The Ringer NFL Show - The Top Quotes From Combine Week

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

Nora and Steven go through the best quotes from the 2023 NFL combine week and what they mean thus far. Host: Nora Princiotti and Steven Ruiz Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Nora Pinceotti. I am here on a Wednesday afternoon with Stephen Ruiz. Stephen, it is Scouting Combine week. How is your Combine League going so far? It's going amazing. It's going amazing. I had some time off last week. I can't get into the details of that, but scouting combine is amazing. This is the time when you're an NFL writer where you kind of get into the draft and learn these players.

Because I don't have time during the college season to watch college football. And yeah, so I'm excited to get into these prospects. Well, first of all, Stephen, I'm very glad that you had some mysterious time off. I hope it was restful. I hope it was restorative. It's a newsy week, right? Like everybody's walking around Indianapolis talking to each other and starting rumors and saying things and saying things that we can dissect and try to figure out what they actually mean. So we're going to do a little bit of a news roundup today. We're going to each give the other three quotes from this week that have stood out to us and sort of talk about what?

it all means, if we believe it, if we think it's important, why it's important, and what's going on around the league right now. So, Stephen, why don't you hit me with the first one? So I didn't even know which quote to pick from the Seahawks Brass, P. Carroll and John Schneider, because they seem to be having the time of their life in Indianapolis. I've never seen a team go on a victory lap after losing in the wildcard round, but the Seahawks brass have found a way to do it. And I don't, the timing of the Russell Wilson report about apparently he wanted to get Pete Carroll fired on his way out of Seattle and that obviously the trade happened. It seems like they're having fun with the fact that things have gone well for them and not so well for Denver,

but there has been a lot of talk about Gino Smith and his contract negotiation. Obviously, that's at the top of priorities for Seattle this this offseason. And you can extend that beyond Gino Smith, the scope of Gino Smith, the fact that they need a long-term option at quarterback. And maybe it is Gino Smith, maybe it isn't, but Pete Carroll and John Snyder have talked about that. They've talked about the luxury of picking so high with the pick they got in the Russell Wilson trade. Pete Carroll talked about getting to draft a quarterback. It's not something that comes along as often. He said we're working back. And then this is about Gino Smith. He said, we're working back and forth and it's all ongoing, how it's going.

I think it's going in the right direction. We've got to get it done. So they've been talking about how they're thinking about drafting the quarterback. They're connected to the quarterbacks. I think that's how Carol put it. But they're also talking about this extension, like it's a done deal. So I think that puts them in a very interesting spot. And it creates a discussion about what they do with that pick, what they do with that pick that

that they got from Denver. Do they use it on a quarterback or do they use it to kind of supplement around Jito Smith? Because one thing we did see down the stretch was there was there was some, holds in that offense. We talked about the supporting cast all year long. They had a good offensive line. The rookie the rookie tackles played well. The receivers are obviously good with D.K. Metcalfe and Tyler Lockett.

But as they went down the stretch, the tackle started playing a little bit worse. The receivers weren't getting as open. Tyler Lockett got hurt, which is a thing that happens to him a lot. We saw some of D.K. Metcalf's I don't know. weaknesses. He's not, he looks like a contested catch

receiver, but he doesn't always show up in those situations. So I think this is going to be a very interesting offense, our offseason for Seattle. And I don't know which direction they're going to go with it. I don't know if they're going to take the quarterback with that pick. Are they going to draft a receiver, draft an edge rusher? Because obviously that's a deep position in this draft. But it sounds like from reading the tea leaves that Seattle is intent on resigning Gino

Smith. And I think that is the top of their priority list. And it's not necessarily finding that quarterback that they can groom for the next 10 years. Yeah. I genuinely think that they could do both. Like I thought that all of those comments about, you know, I think Schneider said, somebody asked,

would you actually, if you're trying to get this done with Gino and you feel so good about that, would you seriously consider being involved at quarterback at pick number five, which they're, they have two first rounders. They have number five and number 20. 20 is their own. Five is obviously through the Wilson trade.

And he just, and somebody said, why? if you would double dip in that way, why would you do that? And he just goes, because they don't grow on trees. And I think that's exactly the right, as long as you can do it without creating a Carson Wenz, Jalen Hertz situation, although I guess in the long run that worked out okay. But, and I don't think that, you know, in that scenario, Gino Smith would have to be Carson Wens

and I don't think that that's happening either. As long as that type of dynamic doesn't become a detriment, that's the right way to approach this. And it seems like, I think Gino's made comments about feeling like, you know, Seattle's where he's where he wants to be. And obviously that they're working through the deal process. But it seems like, unless I'm being really naive, that whole thing seems like it's in a pretty good situation. Like Schneider was talking about basically saying like, look, we got to work through quarterback. And we got to work through this thing with Gino.

First, we do kind of have to wait to see what else we're going to do until we've figured that out. it very clearly seems like their highest priority. Obviously, they can go out into the free agent market and then they can figure out what they're doing in the draft. In terms of their own free agents, it's not that long of a list other than Gino. It's like Puna Ford. So again, it's dicey, right? Because if you draft a quarterback at number five overall, history says there's an expectation that that guy plays really soon. Still, I just think that they could manage that situation.

Like it's the Seahawks, you talked about how Pete Carroll and John Schneider walked into this week, like, floating on a cloud. And I think that's 100% true. They just seem so jazzed, maybe a little self-satisfied with how this is all turned out. But Schneider was talking about sort of how this rebuilt got on track faster than I think a lot of people would have expected. I think somebody asked him, you know, your projected win total for this past season as of last August was like five. What does that make you think now that they won nine games

or whatever it was? And he was talking about, you know, he was sort of, he was crowing a little bit about that, but he was also talking about his own mistakes in the past and when they've missed on drafts and the differences between those years and being able to get the class that, you know, obviously the Gino decision is the biggest reason why they were able to have so much success this year. But obviously, the fact that they could start two young tackles and that they found Kenneth Walker, who I guess we're supposed to call Ken.

That was nothing Schneider said that he really doesn't like Kenneth. All of that stuff, he was framing it as in some ways a result. of not making the same mistakes that they've made in the past, which he defined as drafting for need, certainly, and then also not paying enough attention to sort of personality and competitiveness, which I thought was kind of interesting. I think probably the drafting for need instead of just like talent and getting the best players that are out.

out there. That's the one that sticks out the most. But it did seem like, you know, he wasn't just walking up there crowing about, oh, Russ is bad now and this worked out and we're so much better than anybody expected. Like there was some real reflection on why this team is kind of good now. And it'll be interesting to see how they deal with that pick because they're clearly looking at the quarterbacks. But then if they don't, don't go that route. And, you know, obviously you could trade the pick or whatever. But if they just end up drafting someone who's not a quarterback there, I don't,

I don't know if there's an easy way to figure out, like, what position they would try to try to attack. I think it sounded like from talking to Schneider, defense was more, felt like more of a priority to him than offense right now. But I don't know that that's all that instructive. Because the number one thing that he was saying about when they've screwed up in the past was like, saying, okay, we need to add an impact player here or there, or we need, you know, we need a linebacker,

we need a safe, like, I don't think they're going to do that. So it'll be, the first decision point is, is that pick a pick that they're going to try to use on a quarterback. And obviously, I think that's the one position that's sort of an outlier to that conversation. That's always a need. Even, even after that, if it's not quarterback, they could, like, they could, like, they could, go anywhere. They're going to take someone who they think is just really an impact player and a really good talent. And the funny thing is, if that's quarterback, this team just thrives on chaos. You know?

Yeah. Yeah. I do think like having Gino Smith as the guy that's Pennsylvania as the number one helps because he is a guy that that's all he's known since he's entered the league as competition. I don't think it would be a big obstacle for him, at least mentally. So I don't think you would have to worry about the Carson Wentz situation. I don't know how much of that was like mentality with Carson Wentz and like being threatened by Hertz's presence. But I don't think that's like a concern with this situation. And like obviously I don't I don't actually think the Seahawks guys were like strutten because they went.

What did they go? 10 and 7, 11.6. I think it's because they kind of feel like there's been a burden lifted off of them. The last three off seasons have been about Russell Wilson. Like even before the trade talk came up, there was the comments that he made following the Buck's Chief Super Bowl where he was watching and he was like,

I want a team like this. I want a team like Tom Brady and Patrick Mones have. And that I really thought instructed the way that the Seahawks had to attack the offseason. Like you have to keep this guy happy. You have to kind of throw him some bones. You have to give him what he wants to keep him happy. And now they're going into this offseason.

They don't even have a quarterback on the roster for next year that they're going to think about. starting. So I think it's like just a burden lifted off their shoulders where they don't have to build a roster based on the whims of their franchise quarterback. Now they can build it in their own vision. And I think that's kind of maybe why you're seeing them be a little looser this season. I mean, those guys have always been kind of loose, right? Like Pete Carroll is always sort of funny and he's got more energy than some of the coaches who are 20 years younger than him and John Schneider like just has, to me he has like crossfit energy.

He just seems like a guy who's always talking about like his crossfit gym. They're having a good time though. Somebody asked, I was telling you this before we started recording, but for our listeners, somebody asked him about the story in the athletic last week that Russ had tried to get Schneider and Carol fired. And somebody mentioned it at Schneider's media availability. And he deadpaned. genuinely so effectively

for a solid 15 seconds just going I actually don't know what you're what was the story clearly I missed something you're going to have to tell me

because I wasn't totally aware of that and he made himself sound so like awkward and still did and like he'd been caught off guard and then all of a sudden

he just paused and goes nah I got you guys I'm just kidding I was like man he is loose he should do like a stand-up career. Didn't Dean Blandino?

Was that before or after the referee thing? I think Dean Blanino was a stand-up comedian and then he got into a refereeing. I think John Schneider should leave the front office business become a comedian. He and Brady. They could do it together. I forgot about Tom Brady.

What is Tom Brady's first set going to be about? Nightshades. Like part of the key to comedy, and I'm not a comedian, so I'm just talking out of my ass right now is I feel like being relatable and having relatable premises. Don't you guys hate when you're eating your avocado ice cream

and it melts? Like, what is he going to do? What's the deal with chia seeds? Aren't you mad when your supermodal wife gets mad at you because you're playing football for 20 years? Well, maybe we'll find out. All right. I have a quote for you, Stephen.

Okay. It is. All the answers are, right inside me. Do you know who's at that? I have a guess. I'm going to guess it's the guy that went on a darkness retreat in the last week. Yep.

Everybody's favorite podcast enthusiast, Aaron Rogers. He said this on the Aubrey Marcus podcast. I'm going to be honest. I don't know what that is, but I'm happy for him. That was about making a decision. Happy for who? I don't know. I want to be very clear.

I don't know what that is. really want to know what that is. I don't care. Just going to, just going to, I'm so happy with the exact amount of information I have about this situation, which is that Aaron Rogers went on this podcast after going on his darkness retreat. And he said that he has not made a decision yet. To him, he's framing that decision on as between retiring and keeping playing, not between if he keeps playing which team he would keep playing for. I still find it hard to believe that Aaron Rogers is going to walk away from $60 million.

So I have a feeling it will end up being a decision on which team to play for. But to Rogers right now, the choice is between retiring and continuing to play. And he has the answers there inside of him. He has, quote, two really beautiful options that both feel really nourishing and special. but he's not ready to say if he's what he's going to do. Meanwhile, Brian Goodman seems increasingly like, come on, man, I need an answer. Because yesterday he said, we really need to have those conversations. It would be nice to have some answers before free agency begins.

But I do think that this situation, it's interesting because, one, the Rogers decision is kind of holding up Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, like, what the Jets? are going to do. It's possible that there are even some implications for, like, Lamar, Daniel Jones, the guys who are maybe a little bit more likely to be settled where they are, although obviously the Lamar situation is a lot more complicated than the Daniel Jones thing. But so many teams are sort of waiting on this. Oh, producer staff says, quick Google search. Aubrey has a documentary called Awake in the Darkness and sells memory. and focused pills. Good for him. But it's interesting to me to talk about this,

the Rogers Choice now relative to where we were a year ago when we were doing this, because then, last year, the Packers were still kind of in the exact same holding pattern, but they were so much more aggressive about finding a way to get Rogers back. It was all about retention. They did the extension. It was very much like, what can we do to make you happy? If you read the tea leaves and even kind of just read the quotes for what they are, some of that is just this is Roger's choice, but they seem a lot less eager to find a way to make it work. They seem ready to move on to Jordan Love. I found it interesting that that was the vibe,

even while Goodenst was talking about. plans to make sure they bring guys like David Bactiari and Mason Crosby back, who are like some of the veteran guys where if they were going into a kind of rebuild mode, those decisions might be different because you can save salary cap space. And obviously, no matter what Rogers does, he's going to count quite a bit on their cap one way or another. But it seems like they are. still seeing this as a window where they want to stay as competitive as possible. But that is not a plan that is hinging on having Aaron Rogers anymore. And it kind of seems like they might be happier if he just went somewhere else. And obviously they can't come out and say it because if he wants to come back, he can. And they would be completely financially beholden to allowing him to do that. But it's just a fascinating comparison with where we were a year ago,

where it was just like, what can we do to make Aaron happy? Yeah, I feel like they kind of had that same relief that Seattle has now, where it's like, oh, we don't have to make this guy happy anymore. We could, like, actually build the team we want to build. We don't have to trade for Randall Cobb this offseason. We don't have to think about, we don't have to know about Jake Kumero's availability. But I absolutely think Aaron Rogers is coming back. He's full of shit when he says that.

If it's between retirement and coming back, beyond the $60 million that he would leave on the table, the fact that he's been so public and present and available, he's on the Marcus whatever podcast. I think he loves this attention that he's getting. And I don't think we would have heard about the darkness retreat unless he was coming back. Because I think he,

there's an episode in It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Charlie writes like a musical. And the rest of the gang is out. The rest of the gang is like, who are we doing this at? Like, who is the, like, why are you writing a musical? Who are we doing it at? That's Aaron Rogers. Like, who did he do the, the darkness retreat at?

He was doing it at somebody. He's coming back. He wants us to think he's like some hippie off in the woods, not thinking about football. And he's going to come back and he's going to throw for 4,000 yards and 30 touchdowns. Like, I really think that's what he's seen in his mind right now. Because even in the interviews before the darkness retreat, he's talked about how people have thought he was washed before. They thought he was washed three years ago and then he wins two MVPs in a row. And then he talked about whether he could still play at that level and he thinks he can.

So I really don't think it's a question of like whether he's going to play or not. And it does seem like the Packers are ready to move on. It's not even just the comments at the combine. Like everything you've heard about how they feel about Jordan Love and whether he's ready to play seems to be positive. Now that could just be posturing on the team's part. That could just be, you know, throwing stuff out there to get some trade interests going. but it does seem like they're ready to move on. And like, why not?

You're not winning the Super Bowl with Aaron Rogers right now. Like with this roster and this version of Rogers, who I think, I don't think he's as bad as maybe people thought he was last year. I think a lot of people jumped the gun and saying that he's a little washed up. I still think he'd play at a high level, but he's not Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamont. He's not going to really raise your ceiling as much as he would have two years ago. Did you see the photos of the darkness retreat?

Like what the room looked like? So ESPN got a photo of the place. Here's my issue. Which is, of course, I don't really have an issue with this. You can do it every one. The darkness, it seems like a mid-darkness retreat. It wasn't, like the room was, it's a small room with just a sort of normal looking twin bed. which to me, if you're Aaron Rogers,

and as you said, you're doing this for someone, for some someone, some group of someone's, I need this to be one of two things. I need this to either be like you're sleeping on the dirt and there's no amenities and it's hardcore and you can get all of the points in the street cred for just like going into a dark cave and having an experience.

Or I need you to just own that you are Aaron Rogers, the multi, multi-millionaire and you're going to go have a luxury travel experience. I don't want you sleeping on like a weird twin bed because it's not like, I don't, I'm not impressed by that. It's still a bed. There's a mattress you're going to get a totally normal night of sleep.

It looks like he's just had like a Ramada in that didn't pay its electricity. Yeah, exactly. Like, it just looks like a crappy, the lights went out and fine. It's not, this is not difficult. This is not a particularly challenging

experience to spend a night there. I mean, I would not want to be in the darkness. But he also could come out of the darkness if you wanted to. I would have been perfectly fine. If it had been a, if he'd been, you know,

if this was a fluffy four-poster bed, nice pillows, clean, crisp linen situation. Respect, you know. Go spend your money, Aaron Rogers. Go have a nice time. But like, come on, man. Don't be going to this second rate darkness retreat. I'm upset.

You should be. No. I want more for Aaron Rogers. I want better darkness retreats. And another team I want more of. That's what we call transition. I want more for the Minnesota Vikings. Uh, their G.

Yeah. I don't know if their fans want more for themselves, but I want more for them. Obviously, Kirk Cousins is always a topic of conversation every offseason. He signed a one year extension last off season in which the two final years, so 24 and 25, automatically void. We've seen this structure with other quarterbacks. It's just for a way, if the Vikings let them walk, or they decide it's over, they'll get comp picks for it. But there has been talk about another extension. This is the final year of his deal.

And Quese Adofo Menza was talking about how the sides are kind of far apart where the Vikings obviously want flexibility and Kirk Cousins want some security. He says, obviously from their side, they want it as certain as possible. From our side, we want flexibility. You're always trying to be solutions oriented and find a way that works for both people. He has much importance to this organization, maybe more than I do. So we all have to be on the same page and make sure that relationship works. Now, here's my question. I'm looking at the Vikings' salary cap situation.

They are deep in the red. They're going to have to do a lot of work to get some cap space this off season. They're coming off a season where the topic of discussion revolving around them, the whole season was, are they frauds? Are they legit? It ended in a way that suggests that they were not legit, that they were probably further. Did not meet the fraudulent's allegation. They could not. They're very strong.

In fact, I think they were convicted as frauds. But it seems like this team, this is another example of this team just trying to hold on to a window that just really isn't there. And I'm wondering if this is the offseason where the front office draws a line. And they're like, yes, I know, they probably do need Kirk at this point, like for next season more than Kirk needs them. But at a certain point, when you keep getting on this riding, keep kicking the can down the road with these weird contract structures where you're avoiding deals, you're kicking guaranteed money down the road. spreading it out. It just keeps you beholden to this quarterback who has proven time and time again that he's probably not good enough to get you where you need to go, especially this version of the Vikings roster, which has so many holes, receiver behind Jefferson. Offensive line has

been an issue basically every year for the past decade. Edge rusher, interior, secondary, linebacker, they didn't have a very good defense last year. So there are so many holes on this roster, I don't even know why they're entertaining these talks with Kirk Cousins. In fact, I think Kirk Cousins should be a name that shopped around. We should be talking about him in the same way that we're talking about Aaron Rogers. But for some reason, it seems like the Vikings are intent on having him on the roster next year and possibly having him on the roster for years after that. And I'm just left scratching my head.

I don't get it. I just don't get it. It does feel like a Lucy with the football thing because when they did the last extension, with him, that was covered. And I remember us talking about it. That was covered as, okay, they're extending Kirk one more time, but this is going to create this decision point where if it's time to get out of the Kirk Cousin's business and it feels like you're always going to be okay, but the ceiling is very apparent, then you can do that. And here's this new regime that's supposed to be more forward thinking and have clearer heads about making this choice. And

and I'm not saying that it felt like a done deal that they were going to use this moment to move on. But it really felt like it was set up for if he doesn't prove something, they're doing this so that they have that option. And now it feels like they're not, it does feel like they're not even considering it. And I thought, look, Kirk had an okay year. Like, there are worse situations. Loath as I am to say this. There are worse situations than having Kirk Cousins be.

quarterback. But I agree with you. I don't know why they're not. I mean, and I don't know that they haven't necessarily. And I think some people have talked about the fact that this might make some sense. But call, if there's not a call placed to San Francisco, I mean, Kyle Shanahan, we know Kyle Shanahan has loved Kirk Cousins in the past. And obviously, they have changed when when they moved up for Trey Lance, that felt like a change in the philosophy at quarterback at that team. But also, a lot has happened since then. And they're in a weird situation. And they're in a window where it feels like a decent quarterback who's just going to paint by Kyle Shanhan's numbers could get them really, really, really far. And from a health

standpoint, they don't know if they have someone who's going to be ready. Apparently, you know, Lance is progressing very well in his recovery. John Lynch said he's not 100%, but he's throwing and he's he's at the facility and doing all sorts of stuff. Brock Purdy is a way more complicated situation. It's a baseball injury. It's, there's just not a lot of precedent of how this goes. And it just seems like the type of thing where you could peak, peak their interest a little bit. and they're resource strung in terms of what they could do to get something like that done.

But it just seems like it would be worth a call, particularly when you start thinking about, you know, okay, they're going to have a decision to make on Adam Thielen. They're going to have a decision to make on Delvin Cook. Obviously, Cousins, then, you know, DeNeil Hunter, is at Arias Smith, Eric Kendrick, Jordan Hicks, Harrison, Smith, like, all of those guys either because of the potential cap savings or because they're just hitting free agency. Like, they're going to have to figure something out with a lot of players who have been part of this core of this roster.

And even with that core intact, I don't think they've gotten to where they want to go as a team. And I totally agree with you. If we hadn't been going through this for years and years and years with her cousins, it would just seem like, all right, maybe a reset is what's needed here. and it doesn't seem like, I mean, maybe, you know, prove us wrong or something, but like it just doesn't seem like that's even being considered. No, and like when Quesey was brought in, I thought it was assumed that maybe they'd go for it last year,

but then after that it would be a rebuild. But like, like you said, like there's no, no move has been made over the last like here that even suggests that that's on their mind, which is kind of weird, considering the background of the GM and he has the analytics background and he's talked about it, roster building in those terms, it just seems like, I don't know, like after one year, I guess he's been on the job for one year. If I was a Vikings fan,

I would kind of feel uneasy about the direction of the team right now. Because I, it seemed, if you would have told me that Rick Spielman is still running the team, I would believe you based on the moves over the last year. So, yeah, I don't know. It's just kind of weird to hear them talk about Kirk cousins in the same terms that we've heard this team and this position,

whether it was Spielman or Cuezzi, talk about Kirk Cousins. It's been the same thing every time. Like, we have to, you know, we don't want to commit to him too long term, but we have to give him what he wants. And they end up with Kirk Cousins back on the roster every year. It's, it's amazing.

But it sounds like it's going to happen again. I'm curious to see what they end up doing with Adam Ceyland's contract because his cap number is close to 20 million. They restructured last year. They could

extend him again. Like, they could push more of it off because he's got, I think the salary figure is like $13 million or something is what they owe him in cash. So they could do another restructure thing again, maybe, or they could just pay him that. Or they could have some real savings by releasing him. I think they'd save $6.5 million if they released him. Oh, base salary is $12 million, basically. So they could push a lot of that off into the future or they could say goodbye. Look, he's still a good player.

He's still a useful player. But obviously Jefferson is the number one there. He's not getting any younger. He's turning 33. He doesn't separate. They traded for Hawkinson. They traded for Hawkinson. And the thing is, if they're asking for, you know, restructures, often players are perfectly happy to do because it usually just means you get more money sooner.

If I'm Adam feeling in this pretty weak wide receiver market, I would kind of rather be released. Unless I'm like really, really, really like, I want to stay in Minnesota. I just don't want to move. Because we're talking about, okay, so we hear from Duke Tobin, T. Higgins, they're not going to trade him. Go find your own receiver, he said. There's not a great free agent prop.

You know, guys like DeAndre Hopkins are potentially trade targets. Obviously, look, I think Duke Tobin sounded pretty adamant about T. You never know. There's always an offer that can come in and change somebody's mind. I guess, look, feeling's pretty expensive. But I guess they could try to find a trade partner just based on how few of these guys are available. And they could work something out that way. But I just, I think it's going to be a telling move just because he's the other one along, along with Kirk, where if it's just like, nope, let's just keep pushing it off into the future and keep running it back.

these are our guys and we're going to keep trying to make this work. I don't know, man. How much has it been working? That's the thing. And I think the Thielen case is interesting because that would be more cut and drive. This was a team that was trying to build long term. But when you think you can win, you want to have guys like Adam Thieland in your locker. I feel like that's where his biggest contribution is at this point.

Like he has been a decent player the last two years. but I think he's well past the player he was when he earned this contract. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm with you. I don't think Theelan should be on the roster when the season opens up, but I would not be surprised just based on how they're talking about Kirk Cresden's right now. Fascinating. All right.

Here's another one. The quote is, he's coming in as the QB1. He'll get a great opportunity to be our starter. And that was Ron Rivera on Sam Howell. my takeaway from this is not really about Sam Haltz. Fine. They clearly like what they've seen from him and want to give him an opportunity to earn more reps.

Taylor Hineke's a free agent. Rivera also said that the commanders are going to be interested in the veteran quarterback market. They'll poke around there. I've not heard them linked to the big names. I don't think that you're, you know, heavily pursuing an Aaron Rogers trade while simultaneously being like,

well, we got to get Sam Howell some reps. So they're not in that kind of, that kind of market. But there's a lot of guys who are out there and it sounds like they will, they'll poke around there. Here's why I think this is interesting. You could make the same point to them using the franchise tag on Jerome Payne, which they did this week. Maybe they'll get a long-term deal done there.

Maybe they won't. But it's just sort of all part of the same trend. of a lot of shorter term, sort of more modest, don't take huge swings, moots. The other thing that happened related to the commanders this week was that ESPN and Don Vanatta, who's a fantastic reporter, revealed that the biggest issue at the center of the Department of Justice investigation into the commanders and into Dan Snyder's conduct is this loan, a $55 million loan that he took out for the organization in 2018, that looks like it was not properly obtained. The other word for that being bank fraud, our words for that.

Because you have to, in order to get a loan, you have to show the bank that you have approval from the board of directors to take on the debt. The NFL also has to approve it. but apparently the NFL did approve it and Goodell signed off. But Dan Snyder didn't tell the rest of the board of directors that he was trying to get this loan. And he wouldn't give it was actually, did you read that? Did you, I had to like, I had to read this piece like four times to sort of understand how bank fraud works. But the thing that's funny about it is that it's, it's very similar to, did you follow the Anna Delvey, like, fake German hei story?

Okay. So there was this girl who was running around New York City pretending to be a German heiress. And she just basically, the short version is she put on, she put on airs and acted like she was incredibly wealthy and had all this money. But it was tied up in various places. And people basically, people gave her a lot of stuff because she seemed rich. So they just went, oh, well, she'll be good for it. And it escalated. It started. as her skipping out on hotel bills and restaurant bills and stuff like that. But it escalated into her getting this massive, massive, like, multi, multi-million dollar loan to start a foundation. It was basically a social club, but she called her a foundation. And they would just ask her and ask her and ask her to give documentation of her own resources.

and she would just bluff and basically be like, my family is so internationally wealthy that all of our money is tied up in all of these places and I can't pause, how ridiculous that you would ask. And it was, the story was crazy because it was just like, she got so far by just saying that. And the institutions, the massive financial institutions that were sort of duped in this way is very striking.

And it's a little bit... We don't know everything that happened in the case of the commanders, but it is a little bit similar in that if you read Don's reporting, they were asking him over and over and over. Can you give us this document that proves that you've asked your board of directors if you can do... if you can get this loan and that they've said, yes, we just need this. We just need proof. We just need this.

And Snyder just said, no, no, no, no, no, we're working for it. We're doing it. We're doing it, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then at some point, they just gave him the loan. And they never got the proof, but they just, they gave him the loan. And so what, whether he just ran out the clock and they were, they were so tired of dealing with him that they just sort of did it, or if there was something else that happened there, that, who knows? And I think that is, is clearly what the federal prosecutors are looking at. And that has implications for Snyder. It has implications for the commanders.

It has implications maybe for the League and for Goodell. Probably has implications for Bank of America. Also for the minority partners that Snyder bought out in part because they found out about this and were mad about it and they were the people that he should have asked and didn't. And so it's all part of all of the bad stuff that Dan Snyder gets up to. He's obviously a horrible business partner. It's confusing to me why the league, if you can see in this story that the league and Goodell sort of helped him do this or at least like didn't, didn't.

I don't know that they didn't side with the minority owners that took him to arbitration and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it seems like they did a lot to sort of just smooth that over. I don't know why because Dan Snyder seems like a horrible guy to be in business with. Clearly a lot of other people think so because it's impacting the potential attempts to find a buyer for the commanders. But the reason that I'm tying this to Sam Howell and the reason that I think this is important is the reason why, he was going after this new loan. It's the reason why, as was also reported, he's paying himself $10 million a year

for his role with the team, whatever it is, why he's charging them $4.5 million to put the team's logo on his jet. He's cash poor. And it's influencing how he runs the team. And if we can see it in the fact that they're never major players for, you know, the most expensive guys that you can add. They're never players on the stage of, I mean, even you think about when they did the Wendstiel,

they did it so quickly. And it was like, why are you, there's other guys out there. I mean, they could have gone, I'm not saying that going after Jimmy Garoppolo would have been like, ah, everything is saved and this is the massive splash that they haven't made. But there were other guys out there and they did that so quickly. And part of it is because they just, they don't, they don't spend. And if people don't think that there is a connection between the fact that he was really, really, really, really desperate to get this loan and the fact that they do not spend as a team, I disagree is, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, and like along those same lines, the other owner that people might bring up if you're talking about how cash rich a team is, is the ratings. and it sounds like Josh McDaniels is not interested in the veteran QB market or like he's not interested in maybe pursuing Aaron Rogers. He was asked about it and he basically said something along the lines of, we want a guy that's going to be here for a long time. And like that's not Aaron Rogers. I don't even think it's like Jimmy G or anybody like that.

I think they're going to draft a player because they don't necessarily want to invest all that money in what it takes to sign a quarterback. If you trade for Aaron Rogers, for instance, you're not just trading for a great quarterback, you're committing financially to him and you're going to have to pay him a lot of money. And they just paid Devante Adams a lot of money. We've seen them make moves in the past, cost cutting moves like trading Khalil Mack. So I do think there's something there with Washington. I do think it's connected.

And I think that's why they're kind of in there, Chris Ballard, Indianapolis Colta era, where they're just, you know, just whoever would come along and play for us. Someone that we could trick our fans into thinking might be good. Like Carson Wentz, you can kind of trick your fans into thinking he might be good. and that's what I think they end up with. I would not be surprised if Sam Howell ends up being the starter, but I wouldn't be surprised if, like, the quarterback they end up with signing to give him competition is like Andy Dalton.

Right. And not one of the other top guys, like, not even, maybe Baker Mayfield. Right. Then you're, then you're asking yourself, how many Baker Mayfield do you need in your locker room? Because then you have Sam Hal, you have Baker Mayfield. Like, that's just too many. But I agree with you. Like, I think this, this.

I do think they're going cheap on the quarterback position. They just don't want to say it. They want to make you believe that Sam Hal has a chance to be their long-term start, which I don't think is the case. Sure. Yeah. NFL teams make so much money and they're worth so much. I mean, it sounds like the commanders, the asking price is $7 billion.

And it seems like they're having some trouble getting there. But that doesn't mean that this team won't, if it does sell, won't sell for just like an absurd amount of money. So sometimes like, you know, you look it up or you see it reported in places like Forbes or whatever. Like all of these guys are worth billions and billions and billions of dollars because they own these teams. And it gets easy to forget, I think, that there genuinely are a few teams where the most. multi-billionaire owners cannot put hundreds of millions of dollars

in escrow for massive contracts with ease. And it affects things. And it's sort of like, it's not baseball, right? It's not the Yankees and the A's. But there's a scaled down version of that

that exists in the NFL and it's very well masked, but it does exist. Yeah. And like I think there's reason that the bucks are talking about Kyle Tras being their quarterback next year. I think there's like, I don't know if it's as dire as a situation in Washington or even Las Vegas, but like, caps-based situation-wise, they are very poor. And I think that is going to affect a lot of these

teams that are pursuing a quarterback this year. And I do think it might affect the market at the top. Like, if there are only so many teams going after Aaron Rogers, what did the Packers get for Aaron Rogers? What if it's just the Jets bidding against themselves? And that could very well be the case because with a lot of these teams that we think are going to be in this game of musical chairs with the quarterbacks. Like Washington could be a team that just starts those with a young guy. Las Vegas is talking like a team that could just go with a young guy. Tampa Bay could just be a guy. They could just go with a young guy.

It sounds like New Orleans is dead set on bringing in Derek Carr. So I do think that has some interesting implications on the top of the market, even if Washington won't, you know, involve themselves in it. totally all right what is your third my last quote i don't know how interesting it is but i feel like it sparked some discussions and it came from titans gm rancarton he just replaced uh first first year uh gm he said it's cute and sexy to play golden state warriors football which kind of doesn't make sense because the golden state warriors play basketball but in september and october when the weather is good

but the teams that play in January play tough defense and run the football. And obviously that was that was caught up by the nerds. They got all they got all hot bothered about it. They got all bad about it because we've learned that that's not how you build a football team.

You don't build a football team through the run game and defense. But I do want to push back against the notion that this paints Carthin as like some outdated GM who's behind the times. I do think there's some truth to that comment. Now, I disagree with the Golden State Warriors part, obviously.

Like, the Golden State Warriors have had a lot of success in the postseason. That's the thing that I don't get about it, is that the Warriors were really good. Like, don't you want to be the equivalent of the Golden State Warriors? Isn't that a good thing? Shouldn't we be identifying that as aspirational? Yeah, and they also won a bunch of championships. So beyond them just being good, like, they won in, it's not obviously January, but the equivalent of January. But I do think there's some truth to what he's saying.

And I do think the quote was kind of taken out of context. He was basically saying you have to be able to do both. And I think the Chiefs are an example of that this last year. And then the perfect foil for the Chiefs are the Bills. The Bills are a team that we've talked about the last two years that didn't have that plan B. They couldn't run the football. Their defense kind of fell apart at the end of the year due to injuries for the most part, but they couldn't play defense.

The Chief's defense played its best football, I think, at the end of the year. they were able to run the football a lot. Isaiah Pacheco's presence in the backfield really changed things because they had a tough downhill runner who could get those extra one or two yards. He could turn a three-yard gain into a five-yard gain, which is a big difference. And maybe, I don't know if that is most valuable in January, but I do think having the ability to, you know,

to push different buttons, play different ways, and not just rely on the passing game, which a lot of teams have fallen in love with over the last couple of years. I do think last season kind of proved or was kind of proof of concept of what Cartham is saying. Now, he also, he was asked like, are you guys going to build the team or continue to build the team around Derek Henry? And he was like, no, we're not going to do that. So I think by like kind of clipping down what he said to those two sentences kind of paints him as a guy that is outdated and might be behind the times. I do think there's some truth to what he's saying.

And I think you want your GM to think like that. I don't think you want your GM just like hopping on the trends of the time and trying to build, trying to copy the Chiefs basically. You're trying to are trying to copy the bills. Or one of these other teams that we see score a lot of points. And maybe the thing you don't notice about the Chiefs is they really went to work on building up their run game the last two years. They built an offensive line.

They changed their running back room. They brought in receivers that could block that they could play close to the line of scrimmage. So if I'm a Titans fan, I'm not feeling that that badly about what Carthin said. And I would ignore all the nerds, you know, being up in arms about it. Wow. You heard it here first. A spirited defense of balance on offense from Stephen Ruiz. That's right.

That's right. That run pass ratio, right? Establish the run game. We're back. We're back to establishing the run. Yeah. So I'm sort of with you that I thought it was funny that everybody piled on this. I mean, I get it, right?

Like, I also, I don't know him at all. I sort of wonder if he knew what he was getting into by saying that, because there's part of me the things that they're, This is just like, this is like the Titans bit, right? Like, they love to, they love to be like, run the dang ball. His name, his first name is literally. His ran, yeah. His ran.

It's a form of the word run. And look, like, the thing that I think a lot of the people who focus a lot on stats and analytics, who by and large, I think, are smart people whose work I follow and and appreciate. I was pointing out, like, our old pal Warren Sharp was tweeting, you know,

the last six Super Bowls were won by teams that basically all had a top five pass rate and stuff like that. And the teams that have been successful, you can compare their EPA on passing plays versus running plays.

And clearly they all prioritize the passing game. We know this, right? Like, we all know this about modern football. It's important to be able to pass. the ball. But I think you're absolutely right, is that we are at a little bit of,

you know, there's a pendulum swing element to it, I think, where that has been increasingly true and increasingly prevalent across the league. And we've seen defenses adjust to it. And if you have a good quarterback who can play against, you know, who has answers if a team is going to focus on taking away deep passing,

which more and more, if there's one thing that defenses across the league are dedicating themselves to being able to do, it's to stop explosive passing plays. You need a quarterback who can deal with that. And also, it helps to have a decent run game.

If that's going to be available to you, it helps to be able to do it. And we see that every year. And just because the teams that end up being the best can do both and can pass the ball really well, I think it just defies using your eyes to say that we haven't seen that matter for Kansas City is a great example of it this year. Or you're right. Cincinnati is the other one that I was going to bring up.

It's like we've seen them swing so back and forth based on, okay, is this literally just all on the plate of borough making these sort of high-risk throws, right? or, you know, 50, 50 balls and passing on the outside and just doing all of that over and over again, when you don't have something to counter the way that defenses are going to respond to that, like, it's just harder to win that way. Of course it is. And framing it as September versus January is the silly part, right? Like, yeah, cool. Sometimes it's winter. It actually also helps to have a run game in September. That's what I would say is like, do it for all seasons. Have, have good. would have a multitude of good parts of your team. And I think our guy ran gets that.

Yeah, if he would have said like, oh, it's important for the team to be able to do a bunch of things well, like no one would have said anything. But that's exactly what he meant by what he said. He just chose to use some interesting terms, like Dolan State Warrior football, which is not a big.

Love me, this is Golden State Warrior Football. All right. I'll close this out. I'm going to ask you to guess, Stephen, who said this. Okay. So here's the quote. So what he does, he waters the hell out of it, and he puts it right into the stadium and that's it.

Never sees sunlight again. He can't do that. Is it about the guy that did the grass for the Super Bowl? The Sodfather has spoken. That's the Sodfather? The Sodfather kind of went off. The Sodfather gave an interview to ESPN's Josh Weinfest. He's 94-year-old George Toma.

He went in. Did he show up at the combine? He didn't show up at the combine. Oh, okay, okay. Can you imagine? Oh, my gosh. But, Stephen, I'll send you this article. Anyone should read it.

Should look it up and read it. It is incredible. So he says that the field was overwatered. And he just like went in on this guy. I guess the guy who prepared the field was like a protege of the sod fathers for years. His name is Ed Mangan. Manjin. I don't know.

But the sod father says... This is a Tom Brady Jimmy G. situation? Basically. And the sodfather says that the field should have been watered in the morning and then kept outside to dry before it was rolled into the stadium. But that his guy, his protege,

just rolled it up and put it in the stadium immediately. and that that was a terrible idea. He said that it was starting to decay and rot. He said it had a rotten smell. And he also said that his guy didn't sand the field enough. He said he sanded it two weeks too late. He had only one sanding. He should have had two or three sanding.

But he didn't do shit. And that was it. And not only that, he didn't take care of it. He wouldn't listen to anybody. Okay, okay. I made some disparaging comments about the sod father. I think I might have called him the fraud father on the recap show after the Super Bowl. I'm taking it all back.

I'm taking it all back. I don't know Saad. I didn't know Saad. And apparently his protege didn't. I do question his coaching tree. We might have a Bill Belichick situation here. We have a Belichick. He's the Bill Belichick of Grass.

Here's the end of the article. There's more? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Super Bowl 52 was Toma's last. He retired after more than 80 years in the grounds keeping business. I can't take it anymore, said Toma,

who said he hasn't been pleased with how the NFL responded to field issues at Super Bowl sites in the past. Me and the league are finished, he said. They can't tell me what to do anymore. We're done. I feel like that's been a theme of the whole show. It's just the burden,

the relief of not having to placate these other people. You don't have to appease Aaron Rogers anymore. You don't have to appease Russell Wilson anymore. You don't have to appease the NFL and their shitty standards for grass. And they're smelly fields. I'm proud of the sod father. Me too. Good for him.

I love the sod father. I'm team sod father now. Me too. I hope that the sod understudy, the fraud father, I hope he responds. I hope this becomes a war of words. By the way, open invitation. for him.

Either of those two to come on the show. Come on the pod. Open invitation. It'll be our first off-season island is they can come up with the grass

for the island. Oh, a dual island where you have them argue out in like debate over whose fault it was. Yeah. So the sod father

said that he's not blaming rye grass for the field's slickness, adding that he used dry grass for 27 Super Bowls. So, you know, it's a good grass. How does he decide which one, which grass do?

I guess it's a climate thing. It's probably a climate thing. Yeah, I think so. They have, you know, they have, they have, I think there's only a few different types of grass that they're allowed to use. But I'm not the sod father, so. I wouldn't know. Get this guy a podcast.

Can we get him on the ringer network? Can we get the sodcast? The sod cast. you heard it here first coming soon. Maybe Aaron Rogers could. Aaron Rogers is going to break his retirement or not retirement decision on the Sodfather podcast. All right. Well, until then, that's going to be a hard pod to top.

But until then, just wanted to mention, there was another big piece of news this morning. Stephen and I are recording this early Wednesday afternoon. But this morning, right when a lot of prospects and reporters and everybody was sort of milling around the convention center, police in Georgia put out an arrest warrant for Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter. The warrant is for reckless driving and racing based on evidence that was discovered through the investigation of the fatal crash in January when another Georgia player and a staffer died. obviously it's just a really sad situation. It's also really up in the air. I'm sure we'll have more news on just what's going on by the end of the day. Jalen Carter was supposed to speak to reporters this morning.

He had a whole podium set up. His nameplate was up there. People were waiting for him and a bunch of other players to come out. He didn't do that. That was literally right when this information came out. So it was a little bit of a chaotic situation. I'm not even sure right now if he's, still in Indianapolis. He's been here. He's done medicals.

It's obviously considered a top prospect. So the implications of whatever happens next here are going to affect the draft. We're standing by. We're figuring out as much as we can about the developments in the situation. But the draft show is going to have a lot of those covered. They'll have a few shows, I think, later this week. So I'm sure they'll be able to keep everybody posted on whatever we learn later. But just wanted to mention that since that has been happening literally right as we have been taping this show. But it's obviously a sad situation and we'll have to wait and see what it's going to mean in terms of the draft. Beyond that, thank you for listening.

Thank you to Stephen for joining me on this pod. We'll see you next. week and we'll have the rest from Indy. Thank you, as always, to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to our tune around the call and Connor Nebens for additional production supervision.