The Ringer NFL Show - The Three Biggest Scouting Myths and Misconceptions | Big Board

Episode Date: March 26, 2021

'The Ringer Fantasy Football Show' hosts Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly are joined by The Ringer’s managing editor, Ben Glicksman, to discuss scouting myths and misconceptions about Heisman Trophy winner DeVonta Smith. Follow 'The Ringer Fantasy Football Show' for full episodes. Hosts: Danny Heifetz and Danny Kelly Guests: Ben Glicksman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On Fairway Rowland, Joe House and Nathan Hubbard are joined by a rotating cast of Ringer and golf world personalities to break down the latest in golf headlines and news. They also delve into the world of golf gambling. Check out Fairway Rowland on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. My name is Danny Hyfitz and I am joined by my co-host, the man whose laugh was voted best in high school. Danny Kelly. What's up, D.K. What's going on, man?

How did you remember that one? How could I forget that? Deep cut. Yeah. You may know. us from the ringer fantasy football show which we publish every wednesday and now we're also coming to you every friday until the draft here on the ringer NFL show with the big board we are ranking something related to the draft each week and today we are discussing devante smith the alabama receiver

the reigning heisman trophy winner and one of the most divisive players in the entire draft this year and we're going to rank all the red flags people have with them because there are takes there are takes out there and we had to bring in the only person we wanted to talk to about this subject. The managing editor of the ringer, Ben Glickman, Ben, would you describe yourself as an Alabama truther, conspiracy theorist? Like, what is your relationship with Alabama prospects?

One, thank you guys for having me. Two, it's very weird that I've become our Alabama, like, Stan on staff because, like, I've only been to... Like they needed one. Yeah, I've only been to Alabama once in my life, and that was in fifth grade for Space Camp. So maybe, you know, formative experience in my life and now ever since I've just been team rule tied.

Wait, how was Space Camp? Space Camp was great, you know? We did like landing simulations, zero gravity machines. The thing I remember most about Space Camp, though, is this was right when Sauer Skittles came out. So I just housed like 15 bags of that. So, you know, that's why they send you there. For some context, Ben is a big to a guy, big Devante guy.

So Ben, you even wrote like a really great article on Devonte Smith, kind of like how he, you know, put together the greatest college football season, maybe the greatest college football career as a receiver ever. And I thought, you know, we wanted to talk about him from the context of like why he is the outlier of outliers and why he sort of is representative of multiple different, you know, scouting red flags or things that, you know, scouts and teams look at that might maybe like throw these guys, like throw these teams off of players like this, number one, his size. number two, his age.

And number three, the fact that he's playing on a team with, you know, basically five or six first rounders. Over his career, it's probably been like six or seven first round picks. You know, at the receiver position, there's like four guys that are first round picks. Then, like, add in all the quarterbacks, offensive linemen. Irv Smith was a second rounder. Basically, surrounded by all this elite NFL, future NFL talent. So wanted to kind of just get into Smith as a prospect, why he's actually not, even despite everything. He's not actually my top receiver.

I got Jamar Chase number one, and you can kind of like go at me for that one, too. So just give us the big picture view of DeVante Smith as a prospect. So I guess to back up to what you're saying about college football, so, you know, college, I watched college football like really closely. Before I came to the ringer, I was the college football editor for Sports Illustrated. So I've been watching closely for a long time. Devante Smith, like, he did have the greatest college football receiving career ever. Like, it's like full stop.

It's a perfect career. Like, I guess I should say major college football career, like Jerry Rice toured up at Mississippi Valley State, but like slightly different level of competition. But like, yeah, like he had, you know, the fifth most receiving touchdowns in college football history. He had the only guys ahead of him on that list are from like Louisiana Tech in Western Michigan and Rice and stuff like, you know, lower level of competition. He had like the 23rd most receiving yards of all time. I think there's only five power conference guys ahead of him. And his 2020 season is like up there with like Randy Moss is 97, Michael Crabtree's 2007, Larry Fitzgerald's 2003 is like an all-time iconic wide receiver season. And he won the Heisman trophy for the first time since any receiver since Desmond Howard did it in 1991.

So like the context is like he is just like the greatest college football or most decorated college football wide receiver ever. Beyond that, there's the moments that he produced, right? he opened his career. How he really introduced himself to people was in the national championship game after the 2007 season, or 2017 season, rather, excuse me. He hasn't been in the college that long. Yeah. He is old, not that old. He caught the game-winning touchdown pass in overtime on one of the greatest plays in college football history.

And then he capped his college football career by making 12 catches for 215 yards and three touchdowns in the first half. like one half of the national championship game against Ohio State. So he's, you know, so decorated across the board, like champion across the board. But I think the thing that really stands out to me about him and why I like, you know, love him so much as a prospect is he makes it look so easy. Like, especially in the 2020 season, people knew Alabama was going to Devante Smith. Like it was very clear who their number one option was. But if you watch that Ohio State National Championship game, he is wide open. Like this would be like if you're like if the pack you're playing the packers and you're like, oh man, you know, we should really try to cover Devante Adams.

This guy is really sneaking up on us. So like if you're playing basketball and it's like, oh yeah, I guess Steph Curry is getting wide open. How do we keep letting that happen? That's basically what happened for his entire college career. So, you know, there are definitely concerns about him, but it's not only that he was historic and that he won everything both individual and team wide, but he also did it in a way that was like very transfixing that I can. can't really remember an exact parallel to in college football. So with all that said, D.K., you released a mock draft this week, and you have Devante Smith going where?

I have him going to the Bears at number 20, I believe. And this is the lowest I've put him in mock drafts. Ben direct message me on the side and was irate about it. Okay. So here's the most possible thing you could do to me is send DeVante Smith to the Bears, who I'm never going to have a good quarterback ever, just like, end his courteer now. that is like receiver purgatory. Yeah.

But so how do you square everything Ben just said with that happening? Yeah. So I guess like that is a good segue into like this whole discussion about the scouting red flags that are that he's associated with like number one. His size. He's a he's six foot one and he says he's 171, 70 pounds, 170 pounds, which might be being generous based on the fact that he refused to get weighed at both the senior ball and his pro day. So him telling us he's 170 pounds means he's probably more like 160, 65 pounds. He's very skinny. And I think that is like the big thing because, you know, basically there's just not a lot of precedent for a guy his size.

The guy that skinny going into the NFL and putting up the big numbers in the NFL, it's basically all these, you know, in the past. And this is a big talking point right now in draft community and just on Twitter and things. Like there's just the list of guys that size going into the NFL. it's a bunch of, you know, dedicated speedsters on the outside, boomer bus guys, most of them didn't really pan out. You know, you're Paul Richardson's of the world. And so I think there's a lot of people afraid. And I'm kind of included in this. Like, it does make me worried that he is essentially the size I was as a freshman in high school, a six foot 160 pounds.

So I think that like going into the NFL where you're going to be playing big physical corners. You know, you're going to have to, you can have guys kind of trying to. push you off your route. You're going to have to go over the middle a little bit. But I think it's just, you know, it's a more nuanced discussion than I think people are making it out to be. And it's ultimately not something I'm as worried about as a lot of people are. So I guess do you want to just get into like the numbers and the, you know, the history of the position in terms of his weight and everything right now or should, is there anything else to add on that? Let's just start the history. who are the other guys in his size-wise who've gone in the first round or just even close to it?

And he's 6-1-170 is what... Yeah, so we're assuming he's 170 pounds, which might be generous, but that's fine. If you look at the list of guys, at least from the last 20 years, basically the turn of the century, that have been 180 pounds or less. Very few have had high-end careers, I guess you would say, like, Pro Bowl-style careers. A few notables, Travis Benjamin, Harry Douglas, Deshaun Jackson. John Brown, Ted Ginn, Markese Brown. And I think people look at that list and it's very underwhelming.

Oh, that's generous. Yeah. People look at that list and they're like, okay, so this is what this guy's going to be. However, if you look at this and this is, I think this is where you have to get into it a little bit more nuances. Only two of those guys on that list were first round picks. So in other words, when they were coming into the NFL, the NFL didn't view these guys as elite players. They didn't view these guys in the same light as I think a lot of teams and NFL scouts view Devante Smith in terms of his talent, his playmaking building, all that. So of that group, there's basically only two other first round picks.

It's Marquis Brown and Ted Ginn. And, you know, Ted Ginn is sort of a punchline, but he's actually had a pretty damn good career, like 14 years in the NFL. Not a lot of guys do that. Okay, but he did not have, he was like the ninth pick or whatever. a top 10 pick. It's like he was never even a number one receiver for his own team. Go through the list of guys in his draft and how many

are still playing. Like you want guys that, but it's undeniably it's not a bus. Good for Ted Ginn to keep playing, but it's undeniably disappointing if you spend a top 10 pick and your own guy is like the third guy in your team for 14 years. So Ben, I'm curious. Suppose.

You saw Devante Smith play. Is it ridiculous to compare him to Ted Ginn or is that actually college-wise kind of not the worst comp? So I think it's, so I guess the big thing when you're running through that list of guys, right? Tedkin, Marquise Brown, Deshaun Jackson, all those guys you listed, how many of them are like 5-9 or 5-10? Like I feel like the tallest one of those guys is 5-11 at most. Yeah. Devante Smith is 6-1.

He is average receiver height. He's like very thin, but he's not like a small receiver height-wise. He's lanky. He's lanky. The other thing, and, you know, D.K., you can speak to this too. His arms are like alien arms. He basically looks like one of those like inflatable tube men, like in front of like a car dealership. If you just gave him like like just golden hands and also was like an elite route runner.

Like that is how he's built. So like it's a very different than like a small package for like Ted Gin. Right. So like I looked up just wingspan. His wingspan is and this is me, this is about the most draft talk I'll do because I'm here for the college football perspective. His wingspan is 78 and a half inches. That's like a bigger wing span than AJ.

Brown has. That's like two and a half inches bigger than Calvin Ridley. He's basically got the same wingspan as Russell Westbrook. So like we're like talking about like, you know, he's an outlier as far as weight, but he's also not a small guy and he's just as much of an outlier as far as wingspan. So like he is a very light receiver. Like I don't know what his weight size is. Like his jeans are probably like size 26. Like he is thin. But like he's tall and his like he's tall so he can get like jump over guys and his arms are just crazy long so i don't think i don't think he's an exact comp like his weight and this is an outlier but it's not the the only outlier thing about him and to that point i think it's the the length thing is huge and just his playing style in general

makes me very much lean to the to the side that this doesn't matter as much as people are making it seem like it matters you know what i mean it's like the way he plays number one he's in addition to be very long and smooth as a player. He's very sudden and quick. And I guess like the best word that I can think of is like he's slick getting off the line of scrimmage. Like he just doesn't struggle to get off the line of scrimmage. That's a big thing that the NFL, I guess, like would worry about with guys like this

is like you can just get up in their face and press them. But like when you go watch his tape, he just doesn't have problems really dealing with press. In fact, I saw this stat on Twitter. Patrick Claibon shared this actually from PFF. He was first in FBS and recess. exceptions, yards, and touchdowns last year against press coverage per PFF data. I think there are moments where he can get pushed off his route a little bit by bigger physical

corners. But at the end of the day, I don't think it's as like, it's like that big of a problem. He's so hard to get a hold of just because he's so, you know, like smooth and quick-footed and explosive in terms of the short area. In fact, I think he has like really good deep speed too. There's these concerns around him that he's not quite as fast as some of these other guys, but you see him run past, you know,

some of the good, like best corners in college football and like no problem. So to me, the skinny thing in terms of getting off press and dealing with bigger physical corners,

you just don't really see that on his tape. So to me, it's not alarming or, or a worrisome thing. And then the other thing that kind of goes into this discussion about size is,

you know, is he going to be able to go over the middle of the field? And is he going to be able to play in traffic and all those things? and like Ben, like exactly like you were saying, tell me about his like jump ball skills because this guy, to me he's just like

go-go gadget, arms, like he comes down with the ball and traffic every single time it feels like. Yeah, he's just built like an alien. Like I mean, I said it earlier, but like there's not... Wack inflatable arm flailing tube band. Exactly, exactly. Except, you know, a top 10 pick wide receiver

manifest into real life. But yeah, he's just incredible at high pointing the ball. I think to get to something you said about the press coverage though. One question I had, because I saw that stat, you know, that you mentioned about him, just like being first in catches and receiving yards and touchdowns against press coverage in college football this year. Do we think there's any world in which, like, it actually could benefit him that, like, he is as small as he is? Because opposing defensive coordinators are like, okay, we're going to play press coverage against this guy because he looks like he is, like,

just like a little stick figure. So, like, we're going to be able to rough him up. But actually, the thing that he is the best at is beating press coverage. So he almost like entices defensive coordinators to play one type of defense against him that he is uniquely suited to beat. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm in my own head about it. But it's like, it's because you went to space camp.

It's because I went to space camp. Exactly. You know, it's, but like there is, there is something to it that I think like a lot of football coaches are probably like, oh yeah, we can rough this guy around. We get up in his face. And then he just like, it's so slick that he gets past them. just absolutely toast that coverage. The first thing I think of is like,

he's the guy that you go and you're playing like pick up basketball at the park. And it's just like this little guy that doesn't really look like anything. And you don't pay any attention that all of a sudden he just like goes past you and just dunks it in your face. It's like, holy shit, where did that come from? But I think it's absolutely true though because, I mean, just the way you see him run past coverage too, I think people underestimate his deep speed too. It's like he's, I've compared him to a figure, or not a figure speter. speed skater in the way that he kind of just like glides and all of a sudden he's going like

25 miles an hour down the field he's just literally he has like a calm helmet that's not barely moving and yet he's just going downfield very um you know running past defenses getting behind the getting behind the safeties i just think with the skinniness concern i think that's legit and it makes sense that there's just not a lot of um you know precedent for it but at the same time there's just really a small sample size there he is the unicorns type receiver who is a true top 10 talent, but he's the size. And so the sample size for guys like that is like basically one. Ted Ginn, I guess you could say was the top 10 talent because he did go in the top 10. But I think it's like basically the sample size is two then. So I don't

know. I just think it's very, very interesting how we're kind of having this discussion where you're comparing him to guys who went in like the second, third, fourth round where these guys just weren't as highly thought of. Well, I want to elaborate the point that Ben made about press coverage. And I think it's important to just, the point of press coverage is the cornerback, or whoever, gets up in a receiver's face and, like, puts both hands on them and jams them at the line of scrimmage to disrupt

the timing of the route. But it's kind of easy to, like, misconstrue that, right? Like, receivers, like, a cornerback will try to jam D.K. Metcalfe at the line of scrimmage, and they'll get absolutely manhandled. And, like, you just, it looks embarrassing. But the cornerback still won, because

the point isn't to win a suma wrestling match. The point is to disrupt the timing. of the route, right? And then by the time it happens, the stuff's already, you know, as I was talking to Dominic Foxworth, actually about this yesterday, he was saying by the time that D.K. Metcalfe gets pressed,

Russell Wilson's looking elsewhere. And so the thing about a press, the best way to be depressed is not to be so big that you out muscle them. It's to not be there. It's where they reach their hands there. You already darted away.

It's about being agile. Devante Adams is not a great guy getting off the line of scrimmage because he's physically just outmushing dudes. It's they go to hit him and he already moved. He's gone. You can't get your hands on.

on him. So quick. Exactly. And that's why Devante Smith can be like look like a beanpole. It's like he can turn around sideways and looks like flat Stanley. He's not even standing there. But like he's not going to be there when you try to press him either. So like I'm not surprised actually. And so I think that that's where it's kind of backward. And to D.K.'s point about going over the middle of the field, I think there was this long period where the question was, can small guys be in the NFL because they're going to get hurt? I mean, those are the thing even with Lamar Jackson? Like is he too small? Is he too frail, honestly? Was not people saying it. people were thinking it, is he going to get hurt? And with receivers, especially going over the middle of the field.

But the games kind of changed. It's like the people really get hurt because they get creamed over the middle of the field anymore. Like, you can't really play that way. I mean, those hits are still there, but it's just way more, it's a way less common. And it's the NFL is trying to legislate those type of things out of game. I don't think it's the same anymore. You know, you can't have these big head hunting safeties and linebackers in the middle of the field anymore.

It's just everybody's getting smaller. It's more space game. Like, you have linebackers now, big linebackers. or 240 pounds now, whereas before they were 260 pounds or more. And more often you see 230 pounds. And sometimes you even have just basically pure safeties playing the linebacker position, depending on the type of coverage that they're playing. So, you know, they still have obviously a pretty big weight advantage over a guy like Smith.

And, you know, there's going to be plays where he's going to get pushed off his route. Like it's going to happen. But to the point where you're like, okay, I'm just not going to pick this guy. I don't think that's, I don't think it's that big of a deal because, you know, we see, look at Justin Jefferson, for instance. I mean, he's not a big physical muscle guy like the AJ Browns or D.K. Metcastle of the world. Justin Jefferson actually is another, quote, low BMI guy that went into the first round. He's sort of an outlier because he's skinny, tall, spindly type athlete, but he's so quick. And he's so just hard to get your hands on him because he has like these, you know, basically basketball moves.

is where he's getting. Like, he's into triple stands and he just blows past guys because he's so quick. I think Devante Smith has a very similar style game. So, yeah, I don't know if I'm necessarily too worried

about him going over the middle either. And he'd play so physical and so well in those jump ball situations that I think that is not going to be as big of a deal as people make it out to be either. Can I ask you guys just a question about, like, this size part of it? Because from my perspective,

as somebody who follows college more closely, this is so and you mentioned it it's so closely tied to injury risk right we think this guy's going to get injured how much does it matter that he has no injury history in college playing against like SEC competition you know there are other guys like his teammate jelan wattle for example missed almost the entire 2020 season with a fractured angle so he you know he isn't as slender as devante smith but he actually has an injury history devante smith has basically played every game over the past few seasons. I guess I'm just, like, from my standpoint, I would think people would be seen more as an injury risk if they had been injured previously. As opposed to somebody who is just like,

oh, that guy looks like a beanpole. Right. Well, and the other thing is like, is the fact that he, I guess this is getting into the, just the real questions, like, is him being skinny? Does that make him more likely to break his bones or something? Like, does he having fat like a Like, you know what I mean? I guess there's that question because he doesn't have like this long history of like soft tissue injuries and things like that. Which to me would be much more concerning. You know, for like a highly twitchy athlete when you get like a ton of hamstring injuries on your history or whatever, that's like, okay, this guy's not going to be very reliable. But Devante Smith, like you said, doesn't really have that.

So maybe just doesn't have hamstrings because I mean, you've seen his legs. We need to, we need to ask people to ask. ask him if he drinks a lot of milk. That's like the most important thing that we're in need to find out from Devonze. It's the draft process. No, so I don't think that the injuries

are as much of a thing. I think it's more about just, there's just like this implicit bias going on of like size, right? Like you also look at, I mean, I think this is kind of the receiver version of quarterbacks, right? Like we went through all the thing

of Baker being six feet, it's really 511. Kyler being 510, 511, whatever he is. Is this just a wide receiver version for height and now we're just addressing like weight basically? I mean, it might be, yeah, because if you look at Russell Wilson, for instance, like,

they called him the asterisk because he was... Who calls him the asterisk? There was a famous football outsider's article, basically that their quarterback prognosticating tool was like, Russell Wilson's going to be awesome. Everything about his college career tells us he's awesome. And he's the asterisk because he's 5'11, like pushing it. You know what I mean?

he's like 5'10 and 5-8s or whatever. Yeah, it's like tippy toes. Any quarterback who's like six-even is not six-even. That's like a rule. It's a Dustin-Pedger-Ruea rule. Yeah. And so when you were looking at Russell Wilson coming into the draft, it was like, yeah, he's awesome.

He has all the NFL tools, great accuracy, great arm. He's good decision-maker. He's mobile. Like everything you want, but he's 5-11. And I think it's the same exact conversation as Devante Smith. He has everything you want. All the skills are there, but he's skinny as hell. And so like Russell Wilson, obviously, there was a few guys sprinkled in an NFL history where they were that short and they succeeded.

But basically everyone was like, I'm not chasing this outlier. I don't want to do it. It's too big of a risk. Blah, blah, blah. He went to the third round, which is just insane to think about now. And then now you got Kyler Murray top overall pick. You know what I mean? Like Wilson opened the doors and Baker Mayfield top overall pick.

Like that, that is insane considering just a few years before that Russell Wilson fell in the third round. by probably having a better overall, like, prospect profile, you know, than these two guys. So, yeah, I think, you know, maybe that maybe Devonte Smith is opening up the, the NFL world to guys who are that small. I don't think, but the other thing is, like, there's just so few guys that are built like Devante that play like Devonte that it's not going to be like, it's not like he's going to open the floodgates for these skinny guys to go into the NFL necessarily. So I do think it is, though, just lack of precedent. and is working against him. Right. He's not a case study.

He's more an anomaly. I guess the question I would have about the whole size discussion broadly, is there a position or like where do we think a lack of size actually does make the biggest difference? Like do you guys, you know, you guys know the NFL far better than I do. Is there one spot where you're like, if you're undersized here, you actually are screwed? I think size, it's a lot more like there's thresholds. Like we talk about the top end more. And it's more just like you generally.

speaking, there are certain thresholds of athleticism, of size, of height, generally speaking, that you need to succeed at the position, obviously, but if you have certain ones, then you can make up elsewhere. Like, for example, Rondell Moore is like 5'7, but he's in the 99th percentile for athleticism, and it was an All-American at 18 years old. You know what I mean?

If you can balance it out, but generally speaking, you can't play defensive end if you're like 5'4, you know what I mean, 130 pounds. Like, it's every size, it's more that, do you have a certain, physical profile or athletic skills. And then generally speaking, you kind of need both to play in the NFL. It's kind of like how it's not an accident.

All these NBA players are really tall. It's the best and most athletic players within this tool or this pool of genetically gifted people. So that's kind of, but then it's at the same time, there are times where Baker Mayfield comes out and crush his college football. And all these college football fans are like, this guy's unbelievable. And then all the NFL people are like, but he's kind of short. I think so this this whole conversation I do think is actually super interesting because on one hand I'm like my instinct is to be like let's these these scouts that are doubting him because he's skinny that's so dumb like let him play like he's going to show you but at the same time you can't always chase outliers like outliers are outliers and there's a reason that players his size have not have basically like not been chosen as high hardly ever um I think

there's a reason NFL teams are wary of size limitations and in a lot of cases there's probably like hundreds of cases where they were right about that. You know what I mean? Like this guy's too small,

he's not strong enough, whatever, and they were right about it. So we can't completely like ignore the outlier traits and the outlier like red flags or whatever. But I think the idea here and what we're talking about

is like sometimes you can't completely also eliminate this player. Like do you remember having hearing conversations about Aaron Donald coming into the league. I know he went in the top 10 or 12 or what he went like number 12. She really busted out.

Yeah. Like people were genuinely very concerned that he was too short. And like, and it's like that was not like that was not done tongue in cheek. This was a legitimate concern. Now,

there are some defensive linemen that end up being too short. Like they just can't, you know, they can't get guys off their body, blah, blah, blah. They just get stuck on blocks, whatever.

But I think, at the end of the day, what I'm saying is, you know, don't always just immediately eliminate guys based on physical profiles. Brian Burns is another guy that comes in mind for me because there was like a lot of talk about him coming into the NFL a couple years ago where he was, I think people were talking about him being like 220, 230 pounds soaking wet. And like there's just not very many edge rushers that can that can succeed in the NFL at that size. He ended up being 250, I think, for the combine or pro day or something. he got up, he gained weight, ended up being fine in the NFL. He's been a good player in the NFL, but I think there was just like these massive, massive discussions about, you know, he's just too small.

He's too skinny. Look at the history of skinny pass rushers in the NFL. It's like terrible, terrible track record. So it happens at a lot of different positions, too. It's not just quarterback or receiver. One other thing I was just going to say about sort of the scouting reports that I've read with Devante so far is honestly sort of going back and reading all of these, the discussion around him is almost exactly the same as the scouting reports surrounding Kevin Durant when he entered the NBA.

You could honestly just take the Kevin Durant scouting reports, like copy paste them into like the Devante scouting reports for this year's draft. And they basically read exactly the same, just changing like field with court. And otherwise it's exactly the same. It's like incredible field for the game. Incredible field for the game. Like he's going to get pushed off his spot, but can like absolutely take over and leave. a defense feeling shell-shocked. It's the exact same thing.

Obviously, like, a very different cross-bore comparison, but, you know, I do think it is worth noting that it's the exact same conversation as surrounded KD. Yeah. So the other thing with Devante, though, that I think is really intriguing is it's not just that he's been. I think it's also weird that the talent he's playing around him at Alabama, there's a chance that he actually goes down in the NFL

in terms of the offensive talent. It's not impossible. Like he played with three other first round picks on his team. His offensive line is like littered with all Americans. Like obviously Alabama has great quarterbacks. And so I'm just curious what you think, Ben, about how weird it is to separate his performance there versus just being in a system where Alabama seems unstoppable. It's like the best offense in the history of college football. How do you pull those two things apart?

Over his entire career or for 2020 in particular? Because I do think there's a difference. So, okay, so for 20. 2020 in particular, I mean, they had Najee Harris, but outside of that, they didn't have that much. Like, they had a great offensive line. We'll see what happens with Mack Jones. But Jalen Waddle missed most of the year with a fractured ankle. Like, Devante Smith had, I think, 40% of the teams receiving yards and 45% of the teams receiving touchdowns. Like, he was the guy. Like, you guys are like the fantasy guys too. So you can tell me what target share is. But like, and get into all of that stuff. But like, 40% of the.

teams receiving yards and 45% of the teams receiving touchdowns doesn't make it seem. Yeah, it doesn't make it seem like they're like spreading the ball around. Like this is not an equal opportunity offense. I think when you look at his entire career, you know, there's definitely a lot more of a case. Like last year, Waddle was healthy. They also had Jerry Judy. They also had Henry Ruggs. Like this team was loaded. I think the thing that's worth noting is in, even in 2019, Devante Smith was still Alabama's leading receiver. Like over G. Judy overrugs. Like the way that I sort of try to think about this stuff in, you know, from the college

perspective is does the quarterback, does the team try to prioritize him over that other talent? Do they trust him more than those other guys? Like you look at some of the great college football receiving rooms in recent history. Like I think of Clemson when they had DeAndre Hopkins. They had Sammy Watkins. They had Martavis Bryant. They had, I think, Adam Humphreys, and they had one other guy on the, Oh, Dwayne Allen, Dwayne Allen and Andre Ellington.

This was all in the same team. This was one roster. Basically, though, like, Martavis Bryant, you know, they didn't ask him to do very much, even in college. They said, like, okay, we're going to lean really heavily on Sammy Walkins. We're going to lean really heavily on D'Andre. But, like, Martavis were just, like, not really going to him that much other than asking him to run deep and lobbying it to him. That was kind of rugs, honestly, at Alabama in 2019, where they just didn't go to him that much. he was their third receiver.

The top two were clearly Judy and Devante. So when I look at these rooms, I try to see like, okay, is the quarterback trusting him? Does the team prioritize him? And if they're still standing out amid that, then I think, you know, you can at least separate it to a certain degree, at least from the college perspective, is sort of how I parse it. Ben, you mentioned the fantasy side of it. Like I'm looking at player profiler.com right now at Devante Smith's, uh, pro file here.

College Dominator rating, which is a measure of his yardage share and a touchdown share. They're getting better of branding stats postman. This is great. I love this. We'll start out with his college target share, which is 34.6%, 95th percentile for receivers coming into the NFL. College Dominator, which is a combination of touchdowns and yards, yardage share, touchdown share and yardage share, 51%, which is unheard of, 96 percentile.

So the production thing is definitely not worry. especially when you consider the fact that, like you said, going back to 2018, he was playing behind Jerry Judy, first rounder, Henry Rugg's first rounder, and he was playing alongside Jalen Waddle, who will probably be a first rounder, Irv Smith, second rounder. Absurdt amount of talent in that passing game. And then even going back the year before that, when he was a freshman in 2017, he was playing behind Calvin Ridley, who's like a first rounder and future NFL star.

So that is the context, I think, that you have to keep in mind when you're talking about the system and, you know, whatever, like all the, the arguments that he's just like this product of playing in a good offense. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think that's very important. This is a little off topic, but I wanted to get into the Tua versus Mac Jones discussion since we're talking about how it's a matter of time. We're here. I feel like I got to stretch out here, warm up for this discussion. That was the biggest fan of Tua Tua Tua, outside of probably.

his immediate family in the entire world. You were touting him when he was like a prospect, when he was a recruit, when he was a backup, you basically said the whole season, they should play him. And you shouted some of the rooftops. Privately, we all thought you were a little crazy

and kind of losing it. We were like, oh, whatever's got some screws loose? And then he comes in in the halftime of the championship game, and he wins. And it was like the best day your life. I think it was the best day in my life. I mean, I guess, you know, please don't tell my wife. But yeah, it was a good one.

So I have a dumb question. Why is, like, did Matt Jones have a season that was not almost as good as Tua's, but like Mac Jones just had a really good season. There's the word out of Alabama seems to be all these receivers kind of seem to prefer back Jones over Tua. And yet Tua was like, should he go top number one? Should he go top five? And then now it's like Matt Jones.

We're like, he's just the cast off. He's like the, he's just like the black sheep of his fourth, five quarterbacks. Yeah. What is, why is, what is the deal here? So there's a couple things. One, as to, like, the receivers saying that they prefer Mac Jones to Tua, like, I don't put much stock into that because obviously you're going to help the guy who's, like, trying to boost his chances of getting a job versus the guy who's already secure in, like,

his future. It's like, who does it help if they say they prefer to it? They're just like, oh, we're going to drop Mac Jones way down our draft boards. You're like, might as well, like, help your friend and teammate out. Like, there's no downside to them saying it that way. I think as far as the difference is like Tua is just much better improvisationally. Like the he can create plays when things break down in a way that Mac Jones just like can't. Mac Jones, I mean, D.K., you can talk about like the actual, you know, playing styles.

But with Tua, it was like mesmerizing. Like he had, you know, certain like off platform, however you want to describe the, you know, scout talk about this. He just makes something out of nothing better than almost anybody I've ever seen at the college level. And he did that. He seemed like he was playing in an extremely risky way, but also had like the highest completion percentage in college football and was the most efficient quarterback in college football history at the time he left campus. Mack Jones is basically just being asked to like, you know, run the system, which he's done an incredible job at it.

But when things break down, he's just like not as good in that particular regard. So I'm curious about, I'm curious your thoughts on that. And then I have another, I guess, point I want to make just about the trajectory of Alabama football in sort of Tua's role in that. Because I think that's another reason that there's like a difference in the way that it's discussed between him versus Mac Jones. Yeah. I think so my initial reaction to is that it feels like a little bit like people are forgetting how dynamic Tua was as a quarterback. You know what I mean? And they're forgetting for a very important reason.

watching him as a rookie, he's coming back from a debilitating, potentially career-ending hip injury, where it really did feel like it sapped a lot of his, you know, for lack of better word, like athleticism, I guess, a dynamism is his ability to move around, be explosive in the pocket or whatever. He just felt like with the dolphins this year, he just felt a little bit like a game manager. And I think people are sort of remembering that and then projecting it onto his college career, if that makes any sense? Like, does that sound right to you? Can I ask you guys just the Tua discourse, you know, obviously I spend a lot of time thinking

about it. It's just completely baffling to me. Some people are wife guys. You're a Tua guy. You know, we are who we are. We are who we are. Obviously, he came back from the debilitating injury. That's been mentioned a lot of times.

Like, the thing that hasn't been mentioned a lot, I think, is who on Miami's offense last year was good beyond him. Like, like, as far as like so offensive line, was their offensive line good? Like, you know, I checked like PFF just because, okay, so they had bad offensive line. They were surprisingly good for how bad the players in the line. They weren't bad, but they weren't good. Okay. It was like Eric Flowers who was ran out of New York because he was a subway turn style and then was

competent. Everyone's like, oh, wow, wow. Okay, great. So they had that. How about the like skill position players? Mike Gisicki and Miles Gaskin? Like who? Rawton.

Yeah, they had a lot of updates. And then Devante Parker was kind of hurt. The other aspect of this that I don't think is discussed enough is so the offensive coordinator, Chan Galey, who's no longer with the dolphins, didn't trust him, didn't really let him run the playbook. Also, the only reason Chan Galey was brought to Miami was because of his experience working with Ryan Fitzpatrick at prior stops. Like, he was the head coach of Ryan Fitzpatrick for the builds. He was the offensive coordinator for Ryan Fitzpatrick for the Jets. Like, of course he wants to use Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's like a 70-year-old OC whose entire career is.

built on working with this one quarterback. So, like, he's got bad teammates coming off a major injury with an offensive coordinator who wants to use the other guy and doesn't trust him. Am I missing something here? Like, he could have played better, but, like, it seems like there's a lot of context that could signify him being, like, a lot better in 2021 than 2020. Yeah, the other piece of context is in the old days, and that's even going back, like, maybe, say, five years, he would have had such a longer leash in terms of, like, people,

judging what he's doing it you know what I mean like forkin Patrick Mahomes didn't even play as a rookie and you know what I mean like it's you give these guys so much longer of a of a buildup time to prove what they have in the NFL nowadays it feels like oh they didn't look good in their eight starts this year so therefore let's draft another guy because we have a high pick and we saw that with Josh Rosen and it worked out for the Cardinals but right I don't think it's necessarily it should be or going to be the norm for teams to do that to to ditch guys after one year if it's like medium level play like medium to bad level play you know what mean like give him a chance to let him get healthy first of all that's the other thing and then i i guess

just give him a longer runway to work with i think is like the thing here that like it just seems like that's changed a lot in the last couple years right the the other thing i guess with tua and this gets back to your question hyphitz about sort of the difference between him and mac jones is you know alabama is seen as like the death star of college football right like they win a bunch of championships and they have basically i mean i think sabin has won seven championships there now um or maybe seven total and six there it's something ridiculous losing count that's when exactly exactly exactly so up until recently though like the model was not just blow people out with offense like this was a team defined by like the danta high towers

and the corny upshaws and the mink of fitzpatricks like this was a team that won with defense and running the ball down your throat with derrick henry or mark ingra or Trent Richardson or whoever it is. Like, they basically had game manager quarterbacks. The guys that were winning national championships were A.J. McCarron and Greg McElroy and Jacob Coker. And like none of these guys had NFL careers because they weren't good. Basically, in that 2007 national championship game,

in that 2007 national championship game, that was Nick Saban kind of admitting, like, I have to actually, like, go to this new style of offense because they had Joe and and her team. I love that you keep confused. using 2007 and 2017. Like the whole decade was a blur. You know, I like Devante.

am just too old to succeed for my own good. But that national championship game, Jalen Hertz was the starting quarterback. This is before he transferred. He threw for 21 yards in the first half against Georgia. They were down 13-0. 21 yards. He was three of eight passing.

They had to make a change. And this is when Nick Sabin basically blew up his entire old system. Like, he'd never played freshman. In the second half, he subbed in. Tua, Devante, Rugs, Judy, and Najee Harris. None of those guys played the first half. Is that because they were playing together, like, in the practice team and stuff like that? They were the B team because he didn't play freshman.

Like, he doesn't, like, Nick Saban never liked playing freshman. He was an old school coach and then basically realized he wasn't able to compete. So Alabama's entire offensive transformation, like, it's not like Tua is the system guy. Like, he changed the system. The system, like, changed because of him. Oh, I love that. He's like the fulcrum of how Alabama just like adopted an entirely new style where Mack Jones sort of came afterwards after they had like transformed into adopted like,

okay, I guess we're not going to just try to run the ball 75% of our offensive plays anymore. So and there's like a few because Alabama is the death star and they get the best prospects at like every. This has become a Bama Potom. Yeah, it really is. But like there's other schools like this, right? Where it's like Ohio State's been cranking out defense events. and then like you've got Oklahoma with the quarterbacks with Baker, Heisman number one pick, Kyler, Heisman number one pick,

Jalen Hertz came in Heisman voting. And so, Dika, I'm curious, like, as someone who's, like, evaluating these prospects, how do you, like, at some point does it become a self-fuling prophecy? Like, there's pros and cons to evaluating position that is such a history of success where you know they are getting the best talent and obviously they're producing. But then how do you spot the differences?

Like, what are the challenges of evaluating guys at El Alabama or Ohio State or Oklahoma where they're surrounded by so much talent versus evaluating prospects at like a lesser school where someone's standing out, but you don't understand the level of competition. I mean, to put it short quickly, it's very hard. Like, I think it's like you've seen how successful NFL teams are at this shit. Like, it's hard. It's very hard. I think what you have to do is you try and have to try and separate the traits and, you know, like the things that a quarterback does well. Generally speaking, like accuracy has always been so important to me, like, as something, you know,

and PFF does special accuracy charting where they're like not only charting like completion percentage, justice completion percentage, but like ball location, where they're hitting their receivers, things like that. Like I think that's really important. But at the same time, Baker was like off the charts, you know, accurate in college. And like that was something that was like, wow, this guy's going to be an awesome pro. And I think the jury's still a little bit out on him on that. I think he did definitely, like, silence some of the doubts last year with the way he played. But I wouldn't say people are outside of Cleveland, maybe are super excited about him as, like, a dynamic top-tier quarterback still.

Thank God they filmed all this progressive commercials like a couple of years ago. I know, right? Because they got a bank and there's cranking them out. So I think maybe that, like, made me a little less apt to really focus in on the accuracy numbers, especially with the way Josh Allen plays. this year where you looked at Allen's accuracy in college, it was like, there's no way this fucking guy is going to be good in the pros. And he has been. Well, this last year anyway, he was very good.

So I think basically what I'm trying to get at is like it's very, very hard to do. It's like impossible to predict how a player is going to develop. But to me, you have to look at the tools, obviously, the accuracy, the decision making. I think a lot of teams, and this is something that's very tough to determine from the outside looking in, but like the guy's ability to go up on like the board and and draw up offenses and

look at defenses and know what he's supposed to do and talk to his teammates and all the like that stuff like the stuff that happens in your head is becoming John Gruden right now. Yeah. Like spider white can you go on can you go on gruden grinders or what was it called the gruden football camp? It was like no but the crude and grinders. But the Gruden Grin Grin. Cupid.

Yeah. Hunter Renfro's the Gruden Grinder. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. In perpetuity. It's so true though. honestly that it makes a lot of it makes a huge difference whether this guy can process quickly and

that was actually going back to two a one thing i loved about too is man his processing speed is just incredible he just gets the ball out quickly makes decisions like you know instantaneously things like that um if you're looking at this class you know the guys like zach wilson guys like trade lance they played inferior competition this last year they put up great numbers obviously lance played in 2019 because he only got one seat one game this year you have to really just look at like the tools and the way that play people love the way that Zach Wilson can make plays out of structure he can move around in the pocket he can throw off platform he can he has a really quick release he has a very good accuracy there's like all these

tools but at the end of the day you're like okay but what's you going to look like versus NFL coverages and NFL defenses that's like how do you do that I don't know how to do that like I'm just going to tell you I don't know how to do that I'm going to try because I'm going to look at his tools and try and predict how that's going to translate. But I'm going to tell you right now, the NFL teams are struggling to do this too. So to answer your question, there is not really a way to do it. But I think you have to really try and focus on the tools and the traits. And I think especially now in the Josh Allen era, where he really is sort of like the archetype

of take, let's take a guy with tools and we'll develop him. And it's probably going to lead to a lot of misses down the line because like, for whatever reason like future quarterbacks aren't just going to have the exact combination of traits that Josh Allen has. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm rambling now, but basically what I'm saying is it's impossible. Well, you mentioned the tools that are difficult with evaluation. And there's one interesting one, especially with Devante Smith and receivers that's kind of cropping up, which is called breakout age. And basically it's, it's, this math that goes into it. Ben mentioned 45% of Devante Smith had like 45% of Alabama's yards.

Breakout age is basically, how old were you when you got 30% of you're receiving yards for your team? There's a lot of formulations to it, but basically, when did you start dominating in college? When were you the guy for your team? And we'll put like a statistical threshold on that, but when were you the guy? And basically the theory is,

the younger you're the guy, the more likely it is you'll be good in the NFL. Because if you need three or four college seasons until you're dominating college football, you probably might not be as good as the guy who showed up at 18 or 19 years old and dominated. And I think it's interesting because you look at Dominator, you've got your March Ace is your number one receiver, DK. But then you've also got Devante Smith number two. And Devante, this is kind of the weird part with his senior season is that he's 22 years old, which, I mean, is young.

But in college football, it's kind of like ancient, right? Especially for guys who are supposed to be declaring as like redshirt sophomores or like juniors or like juniors or whatever. And so there's this theory that the fact that Devante Smith needed to wait till his senior season to be dominating sophomore cornerbacks is actually a little concerning, which is a little galaxy brain because you just look at him playing and you're like, that's obviously the best player in the field. Do you put any stock into that D.K.? The idea that just roughly speaking, the younger you are dominating, the better you'll be in the NFL. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I put a lot of stock into it. I don't think it's everything. And I think that there's context with Devante Smith that we can talk about. I want to get into.

But like I just every time I think about breakout age, and breakout age is specific to receivers and fantasy realm and the dynasty realm. It's like receivers and tight ends and it's important there. But it's also true for like pass rushers, I think in the NFL. Like if you're an old pass rusher that broke out your super senior season and basically didn't do anything until you were, you know, playing against 19 year olds, that's our huge red flag. I think the same thing can be applied to, you know, the receiver position or several other positions.

Basically, like, for context. You know, DeVante Smith, incredible career, but his top season, his best season, by far, he was 22 years old. If you compare that to Jamar Chase, 2019, 84 catches, 1,700 yards, 20 touchdowns. He did that as a 19-year-old. So he was three years younger than Devante. When Devante was 19, he caught 42 passes for 693 yards and 6 touchdown. So that is the context, I think, that people look at. Now, I'm not saying that that's eliminating Devante Smith for me, because we talked about the context of who he was playing behind, the team that he was on.

He was on a team with Jerry Judy, Calvin Ridley. Like, he was stuck behind these really elite talents and rugs. And so, like, there's that, you have to take that context in. But at the end of the day, I mean, it's pretty logical to me. like it's almost like you can't really argue against. So I always go back to this Mitch Hebrug joke where he was, he says, wish I could go back and play Little League now. I'd kick some fucking ass.

And it's like, dude, if you're, if you're an old guy playing against a bunch of underdeveloped younger kids. So like in this case, 22 year old playing against like 18, 19 year olds, think about the advantages that you have. It's like, you know, it's obvious. So if you were able to break out as an 18 year old playing against 19, 20 year olds or older, I think it just tells you like you're a really good player. So it's not everything and it's not like a deal breaker.

But I do think it does, it is sort of another like thing that goes against the DeVante Smith. So it's like the size thing, the scheme, system thing and the fact that he was an older prospect. I will say, and Ben mentioned this earlier, I think Devante Smith could have come out last year. He was like their rest receiver last year. And I'm talking about 20 in the 2020 draft. In that season, DeVante Smith was like the go-to guy for Tua. He led the team in yards and touchdowns, I believe. And he was like the guy that Tua trusted the most.

For whatever reason, he decided to go back to the NFL. Maybe it was because the NFL was telling him you're too skinny or whatever. But I think he could have been a first-round pick. I think he could have been a first-round pick. And so like the breakout age, the late declare, because that's another thing that's related to breakout age is if a player is a early declare generally speaking that means that they have a better chance of being like an elite player in the NFL just because like if you're good enough to come out as a sophomore or junior,

you're going to be more talented than a guy who has to wait to be a super senior or a senior. You know what I mean? So the breakout age slash early declare knocks against Smith are a little bit tenuous in my mind. So by and I'm curious what you what your thoughts are here too, Haifist. My general take on this as, you know, my puny college brain is basically like the conversation around this is like, okay, he wanted to come back for his senior season to prove that he could be the guy. He did that with one of the greatest seasons in the history of college football, full stop, won a husband trophy, won the national championship. And now people are like, you went back to school? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I don't, I can't, my brain just can't, I can't, I can't grasp it. ended at all. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the idea is people think you went back to school because you had to. In Devante Smith's case, he really didn't have to in my mind. You could have come out. Probably would have been a late first or early second round type pick. But you still have him going 20th. That's barely like, it's like mid.

It's like he had the highsman. You literally love the Heisman as a receiver and he bumped up. You bumped him up six spots. I don't know if I really, I don't know if I truly believe he's going to fall that far. This was more like, here, I'm going to give you something a little. peek behind the curtain here, if it's mock drafts are useful in generating discussion. And I don't know. No, Danny completely changes his opinion every week.

I don't actually know or feel strongly that he's going to fall that far. There's whispers and sort of like winds telling us that he might fall further than people think he's going to be. A lot of people have him in the top 10, you know. And there's there's some rumors that he's going to fall a little bit. So forget the mock draft part. I want to hear from both of you. Jamar Chase for Devante.

I know you have Jamar Chase, D.K. Where would you take, if you're an NFLGM, where would you be comfortable taking Devante Smith, considering the other options available? I would be fine taking him in the top 10, top 12. I mean, there's so many variables to that question. Like, what's your team need? But I think he's that type of talent.

Ben, first of all, do you agree with DK. Jemar Chase over Jvante Smith? I don't, but I don't. I'm not, like, mad at it. like Jamar Chase was incredible. Like his 2019 season on like LSU had, you know, a season for the ages. He was the best receiver on that team. He was Burroughs go-to guy over Justin Jefferson.

So I don't, you know, I see it. It's not like he was a bad college player. This is not like a Josh Allen thing where I'm like, oh, God, this guy didn't do anything in college. I don't get this at all. Like Jamar Chase was amazing in college. I have obviously quite a soft spot for Devante. So I would put Devante one. but I get Jamar one.

Where I don't get it is if people have put Waddle above Devante when Devante was better than Waddle on his own team, injured less than Waddle, and put up better production than Waddle, like across the board. So, like, I can see the Jemar argument. I don't get the Waddle argument at all. So if Jammar goes as the first receiver off the board, like that totally makes sense to me.

If DeVante is not the number two receiver off the board, then NFL teams out thought themselves. Playing devil's advocate here, what do you take of the idea that Waddle outproduced Smith in the first four games of the season when Waddle was healthy? What do you think is, what would be the rebuttal to that? I mean, it was marginal, and here's the thing is like, after he got hurt, you know, you would think the cover just like, okay, they have one receiver they're going to throw to now.

They're going to Devante. They still couldn't stop him. Like, he got, you know, in theory, some of the other players should have been benefiting. John Mechie, their third receiver, should have been like, okay, now this is my time. Numbers, baby. But that's like not what happened. Like, Devante just basically doubled his production. Took over.

Yeah. It was just insane. Yeah. So, I mean, Waddle is good. I like Waddle better than I liked Ruggs coming out of college. Like, I was pretty down on Rugs. Rugs is really fast, but he wasn't that great at many other things. Waddle is a more complete player than I think Rugs was in college.

I just, you know, Devante is like a different level. Like he's, he's the college receiver goat. Waddle is also kind of small. I mean, he's like 510, 511, 180-something pounds. It's not like he's big. You know what I mean? I think he has different BMI. But I think the size thing is like kind of funny

considering a lot of people are like, oh yeah, Smith's going to fall, Waddle's going to be higher, teams are going to love his explosiveness. But he's also small. It's the eye test. It's because you look so skinny. He looks unlike, you know, it's like, remember when Zion was coming up in the, this is the complete opposite side of the spectrum, but when Zion was coming up in the NBA draft, we're like, oh, my God, this, what a weird body type. Somebody who looks like this shouldn't be able to do this.

Like, Devante is just like the complete opposite end of the spectrum where you're like, oh, he looks weird. He shouldn't be able to do these things that he's doing, but he does them like completely routinely. So, yeah, yeah. On that note, I just want to say, I know this is a, you know, very serious football discussion, but I know I know that. that this has been years, so we should be over it, but I'm not. I think it's hilarious that the speed guy at Alabama is named Waddle. It's unbelievable. I'm not over it. And even though I, like, do this for a living and I should be over it,

every time I see his name written, I do a little giggle. Yes. And it's kind of like if he was named Zion, I feel like he would be a top to eight pick and everyone would take him super seriously. But I think something in your mind, it's like preventing you from like really buying into Jalen Waddle NFL player. Do you think, like, if DeAndre Swift, who came, name out last year was like a power back no he doesn't get picked in the second if he was a power if he was a

power back instead of like somebody who was actually fast would he have like dropped four rounds because you're like oh his name doesn't match up exactly it's like i think it's a very real thing yeah what if zion was named jalen waddle like if it's like zion waddle like a zion's the cool name so it's not the same thing but either way i love the name discussion by the way it's really fun rico doddle last year is one of my favorites like this guy's the name is doddle like no one's going to pick this guy. Wait, what's Macchones' full name? Macorkel.

Probably a good thing that he's not going by McCorkel. I mean, I think that would probably drop his draft stock a little bit. McCorkel Jones. What's his first name? It's like something really like Mike. I think his name is Mike. Mike Jones?

I'm going to look this up. I can't even remember, but it's like very generic. Mac is good. McCorkel, bad. We need the Mike Jones sound drop, but for McCorkel Jones. Yeah, his name is Michael McCorkel Jones. So he goes by Mac.

He could have gone by Mike Jones. Very generic. In college, did you guys know that Steve Sarkesian when he was the BAMOC called him Mackinrow because he would just throw massive temper tantrums in practice? Really? Like after John McEnroe? Yeah, that's like a real thing. Like he apparently matured a lot his like final season when, you know, they won the national

championship. And now he's in the discussion. but like he is, you know, he was the type of player who in practices would, you know, not make his displeasure quiet. I guess it would be the diplomatic way of saying it, yes. But yeah, he went by McEnroe. That's interesting because he doesn't seem like when you watch him play, he's always like very sort of calm and collected and composed. That's an interesting story. I didn't hear that one.

All right. So, to put a button all this, D.K. The three concerns people have with Devante, size, age, system. I want you to rank, what are the three things, how much they actually concern you? I would say the size is the most concerning. After everything we just said, it is a concern, a light concern.

I'm not ruling out the idea that it could be an issue. The age and the system don't bother me as much because of like the fact that, you know, you have to take into the context that everybody was playing with, the fact he probably could have come out last year and been a highish pick. Yeah, the age and the system thing don't bother me. it's the size thing that is

slightly concerning, I would say, but ultimately not enough for me to worry too much about it. Ben, what about you? I would, I think I'd do the same order. I mean, the size definitely is like the, again, the age thing, I guess. I mean, was you do age second or third, I forget. System was second. The other two don't matter.

They don't matter. Yeah, the system, again, I don't, he was so good at Alabama. He was good when they had talent. He was good when that talent got hurt, and he was clearly the guy. And as a like the age thing, as a freshman, Nick Saban doesn't play freshman.

So it's really hard to break out when your coach is like, you're not going to play until you're a sophomore. So I have no concerns with that. The size, I'm not really concerned with either, but it's like the only one of these that I think is even kind of reasonably a reason to, you know, question whether he's an elite prospect or not. Beautiful. All right.

Thank you, guys. I think that's all we got. Thank you, D.K. Thank you, Ben. Ben, I think you should go back to Space Camp. you could kick some fucking ass. Sign me up. All right, this was the Big Board of the Ringer NFL show.

Thank you for listening. We'll be back on Friday. Kevin and Nora will be here on Tuesday.