The Ringer NFL Show - The Worst Moves of 2018 | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 354)

Episode Date: November 29, 2018

The Blake Bortles saga, rookie QB-coach pairings, and passing on drafting Derwin James are all among the worst moves of 2018 (0:30). The Redskins signed Reuben Foster, the Browns might look like a playoff team, and the Bengals could chase a QB in the draft next year (21:15). Plus, the biggest three games of the week, an appreciation of Doug McDermott, and a Saints-Cowboys preview (36:00). Hosts: Robert Mays and Kevin Clark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Here at the NFL show, we talk a lot about football. Wait, why do we call ourselves a show if you aren't actually watching us? It doesn't matter. What does matter, when it comes to watching NFL football, you never have to miss a game with the Yahoo Sports Mobile app. That's because the Yahoo Sports Mobile app lets you watch local and primetime NFL games live on your phone. Tune into your favorite teams and the biggest NFL matchups wherever and whenever you want all NFL season long. So download the Yahoo Sports mobile app and watch NFL football at the tap of an app.

Now let's get to the show. show. Yeah, that sounds weird. It's the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. How you doing, bud? It is raining in Los Angeles, California, Robert Mays. You've lived here before. You understand how much that cripples the city of angels. I've just been in straight ice for the last three or four days, so you have absolutely no sympathy coming from this side of the table. No, it's just very funny. No one, I grew up in Florida. It just rains for 45 minutes every afternoon. No one can drive. People don't want to leave the house. Everyone And as you know, everyone just wears their thickest Patagonia or North Face as soon as it goes below 70 degrees.

Yeah, it's a very strange city. I would still prefer that over the ice storm that I got in Kansas City earlier this week and just this straight snow slash sleet slash frozen sidewalks that currently is the hawth of Chicago. Well, it's football weather, Robert. Yeah, you know what? That works for me. We're going to chat this week to open the show about some of the worst moves of 28. There's been a lot of celebratory conversations on this podcast. Sure.

Over the last 12 weeks. It's been an incredible season for football. And we loved celebrating all of the great people who've made it this sport worth watching this year. Patrick Mahomes, Jared Golf, Shaw McVeigh, Drew Breeze. I throw Drew Breeze in there. Yeah, that whole gang. And on Monday, the Jaguars benched Blake Bortles. And what's interesting about that strategy, Robert, is that they didn't bring in a guy.

to push Blake Bortals. They didn't want to bring in a Teddy Bridgewater. They wouldn't have an open competition. So if you're starting the backup to Bortles in that scenario, that means you're starting a guy who's sub-bortals. A guy below Bortals is going to start an NFL game, and that is a pretty good jumping off point to talk about the worst moves of the season.

So when he got the extension, we talked about this. And I feel like even if you don't agree with it, there's a way to spin the logic of that move. because if he's not going to pass the physical and you have to pay him anyway and you're trying to open up your championship window and you want to open up that $10 million extra in cap space, I don't agree with that and causing more money, especially guaranteed money in 18 and 19, but I can at least see the rationale for it, even if I don't agree with it.

Yeah. What I can't see is by doing that and then doing absolutely nothing. Moving the money around because you think it's the best thing for just your overall team structure, fine. But committing to him fully while moving the money around like that is unconscionable. It's indefensible. So I wrote this. We both wrote about this this week, but I wrote a full column about it on Tuesday.

And the way I viewed it was if you just kind of squint hard enough, you could see the case to be made for Bortles in a very limited way. Last year was in many ways a plateauing of offensive numbers. Nick Fulis won the Super Bowl. I don't know if you guys noticed that. It was just a little bit of a different offensive year. Four of the top five scoring defenses in the NFL made the final four, made the championship games last year.

That's not going to happen this year. In fact, if you were to look at the top four seeds in the NFL right now, none of them are in the top 10 in defense. So it was just kind of a strange year, and you can't look at that season and say it was going to last forever. I mean, I think that no one saw what happened in 2018 coming, but you had to see a little bit of a difference from 2017, okay? So what the Jaguars did was they built a team around making sure their defense was good forever.

And, you know, the Jaguars became the chiefs overnight. The Jaguars are still eighth in scoring defense, okay? They just regressed to the- That's the drop-off, though. Yeah, but that's the drop-off. That's the drop-off. That's the drop-off. Everything had to be perfect. And that's not a useful strategy. Nothing is ever perfect from one year to the next.

There's too many injuries. There's too, you know, all of a sudden, J. Alain Ramsey looks human and everything falls apart. AJ Bowie gets banged up. The defensive line is now what or what? I mean, all of these little things add up. And the only way, and we talk about this all the time, the quickest way to solve every problem is to have a great quarterback.

You can carry a mediocre quarterback if everything goes perfect. But surprise, nothing ever goes perfect. Football outsiders has done a lot of work on this over a long time, not just over the last couple years, just about how hard it is to sustain defensive success. So if your formula is based on having the most complete dominant defense in the league, and that's part of your championship elixir, that's not going to be able to happen.

You're not going to be able to do that from season to season. And that's what we've seen with the Jaguars. They're still very good, but they're not as good. Barry Church is not having a very good year. They have, I think, 21 sacks compared to the 50 they had last year through 16 games. They had five defensive touchdowns last season. They have zero this season. And that's why it's hard to rely on that stuff.

And as I'm sitting here saying that, as a Bears fan, it's why it terrifies me that you want to build this linear trajectory for your franchise. You want to say, okay, we're this good now. This is part of a however many year plan. We've signed all the free agents for the next three seasons. This roster will more or less stay intact. But that's just not how it works. You don't get better for every single year just by virtue.

of being the same team every single year in guys improving. Because guys don't necessarily improve. I mean, there's a chance that Eddie Jackson just isn't as good next season. I'm sure he's going to be a great player, but is he going to be unconscious like he is right now? Like Ed Reed died, like the died version of Ed Reed? Probably not. And it's just hard to do that. As we've discussed, the ability to score defensive touchdowns depends on large part of the people around you.

Correct. I mean, last year they had so many strip sacks. I mean, it was pretty much what they were doing. I mean, yeah. I mean, even it's great defenses, even though they have great players from one year to the next, a great defense requires a small amount of miracles. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you need some bounces of the ball.

And you create those often if you have good players, but you still need them. And this is my problem with what the Jags did. I don't mind saying, let's get 10 million more in cap space to take a run at this thing. I mind getting 10 million more in cap space and using it on Dante Moncrief instead of Teddy Bridgewater. That's my problem with this entire scenario and setup. It's not that they signed him. Even A.J. McCarran, even someone, a human being.

I'm not saying AJ McCarron's good, but he's better than Cody Kessler. I, you know, I got a couple people my mentions this week bringing up, remember the fake trade I floated about Robert Griffin the third? How much different does the Jaguars team look if they have just an adult to back up Blake Bortles? And he can he can make plays and he can just look competent for small stretches. That would be the difference.

I don't think you would, I don't know if you would give up an asset for Robert Griffin the trade deadline. It didn't happen, obviously. But I'm just saying, if you have someone like that who can come in and make a play, that's valuable. So what do you think happens with him? Do you feel like he gets cut? They can't bring him back.

So they can't bring him back. But then you got a $16.5 million dollar dead cap hit, which I think six and a half million of it has offsets. So you assume that another. team will sign him because we know how NFL GMs feel about former top three picks and how bad they've been. Yeah, I don't know. It might be a tough road to hoe at that. It depends, I guess. You don't think he'll get another job? No, no, no. I mean, I just, I don't know the price point. I don't know the offset. I don't, I think he's going to have a lot worse market. I think NFL teams are are getting smarter in a way

that I think that when he comes in next year, it will be at a very, very low price point. All right, but let's even be, let's spend this the optimistic way for the Jags. Let's just say somebody pays him $6.5 million or more next season after he gets cut. And the Jags only have to pay him.

That's not going to happen. Okay, but let's just, hypothetically, that still leaves them with, like they're over the cap by $12.5 million. This is just a disaster because this is not the team that had the financial setup to be able to pay a guy not on their roster, $10 million. They just don't have the money.

Obviously, there are cuts to be made, but they're not cuts you want to make. Darius is pretty much the only one. And even if they cut Darius, that's $10.6 million. You're still over. And the other guys that you're going to have to cut in order to get under the cap and to have some financial flexibility are guys you probably don't want to cut. I mean, if you cut Jeremy Parnell, then you don't have a right tackle anymore. It's stuff like that.

They're starters. And you're going to have to go out and get people to replace those guys. And you're going to have no money to do it. I was reading the other day about a Ferrari. And it was a story about how Michael Schumacher, the famous Formula One driver, had to drive this Ferrari. And no one else could drive it because insurance companies would not trust anybody else with the car, except the greatest driver in the world.

Okay. If you pay $50 million for your defensive line, if you have the two best cornerbacks in 2017, if you have a pretty good offensive infrastructure and I think a good coaching staff and Doug Maron, why would you let anybody drive this except a competent driver? Putting Blake Bordos in the middle of that ruins the entire thing. It is one of the dumbest plans I have ever seen in modern,

football. I think the game changed since the CBA in 2011, so I almost consider it a different roster building maneuver. I think everything has changed. I'm with you on that. We're in year seven of the new NFL, and this is, I can't rank them all right now, but I'm, I'm straining to find any idea dumber than this. Well, let's try. Let's get to a couple of the other really dumb ones. And we've talked about this one as well several times, but it's not. not one single decision from one franchise. It's four different franchises making some pretty terrible decisions. The coaches that were paired with the rookie quarterbacks also indefensible, there's just absolutely no way that you can spin me an argument that even slightly

makes sense for the guys that were put with these quarterbacks. Mike McCoy with Josh Rosen, Hugh Jackson slash Todd Haley, I guess, with Baker Mayfield, Jeremy Bates and Todd Bowles, with Sam Darnold and whatever the hell is going on with that Buffalo offense and Josh Allen. I mean, good Lord, it's terrible. And we've seen what Baker can do, again, with actual adults in the room. Freddie Kitchens has never been an offensive coordinator. He's a running backs coach. And he's so much better than what Hugh and Todd Haley were doing.

It's amazing. And I also think there's a level of the Browns actually give a shit now and that actually matters. Yeah. I mean, there's an element there that we have to take into account. But the offense looks a ton better. They're helping out Baker in a way they weren't for the first half of the season. And it's just amazing to me that it took firing your head coach and offensive coordinator and promoting your running backs coach to find a decent play caller.

And the same thing happened in Arizona. I mean, Byron Left, which hasn't been burning the world on fire, but he's been much better than Mike McCoy was. When you draft a rookie quarterback, especially in this era of instant success, every decision you make should be to prop up that quarterback, every decision. And the idea that you just roll with Todd Bowles and Jeremy Bates, you don't even bring back John Morton who had some offensive creativity. I mean, all of these guys existed to be fired.

And I guess Steve Wilkes is different here because he's a defensive coach. But the idea that you bring in Mike McCoy, you brought in Mike McCoy, I can't imagine Steve Wilkes was like, you know what, Mike McCoy is our guy for the next five years. I mean, I just think that coaches overrate competence in organization a lot. And I just think, Mike McCoy, by the way, Mike McCoy did not seem competent when he was calling the plays. But the idea that you're going to hire a guy because he's done it before is a great way to fail. The Buffalo thing is a tiny bit different to me because I feel like that's more about personnel than it is about the coaching staff. We talked about how Sean McDermott's a pretty good coach.

I don't know how good if an offensive coordinator, Greg, Hang on. We have an entire Sean McDermott as a good coach segment coming. Oh, that's right. That's right. I'm sorry. I didn't want to, I didn't mean to step on that.

Oh, no, who's the, I'm sorry. Who's the bad coach or the. Marvin Lewis? No, who's the office coordinator for the bills? I said Greg Roman.

That's not true. It's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, Brian Dable. That's, uh,

it's, uh, another guy who is essentially in the Greg Roman mold. Like, Brian Dable and Greg Roman are pretty much the same person. of the just guys that have been on 10 different coaching staffs and do a decent, but not great job. Was the Alphinsicorna to Alabama? I know.

He's a, well, he's a Belichick guy. Yeah, no, I know that he's a coordinator. He's a coordinator for the dolphins and all that. So, I mean, yeah, I don't know if Brian Dable is a good or bad offensive coordinator. I just know the players on that team are not NFL players on the offense. You know, the defense has been very good this season. But the other guys, it's more so about the infrastructure coaching staff-wise. And I feel like, I mean, we already.

know that Hugh is gone. Do you assume that Bowles has gone at the end of the season as well? I think you have to. Oh, God, yes. And so those two are pretty much given to me, and they've gotten more than one year, and I think that it's fair. Don't like calling for people's jobs, but eventually changes need to be made

when you're not winning any games. The Wilkes thing is a little bit more curious because it's only his first season. I kind of think that they should at least consider what the right thing to do is here. Because, like, you just... Yeah.

I don't know about that one. I think you can hire... You just hate defensive coordinators as head coaches. We just said all you should be doing is everything you can hire a play caller who's a little different. Who's better? You can hire a play caller to help prop that up. You don't need to just automatically hire an offensive head coach. Yeah.

I was thinking about this in regard to Freddie Kitchens. Somebody tweeted it, and I can't remember exactly who, so I apologize. They were talking about, let's say Kitchens does get the offensive coordinator job in Cleveland, and they bring in another head coach. If he kills it again next year, he's going to go get a head coaching job. That's the beauty of having your offensive coordinator be your head coach, is that you never have to worry about that. It's stable.

There's nobody going anywhere, and that's why I think that more and more teams should start doing it. I mean, I guess. I mean, I think there's still drawbacks to having an offensive head coach. I mean, look what happened to the Saints for like five years where they just didn't have a defense. I mean, it's not like offensive head coaches are just going to automatically build you a great team. They might build you a great offense. Listen, isn't that all you need now? I get.

We're going to find out in the playoffs. What I'm saying is I generally agree with you. I generally agree with you. It's something that I forget which book it was, was one of those strategy books that I really like that talked about in the show a lot. And they quoted Bill Walsh. And he was saying, you know, I would always hire an offensive. head coach because offensive head coaches are the ones actually coming up with attack plans. And defensive head coaches are reacting.

And so it's much harder, I guess, for, I guess what he's saying is that the offensive head coaches have to conceptualize more. And that makes you more likely to be a good head coach, I guess. That was that was Walsh's point. I mean, I can see that. Certainly he was, he was a very good offensive head coach. You might say. But so I generally agree with you.

I'm just saying, let's not throw the baby out with the bath wall. water. And, you know, if Dave Tobes is a good candidate, hire Dave Tob. I'm just, I wouldn't go around hiring an offensive guy just to hire him. I wouldn't go out and get Matt Lafleur for some reason if there's a good defensive coordinator out there. I mean, there's a lot of good defensive coaches who have, who've succeeded as head coach. If the right guy is there, then maybe, but I'm leaning so heavily toward the offensive guys now. We've just seen it work too many times in the last couple years. All right, here's my last one. And it's timely today because I just wrote about him. But one of the dumbest decisions of the year is 16 teams passing on Derwin James in the draft.

Yeah. It's just, it makes no sense. It made no sense in the moment. And as soon as we saw him play, it made less sense. The guy does absolutely everything. He has the highest pass rush productivity in the league by almost like 35%. It's unbelievable. He's only rushed the past like 43 times.

He's got nine hurries. The guy just does so much. he creates so much havoc at every level of the field. The game plan that the Chargers use week to week, you essentially know what they're doing and know what they're trying to stop by virtue of where he is. He's, I mean, it's, they can put him wherever. He's such a weapon.

And as offenses in the NFL change so rapidly, you have these teams of so many personnel packages, the chiefs are a good example. It's so vital to have a guy like him that's almost like a movable chest piece in terms of a personnel package for a defense. which is very rare. Like you said,

most defenses are reactionary. And the idea that the chargers can be a little bit more on the offensive and a little bit more in attack mode because they have a guy like him, it changes their entire complexion on that side of the ball. You know, this is a very Bill Simmons type theory, but I want to be really see Miami. I like watching Miami football. Jalen Ramsey and Derwin James were two of the guys who,

I just really hated that we had to play against. I mean, they were just all over the field. over the past, you know, seven years that they were, they were on the respective rosters at FSU. And it really pissed me off to have to go against them. And that's a pretty good sign of a guy who is a disruptive force. I hated seeing either of those guys across the field from whichever incompetent Miami quarterback,

they happened to be throwing out at that time. And when you see the athletic testing numbers, which obviously I put a lot of faith in, I just don't understand how 16 teams pass. There's always... What are the buck? doing. The bucks is the best one.

I mean, he was mocked to the bucks in so many drafts and they needed him more than they needed any other position. They're like, now we're okay. Mike Smith was a defensive coordinator in 2018. That's this year. Mike Smith, like four

months ago, said the number one thing in the NFL is stopping the run. And it's why they draft Vita Valle with the seven of overall pick. Mike Smith, have you watched a football game lately? at any point in the last two years, three years, seven years. I was talking to Derwin about this,

and we were just discussing kind of the boxes you need to check off when you're going into the draft. One is college production. He was an immensely productive college player. He was so, so good. Two is testing. Do you just destroy the combine, which he did? And three is personality.

And he was the man at that program full of dudes who were the best players in the country as high schoolers. Did you just go full Trent Delfare on us? I say dudes all the time. No, full of dude. Just the dude, okay, okay. They're just full of guys who are the top 10 recruits all over America. And Dervyn James is the guy that they look to and like, that guy's the man.

It just, I love every single part of it. Delvin Cook told me a story that when Derwin got to campus as a freshman, Delvin was a sophomore. And their first day meeting, you know, you know how teams, treat freshmen. I mean, there's just, you look down on them, they're treated a certain way, they have a certain authority, and it's just not much. So Dalvin Cook, who's already kind of blossoming into a star at Florida State, meets Darwin James, and in like 10 minutes is like, this guy's awesome, and he's now my best friend. And they play video games until like five in the

morning, the first day they ever met. That just doesn't happen in a college football locker room, not with freshmen. He's got something about him. And the fact that 16 teams, combined with the athletic testing and what he was as a player in college, that something about him wasn't enough, it just baffles me. It's like the Pied Piper, like Baker Mayfield, according to Hugh Jackson.

There you go. All right, so let's chat about one more thing here before we get to take shop and the rest of the show. Ruben Foster, after being released. Wait, I'm sorry.

I just want to point out that one of the worst moves of this season was trading Colomack. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I'm very happy about that. I would have to talk about it very much.

It's settled, but... It was a bad move for the Raiders are saying. yes. Okay. All right. Just making sure. Yeah, we're in agreement on that one. I don't know if you watch much Bears this year, but I've never seen a Bears game ever in my life. Yeah, not good. All right. Let's talk about Urban Foster for a second because that's speaking of bad moves. I mean, so he gets cut by the Niners when they're in Tampa because of another domestic violence incident, which is not his first. I mean, it's been a repeat thing. They've given him the benefit of the doubt more than once,

even including when they drafted him based on some of the stuff that had come out about him, he gets cut by Tampa on Sunday, correct? Sunday morning. And then a couple days later, Washington thinks for some reason it's a good idea to sign him and then say, well, you know,

if any of this is true, then we just won't tolerate any of it, but we asked all his college teammates and they really vouched for him. And then reporters went and talked to a bunch of those college teammates. Nope, didn't talk to him. Also, Washington did, did not call the Tampa police and ask what happened.

So you saying if this is true, it's a real big problem. And then not trying to find out whether it's true probably isn't the best way to go about it. So Doug Williams, who is the de facto GM there, was asked about it because he, I think that there are five Alabama players and they talked to three of them. Okay. And Doug Williams asked about it and he said, we didn't hold a convention. It wasn't like we talked to all five. The ones we did talk to knew him very well.

the convention. Why didn't you hold a convention? You know, not only will your job be on the line, your job should be on the line if you make a decision like this. It is ridiculous. It is ridiculous.

And the idea that you wouldn't, in Doug Williams' words, hold a convention seems, the whole thing is just bonkers. You can walk down the fucking hallway. It's not as if you got to track these guys down. You know where they are all day. Just go talk to them.

Have a convention. You're not bringing in people from all over America. They're in your building. Just get out of your office and go chat with the guys who are on the football team that you run. Did they put any thought into this? It doesn't seem like they did. You're the only team that claimed him. According to reports.

And by the way, leaving aside the fact that this was a colossal. stupid idea. Guess who's not good this year? It's just none of it makes sense, man. Ruben fucking Foster. Every single element of it. It's not as not. No, I saw this.

I forget who said it, but it's like, so first of all, he's not even, I looked at the office on PFF this morning. He's not even a top 50 off the ball linebacker, okay? He's obviously a, at this point, a bad guy, okay? And I saw the point yesterday. I forget who made it.

I'm sorry. But it's like, if you're going to threaten your career over a guy, at least make sure he's an elite player, for God's sakes. Jug Williams is probably going to come under fire for picking up a bad off the ball linebacker. That hell are you doing, Redskins? And it's not as if, you know, this is a year later. And we've had all those stories about how he's been rehabilitated and, you know, how he was a different guy and everything else.

It was two days. It was two days. I mean, that stuff is all bullshit anyway. But even you can, if you're a. team, you can try to convince people that it's true. You can hide behind it at a certain distance after the event happens. But when it's two days later, oh my God, I just, there's no way they thought this through because, I mean, it seemed like they were shocked and kind of surprised by the blowback, which that just lets you know that they have no understanding of the current climate and what's going

on right now. The Jay Gruden press conference yesterday was just unbearable. It should be. They should be right-down with the course. I'm talking about just the awkwardness. I mean, like, it's in the, you know what the problem is trying to defend an indefensible position? It's impossible. So you just string, you just string words together and just hope that it makes sense people go away. But that's not going to happen this time, guys. He's been put on the commissioner exempt list.

You won't even play this year. Get, get this to see. I'm so, I'm not, I'm not happy about this. All right. Let's change gears here pretty dramatically. and let's get to this week's take shot. Why don't you start us off, bud? The Cleveland Browns, in some hypothetical situation in which all records were reset,

if the season started today, the Cleveland Browns will be a playoff team. They are playing. Now, listen, I'm not saying this is going to carry over to 2019 because there is some FU to Hugh Jackson. There's some we give a shit, as you discussed earlier. But Baker Mayfield, since Hugh Jackson's firing, since the Greg Williams Arabian, began is the second best quarterback in the NFL only to Drew Brice. They're just playing at a really high level.

And we're starting, I saw a quote from one of their players on Sunday, we're starting to see what this team can look like. Hugh Jackson is one of the worst coaches in modern football, maybe even including assistants or position coaches. I have no idea. I have no idea why he was a head coach. I have no idea why they brought him back, and I certainly have no idea why a team like Cincinnati Bengals

are looking into elevating him to head coach. Can we chat very quickly about the Baker Mayfield living in a glass house because he transferred to a different school and giving Hugh Jackson shit? What is that? Hugh Jackson is making $4.75 million this year from the Browns. The idea that he needs another job because he has the right to support his family, he's getting paid already. I don't,

what do you mean? Baker Mayfield went to a different school because he wasn't going to get a scholarship, which what's a scholarship worth? And we're talking about Hugh Jackson making $4.75 million. It's, I understand people should make what their market value is, and I'm not, you know,

faulting Hugh Jackson for making a lot of money. That's what NFL coaches get paid. But the idea that this is going to be his long-term job and he needed job security after losing this Browns gig is just ridiculous to me. Yeah, but back to the Browns. They've got a lot of talent, dude. This is the version I thought they could be before the season

if the coaching staff wasn't a disaster. When I was hyping them up and when I was so excited about them, I saw the talent and I said, if they have a decent coaching, I think they can be reasonable. And we're seeing that right now. Hey, I have a question. If Sashi Brown,

we all love John Dorsey here. We both enjoy talking to John Dorsey. when we visit Cleveland. If Sashi Brown had picked a better head coach, knowing what we know now about some of the talent around there, do we think Sashi could have survived? I think it would have been hard. I think the comparison is one,

a lot of people have made, but I think it's kind of a Sam Hinky situation where you're just going to lose so many games by virtue of that plan, no matter who the coach is. It's going to be hard to see your vision all the way through. Yeah. I just feel like they could have won a couple of more games

and then they could have gotten an extra year and then this year he could have kind of, kind of built the bridge to competition. I don't know. I feel like the way that Baker Mayfield has played over the last few weeks. And I know it's, he's not Carson Wentz quite yet or Deshawn Watson or whatever. It's still very early.

But I think we're going to be, it's not going to be too long before people start piping down a little bit about the, well, they passed on Carson Wentz and Deshawn Watson. Yeah, they did. And they got Denzo Ward and Baker Mayfield instead. I mean, this is the type of stuff where when you trade down and accrue talent, quarterbacks are probably going to be there every once a while. You just have to pick the right one.

Dude, do you know who's just back? Greg Williams. What do we think is going to happen with him? I don't know, but listen. He's going to get so many job offers. It's off season. It's not going to be Black Monday for Greg. I'll tell you that much.

But here's the deal, dude. He was also the guy that was like, we should draft Denzel Award. The only people who liked Denzel Award were like me and him, and I only liked him because of his athletic testing numbers. That's the only reason you like any draft prospects. People were laughing of it. By the way,

Fackerel in Green Bay. That was all my babies. You did love to. I remember that. FYI. I'm not saying I'd be the best GM of all time. I'm just saying I'd be like definitely a Hall of Fame GM. Craig,

can we please cut that and use it later in some way? Because I would just, I would just be all vertical jumpers. I would, we would go 3 and 13 every single year. Okay. But, but.

I would draft like six Hall of Famers. That's what would happen. How would you go three and 13 every year? Oh, you just have like two or three players a year. We would have holes everywhere. It's a completely unsustainable strategy. But I would just bless the world with many Hallfamers who can jump. I don't know, man.

The Texans seem to be doing just fine with like three NFL players and their offense and the guys they have on defense. Yeah, I don't care about that. I care about elite players, which I would draft. And then we would go three and 13. All right. we're going to stay in the end of the AFC North for mine. And this is very take shoppy because I definitely don't believe it,

but I'm starting to think we might get there. Just because of the conversation we had last week about more and more teams making aggressive plays for quarterbacks, just the level of patience kind of wearing thin. I think the Bengals might be one of those teams. Is that crazy? No, it's not. Well, I mean, here's the thing.

Here's the thing. What if this season has changed our notion of quarterbacking a little bit. And maybe the Bengals wouldn't be on the forefront of this. But if you've got an Andy Dalton or anybody who can't put up are you, do you live in a haunted house?

What was that? This chair is very squeaky in our office. Okay. If you have a quarterback who cannot put up unbelievably efficient numbers, you need to be searching for a new quarterback. That's how I feel too.

If you have an adult would be okay. But what I'm saying is like, you know, the report a couple weeks ago that Miami was looking at quarterbacks, right? It's because if you're looking at the NFL right now and you've got Ryan Tannahill, that shit flies in 2012 or 2013. It does not fly. Ryan Tannahill does not fly in 2019. No,

and I think that Dalton might be the same way. I've always thought that Dalton was a really good litmus test. I feel like he's the perfect quarterback to see how much infrastructure and talent matters. Because when he's surrounded by really good players, he can be really good. I mean, he was an MVP candidate in 2015, legitimate. But when he's not surrounded by really good players, as we saw with the offensive line last year, he's lost a lot of weapons late this season, then his play starts to dip a lot. And that seems like it was kind of true on its face, but that's very telling about what kind of quarterback can either lift the players around him or needs to be lifted by them. And I think that Dalton is the latter.

And so if you have a quarterback in that range and you're paying him, I think, 17 and 19 million over the next two years, is that money you want to be shot? out. Or if the franchise does choose to fire Marvin Lewis and they bring in someone new, would that guy like to go chase his new quarterback? Because after this season, Dalton has no more dead money left on his contract. They can move on from him for nothing. So, Marvin Lewis,

I don't know if he would get fired. Wouldn't he, like, be elevated in some way? He'd just be the owner now. Yeah, they just get him in the team. No, isn't it like,

I heard a theory, not, I don't know if this is reported or, is just a theory that maybe Marvin goes upstairs in front office job and then Hugh becomes a head coach. That's a disaster. But why else would you have like Hugh Jackson and Marvin Lewis

are very close. So I guess what I'm saying is that why would you I don't understand a scenario which Hugh Jackson gets hired unless it's Marvin Lewis hiring him. Marvin Lewis had already Why is Hugh Jackson getting hired? Why are we doing this? I don't know. I'm telling you I'm going off the report on Sunday that

said that they're considering him. And Who put that report out, Hugh Jackson? I don't think that Q Jackson, I mean, I don't know, but there's very trustworthy the reporters who are saying it. That's, oh my God. That's the most horrifying thing

I've ever heard in my entire life. Did you miss this story? No, I heard it, but then you just reminded me of it. I didn't think we were giving it any credence. If you're a Bengals fan, you should storm the gates. Giving Marvin some personnel control is fine. I feel like he's a good football mind. he's a lifer there.

If you want to do that, cool. But bringing in Hugh Jackson as the head coach has a response is nuts. It's fine if Marvin is the guy helping to pick players with Tobin and the rest of the front office and whatever. But the owner cannot let Marvin pick one of his buddies to be the coach when that buddy is Hugh Jackson. Jason Lock and Four reported that some people within the Bengals organization thought that Terrell Austin was being groomed position, but then they fired him. That seems like a... The Bengals are going great, man. It's going so well over there.

Seems like a tough look for the coach-in-waiting plan to just fire the guy instead. All right, before we move on, let's take a quick break. Whether you're an expert or rookie, you should be betting at my bookie this football season. If you like to bet a little and win a lot, you can create a big parlay. Pick three teams to win. And if you hit all three, you could turn $100 into $600. Bet on college basketball and football, NBA, NHL, custom props, even e-sports. You can really trust my bookie.

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Log on to MyBooky right now and use promo code Ringer NFL to get a 50% deposit bonus. That's promo code Ringer NFL. You play, you win, you get paid. Now back to the show. All right, let's get to the three biggest games of the week. Let us start with Chargers and Steelers, which is a fantastic game and what I'm very much looking forward to. Steelers have had an interesting couple weeks.

I mean, obviously, they have almost 500 yards of total offense last week. They're throwing the ball all over the place. Can't score. Turnovers have been a problem for them the last couple of weeks. I still feel like they're extremely dangerous. I also feel, though, that the Chargers defense is really starting to come and do its own. I mean, when you just drop Joey Bosa back into your defense two thirds of the way through the season and you already have a top 12 past defense, I believe they're sixth in past defense TVA way right now, which isn't surprising.

When you consider the talent on that team and just how complete their secondary is, they've managed to avoid serious injuries to big name guys for the most part outside of Bosa. You know, Casey Hayward had a little bit of a rough patch at the start of the season. He's been playing well again. Desmond King's been awesome. We already talked about Derwin. I mean, this group is ready to make a run and watching them go up against the Steelers' offense that outside of that Jags game has moved the ball at will over the past month or so is going to be really enjoyable. Like Tomlin said this, and I'm surprised by it, you know, there's only two teams that average more than seven yards on first down. Do you know who they are? The Rams and Chiefs?

The Rams and the Chargers. Interesting. I mean, that's not surprising. The Chargers offense has been right up there with Kansas City and the Rams in terms of efficiency numbers. every advanced metric. They've been excellent. So you start to look. I mean, I know this is a crazy thing to say, but I mean, if the Chargers defense gets to be a top, top defense, then they're very, very scary in the playoffs.

They're in the top 10 right now. No, I know, but I'm just saying if Bosa, the game last week was just very strange. And as we discussed, the Joey Bosa versus Andre Smith matchup looked like Andre Smith just forgot to play football briefly. And that might just be a Cardinals thing. But if they can play really good teams, and Joey Bosa can be Joey Bosa, then they have a real chance of going on the road

and being very scary, especially against a team like the Chiefs, which has a, what's called suspect defense. I'm significantly more intrigued with the AFC playoffs than I was three weeks ago. Yeah, I am too.

I feel like the Steelers are right there as well. Happening with Boven Gordon right now. Unless the Steelers have to go on the road. Yeah, that seems like a... What's going on? on with that. It's, it's been like this

for a couple years, man. I mean, they laid a couple eggs on the road every single year. Them coming back with that Jags game following the Panthers

blowout was the most Steelers thing ever. It was just so predictable. It's like, yep, that sounds right. Do we think that the Chargers

offense is going to be able to sustain pretty much what they've been doing without Melvin Gordon? Yeah, that's the question. I have a question. What was that play call to get Melvin Gordon hurt?

I was talking about this with a couple of guys. including a couple players. And they were talking about how in their minds, if you're playing, you're playing. You're just a part of the game plan. If you're in the game, then teams shouldn't be worried about it.

Yeah, but you don't need to run a reverse when your quarterback can't throw in a completion. I tend to agree with that. But I'm just saying that I heard a couple people say differently this week. And I kind of understand the other side of it too. Well, you're talking to Ken Wisenhunt? No, I was not talking to Ken Wisenhunt. I also feel like Austin Echler is pretty darn good.

And it's not as it. I agree. So the big thing. with Gordon is that he's been able to have these chunk plays. He's been an explosive play waiting to happen all season. The amount of 25, 30, 50-yard runs and catches he's had is just baffling. And Echlor hasn't been doing that all year, but he's still averaging more than five and a half yards to carry. He's still, I believe, second in receiving DVOA among running backs. He's not just this change-of-pace guy that they bring in to catch passes when Gordon goes out. Like Gordon, he does both.

He can run between the tackle. So not having him to be able to. able to spell Gordon and not having both of them hurts you. But I also feel like you can drop him in and he can do a lot of the same stuff, even if it's not the same big playability necessarily. And it's more just, you know, six-yard gashes here and there. Yeah. I agree. I think that Austin Neckler, I think they need Melvin Gordon back, certainly.

But I think that they have a little more depth than maybe I gave them credit for the beginning of the season. Yeah. I mean, I think that on the skill position players, they absolutely do with both of those guys. And then I think they're receiving core. I mean, you saw what they could be last week. I mean, obviously you have Keenan Allen who's doing Keenan Allen stuff that toe tap catchy had on the sideline at the pylon was insane.

And Tyrol Williams is just beating guys downfield. And what Mike Williams is doing right now in the goal line and in the red zone, it's pretty nice, man. Giving Philip Rivers the guy that could just go up and get the ball and box people out is kind of unfair. I mean, he already has guys that get open. So the fact that now he has a guy who doesn't have to get open, that passing game is pretty darn good.

Yeah, I mean, you spent some time around the Chargers. They're just feeling it right now. Yeah, they feel really good. And last year, I felt like when they were coming on at the end of the season, they were kind of building some momentum just in terms of attitude. And they thought they were, could beat anybody. This year is even a little bit different. I want them, I want them to win the Super Bowl because I want to see where they have the parade.

I mean, I picked them to go to the Super Bowl, so I'm fine with that. I pick them to have their Super Bowl parade at a Panera parking lot. let's get to the Vikings and Patriots. The Vikings defense starting to come on. I mean, they had that terrible start of the season, punctuated by the disaster Thursday night game against the Rams in L.A. Hang on,

hang on. The disaster was losing to Josh Allen and the bills. That's fair. Let's not, let's not lose sight of the actual though point. I meant the defense. Josh Allen had a couple runs in that game and Kirk Cousins fumbled a couple times. The Rams threw the ball all over them.

So now you have a unit that we've seen. seen be excellent for the last few years, starting around into shape. They really gave Rogers a hard time last week. And with the way that the Patriots have played against good defenses this year, I wouldn't be surprised if New England struggles to move the ball. I really wouldn't. You know, it's funny. Bill Belichick called the Vikings one of the best teams they're going to play all year. And I know that Bill Belichick says it about everybody. But I feel like it was a little more genuine this year. I think that he thinks that they really have a lot of talent. I still think that we've discussed this before,

they're the closest thing to an NFC Chargers where if a couple of things get improved that they can make some noise in the playoffs, I'm extremely interested in both of these, because I would say that even if you put, and I do put the Patriots in the sort of Mount Rushmore of contenders in 2018, I think at this

point, they're a distant fourth. Yeah, I do too. I think this could be a kind of good Roershack test for what you see in them. If they struggle versus Minnesota, do you still feel that way as teams like the chiefs and the Rams just putting up points however they want and teams like the charges are lingering, all that stuff.

So it's going to be telling. The one thing I'll say, though, is that this Minnesota defense, excuse me, what they've done well is they've really shut down number one receivers. They're number one in DVOA against number one receivers. Obviously, that's a Xavier Rhodes thing. They struggle against tight ends and running backs. The Patriots

don't have any wide receivers. They throw the ball to Juliet out of it and Josh Gordon every once in a while. But James White is their number one receiver. And the Vikings have been abysmal covering running backs out of the backfield this season. So I would not be at all surprised to see the old James White 14 target game in this one. Yeah, I think that that's, you're probably right.

All right. Let's chat about one more. There really isn't a good third game, so we're going to do one that's mildly interesting. The Brown's at the Texans, two of the hottest teams in the league, which if I would have told you that a month ago, or when the Texans were 0.3, what would you have said? Well, okay, so I saw some parallels. between, and it's obviously not one to one at all, but I was thinking about this game.

I saw some parallels between both of these quarterback's rookie years because we saw Deshaun Watson for six games and it was magical. It was absolutely magical. And then he got hurt. With Baker Mayfield, we're only going to see him at his Baker Mayfieldiest for a small sample size because he was, you know, handcuffed by Hugh Jackson.

And so this is, in both of these cases, we're going to have to look at, as you with Watson, at sort of the best case scenario and extrapolate from there. And that's what I find interesting. We're seeing now what Deshawn Watson is, and it's extremely exciting. It's actually not the guy we saw for those six games last year, because that guy was the best quarterback I've ever seen. That's only a mild exaggeration.

But I think both these quarterbacks are firmly entrenched in the football, the future football, and I'm really excited to see how. they duel. Watson's been really good over the last few games. I mean, he had that stinker against Washington, but for the most part, I know the numbers haven't jumped out at you just because the yards aren't there. He's thrown for 200 yards a game in a lot of these, but the efficiency is just crazy. I mean, what he did against Denver, completing 70% of his passes, 2.13 and 2.13 and 2 scores, completing 79% of his passes for 210 and 2nd and 2 scores against Tennessee last week. He's really playing well, not to mention the five touchdown game

against Miami. And this is the version of Houston that could be really dangerous. You have the defense really kind of rising to the occasion and playing up their talent level. Watts playing well. Clowny and Merciless is healthy. Cream Jackson's been really good this season, which they needed him to be because their secondary is pretty questionable elsewhere.

And then you just have Watson doing stuff on the other side. He made so many plays on Monday night where he's just darting around people in the pocket. His ability to kind of jump cut in the pocket and research. set, I don't, I can't remember another quarterback that does it that well. And it negates pressure. And for this team, that's exactly what he needs to be. And seeing this version of him and how much it can kind of keep the Texans afloat.

Obviously, they've won eight games in a row and really make them an interesting team in the playoffs. It's, he's one of the only quarter. I'm not saying he's the best quarterback in the NFL, but he might be the only one that could do this for this Houston team, if that makes sense. I just want to say, I'm looking at Watson's stats. Last year, his touchdown percentage was 9.3%, which is just absurd. But Mahomes is actually going to do that for a full season.

Yeah, we're dealing with a different world now, man. Watson's touchdown percentage this year is 6%, 6%, which is still quite good, by the way. Yeah, it's not bad at all. He throws a lot of touchdown passes because this team does not run the ball very well. Yeah, and also, you know, they just, there's been problems there, Will Fuller and all that. I mean, there's a lot of things. Damaris Thomas played okay last week. Oh, I know.

He's catching touchdown pass. He's not Will Fuller, and they're going to struggle offensively just by virtue of not having that field stretching element. They already have at points over the last month or so, but Watson's playing so well that he's kind of been able to overshadow that. So let me ask you a question. They're eight and three.

They've won eight games in a row. Are you scared to see them if you're one of the top two AFC seats? Yes. Because of the concentration of talent. Are you more scared than the Chargers? No. No. in the draft, you'd rather play the Texans and the Chargers.

Yes. The Chargers are a better team. I mean, for as good as Watson's been over the last month, Philip Rivers has been a better quarterback. I'm not all that scared of the Texans. Having said that, having said that, I laughed off the idea the Chargers could compete when they were 0 and 3. I'm sorry, the Texans, excuse me.

When the Texans were 0 in 3, I, you know, statistically those teams don't recover from 0 in 3, and I called them dead in the water, and I was wrong. So I'm just going to, I guess, keep underestimated the Texans. I feel like the Texans have a monster game in them. Their ceiling is extremely high, and that's why I'd be afraid of them. But they also have a very low floor because they can't block anybody. So that's where I see from them. They could just bounce around and be completely different teams on any given week. But if they're the good version, then I think they're kind of

scary. Agree. All right. Let's get to Geeks Out and Sneaky Truth. My Geeks Out this week is about motion in the NFL and the use of motion in the NFL. Kegan Abdul, who does a really good job for next-gen stats at the NFL network posted this the other day. It's just a screenshot from the Carolina-Seattle game. In 2014, 12% of plays involved motion. 12. What do you think it is in 2018? I actually know the answer. So I'm just going to let you say it. It's 39%. That is unbelievable. For it to triple in a four-year period, you just don't see those types of changes. We've seen extremes in the NFL now compared to what it used to be. Think about how much the Rams use play action. It's actually about that 39%. But four years ago, five years ago,

it was around, I don't know, 21, 22. So this is even more drastic than a change like that. And my question is, why not? Why wouldn't you use it all the time? Why wouldn't you use it to manipulate defenses, to get linebackers flat-footed? I mean, think about how often the Rams use Jet Motion. I mean, it's, I think they run it the most in the league. They've either flipped the ball or handed it off something like 35 times this season. And that doesn't even count how many times they use it without giving that guy the ball, just for distraction. And to be able to, again, shift linebackers and really put a defense on its heels. And it just makes no sense to me that teams don't do this. The teams that aren't using motion to this degree, why

aren't you? Because you can run your same stuff. Your offense doesn't have to change. The Rams run outside zone with jet motion. It's the same old things that we've seen forever in football. It's just dressed up differently. It's a lack of creativity from these teams not willing to lean into it. And we've seen the results. Again, the chasm between the coaches that understand that you need to always be one step ahead and the coaches that say, I'm going to run my stuff has never have been wider. It's amazing to me. I went to a lot of arena football games when I was younger because Orlando had a really good arena football team. That's right. Yeah. They were, Jay, Jay Gruden was the quarterback. Yep. And the coach. He was the coach and the quarterback. It's

pretty impressive. It's, it's damn impressive. Anyway, it's kind of funny to me, like all of those things, we've talked about it so much, but like all the things that just got guys open in arena football, like all this motion stuff. Like, that's just what NFL teams do. And yeah. And it's kind of of funny because people say this about Madden as well. It's like all of these things always worked. We just didn't try them. And they worked to other levels. They worked in video games. It's like humans are human. And at any level, if it works there, it's going to work here. And that's the funny thing about the NFL now is that we're realizing that all of the things that worked everywhere else, guess what? They work on the humans in the NFL. Who would have thunk it? All right. What's

your sneaky truth? Um, Sean McDermott. has four wins. That's a fact. Now, even hearing it, I don't believe it. Now, let's,

that the bills have won four games. The bills have won as many games as the Green Bay Packers. Well, they go to the Green Bay Packers have a tie. They've won more games than the Giants, more games than the Jaguars. One as many games as the aforementioned Packers, lions.

The Falcons, the damn Falcons, I know they've been hurt by injuries, have as many wins of the Buffalo Bills. The bills have the second. can best defense in the NFL. I understand there's some talent there, all that, but there's not that much talent on defense.

At the very least, what Sean McDermott... I don't know, man. I like a lot of those players. I like a lot of them, too, but I think there's a hell... I think there's a lot more teams with better roster talent on defense than Buffalo. Okay, that's fair. Yeah. I think you're underrating it, but I'll concede

that. Okay. So, like, Trudevius White in those guys. Tredavius White is excellent, and I feel like there's safeties are really underrated. rated. Hyde has been excellent for them and Poirer's

been really solid the last two years. Their secondary overall has been just good. I mean, just flat out good for the last two seasons.

I just think that we've made... The pass rush too, man. I mean, Hughes has been awesome this year. We've made such fun of the bills

on this podcast and probably every podcast has made fun of them. I think that the idea that they've eked out four wins

is sneaky, impressive. Buffalo is not even close to being the worst team in the NFL. No. Wait,

Three weeks ago, we were doing the could they lose to Alabama thing. Which I always thought was nuts because the defense is good. Well, when people get, they would get, yes. People were barking at us on Twitter the other day about how we were saying that the bills have no roster talent, that the team is devoid of talent. The offense is devoid of talent. The offense is devoid of talent. The defense has plenty of talent on it.

It's got a lot of talent. And they're very fun to watch. But the offense is by far the least talented in the league. And we've just talked about how many times on the, show that that recipe isn't usually a good one. Josh Allen is throwing the ball. Did you know that that 57-yard reception that he threw on Sunday was the second longest pass on record in the NFL as far as air

travel, air yards traveled in the three years they've been tracking this? Yes, 64 yards, I think. What was that Mahomes throw in the preseason? I don't know. Feels like that one is up there. Yeah, that may not also count as far as. throws in next-gen stats because it's preseason. Anyway, the point is,

I think that the, I think this is, this is an impressive coaching job and, uh, kudos to the bills for getting four wins because they were a national joke. It's an impressive coaching job on, with the defense. Yeah. And I think that where's it go from here? What do they do to bolster the talent on offense?

What do they do with a play caller? How are they going to help Josh Allen? Is there any way they can turn this around talent wise in the next two seasons even. And I have serious doubts about that. And that's why it's hard for me just to go all in and say they've done a good job because they put themselves in this scenario. They started Nathan Peterman.

Yes. That's not good. They put themselves in this spot. So it's not as if they have no fault here. It's all their fault. So good for them for winning four games and having a good defense. But it's not as if this team was saddled with these offensive players. They built this offense.

They traded up for Josh Allen. several picks. They went and traded for Kelvin Benjamin for no reason. This is a team that has systematically gotten rid of the best offensive players on their team over the last five years rather than accruing some decent ones. I mean, to order to get Josh Allen, you trade Cordy Glenn. That's the stuff that happens. And that seems like a good idea because if you don't have a quarterback, you don't have anything. But if you drop your quarterback into a shark tank, then it's not a good thing either. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, the Nathan Peterman thing was a Bordels-esque bad idea. And, you know, we've talked about this in the past,

but the idea that we made so many Peterman jokes and we certainly made a lot, Tim Graham wrote a great column about this couple of weeks ago. It let Bill's management off the hook. Yeah, it really did. And I think that that was one of the great, and even though he's such an easy target, and certainly we both took advantage of that target. But I just think that you start looking at the bill's front office and the structure there. I mean, they, they had to have a better plan at quarterback this year, knowing that Josh Allen, you know, was going to take some time. And then he got banged up and, you know, disaster struck, basically.

A better plan at quarterback and a better plan to help their quarterback, neither of which they had. All right. Very quickly, Thursday night, Saints at Cowboys, this is a good one. I love it. All things considered, the Cowboys are kind of in the driver's seat in the NFC East. Their defense has been playing pretty well. but again, playing pretty well in the NFL right now

doesn't really matter if you're playing against the Saints. The Cowboys defense is fine. I've enjoyed watching them. Byron Jones is good. They've got some decent pass rushers. Maybe they'll able to do some stuff with Toronto Arm set out. But I have no faith in Dallas to stop the Saints team. And that says way more about the Saints than it does about the Cowboys defense.

I agree. I agree. I think the Saints will win this game by a comfortable margin. I do want to address something. We live in a black and white society where everything has to be. It has to be good or bad, right? That's it. It's night or day.

There's no gray areas. And I just want to say that if Amari Cooper is a good player, that doesn't mean he was worth a first round pick. Yeah. What I'm saying, I guess, is that we have this reactionary thing where every time he catches a touchdown, we say, oh, he wasn't, well, yeah, he wasn't worth the first round pick. Check this out. And I think there are two things can be.

true. Amari Cooper, I still don't think, is a top, top level receiver. He said he had 180 yards last week, but the week before he had 30 yards. I think he can help the Cowboys. He certainly has. If you look at some of the numbers about how he's opened up the offense. But I just am not, I think it can be true. Both things can be true. The Cowboys overpaid and he helps the Cowboys. Yeah, he was not worth a first round pick in terms of the market at that moment. Yeah. Whether or not in a vacuum, he's the type of player that deserves to be traded for a first round pick is a different conversation. He's the type of player who deserves to be drafted or deserves to be drafted in the first round and paid a rookie salary for four years.

When you start paying him with $13.9 million next year and then after that, I mean, good Lord, I've seen some of the projections and they're not pretty. and if you're paying a ton of money for him, then you shouldn't also have to give up a first-round pick. You're giving up too many resources. And yeah, I mean, I hope the Cowboys make the playoffs. That's interesting to me. Yeah. You know, I remember Chris Fowler saying this a couple years ago about it was Big Ten fans.

And he was like, Big Ten fans relentlessly talk about how much ESPN and Chris Fowler in Game Day hate the Big Ten. And he's like, do you know how much money we make if the Big Ten is good? Like, we would love. We would love that. And it's like, that's sort of how I feel about the Cowboys where it's like, everyone's those, you hate the Cowboys. It's like, do you know how many clicks a good Cowboys team gets? Yeah.

I mean, it drives the site. I don't care either way about any of this stuff, about the results. But I'm just saying, if there's an anti-Cowboy conspiracy, you're going to have to look a little harder because it really, helps the media industry when the Cowboys are good. I've heard some of the network metrics on this stuff. Yeah, I'm all set with the Cowboys being good. That works fine for me.

I'm not really on the same page with you in the Cooper thing. I feel like he's been excellent. And while I agree, I agree, he's opened up the offense. He's opened up the offense and a lot of good pieces have been written about this. But I'm just saying, let's hold off on the value judgment here for more than four games. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of recency bias here. That's true. But if he is this player for the next however many years.

He's been this player for one week. No, it's been a couple weeks. He's been excellent. As a route runner, he's really created space. I mean, he's given Dak what Dak did not have. And that's not saying much considering the talent they've had in receiving core all season. But I think he's been exceptional. And if he is this exceptional player and this is something that he can sustain,

If you think about where the wide receiver market is, I don't necessarily hate paying him $13.9 million a year. I mean, let's think about some of the other contracts that have been handed out. Like Alshan Jeffrey makes $13 million a year. Devante Adams makes $14.5. Devante Adams is very good. Sammy Watkins makes 16.

You know, Alan Robinson got paid 14 a year this offseason. The wide receiver contract is pretty robust. First of all, none of those players were traded for a, first round pick. That's true. But just in terms of the contract and what they'd be worth an average annual value, if he's in, if this is the guy he is and he gets lumped in with that tier of receiver, I don't necessarily hate it. But this may be a mirage, so I could absolutely be wrong. I'm saying we need a much larger sample size. And I also, I also think that Amari Cooper is a good player. Yeah, he's been good and good for the Cowboys. All right, that's all we got.

as always, we'll be back on Sunday. By the way, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if Alex Smith hadn't gotten injured. Because if you just look at the football outsider projections and stuff, that one game lead they had with a competent team would have been a little hard to relinquish. I also think that this is a bad match for them tonight. The Saints are a very good run defense. They have been all season. And if they just stick Latimore on Cooper, then who are they going to throw the ball to? So of all the teams in the NFC, this just seems like the worst matchup for Dallas.

So I'm not sure it's going to be a decent day for them, even if we do like what Amari Cooper's doing. All right. That's all we got. We'll be back on Sunday as we always are. Thank you guys so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Thanks, guys.