The Ringer NFL Show - The Offensive Powerhouses Keep Rolling in the Divisional Round | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 383)

Episode Date: January 14, 2019

The conference championships are set. The Saints edged out the Eagles (6:30), the Patriots pasted the Chargers (17:00), the Rams handled the Cowboys (26:30), and the Chiefs outshined the Colts (33:30). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. True Detective is back and The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Jason Concepcion are our guides as we navigate the twisting pathways of season phase plots, themes, and characters on the flat circle, a true detective after show. Follow Jason and Chris as they chase down leads, explore each episode's cultural context, and discuss true crime cases that mirror the ones in the show. Join the guys live every Sunday night after True Detective on the ringer's YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook pages. The Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you do, bud? I'm doing okay.

I'm in Boston. I don't know what to do without Sunday night football. Like, I don't know what we're supposed to do. Like, typically we just watch Sunday Night Football and then we record a podcast. But now we record a podcast around the same time, but there's no Sunday Night Football. So we just have like four free hours. I'm watching golf. So we probably would have done it earlier, but I was at the Super Bowl.

Superdome today and I wanted to do some reporting afterward and getting out of that place was kind of a nightmare. But yeah, it is, what time is it? It's 9.50 central time. 10.50 Eastern? We just took in a very cold New England. Yeah, that was the nice part about coming to New Orleans is that I got to get out of the snow, which was wonderful. But we just watched the divisional round, which is my favorite weekend of football every single year. And it did not disappoint, man.

I think on a player level. Wait, what? There weren't, like, there weren't that many great games. Oh, to me, that's not what I'm talking about. Okay. There weren't close games, but on a football level, like in a nerd level, the, the displays that we saw from these really, really good coaches and the best players in the league were amazing. I mean, I did say two months ago, we all more or less conceded that there's Saints, the Rams,

and the chiefs and the Patriots are the best four teams. And they proved it 10 times over this weekend in like 20 different ways. Watching these guys go to work was really enjoyable, even if the games themselves weren't particularly exciting. So I have a couple of things to discuss here. So the first thing is that

top four scoring offenses at the NFL made the final four. A lot of people are saying, okay, this proves defenses don't matter, et cetera. What I think is important to remember is that last year at this time, the final four defenses were all top five in scoring defense. And I don't think necessarily that it means that the league has changed that much in a year and that we've gone from, okay, defense matters in 2018 to defense absolutely doesn't matter in 2019.

I think it speaks to how quickly things change now and how quickly, schematically, everything can develop to the point that literally the league can rewrite itself in the course of a year. Next year, something completely different might be the case, okay? but I just think it's really interesting when you look at that particular metric, how quickly things have changed. It just shows you how important adaptability is in the NFL

because, first of all, the Patriots been in the Final Four the last two years into completely different leagues. Yeah. I mean, they're the just, they, the march goes on with them. We'll talk about the Patriots in a second. But I want to talk about how this week informs

the choices we've seen over this weekend in the games. inform the choices that were made over the last five or six days. Because look at the teams that are still left. The chiefs, the Patriots, the Saints, and the Rams. Three of those teams have play-calling head coaches

and the Patriots are the Patriots. Here we go. And then think about two of the other teams that were left. The Colts and the Eagles. There is a reason teams are chasing this blueprint and it's because right now it's working. We have seen the same type of structure and the same type of just plan work in the NFL this season.

And that's what the last four teams have shown us and to the teams that lost this weekend. Like there is a reason teams are chasing this and it's because it's gotten results. Are we going to have that discussion right now? We're going to do the philosophical thing. If you want to, I mean, how can you watch what happened this weekend and not think that's what you should try to chase? I mean, I think a couple of things. I think that what we just touched on, which is that for this season,

the top four scoring offenses made it, that's going to lend itself to play calling offensive head coaches. That's that. Again, last year was a little bit different. I mean, I think that there are, we've done this a million times, but I just think that there are going to be huge successes this year and there's going to be huge disasters.

Again, someone is getting the seventh best offensive head coach who's currently an assistant. Zach Taylor is going to be a head coach. Yeah, well, the theory there, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's the Bengals. That might be something other than he was the best candidate.

That might be he decided he would agree to the bangles. Well, not just that, but Mike Brown is essentially, you know, has a huge say in personnel matter. I mean, it is a very unorthodox place. Sure. But I just think that we've shit on some of the decisions that were made in the last week in terms of head coach hires, but I understand why teams are going after that model. That's all I'll say, because we saw work over and over and over again this weekend.

I was so impressed by so many of these performances. Watching the Chiefs and the structure of those passing plays combined with Mahomes, watching the Patriots game plan today, the Saints had so many just gorgeous route combination constructions. And Sean McVeigh has created the greatest offense for a running back in the history of football. Amazing. I mean, it's what CJ Anderson did yesterday really makes you wonder what the Todd Gurley contract is going to look like in two years. I mean, maybe we just never understood that anyone could look good at that offense.

There's a couple of, I mean, first of all, you know, 538, a couple places have just discussed how much the boxes that Shawman Faye creates for Todd Gurley have an impact on Todd Gurley. And I don't think we can overstate that. I mean, he was number three in the league in the percentage of eight and more man boxes that he faced. Number one was Tareke Cohen, who is five foot six and weighs 140 pounds. And number, and number two was one. L. Smallwood. Todd Gurley is a 230-pound battering ram who is one of the most high volume running backs in the NFL. He should not be third in the league in the percentage of eight-man

boxes that he faces. He should be like one or two. And that is the genius of what the Rams do offensively. Yes. So you want to go get by game? Let's do it. Let's start with a game that I was just at. Yeah. 2014 Saints, but I cannot remember a 24, game that was more impressive and more convincing than what the Saints did over the final three quarters of that game.

That drive where they had the two holding penalties and they had to gain like 115 total yards, that's one of the more impressive drives you'll ever see in a football game. It was remarkable. I think that one of the lessons

of this weekend was that a lot of these teams just were who we thought they were. That's exactly right. And we overthought it and we said, oh, maybe this unit, whatever, with the exception of maybe the Chief's defense,

we'll get to them in a little bit. Everybody was their truest self. And specifically, Drew Breeze and Michael Thomas were Drew Breed's and Michael Thomas. It didn't put up 40 points that they have in the past. But Michael Thomas had a historically high catch rate this year from Drew Bruce. Some of the things they were able to do, I don't have the final numbers in front of me, but I think at one point he was completing 85 or 90% of his passes over the middle of the field

within 15 yards or something. to Michael Thomas, it was around 90% for much of the year. When he throws to Michael Thomas, crazy things happen. And it's just unbelievable to, in a game that is so, I know this sounds strange,

but this is a hard freaking sport. And to make it look that easy is really, really, really impressive. They tried to give away the game like five different times. And they were just too good to give away the game. And that's kind of what I thought.

coming into this. In my mind, I just thought there were too many avenues for the Saints to win. There were too many things they could go to if necessary if something else wasn't working. And that's what today was. The running game was not dominant. If you look at the numbers on average, they were fine, but they were not getting consistent chunks of yardage on the ground. And what Breeze was able to do, even as they were enduring penalties, everything else, it was so, so, so fun to watch. They had this really cool combination that they were working where they would send Kamara to the flat to hold that corner

and they would let Thomas work in the zones behind it. And watching him and Breeze just work that two-man game and understanding spacing and accuracy and how to manipulate defenders. I mean, it was a master class in how you play offensive football. So what did we think about Nick Foles? I mean, you were there. you can be the expert on this.

So the first quarter game plan on both the Saints end was very interesting to me and the Eagles looked like they were about to run away with this thing. What from your perspective from the Superdome?

What did it look like and how did the game develop? I think that after the Saints scored their first touchdown, you felt the tide start to turn. And when they came back out for that next drive, they didn't end up scoring,

but you could just feel the vibe in the building where it's just like, oh, this is their game. It's 14 to 7, but no one in this estableness thinks that the Eagles are going to win this game. And I think, and a huge part of that was how the defense played.

Latimore was unbelievable. I mean, he was just on an entire different level. I mean, I think that I saw Alshan Jeffrey catch one pass while Latimore was in coverage. I haven't seen the numbers on it. But he was everywhere. Two picks, obviously that's going to be the headline. But even outside of that, that dude was just playing like his hair was on fire. All season, we thought the Saints are the.

the most complete team in the NFC. And watching that game today, I think no differently. I just think that is the best crew. And again, they just have so many different things that they can go to to beat you. And that's what we saw tonight. Yeah. I mean, it's, I, I have thought the Saints are going to win the Super Bowl for a little bit now for at least a month, just because of the way the defense came on.

And to see a performance like that, to see Michael Thomas be 171 yards, I, I, I feel fairly confident that they're going to win next week. The drive where they, that drive where they had a couple penalties and they eventually did end up scoring, there were, I think, two, three plays that really kind of encapsulate who the Saints team is and why they're so good. The first play was the Kamara touchdown that came back. That's just gorgeous play design. Remember that kind of style and that concept that everyone was stealing last year, where it was that running back on the vertical route up the seam?

the chiefs did it. We saw the Rams do it. It was very similar to that where you're kind of taking advantage of your athlete in space against the lesser defender and it was gorgeous. It didn't end up counting,

but that's the type of stuff that Saints can do. The other play is, do you remember that third down where Breeze hit Thomas in that void in the middle of the field, but he looked off to his right to a receiver that wasn't even there?

He'd beenip... Camaro was in the flat, but Breeze is, eyes were downfield. So he was looking to a space down the right sideline that wasn't occupied by an actual player. And he got Maddox to drift over that way. And he came back to Thomas in that void.

And it was just gorgeous manipulation. It's just like next level quarterbacking. And then the final play, the touchdown on that drive, it was a Michael Thomas touchdown. And he literally just boxed out a cornerback. He's like, I am bigger and stronger than you. This is my football. And watching all of those things happen in succession, it's like, holy shit. this team is good.

There are just so many different things they could do to destroy you and it's really fun to watch. So there's a couple things. Number one, I do want to, because they're out now, I do want to talk with the Eagles for a second. All right,

this was a remarkable run. It truly was. And I think what you said last week. And they should feel better about some of the young players. I mean, like the ability for their secondary to basically regenerate on the fly. Yes. I mean, they didn't give up.

I mean, obviously Michael Thomas owned them today, but it's not like they gave up 40 points. They struggled today, but even the fact that they could be somewhat palatable over the last six to eight weeks. Remember,

the last time these two teams played, it was the biggest margin victory in the history of a Super Bowl champion. Like, it set the record. No Super Bowl champion has ever lost by more points than the last time these two teams played.

The fact that this team was able to go to Chicago and beat a good Bears team and be in the game against this Saints team. It really does speak to how good of a job that Howie Roseman has done in building this team

and just how fucking good Doug Peterson is, man. He is a really, really good head coach. This team is set up for success. And I know this season was somewhat disappointing considering the standard that they set last year. But if you're an Eagles fan, you got to feel pretty damn good right now. Dude, did you see the video of,

so, so, you know, Sean Payton did the money thing and a Lombardi trophy thing, $200,000 in cash. Did you see the super cut of Doug Peterson promising his player's ice cream? No, I haven't seen that yet. Someone juxtaposed those two things. So apparently in team meetings all the time, like all the time. This video was very, very long.

Apparently in team meetings, Doug Peterson is always like, okay, guys, we got some ice cream outside. And then so someone just superimposed that or juxtaposed that with Sean Payton saying, you guys want $200,000? Doug Peterson's like, you guys want ice cream. explains a lot. We've talked so much this week about head coach hirings

and about who's going to succeed, who's not. And I think that there are big serious elements to why these guys fail and why they don't. And I think that it's about humility. It's about kind of surrounding yourself with the right people, all of that stuff.

I think as you and I have spent more and more time around NFL teams, you realize how much that stuff matters like the ice cream thing? and just like how much it's just being able to tap into a collective personality of which you want your team to be. And it's we talk so much about play calling and structure and design and genius and all that shit. Emotional intelligence goes so far as a coach. And I think that what you saw with that Eagles team last year and even what you saw with them this year,

it is a testament to the emotional intelligence and just the empathy that exists on that coaching staff. And that cannot be underrated. Yep, totally agree. I just love the Eagles infrastructure. It's one of those things where I was actually talking to somebody the other day. And we were talking about just why teams win. And you can usually figure it out, you know, just infrastructure-wise. I'm just a big believer in those winning organizations and losing organizations.

And you can pretty clearly figure out the difference. And when I was reporting a story in August and September, I talked to a lot of people around the Eagles. Talked to Jeffrey Lurie. I talked to Doug Peterson. I talked to a lot of the players. I talked to a lot of the ex-employees. And it was basically about how the Eagles became sort of a model franchise.

And when you talk to them, you get it. And you understand how they're able to always at least compete, whether that's with Chip Kelly. Remember they had some nice runs with Chip? You know, I think they had two 10-win seasons, even with maybe a less talented roster. Obviously, they had an incredible run with Andy Reid. And now with Doug Peterson, you just sort of get it.

Jeffrey Lurie has an answer for everything. He really thinks about this stuff. He doesn't meddle, but he understands. I think that's, and the crafts have this too. They understand it. If they wanted to be the GM, they probably could do a low-grade version of it and be decent. But instead, they know all of this stuff, and they just want to know it and just ask the right questions. They let their people be their people.

I think that's what's really fascinating about it. So let's talk about the model organization. Let's get to the Patriots. I was there. The performance they put, I'll ask you about it in a second, but just one. watching from afar. Yes. I cannot overstate how goddamn good that coaching step is.

Watching them call that offense today was just amazing. Well, I'll get into some of the individual plays that really stood out. But just the way that that organization exists, there is nothing like it. And I'm sure you feel the same way. But goodness gracious, was that an unbelievable showing by just everything that the Patriots. are. Okay. This stat was incredible to me. So it's in the NFL. Sony and Michelle and the Patriots took advantage of the Chargers defensive back heavy defense. Yep. Despite, did you see the numbers on the run in the past

predictability? With who? With Michelle and, and, and, and, and, oh, yes. So when White was in, they threw the ball 97% of the point time. You call it 20 passes, so that sounds right. And, and when Sony Michelle was in the 80, 82% run. When Michelle and Devlin were in, it was 90% run. And yet, there was nothing the Chargers could do. Yeah, they beat him up. This was a mulling. This was a part of it is scheme.

Part of it is scheme because they knew they basically just came out in a defense. It was never going to work. And the Patriots knew what was going to happen. But a lot of it, when you look at numbers like that, it's not just scheme. it's just you're, we're going to just beat you up, bro. And that's what I assume that New England would do. They, they've always done such a good job of taking advantage of when teams go small. And they're just like, all right, we're just going to run it at you.

And they did that well today. But even beyond that, I was so impressed by how efficiently they threw the ball, despite the fact that they had that defensive back heavy of a defense. So obviously, White had what, 15 catches? Yeah. second he broke his own record for receptions by running back. Yeah, I mean, he had 15 catches. I mean, he was the centerpiece of their passing game.

And he was amazing. I mean, he's been amazing all year. He has been the most valuable skill position player on that team this season. I don't even think it's a conversation. But just watching them, again, structure those route combinations. They did such a good job of taking advantage of the underneath areas of the field, whether it was white or Edelman, that just clearing things out. out and letting those guys work underneath.

It was so impressive to watch. Edelman was just on a level today. He was playoff Julian Edelman. I mean, that dude, at this age, he should not be able to dominate a game like that against a really good secondary, and he did. But there was one play specifically. So the touchdown they threw to Dorset

in the back corner of the end zone. So if you go back and watch that, Dorset and Edelman are on the left side, and they motion Edelman down from out wide, like toward Dorsetton. set in the slot on that play. And it bumps the charger's coverage down. And then Dorset ran that corner out against Desmond King, who was a little bit confused

about assignment because they had just bumped Edelman down. And that play specifically sticks out to me because that is the pay, McVeigh and his staff talk about this all the time. The key to offensive football is understanding defensive assignments and how to play with them. And watching that Dorset touchdown happen, it was like, good Lord, is this page? Patriots team completely locked in to how you manipulate and take advantage of specific defensive assignment football. It's just they're on such a different plane that pretty much every other

coaching staff in the league. And at a certain point, I'm going to learn to give that more credence than I do. Yeah, I give it all the credence in the world. I just, I know you do. I just forget every once in default. I assume everything in football is built up with little edges because you're never actually, it is not college football. It's never going to be. Clemson against, you know, Georgia State or whatever. But that's the thing is they were less talented today. And it just didn't matter.

The margin of talent, though, I do believe is so thin that there are just, there's maybe 10 or 15 things that matter. And the Patriots had 12 advantages in those 15 things. I don't know how many things matter, but I'm just saying it's a percentage basis. Maybe let's say 12 or 12 of 15, something like that. I just think they had a better coaching. I think they had the home field. I think that they had a better quarterback.

They were going to have a better sort of understanding of the game plan, better health, probably. I mean, I just think there's just a lot of little edges this team had. And I thought that was a lot, that was going to be fairly easy for them to overcompensate for the lack of relative talent. They still have a lot of talent. They're not, I mean, they're not the Arizona Cardinals here.

No, they're not. But that Chargers roster is better. And I just, again, I did not give the proper respect to just. But this is how they win. This is how they win. Yeah. They win. But this was even a better showing than we normally see.

But this was like even a pronounced version of it that even I have to sit back and just kind of shake my head. Sure. You ever seen the 2001 Super Bowl Robert? Like, oh, of course. But that was 17 years ago. No, but it keeps repeating itself. It keeps repeating itself.

It, we keep, they keep playing that every single week over and over again. They're very rarely the most talented team. The 07 team was. absolutely the most talented team. The 2011. No. Decently often. A 46-man roster,

how often have they been the most talented team in this run? I would say every other year. Okay. I mean, they've won the Super Bowl by not being that. Okay.

They've sustained this by not being that. They've sustained this by winning on the margins and having, and they know how to sacrifice certain things. They know, okay, we can get away without a pass rush this year because we have a good secondary.

Okay, because they understand the limitations. We can get away with maybe a worst offensive line. The pass rush. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm speaking in generalities. I'm speaking in generalities. I'm sorry. I'm talking about just kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul because they understand.

It's not about having the 10 best players, not having 15 best players or the five best players, still having the top 46 man roster, the depth. That's why they like positional flexibility, because all they care about is a 46 man roster. And so what I'm saying is all they care about is, is winning games. I know that sounds simplistic, but they have the fourth best offense and the seventh best defense.

The difference between... Basically, so there's three teams at the top with scoring, the Chiefs, the Rams, and the Saints. And the difference between how many points the Chief scored and how many points the Patriot scored is a difference about the difference

between how many points the Patriots scored and the Raiders scored. That's how different it is. I think the difference between one and four is difference between four and 27. Okay. And so it is a difference. huge, huge golf. They are not in the elite offenses and yet they're here. And that is what I find

fascinating. And that is why I think that they, they're just, they're able to compete in an era where they just, they probably should not be able to play with the other three teams left here. But they're going to do it because they have a seventh best defense and they know how to win on the margins. So I think that when we talk about talent and the Patriots, I think we have to kind of reframe the conversation. And when I say that, I'm talking, the player that I have in mind when I put out that point is Trey Flowers. Yes. Right.

So when you watch Trey Flowers play, he had how many sacks this year? It was, I believe it was seven and a half, seven and a half eight, which is not a huge sack number. You're not going to, a casual football fan is not going to throw out Trey Flowers with Kaleo Mac and Aaron Donald and J.J. Watt and the best defense players in the NFL. But they use him in such a unique way. If they need to unleash him as a pass-racher, they can. If he has to play gap control and just be a very understated and sound player on the edge, he can do that as well. Their ability to be malleable not only with their game plan as a whole, but make individual players malleable is unlike anything else that we see in the league.

I think he is a conduit for that, but I think that they do it all over the roster and it's what allows them to do what they did today. Yeah, I mean, they have very, very good players. I'm just saying they have a lot less elite guys than a lot of these teams. I think someone made the point in the ringers NFL Slack that, you know, the chargers might have four or five elite elite guys and how many of the Patriots truly have. And I'm not even sure if you took the name off, is Tom Brady an elite quarterback? Yes, because of the mental side of it. Okay.

No, I'm just, I'm saying if you just saw the numbers and you saw the performance this year, and there was no name you would still say he's elite. 100%. I mean, I just, he's Tom Brady. I'm, listen,

I pick him in every game. Like, there's a reason for that. I'm just, I'm just talking about the number of just absolute blue chip players. Yeah, they have, they have fewer this year than they've had in a lot of seasons.

And I think that's why I was down on them. He is no longer blue chip. He is no longer a blue chip player. And Julian Edelman is in his 30s and probably isn't either, but he shows up in the playoffs. I mean, I guess you could probably say that, I don't know, David Andrews had a big game, but no one the offensive line really jumps out to you. I mean, they're fine.

Like, Marcus Cannon's had some nice seasons. I mean, I think that Shaq Mason is one of better guards in the NFL, but he probably wouldn't be in the top five if you were listing them off. So, no, your point stands. I just, again, they are the ultimate example of the sum being greater, the whole being greater than the sum of their parts. Like, that is what the New England Patriots are. And they were that again today.

Yep, that's what they do. All right, let's get to the next one. Cowboys and Rams, what a fascinating game by the Rams offense. That's what I want to talk about first and foremost. I just watching CJ Anderson do that and then watching the game that Todd Gurley had, it's, I wrote about this this week

about how the Rams have, they only use 11 personnel for the most part. They tweak that in the last couple games of the season in a week 16 and 17, but that's who the Rams want to be. And they want to be that first. a certain purpose. They want to get you light so they can run the ball against you and then use play action.

But then on top of that, they have to do so many different things in order to play with tendencies in order to kind of move your eyes as a defensive player because if the 11 players are going to be the same, something else has to be different. And in the first quarter of this game, they ran that orb motion and Duran to Josh Reynolds. Do you remember this? And then on pretty much every single play. action pass they ran for like another quarter and a half. They used that orb motion as a secondary distraction for the linebackers and the

safeties. And it just allowed them to carve them up. And especially in the run game, they did such a good job of moving eyes, of really playing with assignments again. It just, McVeigh is so good at this. And watching him have this sort of game and scheming up the running game like he did was really cool to watch. do you think there's anything to the idea

that I thought it was kind of funny that neither golfed normal homes through a touchdown I think that's kind of funny So golf did not play that well Right I think he had a middling game I thought we had that

I mean it was get to Mahomes But okay But that that that third What was it third and seven run I mean I just think at some point You just to basically to to seal the game I think he played He's not the player he

was the first, what, eight, nine weeks of the season. But I think that he was fine. He wasn't actively bad and he sealed the game. He made some third down throws that were really nice. It's like clutch running. It's this era, this stretch of the season is when you really find out who's great on the coaching side.

And watching McVeigh play with his tendencies was so cool. I mean, if you look at the numbers for the Rams all season, only 4% of their total runs came out of shotgun. And they had some really big shotgun runs in that game against Dallas. There was one really nice CJ Anderson run. I think the second

drive of the game. McVey just is doing such a good job of within this kind of simplistic aspect of who they are, playing with every single tuner in that plan. And watching a coach at that level is just such a cool thing to do at this time of year.

Did you see they ran like almost double the play action they normally do? Not almost double, but I think they went from 35% to like 55%. It's exactly what they wanted to do in this game. It's awesome. This was the Rams plan distilled. This is exactly who they want to be.

They made those linebackers look like they had no idea what the fuck they were doing. And those guys were really good all season. The Rams offense is all about linebacker manipulation. And this was the crown jewel of that exact plan and that exact approach. There's a couple people who've sort of independently come to the idea who work at the Ringer that people should just run the Philly special at the goal line all the time. Like I have Roger Sherman has, a couple people have. Like, I know they're basically what the Rams are doing.

And the thought behind that is like if it works, just keep doing it until it stops working. The Rams and also Kyle Shanahan, but he is not here. The dearly departed 49ers are not here. But they're just like, you know what? This works. I'm just going to keep going until it doesn't work anymore. And they're just going to run play action on every. single play. The Eagles do that too.

The Eagles are a huge play action team. The chiefs are a huge play action team. It is not an accident that the best teams in the NFL and the most progressive offensive minds in the NFL love play action. And you know who is the most consistent play action team in terms of production over the last decade? The New England fucking Patriots. This stuff is not hard. It's not hard to understand why teams are good and why teams aren't. And watching these games this weekend, that's exactly the takeaway. It's like, yep, these are the four best play callers with Doug Peterson

and Frank Reich being very close behind and those were also two of the last coaches in this. It's really easy to trace the recipe for success in the modern NFL. Is it knowing Sean McVeigh? It's playing like Sean McVeigh. It's

coaching like Sean McVeigh. And that's why people want Sean McVeigh. I understand it. That really is Sean McVe McVe thing really got away from me. So I made the chart there and it was the last thing that I wrote down on my notebook and I put my notebook down at the Patriots game today and everybody was like, that's the notebook. That's really funny. And I was like, I've never seen your handwriting before. It's interesting. So I can we talk about it for a second? I get a row to a little bit. So I'm left handed. And if you've, if anybody's

I did not know for a long time. If anybody's watched worst picks, my handwriting is illegible to anybody with me. Jason Gallagher makes fun of me for this all the time. Mine's the same way. I mean, just, I mean, I will at some point put my real handwriting up on there. It's completely legible. The only way I can write my letters to where other people can read them is if I write them backwards. If I write the letters backwards. I've never seen you write. I guess I've probably seen you write before. But if you saw my actual notes, people would think it was not English. Oh, my notebook is disgusting. I would never show it to anyone. It's embarrassing. The reason the letters look weird in the McVeigh joke thing

is because I'm writing them backwards because I'm just like, okay, how can I form these so the humans can read them? When people see me taking notes while I'm watching a game, they can never understand what's happening because it's, I do the abbreviation for the team. So if it's a Dallas play, I'll do

DAL, Aero, timestamp in Q blank, and then I'll write the description of the play. And when people are watching me do it, they're like, what the fuck does that say? And it's like, no, it makes sense. trust me, I know what it says. Don't worry about it. But I get very uneasy and very self-conscious

when people are watching me write things down because it's so nasty. Okay, well, I didn't expect this kind of talk. Well, I'm to say, it's, yak and handwriting. We both have bad handwriting. That's really all there is to say.

All right, let's get to the Chiefs and the Colts. So, all right, I want to, I tweeted this during the game, and maybe a little bit after. I can't remember the exact timing. And I said that we've never seen a quarterback like Patrick Mahomes. And people kind of freaked out a little bit. And I want to explain what I meant by that.

I'm not talking about. What did they freak out about? It's just like, have you, like, have you watched Farv? Like, what about Rogers and Elway? And it's like, all right. That's fine. All right. So let's have a discussion.

I did not mean that he's the most talented quarterback I've ever seen. I didn't mean that he's the best quarterback I've ever seen. I meant that I've never watched a quarterback make the sorts of throws that he makes. And there's one play in particular that I'm thinking about. It was the one where he found Kelsey in kind of that secondary read thing that Mahomes does where he waits for somebody to open up after the play breaks down. And he was moving laterally and through the ball sidearm without turning his shoulders to the line of scrimmage.

I've never seen a quarterback do that. And that's what to me is special about him, is that he makes these throws on these angles with a certain amount of velocity and confidence that I've never seen a quarterback do. I mean, if you watched Elway and you watch Rogers, let's take the Rogers throw to Jared Cook in the Dallas game a couple years ago, right?

I think in a lot of ways, that's the best throw I've ever seen. But Rogers turned his body so it was parallel to the sideline, his shoulders. And he used his torso to get velocity on that throw and put it where he wanted to. Mahomes doesn't need to do that. And I think that's when I say I've never seen a quarterback like that.

That's what I'm talking about. Yes. So I sat down Mahomes two weeks ago and I wrote the story for the ringer.com this week. Everyone should read, go read it at the ringer.com. And also read everything at the ringer.com. We write things. That happens.

We write things all the time. And so I sat down with them. And I actually, I would like to make the comparison. When I talked about the Eagles and kind of having, just thinking about things, thinking things through, you can tell they've thought about things. Patrick Mahomes is like that for his arm, his throws, and his process. Yeah. I asked him a number of, I didn't have that much time with them, obviously, but I'd asked him a few questions that I didn't expect an answer to. And not only did I get an answer, but.

I got a very well thought out answer. He basically practices for every scenario. And, you know, the story was basically about his warm-ups and his process and how his throat has come to be. But really what they're doing, what he wants to see is what he's not capable of because he wants to push it to the absolute limit. And so, like, you know, yeah, he throws behind the back passes in warm-ups. And we talked about that.

And he said, and he said, that's for fun. And I stopped him. And I said, because he also said the left-handed throw-es. are for fun. And I said, well, you threw he's done it in a game. Yes. That's what I said. And so, like, he says the left-handed behind-the-back throws are for fun, but, like, I think he's just trying to see how good he can

get at it, because one day, that might have to be the goal line play. I just, I, I was very intrigued in talking to both him, his coaches, and his teammates to see how far he can take this, because I think that he can take it to maybe

places we're not currently thinking of. And I feel the exact same way. You know, comparison that I'm sure other people have made this comparison but is it DeF Curry. That's exactly right. Yeah. And so I was thinking about that yesterday. I was like, this guy is just this Def Curry football. And it's the warm-up thing, all that stuff.

No, just like the warm-ups. I mean, it's, that's, yeah, the warm-up thing makes me think about it. But again, it's just trying to see every single way your body can do a certain action and movement in order to make it familiar to yourself. And that's what Steph Curry does with his warm-ups. And that's why you see him so effortlessly release these balls on weird trajectories and everything

else, that watching Mahomes is like that. There's an effort, there's an effortlessness to it, but it's born of meticulousness. And I think that's why the comparison is apt. Yep, I agree. I mean, I think he's going to do some completely insane shit in the next three years. Can we talk about how Andy Reid is one of the best like seven coaches in the history of football and we should stop playing around with all of this? Like, it's-

Who's playing around with it? I think people, I think there's still clock management punchline stuff. And I just think that this season in general, and I believe that they're going to go to the Super Bowl, I think they'll win this week. And I think them beating Belichick will be very symbolic. We'll talk about that on Thursday's show. But I just feel like this is Andy Reid's masterpiece. And it's really time to sit back and appreciate what he has done as an offensive mind in this league. Do you know the stat about...

Belichick and Reed and Belichick's defenses with 40 more points. Are you familiar with this? I don't know what specifically you're talking about. Okay. So Belichick has coached 342 games via the Chiefs. He's given up 40.7 times.

Three of them are to Andy Reed. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm so excited for next weekend. And they're all, by the way, in the last four years, 14, 17, 18. next week will be my first NFL game at Arrowhead. Do you know this?

I did not know that. That's very exciting. And for an AFC championship game, you and I have talked about this, maybe personally, I don't if you ever mentioned on the pod. Conference championship games are the best time to be in an NFL football game.

I think that the Michael Crabtree, Richard Sherman game, is my favorite game I've ever covered. It's those games in that atmosphere, there is nothing that beats it. I mean, I was at the Packers, Seahawks game where the Seahawks recover the outside kick and they

had the comeback. Like it's, there is nothing like those games. So you'll be in New Orleans next weekend. I will be in Arrowhead. Two really under, not underrated, but two of the best buildings in the sport and two really good fan bases. Like this is a

great outcome and a great kind of structure for what next weekend is going to be. I'm really pumped. Yeah. Totally agree. I mean, it's, it's it's it's really i'm so happy that we're getting i don't care of who wins and who loses as far as just the fan bases but we're getting the four best teams yes as a football fan unless you're you know a particularly a grieved eagles fan or something or a chargers fan uh you know i can actually don't want to be upset but i think of your football fan you're happy with this outcome yeah it's

going to be entertaining and i the chiefs are and again we'll get into this morning thursday the chiefs are a quietly tortured fan base like the chiefs have been really good over the last 15 years. And the best chiefs teams have always lost before they were supposed to lose. And this made this, like in this modern era, this may be the first chiefs team that actually accomplishes what it was supposed to. And I went to college with a bunch of chiefs fans. So it's fun, man.

I mean, this is a really cool outcome if you like the sport and you want to see the best teams going at it. This is exactly what you would hope for. I saw a Chargers fan in the parking lot. I saw your tweet. I saw your tweet. I want to tell the story for the good people. So I get there and people are just like, hey, all right.

And I look, I assume it's like, you know, like Willie McGinnis or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I look, and it's a guy in a Donovan, Jersey who's just walking through the parking lot. And everyone is just so amused that there's a Chargers fan there, that they're just cheering for him. That's a way. He's waving.

He's waving back. Like he's in a parade. And then I tweeted this and a couple of people said that they had the same thing happen to them last year at the Jaguars game, which is people were just like, look at that, a Jaguars fan. And then Roger Sherman got in touch with me to tell me that he went to a Northwestern Texas and M game once in Texas and that he went to Northwestern and that Texas A&M fans took pictures with him because they went.

wanted to prove that they'd met a Northwestern fan. I also, everyone should want to take a picture with Roger Sherman. He's just, oh, I take many. Northwestern football is a weird space. Yes, it is. As someone who lives in Chicago, I can absolutely speak to that. And who's someone with both Ben Glickman

and Roger Sherman in his life. I can speak to that. Real quick, my wife went to Northwestern, and so she knows who Mike Kafka is. She knows who my Kafka is. And I obviously met with Mike Kafka for the Home Store, and I told her this. And she said,

I know who that is. And I swear to God, that's the first time she's ever said that. I could be like, I was the first time you and Emily have ever connected about the idea of football and what goes on. If I was like,

me and Russell Wilson was my Uber driver today, she'd be like, I don't know who that is. She probably knows Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, and then Mike. Maybe. Maybe. No, she knows who they are.

And then Mike Kafka. Those are the big three. Those are the big three. Brady Rogers, Mike Kafka. All right. Very quickly. I think we should talk about the chiefs defense because I think that's one of the other takeaways

I had from that game in this weekend. There is a reason you structure your team around consistent offense and it's that with a few scattered talented players and the right game plan, any defense can show up any single week. And that's why it's just worth betting on your quarterback and your head coach

and hoping that the defense plays well on a four week stretch. And that's exactly what the chiefs are doing right now. Yeah, I mean, when I went to the Oakland game a couple weeks ago, I came away hugely impressed by them. And, you know, we knew they had D. Ford who pressures a lot. He has, you know, one of the best pressure rates in the NFL. Justin Houston can make plays. They are what we've discussed as far as a decently built for the modern era unit, which is they can create mistakes.

And they're going to put up 30, 40 points in most situations. and you've got to hope they make, they force the offense to make more mistakes than, than Mahomes will. But that's why I was so impressed by what they did this week. That's, oh yeah. But that's why I was so impressed.

I'm talking about for the Patriots game. We're looking backwards. That was a mulling. They beat the shit out of their Colts. But, but that's the thing is that, it when, I mean, obviously,

Mac had 46 yards on nine carries, but one of those carries was 20 yards. The other eight went for 26. And the, The Chiefs rushing defense was so bad for most of the season. And if you can have a solid sound game against the run and then you have that pass rush to create those swing plays, that's enough. That's enough of a recipe. And I think we freaked out over the course of, especially before the year, I was like, oh, their defense just isn't good enough to take them where they want to go.

And I think that fundamentally how we have to think about structure and team building and where you should put your resources, I think that's changed this year. And I think they're a perfect example. That was the strangest pregame. Like, everyone was in on the Colts because it started to snow. Like, we miscast the Colts as like the 85 bears. Oh, it's snowing. I think it was more about the Colts offensive line has really won in physical. No, no, no.

I mean, like, it's not like the Colts don't have a quarterback who relies on throwing the ball. Like, it's not, it is not, Mahomes was not the only person. But they've run the ball well when they've needed to in recent weeks. I know. And I think, against this. Chiefs team, I think that's what people thought, is that they'd have 30 carries for 230 yards. And that just didn't happen. Well, that's why I saw an NFL network graphic that like every analyst picked the Colts.

Yeah, that was bizarre. I mean, the Chiefs are the best team. They have the MVP of the league. People got really, there were people I mentioned last week about, because I had said the home field advantage is really freaking important. And again, no team has played in the Super Bowl that has, that has played on the road since 2012. Think about that. No team has played a road game and then gone on to play in the Super Bowl since the 2012 season. And people got really on me last week because some of the wild card teams won.

And wild card lower seeds won. But this is the time. Yeah, this is the time of year. It matters. Homefield matters and seeds matter. The reason that the home field matters and seeds matter is because the seeds tell you who the best teams are. And the best teams win because they're good. And like, that was sort of what I was looking at with the chiefs and the Colts.

The Chiefs are a much better team than the Colts. And if they weren't, they wouldn't be the one seed and they wouldn't be playing at home. This is very simple math, folks. Yeah. I mean, I paid the Chiefs. This isn't college football where, like, some random panel decided they were the one seed. It's because they beat everybody's ass for 17 weeks. Yeah.

I mean, the best two teams in each conference moved on. And I think the Chargers were probably in that conversation as the number three in the AFC. But again, it's the Patriots did such a remarkable job today. I mean, it's the teams that deserve to be here are the ones that are here. And I could not be more excited about next weekend. So that's, I, what if the Bears were? You could, would you be more excited if the Bears were in it?

Yeah, of course. But I could not be more excited. I just threw a little wrinkle in there for you. I think more just from a watching football perspective. I honestly, I'd probably, I'd probably be less excited if the Bears were in it because I'd be so scared. I'm so nervous that I wouldn't be excited. Can I ask you a very quick question? Yes, just certainly can.

The Bears played in the dome today. They would have lost. Would it have been closer or less close? It would have been closer, not necessarily score-wise, but just when you watch two teams play, how comparable are they? I think it would have been closer in that regard, yes. Okay.

I think the Bears' defense would have done a much better job against the Saints offense. Again, it's only, 20 points. But if you watch that game, Drew Brees did what he wanted in the second half. When Cody Parky was on the Today Show, I didn't watch it. Can we talk about this very briefly?

Okay, but I just want to... The point I just want to make is that I feel like that game happened three months ago. Because Parky was on the day show and I was like, why? That seems Pegas. That game was like three weeks ago. And I was like, wow, that was five days ago. So people were on me because I was tweeting about it. I wasn't going to say

anything. What were you on? Were you mad about it? is that not just a complete lack of self-awareness and just completely tone deaf choice to make? If they ask you to be on the Today Show after you miss a game-winning kick in the in the playoffs, just say no. Well, maybe we'll just spin it the other way. Maybe he's trying to be just publicly accountable. But he wasn't.

It was the tone of, again, the joke I made is that it was the same tone that they'd use on the Today's show. if they were like telling you how to pack for a staycation with your cyber bully. It was just, it was the worst. What? It's just like, that's a 30 rock joke. Oh.

It was the staycation with your cyber boy is like a fake today's show segment. But it's just like, it's that today's show tone where it's just like, oh, you know, you missed a kick. How you doing? It's like, just just say no. Just don't be on the today's show. Like I don't mind that he missed a field goal. People miss field goals.

That's okay. But just go quietly. into the off season and don't go on national television and make a mockery of the whole thing. It's my only request. I don't think that's unreasonable. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm really upset that we got here.

Was it a good or bad booking for the Today Show? Oh, I have no idea. No, that's my question. I'm looking for like the app, the other side. Why did the Today Show book Cody Parking? I think it's, I mean, he's a national name. I think it's the type of thing they wouldn't have

on their program normally. He's a national name after missing that kick. Yeah. Too many people screamed Cody Parky to me on the street in New Orleans yesterday. What?

Like five. Yes. That's strange. Strange things to yell at you? Yes. So yeah. Cody Parky is a person. Nobody yells at me.

Why, did people yell at you? I had three different people just scream Cody Parky to me on the street. yesterday in New Orleans. That's a tough beat, dude. Yeah, just thanks, guys. I really appreciate Eagles fans.

No one yells at me. All right. That's all we got. We will be back on Thursday, as we always are. I believe you and I will be recording in person for the Thursday show this week. On Thursday, yes, I think so. Yes. We haven't actually talked about when I arrive in New Orleans when you leave.

But it's, I think we overlap. So I think we'll be doing it together awkwardly in a hotel room. I think that's the plan. Okay. We don't even know where, again, We just found this out five minutes before the show started. So I don't know. Yeah, it's great. Okay.

All right. As always, guys, thank you so much for listening to Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcasts Network. We'll talk to you soon.