The Ringer NFL Show - The Ndamukong Suh Sweepstakes, Gruden's Old Groove, and Belichick's College Tour | GM Street (Ep. 247)

Episode Date: March 21, 2018

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier sit down to talk offseason moves and trades, including where Ndamukong Suh could land after his many team visits, the Jets trading up for the third overall draft pick, possible draft angles for the Colts, the Patriots' offseason moves, Jon Gruden's veteran additions to the Raiders, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's episode of GM Street, we discussed the Indomicon Sue Sweepstakes, the New York Jax trading up in the draft, Tom Brady and ESPN's dominance rankings and more. And as always, we were brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you can listen to myself and Mark Titus talk about college hoops on one shining podcast. March Madness is here and it's all happening. Go check it out. And be sure to check out the ringer.com where you can read Claire McNier's piece on Michael Thomas, the NFL's practical activists. And now let's get on to GM Street. Welcome to GM Street part of the Ringer Podcast Network.

I am Tate Frazier, and I am joined on this Wednesday afternoon on a rainy day in Los Angeles by Mr. Michael Lombardy. I thought it didn't rain in Southern California. That's why we came out here. We got lied to you. I'm so live. But look, I look back east. I mean, I'd rather deal with the rain and deal with another nor'easter, you know, which is just the worst thing. Because, you know, as a fat kid growing up in Ocean City, New Jersey, you know, you have a bike, right?

That's all you can get around. The island's seven miles long, one miles wide. So, you know, you're growing, you live on your bike. No golf carts just bikes? No golf carts, no. Shit, I'm a son of a barber. You kidding me? We got no golf carts. So anyway, you know, it's like, I was talking to my buddy today who's in my hometown, my best man. And so I'm like, he's like, the wind's blowing. And, you know, when you're growing up there, the wind's coming off the ocean or coming north, it's the most painful thing of all time. Riding your bike into the wind. It's like, pelting you in the face. It's the cool breeze. It's like, you know, the day I turned 16 and I can get a driver's license. I took that, fuck, I took that bike and I threw it in the trash. That was the last time I was going to ride that bike again.

That was a statement. There was a good statement. Mentioning the beach. We came and saw you at the beach yesterday. It was awesome. It was like a drop in. It was great. It was like nice.

I mean, you know, it was awesome to tit there and talk a little hoops with you. You know, you two guys are doing such a good job on the podcast. I mean, I don't know anything about college hoops. I mean, I just watch the games and got a, you know, I know some people. I like the coaches, but I think it's been entertaining. I know everybody's complaining that the top seeds aren't in there, but I think it's been somewhat entertaining. You didn't listen to us. We were coming to complain to you and talk about how tired and worn out we were from doing podcasts.

And you wouldn't let us do that. You were energized. You were ready to talk. You were bringing up Eric Musselman, the family. That's my guy. You know, when Musselman was the head coach of the Golden State Warriors, we became friends. And then he got fired. And then he came over to the Raiders offices because he was living there, didn't have a job.

So we hung out. And then we've been friends ever since. You know, I think he really, it's a remarkable lesson. I think most coaches should learn that Musselman decided he went to Memphis as an assistant coach, kind of bounced around the NBA. He finally said, look, I'm going to become, I want to be a head coach in college hoops. And he took a job at Arizona State. He took a job at LSU. You know, for Eric Musselman has been a head coach of the NBA, take an assistant college job, right? That's a statement. And he said, screw it, I'm going to do it. And he end up with a Reno job. And now,

hopefully he'll get, you know, he'll get to the final four, at least get to the lead eight. And it's almost like a second life at this point because Muslim was, you know, one of these hot, promising young coaches at one time. You would think like a Quinn Snyder now in the NBA. And he kind of went away, had to go back to the bottom, go back to G League and work his way back up. So it's cool to see it all. And he's won everywhere. He won with the D League. He's won everywhere he's been. I mean, the guy's a great coach. And like I told him yesterday, I said, look, if they're going to bring Sister Jean in there, you got to bring an Archbishop in there. Like, you just can't like, you just can't get out Catholic. Do what you can. You can't get out Catholic. You've got to

get an Archbishop or, you know, you send somebody for the Vatican to come over, you know. That'll scare them, you know. You make some phone calls. You need to go back to Italy. I mean, it's like I told you yesterday. It's like on the untouchables. They kill you, they kill one of yours, you kill two of those. You can't just let Sister Jean run the joint. You just got a one-up, her. Got a one-up her. Sister Gene can't be stopped, though. Who do you like in that game? I'm going to go with Nevada. Mark Titus

was going to write about Nevada, but there's been this whole back and forth that whatever you write about ends up losing, like he wrote this thing on Virginia, Virginia Law. So we don't want to ruin Musselman's chances, so we're going to stay silent on Musselman, just pull for him. I like Nevada in that game, and then they have to go play Kentucky probably. That'll be a great weekend. This is a great time.

And then, you know, the best thing about this time you get the Masters commercials. Of course. Jim Nance. You get Jim Nance telling you, you know, unlike any other. There's nothing better than Jim Nance having a promo of Jim Nance reading a master's promo while he's talking about college basketball. It's the greatest. And I've told him this many times.

And I think this would be a great book. I really do. I wish I could write this book. And maybe I convince him after this book comes out if I could sell a few copies of my first book, shameless plug, that the week he has. Think about this as a sports fan. The week that Jim Nance has from the time he signs off on the Monday night of the final four. And gives this tie to the winner. gives his tie to the winner.

And then he goes to the sacred hollow grounds of Augusta. And then he spends the next six days at Augusta. And so he's gone from the pinnacle of college basketball to really the pinnacle of golf. I mean, maybe the U.S. opens bigger. No, it's Augusta. No, everybody loves Augusta, right? It's Bobby Jones. It's this like incredible place.

You know, so like that week really should be a book. Like the life of Jim in that week. The journey of Jim. The journey of Jim. It's not a new, it's not an article. it's a book. Like it should be like all the things that go into it and the histrionics. And, you know, I just think it would be a great, great book. And it has the legends that fall off over time.

Right. Like seeing Arnold Palmer take the last T shot, you know, seeing Jim Calhoun coach's last game with Yukon. Right. I mean, there's so many moments. We just pitched that for Jim Nance. So we put that up. I would like to write it. Maybe he'll let me do it because I've never been to the hologram.

I mean, that's the one thing that my two boys get so mad at me. They're like, you've never taken us to Augusta. So I told them that I'll take my grandsons to Augusta. There you go. That's a good deal. Fair deal. Let's talk about some football. That's what we're here for. That's what we're here for. That's right.

Once a week, we're on Wednesdays now. We're excited about this. The big story, probably the number one story right now that everyone's keeping an eye on. He's in Domenu. He's all over the place. He's taking meetings. People were getting excited. He went out here to Los Angeles on Tuesday to meet with the Rams. We saw Eric Dickerson tweeting things out. Like, we'd love to have you out in L.A. We saw the punter, Johnny Hecker say, you know, signed the punter. I want you to come out and play for this team.

Now he's going to go meet with the Raiders. We know he's a kid from Portland. There's been some interest in Seattle. So basically, Indomacu is building his market right now. He's on the tour. And it's the greatest way to create a leverage position because everybody knows Sue's not playing for free. And everybody knows Sue's not...

Quite the contrary. Everybody knows Sue's about the money. And what I think is really good for the Rams, this is going to be like if the Rams could convince him to go and play in Los Angeles, and they can get him to an economically friendly deal. And I'm not talking to get him for $8 million a year. I'm talking about a deal where

it's in that, you know, 13, 12, you know, that kind of range in there. If they can get him to settle on that on an average per year basis, then they can go to Donald and say, look, we just signed Sue, we paid them X. We'll pay you X plus more. You have, you know, that's the market. We've created the market by signing another player. See, some people think you can't create the market by signing another player. They think, well, that just kills you out of that market.

No, it forces you to create the market where you at least say, look, we sign this guy off the street. We paid them X. We want to pay UX plus. And now all of a sudden you put those two guys in there. And as much as I'm critical as Sue and I am, but he is a great player. Don't get me wrong. Sue is a fabulous player. I think in Los Angeles, he could be a huge factor for a couple reasons. Talib's an ass. Taleb won't put up with his shit. So Taleb will tell him to get his button line and to play hard. So you got a guy in the locker room where Sue's not going to be the man in the locker room. Sue's got to go somewhere where he can't be the man. And Detroit he was the man. When he went to Miami, they became the man just because they paid him. Now, if you can put him

in a locker room where he's not the man, and you can kind of push his buttons a little bit with, not with coaches, with other players, with his peers, you can create a situation. And then you got Donald next to him. He's not better than Donald. He might think he's better than Donald, but he ain't better than Donald. Donald plays hard all the time. Donald's also five years younger, 26 years old. Exactly. So you got a situation where this could be the perfect storm. And if I'm the Rams, I know it's a lot of money to put in my defensive line, but to me, if I'm the Rams, I think this is the one move where I think the Rams avoid the slippage a little bit and can put them really as the number one team in the West.

Because that front, to block that front with a draft coming up, wow. And you talk about that front, and you talk about Wade Phillips with that 3-4 defense. So it would be Donald, Sue, and Brockers, those three guys up front. Right. But then they'll shift it like they did in Denver where they'll play more of a nickel front, so they'll put Donald and Sue over the guards. Okay. So now here's your problem.

What you want to always create, what the Eagles did, is you want to create a situation where five guys have to block five guys. And so who's the worst five, who's the worst linemen? So you put Sue or Donald on the worst lineman. One guys can't handle those guys one-on-one. You can't double both Donald in and inside. To me, I think it's the perfect storm. And I think it would be a great situation.

And if he had any appetite to win, if he had any appetite to win, I think it would be. He's from the West Coast. You know, I know taxes in California, which is going to play. a factor in it is going to be huge. Especially to go from Florida to California. With no tax. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, to me, I think that's the perfect situation. Oakland, you know, again, you put him with Khalil Mack, a blue chip player. To me, I'm a big believer, strength to strength. You know, like we talked about last week, you know, Al Davis didn't want to trade 20 game pitcher for a hitter. You know, I believe add strength to strength. And I think that this would be a great move for them. And you look at the Rams. So they have 30 million in cap space and less need. The general manager there says there's a timeline for continued discussions with Donald right now. Donald made $1.8 million last year. It's expected for him to make $6.9 million. Do you think there's any animosity there from Donald or so? Is he just excited that they're bringing in these other pieces? Because you got Talib already coming in, like you mentioned.

And then to bring in Sue is, I mean, it's obviously a big deal for that defense. I think the fans don't understand really the essence of what's going on. When Cousins gets that deal, people aren't like saying, okay, we're happy. That just sets the market to another bar. So Donald sees Sue as exactly as I described them. Whatever he gets, I'm worth $2 million more. Yep. So bring them on, pay them.

you know, because then I'm going to want X more. You know, it's the same thing. Like there's no way Rogers was waiting, was doing an extension until we saw what Cousins got. So that's how, and if you're in the NFLPA, which is the Players Association, that's how you build the scale up is by creating leverage within the marketplace. So now you artificially inflate things by X player gets Y. Now the next guy comes over him, even though he's not as good. This is why free agency this year, it ended so quickly because there wasn't enough good players in it. And if you start signing guys to ridiculous contracts, it creates the leverage for some other players who are better and now the numbers are going to get up.

And that's why you saw all of a sudden it just stopped. Absolutely. And just talking about the situation with Sue, is he going to play this thing out? I mean, is he looking for that five-year deal? We know he got that huge deal with Miami. Is he looking for a second big contract like that? I think the whole suit. Do we see him do the one year, two-year time deal?

No, he'll do a three-year deal with a lot of guaranteed in it. I think he would do a three-year deal. if he was somewhere in that, you know, say he got $45 million over three, and he won $30 million guaranteed at an average $15 million a year, I think he would want to value it over that, $45 million with $30 guaranteed. You know, and the Rams have $30 million. See, when you skip that number of cap room, what no one really takes into account is, yes, that's a number you have,

but who don't you have signed in that number? They don't have Donald signed in that number. They don't have Jared Goff's extension in that number where they decide to go in there. So you have to kind of like, you can't look. at that just like, okay, we got 30 to spend. Just because you have the cap space doesn't mean that the cap is not being used elsewhere. The cap has to be laid out over three years and how are you going to plan it out? So I think to me, do I think the Rams will sign Sue?

I don't know if they'll be able to come up with the number. If he was willing to meet him halfway, that would be a great sign. I think it's the greatest place for Sue to go play would be Los Angeles. And isn't one of those things, too, if Sue does do this and takes less money to go to Los Angeles, that helps change the frame of a reference of an Dominican Sue. because even as we talk about him, we know he's a guy that wants to get paid, cares more about the money than necessarily go into a winning franchise or winning situation. He could just turn around his home, I think his home in Miami and Fort Laudette is up for 7-4.

So he sells it for 8-4, you know, put another add a cost into his home. I mean, I just think at some point winning's got a matter to a player. I know, you know, he talks about it. But when you take all these visits, you know, would it shock me if he went to Tennessee? No, it wouldn't shock me if he went to Tennessee because I think if they pay a little bit more with no state income tax, I think he's going to weigh all that. Look, one thing I respect about Sue is he's a businessman. He doesn't make any bones about it. He's not lying and saying I want to go somewhere for, you know, because I really enjoy playing with it. He tells you he wants to go for the money. He's not playing the headline game. He's playing the I got to build my market and I want to see you. I got. You know, this is my last contract. I got to hit it. Yep, absolutely. Let's talk about the New York Jets. Big trade, man. Yeah, big trade. So the Jets jumped up three spots. He had the number six pick in the number six pick. The number six points. I'm in the number 37 pick. The number 49 pick in this year's draft. and another pick in 2019.

Right. See, to me, this drives me crazy. So the first reaction on Twitter is the Jets overpaid. And everybody gets this stupid freaking chart out. You know, like everybody has the chart. So, oh, you know, they overpaid by 400 points on the chart. Stop. Stop. Like the trades are not for commodities.

They're for players. Okay. So you can't evaluate this trade until you put names in there. And then you really can't evaluate this trade until A, you find out who the Jets pick. Okay. And B, how does he play? way. If he plays to the level of Philip Rivers over five years in his career, they didn't pay enough. If he pays to the level of Blaine Gabbard, they paid way too much. They got robbed. If he

placed the level of RG3, they got robbed. I mean, you can't evaluate this trade today. And for me, the Jets, what they said very simply, they knew that New, they knew that Indianapolis was the target because the Giants probably don't want to move. They knew Cleveland wasn't going to move. So they got into a position where they said, look, we like one of these three guys. And, My sense of it would be they like probably, you know, the Rosen, the Darnels, the Josh Allen's. And then people said, what about Baker Mayfield? And I know Peter King wrote that he thinks Baker Mayfield's their guy, which it may, in fact, be. But to me, when you really start to study these guys and break them down, I can't see Baker

Mayfield being in the top three players in the country. There's just no way for me. And I like Baker Mayfield. But if you took all his third down plays, Tate Fraser, and you put him on a reel. And you just sat there and said, okay, it's third and six, third and seven. And you watched him have to really make tight throws from the pocket, spread the ball all over the field. People say, well, he's like Drew Breeze. No, time out.

Okay, time out. Drew Breeze was the state tennis champion, okay? You're talking about a uniquely gifted athlete, Drew Breeze, okay? Baker Mayfield walked on to Texas Tech. Great. Walked on, earned, you know, got to, don't dispute it. But we're not talking about the most gifted athlete. He's not the biggest athlete, and he doesn't have, so there's like levels of him.

So if, say, a player's a seven, and Baker Mayfield say he's a five, nine, and this and all these, so you're buying less than a player. So for me to sit there and say, well, he's the top three pick, there's just, there's no way. And if you want to use the Mansell equation or you want to use the Drew Brees, go ahead, but they're really not similar. And it's just body makeup, really, that usually leads to those comparisons more than anything. That's all it is. Yeah. That's all it is. And look, look, college football is becoming harder and harder. It's fascinating. There's a, there's more draft Nix than there's ever been before. There used to be just Joel Bushbaum, okay?

And I still remember his phone number. I used to, when I was with the 49ers, I would call Joel Bushbaum. Coach Walsh would come in there and say, call Bushbaum, because he loved to hear his voice. That's an incredible name. So I would dial 718252-4481. That was Joel's phone number. I wonder who has that number in Brooklyn now. But anyway, so I would dial that number.

And Joe would say, hello, you know, and this really nasally voice, hello. And I would say, Joe, it's Michael. Hey, Michael. And then, of course, you would start talking to him about players and he would just go, like, it was like nothing. It was rain man. Like he was, you know, like rain man was unbelievable. I mean, I have nothing but the greatest things to say about Joel. And Coach Walls used to love to hear his voice, you know. And so, but that was the only draft that guy back then. There was one book. And then Mel Kuiper came along. And that was the other book. Mel put out a book. Now you got 17,000 people that are studying college tape. And you. you know what? Tate Fraser. College football is harder to evaluate for pro than it's ever been in my entire life. Offensive linemen, never in a two-point stance, okay? Wide receivers, free access, mostly every single game, except if they play Ohio State or Alabama.

They just get the run down there, run that, catch the ball, right? So it's like an impossible game to evaluate, yet we have more people doing it, which tells you that they don't know. Like, they don't know. They just want to have their own mock draft. Everybody has mock drafts, but they don't really know. Like, okay, like everybody's first reaction on Twitter. Jets traded a three.

Browns have to pick a quarterback. The Browns are locked into a quarterback now. No, no, they're not. Think about this. The Browns have the first and fourth pick. So the Browns are only dealing with two missing unknowns, okay? The Browns could pick Bradley Chubb at one. And then they would...

They could pick Barkley at four, or they could pick one of the three quarterbacks that they like or one of the four quarterbacks that they like. Say they like them all the same. Say they like Rosen. They like... Darnold. Darnold. They like Mayfield.

and they like down. Okay, so why would they pick a quarterback at one when they can't get a better defensive lineman than Chubb, right? They know the Giants could pick Chub at two. Trust me, even though there's no mock and everybody that says the Giants love Barclay, trust me, the Giants grading system, they like Chub. Okay, Chubb's going to be high on their board. So they can't predict that. Why would they pick a quarterback at one? Like to me, why would the Browns pick a quarterback at one? Well, then you let it play out itself, you know, if you like all those guys equally, you let those other guys make their determinations and then you get to give

whatever guy you get, you just get him and you're fine with it. Right. And that's why you build a board. That's why Brandon Abin at the JetBenz is saying, like, I haven't done enough work on these guys to really put him in a slot. Like, he hasn't finalized the grade. So if Donald's is 64, okay, we talked about this yesterday when we were doing couch TV yesterday. It was like coffee talk.

It was good. It was like the view. It was like the view, exactly. You know, it's like when you trade down, most people just trade down with the idea, We're just going to trade down, right? Okay, we'll trade down 12 spots. No, you don't trade down. You trade down because you have a cluster of players.

So, and normally, and this is in Al Davisism, is if say you have to have 65% of the amount of players that you have. So say you trade down 100 spots. You've got to have at least 65 players that you like on the board to be able to go all the way back there. So it's 65%. Because you're going to lose, you know, you're only going to deal with 30. So you got to trade back. Whereas the Browns are sitting there, they're at one, say they pick Chubb and say they at four, they could get Barclay. They could get Josh Allen. They could get Sam Darnold. It depends on how they're graded. And nobody knows. They're not all the same, but they're all going to be in that same area. Like, I don't see how anybody could sit there and tell me. And I know Daniel Dermeyer, who I have great respect for. I know he thinks Sam Darnold is better than Deshaun Watson. He thinks he's better than Carson Wins. I know he went on, I saw something on Twitter the other day. He said he was the number one quarterback. how the past three years, right?

Yeah, which, I mean, I have great respect for Daniel. I don't see it. Like, I don't see how anybody can think somebody's better than wins. And I love Watson. Watson had the highest QBR last year when he played. I don't think how anybody could think he's better. But that being said, like, if you believe that, then you can't trade the first pick in the draft.

If Daniel Jeremiah is running your draft, that he's given Sam Donald an 8-0. Okay? Now you can't trade down. Yep. Okay. He's a can't miss prospect. He can't miss.

But if you're like me who thinks there's some, some where you think you're going to give them a 65 and you're going to give Alan a 65 or you're giving Makefield a 62 then all of a sudden then what's the difference if I get a 62? You know, you're in the same category. You see what I'm saying? And I don't think the Browns think any of those quarterbacks are blue chip players. So why would they pick a quarterback at one? Because the Jets moved to three?

I think it's more of a PR push for them to take a quarterback at one just because they passed on Wins and everyone remembers it. They passed on Watson and everyone remembers it. So now everyone's like, well, they have to make up for what they missed with those other two guys. So they have to take a quarterback at one. Right. And I don't see it to me. Like, I don't see.

Which is not exactly how, you know, people are thinking. I mean, because Sashi Brown got fired and people were saying he gets fired because he doesn't take a quarterback. Which is true. Which is true. So if you're, if you come in into the situation and you're making a pick, you're saying, well, I guess I should take a quarterback then because the last guy got fired because he didn't. Right. That's what people are, you know, that's the anticipation. I don't think, I don't think John Dorsey is going to do that.

I think John Dorsey is going to look at his team. And if I'm John Dorsey and I look at my team, what's the formula that everybody seems to think wins? If you just look at the Eagles and you study the Eagles, they're defensive front. So you put Chubb in that defensive line alongside of Miles Garrett on both sides. And if you get any kind of lead and you can run the ball a little bit, you got a chance to really create some havoc long term. You've got a NASCAR package. And so to me, why would you – like to me, I think the most ridiculous thing is like all these people – and we're going to see it with ESPN, all these people that go on these shows and talk about the draft.

College game day is going to do the draft. I can't wait to watch. No, I'm not going to watch it. But, like, they haven't. Nobody's ever been in the room before. Like, nobody's turned a card in. Like, nobody's built a team. Like, you've got to be able to piece it all together.

Like, why would I pick a quarterback at one when if my board says not to? You know, and Barclay is the popular pick for everybody. But, you know, Barkley, I mean, if you can get a defensive line, wouldn't you rather have a defensive lineman than Barclay? I would think so. A blue chip defensive lineman? Especially if you're not a team. Like, I mean, we keep bringing up the Ezeko Elliott and Leonard Fournette and it's like, well, they took a running back in the top four and then they made the playoffs and then they made a push. But their teams were primed to do that. They were

missing that piece. If you're the Browns, you're not one running back away from, you know, you have five years. You have one contract with this running back. So it's a different conversation. Yeah, I think it really is. But anyway, so I just think to me the Jets are sitting there at three. I think the Jets went up there and basically said, look, We need a quarterback. We think all these three guys are fairly somewhat similar four guys, and we're just going to ride it out and see what we get. I have an interesting note about just them trading up.

You talked about having the spots going back from six to three. So obviously they think that whoever their guy is going to have to fall in the one, two, three range. So they like three quarterbacks. I mean, is there a world in which Baker-Mayfield is one of those three, and Josh Allen is not one of those three? Or, you know, Baker-Mayfield is one of those three, and Sam Darnel is not one of those three. I just feel like there is a consensus three,

but for whatever reason we want to keep throwing Baker-Mayfield into the top. And that's what I don't get because, I mean, really, like, if you break them down and, look, Baker's a popular guy, he's kind of cocky. And he could have been there at six. That's the thing. That's interesting about it. I'm like, I'm not sure to me, that's what tells me, I think, and I don't know what Mike McCaghan's thinking. I don't know what Todd Bowles is thinking. But that tells me if you're trading to get the three, my instincts tell me you're not trading to get Baker Mayfield because there's no way that you're sitting in your room and Baker Mayfield's an 80 on your board. There's no way. There's just, there's no way. There's just, there's no way. way you could say Baker Mayfield's going to be a blue chip player in the NFL based on what you've seen because the offense at Oklahoma is almost impossible to

see drop back passes in it. It's all play action. It's all side reads. Third and six, go put the Rose Bowl game on when he played against Georgia. Watch that tape. Watch it close. Really study it. Watch him on third and six, third and tens. Watch them try to make some of those throws in it. They don't happen. You can talk about all the games against

Barlow who had no defense. I'm sorry, Maddie. They had no defense whatsoever. But when they've got to play against a good pro style of defense where there's no windows to throw the ball because people are playing man to man on the receivers, becomes a little harder game. I want to talk about the other team in this trade, and that's the Indianapolis Colts. They were getting run through the Coles over the past few years with Ryan Grickson and some of the picks that were made. People have made fun in Dorset.

There's so many times that the Colts have been brought up for not doing well in the draft. But Ballard makes his trade get some extra picks. And now he's got a chance to boost this offensive line in front of Andrew Luck. He gets Quentin Nelson, which there's been some reports on Nelson. that he's been graded out as a Hall of Fame level guard in this draft. Is this a good move for the Colts to be able to get some extra picks in the second round and then also be able to get a guard like Nelson possibly for the love? I mean, I watched Nelson.

Look, Belichick was at North Carolina State the other day, and people are thinking there he's there to watch Bradley Chubb, and we all know he was there to watch B.J. Hill and the street kid. And I watched Martin just kicked the shit out of Hill and Street in this tape. I mean, Martin's just pretty dominant. I could see the Jets pick a Martin. And you could say, well, you can't pick a guard it, too. Well, wait a minute. they just gave, Jacksonville just gave Norville $15 million a year for five years down there.

I mean, who says you can't pick a guard at two? If the guy's a starting blue chip guard, if he's going to be a pro bowl guard, wouldn't you want him? Yeah, I would think so. I mean, you would have Nate Solder and Zach Martin at one and two, and you would be able to sit there and have your offensive line. Because look, let's face it, you can have all this crap you want. If your two lines aren't in order, you can't win. So, yeah, I mean, Ballard's sitting there at the perfect position. He's got enough blue chip players. he knows, this is what Ballard knows and why he makes the trade. He's really only

dealing with three players in the draft. I would think that he knows that Alan, Donald, and Rosen are probably going to go before he picks at 6, which is what he's hoping for. He's praying that Mayfield becomes in 4. Praying. Every night before he goes to bed, he's probably saying, please let

make, because that means one more player slides down to him. That means Nelson slides down, Chubb slides down, Barkley slides down. Somebody slides to him. He's praying for that. Now, what would make it really bad for Ballard? which is not going to happen, would make it really bad for Ballard, if only one quarterback went before he picked. Now, all of a sudden, he's sitting there,

and maybe he has to take the Virginia Tech inside linebacker. Maybe he's got to take somebody that he wasn't really thinking was going to have to take. But there's enough good defensive players in this draft to me that I don't think he's going to have a problem at six getting a really good player. Talk about a team that's like outside of that range, those top eight picks that you get one of those transcendent guys. The Buffalo Bills, you mentioned, you brought up Billy Bean. and they're trying to be Brandon Bean we call him Billy Billy Bean

we're trying to figure out their quarterback situation obviously tie rides out they bring in AJ McCarran to come into Buffalo you think Catherine Webb's going to like Buffalo I think she's going to love it she's going to be slamming on tables slamming beers you know that sounds like her fit in life I just want to ask you if there's a bunch of

you know there is Mason Rudolph in this draft there are some other quarterbacks that will be in the conversation around the 12 to 15 range do you see a team like the bills if if Bean goes in a tape and says, I really like what Mason Rudolph did at Oklahoma State this year. I think I may take a flyer on him and take them in this first round, where we have a world in which we have six or seven quarterbacks taken in the first 15 picks. I can't see it, but I can't see it.

I think Bean is right that he still has to go through the process, but I don't think Bean's being completely honest that he didn't get up there with the idea he needs a quarterback. I mean, now he may think A.J. McCarran can give him that bridge. I mean, the Browns have announced Tyrault Taylor as their starter for opening day, even though it's, you know, the season six months away, and we all know how that goes. but I think he moved up here with the idea that that's what he has to fix. And he's in good spate. You know, he wanted to get rid of Gordy Glenn.

I mean, I'm sorry, he wanted to get rid of Gordy Glenn. And so he was able to get out of that. He got Dion Dawkins to play left tackle, or whomever he's got over there, and then he can figure it out, and he moves up in the draft. It really didn't cost him much. So he's in perfect position. I still believe he's got to want to pick a quarterback. I don't know if he can do that.

And I don't think he can do it. He can't convince himself with Rudolph, because the problem with Rudolph is, Rudolph's a seven-on-seven quarterback. We've seen it with Brandon Whedon. There's a little bit of Jared Goff in that sense, too. The Gundy spread system. It's the spread system, you know, it's really not, nobody's reading coverages. You're high, low and outside.

They run three routes. It's a really hard thing to do, and the rhythm of the game is so much more different than it's staggered than it is the pro game. I would have a hard time thinking he would do that. Now, maybe he thinks Spaker Mayfield might be there at 13, and people say, oh, God, you can't believe that. I could see that. I could really see that. I could see that because somebody's going to slip.

Like somebody's going to slip. Like nobody thinks like if you ask 10 people who the first pick in the draft is in this draft, you're probably going to get five or nine different answers. Right. So like and that never happens. When Troy Aikman came out, there was no debate who was the best player in the draft. Okay. Some people thought Tony Mandridge might be.

But for the most part, you know, it was Troy Aikman. And, you know, Jimmy Johnson went back and forth and Gil Brant was still working for the was at the time. It was pretty obvious. When Carson Palmer came out, it was, you know, that was pretty obvious. Ryan Leaf and Ryan Leaf, just that was a joke, folks. You know, it's like, you know, and the way Daniel Jeremiah feels about Donald, which is he feels that he's in that category. He sees. He's still talking about Donald like going into last season what everyone thought about Donald, which he was the number one pick. He talks, he sees Donald in a, when you put him ahead of

Carson Wentz, that's a statement right there. That's a huge statement. And I, and I, And I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying I'm not there with that guy yet. I think he's too sloppy with the ball. I think he's got too many things to work on. I don't know if he's a great leader. I think he would be good to have on your team. I think if you're desperate for a quarterback and you need a quarterback,

he's got a lot more talent than a lot of guys you're working with. I think there's a chance he can really grow. Do I think he's better than Jimmy Garoppel? I would say no. Do I think he's better than Jared Gough? I think he would be. I'm not, you know, as I you know, I'm not in love with golf. I think Goph's a really good player.

I think Sean McBade did an incredible job with them. But I think that, you know, you've got to build around them. So I'm not sure. See, when you put him ahead of wence, you're saying you don't even need to build around him. He'll make everybody else better. I'm not there. You're saying he's an MVP candidate in his second year. Exactly.

Yeah, really. That's a stretch. That's a whole other thing. But look, the Jets, my point on this, the Jets had to do this. Like the Jets, the Jets have been covering up for the past sins. You know, it's like they're paying for the sins of not drafting to Sean Watson. They're paying for the sins of not drafting a quarterback, right? So when you have to pay for sins, you've got to overpay.

And you don't really know if you've overpaid until you see these guys play. And they're trying. I mean, they added Tramaine Johnson, Avery Williamson, Isaiah Crowell, Morris Claiborne. Oh, they got a ton of cap for them. They're trying to get their receiver in there. They made the pitch to Kirk Cousins to come there. And I think that, you know, look, I think when you see that, they're trying. But the reality of it is, if you can't get it in the draft,

you're never going to find it. And if you keep passing on guys, like you pass on Watson, you pass on these guys, you're going to end up having to pay the Piper. Yep. One man that thought he was going to get paid the Piper and ended up not getting paid the Piper was Ryan Grant, wide receiver. He agreed to a deal with the Baltimore Ravens $29 million deal. There was some backlash a little bit about that.

And then he fails his physical due to an ankle injury. And the Baltimore Ravens ensuing decided to sign Michael Crabtree, who was cut by the Raiders and John Gruden, and then Ryan Grant ends up in this whole thing with the Indianapolis Colts on a one-year $5 million deal. Yeah, here's the thing that I find interesting. Usually, look, I'm not saying the Ravens did anything sneakily. I don't think that's a word.

I don't think the Ravens did anything sneaky. But to me, when you bring a guy in for a physical and you have some concern about his ankle, and you've just given him this contract, there's usually a waiver in place. Usually you can waive yourself out of an injury. So you say, look, we don't like, like this, we don't like this player's ankle right now. Can we get a waiver on the ankle and then

you get specific within to the, so if he does it, so you're really not on the hook for everything. And so to just walk away from the contract completely, that's where it really, because Crabtree was released earlier in the day because they signed Jordy Nelson, to me makes it seem like, wait a minute, you know, like he passed a bit of back channeling there. He passed the Redskins exit physical, right? And now he can't pass your entrance physical, you know, and you don't want to waiver on the ankle. And he passed a physical with the Colts. He passed physical with the Colts without a waiver. It's strange. I feel bad for Ryan Grant because he got through on it. And I do think,

you know, look, let's face it, the reality of it is, is Ryan Grant was getting overpaid by Baltimore. Whether Baltimore got nervous about that, whether Baltimore read the headlines, I don't know. I can't prove that. Yeah, he did say, I can't control what the Ravens did. I can't control their assessment of my ankle. I've gone other places. I've seen multiple doctors. I've passed multiple physicals. So that should pretty much be for itself. So that's where Grant stands on the whole thing. I feel bad for the kid. Yep, absolutely. I feel bad for the kid.

Hopefully he has a great year, and he can come back and get another contract. I was smart to do a one-year contract. Yeah, and he showed signs last year in Washington. You see, I think that's where the Colts are doing a nice job. Like this whole market, their names out there, they're not paying overpaying for players. So get Ryan Grant on a five-year contract, one-year contract for $5 million. Okay, go for it, you know? But to sign Dante Montcrieve for $9 million a year and all the like, what?

Are we kidding ourselves? Like, why would you lock yourself into that deal? Yep, absolutely. Chris Ballard doing a good job there. Sheldon Richardson signs with the Minnesota Vikings, a guy that's been back and forth. Obviously, remember the good times with the Jets when he was looking like a star all defensive tackle. Goes to Seattle last year.

It was up and down, you know, had some attitude issues. Now he ends up in Minnesota with Mike Zimmer, a man that has no problem putting people in their place as we've seen with Vontes Burfect over the years. This seems like a good fit for Sheldon. You know, and I think it's a great fit because, look, I think that, you know, when Michael Johnson, came out in the draft out of Georgia Tech. He was a pretty unbelievable. Okay, but people killed this kid.

I mean, he's a son of a Marine and people were questioned his toughness. I mean, there were guys on TV just destroying this guy, just killing him, you know, and he ends up going in the third round. They get something out of him. Carlos Dunlap, okay, get killed out of Florida. He got killed on television. You know, bad guy, blah, blah, fourth round, they hit the trifect in Cincinnati. You know, Zimmer's there. Gino Ackins from Georgia in the middle, yep. Same thing, right? Bad guy, turd, can't really do it, you know. There's a reason why Zimmer can do this. Zimmer's an asshole. And I say that complimentary. I say it very compliment. In the best way possible, yes. And if you're going to deal with guys who are basically hard to deal with, you've got to be a bigger, hard to deal with guy, right?

And that's what Zimmer is. Zimmer doesn't mind being a bad guy. When Zimmer wakes up in the morning, he doesn't mind being an asshole. He doesn't mind confrontation. And so when you get a Richardson guy into the room and he's not coming in to be the savior. because you just played in the conference championship game. See, it's always, it's a little bit like he's a piece. It's like dogs going to the park, right? You know, when a, you know, who wants to be the dominant dog in the park, right? They usually gets figured out, but whoever's been running the park usually runs it. This, you know, Richardson comes in and now he can't be the dominant piece, right?

He's not going to be the main guy at Minnesota. He's going to be on a one-year deal, prove it, buddy, see what you can do. I think it's a great situation for him. and play them next to, you know, Floyd inside with their defensive front. I think it's a strength on strength again. I think it's a great move. I think it's a great move for Richardson. I think Richardson was smart to sign there.

I think Rick Spilman did a really good job of getting it. Because when you have a head coach who can coach defensive line as a scout, you're like, this is the greatest thing ever. Because he can, because you have to be almost like a lion tamer to deal with defensive linemen. They're going to be really difficult. They're going to be hard. They don't want to work hard, but yet they're.

tough, you know, they kind of, like they have to be motivated and it's a difficult, challenging job. If you want to be a nice guy to them, they're going to walk all over you. If you want to be really kind of a tough guy, they'll love and respect you. You see it with Thomas Sula in Washington. He gives them tough love. You see it with a bunch of good defensive line coaches, and I think that's what Zimmer is. Yep, absolutely. Let's talk about Seattle a little bit. DJ Fluker, people remember from the Chargers. I think this is, I put this down on the talk about today because this, to me, is the end of the zone blocking scheme and the coveted

the Tom Cable, we want to run the outside stretch play. To me, this is like Seattle now has changed a run game. If you sign Fluker, who has no chance to run the outside zone, his foot speed doesn't really allow to it. You want to run powered downhill. You want double teams. You want big guys on guards.

You want to push people and just kind of, not that he's a great athlete, but you're just looking to get movement up front. You want double teams. Stay on the down guys. Work to the second level. To me, I think you're seeing a shift in what's Seattle. This is the first time I've seen Seattle make a shift where I'm saying, okay, this is what I think they're doing. And the Fluker signing, even though it wasn't a big signing, they didn't put a lot of money into them. But if they're going to run outside zone, if Fluker wanted to work for free, you can't sign them? Because he can't run outside zone. So I think that's what makes it so interesting. The other thing about that is Luke Jokul is an unrestricted free agent. He was the left guard last season for the Seahawks. Do you think Jokul will walk who will go somewhere else now? Or do we bring him back to help out with Fluker? You have both those guys in there? I think they'll both. I think what Seattle's doing is collecting the 2013 first round draft. I mean, they've got Jokal. They've got Mingo. They've got Dion Jordan. They got Fluker. I mean, they got all these guys. I mean, they're just collecting the 13 draft like it's crazy. I mean, and that's, you know, look, that's a good thing to do because guys are on, you know, guys are trying to prove themselves. And I think Seattle knows they got cap issues. They got to find guys at cheap deals that they can turn their careers around. Yep. That was DJ Fluker. One year, $3 million deal. People remember from Alabama, a big tag.

tackle everyone, you know, was high on the sky. He has no foot movements and they kind of kick him inside. You know, the other one was the Pouncey deal. You know, all those people that told me that we were crazy about Miami, not wanting to change their culture because their really culture was good down there in Miami. Yeah, it was really working out well. They shipped Pouncy out of there. I mean, in San Diego signs Pouncey, which is fascinating because San Diego's, you know,

their offensive line has always had a little bit of problems. And Pouncey gives them, you know, a better player than they had at center. So I think that's it. It's going to be fascinating to watch Miami this year. Yeah. Miami's an interesting team because their locker room, they're changing it all over, what they're going to do, a quarterback. They extended Tana Hills deal so they can't cut them next year. I don't see it going in another direction for Miami.

But it's going to be a totally different team when you watch Miami, just not seeing Landry, not seeing Sue. I mean, all these big players, all the guys you remember when you think of the dolphins are not going to be there next year. But it's the same front office. You got the great Mike Tanibam. I'm still running the things and they're changing the thing. It's amazing. How do you keep your job when they change all the players you brought in? Like, how do you do that?

I don't know, Danny and Mendolyn may teach us something, though. He may save him. I'll have to call Danny. Come on, Danny. I hope Danny does it. All right, before we get to the Patriots, getting Cordellar and the disrespect of Tom Brady's dominance, let's take a quick break.

Hey, guys, I'm Mark Titus. And I'm Dave Frazier. We are the host of One Shining Podcast. It is March. Check your calendars. It's true. March Madness is coming up. We're here to talk about all things college basketball.

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It's going to be great. We're going to be here all month. Please subscribe to OneShiny podcast. Check all of our stuff out. Tate has done some very disgusting things for money in the past. And he is desperate for more to come. For more subscribers so he doesn't have to return to his old life. So please, please, please subscribe to our pod.

Check us out. We're having a lot of fun this March. You can get us wherever you find your podcast. podcast, Apple, Stitcher, SoundCloud. I'm a Google Play guy. Google Play doesn't get enough love when people do this. And Spotify. People are on Spotify now. So go check it out. All right, Lombardi, we are back. Tom Brady,

just getting more toys in town. Corderoe Patterson, we remember from Tennessee. It was a guy that was coveted for a long time, Speedster. It really helps him out in these special teams. Great with the ball on his hand. But this, Tom would probably never throw him on. There's no chance that Cordell Patterson

will ever learn that offense. And there is zero to no chance. He's learning the offense. Which is my favorite thing about when this gets reported, which is this is just what happens in the NFL. We try to compare things, a certain thing. So Randy Moss, you know, he played for the Vikings. He played for the Raiders, obviously.

It was a first round pick at one time by the Minnesota Vikings. So he goes to New England and they win 18 games, obviously, as we all know. So when Cordero Patterson goes to signs of the Patriots, everyone makes his comparison, you know, just like Randy Moss when he came. People were saying, you know, he's going to be an outside receiver, have a speed on the outside for Tom Brady. All true. He can have speed on the outside. He just does, I mean, he has to be relied. He's Matthew Slater's replacement. And they just re-sign Matthew Slater.

Oh, is it? Okay. He's Johnson Betamosey's replacement. Okay. So he's Johnson Batamosey. Yeah. He's going to be the other gunner to Matthew Slater. Okay. He's going to give him a legitimate big-time gunner. He's there for special teams is what I'm saying. He, when they put their board together, okay? So when they put their board together, Brandon King, Matthew Slater, the two kickers, the long snapper, that's five, right? And Cordell – there's six players that count towards special teams. They don't count towards offense or defense. That's the way it's going to be.

Now, will they throw a bubble screen to Cordell Patterson? Yes. When he comes on the field, will the defense know that the ball's probably going to go to him? Yes, which makes it harder to get the ball to him. Because if smart coaches see Patterson on the field, they're going to say, Patterson's on the field, alert screen, alert bubble, alert nine route. I mean, because I'm the only thing, two things he's going to run.

You think he's running an in-cut at 16 coming downhill on the stem with Tom, and Brady's going to hold the ball and wait for it. I would say, it was like me trying to get Lana to shut up yesterday. No chance. Well, the people are very excited that the new Randy Moss is in town in New England. It's so unbelievable. And look, I think Cordell Patterson, it gives him the best, best, possible kickoff return man.

This is about, nobody wants to hear it because it's not sexy. This is about field position. This is about controlling vertical field position in a game, which is Paramount to Belichick. He wants to be able to play with his really good offense on a shorter field. And if Patterson can get the ball back out to the 30 or wherever he gets it to. If we can go from the 25 to the 30, that's a world of difference. Those five yards are a world of difference.

And that's what this is about. It's about field position. Nobody wants to talk about it. but it's about field position. And that was my favorite thing about that because it is a really big signing for this team. It is about field position. And the other thing it does is what people don't realize, Belichick's maneuvering in this draft, right? He goes back one round, right?

About nine picks or something like that. So he ends up with, he ends up with Patterson. He ends up with a starting corner and Jason McCordy, right? So he gets that by moving around. Why does he do this? Well, it doesn't really cost him anything. He just takes on the existing contract, no problem, and it adds players to his team without being in the compensatory pool. So you would say, well, McCorney and Patterson both would have been cut had they not been traded for, right?

Okay. And they wouldn't have counted in the compensatory pool either. Correct. However, now you're bidding against somebody. And the unknown of what team might sign Patterson for more money than you really want to spend, where you can control the cost, you make the trade. And whether you pick not. Like, really. You don't have to do the whole negotiation part of figuring out what his contract.

Does it matter if you pick 161 or you pick 175? Look, I've been in enough draft rooms to know when we're getting ready to pick it like 161, you have three names on the board. And by 175, you probably still have two names on the board. You know, it's infrequent when you get in those later rounds that you lose a guy. Now, in the second round, the boat takes in a lot of water. You can start to sink a little bit with who you want. But you get that six, seven. You pretty much getting who you want.

And you kind of got to know who you want at that point. point two. I want to talk about Bill Belichick. We just brought up the New England Patriots. Obviously, he's been doing the tour. He's been doing the pro days. Leading to the Super Bowl before the game ever happens, we got a lot of reports and some rumblings that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, if they were to win the Super Bowl, we're going to walk away from football. They lose the Super Bowl. After that, everyone's like Tom Brady and Bill Belichick may walk away from football. Bill Belichick is out. He's going to pro days. He's scouting. He's sitting there with Bradley Chub. He's yelling at him. He's trying to fix his hand placement. He's

telling him not to be lazy. He's in the mix. He's in the mix. And so for all those doubters that thought Bill Belichick was not going to be around going to pro days and scouting these guys, you're probably wrong now. The main thing about Belichick, people don't really understand. He has two jobs, right? So he's the head coach of the New England Patriots. And he's also the general manager of the New England Patriots. Yeah, he's in charge of personnel at every level. So he's on the road scout.

And he goes to these pro days, and people think, well, he's there to watch Chubb. No, he's there to watch Street, and he's there to watch Hill. And he's there to learn about the players. And that's a really good spot to go to. And so he can get a lot of stuff done with one stop, and he can start building his board together. So look, it's pretty clear. New England's defensive line let them down last year. There's no doubt. They lost Vincent Valentine. Alan Branch didn't play nearly as good. You know, they had to rely on Lawrence guy. They signed Ricky Jean Francois. And, you know, they need to fix the defensive line. They traded for Danny Shelton. Another trade that didn't cost them. Right. So there's three trades. They've added three players to their team by maneuvering in the draft. They gave up a third round pick two years from now for Shelton. So he's doing that. But to me, it's pretty clear. It's all about defensive line for him. He needs to fix his defensive line. And for all the Chubb talk, I mean, there's a lot of people that made the comment that, you know, why is Bill Belichick going to see Bradley Chub? He's probably going to be a top five pick. The Patriots are picking 31st. This makes no sense to me. He was just doing that out of a favor. He was watching these other guys and saw Chubb working out. Here's the thing. What no one understands is the draft, if you fall behind in the draft, if you take the mentality that I am not going to watch the top quarterbacks in the draft, okay? Because we don't have to pick up there. We don't have to pick them. You're really hurting yourself as a professional, right? You as every defense coordinator should watch every quarterback in the draft.

It should be Al Davis made it mandatory. You had to do it. Every quarterback. So if he came in, you knew who he was. As a general manager, you have to know the entire. You can't just know the top 50 players. You've got to know the whole draft. And what happens to guys that go on television, former coaches that go on TV,

where they lose their edge is they lose the draft. So now when you've been on TV four years and you've not really done. 150 or 300 players in the draft, okay? You lose this group of players. You don't really, where's that guy from? I don't remember him. You know, tell me about him. You know, Adrian Claiborne, didn't he have a bad arm?

You know, like he had a bad arm. Like he's got one arm shorter. You know, like, you forget all the stuff. You don't know all the stuff that you really need to know. So if you come back in the league, you know, now you're behind. You know, Gruden did the quarterback camp. Did he watch all the offensive linemen? I doubt it.

Did he watch all the DBs? I doubt it. Okay. So he's going to have to catch up on some of these players. players, he's been out of the league. So when you leave the league, that's why Belichick studies the draft. That's why when the drafts over in April, all of May will be spent for Bill Belichick working on the next year's draft.

You know, most everybody in May will be patting themselves in the back because they think they're going to win the Super Bowl. He's in there trying to watch all the college players for the next year. And then all of June, he'll watch all the college players. You know, we were in the locker room one time, and he and I were standing there, and Brian Dayball was the tight end coach. We start talking about the, this is in the middle of May. We start talking about the players for the next year's draft.

And Dave all looks at me and like, you guys already started? Yeah, yeah. Like, he was like, couldn't even believe it. Like, but that's the way Belichick is, you know. And so he's the GM of the team. And if you don't do that, like if you don't do that, you fall so far behind. And then when you go on television and you start talking about teams, you really don't understand where the player they're getting from.

It's hard, really hard. It is really hard. And you say all this and it's leading into a great conversation. which is John Gruden, our guy. You met my man. Goes and signs a 10-year, $100 million deal with the Oakland Raiders. Everyone's excited. He does the press conference.

He takes off the fired football. Coaches Association hat, Pfizer throws her to the side, says, I'm back. I'm ready to do football. I'm ready to be the Raiders coach. He also says some things that have been interesting and have starting to be torn apart a little bit. He says he wants to go back to 1998. He doesn't believe in the analytics revolution of football. All these sort of comments and people are, you know, sort of raising their eyebrows.

but we're going to see what Gruden does with personnel, who he's going to bring in. It seems like he actually thought he was going to go back to 1998 because he started signing guys like Jordy Nelson, who's 33 years old. And then I see on Twitter, you know, Nelson's fine. Like, okay, people on Twitter start talking about Jordy Nelson, right? Jordy Nelson is, if you play zone against Jordy Nelson

and you give him a free release and let him run up the field, I'm sure Jordy Nelson looks like the Jordan Nelson he was three years ago. If you play press two man on Jordy Nelson, and you get in his grill and he has to separate and he has to show burst at the top of a round, out against really good corners. Can he do it? I don't know. It was hard for him to do it last year, whether he had a good quarterback or not. Okay, so that's what Green Bay made the decision. They didn't see it to that value. Where John's going to do is John's going to sign veteran guys.

He's going to see it. Doug Martin's been signed. Marshawn Lynch is back. He's going to sign veteran guys that know what to do. The fascinating thing about John is going to be in June. When John's watched all the guys he signed, and then what he thinks of those guys in June after he's watched them, that's going to be the fascinating thing. But what happens, you talk about John, you talk about getting lost in a draft. If you haven't been there and you haven't seen these players and you've been out of football, it's hard to get back and get ingratiated and everything. John Gruden's walking in to, you know, he's been away from the game for, you know, however long.

And now he's getting in and he's having to sign all these players and know all these players and figure all this stuff out. Is he behind the eight ball already going into it? I mean, I think what he's had the advantage of by going to all these practices. And have the tape at his span and watching these teams and studying these teams. but John's an offensive guy by trade. Now, the best advantage he has on the Oakland staff is Gunther. Paul Gunther is defensive coordinator.

Gunther who worked in Cincinnati. Okay, so Cincinnati's old school. Cincinnati operates their scouting department like they were a college program. The coaches really go on the road. They scout their position like a college coach would do. Mike Brown is not cheap. He gives them a credit card. They go on the road.

They hit every single pro day. You'll find a Bengal coach at all the pro days. They work out all the guys. They set the board how they think it is with imp. put from Duke, Tobin and all the other guys in the Bengals front office. So, you know, Gunther knows all these players. You can see the trait. You can see Rich Basatchi's influence in player personnel. It's, look, the Raiders personnel department is Gruden, Basachi, Paul Gunther, David Rosano, who they hired as the personnel guy, and then the general manager, Reggie. No disrespect

to Reggie. But this is going to be a pro-style evaluation inside before they get to college. And I just want to ask you about some of the signings. They're trying to go old school. He's saying he wants do smash mouth football so we get key smith a fullback that signed we signed two big tight ends and gruden's basically saying i mean we just paid derrick car to be this Aaron rogers like quarterback to you know spin around and make it yeah and now they're going to run the ball and run smash it just seems like there's a lot of things i mean look i'll say this i may maybe my next book should be look if you if you if you try to run the ball all you're going to do is kick field goals like really i mean that's that's really what if if you look you can you can dispute

analytics okay you can say they don't help you at all they do that there's something things they do. The study of numbers do help you in some way and you can apply them. However, when you watch the Eagles what they do and how they run their team and how they call plays as the unorthodox swordsman and they were really unpredictable in what they did, that's a completely different style than coming in and trying to pound the ball. If you try to pound the ball against people, you're going to fall behind in the game. And they're going to stack the box. It's going to be harder and then the other problem you got, here's the biggest problem you got, if you want to be a really good run team and you want to emphasize the run and you want to run power and you want to run lead

like John likes to run, it takes a lot of time. Football's a mathematical sport, so you only have a certain amount of time allotted to what you want to emphasize. And if you put all that time into those things, it becomes harder and harder to be proficient at the other areas, whether it's past protection in other areas. I think it's going to be a real challenge. Cable is an outside zone guy. John's never really been more of it. He's been a power lead guy. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle that.

But look, I don't see old school working in the NFL. I think new school works in the NFL. I think you've got to be adaptive to what's going on with. the trends and I don't think the trend sells you that you can run the ball effectively. I think you can run the ball once you establish the pass, but I don't think you can establish the run first. John Grun is basically, if you were to put it in a basketball sense, he's just drafting seven-footers after seven-footers and trying to put a big basketball team. He wants to play the low-poil. He wants to play inside out right now. He's like me when I watch the Sixers. Like, can we not get

a low-post player and throw it into them? We have to take all these threes all the time. And then I remind myself, well, that's the game now. You know, like I'm old. Like I, you know, like I like, I like to see the ball going to Moses Malone. I do too. It's much easier to score that way. I like that. What was so wrong with that game? Nothing's wrong with it.

Get the ball to Moses. Let him have it. They'll foul his ass or he'll put it in the... He'll dunk it. There's going to be one dad that teaches their tall son how to actually play in the post and dominate. What would Kareem Abdul-Jabar do today? Dominate. I think he would kill it, right?

Yeah, no, no one would... Yeah, he would dominate. Who could block his sky hook? Yeah. No, that's really the lost art is actually being able to make moves in the post that aren't generic where you do one turn. around jumper and the guy blocks you. It's like Al Jefferson, we don't see that anymore, you know, just the footwork in the post.

It's unbelievable, but I think your analogy's right. I think that the game's changing, and I think that you've got to be adaptive to the change. So hopefully keep your eyes peeled on the situation to Oakland as things change. I think as we get in the summer, like you said, John Gruden, there will be some stories coming out of there. And there will be some changes made, and who knows what happens. I could do a lot of impersonations on that. I'm happy or not for the sake of the podcast. Brady and ESPN.

I saw this story. What did they? Manning the best player. Like, fill me in here. I don't know much about it. Look, I know you've been in basketball, but just give me humor me. I just think that they do all these. I think it's genius. So you do this, you get somebody to write something on another platform, right, for your magazine.

You write something. You rank people. And then that leads to your TV program talking about, you know, the rankings that this guy, that arbitrarily made up this ranking. That you basically. Now we're talking about it. Now you're giving your rankings. You control the story. show is now giving their rankings and it's this whole thing. It's all funny. It's all stupid.

You basically create the narrative. Of course. Of course. And then it's also like, you know, Tiger's number one of the list because, you know, everyone loves tigers, so we're going to be fine with that. We put LeBrona number two. Everyone would be okay with that. But then as they went down, they ended up having Peyton Manning number three. And they had Tom Brady. What's the criteria? The criteria. Is just arbitrary? Basically like the impact of, you know, remember when Michael Jordan got named the 20th century greatest athlete or whatever and people were upset because it's like, well, you don't remember so-and-so from

1930, you know, it's one of those things again, of course, it's all arbitrary. But the thing that people were upset about was that Peyton Manning, a guy that struggled to beat Tom Brady, obviously does not have the titles that Tom Brady has, was ranked 17 spots ahead of him, the people in Boston and Foxborough, Massachusetts. They're not very excited. Yeah, they're not very excited about that.

I think if you would ask Peyton what career he would rather have, I think he'd rather have the titles. That's just me. You know, I would think he would, but. Not the Papa John's. Not the nationwide. Yeah, I mean, look, he was going to get all that anyway. Of course.

You know, it's funny. It's like, I just finished this book. I forget that it was about the best teams. It was written by a Wall Street Journal author. And it was like the assemblance that he went through and decided what were the greatest teams in sports history. You know, and he used the Steelers in the 70s, but he didn't use the 17-year run of the Patriots. And I'm like, I don't know. The Iron Curtain Steelers, yeah.

Yeah, I don't understand how he could, like, it's harder to win now than it was when the Iron curtain because when they drafted those guys and Dick Haley and the Rooney family, those guys deserve a ton of credit for building that incredible team. Those guys were never going anywhere. Once you got to a team, you weren't going anywhere. There's no free agency. There's no cap. To me, this is the hardest period to have a good team. And yet they just dismissed that in that book. And I'm like, I don't know if this is right. Like, I don't see it. Like, so I don't know how you can, like, unless you get in that, the guy had a criteria for what he was doing. Okay. So he proved his point with the credit because he knew people were going to attack it. I just don't agree with

this criteria. But this one, I don't know how, if this is just about unique talent, individual talent, then okay, fine. Then maybe Manning is more talented than Brady. But if it's about winning, which Tiger Woods is about winning and Michael Jordan's about winning, then how do you not have the guys won all the games? I think that's a good argument. Yeah, I have no idea. I just think it was funny. But you're right, though. It just creates a story. Yeah, I just like to see the outrage machine, especially about rankings. Rakings are all arbitrary. It's whoever writes it. That's their outlook on things. One more thing about ESPN. John Fox is going to join ESPN in a commentating capacity. But probably replace Herm Edwards here. Probably replace Herm Edwards. They're losing Herm.

And so they get John in there to come in there and talk about some football. Former coach talk about football. Affle come in, make some jokes. And I think, look, I think we're all missing the boat. I think people have an incredible appetite to learn about football. And if John comes in and teaches people about the game of football and is educated all about it, like basket. Like that's the one thing you respect about the tournament. You listen to Frank Martin on TV. You listen to these ex-coaches. They talk, or not Frank Martin's not an ex-coach, but you listen to these guys talk. I mean, look at Tom Cream. Tom Cream, you know, goes to ESPN and people think he's been fired in Indiana, and he shows people his knowledge on television. Next thing you know, he's the head coach

University of Georgia. Congratulations to Tom. And I think that's what, we don't get enough of that in pro football. People like dumb it down for the fans. The fans want it up. They don't want to dumb down. They want to learn about the game. They want to understand that it's Chess on grass and how it really is chess on grass. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't see John Fox as being one of those guys that goes to ESPN to leverage that into another job. I think he's going to be there for.

John's not. John's retired. I think he's done. So this will be fun to see John Fox. He's got some great stories. He's obviously been with the Panthers, the Broncos, the bears, been all over the map. So we're excited to see John Fox show up on ESPN and get his thoughts on things. Any more thoughts before we get out of here?

No, Tate Frazier. No, I'm looking forward to your pods this week and looking forward to getting on the draft next week. We'll kind of hit that draft a little bit because I think we'll have a little bit more, you know, these pro days happen. Sam Donald's throwing today in sunny California, which rain in, so that'll be interesting to see. Yeah, see what he does with the wet football. See what he does, how he handles all that, and we'll get the feedback on that.

So I think it'll be more draft stuff next week. Perfect. Well, this has been another episode of GM Street, part of the Ringer podcast network. Thanks for listening. Thank you.