The Ringer NFL Show - The NFL's Most Trustworthy Defenses, With Mina Kimes!

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Sheil and Mina Kimes from ESPN get together to share, debate, and analyze who they think are the top defensive squads around the NFL. (00:00) The NFL’s most trustworthy defenses(1:35) Seattle Seahawks(9:42) Philadelphia Eagles(14:33) Houston Texans(17:58) Denver Broncos(26:12) The Hurry Up: Texans vs. Bills The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Mina KimesProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera Givens and Brian WatersProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Shield Capadia. Today we are talking about the most trustworthy defenses in the NFL. If you had to win a playoff game right now against a good quarterback, against a good play caller, which defense would you want and why? We each chose three. And by each, I mean me and our guest, ESPNs, Mena Kimes, the perfect person to have this discussion with.

Did we pick the same teams? Did we pick different teams? which teams did we have the hardest time leaving off. We talked about all of it. Let's take a break. We'll come right back and talk about the most trustworthy defenses with Mina. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul, the best place to bet the NFL all season long.

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All right, we are back here with Nina Kimes talking most trustworthy defenses. We each pick three. We kept it a secret. We didn't tell each other beforehand. So let's go through them. Mina, you're the guest. So let's get started. Number one, the most trustworthy defense. Oh, man. Okay, I have to go one. Okay, we didn't talk about whether we, okay, that's fine. I can do this. I also want to say, I want to preface this. You killed me with three. Because my feeling was I had a clear top six and then four was I felt very good about. I'm sure you had similar about. Yeah. But going Going from four to three was agonizing. And I went.

I changed it multiple times. Here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that like the last two we were choosing between you choose one, I choose one, everyone's happy, everyone gets represented. Okay. Everybody will definitely not be happy. And you know what's also two of the four have like very vocal and intense fan bases. Okay.

That's no one cares. We'll rank those at the end. All right. The other thing I'd like to preface, sorry, I know this is really annoying. to say, anyone who knows me knows I am not a homer when it comes to talking about the team. I have at number one. In fact, I have been wrong about their offense and critical of a lot of things that they do. But the defense of the Seattle Z-Hawks is not one of those things that I have been critical of. And they have not only been as impressive as I thought they would be coming into

this season, they have gone above and beyond my expectations. Sheal, I would argue that that their performance this week against Matthew Stafford, the Rams offense looking unbelievable, like unstoppable before, was the single most impressive defensive performance of the entire NFL season, and they lost. So the Seattle Seahawks are my pick for number one. I like it. I have them at number two,

so I will reveal my number one after. But I think they have to be on any list of the top three. The way they're playing right now, the different things they can do. Yeah, I rewatch that earlier today, and it was like, man, the Rams could not do anything. What did you find? Like, what was to you the most impressive part about that performance?

I loved that they didn't panic after the first Rams drive. Because all week long, us NFL nerds had been talking about the Rams or the 13 personnel and the Seahawks match it with nickel and dime and will the Rams run on them. And they did at the beginning of the game. And you're watching that and you're thinking like, oh, no, like. And I think other. coaches might have panicked and put linebackers on the field. And Mike McDonald stuck to their identity. They tightened up and basically blanked them from that point on outside of, you know,

giving up some touchdowns in horrible field position. And I just think, I love that they know that they have an identity and they do a lot of different things out of it, particularly with pressure. But I love that they didn't panic. I love that they stuck to what they do. And I thought that was really impressive. Yeah, that was the story last week. How are, you know, this, the 13 person How are they going to match it? Greg Olson, you know, guy, he must have been just so anxious before the game. He was talking about it so much during the week and then did a great job during the broadcast. But, yeah, I was looking at that. And to back up what you said, I mean, statistically, I think there is reason to believe that absolutely was one of the best defensive performances of the season.

I was looking at it was the Rams' worst success rate in any game in the last two seasons. that game. And it's like, you know, that's not the major talking point because of what happened on the other side of the ball, but it's good that we're bringing it up now because I just feel like I have a trust in Mike McDonald that like if he's going up against a great quarterback, a great play caller, a great schemer. And you can kind of tell with the way like those guys talk about Mike McDonald that they're like, oh man, you know, we kind of met our match with this guy that he's just going to be up for it, that he's going to be able to come up with a game plan. And, you know, they like to play a certain way. I think that there's a theme.

with a lot of these teams maybe that we'll talk about where it's like they don't necessarily want to blitz. They don't necessarily want to play man coverage, at least a few of the teams I have at the top. But in that game, they blitzed Matthew Stafford 46% of the time. McDonald's highest rate in any game as the Seahawks coach. So I love that too, where it's like, well,

if we do what we always do, are they going to have answers? Can we come up with a wrinkle without losing our identity? So it's like all those little ingredients I look for in a great defense, I feel like they've got it. They were blitzing on early downs, and I think McVeigh was, they were surprised by it because to your point,

like there's, it's like that blend of like sticking to your players and your identity, but changing the way you use them. The way they design, Mike McDonald designs pressure, I think is fascinating. He,

it is, it's like watching an offensive play caller in terms of him, like the, it's like McVeigh and the illusion of complexity and like he's just so good at finding and hunting matchups on offensive lines. It's usually a,

four-man rush, but they're always like, this time Leonard Williams is at a wide nine, and this time they're overloading one side, and ooh, here comes Byron Murphy. And it's just, it's also like a testament to, we talk about this on iPod, like, would you rather have one truly elite pass rusher or a bunch of awesome guys? And because that's what Seattle is, right? Like, they got a lot of really good guys. And I think Leonard Williams is like actually above more and better than that. But, and Murphy has been to us. But yeah, I think you'd rather have the depths that they have. I mean, the Eagles can speak to that certainly over the last, you know, in recent history.

I think I'm with that too. I think in the past, you know, get me the one guy that you have to game plan for. And certainly there's a case for that when you watch a guy like Miles Garrett. But yeah, they've got six players with at least 20 pressures, which I didn't go as far as to say, does any other team have that? I don't think any

other team has that this year. They're just so deep. They've got talented guys on the back end. The only reason, and I'll get to my one in a second, I had them second instead of first, is just I do have some questions just like corner. Is it definitely going to hold up there? Which is, again, there are other teams where you can save the same thing.

But do you feel good enough about them in the secondary or where they'll be in the secondary that they can be number one throughout the season? I do. I mean, again, they just went against the Rams, right? And those receivers. So I think Josh Job has quietly been really good for them this year. Wollen, as much grief as he gets, has actually played good football. and the safeties. I mean, Okada, he had one mistackle.

It was kind of brutal in this last game. But I think at some point they're getting Julian Love back. I haven't checked in. I know it's not a season-ender for him, and that will certainly help. But they're pretty deep back there. And it is similar, again, I mean, outside of Witherspoon, who, you know,

is probably their best corner. It's like, it's a lot of really good guys. They don't have a certain, but they just have gotten. And they all, they're fundamentally really sound. And that's the goal is going to, back as the Mike McDonald aspect, right? What did we see in Baltimore? Oh, you know, second half of the season,

they took a leap. And then the next year, they were the best defense in the NFL. It's just crazy to watch that play out again in the exact same way in Seattle. And man, that guy, he's got the goods. That's all said. There's got to be something with the way he teaches stuff

because just the amount of different things they can do, the different coverages they can play, the way they can change it up. And like you said, it looks like everyone knows what they're doing. Sometimes I feel like that's the easiest way judge of defense. Just like watch them. And is there a lot of like, you know, palms up after a big play or is it like, all right, you got us there. But we're getting back in the huddle and we know

what we're doing. And for them, it just feels like most of the time everyone knows what they're doing. So all right, we both got the Seahawks at two. All right. Now it's my turn to just copy exactly what Mina says. Now you're going to do the Eagles. Everyone, everyone who listens to this knows I'm not a home. I will rip the Eagles offense. I will rip the coaching staff when I need to. I will not pick them every week. Maybe it's recency bias. Mina can call me out if she thinks I am being a homer. But I've got the Eagles at number one.

Now, I legitimately think if I had to pick a defense this weekend to win a game for me, I would pick the Eagles. And I think the thing that gave them the edge, and again, it was razor thin comparing some of these teams. But I do like how battle tested they've been. They've faced the hardest schedule or second hardest schedule of opposing offenses. Chiefs, Packers, Lions, Rams, Bucks, Cowboys. Like, you go through the top 10 offenses,

and they've had above-average defensive performances in five of those games. And we've seen what they've done the last two weeks against the Packers and the Lions. So I've got the Eagles. I think their defense has been transformed by the Jalen Phillips trade, which I know you've talked about. Nicopi Dean coming back from injury,

where it was like, is he even going to play this year? And now he's so impactful. Jalen Carter being healthy, he was getting moved a lot early in the season where you're like, ooh, that doesn't look right and now he looks great. And then I say the fourth thing

is just Quinion Mitchell has just, he was already great, but he has like really leveled up. I think he's playing at an all pro level. So am I a Homer? Do you have them in the top three? What do you think? I had them three.

Okay. Yeah. So, and the other guy, Jordan Davis is having like such an unbelievable season too. I think like maybe gets a little slept on in that group. Well, I guess,

I saw he was the NFC defensive player in the week, so it's not being slept on. The reason why I don't have the Eagles one or two is I think that they have such an obvious weakness. Yeah. And we're going to learn a lot this weekend because they have George Pickens and C.D. Lamb coming to town. And when the Cowboys played them week one, they had Pickens and Lamb aligned mostly wide. I guess I should say what the weakness is. Eagles fans know. It's obviously the third cornerback, Dory Jackson. and, you know, I thought he played really well against Detroit, but I'm also, that one, like, I think had a lot to do with just Jared Gough

completely, you know, emulating. So, you know, I think my issue with them and not is just, you know, okay, can defenses that have two really good receivers take advantage of that? And, or offenses, not defenses for me. And I think we're going to learn out from the Dallas Cowboys, right? because they seem equipped to do so. Even last week against the Lions, I thought watching the film back,

it was like they had opportunities to complete passes where it was, I think the Eagles are different than last year, where last year I really felt like the coverage was aiding the pass rush in a big way until you got to the Super Bowl. Then that was a one game, different sample. But for most of the season,

that's kind of what was happening. And this year, it's the opposite. You know, I can just picture them having a meeting inside the building at the trade deadline. Like, we could get this corner who's okay, or we could get Jalen Phillips. And Vic Fangio's like, all right, just get me Jailen Phillips. I'll figure it out with the Dory Jackson.

I'll put the safety over the top. We'll play coverages in a certain way. But you're right. I mean, it's entirely possible that Sunday night we're like, oh, man, you know, they kind of got exposed there. And there's only so much you can do. It does come down to one-on-one matchups. And Adory Jackson, if you face a team with two great wide receivers,

certainly could have some issues there. So I do think we'll learn a lot about this Eagles defense on Sunday meeting what we should have done. All right, next time we share our picks before, and I then could have gone Seahawks. You could have gone Eagles. We could have been covered and then we don't look like homers. I know.

You also, dirty trick making me go first too, because... Yeah, that's true. I act like it's polite, but it's just, it's for the content here. All right, let's take a break. We come back. So we both have two of the same top three. Now's where it gets tricky. There are two teams.

There's two teams. I couldn't decide. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll see where we landed. The Ringer NFL show is brought to you by Fandul. Thursday night football continues to deliver, and Fanduels keeping the energy up

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Prize pool to be split equally among all eligible participants who made the correct first or last TD pick. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expired 21 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit R. dash help.com. Call 1 888-78-9-7-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. So Mina's got Seahawks one, Eagles 3.

I've got Eagles 1, Seahawks 2. Who is your second most trustworthy defense, Mina? I went with the Houston, Texas, and I went back and forth between them and the obvious team. Denver Broncos. And I, going into this season, had the Broncos as my number one defense in football. And they're absolutely capable of being the number one. And this is coming off of like a brilliant game plan against Patrick Mahal. I'm making this more about the

Broncos and the Texas. These four are all so neck and neck to me. Yeah. Top tier. I think. Yeah. I don't think any of them are separated from the other. Like they are all right there. I, like the Seahawks are not significantly better than the Texans and the Eagles and the Broncos. Let me talk about the Texans, though.

I think for me it's just the talent. I can't, first of all, I think they're really well coached. D'Amico Ryan's is really, really, really good. All these four have really good defensive coaches. Vance Joseph's been awesome, too. But I just can't get over that pass rush and those two pass rushers and Will I was a junior and Dina Hunter. And then the secondary,

too. Like I, you know, we talk about, like, there's not weaknesses. Like I'm, you know, I was talking about Philadelphia. There's an obvious one. And we can talk about Denver. Maybe Denver's your number two. We'll see. But I just don't. Maybe linebacker, maybe. They're just so good and so stacked. And this is reflected. I mean, and they are third and DVOA first against the past this year. they're doing all this despite very up and down offensive performances. Yeah, I just, when you watch them on tape, Sheel, I mean, they play out of their minds. They fly to the football. They're relentless in the past rush.

They're just so talented. That's the big thing. And it's been the case for two years where you just watch them and you're like, they are old school. Like we want to inflict pain on the opponent on every single play. Now, sometimes that gets certain players on their defense into trouble. But overall, that is a good defense. identity to have.

So, all right, we're going to get killed by Broncos fans. Because I got the Texans in the top three as well. I mean, it really did come down to me. You know, the pass rush, like you mentioned, you have Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter, like two of what, the top eight, top 10 pass rushers in the NFL this year. And then the way they cover, like I do think you can make the case that just with Stingley and Lasseter

and the way they're coach, I think that gives them an edge on almost any of, And they're battle tested. Actually, this was really the tiebreaker to me. And you're right. Vance Joseph has done an awesome job this year. He did a very good job on Sunday against the chiefs in those high leverage spots. D'emiko Ryan's resume is just longer against great quarterbacks and great offenses.

He's done it in playoff games. He's done it against Josh Allen and other quarterbacks last year where I feel like they're not going to level down when the competition is better. And so I've just seen more of that with the Texans and with Domeko Ryan. So that's really what for me gave them the slight edge over the Broncos. I think, too, the Broncos secondary is good. Macmillan's been awesome. Barron and spots, obviously Sir Tam when he plays is maybe the best quarterback in the NFL. But, you know, I'm not like a Riley Moss hater by any means.

I'm so divisive, by the way, in Broncos world. but and I think he's better than significantly he certainly better than Adory Jackson but you know what to do when you play this like right like it's and as much as improved as the linebackers are and they really have improved there have been games where you can see teams

take advantage of that so you know I think about this a lot just from like okay when I'm playing these events is what's the plan what are you attacking Philly I know what it is Denver I can come up with stuff for me it was Seattle and Houston I was like I don't know like I'm really not sure what to do here

and so I think that's ultimately but like I said neck and neck top four very very close the other thing with the Broncos I would say is just if you look at kind of who they've played and I don't want to be and played anybody type thing they just beat the Chiefs I get it and they played really

well against the Chiefs just statistically I was like sorting by above average performances just by like EPA per drive and they're above average performances have come against the Jets, Raiders, Titans, Bengals, Texans, and Eagles. Even that Chiefs game actually didn't qualify for it, where if you look at it, you're like, all right, the Chiefs got what, inside their 25, what was it, five times? They settle for field goals twice.

They have a turnover there. That's not taking anything away from Denver. You need to win those high leverage downs when you're facing a quarterback like Patrick Mahomes. But I just looked at it. You know, the Colts had a pretty good game against them. Giants had a good game. So it doesn't mean they stink or I don't believe in them. But just as sort of the tiebreaker, I was like, all right, great quarterback this weekend.

Like, I have to pick. Who am I picking? That also gave them a little bit of the edge for me. Yeah. I had a top six. Okay. Yeah. So this is the portion of which fan bases will be most upset.

I don't think any. The Broncos would be the maddest. I don't think anyone else deserves to be mad at us for our top three. I think the Broncos fans can make a case. But otherwise, I don't think so. But there were two teams. I do think there's a clear top six right now. And the other two teams I had are the Lions and the Rams.

No Browns in there. I had the Browns in there as well. Not good enough? Only at home? No, I just, I mean, they are the case for having the one dude. And they've gotten good performances out of a lot of other players, too, and the rookies look good. But I just, if I'm an offensive play caller,

I think there's ways to attack them and to mitigate the garret of factor. The Rams, I mean, statistically, who, what a leap. And that pass rush, they're really well coached. I think Shula has proven to be an exceptional game planner. And then same with the Lions. You know, we talk constantly about Kelvin Shepard, how impressive he's been. But like the Lions are a team with the, I think the defense is better in the offense right now.

And they're really, really impressive to me. I think you could easily make the case that, the Lions are the best defensive coaching job in the NFL this year. Yeah. When you look at, I mean, teams normally just cannot withstand those number of injuries at the same position at corner. If you have them in one spot, and they are anything you look at statistically, 9th in EPA per drive, fourth in success rate, fifth in DVOA, it's not like just this fluky. They're getting turnovers type thing.

I have been really, really impressed by Kelvin Shepard. And when some of those corners come back, that's why I'm still pretty bullish. on the Lions because, you know, once December comes around, if they get healthier, I think they can be really, really good. And the Rams are the other one. You mentioned, it's kind of like you look at them something. In DVOA, ahead of the guys we've been talking about. Ahead of them.

And I keep waiting to be like these corners, one of these weeks, they're going to give up 400. And it just hasn't happened yet. I mean, I don't know how. Like, how do you explain it? Because I think we all looked at the same thing. Do you think those guys are playing better than we expected? Do you think they're being put in positions to succeed?

Because that's right. You look at the depth chart and you're just like, all due respect to the corners, you're like, that doesn't have the look of a corner room that can be a top three defense. Yeah. You know, they're playing well.

I mean, Forbes is one of the great first round reclamation projects. But I do think they are a little getable. And I do, I'm also, you know, the run defense is very good. We just talked about this with the match. with Tampa. Seattle couldn't run on their dime, but Seattle can't run on anyone consistently. I do wonder if like a really good run team maybe in the playoffs could give them some trouble for playing the way they are, which is so focused on stopping the past. But like you said it, I mean, just the coaching job is incredible to me with them. And pass rush is as good as anyone's

Raiden Fisk is so good for them. We talk about Byron Young. Like, talk so much about verse and like the whole defensive line is kicking ass right now. So yeah. They're a tough out. They have a good case for it, but I have them outside the top four. Okay. You said it's six, right? So is there a team that you haven't mentioned? Detroit and LA or the fifth and six.

Because the top, well, so top, yeah, so top four. Oh, I got you. We said the Broncos. Yeah, I can't count, you know, give me a break. Yeah. By the way, I'm looking at DVOA and like, how is Pittsburgh at 10? Holy crap. That seems weird.

That's, yeah. You know what, though? Yeah. Oh, just sorry. You know, I was like, there's a clear top six. There's a clear top six, maybe seven with Cleveland. And then there's a lot of mid right now. Different tier.

Yeah. Those things could flip week to week here. All right. Those are our most trustworthy defenses right now. Maybe we change our mind later. Maybe we don't know. I got to finish with one more thing here off topic because we had Billy Gill on yesterday, your friend or acquaintance.

And I was previously in my life a Big J. Jerno. So I got to get both sides to every story and listeners to the podcast. heard Billy Gill tell the story of how you communicated a message to him, say hello to Zach Lowe for me. And he was very conflicted by this. He doesn't know Zach Lowe very well. He said, it would sound like I'm name dropping, like I'm big timing. And so I'm just communicating the message that he, in fact, did not say hello to Zach Lowe for you.

And I honestly, I have to come clean. I thought it was an okay move because I understand where he's coming from. Are you, where are you, look disgusted. That's a great inn. They'd be like, hey, Mina says, wanted me to say hi. I told her she was doing this with you. What the heck? That's how, that's the number one way by the, you know this as a journalist.

The number one way you talk to people you don't know well is you reference a person. And how many times have you gone up to a coach and been like, man, I love this guy from your past. And I told him we were talking. He said to say hi. It's like the easiest. So you were doing it to help him. Yeah. Oh, okay.

See, that's where it got low. We should. He just thought it was a bit of a burden. You know, like he has to do that. Listen, now, I don't quote me. I don't know that that was his exact words. But I told him, Mina's coming on the pod later this week. I'll communicate to her that you did not do it.

But I think now that we know, you were trying to help him out. He's in a new job. Say hello. It's a little in conversation. Zach's like, oh, Mina. And then everyone's happy. He didn't get that. And to be frank, I missed it too when we had the conversation.

So I apologize. It's trying to be helpful. Just trying to help one man connect with another man. There you go. She's just trying to help. She helped today. We talked about the most trustworthy defense is in the NFL. Mena Kimes.

Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you guys for listening. You can check out the Mina Kimes show featuring Lenny. We preview all the games. And Broncos fans, if you're angry, you can tweet at me at at Benjamin Solek anytime to express your disapproval. I love it. Thanks to Mina Kimes.

I will be right back with the hurry. The hurry up is presented by State Farm. Don't settle for just any insurance when they're State Farm. We got a game Thursday night. Bills at Texans. I think this is a really interesting spot for Houston. So C.J. Stroud is still out. Remains in the concussion protocol.

Davis Mills gets the start once again. But this Texans team, they've clawed their way back to 500 after a very rocky start. You still don't totally trust them, but they can afford to lose what? Two games probably between now and the. the end of the season and still get in the playoffs. So defense is excellent. We talked about that earlier with Mina. I think you look at this defense.

You don't really have a lot of questions. They can cover. They can rush the passer. They're well coached. They're physical. They check off every box. The offense, there's really not a lot of reason to trust the offense, but this Buffalo defense has looked vulnerable.

So I think the Texas have a chance here. They're five and a half point underdogs. It's not a huge number when you consider they're starting a back up quarterback. Remember, last year, D'emico Ryan's kind of put Josh Allen in a blender when these two teams faced. I mean, Josh Allen was nine for 30 for 131

yards in that game. Texans still have a lot of the same pieces on defense, and that was one of Josh Allen's worst games in recent memory. So, Texans can pull the upset. If the Colts lose to the Chiefs on Sunday, I know it's a lot of ifs, but Houston would only be two games out of

first place. And those two teams, the Texans and the Colts, They still play each other twice this season. So big spot for the Houston Texans in terms of saving their season. They're without Stroud. But again, that Buffalo defense has been vulnerable. So we'll see what the Texans can do in this spot. Sneaky fun matchup, I think.

Texans versus Bills. All right, the hurry up was presented by State Farm. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team on the football field. Shouldn't it be the same for your insurance. So don't settle for just any insurance when their State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Appreciate everyone listening. Thank you to the great Mina Kimes.

Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing Kiera Givens on social and additional production supervision by Connor and Evans and Arjuna Romgo-Paul. We'll be back tomorrow on the Ringer NFL show. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HELP.com. Call 1-888-78-9-7-7-7-7.

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