The Ringer NFL Show - The Not-So-Super Bowl | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 396)

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

Bill Belichick and Tom Brady do it again, while Sean McVay and Jared Goff struggle every step of the way. What does this game tell us about the legacy of the Patriots and the future of the Rams? Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. With the Super Bowl and the books, I wanted to let you know about all of our coverage across the site. We have Kevin Clark, Robert Mays, Roger Sherman, and more breaking down every aspect of the game, including winners and winners and losers' players from the game, and the winners and share winners from our channel and the half-time show performance. Also, make sure to check out our YouTube.com slash The Ringer. To the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. How you doing, buddy? Tough night for Matt Patricia. Tough night for everybody. Tough night for everybody? Goodness gracious.

Everyone that's not named Bill Belichick, it seems like a tough night. I have some information for you. In 10 years, the Patriots are not going to care. This game was born. No, no one's going to care. Well, I mean, let's be clear. They don't care right now. They'll take it.

But I'm saying no one will care. No one's going to care. In 10 years, they're just going to add another one. And let's just, you know, let's, let's, and the Patriots play the odds better than anybody, maybe in the history of sports. If you play nine Super Bowls, you have eight epics. At some point, you're going to have a clunker, and this was the clunker. By the way, the clunker, the definition of the clunker here is limiting the most innovative head coach in football at this point to zero touchdowns and three points.

So this is a very narrow definition. We've been spoiled by a very strange offensive season, most touchdowns in history. And now Bill Belichick is Sean McVeigh's. dad. He stole Sean McVeigh's lunch money in this game. It was incredible. He's his dad. Sean McVeigh is Bill Belichick's large adult son. I, it's still, I'm still having trouble processing it. We were sitting here. It's 2.17 a.m. Eastern time. The game ended a few hours ago, and I still haven't wrapped my mind around what Bill Belichick accomplished tonight. It's staggering. I will say, before we get into the nitty gritty on this, I do want to say we're

going to forget Wade Phillips performance. Oh, he was amazing. Yeah, it's let's not forget it. However, let's not spend too much on White Phillips because Bill Belichick won the Super Bowl. We had arguably the two best defensive game planners of all time coaching against each other tonight. And Bill Belichick just happens to be the better one. I will say this. I think that we're going to reclaim this in five or six years, like sort of a hipster tape grinder like genre game, where we're going to talk about this game in a way we don't talk about a Super Bowl.

because the defensive schemes were so great and so cool and so unpredictable. So I think that in like, I think in a few years we're going to talk about this game, maybe more than we think, maybe more than some of the other bad Super Bowls. I mean, some of the really bad Super Bowl stuff like Baltimore versus, uh, ball versus Giants, uh, you know, I think Denver, Carolina, those just fade in history. I don't necessarily say it happening on this one because the schemes were so good. Well, it's, I think the reason this one, this one won't fade into history is that it's a

kind of a jewel in like the Belichick dynasty. It's the jewel in his legacy. We're going to look back on this in the same way that we look back on the 2001 game, not with the narrative, but just how it fits into what has made him great. What he did tonight, we can start getting into it if you want to. I feel like that's the place to start.

Yeah. What McVeigh does so well and what is McVeigh, what has made McVeigh great is that McVeigh has such a solid understanding of how defensive rules work. and his entire offense is designed to take advantage of specific roles and specific jobs of defensive players. What Belichick did was he said, everything we put on tape about how our defense works, you can forget that because we're not doing that tonight.

So that stuff that they do so well, the Rams, they weren't able to do it because they weren't seeing the stuff that the Patriots had done all year. There was no way to know the rules because the Patriots were doing things that they'd never shown. So how could you possibly know them? I mean, the whole thing was quite incredible. But let's start big picture. Like you said, they played more zone than the Rams even anticipated,

you know, in their wildest dreams. I mean, like eight out of every 10 plays, it seemed like. And that was just not something Andrew Woodworth said it, a couple of other Rams said it. McVeigh said it.

McVeigh said it. McVeigh, by the way, to his credit, said he got out coach. Oh, he said he got, he was very open about getting his ass kicked tonight. There's not a hell of a lie you can say about them.

No. I think that there's there's a couple of things to unpack in this specific matchup. Number one, you know, you talk about the crown jewel part of it. And I totally agree. I just think that this just reinforced everything we knew about them. You know, Roger Sherman and I had a debated an aquarium the other day for a video. And we had it and we're doing it. And we're doing a bit on just a little mini debate on who the greatest coach of all time is.

and Roger earnestly said he thinks that one of the points against Bill Belichick is that someone like Bill Walsh had something that he invented and that spread and that sort of was very simple and then was a system that was then implemented in all of the place. And that is true. And I would say there's certain other innovations that cover two is one of them where it was invented and then, you know, half the league was running. You know, Jed Fish other day said that Pete Carroll is an innovator. we don't think about enough because he said there's seven or eight teams right now running the

Seattle defense and most of them are in the top 10. Belichick doesn't have that specific schematic legacy. That's why he's great. No, but here's, but here's this, yes, and that's what I'm getting at. The only thing he's invented is himself and the Patriots and he does it every week. And he doesn't have a, you know, a thing to replicate because there's nothing there. He's like, his team is Kaiser Soze. I mean, like they just, they build,

they're there and then they're not. They're not, the greatest trick Bill Belichick ever pulled is that he, is that he ever had a scheme. He just creates something new every single week. And so we just saw a new Patriots team played zone. And I, you know,

was Julian Edelman. Oh, sure. They played six on the line. Yes. But I'm just saying that I, I just don't understand, and we've talked of this a lot,

but I don't understand how you can look at the Patriots. If you hate the Patriots because you're a Jets fan or whatever, that's fine. If you hate the Patriots because you think they cheat and you're like super in a sportsmanship, whatever, that's your own deal. But if you're bored by the Patriots, that's on you. Yeah. They are. I'm with you. Amazing.

Yeah. And so that, tonight was so fascinating on so many levels. And you're right. It's because they can just kind of put on whatever outfit they want schematically at any point. Whatever the game calls for they can do. And they've done that over the years. Yeah. But this game is so interesting.

because it's that, but it's also stuff we've seen forever. They ran a Hoss Wai Juke three times on the same drive, including that huge play to Grankowski. That play has been in the Patriots playbook since like 2000. It's the same play. We've seen Fernandez run that. We've seen Welker run that. It's just like all the same stuff is still there.

It's for me, it's not even just that they haven't invented things that maintain. It's just that they can be whatever they want in any moment. And sometimes that's going back to stuff they've used. for the past two decades, sometimes it's doing stuff we've never seen them do before. Any single choice

schematically and otherwise is on the table for them and it's just why they're able to handle any scenario. They can just do anything, dude. It's amazing. It's remarkable. I'm still just like blown away by it.

It was a boring game, but just kind of sitting back and considering the totality of what he just did. I just hit me. I was kind of joking about the kinds of stuff. They're actually like,

you know how Dana-D-Lewis gets so into every role that he just becomes it. Like now he's like a dressmaker or something. Like the Patriots decided they were his own team and then they just became the best zone team. Yes. Daniel DeLewis and the Patriots are one and the same. Mark it down guys.

We did it. And what that did is it just golf had no early options. I mean that sucked. I don't mean to put it so clearly, but like, man, golf. He was really bad in that game. And it's one of those things where Jerry Goff is not an anticipation thrower. needs windows to throw the ball. He needs guys to be open.

He doesn't throw guys open. He sees guys open and throws them the ball. When they were playing so much zone and just flooding the back end of the defense, that stuff wasn't coming open. And that was a problem because he's not going to succeed in that scenario. The Cook's missed touchdown. That happens because he's not diagnosing plays quickly. If that had happened instantaneously, that's a score.

But it doesn't. Everything was half a second, one second later than it should have been. And that was the issue of the entire game. I mean, he and Gough, I mean, he and McVeigh just, they were bad. There's no way around it. They were bad tonight. But I don't think this is a referendum on McVeigh and golf in general. I think this is just Belichick's.

I want to get into that. You know, Jeff Schwartz made the point on Twitter, which of that was correct, which is McVeigh didn't have anything new. You got to have new shit, you know? It's a Super Bowl. And you know Belichick's going to have something. Yeah. And my curiosity is whether or not what McVeigh learns from this.

Is this going to be the lead anecdote in a Robert Mays or Greg Bishop or South Irkisham profile in five years where he's won his second Super Bowl and he's saying, you know, right now, it's 225 right now. Is he at the Buckhead Marriott or whatever the hell, whatever damn Buckhead Hotel they're in? They're at the Buckhead Marriott. I think they were staying across the street. Oh, no, they're across the street. Yeah, at some other hotel.

Yeah. The W, I think? I don't know. Whatever. And is he right? Is he building something right now? I think the answer is probably yes. And that determines it.

Because what I find fascinating is all of the teams that the Patriots have played in this mini run, whether that's Seattle, whether that's Atlanta, whether that's Philadelphia last year, none of them have come back. No. And it's really hard to win. And it teaches you a lot about the fact the Patriots make it every year and those teams don't. I mean, the fact that Seattle hasn't come. If you were to tell, if you were to say Seattle was not coming back, you'd be shocked.

If you were to know that the Eagles were the 60th this year, you'd be shocked on this night. And so it's really hard to sit here and say the Rams won't be back in contention next year, but also it's really freaking hard to get back to this. And so I think this is an inflection point in the Rams franchise, whether or not McVeigh can win these sorts of games going forward against just an elite, elite defensive play guard. There's only one Bill Belichick. Did you see what Steve Harvey said the other day?

No. Okay, this is a strange thing. I definitely did not see what Steve Harvey said. So Steve Harvey hosted the NFL honors. I only saw his clip, and I actually wrote this in the piece, but he started out with saying, like, congratulations to, or the reason we're all here tonight is Tom Brady. And they show like Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes and all these guys.

And everyone's, like, puzzled. And he says, if it wasn't for Tom Brady, some of you will be playing in the Super Bowl tomorrow. Yeah. And not here. That's true. Every single year, that's what it is. The point I'm getting at is that there's only one,

Brady and Belichick and there's certain people in this league who just have to wait until they age out. Yes. I was thinking about it today. And the Rams, we'll get into the Rams in a second. I think what you said is correct. I think their timeline now becomes super interesting. But when we talk about going all in in the NFL right now, we talk about really going for it.

The team you're building is the team to beat the Patriots. That's what you're doing. Because every single championship in the 2011... But what does that look like? The Patriots don't exist. You know what I'm saying? It's not... That's not me.

it's not like a schematic team. It's just the quality of the team overall. You're chasing ghosts if you're trying to beat the Patriots. That's not what I mean. It's not about trying to find different weaknesses in their roster building. It's you're trying to build the best team possible to beat New England. It's the same way like what teams are doing with the Warriors right now in the NBA, right? You're not building something specifically to be the Warriors on a personnel basis.

You're building the best possible super team to compete with this one. Because every single team in the CBA era, in the modern CBA era, has had to beat the Patriots to win. the Super Bowl except the 2013 Seahawks. Dude, by the way, shout to Doug Peterson. Amazing. Amazing. What they did, and that's the thing, you have to be perfect to beat this team. And the Eagles were.

And the Rams wanted to do the same thing. The Rams tried to build this super team in order to have this perfect roster to beat New England and they couldn't do it. And now we're sitting there with these choices they made kind of despite their long-term future. And now they didn't get it. That makes it hurt even worse. knowing that you made these sorts of financial draft capital everything commitments and you

still didn't get there. We're looking at 35 million in cap space for the Rams. Dante Fowler, and Dama Kinsu, Marcus Joyner, and Roger Saffold are all free agents. Marcus Peters is coming, be coming up the next year. The golf thing looms. Well, the golf thing is just, I don't even know where you go with that one right now. But that's what I'm saying. We had this discussion like last week about how the Rams window is shorter than it seems.

And now it's even more glaring. But everybody's window is short. That's exactly right. Patriots whose windows last forever. It's a huge. The Patriots, everybody else is a very small window. And the Patriots live in one of those, you know how like in Black Mirror, every single home is just this huge glass panel?

Yes. That's their window. It's just like one huge glass house. But it's everyone's window is short, but it's more glaring and it hurts even more with the Rams just because they went so hard to do this. All right. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. Academy Award winning screenwriter and playwright Aaron Sorkin

was here on the Bill Simmons podcast last week, discussing his long career in great movies and shows, including the West Wing, the newsroom, and the social network. He has a new play on Broadway and adaptation of Harper Lee's Pulitzer Prize winning play to Kill a Mockingbird, which was recently voted America's best love novel of all time. To Kill a Mockingbird has become one of the most popular and toughest tickets to get on Broadway. It has set the record as the highest grossing American play in Broadway history. It has also been selected as a critics pick by the New York Times and has been called one of the greatest plays in history by NPR.

Two-time Emmy Award winner Jeff Daniels, Newsroom and Godless, stars live on stage as Atticus Finch. Brett Lang, a variety, called it one of the greatest stage successes of this or any Broadway season. It is not played to a single empty seat. And while To Kill a Mockingbird is sold out for the next seven, several months, tickets would make a fantastic Valentine's Day gift when purchased for available performances this summer or fall. Tickets are available directly through Telechards.com or the show's website, to kill a mockingbird Broadway.com. That's to kill a mockingbird Broadway.com. Today's show is sponsored by ADT. Real protection. When it comes to something as important as your

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first responders. No matter how you define safety for you, your family or your business, ADT is there. ADT, real protection. Visit ADT.com slash podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. Did you see the stat that the fastest run of the night was a Todd Gurley, Carrie? Yes. Let's talk about this. What the hell? What are we doing? I, so by the way, congratulations to Sean McPrey for finally for getting a football player. It's Todd Gurley. We're sitting there. And I asked him this and he didn't have a good answer.

Gurley or McVeigh? I said, was there anything specific they were doing that led you to believe you couldn't throw the ball to him? Because they blitzed on 50% of their downs. Yeah. We have arguably the best screen team in the league that's not the chiefs. How do you not throw one screen pass to Todd Gurley in this game? They're bringing five or six guys on half of their dropbacks.

it just makes no sense to what did he actually what was that it was just kind of you know they're doing certain stuff and you you don't want to get out of the rhythm of your play calling it was a non-answer i was really curious if there was a coverage they were playing or something they were doing to them where he thought we can't do this we can't use our screen game and we can't throw him the ball and i just it's strange man it was so odd because when you watch him run and when you hear everything that mcvay had to say i mean is he healthy i don't know It just feels so weird to watch that game and to not have him be a bigger part of the game plan. I understand they couldn't run the ball very well because the Rams were playing with six guys out front.

They were essentially daring you to run outside, which they did well a couple times. We barely saw any toss plays and we did not see any screens. McVeigh did such a good job over the last two years of finding ways to manufacture Todd Gurley touches. Even if you're running in the line of scrimmaging and getting 2.8 yards of carry, he did such a good. good job of getting the ball on his hands in order to let him feel himself in the open space in order to kind of get yourself going in these artificial ways. And we saw none of that tonight. The only running back through the ball to is C.J. Anderson. I never. He had two targets. I never think that I'm smarter than a coach, but I would not throw the ball to C.J. Anderson. I mean,

the one play worked. I mean, that one on the left flat where it was nearly picked and he got a around High Tower. The thing about, I feel like the Patriots game plan for the last two weeks, it's a little different, obviously, against the Chiefs and the Rams. But in this year,

where the world has become so offense-centric, and offenses have dictated this season, it was incredible to watch the Patriots say, consecutive games against the two best offenses in football, we are dictating the game to you.

We are not going to sit back and let you do whatever you want. We are going to blitz and stunt and just, It was such a proactive choice. And I think that's why it was so impressive. I want to bring up the other side of the ball real quick because I don't know if you saw this. Did you see that every single team, the Patriots played in the playoffs, had their lowest pressure rate of the season.

It's amazing. Against the Patriots in these playoffs. We knew if the Rams were going to have a chance that Donald and Sue in the past rush was going to have to control the game. Did Sue play in this game? He did nothing. He had that one play where he kind of just bullrushed cannon right back into Brady and knocked him over. That was it. No, not impressed.

Donald had one pressure. One. And there was, I think that the, I mean, the Rams secondary actually did a very good job in this game for the most part. I mean, again, Wade Phillips was fantastic. It's the same kind of thing. I mean, they were mixing up a lot of man in zone. Brady had no idea what was coming for most of the first half. And he just wasn't playing very well.

I mean, Brady, it wasn't like Brady. was lights out at all. No, but he was lights out on that touchdown drive. Did you see Julian Edelman? Do you see his separation today? It was unbelievable. 3.9. 3.9.

It was more than three yards. It was more than three yards per target. Yes. Which is outrageous because tight coverage is less than one yard. So if you're 1.1 yards away from the rec. It's not like a coverage. You're considered open. He was cooking guys when they run, man.

Just cooking them. He was fantastic tonight. The two throws Brady made, though. We got to stop this Hall of Fame thing, though. We got to stop it. I mean, it's so strange. Julie Adamann is one of the best playoff players ever. Why do we have to do that?

Why can't we just say we love Julian Edelman? He's great. He's an unbelievable playoff player. We don't have to put everyone in the Hall of Fame. I agree. We do have to put Rob Gronkowski in there, though. I mean, Rob Valkowski is maybe like the best. He is the best tight end ever.

But I mean, and Rob Gonskowski was huge tonight in the biggest moments. I mean, he had 29-yard. and won the game. Yeah. And those two throws from Brady on that drive. Somebody, I tweeted about it. And so it was like,

yeah, those were pretty average. They just looked really good because this game was like, wait, what? The catch? The last catch?

Both of Tom Brady's throws to gronk on that drive. They're fucking gorgeous. I'm, I'd be one that people who just delete all the social media. It would, they were beautiful throws. The throw,

and this is just, I mean, little tiny design stuff, but the play action one to gronk down the right sideline to start that drive. Yeah. It was just a little

hesitation. I believe on an ebucam maybe or somebody. Somebody was supposed to be covering him. He blocked him for just a second and then just kind of almost dipped like a pass rusher around. It was an amazing release and that ball just could not be a more perfect touch throw from Brady. And the one

down the seam, I'm still trying to figure out what Littleton was doing on that play because I saw him scrambling. Late to get to Gronk in the seam. I don't know if he was trying to disguise in the middle of the field or he just didn't know where he was supposed to be but he was really late getting there. And that's they needed. And then that's that,

it was the Hoss-wide juke play. They were running over and over again. It's just a tight end seam and Edelman when you have two split-high safeties, Edelman is supposed to take advantage of the mic just in the middle of the field. He can't cover Julian Edelman. And Littleton had to on a couple of those plays. They knew what was working and they kept

going to it. Going to the same thing over and over and over again is a sign of a really confident and really good coach. That's 100% true. And that's Josh McDaniels. Yep. And if I may drop a nugget here, a little nugget. I was talking to somebody

with the Chiefs and they were saying that one of the big things that happened over the past couple of years is Matt Nagy convinced Andy Reed to become more of a play repeater. Yeah. And Nagy's brought that to Chicago. But they think that's one of the things that really helped Andy's. Andy loved just

the big playbook, just this. That's how much they was too. To his death. And Nagy was like, why don't we, you know, this play just hasn't been stopped. Why don't we just keep running? until I stop it. And you think about somebody like Andy being helped by that. And then, you know, Josh Daniels has been doing that for a very long time.

And I think that it's the sign of someone who just wants to do what works. And I think that we saw that tonight. It's just, just keep going, buddy. The Patriots don't care how it gets done. They just don't give a shit. If it's the same play and over and over again, fine. If it's something different, every play, fine. They had so many quick throws into the flat today.

They aren't exciting plays. But it's like seven yards there. seven yards here. It just, they don't care. It also gets to, you know, how many times Belichie starts about like run back, run past balance? He doesn't care about any of this shit. He does not care.

He brought, I wasn't the stat that James Devlin played more snaps in the AFC champion than any fullback combined. No, it wasn't like the last like seven AFC championship. Oh, yeah. Like, literally like it was just ridiculous. And then you could think, well, maybe James Devlin's going to have a big game. No. no no yeah but they did i was so impressed at the end of that game obviously the offensive line played

fantastic period yeah they did a great job in the end of that game where they get the ball down there after the golf pick yeah and it's just like we're just gonna we're gonna milk this now we're gonna squeeze the life out of this game and just crushing dudes i mean they push that canon got on the double team that led to the really long michel run that late in the game those monsters. I mean, those guys are just, they really, really, really set the tone on that final drive. They were so impressive the entire season, but tonight

they brought it again. I was on Russell the other day and we talked about this. And it's not going to happen because he's 70 years old. If you're like Daniel Snyder, why are we not just giving Dante Scarnackia a blank check? He's the greatest position coach

in the street football. Let's sort this out. I don't know. Who else would it be? Greatest position coach in the history of football I'd have to think about that He has been a staple of the greatest dynasty In the sports entire existence for 20 years And he has a great

Kind of win the wins above replacement Because when he left Oh my God And the guy that replaced him Was the guy who was the offensive line coach for the Colts this year Who was fantastic Yeah So it's just

That's how good Dante Scarnacki is is that he was the drop-up between him and a guy who was arguably the second best offensive line coach in the league this year was massive. It's crazy. Like, the dude, there is no one that has ever coached offensive line like him,

I don't think. I just don't know who else it would possibly be. Just the results. The results constant. He reminds me in it's offensive line so it doesn't get the same buzz, but he reminds me of like Leo Mazzoni with the Atlanta Braves.

Yes. It's a great person. Where it's like, okay, they got Maddox and Smolts and these guys. But then it's just like, oh, we found some random guy we signed from the Reds. Oh, wait, sorry, he's an all-star now. That's like James Andrews.

Like, that's exactly what James... David Andrews. I'm sorry. James... But, you know, let's be clear. Dundas Crank could do amazing things. If he was the center, they'd be fine. Andrews had a couple of reach blocks today. I want to talk about David Andrews's the second, but go ahead. I mean, just they, on Sue, and it's just like,

this is an undrafted free agent. He's one of the, like, the better centers in the entire league now. I need to talk about David Andrews, because there was sort of a point of moment where I walked downstairs and I was with the Patriots and I have to be completely honest with you, it was not exciting.

Some of the players, I saw Nick Casario, I saw like Brett Bilema kind of just exhaled. Like it wasn't like, we did it. It was just kind of like, well, that's over.

Yeah. I was like, man, what is this vibe here? Yeah. And I went into the, where the players were talking and David Andrews was there. And this local columnist, I don't really know what he was getting at.

It was like, does this ever get old? And David Andrews, who's now won two, Super Bowl, has been the three, obviously. His answer, it was not like phony enthusiasm, wasn't anything. He was just like, no, that's the wrong word to use. And he was almost getting angry as he started to talk about it, just the idea. Well, I can understand that the amount of work that they put in. And he gave this, like, speech and wasn't on transcript, I don't think anybody recorded, I feel bad, I wrote it down.

But he was just like, this is the most amazing feeling in the world. You dream about this. It was basically saying, without saying it, that it's insulting for us to say that it gets old. It would never get old for those guys. And from that moment on, I was walking around. I was looking at people. And you just realized that these guys are just tired and they're beaten down. That's exactly right.

And I think when I was in the locker room after Arizona, the Arizona game, obviously against Seattle, the Malcolm Butler game, however you want to phrase that. And then in Houston when they play the Falcons, there was way more exuberance because there was just pure shock at both of those. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't know they were going to win. Right. Right. And so this game also, I think, sapped the energy from everyone.

And so you just don't, when I was with Andrews, you just sort of realized that these guys, even though it might seem like they didn't care, they really, really, really cared. And I think sometimes because it's a Patriots dynasty, because all these things run together, we forget the human. element of the Patriots in general. I'm with you on that. I feel the exact same way. I think that we do discount just the magnitude of what this means. Well, the problem is that there's 52 players who really, really care, genuinely care. And then Brady and Belichick won't stop talking about everybody counted them out.

Yeah. And so that's all anybody cares about. Belichick, everybody counted us out from beginning of season. What are you talking about, Bill? We love Bill Belichick more than any non-Patriots fans. Yes. Bill, you're on one, buddy. Bill's definitely on one.

You're back on your bullshit, Bill. Bill will never be canceled, though. Bill Belichick will always be here. The same, the human element of it, when I walked in the Rams locker room, and golf was just sitting there with Sean Mannion. He was sitting and had this kind of grayish green towel in his left hand. He was like laying on his face like this. He had it in his face.

His head was in his hand. And his arm was just covered in welts. I mean, just beat his shit. And he was just talking to. Sean Manning in this way where it was very animated and he did the same thing with John Sullivan right after. And he clearly is just talking to them about like, what about this play? It's just like, there's searching for answers. And I think both him and McVeigh tonight, they were just zombies.

They were ghosts. You could just see it in their faces. They were completely drained. And you don't know whether or not you're coming back. And I remember a couple of years ago talking to Rich Gannon for something. And he started going through, this is separate from when I talked to him two weeks ago, but he started going through all the mistakes

that the Raiders made in the first quarter. Like literally going through this, this, this. I think it was like 12 mental mistakes in the first 15 players or whatever. And you realized that after the game, that probably hurt. But then it probably really hurt

and really grew when he realized that that was it for him. And so when you see someone like golf, you don't know how tonight's going to, how he's going to feel about tonight. in 10 years. What other things did you see from him? That was really it. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think that he really was just, like, you feel like he got his soul torn out. I mean, he was really bummed. And he's the type of guy. And we talked about this with Dan Rolofsky on the pot

earlier this week. He's a very even keel dude. And I feel like he was really, really bummed tonight. And I mean, not, I mean, obviously you lost the Super Bowl, but I think that there was really something that got ripped from him. And I think McFeyer was the same way. That's just how it kind of came off to me. And then Andrew Whitworth told me that we're all going to die. Yeah. Tough look for everybody. So that's, I'm sure people have seen that.

I asked him, he was talking about, somebody asked him if he was going to come back next year. And I assumed the answer would have been absolutely. And he said that he didn't know. And that's a whole other thing about where this team will be going. But when I followed that up and I said, well, kind of with that in mind, does it make tonight even tougher to know that this may be your chance? and you may never be back.

Does it make it hurt even worse? He's like, I'm not, you know, I'm never going to be the one to pout. You know, it doesn't matter if you're in the Hall of Fame or you win 20 Super Bowls or whatever. It's like, this game is just this game. Like, we're all going to die somebody. And I was, I go, well, I did not expect that.

And I didn't expect to consider my own mortality after asking that question. But thank you very much, Andrew Whitworth. All right. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. Clean up your remote control clutter with Control Center by Cabo. Control Center simplifies your home theater

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I have a cavo where our maze has a cavo. We, our lives have changed. I used to have specifically about four or five remotes and I would never know where anything was. Sometimes I wouldn't even put on something I wanted to watch because I didn't want to find the remote associated. with it. That's all changed. It's awesome. I love it. I can't recommend enough. Shop now and get 40% off Control Center with promo code NFL. That's 5995. 40% off regular pricing of 99.95. Control center is available at CAAVo.com and Best Buy. Control Center by Kava, one remote that does it all. I have a question for you, Robert Mayas. If you had to guess who, which of these

teams is more likely to be back in the Super Bowl next year? Patriots. Okay. Why? Who? would, I don't know. Is there any question about that? I mean, you've been Mr. Rams at points this year. I think the Rams are an excellently built football team with a really good football coach. I also understand the realities of what's going to happen to their roster. The Rams built this team. I think that they can have one more year of this.

I agree. They can, but I'd still bet on the Patriots before I'd bet on the Rams. I think at all, I think a lot of the Patriots next year and the AFC comes down to what the chiefs were able to do with that defense. Yes. But the Rams, this is the best Rams team in terms of roster. Steve Spagnola,

tough hire. That's really not. Sure, what's going on there. I don't know what, I mean, I feel like you almost have to concede that this is the best Rams team in terms of roster talent that we will see.

I mean, how could it not be? You're not going to have Indomaconsu next year. You're not going to have Dante Fowler next year, most likely. You may not have Roger Saffold next year. These are high level starters, Marcus Joyner.

I mean, we went over the list before, But the Rams built their team in such a way that they've spent on a lot of these players. They've already paid golf or they already paid Gurley. They already played Donald. And those guys did not show up in a way tonight that is conducive or that is in line and kind of coordinates with how much money they make. I mean, this team is constructed.

It's kind of set in stone where it's going from here in terms of the core players. And because those core players are now getting paid, the margins are going to suffer. a little bit. And that's already going to be true next year. Yeah. I mean, that's part of if you're a Rams fan, that's part of the tragedy. That's the entire tragedy. That is why tonight hurts so badly. Well, okay, but here's the thing. I talked to people around the Rams this week about the specific thing. And their argument was, well, you can't really say we're not playing the long game, even though it's very, very different

because the crux of the Patriots is the coach and the quarterback. And if they believe they have that and they do believe that, then they think they have the recipe. Now, it just comes down to whether or not if Jared Goff, the number Kevin Demoff put it at in my story was $50 million in cap space over four years. That's what you were saving. So you have to make sure that if you're going to sign Jared Goff to one of those deals, he's worth $50 million in extra players,

basically over a four-year period. And right now that may not be true. And we've... I mean, right now, dude, like, come on. Yeah. And like now. And those $50 million worth of players were good players this year.

They were guys that got them here. And those are guys that probably will not be around on the team next year. And that's hard, that's a hard reality to face. It's hard to come terms with when you were one game away from winning the Super Bowl. I mean, not just one game. I mean, one broken tackle in the game like that, you're there.

I mean, if Brandon Cooks catches that ball on the end zone, I mean, if Daron Harmon. Jason McCordy, my man. Those guys, the secondary for the Patriots is phenomenal. Jason was over 1016 last year. I know. And now he's breaking up. Gilmore was unbelievable. I mean, that entire defense just played out of their minds.

High Tower was a monster. I mean, he had on back-to-back drives, he had plays that ruin the drive. He had the third down when the Rams had the ball, they were backed up. He just destroyed Marcus Can on this little hand move on the outside when he was playing defensive end. And the next play, the next drive, he has a drive-ending sack just beating Austin Blythe one-on-one with an inside move. It's like, this dude is a linebacker.

And he's just playing defensive end at every single one of these spots. That's why they're so hard to play against on defense because all. all the rushers are so similar, they can just kind of play any single one of those roles within that front. It just makes it so difficult to deal with. I'm still, my head's just spinning. I'm much like Sean McVeigh's probably is right now. I just need to say how funny it is that Josh McDaniels and Sean McVeigh, two, the youngest, most innovative

play callers went out there and it got owned by two of 70-year-olds. It was great. It was like space, it was like space cowboys. It was just like two old guys, just going out. after it for one last score. Space Cowboys. Tell me it's not like Space Cowboys. Big fan of Space Cowboys.

There's literally no difference between that game in Space Cowboys. The, who was Donald Sutherland like lied? Well, man, I'm never seen. This is like Final Destination where I just used the analogy. No, I've definitely seen Space Cowboys before. Great film. Yeah, that's definitely, it's an apt comparison.

Yeah, I just, there's a couple movies like that. I'm just like this is, I'm just going to use this analogy and never see the movie. Hi, buddy. Is there anything else you want to say about? No, I mean, it was an incredible week. Thank you to everybody who listened,

consumed, watched, read. All year. All year. You know, down here we had an incredible team, Richard Bozick, Jason Gallagher, Pat Mill Downey, Roger Sherman, Danny Kelly, you and I.

It was a heck of a team. We had a great time. I'm really proud of the work that we put out this week. I'm proud of the work we put out this season. I want to say thank you. Danny Kelly was still in the press box. Oh, shit.

He might be able to get my charger. There it is. He's still working. He's still grinding. I'm going to fly to Seattle and get my charger. The listener probably picked up on the fact that I left my charger at the stadium. Again, it's been a long week. All right, guys, again, thank you so much for listening to this show, to all the shows this

season. I'm sure we'll be back at some point here in the near future. But for now, that is a wrap on the Ringar NFL show for the 2000. 2018-19 NFL season. We're going to be back in like the Columbine like five days. Yeah, I know. But for now, that's all we got. Thanks, guys. Thank you.