The Ringer NFL Show - The NFL Needs to Figure it Out and Other Lessons Learned from the 2017 NFL Season | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 239)

Episode Date: February 23, 2018

The Ringer’s Robert Mays and Kevin Clark sit down to discuss lessons from the 2017 NFL season, including: A team doesn't need a good quarterback to win (11:40), Alvin Kamara is a unicorn (25:09), and coaching matters even more than everyone thinks (38:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, Robert Mays here. Just wanted to give you a heads up. I wrote a piece for the ringer.com on Thursday about what the Eagles need to do this offseason to maintain their ridiculous roster and all the challenges that go along with it. Kind of the lessons they can learn from Seattle, just the perils of having a team that's that dang good and how you try to maintain it. So you go check that out. I'd sincerely appreciate it. Also, please check out the Ringer NBA show Draft Class after you're done listening to this podcast. Kevin O'Connor and Jonathan Charks will be talking about the one and done rule.

to Andre Aiton. Please go give it a listen. It's the utmost importance to me as a Bulls fan because it is full-on tank season. All right, let's get to the show. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, we're back, man. Here we go.

I have a bone to pick with you. You just said it's full-on tank season for the Bulls. No, the Magic have a two-game tanking lead on the Bulls. That's insurmountable. The Magic are not winning two more games. Yeah, I understand. that there are only three games back in the lost column i was looking at it yesterday just because i was still harboring hope that it could go miserably down the stretch it's one of those things where

the jimmy bellot trade has gone too well like mark it's a real player and christ done has been interesting i like watching him and zach levine's fun i mean it's like there are too many good players in the bull somehow like they did trade neko merrititch because the team was too good the magic have never had that problem hey you know what i kind of don't want that problem right now no matter what happens thing is bound to go wrong at this point. Do you want to talk about the NBA for the whole show or do you want to get in some other stuff? We're talking about a lot of stuff. We were talking about books before we started recording.

It's that time of year, man. No, it's not because it's combine time, Robert. All right. We'll do plenty of looking forward here over the next couple months as the combine, free agency, the draft, all start up. Today, though, we're going to be taking a look back at some of the team building lessons we learned from the past year. So I wrote something similar to this a couple weeks ago on the ringer.com.

just about some of the lessons that you can learn, team building wise, strategy wise. I felt we felt like just because this week was a little quieter, it was a good time to kind revisit that. Well, it's also a very forward-looking thing because nothing has more influence over a season than how teams won the year before. Because I think that we have gotten this weird cliche, I'm like, well, it's a copycat league, whatever. That really is true because 20 of the 32 teams are just,

sort of scared teams that lack creativity and they just sort of maybe 30 and they lack creativity and they just sort of go with the way the wind is blowing and so you know the analogy I always think of when I think of stuff like this is when you look at what the Seahawks did with their defensive backfield five years ago where they say okay the market on fast shutdown corner There's only a handful of Dorel Revis's. We're going to get taller guys who blocked the passing lanes and are maybe a step slow. That's how they built that secondary. The Legion of Boom and the cornerbacks were, in large part, built on a bunch of guys who were six foot three and were undervalued prospects at that point.

What happens when they become stars? Well, every team in the NFL says, well, why don't we have a six foot two, six foot three cornerback? I remember talking to Jimmy Smith, the Ravens cornerback. And he was joking about how when he was recruited out of high school, people said, six foot two you can get out on a cornerback get the hell out of here and then all the sudden he's obviously a very valuable commodity once he gets to the NFL having said that you know I remember that guy Stanley Jean Baptiste is that I certainly do so do Saints fans I mean that's a good example I remember reporting that year and the Saints being like yep six foot three cornerback it's what you need to compete and then we obviously completely over corrected he's on his sixth team since being drafted in the second round of the 2014 draft. It goes out saying that Stanley Jean-Baptiste would not be a second-round pick had it not been for the trends of the league.

And so what I'm saying is that as we enter Combine season, as we enter free agency season, that is when we start to realize what team-building lessons these teams have learned from the previous year. I think there's a bunch of them. 100%. And then with the corners, just as a quick aside, that's when you start moving Julio and Keenan-ow and all those guys inside and then saying the six-three guys can't move. It's fun. It's always like this cat and mouse game that never stops,

which is why this league is constantly intriguing. Before we get into some of the lessons that we learn, though, I want to hit a tiny bit of news. A ton has happened over the two weeks that we've been gone. We're not going to dig into all of it because... A ton? I see a lot of stuff has happened. Josh McDaniels decided not to be the Colts coach on a whim.

That's true. I'd say that is something that took place over the last two weeks. I mean, some news has taken in place. We're not going to really hit all of it because that was a long time ago. But I do want to delve into something and happened earlier this week just very quickly because it's the most recent bit of kind of relevant news. And that's the Dolphins franchise tagging Jarvis Landry. Yeah.

There's a lot to unpack here. I think it has some implications and ramifications that go beyond just that that tag. I just want to get your initial thoughts on that. Why is Jarvis Landry? And I would put Derek Carr in this group. I would put a couple of other guys, but Landry is certainly near the top. Of NFL players who just make people online get really angry. Like, there are so many people who, when they tagged Jarvis Landry, were like,

what the hell is this? And I understand why that is. You know, the case for Jarvis Landry, I saw this stat the other day, 400 catches in his first four seasons. And that's the most by any NFL. player in history by 58 catches. Number two would be Anquine Bolden. Having said that, we know the case against him, which is that those

catches, at one point, I think he was like first in receptions this year and like, what, like 23rd in yards at one point? I think the disparity got a little less the season went on, but I mean, he's a short catch specialist. He is exactly sort of the modern, he's the receiver that is the, you know, he's the receiver that is the product of the modern quarterback play, which is throwing short of the sticks, going five, six yards, hoping

to break one and oftentimes not breaking one. And that's what I think frustrates people. I think that everyone, there's a lot of people in the scout tape guru community or the analytics community certainly who think he's very, very overrated. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. I like,

I think Jarvis Landry is a fun player. Yeah. I think tagging Jarvis Landry is a really dumb thing to do. The reason that they did it is because they want more time to try negotiate an extension and they want or trade them sure but i i just don't think that people are i don't think people are going to give up a lot for jarvis landry necessarily because you're going to have to give him a new contract sure and so you tag him and i think that the interesting thing with a tag is what sort of leverage does it give jarvis landry in a long-term negotiation with a tag

you essentially can say well screw you guys i'll play on the tag for 16 million i dare you to tag me again or then I'll be a free agent. I think essentially the floor with a long-term extension and guaranteed money when you're on the franchise tag for $16 million is probably next year's tag and this year's tag, which is $35 million. That's probably where his agent's going to start. Do you know how many wide receivers got contracts with $35 million guaranteed over the last decade? Over the last decade.

I'm going to see. Over the last five years. Seven. Four. Deontre Hopkins, Julio Jones, Des Bryant, Demarius, Thomas. AJ Green got $33 million guaranteed. You're going to give Jarvis Landry more guaranteed on this deal than you're going to give the Bengals give AJ Green.

He's not worth it. He's not in the same class of receiver as the rest of these guys. And I understand the market has been thrown out of whack. The Tavon Austin contract is weird. I think that one just really screwed things up. Even kind of the DeMonte Adams contract, him getting $30 million guaranteed. I like Devonte Adams, but it's a lot of money. Jarvis Landry isn't as good as Devonte.

Adams. No, he's not. And just, it's upsetting to me that there's like, he got 100 catches. He's going to get this. I understand why his agent is arguing this. I understand why he thinks he has leverage because he probably does. This is about the dolphins controlling themselves. If $7 million in cap spaces, things currently sit, they don't have that many clear cuts to make.

You can cut Lawrence Timmons. I'm sorry, there's a couple guys. You can cut Timmons. You can cut Wake to save some money. But for the most part, there isn't a ton of, obvious cuts that they can make. They're going to have to restructure some things. And I just think that giving Jarvis Landry

$16 million this year or whatever you're going to have to give him an extension is not prudent considering the money you have tied up other places. If somebody's going to pay Jarvis Landry, you don't have to. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I just feel like the Dolphins making another really short-sighted choice. Well, I feel like we know my Tannenbaum's track record at this point. He swings to the fences. He likes stars.

He likes taking risks. I guess you could say and Jarvis Landry having him in the building is better I think in my Tannenbaum's mind than not having him in the building because at least you can start getting some value for him

either just get him for one more year and have him on the roster or try to trade him for a pick or whatever but don't let him hit the open market I think that is that is the thinking here but I think generally I think the dolphins

maybe they want a security blanket for when Ryan Tannahill comes back this year. They're not going to, I mean, I don't know what to expect from this Dolphins team at all. I just don't feel like they're even close. They're in the realm of being close enough to rationalize this type of choice. That's all. That's what I'm saying.

Oh, no, I don't know what I would have done. I know that that's not very good takey, but I can see the argument for both sides. And what I don't see the argument for is signing Jarvis. You being the team to sign Jarvis Landry to the inevitable, you know, $16, $17 million a year contract. I don't think that's going to happen, period. That is indefensible. I think if you get, say it's the DeAndre, the Devonsei Adams contract, it's 14 and a half a year, 58 million.

I still wouldn't pay him that. I'm close to that. He's a slot receiver. But what kind of compick would you get for that? Probably something similar to whatever you're going to get when you make this trade. You think team's going to give you a two for Jarvis Landry when you have no leverage to trade for him? on the tag yeah no

no one no so why wouldn't you just let him walk and get the pick it just i understand that's not fun and you hate walking you hate watching talented guys leave but sometimes you have to do that it's just about self-control no i agree but look my tannabom has had a decade to show some self-control hey at that word this is not the argument we're having trust me we can get into that but that's an entirely different podcast all right anything else on jarvis no i just wanted to tell about that for a little bit. I thought it was interesting. We'll have plenty of time to talk about news over

the next couple weeks here in the lead up to free agency. But we're going to get to some of the lessons that we learned from the past year, Kevin. So why don't you start us off with your first one? So I think that this is the biggest lesson we've learned in years in the NFL because I think when you looked at the final four quarterbacks in the 2016 season, it was Matt Ryan, Ben Rothesberger, Tom Brady, and Aaron Rogers. And you look at that and you say, okay, well, we know what wins. It's really good quarterbacks and everything else falls in line. I think that some of the Aaron Rogers Packers teams have been the best evidence we have that a good quarterback can solve almost all of your problems. And I would say a lot of the Patriots offenses of the last decade have had been similar evidence when you just look at Tom Brady and what he's been able to mask.

The final four this year turned the league on its head. And I've shared this before. I've written this before. but a couple years ago, Holly Roseman told me that he looks at the Final Four of the NFL and runs full reports on them. Height, weight, college, where are they from? How many years did they stay in college?

They have their college degree. You know, were they free agents? How much money are they making? How many were undrafted? And the reason he does that is because he thinks if you average out the rosters of the Final Four teams, you can sort of figure out where the league is going and what wins. And sometimes they'll be a nominal.

ways or whatever, but I think it's an interesting strategy because you sort of get a snapshot of what wins. I feel like it's a thing. If you run in front office of an NFL team, you should do it. It's a very good choice. It makes too much sense not to. I would do it if I were you. Yeah, that sounds right.

Hey, you, Mr. GM, listen to that advice from Mr. Hallie Roseman. Although, oddly enough, we were, that, he told me that during Chip Kelly's reign and we were talking about some of the strategies Chip had, but Howie gave me that, that little nugget then. Now, the point is the Final Four this year featured Blake Bordels, who could have easily made the Super Bowl, had the fourth quarter gone a different way. It had Nick Foles. Nick Foles ended up winning the Super Bowl.

It had Case Keenum. Case Keenom was a guy who, I have said this before. I got to training camp in Minnesota. I did not know Case Keenom was on the team until I saw Case Keenum in front of me at training camp in Minnesota. that's all you need to know about this year's quarterback market case kingdom by the way super impressive great slow newsday guest if you haven't watched it excellent really enjoyed

it excellent slow news day guest huge peeky blinders fan yeah you had the only ones in america is jason galley is the peeky blinders fan i'm not i'm not i'm sorry he had an off camera um rant about tom hardy that i thought was very good he's a big tom hardy guy having said that's fair i mean i understand that line i'm thinking i've been a big tom hardy guy in the past i've cooled on it since What cooled you on it? I don't know. I just think he had a kind of questionable run. I mean, that FX show that nobody really watched was called Taboo. The one he did it with his dad.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's some choices that I was not a huge fan of. We've also, we don't need to get into it, but I'm not the Dunkard guy that you are. Oh, boy. He, uh, Case is a big fan of legend, the movie where he plays both Cray brothers. Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen it too. It's a great Hardy performance, but not a great movie. What's the, you know what Tom Hardy movie I really enjoy that is kind,

was kind of overlooked even at the time was Locke, the one where he's driving the whole time. Really good. Any movie where someone's driving the entire time is a good movie. I like movies that are kind of constrained to one location. I've always enjoyed those. I think they're interesting. Like, die hard is the perfect example of this,

but there are a lot of them. Speed is a driving the whole time movie. Yes, speed is die hard on a bus. I mean, like, that's exactly what it is. Hmm. All right. So, anyway, the point being that if you ran a report on the final four teams this year,

you would get a very different report than 2016. And I think what the path that's now laid out for teams is that you can win without a quarterback, which we had no evidence of until this year. You can win as long as everything else is perfect. And now it's laid out in front of you. What are the odds that A, you're going to find a great quarterback,

and B, everything else is going to be perfect? because they're about the same. They're about the same. They're both really hard to do. And so I don't think it's as simple as saying, we're going to build a great defense or we're going to build skill position guys around this quarterback and make them great

or anything like that. I think that those paths are equally hard, but there's now two ways to do it. And that's what I find fascinating about all of this. Because the Jaguar, we had a discussion. I was in this room last July, and we said how many teams can win the Super Bowl? And we listed them.

and I think I had 17, you had 16, and I brought up the Jaguars to you. And I said, can, are either of us listed in the Jaguars? We both said no. And the reason is because, and we acknowledge at the time the defense was going to be unbelievable, but we acknowledge at the time the quarterback was too big of a hole to make up. I don't think we're going to have that discussion this July. The next time we come up, come to the next version of the Jaguars,

we're going to say, yes, this team can make the Super Bowl, because of what we sell with the Jaguars. Now, what did we have with the Jaguars? Okay, we'll start with this. For the first half of the season, you had a really, really good Leonard Fournette. That dissipated as the year went on, but he was really good

and he was able to at least get the ball rolling in some of those games. I mean, the game against Pittsburgh in October, I'll remember forever. On defense, you know, Callais Campbell, Malik Jackson, AJ Boyer, Jalen Ramsey. I mean, just an incredible collection of talent

that was built. A spotless unit. Built through free agency in large part. Campbell, Boyer, Malik Jackson, Barry Church on the back end. I mean, they went out. Tashon Gibson. They went out and they identified talent. And I think that just the, what the Jaguars did,

I think it's not an overstatement to say what the Jaguars did last year with just having a whole quarterback will change the face of NFL team building. I think that's fair. And I have a few thoughts about this. One, I agree with you in a lot of ways. The other thing I will say is what did hold the Jaguars back from the Super Bowl was Blake Bortals. Sure. So I think that that's something always to take into account is that eventually your quarterback is going to hurt you in most cases.

The same can be said if you have the quickest and easiest path is to have a great quarterback. Sure. And in the same way that a Blake Bortles can hold you back from making the Super Bowl, so too can a mediocre defense if you're going the great quarterback route. Yeah, and I think that I agree with you in a lot of ways. And here's what I'll say about the building a great team, building a perfect team outside of the quarterback and how hard it is compared to finding a quarterback. I think this season taught us a lot about how quickly you can turn around a roster. Yeah.

I mean, even though the Saints have Drew Brees, I think they're maybe the best example of just how fast an infusion of talent at the right positions can change everything. I mean, if you have one home run off season, you can kind of just alter the entire complexion of who you are. And that's possible now because of a few different reasons. One, teams are playing more rookies more often, just because that's how it is now. I mean, you really are throwing guys into this situation because there are fewer mid-tier veterans. We know that. You're really giving your draft picks the shot right away, which gives you just an infusion instantly. Two, the cap's going up. Free agency is just more of an avenue to prudent team building than it's ever been before because the cap has exploded and there are guys to be had.

And I think that that is my first lesson. I think there are worthwhile players to be had each year. It's just a matter of finding the guys that are available for the right reasons. So let's look at Jacksonville. I think Campbell and Boyer are fascinating cases. Campbell leaves because the Cardinals have found some young players that they had to pay that are really promising guys. So think about the guys in that defense that have gotten extensions.

Patrick Peterson. Chandler Jones just got his essentially right before Campbell left for Jacksonville, Terran Matthew. So those guys got paid. There are a lot of money tied up in the defense. They draft Kim Dice as Campbell's essential replacement the year before. The succession plan is in place. You can see why he was gone.

They didn't jettison him for no reason. Right. Boy A becomes a star in 2016. By that point, they had already given Kareem Jackson an extension in Houston, excuse me, Jonathan Jones is on a new contract, and they drafted in the first round. Boy is an undrafted guy that just did not fit into those plans. You cannot allocate that many resources of that position.

He's gone. Think about Robert Woods going to L.A., new regime in Buffalo. Sammy Watkins is available for the same reason. So is Ronald Darby. Alshon Jeffrey was not the perfect of the Ryan Pace regime, hurt consistently available on a one-year deal. Timmy Jernigan plays on a team that pays Joe Flacco $25 million, dollars and has a lot of high-priced veterans, he's a cap casualty.

These guys are out there. It's just a matter of finding out why they're out there. Don't find the guys that are available for no reason. It's like, oh, you know, he had a solid year. You know, don't pay Andre Branch $10 million if you're Miami. That's the, those are the missteps here. There are contracts to be had. And the other side of this is it's not necessarily just the guys in free agency.

I think trades have become a really big deal. can you find a guy that has one or two years left on his contract that is available again for reasons that makes sense? Let's think about Jarvis Landry again for two seconds. If you're a team that needs a slot receiver and you're looking at Jarvis Landry and he wants a deal that's five years 55 with $35 million guaranteed, why wouldn't you call the Giants who just got a brand new GM and call and say, how much would it take to get Sterling Shepard from you guys?

he's on a million dollar contract for the next year. He was a free agent in 2020, I believe, since two years worth. Why wouldn't you call and say, what about a three for Sterling Shepherd? Those are the types of choices I think the smart teams are going to make. It's exactly what Philadelphia did last year. And it's how they were able to supplement the areas over the roster, but not at a huge price. So here's what's interesting to me is I remember talking to, again, how I were always been on a different day.

down with them. We're talking, I think the Eagles had just gotten D'Amico Riance. And five years ago. Yeah, a long time ago. And I just jumped on the NFL beat like that, obviously that summer. And I remember talking to him and he was talking about the Jonathan Vilma situation. And he was saying that the easiest way. So Vilma was traded in 07 from the Jets to the Saints because essentially he fit better. in, he did not fit the Jets defense as well as he could have under Eric Mancini.

And Roseman again. Funny now that those trades used to happen. What's the last time the guy got traded for schematic reasons? Well, no, but that's what, that's what old Howie's going at here. I love that my first two anecdotes are just things Hallie Roseman told me. I also think it's funny that for like four years, I didn't tell anyone when Haller Roseman told me because he wasn't considered, like, this was all on the record. We were sitting in his office, but like he wasn't considered like the genius that he is now.

And I was like, well, let me tell you what Howie said. Yeah. Dig back in your Howie stories. Yeah, oh, here come the Howie stories. And he said that, you know, the best way to get a guy is that there's a schematic change. And, you know, Jonathan Vilma at the time was a great example. Obviously, a key contributor to a Super Bowl team. But I don't think we look at that stuff enough.

Why are guys available? Are they August cuts because they're too slow? I mean, by the way, cap casualties are. are lessening by the year. So that's one thing to consider is the guys are not necessarily being cut for financial reasons like they were four or five, six years ago. So I think- Not cut, but squeezed out.

Squeezed out, right, right? Or unsigned, yeah, exactly. That's not happening at the clip it used to happen at. But the guys aren't getting cut, period, anymore for cap reasons, for the most part, unless teams are dire situations. But there are guys getting squeezed out that are worth having. Sure. But so I think you just exactly hit the nail on the head. You have to look at why these guys are available.

Clayas Campbell is available because the Cardinal decided to use their resources elsewhere. You know, it's the Jaguars Defense is a masterclass at figuring out why guys are available and picking them up. All right, buddy. Before we get to the rest of our lessons from 2017, let's take a quick break. This is JJ Reddick, here to talk to you about the JJ Reddick podcast, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. Currently, I play in the NBA for the Philadelphia 76ers, but you may know me from my previous teams, the LA Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks, and the Orlando Magic, or from my college days at Duke University. Being a professional basketball player, I have a great opportunity to talk to a lot

of interesting people, and the podcast is a place where I can share those conversations with you, the listener. On my show, I sit down with athletes, celebrities, and a variety of other special guests. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the JJ Reddick podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. All right, buddy, let's keep going with these here with lesson number two. what you got with your second one. So I think that another really interesting wrinkle to happen

last season was the emergence of Alvin Kamara as an all-purpose I mean, badass? Would you call him a badass? I think that's fair, yes. I mean, he was just awesome and at a position that I think was getting

a little less relevant by the year running back. A hundred targets out of the backfield, 81 receptions, 126 yards. On the ground, 728 yards, 6.1 yards per attempt. So ridiculous. A lot of the fantasy guys have been talking about the trend of wide receivers running

less routes. You know, one of the things about the top four quarterbacks in 2016, the ones that were in the conference championship games, is I remember they were all the top four by passerating at throwing to four. and five wide sets. Last year. In 2016, yes. And what that indicated is they were just great point guards and teams are just spreading

out the defenses and letting it rip. You know, it was a wide receivers league. What did the Falcons teach us that, you know, you got to have five wide receivers and just throw it all over the place? Now here comes the running back. And that's what I find really, really interesting. And we're going to see that. In the same way that teams overdrafted freaking Stanley Gene Baptiste, we're going to see a

couple running backs go half a round higher than they should. Alvin Kumar was a third round pick, 67th overall. I loved him from his testing numbers, and I got some heat because, so he had a vertical jump of almost 40

inches and a broad jump of 131 inches. And I didn't really know who he was last year. And yet, I saw those numbers. I saw some of his film, and I said, this is a guy who's a player, and I tweeted about it, and I got some push back and I will not be petty about the pushback.

Now, what's going to happen this year? You have Barclay, who might be a top five pick. He's obviously very different back from Kamara, but our team's going to look at the impact that Kamara had and say, this is a guy who can be it. I think, you know, the Leonard Fournett thing was probably a, what, would you say a mark against taking her running back in the top five? Yes.

Yeah. And also, I mean, Fournette was not the... McCaffrey, was a mark against taking one in the top 10. But right. And McCaffrey, by the way. Is in this mold? Is in this mold?

Yes. Yeah. Camaro is what Camarra is what McCaffrey was supposed to be. And so now it becomes finding the actual Camara and not finding the guy who's just going to be a B plus version of that. They're going to be so, this history is going to be littered with the corpses of failed Alvin Camaros. Oh my God.

Yes. It's going to be so terrible. Because even what you said, and his testing numbers are off the charge. It's the guy's incredible athlete. Alvin Kumar is not good because Alvin Kamara jumps high. No, he suggests incredible vision and wiggle and like. Right.

There's a baseline athleticism I like to see him by running backs. Yes. But I mean, his greatness is born out of like these really hard to define qualities that were difficult to see in college. Sean Payton even talked about this. He said if we knew what kind of ruddery was, we would have taken him in the top 10.

But they didn't because there just wasn't enough of that on tape to really understand. how he'd be able to run in the NFL. Do you remember when it was like boy band mania and record labels in like 2000, record labels are just signing any group of of five people and they were just like, here's a million dollars. And no one else became famous after Insank in the Backstreet Boys. That's going to be the next three years of running back drafts.

Just trying to find Alvin Kamara. Alvin Kamara is a unicorn. Some dude is just going to be the O-Town of the running back world. I'm from Orlando. know and so everybody who was like five years older than me was getting a record contract if they wore like white tank tops did you ever you probably never died your hair your hair is blonde enough no why would i did i did in like seventh grade there was a little blonde in my hair in seventh god it was it's a choice i regret a lot wow life lessons from 2000 hey the early 2000s were a

rough time for all of us man none of us made good choices not me i i stand by all my decisions Hey, good for you, buddy. I'm proud of you. I had hair down to my shoulders. It was the time. It was the time. Sure. So anyway, the point is, find an Alvin Kamara, but on the other hand, good luck

finding Alvin Kamara. I just think it's about diversifying your skill sets off. Yeah. I mean, that's really, finding Alvin Kamara is great. I mean, you should try, certainly. But even with the Eagles, think about Corey Clement. Think about Corey Clement's not in that game. Yep.

I mean, he's such a huge part of that offense in the Super Bowl, because he gives you something a little bit different. And that's an undrafted free agent, but it's other guys from this season. Just McCaffrey is going to be a good player. I think that he's going to be a fun guy who's really useful in NFL offenses. Maybe not with Norv Turner. Maybe it's over now. But it was fun while lasted, I guess.

North Turner is going to have him as a slot receiver. He's going to try to turn him into Alvin Harper for some reason. Well, Christian, it'd be great. It'd be great. It'd be great. How old is he just? Now is he's 70? It's got to be at least 70, right?

feel like you just stepped all over my C plus North Turner impression. North Turner is only 65 years old. That's shocking. Well, Christian, we're going to, we're going to make you. We're going to make you run the 9-8-9. You know what? It's the off-season, so I'm going to give you the C-plus. I'm really going to give you some leeway here.

You're going to really, you're going to listen to North Turner later and realize that it's an A-plus impression. You think guys like what the bears are going to do with Trey Cohen next year? A guys like that. Sure. I mean, I just think that they're so useful. Think about what Chris Thompson was in the passing game for Washington. I mean, there's so many guys that can just affect the game in pronounced ways from that spot.

And I just think it's really worth trying to find it as much as you can. Pass-catching running backs are not a new idea. But again, I think teams just don't do a good enough job of finding different sorts of players on their offense. Too many teams are still too homogenous. Think about what the Patriots have done with the three running backs that they had. Look at the teams that do their shit well and try to emulate it. guess there's the entire point of the podcast, but it's not that complicated.

No, it's not at all. But I mean, we had, the last 75 years of football have been like four guys going, I know what to do. And the other 28 guys going,

I'm going to do it my way and going three and 13. Yeah. Do you know how many freaking coaches you and I sit down with or GMs in August? And I'm always like, you're going to try this thing. And it's always some exciting. revolutionary thing that's going to be really successful. And I was like, well, we're going to do it the way we've always done it.

And then that guy is subsequently working for the NFL network. Yeah, that's true. On the draft coverage the next year. That's going to come a little bit later in the show. Don't worry. My second lesson before we get to that one is I think that what we learned from free agency last year especially. And then as teams built their roster over the course of the summer a little bit, flooding

the market at positions of need works. Just hit it as hard as you can. And the two spots I'm thinking about just to really jump out here are the Eagles cornerbacks and the Wham, the Wams wide receivers. The Rams wide receivers. In Philly, they go out and just as many dice rolls as they can find. Patrick Robinson for a cheap deal. Go out and trade for Ronald Darby. Draft Sydney Jones.

Draft for Sewell Duggis. Four guys. So you add those to Jalen Mills and Watkins or whatever corners you already have and just say, here we go. Like, it's Thunderdome. Go get your spot. And giving yourself as many chances as you can is so important there. I mean, I remember I tweeted when it happened that the Ronald Darby trade could swing this season for Philadelphia.

Like, that's the one spot that really they needed a better player and they went and got one for nothing. I mean, they gave a pick. But in terms of the salary cap, which matters more to this Eagles team than a third round draft pick, they gave up nothing. And it worked. They managed to find the right combination. of players to give themselves a shot at that spot.

And eventually it became Darby on the outside with Mills and then you have Patrick Robinson on the inside. Now it becomes slightly more problematic. Robinson will most likely leave for monetary reasons. Who's going to step in there? Is it Jones? Whatever. But you give yourself a shot.

And then with the Rams, it was free agency and trades, but it was also the draft. So you go out, you sign Robert Woods, who, again, is somebody that was available for a reason. You trade for Sammy Watkins, available for it. the same reason. You draft Cooper Cup in the third round. Okay, we have an entirely new receiving core. Tavon Austin is barely on this team anymore. Let's give Jared Gough a chance. And the teams that could do that this year, I think there are a few of them. The first one that comes to mind is the bears and receivers, just because it's something I've been thinking about constantly. And I think that Rams blueprint makes a lot of sense. So if you're Chicago, it's not about going out and finding

the biggest money receiver that you possibly can. That's not the answer to this. Go out and find somebody again available for the right reason. Do you know who's not available for the right reasons this year? Sammy Watkins. He's not. The Rams could sign him if they wanted to. If he hits the market, he is not a guy that's available for a reason. He's available because the Rams don't think he's worth what Sammy Watkins does.

I think he's incredibly talented, but that's a buyer beware sort of deal. So if you're the Bears, can you go get, Eagles receivers is also a good example of this, by the way? Sure. Can you go get Alan Robinson on the Alshon contract? Can you go sign a second-tier guy maybe in the Albert Wilson vein to a mid-tier deal? Can you go find another guy in the second or third round? Give yourself chances while not necessarily breaking the bank or spending in an imprudent way.

And that's the concern. That's the challenge. But I think it's worth giving yourself as many shots as you can. Don't say, eh, we need three receivers. We'll go get one. Go get four for nothing and see if it works out. And teams don't often do that enough. And I just feel like both the Eagles and the Rams did it so well last year.

Tave on Austin has played five seasons in the NFL. Do you know how often he's had a catch rate above 60%? Zero. Once. That's even shocking. It's probably what he caught a lot of pitches that year, a lot of shovel passes. Yeah, sure. He played in all 16 games last year, and he was targeted 22 times and caught the ball 13 times.

Yeah. they should have just sent him home trust me they might as well have at that point but he's making enough money that it's probably bad optics they should have just been like go home would anybody have noticed no probably not would anybody have noticed

if like rap sheet or shifter on like January 5th just tweeted maybe you didn't know this but Tavon Austin hasn't played for the Rams in two years Charlie is a better player than Taman Austin significantly better but it's still one of those like we paid him because we thought we had two deals.

It's like, no, you don't have to pay anyone. You never have to. It's not a requirement. This isn't the MLB All-Star game where you need a player in the game. By the way, this isn't how it works. By the way, the table on Austin thing is a good example of an over-correction to an NFL trend, which was that at that point in 2013, 2012, you just needed the gadget

guy. Yep. On the interior. I wrote about this. Yeah. And so it's like, well, we can do this. We'd say we can draft this guy eighth over. all.

Man, that was a rough draft. I mean, I don't, you didn't want D. Milner, who was right behind him. I don't know. I mean, I guess Sheldon Richardson, five picks later. That's not bad. Kenny Vicaro. God, I mean, that was the Jackson's draft, right?

Hopkins was in that draft. Yeah, sure. He was a 27. I mean, I think you, if you're the Rams, you probably take the, yeah, no, no, yeah, yeah, yes. And they also did take Alec Ogletree. Great stuff. Travis Frederick. Are we sure Travis Frederick is not the best player in the first round aside from Hopkins?

I feel comfortable saying. Lane Johnson is pretty good. Lane Johnson's pretty good. Yeah. Hopkins and Travis Frederick and Lane Johnson are still not a great first round, but all those guys are good players. Levi-on Bell is, it has the most, Bell, Bokhtiari and Travis Frederick, according to Provo Ball reference value metric are the top three. players. Tyrone Matthew's pretty solid. Travis Kelsey. First two rounds for the Eagles in this draft. Lane Johnson, Zach Ertz. Not bad.

Pretty good. Yeah, sometimes you need to draft flow in order to build good teams. Was this, this is a Chip Kelly here, though. He didn't have personnel control. No, this was the year before that, right? Yeah. All right. Before we get out of here, what is your third lesson that you'll take away from this season? So, what, what happened in the last five years in the NFL cannot be overstated as far as technology. And a lot of the data that is going on player tracking devices is going to become public within the league, not to all public people. And that's going to change it even further.

But that's a separate discussion. iPads and the ability to cut film instantaneously changed scouting in a way that I don't think a lot of people understand. And I remember it was Shanahan. And a lot of guys have talked about this sense, including old North Turner. Well, Kevin. And the point is that you can steal plays.

And Shanahan used the word steal. You can steal plays really quickly and implement them. And you can give them to every single player on video with 10 different examples to their iPads. If they're not at the facility, if they're in the cold tub. In 10 minutes. In 10 minutes, dude. In 10 minutes.

So what happens? The life cycle of schemes. speeds up. So what was a natural conclusion of that? Well, it's that this year we got to see a lot of teams make adjustments on the fly and change a lot of their offense and have backup plans. Case Keenham was a backup plan. Nick Foles was one of the best backup plans in the history of football.

Okay? And so what starts happening now is that we're going to study what the Eagles did with Nick Foles for the next 10 years. as far as implementing the schemes that he was comfortable with, the throws he was comfortable with, keeping some of the stuff he liked. You know, John DeFilippo, Frank Reich, and Doug Peterson met with Foles and said,

what do you comfortable with? And then they built an offense around that. And part of the reason they can do that is the technological stuff. And I said this the day after the Super Bowl on our podcast. It's a bad, bad time to be an excuse maker if you're a coach. Because you can figure out anything really quickly. You're going to start to see, you know, RPO's are a great example. I wrote in August that RPO's are going to define this season.

And there were a handful of teams. I know people don't really understand it, but the Bengals were at one point a really good RPO team in the 2016 season. They didn't maintain their edge on the RPO game this year. But there were certain teams that were really good at it. And some of the smarter teams, the NFL said, okay, we're just going to steal those plays. In July, I'm not making this up.

In July, I asked a defensive coordinator of a good team. An allegedly good team. I said, tell me about the secret of stopping RPO's. And he said, what? He said, RPO's. And he said, I don't know what that is. So I start defining it. And he's like, are you talking about the option?

And I was like, no, I'm not talking about the option. And I explained to him an NFL defensive coordinator in 2017 what an RPO was. It's great stuff. That team didn't make the Super Bowl. Spoiler alert. Okay? And so I think you have, do you think if I called that guy right now and asked him what an RPO is, he would fucking know? I don't know.

He just have a job. Yes, he does. Then he probably should know. He does. But it's like, that's it. And so what I'm saying, the point I'm trying to make here is that we went from a league where there were some coaches who didn't know what an RPO was to every single team in the league. knows how to run one and knows how to defend one. And that happened in four months.

And it's going to keep getting quicker and quicker and quicker. Adjustments, it is the golden age of football adjustments, ladies and gentlemen. Mine is incredibly close to that. I mean, it's very related. And mine is just that coaching matters even more than everyone thinks. Sure. I mean, just think about every single example. And the Eagles are obviously the best one.

I mean, just the way they built that offense, the way they constructed it, the play calling, the play design. The RPO is obviously just as a way to, again, take advantage of something teams clearly weren't ready for and that teams didn't plan for and that puts your players in positions to do well. And then combine that just with expert third down design and management. Incredible pre-snap motion. Understanding how to put your guys in the right positions to succeed.

Using Zach Ertz is that ridiculous weapon. I mean, these are all ego-specific things. But again, this goes down to coaching and talent implementation. Peterson is a good example. McVeigh is maybe the best example of just what you can do in a single year to revamp a unit in terms of attitude, structure, all of that stuff. Yeah. The Chiefs offense.

What the Vikings did with Pat Schumer, I mean, they tweaked it a little bit with Keenham, but it was really just those are the principles of that offense. We're going to use a ton of play action in order to create some easy throws for receivers is that are just incredibly good at creating space. Look at what Kyle Shanahan did in five games with Jimmy Garoppolo. I just feel like coaches that are really willing to kind of go into the laboratory and say, what is next are going to succeed? And I feel like the thing that I took away from kind of the nuts and bolts of it all

was just formation diversity and just dressing plays up, play action, motions. I mean, it just seems like the coaches that are really willing to kind of derive some sort of pleasure from this are the ones that are going to succeed. I mean, you look at what McVeigh does and what Peterson does and what Shanahan does and everybody else. And it's just like, oh, they just like this shit. They just love being able to kind of be like, oh, what if I did this? And just kind of the riffing and the tweaking, we've seen what that can do for a team.

And again, I go back to the Bears and what Nagy could be for that and just kind of bring that level of creativity, ingenuity, design, all that stuff that just was absent. you think about what the Titans are going to do with that offense. I don't know the answer to that, but they were the antithesis of it this year when it came to predictability, not playing to your guy's strengths. Essentially what you talked about with, I'm going to talk to this coach about this really revamped kind of

revitalizing idea about NFL football. He's going to tell me, no, you know, we're good. That's essentially what Mike Mularky did to you. Dude. Now, Michael Markey, I think, about the Mike Mularky conversation every day. Hey, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

If I were to text you, and I was like, a coach just said to me, when I said, are you going to run college spreads elements in your game? And the coach said to me, the coach said to me, I'm going to keep doing what's worked for 20 years. And I was like, tell me who said that.

You'd say, oh, Belchek, McFey, somebody like that is really great. And I would say, Mike Mularky. Jesus Christ. This is what I'm getting at, though. I think that what the Colts did with Reich and just scooping him up when they didn't get McDaniel,

I was just saying, all right, this guy did something that was interesting all season. Let's go get the guy that did something interesting. That's what I want to see. Are you getting a coach that really seems like he wants to figure this game out? And the best coaches this year did that. And I think that they really can give your franchise a jumpstart in a way that maybe we didn't by the way the whole life cycle thing

that that's going to play itself out with the coaches the coaches the coaches need to be younger unless they've already figured it out adapt or die has never been more relevant ever and if you're going to hire some mediocre 50 year old you're much better hiring some 29 year old

tight ends coach who actually understands the modern game I'd rather like there's some coaches where I just rather have like the quarterback coach at, I don't know, name a Good Spreads college school. My team hired Mark Helphrick to be its offensive coordinator. Yeah, sure. Sure. I'd rather have Mark Helphrick than

some of, you know, some of these retreads. And he has interesting ideas. Like, Shermer's a retread in the sense that he was a head coach before, but the guy did a great job. And it's like, even with Andy Reid, we've written about this, we've talked about this. The most innovative coach in the NFL this year was a 55 year old guy who's been in the league for however long. I mean, it's just a matter of surrounding yourself with the right people. And about, again, building a group of decision makers and idea folks that are genuinely

interested and genuinely enthusiastic and curious about the game. Figure it out, NFL. All right, buddy. That's all we got. That's what we learned. That's what we learned. Figure it out. Figure it out, guys.

All right, that's all we got for today. We'll be back next week to chat with everybody about the combine. We'll be at the combine. We'll be at the combine. We'll be back. Mays. Every week after that. In Minnesota, someone came up to me and they were talking about the podcast stuff.

And they said that in Minnesota, they tweeted at you. And they were like, let's hang out. And you didn't tweet at them. And then they were very angry about it. That happened. Here's the thing. You know how many times that happened in Minnesota because the people in Minnesota are so nice. I know.

That was the thing. It was funny. I went to Philadelphia and people knew I was there. No one reached out. In Minneapolis, the reason I say that is because people in Annapolis do that too. They're great. I mean, the Midwest is a wonderful place. I don't think I need to, you know, make my feelings known about that.

But yeah, man, the off-season's over. We're back. And it's good to be back. And as always, thanks for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.