The Ringer NFL Show - The Young QBs Dominate, Brees and Big Ben’s Injuries, and Other Week 2 Reactions | The Ringer NFL Show

Episode Date: September 16, 2019

Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, and Kyler Murray shine in Week 2, and Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger leave with injuries (2:45). Then, we dive into our Stock Up and Stock Down of the week, before throwing our challenge flags and predicting tomorrow's headlines (25:00).  Hosts: Robert Mays, Kevin Clark Disclaimer: This podcast was recorded before the news about Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger's injuries was announced. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Ringgroundfel show is brought to you by CBS Sports HQ. If you follow the pod, you know we love analysis and information. We don't yell at each other. We don't throw out hot takes. We don't beat the same topics into the ground. That's how CBS Sports HQ does things too. It's a sports network that streams live 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and they're focused on bringing you the latest news, highlights, stats,

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on your Apple TV, Roku, or Fire TV. It couldn't be easier. So download the CBS Sports app and watch CBS Sports HQ today. To the Ringar NFL show, I'm Robert Mays, joined as always by Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing today? But not as always. We are in person. We are sitting in a hotel room in Atlantic City.

We are both here. We watched the games here. I flew this morning. So it's my schedule has been a little bit off. I'm very sleepy. But it was a good week, too. So we're going to get into it. We're doing a live show in Atlantic City.

We are doing a live podcast in Atlantic City tomorrow. At the sports book at the MGM Borgata. At the Borgata. If you are in the Northeast, if you were a Philadelphia or New York or a New Jersey resident, you should come tomorrow because I think it's going to be fun. Last time we had a live show, there was a guy who stopped me in the street

and said, this is the day before and said, hey, I'd love to come to your live show, but I have a work thing. And I said, quit your job. And I don't actually know what happened, but he ended up at the thing. I'm sure you remember. And he asked a question

and I congratulated him quitting his job. I don't think he actually quit his job. But my advice to you, if you are unable to attend due to work, is to quit your job. So I didn't understand the geography of Atlantic City before. Philly? Yeah.

Because again, I've never been. New York. I drove from Manhattan. It was about two hours. So you were in Manhattan. I've never been a resident of the Northeast before. I did a internship in Boston is like the longest time I've ever spent in this area of the world.

So I just assumed that I would fly into New York and drive, but I realized that Philly is much, much closer. I had no idea how far south Atlantic City is. But it's great. Yeah, it's a, it's a hoot and holler. We're having a great time. Yeah, we're looking forward to it. Again, if you can make it tomorrow, we promise you can just finish work and get here

on time. But before we do the live show, we are going to get into everything that happened in week two. And we're going to start with some interesting kind of quarterback developments over the last 12 hours or so, because I think that we saw the old guard of quarterbacks go a certain direction today and the new guard of quarterbacks kind of continue their rise. We're going to start with Drew Breeze and Ben Rathesberger, both of whom got injured today. The timetable for each of them is not totally clear.

Everything that Breeze seemed to say after the game indicated that he'd be out for a little while. Rathusberger was out the moment that his injury happened. So let me ask you this. Breeze is staying, yeah, staying overnight in Los Angeles to see a hand special. Very worrying. So, yes. I mean, it's every, like Adam Schaeffer tweeted that it seemed like it was a very serious thing.

So which of these is more concerning to you and which of these do you think has larger implications if it's a long-term injury? So the way we're kind of framing this correctly is there's a lot of good young quarterbacks and it seems like there's some injuries to smolder guys. Correct. Now, I tend to think that in week two of the NFL season, everything is fake. I keep saying this. The things we thought last week reversed themselves in one week. That's the interesting part is like, is week one real? Yeah, right.

There's like, it's hard to. It's not getting any more real. It hasn't gotten any more real. September is an extension of the preseason at this point. Okay. So what I'm saying is from narrative perspective, the only thing that matters to me is health. I don't care about what. I think I don't care if someone looks bad or whatever.

I just, I'm sorry. like unless they're they're unhealthy i think that they'll get to what they normally are by october whether that's good or bad okay that's just sort of how these things work i tend to agree so if true breeze is significantly injured or if ben rothusburg or if ben rothusberg is significantly injured that is a huge huge blow to those teams that goes us in the most obvious point on the planet um and so i think this breeze injury he's staying in los angeles as we said overnight that is really concerning now they have a plan teddy bridgewater is a good back of portoac going to gone to Miami. Thank God he didn't for his

sake and our sake and New Orleans sake and everybody else. For the sake of his body. There are many reasons that he shouldn't have gone there and congratulations for him for choosing wisely. But that's a decent, that's a decent situation, but it's not Drew Brice. It's not Drew Brieze in an extremely

competitive NFC. And it's not Drew Brie's coming off of a pretty uninspiring loss to the Los Angeles Rams. The Saints, that, I mean, the Falcons won tonight. I don't know what they look like. Panthers are in a weird spot. We might catch them in a little bit.

But what I'm saying is that they need to get back to the elite of the elite. They need to have Drew Brees for a lot more games than it seems to see that then this injury seems to suggest they'll have them for. So I agree with everything you said. I think that. By the way, Ben Rathesburg, if he's out, their Mason Rudolph is an even worse quarterback than then. So let's let's talk about the thing's first because I think that the breeze to Bridgewater step

is, I'm with you and everything you said. But if that step is going to be taken for, let's say, six weeks, right? Like, I'm speculating here. How do you kind of think about the NFC if it's going to be a month and a half for Breeze? Because I thought Carolina was going to be better than they are. I still think they can turn this around. Again, I think it's early. It was a Thursday night game.

We'll get to the Panthers. But if the Panthers are this bad, if the Fed, Falcons are kind of a middling team that's in the middle of what we saw the last two weeks. How are you kind of handicapping what's going on in the NFC right now? So there's a couple of things to unpack here. Number one, let's look at the schedule. Saints had the Seahawks next week in Seattle. That's tough.

Then they have Dallas. That's a Sunday night game. Then they had the Bucks, Jaguars, Bears. So that's three wins. Cardinals, four ones. So they can lose 13 to 12 to the Bears. I don't last second field goal and a terrible call.

Three to two. So I look at the Seahawks and the Cowboys the next two weeks, which if we're saying that this is even an average injury, Breeze will miss. That's a concern. If they drop two games in the short term,

that's a concern. And they start one and three. That is where you start to say, okay, we need Breeze back as soon as we can. Then that four game stretch is pretty good. I don't know when Breeze would return within that window. So the Seahawks Cowboys,

the fact that, that it's those two teams is actually really interesting because those are the two teams I kind of wanted to mention because Dallas looks awesome. I mean, they just feel, they seem to be really locked in. Obviously, they play the Giants and the Redskins. That's a caveat you have to throw out there every single time

we're talking about, you know, teams looking good early in the season. But Dallas seems like they are completely in tune with the plan they want to have. They have a really good roster. I think they're a really good team. I understand that the Steelers, who we'll talk about in a second here, we're playing without Rathsburger today. But today is one of those games where I feel stupid about some of the stuff I said about the Seahawks before the season started because there were only so many great quarterbacks

in the NFL and Russell Wilson is one of those quarterbacks. And there are times where I'm so frustrated about how they comport themselves and just their game plan in general. But then there are moments where he has to be this. and he's capable of being that. So as I'm kind of thinking about the NFC, the Rams are still good. You know, they didn't look great against the Panthers in week one.

Breeze is hurt today. But, you know, there are players on their defense that are playing better, everything else. They're well-coached. They have a good roster. They're a very, like, dangerous team. So the Rams are in that conversation. I still think the Eagles are in that conversation.

Tonight was a weird game. Yeah, yeah, yes. But after that, it's like, where are we going? Like is it, the Saints without Breeze, Carolina's not as good as I thought they'd be, the Cowboys seem to be excellent,

Green Bay's defense is like terrifying. I mean, it just seems like there's more uncertainty. Again, it's two games, but there's more uncertainty at the top of that conference than I thought there would be two games into the year.

Yeah, again, I just can't, is, are the Falcons actually better than Philly? I don't know. I think the answer is no. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. No, Alshan Jeffrey, no to Sean Jackson. I'm having a real hard time drawing conclusions for many of this stuff. And you get into the Steelers now, they're 0-2.

And it was funny, Michael Lopez tweeted this out. And only 11% of teams who start 0-2 and make the playoffs. But however, as he points out, that's not all that much different from just losing two games in a row in any week. in any two weeks. And they had a stretch last year where they were kind of on the skid and they kind of came back hot later in the year. Yeah, they didn't make it. But they were in the conversation. And you start getting into these O and two teams and all these staffs and stuff.

Well, a lot of teams to start O and two are just straight up bad. Yeah. And that's why they don't make the playoffs. It's really hard to say, well, what percentage of teams with a ton of talent go O and two and then make the playoffs? I mean, there's, it's such a, it's a strange trend to bring up all the time. And that's why I love this Michael Lopez context, that basically O and 2 is no worse than losing in, you know, weeks 5 and 6. And so I think I'm not all that worried about the Steelers unless, again, if Ben Rothesberger is injured, Mason Rudolph is not the guy to peel them back from this, this O2 hole. So I think the Steelers are a really good kind of entry point into this conversation because part of the problem with them being O&2 is the fact that the Ravens have looked so good for their first two games.

You know, they didn't blow out the Cardinals today. but Lamar looked excellent again. Niners and Bengals next two weeks, then Lamar. So before the season, and when I was kind of doing my rankings, I feel like there are times where certain franchises, I just give the benefit the doubt and I put higher than it, maybe I should just based on history. Did we just give the Steelers the benefit of the doubt coming into the season?

Or should we have given more credence to the lack of Antonio Brown, the youth on defense, the uncertainty on defense, all of those things? I mean, the Ben Rothesberger question aside, even with a decent Ben Raffersberger, is this an elite team going forward? Well, first of all, I don't think we're going to see a average Ben Rostberger this year. I actually, I don't know the answer to that. And that's the biggest problem. Because if he's got an elbow injury, that's significant, especially this time of year. So I don't, I think that might be an unknowable situation.

I don't know. is Juju the guy who can carry that entire load offensively? We may never know. The answer has been no so far. Right. And now we may not get to see that offense click at all. So I defer to teams that have done it before and probably overrate them because my general philosophy is that smart teams beat dumb teams over time.

And if you just keep saying the team that has figured this out before or figured out again, you're usually right. I thought that, you know, I think that there was a case to be made. You know, they didn't have Levy on Bell last year and they were still pretty good offensively, you know, Ben Rutherford's where led the NFL and passing guards. So a commentary on running backs versus like game-changing receivers. Sure, sure, sure. But I'm saying that there's just, there were cases to be made that the Steelers could be a division winner this year.

I think that that's not necessarily a commentary. The fact that we're repositioning this is not a commentary on the Browns who had a week, week one. it's a commentary on the Baltimore Ravens who I had as the Wildcard team but if we're redoing it right now I would have significantly differently on the pecking order. This shift that's kind of

you know, again it's week two it's early. We have to couch everything with that right now. But Bree's getting hurt, Rathisport getting hurt, and the way that Lamar, Dak, even Kyler Murray played today.

I mean, Mahomes is like, it's not even worth mentioning. I mean, it's just, he's just so goddamn good. It's like, it's ridiculous. You've written so much about this, and I think that you've done a very good job of kind of understanding the reasons that these quarterbacks have endured in a way that other classes and other kind of eras of quarterbacks have not.

Is it too early to say that a changing of the guard and a transition is happening? Or do you feel like that's, we're getting to that point? Yeah, I kind of said this over the summer. I knew there would be this weird tension because you have these just undeniable. young quarterbacks, guys like Patrick Mahomes who were taking, it was funny to me, the Drew Bree's MVP conversation last year was so interesting to me because I think that the media

would have loved to give Drew Breeze his first MVP. And he was deserving. And he was on a historic run. In a different universe. Yes. But if it hadn't gone off the rails in the last four weeks, and they had been 15 and one,

I absolutely think he could have done it even with Mahomes throwing 50 touchdowns. I really do. I don't know. So anyway. I wouldn't have agreed with it, but I could have understood why somebody would have been hammering that. Yeah, but Mahomes took that MVP and ran away with it. And I think that's, that was the important tension there.

And I think you, you get into this, you know, last year, there were three or four playoff games that set the record or came close to it between a different age difference and quarter, quarterbacks who were starting. Philip Rivers against Lamar Jackson, Tom Brady, against Patrick Mahomes. Tom Brady against Jared Gough Jared Gough, Jared Gough against Drew Brees. Those all came really close to setting records or did set the record for difference in quarterbacks. That's going to keep happening. We have this incredible generation of older quarterbacks

and incredible generation of younger quarterbacks. And I don't really think either of them are going away to answer your question. I think it's way too early to say these guys are done. Way too early. I mean, like, think about how many times we've just buried Tom Brady. Yeah, that's, that week four loss to Kansas City like three years ago on that Monday night

is always the game I think of when we're talking about even the first month of the season and making kind of declarative statements about what's going to happen. It's Castle in the Sand. The first two weeks are fake. The only thing that matters is health. Do you think that what's happening with these

younger quarterbacks is indicative of what's going to happen just with the position in the future based on structure and the way the position is taught and everything else? We've discussed this in the past. The amount of passing seven on seven, everything else.

I had a conversation with somebody recently that I thought was really interesting. This person knows quarterbacks very well. He acknowledged that just kind of 10,000 hours, Malcolm Gladwell-type deal about how much people throw. But he also said that he feels like the way that the position has been privatized is making players like Patrick Mahomes and Carson Wentz a little bit harder to build. So I feel like, I don't know if that's necessarily true. What do you mean by that? There's a barrier for entry that's a little higher? Nah, it's all of the, because the position is taught so rigidly.

Yeah. That guys move in a certain kind of uniform way that Mahomes and Wentz and people like that do not. And like, that's something to consider it like over the next 10 years. We won't know that. Yeah. But I still feel like I'm just curious about whether or not just the kind of each, ecosystem of the sport and the position is going to lend to guys coming in their first second year and being able to do what Mahomes, Kyler, even Lamar Jackson are doing right now. I think they will.

I think that what we're seeing, and this is something I've written about a million times, but what we're seeing from the younger quarterbacks is immediate success because colleges are building great schemes around players and the NFL teams who figured out how to build those teams around them at the NFL level. NFL eyes them, right? And that wasn't happening for about a decade. So they were getting these players who were essentially playing a different sport at the lower level, getting up here.

More recent than that. It's in the last like five or six years. No, no, I'm saying there was a 10-year window where there was a generation basically lost. Oh, yes. And I would say, you know,

you look at someone like Marcus Mario, who what if they did a better job of building around him when he first came in? Obviously, he's had injury problems. You know, he's not Tom Brady back there. But if you give him someone other, Mike Markey, who's literally making fun of the University of Oregon's offense in an article for the ringer.com, maybe you have a better chance. And so Andy Reid figured this out.

I mean, I will never forget. I've sat down with Andy Reid once in my life. It was in 2013. And he said the college game was always five years ahead of the NFL game. And I wrote that in the column after the Eagles Patriot Super Bowl, where, that was a big 12 game. That was a big 12 game. And he said it five years earlier.

He said in five years, wait for it. And then we're going to get it. And we got it. Andy Reid, smart guy. Anyway, the point of all of this is to say, this is going to keep happening because colleges are exploding on offense. The NFL has changed so much. Ideas trickle up instead of down that they're going to be able to replicate that kind of stuff. The rules are not going back.

That horse is out of the barn. The rules are what they are. It's only going to get more in favor of the quarterback and the wide receiver. This whole thing is it's more points, not less. Younger quarterbacks will always do well. I was watching college football. It was kind of a quarter of my eye yesterday while I was like sitting around. I was watching Kansas State, Mississippi State.

And I was watching those offenses and I was just like, God, this is just so well done. And it's, I really do pick that up. Like most of the time I watch college now. There's so many smart coaches that it's worth the idea. is trickling up and we have seen that. Who'd you say is the first example of that kind of let's mold our NFL offense around

what he did in college? We say it's RG3 in 2012. Is that the first time you remember it? So RG3, I remember doing a story the day after where I got the Baylor offensive coordinator on the phone. He basically said they were running our playbook. There was literally no difference. That's the first example I can remember. I would also say he doesn't get enough credit for it.

Mike Schu'll do that with Cam, a lot. Yeah. That was the year before. And I think, I'm not sure why he didn't get the credit for it, but he ran some, some really familiar concepts with Cam. That's a good one. I forgot. I would say those two were the first, and then it really kind of went away for a little bit. And maybe, I think RG3, obviously Cam had a huge success with it, but I would say maybe RG3 getting hurt, maybe changed a little bit because there was maybe less protection for him or whatever it was. But there was like two or three years there where you weren't hearing

as many stories about just teams importing college playbooks. It was a weird stretch just like in the league because that was like when the read option was taking over. And you had that kind of Kaepernick RG3, Russell Wilson run. So it's, yeah, it's a good point. And like that because that 2011 quarterback class was a little bit different. You had 10 and everything else. But yeah, that was 2012 with Ponder. Yeah, that's right.

All right. Christian Ponder. So let's talk about one more quarterback. Chris Ponder just played in the wrong offense. Let's talk about one more quarterback before we move on to stock up and stock down. And that is the aging quarterback that seems to have no problems whatsoever. and that is Tom Brady. Again, I know they're playing the dolphins,

but they're rolling. Antonio Brown seemed like just kind of a perfect fit in what they wanted to do. Not a ton of volume, but I always thought his football impact would be much more considerable than his fantasy impact. And I think that's kind of what we saw today.

Yeah. The dolphins continue. Can the dolphins tank a little better? I mean, it was, Like a little better. Like, let's know who's on the team. I don't want to.

Are they watching film? I mean, it was like they were, there was an extremely famous wide receiver who just joined the team. And they did, they seem to just not be interested in covering him. Do you think they, this is a bigger conversation for later on. Do you think they've taken this too far?

It's commitment to a bit. I, I like the idea of tanking. I'm in on the idea of tanking. Let's be a little better. All right. So how do you be a little better? Well, you cover, you cover guys.

You cover guys. You're going to start with, you're going to start with covering. You're going to start with covering. I mean, it's really bad. It's fucking brutal, man. I mean, I don't know. And I can't, listen.

Could you imagine being a fan of that football team? I mean, like, I have never had to deal with this before. I know some. But listen, this is, I don't want to sort of link back to last week. I don't want to say it's time to get off the ride because it's not. They need to see this through. It's a scary ride though. Come on.

All right. So before we get to stock up and stock down, let's kind of address the Antonio Brown situation as it currently exists. Obviously, he was active. Something we've known since the end of the week probably. Yeah. So that's not a surprise. The fact that he didn't go in the commissioner's exemplist, everything else, this is something that we probably should have anticipated. He did not talk to the.

media after the game. He, the NFL has stated that it's going to fast track its investigation. So we've learned a little bit more. Yeah. Since we recorded on Thursday, but not a ton more. Yeah.

Ian Rappaport reporting on Sunday that, obviously he was not put on the commission exempt list last week, but they have not ruled out doing it later this week. Is that surprising to you? Seems like if they were going to do it. They would have done it. Well, I mean,

so the new thing is that Britney Taylor will be meeting with, the NFL's investigators. So there will be new information. I think that there will probably be, this will be a week where there is some news either way because they, again, they have said that they want investigation to move quickly.

The accuser will meet with the NFL on Monday. So the report that they haven't ruled out the commissioner example sort of dovetails timing-wise with everything else potentially. Will it talk about this more as we learn more over the next week or so? Before we move on, let's take a quick break.

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slash ringer NFL. R-N-G-R-N-FL. ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NFL. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Let's get to stock up and stock down. Stock up, first of all, I just want to talk about the Packers defense. Again, for the second straight week, they played excellent. A Vikings' offense that really ran all over the Falcons last week, couldn't get much going.

I mean, Green Bay's defense looks really, really good right now. I just want to point out that when I'm looking at my notes here, I made a bunch of bears notes because I was going to make fun of you for a while and then you don't want to talk about it because you didn't watch enough of the game. But I just want you to know I have some bears notes. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll discuss that later on.

Yeah, my travel schedule, unfortunately, did not allow me to watch as much as I wanted to. But I did watch the end. Unfortunately. Okay. Let's talk about the Packers first. Okay, the Packers defense. A couple of things here. So this is a tweet from Mark.

he's ever saw. Packer's defense has held opposing quarterbacks, Trebiskin cousins, to 51% completions and a 58 passer rating through two weeks. Pretty good. Pretty good. We talked a lot last week about schematically some of the stuff that they had done. You know, with Zadari Smith, everything else. To me, it's a combination of the schematic stuff they've been able to do and individual players. Yep. The Smith.

It's not even the Smiths to me. It was the way Kenny Clark played today. Kenny Clark. I mean, he was just everywhere. And he's, I mean, he was a good player for the last two seasons. Kenny Clark is a legitimate star. Yeah. But for them to keep getting these kind of incremental improvements from their in-house players.

And, you know, Donald Savage had a mixed day today, things like that. He'll be fine. I just think that the talent is such combined with how well they're coached, that they're going to be a problem for every single offense they play this year. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that they are... Even Blake Martinez was great today. I mean, there were so many guys that were all over the place.

Yeah, I'm sorry. And I think that it doesn't take a lot for the Packers to be Super Bowl contenders. And this goes back to something we've talked about, which is when you have a great quarterback, you only need a couple of breaks. Whereas if you have a bad quarterback, you need every single break. You know the Blake Bortle sort of breaks, which was every single break. which was every single break that year. Now, I think that the offense can get better.

And I think that also there's some worrying things with the defense. For instance, I saw an interesting note via Ryan Wood that essentially, so they gave up a 75-yard run to Dalvin Cook, 61-yard catch to BB 45-day, 45-touch, 45-yard touchdown of Diggs, and a 3-yard catch. The other 55 plays, 210-yard. which is a 3.8 average per play. Okay.

So they either just completely destroy the play or they have a leak at the back. I think that's sort of interesting to me. I'd rather be that sort of defense in week two. I agree with that. I agree with that. I also think that if you're just going to play sort of home run ball,

that, you know, as season goes long, Aaron Rogers, are going to get you some home rounds. So that's, when you talk about the offense, kind of finding, you know, their footings. I think that's the best part about the way they've started the season because they're finding their footing and their two and oh. Their offense is going to be better. And it's not like Rogers didn't have a prolific day, but he still made plays today. Let's talk about Kirk Cousins.

All right. What do you want to talk about with Kirk Cousins? Well, saw this from Jim Trotter. Within the 10-yard line, he's dead last couple of years in everything, in everything. completes 44% of his passes, 76 rating inside the 10-yard line. Some of his passes. So on Friday,

I texted a, I meant to text Jason Gay of the Sports Reporters, former colleague with mine. And I accidentally texted. That's the first thing you mentioned, the Sports Reporters. I accidentally texted Jason Gallagher.

Okay. And then I exit out that. Which is funny, because you like Jason Guy and you hate Jason Gallagher. But so then I open up the text again and I do it again and I just sent it again to Jason

Gallagher, okay? And I'm, I kind of thought, I'm actually not. Usually I'm pretty good at the stuff but I just did it twice in a row and I look like a psycho because now it just looks like I've just, this huge block of text now has been delivered twice Jason Gallagher. And when I

look at some of these cousins throws, I'm just you did it again. It's like locking your keys in your car, sending the same wrong text to the same person twice and at 15 second span. Can we get a little bit of improvement

Kirk Cousins in the handsome? It's not to the same degree, but it kind of reminds me of the James Winston thing in a way, where it's sometimes a quarterback is just, he is who he is. And there's just, there's no way

to kind of change his stripes when you're five, six years into your career. Cousins puts the ball on the ground a lot. There are some just mind-boggling throws and he's going to do some stuff that every once in a while, you're like, wow, that was brilliant. And it, that's kind of,

it seems like that's the mix we're going to get with Kirk Cousins. It's not going to change. As a matter of putting in the right situations. I still think Kirk Cousins is good. I think so too. I'm generally pro Cousins, but on a day like today,

I just, can we just take a step forward? All right. Let's get to our next stock up. The Buffalo Bills might be okay. They looked really good today. Might be okay. 2 and I saw all their fans at Sycoccus as I was as I was going to pick up my rental car. A few things about the bills I love today.

One, they looked good. Two, did you see a reporter asked Josh out after the game? They said, you had a chance to be in New York and he said, I am in New York, which is just, it's a great move. It's just a great response. Really like it. I need to share this really quickly. Josh Allen has surpassed 200 yards and passing in seven consecutive games.

The longest streak since Jim Kelly in 1992. That's so depressing. 200 yards is not that many yards. It's not that many yards. In an NFL game, you should have 200 yards passing. I also think that there's probably not a lot of quarterbacks who even started seven consecutive games for the bill. I kind of think there's just been so many stops and starts that

and then when they do, it's your, it's your Trent Edwards of the world. If we're ranking quarterback purgatory franchises, post Jim Kelly, the Browns are number one, right? I mean, they have to,

they have a jersey. I'm sorry, yeah, the Browns, the Browns, yes. So the Browns are one. I would argue that my team is in the conversation. But I would say it's kind of strange because post-Gim Kelly, like the Browns were still,

then they became the race. Ravens. The whole, that, that's weird. No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. That was my trapeation. Yeah. Since like 19, like, since 2000.

Your franchise is still there. I like the Browns. Oh, trust me. I'm very aware of that. I would say, would you rather have Josh out and Mitch Chubisky. I don't want to get to do it. I'm not saying another word on this podcast. I'm not saying another word on this podcast.

So you answer that question. I haven't thought enough about it. Come on. I'm not going to answer that right now. I'd have to consider it. The answer. I, I'd have to think about it is enough of an answer. I think.

Okay. It's, I, I'm really not willing to get into the Bears right now. I need like two or three days before we like emotionally engaged with what just happened. You have to give a deep dive into how the Bears won that game on later in the week. That's fine. We can talk about that on Thursday. That's fine with me. We're at the last show.

Since that's actually the show we're going to be doing. I will rewatch it tomorrow. We're actually doing a later show. What do we think about the Buffalo Bills? Because I think the coming into the season, both of us thought that they had a very well thought a plan, they were abiding by that plan, and we had faith in them moving forward. Do you think they're a little bit further along than you gave them credit for it coming into the year?

Do you think that's a little bit? I was super high on the Buffalo bills coming into the year. I really liked the bills. I just thought that it got into... I just mean, like, can they win 10 games? Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, it got into, it goes back to what I said 10 minutes ago about how when you have a quarterback like Josh Allen, who is not a, you know, a...

objectively great quarterback. You need a lot of breaks, a lot of talent around him. You need everything to go right, including, you know, getting some lucky breaks and also having him

maximizes talent. So I think, yes, I think he can, he can get them, I think it's probably a nine-win team this year, is my guess. But then I think,

I want to make sure that I did say, I'm pretty sure I said that they would be in the hunt, you know, one of these almost like what the Titans were last year, where it's like, it's week 16 and they've got a mathematical chance to make the playoffs kind of thing. That's where I saw them this year. In terms of win-loss record, I agree with that.

But I feel like the discussion we've had about them is much more optimistic than discussions we've had about the Titans in the past, just because of the way they've built this team. I loved everything they did along the offensive line in the off season. And to watch that kind of come to fruition over the first two, weeks. You know, Feliciano is playing well. Naseki is playing well. And they've really kind of set up Mitch Morse to succeed. And to do that on the relative cheap, they paid Morse obviously. But Feliciano and Nosecchi, all those guys, they didn't pay much for it. And for them to kind of build this team in a responsible way through free agency while trying to bring along their in-house

players, I just have been really impressed. I think they have one of the best plans, team building wise in the NFL. And so far, it's coming together quicker than I thought it might. Yeah. And that's why I really liked, you know, Cole Beasley as an option. He had a huge play. Even John Brown. I mean,

both of those guys. I liked what they were doing. The numbers are funny money with both of those. Those are cheap contracts. Yeah. I liked what both of them were doing. You know, Josh Allen, I actually in a strange way, was, was fairly impressed today with some of his shorter passes.

and the accuracy there. I saw him as sort of a home run hitter in the past, and I don't think that that's, I think he has a lot of capability for improvement on some of the more sort of routine throws. Absolutely. But I do think that games like today are encouraging when it comes to Josh Allen.

I think this is the type of game you want to see from him. He's functional, he's making good decisions, he's more accurate than he thought he would be. it's this is I mean again it's against the giants we always have to do that two weeks into the season but the giants are just awful they're a nightmare I mean they they are an absolute nightmare oh my god I think the cowboys are good but it's kind of hard to discern that right now Eli Manning just get him get him out of there so get it has to happen soon right yeah don't they have the bucks next week well there you go that might be the time to do it all right one more stock up

I mean, this is kind of a cursory kind of obligatory mention here. Oh, yeah. Might as well throw. Well, they have the Giants and Patriots. So they're going to beat the Patriots with Eli. You've got to keep them for that. It's almost like how some teams put their new quarterback in after the buy. With the Giants, you have to keep them in for the Patriots game.

They have the Cardinals after that. Maybe that's Eli's last hurrah. Just the Patriots Cardinals? It's Sunday night. No, no, Giants Patriots. It's Sunday night. on my birthday but she just doesn't have much to do with it.

Did I tell you, did I tell you that a couple months ago, I saw Yline Manning the airport and the lead singer of Pantera took a photo with him and Eli didn't know who was. Phil Anzamo? Yeah.

That's bizarre. Yeah. And then people were watching because half the people, not half the people, like 70% of people were like, look at Elon Manning and then like five people were like,

hey, it's Philonsalmo. I would recognize. Eli did not. I love, I like Pantera. I would not recognize Philanzamo. I only knew it. Someone said it in the and news as it was happening.

What a weird airport interaction. Yeah. Someone recognized Phil Anzano in an airport and told you it was Phil Anzamo talking to Eli Manning. Someone was talking about it loudly and the Hudson News. They were like, because I saw Eli take the photo. That is the most bizarre airport moment I could ever heard about. Eli was doing photos in like the, the, I don't even remember, the hallway, basically.

A bunch of people were coming up to them. And then one of them was someone in the Hudson News like that. is the lead singer of Pantera. And I see that's, this is all very strange. And then, yeah, Eli,

it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a, uh, just taking photos with the folks. That's really the only argument for why he's a starting quarterback.

Yeah, I've talked about this before. Yeah, I think he's, he's great in the building. All right. It seems like every single week, uh,

we could probably use the chief's offense to stock up. We might as well do it now. I mean, it, they're just ridiculous. I don't know what else there is to say at this point. He threw four touchdowns. All of them over 20 yards in the air.

Okay? Since they've been tracking that, one person has done that in a game. And it's Jared Goff. In a game. He did it in a quarter. Yeah. It's,

I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. I don't think the chargers are, excuse me, I don't think the Raiders are great on defense, but I do think that when you do that to an NFL team and when you make it look as easy as they tend to do, then you don't have to throw in any sort of qualifying.

about who you're playing. All right. Let's get to stock down. Do you want to talk about this in that game? Yeah, what the hell was that game? I don't, what do you, I mean, I don't think any differently

about the Eagles necessarily. They didn't have the Sean. They didn't have Al Sean Jeffrey. I'm with you. Everybody, well, no, I, I'm starting to worry that, that Carson Wentz is just going to get the crap knocked out of them.

I mean, that's not even a, that's not necessarily a fault or the Philadelphia Eagles, but this is a guy who looked really, really banged up the entire game. He was nursing his ribs at the beginning. They needed to come out for Josh McCown. Josh McCown.

Briefly. I mean, for like 10, five plays, something like that. I don't know. How many alarms do you have set Robert Mays? Several. Good Lord. Okay.

So these are the little details you pick up when you see. It's like how scouts insist on seeing a player in person. When you pot in person, you see all sorts of new things. I mean, I've got to wake up very early to write. So, okay. I'm ready. All right. So, yeah, I don't necessarily think that there's anything to take away from this, really for either team, except that the Falcons don't go in that O and two hole and that Carson Wentz just need to stop getting the crap knocked out of them.

This is a larger conversation, but it's, I feel like one of the themes over the last, the first two weeks of the season has been how some quarterbacks, no matter their past protection, aren't going to protect themselves. And that's not necessarily, we talk about this with running a lot, like our guys sliding, our guys taking hits, things like that. But in the pocket, there's still ways to keep yourself healthy, to get rid of the ball quickly, everything else. And Wentz just isn't one of those guys. I mean, the best throw he made today, he was getting dragged to the ground and threw it while his knee was half an inch off the ground. And that's part of his brilliance. But if you're that style of player, you're likely going to take more punitive. then you need to.

Hey, can I run past a theory that I've made up about four hours ago? Sure. Is it, some of these younger guys, whether that's, you know, Andrew Luck, love getting hit on the first play of the game.

You know, he grew up in Texas doing the 7-and-7 straight-up high school stuff. Is the way these guys are playing when they're younger, more conducive to just physical contact because they're running more RPO's, more read options,

stuff like that, that they are more comfortable, taking physical contact, and then that at the upper levels of the game then starts to wear on him. I'm writing about this next week. And I've talked to some people about this.

And I think it's a really interesting thought. What, about just how much, how much are getting hit? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so that, like that age of quarterbacks. But I think we've seen that with older guys, too. Like, Rathlisberger was like that for a while.

And then he changed as he got older. Rogers, too. And well, Rogers, he still holds on to the ball. Yeah. It's, I think that Rogers, like, I feel like some guys have that playing style. I think with Breeze and Brady, those are the two guys that I would say kind of are the best at making sure they get rid of it quickly. They negotiate the pockets subtly.

I think they've always kind of had that knack and that instinct. But I do think it's become more honed as they've gotten old. So I'll be curious what these guys look like 10 years into their career versus right now. Yeah. And I also think the part of it with the younger generation, especially, It's not anything other than they're taking more punchment than ever because they pass more than ever. They're dropping back more than ever. They're getting hit more than ever.

And this is something Kevin Seferd a couple of years ago had a really good piece about just the cumulative number of quarterback hits, not sacks, not anything else, just the amount they get hit on the ground. I actually talked to Chris Borland about this when he came and did, he came to Bill's podcast. And I sat down with this a couple years ago. We talked about it a lot. And he's like, it's not, and the problem is not actually just that. The problem is how many like spring practices there are and stuff like that. And quarterbacks get hit, they get the crap knocked out of them from the time they're 14 years old. I need to just briefly derail this podcast.

Warren Sharp, Mitchell Trubisky becomes the first starting quarterback to win a game, despite averaging 4.4 yards per play or less passing for 120 yards or less since he did it in 2018. Here are the only full-time starting QBs with his feet. 2019, Trubisky, 2018, Trubisky, 2017, J. Cutler, 2016, Brock Osweiler. Do whatever you need to do. We can keep going with this. I just thought it was going to be different. Well, we all did.

That's life. I just, I thought that the last couple of years were going to be different in the sense that it wasn't going to be all about, can the offense score 14 points? and have the team win. But that's where we are again. I tweeted this. It's the hope that kills you, Robert May. It's a very comfortable place for me because it's where I've existed my entire life.

Disappointed? No. Can the team score 17 points and win? Can we get a special teams or defensive touchdown because it's the only way that there are going to be points? It's in a weird way. I'm okay with this because it's so familiar. Okay. Before we move on, let's take another quick break.

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To see if you're eligible, go to NFL Sundayticket.tv and stream every NFL Sunday ticket game this season to follow your favorite team no matter where you live. Use promo code Ringer at checkout. say 15%. Exclusive student discounts also available. All right. One more stock down. What do we think about Cam Newton right now?

Yeah, he's banged up. Do you think that this is a health thing? Do you think that this is just something that's going to continue? Do you feel like Thursday night is a short week early in the season and aberration? Where are you kind of sitting with all this? Great question. I think that we need to be mindful of the fact that, again, it's early in the season, but it could be...

All season shoulder surgery. Four day week. Off season shoulder surgery. And what we need to be mindful of is they could either be just an early season operation, which is a rough two weeks, or it could be kind of long-term health problems catching up with camp. Or, or it could be that it is an actual injury problem, but it's temporary because it's off-season and solar surgery. So I think that any of, I think those three options, it is not, I'm not a, coach quarterback or doctor.

So I'm just going to say that they're all three are likely. To me, what I'm worried about is the way they're using him. It's not how he's looking. I think the lack of running. But that suggests something deeper. Does that suggest that he's hurt? Or does that suggest that they're doing everything they can

to make sure he doesn't get hurt? Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both. I talked to Ron and very a little bit about his load management stuff. in August and they were really, really careful with them. So I think it's a little bit of both. Remember, there were,

there was some sort of, there was some weirdness around that entry, um, where they just really didn't, there was no timetable. There were no real updates. Similar to the luck thing. And then one day,

yeah, and I didn't actually want to make that comparison here because luck, retired. Sure. But that was obviously, the same kind of like, wait, what's happening with this shoulder?

And so there were no updates. And then one day they were like, he's throwing. he's throwing and he's full go. So I thought that was strange. And so I think that this is going to be a journey for Cam. I'm not going to bury him. I'm with you on the Panthers having a good roster.

Let's check out their schedule. They have the Cardinals next week, and then the Texans. That's two wins. If they lose to Arizona, I think that that's when we can kind of start having a conversation. They go Cardinals, Texans, Jaguars, Bucks. than Niners Titans. So they don't really have a juggernaut coming

anytime soon. All right. Let's stay on the Jaguars for a second because let's get to our challenge flags and I want to throw one just about the dust up that happened on the Jaguar's sideline today. I think that sometimes we overreact to this stuff,

but I do think there's something to read into what happened when Doug Marone came over to Jalen Ramsey after he was kind of a little bit heated on the sideline. Because the two guys on the beach, bench. I can't remember who exactly it was. I think it was 25 and 26. All right. So it was DJ Hayden and Jared Wilson. And the way they both reacted to Doug Marone coming over to Jalen Ramsey, we've seen this all the time. Sometimes people get really emotional on the sideline. There are moments that aren't worth reading it to everything else.

But I do feel like that was worth paying attention to. They jumped off the bench and essentially told Doug Marone to go away in that moment. Do you think that I'm overreacting there? Do you think that maybe that speaks to something a little bit deeper that's going out? As far as them just not, them not having respect for Doug Maron? Yes. I don't know the answer to that. I think that there's, I think that there's, I can't remember something like that happening.

Logistically, he was, Ramsey was sitting down. Yes. So they couldn't get Ramsey away. Yes. So it could have just been that. Yeah, maybe they were like just leave him alone. He needs a minute. Something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that that necessarily suggests anything. I think that the actual spat is the problem, in my opinion. Like that was a little more heated than you normally get on the sidelines. You know, we see that every couple months or whatever, but I just didn't. It's, it is, as Joe Girardy said and now has now been stolen Malay Rubin. It's not what you want.

I just feel like there's a lot of stuff going on with. that team right now in that locker. And I'm probably paying more attention to it. And I'm probably a little bit more vigilant about that team than I am with most. And when I see something like that, it definitely makes my ears perk up a little bit. Well, listen, I mean, it reminds me of a little bit of the Seahawks locker room a couple years ago, except without the Super Bowls and the success. Again, what it's not what you want.

It's not what you want. No, it's just, you know, you get, it's funny because Gus Bradley was there and he brought in a couple of those guys but it's I forget what the I forget what the defensive coach was I for the Seahawks I forget what it was and he just said someone said what's the locker room like and this in Seattle and he said alphas alphas and that was it and and when you get those guys they're not alphas selectively they they do it when it's uncomfortable and that's something that when the good times are good. As you've seen in Seattle, those guys can be great leaders and great players and great quotes. And in Jacksonville, they've been all three of those. And sometimes you end up

fighting with Doug Morone. What's yours? Can we get Cliff Kingsbury's a fourth down chart? I, so Chris Brown tweeted about this today. And I tend to agree with him in the sense that for a coach that's just starting, it's understandable that they can be a little bit cautious. with moves like that because they don't have the cash out. Maybe Chase Stewart had Kingsbury is the first coach since the goal post move in 1974 to attempt three field goals

while trailing from inside the five. Don't lay up, Cliff. It's so funny because it's obviously like Doug Peterson is in his own category. They went for it on fourth and whatever today inside the five. They score a touchdown as they should have. So there are some coaches that are just very, you know, This is what I am.

We're going to make the right decisions. But some of the best coaches schematically in the league, McVeigh is the exact, is the perfect example. So these coaches that are, we think of these progressive thinkers that are so conservative in these down and distance choices. And it's so bizarre. I assume that someone will, one, get in his ear and two, as he gets a little bit further into his career, this may change.

But it's kind of weird. you know what I heard about Kingsbury that I thought was interesting to me there's a couple people who kind of know him and sort of know what's going on over there he says like the persona that's developed

around him is inaccurate and makes him uncomfortable like this like kind of like riverboat gambler good looking like outlaw he's just he just told me about him he's just kind of a football coach like he's got great he's got a great offense and all this stuff

but like this whole like Ryan Gosling thing that's not really his personality. Like, he's not, like, super cocky. He's not, he's just kind of a football coach. And there's, his- Time told me he gets in at 4.30 every single morning. Yeah.

And he literally just sits in his office until like six and then goes home. I mean, it's just 6 p.m. Yeah. Oh, I was going to say, that's sound, we found your problem if it was 6 a.m. No, it's, I mean, he's there for like 14 to 15 hours a day. And he just draws up plays in his little cave and then he goes home. And then he gets up the next morning and he does it again. He just, he's not, he's not.

literally what he said to me is he's like a grandpa and it's a grandpa who doesn't understand that it's now analytically important to go forward and forth down. Yeah, let's just let's just come on. Just go for it. We'll see what happens. Again, I think that if you get a little bit further into your career, you know, you're more than two games into your time with a certain team. You have a rookie quarterback, all that stuff.

You got fired from your last job. You know what it feels like. let's just hopefully it's not a Arizona legend once said no risket no biscuit

no biscuit Bruce Ariens one and one Bruce Ariens all right let's get to tomorrow's headlines I feel like

it's going to be about what happens with Breeze and Rathusberger I think that that's just it's the long and the short of it yeah

and also I did probably be some overreaction uh yeah probably some weird eagles overreaction I would not be surprised

if there's a is this the end of Eli narrative in New York oh yeah I'm surprised it hasn't been, that drum hasn't been getting hit harder to this point. Let's not overlook the idea that

the Jets might just be an all-time disaster on Monday night. Oh, I'm looking. Well, here's the deal. Here's the important part. It's Jets and Browns. And we have the Cape, we have a double disaster game. This is like,

this is kind of a loser leaves town mash a little bit in the sense that like, it's not strictly that, but. In terms of, Browns start O and 2. Yeah.

It is going to be a circus. And if the Jets start 0 and 2, it's also going to be a very different circus, but a circus nonetheless. Sam Donald has mono. There was a headline in the athletic I saw yesterday that said, what is mononucleosis?

A deeper look into Sam Donald's thing. I don't know. The things we could not have predicted about the days before a week to the NFL season. I'm happy. I'm happy.

be the B-writer did that. Just kind of explain what it was all about, but I just didn't see that as the explainer on a Saturday before game two. I have Baker and Lamar Jackson in a fantasy league. The fact that I didn't get to play Baker against this Jets team, when the bounce bag game is just clearly written was frustrating, but I'm very happy that I decided not to because Lamar Jackson was great again today. So I do feel like it's going to be a nightmare game for the Jets.

I agree. But if it's not... When Trevor Simeon throws for 400 yards, it'll be very funny, but... If it's not a nightmare game for the Jets, then there's going to be an incredible bit of news, like a news circus in Cleveland.

All right. We'll be back on Thursday, previewing week three. Again, if you are in the Northeast and you are available tomorrow or even if you're not, come see us. If you're not available.

Come see us at the Borgata. Make yourself available. Me, Kevin, Ryan Rucillo, be doing a live podcast right before the Monday night game. which will be, I don't know, worth watching in one way or another, no matter what happens. So please come see us. Is Sam Darnold available to come watch for this? He probably is.

As always, guys, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast Network. We'll talk to you soon. Today's episode is brought to you by Floor and Decor. Floor and Decor is where the pros go for tile, wood, stone, and installation materials. But the best part about Flora and Decor is their pro services and loyalty reward program. From the dedicated pro hotline to the exclusive pro app, your floor and decor team is just a touch away. Visit floridicor.com to find the location nearest you.