The Ringer NFL Show - The Vikings Can Win the Super Bowl | The Island

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Island’! Each week a guest tries to persuade Nora Princiotti to agree with an argument they feel strongly about. This week’s guest is Tyler Dunne of 'Go Long,' who argues that the Minnesota Vikings are real championship contenders. Will Nora join him on the island, or sail elsewhere? Host: Nora Princiotti Guest: Tyler Dunne Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. As I get older, I haven't had hair for a while, but as I became completely bald,

and Terrence Newman's demand, when I saw him out there, God, 2016, 2017, he convinced me to shave my head. So thanks, Terrence. But as I get older, I learn to understand culture does matter. It's not just BS. It matters. It does. If you do it the right way, right?

I think we're seeing it with the Vikings. Hello, and welcome to Steve Island on the Bringer NFL show, Steve. I'm Nora Pinciotti. We have a very exciting episode today. I am joined by Ty Dunn, who's the founder of GoLong. It's golongtd.com. Great NFL writing analysis there. I encourage everybody to go check it out. He's also the author of a book, a recently published book. It's on my bookshelf right now. It's called The Blood and Guts, How Tight End Save Football. I'm sure we'll talk about that. It's very exciting. Ty, welcome to the island. Nora, it is an honor and a pleasure to be on the island. I love the show. I got a lot to live up to. You had my buddy JJ on. It's hard to match that energy that JJ brings,

but much like we took him down and Media Cup back at Syracuse University, we'll have to try to bring it here on the island, so I'll try my best. Oh, wow. I don't think I knew you guys went back that far, but that makes total sense. So this is a real one, too, we've got going on here. I'm so excited to do.

talk to you because you wrote in a newsletter this week about a team that I was hoping we would get to talk about on the island because of the very exciting game, probably the game of the season that we saw the Minnesota Vikings win against the Buffalo Bills last Sunday. So without further ado, you're going to educate us on the Vikings this week, this episode. But tell us what island you're on. Okay. I'm Tyler. And I am on the Minnesota Vikings. And absolutely 100% no doubt about it

win the Super Bowl in this 2022 season island. Think for the island like a record spinning on a turntable. Only now, that record is skipping. It's time for everybody to take the plunge. This team is for real. And I'm sure we'll get into it. You know, we want to apply a metric to everything, a number to something.

And we can't wrap our brains around this team that's 8 and 1. I get it. But I don't think football's played on a spreadsheet. I really don't. I don't think that we can spit stuff into equation, get DVOA this, and passerating that. And, you know, this isn't a team that is rooted in numbers. Their culture was beyond toxic under Mike Zimmer.

Nobody likes playing for that guy, miserable to go to work, you know, play after player just broke that down. And it flipped instantly with Kevin O'Connell. They couldn't wait for that alarm to go off. And I think a general happiness has this team mentally, put this team mentally in a phenomenal headspace. And that was where they started before they even got to anything else. And I think that just that will to win,

the guts, the heart that this team has laid in the games, that that's the difference. I mean, they lost what? eight games by a touchdown or less last year. Right. This year, all the one of their wins is by one score. So,

you know, in the game of inches, Kevin O'Connell, he figures out those inches. So, yeah, they're going to get to the Super Bowl, and I think they'll win it. So we're to,

you think they will win the Super Bowl. I'm not even holding you to that because I'm holding you to, sometimes we do this exercise on the show where we go through the teams that we believe can win the Super Bowl. And often in any given season, and, you know, sometimes it narrows down towards the end of it.

But in any given season, there's often, like, I don't know, I feel like the sweet spot is like eight teams. We're going to talk about that later if you think that they would actually be the Super Bowl favorite. I was a little more tepid when I went that route. So maybe I'm not ready for that island quite yet. But we'll go with Cannes. We'll go with Pan. We'll go with Pan right now.

I like Ken. I like Ken. And it's, you know what? That is still, from my view, that's still going out on a limb to a degree. because, well, they have the fifth best odds on Fandall. They're tied on 538's playoff predictor machine for the third best odds with the Eagles. You mentioned DVOA. That's where they're really struggling.

They're all the way down at 19. Part of that is because they have those seven-one score wins. You pointed out in your column, the last team to do that was the 2009 Colts, who also went to the Super Bowl. So some good historical precedent there, I suppose. but in general, I think the Vikings are regarded

as a fringe Super Bowl team at best. It sounded from what you wrote so wonderfully after that game that a lot of this had to do with that culture change under Kevin O'Connell, who you had a long conversation with last summer that gave you some insight into why the Vikings are having the season that they are having so far. What was it that you learned from him?

Yeah, I think on face value, When he first listened to a coach like Kevin O'Connell, it sounds like every first year head coach, right? A lot of the same buzzwords, culture this, culture that, you know, we want to make you the best version of you. And there's a tendency, I think, for all of us to just roll our eyes and say, you know, here we go again.

We've heard this, like basically just, you know, insert a different head coach's name into this press conference. But I think when you really understand where this team was first under Zimmer and, you know, Terrence Newman, for example, here's somebody who, you know, played for Zimmer in Dallas and Cincinnati and Minnesota, coached with him. I think he's kind of been thought of as a Zim guy.

I've talked to him in the past, and he, you know, he has loved playing for this coach and coaching for this coach, and he's kind of rough around the edges himself. He's old school. I mean, it's insane that he lasted into his 40s at cornerback. But he put it so perfectly in our series I go along ahead of the season where

like Zimmer, it was just it was almost weird how he felt all this pressure as a coach that his own job is at stake and then he would just let it out on everybody else and it just created this miserable working environment and he's thinking like, dude, these guys are out there playing through injuries, playing through everything,

they're not on guaranteed contracts like, you, why are you miserable? And I think it just started at the top of Zimmer and trickled down to everybody and on top of that, players were terrified to make a mistake out there. I mean, his defense schematically on paper, genius, right? Look at Aaron Rogers. He would just look like an average quarterback at times against Mike Zimmer. Then the next week, he's, you know, back to his MVP form.

Sure. The X's and those are there, but Cameron Dancer said it himself. I mean, all these DPs, they felt like robots. They felt like robots playing for a coach who treated them like robots. And if they screwed up in that meeting room, they knew they were going to get cussed out to high heavens, and it was going to be the end of the world for a mistake. So what does that do?

Well, in the late in the fourth quarter, and you need to play, and everything's on the line, you're not going to operate off of instincts. You're not going to be reactionary. You're not just going to take that chance, trust what you see, and make that break on the ball. I think there's a reason they lost all these coolest games. Guys are scared of their own shadow out there.

That's not the case with Kevin O'Connell. He generally does want guys to be. be the best versions of themselves and puts them in positions to make plays, wants them to take that chance. And that's what you see, because look, the core of the roster is the same. They decided to run it back with Kirk Cousins

and gave this another season. So I think culture absolutely matter. As I get older, you know, I haven't had hair for a while, but, you know, as I became completely bald, and Terrence Newman's demand, when I saw him out there, God, 2016, 2017, he convinced me to shave my head, so thanks, Terrence. But as I get older, I learn to understand culture does matter.

It's not just BS. It matters. It does. If you do it the right way, right? I think we're seeing it with the Vikings. Okay. I have so many more questions, but you've got to tell us why Terence Newman convinced you to shave your head. Like, how did that happen?

Oh, my God. It's, oh, yeah, so it was 2016. I had just started a bleach report. I was doing a story of the Vikings. You know, they were off to a good start. even after Peterson got her, Sam Bradford got her, and I was just sitting next to Terrence Newman.

This is why he's just the absolute best. He's just blunt. It's the first time I met him, right? And he's looking at my, I don't know, we're not doing a video, but he's looking at my head, and I was hanging on for deer life up there. Like, just hanging on for dear life,

just a few strands. I didn't see it, right? Everybody else sees it. It's pathetic. It really is. I mean, for the longest time, I would just get my head shaved around the side and just,

Hang on to the last remains of a great society, as George Costanza once said. And it took Terrence Newman looking at me. So this is like October of 2016. He goes, what the hell are you doing? Like, let it go. L-I-G, you got to let it go. Shave your head. Don't turn back.

You're going to meet your future wife. They're going to, she's going to love it. He's like, don't, he's like, you got a beard. You got something to work with there. So no line. I'm not even making this up. After that conversation, I went home to Buffalo. I bought a razor. I shaved my own head. And a week later, I met my wife and we knew we were going to get married like the next day. We told all

our friends, like, this is what I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. And I proposed to a year later. And now we're married with two kids. So I tell, I tell Terrence all the time. I all have such a debt of grad. And she said early on that she, the ball, the ball thing worked for her. It was good. So I shouldn't have been scared. this is the best. Wow. Okay. So, Terrence, insightful guy, it sounds like. So insight into the Vikings, insight into your future, your sartorial hair choices. I love it. I love it. And you said that he'd sort of queued you into a little bit of the cultural shift that probably lets a lot of guys on that team play a little bit looser. Obviously, the ones who are games, both the ones that they lost

last season and the ones that they've won this season, that's the heart of why, like, there's a little bit of Kurt Cousinsiness thrown in, but that is the heart of why this team is confounding, right? Because one score games are pretty random. Like, there's certainly something, too, if you believe in the team's ability that you're playing for, if you're not afraid of being totally chewed out in the meeting room the next day, like, I'm with you. I believe that stuff's important. There is also a certain element of just like, there's nothing about the Vikings and what they're doing that causes Josh Allen to fumble that snap

in the end zone, right? Like there's a certain amount of just luck of the draw. The football is shaped in a weird way. Weird things happen in this sport. Are there any... But I do believe what you're saying that the culture

and the way that guys are feeling about the organizations they're a part of, that stuff does matter. Are there any players or are there any examples of guys or games or anything that's happened so far this season that you feel like really exemplifies that? That's a great question,

or because I've tried to wrap my head around that myself because there is a randomness, there is a luck element to football. I mean, my God, you can look at any game, really, and think, oh my God, if this just goes the other direction and the other team wins, and so how do you create your own luck?

I think that's it. I think that they do create their own luck. I think when you just attack a profession that's unlike any other, you know, football isn't, is not normal. It's not like going to the pharmacy or going to be a teacher. I mean, you go to work at training camp and, you know, beat the hell out of your coworkers in 90 degree heat. And your job is on the line every day. And you can be kicked to the curb at any second. If you twist your ankle, that could be it.

And after you beat the hell out of your teammates, you know, go in the locker room and then, you know, hug it out, go slip into the cold tub and talk about each other's families it's it's a weird weird world and I just feel like in this bizarre world that is pro football if you can somehow create an environment where you know guys are eight our guys are able late in games to just keep fighting keep believing um think positively I mean the game is so freaking mental it's way more mental than physical I mean, you've got all this four three speed dart in all these different directions and, you know, 260 pound guys with 6, 7% body fat. It's their own physical freaks. But I think mentally, in these, you know, nut cutting time moments, if you have the capacity to rise up in that moment, you're going to, the look is going to go your way more often than not.

Like, it's worth an 18 and yeah, you know what? just chuck it to Justin Jefferson down there, which by the way, side note, you give Kevin O'Connell so much credit for where as smart as he is offensively, he's not going to overthink it. It's like whatever you're doing on defense,

let's just throw to our best player nonstop. So that speaks to his coaching as well. But for him to make that one-handed catch with Cam Lewis having both hands on the ball, there's some extra juice there. I don't know. It's hard to draw that direct line, A to B,

but I feel like something about, that culture and something about what Kevin O'Connell preaches, helps make that play happen. Just, yeah, Josh Allen dropping the ball, I get it. Look, it gets the snap, he steps to the right, they win the game. But there's also Harrison Phillips in the middle of the line, just torpedo it in his head right in there. There's everybody collapsed in the pocket where, I don't know, it'd be really easy to check out at that point of the games.

And then you got Duke Shelley, the backups, backups, backup, you know, punching the ball out of Dawson Knox. at the end of the game to basically win you the game. There's a DB acting instinctively, not overthinking things. So I'm with you. Like the luck is part of the football. The football's shaping a weird way. But I think the good teams, the good coaches can make sure that they win those inches more often than that.

It seems like the team has really bought into that. And we talk so much about what sort of we, the, the, people who cover football and analyze football think of the Vikings. I haven't really had that many conversations about what the Vikings seem to think of themselves. And it does, you see Kirk Cousins shirtless borrowing everybody's chains on the flight home. You quoted Justin Jefferson in your column saying, I told everybody this is our season. This means this is our season for us to win out and go to the Super Bowl. We just have to keep working, take on week by week, go in there, fix our mistakes, get ready for the Cowboys.

It is one of the realizations that I've had about this team that they have that irrational confidence that I think you need to go all the way in the NFL. And for all of the prognostication about like, are they legit? Is this a bit of a house of cards, this 8 and 1 record? The fact that they buy into it and they seem to have that belief where it is 4th and 18 and just everybody thinks it's okay. like everybody thinks that they have the horses to be able to make it okay

and still be in that game. That is something that I do think is really, really meaningful and really, really matters. I also think that a lot of that, you know, you're around football players all the time. They know who's good. And if you have a guy like Justin Jefferson,

and even, you know, look, if you talk about Star Power on the Vikings, I think that conversation absolutely starts with Justin Jefferson, you could make an argument that it kind of ends with him too. But those guys know, Christian Darrasaw, Brian O'Neill,

both tackles really, really good players. I think elite players. Phelan is in a different conversation, but if we're talking about number two receivers, I think there's a very good argument that he is elite for that role in the NFL. Hunter, Zedaria Smith, great seasons on the defensive line.

Patrick Peterson is having a really, really cool resurgent year. Running back play, I think, is always hard to sort of separate the player from the protection, the blocking that they're getting. But Dalvin Cook is a really established, seasoned, strong player. You can see a team getting a lot of confidence from knowing that they have guys

that are going to win their matchups more often than not. And I do think that that feeds into the confidence that they seem to have. Am I missing anybody? Would you add anybody to the sort of elite group that is on this Vikings' rights? roster? You just hit the big names. I mean, Zadarius Smith is right there, you know, with Matthew Judon. I know T.J. Watts has been out most of the season, but the elite of the elite

pass rushers. I don't even say edge rusher. It's incredible how Ed Donatelle moves him around. It's like they find your weak link on the offensive line and then just unleash Zadarius right after your worst player. And he just owns you. He's figuring out. ways to rush from all these different spots. It's what he did in Green Bay, right? It's not a shock. It's pretty remarkable that that relationship soured like it did. And he opened up when we talked. He was not happy with how they dealt with his back injury and look at the Packers.

They could use the Darien Smith right now. So I think they have a star in Smith, right? Like you need somebody defensively that offensively that offensive coordinators have to prepare for, have to plan for, that keeps them up at night. I don't know how you contain him. And obviously, DeNeil Hunter, is Danielle Hunter and the transition to the three four has worked out. I think Harrison

Phillips has been incredible on the nose. Cameron Danzler at Corner, I mean, that's the guy. He's on IR now. We'll see if they can get him back later. They're going to miss him. He was fantastic. Consider where he was under Zimmer and all the mistakes he made late games

to give you a puncher's chance out there. I think Patrick Peterson has evolved. It looked like he might have been cooked at times. And, you know, I think in this scheme with the way that they're using him and how he can kind of use his mind. He had two interceptions the last game.

I mean, it looked like Josh Allen just threw it directly to Patrick Peterson, but I would think Peterson's leaning into all the experience over the years. You just know he's going to make that play when you need that play. So, yeah, I think that they have a really strong core. My concern going in was depth because Kevin O'Connell basically cut loose the entire 20-21 draft class all but one. or two guys. Right.

And so they're really, you know, they did keep a core, like they did run it back with Cousins and giving him another season, although they can get out, they was smart,

like they structured the contract in a way where they could get out of it if they, if they wanted to or Cousins is playing himself into sticking around now. But beyond like that core, I think a lot of these draft picks that Rich Spielman made the last few years

have not panned out. So I, that'd be my concern, right? I mean, if you have a few injuries, they've got one with Danciler, is the depth there. Hey, they just beat the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo with a Duke Shelley, right? I mean, way by the Chicago Bears ahead of this season. They didn't even play a down-up until Sunday.

I think that they can figure it out. I think that they can kind of patch up those holes when they arise. You brought up cousins, who we should talk about. He's so funny. He's like the most memeable, dunk-audible player in the NFL. He seems totally corny. Has puts up great stats like every year. Film guys are always like, this is not, that is not legit.

He's one of the players who just sort of seeing that culture take effect, seeing them celebrating wins together. It's clicked for me a little bit like, oh, this team really likes their quarterback. Like he's part of the mix there in a way that I have to be honest, I probably did not really predict. and probably short-changed. What do you think his role is on this team? Like, what is, what's the vibe? He can't move, obviously, right? He's maybe the most immobile quarterback

this side of Jared golf. I don't know. He was scrambling a little bit on Sunday, but yes, I'm going to say. I mean, that 15-yard run, when he lowered the shoulder, that was an all-time Kurt Cousins play. But I think that's why we have a hard time,

you know, putting him in and up our echelon too is he's just not as, you know, visually pleased into the eyeballs as a Josh Allen, even a Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, like, all these other quarterbacks just have some elite physical trait that is fun as hell to watch. And we stop what we're doing to watch those highlights. Kirk Cousins doesn't really have that one elite trait. So it's kind of average in our heads consciously or subconsciously that way. And then he's historically awful on Monday Night Football when the whole country's watching.

so that's there as well. But I do think like last year was kind of a mini breakthrough for him in a sense. And Rick Spielman made this this point when we talked ahead of the year where he's like, look back late in games when he had to put together a drive.

He did it. Like it was the defense that choked time and time again under Mike Zimmer. It wasn't really cousins. I mean, he had his moments, but late in the game, he really was putting together clutch drives. Usually was that one of

clock. That's that's Kirk Cousins time to shine, baby. But he was doing it. He was doing it. And I think, okay, if you can figure out the defense and you can just not, you know, peat on your leg defensively late in these games and give a game away, we would psychologically think of Kurt Cousins as a totally different quarterback. Like now we're talking about how he led a fourth quarter comeback drive. And he has, right? I think it's in my story, like four quarterbacks historically had this many fourth quarter comebacks at this point of the season about nine games in

only three other guys so I think that he has maybe turn that corner late in his career to just not be nervous not be anxious not screw up you know in epic fashion

late in the game like he might have before some of his coaches have told me like he'd get tense right he just would get a little jittery when the stakes were higher I think these last couple years he's figured that part of

of his game out. Also, these last couple years, he's had Jefferson, which helps. And he's unafraid to just force feed him the ball. Like, he's not going to overthink it. You know, there's a lot of great quarterbacks do because they don't want to throw a picks. I mean, Aaron Rogers, obviously, four-time MVP, Hall of Famer, you know, in the playoffs, he's, he's just not going to risk putting the ball in harm's way, which is a great quality. But it also can be a double-edged sword because you're going to miss out on some big plays. And Kirkland is, you're going to be a game. going to miss out on those big plays. He's just going to chuck it to Justin Jefferson, and guess what, Jefferson's probably going to make the play. And I think as we talk about them

and how they would fare in the playoffs, right? Like, that's an essential quality because they're not going to be the Super Bowl favorite. Like, there's close to no chance how this pans out that even if they win out from here, get the one seed, people are not going to look at them and go, this is the best team in the NFC. It's just, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're We're through more than half of the season, and I just don't think there's a way for them to play themselves above the Eagles in that conversation. And probably they're going to need, like, I don't think it's pure coincidence that they're in these sort of chaotic games. Because if Cousins is willing to, like, throw it up to Jefferson, sometimes that ball is going to get picked off. Now, it's Justin Jefferson.

So I think more times than not, that's going to work out in the Vikings favor. But the teams that take chances, they invite a little bit more chaos. And if they're willing to thrive in it, sometimes they can. And sometimes it's really cool. And that's sometimes how you get a team that maybe wasn't predicted to be in the Super Bowl conversation playing itself into one. I just really like that for them because it's also sort of scheme proof. Like it doesn't matter who they're playing. if part of the formula is just,

it doesn't matter if Justin Jefferson is covered. We'd obviously prefer to scheme him open. But if somebody's on him, he is still, when he is part of the progression, if there is a guy there, that's okay because we trust him to win. You get a heavy man team, that's fine. You get a heavy zone team.

You can probably work him into some spaces and get him going even more. Like, it just makes them a little bit more. stable no matter who the opponent is. And I think once you're playing only the best teams in the NFL, that's really important. I'll get to our moment of truth here. I'm on the island with you, Ty. I think in the NFC, the power rankings, I would, there's some room for, for toggling teams around here. But there's five teams in the NFC that I think can win the Super Bowl. And it's the Eagles, the Seahawks, the 49ers, the Cowboys and the Vikings.

And the Vikings probably shouldn't be fifth on that list. I mean, the Eagles are number one. It's really murky from there. I am a strong believer that by the end of the season, the 49ers are going to be a really, really solid, scary team that you don't want to play. But they are absolutely in that conversation. And it's for all the reasons that we just talked about.

I think that there's clearly a belief there. there's clearly a good connection between the coaching staff and the roster. And I think they have elite level play at the positions that you need to, to be able to go on a run in January. You have, look, you have a receiver who's already over 1,000 yards for the season, who there is no team, there's no defense in the NFL that I would look at the Vikings' offense playing and go, no, no way Justin Jefferson could put up 150 yards against this team, right? Like, there's just no defense in football against whom I don't think that's possible.

I think the bills have one of the best defenses in the NFL. We just saw him go to nearly 200 yards on Sunday. And then the offensive line, I think, is the most underrated part of why this has worked so well so far this season. And then you mentioned Zedaria Smith. Like, they are going to be able to pressure their opponents, particularly, I think we talked so much in the AFC because that division is so

that conference is so dominated by its quarterbacks you have to be able to get pressure on them and be able to impact a Mahones, a Tua, a Josh Allen,

whoever it is. Josh Allen is probably one of them more because of his scrambling abilities, more pressure immune guys, but nobody is truly immune in that way. And then, you know, depending on

health, the secondary is at least good. I don't know if it's great, but it's good and it's playmaking. Like, I don't know that I think Patrick Peterson, even with the resurgence season that he's having, I don't know that I trust him as like a top five cornerback, but you see him get two picks against Buffalo. Like, he can get those turnovers and make those plays. I think they absolutely belong in me. Can win the Super Bowl question? I am not with you when you started to venture out on will on the Super Bowl? I was with myself there for a second. I was trying to grab the words

and stuff them back in my mouth. But we said it was Cannes, and I think the Vikings are a Super Bowl contender. They are one of the handful of teams that with the randomness involved in the playoffs, right? Like that is part of this conversation. They are capable of doing this.

You've totally convinced me. Totally, Nora. And you made a great point earlier when you and you were talking about Justin and just, I mean, That really does strike me as a sure thing in a very unsure conference. I mean, the NFC is a watered down, just muddle mess where we seem to, we can kind of, you know, cease our opinions on every single team in this entire conference every week.

And a certain quarterback or a certain receiver, a certain coach seems fantastic one week and then just completely chokes the next. The surest thing in this conference to me is just Justin Jefferson being an alien. I mean, he is just out of his mind every week. It does not matter what you do to him defensively. And they're moving him all over the field. I mean, he's not why. He's in the slide. He's in the back field.

Week one against Green Bay all the way through. They've stayed creative with him to just try to shake him loose from double-triple coverage. And it doesn't even matter if he is double-covered. I mean, he's making those plays. And I just can't get the Super Bowl out of my mind where Sean McVeigh and the L.A. Rams, up until that last drive, they were mostly shut down.

I mean, the Bengals were taking Cooper Cup away, and they weren't willing to force being Cooper Cup the ball. And then when they needed a drive, they forced them the ball. It was like McVeigh and Matthew Stafford said, all right, screw it. Let's get the ball to our best player. What a concept.

And it turned out it didn't matter if he was covered or not. He was going to make the plays. And Kevin O'Connell was on that staff. So he's going to remember how they won that game, how they won it all. And give me Justin Jefferson and Kurt Cousins, beating Justin Jefferson in the playoffs, kind of over everything.

I mean, even Jalen Hertz, who was an MVP candidate, started to show some signs of, I mean, getting to be trustworthy, three, four playoffs wins in a row. They lost the commanders. I think Jefferson is probably the most dominant player in the conference, maybe the entire league. It's a cool example of how we've seen this season unfold where some of the

quarterback play has been up and down and guys fall in and out of the MVP conversation weekly as you said it feels like but my colleague Steven Ruiz wrote this great piece about how the season has sort of been defined by the great skill position players and it's very cool to see that happen for Justin

Jefferson and you know I think right now you talk about what's happening with the dolphins are a big piece of that conversation but in the NFC Justin Jefferson is I think the the torch bearer for that trend that we're seeing in the 2022 NFL. I'm so thrilled to be on the island with you, Ty.

This has been fantastic. Before we go, will you tell us a little bit about the blood and guts, how tight ends save football? Absolutely, Nora, this is a lot of fun. Thanks so much for having me. And yeah, the blood and guts, how tight ends save football. You know, I just, I wanted to write a book. I didn't really know the best way to tell the story of this.

sport that is just kind of defined my life as it's defined so many of our lives like we can remember it wasn't really a player, it wasn't really a team and it wasn't really an era. I knew I knew I wanted to do something and then the more I thought about it it is like this glorious position where you have to do everything. I mean you have to live in the trenches

you know roll up your sleeves and you got the grit and the grime and all the grunt work that goes into it but then it's also third and 10 and there's 70,000 screaming fans and you've got to make a play in the past game down the seam. I mean, you've got to have that glitch and that glamour to your profession, which is unlike

anything else that we're breaking down. I can't even take credit for like describing why football so weird. That was basically what George Kittle said. And it is just unlike anything in America when you're playing professional football and the tight end is the sport, you know,

personified in every possible way. So I just started traveling the country hanging out with Mike Dickett down at his golf course. Jeremy Shockey in Miami Beach at a bar. If you're going to hang with Shockey, you better get a little buzz going. You know, everybody, Tony Gonzalez,

Ben Coates, my guy down in North Carolina in his home. You know, he has a wad of chewing his lip, and he's breaking down his infinite number of injuries he played through. Unbelievable talent, he was in his unbelievable stories, too. I mean, son of a World War II vet, you know, building roofs from age 7 to age 20. All these guys,

Rob Gruncois, Georgia. kiddle, Jimmy Graham, Dallas Clark. It became a labor of life. I love, I mean, these are really the players that are saving the sport. And there's a ton of tight end, schematic talk in there, a ton of football talk. But honestly, I feel like the book became more of a life book. I mean, it had me looking in the mirror, examining my own existence on this planet when you hear how Dallas Clark lost his mother in his arms in high school and his life

could have gone any direction. and Jimmy Graham is fighting for his life in a group home and had to basically, in his words, become a savage to survive. Holy cow, I mean, the life lessons that these guys share, I think were pretty phenomenal. And I'm just glad that everybody else can kind of hear the stories that I heard this past year. That is certainly our gain.

Everybody should check that out. This has been the island on the Ringer NFL show feed. Thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you to Ty. Where can people check out your work? go longtd.com you can sign up to the newsletter. There's free options and pay options as well if you want to get all the stories,

all the podcast. So I would love it if you join the community. And we all hate Twitter. It's, you know, a rough existence on there. But I am on Twitter. It's a necessary evil at tie dot. So appreciate everybody reading. Just long form stories, profiles, all that good stuff. Awesome. Everybody can check that out. We will be back next week. for now, Shield Capadio will be up next on the feed tomorrow, going in depth on NFL news on

the Scramble. Thank you, as always, to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode and to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.