The Ringer NFL Show - The Texans' Future Without O'Brien, the Impressive Packers, and Quarter-Season Awards | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: October 8, 2020

Kevin Clark is joined by 10-year NFL vet and Pro Football Focus’s Bruce Gradkowski to discuss what the Texans look like moving forward (5:04), what’s been most impressive about the Packers (20:45), whether Derek Carr is the Raiders' franchise quarterback (29:43), and more. Then Kevin is joined by Kaelen Jones, Nora Princiotti, and Danny Heifetz to give out their quarter-season awards (35:45).  Host: Kevin Clark Guest: Bruce Gradkowski, Kaelen Jones, Nora Princiotti, and Danny Heifetz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is the Ringer NFL show, part of the Ringer podcast Network. I'm Kevin Clark. Great show today, joined by former NFL quarterback Bruce Radkowski. He's now pro football focus. We talk about quarterbacks, offenses, everything we've seen in the first four weeks, Deshaun Watson, what that Texan's job looks like going forward. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Dak Prescott, a lot of interesting offensive discussions. Really enjoyed chatting with Bruce Radikowski.

And then Nora Princiotti, Kaelin Jones, and Danny Haifitz joined me to give out quarter season awards. MVP, coach of the year, executive of the year, all that stuff. Really fun discussion with those guys. I want to briefly catch everybody up on the news. There's just going to be COVID news until further notice, quite frankly, in the NFL. That's the state of play. So on Wednesday morning, Stefan Gilmore, one of the best players in the NFL, test positive.

The Titans add Corey Davis to the COVID list. The reopening of their facility is now on hold. There needed to be two days of clear. tests and that is not the case. So as of now, according to Tom Pallisero, the Titans and the Bills are scheduled to play on Sunday, but the league is evaluating that.

When a decision can be made is unclear. However, the Titans now have a handful of players on the list. There's an investigation ongoing into an alleged workout that happened at Montgomery Bell Academy in Tennessee where a group of Titans players apparently got together and worked out even when the facility was closed. That is going to be a monumental investigation, quite frankly, what the punishments might be, what it might do competitively to the NFL this year is going to be fascinated to watch.

This is really the first time that the NFL's had to look into this. The Raiders obviously had an event where players weren't wearing masks and there were fines levied out. Now, this is a bit different. The Titan facility was closed. There were games being rescheduled and canceled and all that stuff. So it's a completely different category of offense. I think it's intriguing to see what the NFL finds out. And I don't know if there will be answers, quite frankly, anytime soon.

So that's where we're at in the NFL right now. This is going to be an evolving story because, obviously, as we've learned over the past couple of weeks, not just in the NFL, but all over America, this virus is not going away. And so there's going to be breaking news almost constantly about it. So we'll try to catch you up as best we can here on this podcast. So after this, we'll talk offenses and quarterbacks with Bruce Kredkowski. Today's episode of the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by State Farm. Getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great rate.

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State Farm is there. All right, Bruce Kredkowski, Pro Football Focus, 10-year NFL quarterback. Bruce, what's going on, man? What's up, brother? Thanks for having me. I, you know, I almost got confused. All these different links nowadays, Google, Zoom,

Skype. I almost didn't even get on this call. I've been amazed with how quickly NFL and the NFL media, NFL coaches, is everyone is now just adapted to Zoom. And I think that we're all up to speed at this point, I think. Right?

You're feeling comfortable on Zoom? Absolutely. You know, and it is amazing. It's remarkable of the technology we have nowadays. I mean, I think this really opens, you know, I own a few businesses as well, a restaurant here in Toledo and then a hospice company in Pittsburgh, Pilgrimage Hospice. And it's like, man, it's, you know, it's ever changing, right? Business and how you work and people working from home. home. So it is cool to see that we have to be adaptable and continue to move with the change.

And, but it's cool. You know, how we're surviving through Zoom. I love it. I remember when I got on the NFL beat, you were in middle of your career and iPads had just come in to the NFL. And there were coaches that were acting like this was the biggest inconvenience in the world. Like, oh, we got to learn on and use iPads now. And it's like, guys, we're going to be okay. To see, to see the changes now. with coaches who are comfortable on Zoom. It's been night and day. Oh, absolutely. No, absolutely. I remember that. Man, we had the iPads on the sideline. And it's just pictures. Now they're watching videos. And it's cool, man. Who knows where we'll be next?

When they said, I remember this was in the mid-20-20, so, like, 2016, they said they're going to start doing video. And there were coaches. Ron Rivera was actually one of them who said, that's the first step towards basically robots coaching. And it's like, okay, let's all, let's all calm down here. I think we're going to be okay. So let's start with, and it does involve Ron Rivera because obviously Dwayne Haskins was benched today. But I want to start generally with Deshaun Watson, the Houston Texan. So Bill O'Brien gets fired and he made a lot of mistakes as GM, as coach, as play caller. And now with Dwayne Haskins being benched and we've seen failures with guys like Sam Darnold, et cetera. There are two types of young quarterbacks right now.

They're the type that was put into position to succeed. And largely those quarterbacks have succeeded. A lot of that's their talent. A lot of that's their coaching staff, their general managers, their supporting cast. And then you have another group where it seems like their coach or their GM or the play caller is actively working against them by being a little bit incompetent or a lot incompetent in some cases. With Deshaun in particular, first, when you think about maximizing a young quarterback, what are the next steps? How do the Texans maximize him? What do they do now?

And did Bill O'Brien deserve to be fired with sort of how he had handled Deshaun and the Texans the last few years? Well, I'll start with Bill O'Brien. I think over the years, I think we watched him and some decisions were too emotional. I think the move with DeAndre Hopkins was too emotional. No one at this stage was holding him accountable. There's got to be someone there that can hold you accountable for some of the moves you're making. You send off your best receiver and then you throw a running back. And then in the past, you trade away two first round picks for a tackle.

I mean, these are moves you should. shouldn't have made it. And I'm not, I mean, I'm blaming them in a sense for just not having the support or maybe not listening or the right guidance. As a coach, I don't think he's a bad coach, but there's a lot more that goes into it with personnel, especially if you're named the GM and things of that sort. So I think there was too emotional, too many emotional decisions. I think he does do a pretty good job as a coach, but I do think it was time, not necessarily time in the season, because we've seen the Texans in the past start 0 and 3 and then rattle off how many straight, 7, 8, 9.

So I didn't think that was the time, but I do think it is time because you look what the bills are doing with Josh Allen, right? They're setting them up. The play action pass. The bills have to run the most play action pass in the league right now. And as a quarterback, that really helps you better checkdowns, easier reads to go through, you know, very easy to get through.

your progressions, you have great checkdowns. So I think we're watching it with the bills. And then with the Rams and McBey and that offense and the boots and the nakeds and the play action and the bunches, the shifts. I'm not seeing a lot of that in Houston with the shift motions, with the bunches. There's a lot of empty sets. They lead, they're second in the NFL with playing from an empty formation. And that's not easy to do as a young quarterback.

And you've got to get the ball out fast. And you have to know you're hot. You have to understand protection. and you're putting a lot on your quarterback's plate. So I think this is, you know, a prime coaching spot for someone, especially with this quarterback. Yeah. And so that's, I guess, the next question because I've been debating with whether that's friends in media or people in the league about whether or not this is a good job. I think it's a good job because there's a lot of coaches, a lot of head coaches now who would kill to have Deshaun Watson.

And they would give up some of their roster talent or picks or cap space or any of the things that Texans lack to have a quarterback like Deshaun Watson. So I guess the next logical question, you said it's a good job. How good is this job in relation to other jobs around the league, especially ones that might be open? Obviously, I would assume you think it's better than, say, the Jets or the Lions or the Falcons or some of these other jobs. Yeah, I mean, I think you have to look at the quarterback position. You know, that's where it all starts. You know, and it's just the truth in the NFL. If you have a stunned at the quarterback position, you have a chance week in and week out.

And with Deshaun Watson, can he play better at times? absolutely. But he's a stud. And he can make it happen. He can throw off rhythm and he could throw off schedule and extend plays. I mean, he's leading for us at PFF. The 20 plus yard throws downfield. His grades at what, 99.7. So he's doing phenomenal in that area. And they gave away his big time option with DeAndre Hopkins. So I do think this is probably the best job right now. You know, I've always thought about Eric B. Enemy in New York with Sam Darno because Darno can move and throw on the run. But, I mean, honestly, I think Houston might be even a better spot with Deshaun Watson.

So I would love to see how this unfolds. I can't wait to see it. You know, I played for Romeo Cornell for like a few nights in Cleveland, right? I was there for a cup of coffee, right? It was like four weeks. It was the end of the season. you know, Brady Quinn was hurt. Derek Anderson was hurt.

They had Dorsey started the second of the last game. He gets hurt. So I started the last game of the year against the Steelers. That's the year they won the Super Bowl in 2008. And but Romeo Cornell, man, he's like a big teddy bear. You got to love him. So I really think his just demeanor is going to do wonders for this team. Romeo Cornell is a type of guy that comes off like he really cares about you.

And man, watch how these guys play for him. So who knows if Romeo Cornell is going to be in the mix, you know, once this season unfolds, and we'll see where Houston's at. But I think there's something about Romeo Cornell and just his leadership style and just being that big teddy bear that it's almost like a guy you don't want to disappoint. So we'll see how that happens. You mentioned some of the things schematically that the bill is doing around Josh Allen that have impressed you.

What lessons should NFL teams with the young quarterback and maybe not, listen, I think Josh Allen from his work ethic and his natural. talent and all that stuff, I think he's taking a huge leap. I don't think any of us expected Josh Allen to be as good as he's been through four weeks. But obviously, there's been a lot of infrastructure improvement and the bills have done a great job with it. If you have a young quarterback right now and you look at the bills, what ideas are you stealing? What lessons are you learning? And how do you go forward if you have a Sam Darnold or a Dwayne Haskins that you're trying to improve? What can the NFL learn from what the bills have done and Josh Allen?

Well, the number one thing you have to do is communicate. You have to communicate with your quarterback and find out what he's comfortable running. There's quarterbacks that are comfortable post snap, you know, reading the defense and making a read off the defense. There's quarterbacks that are more comfortable trying to make a decision pre-snap, so they don't have to worry once a ball snap is making too many decisions. That's where you get into like progression readings, no matter the coverage. Just read it high to low, one, two, three.

And some guys are great at RPO's. You know, you saw what Nick Fools did for the Eagles. So it's your comfort level as a quarterback. And I think right now, you know, that's what the bills do with Josh Allen. You know, a lot of coaches probably think, like John Gruden, one of them, thinking quick game is easier. Well, quick game isn't always easier for the quarterback. You have to make split second decisions.

You have to be decisive. You have to put the ball in precise location on throws. And the decisions you make have to happen right now. and the windows are a lot tighter. So now, like, as I grew in the NFL and I'm in year four and five, I was like, man, those 18 to 20 yards down field, I love those throws because it's not about arm strength. It's about understanding timing and rhythm,

dropping it over the linebackers before the safeties, and just understanding that type of football. So I think that's one we're seeing from Josh Allen right now. He's comfortable in this scheme. And also with play action, you have better. checkdown. And now he can use his ability because he could probably see the field better. He's deeper in his drop. And now he just kind of makes plays. I mean, I really think he has to continue to just own the fact that he plays, he plays like Big Ben, how Big Ben did early in his career. Ben had a good

team around him. He had a good coach and Bill Cowher and then Mike Tomlin. And that's what Josh Allen has right now. He has a good coach. He has good players around him. And you can afford maybe a few, I don't like that throw, you know, protect the football a little bit better, but you can afford those because of his upside in those remarkable plays he can make. It's a great point. I remember being in a clinic type thing,

and Bill Cowher was talking, and he was basically making the point that Ben's supporting cast early on was so good that it really kind of glossed over all of the rookie mistakes he was making. And I think because Ben developed into Ben a few years later, it wasn't, I think that people didn't realize how much that that infrastructure lifted him up.

And I think that the Josh Allen, Rothesburgh comparisons are really interesting to me. When you think about sort of just the improvement he's made, whether that's limiting mistakes, whether that's accuracy, do you remember anybody in your career, whether you were playing with him or playing against them, a quarterback who made this type of jump in year three

or, you know, kind of, you know, the big jump is always from year one to year two. But do you remember a quarterback where you said, wow, this guy got better, you know, after year two? I mean, look at what Gough did, Jared Gough, once McBay came in and McBay's system and it was friendly to the quarterback. It was more detailed in a sense of, you know, to process it in a quarterback's mind. A lot of times a quarterback, they just need a process. They need the way to go about it and handle your business, how to read the defense, how to go about each and every play.

Because every play changes and every play there's a different decision walking the line of scrimmages. the line of scrimmage of how you're going to approach that play. So I kind of compared to golf. I think Josh Allen has worked tremendously hard at continuing to get better throwing the football. I think right now he looks smooth. He looks poised. He's more of kind of like a three-quarters delivery now, it looks like, to where it's coming out. Like he's kind of found that arm angle that works for him.

I remember I was with the Raiders in year four or five. And that's what happened to me. I kind of just got in the niche of, man, I can make every. throw because I'm just very comfortable in how I'm releasing it, my footwork and all that. So I think with Josh Allen, he's worked really hard at him and it's starting to come together. Now, he still misses some throws. He's not always the most accurate, but he's still young quarterback. And those type of things are going to happen.

But it is cool to watch him and see him, especially because he is a competitor. There was a few plays last year I remember watching. And, man, like him diving for first downs or jumping over the line for a third and short, was pretty cool to see. And it's fun to watch the bills now and see what he's doing. 100%. So switching gears a little bit. The NFL is in an unprecedented scoring boom.

So Michael Lopez from the NFL said that last year, there were 100 more punts at this point in the NFL than there were last year. 100 less puns this year than there were last year. There were more points scored through the first four weeks of this season than any other season since the merger, not even counting money. night. The league went into Monday night, having already broken the record for the first four weeks of scoring. Okay. This is an unprecedented scoring boom. I want to ask you, as someone who understands offense, as someone who understands every fast of the game, what is this? Is this just,

you know, people pointed to the lack of holding penalties, people, you know, the lack of defensive practice, all that stuff. Obviously, offensive numbers were always going up, but not like this. When you look at what offenses are doing to defense the first four weeks, it is what? Well, it's COVID, right? It's the COVID offense right now. But I think with the off season, there's been no off season. There's not a lot of time. I mean, of course, a lot of communication on Zoom.

We love Zoom. But, man, you've got to get on the field. You have to work it. There's a lot of communication on the field that needs to happen. And I think it's easier for offenses to get going than a defense. And I'm seeing a lot of miscommunications out there, defense. I mean, you watched Green Bay the other night. You saw Aaron Rogers throw to how many wide open receivers

because either miscommunication or receiver falling down. And, I mean, it comes with time. And I think that's why we see this fast start by offenses. But also the game is changing. I mean, man, we have right now, if you look around the league, the quarterback play right now is phenomenal with Rogers, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady. These guys, I mean, I talked about Jared Gough,

the way he's playing right now. Big Ben is back. You know, so it's just, it's fun to watch. And, you know, so I just think, man, offense is right now. The teams do just way ahead and just those jet sweet motions and shifts, the motions, the buntz, the snug formations. It's just hard to cover and you've got to communicate a lot if you're a defense.

Yeah, it's a great point. I want to hone out something you say, top of the miscommunications and defense falling down or whatever, just not being on the same page. when there's a confused defense, and that seems to be every defense in the NFL right now except for a handful, what kind of plays,

what kind of routes, what kind of schemes do you throw at them to take advantage of that? And obviously every team is going to be confused in a different way, every player is going to be a different way. But if you want to apply the pressure broadly, what do you do to a defense? Do you try to stretch them vertically?

Do you do the more motions, like you said? How do you take advantage of that and what our team's doing so far? Well, I think it depends on what scheme and what defense you're facing. Some there's defenses that you just know their tendencies. So you're going to attack that area as far as like Andy Reid, right? He looks like they walk to the line of scrimmage and the offense looks like it's in a trip's right formation. Then all of a sudden before the staff, they shift someone from the right side to the left side.

So now it's a two by two formation. Now two by two formation and picture Patrick Mahomes is in the shotgun. He's got Clyde Edwards to Laird is left side. So it's two by two formation. It started a three by one, three receivers to the right, one to the left. They shift a receiver over to left. There's two by two now. The back is to the left of Patrick Mahomes.

Now all of a sudden, before to snap, boom, you have a jet suite motion behind Mahomes. Now all of a sudden you got three receivers to that side and the running back to that side. Now of a sudden, you just flooded the whole side of the defense. And a lot of times it's too quick for the defense to react and, you know, cover that. And there's a lot of communication that comes on. So you watch Andy Reed and how he does that. The Packers did that the other night with three running backs at one time, which was cool. They started, same thing like I'm talking about, started with a single receiver to the one side.

And then boom, all of a sudden at the snap, they have three verticals going on that side. So I just think it's a lot of cool football and designs. And that's what you try to do. Attack the defense where they're weak or where you think do I have a hard time communicating it. Yeah. And you make a great point. And one of the things about the quarterback class and then the quarterbacks that are currently dominating is a lot of them are just smart veteran guys who would normally have an edge. But that edge only grows this year because of what you said, the COVID training camp and all that stuff and not being able to meet in June and even have rookie mini camps, whatever it is.

There's a lot of people who are behind the curve. Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, they're not a part of the people who are behind the curve. They're always going to be ahead of the curve. And that was something that scouts and GMs and coaches said in training camp, which is that. If you have a little bit of an edge, it's going to become a huge edge this year. To that end, with Rogers, what specifically has Matt Lafleur done to maximize this? Because there was so much talk, obviously they draft Jordan Love in the first round. There was so much talk they were going to become a San Francisco-esque bully ball team or whatever you want to call it.

But this is obviously Aaron Rogers team. When you're looking at this and you're charting it, you're looking at the data and the film, what has impressed you most about Matt LaFleur? I mean, man, a young coach that is very smart. and detailed. And I mean, and then you talk about Aaron Rogers, the swag he's playing with right now, the confidence.

I mean, man, it's just fun to watch. And the guy, there's really nobody better to watch throw the football than Aaron Rogers. I mean, Patrick Mahomes next. Of course, Russell Wilson does it as well. But I'm talking about the slingshot just fires it, you know, flick of the wrist, it goes 60 yards.

That's Aaron Rogers. And his beautiful back shoulder passes. I mean, he is playing at an all-time high right now is just the way he's playing. And I think the confidence is matching that. So that's been cool to watch and see, I mean, what, 15 big time throws right now? He's number one on the list for passing grade at 95.5 for us. Russell Wilson is second. So a lot of good football.

And even so, Rogers is crushing it in the intermediate level. And for us, that's 10 to 19 yards. he's the number one passer in that area with his passing grade. So he's just really doing it all right now. And it's fun to see the most important stat, though, I love about Rogers right now, zero turnover-worthy plays for us at PFF. He's protecting the football as he's shredding defense. And that was one of the things.

I think there were some people at PFF and other places where they said, okay, Rogers isn't turning the ball over. He's in previous years. And they're saying Rogers isn't turning the ball over, but he's not taking risks and all that stuff. But I think that Rogers is playing aggressive football right. now and he's still not making mistakes. And that's what you like to see. And that's why you're throwing the 10 to 19 yard passes and connecting with those, that that's why that's so

impressive. I want to talk, you know, you made some news I saw on Twitter a couple of days ago about how you thought maybe Sam Darnold should be the next dealer's quarterback, whenever that's possible. When you talk about sort of the openings of quarterback that might come in in the next couple of years, whether that's in New Orleans and obviously James is there, but who knows about that long-term situation there. Pittsburgh will obviously have an opening at some point. What do you think sort of with Pittsburgh specifically we'll hone in on? With a franchise like that that has such a good infrastructure, has been so stable for so long,

what are these, what are these teams need at quarterback? Do they need a Sam Darnold and develop him? Do you think they'll try to go young and maybe draft a quarterback in the first round? How do these teams sort of start planning from a succession standpoint when you've been unstable for so long. Well, it's tough. It's tough because these guys like big band, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, they don't just fall off trees every year. Philip Rivers, you know, so it's really remarkable of how well they've played throughout their career and how consistent. It's hard to be consistently good week after week, let alone year after year,

and these guys have done it for 17 plus years, 20 years. It's amazing to me. So, I mean, like, you see Sean Pate, right? Drew Breeze, yes, his arm isn't all there as far as arm strength downfield, but that's always been just an efficient offense. He's never just shredded defense by throwing a ton of deep balls. But now of a sudden, you got James Winston behind him where now that's a new toy for Sean Payton. Now all of a sudden the field opens up. There's more opportunities.

And now how much does Winston learn behind Drew Breeze this year? Does he learn how to protect the football, to manage the offense, to take control to Audible, to Can plays? you know, Sean Payton's offense, you're calling multiple plays in the huddle at once. And then you look at the Steelers. I mean, you just, you have to try to plan, but it's very hard. And it's not like it's always going to be that quarterback in the first round. You see it a lot of times.

Russell Wilson third rounder, Tom Brady, six-rounder. That kind of stuff happens, but it's difficult, man. It's difficult to find your franchise guy, and those teams have to do it now if they're not already, like Sean Payton signing Winston. But I made that comment about Sam Darnold because I think, right now, Sam Darnold's beat up. And I don't mean just physically, but mentally. It takes a toll on you, you know, not winning games, getting beat up physically, then hearing the media and then, you know, having to miss a few games because of an injury or this and that. And it's tough. It wears on you.

And I think Pittsburgh is the best culture I've been in. Mike Tomlin does a phenomenal job as a leader. He lets guys, he empowers guys to grow into the players that are capable of because, And I think Sam Darnold in that kind of environment can really flourish. And I think he plays similar to Ben and, you know, getting outside the pocket, extending plays. This thing Sam Darnold has to get better at is hitting the plays that are there and not getting off reeds too fast and not getting antsy in the pocket. But look, that's what I talk about being mentally beat up and physically beat up.

Your line hasn't been the greatest. You haven't got many great opportunities. So I just thought, you know, not that that would. that probably won't happen. But it was just a bottom of... It definitely could happen. I mean, when you think about what happens, and this is true, I think of,

and Donald's not in this category, but when you think of all the upheaval in the next couple of years at quarterback in sort of the generation below the generation of tournament, I'm not talking about Breeze and Brady, who obviously was cycle out of the league or Ralthusberger, but, you know, there's going to be a coaching change in Atlanta, probably,

and what happens with Matt Ryan in the next 24 months, 36 months, what happens with Matt Stafford in Detroit, I mean, the moving pieces, I think, are really interesting to think about. And where does a Matt Stafford finally get into a great infrastructure where he's in Pittsburgh or he's in New Orleans? I mean, I just think that there's just a lot of different possibilities here. With Tom, when you mentioned this, and I kind of want to get your inside the locker room take on this because I think one of the things that is really going to be important is

leadership through all of the chaos that. is going to incur because of what the pandemic would do to the schedule. And Mike Tomlin obviously was not able to have his Steelers play on Sunday because of a situation in Nashville. And I'm curious what kind of response players are going to have and what do they need to do and what can they control as far as not knowing when they're going to play, not knowing, hey, this Sunday game might be played on Monday now or Tuesday. what kind of traits, I guess, do teams need as far as flexibility, as far as mental strength, when we don't even know from week to week what the schedule is going to look like, Bruce?

Yeah, I mean, it's just going to get crazier. I mean, with what happened with the Titans, that's not the first time that this is going to happen. So I think it's just very important that coaches now are you going to use the Titans for an example. Like, look, we have to control what we could control. It's inevitable that this thing could come into our locker room. but are we being smart about it? Are we keeping our distance from one another? Not just for yourself,

but for protection of others and the good for our team in the future. Guys, look, we can't afford to miss games. Who knows how this goes? You have to start forfeiting games if all of a sudden you're missing multiple games because of COVID. And I think it's very important

to follow the guidelines. And it might be, look, I love going out to dinner after a game on Sundays, but babe, maybe you should cook tonight. You know, I mean, it's just the little things. Mom and dad, you know, grandparents might come in for the game, and you might have to say, you know what, there's no fans at the game.

So why don't you just kind of, it's on NBC tonight, just tune in. So I really think it's, I really think it's being even more detailed than players have been in the past because this is a different year. And I really feel like the teams that take the extra step that are extra, you know, caution towards this and handle their business and have a singular focus on what's our goal man our goal is to win a championship how do we get there is going out to dinner you know on a Tuesday night like yeah you need to have some downtime but to take that risk is that ultimately helping us reach our goal and I'm telling you there's other ways maybe to get some downtime and freedom but

if you really want that championship and you have how many months to go after it hey it might be worse because then all of a sudden, February comes to your whole net Lombardi Trophy up, go do your thing now, you know, enjoy the offseason. So I just think it's the strong leaders right now that are going to prevail and have their teams prepared and ready to match up each and every week. Let's do some rapid fire right at the end. You played for John Gruden. You know John Gruden well. Is Derek Carr the long-term quarterback in Las Vegas? Man, that's tough. I think Carr has it all physically. But I'm going to have to say no, man. Grude, I remember Jeff Garcia. I play with Garcia and Garcia always said, he likes to date you, but he'll never marry you. So this marriage,

this dating between Carr and Gruden has gone on pretty long. So he might start getting wondering eyes. Yeah, I remember someone telling me that as soon as he took the Oakland job when it was. He's like he's always looking for the next quarterback. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he had Aaron Rogers would be looking for the next quarterback. You know, it's just crazy. You're right. Interesting guy, though. Can the Buccaneers win the NFC? Oh, absolutely. And I think they will. I mean, I think Tom Brady, Bruce Aaron Lefich, I think they've been doing a good job. And I think once they continue to get in the groove together, they're dangerous, man. They've had a lot of drop passes. Brady has been phenomenal 20 plus yards downfield for us at PFF. His arm's strain. Everything is there to

get it done. Man, it just stinks about O.J. Howard and some losses they've had. Man, I'm praying for him in that injury. That just stinks. I hate seeing that. But I do think the box, man, they're capable because, like we talked about, they got that guy behind center. That's all you need. And that defense is really picking up. And I've loved what they've been able to do. I was hearing Chris Sims talked about it a couple of days ago where they're using some of that Patriot stuff, especially in the shotgun. And they've really built a really interesting offense. That's a mixture of what Brady does well and what Aryans does well. And that's what I find fascinating about what the first four weeks. And it'll only continue as they get to know each other. Again, no OTAs,

no, you know, no training camp really to speak of. So it'll only grow. All right. First, give me a quarterback right now that everybody's writing off or they're down on who either can turn it around, will turn it around, or you still believe in against all the evidence through four weeks. Oh, man. This one's tough. You know, I'll kind of flip it on you. You know, So, Dak has a ton of yards right now, but he's not playing as well as the statistics say. He's just still missing too many throws for me, and he's not fully accurate. You talk about Drew Bree's accuracy. I'm talking about leading it up on the upfield number, right on the face mask, away from coverage.

That's what I want to see Dak Prescott get better at. And I think he can. I mean, I really love watching him play. I think he's a really good young quarterback. I think he is the future there. but I'm just saying statistically speaking, the amount of yards he's been throwing for, I think he still can play better.

And I'm just, I'm impressed the way golf has been playing. With that offense and the Rams and McBay, they really have something going over there. And those are two guys I think about that are off the radar as far as not like the Mahomes, the Brady, the Rogers, and the Wilson like we talked about.

So, you know, a lot of good quarterback play, a lot of fun things to watch. And look, don't forget about Big Ben. You know, Big Ben is sliding on. under the radar. He's been playing well. He's been playing consistent, like pretty good, but he could still get better. But there's not a better way to continue to try to get better as you win football games. Ben's missed some throws out there. I know he wants to have back.

But once Ben gets in the groove and you get to playoff football, man, don't count the Steelers out because that defense is vicious as well. So I think Big Ben's another one that could kind of slide under the radar next year you know the Steelers are winning the AFC North. Scott, is this Cowboys team going to get better? Is this who they are? Man, well, the defense has to get better. You know, that's right. You can't give up that many points

to try to play from behind so many times. And, but the defense has to get better. I think Mike McCarthy, they need to figure it out over there. Jerry Jones, you know, he doesn't have much patience. And who knows what he's going to go on his radio show and say. But I think they will get it together. You know, I think that does a good job. I think McCarthy and Kelman.

and more of that offense, but you can't play from behind all the time because there's always a question, too, think about it. Dak has been playing well, for the most part, all these big passing yards and all that, but there's, of course, there's a sense of urgency, but you're also not supposed to win the game because you're down by so many. So there's not really that pressure on. There's only the upside, right? So that's going to be interesting to see.

I want to see them play better, but especially on the defense. Last thing before we get you on out of here, who's going to win the MVP? Who, man, this MVP is going to, it's going to come down to the wire. I'm talking about Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady. You know, I'm going to say right now it's a race between Rogers and Wilson. These two are just lighten it up. You talk about Russell Wilson. Guys are going to, teams defenses are going into stadium saying, we can't let Russell Wilson get off.

We can't let it beat us. And he's still doing it. Him and D.K. Metcalfe is fun to watch. I think it's going to come down to Rogers and Wilson. I can't wait to see, man. Just a lot of good quarterback playing. It's fun to watch. Make a pick, Bruce.

Rogers or Wilson? I'm going to Wilson. Oh, yeah. I think so, too. I think if it's close, the narrative has built so, so towards Wilson with the never got an MVP vote thing and let Russ Cook and all that stuff. I think if it's close between those two, I think it would go to Wilson, even though both those guys are just unbelievable.

But man, as they get older, you know, but Rogers is up there. So somebody sway their vote, like, ah, man, he's a good point. It's hard to pick, man, because I'd be happy to see either one of them, you know, so it's hard, man, because those are two my favorite guys to watch. It's a good thing. I don't have a vote, so I don't have to make that decision. I can just, whatever I don't like, I can just blame the voters, and I don't have to do anything for it.

Bruce Grikowski, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thanks, brother. Okay, coming up, quarter season awards, but first a quick break. Kaelin Jones, Nora Princeyati, Danny Heifitz. What a group. Kalin Jones, you were hacked recently. How was it? Great.

If you love being away from Twitter, not great if you like feeling like an idiot. Was it relaxing to not have a Twitter account for a couple weeks? Oh, dude, it totally was. Are you kidding me? Like, I had no Twitter notifications. Like, I realized I'm addicted because I would, you know, touch the app like I had access. I don't have a burner. So I'd open the screen.

I'm like, oh, yeah. You don't have a Twitter. It's kind of blissful, not going to lie. Whenever someone says I don't have a burner, I think they're a burner. As soon as you said that, I was like, Kailen has a burner. As soon as you said that, yeah. I've been getting a lot of tweets to say, where's Kailen? I love Kailen.

It was from school. I made one for college. Like, they made a, they had us make a college account for school, and I forgot the password. So I didn't even have access to my burner. I have a burner. Katie Trey 35. Oh. I wish you had said that, Danny.

I think you should have just left it. I wish that we just thought you had a burner and ever wanted to figure out what it was. So we're going to do some quarter season awards way too early, but that's what we do here. Reckless and speculative here at the Ring Runoff Bell show. Danny Hyfitts has a Bill Belichick dog background on Zoom, which we love. Is that your permanent one? Yeah, I use this all the time. His name is Nike.

You use it all the time. That's why I thought. because I've seen it. You've had it on like meetings and stuff. I just, that's just your go-to background. Well, yeah,

it's important to get in a championship mentality, championship attitude. So if this is where Bill Belichick works, then I want to be able to work like that, man. That's my executive of the year pick. Nike? Nike. Nike Belichick.

Um, all right. Assistant of the year. Nailed that Kyle Dugger pick. The dog is Bills, correct? It's not Lindas or anybody else's. It's bills,

but it's also Lindex. I think, I think the, I think there are a lot of Linda influences that went into the acquisition of the dog. Have we talked about how Bill wanted to name the dog Jack? Did that ever come up? I know. Okay.

I'll make this quick. You guys all have to look up. They did a CNBC interview on Nantucket. Oh, I've heard of this. Yeah. About like getting the dog. And there's a part of it where Bill says that he wanted to name the dog Jack. And it just hangs in the air because he says it like five times.

Like, dog looks like a jack. I like Jack. And you can just tell he's not over it. Anyway. Wow. I didn't know that. Oh, it's spectacular television. Do you think if the dog ran away, he would look for it?

Or do you think he'd just try to get a fourth compensatory pick? I think there's real love there. I don't think they talk football much. Yeah. My most low stakes and not going anywhere story about this is the time that the NFL owners meeting where I was in front of Bill and Linda to get drinks. And Bill was just going through. through the menu.

And I felt, I was like floating, just hearing Bill Belichick, just going, looks like beer and wine. That's incredible. Looks like, looks like beer and one. And I was just like, this is, he's in press conference mode about the drink list here, wherever we were, the Billmore, the whatever the hell was, wherever the NFL meeting was that year. But I just remember hearing that and going, wow, this is all very strange. All right, we're doing quarter season awards.

Not that we don't want to do Bill Belichick dog talk for the rest of the time. We will start. Let's actually end with MVP. Let's build up to that. We'll start with Coach of the Year, Danny Heifitz. And by the way, just so everyone knows, this is the quarter season performance, not predictions on who we think it's going to be,

although it can be both. Yeah, well, I think quarter, it's a good time to do quarter season because usually every year you're like, well, what if the season ended today? And this year, it's like, well, the season really could end today. I was thinking about that.

I was thinking about that. It was just, yeah, like this, if we pick, you know, Mike Rable at 3 and 0, well, maybe that's what Mike Frabel's record's going to be this year. I just don't know. Well, I got Matt Lafleur for Coach of the Year. And I gave this some thought.

And look, at some point, okay, it's time to be like, look, Matt LaFer is crushing it. We saw that stat on Monday in football the other day. He's 17 and 3 in his first 20 games. I think he's tied with Tom Landry. And look, the Packers are 4-0. They haven't turned the ball over yet. Sometimes it's not rocket science. Like, the Packers haven't really played a close game except for the Saints where

they pulled it out against, and they looked like the better team all four weeks. And they, Matt Lafleur is straight up outcoached three different coaches. So I, I don't, of all of the resumes going through the undefeated teams or even the three and ones, ones, I don't know anyone who's done a better job with their squad, especially considering the lack of help the front office gave him with the roster. I don't see anyone else other than Lafleur, who also I like to say like dodge ball, like Leflur. I picked Leflur too. And it's funny because I think no matter, like we can talk about it up to this point. But ultimately when we get to the end of the season, coach of the year is probably going to have some sort of COVID angle to it. A hundred percent.

And like how somebody navigates that. Like for instance, Mike Tomlin, obviously we don't know what's going to happen with the rest of the season. But up to this point, let's say the Steelers keep rolling in a similar way that they have. There's going to be a lot of like they didn't really have a buy week and their schedule changed. And it wasn't because of them. It was just because of who they were. playing and they got through it and they did all this stuff. And something like that, I'm nearly positive. Like, I'm positive of so little these days, but I'm nearly positive that

is going to influence coach of the year. But right now, if we're doing right up to this point, I would say that, you know, the Steelers have looked really good, but they just haven't played anyone, really. With Lafleur, this actually, you know, I'm in, I'm in the Northeast. This had gone over my head. They have some of the worst COVID numbers in the country in Green Bay. And I think like going through that must be really challenging and I guess interesting is sort of the wrong word because it's in such a morbid way. But like hearing him talk about it last week being like, we need you guys to be so careful and also talking to the fans about like things are bad out there. And what you guys do is going to influence what we're able to do. It kind of, it just made me think about how they've

navigated the early part of that season in a different way. So I think there's like a very clear football argument for it. But I would not be surprised with however this ends up going by the end of the year that being a big influence in who actually gets this award. No, it's a great point. And I think that when we look at how all of these awards are influenced by narratives, that's going to be the narrative. I mean, you mentioned Tomlin, but what about Belichick? If Belichick has his quarterback, his lockdown cornerback out for, you know,

extended number of weeks, whatever it is and he's able to, they're able to overcome that, whatever it is. I mean, like, it's funny to me, not funny is the wrong word. But I, you know, everyone here sits around and says like, oh, this coach overcame a varsity. And it's always like, you know, they started O in two or whatever. And I think it's very cynical to sit here and say like, oh, they overcame aversity. We're talking about a global pandemic. But I think that's how voters are going to look at it.

And I think that there will be a lot of that. I'm in agreement with you that as of through four weeks, it's LaFleur. I actually, it's funny this mirrors the MVP race, but I was thinking about Pete Carroll, just his great offensive awakening is there's a case you made there. Caitlin Jones, who's yours? Exactly. I know, so obviously, we'll for probably,

you know, three out of one here, but Pete Carroll has literally gotten out of the way and allowed Russell Wilson to do his thing. Exactly. At his age, look at the elderly, for him to have this reckoning at his age,

I'll say that. I say this as a 24-year-old. But elderly, yeah, okay. But, I mean, the fact that Russell Wilson has been, you know, so prolific through the first four weeks of the season. I mean, they're literally third and overall offensive DVOA, fourth and passing offensive DVOA. Like, thank God for Pete Carroll finally seeing the light. And when you look at what they have defensively too, I mean, most of their players have been injured on it. Granted last week, they didn't look all that great against a Miami team that's, you know, pretty scrappy and pretty gritty.

I mean, they don't have too many players, but Brian Forrest is building something there. But Seattle's undefeated. They look like one of the best teams in the NFL, and they don't have the most talented roster, but they do have the best quarterback. And Pete Carroll is letting them do this thing. And, you know, I think coached here after four weeks. I love Pete Carroll.

I think he's one of the best coaches in football, but I love the idea that, like, Pete Carroll do less is what is going to win him, coach the year. Empowering Skybox shoddy. It's what's happened. Box shoddy. I love Skybox shoddy. Can we also just agree for a moment that Coach of the Year is the

dumbest award because the real coach of the year award is called the Lombardi trophy? What just happened? What's just saying? The part of what we're talking about with narratives. You just sounded like Tom Copland. I'm just saying, like, the reason it's a narrative award is because the best coach is the guy who wins the Super Bowl. Well, it's also a regular season award.

I know. I'm just throwing it out there. That's all. They need them make a separate. The playoff coach of the year is called the Lombardi trophy. There you go. It's like the Khan Smyth. It's at the Khan Smyth Award for coaches.

I never know what we're going to get with Danny Hypeith. I'm glad he's here. All right. Let's quickly move on. I'm sure Danny Hyatt fits has some more takes on here. Executive of the year. Kalin Jones. Ooh, executive of the year.

I'm going to go with Bill O'Brien. Wait, you know, there's a case to be made. Yes. That Bill O'Brien getting himself fired is the best thing anybody could do for any team this year. I thought we were done with Bill O'Brien segments. No, I thought we were done. We are not good. They came roaring back.

No. So my friend Noah Freeman worked over at Fox. He sent me a text. Apparently, Booker McFarlane had this tweet that said, Bill O'Brien, the GM got Bill O'Brien the head coach fired. And that in itself is a fantastic job. I'm sorry. Like, he did such a good, bad job that Deshaun Watson is finally free.

JJ Wat is finally free. J.J. Watt was so upset that he apparently went off at Bill O'Brien, the head coach. He said, look it, get GM Bill O'Brien here to get you out of here. And that's what happened. I mean this. I love Bougar McFarland's Twitter account. I absolutely adore it. Like, I don't agree with a lot of stuff he says, but I just love the takes.

He had one the other day. I'm going to read it here. Dak threw for 500 and they were never in the game. That's why stats are for losers. And I don't even agree with that. But it's true. But there's within that, there's a kernel of, of, of truth. And I think that I like having people like Booger McFarwin in the sport.

This is a pro-Bugger podcast. Yeah. Danny Hyfitz, executive of you here. I'm not kidding. I wrote down Bill O'Brien, but it's a bit. So I'm just kind of amazed Kaelin went with him first. But no, I have Brandon Bean for the bills. Yeah. Because, I mean, he did the most important thing a GM can do.

Well, I guess the most important thing in GM does is bringing a quarterback. And the second most important thing is you bring in the pieces to determine, is this the guy? And after a couple years of Josh Allen, he sucked. And it wasn't clear if he was the guy. They bring in Diggs. You know, the whole Diggs is a great deep ball catcher. Josh Allen's a bad deep ball thrower. Can he be a good one?

And it worked. And they kept the offensive line together. The pieces actually worked together of how Diggs, Brown, Cole Beasley, they all kind of fit together. The offense works. And now they've gone from this defensive team who just Josh Allen, can you be a game manager to they can air out the ball. They can play all these different ways.

I just think the way Brandon Beats kept that team together. They were one of three or four teams that kept all their line starters together in the same offseason. He's done a phenomenal job. Yes. I will get to mine in a second. Let's ask Nora and then we'll round up and argue. Nora. So I actually think I think Brandon Bean deserves it. I'm very glad that you said that, Danny, because I think that he's like done the best job overall with the roster. The thing is,

is that it's like a cumulative over the course of a few years thing. So who I think would actually get it, Jason Light. Like I think you just, you add Tom Brady and you nail that and it's, it's all, it's done. Like that looks good enough to me where I'm like, I think we have a pretty clear answer here. Interesting. Okay. So I don't, I think that that Tampa Bay team is really good. And I think that they have players that have been overshadowed by Tom Brady. I think the defensive line has been overshadowed. I think the secondary is really coming along. I love that Tampa Bay team. I don't think that I think Jason Light might not get the credit because Tom Brady coming is the most important thing. So I think it's going to be Bean. And I think a lot of it, quite frankly, is I think Bean probably should

make contender last year. The reason he wasn't is because John Lynch won. Obviously, they built a very nasty team. And the 49ers, the best team of the NFC, everybody figured that out. And so that's deserved the year before. I thought about Chris Ballard for this because of how good the Colts are. He won 2018. I kind of feel like voters like to spread this around.

I will say that this is just not a good award to win. Like, starting in 2010, we'll start in 2010. So first of all, Pollyan wins in 2009, gets fired a couple of years later. goalie wins in 2010 with the Chiefs. He's out a couple of years later. Trent Balky in 2011 with the Niners. He's out a couple of years later. Ryan Grigson speaks for itself, 2012.

John Dorsey, 2013 with the Chiefs. Jerry Jones, 2014. No longer considered the best GM in football. Mike McAgnon, 2015. Reggie McKenzie, 2016. And then you have Howie, Chris Ballard, and John Lynch. So the last three actual good GMs before that, let's just say it was hit and miss.

Kevin, what does that say to you? Is that because the voters are wrong and they don't understand cause and effect? Or is that just football so random that it's hard to keep pieces together? I think that, and this is true of coach of the year or two, I think that football is random. And I think that we ascribe certain values to teams

that might just be a little bit of luck or they get hot for one off season, and team wins 11 games, and all of a sudden it's, oh, they built some great team. I think that now, I think there's probably a reason the last three look more sustainable. I think that voters are starting to come around on sort of long-term team building. But it's not like, I mean, Jason Garrett won the 2016 Coach of the Year award in the NFL.

Matt Negi won it in 2018. By the way, this is the Pro Football Writers Association, not the other one because Ryan Pace has also won an executive of the year award at one point via a couple of different services. I was looking at the Pro Football Writers Association, which is the one I look at. But I just think sometimes a team accidentally wins 12 or 13 games. That can happen. We've seen it. Most teams that win double digit games are genuinely good.

Sometimes they're not. And if a team goes from zero to 100 in one year, people start to say, let's give this team an award. That's all. Can we go back to light for a second? Who do you think, well, do you think if they're really good, say they go to the Super Bowl? Yeah. Is Brady getting all the credit? Because so here's.

Brady, Ariens and a little bit of left with, probably. Okay. So here's, that's interesting. that you think that because my assumption is that if Brady's really good and they win a lot of games, they have a good playoff run, I think Brady's going to poach credit from Arians, which is why I think there's some light potential. Do you think Arians is giving all those insane quotes just to make sure people don't forget about them? Yeah. That's actually a great take. This is why he keeps just being like, we would have gotten her ass kicked last year. What? Okay. Also, it doesn't matter because if they

win the Super Bowl, then he'll have gotten the Lombardi trophy, which is the real coach of the year award. The con the cons might the word for coaches. All right. Yeah. Executive of the year, I think it's being, I think that I also, I wonder if there will be any other awards. Like I wonder how good Josh Allen has to be for there to be a Josh Allen MVP conversation. I'm, I'm not there yet. But, you know, when a team like the bills comes on the scene and wins a bunch of games and they will, there tend to be narratives that they'd garner awards in that in that scenario. All right. Next, defensive player of the year, Nora Princiotti.

So this I'm excited about because I actually get to stick with my preseason prediction of Miles Garrett, who is tied for the NFL league in socks with five. And I think it, you know, he's playing incredibly well. Olivier Vernon is also playing incredibly well. That's only going to help him have great numbers as the season goes on. If you look at their schedule, they're playing some like not amazing quarterbacks. And I just think that'll, I mean, obviously barring injuries is like always the caveat. But I think he'll continue to have a great season. Kailon Jones.

Similar to Nora, I'm sticking with my preseason pick in T.J. Watt. You know, first game had an interception. He's had 10 quarterback hits through three games in addition to three and a half sets. I know that, you know, Pittsburgh has not really played anybody yet. They've played the Giants. they've played the Broncos and they've played Houston that was still coached by Bill O'Brien. So awful teams. But that being said, I mean, T.J. Y has been dominant.

Like that defense literally ranks in the top five of, you know, DVOA marks. Again, they haven't played anybody yet, but T.J. Watt is a playmaker. And I think it, you know, there's something to be said for when you're able to affect the game on a great defense in the manner that T.J. Watt does. Odds for this, by the way, T.J. Watt is the favorite at plus 4.50. then Aaron Donald, Miles, Garrett, Zadaria, Smith, Colomac, Joey Bosa, then Xavier Rhodes at plus 2,700. Whoa.

No, no love for DeForest Buckner? No, DeForest Buckner is actually the MVP of the Colts, and yet he's not listed on here, so I'm not sure what's going on. That's shocking. That was my second. Interceptions. I think we're at the time of the year right now where odds makers are whomever, are just looking at staff and saying, oh, okay.

DeForest Buckner, to quote many, many football people over the the years, it's not showing up in the box score for DeForest Buckner necessarily. He's just a game wrecker. Although Aaron, I mean, like, here's the thing. Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, and Cleveland, who have the top three players here, Watt, Donald, and Garrett. They're all going to be in contention. And so I think any three of them can win.

If I had to guess, I'm going to guess Aaron Donald again. I think Aaron Donald's going to, I think the Rams are going to be pretty good. They're going to make the playoffs. And I think that people just, I think Aaron Donald is just so. well regarded that a game wrecking Aaron Donald on a relevant team wins this award. Danny Hyfitz. I agree. I picked down. I mean, I had, I had DJ Watt before the season, so I get the DJ Watt thing. I actually picked Miles Garrett in 2018. So I like, those are the top three to me. But Aaron Donald's just the best player. And you remember when Derek Rose won that at random MVP,

like seven years ago because everyone was bored of voting for LeBron? That's this to me. Aaron Donald is so clearly the best defender in football when you watch. And the thing is, if you look at the stats of pressure rate, I mean, we have to use pressure rate because the Steelers haven't played a fourth game. he's basically tied or right below Watt or Miles Garrett and whatever. But the point is he's an interior lineman. That's the part you forget.

When we say game breaker, to me he's a pocket breaker. He collapses the pocket. This isn't someone who's good at coming around the edge. He just breaks the shape of the pocket in a way that no one else in the NFL does or at least can do it consistently.

DeForest Buckner is the closest. Chris Jones can do it, but he plays far fewer snaps and it doesn't do it as much. Aaron Donald just changes the actual shape of the little bubble the quarterback stands in like every single play

and there is nobody that trope of like, oh, the offensive coordinator stays up late to think about this player. Yeah, for Aaron Donald, that's actually true. He has so much real estate in the minds of the offensive linemen who deal with him every week. I can't take it away from him. Have you seen him sort of like campaigning

to get single teamed, which I think is hysterical? He keeps giving interviews where he's like, come on, just try it. And it's like, like, Little Red Riding Hood, like come into the house. Well, this started germinating for, me with that Bill's game where there was just what I called the Aaron Donald drive where he just every single play was oh, Aaron McDonald's bringing Josh out into the ground again.

Dwight Howard was was better than Derek Rose the year that he won the MVP. So if I dispute that, am I going to get kicked off this podcast? I don't know. I'm not one to defend Dwight Howard. I'm just saying that I'm looking at wind shares right now and Dwight Howard. It went LeBron, Dwight, Chris Paul, then Derek Rose. I love the like soft. sigh into the microphone and then I'm looking at wind shares right now. I'm looking. How do you feel about Dwight Howard winning a title, but it happening for the Lakers?

How does that make you feel? I don't care that much. I mean, so I don't think, I think this happens kind of often in basketball where, I mean, it's not like soccer or even football where it's like, this guy's so associated with this team.

And then they're not going to go to another team. They're not going to go to the rival. Right. You know, like Jay Cutler's not going to go back up Aaron Rogers, right? and I don't think I don't think that that offer is coming necessarily but I'm just saying that I think it happens

like I remember being slightly upset like Richard Lewis who I just adored with the magic went to go play for the LeBron Heat and then it's like no one actually cares like Richard's not like oh man if I don't take this few million bucks to win a ring I'm gonna I want to preserve my relationship with the magic

like no magic fan thinks like that basketball is just a different game I mean you sounded like you cared a little bit um no I'm just trying to to think about, I'm just trying to process my Atlanta Magic feelings, which is just a different podcast, I think. Okay. Fair. Just reminded me when Kaelin said he didn't have a burner. It is.

Like what Kaelin said he didn't have a burner. Does anyone have a strong rookie of the year take? That Clyde Edwards E. Laird's last name is pronounced with the E. That's really it. I mean, that's the only take I have. Yeah. He's running away. And that I'm going to continue to bang the drum that Jordan loves you give votes for making Aaron Rogers so pissed off.

He wins the MVP. I wish I could come up with a take it. That's a good one. I mean, it's probably Joe Burrow, but whatever. All right. Coming up, MVP award, assistant coach of the year, but first, a quick break. Assistant of the year. Nora Princiotti.

Okay. So I really want to go with Booth Shottie, but I'm going with Bill Callahan for coaching the Brown's offensive line. I love that. But I just don't, it can't, so here's the thing. It can't be Brian Schottenheimer. It has to be booth shoddy. It's like shotty.

Skybox shoddy. Yeah. But my real pick, Bill Calli Ann, Brown's offensive line is third in ESPN's past block win rate. Second run block win rate. They upgraded the talent and he's done a really good job getting those guys like Conklin worked in. And there's guys like Wyatt Teller who are playing better than than they have in the past. So, you know, it really showed.

last week against Dallas when they were able to have Chub go out and still be running the ball really effectively. So I think that's going to be kind of their identity and he is going to get a lot of credit for it. So move over, Booth, Shottie. I'm of the opinion. There's just a lot of good offensive minds who deserve a lot of credit. Guys like Brian Daible, Arthur Smith,

who we've talked about, Eric B. Enemy, who's going to get his choice of head coach and jobs here in a couple of months. And all three of those guys will probably get head coaching jobs in January. If I'm circling somebody that I've just been hugely impressed with who was maybe off my radar for either a head coaching job or even this award a couple of weeks ago, it's Colts Defense coordinator Matt Iberfluse. So Iberfluse was hired under the three-day Josh McDaniels regime.

Who could forget? Which we all just agreed to never bring up ever again. And the fact that. Reich inherited him, empowered him, did all this stuff, is really impressive to me. This Colts defense is unbelievable. Part of that is Chris Bauer, the GM, but part of that is just scheme. As we talked about on the Sunday show, DeForest Buckner and Justin took over that game on Sunday. The back end, Darius Leonard's obviously been a little bit hobbled with the back end with

Kenny Moore, Julian Blackman, a rookie who's who sealed the game for them on Sunday. So, Javier Rhodes, who is quite good, if not an MVP or a defensive player of the year candidate. I think that this is just a defense that if there's just incremental improvement Philip Rivers is is going to get them into legitimate AFC title game type contention. Like I expect them to be one of the final eight teams left in the NFL and then who knows what happens with the seating and maybe they're playing in the AFC title game. This is a legitimately good team and legitimately great defense. I agree.

I think you're right. I mean, this is the highest scoring point season of all time so forth through a month. and the cults haven't allowed more than a dozen points since week one. They're just playing really well. And also the interesting part to me is the sign to me of a great assistant is he changed Frank Reich's mentality as a coach. Frank Reich was talking this week and he said that he's an aggressive, offensive coach. He wants to go for it and forth.

He wants to go for and fourth and goal. I mean, this is, you know, it's like he's on the Eagle staff when they did the Philly Special. He goes for it. And this week when they were playing the Bears, he was explaining that he had so much confidence in their defense that was fourth and goal from the three. He kicked a field goal. And he's like, I want to go out.

I want to go for that nine times out of ten. but my confidence in this defense, combined with how good the Bears' defense is I wanted to make sure that the defense knew I had trust in them. And when an assistant is doing so well and the defense is doing so well that it changes the mentality of a coach and how he's behaving, that to me is really impressive,

especially since there's so much offense this season. Kenne Jones. I'm going with Brian Dabble. I mean, when you look at the, you know, improvement that we've seen from Josh Allen. And, you know, I'm not going to give his assistant coach all the credit for, you know, the job that Josh Allen has done. But, I mean, this dude is completing a lot more of his passes.

He's a much more accurate player. I think obviously, you know, some of the skill players that they brought in, Stefan Diggs, Gabriel Davis, another really good being addition from this offseason. I think what Dabble was done with this offense, despite its running game, you know, I think it's 31st in rushing offensive DVOA. But the passing game is literally carrying it, ranks third, and the entire offense is fifth in the offensive DVOA. So I think that when you look at what Dabble was done against some of the opponents

that the bills have played this year and the fact that you have Josh Allen playing at the level that he's played at so far I think he's got a really strong case for it. I think they're like third. I don't have this in front of me, but I think they're third in use of motion at the snap. And that's been really cool

because it just seems like the lanes that it opens up with, you know, you have such an athletic quarterback in Allen who, to his credit, it seems like he's, now there are still the like crazy Josh Allen moments, but he's a little bit less like hero ball insanity. And the combination of the way that Daible is like moving stuff around

and getting defenses going in the wrong direction when you have that like dual threat quarterback who's all of a sudden passing accurately downfield, it's really like we've talked about it a lot. But that's a really cool marriage of quarterback and play caller. If I'm a head coach who doesn't call the plays and my coordinator is not using motion and play action all the time, I'm calling a meeting.

That's all I'll say about that. You mean the Giants? What would you say to Jason Garrett, who does not use motion? I would say a lot of things to Jason Garrett. I would say a lot of things to Jason Garrett. All right, I don't think, for me, the reason I didn't want to do rookie of the year or even comeback player of the year is because those things take an entire season

to reveal themselves. I mean, obviously, I agree with Kaylee. that's C.E.H is going to win offensive rookie of the year, but I think that if you were to start guessing rookie of the years, yeah. You don't think it's Burrow or Herbert? I haven't seen, I'm like, Herbert has, both those guys have balled out the last three weeks, but I mean, they have 13, 12 more weeks to go. That's all. Who do you, you think it's going to be Burrow or Herbert? Yeah, I do, because I think quarterbacks who play well just disproportionately get the credit. I think CEH. There's a cognitive dissonance

that we're saying every running back who's been plugged into Kansas City has been playing well and CEH is playing well. He's not playing unbelievable. He's having issues scoring from the goal line, which is a problem to me. And then, I don't know, I just think if Burrow ends up leading Cincinnati to a better record anything seven to nine or up,

or if the Chargers play well under Herbert and they get to, if either of those teams make the playoffs to me, I think that that's like just a quarterback who plays 15 or 16 games, if there are 15 or 16 games, and they play well doing it, I think are going to have an advantage over the back. I'm with Danny. I think it would be Burrow.

I don't think they need to make the playoffs either. So Kyler won it last year. The year before was Saquan the year before was Alvin Kamar. Rookie of the year, it usually doesn't matter if you're on a good team. Winner of a rookie of the year is a cool person. Clyde is a cool name, but like, if you go that on the list, only cool people win. It has to be, I'm serious.

Read the list of rookies of the year, offensive. They're all cool players who had a narrative coming into the league and then made a splash initially. But it was not an accident. What narrative that Alvin Kamara had, besides I was hyping up in the podcast. Well, you were ahead of the curve. To be a touchdown in every game.

It's very, is very. Sam Bradford won. Is Sam Bradford cool? Everyone after him. Ignore him. But Odell, Eddie Lacey is the coolest guy you know. You're leaving off Odell who won the year before Eddie Lacey.

Yeah, and Todd Gurley. Todd Gurley's cool. That's a pretty cool group. I have a friend who currently has Camara, like, carrying his fantasy team. And he's not from the U.S. And like, doesn't really care about football and doesn't know who any of these people are. and he's taken to calling Alvin Camara the gentleman Camara.

So now whenever I see him, I call him the gentleman in my head. So that's why he won rookie in the year. Can we get that going? I think Burroughs it because he's cool. The gentleman? Burrow is cool. I would like to get it going.

Is there any read either way on whether Justin Herbert's cool? He could be. The hair band, but I mean, the door is open. I shouldn't judge people for the hair, but the hairband

is tough for that. I really like Justin Herbert, and I don't mean to insult him. Joe Burrow is a lot cooler than Justin Herbert, and that's okay. I'm like a very lame person, so that's fine. But if we're going to be real here.

Yeah, there's no shade here. It's just Justin Herbert didn't smoke a cigar and have a photo taken of him looking like Joe Namath in the locker room after he won by LSU. Smoking a cigar after the Rose Bowl is a little bit different than smoking a cigar for National Championship game. There were no opportunities for Justin Herbert.

Let Herbert Cook MVP award, Nora Preciati. Russell Wilson, speaking of chefery. He's cooking. He's going to win the MVP. That's it. He's completing 75% what about Aaron Rogers. What about Aaron Rogers? Aaron Rogers is lovely, but you are discounting the fact that we're getting Chris Collinsworth

his vote back and it's going to push Russ over the top. There's no evidence he's gotten his vote back. We're going to make it happen. I also think that. we're really not what we have yet to consider is the, um, D.K. Metcalf Russ for MVP internet campaign that's going on. And I think it's going to have a profound impact on this race. He's on pace for 64 touchdowns and four picks. Yes. I can see both sides. I'm going to play both sides. If I were to guess, I'm going to guess

Wilson. And that's a Bruce Grikowski, our first guest also said. Uh, but I think it's going to be I think it's going to be similar to the last couple years where on December 1st we have no idea and then there's a couple primetime games late and everything works itself out. That would be my guess. Kaelin Jones, MVP. Wow, I should pick everyone on here

who was not picking Aaron Rogers. Like, I almost nominated Jordan Love because he's pissed off Aaron Rogers so much that this dude has thrown 13 touchdowns, no picks through four games, is throwing to dudes like Robert Tanya. Also shout out to Megan Schuster because she called it, way in advance that Robert Toniam was going to go off on Monday night.

Like, Aunt Rogers is having a stupid good season. He's smiling on the sideline. He is enjoying football. And he's the most aesthetically beautiful pastor that, you know, I think I've ever seen in my life. He'll put him up there with Marino. He's going to win MVP unless, you know,

somehow Green Bay falters down the stretch. And even with Russell Wilson, I think that because he has Tyler Lockett, he has a DK Metcalfe. He has a Greg Olson. I mean, Aaron Rogers is drawing to do that he's meeting outside the stadium before the games and saying, hey, go in there, run like, you know,

criss-cross routes against the doggone Atlanta Falcons defense and score touchdowns because I'll get you the ball. MVP. I'm looking at strength of schedule going forward. Packers have a moderately tough schedule. The Seahawks have a pretty easy schedule going forward, actually. This is according to PFF. Are you trying to, like, motivate Aaron Rogers?

Are you saying that you can't? I am trying to motivate. I'm telling you, Kevin, you're going to win MVP because you're going to motivate Aaron Rogers. We're all going to win MVP. Aaron Rogers' doubter of the year. Well, didn't they give Steve McNair and Peyton Manning co-MvPs one year? Why don't we just co-Aren Rogers and co-Jordan Love? They can share it.

I bet Aaron Rogers would love that. I think that there were, and Barry Sanders and Brett Far have co-won the MVP as well. Wow. Yeah. Really? Wow. That was not alive for that, Danny? How old are you?

Technically. I was born in 2009. Do you remember any of the giants when the giants were good? It's my only memories, actually. Yeah. Yeah, I think that it's, I think it's going to be, I think this MVP race is going to be fascinating. I think that there's been more talk of MVP this year earlier than normal.

And there's also been a number of people who are like, why are we all talking about the MVP race in September? It is, and this is something Nora and I talked about a couple weeks ago. To me, it's almost like what the Heisman trophy has gotten to be, where it's like on September 20th, everybody's like, who's, I've been a candidate.

And that to me is fun. Like, I don't, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to shame people who start arguing with MVP in September and October. I think it's fun.

And I think it's another thing to debate. And I also think that it's just a good way, a good prism through which to view the season. And right now, this is in the NFC, it's Seahawks and the Packers season. And then, and whether anybody else can get into the debate.

And also, as far as who gets the credit for stuff, you know, we talked about assistant of the year and executive of the year, and coach of the year, MVP is just another extension of that where it's like we have to start assigning credit when a team is good and MVP helps with that. Any of the thoughts, guys?

D.K. Metcalf is tweeting about MVP, so we should be podcasting about it. I agree. And there's odds. And Xavier Rose is on the defensive player of the year chart. So there we go. All right, we'll be back on Sunday. Well, Nora and I'll be back on Sunday. Danny, what's up with fantasy? The rest of you guys can come too. No, Danny, tell us about, tell us about the ring of fantasy football show. Just killing it in the charts. Come listen to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show.

If you're listening to this, you probably noticed Danesuoy football was on this very feed for a couple of years. We're at the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. So come check us out. Me, Danny Kelly, Craig Horlebeck. Yeah, all fantasy. Monday's Wednesday, Friday's. Kaylon, you've been cranking on the website. What are you writing this week?

Talking about why the Cardinals have been struggling. You know, Kyler Murray and Co. They just have not been able to get the deep ball going. So we're going to analyze that. Kevin, you should read that one. Yeah, I hate it. I hate this Cardinals struggle, struggle boss. that the Cardinals are currently on.

And everyone can follow Kalin as non-hacked Twitter account. Yeah. And wait, wait, before we go, we do have to talk, are you going to shave this mustache or not?

I'd like you to keep it. I'm not going to reveal that in a random midweek episode. That's content. Oh, that's Sunday up. Oh, okay. You're right. No,

it's not Sunday. It's just, it's its own special content. I just, whatever it is, whatever decision is made is kind of, it will be a separate piece of content. We will sort that out.

But yeah, I have a mustache right now. We'll have a mustache next week. I don't, I mean, listen, I'm just taking it one week at a time, you know? I'm just preparing for Sunday. So was Bill O'Brien.

So was Bill O'Brien. We have to stop talking about Bill O'Brien. The mustache and the beard are the coach and GM of facial hair. You know what? It's the thing that Bill O'Brien has the most in common with Bill Belichick is the B.O.B., the head coach versus B.O.B., the GM takes. Yeah, it turns out Bill Belichick's really good of both of those things. Helps.

And Bill O'Brien, yeah. It's a little bit different. They had the same rules, but it's very, very different. It's like, you know, like Patrick Mahomes and,

and Ryan Finley play the same position. They just do it very different. Ryan Finley, wow. I saw Ryan Finley play in a scrimmage during training camp last year, and I remember just being like, you know,

I'd probably be a bad scout. Just like, just the eye test, just I'm not just incredible at it. I, it's pretty easy for me to figure out what's going all here with Ryan Finley. Like,

I got this. I got this one. I don't need anybody in the lead who's playing this one too. All right. It's been the Rangana Fellowship Linger Podcast Network. Bye guys.