The Ringer NFL Show - The Ripple Effects of Miami's Tampering Penalty

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

JJ and Sheil get together to share their reactions to the news of the suspensions and fines levied against the Miami Dolphins for illegal tampering. They dissect the NFL's ruling, discuss the Dolphins' history of dysfunction under owner Stephen Ross, and make their predictions on how it will affect the team going forward. Hosts: John Jastremski and Sheil Kapadia Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Production Assistance: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, it's Ariel Hawani, one-third of the fastest growing show in combat sports. I'm Chuck Mindenholm. And I'm Preeti Carroll, and together we are three-puck. Join us on the Spotify Live app after every UFC pay-per-view and become a part of the best community in mixed martial arts. Or if you can't make it, check out the Ringer MMA show podcast exclusively on Spotify. See you then. Love you. It's an emergency ringer NFL show, and they actually pull me out of New York, New York, and they pull me out of ring of gambling.

Welcome in, John J. Stremski, Sheal, Capadia. This is the first time we've ever met. And it's because my beloved football team, Sheel, is losing a bunch of draft picks today. How you doing today? What's having him, man? I mean, this is how bad teams stay bad.

So we'll see by the end of this. I'm going to be ripping the dolphins from every angle imaginable. And we'll see maybe you rethink some of your NFL choices by the end of this. But I don't know. We'll see. You've been pretty loyal this far. Yeah, sure, at this point, man, there's no turning back. I mean, it's been 20 years of misery.

They've been a whole lot of losing. They haven't won a playoff game in basically 20 years. But forget about all that for a second. So Brian Forrest leaves, as we know back in January. Brian Forrest had his issues with the National Football League, the hiring practices, all of that tied into one, and then throws out the allegation that he was told by Stephen Ross in a year in which the Miami Dolphins were trying to set up to get themselves, a quarterback, we are tanking games. We, you know, trying to give you that dangling carrot of,

hey, here's maybe a little added incentive to go in tank games. So you're waiting to see all this play out. Then there's this Brady stuff. There's this Sean Peyton stuff. So I guess for you right out of the gate, I, for one, was surprised because the tampering charges, I feel like, even though they were above and beyond, we see this a lot. This happens a lot. Maybe this is, above and beyond more so with Stephen Ross. But my big thing was because of Flores' allegation, because of the fact that maybe the NFL had something on Stephen Ross, this is the best way the Miami Dolphins,

and specifically this owner, end up being punished. Yeah, I think you're right. You know, you look at tampering in all professional sports leagues, the NFL included. It's like everybody's in the same circles. I mean, they're on the same islands. You know, remember Sean McVeigh and Matthew Stafford, like everybody runs together.

So you're thinking tampering, but I thought the line, you know, that they really stuck it to him, where he said tampering violations of unprecedented scope and severity. To me, translation, you have to be pretty damn stupid to get caught for tampering in the NFL. And you look at what the dolphins did. They tried tampering. They screwed up tampering. They didn't even get the guys they're trying to tamper for. They tried tanking.

They screwed up tanking. I know you're still on board with Tua. But anyway, you look at that. They get the fifth pick that last that year. Joe Burroughs first, Justin Herbert 6. No, I'd rather have Joe Burrow. We're not going to sugarcoat it. You know I'm still Team 2.

I'd rather have Joe Burrow, thousand percent. So all these things, they try. And again, this is why I say bad teams, organizations, stay bad. You can make up for a bad coach. You can make up for a bad GM, a bad quarterback. Those things have life cycles, three to five years. As a fan, you say, all right, we'll move on. When you have terrible ownership, and that's what the Dolphins have,

one playoff appearance in 13 years, then Stephen Ross took over the team. And then you screw up tampering, you screw up tanking. This is what you get. And as Dolphins fans, it's a hopeless feeling when your owner is at the root of the problem. And I think that was the situation here. You know, show it's pretty wild that going back to 2019, a year in which the dolphins are trying to tank to set themselves up for the number one pick in a draft, at the same time, you have Stephen Ross basically in the year of Tom Brady saying, Tommy, Tommy, you got to come.

come, you got to get a stake in ownership. You got to do this, you got to do that. To me, if you're going to tamper, you might as well do it right. You know what I mean? Like, if you're talking to Tom Brady, if you're promising Tom Brady a stake in ownership or you're promising him the moon and the stars or whatnot, then land a big fish for goodness sakes. What are we doing here?

That's exactly right. Yeah, they screw that. By the way, Tom Brady is a free agent at the end of the season. I mean, we'll just say that. We don't know what he wants to do, whether he's going to go into broadcasting or anything. But think about this. Think about a team that could not string together a playoff win since he took over the organization. And, you know, all the ideas we have in pre-all, you know, you can accumulate draft capital.

You can try to sign free agents. His big idea, let's tamper and try to get the greatest quarterback in NFL. Like that he was out of ideas. I mean, this was his only idea. Let's try to get Tom Brady, 2019. Let's try to get Tom Brady, 2021. I mean, that just speaks to me to the dysfunction of the organization that you have no other ideas. I mean, this is an organization.

They changed their mind every three minutes. First, it's Tom Brady, then it's Deshawn Watson, then it's Brian Flores, then it's Sean Peyton, then it's Mike McDaniel. Like every three months, they've got a new idea, and guess what? All their ideas are terrible. So you're right. I mean, if there was another scenario here where they land Tom Brady and Sean Payton and these tampering things don't get exposed here, you're probably feeling pretty good as a

Dolphins fan. But again, they couldn't even go that route. And now you look at it and you just have to have no faith. and kind of where this organization is going to go going forward. Yeah, but I still think they're in a good spot this year. I really do. I mean, really, based upon what? They go and they have a defense that they bring everybody back from last year,

everybody back. Now, they lose Brian Forres. How much of that was his baby? I have no idea. But it's a defense that can stop you at the cornerback spot. They can get after the passer. They're solid at safety. And, I mean, you look at those wide receivers.

I know it's a sexy position. I know you don't win at wide. receiver in the NFL. But she'll explain this to me. How are you going to guard Jalen Wano and Tyree Kill? Like that should be a team on paper that should go and be better than what they were each of the last two years where they had winning years. Am I right or am I wrong? Well, let's start with their, I mean, I have so much to dispute there with everything you've said. So let's start with just Tyree Kill. And I mean, Tyree Kill with a first year head coach, an unproven quarterback, South Beach and a monstrous contract. Oh yeah, what could go wrong? What could possibly go wrong?

All I'm thinking about is what's the over-under when Tyree-Kill has to be separated from a coach or is throwing the tablet on the sideline. I mean, I'll go week five. I don't know if you want to take the over or under on that. I'll take the over on that. Okay. I will take the over on that. I don't think that's going to work out very well. They address wide receiver, offensive line, still completely.

Why isn't it going to work out if he's getting the football and he's getting paid? I don't think he is going to get, though. I mean, what evidence do we have that he's going to get the football? He's Tyree Kill. Just get him the ball for goodness sakes. I'm not saying you got to get him. the ball 50 or 60 yards down the field. Get him the ball in space.

10 to 15 yards, bubble screens, whatever. Well, you're right. You make an investment like that. You will get him the ball. I'm just saying, hope so for the amount of money to pay them. They better get him the ball. But I think it's going to be a mediocre offense. I mean, they addressed the offensive line.

They signed Tehran Armstead, a good left tackle, missed nine games last year. And then they signed the Cowboys' worst starter last year. I mean, I don't see this as a big upgrade for one of the worst offensive lines than the NFL last year. Here's the deal with their offense. I think they're counting on one or two things. One is that you put these pieces around Tua and he makes a leap. That's possible.

It's possible that he makes a significant leap. I'm not there. Reasonable minds can disagree there. The other thing is Mike McDaniel becomes some version of Kyle Shanahan. You know, if he is a special offensive coach who can do more with less and say, hey, don't worry about these offensive line deficiencies. I can do more with less here. Then I think the dolphins have a chance to me.

This screams mediocre team. Seven or eight wins right where they've been for the last 12 or 13 years. But they have winning seasons in back-to-back seasons, right? And then they got rid of the coach. Listen, they beat up on a soft schedule last year. I'll be the first to tell you that. They were one in seven. Their season was over.

And they beat the Giants and the Jets and a bunch of lousy football teams. So no argument there. Two years ago, they won 10 games, though. So to me, they're a team that's ony up and up. I'm not saying Super Bowl good. But like when I look middle of the pack playoff team in the AFC, and it's a loaded AFC. But remember, you got the AFC West beating up on one another.

I mean, they're not going to, the odds that I'm sure are getting four teams into the playoffs are not particularly good. I mean, it's just, it doesn't work out that way. You're telling me, you can't see a scenario with the dolphins win nine or ten games? They could sneak in. Yeah, I think their ceiling is sneak into the playoffs and losing the wild card round, and then who knows what

they're going to do in the offseason if that happens. But their defense, I mean, you're right. They have unprecedented continuity on the defensive side of the ball. Not having Brian Flores matters. I mean, this guy is a schemer, a very smart defensive coach. I don't buy that. They're going to have no drop off there. By the way, healthiest defense in the NFL last year. Well, that's a big key. You know, when you lose guys,

and they didn't lose guys last year, it makes a difference. That is going to be tested, for sure. I mean, you're not going to get that most likely two years in a row. So I'm just, you're right. I'm not saying they're going to be the worst team in the NFL, but I'm skeptical of a major leap. I think they're going to be in that mediocre range. I mean, I would lead more towards seven or eight wins than nine or 10 wins, but if you tell me you think nine or 10 wins and they get a wildcard spot, I can buy that. But I just think they're going to be one of these organizations that's going to be stuck in the middle for a long time, changing their mind on what they want to do with no real plan. Football is right around the corner and Fanduil Sportsbook is here to help because right now

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1-800-2-2-470 in Wyoming, or visit www.wbund, www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. Here's what I can't figure out with Ross. So they're going to hand down this punishment. They're going to get on them for, you know, getting involved with Brady and getting involved with Trump-Payton. They don't want to drop the hammer.

apparently they don't want to go and take the leap about the idea that, hey, Stephen Ross wasn't responsible for the dolphins, you know, trying to tank games, blah, blah, blah. What kind of punishment is this? Like, to me, you either throw Ross out or you give them a much more severe penalty than this, or you don't give any penalty. Like, I looked at this penalty today, Shiel, and it was like, you had to take away a first-round pick. I know that's a big deal, especially which we'll get to in a little bit, if you want to move up in the draft.

was something you were thinking about next year. That's obviously now out the window. But doesn't it seem like a half-hearted penalty for Stephen Ross? Like to me, either go all in or you go to no extent as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it's hard with these types of things because there's not this great, you know, and I hate the word precedent in regards to the Sean Watson stuff. I don't think it fit there at all. But this is a situation where you're right. I mean, you could have seen that thing flashed across your phone and who knew it could have said they're getting four draft picks, Doc. It could have said they're finding him $7 million. You're right. It was kind of hard to wrap your head around. Wait, what makes sense? So it's a one and a half million dollars. The guy's worth, what, $8 billion,

I think. So I don't think that's going to hurt him that much. Oh, he's got to stay away from the team until what, week six or week seven. I mean, that's only going to improve the operation. If Dolphins fans are thinking I'm being too harsh and you want some encouragement, keep him out of the next. No, I have no issues there. You get on ownership. It's not something we're going to argue about because we're locking step there. I totally get that. Yeah. So that could help. I mean, you know what was the funniest thing? about this. I don't know if you laughed about this or not, but first the punishment comes down, then you have the Flores statement, then you have the Stephen Ross statement. And my guy is trying to

flex here after he just gets docked a million and a half and then draft picks and is a disaster situation. He opens up his statement with the independent investigation cleared our organization of any issues related to tanking and all of Brian Flores' other allegations. My guy, did you? I mean, There were penalties handed down here. It was called the biggest tampering issue under Roger Goodell's tenure. And he's coming out flex and saying, I got you, Brian Flores. See, they didn't dock me for that. So, I mean, I don't know.

There's a lot of comedy with some of these stuff with NFL ownerships and some of these issues. And that one had me laughing for sure. I got a fun hypothetical question for you because, listen, I think we could be living in either one of these worlds next year at this time. So I'm going to let you be the judge. I spend a lot of time on ringer gambling. I wager on a lot of different things. You'll learn this about me as the days and the weeks and the months go along. And, you know, maybe we'll have a side bet on the dolphin over under for the season.

But that's the story for a different day. What's more likely next year? Tom Brady is the Miami Dolphin starting quarterback. Brian Flores is a head coach for another team around the league. What's more likely? I would say Tom Brady. being the dolphins starting quarterback. I mean, Brian, listen.

And even though I'm a true believer, I agree with you. Because there's way too much smoke here. There's too much smoke. Yeah. I mean, this was from 2019 to 2021. This was when he was of the Patriots. Then you circle back. And now this will be another offseason where Tom Brady is going to have choices to make.

I mean, I think this is, you know, one of probably the biggest story in the NFL. If we want to look six months from now, what's the biggest story? Where's Tom Brady? Is he in the booth? Is he in the ownership box? Is he quarterbacking the bucks? Is he quarterbacking the Los Vegas Raiders? Well, the Niners.

How about the Niners? There's all these options out there. And so if there's a scenario where Tom Brady plays well this year, but he's not that thrilled with the situation, maybe they don't make a big run. And he says, all right, I'm not going to hang them up just yet. I made that mistake last off season. That to me is kind of hanging over the entire NFL this season.

And that is going to be juicy. and that is going to be a ton of fun to watch. And now look, the dolphins thought they were going to have two first round picks. And all I heard was, well, if this season goes south and Tua doesn't look like the guy, well, the dolphins would be well positioned to go and take their pick and the San Francisco pick and move up in the draft. I always thought that was a false narrative because of the amount of bad teams number one that are going to be at this draft and the amount of bad teams

that are going to need quarterbacks potentially. The Lions are going to need a quarterback. The Houston Texans are a team that's going to need a quarterback. Atlanta, Seattle, like there are already four teams off the top of my head where I say, they're bad, they're going to want quarterbacks.

Why are they going to move out of a position where they can go and get a quarterback? But that narrative was out there. Hey, Dolphins two first round picks. That's their insurance policy. Now when you lose that first round pick. I guess it's two or a boss unless we're talking Tom Brady next year. You always want that optionality, right?

You know, it could be trading up. You are right. I mean, a lot of times these teams that stink, they're going to be drafting in the top five, and you can make them any kind of offer you want. If they don't have a quarterback and Bryce Young or whoever they want is sitting there, they're going to go ahead and take that player. But, I mean, look at the Dolphins roster. I mean, they had four picks last year, none in the top 100.

Now they have, you know, they lose the first round pick next year. They were already without fourth and sixth round picks. They lose a third in 2024. I mean, you talk about building depth on your roster. Put the quarterback thing aside. It becomes a lot more difficult when you're losing all this draft capital and you don't get bites at the apple. But you are right. I mean, it's going to come down to quarterback.

They're going to have another decision to make there. Who knows what the coaching situation is going to look like. You know, maybe Mike McDaniel will be great and they'll kind of luck into that one. If it doesn't, we know the Sean Payton rumors around the league. What's the over for under for that? Week 7, whereas it's going to be these little 18. With Dallas, you're already there. Tampa Bay. So many different places with Sean Payton.

So many different places. And I don't know if you feel this way about McDaniel. I either feel like he is going to be a rock star head coach or he's going to be a monumental flop. I agree. I don't think there's any in between with Mike McDaniel. Like I think we're saying, hey, this guy rocks and he's going to be unbelievable or he just flat out stinks. I totally agree with you. I think that's absolutely right.

He's either going to be, and there have been players, you know, to his credit, they've been players who have played for him who have said this guy is, a brilliant offensive mind. Wait till you see him put in charge. And so there is that possibility that he is a brilliant offensive mind. But you're right. I mean, those things are taking selfies with the dolphins reporters and, you know, talking about the athleisure that he's rocking to these press conferences.

Those things don't get so cute when you're two and seven. I was going to say, I love the Yeezys right now and I love the selfie. I can't get enough. But if the dolphins stood off the season 0 and 4 and the offense stinks, I'm not going to care about EZs and selfies, dude. Just I'm not. 100%. Yep, no doubt about it.

So we need to draw up our wager. So you would go under eight and a half wins for the dolphins. Yeah, I'm going under, not by a lot. I think I've got them at eight and now. You know, I'm doing my finalizing my records. But you're not overly, you look at them as like, they're right on that cut line the way you look at it. I think that's right.

Yeah, I think they are mired in mediocrity. And those teams that are in mediocrity, what flips their season? It could be you get some good turnover luck, you get some good injury luck, one way or another, or the things we mentioned earlier with McDaniel and Tua. So, yeah, I think that, you know, they look to me on paper like a mediocre franchise, but what you said is right, maybe I shouldn't and I should just put all my chips in the table one way or another.

Is McDaniel going to be good or is he not going to be good? I just do think they're a team with a limited ceiling for sure. I don't think they're a Super Bowl contender. AFC's way too good. I'm taking them right around 9 or 10 wins, and for what it's worth, they're a better team than the Patriots. this year. Now, I know Belichick's there, and he's the best to ever do it. Like, I bowed down to the greatness of Bill Belichick, but that New England team, the defense loses Jackson, they played poorly down the stretch, their weapons stink. I don't know who's calling plays.

A lot of people give to a lot of crap, and I understand it. Matt Jones, to me, down a stretch of the year, I didn't exactly light the world on fire. Are you a patriot believer? Oh, my God, I can't believe you're going to make me. The last thing I wanted to do when I enjoyed the ringer was defend the Patriots in any kind of conversation. And here I am on my second episode on the ringer NFL show and you're boxing me into this corner where it's going to be like I'm kissing up to the bosses. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. I'm so embarrassed, but I'm going to have to go on record on the ringer anyway in the next couple weeks. I think the Patriots are a better team than the dolphins. I don't think you're wrong about

if you look at the roster, one to 53 that the dolphins are more talented. But come on, you got a coach, you don't know anything about against Bill Belichick. And, you know, I'm not like in love with Mack Jones, but Mac Jones had a better season last year than anything that Tua has shown so far. So even if he makes just a minor leap forward, I think their offense is probably going to be better position. They've got better talent on the offensive line than the dolphins have, oh, my God, I'm going to take a shower after.

This is disgusting. I can't believe you did this to me. I thought we were going to be good pals. I did not expect you to take sides against the family. You're taking sides with the podfather right out of the gate. It's all right, though. We still could break some bread anytime, any place anywhere. You know that.

You know that. All right, my friend. Absolutely. This is a ton of fun. Hey, listen, you got it. Shield down on the dolphins. I'm still in on the dolphins. I'm taking them over this year.

Too much offensive firepower. Boy wonder finds a way to nine or ten wins. Remember I said that show? You'll be thinking to me. Even if the dolphins get smoked and lose by 30 points in Baltimore Wildcar weekend, you'll remember this like early August conversation where after they lose a first round pick and it's Tom Brady and Trump

Peyton rumors. The loud New York guys still like them to make the playoffs. Listen, I have your number now. So when Tyreek first goes after a coach on the sideline or throws that tablet into the stands or pops off after a game about how, you know, Tua can't get in the ball,

now I can text you right away and remind you of this conversation because that's happening. I expect you to humble flex at that point. You're allowed. Now, if he, Can I humble flex when he gets to a thousand yards? Well, is that fair? Listen, if they, yeah, if they go nine or ten ways,

if he gets to a thousand yards by like week 15, I'll humble flex. Yeah, sure, absolutely. Yeah, I'll get into it. I like to sound that. By the way, pleasure to welcome me to the ringer. Your absolute stud. Keep up to go work. And you ever want to hop on ring or gambling?

You know where to find us, okay? I'll be there. Good to be here. Thank you. This is a ton of fun. Glad I got to hop on. I want to thank the whole crew, Connor, Christopher, or Juna.

Can't thank you guys enough. Shield would a fantastic count. counter argument to my Dolphins love affair. What can I tell you? Takeaway picks. This year, I'm in. They're going to be a playoff team. We'll find out.

The jury's out. Ring her NFL. We're signing off. Be good, everybody.