I enjoy him, Arthur. If you're listening, I enjoy the facial expressions. Don't stop doing them.

So listen, I would at least make the call and say, do we want, let's do a little half-year trial run. This might be something we want to revisit after the season. It's only two months. You know, it's not that long. Let's see how it goes. The Falcons defense has definitely performed better than I expected. They've got good players on offense. You can see in those good plays that you mentioned,

that there is something there on offense. But, man, I don't know that you can just risk it this year with these up and down Ritter games. So those are my three. Would you do that if you are? If Arthur Smith called you up and said, Ben, you are a big Desmond Ritterbacker. I know Shield's talking all this noise

and telling me to call the Vikings for cousins. Should I do it or not? Come on, I don't have that much time. What should I do? What are you telling us? But remind me the compensation, say it again? The compensation is going to be a second round pick. Yeah, right?

I mean, it's quarterback. Started for a second, like, you can't not do it. Yeah, you do it. Yeah, you do it. If they do that, they're winning the NFC South. They're winning the NFL anyway. I know all the challenges of getting the quarter. I know it's hard.

The quarterback comes in, middle of the season. I know it's not easy, but Kirk Cousins has been in the league a long time. Arthur Smith is a good offensive coach. Like, you should be able to figure it out, I feel like. First things first, the Falcons are winning the NFC South anyway, all right? I guess somebody has to, yeah. The Texans are winning the AFC South take

was almost immediately chased by a Falcons are winning the NFC South take. I was very close to doing it, but I didn't want to get into ridder with you. Yeah, that was smart. Yeah, you make the trade. I think you make the trade and, right, you try to use the pick to entice Kirk to stay here for the next couple of years

and try to do the Tannhill thing again. It's not the prettiest thing in the world. You had the chance to push the Lamar Jackson issue and you didn't. You had the chance to draft top 10 quarterbacks and you didn't. Oh, my God. I was the, as I'm watching that game on Sunday morning, and then I'm watching the Falcons game later,

I'm going, what? Shield, this is why? This is why you have to tweet during games. I would do anything for you after Ritter's third pick of the game. They just treat out a jersey of Lamar Jackson and a falcons uniform. Like, that's good. Content, Sheel, and you're not giving it to us. First of all, I wouldn't even know where to begin with how to do that.

You Google a more Jackson jersey swap falcons. It's not hard. If somebody else has already done that, I just Google it. And then I steal their work. I have to credit them. Come on. Oh, my gosh. See, I'm a man of integrity.

Sheel. How would I credit them? It's never good when someone who in his life has received a swirley, when that person wants to give you a swirly. But when you said, I don't know how to find a jersey swap on the internet, And I don't know how to credit the person. I wanted to shove your head into a toilet. I mean, that's a lot of work.

See, this is why I don't tweet during games. I would have to Google that. I would have to a tribute. All of a sudden, I'm missing a whole quarter in a game. That's why I don't do it. All right, those were my three trades. So there you go. I think I got a yes from you on Cousins.

I got a, I think a kind of a yes from you on Burns and a yes from you on a chiefs trading for a wide receiver. All right. I think Seahawks, Falcons, and Cardinals would absolutely do it. The other sides of the sides to me that I would be. curious to see how they would approach it. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. All right. What do you got? Extra point taken. All right. Extra point taken. Where you squirrel away the secret takes that nobody can hear, because they aren't listening at the end of the show. The following teams are posers and will not

win the Super Bowl. Will not win the Super Bowl. Okay. I like the framing because you can't just say posers because I don't know what that means. I will not win the Super Bowl. Let's see, what are you got? The Buffalo Bills are posers and they're not going to win the Super Bowl. I'm so done with this team, dude. I was back in on this team after the Dolphins win. And then the injuries and defense really, really, really suck. Losing Dequan Jones, who's one of the best defensive tackles by pressure rate, by run, stops, success rate through the first four games is a terrible loss. The Trudevius White injury puts him in a Christian Benford, Kairil Elam,

potentially Josh Norman World that nobody wants to be in. Matt Milano was the leader and the linchpin of this defense. I know they're getting good play out of Terrell Bernard. I've been impressed by him. I know they're excited about Dorian Williams. I know they're trying to make it work. I think they've lost the horses defensively and then offensively. Well, I can't figure you guys out and I don't like that.

That makes me feel icky. But when they're in the playoffs and this take is ringing in my ears and Josh Allen's taking snaps, I'm like, shoot. They get three Josh Allen games. I'm screwed. They're winning the Super Bowl. But it really just feel, I doubt that they can string those together. And even if they do, the defense has got to stop somebody and I'm not sure they're going to be able to do that really

successful against the AFC playoff offenses. So the bills, until further notice, are posers and are not winning in Super Bowl. All right. I may disagree with you on that. I think the bills are a classic case of take a deep breath. Let's see what this thing looks like. After Thanksgiving, the last two weeks have been ugly. I agree.

Your concerns are valid. I think the conference is wide open, and they still have that guy playing quarterback, and they still have that guy playing wide receiver. Yeah, so I am not a no on the Buffalo. I think if you had be named six to six teams, that I think can win the Super Bowl, they're still on that list. All right, what do you got for the next one?

I mean, the bills are probably, the bill's like third of my power rankings right now. I just, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is gut feel, okay? This is deeply spiritual right now. Okay, I like that. This is fine. Here's my thing with the bills.

They have that great stretch, Raiders, commanders, dolphins. The offense looks great, and then they drop the ball a couple games. And then they're going to play the Patriots and the Buccaneers, the Bengles, and they're just to absolutely shred. They're going to play the Bengals and face Lou Anna Rumo and this incredible defense the Bengals have for another season.

And they're just going to be incredible. I'm like, I'm back. And then they're going to have a stinker against the Broncos. I don't pick, choose, be something and be it consistently. Because when you get to January football, you have to know where your bread is buttered. And it feels like this team can never, at one point they had like 11 Stefan Diggs targets on like 15 Josh Allen attempts. We all wanted more Diggs targets. Not like this.

The vacillations, it's too much. I don't like it. Bills are posers. I probably will take that take back. in four weeks. I'm allowed to do that. These are my rules. The second team, that is a poser, by the way, is those Cincinnati Bengals. Bangles aren't winning in Super Bowl. Love this Bengals defense.

Louan Rumo is a great DC. Joe Burroughs healthier. If Joe Burroughs healthier and the offense still looks like this, that's terrible news. Joe Burrow better still be hurt. For the offense, have 2.7% explosive pass rate. This is the most dreadful thing I've ever seen. This passing game is not sustainable. They've barely gotten through six weeks.

They're three and three. They're eking out close wins. You're not going to be able to get through an AFC playoff run like this, especially with the way that defensive players get to tee off on your receivers. It's terrifying, man. Like, T. Hagan's already obviously got banged up. I'm so worried about Jamar Chase getting hurt. I'm so worried about T getting consistently hurt.

Burrow obviously getting consistently hurt as well because they just invite so many shots. When you live in this like spread world, this quick throwing world, you're just taking body blow after body blow after body blow at the skill positions. To me, that's really, really scary. they have never shown the ability to have a consistent running game and to have a multifaceted offense. This offense looks like it cannot carry the team

through the playoffs. And defensively, like, you can try to make a run, but it's really hard to have a defense carry you through three games. Bengals are posers. That's my number two. How are you out on that?

Well, as the resident Bengals supporter at the ringer, I should disagree. That was one game, Bengals Seahawks. I didn't watch live. I watched it later. And, oh, baby, was high alarmed?

I came away more encouraged by the Seahawks and were alarmed by the Bengals, despite the final result there. Yeah, I mean, 214 yards of offense and 15 first downs. I mean, they had a lot of chances to put that game away. They made big plays and high leverage moments in the Red So with their defense, but that was concerning. Also, they have the third hardest remaining schedule. So, you know, I'm not going to count them out as long as Joe Bro did look healthy still

in that game. But yes, I have, I definitely have a lot of concerns about that. that fengles team, even after that win against the Seahawks. All right. Yeah. What do you got? Who's next?

The third and final posing team is the Philadelphia Eagles. Oh, I was waiting for it. I thought that was going to be it. Listen, we talk about the Eagles a lot on Philly Special. If you listen to us on that show, you've already heard a lot of this broken down. But guess what?

If you seriously, intentionally deploy a back seven that features Nicholas Morrow, Terrell Edmonds, Josh Job. I just can't take you seriously. I can't get there. We're going to learn a lot.

about the Eagles on their upcoming schedule, right? They're 5-1, they lose that game to the Jets, four turnovers. Okay, it feels super sloppy. They're going to be fine, right? Well, they play the Dolphins this upcoming week, and the Dolphins pass the ball on everybody, and this Eagle's secondary, like, legitimately, truly, I'm not exaggerating. Back seven, the Eagles are a bottom eight unit in the league, and they might be bottom five. Like, this is really, really rough play from their back seven.

After they play the Dolphins, you get a week off with the commanders, and then it's Cowboys, Chiefs, Bills, Niners, Cowboys, Seahawks. are going to learn a lot about this team. And I think what we're going to learn is that defensively, they cannot be expected to hold their water against playoff offenses. They need to consistently win shootouts. And right now, offensive coordinator-wise,

play-calling-wise, Lane Johnson injury-wise, I'm not sure they're ready to just win shoot-out after shoot-out after shoot-out. Until further notice, Eagles are posers. Panic after one loss. I mean, Jail-LAR goes 22-1. That is such a mischaracterization.

And you know it is because we talk Eagles every single week. And all of a sudden, scratch them off. Yeah, I mean, that was. Buddy, I was panicking when they were 4-0. All right. Do not put it in the newspaper. I panicked after one loss. Do not put in the newspaper.

Yeah, they have been uneven. And that felt certainly as comfortable, I would say, as it did last season. I kind of put them in there in the bills category. You know, we'll check back with me after Thanksgiving. They'll probably be there. Half of this podcast is willing to take a stand. Half of those podcast is willing to deliver Super Bowl takes in October. The other half wants to.

I can give you like 20 teams. Give me a 25 teams that I think suck. Wants to learn more about the teams? Not me. I'm playing flags. Poser, poser, poser, fake. Congrats to the Chiefs and the 49ers. Looking forward to the game.

There you go. Those are the Chiefs and the 49ers. Okay. There you go. I was like, all right. Why is he saying, not the dolphins? You should just go all in on the dolphins.

But I thought the dolphins weren't even going to make the playoffs and I'm almost ready to go all in on the dolphins. You should, you like the dolphins. Every single week, I check to see what the cash out options are on all my dolphins. That's just to feel good. Just like,

oh, not taking this. Yeah, no, no, it's going to be, it's going to be dolphins. Who do we want to come out of the NFC?

Dolphins Lions. Ah, the Ben Solac tape ball. Dolphins Lions, let's do it. All right, there you go. Dolphins Lions,

you can all skip the rest of the season, but please continue to listen to the podcast. Either way. All right, thank you to Ben Solac. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Not only this one, Christopher Sutton's going to get my Philly special Phillies

podcast up after this. Thank you very much, Christopher Sutton. Shill, wait, wait, you have to record another pot of this? Yeah, it's 12.50 a. Okay, break it down for us. Tell us what old man nap you took and what what substances you've imbibed to make sure you're feeling awake and jack right now. No? No. No, no nap at a big coffee around 9 a.m. this morning and had a nice little green tea as I watched. Listen, this is the best time of year. You're, you know, my team's in the baseball playoffs. We got football. I can, yeah, I can sleep in a little bit tomorrow.

All right, as I was saying, thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo for the video production. Additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna, Ram Gopal. The next episode will be Nora and Stephen with dual threat. Then Solac and I will be back on Friday. Don't miss that show. We got a competition that's heating up.

You're going to want to hear all about it. All right, thanks for listening. Have a great week. And we'll talk you on Friday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit Fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia.

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