The Ringer NFL Show - The Week 17 Games That Matter and Season-long Awards | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 372)

Episode Date: December 27, 2018

Previewing the Titans-Colts, Bears-Vikings, and Ravens-Browns games (0:30). Plus, on this week's Take Shop, there's a surprising amount of playoff teams that could win the Super Bowl and there are questions about Matt Patricia’s coaching future in Detroit (32:00), as well as season-long awards and the conversations surrounding them (45:00) Hosts: Kevin Clark and Robert Mays Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Here at the NFL show, we talk a lot about football. Wait, why do we call ourselves a show if you weren't actually watching us? It doesn't matter. What does matter is when it comes to watching NFL football, you never have to miss a game with the Yahoo Sports mobile app. That's because the Yahoo Sports mobile app lets you watch local and primetime NFL games live on your phone. Tune into your favorite teams in the biggest NFL matchups,

wherever you are and whenever you want, all NFL season long. So download the Yahoo Sports mobile app and watch NFL football at the tap of an app. Now, back to the show. Yep, that does sound weird. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Robert Mays. I'm joined as always by Kevin Codickman. How you doing, buddy?

Robert, have you looked into the Green Bay Packers coaching service? I've heard the Jim Collball thing, which makes me extremely excited. Have you heard the second part? No. Chuck Pagano was interviewed for that job. I think Chuck Pagano is a very nice man. If he ends up being the coach with the Green Bay Packers, I will go out and have a drink. I will be so excited.

That's great news all around. Wait, you would have a drink to celebrate? It would be an incidental drink. You would just, you would just dedicate it to Chuck Bragano? Yeah, I would open a bottle of wine to dedicate it to the Green Bay Packers hire if they hire Chuck Baganor or Jim Caldwell. That's how excited I would be. Wow, I didn't know that said this big an impact on you.

I mean, I think that those are not good decisions. Matt, but the modern NFL. I know. Well, I will say this. Matt Patricia is making the Jim Caldwell era in Detroit look really good. It's very true. All right. we are back for week 17.

I appreciate you and Danny holding down the fort on Sunday night when I literally could not make words with my mouth because I was so hoarse and sick. But we're back at full swing here. So we're going to be chatting about the week 17 games. We're going to be doing something a little bit different formatting-wise for our Thursday show. We're going to start with the games because it's week 17. Because the games matter. Yeah. All that really matters are a handful of games that we would be talking about later in the show.

And we've spent the season discussing, you know, trends. and everything else and kind of larger scale conversations. Those aren't as important when three or four games are all that matters in a single week. So we're going to be digging down on the games that we're most looking forward to because they have the biggest impact. And then where we normally talk about the games, we're going to be discussing some of the bigger awards that will be handed out after the season just because I think that this year has produced some particularly fascinating conversations debates, whatever you want to do. Can I stop you right there until the listener, it's because you really, really, really. really want to talk about defensive rookie of the year. I want to talk about it,

but there are some other ones that I think have produced some worthwhile conversations as well. So we will talk about defense. That was, we typically have these calls, these planning calls, and they're pretty,

they're usually very, we know what each other wants to talk about. The rhythms are pretty much down by now. And so you hit me with, I want to talk about defensive rookie of the year today, and I was just not expecting that. I always like when I can kind of get you on your toes a little bit.

That's my favorite part about this. All right. Let's get into the games here a little bit. And let's start with the game I'm probably most interested in just because there are no other implications when it comes to these teams making the playoffs if they win. It doesn't matter. They don't need any help. If they win, they're in the playoffs.

And then with a few other circumstances, they could help their standing. But the Colts and the Titans are playing for a spot. That is as simple as it gets. The Titans can get the buy. Yes. The Titans can go much higher than the Colts. can. But I mean, for the most part, this game, if the Texans win is for the six seed in the AFC, if the Texans lose plus a couple other things, then things start getting very strange.

So you know how there have been a couple of instances, and this has happened with the NCAA tournament and in college football as well, where because a player gets injured, either a team seed is lessened or they don't make it entirely because the committee says, well, it's not the same team, there's an injury. The NFL Chanel out playing Gabbard in the playoffs. If the Titans win on Sunday, they need to, they need to, and he starts, and it sounds like you will, the latest report is that Mariotas says that he has basically, the injury made him numb on his right side, and he's very tingly.

How that will feel on Sunday remains to be seen, but it doesn't look good as far as his availability. We are very, very close to a, and let's, this wouldn't be uncommon for the playoffs. TJ Yates, he started a game. Who were the other kind of... Oh, yeah. I mean, AJ McCarran, obviously. We've had some bad starters, but it might be possible.

What was that Cardinals Arizona game in about 20... I want to say it was 2008 or 2009. Yeah. Do you remember that game? That was Ryan Linley. And I can't remember who was starting for the Panthers. It was Cardinals Panthers. Do you remember this game?

That was like 2012, 2013. No. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Ryan Lindley was only in the NFL in 2012, 2014, and 2015. I thought it was longer ago than that. Yeah, no, I remember that.

Oh, yeah. Okay. So it was the 2014 season. God, it seems longer ago. Maybe I've just tried to put it out of my mind. 2014 season for the 2015 playoffs. You're starting quarterbacks. It was Cam Newton.

I guess it was just Ryan Linley. It was just Ryan Lindley because everybody kept getting hurt. It was Palmer and then Drew Stanton. And that year I was trying to do. a story on Bruce Ariens' offense. And I called John Gruden. It may have actually been a conference call. And I was trying to get details on what impressed him about Ariens' offense. And he was so offended by the way Ryan Linley had run the offense that he got sort of annoyed that he had to talk about it. So here's what I'm remembering. That makes total sense, by the way. Here's what I'm remembering.

It was Ryan Linley against a 7, 8, and 1 Panthers team. That's why it feels like a really terrible game. I thought the quarterbacking on both sides was bad, but it was just on the Cardinal side. Would you like me to read you Ryan Lindley's stateline from that game? Are you ready? I would. 16 of 28 for 82 yards at touchdown. So credit to you, Ryan Lindley, and two interceptions. And he took four seconds. That was the Saturday Night game. Oh, yeah. It was very bad. Okay. So let's get back to this year's Saturday Night game, which will inevitably involve playing Gabbert. So that's kind of what I'm thinking here about this Colts Titans game is that I have it's like the NBA TV series in basketball. Yes. The one that no one ever watches. This team goes

straight to Saturday night. So I really don't want to watch playing gabber in the playoffs. Honestly, though, even if Marcus Mariotto was playing and he was healthy, I wouldn't have a ton of interest in watching the Titans over this Colts team. We want to see the Colts in the playoffs, correct? Over the Titans? Or am I the only person that's thinking this? Yeah. I mean, I think the Colts are slightly overrated. They did lose Cody Castle a couple weeks ago.

But as far as their star power, you know, I saw Albert Breer said this of the day. The Colts, he thinks the Colts have dynasty potential

down the road. Who said that? Albert Breer. Yeah, I don't, I understand the argument for that. For that. Yes.

Well, I mean, I think you start with Andrew Luck and then that's the biggest piece. But you look at some of their pieces. I'm not the one making this argument. I'm just saying from a,

from a star power standpoint, they've got it. Darius Leonard is. is what's legitimate. We're going to talk about him a little bit later in the defense of rookie of the year conversation. I just think that there's, I think people are so impressive

what Ballard has done early that they think you, they've built something around luck that could be special. I don't think, so I think it's really hard even to put together sort of a Seattle-esque run now. You know, we,

we talk about the changing nature of dynasties. Obviously, it's much different than it was before. There's New England as everybody else. I think in 2012 it was possible to do a Seattle, Esk Dynasty. Now I think that it's just really hard to do anything. And so maybe using a very generous definition of dynasty, maybe there's an outside chance of it. Luck is obviously the centerpiece. What happened with Reich is really important. But then you just look at how many holes they have on

the roster that are definitive. You look at the offensive line. They're pretty much set at most of those spots for a while. I mean, we'll see what happens at Wright Guard. You know, Joe Hague is starting there now. But outside of him, they have long-term starters at every other spot. Ryan Kelly is still a couple years left in his rookie deal. Nelson and Braden Smith are both rookies. Costanzo has, I believe, a couple years left on his contract currently, but that may not be true. He signed that extension a decently long while ago. So that may be a spot they need to address sooner rather than later. Yeah, his contract is up after next season.

So that's not a guarantee because that's going to be 31. But the offense, for the most part, you have Hilton. They need more pieces and they have the money to do it. That's probably the biggest argument outside of Andrew Luck and how. having faith in the Bowerd-Rike pairing is just how many resources they have to make this team better. They have those extra Jets picks. I understand the thinking there. And that's why maybe this excitement I have about the Colts is rooted in how good I think they're going to be more than how good I think they are.

Right. And I think that this is a team that's probably making the playoffs a year or too early. And at least they're interesting to watch. Yes, they're interesting to watch. They're entertaining to watch. I would rather see them get in. I think right now they are more dangerous than Tennessee. And that might be an aesthetic thing.

Tennessee style football is not nearly as fun for me. It's not as enjoyable to watch. I don't want to see it on my television as much as I want to see the Colts. Well, they don't have a style of football because they're just a dramatically different team from one week to the next. Exactly. Their identity is we're not sure. Sometimes we win. I just don't want to see that.

I would much rather see the Colts win this game. And that's why I'm looking forward to them just taking care of business, especially if it's against playing Gabbard. This team, barring some strange thing with the two and three seed, will face Houston. Do either of these teams have a chance of going into Houston and winning? Yes. Okay. Talk about it.

I would have more faith in the Colts doing it again, just because I think the Colts are a better football team right now. But the Houston team has such a huge variance. We've discussed this. I mean, their offensive line is such that they're going to be able to ping pong from game to game just to a larger degree than most of the teams in the playoffs are. And the Colts just beat the Texans a couple weeks ago, by the way. Yes, exactly. And they beat them in pretty convincing fashion.

None of these teams are juggernauts. The Colts almost lost to the Giants last week. By the way, the week before, they got shut out by the Cody Casasaro Jaguars. The Colts. And they almost lost to the Giants. Yeah, right. So there's not a lot of consistency in this whole thing. No.

So I would rather see a Colts Texans game just because I feel like it's an entertaining game. I'm not sure what sort of chance any of these teams has at beating the truly good teams in the AFC. So let's just say, obviously the Titans can get the two seed. There are a bunch of scenarios where other teams can. But for the most part, you're looking at the Patriots getting the two seed and the chiefs getting the one seat if they take care of business. All they need to do is win. So if that happens, do you think either of the teams in that six three game, whether it's Tennessee or the Colts and the Texans, could beat New England in New England?

Hmm. This is a great question. If the Titans won, they'd actually go to Kansas City, right? Right. So I guess it would be a different conversation. So I guess could they go on the road and win in the divisional round, either of these teams? Okay. So I'm really into studying why road teams aren't winning in the playoffs anymore.

I think it's fascinating. And we talked a little bit of episode on Sunday night with Danny Kelly. And a Super Bowl participant has not won a road. game since 2012, since the Flacco-Capernic year. So it's really, it's the, it's the, the, the, the buy teams. It's the team that hosts the AFC and NFC title games. Those are the teams that's getting to the Super Bowl, the top two seats. And what I find, by the way, I've Mandela affected that the Falcons were the top seed two years ago.

They were the second seed. Yeah, it was down. No, for some reason the other day when I was looking it up, I could not, I was stunned that the Falcons with a two seed. That's why the Packers win was so huge because then the Falcons got to play at home in the NFC championship game. But that's new they're. You need one of those in the division around if you aren't the number of one seat. That's neither here nor there. Now, the theory that I've made up that I'm now sticking to is that the reason, so Michael Lopez, one of the NFL's great data specialists, he was quoted in the 538 article that detailed this. And one of the things

he said was the 14 of 15, you know, 14 of the 15 major calls. kind of estimating that have gone against one team or the other in the last couple of years have gone for the home team. And the more I think about it, the more maybe as it gets to be a more of a passing league, teams are just passing, you know, short pass is the new run kind of thing, that those sort of judgment calls, legal contact, pass interference, stuff like that. Those calls are those sort of pass interference calls, legal contact calls that can change games are going towards the home team. I think about the St. Steelers game last week. Yes.

And just how many instances there were in that game where it's like this swung the game, that little tiny push in the back that wasn't a push in the back in the end zone. I mean, these things are so important in a downfield passing league because that call can swing an entire drive. Exactly. And so what I'm saying, I detailed all this in the Sunday night show, but what I'm saying is I'm having a really hard time picking against anybody playing at home in the playoffs right now and especially New England. So I guess what I'm saying is I don't anticipate New England losing at home. I anticipate them losing on the road, if at all. Yes.

I feel the same way. I like this Houston team. I think they have a lot of intriguing pieces. And I think that the best version of them can do a lot of damage. But going into New England, it's hard for me to see anybody doing that and winning. I mean, it's been a long time. The only games they've lost in the playoffs since 2012 are, both in Denver.

Here is the only way I could see New England losing at home in the divisional round. It's if the Chargers go to Baltimore and beat the Ravens, the Colts beat the Texans, and then the Colts go to Kansas City, and the Chargers go to New England in the divisional round. I think the Chargers could do it. Okay. Is this because they don't have a home field, so they just don't know any better? Maybe. I also just think the Chargers are the best team in that second team.

tier of AFC teams, and I think that they could go on the road and beat the Patriots, because honestly, I think they're a better team than the Patriots. Dan Lutz lot of a great column today. What would you think if it was the two L.A. teams in the Super Bowl? There's no way the NFL wants that. I don't think the NFL wants that. I picked it before the season. I mean, it's not necessarily because I thought about the larger implications.

I just thought that those were the two best teams in each conference. Yeah, the NFL doesn't want that. There's not how they can do about it, but I mean, I'm just saying it would be very strange. I don't want it. I can understand an argument for. why they wouldn't. But don't you think that with the Chargers flailing like they are a little bit, they would want a little bit

more exposure for that team just on a national level? Isn't everyone just going to be a Rams fan? It would actually be better for the Chargers to make it not the Rams. Yes. Yeah, that's fair. Then they could carve out a little South Bay niche, you know, that kind of thing. That's fair. I could understand that. I don't think they were... Orange County.

I could see that. I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, though. I mean, is it worse than the Rams and the Ravens making? it? Yes. Because those two teams have really, the Rams fan base is exploding and the Ravens have a really cool fan base

that we saw a couple years ago in New Orleans. Yeah. That'd be a great Super Bowl. How dare you... I'd be excited about it. Put out a hypothetical Super Bowl that would be kind of cool. That actually would be really, really funny if somehow this Ravens team with Lamar Jackson

made the Super Bowl. Yeah. I mean, you could definitely build some excitement around that. I'd be excited about any of these teams making the Super Bowl except for the Titans. If that happens, I would not want to be one of these guys who tweeted that Lamar Jackson should be a wide receiver. No, I certainly would not either. All right, let's move to the next game here with some implications. You want to talk about the Bears and the Vikings, which I find fascinating.

All right, lay it out for me then. So the Bears get essentially get to pick their opponent. I think you're giving the Bears way too much agency in this scenario. Well, no, I mean, no. That's not what I'm saying. that's not what I'm saying that if they lay down, the Vikings will win and they will play the Vikings. Yes.

That is, that is guaranteed. So if they want to play the Vikings, they can't. If they want to try to beat the Vikings, they have a better than 50% chance of doing so. I'm intrigued with the Doug Peterson Madnagie relationship. Remember,

they're sort of, they're Andy Reid brothers. And so I, maybe I wouldn't anticipate a total capitulation in that. sense because they do need to put up a little bit of a fight. I think it's going to be fascinating to see how this gets gamed. I truly have no idea. I was in Lake Forest today with the Bears and Matt Nagy was talking about what his plan will be on Sunday. And what he said is they are going to try to win because they can still get the... Yeah, but that's what every sort of giving up coach

does. All I'm saying is that they said they are going to try to win and that's how he's approaching this. And then it would have to... That's such a that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a you're like, oh yeah, I'll try to make that party. Definitely. But what if, I mean, the Rams have not been this lights out team over the last month. The 49ers have played considerably better over the last month. It is not inconceivable that the Rams could lose to the 49ers. It's not.

I mean, also, I mean, the 49ers could have been the Bears last week. I mean, they're a legitimate team. The 49ers are playing much better than they have any right to. Nick Mullins is your, is your, is your, new play action god. I don't know if anybody's seeing these stats. Kyle Shanahan has the play action god. Nick Mullins is merely his disciple. I love, I love people like, well, maybe Nick Mullins needs to go trade. Maybe the Jaguarsky Nick Mullins. Is Kyle Shanahan coming? Yeah, exactly. If you can bring Kyle Shanahan with, let's do it.

This is why I think that you have to try to win this game if you're the Bears, because there's a non-zero chance you can get the buy. We just talked about how vital it is to a Super Bowl chance for you to have the buy and play these games at home. Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. I mean, I think that, let me ask you a question. Nick Foles is the numerical worker. I knew this question was coming. He's playing as well as anybody right now in the league,

and he just won, you know, NFC player of the week. Literally, he played better last week than anybody in the conference. Who are you more scared of? The Vikings or the Eagles? It's really close. I feel good about neither of those games. Both of those teams are terrifying to me. For different reasons, obviously.

But I think that you throw that Eagles front forward into any game and they can just be a chainsaw in a bathtub that just tears everything apart. And the way that the Eagles are playing offensively and just kind of this fucking attitude that is working for them extremely well. And then you go to the Minnesota side of things. They're so good defensively. And they have been good defensively for a majority of the second half of the season. And I think they're playing better on offense.

So neither of those games makes me feel good. I still think that in Soldier Field, the Vikings would have a really hard time moving the ball. Sure. The Bears' defensive line and just Kaleel Mack, they have a monster game against that offensive line. I think that the Eagles have a better chance of protecting their quarterback against the Bears.

But I think the problem with the eagle, and I think the other problem with the Eagles is, the bears aren't built to take advantage of that eagle secondary just because they're not throwing the ball down field very well right now. So I don't feel good about either of those games. I think that, I think Dallas has a lot of weaknesses. But I feel like outside of the Cowboys, and even if you include the Cowboys,

we're going to talk about this in a bit. A lot of teams in the NFC can beat a lot of the other teams in the NFC. The playoffs are much more random than I think that people are giving them credit for. I have two things. You're going to get to that. I am going to get to that. So there are two things I want to address. Number one, chainsaw on a bathroom.

Chant saw the bathtub. If you just, like, dropped it in. I googled it. I googled it to see if it was a common phrase. It was like a regional Chicago thing. And I think you just, that's your phrase. Yeah, I don't, I've used it before. It's just like, it's my, I like it.

I just, I just didn't. That's my just visualization of chaos. I mean, it would go, just really if you want to fuck some stuff up, just drop chains saw in it. Got it. Okay. So here's a, here's a little to a thought exercise for a second. If you could pick the NFC team for the Bears and it's

can't happen seed-wise, if you could pick it, would you want to play Dallas? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Now, I don't want, Cowboys fans getting mad at me and pointing out that three weeks ago, you know, the overtime game happened all that because this Nick Foles team is just like mystical, I don't know, spooky. I would much rather play the Cowboys.

It's not even a conversation to me. I'm just more scared of the Eagles and whether or not that fear is founded or I'm just being completely irrational because of what we've seen for the last. 12 months, I would much rather play Dallas, especially if I got to host that game. Nick Foles being the best quarterback in the history. I would much rather play Dallas. And maybe that would come back to bite me. But just Dallas's style of offense doesn't fright me. I mean, they're much lower variance than the Eagles are. They're not going to take as many chances. I just think that the Eagles are a wrench in this in the way that the Cowboys are not.

Mark Cooper has like 52 guards the last two weeks. I have much more scared of the Eagles. And again, maybe as people play that clip as the Cowboys come to Soldier Field and win a game somehow. But even if that's possible, I would have to look at it to do it. But they'll find the clip. Yeah, sure. Or like the Cowboys are stomping all over everyone and the Eagles to do anything, whatever.

Something's going to happen. And we will be roasted. So obviously the whole part of all this entire equation is the Eagles have to win. The Eagles have to beat Washington. But do we have any doubt that's going to happen? Okay. Can we talk about this D.J.S. Warringer thing? What is going on?

Insane. So. Greg Minoski runs man-to-man simple coverage against Blaine Gabbard and Blank Gabbard makes them pay. So Sweringer suggests, probably correctly, they should have thrown a little more exotic zone at him because you wouldn't have been ready for it

and they just cut them instead. I'm sorry, what? Is there any organization that's just more of a joke right now or just more of a mess than what's going on in Washington or has been for the entire season? Well, they also seem to have fired a bunch of their business a staff today because there was some sort of power struggle. They're really on one right now. God, I cannot even imagine being a fan

of that team. I have many people in my family who are. There's no reason to think there's light at the end of that tunnel. Zero. Warren Sharp tweeted this out. Since Daniel Steiner bought the team, winning seasons the NFC East, Philadelphia 12, Dallas 10, Giants 8, Washington 5. Playoff wins. Philadelphia 12, Giants 8, Dallas 2, Washington 1. coaches Washington 7, nobody else more than four. That's almost impossible to do.

They're the Browns of the NFC. They just win occasionally. They win like every six years. Yeah. They're slightly less dysfunctional than the last couple errors of the Browns. Congratulations. Wow. Also like the older, yeah, no, no, no, no, but also the older generation of sports

writers, the guys sort of maybe 10 years older than us, remember the Joe Gibbs team so well that the Redskins cannot be branded eternal losers. Like, in our minds, they kind of are. They are. I don't remember. I started watching Super Bowl. What's the best Washington team you've watched?

Well, I started watching Super Bowls during, like, the Dallas era. Exactly. So I don't remember the Joe Gibbs teams. Yeah, what is the, like, the definitive or the best Washington Redskins team of your lifetime? Is it the, or just since you started watching? Is it the crappy Joe Gibbs team that, that played in C, that played in, like, played game in Seattle?

Sure. I mean, they, they've, they've never won, if you started watching Super Bowls in 1992, let's say. Yeah, I think it was four. Let's say four. Let's say your first Super Bowl. Let's go, you're more recent than that. The second, the second, the second,

okay, I was going to say Stewart's Cowboys. All right, let's go Bill's Cowboys. If that was your first Super Bowl, you have never seen a season in which Washington has won more than 10 games. They've only won 10 games three times. So everybody like Bill and like, John Gonzalez did in a pot recently. It's 25 years.

They asked me what my favorite magic moment of all time is because they've obviously never won a championship and all that. And it's always kind of weird sort of, you know, Nick Anderson's doing the ball from Michael Jordan type stuff. If you're our age and you're a Washington fan, what's just your favorite Redskins moment? Honestly, you know what I think it is? Is it the Sean Taylor Pro Bowl hit?

I think it's RG3's rookie year. Oh, yeah. The game in New Orleans? Yes. Not the first, I mean, maybe that first game, but he had so many really cool moments that year. Just moments where you looked at that guy and said, that dude is the future.

I feel like that was probably the most excited that you were. Because Joe Gibbs is, you're running back something you've already done, and it's just a poor factual game, 17 to 10. It's really not been a good stretch, and they're in a particularly dark time right now. Oh, my God, just think about the coaches that have been there. Norv Turner, Steve Spurrier.

Chris Sim started the last time. He started for the opposing team the last time the Redskins won't play off game. How about this? Who is the best Redskins player of this stretch? It's like Champ Bailey. Yeah, I mean,

when's the last time? Champ Bailey hasn't played for the Redskins in like 18 years. Oh, I know. I mean, it's absolutely brutal. I mean, it's probably, I mean, maybe London Fletcher? Yeah, maybe.

It's really bad, man. I mean, RG3 had the best season the 2012 season was amazing. Yeah, it was exhilarating. And it was one year. Obviously, you can't. No, but no, but it wasn't even one year. He got hurt in his playoff game.

Yeah, it was one regular season. I mean, he was unbelievable that year. It was very fun. It was the first time I think I'd ever been excited about watching that team weekend and week out. This is a team that had to turn to Donovan McNabb and his twilight as their new savior. They have been in a bad way for a long time.

All right, do you want to get to the old Redskins, which are the Cleveland Browns, and their game against the Baltimore? with Ravens? I do. This game is also pretty interesting because everyone's just writing off the Steelers and saying they're done because they assume the Ravens are going to beat the Browns. The Browns are actually kind of good. The Ravens aren't necessarily a shoe in to beat this team. And I think the Ravens are really good. So the Browns won, I think, five, six games. Yeah. They're playing as well as they have. And their only loss was to Kansas City, correct? In a decade. They did lose to Kansas City,

yes. Yeah. And I just, people keep batting like the Steelers are automatically not going to make the playoffs. I could see. I mean, also the Browns, they're weirdly galvanized and weirdly pissed off.

Not weirdly because they're, they had a feud with their former coach midseason. But it's just, this is going to be an emotional game. I also think that, so there's a couple things here. I also think that this is a really good look. And nothing against the Steelers who run a great organization,

but Ben Rathasberger is not going to be. on forever. Browns Ravens is going to be a fun, fun rivalry for a long time. I am a 12 out of 10. That's how excited I am to watch the Browns for the next five to eight years. Their head coach hire and who they choose is the most important thing about this. Are you chainsaw on a bathtub here, Robert? I might be. That is how much flailing is going on because I'm in such a good mood about this. I am there, them and the Colts are the teams I am

the most looking forward to to over the next four to five seasons. Because the Colts, we know who the coach is. We know their infrastructure. If the Browns make the right hire, I cannot wait to watch what Baker Mayfield does

just for his entire career. That dude is amazing. We're not even talking about offensive rookie of the year later because I don't think it's a conversation. For as good as Seque Juan has been, I don't know how you could pick anyone, but Baker Mayfield.

He's transformed that franchise. Yeah. And I think that they, I think the Browns, Greg Williams is coaching, I don't know if he's coaching for his job. Freddie Kitchens is coaching for something. I mean, you just don't know. You don't know what conversations are happening there. I mean, there was a report that Paul DiPadesta is more involved in the coaching search than maybe we anticipated. Obviously, John Dorsey's heavily involved. But if Greg Williams is winning in a clip that no other Browns coach has in a decade, I don't know, man. I mean, at some point, you at least give him a serious look. I think here's my thought on

Greg Williams. Here's my thought on Greg Williams. Here's my thought on the Freddie Kitchens. Okay. If you're at the Pagano Caldwell level, and obviously that's not, that's not going to, the Packers Coaching Church is not ending today. Okay. But if you get to that level as far as you're looking to hire somebody, if Lincoln Riley says no, if a couple other people who were higher on your list say no, I'd much rather have Greg Williams and Freddie Kitchens come back for another year than, then, you know, do the Jim Caldwell thing. I understand that they're winning more games than they won when everyone else, when it wasn't Greg Williams. But there are also other factors involved here that didn't exist when it was other coaches. They have a quarterback now. They have actually talented players on that team now because they picked in the top five for the last however many years. It couldn't have gotten worse than it was with Hugh Jackson.

It had to get better. And it had to get a ton better. The degree to which they hated that, man. It did not have to get a ton better. It did not have to get a ton better. I feel like it had to. I just, I don't, the idea of Greg Williams long term as your head coach is so scary. All I'm saying is, is that it gets to a point.

If four people say no, it gets to a point where you leave well enough alone. I'm not advocating the higher. I'm not advocating going out and saying, you've got the job, Greg Williams. That is like the absolute, you know, we see it in college football a lot. We've seen it happen so bad. We've seen it happen in the NFL. Yeah, I mean, it's never worked. Doug Marone was like that.

Yes, thank you. That my point is made. Yeah, they made the AFC title game last year. FYI. No, the defense rests. Doug Marone was like that. Mike Malarkey was like that. It's never something that you get excited about.

They made the AFC title game last year because the front office got a lot of good defensive players. All I'm saying is, is that if you, I'm saying that you should not pass on Greg Williams to hire Greg Williams by another name. That's fine. But I think there are better options out there than Greg Williams. I, I, I, I hundred, there's probably 15, but I'm saying that if you're coaching, there's going, there might be, as Adam Schaeffer reported, it could be a crazy carousel where we get seven, eight openings. And if you get stuck with a dud, just be the 12th Greg Williams job offer. Isn't it like 25 at this point, though?

I mean, it keeps growing. After this, my God. All right, let's get to this week's take shop. I alluded to mine a little bit earlier, but my take shop is that I genuinely think that the majority of the teams in the playoffs could win the Super Bowl. And that changes even more if the Steelers would happen to make it. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. We're going through this. So what let's, and this is contingent. I think the Steelers making it would

be in my favor here. I think that you think they have a better chance to win the Super Bowl than the Baltimore Ravens. I do. I think their ceiling is high. Okay. Is that is that true? Do you think, do you disagree? I think that the Ravens defense is such that they can win any game. Okay. That's fine. All right.

So let's say either the Steelers are the Ravens. So I think the Chiefs absolutely can win it. I think the Patriots can win it. We talked about the Colts and the Texans earlier. I think those two teams have a hard road. I think the Chargers can win it. And I think the Steelers can win it. So you think the Chargers are going up, but the Texans cannot.

Yes. Okay. I think the Chargers are a better team than the Texans. Okay. How do you feel about that? Do you disagree? I keep going back to this road thing. I think it's really hard to win on the road.

I'm not giving that enough credence here. That's what I'll say. I'll admit that straight away. Yeah. Okay. So I think that the Texans can do it because they would play less road games. I think that this Los Angeles Chargers going on the road three times and getting to the Super Bowl is a money mentally hard thing to do.

I think it is too. I agree with you, but I still think that they're a good enough team to individually, if you take those games one at a time to win those three games individually. I still think that. And I think there was very strange five-s-six. The last wildcard team to make the Super Bowl was 2010. It's Packers.

It's been a long time. I also think that the Chargers are a much different sort of wildcard team than we normally see. I mean, they could be the number one seat in the NFC. They're probably the AFC. They're probably the second best team in the AFC. You know, I kind of think I just just saw a graph that show that the best English primary league teams,

the top five English primary league teams are getting better than they ever have been before. And I also think that about the NFL. And I kind of think it makes all the sense in the world that with all this technology, with all this data, with all this new information, that certain people have figured out

what matters better than others, and it's really easy to hone in a what matters. And I kind of think that that favors the tippy top. It's a bit like the analytics story I wrote last week. The smartest teams can get smarter. and if you're not on that level, you're just not going to be there. And you're not even close.

And I kind of feel that way about just the modern NFL where I still in a weird way feel like it's the top two seats in each conference, and that's it. And maybe I'm just shallow, maybe I'm not thinking well, deep enough or whatever,

but I think that those teams are going to win at home and one of them is going to win the Super Bowl. Yeah, I can understand that. And I think that's probably the smart way to go. But I also think there's not, even if it's not a small, gap. I don't even think there is a gap between the Chargers and those top teams in the

AFC. I think they're right there. And obviously, the seating makes their road much, much harder. But in terms of quality, I think they're right there with those top two teams. Sure. I mean, I tend to agree. But again, they're going to have home field advantage. I just think that in looking at the state of the league, I agree with you. The Chargers have a lot of talent. I agree. If Joey Bosa played the entire season, this is a completely different scenario. And I'd also say the same thing about Eric Barry, by the way, who is still sort of snap limited we don't know what he's going to look like in week 17. We don't know what he's going to look like in the divisional round.

I think there's some X factors there. But I at this point am limiting my Super Bowl picks to the top four seats. That's fine. But also, let's just not forget that if the chiefs lose this week, the Chargers will be the number one seat. And by the way, it's not if they blew out the Raiders a couple weeks ago. I know it's at home, everything else.

But it's still one game. And if they lose and the Chargers win, the Chargers is the number one seed. I mean, that's still in play. So as a remote possibility as that is right now, I still think that we're not, we should not discount how good that Chargers team is compared to the top two teams.

All right. Let's get to the NFC very quickly. So I think if the Eagles win, we just talked about how scary they are. I think Seattle can beat anybody right now. And obviously New Orleans, obviously the Rams. And I think that the Bears, when they're, if the Bears ceiling with that

defense playing well, I don't think they're just similar to the Ravens. Like you just said, they can beat anybody based on how well their defense can play. I just think that especially compared to what we thought about the NFL eight weeks in, it's so much more wide open to me right now in my mind than I expected it to be a day after Christmas. A day, yeah, I mean, without a doubt. So who are your NFC teams? New Orleans. Okay. The Rams. Okay. I'll throw the Eagles in there just for whatever. But I also think the Minnesota is decently dangerous. Can I tell you something?

I love that in just literally less than a year, Nick Foles has gotten to the New England Patriots level where we're just never going to count him out ever again. Show me the lie. That's where I'm at right now. In eight years, Nick Foles is going to be quarterbacking like the dolphins. And they're going to be seven and eight going into week 17. Again, every game's going to be on Amazon Prime.

and we're going to not count out misfounded respect. Maybe it is lingering unfounded respect for the Eagles, but I still have it. And I also am terrified of Minnesota because I just think that team has so much talent too.

And then when you think about Seattle, we talked about this a month ago, and it has only gained steam since. That Seattle team is a horrifying prospect for any of the top teams in the NFC. Yeah, they have a really good quarterback, really good coach, and they've got talent everywhere.

It is a realistic possibility for them to knock off anybody. And I just think that, again, we're looking at this field, and I didn't expect to feel this way. I think that you can make a case for at least nine or ten teams. And that's shocking to me based on what I thought I knew about football two months ago. I have to be consistent. I do think it's going to be really hard for the Seahawks to win three road games. I guess next to impossible. Having said that, I don't see a reason.

First of all, I don't want to turn into Bill and Sal here, but what's the line going to be for Seattle at Dallas? Because I kind of like Seattle in that game. If Seattle weren't favored, Seattle could be favored by three, I'd still pick Seattle. Yeah. I think Seattle is a better football team than the Cowboys by a decent amount.

I agree. So I like Seattle there, and then I like Seattle maybe, maybe against, I do not think Seattle can beat the Saints in the Dome. I think they can. I don't think they will. but I think they can.

Okay. If that's fair. I know that's a cop-out, but I think they can do it with the ball bouncing the right way. I think that game will be close enough. They will be in it enough where it will be whatever.

I mean, just a couple bounces of the ball. I think that absolutely is on the table. So do you think that being, we talked about this earlier off air, do you think being scared of every team is because you have Mitch Trubisket quarterback or just because you just are an anxious person? I mean, I think one of those things

leads to the other. I am an anxious person, but I think he makes me more anxious. Is there a matchup you like here? No, Dallas is the only team I like. And you can't play them. Wow. I can't play Dallas. None of those other teams I'm excited about playing.

Honestly, I feel better about playing the Rams because I've seen them beat the Rams. Yeah, but I also have no idea what the hell is going on with the Rams right now. Me neither. I just feel like that's part of the reason this is also wide open is because I don't feel that great about with the Rams right now. Strange. All right. What's your take shop? Okay. So did you see the Detroit Free Press report today about Matt Patricia? It was fantastic. So Matt Patricia is just apparently late. The Detroit press turning on Matt Patricia. Late to meetings all the time. Okay. So we had this discussion at one and done coaches a couple weeks ago. You said the Cardinal should fire Steve Wilkes.

Sounds like they're going to. And it sounds like you were correct. Or at least they agree with you. I don't know if that was the wisest move. But they know Steve. Wilkes a lot better than I do. Having said that, I basically knew him through the anecdotes Ron Rivera told me, you know, a year and a half ago. So Matt Patricia is a bad coach. He seems insanely unlikable and he's late to meetings. He's rubbed basically everybody the wrong way. Haven't heard a positive Matt Patricia story. Zero. It's since training camp. This isn't something where it went bad after they started losing games. This was in August where we were hearing this kind of stuff. Also, let me say this before I get to my point. One of the things that Eric Manjini has said

since leaving football was that he regrets being so gruff with the media. And this is not me complaining. I don't necessarily care. But what I'm saying is that you love Bill Belichick. I love Bill Belichick. I love Bill Belichick and I love Tom Brady. I've had no discussions with Tom Brady in my entire life longer than five seconds. And I have had one discussion. with Bill Belichick, not anytime recently. Okay, so it's not, this isn't me complaining.

And so, but, Mieni basically says that he regrets trying to emulate Belichick, because he was, you know, trying to be somebody else. And the reason he did it was

because he thought that, how could you treat the media well, you know, if Bill doesn't, are you saying you're smarter than Bill? That was always the rationale. But he regrets it because, you know,

for obvious reasons, you know, the public's not on your side at that point. You really have to, to win. You really, really, really have to win in order to sort of get the goodwill if you're going to be sort of a public facing jerk, which he has been. He called out a reporter on his posture. He's just, you know, I was there one day and I was sort of in the back and we're doing whatever, but I was not a part of the scrum, as it were. But he looked at the scrum and said,

do you guys even like your jobs? Just sort of antagonistic. But again, this is not about the media. This is about wins and losses and then the whole picture here. you could be an asshole if you win a couple games. There are many of those. I talk to them all the time. They're assholes and they win and no one cares. Should the lions not fire Matt Patricia? The only reason, I think based on job performance,

he has just as much reason to lose his job as Steve Wilkes does. The reason that I wouldn't be as quick to do it is I'm not concerned about Matt Patricia ruining a top 10 quarterback that you just traded up for in his second season. Oh, you're just ruining the guy. They're ruining the guy you gave more money two than any all but two players in the history of football. I feel like Matthew Stafford is fully formed.

I'm not sure you can ruin him. I think you can do a bad job helping him out and propping him up. But I don't think you can ruin his career the same way the Cardinals could with Josh Rosen if they don't make a change right now. Based on job performance, I don't understand why you'd stick with Matt Patricia. He has just as much reason to lose his job. I was joking about this at the beginning, but it's true. Jim Caldwell is, Jim Caldwell never lost fewer than seven games.

That's good in Detroit. Yeah, that's pretty good in Detroit. I agree with you. I still think I'd rather have someone that's not Jim Caldwell, but it is pretty good. No one is trying to hire Jim Caldwell here, for real, but I'm just saying. What are you talking about? The Packers just interviewed him. It's the interview Chuck Pagano, too.

They're not going to hire either of those guys. They're bored. No one else can interview. It's fair. I like, I am one of these people who likes Green Bay. I like Green Bay. I like Green Bay as a city, but there's not a lot to do there except interview head coaches this time of year.

That's true. There's no much else going on. There's a very nice panera down the road from the stadium. You know where all the paneras are. You don't need to know in Green Bay. It's right there, buddy. Yeah, there isn't much going on. Right down the street.

Your superhuman ability to, that, I wish your super hero, like your superpower was a little bit more useful. Wasn't so esoteric. Oh, I'm sorry. A little thing called free Wi-Fi. File my stories. Do you just have a sense? It's like a spitey sense when you're driving by.

You can tell. You can tell by like the architect. of where you are. Like if you're just near a lot of like near a lot of like above average looking shopping centers. Sure. You just keep driving around. You're going to find one.

So you don't even use the GPS. Not necessarily. Paneras travel in packs. There's like a buffalo wild wings right behind them and like a like a themed bar, like a tilted kilt kind of thing around too. So you can you can't believe you don't go with a tilted kill. I'm sorry. I can't go anywhere except that has free Wi-Fi.

and phenomenal French onion soup. I was going to say, what's your go-to at a Panera? We are trending towards people thinking this is a live read and it's absolutely not. It is not a live-rate. I love me some para bread. I desperately wish I was being paid to say this.

And unfortunately, this is just my shame. All right. Let's get to our last segment here, which is talking about some awards. Can I briefly just say that the lions at the very least are going to fire Jim Bob Guder and then if they don't fix the offensive coordinator thing

next year, then I think maybe you fire Matt Patricia for real. I think that's totally fair. All right, let's move on here. Let's get to some of the season long awards that I think are particularly interesting this year. And the MVP is always kind of interesting at least, just based on the stakes. But I think the conversations around these awards, there's a lot to say, and it's very close in when it's not always. And let's start with MVP. I have to pick mine for tomorrow in a column that I'm writing. I went with Drew Brees, but I don't feel particularly good about it. And I would be willing to sit here.

and listen to the argument for Patrick Mahomes. Okay. So Patrick Mahomes has 48 touchdown passes this year. Correct. Zanifle researched out the other day. There are a million things I can point out yards per attempt. His stats are better. You have to concede that even if you're in favor of breeze.

At every level of stats are up. And there's a lot of advanced metrics and all that stuff. And in a piece, I would do this. But this is more of a sort of, it's not a debate show, but it's more conversation. Patrick Mahomes, 48 touchdown passes. Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers combined 50. In a dominant offensive year, he is the most dominant.

He, I mean, the eye test, the consistency. I mean, I said this on Sunday, but I think that the Seattle game was the only, or was trending to be the only negative DVOA game they've had on offense all year. I don't know if a hell finish, but it was at one point. point. And I just think that, you know, the Saints became very unsaint and Breeze became very unbreeze these last couple weeks. And luckily they were bailed out by their defense or else they'd have sort of a Rams as fall in December. But I just think that when you watch the Kansas City Chiefs, I mean, I think we would look back on it in five years and say, wow, we really overthought this

if Patrick Holmes did not win. I understand all of that. and I don't disagree with much of it at all. Here are my arguments in favor of Breeze. The work they've done late in games and how many games they've won and how many game winning drives he's led, I think matters a little bit. And I know the argument against that is the chiefs don't need to come back because they're always winning. But I think that what Breeze has done in high leverage moments this season is extremely

impressive. He's completing 74% of his passes in the fourth quarter, to throw nine touchdown passes in one interception. he's been really, really good when the game has mattered the most than they've needed him to be. The other side of this is, I think there are two more arguments

in favor of Breeze. One, it's not an argument in favor, but it's one of the reasons I think he might win. People want to give it to Drew Breeze. He's never won it before. And Patrick Mahomes is in his first season as a starter.

By the way, that's the reason I picked Drew Breeze in August. And I think that that has some, there's something to that. It doesn't make him more worthy, but I think it makes him more likely to win than Mahomes would be. And the last thing for me, I think if you took Drew Brees off the Saints and Patrick Mahomes off the Chiefs, the drop off would be bigger for the Saints.

If you look at where Mahomes has been put, I know he's been phenomenal and he's made plays outside of the structure of the offense consistently. But I just think we saw what this offense looks like with an average quarterback in Alex Smith. And it was one of the best five offenses in football. Drew Brees has Michael Thomas. Yes, he has Alvin Kamara, yes. But who else? It's Trey Kwan Smith. It's Ted Ginn.

It's Keith Kirkwood and Dan Arnold and Austin Carr. The Chiefs have the most explosive group of skill position players that I have ever watched play football together. Travis Kelsey and Tyree Kill are unique entities at their position. They have, in my opinion, the best play caller in the NFL. I don't think they have two guys at this point. And they're still putting up really good off. I think at there's but for the most of the season if you have Watkins as your number four option everything else and the other side of this if you look at the numbers for damien williams and spencer where

among receivers or excuse me running backs with 25 receptions or less they're second and third in defensive yards above replacement the scheme that team has put together can just plug and play anybody and score a ton of points these are screen passes he's throwing to these people and the screen game in can Kansas City is so well constructed and designed that you're going to get two or three trunk plays off of it just by virtue of it existing. Think about what they did against the Chargers early. I'm not saying that Mahomes is, I'm not saying anyone can succeed in the Chief's offense. I just think it is conducive to a quarterback success more than any other offense in the NFL.

With Mahomes, it becomes a monolith. But I just don't know. I really think that Drew Brees does more for his team on a weekly basis. Okay. So a couple of things. Number one, since week 10, Drew Breeze's defense is the best scoring defense in the NFL. Correct. I don't know if you've watched the Chiefs lately.

They don't have that at all. They don't have that at all. The fact that Mahomes is going to win 12 games is kind of incredible when you consider what he's got on defense. I mean, we've seen, I don't want to relitigate this, but Drew Breeze had bad defenses, very bad defenses for a long time. And he went eight and eight a lot. Okay. But that's fine, but those are, that doesn't matter right now. Okay, I'm just, I'm just saying, I'm just pointing that out that Drew Brees has been in these situations before and, and is not done as well as Mahomes.

The other part of it is, I saw this and this just speaks to Mahomes' dominance and it's not anything other than statistical. But the NFL said this week that Mahomes has already scored the second most fantasy points in history for a quarterback and needs just 12 points, even though everyone's out playing fantasy. Week 17, they've just 12 points to surpass Peyton Manning's 2013 season as the best fantasy season in history. So I'm just saying from a statistical standpoint. The numbers support Mahomes. I understand that. But I don't think there's anything supernatural about Drew Breeze's performance. I think if it was flipped and Drew Breeze was getting 12 or 13 wins with one of the worst defenses in football still, I think then that's when you make that argument.

I don't think there's anything supernatural but the eye test with Breeze I don't know there's anything crazy about what he's been able to do in the context it's not like he's got I mean he's got Sean Peyton is a play caller this is not Steve Wilkes he's got here he doesn't have Matt Patricia

he doesn't have Jim Bob Cooter but would you rather have Andy Reid or Sean Peyton I mean I have Sean Peyton is a really good play caller Sean Payton is a really good play caller I mean we were talking about Sean Payton 10 years ago the same when we talked about Sean McVey now he's won a Super Bowl

I mean like I just I don't disagree I'm just saying I'd rather have Andy Reid. I just think that Homo Homes is in a better circumstances. But I would also, it's close. Yeah, I mean, I just, I don't, I'm not seeing a huge argument for Breed. And this is someone who, who picked them, I think Breeze might win because I think a lot of voters are just going off emotion here. You know, any season where he breaks the record and all that stuff. I picked him in August. I'd love for him to win. That would be a great, you know, feather on my cap. I just think if I, if I voted, uh, I would vote for

Patrick Holmes. I can understand that. I honestly may flip. I was going back and forth on it all day. For whatever reason, I just think that because Breezes never wanted all that stuff, I went with him in part because of that. It's not a great reason, but I think it's so close that we're talking about the margins here. So, and let's continue with another conversation like that. Coach of the year, you could give it to five guys. Who would you pick? Great question. I kind of think. I kind of think. So to me, it comes down to

so we don't have Frank Reich in the playoffs right now. Okay. So we have to hold on. I also kind of think, may I say something. Coach of the year. Certainly may.

This is your podcast. May. It's our podcast, Robert. This is our podcast. You could say whatever you'd like. Coach of the year and executive of the year should be voted on after the playoffs.

That's fair. This is my thought. I don't think MVP should. I don't think MVP should. I don't think MVP should not. MVP should not. I'm with you there. Okay.

You could talk me into Super Bowl MVP becoming kind of like a con smith deal where they uh no what is that is that what it is that the playoff MVP yeah yeah so but they they they don't give finals MVP in hockey they give playoff MVP yes which i like which i like that too don't think and they give the most outstanding player of the tournament too like in the ncdbler tournament right hockey also gives out sportsmanship award called lady bing the lady bing of course i don't think i don't think they're going to give that in football larry fitzgerald would have fucking won the last one at every single year I mean, okay.

So Frank Reich's not in the playoffs right now. So let's put him aside. If you're going by who built the best team with, in my opinion, the least talent, I would have to say the Seattle Seahawks. I think it's Pete Carroll too. I still haven't decided, but that's what I'm going with in my mind. I think that the fact that they're even a league average defense is startling. So I have a question.

I have a question about this. You know, I think in a lot of times, and we're going to get at this, second, executive of the year and coach of the year get conflated a little bit. Sure. Where are we on John Schneider's recent drafts? I mean, they're pretty bad. Yeah. And so I think that's what's interesting about this, is that Pete Carroll has gotten this team to a point where we think they're going to go in Dallas

and win a playoff game. And I don't know how much talent they have. They have Russell Wilson, and he heals a lot of wounds. But running back in the first round, probably not a great value pick. I mean, I just think there's, there's, in a lot of cases, I would say that this is a coaching and scheme thing. And also, by the way, the Tom Cable has gone. Glow. Maybe we shouldn't give it to Pete Carroll because he kept Tom Cable around for so long.

Maybe this should be his punishment that he's not considered for coach of the year. So, you don't have Frank Reich anymore? To me, it's between Reich and Carol. I'm still deciding. I'm going to go with Frank Reich right now. I understand why you said Pete Carroll. I think he would have been number two on my list. I just think that because Seattle's offense has been more important to their success than their defense.

And Pete Carroll is a defensive minor head coach, doesn't call plays, things like that. That's why I give Reich a little bit of the edge because he's the guy in charge of the more important unit on a surprise playoff team possibly. That's why I don't give it to Matt Nagy because I think that, even though I think Matt Nagy might win because the Bears turnaround, I feel like I'm giving executive the year to Ryan Pace because, because, the choices that went into the bear's success and the reasons for the bear's success exist more on defenses and with their collective decisions than Matt Nagy's individual coaching job. Okay.

That makes sense. Yeah, sure. Can I throw out a name we're not talking about enough for coach of the year? Sure. John Harbaugh. John Harbaugh's in there. And why not Andy Reid? I guess.

What is that tone? I mean, Andy Reid does this every year. He doesn't do this every year. I mean, he's got a really good quarterback now. Okay, listen. John Harbaugh is totally fair. John Harbaugh built a great defense. He has built a,

basically built an offense around Lamar Jackson on the fly. And the choice to go with Lamar Jackson is not to be undervalued in this conversation. Well, I mean, Joe Flacco made that decision by being Joe Flacco. That's not necessarily true.

I think a lot of teams just would have rolled with what they know. I agree. You want to do executive of the year? Yeah, I think it's Ryan Pace. I feel like you could make an excellent argument for Chris Bauer.

when you look at the draft the Chris Bowler had. Think about Quentin Nelson, Darius Leonard, Brayden Smith, they did so much to beef up areas of that roster that needed it. But I think when you look at the totality of Ryan Pace's work, you have hiring Matt Nagy, you have the decision to keep Vic Fangio on as the defensive coordinator, which is partly Nagy's choice, but it was one of the reasons I think that Pace was originally attracted

to hiring Nagy in the first place. You have the draft that was very good in its own right. you go get Roquan Smith. You go get Anthony Miller in the second round. James Daniels has been a necessary starter for them because of Kyle Long getting hurt. The Khalil Mack trade, the free agent class that he brought in

every single one of them has been a hit. Alan Robinson has made an impact. Taylor Gabriel has made an impact. Trey Burton has been big for them. I think that every choice Ryan Pace made this offseason has helped the bears get to this point. And I just think that those choices cover a wider range of issues in top.

topics than Chris Bowers' choices do. Okay. Let me ask you a question. Do you see executive of the year as did the best job in the calendar year 2018 or did the best job building a team and you can go back in time and give them retroactive credit for things? I do. Calendar year 2018.

Because here's my thought. If you look at the team Ryan Pace built, drafting Eddie Jackson, inspired move. guys like that where it's like, okay, hey, this, in retrospect, this looks pretty good. The team that,

and this just goes by record and just the eye test and everything else, the team that Ryan Pace has built is better currently than the team that Chris Bauer has built. And I think that that may or may not be true

in 2019 or 2020, but I think that right now the Ryan Pace team is a little more complete. Okay. As far as what they did in 2018, I really do feel like it's Ballard. You outlined it.

Just the idea that this team, we've both talked to people in Indianapolis. I mean, they were just trying to rebuild, man. They didn't have very high expectations. They were just trying to get any footing whatsoever. They were trying to get any footing whatsoever, clear cap space. I think hiring Frank Reich was inspired, obviously. And then you get Nelson and Darius Leonard in.

I mean, Darius Leonard is really, really freaking good. Yes. And it looks like an absolute star going forward. So as far as what they did in 2018, exceeding expectations, if we're going to view executive the year and the same movie, the coach of the year, which is they exceeded the expectations placed upon them and made the playoffs, which seems to be the default for either, I think it has to be Chris Ballard. Now, aside from this conversation, I do want to point out that executive of the year

is a completely ridiculous award that always goes to guys who get fired like two years later. Yeah, it's ridiculous. But I still think the conversation around it is interesting to have right now because of those you guys. And let me, I want to make this very clear. I love Chris Ballard. And I think he's done a phenomenal job. I just think that when you take every single pool of the types of choices that an executive can make, I just give it to Ryan Pace. I think it's extremely close. All right. One more extremely close one and one more thing involving the Coles. Defensive rookie of the year, it's a random one. But I just feel like the race for this is unlike it has been since I can

ever remember. I mean, you could throw out four or five guys that I think are deserving. I think I would give it to Leighton Vanderresh because I think that the Cowboys' defense has been a bigger part of their success than the Colts defense has. He had to step in for Sean Lee and it's been phenomenal. But if you gave it to Darius Leonard, I completely understand. And if you gave it to Darwin James, I would completely understand. So Darius Leonard is the favorite, the heavy favorite. Yeah, I could absolutely see him. I mean, I understand the reasoning for it. He probably deserves it in a lot of ways. I'm having a tough time here.

I think as far as, I think there's a little, a few things going on. Number one, I think as far as, I would probably give it to Leonard based on just the impact he's having his defense. I think that Darwin James has had a lot of big plays and a lot of big games and has, has, in my mind, shaded.

It just appears like he's everywhere because when I'm watching him, he is everywhere. I think he's everywhere. I think he does a ton of different stuff for them. Between those two. It's unfortunate, there are some years that Bradley Chubb would have won this award.

He's another name you could throw out. He was in the, at least two weeks ago, was in the top five in pressure rate in the NFL, along with Vaughn Miller. They were the only two players in the NFL who obviously were in the top five

as teammates. So I just think there's a lot of names. I would give it to Leonard. I can, yes, I would give it to Leonard. I can see why Van, Vanderush is in there. I mean, between him and Jalen Smith, Sean Lee has basically been benched. There's no reason. I mean, he'll be cut next year.

Yeah. I mean, he doesn't have playing right now. Yeah. When he, when he returned to health, he was not a part of the Cowboys' Plants. Yeah. I mean, Sean Lee, it's, they have $3 million in Fed Cap. He probably will not be there next season. And that is possible in part, and their defense has lost a step in part because of how good late in Van Derrash has been. Hey, where would you like to see Sean Lee next year? somebody asked me that the other day who would want Sean Lee and I feel like the answer is everyone. Who asked you that?

Just the conversation I was having on Sunday while watching games. Okay. Yeah. It's just such an esoterror question outside of like Dallas. I think anyone would be happy to have Sean Lee. I think he's still a very useful player when he's healthy. The problem is that you can't afford to pay him $10 million,

which is with the Cowboys owe him next year. I think that a team would be lucky to have him, a young team that could use that presence in the middle. I mean, there are, the list of teams that wouldn't want him, I think he's only three or four teams long. One of them is the Dallas Cowboys. Dallas Cowboys are probably one of them.

I don't think the Bears could use him based on the players they have on their roster. But I think most of the teams in the NFL would love a Sean Lee. The Raiders wouldn't want him because he's good. Yeah, that's a problem. Just rules him out. All right.

I think that's all we got, buddy. What an episode. No format. Just all over the place. I loved it. It's week 17. I mean, there's really no reason to stick with the format. It's rather talking about the stuff.

No set list like Fugazi. That's exactly. Just no set list. Just whatever comes up. I've always considered this very punk podcast. All right. That's all we got. We will be back on Sunday night.

As always, thank you guys so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network.