The Ringer NFL Show - The Week 2 NFL Storylines That Actually Matter, With Lindsay Jones

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Lindsay Jones from The Ringer joins the pod to talk about some of the teams and upcoming games that have especially intriguing implications as we enter our second week of NFL action. (0:00) Intro/cold open (2:45) Are the Raiders the feel-good team of 2025? (7:34) The Harbaugh-Carroll rivalry (9:39) Is there something wrong with the Seahawks' makeover? (15:19) Mike Macdonald's messaging (17:06) Are the Dolphins descending into a season from hell? (24:05) The Tyreek Hill scandal Get a new phone & lock in a low price with Verizon. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Sheil KapadiaGuest: Lindsay JonesProducer: Chris SuttonSocial: Kiera Givens and Brian WatersProduction Supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Capadio. We're on to week two. Everyone's had their week one takes, but now we're going to look at storylines that actually matter going into the weekend. So we're cutting through the noise of the small samples and the overreactions and the randomness and all that. And we're focusing on storylines that actually matter. And to discuss those thrilled to be joined by my Ringer colleague, senior editor, friend Lindsay Jones.

Lindsay, first day we're talking about is the Las Vegas Raiders, and they are part of a Monday night doubleheader, which I just found out like yesterday, 10 p.m. kickoff Eastern time for East Coasters like me, but you are mountain time zone. Are you thumbs up or thumbs down on this Monday night double header? Well, thank you for having me. First of all, I'm thrilled to be here in potting with you once again.

But I don't know whoever asked for Monday night doubleheaders. I don't know who exactly this is for. And yes, I am an old person. And an 8 o'clock kickoff here in my lovely mountain time zone, it's just too late. I don't know how you people live on the East Coast. 8 o'clock kickoff is just completely unacceptable. 8 o'clock, unacceptable. 10 o'clock, the coffee intake is going to be very interesting for me on Monday.

But fun matchup, Raiders, Chargers. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about other week two storylines when we come back. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by Fandul, and the NFL is officially backed. So if you're going to be in it, be in it with Fandul. They've got the goods, futures, live betting, SGPs, Your Way bets, all of it. The app's clean, it's fast, and yeah, when you win, you get paid instantly, which is nice, because Sunday patience doesn't exist.

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Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HELP.com. Call 1-888-7-8-9-7. or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Paid endorsement. All right, let's get to it, Lindsay. So we've got three storylines we want to talk about today. Storyline number one has to do with the Las Vegas Raiders. And the storyline is, are the Raiders this year's feel good surprise playoff team?

You know, they get the win in week one against the Patriots. Best vibes maybe of any week one team, Gino Smith giving Pete Carroll the game. game ball, the locker room celebration. And now they take on a Chargers team that was very impressive in week one. And I guess as we might say at the Ringer, are the Raiders like a good bad team or are they potentially an actual good team that could be in the playoffs? So what's your sort of temperature check with the Las Vegas Raiders going into week two? Yeah, I mean, they were really fun. And I'm like very intrigued about the entire AFC West. I mean, looking at the standings after week one and seeing the Cheaps at the bottom, that's kind of started, right? I guess it's

one week or whatever, but that's just not something that we've seen in a while. So, you know, I think it was important for the Raiders to get off to that quick start. Going to New England is always really tough in week one. We're talking about time zones, right? Going out to the East Coast, that's 10 a.m. for their bodies, you know, having to start pretty early. So, you know, they got off to a quick start. I mean, I think Chip Kelly scripted up the beginning of that game. Great. I mean, you just watch it. It was like, bang, bang, bang, you know, chunk plays, Brock Bowers. It was like, oh, right, okay, this team, like, they're ready to go. And I think as the game wore on, maybe not quite as explosive overall.

I mean, I think, you know, it's stalled out at some points. I think the run game was somewhat disappointing. But just in terms of what we wanted to see, like the Raiders looked functional. They looked fun to watch. And they got to win. So I don't know what else more they could have really wanted out of week one. I love the term functional because it's been a while for the Raiders. There's been a lot of dysfunction.

over the years and specifically the last two coaches there, Antonio Pierce, Josh McDaniels, even before then, there was plenty of dysfunction with John Gruden. So I'm with you. It just felt it. And it's not totally vibes because they were, you know, players like Antonio Pierce. It seemed like you just felt like, all right, the coaching staff isn't necessarily giving them an edge. So it's got to be both those things. It can't just be the players having fun smoking cigars in the locker room afterwards. So what Gino Smith did, I think you, you know, that was a classic. This is why the hipsters love Gino Smith game. You know, he was just chucking it downfield, tight windows, nine completions of 20 plus yards

in that game. It was a lot of fun what they did offensively. Now, looking ahead, the two things that give me some, I don't know if pause or concern is the right word, but like I want to see it again. One is the offensive line because the offensive line was not great in that game. Ashton Genty did not have a great debut in that game. He had a couple nice runs, but overall the run game wasn't very good. and then defensively, I'm just going to keep looking at that roster and being like,

how are they doing this? I think Patrick Graham did a fantastic job in week one. He's done a fantastic job for years now with them. And their defensive line got after the Patriots. But you just look at like the talent on that side of the ball. And I think that's the big question going up against this Chargers team that was so impressive on that Friday night game against the Chiefs. Yeah, absolutely.

That's certainly what I'm going to be looking for heading into that game against the Chargers. because look, the Chargers offensive line way overperformed my expectations in week one. And I think part of that is the Chiefs Defense is pretty out of sorts right now. And that's something that I'm sure you'll be talking about on future pods coming up. But, you know, this was a group that didn't have Ray Sean Slater. I wasn't sure how this whole thing was going to work. And they were really good. Justin Herbert had tons of time.

The Chargers passing game was just clicking that entire game. And with a receiver group that, you know, I don't think any of us are like this is a group of world beaters. Like, we like Ladd-McConkie. But, you know, so I think that this is going to be a pretty big test for this Raiders defense again. I mean, I think that the Chargers offense is, I'll use that word again, functional. And they are going to throw the ball, despite how many times we heard on that Friday night broadcast, right? I can't believe they're throwing the ball. This is a running team. So the Chargers are going to throw the ball. They're going to throw the ball a lot. And so I am very curious to see if this Raider secondary is going to be able to hold up. And if they're

going to be able to keep up this pressure rate, right? I think they had 21 pressures in week one. That was the most in the league. And it wasn't just Max Crosby. They were getting some interior pressure as well. And that's something that they're absolutely going to have to do that on Monday night if they want to be able to beat the chargers and get to two and oh. Yeah, no doubt about it. The three-point underdogs at home, I think it's a winnable game. It's a game you mentioned the standings. It's like, all right, you know, you just click on the standings page once in a while this time of the year. And if, you know,

if the Broncos lose to the Colts and Raiders win that game, they are still in first place after two weeks. Last thing on this game, we get Pete Carroll versus Jim Harbaugh, round three. I don't know if you've thought about that yet.

I can't believe I took this long to talk about that. Yeah, I mean, we should have led with that. The rivalry. Yeah, it's the rivalry. It goes back. Stanford, USC, Seahawks, Niners. And now we are blessed to get

round three of Pete Carroll, Jim Hoy. It would just be so fun if there were some, you know, handshake, squabble, someone running up the score, someone doing something untowards at the end of the game. I'm rooting for that. If I'm going to stay up to 1 a.m. Eastern time, I got to see something like that at the end. And some of the best stuff with them has happened late in those games. So, yeah, fire up the coffee machine. Let's get, let's stay up for it. I do think they've mellowed a little bit

in terms of their rivalry. Like last spring at the owners meetings, they were like next to each other in the picture and stuff. And I was like, all right. Like let's, no, like, let's play this up. Like, somebody be the heel. Like, let's make this a real fun rivalry. So game one, we can cross our fingers and hope for some sort of like, what's your deal? Because those are the best. What's your deal? I actually looked earlier. I was Googling if there was like, what's your deal with Pete Carroll's face on a t-shirt. I was going on those custom t-shirt sites and looking at none out there. So if there's an enterprising listener who wants to put that together, I will definitely order one of those because that is still so classic. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. We're talking about Pete.

Carol's old team with our second storyline. This episode is brought to you by Verizon. Rookie debuts, underdog stories, bold trades. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing? A brand new phone with Verizon. Get a new phone on any plan with select phone trade-in and my plan. And lock down a low price for three years.

Get all of this, whether you're a new or existing customer. Now that's value you can't beat. by Verizon today. Three-year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Storyline number two for week two for me. Does the Seahawks off-season makeover already look misguided?

So they lose to the Niners, 1713 in week one. The offense has 14 first downs, 230 total yards, and two turnovers. first game of that Clint Kubiak, Sam Darnoldera. And now they go to Pittsburgh. And they're two and a half point underdogs, just in Fields. And one of the bigger surprises of week one, carved up that Steelers defense.

The Jets ran for 182 yards. And so if you're a Seahawks fan and you look at that, you say, our offense better look better and better respond here in week two. So what's your sense on the likelihood of that happening? And if it doesn't happen, what's sort of a panic meter at with this Seahawks? team. Yeah, I mean, they don't want to fall to oh and two. I mean, I think that's, you know,

that's really when we're looking at that kind of the entire landscape of the league this week. You look at those one one teams and who's in big trouble if they fall to oh and two. And, you know, that's a really bad spot to be in. You know, I think the Niners, there's a lot of questions with them right now at this point. But in this division, we know it's going to be super competitive. So you do not want to start falling behind this early. I just think what I'm thinking about the Seahawks this year, I'm glad we just talked about. the Raiders, because that's kind of going to be this cloud that's hanging over the Seahawks all year, because we're going to be comparing, how did Gino Smith play? And look, Gino Smith played awesome in week one.

And so I think we're going to always have this comparison of what did Gino do and how is Sam Darnold playing. Maybe it's unfair to compare them, you know, passing yards to passing yards and pressure rate and all of those sorts of things. but the fact is the Seahawks lost a game because Sam Darnold committed a turnover in crunch time. I mean, I think there's a lot of things that go into it. But ultimately, the knock on Sam Darnold for his entire career outside really of the first 12 weeks of last season, 12, 15 weeks of last season, was that this is a guy who kind of fails in those clutch moments and turns over the ball a lot, is not careful with the football. And that's what happened in week one.

So the Steelers defense, not great in week one, but historically very opportunistic. This is a team that Mike Tomlin coach team that is going to get turnovers, they're going to get strip sacks in the big moments. That's one of the reasons that they, you know, McToblin has that incredible record that we love to talk about so much, his streak of non-losing seasons. So I want to see Sam Darnold take care of football. And if he can't do that for two weeks in a row, I'm going to be real worried about Seattle. Yeah, I like your point about sort of the cloud because if you're a Seahawks fan, you're watching what Pete Carroll does, you're watching what Gino Smith does.

And by the way, you're watching what D.K. Metcalf does. Because, you know, they're facing him in this game. I thought he looked really good, really fast, was doing different things for that Steelers offense last week. And when I was watching that Seahawks game, it just, other than Jackson Smith and Jigba, you're like, who's going to make a play for this team in the passing game? I mean, all the volume was being funneled to him.

And he had a nice game. and he's a very good wide receiver, but it's just hard to get by when it's one guy and you're not sure who else is going to show up, whether it's Cooper Cup or someone else down the depth chart. So that's a big storyline for me as well. And then it's just the whole sort of messaging with the Seahawks in the offseason that they tried to sell everyone on, hey, Clint Kubiak's going to be able to scheme around

the offensive line. And they kept preaching two things. One is, hey, we're going to get back to a strong run game. And our play action pass game is going to help the offensive line. Well, they ran for 84 yards on 26 carries last week. No running back had a carry longer than eight yards in that game. And then they used play action on two plays. I mean, that was one of the biggest surprises of week one.

When you look at their preseason and you just look at all right, this is what they want to do. That was also really strange. And I know Mike McDonald addressed it after the game. So yeah, I'm curious to see with Clint Kubiak and this offense, it was only one week. Does it look different? Do they have answers against the game?

this Jets team. Well, one of my, I love this time of year on the NFL calendar because week one, there's so much excitement, but we also don't really know what's going to happen. And we've spent months, right? If you're a reporter who's out covering the league and national reporter you're going into training camps, or if you're a beat writer watching every single practice. And then us who are like, we're trying to consume all of that content and filter out, like what's real and what's not.

And they're like lying to us all the time. these coaches and these teams and everybody is so optimistic about like what their new identity is going to be. And you can get really caught up in like, oh, this new coordinator, everything's going to be better. Right? Because like that offense was pretty stale last year for a lot of reasons. And they needed to make some changes. And you can get really excited about Clint Kubiak. But ultimately, like what has Clint Kubiak done to necessarily like more? Great question. Everything is going to be better here. So this is not, Seattle's not the only team that we're in this,

this circumstance, right? But like, you have to make a lot of assumptions about this team is going to be better in 2025 because they've made change X, Y, and Z. But you can't really, you don't really know until we see it. And, you know, I want to see just a bit of a larger sample out of what this offense is going to look like. Because ultimately, there's a lot of places where you talk a big game about the changes that you're going to see and why your team's going to be better. But ultimately, your personnel is largely the same or you can't make a wholesale, you know, offensive scheme change. in one off season and have a click in week one. So, you know, I think they're one of those teams that I'm really looking forward to seeing,

like, at some point, that identity has got to match the language that we heard all summer about them. It just didn't happen right away. I love that point because it also applies to Mike McDonald, the language, the messaging, and then the actions. And in that game, they had a fourth and one from the San Francisco 19 with 324 left. Games tied at 10-10. If you go for it, you're taking time.

off the clock, potentially score a touchdown that puts you up seven instead of three. Mike McDonald, who I don't know if you've, you've been following this, but all summer, chasing edges is like his, has been his big catchphrase. We're chasing it. And I believe it. It's a good catchphrase. I like that, you know, chasing edges. But like, that's a spot where he said their analytical model, whoever's advising him on the headset,

said to go for it. And he didn't think it was the right time. And he didn't go for it. And I thought that told us so much about what he thinks about his team. Because he's not one of the, you know, he's not like one of these coaches who's like, oh, no, we're not going to follow that. I'm going to go with my gut. Like he's got the process in place where he wants the information.

He comes from Baltimore where they did that. He's a smart guy. But even having that information, he was like, I can't do it. I don't trust my offense to get a yard. I would rather trust my defense to stop the 49ers in this spot. And they didn't do it. They gave up a touchdown. So I thought in week one in a big spot,

that kind of just told you a lot about maybe what Mike McDonald thinks about his team and what he thinks about their best chances to win this season. So I'm keeping an eye on the game management with McDonald too, not because I think he's going to make dumb decisions, but I'm curious about what decisions does he make actually having the information and a good process in play. So that's going to be interesting this week as well. All right.

Storyline number three, are the Dolphins, the Miami Dolphins, headed for the season from hell? Are they that team this year where you came into the season? You know, you might have thought they were headed for that. Or you might have thought, you know what? They've been 28 and 23 with Mike McDaniel.

They haven't been great, but they've been relatively competent. Week one was not competent. They got crushed by Daniel Jones and the Indianapolis Colts. I thought they got out-coached. I thought Tua looked terrible. I thought the warts on their roster.

offensive line, cornerback, we're completely exposed, and now they return home to take on the Patriots. They are one and a half point favorites in that game. If they fall to 0 and 2, it could get really ugly, really quickly. What is sort of your vibe check with the Miami Dolphins going into this weekend? I have been struggling to remember a team where the vibes were worse. I just, I mean, the vibes were really bad all summer. Like, this was like the bad, All-Star team in training camp. Like, even when you would try to find, like, the local coverage, you know, I think you can kind of get this, like, positive spin on the team that, you know,

and there just was none. There was no, like, why this team is going to be better than you think they are. It was really, really hard to find really any of that. And, you know, I think there was, you know, you heard little bits of like, maybe, maybe, you know, you think, like, okay, they have Tyree Kill. When two is healthy, they've been a really good team. Mike McDaniel can really scheme stuff up. zero evidence of that in week one.

And I went back and I looked and because I was trying to think, I was like, what other teams have had really bad losses in week one? Like they can't be the only team that's like gotten blown out in week one. And there's lots of teams that have lost by 15, 20, 30 points in week one. There's not a lot of examples of teams that have kind of turned it around. And the teams that have turned it around, there have kind of been some sort of,

you could have some sort of explanation. I went back. do you remember the 2021 season? I don't know if you remember this year. Week one, the Packers lost 38 to 3 to the Saints. It was this weird game. There was a hurricane barren down on the Gulf. And so they played that game in Jacksonville.

Aaron Rogers threw two interceptions. They just got their asses handed to them. James Winston, I think, threw like five touchdowns. It was like one of the best James Winston games ever. And it was like, oh, what's up with the Packers? Like, oh, no. How many interceptions and Darren Rogers

throw the rest of the year? Two. All right. The same as he threw in week one. They went on, they were the number one seed in the NFC.

They were fine. That same week, the Titans lost by 15, let's see, no, 25 points to the Cardinals at home.

They went on, got the number one seed. Kind of a not memorable of a Titans team. If you had said who got the number one seed in the 20-21 season, I don't think anybody

would write off the bat remember it was the titans. But those are two examples of teams that kind of like got it together. That is not this Dolphins team. I do not think in any case the dolphins have like the offensive infrastructure, the coaching stability, the kind of the culture around to be like, okay, we can get it together. Everything about this team screams, this is going to blow up and blow up fast.

You know what it is? They are, I think, the most fragile team in the NFL. Like it's been like this for years. And it's, that doesn't mean they're the worst. team. They haven't been the worst team under Mike McDaniel, but most fragile team. Like, you know, you can turn them on on any given week and think, wow, they're putting up points. They have a real chance. But once things start to go bad, I think they just snowball. There's not, I hate to speak in football coach cliches, but there's no resilience to them. There's no like,

oh, this team can overcome adversity or to your point, this team can overcome a bad start. They're like a front running team where if they get out there and they're scoring touchdowns in the first quarter, Yeah, they can beat a lot of teams in the NFL, but I really worry about things getting out of control when they start to go badly. And it feels like they started to go badly. And to your point, this isn't just this game. This is the end of last season. This is the off season. This is Mike McDaniel coming in with a lot of pressure, maybe the hottest seat or one of the hottest seats in the NFL.

And so you add all those things together. Now you have injuries at cornerback. They had a couple offensive line injuries in that game. So you add all this up and you're looking at it. And I don't know if it's going to get better. And they're one of the teams that we know who gets blamed when things go badly in Miami. I mean, Chris Greer has been around for 10 years. 2016, he was named GM, a nine-year stretch where they have not won a playoff game.

They've made the playoffs three times. And it feels like he's still got really good job security. So if things go sideways, we know where it's going with Mike McDaniel. So I'm still like, I feel like could they be an okay team this year? I think that's possible, but my opinion's going to be shaped in a lot of ways by whether they respond and are able to beat a beatable Patriots team this weekend. Yeah, I mean, football-wise, if we're just talking like schematic stuff, I think the most problematic part or the concerning thing that's going on is that, you know, we're what, four years

into the Mike McDaniel kind of experience and we haven't really seen any sort of like offensive evolution. Right. We kind of know that they do what they do. and when they have done it at their peak, they've been unstoppable. I mean, right? We all remember them score in 50 plus, right,

against the Broncos a couple of years ago. And like, holy shit, this guy is taking over the NFL. Like his offense, the stuff that he was doing with motion, everything pre-snap, the way that kind of like loaded his roster with all these speed guys, like, we weren't seeing that anywhere. And now that stuff isn't really working. Defensive coordinators have largely figured that out because they haven't added a lot of new rigged.

to that. So, you know, this week, he's going to get to play, you know, a Mike Vrable defense, who has been around a lot. You know, I think the Patriots underperformed. I think we're pretty overwhelming, right, in week one by a lot of metrics. But I'm interested in that matchup. The Vrable versus Mike McDaniel, what is this going to look like? And I just, I want to see how Tua responds to and just kind of like what this group is going

to look like and if there's going to be some sort of life in this offense. Yeah. I'm not the biggest Tua guy, but that did not look like usual Tua in week. He was completely flustered. I do think coaching had something to do with it. The Colts, Lou Anirumo, they were dialing up free rushers. He was inaccurate with his interceptions. And again, generally speaking, if you're a Dolphins optimist,

they've been 38 and 25 when Tua starts football games in the regular season. So that was not necessarily the norm. But man, it did not look good there. All right. We're skipping the, not skipping the hurry up today, but Lindsay's staying with me for the, hurry up today because we've got this other Dolphins topic that we've got to mention. She talked about Tyreek Hill earlier and we've got more off-field news with Tyreek Hill.

His estranged wife has alleged in court filings via TMZ that he committed domestic violence in eight separate incidents. And so, Lindsay, I wanted to talk about this sort of what's the league precedent with something like this, the potential investigations that could come out of it with Tyree Kill. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Tyree Kill is going to be a major storyline for this entire season. I think when we're, you know, talking about on the field and now certainly off the field and going back and rewatching that game, the Dolphins Week 1 game, one of the things that really struck me was very early in the game. They were, you know, the broadcasters, they always get these anecdotes,

right, about like all the stuff that they've been hearing and what you talked about in the production meetings. And, you know, the way that last season ended for Tyree Kill was very ugly. It didn't seemed like this guy was a guy who was going to be back in Miami. He didn't act like it seemed like he wanted to be there, didn't seem like he wanted to have anything to do with Tua or with Mike McDaniel. And I think the feelings were fairly mutual at that point. And so the broadcast leads off of this anecdote about how like Tyree Kill was coming to the barbecue, but Tua through. And now we could trust him and he earned his trust back and all this stuff. And then flash forward to the second half and we see him ranting on the sidelines. Two days later, we're getting, you know, kind of this story about this really

messy divorce and very concerning allegations that are in there. And it would be one thing if this was like completely out of character. But that is not the case for Tyreek Hill, right? I mean, we've been talking about very concerning off-field behavior involving domestic abuse with Tyreek Hill for more than a decade. 2014, he was kicked off the team at Oklahoma State after he was arrested for domestic violence on a domestic violence charge involving his pregnant girlfriend. The reporting there is horrific, right? What he was accused of doing in that case. He was drafted anyways. He fell a bit, right? In the draft boards, the chiefs took him anyways. At 2019, while he was in Kansas City, was investigated for child abuse after his three-year-old son broke his arm. He was

never charged in that case. The prosecutor was on the record saying that he believed a crime had been committed, but there was not enough evidence to charge either Tyree Kill or his former wife. So this stuff has been out here forever. So when we think about something like this right now, where what we have right now, right, is sworn statements in a divorce proceeding. So this is nothing criminal right now. This is all like a civil proceedings.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of precedent, right, of how the league handles stuff that is within a civil, the civil legal system, thanks to Deshawn Watson and some others. I don't expect that Tyree Kill will be suspended, placed on any sort of commissioner of exemplist because of this. But it is something that is concerning. The league is going to do its standard. Like we're going to look into this.

It's investigation. But this is going to be a thing, I think, this whole season. Because when we're talking about Tyree Kill and what is his future like in Miami, is he a guy who could get traded? Would a team want to trade for somebody who has all of this history, this and active stuff that is going on? My cynical suspicion is that, yes, Right.

We've seen it time and time again. I mean, I don't think it has scared the chiefs off for a lot of players and certainly not hasn't scared them off of Tyrico in the past. So it's just, it's a really troubling start, I think, to this season and something that we're going to unfortunately have to be paying attention to more than just is Tyreekill going to, you know, torpedo the Miami Dolphins locker room, their offense. It's also what is his impact going to be on this season in general.

Yeah, I'm glad I thought the same thing with the broadcast, by the way. I'm glad you mentioned that. It's like, you don't have to do this anymore with this guy. I mean, he's got probably the most heinous off-field history of any player in the last 10 to 20 years. I mean, I don't have a list in front of me, but he's certainly on the short list of those players. And it's like, stop trying to do this. You know, this isn't a one-time thing. These are serious, legit, like I said, heinous allegations left and right going back to his college days. And now he's, I mean, it is a long time. Now he is a veteran in the NFL. So yeah, that very disturbing. Once again, Tyree Kill, you never know with him. You could wake up on any given day. And there's a new headline about him with something very, very disturbing. And then to your point, the football side of it, if he is somebody that a team would want to trade for, could there potentially be league discipline at some time?

So that's the football side of it as well. So glad we got that update in there, wanted to cover it at some point this week on the Ringer NFL show and Lindsay Jones, the perfect person to fill us in on the details there. All right, Lindsay, thank you for joining us. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing Kera Givens on social and additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal. I'm Shield Capadio. We'll talk to you tomorrow on the ringer NFL show.

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