The Ringer NFL Show - The New Champions of the World and the Future of the Patriots | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 235)

Episode Date: February 6, 2018

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark sit down the morning after the Super Bowl to discuss Doug Pederson's masterful offensive game plan (03:00), memorable postgame moments (12:15), "the 15 percent chance rule" (21:00), where the Patriots go from here (28:45), an unreal performance by Rob Gronkowski (31:45), and Tom Brady's decision-making in the last two possessions (35:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, Chris Ryan here as the NBA season gets more and more interesting every day. The Ringer NBA show feed now has you covered five days a week. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Friday show will be focused on the draft, examining the best prospects, rankings, comparing players and fits for possible future teams. It will be with different combinations of our NBA experts like Kevin O'Connor, Danny Chow, Jonathan Sharks, as well as college hoops aficionados, Mark Titus, and Tate Frazier from OneShining Podcast.

You will not want to miss that. All of these shows, plus a few emergency pods with guests like Bill Simmons, whenever big news in the NBA breaks. Make the Ringer NBA show a must listen for basketball fans. So subscribe to the Ringer NBA show now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, or wherever you get your podcasts. To the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark.

Kevin, it's the day after the Super Bowl, man. we're getting a run of classic Super Bowls. I'm not mad at it. I just, it seems like every year now, I mean, obviously the Panthers, Broncos game was whatever, but the three of the last four, all the ones the Patriots were involved in.

I mean, I kind of sit there at the end of the night and just shake my head being like, I can't believe that this is what I do for a living. Like, last night was an incredible moment in every single way. Not only a great finish, but just a great back and full of it. I mean, the last quarter, you wrote about this, just the idea that,

It was a perfect football game. It was exactly what you'd want on the biggest stage in the sport in a season where I think people had some concerns about how fun the game was. And last night could not have been more entertaining. I'm getting some tweets from people who were really, really angry about me calling this a good football game because they're like, well, what about defense? It's like, we love the idea of defense. In a perfect world, everybody would have a great defense and we'd appreciate it and all that.

But nobody actually wanted to see a 14 to 10 game last night. Why? Who are these people? This isn't the Big 12. Yeah. It's not like the Eagle defense is terrible. It's like Tom Brady is pretty good. And so is Rob Grunkowski.

Yeah. And so is the Eagles coaching staff. And for Nick Foles looked like a damn good quarterback last night. Yeah. Zach Ertz is good. Alshan Jeffrey is good. It was a good offensive game.

And the idea that you would be actively mad because it's not, it doesn't look like the 85 bears is, is pretty funny to me. Yeah. I don't understand any single part of that. I mean, there was no moment last time. I was like, oh, God, I wish there were more sacks. I mean, it would have been fun.

Every time there was a great back of the end zone touchdown, I stood up in booed because I was just angry. I wrote this morning, and I think that my kind of takeaway from last night overall, was just that that was who the Eagles are. And in kind of in every single way, I feel like every wrinkle, every layer of what made them the most complete team in the NFL was on display at some point in that game. And I feel like you saw it show up right at the beginning. I mean, you had that great LaGarapel outrun on the first drive. Excellent block by Kelsey and Brooks to kind of get him open.

I think it was a 36-yard run. And then they come back on the very next play and take a play action shot from the 40. And that's in their bones. That's who this team is. They run the ball. They take chances when they should. They really give their quarterback a lot of opportunities in play action. The ways they schemed third downs in this game, I wrote it.

I said that Zach Ertz is the type of mismatch and great space play. that becomes amuse for a coaching staff that really enjoys trying to find ways and create ways to put their guys in advertages spots. And they did it all game. I mean, I can tell there's 20 examples I can throw out there. I mean, it was just a brilliant,

brilliant showing by Doug Peterson. And just as much of a hat tip to Howie Roseman. I was in the locker room after and just like seeing him hug Tori Smith and J. Ajai with 10 second period. Like how many guys that they got this offseason showed up yesterday? it was unbelievable. I'll tell you who this is bad news for. It's bad news for all the lazy coaches and teams

who don't want, who think they can't make a one-year turnaround. Yes. And more importantly, and obviously there are some teams who cannot make one-year turnarounds just with the roster construction, okay? Let's leave that aside for a second.

There are some situations where that cannot happen. A team that loses its quarterback, we now have a blueprint for just no excuses, nobody panics. You know, they had the buy, which was an advantage, and they basically had a second training camp during the Biddis. Nick, Nick Folls up to speed,

but we can talk about that a little later. But Jack Del Rio, last year, Derek Carr goes out, he plays two quarterbacks, they're both horrific, and after the season, someone says, what lessons did you learn from the 2016 season?

And he said, don't lose your quarterback. Yeah. Well, Jack, the Eagles lost their quarterback, and all they did was turn Nick Foles into a, a low-grade version of Carson Wentz.

And it was never going to be Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz was the MVP of the league, in my opinion. But what they did was a modern football miracle. Getting Nick Foles as efficient as he was, it's awesome. And it's a credit to the coaching staff. It's a credit, by the way, to Howie Roseman, for building

an offensive infrastructure where he would be able to thrive because without Ertz, Jeffrey, you know, Tori Smith, the offensive line, there is no Nick Foles. Yeah, 100%. And I don't want to take anything away from Nick Foles because he did make some throws last night when he needed to. But I also think that, again, like when they've been successful,

the same thing showed up. I'm thinking of the throw to Corey Clement on the drive before they had the trick player for the touchdown. Third and three, the line up in shotgun, Clement's on the right side offset. They have him run a wheel outside. They know it's man.

He's playing against Jordan Richards. That's a mismatch athletically. He beats Richards down the sideline. He catches a 55-yard score. And five plays later, they have that fourth and one. We can talk about that play in a second. But Clement said after the game

that they were looking at the AFC championship game And they said oh well you know Look at the ways that Jacksonville used Corey Grant They clearly gave problems to that second level of the Patriots defense It's not very athletic And within a two week span they added a package Yeah to take advantage of that That is an incredible level of humility

Flexibility creativity That's exactly what this entire staff was all season And they deserve all the credit in the war Starting in the playoffs they went one starters against starters. Yes. In practice. And if you're not familiar

with practice, that doesn't happen. Not in this point in the calendar. Not at this point in the calendar. And most teams aren't even really hitting. Yes. And word is they were just they were getting after it.

And I think that there's a lot of coaches who wouldn't have done that, who would have been scared. I mean, Dougie P, man. To call that play on fourth one and fourth and one. Awesome.

So it seems like they stole it from the bears. I think that's what Frank Reich said. So that's what Frank Reich said, week 17 or week 16 or late in the season, is the coaching staff made reference to. Having said that, Peterson made reference to the collegiate game.

And Oklahoma ran that play. Yeah, that would have been in the same kind of timeline. Right. So I don't know. These things are always hard to pin down because my understanding about that. Nick Foles ran the play in high school.

Yes. But my understanding is not credit that last night. I think that this is, this offensive staff in general, I think that it's kind of not a seat. that's a very collaborative effort overall. I think that, D.

Filippo. And the analytics guys are involved. And D. Filippo, Frank Reich, and I think Peterson kind of go into the lab every Monday and just have a conversation,

what do we want to do? And I assume that maybe it was a kernel of an idea they got from the college game. And then the fact that they were going to install it against Minnesota, and that's who the Bears used it against. Yeah. That's probably where that's coming from. But again,

something that you hadn't done all season, that you just put in before the playoffs started, you have a fourth and one. It's a huge play. To even go for it in that scenario is ridiculous. Let's back up. The most important part is that Tom Brady had dropped a wide open sideline pass. It's so true.

30 minutes earlier. I checked in with Chase Serrano to see where that called on the disrespect index. And he's set extremely high. That's fair. Because it was, there's no way you can call that play without being, realizing that Brady had just screwed up a similar play. So it's true. I loved it. loved it to death. And it was funny, they all, I mean, those plays, and one of the best parts

about those plays is the guys want to run them. Yeah. Talking to Jason Kelsey after the game, he just kind of, you know, this big kind of treasure cat grin came over his face and he's like, we were so excited when they called that. Yeah. And it wasn't like, oh my God, I can't believe they're doing this in this moment. It's like, fuck yes. And that is just, that is the ethos of this team. And it's not just that. They went for on fourth and one again in the fourth quarter. And they, again, That's not, that wasn't super creativity. This was just who their offense is. They ran that gorgeous little pick play to Ertz where Selle got them open.

It's just, it's really hard not to get excited about this football team when they're clicking, just because every single element of it is enviable. It was awesome. I mean, it was this entire Eagle season start to finish. It's been a masterclass in how to run a modern NFL team. Whether that's salary cap, whether that's practice, whether that's the way you design plays on the money downs, third down and in the red zone. I mean, it was, it's, it's awesome.

Everyone should, look, the easiest way to get good is to always, is to have a quarterback. And that will always remain true. But what the Eagles showed is there are many different paths. And we learned that overall this season. I mean, look at the damn Jaguars. You know, we've talked about it many times. The golden generation of quarterbacks is aging out. There's going to be less great, great elite quarterbacks in the next five to 10 years.

And so there are going to be more teams like the Eagles or even the Jaguars who make the final for make the Super Bowl, who were just complete deep teams and maybe don't have the shortcut, which is quarterback. Yeah. And I think it's just, again, it's about adaptability and it's about malleability. And just like in small instances in that game. Yeah. Like we talked about, we talked about this last week, just like the mobility of the line for the

Eagles and how much for advantage it would be. And then they come out, the Patriots do like people thought. They have a nose tackle. They're not letting guys pull. And the Eagles essentially are like, okay. Like, this is how we normally. play. This is how we like to play. We don't need to play this way. We'll just go out and beat you. And on that first leggerap long touchdown, it's just picture-esque textbook zone blocking.

And it's just very good players with the ability to make adjustments instantly, constantly. I mean, Blaine Johnson said it after the game. He said, they came out with a lot of jam fronts. We expected them to. And he said, we came back on the first drive and said, all right, this is what they're doing? What are we going to do? It's not a half-time adjustment. It's an immediate adjustment. And I think that just, again, it speaks to the overall dynamic level of problem solving that exists in both that coaching staff and in that roster. Nick Foles wins a game. Eric Rowe is apparently still working for the Eagles as a sleeper cell. They're running mesh concept all the time.

Chip Kelly died for this. Yeah, it's true. Hey. Play action, baby. 21 play action throws. 72% of his passes were completed. Although I saw that stat last night. He completes like 78% of all his passes.

Yeah. So people are like completed 72% of times. He complete like he doesn't throw incompletions. Yeah. 80% of the throws that Foles had. I mean, Foles made some great throws last night. Let's let's not.

Yeah. But like a lot of those throws is just like, you know, you and I were laughing. They don't, the plan is not to throw within 50 feet of a defensive back on some of these throws. Yes. It's not.

Uh, he did make some great downfield throws. But in a lot of instances, uh, it was a little more conservative. I, Foles was amazing last night. I love this guy. It was fun.

I think he just really appreciated it. Just, I think in the moment. Yeah. I think he just really appreciated it, which I did. Very emotional after the, when he was accepting the MVP. And just I was in the locker room after. We can talk about that in a second because that was extremely fun.

And he just, you know, he came up, like, Duce Daley was walking out as Foles walked in. And Folls just looked at him and he goes, we did it. Yep.

And just like all, there's so many of those little moments. And then I was there. wrote about this was the lead of my what I wrote this morning but I was there when they were kind of wrapping up and Malcolm Jenkins was talking and just hearing him and what he said it just gave me chills and I did as when I wrote it again this morning which just said I'm in the league for nine fucking years yeah he said I've never experienced anything like this because I've never seen anything like this and that's not a guy who's going to bullshit you no like that is he very

much believes that and it was just amazing to kind of be there in that moment here him say that. So what's what the hell happened with Malcolm Butler? It's a great great great question. So if you don't know obviously you do know that Butler did not play after the game he caught up with Mike Reese and Adam Schaefter and said I guess you get catching up is one word for sure. He said they gave up on me and then he said the F word and they said it is what it is which seemed to be three unconnected sentences. Something had to have happened right? Yeah I mean something had to have happened or, you know, there were, I, there were always rumblings that the Gilmore contract upset him more than anything and that all year he's been down in the dumps. I don't know necessarily if that's affected

his play. I think he's, he's a professional. He still played 98% of the plays. No, I know, I know, but you just don't know if he's been missing a meeting here or there. You just don't know. I'm speculating. I feel terrible for speculating. I'm an idiot for it. But something has, had to have happened. Meeting, curfew, you know, yelled. How many times have we heard there's been stories? Guys get cut because they, you know, talked back to a coach in New England. And so it's, there are any number of things that could have happened. I think that I understand where Belichick's coming from because no matter what it was definitely a culture decision. It was just, we're going to, we're going to stick by the rules thing. It was a quicker, more recovery.

of knee-jerk version of the Jamie Collins straight. Sure. But my one counterpoint would be just win the Super Bowl. Yeah, exactly. Figure it out. You're going to make a point? It's a one-score game. Just win the Super Bowl and figure it out from there.

Yes, that's kind of my thought about all this as well. One time I was talking to someone who had just picked up a former Patriot and he had asked the Patriots why I'm trying to phrase this correctly he asked Patriots why he was available and the answer he got back was just Bill was tired of his shit I think about that all the time I don't know what that meant but like Bill was just tired of his shit he like didn't like his clone or something it's like

something like really neb like just really not offensive and just tiny but like it just grates on Belichick for like a long time he wore a sound garden t-shirt Belichick hates sound garden Belichick's a big pearl GM guy. Oh, God. No, I it's so strange. It was odd in the moment, but again, it's, you feel like one more corner

probably could have helped in a game where Nick Fulf pretty much do whatever the fuck you wanted. Yeah. And Eric Rowe, not great. Not great. I mean, it was, Chung was banged up. That was a huge. Yeah, I heard him. Chung is awesome. I mean, you can't

you can't have him a step slow in that game. So it was, uh, especially when Hertz is roasting you in every single big moment. Zachert's rules. God, he was fun last night. The two plays,

obviously the touchdown is, the touchdown is a combination of like six different ideas. One, it's just design. The fact that they split him out wide to the left,

they have trips on the right, they sprint, clement out in motion to kind of define that it's man coverage. You know he's working against McCordy one-on-one. He's excellent in those scenarios.

Foles puts the ball on the money and Erz makes an incredibly athletic play to score a touchdown. Yeah. But that was just like one of 10 plays where they did something cool with him. The one, it's the, it was like five minutes left in the game, third and six.

They lined him up and Trips is the inside receiver on the left. They had two guys on the outside as wide receivers. The wide receivers cleared out while Ertz did a little return route to kind to kind of get into that cleared out space. And they just do such an awesome job of finding ways to use him. And those are similar concepts in the sense that like let's find space for the guy who uses it better than anyone. And again, a perfect marriage between scheme and personnel and creativity. Speaking of the Eagles passing game, Alshan Jeffrey was asked about his back of the end zone touchdown. I've never heard someone say this and it rules. They said, tell me about the play. And he said, well, Carson threw it up. Carson, excuse me. Nick threw it up and made a good play.

And then I went up and made a hell of a play. He did. It's true. Spot the lie. Spot the lie. I made a hell of a play is an amazing quote. I've never heard someone take credit like that. And he's 100% correct. Alshod gave no fucks this entire week. Awesome. It was. And you know what?

That again, this is like, I think maybe revisionist and we're like reading into stuff just because they won the Super Bowl. Yeah. That is who that team is, man. Yep.

Like they are just like that. I wrote that in my column. Those guys, this was not an upset for them. No. Because. Good Lord, no. Those guys were confident the whole time.

And we see this every playoffs, you know, the team that is just getting completely bombed on. And they're like, well, we don't listen to the critics. We, you know, we have confidence in the guys in our room. And 99 times out of 100, they're just lying to themselves or lying to the media or lying to the public. Yes. This was a team. I mean, I've said this before. I was in the press conference when Doug Peterson said, you know, we're fine after Carson Wentz went down.

And I was like, what the hell is this? And I have to tell you something, the players in that moment were, were crestfallen. But I think they're more. Cressfallen as anything because they like Carson West a lot. For Carson. But there was a disconnect to that moment between Peterson and the players just because, you know, they realized what they had lost just as a person and certainly as a quarterback. But as we said, Jack Deweil, a perfect example. 99 times out of 100, they're just going to give lip service to the idea they're still in it.

This team was brash. They were confident. they were, I mean, I heard people saying they were overconfident, but it turns out they knew they were a badass football team. Two moments that'll stick with me just kind of speaking to that and what they were. Jason Kelsey after the game is what I'll remember most about last night. And just kind of how human he was in that moment and like how much he just kind of was basking in it. But also he was really contemplative. And he was talking about a lot of different things.

He talked about when he was 18 and how he didn't get a scholarship offer and like what his grandfather said to him. and how his parents told him not to give up and everything else. He was crying. And he said, now I've accomplished the most important thing and the biggest thing in this sport. And I've done it with the people who mean the world to me. And he was crying. And it was just fun to me to see all of those guys

really sit in how cool this was. Yeah. I mean, and that was the end of just, I don't want to say that other teams don't have cool guys. There's a lot of cool guys that I enjoy talking to on the Eagles. Malcolm Jenkins is one of my favorite podcast guests ever, significantly better than you. Oh, he's 100%. I'd rather talk to Malcolm Jenkins than anyone.

It should just be, actually should be Malcolm Jenkins. She should be either of us. Just have him do cowhurt for three hours. This Malcolm Jenkins doing takes. And so, you know, generally, you know, every team has four or five guys. I mean, like, there are like 15 guys I was really happy for last night. Kelsey Jenkins, Chris Long, obviously who won Super Bowl last year, but that's separate. I mean, even guys like Alshon Jeffrey.

I just love their personalities. I love watching Alshon Jeffrey win a Super Bowl. I mean, I joke that it's kind of depressing and everything else. I loved watching Alshan Jeffrey win a Super Bowl. He used to play for the Chicago Bears, which is a team you like. Yes, he absolutely did. And they let him go for agency. I wrote this.

Didn't he say that he was going to win the Super Bowl next year? Yes. So the other thing that I really, the moment that I, like, will stick with me for a while is Jenkins. After he gave the speech, he had the trophy in his hand. He went over to his locker and he was holding it. And I realized that. I realize this is an awkward comparison now because he just had a baby. But it's like, you know, when dads had like their hands behind their kids' heads when they're born,

like holding him like that? That's how he was holding the Lombardi Trophy. And he was just staring into it. It's like sitting over it in a chair. And I'll just, that is forever etched into my mind. It's like what he looked like in that moment. And it's just, it was cool. I really appreciate it for those guys.

I need to talk about something near and dear to my heart. And that is the 15% rule that I have been workshopping for four months. So, where to begin? The 2016 election, Donald Trump had a 15% chance to win on the morning of. We know what happened. The New England Patriots had a 15% chance at the beginning of the fourth quarter to win last year's Super Bowl. We know what happened. There was a 15% chance the United States would not make the World Cup.

Can't tell you what happened there. next the Jacksonville Jaguars had a 15% chance in making the playoffs according to win probability at the beginning of the season and this is that that particular

thing is when I started to realize the pattern because there were all this is all bullshit no no no no the 15% is actually 100% yeah that's what it would be yeah so then on the final day of the season

I look up the odds and it says the Buffalo bill so a 15% chance to make the playoffs 538 the morning of and I said I would like to tweet this, but it's just so far-fetched. Also, if they didn't make it, that would be really cruel. That is the wrong fan base to do that, too.

They would track you down. I don't want to, I don't want to, yeah, the 15% rule should not be used for evil. No, exactly. Yes. So on January 3rd, over a month ago, a reader named Colleen tweeted at us and said, just listen to Tuesday's episode. You should change your outlook to Philadelphia. She put a screen grab here of the Eagles winning the Super Bowl.

The odds are 15%. And then Colleen, thank you, Colleen. She sent it again last night after the game. So I was... So we could see it and realize that win probability is an Illuminati device that in which 15% is indication that it's 100%. When probability is trying to tell us something This is the beginning of a disaster movie

There's something There are patterns There are things that work here that we just don't understand This is the only thing I care about It's like Jeff Goldblum Like finding 15% Oh man I uh Yeah man I

I don't know I don't know what else there is to say about that game And again it was just that It was the most complete team in football Really being what they were What'd you think of the atmosphere I really liked it yeah I mean it was cool

there were that many Eagles fans. I loved it. I wish there were more. So in soccer, what they tend to do is they just draw a line down the bill and they say one fan base here, one fan base here, and then like 10% of the tickets go to corporate. That's what the Super Bowl should do. I understand that we need

a bunch of Visa executives there or whatever, but like think about how much cooler that game would have been if it was 50% Eagles, 40% Eagles fans all on one side of the field. Almost like a college bowl game. And the disappointment in most years is that that doesn't happen. Eagles fans showed up to a point that it felt like kind of a bowl game atmosphere.

Oh, it was incredible. I mean, like, every time they scored and they sang that goddamn song, it was, it was, it was amazing. It was, it would sound like a home game. It was like walking into Chris Ryan's office. Yeah, exactly right. By the way, congrats to all the ringer folks. I'm happy for him. I really am. Yeah. Yeah. Good for them. I am. I'm happy for Chris Ryan. I don't know where Eagle fans go from here because I know. I know a lot of, Eagles fans both in the ringer and outside the ringer and the Eagles being a constant disappointment is a big piece of it's a big piece of it yeah trust me I as someone who grew up with the Cubs I understand that but it's a little different with the Cubs it's like we're gonna you at

least you have sitting outdoors in a nice neighborhood and drinking yeah there's a certain like old style there's a certain innocent joy to the Cubs where like with Eagles it's all just like sludge and vitreale at least you have a good time at Cubs games like it's like there's like December 5th all the time with the Eagles. And you're just, you're wearing three layers. And they're losing to Dallas like 28, 24 to get eliminated from the playoffs.

And, and, you know, for some reason, whatever their big plan was, didn't work out, whether that's, you know,

or Chip Kelly or Andy Reed being an amazing coach and not knowing how to use his timeouts effectively, losing every time as a big game. I mean, they, this is a tortured freaking fan base, man. I'm happy for that

just that city in general you know what those guys said this a lot last night and I think they genuinely believe it and I've talked to guys who used to play for that team and I think everyone that has been an eagle at one point in time will say when it's going right there is no better place to play in the NFL than Philadelphia I mean it's people in that city love that team

and again this is guys who there's no reason for them to say this to me they're not on the team anymore right it's just that they you know there is something to that and yeah it's it's pretty damn cool man. I mean, it's also awesome. I was in the locker room yesterday and like watching Jeffrey Lurie like give the trophy to Brian Dawkins was really cool. I could just like I Brian Dawkins is my all time favorite players and it's like this is awesome like this is a really

sweet moment. A day after Brian Dawkins gets into the Hall of Fame, the Eagles win the Super Bowl and like he gets to be a part of it. I don't want to get too forward here. Nick Full's in a contract for another year. Yeah. You do what if you are a quarterback needy team and be the Philadelphia Eagles? Do you try to deal him? it's kind of tricky because you need to do it around the start of the league year because that's just when most transactions happen. That's when teams are signing guys. That's when guys are trading for people.

And it's sort of, I know it's a ruthless league, but that's extremely cold-hearted to trade the guy. Just want you to see a role. 40 days from now, something like that. And so, I mean, maybe you try to get value for them. If you're a, I don't know, I mean, think of a team that's going to strike out with everybody else who's not going to get cousins. I mean

I'm going to do the Cardinals Or the Broncos If the Broncos don't get cousins Do they go for Keenum Do they go for Sam Bradford So Foles, the problem with Foles here is twofold One He's making

He's not cheap He's not cheap He's a $3 million roster bonus That becomes due on March 18th So I have the same deal And it's great As long as I've been employed by that

which who knows at that point it's a month and a half away. That may not be. The issue here is that the Eagles are really castrapped. And I think the reason that they're really castrapped is when you have the best roster in football and you've somehow built it with smoking mirrors.

Eventually the bills come due and they're due now. And they're over the cap as it currently sits. So they're going to have to do something. And whether that's trading full. I mean, that's not like... They also like Nate Sudfeld. Sure. So it is coal, but like,

if you can save $7 million, or I guess it would be, yeah, it'd be $7 million because $600,000. The Lach would have traded him in the third quarter. Yeah, his roster bonus is the only thing that's still due to him.

And I guess there'd be $1.8 million in dead cap because his contract automatically voids next year in order to spread out some of the money. So, yeah, there's a possibility. I think they could absolutely explore it. But also, if you can save the money elsewhere and you don't know how much you're going to recoup in a trade, we've just learned how important it is to have a backup quarterback.

Like we just saw it happen. Patriots. Let's chat. What do you got? They lost. They're going to lose Matt Patricia and Josh McDaniels. They don't have the future of quarterback settled anymore. Don't know if you heard about that.

Trade of Jim and Garoppola. He heard about it. They have a defense that needs a lot of work. Or they just need, I don't know if High Tower is, you know, enough to make them a competent defense. And on the offensive side of Julian Edelman's reentry will make them the offensive juggernaut where it doesn't matter if the defense is subpar. I don't know. But it's going to be a weird transitional year.

If you're the Patriots, first of all, there's a report that Greg Shiana might be defensive coordinator instead of Brian Flores, which is slightly surprising to me. But Belichick loves Greg Shiana. Yeah, but he also loves promoting from within. Sure, that's five. Belichick loves Greg Shiana. But when was the last time he really went out? and did something like that.

It's a great question. It doesn't happen very often. I mean, then he just promotes from within. That's his whole thing. And so, um, where do they go from here?

I don't know. I think next year could be a very tough transitional year. I really do. I think that there are going to be some growing pains. I think that it's the idea that not having Josh McDaniels

is just something that Patriots can overcome instantly is silly and misguided and naive. You think he's one of the best coordinators in the world. He destroyed, destroyed the Eagles defense yesterday. Yep.

Like, there's no way around that. Like, the guy is unbelievably good at his job. So the fact that you're just going to be able to bring someone else in and hope you get the same results. I don't even know who it's going to be. That's another problem. They don't have a Bill O'Brien. No. Waiting in the wings.

Because they don't have a quarterback's coach, right? No. No. They have Josh McDaniels. Yes. Maybe they should just keep half of Josh McDaniels as quarter as and just promote, like the quarterback's coach version of them. Hologramed Josh McDaniels. just think about it

balashek's always about thinking about the box so here I believe two separate things I believe that the Patriots might have a really really rough year next year they will win the division by two games yeah

sounds right who else is it going to be they might win it by three games it's going to be like we're going to be writing what's wrong with the Patriots they'll go 10 and 6 those be like a really unspectacular team we're going to write

like from September through November what's wrong with the Patriots? 100 times. And then they're going to win the division and then win a playoff game. And they get bounced by the mighty Jaguars in the AFC championship game. That, um,

I was going to say Nick Foles. That would be incredible. Foles like best Belichick two years in a row. Foles is the Belichick, bogey man. I would love that to death. Well, I know we talked about legacy and how it didn't matter if Tom Brady lost. But how does he get the

goat mantle back from Nick Foles. He has to catch a big pass. He has to catch a big pass. Yeah. The other one element of the page that I want to talk about, we chat about this a little before we started recording. I feel like Rob Grancowski's performance yesterday is going to be lost to history. The degree to which Rob Grancowski is a ridiculous football player is just unfathomable.

Yeah. On the first Patriots scoring drive, he came across on a WAM Block and did something to Derek Barnett that like, no, human should be able to do to somebody that's the size of Derek Barnett. Yep. He essentially just crumpled him to the ground with his forearm. And then on the first drive of the second half, he caught four passes for 70 yards and a 75 yard touchdown drive.

His touchdown was a whip route where he just corkscrewed Ronald Darby into the ground. Rob Grum-Celsie is 6'6 foot six. He weighs 265 pounds. Ronald Darby is like a realistic quarterback. You shouldn't be able to do that to him in space. And then two drives later, they came back. And they ran a fade to him where he just dunked on Ronald Darby in the corner of the end zone. It's like, what is this person?

Like, he's not a person. Like, there is a being that is just beyond anything I can comprehend. And so it just was ridiculous to see. The comparison has been made to Shaq. And what I think is funny about Shaq and the Gron comparisons is they share one commonality, which is when, I don't know, say this, but when the game plan is, let's just give him the ball, it works 999 times out of a thousand. And yet sometimes they just don't do it for some reason. Yeah, I know.

You know, one of the things I watch. You just get bored. It's just like, well, why would we do this again? So I watched film a couple years ago at Chris Collinsworth's house in Cincinnati. And great house. Yeah. A phenomenal house. I like Cincinnati.

That sounds like a fun trip. That's the story. No, we were watching film. It was for a story. And he was before the Seahawks. Sure. And he was talking about matchups. And he was talking about linebackers on Grunk.

And he was saying one of the things he thought that Belichick did really, really well was he gets those matchups he wants. And this is a Brady thing too. And he just doesn't go to it. Because he wants to go to it when it matters. Which I think is a really interesting thing. It's a very, yeah. They will purposely get, okay, they'll get a slow linebacker on Gronk or, you know, a strong safety on Granc can't handle them.

But it's the first quarter with 14 minutes to go. And they're saying, you know what? We want them to think we're not going there. Yeah. And that you've effectively wiped out Grunk with your dumbass strong safety. And then when there's, you know, a minute left in the third quarter and they're down six, all of a sudden it's, oh, okay. Yeah.

It's time. It's basically John Wick. Basically like, oh, I'm back. Gronk's back. And I always think about that. Again, it's hard to know how much of it is gamesmanship. It's hard to know how much of it is a plan. Or sometimes I don't want to make it seem like gronk is open on every single play.

But when you target gronk a lot, you're going to be successful. And we saw that in the second half. Yeah, he was really, really good. He might retire. Yeah, that's one of those things. I wrote it this morning. Like, I'm not going to give too much credence to a 28-year-old superstar who just lost a very crushing game in heartbreaking fashion. Strange.

Talking about, like, his temporary mortality in the NFL. I'll wait for two weeks and then we'll have that conversation about Grancowski. Do you want to talk about the Strip Sack and just the reactions that we had to it? It was one of those moments where I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what was going on. Yeah. It just, in that play in general, and first of all, would have played by Brandon Graham. We talk about setting stuff up.

they again, the Eagles depth on their defensive line is their strength. Yes. In fact, they have so many guys. Yes. But again, this is another instance of flexibility yesterday, putting Graham inside all day, letting him work against Jack Mason. Yes. Bull rush, bull rush, bull rush, bull rush, when it matters most,

he goes to a little bit of a yank, gets his edge and makes the play of the game to seal it for the Eagles. I mean, it's just, that's it. And I think these guys talked about it afterwards, and Barnett said it. He said, you know, we weren't frustrated that we were. We hadn't gotten a sack all day. All year, we had really quick throws and just teams quick counting and getting the ball out. That's what they want to do against us. That's why teams are shorter the sticks more often than any other team in the league against the Eagles.

And then he said, we kept coming because we assumed there was going to be a play. One of the things, I just want to talk briefly about Brady's decision making on the last drive. Not that drive, but the next drive. Because I was having a minor meltdown. Yeah, you were not happy. because Brady had Gronk on a relief route underneath with, they got the ball back with a minute and five seconds, I believe, or a minute and 10 seconds,

something like that. And Brady was essentially the routes were kind of verticals in the middle of the field, gronk on a relief route over the middle, completely uncovered, streaking towards the sideline, and then something on the left side. I'm not clear what it was. But Brady was waiting on those vertical routes to develop

and they weren't because the eagle. The Eagles were playing so deep. They had a minute and 10 seconds. Gronk was wide open, 15 to 20 yards down the field. He could have easily gotten out of bounds, and he eventually did. But for the first couple of plays, they wasted a lot of time. Yeah. Not going to Gronk.

And I don't understand when you're that far back, I know you needed to, what, they needed about 85 yards, 90 yards, something like that. Terrible kickoff return. But they were letting Gronk go down 20 yards every time, 15 yards. And just get it, get it to him, get it out of bounds. get to a manageable spot. So then you could have had, they could have had three or four throws

from where they eventually had the Hail Mary. And that was the disappointment for me with Brady. That eventually, I'm sure, so they ran the same play in two out of three plays, one point. They threw it to Grunkowski on the last try, because I'm sure someone, or maybe Brady realized like, let's just leave well enough alone,

just take the grunk underneath. route and get the hell out of bounds. They were, Brady was playing into the Eagles hands on that, on that final drive. And the final play, again, you know,

this is, I just thought it was going to be a touchdown. I was so here's, but all the kind of machinations in that player are interesting. So again, the Eagles are fresh at the end of that game. Their defensive line is because they have so many guys coming in and out. So Graham again gets pressure this time as a defensive end.

Flushes Brady out. They did not want that to be the last play. I think they would have loved to have taken a shot toward the side. line and try to get one more and get a little bit closer so they could run a hell Mary. That was not a hell Mary. Grascon had to go chase that down. They were not in position to really give it the best crack because that's not what they wanted to be the last play.

The play started with 10 seconds to go. Yes. So, again, that's Graham affects that play and essentially makes it the final play of the game. I liked Brady's ability to step up in the pocket though. That was nice. He's back. He's pretty much always been able to do that. He's pliable.

He's 40 years old. He's incredible. He's been stripped sacked a minute and a half earlier. Well, yeah, but it's, he was stretched back from inside. No, I know. I mean, that's, again, it's part of the brilliance. Moving one of your best pass rushers, maybe your best pass rusher to defensive tackle and letting him attack Brady that way because you know it works. All right.

It's almost like they're good. Tom Brady, 505 yard, three touchdowns, no interceptions. Loss. Loss. Does he now understand what it's like to be Philip Rivers? Yeah, it's pretty much true. This is Philip Rivers' life. He's trapped inside Philip Rivers' life.

I feel no sorrow for Tom Brady. Well, I'm excited for like three months of Patriots are done talk. I think how Brady responds. Is it going to matter when Brady's the Jaguars quarterback next year? Backing up Foles. The Jaguars's depth chart next year is going to be Keenham, Foles, and Brady.

What percentage would you say Brady's on a different team next year? We say it's 15%. It's definitely 15%. I don't know. I mean, if Garoppolo were still there, It's 15%. Yeah. But I mean, now what are they going to do?

I know. Do you think Belichette's going to draft a guy in the third round? What if Belichick like trades up and drafts guy like in the top ten? Like a Mahomes thing? Yeah. Oh, wow. It would be the greatest thing. Who would it be, though?

I don't know. He probably doesn't like any of those guys. No. He hates millennials. Because he can't get them in the second round. So we say Bill Belichick hates millennials, which I'm a millennial and I hate millennials. And I believe you are a millennial who hates millennials as well. I am.

And I so I usually don't get along with it. It's another genius move by Belichick to hate millennials. All right. Any closing thoughts? Amazing game. Yeah. Really fun game. We should never take it for granted.

You know, I was going to tweet something and then I just forgot. But before that last drive, the second last drive, which we thought was going to be the last drive, Tom Brady going on with two minutes and 21 seconds. If you were to design the most cinematic moment you could possibly think of, it would be Tom Brady against an elite deal. defense needing a touchdown to win the game. And it's the Super Bowl. I mean,

how many opportunities do you get like this? I mean, we take it for granted because it seemingly happens every year. But, I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing. There are so few opportunities.

Jordan with the ball with 30, you know, with 22 seconds left in the finals. I don't know. What else? Derek Jeter I can trying to draw

it, uh, bloop single. I tweeted this before the game and I believe it. And I think that again, it even put it into it even more with the way it unfolded. Like, if I ever,

ever sit here like when the Super Bowl is about to happen or what it's going on and am not enjoying it. Like I want somebody to punch me in the face. Like it is, that can be arranged. It's just, it is so, it was.

again, you're sitting there, you saw me in the fourth quarter. I'm just, I had a smile on my face. And blood all over your face. I had the biggest smile on my face. Because it's like, this is incredible. And it's just every single bit of it as it unfolded at the end, the scene in the locker room after, just it is a, it is special to do this. It is special to do it every time.

I sincerely appreciate that you guys listen to the show and allow us to do it because I, I could not tell you how little I take it for granted. Yep. And yeah, I mean, it's it's a hell of a sport, hell of a game. It's only in a weird way, the sport, the sport keeps getting worse in certain ways. It's never, the injury rate is up. The officiating has never been worse. The league can't get out of its own goddamn way politically.

But there's a reason we keep coming back. You know, I've talked about this before, but the NFL league office, their formula. They say that the games are the highest rated and most visually arresting one as many points as possible and the margin of victory is as thin as possible. Yes. And that makes sense,

but we're actually in the golden age of that. If you see the numbers. Like we are, we have never, this last four or five years, we have never had more games like that where it's, it's, you know, breaking, where those 500 yards, where teams score 41 points in a win,

and it still comes down at the last play of the game. And that's why football, there's a million reasons why football rules, but that's why we keep watching. I mean, anecdotally, the playoff games I've been to in the last five years, Seattle Green Bay come back in the second half

for Seahawks go to the Super Bowl, the Minnesota miracle the other day, the three Super Bowls I've been to that the Patriots played it. I mean, it's just not even the numbers bear it out, but just I think our personal experience is buried out. Every single one of these is patently absurd. I don't know.

why these games, maybe because all teams are getting slightly worse and thus everybody's closer together. That's a tradeoff I'm willing to take if this is what we get the Super Bowl. You don't notice it. You don't notice it, but I'm saying like, you know, I just, I can't figure out why we're seeing so many classic games. I just know that I want them to keep coming. Yeah, I'm down. All right, buddy. That's it.

Good season. That's it. Thank you guys very much. I'm going to warm weather. Sincerely, I really could not appreciate it even any more than we do. We'll be back over the course of the offseason, but for now, we're going to go hibernate for a little while. That's a great word for it. Yeah.

All right. See you guys later.