The Ringer NFL Show - The Rebuilding Categories and Absolute Units

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

Nora, Ben, and Danny break down which teams are off track during their rebuild, which teams are an offseason away, and which teams are ready to compete in the 2022-23 season. They also premiere the Absolute Units segment. Host: Nora Princiotti, Ben Solak, and Danny Heifetz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Chris Martin, and me and my buddy Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O Everything, host an NBA podcast called The Mismatch. They call it The Mismatch because I'm awesome and Kevin is a gigantic nerd. No, no, that's not why at all, Chris. They call it the Mismatch because I have a brain and you're a loudmouth bozo. Good grief. Anyway, listen to our amazing NBA podcast, The Mismatch. Or don't.

We really don't care. We're probably going to win a million awards either way. Good, Chris. We do care. So don't say that. Please subscribe and listen to the mismatch only on Spotify. Did you really call me a bozo? Hello, and welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Bucciotti. I am here today with Danny Hyfitz and Ben Solac.

Ben Solac just called me Mam off air. So I'm going to start by asking Danny Hyphitz how he's doing today. Danny, what's up? I'm fantastic. I mean, Solac calls me ma'am, too. I think it's just a very polite young guy. It's just his verbal tick. It's just an instinct.

Hi, Nora. Hi, Ben. You're out of the doghouse, I suppose, after 30 seconds. Yeah, it's very good to see both of you. I'm excited to do a little ringer draft show, ringer NFL show crossover event here. Bring you guys back over to the good side. I will say, I find your intro of all of the NFL show host intro is the most pleasant.

Because I waffle between Kevin, who is, Welcome to Reganavisianavis and Kevin Clarki. I'm joining my best line, never for us and high fits, who literally be talking to us at this volume for the entire pre-show, and then we'll descend upon the show at a ridiculous volume that we often turn our mics, our audio down for.

Nor just intros the show, and I find it delightful. Well, that's very nice. I have been told that on another podcast I frequent every single album. I have a real habit of enunciating the first letters of people's names.

So I'll say, Nathan, to my co-host, Nathan Hubbard, quite frequently. I don't know that I do that with Ben, Kevin, Danny. It might just be an N thing. It's hardly do that when you call people ma'am. Or when they call you ma'am. That's when you drop it on them. I've also been told that me yelling's very pleasant, Ben, so I don't know. No, you haven't.

People aligned you. It's never happened. There's a Danny hype that's setting on a white noise machine. There's a few people tuning into that every night. They try to get some shut-eye. That's really creepy. Let's do a football podcast before I say something weird. Too late.

We are going to spend today having so much fun checking in on some rebuilding teams because it is the offseason. It is time for hope. It is time for progress. It is time to think about all the ways in which so many teams across the NFL have gotten better and made enormous strides. Just kidding. We're going to tell some teams that they haven't gotten better. we are going to go through a bunch of teams that we designated as rebuilding based on

their having switched quarterback and at least one of their general manager or head coach in the last two off seasons. Now, we also grandfathered in the New York football giants just because our guy Danny Hypertz was going to be here and we knew who was going to come with the takes. They changed head coach. They switched coach NGM, baby. Yeah. But so we said they had to have switched quarterback.

It could be Idaho. I'm going to call. Daniel Jones's option, which is spiritually. Right. So we're letting it count. And then same goes with the Steelers because Kevin Colbert's leaving. The one thing that we did was we crossed out some teams like the Saints where there was, there was a switch, but it was to someone who was sort of an incumbent. and not necessarily

far be it from us to tell the saints that they should be rebuilding. I do not think that would go over well in New Orleans. Exactly. They're telling John Wick to just like maybe you guys can talk this thing out. Goes against their very nature.

So the teams that we wound up with are the giants, jets, Broncos, Texans, jaguars, eagles, lions, bears, panthers, falcons, and Steelers. And we are going to put these teams into categories

based on where they are in the rebuilding process and how it's going. I am, of course, going to try to get through this entire podcast without using the word tears. Wish me luck. It's going okay so far, I would say. And then we're going to spend a little bit of time. And Ben and Danny have graciously agreed to try out a fun little segment with me that we're going to call it Better Know a Unit.

Stephen Colbert used to do Better Know a District way back in the day. to always think that was a fun segment. And we're going to dive into the Packers' defense a little bit with that. So bear with us as we give it a whirl, but I think it's going to be fun and informative. And what could be better than that?

Tears. Tears are better than that. Tears, for sure. Definitely. Random take purges. Those are good. Is this a rhetorical question? Quite possibly. Quite possibly. So let's start with our rebuilding teams check-in.

So we've got three categories that we separated all of those teams into. Ready to compete. An off season away, maybe more than an off season away, and then off track. And what I want us to do is go category by category and see where we matched up, see where we assessed teams as being in the same spot and where there are some differences. And I always like to end on a positive note. So why don't we start with the rebuilding teams that don't seem to be doing so well

that seem to maybe be off track in the rebuild? Ben, will you tell us which teams you designated as off track in their rebuilds? Okay, so I have three teams off track. I have like three and a half teams off track because there was one team that I just could not get into one of these groups, not tiers, as hard as I tried. So for me, the Steelers, the Panthers, and the Jaguars

are clearly off track. the Panthers to me are the easiest one. Keep pounding. That roster sucks. It's pretty clear to, I think, me and to a lot of people outside the building that they have a lame duck head coach. Once you have a lame duck at one of the two primary decision-making spots, head coach, and general manager, you're in a really bad spot to me because you're letting that guy influence decisions. And he kind of has a sense that he doesn't have a long-term outlook. So now he can be more aggressive in the short term.

You kind of look at the Sam Donald trade and trading all those future picks. as an example of the Panthers, they then had the sixth overall pick, took Icom or Quad, and it's like, all right, well check in with them in the fourth round. When they pick again, it's like that's a horrible position for a rebuilding team to be in.

So to me, the Panthers are very clearly off track. The Steelers are a difficult one. I don't think they're contending. I think that's pretty clear to see. The defense obviously has some stretches where it looks dominant because it has some dominant players. I think if it's Bradrick and T.J. Watt. But in general, I don't think you can really win

emphatically on defense in the modern NFL. And even if you could, I wouldn't rank this defense up there with some of the truly elite ones, the truly devastating, suffocating ones. And so I don't think they have that. And then I think there's a lot of turmoil on offense, but the offensive line has to be completely retooled. They have changes at wide receiver.

Now the juju's gone and obviously Chase Claypool had a frustrating year. They have a rookie running back in Najee Harris, who looks to be quite talented. And then they have Mitchell Chubisky and Kenny Pickett, not the quarterback I would have taken at 20 in the room. It's very hard to figure out what you hang your hat on here, especially when they've gone through an offensive coordinator change, and they still have Matt Canada,

who Matt Canada was struggling to hold down a job in college and is now locked in as the Steelers' offensive coordinator, very peculiar. So to me, the Steelers are listless. They're a little bit without a rudder, without a paddle right now. I don't know what they're trying to do. And like he said, there's a GM transition as well. To me, that, like, off track is a little bit unfair. I just don't think they're on the track yet.

I don't even think they've, like, kind of even really started this thing here. They're just, you know, dealing with getting bad. So I want to hear about the rest of your off track list in a second. But Danny, where did you fit the Steelers in here? Because I did not have them this low. I think this is interesting. I don't have them this low. And it's also, this is rewashables-esque because I don't totally know what the category's been,

tears, whatever. I interpreted ready to compete as could this team compete for its division? And if the answer is yes, so I put the Steelers in ready to compete, which is funny because I kind of. have agreed the So-like they're off-track, but you have to skew, you have to give them a curved grade because the Steelers and the Ravens, like the AFC North, it's defined by competition. The Steelers are always in it. The Steelers are always able to make the playoffs.

The Ravens are always make the playoffs. So I feel like the Steelers are doubling down. I don't feel like they're ever a team that's a year away. Although I agree with So-like that they're off-track from Super Bowl contention, but I also kind of wonder if the Steelers will just get better. I think, personally, I think Ben Rothesburg has been holding the Steelers back for like two-plus years now. So even at Trubisky or even Kenny Pickett eventually might just straight up be better, if not because they're more experienced, but at the least, this freaking offense was so held back

by a bad offensive line. But Rothesberger just kind of made everyone look worse because he had to be in shotgun and he couldn't throw deep. And it was like defenses, there was no element of surprise. They knew exactly what to do. And even if they're not maybe as experienced as Rothesberger, Trubisky or Pickett being more mobile, not having to be in shotgun, they also upgraded their offensive line. I feel like the Steelers' offense will get better just because Rothesburg is not playing there. And then they have defensive pieces. And I feel like they address certain spots they needed like a cornerback in the offseason. So I feel like this team could win the division. So in some ways, I was a little bit inclined to agree

with you. I put them as an offseason, at least an offseason away. But if anything, I felt like it was a little low just because they went nine, seven and one last season with really, really poor quarterback play. Exactly. The thing that held me back, though, is that while they did work on their offensive line somewhat, I mean, James Daniels, Mason Cole and free agency, I'm not super convinced that that is going to be a fixed issue.

And then the problem is that you're going from Rothesberger, who I agree was holding them back, but who was who had completely committed, to this play style where he was getting the ball out in like 0.0 seconds. And now all of a sudden, Mitchell Trubisky or Kenny Pickett is supposed to do this. Like, here's my thing. I'm with you guys until we put the names to the players.

Like when I say, team that moved on from aged poor veteran quarterback, drafted a first round quarterback, signed a new corner two, got a new middle linebacker after the guy that drafted me, the strong middle linebackers struggling, added two new offensive linemen to a room that desperately needed it.

And I don't put the names to the players. It's like, yeah, all right. Like this team went 9-7 and 1 last year. They made a lot of the adjustments that they seemed like they needed to make. They're there. They're pushing. But once I put Kenny Pickett, Levi Wallace,

Miles Jack, James Daniels, and Mason Cole, plus also Mitch and Spisky, and I plugged those names in, this no longer feels to me like a team that actually can compete, which I was thinking about competing. in terms of like a playoff run, right? Yeah, and that's fair because I wouldn't

I wouldn't say the Steelers are a Super Bowl contender. I'd say they're a playoff contender. And that's why they land in off track from me is because they are behaving like a team. And this is like, I would have done the same thing to the Saints, the Saints were here. And the Saints kind of have a good roster too.

They are behaving like a team that has a reasonable outlook on winning the division and winning a playoff game. But when I look at their roster, I do not see that outcome. And accordingly, they're off track because their expectations

and the way they're building relative to those expectations is dissonant relative to where I view them as a team. I just can't, I refuse to let my barometer be moved that much by Mason Cole. This is what a point.

We have one Mason on a team. Is this a rule? The Jets have like two have a breeze and a Bryce Hall. Well, that's the, the Patriots have like four cornerbacks with the last name Jones. Well, that's why I have the Jets

as an offseason away because the Jets are building their whole team out of people solely comprised of like they also have the other name on the team. So they have, they drafted two guys named Michael Carter last year. They have a quarterback named Wilson, throwing a receiver name Wilson.

They have a brace and a Bryce Hall. They need one more offseason where they can get like two more of those combos. That's like going to be like 10 people. That's like you could do a whole starting unit, almost 11 people who just all have the same name. It's like that's the next level. Do the Jets still have one of the two

Offensive Alignment named Connor McGovern or is he not there? Because there are two officers of linemen in the league right now currently named Connor McGovern. It's so weird. I'm pretty sure it's Denver and Dallas. Which is also you get the alliteration there. I'm not going to lie.

I didn't know there were two Connor McGoverns, and I have a lot of questions answered. Because I've always actually wondered about that. I'm in knowledge. I actually have always had trouble keeping track of what TV he was on, and actually now I understand why. I've only ever, I think I've been more aware of Dallas, Connor McGovern.

Are we sure there's two? Are we like 100% sure of this? They ever been seen in the same room at the same time? The Jets Wire, October 16th, 2021. New York Jets versus Dallas Cowboys. Who has the better Connor McGovern? Okay, so there we go. The Jets have to get the other Conor McGovern.

The Jets did have half of the Conner Goverins at one point. Once they play both Connor McGoverns on the offensive line, then they will, then the Jets will be. Step three, profit. Yeah. So anyway, the Steelers to me are off track. As are we on this podcast. The only other team that I had as off track was the Jacksonville Jaguars,

which in terms of off track, the vibes are the best. But like Trevor Lawrence is great. That's cool. But whenever you make consecutive first round first overall picks and in that period of time, your head coach departs in disgrace and your general manager remains even though absolutely nobody wants him to remain and the entire fan base was wearing clown outfits in week 18 to ridicule and mock you for retaining him.

And then the guy he takes it one overall would have been taken like eight overall by anybody else, you are by definition off track. We didn't even get into Zay Jones and Christian Kirk contracts. Like, Lawrence, it covers so many warts. And that's why it feels a little bit weird to put them as off track, because they have this guy and he played extremely well last year. The film is incredible.

But overall, I cannot, in good conscience say that the Jaguars are on any sort of track. This team is discombobulated and I hate them. Yeah, it's like when Moneyball, when he's like there's 40 feet of crap and then there's us. The Jaguars have had the worst record in the NFL two years in row, and it's not even close to the most embarrassing thing about them. Yeah. want, wamp.

Danny, was there anybody on your off-track list that Solac didn't hit? Yeah. So, where do you have the Chicago Bears? Thank you. Is that like a user error? I have the Bears on off-season away. Or maybe more.

What? It says or maybe more. It says or maybe more in the thing. Here's, I struggle. I struggle. Okay, but, but come on, explain, I will phrase the question, Leslie. Explain how the Chicago Bears are moving in the right,

direction. Because there was nothing, there was nothing to do this year, except for sit there and take one on the chin. I, as much as I love Justin Fields, and as desperately as I want the Bears to do nothing but draft offensive linemen and wide receivers, sign offensive linemen and wide receivers,

and give him everything necessary for him to be successful. I understand why, and this goes back to don't let lame ducks hang around for another year, I understand why Ryan Poles looked at this team and how it was managed by Ryan Pace and said, all right, we just got to get rid of a bunch of contracts. We have to take a step back, take a step forward. Not for nothing.

It's what the Giants are doing this season in terms of letting a bunch of contracts that they probably want to move on from, hang around for a little bit, and not taking a massive cap hit this year to subsequently make a lot of those guys leave next season. That could have been an option for polls and the Bears. They could have been right. Let's keep Khalil Mack. Let's keep Eddie Goldman. Let's keep the Keem Hicks.

Let's try to keep Alan Robinson. Let's try to feel better about ourselves because it looks better in terms of keeping recognizable names and big money deals on the books, but functionally it's not that much better. I am far be it from me to say the bear's roster is good. It's not. But I do think that the approach of Ryan Poles to clean house this year

become extremely cheap relative to the cap and have a ton of cap's face for next season to make aggressive moves. I do think it's defensible. I would have liked draft-wise for them to be a little bit less oriented on drafting like 24-year-olds, that would have been great for me.

Trading and acquiring future capital would have been awesome and made more sense relative to this, so it's not perfect. But I do think that the Bears have a clearer idea of what they're going to do over the next two to three years relative to the teams that I put in the blowoutier, the off-track tier. And so for me, there are multiple off-seasons away,

but they're at least to see the path and they're on it. I don't disagree with anything you think you said. I just kind of think it's a narrow definition because there's off track through the lens of like the GM who's got hired. And I think that you're right about that. Ryan Poles coming in and be like,

wow, this is disgusting. It's a mess. And you just start with the basics of like, oh, I'll just dump out the beer cans and like put stuff.

It's still a mess when you clean up the initial round. But if you just look at are the bears on track? Absolutely not. Like Ryan Poles is doing his best. But for fans just looking at the logo who don't care about

who has to clean up the mess, you just look at the house. You're like, This place is disgusting. They have one of the worst offensive lines in the league, one of the worst receiving cores in the league. And I actually think they both got worse this offseason. The front seven certainly got worse.

They got rid of Khalil Mack. They got rid of Ekeem Hicks. I get that that had to be done. But when you're looking at this, I think Bears fans are probably viewing this through the lens of Justin Fields. They haven't had a quarterback in 30, 40 or 80 years, depending on how you count. And it's like Justin Fields was the guy who was supposed to change that.

And he, as bad of a situation as he was in last year, I don't know if he's in a better one this year. And like that to me is like the definition of off track. Yeah. Fields is what makes it really tough because like this, the roster is bad. But like I go back to that 2019 Dolphins team, right, first year of Flores when it was like, all right, they are so clearly going to tank. And you look at that starting roster, right?

And it's like, all right, we got Kalin Belage running it. Alan Hurons is catching it. We got Avery Moore. Moss and the other guy, Samson something, rushing the passer. It was abysmal roster. And they start 0 and 7 and they finished year 5 and 4, which is a lot to close his credit. And obviously, we now know a lot about what was going on behind the scenes there in Miami.

But in general, like, that roster was horrible. But they were on track because the plan was to be terrible. It's just for that team they had fits. But I don't think that's the dolphins. That's the Houston Texans because the dolphins had an expansion team three years ago in 2019. The Texans are the team now with the expansion team. But the dolphins didn't have like a quarterback at that time where they're like, oh.

The dolphins, the dolphin's timeline there was not out of sync with. Yes. The goal was to get to a. The goal was to get to a. Yeah, that's the difference. And that's what makes it frustrating and difficult. So if it's off track because they have the quarterback and now they're tanking the roster, I would 100% hear that.

And you made the really good point in hype. It's where it's like, that makes the bears off track. I want to cheese this by being like, well, no, it makes Ryan. Pace off track. But Ryan Pace was the Bears and the Bears were still doing those ramifications. Yeah. So it's kind of like, I think Ryan Poles, who received a lot of criticism on draft night,

had a little bit more defensible of an approach than a lot of people are representing it as certainly as I feel it should be because I love Justin Fields and I want him to be good. But yeah, like the Bears are net off track because of the decisions made by ownership to let Ryan Pace hang around. That makes a lot of sense to me. I'll move on. Well, I was compelled by your argument. And look, if we can give Bears fans some hope,

I think that's the thing worth doing. I just, quarterback is the most important position in the NFL. It is arguably the most important position in sports. Justin Fields is not a perfect quarterback, but if he was the young quarterback on a team that I rooted for, I would be more happy than not that that was the case. And I think it's pretty scary. to see the new regime handed an undeniably super crappy situation,

but wind up saying, look, we were dealt a bad hand. And if that means that Justin Fields has to go into the season with Darnel Mooney, Equanimia St. Brown, Byron Prynge, Dante Pettis, and David Moore. And a very old, very, very, very old. old draft pick. If a guy can't make it in the past call to ask you. I'm not thrilled about what that signals. Hold up right now. I want to elaborate what Nora just said.

Like, I just, if you just look at the Bears roster and you actually look at who's going to be catching passes for Justin Fields this year, it is just a collection. I do a lot of fantasy football during the NFL season. It is guys that if you're in a 12, maybe a 14 team league, these guys are not on rosters.

Equanimia St. Brown, Taje Sharp, Byron Pringle, Pettis, as you just said, all those guys are not rostered in any size of fantasy football league that's ever been done. Taj Sharp. It is a really spectacularly bad wide receiver. How are they supposed to evaluate Justin Fields? In a way that, like, truly, if they had, I don't know, taken a George Pickens, a Sky Moore

as just a look, we don't have a lot of options, but this is what we can do for you, Justin. We're sorry, it would make me feel meaningfully better. And that's why, like, the way Poles approach offseason leading up to the draft, they'll like, all right, I see the vision. And then when you get the super old speedster from the SEC for his punt return value in the second round, as opposed to just taking like a massive swing on George Pickens coming off of the injury, on Skymore coming from a group of five program, like that at least is like, all right, this makes sense relative to the timeline, right?

We're trying to get a guy in here who, you know, it's a second round receiver, so it's not super likely he's amazing, but there's usually one of, amazing second round receiver a year. Let's just take a swing at the plate. See if we can hit on that. That'd be sick. That would help accelerate our timeline. Bealus Jones is not that.

Bealus Jones is like, oh, we need a speedster and we also want to round out our return unit. That's the behavior of a contending team. You are the Chicago Bears. Don't do that. Do something better. So, wait, so now we're putting the Bears, Panthers, Jags, and that off track.

Steelers in a weird one. You said one team was like half and half. Can I guess which team you didn't know what to give a category? Go ahead. Was it the Texans? No. You said the Texans are an expansion roster, right? I would have agreed with you last season.

This season, the Texans are rounding out this roster, I think, fairly well. Like, again, are Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison and Marlon Mack and whatever, like, you know, an extended for Brandon Cooks? Are these like the cornerstones of the healthiest franchise in league? No, these are like middle tier veterans, you know what I mean? like guys are a little bit older. But still, they are plugging gaps in the roster.

They're still going to give young guys the opportunity to fight and win jobs, right? Like Christian Kirksey is not going to prevent Christian Harris from getting reps. You know what I mean? Like they're still going to be in a developmental place. But in my opinion, they have done the appropriate thing

in terms of inundating the roster with young talent and then middle tier veterans who might be able to hold things down for a little bit longer than we expected or might have better legs than be expected as a certain position or in a new role or whatever. And so the taxes are still certainly an offseason away.

They're kind of like, you know, what we would maybe hope the Brown, or the Bears, excuse me, would have been after this off season in the sense of like they were super discombobulated with head coaching and general managing. So it was the same person, it was Bill O'Brien, a couple of seasons ago, and they had to kind of slow things down, take a really bad year, take a gap year,

and now they kind of have young, potentially fine talent in a bunch of spots. We're going to kind of see what this looks like over the course next season. that to me is like that that long arc rebuild where the roster is so devastated that you can't just snap your fingers over one year and turn it around this is what the outcome of that should look like. It's not exciting.

It's not thrilling by any stretch of imagination. But there's solid to good players in a lot of spots and you're starting to figure out who our franchise guys are and who they aren't. They're at the start of the trap, but they're on it. That's how I felt about them. I didn't want to put them in off-season and I don't think they're off-track

because of everything you guys just said. But putting them in an offseason away felt funny. I had them as two off seasons away from being two off seasons away because it's what it feels like their track is. Right. That's what it is right now. Right now it feels like that's how it feels. And I think the hope is that at the end of this season,

they're able to sit down and they're able to go, you know what? Derek Stingley is a franchise cornerstone player. Like this is like this guy can be like defining for us relative to the next five years. And then they can look at like Nico Collins, where it was a third round pick last year. I thought played fairly well at receiver. and say, Collins is a clear start of our opposite Brandon Cokes.

We now don't have to address receiver. And you just start to knock some of the positions off your board that you have to continue addressing. You see what I'm saying? All right. So let's give a Nico Collins take. So we got to move on. Danny Hyphitz.

Give us your offseason away teams. So again, I interpret this as an offseason away from, can this team win the division? And like really truly expect to win the division. I like that. Because we're talking about rebuilding teams. And definitionally, there are not a lot of rebuilding teams

ready to contend for a Super Bowl. So I'm with you on that. So I have the Giants. I have the Jets. I have the Falcons. And then again, the Texans I put in their own category, two off-seasons away,

two off-seasons away. And I actually, I'll put the Lions. The Lions is kind of also maybe in that middle category, but I think they're more appropriate here than anywhere else. But really, the Giants, Jets, Falcons,

I will say fully with my chest. I think those teams are an offseason away. I can elaborate in any of those that you want. So talk to me about your hometown New York Giants. What is the path here? Well, I think that it's really important to recognize the path they're already on. The Giants have the worst record in the NFL in the last five years. They have 100 losses in the last 10 years.

And three months ago, the Giants were the laughing stock of the entire league. Or sorry, four months ago, I guess we're in May now. That's crazy. Four months ago, if I can remind you, Jake Fromm, was starting for the Giants, and on third and nine, did a quarterback sneak at their four-yard line, like their own four-yard line on third and nine,

because Joe Judge was so worried that they would get a safety just by dropping back. Like they, you don't see that in high school football. They were literally, and I mean this, this is like the ultimate insult you could give an NFL team, and I would say to their face. The Giants were not a competitive football team in December or,

January of last year. And since then, in just four months, they fired the GM Dave Gettelman, they fired Coach Joe Judge. They have declined the option for Daniel Jones. They brought in the Buffalo Brain Trust that turned Josh Allen from a laughing stock quarterback into like, you know, the guy that everyone wants and oversaw like the biggest turnaround. They hired those guys to run the team. And then those teams went and got Kavon Tibido from Oregon, the pass rusher, Evan Neal from Alabama that tackle, who if you just look back at all the mock drafts in January, we're literally the first two players off the board of like every mock draft. So I sail that to make this point.

There is no, if all the possible outcomes from the Giants, when they were like quarterback sneaking on third and nine, the Giants are currently on the best possible path from that day to today. And so I don't know where they're going, but if you consider the division, there is not a better path they could have taken over less four months than what they have already done. Ben, is there a better path for the Giants than the road currently being

traveled? No, I agree with Hayez. I think it's good. I brought up their cap situation relative to the Bears' cap situation and the different approaches earlier. The Giants could have decided this year to take massive dead cap hits and clean house, right? Like, they obviously, Daniel Jones one more year, they're probably going to keep him, whatever. But like, Sequins on one more year, 7.2 million injured, hasn't been playing super well. We're not going to extend him. We're just

going to leave him there. Kennedy is making 21.5 million dollars. Whatever. We'll keep that on our roster for right now. they have the big defense line contract as well. Leonard Williams, who could be extended and see that money change a little bit. He's going to hang around. They have a Dori Jackson who's on big money. Whatever.

Fine. We're just going to leave all of these guys who are potentially leaving in 2023, Blake Martinez, at Julian Love. We're just going to sit and kind of take an evaluation year. We're going to let these good players hang around. And especially on offense, they're also going to help us figure out what our Daniel Jones situation might be. Because I don't think they're fully out on extending Daniel Jones.

I think they would like to see what he looks like with a new offensive coordinator in a new offensive approach. And if it's okay, maybe we'll let him hang around. So they could have, like James Bradbury everybody, but instead they just James Bradbury, James Bradbury, go birds. And now they kind of have this, this year in which to do some evaluation, see who

they want to extend and restructure, see what they want to potentially move on from and build the team out from there. And so I do think they're an obvious season away. I do think they're on the correct track. I love the hires that they've made as well, which to me puts them in a positive way. Another team that is doing, taking sort of the alternate path and eating a lot of dead cat money this year is the Falcons. Ben, were they also on your offseason away list? Falcons aren't offseason away.

And I think the Falcons are a good example of why it is important to understand in what year, at what time do we have to kind of sit on our hands and accept the fact that we have to let the mistakes of the past front office, the past guard unraveled. because in year one of Terry Fonton and Arthur Smith, they should have full sended just letting contracts play out, taking some dead money on the chin, and accepting the fact they were going to be bad. This team traded Julio Jones. Keep the contracts into the sun, as some might say.

They extended Huio, or they extended Matt Ryan, restructured to Matt Ryan and traded Julio Jones within like a month of each other. That is objectively bad business. because it just those two things pull in such opposite directions that it doesn't matter which way you're trying to head, you did something wrong because they're polar opposites. So now, right, you're in a position where you have to take a bigger

Matt Ryan dead cap hit this year and you got less, yeah, back in trade value. The single biggest caput for any player in the entire league is Matt Ryan who will not be in the Falcons. Yes, with that, I'm reaching the point where I think we're going to see a single biggest cap hit like every single year for the rest of forever. You know what I mean? We've broken that record like three times in the last three years.

But right, this year, Matt Ryan wears the crown of I'm getting a bajillion dollars from a team I'm not playing for. Like it's bigger than what the chiefs are going to pay. The bigger than the chiefs cap it for Patrick Mahomes is the Matt Ryan caput for the Falcons, who he's not on. I would bet. And to Ben's earlier point about just sort of conflicting strategies, yes, that's true.

It does seem like we're getting a record broken in this area. every year. Matt Ryan probably had more value in the moment when they chose to take that on than Jared Goff or Carson Woods did in the moments when their teams did the same. I mean, the Eagles

traded Wentz for more than... Both those guys were coming off for Super Bowl loss. We're talking about the dead cap at the time of the trade, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, literally the Colts traded more for once than they did for Ryan a year

later. So it's... Right. So it is... So maybe... That's fair. But you also get... I guess what I mean by that is I just think better of Matt Ryan.

I agree, right? I also would trade more for Matt Ryan and be more willing to take on a larger cap, et cetera, et cetera. I think the weird part of the Falcons being an offseason away is like, I mean, you look at, again, I look at this as a division. We talked about the Panthers. Matt Roll bless his heart. They're going to be rebuilding again next off season.

The Saints, you know, I stupidly believe in them a little bit, but Solac is probably correct that the Saints kind of seem primed to possibly implode this year into next offseason. The Bucks, if they lose Tom Brady, will certainly implode next off season. The Falcons kind of can just sit pretty. And if Des, I, I, I, Solac has radicalized me into believing Desmond Ritter can be a story. Let's go, baby. They've got enough of a core of, even if Calver really gets traded, gets something for him next year. And then you still got Kyle Pitts, who's incredible. You've got Drake Ludden, who hopefully is incredible. You've got it, you know, Chris Lindstrom in the offensive line, Grady Jerry on the defense. They have it enough.

assembling a group of large men. Yeah, they have enough people there that if Desmond Ritter actually can play quarterback or Marcus Marotta doesn't suck, if the Bucks and Saints implode, they could totally compete for the tradition next year. Yeah, that big men comment is an important one, not just because I like big football players are fun. Big healthy young men. Healthy young men.

But when you look at how teams get built, right, there are, are coaches and general managers who very clearly have a certain philosophy about how their team must be built, we're going to play the way they want to play. Matt Iber. The Falcons philosophy is to be the Titans. Yeah, right, exactly. So the best example is Arthur Smith, who very

clearly just thinks if you are smaller than he is, you can't play for him. It's just like, I just need, I need right, Matt Brable, John Robinson, Arthur Smith, they're all just like back in there in Tennessee, they're like, we're just going to be as huge as possible. That seems good. And they're winning some games. Works for them. Honestly, I kind of respect the strategy. Absolutely.

You need guardrails. You need a way to say when you're faced with a pool of 800 draft people or 200 free agents, how are we going to window down to figure out who we want to look at? And the Titans said, well, who are the big ones? Because those are the ones that we're going to look at. Who's large? Yeah. It's kind of like when you go to dinner and you're like, well, I'm not ordering chicken.

I can make that at home. And you don't even look. It's like they're not even there. The people smaller than me. I don't even see them. You got to get vision. So for the Falcons and for Arthur Smith and Terry Fontenow to adopt a roster that was left behind by Thomas Demetroff, the ex-general manager of the Falcons,

who prioritized very heavily put athletic testing, particularly the agility, right? Look at the way this offensive line is built, and they're drafting Matt Hennessy, right? They're drafting Chris Lindstrom. These are not big dudes. That does not jive with Arthur Smith. That means things take a little bit longer.

Relative to somewhere like I think the bills taking over the Giants is a spot where the bills just believe in, we're going to, like, offensive with Ryan Dable. We're just going to, spread and shred. You can dime a dozen that a little bit. You can get Isaiah McKenzie into the building, right? There's a lot of five, nine receivers with speed just kind of sit around. We can just go grab one

and move. You know what I mean? You kind of get to react a little bit quicker. So the Falcons get put on a little bit of a slower timeline because it's very clear that their head coach believes if they are not large, I cannot play them. Why is it so funny? That's football. It's dumb. It's awesome. It's like very, very goofy. Okay.

So that's the Falcons. Ben, was there anybody that you had an offseason away that Danny did not mention. So, right, my full off-season away were the Giants, the Texans, the lions, obviously the bears we kind of debated it a little bit. And then I had the Falcons as well. The team that's my question mark is the New York... Can I guess? Go ahead. Oh, I was going to guess wrong. I was going to guess it was the Eagles.

No, I mean, the Eagles, I mean, I put the Eagles ready to compete because I want to, but also, we've got to be honest about this team. We're going to live out of control with the hype. The New York Jets are my team where they are just a massive question mark for me and the reason for that is very simple. I am just, I've yet to see it from Zach Wilson that makes me really believe it. Wasn't a big Zach Wilson fan coming out of BYU,

wasn't a big fan of what he did in year one. Had his best stretch late in the season. We love that. That's, you know, a good building block. Jets fans are like, let's see. What do we want to see? Yeah, Jets fans are like, let's see two good games in December. He's a starter.

That's not how that works, man. Trevor Simeon had two good games in December once. remember that? Like this, we gotta, you know, there's a little bit more we got to get under our belt here. So we're Sean Fennessey's just nodding. Yeah. And so the thing is, uh, like,

I imagine Jets fans will be a little bit upset about this, but also like, it's not anything about Joe Douglas, who I think deserves a little bit more scrutiny and how he's built the team. And it's not anything about Sala, who I like quite a bit. It's just very simply, I struggle to place them because they've made the investments

at receiver and they've made the investments in the offensive line. And they've been aggressive drafting and a bunch of stuff that you like, I just don't know if they have the right quarterback. And if I think you don't have the right quarterback, you're kind of nowhere. You know what I mean? Like you're doing the right things to help improve him and you're running the system to help protect him,

but I also just don't think he's the guy. And so I very much struggle to orient myself in the Jets simply because of my Zach Wilson opinions going back for last couple years. I actually completely agree with everything you just said because I think I also just don't believe in Zach Wilson. And if Zach Wilson's great, every Jets fan I know in real life

and every Jets fan of this can, just shred me forever. I don't think he's very good. But I just, I don't think Zach Wilson is good. And I don't think he's the guy exactly, as you said, So lack for like a variety of reasons we don't have to get into right now. But I will say that in terms of this exercise, like, are the Jets ready to compete? My mind for the division, Buffalo's there?

No. Patriots, no, they're not. But this season is a success for the Jets if Zach Wilson's good. And in the world where, you know, maybe I'm wrong, if Zach Wilson is capable of being good, I think we will find out this year. And if he is, they're the definition of a team that's an offseason away. Because if Zach Wilson's good, then, yeah, you know what, it's time for the Jets to try to make a serious playoff run. And so we're going to at least make the playoffs.

I guess let's just start there. I, but I just don't think they will. But in the world where Zach Wilson's okay. They're an offseason away from something, right? It's either being a contender to make the playoffs, probably not. through a clear path to winning the division just because of how good Buffalo is. But they are a team that you see winning, you know,

10 games pretty easily and being in the picture. Or they're an off-season away from, because of the work that they've done to make the overall roster much better, they're an off-season away from knowing that they really don't have it at the quarterback position and kind of needing to be back at square one. So they're an off-season away from something,

Although I don't know why we're even talking about this because obviously all the Jets need to do is get both Connor McGoverns on the roster. Exactly. You need the Connor McGoverns in New York. Yeah. I would love to believe that the Jets could see a 7 and 9 season where Wilson has good flashes

but generally struggles. And some of their other young pieces come along nicely and give them the support they wanted to see. But Wilson just isn't fully there. And that they internally say, all right, he's probably not the guy. I would be surprised that they can pull that off. Number two overall pick with Joe Douglas likely feeling a little bit of heat

to make sure that he starts to deliver on some of these first round picks. I know I've talked about that a little bit pre-draft from Jets fans. Like, how dare you suggest that Joe Douglas have any job scrutiny whatsoever? I don't know, win a football game, then we'll talk. So I just think we could get to that point where the Jets are kind of middling. They like beat an AFC playoff team in week 14. They beat the Titans or something. And then Jets fans like, this is it, maybe here we go.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like I, I watched this team do this exact timeline with Sam Donald, where it was like, dude, watch these 15 throws that Sam Donald made random times a week eight in the third quarter down 21. He's going to be good.

And it's like, fellas, you got to, you got to want for more in your life. I think where I disagree with you, though, I feel like I see what you're saying where Joe Douglas deserves a little more scrutiny. But I disagree. I actually think what's really going to happen is if Zach Wilson doesn't make progress is that Michael Fleur,

the Jets Office coordinator, would be fired. That's the person actually on the hot seat. I do not see the Jets giving up with Joe Douglas, especially after turn Jamal Adams into those two first-round picks. That would be stunning.

And I don't see Robert Sala getting fired. I think that the reality is Mike Lafleur, who is the passing game coordinator for Kyle Shannon and the 49ers, which, you know, I mean, there's one thing to come up in Shanahan's system. It's another to actually call the plays

and develop a quarterback. They don't run Shannon's offense there. You know what I mean? They run Leflaw's like Leflaw's offense, right? So I heard you say, yeah. Basically, I just, I will just say he was not like the most experienced person to come in and develop Zach Wilson.

And then, look, there was also a lot of road bumps. I mean, Greg Knapp, who was supposed to be the experienced guy and during the quarterbacks coach with Zach Wilson's rookie year, he passed away, like right before training camp last season. Like, the Jets have had bumps. But I think that if Zach Wilson has two years in a row, they're disappointing,

Michael Flores, the person's been fired. I think Joe Douglas and Sala and everyone will stay there. For sure. All right. I think we've, so my list was the same as Danny's plus the Steelers who we talked about. So shall we talk about some teams that we think are ready to compete here? Maybe Ben, you want to kick us off and talk about the Eagles? Yeah, okay. So the two teams that I had is ready to compete were the Lions and the Broncos. I have the, or excuse me, the Eagles and the Broncos. I have the Lions.

Sorry, my bet, my bet. The Lions type is so out of control. The Lion's hype is so out of control. it's ridiculous. And because the Lions hype is so out of control, the Eagles hype, which is absolutely getting out of control, does it look as out of it?

It's a sneaky, sneaky out of control. The Eagles had a disaster, an embarrassment of a defense last year. They had a first year coordinator in Jonathan Gannon, who came from the Matt Iberfluse and Mike Zimmertrees, wanted to live in a too high world,

did not have the tools on the roster to do it, taking over to Jim Sports defense that was not built to do so. they have taken substantial strides to give him the tools necessary to run that defense. Jordan Davis, first round pick, nose tackle, two gap are going to make the numbers

work in the running game. Hassan Reddick, Sam linebacker, Anthony Barr in Minnesota. It's going to be able to rush, he's going to be able to drop. They're going to be able to run odd front, odd space, and stuff exactly what you need. They just signed James Bradbury, one year, 10 million.

Is Bradbury the guy who was in 2020? Probably not. Is he better than every corner the Eagles of Harvard last four years not named Darius Slay? Yes, this is the best corner two the Eagles have had since Sheldon Brown, man. This is like they do not invest enough in this position,

and they kind of had a great tradeable fall into their laps. Again, he might have be 2020, Bradbury, but he's more than sufficient for what the Eagles need. Nikobe Gene in their third round, Kaiser White. They have some more bodies at linebacker. I'm not as sold that that's going to work, but whatever. Safety is still question mark, but in general, they have improved on all three levels of the defense

to be able to run what they want to run. And then offensively, where they were clearly a good enough team to make the playoffs last year to beat some bad teams, teams. They have another year of Jalen Hertz. They have a second season for Devante Smith, and critically they have the Asia Brown acquisition. One of the best moves to draft night. It's going to give them a target

over the middle of the field, going to give them a true receiver run, give them a big body because they have a lot of small bodies of receiver. All of the soft season stuff is great. They're probably still not actually a contending team. And it's because of the loud part about Jalen Hertz that we try to generally keep quiet, which is that playoff defenses really don't fear him as a passer. that game against Tampa Bay was eye-opening in the wild card round. Todd Bowles and the Tampa Bay defense just did not think he could out throw them.

I've never seen such a disrespectful defensive game plan in a playoff setting. But it's like, oh, yeah, well, that guy can't throw it on us. Let's just stop the running game and then we win. Like, it was a game plan that took an hour. You know what I mean? It was like watching all of the teams play the Steelers for the last two years. Right. It was just just no interest in having to defend the middle of the field,

no interest having to defend the deep posts, like stuff that you should be scared of, they just weren't scared of. So if Hertz can get that, sure, it's a contending team. I just don't think he can. And much like Zach Wilson, I've never really thought he can coming out of Oklahoma after his first year in Philly. I was never really fully there.

And while he has continued to improve, I'm still not fully there. So they are ready to compete with an asterisk, which is we have to continue to prognosticate development and growth for a quarterback who admittedly has an incredible work ethic has grown a ton over the last five years of his life, but probably still isn't going to suddenly start to make these throws that he's just never made at the NFL level in year three. And so ready to compete, but we should probably, you know, tap the horse reins a little bit because this wagon's getting out of control. I kind of think that's kind of cute because I feel like I just watched you like talk yourself down where you're like, hold on, hold on, Ben. No, we're not going to win the Super Bowl.

I have a tweet from like a couple weeks ago. I was like, I'm so ready to participate in all unnecessary out of control Eagles hype and then just completely safe face on like August 15th, like right before like the season starts. can you like do that again but instead of competing for a Super Bowl just can this team win the NFC East this year and just do that again but optimistically? Because as a giant like if you're the Eagles I'm looking at this and I'm like

well the Cowboys literally got worse and now Washington has Carson Wentz so if you're the Eagles you're looking at this you're like why how can that we not win the division? Yeah I think they can and they weren't favored after draft night they're still not favorite the Cowboys are a slight favorite I think they should be the favorite to win the division

They have a better trenches than the Cowboys on both sides. The Cowboys are going to have some, I think, expected and understandable defensive regression after living off of turnovers last year. The Cowboys had changes of the guard at wide receiver as well, which is going to introduce some uncertainty into their passing game. The Eagles look better than the Cowboys. With that set, because I'm not doing the full optimism thing, the Cowboys quarterback is clearly better.

And when push comes to shove and we get two teams, you know, write a game or two above 500 with four games left, you really generally prefer to be on the side of the team of the better quarterback. That's just how the rules of the league tend to go. And so I think coaching staff-wise, the Eagles are better. I think roster-wise, the Eagles are better. I think roster-wise the Eagles are better. I think youth and Cap-healthy.

The Eagles are better everywhere. I also think DAC is markedly, measurably, demonstrably better than Jalen Hertz. And if the Cowboys win the division, that'll be why. Prediction, we are not going to hold you to whatsoever. But just for fun, Ben, how does this Eagles season end? 11 and 6 win the division losing the wildcard round again. They're going to face the

the second best team from the NFC West as the five seed when they're the four seed or they're going to face the second best team from the NFC South? No, hopefully the NFC West. Otherwise, they're winning a playoff game. So they're going to place the second best team from the NFC West in round one.

They're going to get beat by the Niners or the Rams or the Cardinals, whoever it is. I think that's on the... Go birds. Yeah, baby. Then we're going to go get Kyler and we're going to be 12 and 5 and do the exact same thing.

It's beautiful. It's a beautiful story. Bring me your short Oklahoma quarterbacks. All right. I've got to imagine that we're all in agreement about the most ready to compete team on this list is the Denver Broncos. Danny,

can you tell us sort of what trajectory you see them as being on? Yeah, I mean, if we're being honest, I don't know if this is a rebuild. Like, they're probably, like, they're here technically. I think the reality is they brought, the rush trade is to compete with Kansas City. I mean, sticking with this. I know we want to jump right to kick in the Broncos with the Super Bowl,

but the reality is I'm sticking with the division thing. Did you guys know the Broncos have not beaten the Chiefs since September 2015? And the quarterback was not Manning, right? It was Osweiler. Oh, I got to check that. My little fun fact was like the same day they beat them. Jeb Bush was debating Donald Trump in the Republican primary. Oh, my God.

That's how long ago this was. Is that a fun fact? No, it was Manning. 13 games in a row. No, it was. Chiefs have beat in the Bronx. Yes, it was Manning, and then they played him with Osweiler later that season. There you go. There's only matters to me. Yes. Patent Manning beat the Chiefs. And Peyton Manning has then waited five years and then been

inducted to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. We played another season and the Chiefs have still not lost to the Broncos since then. That's how long it's been. This trade, I think, externally, we're like, oh, Broncos Super Bowl. Internally, it's to beat the freaking Chiefs. I love that Ben Sulla's impulse there was, how does Brock Osweiler fit into this anecdote? What is his place in this story? Because Osweiler was the Manning to Chief, 2015 was the Manning to Osweiler years.

So I was like, how hilarious would it be if the last time the Broncos be the Chiefs was Osweiler, which Osweiler was all worth it. It was his first start in 2015. The Broncos were 7 and 1. They lost to the Chiefs, 29 to 13,

Brock Osweiler threw for 146 yards, one touchdown, one interception. Shout out Brock. Shouts. Two years later, he would be traded for money from the Browns to the Texas. I remember Brock Osweiler, because he was like 6'8, right? They brought him

out to try to block a field goal once. I remember this vividly that someone was trying like a 50 plus, like a 55-yard field goal. And they brought him out just to jump. They wanted this 6'8 person with long arms to just jump and obviously he didn't come close. And I've always wondered, like, if he had done that and been really good at that,

like what would have happened? Seven-brown pick of the NFL draft, Taco Fall, baby. Yeah. Like, would people just start having six-foot-eight guys just come out and like block field goals? Designated long field goal kick blocker. The D-F-G-L-K-P B of the roster. He had a better, Brock Oswald, I had a better chance at being good at that than people. I don't know how we're talking about this.

On that note. Let's see. Have we missed any, I think that's a pretty comprehensive list. We didn't really touch them the Lions. Not really. Yeah. I had them in off-season away. I think we all basically did. Yeah.

And yeah, I think for everybody who's placed their Detroit Lions to make the playoffs plus 400 bets, sure. That's fun. They don't have a quarterback. I love what they're doing. Everything what they're doing is great. They're crushing. I think, yeah, so I will say this about the Lions. I'll give them this.

I think that we're now in this era where we've almost transitioned from get the quarterback figure everything else out later to like actually if you can swing it, it's pretty great to build everything and then try to have a quarterback come to you. And like, you know,

we're seeing varying degrees of success, but like the Rams built it traded, got Stafford that work. The Bucks built it, thought they were building it around James. Brady came. They won. The Rams really built it around golf

and they're like, ah, and they swap in Stafford. And then you're seeing Broncos built it around five different guys. Russ comes in. And that's really what teams want, right? Teams really are kind of like building a bird's nest and they're hoping they get a really pretty bird

to come in and like their nest. I'll come here. And we talk, the obvious ones. But watching documentaries? We've been watching some David Attenborough? I love David Attenborough so much. Craig and I literally did a podcast on Planet Earth too. For, I think it was a person.

I saw us an invite next time, man. Dude, I love David Atte. There's a new one coming out on Apple. It's like Jurassic something, I haven't seen a average. David Adder. I cannot wait. Anyway, it's the bird nest.

That's all these teams are. They're like, come, come, stop it and stay. The Eagles, ironically, birds nest are like the obvious one, right? Because they're not Jalen Hertz. Look at all these players. The lions quietly are building a fantastic bird's nest because they quietly have like a pretty good offensive line that gets no credit.

There you know. Because no one cares if Jared Goff gets tackled. But like, Benet Sewell. And then you've got Taylor Deckerla. at Taylor Decker at tackles Frank Ragnon. Like, they're very good offensive line. And now their skill guys are freaking D'Andre Swift, Amon Ross St. Brown,

T.J. Hawkinson, they signed DJ Shark. Like, Dan Campbell seems like a fun guy to play for. Like, unlike way too much, you know, creatine and caffeine. But, like, this is quietly... A pretty bird's nest. It's a good place for a veteran quarterback to go if you want to compete,

especially if Aaron Rogers would ever leave Green Bay. we're retired. Right. All right. Lovely. What a lovely birds' nest we've created here. Thank you. Thank you both for assessing

some rebuilds. Shall we try a new segment? It's exciting. It's very excited. What's the name from again? It's from rewatchables? No.

So Stephen Colbert on his old show used to have this segment called Better Know a District, where it would just be about like a random congressional district somewhere. And I thought it was very charming. Ah. So if it's doing units, I would like to pitch the name Absolute Units, especially within light of our conversation about the Atlanta Falcons roster. Yeah, I just feel like it's been done. Okay. I like Solac's name. All right. Well, so maybe we're renaming the segment in real time. but this is better-to-knowing unit,

aka Absolute Units, uh, Green Bay Packers Defense edition. So what we're going to do here is I'm going to hit you guys with some just basic biographical info about the Packers defense. And then, uh, Danny mentioned the rewatchables.

Kind of rewatchable style. We've just got a few categories. And we're all going to give, um, our answers to the calling card of the Packers defense. it's superpower and it's kryptonite. And hopefully we're all going to leave with a greater understanding and greater appreciation

of this very unit. What do you say, guys? I love it. Okay, cool. So, coordinator, Joe Barry, entering his second year, base is a three, four. Highest paid players, J.R. Alexander, just post extension, going to be earning $21 million a year.

Kenny Clark, Preston Smith, Devondre Campbell, Adrian Amos. Highest graded players last season, according to PFF, Roshan Gary, Devondre Campbell, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Russell Douglas. 2021 rankings, they were 13th in points allowed, 9th in yards allowed, 22nd in DVOA, 18th in EPA per play. allowed. So that's your basic picture of the Packers defense. Let's start with the calling card. Ben, what to you exemplifies the Packers defense? Drafting first rounders from the University of Georgia. Oh, no. So in all seriousness here, the Packers draft approach, especially in the first round,

gets a lot of Guff because they could draft receivers for Aaron Rogers and instead they do other things. But in the last two years, that other thing has been drafting a first round defensive player from the University of Georgia, which we like to joke and be like, oh, you know, it would be a good draft strategy. You just draft all the Georgia players. In this case, like, it actually kind of is working and makes sense for Green Bay, who when Green Bay was losing in the NFC championship games in, you know, 2019 to the Niners, it wasn't because Rogers needed another receiver. It was because Mike Patton didn't really have a good handle on this job and because they lacked talent on the defense. And so last draft, 2021, they took Eric Stokes, a corner out of Georgia. At the time, I don't think they thought they'd luck into Rousseau Douglas playing as well as he did, but they did. And that was a really important pick for them because it let them move off of Kevin King, who was a substantial liability for them, especially come playoff time.

This year, they have two first round picks, and what do they do? Clay Walker, lineback route of Georgia, Devante White, defensive tackle out of Georgia. They have invested very heavily first round picks in this defense, clearly with the idea, that Rogers offensively is enough for them and if they can round out the defense they'll be a complete balanced team that can make a playoff run. And if not for the fact that they forgot

the third unit, which is special teams, they would have had a proof of concept last year in the playoffs because this defense did not give up a touchdown of the San Francisco 49ers and they still lost that game. It's unlucky and why it's always tough

to read results out of wins losses in a one game series sort of a league the way the NFL is. But the calling card for the past Packers' defense has been there investing in high caliber athletes with high levels of production coming out of the SEC recently. This is a defense that is loaded at all three levels. I should have known that you would take a draft approach. I love that. Danny, what do you got?

So, I mean, this is true rewatchable's fashion to me because I don't really know what calling card is supposed to mean. I kind of took it as the- We're discovering together. Mine goes in a completely different direction. Well, I like to be able to shape it. So when I start calling card, I was like, what does that mean? and the way I thought of it was when the game starts and like Fox or CBS or someone has their little graphics to open up,

like you see the player card pop up. And I was like, well, who pops up for the card for the Packers? And it's Jire Alexander, the cornerback, and Roshan Gary, who is their edge rusher. And I think that these are two of them were underrated players. It's weird to think about underrated players being on the Packers, which are one of the five probably more popular teams in the entire league. But Alexander now is like the highest big defensive back in the NFL history,

which is kind of a fake title, but it is what it is. He's really good, is the point, and he can do a lot of different things. And Roshan Gary, honestly, wasn't like a bust to start. He just, you know, a lot, big expectations out of Michigan and then didn't immediately meet them. And now is actually like really, really, really good. And I think these are two dudes who just straight up will just get a lot more famous this season because I think that their hype and fame will start to catch up with their level of play, which there wasn't really enough oxygen for them to get any clout,

considering everything it was going on with Aaron Rogers last year, but I think this year they will. Starmakers. I like it.

All right. Well, what I went with was that this is not exactly pithy, but they rotate a lot of different coverages

and in particular that they end up asking a lot of the safeties and linebackers. So we've got Joe Barry, right, who worked under

Brandon's Daly with the Rams. Brandon's Daly, obviously being the inventor of Too High. but even though the Packers line up in a lot of two high shells, Barry is quite, quite often asking them to rotate pre-snap. They play a lot of cover three, decent amount of cover one,

some cover four, cover six, a lot of zone, which means two things that I kind of think of with this unit. One, you're playing against some confused quarterbacks. Very good. 18 interceptions last season. But then the second thing, and this is really what I wanted to drive at here, is that when I listed the highest paid players and the highest graded players, you're seeing a lot of safeties and linebackers relative to some other teams. And those safeties and linebackers in this defense need to be good enough to cover the middle of the field, which is why we see them up there on the salary sheet. And I think also why the draft class, Quay Walker in particular, is exciting.

So I think asking a decent amount of those guys is something that we see with similar defenses, but the Joe Barry iteration of the Packers defense, I think, in particular. Yeah. So that's my, that's my superpower for them. The superpower for this team is the way that they get to match up with their back five particularly. Right. When you get to start, Jaya Alexander, Eric Stokes, Rousul Douglas, Adrian Amos and Darnal Savage.

There's not a lot you can't cover. Rassul, if he is what he was last year, which you guys do that later. That's the best corner three in the league, period. And they get to put a first rounder in front of him and then the highest paid defense in the back in the league in front of him at corner. And the thing about Jair, especially,

is that you can put Jair in the nickel. He's comfy. He's at home. And that's really, really cool because you aren't going to get got by teams that try to hide their best player by sticking him in the slot. If it's a big guy, it's a little bit tricky.

I don't think they have a great tight end answer right now, like the Darren Walters and Travis Kelsey's of the world, but they just drafted a 240-pound linebacker. That wasn't an accident. That guy can run. So they're clearly hoping that that becomes a little bit of a thing for them there. But even then, you're living in a zone coverage world anyway. So if they're going to hide that player there, yeah, you can,

you don't have to tag him with Man cover. You can play his own cover. And then you can ask Adrian Amos to come down and playing the nickel, which is what they do. And Amos is dog-on good football player. Amos is one of the most underrated players in the league period. you. He very quietly was the better safety in Chicago with Eddie Jackson, and he's very quietly, he's not better than Donald Savage, but he's close. He's very good in Green Bay. And he's the guy

they have rotate down in the box and they have Savage player over the top. But Savage can also come down and play the nickel. He can play the slot. They are extremely multiple in the back five. If they hit on Quay. Because Campbell's good coverage linebacker, and I saw whatever. It's fine, great. He's not a liability. They don't have a clear safety three, right? They let Henry Black walk. they don't have a clear corner four, right? They let Chan and Sullivan walk. So they very clearly want to live in nickel. They want to play zone and play with two backers on the field at all times.

If they hit on Quay, good night. This is a really, really impressive back seven in terms of coverage. Right now the superpower is the back five. And the flexibility it gives you, the way you can get into different matchups, the depth that you have, the ability to play on the ball, everything. This secondary, starting secondary, one of if not the best in the league. who-hoo-hoo. Yeah, I mean,

that goes well with the superpower I had for the Packers was basically just finding value. Like they just find defensive value in all those players. I mean, Jire Alexander, again, I mean, pretty easily I'll conservative to say one of the 10 best quarterbacks in the league and probably a lot higher. I mean, they got him by trading back.

Like the Saints traded up to get Marcus Davenport. The Packers picked up a first-round pick and still got Gile Alexander. Yeah, and they traded back. then they traded up to go get Jair. Do you remember which team traded out of that pick? The Seahawks, I believe. And who did they go get instead?

Like Rashad Penny. Rashad Penny gave me. Let's go Seattle. It's so funny. But like, think of it. It's truly incredible, honestly. Think about it. But the Packers got your Alexander.

And then the next year, they have two first round picks. What do they do? They get Rishan Gary. And I think they picked up Darnhill Savage with the extra first round pick. Yes, sir. So he traded back, got Alexander Savage. And then, so that's what they're doing with their firsts. But they also signed Devandre Campbell last year for $2 million.

I mean, Devonja Campbell, $2 million was the number two linebacker on Pro Football Focus. He's probably the best free agent signing of like the last, I don't know, four or five years. And then you've also got, they just found guys the last few years to contribute. Like, for all the crap, Brian Gutikunz has got as their general manager, obviously he pissed off Aaron Rogers. Obviously, a lot of people, including me, gave him a lot of heat for that. But he's also just found people. Rizzole Douglas, as So like just mentioned. completed, you said what's the like,

probably the best cornerback trio in the NFL of Rizal Douglas is playing. Brazil Douglas was a million dollar signing last year. Like that is what? A 200th of the salary cap, right? They got chandon Sullivan, who had like a walk-off pick to end the game against the Cardinals. I forget

if it was Douglas or Sullivan, but he was fine for a little bit. The Packers are just good at finding value but still building a defense. Yeah. So the Packers have since 2012 drafted one first round player who's not on defense. He's an offensive player.

His name was Jordan Love, quarterback at Utah State. You may have heard of him. So going from 2012, you have Nick Perry, who's a pass rusher, generally a hit. Not amazing, but fine. DeTon Jones, nah. Ha, Clint Dix. Nah, 2014. Then we get to 2015. Demarius Randall. Definitely safety you hit.

He's no longer on the team. 2016 is Kenny Clark. 2018 is Jare Alexander. 2019 is Rashaun Gary and Darnel Savage. 2021 is Eric Stokes. 22 is Quay Walker, Devante Wyatt. They ain't missed. They have not missed.

But is that a mistake, though? No, that's what I'm saying. This goes back to my calling card of the scene. Like I said, first round Georgia players. But they have poured first round picks into this defense. And you do not find this level of track record where like the second worst pick is Nick Perry or Hatha Clint Dix anywhere.

The way that this front office has just constantly hit on first round picks on defense is unbelievable, which makes even more unbelievable how well Mike Patton screwed over this team for so many years. But now they have Joe Barry. It's fine. So that's a good segue for my superpower, which at least as far as last season was concerned,

was tackling. I have a little quiz for both of you. Who is the best tackling team in the NFL last season? the Packers, because you're saying it in the superpower section? Good guess, but they were second.

They were second by both, so they were second by both fewest miss tackles and by PFF grading. There's a different answer for who is in front of them in both cases. I will tell you which one is which,

but I will accept either answer. But Ben, you want to venture a guess? I'm going to guess the Patriots the Dolphys and the bills Dumb team That's stupid Well

Tampa's something Nope Who was it What about a dumb team That you hold Very near and dear Go birds Go birds

Wow The Philadelphia Eagles Friking Matt Aberflus Hustle intensity Integrity Love the game Diver the game Freckin whatever

So It is notable Just because Miss Tackles Used to be a huge huge issue For those Mike Petton

defenses But it turned into a huge string for the Packers last season. I don't know if that's totally a credit to Joe Barry, but he is really, really obsessed with using moving objects to drill tackling and practice. Doesn't think there's really any point in a tackling dummy that's actually a dummy because it's a dummy and it just sits there and real football players move, which I think there's some logic to that. But they only missed 87 tackles last season, only behind the Broncos. So the Eagles were the leader and the Eagles were the best tackling team in the NFL per PFF grading.

The Broncos had the fewest missed tackles. But the Packers were second in both categories. Again, if you play that much zone, important. Adrian Amos, very, very good tackler. Devondry Campbell, same goes. Roshan Gary, not too shabby. Pretty good stuff. I wonder if zone defense would just measure better in that period.

You got a zone defense you plan to tackle with man coverage. You don't really plan a tackle. where you plan to cover it. That's interesting. I was, yeah, I was thinking the same thing, actually.

Anyway, because the Eagles, listen, maybe the best tackling team last year, but I'm here to tell you, not a good defense. So I'm careful with these things.

Last category. The second you said, it's going to be some dumb team. Because it is. It's absolutely ridiculous that the Eagles are the best tackling team in the league. What's last category? Cryptonite.

Cryptonite. The scariest word in all of football. Regression. we have talked a lot about what Devondre Campbell and Rasul Douglas meant to this team and currently mean to this team. Yep. We were not talking about Devondre Campbell and Russell Douglas at this time last year because we did not think that this was going to be a thing that was happening.

And those are two really integral players to the Packers this year. The Packers have behind Devonter Campbell, they only have quays. First round rookie linebacker. I like to play coming out. Hope Quay is good, but obviously not really something you want to hang your hat on. They lived and died by Devonre Campbell. last year. He saved them out of everything. He was the only linebacker that was playable for them on base downs.

Campbell cannot, that was the best season Campbell's ever had. He cannot take a step back. Douglas, who like, oh, he's corner three. Yeah, he's a starter. Because they're obviously, when they're in their base, they're going to live with five down defensive linemen, two linebackers because they're an odd front. They're going to be able to pass rush with Gary on one side of press. On the other side who, Gary is another dude for regression because he's

coming off his best season, but generally I think Gary's just getting better. I like where he's at. they'll live with four defensive backs in base, but they're really not going to play base that much. They're going to have to play nickel a lot. Like I said, they do not have a safety freak, and they do not have a corner four. It's Shamar, John Charles, and Vernon Scott, I think,

who played like eight snaps last season. There is no depth behind Douglas. And so if Douglas regresses, which Douglas is a very aggressive player, he's a little bit in the Trevon Diggs family, where he's going to make a lot of players on the ball, but he's also going to make a lot of mistakes. If he catches some bad luck and comes back down,

earth where he was when he was bouncing from the Panthers or the Cardinals to the Eagles to whatever. They do not really have too much of an insurance plan behind him right now. So this defense is loaded stem to stern. I like the defense coordinator. I like their defense approach. A lot of reasons I have a lot of faith in the Packers defense this year. But

they do need a couple of veteran players who stepped up into huge roles for them to remain effective in those huge roles, which is a scary thing to have to rely on. I love the idea that they're loaded stem to stern. I love when Silic just throws boat terms out. It's a good. He's been fishing for a month.

A literative idiom, man. I think you're right. Like regression, I think is like a term people hate because they're like don't use math to tell me about my team. But all it's, I think I think you're right. So like all people are, all it really means is that like all these people giving you like their unbelievable best years might not happen again. And I think it's important to note because the Packers offense just regressed last year because in 2020, the Packers had the best red zone. Basically ever, four of every five trips to the Red Zone, they scored a touchdown. And we're like, oh, it's probably going to regress.

And Packers fans got mad. But like last year they did three out of five. And that doesn't sound like much, but it's the difference between the best year on record versus below average in just 2021. So I agree that there probably must be due for some level of regression and not just get career years from like five people. Was regression also your kryptonite, Danny? No. My kryptonite, maybe this is cheating, but I just chose the San Francisco 49ers. So did I.

Amen, brother. The 49ers the beat and knocked the Packers out of the playoffs four of the last 11 seasons. That's insane. The scariest. The Green Bay Packers go to sleep at night

and they dream nightmares of a man and a flat bread hat coming with the Grim Reaper. They had a beat. They beat them last year. And then the punting unit had to come onto the field. Unbelievable.

Yeah, maybe the Krypton Night is their own special team. Yes. You know how fantasy categorized it? I think they had 10 men on the field for that last, that last field goal. I mean, I do kind of buy that I think Kyle Shanhan does a little bit live a little rent-free in Matt LaFleur's head. And I just, yeah, it just must be insane.

Also, let's not forget that the 49ers are the team that took Alex Smith over Rogers and that Rogers hates with like an unholy fury. And the fact that this team, having moved on from Alex Smith, this all started really with Colin Kaepernick taking over Smith. And basically all the quarterbacks that have come after Alex Smith in succession, are the ones who beat Rogers is kind of like insane. It's like Shakespeare. Well, so there's also, this is a little facetious, right? Because the Packers losing to the 49ers for the last time

was not the fault of their defense, certainly. No, it's cheating, but it's funny. It's funny cheating, so we allow it. Also, there is not specific to that game, but there is a kernel of truth here where this defense, like a lot of good modern defenses, is essentially daring their opponents to run the ball. They play with a lot of light boxes.

And so the teams that are more likely to mess them up are the ones who are not upset by being asked to do that. Teams built like the San Francisco 49ers among them. I think it was Ben who mentioned that there are some issues with covering tight ends here. George Kittle is not a person who I want to be dealing with if I'm a member of the Green Bay Packers defense. That's not exactly a unique situation for an NFL defense.

but they had some issues with tight ends, had some issues against the run, 4.7 rushing yards per attempt allowed, which was 30th last season. They're just a bad run defense team in general, which is an okay thing to be, but it is the type of thing that if you get a bad matchup can hurt them,

it also makes the Devante Wyatt selection, I think, interesting because you do see them trying to mitigate, okay, well, who can we put there at defensive tackle who can just take up space and allow us to keep the configuration on the back that we want, but not be totally liable if we do face a team like San Francisco and Jimmy is less inclined just to try his hardest to hand the game away before the special teams unit decides to make that an impossibility. This was fun, guys. We got to know the unit. Absolutely. I feel like we know the unit very well. And you two were so lovely to do this that I think you deserve to get to rename the segment.

So thank you for joining for the first inaugural absolute units. Can we name the unit? Can we name the absolute unit instead? We just call it Connor McGovern. And we have two different segments called Connery McGovern. I think that's a little abstract, Danny. I'm not sure people would really know what they're. I'm not sure people know what we're doing anyway.

but I'm pretty sure if we just called the segment Connor McGovern, it might be a little bit harder to figure out. But we can do like a biweekly Connor McGovern check-in or something. The Connor McGovern index. We just check on who's taking over to the Connor McGovern. This week in Connor McGovern news.

Yeah. All right. This is Ben the Ringar Annabelle show. Thank you to Danny and Ben for joining me. We will be back next Wednesday. You can check out the Ringarrenfell show. fantasy football guide at fantasy football.orghumor.com.

Thank you to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to Arjuna Ram Gapal for additional production supervision.