The Ringer NFL Show - Things This Preseason Has Changed Our Mind About

Episode Date: August 30, 2021

Kevin and Nora are joined by Benjamin Solak to discuss recent NFL news, including the Gardner Minshew trade (2:40). Then they each discuss things they’ve changed their mind about now that the preseason is over (29:46). Host: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Guest: Benjamin Solak Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From in-depth analysis of basketball and football to life advice, Ryan Rusillo has got you covered on the Ryan Rusillo podcast. Join him as he talks to some of the best names in sports while providing sharp analysis and wit you won't find elsewhere. Check out the Ryan Rusillo podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the Ring Run NFL show, part of the Ringar Podcast Network. I am Kevin Clark, joined today by the Dream Team Nora Prince Yadi, Nor what's going on? Not much, Kevin. In about 30 seconds, once you intro, Ben, I'm going to put you guys on the spot to share. with our listeners what you were just yelling at each other about.

Oh my God. And I'm with Ben Solac. Hi, Ben. This is good. Last time I was on the show, Nora just steamrolled into content without introing me. And this time, she said, we have to intro Ben in order to get to the content. I'm rising up in the world. I've decided I cannot do the intro without hijacking it.

So instead, I'm just going to say, hey, guys, I'm here. Whatever. Who cares? You have the floor. Keep yelling at each other because it was great. Nora, you are correct because this is the runner. We just steamroll into content, baby. This is not, we don't wait for content to happen.

We just make it happen. This freight train is leaving the station. When the, when I want to be careful here, because when the listeners find out what Ben and I were arguing about, they're going to turn it off. But we'll just say this. I send Ben, Solac, and Danny Kelly prospects to look at now sometimes. I like using them as a resource. And so I connected with him on the old Miss quarterback because I'd watched him and I had some questions about that. And then I randomly, I'm really excited about University of Miami's.

young players. So I sent them a 2020 recruit named James Williams, who's 6.3, 225, and play safety. And Ben Soak said he's Hassan Redick. And I said that he can play the dribble peppers role. And then right before this podcast started, we started yelling at each other about it. So that's where we are. All right. Hold on our respective lives. The rebrand that Kevin just pulled up. Oh, I send them prospects all the time, any old school, as opposed to just like high schoolers with vague affiliation to the University of Miami leading to a pre-pod conversation where just like F-bombs were flying. Upon recommendation from my legal counsel, my only comment on the situation is whenever a college football fan says, I'm excited about my team's young players, it tells you the state of that

college football program over the last decade or so. Oh, no argument here, buddy. Listen, if we do not have enough time for me to break down the University of Miami and their recruiting pipeline, we do not have enough time. So we need to move on. So we're going to do things that this preseason has changed our mind about. And we're going to go through some news. We will start with the biggest news that we missed over the weekend. We haven't done a podcast since. Gardner Minchew to the Eagles. Ben Solac, you're an Eagles fan. Does this tell us anything about anybody? No. I think it tells us in general, right? The Eagles have their, you know, when the Eagles draft the Jalen Hertz, they made it very clear during their pressors, the Zoom presser,

because it was the virtual draft. They said, we are going to care more about the quarterback position, and that means QB1 and QB2. We're going to care more about backup quarterback than anybody else in the league. That's important to us. We won a Super Bowl with our backup quarterback,

and we're going to always invest as the premium position, and we're going to be strong at the depth chart, on the 2D, which it is up for debate how wise it is to win a Super Bowl with your backup quarterback, and then be like, oh, this must mean backup quarterback

is really important, and we should spend a lot of money and resources here. There's kind of, you know, you've got one data point in terms of kind of where you're learning that lesson. And they spent, you know, 3.5 million on Joe Flacco and then traded, you know, they had yet to trade a pick in the 2022 draft because they're clearly accumulating capital a little bit to start this rebuild. This was the first time they sent any capital from that draft.

And they did it for Gardner, Mitchell, potentially a cost-controlled backup for the next couple of years, a guy who has starting experience. So if you have to put them in for three games or four games in the event of a minor injury to your starter, you feel comfortable. that he knows how to prepare and get the offense out there. Honestly, also, like, if you look at how Nick Serrani ran that offense with Philip Rivers and the amount of running back targets they had in quick targets, like that's how Minchu was successful in Jacksonville.

And so it makes a lot of sense in terms of what the Eagles have told us. We are going to care so much about quarterback that we are going to invest more, not only in QB1, but in QB2 and in QB3 than any other team will. So it's not terribly surprising, and I don't think it tells us anything new about where they think Jalen Hertz is. I do think that they would hope by the middle of the season in the event that Hertz goes down or hurts is playing poorly, that Minchu is their backup over Flacco, but they're going to carry all three.

And they're going to let those guys play it out, however kind of the chips fall during the season. And it's going to be a total cluster, but we're going to have a good time watching it. They're building the whole point out of the quarterback. So a couple of things I want to push back on. I do think that their emphasis on quarterback depth is a good thing. And whether or not Minchu and Flacco are important to the core mission of winning games in 2021 is kind of separate. But I think philosophically it's the right thing.

I talked to Jeffrey Lurie about this a couple of years ago. And he said they don't even call it the backup quarterback. They call it the second quarterback because that's just how they viewed things going back to Andy Reid, quite frankly. That's why they were always drafting quarterbacks in the mid rounds and all that stuff. I think that at one point they got memed for calling it a quarterback factory. But that is philosophically kind of what they want to do. And I go back to something that Jack Del Rio said a couple of years ago after the 2016 season,

which I think is an instructive way to not build a team, which is Derrick Carr goes down in week 16, 17, whatever is, right for Christmas. And they lose in the playoffs, obviously. And someone said to him, I think it was at the owner's meetings after that season. They said, what did you learn about football last year? And he said, I learned not to lose your quarterback. And I just think that's such a defeatist and terrible attitude. You can't go, I understand there's always going to be a drop off.

from the starter to the backup. But I do think investing in contingency plans of the most important position in sports just to listen, if Hertz goes down right now, that sucks and the season's over, okay? Season's probably over right now. Yeah, I know, I know that. But if it's a three-game thing

and you just, if you just need to be the bridge on a sprain, I don't hate the actual investment. Nor does this tell us anything about the Jaguars? Excuse me, your Jaguars? I still wish we had that sound drop. Like, where's my growl? Where's my roar? You can roar at any time you want.

You can be the sound drop. We're waiting. We're moving on from this. Yeah, we are. I do think, look, Trevor Lawrence is good, right? That was your first question before we even brought this up. Producer Isaiah, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Producer Isaiah has informed us he has the sound drop.

Isaiah, the floor is yours. Rahr. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. So Trevor Lawrence is good, right? I mean, I think that's pretty much all this says to us about the Jaguars. Here's my question about the Eagles. What you're saying, Kevin makes total sense to me for a good team, for a team that's likely to make the playoffs. What does it do for a mediocre to bad team that has done a really good job of amassing draft capital to potentially go after a top end quarterback next year? right? Because Minchew, Minchew is not, in my view, going to turn the Eagles from a middling to bad team into a very good one.

But here's the thing is that if you look at their wide receivers, you know, you look at Smith, Rieger, a lot of their guys, they can get open. And Minchew's a, for all of his positive and negative traits, he's a pretty accurate guy. So if the receivers are getting open, he's going to be able to find them. And I can see that offense taking a little bit of a step forward. at least just in sort of like baseline functioning if he does end up playing, whether it's because of injury, whether it's because of,

you know, he wins the job. I don't know. But I guess I just have it. I don't mean to be sort of fatalistic about this. What does it do for them if all it does is move them down the draft order? Uh-oh. The sound of hear is Jason Kelsey trying to zoom in.

Right. Yeah. I agree in the sense that, like, let's say the Eagles are very poor this year and none of their quarterbacks are good. Well, they're probably just going to go draft a guy or potentially trade for one, in which case, Jalen Hertz was going to end up being your very nice quality backup. And now you've got a good manchu who like, okay, doesn't really, you know, now you've got two really nice quality backups.

And let's say Hertz plays poorly this year. You put in Minshu and he's, as Nora is saying, decent enough. All right, well, you probably played yourself out of a great quarterback pick, but do you want to be tether to Minchue for your future, which, right, like, it, it, it, it, it's easy to knock the Eagles a little bit, right? Like, I make the comment about how all of this is off of one data point. And it really isn't, right? They have the San Bradford trade, you know, they had even the Kevin Cobb trade as well.

Like, they've always benefited from having multiple quarterbacks in the building and then being able to move those guys. Yeah. But I do agree with the overall- Incheel is a movable piece. Right, yeah. And people were surprised that he was available for a six. Like, people thought that maybe it would be worth more.

And maybe he will be after a year in the Eagles facility doing God knows what. But at the end of the day, like, it's good to invest in quarterback. It definitely is. I agree, Kevin. Also, the Eagles have no linebackers, just none. They have one corner and they have no safeties. And at some point, eventually you have to start, like, they invest in quarterback in the trenches. At some point, you have to start investing somewhere else.

And so you have to get talent at those other positions. And so the continued focus on quarterback while, like, I think, defensible in a vacuum, it does get a little bit tricky when you look at just how bad some other positions on the roster have been for the last like three or four years. And it's just when you when you look at that team that benefited so much from having, I mean, won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles as the backup. That was because it was a deep, deep, deep, talented, incredible roster across the board. If you think about that Raiders team, that was a really, really, really good team. I think it's a different calculus when it's like, okay, if things go lopsided, isn't it a better overall situation to be like, look, say there's a path

to Spencer Rattler, that probably runs through Joe Flacco at a certain point, at least is more likely to than it does through Gardner Minshue. And I know that that's a little bit bleak, but I just think that one of the most important things in personnel is kind of identifying where you are, right? Like, is the window open? Is the window closed? what is the value of moves relative to what the current makeup of the team is capable of? And this is just one of those things where if we talk about it as, okay, that's a good deal for them in a vacuum.

Like, agreed. A lot of people thought that Gardner Minshu would take a lot more to be had from the Jaguars. So if you sort of ignore all of that stuff out, you're just talking about a low cost investment in the most important position for a guy who's looked pretty good at times. like that's great. The question is just like, to me,

how does it fit in with the overall trajectory of the team, which is so weak in certain places, but also has done such a good job of pooling assets to potentially rebuild in the future if Hertz doesn't work this year. We need to move on for time, but I am

now imagining because my brain is broken. Joe Flacco in a top hat inviting you on the road to Spencer Rattler. All right. James Winston's started in New Orleans. Not much of a surprise. Ben thoughts. Marquez Calloway, James Winston Connection, baby. Norland Saints wildcard

team. Let's do it. A viable fantasy option now. Right. This is what always made sense. It was always James is going to come in. He's going to be behind Breeze for a year. They're going to have an opportunity to onboard him into the vernacular of the offense and the philosophy of the offense while also getting a feel for like,

all right, we can't run late era Drew Breeze offense with James. What do you like from this that we can, you know, bring on next year? And then what are we going to bring back from like early era Breeze Payton, which is all that vertical stuff, right? And we're going to bring that in and we're going to be able to push the ball down the field. And that's where a player like Marquez Calloway, who has size and speed, become so valuable because now it's going to be hunting explosives. It's going to be hunting verticals.

So that passing offense is going to be volatile, but at times effective. They have the offensive line to let James sit back there for a while and wide receiver depth and talent of all is a question, but Calloway has looked really nice. You're going to be able to get some good plays out of that. And you always have Alvin Camer to lean back on, throwing the fact that the defense is still talented despite some of the departures. And yeah, like the Saints can be goodish, quality-ish. It's not going to be the same smooth operation, but they're going to win some games that maybe it feels like they shouldn't because I think they're going to have some positive

progressions and volatility to them. So I think this was always the plan and never should have not been the plan despite any Sean Payton trolling that may have ensued over the last 12 to 16 months. Nora, you have been high on LASIC Jamis for the better part of eight months. any expectations for him as a more accurate passer, maybe a pastor who doesn't throw 30 interceptions, set the expectations for us going into 2020, for James.

Well, so this is why this is so fascinating to me. We don't know, right? And James, look, I don't mean to, like, meme James into a pulp by calling him LASIC James all the time. Like, that's not the whole picture. And obviously, James Winston as a person is a little bit more complicated. than that. But as a situation for an athlete, it is genuinely incredibly fascinating to me that a guy who obviously had trouble seeing the field in the normal football sense of that phrase got LASIC surgery

and now we get to see what happens. It is genuinely so exciting to me that we just get to like sort of answer. I don't know if we'll get the answer, but at least get some data points. towards answering that question. I also feel like we would be remissive not to say that the Saints are currently in Dallas. They evacuated because of the hurricane. And I know we've got listeners down there. And I hope everybody is safe and hanging in there.

And we'll obviously see what happens as far as what they're going to do in week one and how long they'll be there. I'm sure, you know, they are in a relatively good spot in terms of having the resources to be somewhere else and they should be okay if they have to play. like week one in Dallas or something, but just hope everybody's hanging in there. And yeah, I mean, we'll see what,

we'll see what it holds, but he's looked pretty good in preseason. And the thing that gives me pause about that is that with James, it's never, he's never been the guy who doesn't have great plays, right? It's just that you get, you get both ends.

30.30. So, there's two sides to that 30, 30, baby. 30 for 30. So we'll just, Is it possible that once he's playing, you know, starting defenses all the time, it transitions back from fewer of the great plays, more of the terrible plays? Sure. But I think he looked really promising in the preseason.

And it really, like, it is so simple to say that the guy needed LASIC surgery, that there just might be something there. And wouldn't that be a delightful thing? Like, wouldn't that just be so, like, This is a billion, billion, billion dollar enterprise of a league. And this guy was starting. And what if he just needed LASIC surgery? I'm sorry.

I'll never get over it. I hope that you get this. I really do. You look so earnest, so hopeful. I really hope for you that this is a thing. All right. Nor are you good? It's just like if you, if, no, I'm not good.

Nor has moved away from the microphone to process this. If you calculate, again, I'm not, I don't know if this will happen. I don't know if his vision was like genuinely very bad. But if you calculate like if you try to quantify the dollar amount per win, per loss, per interception, and he just needed LASIC? All right. Let's go through two quick injuries here. First one, J.K. Dobbins. We might have to give Nora a rep off here.

She's, uh, she's processing the LASIC James situation. Um, J.K. Dobbins out for the season. Ben so like, what is this? I've made so many jokes about this and I never thought it would actually happen. Yep. You spoke it into existence. Manifesting. Right.

Sorry. J.K. Dobbins out for the year. Ben, what does this do to the Ravens? I think it's a very, very big deal. This, like,

ties into my first preseason thing that I learned. Of course, the preseason. Do you want me to just hop into that all together? Let's wait on it. Just flick at it. It's a very big deal because it's going to change the way that the Ravens offense is going to work and it puts them in jeopardy of having to figure out new stuff. That's a teaser.

It's a teaser for the audience. Do you have a teaser for the audience? Have a Heineken after the ads. Okay. Anyway, yeah, you. I was in a golf course a couple weeks ago and someone came out to me and said, is it the summer of Heineken? And I forgot. I forgot that I'm the guy who says that.

All right. Nora, Ravens? you know, I think that's, it's, I'm sorry, I'm still, I'm still, I have the giggles. I'm going to have to, I couldn't, are we going to have to sub sub sub you out and bring in high fits? I don't know. Okay, hold on. Game face. Game base. Game base. Um, it obviously really stinks to, to, to lose J.K. Dobbins. I think, you know, the, the Ravens have always been so interesting to me because it just feels like they always have a plan, right? Like, every offseason you can kind of tell, like, here's the thing that they've identified as what they need to improve on and then they just go fix it.

It's very sort of satisfying. And the leadership there is so smart that you just always feel like, man, like, they're in such good hands. They can see what they need to do and then they just go do it. The problem is, like, then you have these just really, really, really crappy curveballs. And he was such a big part of what seemed like it was going to make them go that, yeah, I mean, this feels like something that. that's going to make them reshuffle kind of how they operate, particularly after an off season,

where they tried so hard to add to that receiver room, hopefully to the end of creating a slightly more, you know, dynamic, effective downfield passing game. That existed within the context of they would have that balance. They would have kind of their bread and butter running game to rely on. I think, you know, they love Gus. They love the Gus bus. And it doesn't seem like they're necessarily going to make a move to try to add someone to the running back room because it seems like they like the guys that they have there. But it does feel like a real hit to them.

And I think sometimes, look, football teams are big. Sometimes these injuries in August, they feel like the sky is falling. And then assuming it's not a quarterback or somebody really, really, really key, you kind of move into the season to go, okay, yeah, it actually, it takes a lot of guys. to make one of these teams go. But he does feel like the type of player who is really critical to their overall functioning. All right. More Ravens in a second has been teased. One more injury.

Ty Whilton has a disc issue. He's going to miss some games according to Frank Reich. They're optimistic. It's not season ending. Leaving aside what this does to the Colts offense, Ben, is, are the Colts deep enough? Because we keep seeing these injuries pile up. they have a really good roster. But after you see hit after hit, after hit, after hit,

are they deep enough to still be good? I think the coaching staff is enough that you're going to be able to survive it, right? You can make it. I do. And also, like, you know, a lot of these injuries, the way they're presenting it is it's going to be a matter of weeks and not months. It's going to be to start the season, but we're going to get to full strength. So I think if you're able to survive the early season changes, then yeah.

The division helps. Exactly, right. You're going to be able to stay in the play. that picture and then you need to be solid. To me, the most difficult and concerning thing is the emphasis on chemistry and Carson Wentz's new digs, right, and his new kicks. Like, Wence's problems in Philadelphia were largely because, like,

he was working with a wide receiver room that he just was unfamiliar with. The offensive line had constant turnover. He just ever felt comfortable, and he accordingly kind of spiraled into hero ball. They really want to be a downfield passing team. They want to be able to throw the ball more downfield. They've been so impressed with the differences between, and Rivers in terms of arm strength and mobility. T. Y. Hill is your field stretcher.

You'd like for it to be Paris Campbell. Certainly, that may have been the plan, but at Ohio State, he was a running catch guy. He was a shallow target guy who used to speed after the catch. He struggled to see the field. They haven't gotten him into that field stretching role yet. Michael Pittman Jr. is a good downfield contested ball receiver, but he's not that field stretching player. He's not that deep threat.

And so you now lose some Hilton time with Wentz just getting back into practice. After Wence wasn't there when Hilton was healthy. And it's just, it's easy to see how the, the, the familiar cracks of Wenz's struggles are starting to, to reappear in Indianapolis. It's nobody's fault. But it's difficult to go to a new team, even when you know the coach, and immediately pick things up when you've yet to really throw to your primary receiver that much in camp. And so that's the main concern for me is like, even when they get everybody healthy, we know, with a short and preseason that the first few weeks of the regular season act as an onboarding time. The coach are going to have to be doing that in week like six, that that's, that. It's not when you want to still be trying to like, you know, get all that, all that aligned.

All right. Schedule problem for the Colts. We talked about the division. Maybe it's not very good. Here are their first five games. Seahawks, Rams, Titans, Dolphins, Ravens. Some good defenses. Also the Titans.

The Texans are October 17. That's their first real gimmie. And in a division where you. you should feast on gimmies. They don't have a lot on the early part of the season. They could be behind the eight ball going into mid-October.

And by the way, after they get the Texans, 49ers Titans again. Yish. Then they get the jets and the Jaguars back to back. But I'm just saying, it's really, really important to them

that Pittman is good, quick. And they really believe in him. They loved them when they got him. They loved them year one and think year two is taking a big step. That's all great. but it's put up shot up time right away for him, which is very unfortunate,

but that's what they need to win a couple of those games early. Gentle reminder that the Colts new quarterback is a guy who could probably use an early season confidence boost. Yeah, it's a great point. By the time the Colts play the Texans, I will have attended five weddings. Congrats. That's unbelievable.

Oh, my God. It's a big podcast for Nora. What a huge podcast. Nora, you've done some reporting. You've interviewed Michael Pittman. Obviously, you had Chris Ballard as your number one GM. Same question I asked Ben. Is this team good enough to survive a depth scare?

I mean, they're surviving 50 depth scares, right? Like, I will maintain until the cows come home or whatever that it is impressive the position that they started from. It's just that over the last few weeks, it's like always something, right? It was whence. It was Nelson. now it's Hilton. Like it just, they were always in a position where they were going to need a few breaks.

And it feels like the breaks are so far at least going in the opposite direction. So I cannot say that I am particularly optimistic. I don't think that it's totally fair to pin that on the general manager just because I think a lot of teams, if their depth was tested in this way, it would be like the sky is falling. So I think the testament to that organization is that the sky is not totally falling. It's just that you're looking up and going like, is that a crack? Is that a little crack? Yikes. It's looking a little cloudy.

All right. Last thing, Jack Lawson goes to the Jets. Ben, anything. I mean, he's the Carl Lawson replacement, but he's not as good as Carl Lawson. We're not expecting much from the Jets anyway. Does this move the needle for you? Here's what I like about this. Joe Douglas sat down with a defensive line just full of like glassy and bullies.

right, just Quinn and Foley Fottacassi and John Franklin Myers just like big Henry Anderson, he left but anyway, it's like big angry dudes and he was like, all right, we need like an actual like legit speed rush, right? We need a guy who went on the outside track. It's going to get Carl Lawson. It's still very tough, but Carl Lawson's a tough cookie.

Awesome. Carl Lawson comes in, looks great, gets injured. The worst. So, just sucks. It was so excited to see Lawson as a jet. What does Joe Douglas do? Okay, we're getting another ass kicker. Shaq Lawson. We're going back to what we know. Back to what we know. We're giving it. Big, large humans up front. We're going to stop the run

and never pressure the quarterback. We have no corner. It's going to go great. There's no better option. You don't get like a really high quality outside Russia this late in the process unless you're the Ravens with Justin Houston. Lawson's a good player. Does what he does well. And the Jets have shown that they know how to use that player appropriately. So when they go

like with Quinn and Foley, Franklin Myers and Lawson up front, that's a extremely menacing front if you're running the ball on first down. In other contexts, not as much. But in that context, that's, that's going to be legit. And the Jets were able to stick in some games last year. You remember that Rams game because they can really, really control the front against teams

I want to be able to run the ball. So there's, there's merit there. It's just unfortunate that they were looking to take that next step with Carl Lawson and kind of just fell back on what they're doing now with Shaq. Oh, we remember that Rams game. Yeah, sure do. Hey, I want to ask you, because you mentioned the cornerbacks, obviously that's their huge weak spot. Is there a case to be made that this Jets defense can be, can be okay and make up those deficiencies? I mean, they have, you know, Marcus May is obviously very good. The front can be very good. Quinn and Williams is awesome.

Getting C.J. Mosley back is at least a thing. But the cornerback play is obviously the biggest question mark. Any case you made for the Jets defense. Yeah, I've got like one of those tweets that you send in March when nobody's looking. And it was like, hey, Jet Stevens might be good next year. And I just hope they're good. And then I can bring it back and be like, you see, even though it's like the only time I've ever referenced it. You're like one of those spam accounts that just tweets every possibility and then deletes the ones that aren't true.

and then you're like, look, I had this. Right, never wrong. What Robert Saleh was able to do when he had Richard Sherman, who was like playing well, but like not necessarily Sherman levels on one side. And then Akello Weatherspoon plus Emmanuel Mosley on the other side in San Francisco was really, really impressive. He was able to do it with not super great corners there because, yes, they had the dominant front. But they also had unbelievable safety play. And then, of course, guys like Fred Warner and Kowan Williams doing great stuff in terms of interior coverage.

They have that front in New York, especially on the running down to we talked about. They have a good safety duo, like Ashton Davis, who was the third round pick last year. They don't have the interior coverage guys to get away with it. They don't have a good interior coverage backer. C.J. Mosley brought in Jared Davis from Detroit. Now the one of those guys of that player. They'd love for Homs and to Cyril Dean, who's a fifth round pick out of Florida State, big safety linebacker hybrid. He was like a Jakee Tark comp.

And obviously, Sala coached Tart in San Francisco. Now he has a similar body type in New York. They'd love for him to be that guy, but it's a sixth round rookie. You can't really put that onus on him at this time. So I think that they're building it in that image. And I think they're going to be better than people expect, but they just don't have the horses in terms of coverage to hide the outside corners. They're not as good at the other spots to get away with it.

Nora, the Jets just generally need to do what this year? First of all, I could have just ended the question of just the Jets just generally. Generally, please take it. Take it wherever. First year of a new quarterback, new coach, new everything. What is success for them? The success is that Wilson looks good, right? Like the success is that that offensive line is solid enough that they can get real development from him.

One, just get a good look at what he's doing. See if they feel like they picked right. Two, use it as an opportunity for him to get better in year one, then be able to look. Like, I think we're all big fans of the personnel department there and what they've done. they can do a lot more with another year, right? Particularly if they feel like, okay, we have at least, we feel like we've answered the quarterback question. So I don't think that the Jets are really even looking at this year as the year to try to contend whatsoever.

Success for the Jets is feeling good about their quarterback. Yeah. I would not be surprised if the Jets have a little bit of that 2019 Dolphins arc. We're in the first half of the season, it's like, woof. The second half of the season, it's like, hey, we won games. This is sick. Or hanging with teams are not supposed to

beating the Eagles in the case of the 2019 dolphins. I will say the University of Miami Deptart just came out in our 6-5 overlord is listed as the second team safety.

Listen, he's earned as stripes. Let's get to the things we learned this preseason or things that we've changed our minds about that we came in on July 28th thinking, hey, I got an idea

and then it flipped on its head. Ben, you teased one earlier. Let's just get to it. You have the floor on the Ravens. Yeah, I, before the preseason, you know, in July, I would have made the case that the biggest contender for the Chiefs dominance in the AFC was the Baltimore Ravens. Every single year, as in what I said, they just make good moves, right? Like a free agency period of Justin, Kevin Zeiler, Alejandro Villanoeva, Samuel Watkins, is just like, that's just good business. You know what I mean?

They draft appropriately, doubled up being a wide receiver, loved Rashad Bateman, like they're the team. And it's not like their preseason was poor, but while their preseason was going on, they just caught the end. injury bug. And it's not been discussed in the same way that has for a team like the Colts. Like we've talked about multiple times. But Markey's Brown practiced once all season. He's got a hamstring, which has been an issue that's nagged him from multiple seasons. They're hoping he's ready by week one. He has not yet participated in team drills. Week one is two weeks away. So that is a very optimistic of projection at this time. Rashad Bateman, as we know, had the soft tissue issue. Pulled his groin. Coach Harba said it was a matter of weeks and not months. He's right now doing

slow movements, right, catching the ball, running routes, but he has not been activated for team drills. He's not been activated for 11-11s. His week one availability is a hope, but it's in jeopardy. J.K. Dobbins then goes down with the ACL, right? This offense fell from first in DVOA in 2019 to 11th in DVOA in 2020. And in large part, it was because concerns with the passing game.

And we need to get better than passing game. But also, that offensive line dropped down and that running game dropped down a little bit. And they elected to move on from Mark Ingram. And they elected to move on from Orlando Brown because they believe they could still generate enough of a running game with the pieces there. Of course, with Lamar as the centerpiece.

Dobbins going down really, really hurts. Dobbins is an extremely versatile back. He's a very good past catcher, which they were going to try to do more this season. You lose him and now you bring in Gus Edwards, very likable guy. Tyson Williams, who's their undrafted free agent at a BYU who's played very, very well.

Absolute hammers, right? They're both like 220, just angry sons of guns. The physicality is going to be great, but they do not have the explosive playability. in terms of the ball of their hands that Dobbins did. And when you have your receivers dropping, you're going to lose some of your explosives in your receiving game, which is not like you had that many to begin with.

So this now becomes a much more methodical plotting team, right? Like this receiving court early on is going to be like Sammy Watkins, who also missed a week of practice, James Prochet, like Devin, DuVernay. It is not a dynamic receiving room. And with Edwards and Tyson Williams as your backfield, it's not going to be a dynamic running game. All of the explosives, once again,

feel like they're going to be centered around Lamar and his ability to create with the ball in his hands. And on top of all of their injury concerns, Lamar missed 10 days this past month because he tested positive. And this is the second time he's tested positive. He's pretty evidently unvaccinated, given the way that he had to go through the protocols,

which we talk about what that might mean for the bills with Cole Beasley and the Vikings with Kirk Cousins. It's also extremely important to the Ravens because for very few teams in the league is one player so integral to the entire philosophy on offense as Lamar Jackson is to the Ravens. So the Ravens, they've always been a team that's been balanced. There's a common public narrative like the defense carries the offense.

It's never been true under the Lamar era. They were pretty much equal in DVOA in both years. This might be a year where the defense has to carry the offense a little bit, especially early, which the Ravens have like the Raiders. They have the Chiefs in Week 2 and they've still never beaten the Chiefs in the Lamar era. they have the Broncos in week three or week four, excuse me, have the charges in week six.

They have some actually legitimate tough games in the early slate of the schedule. And if they're coming back from injury and dealing with uncertainty and an offense that needed to change identity already, needed to pass the ball more, offense could be really, really touch and go. Could be very, very much so whatever Lamar is

is what we are early. And that could be a problem, especially if Lamar has to miss time as COVID continues to be a reality of the 2021 season. So the Ravens' offensive situation is a lot more tenuous than I think we hoped it would be a month ago. And it's, it's not that they're performing poorly in preseason, but it's just they're missing a lot of key pieces right now. Okay, so a couple of things off that. Number one, Hollywood Brown is practicing today for the first time since July

28th. That's awesome. Thank God. That can't literally came out as you were talking. All right. I will manifest. That's, that's, uh, hardball, just addressing the haters. He heard you. Um, I also want to address one other thing that you said about moving on for Mark Ingram. Uh, I, I always joke that we cover the sport a little too closely to do the Charles Barkley, who he played for a game. But I want to stop right here and ask Nora Princiotti who Mark Engram plays for right now. Oh, God, I have no idea. Is he on the chart?

It's the team that you think you should guess for this question. I did not know. I did not know. For insert player name here, who does he play for in 2021? He's making $2.5 million. Is it the Raiders? It is the Houston, Texas. Oh.

Yeah. Oh, that's upsetting. It is upsetting. Houston has him, Rex Burkhead, Philip Lindsay, and then what other, like, actually kind of real running back? I can't remember who it is. Either way, very odd team. This is upsetting. Well, that's true.

All right. Nora, anything there as far as the Ravens as AFC contenders, that's where your mind has been changed over the past month? Well, you know, I think I probably started a little lower on that. them to begin with just because this is the type of stuff that I worry about them, worry about for them. Right. Just given that they're an incredible team. Lamar is incredible.

I think they are so smart. They do so many things right. But it is still a fact of NFL life that when you're not operating from a baseline place of our passing game is our bread and butter, it gets harder. More things have to go right. You have to have more, you have to be more creative. You have to be luckier. You have to have better injury luck.

You have to be better across the board. You have to, you rely more on balance. It's just still the easiest way to win in the NFL is not quite the way that they're going about it. And they're so smart. And Lamar is so incredible just as a player that I think usually they're able to pull it off. And evidently they have been because they've been fantastic. But it's just the type of thing that, you know, for the last.

couple of seasons going into the start of the year, it's just given me this little bit of like, hmm, if the, you know what hits the fan, they don't have that thing that they can just lean back on and go, you know what? If we are good at passing the ball, we should be okay. And we can get through if there's a couple bad stretches with health, if there's a couple bad stretches where there's just tougher games on the schedule, fine. And I worry about them from that perspective. Now, there are a few better teams in football, I think better equipped to,

just handle a tough situation like this and make good decisions around it. I just, I always come back to that little bit of, of fundamental shakiness with them. Ben, so like, give me your top three ASC teams. Kansas City, Buffalo,

Baltimore, probably at this point. Still, still, okay. I just wanted to make sure that, right. You're just saying the gap between Buffalo and Baltimore is bigger than it used to be.

Yeah. And right, I think that it's, it is, I hear what Nora is saying. I do. I do think that like, So the Ravens passing game by DVOA over the last two years was like 17 and 2020.

And I want to say it was like 12 or 13 in 2019. Like they're always like they were average last year. They're a little bit above average of the year previous. They to me they have like they're the exception that proves the rule. Like you need to be able to like passing is how you win in the NFL. The Ravens are the exception that proves that rule in the sense that they're so good at running that it does not actually matter. But they have been trying to swing that way. right they have they there was a very clear change in investment this year at wide receiver

past blocking offensive tackles we are going to be able to throw the ball it's very unfortunate that this is happening right now and i'm not sure they're going to be able to throw the ball that successfully anyway because i don't have a lot of faith in greg roman so i do think they do have a winning formula i have faith in them to be able to beat teams like buffalo beat teams like cleveland and even beat a team like kansas city even though they have never beaten kansas city it's just this confluence of injuries really sucks for getting this playing off the ground all right nora your first thing you learned. All right.

Well, let's stay in, let's stay in that division. For the record, this is not about the Browns. I would have had the Browns on that, you know, competition for the Chiefs list higher than the Ravens to begin with

and certainly still do. So the Steelers might not suck. This is the thing that I feel differently about. Now, this is outrageous because you, you stake your claim. No, I don't think they're going to be good. Mm-hmm. But I think they might not suck.

And I am going hand up here because I really thought that they might be. And this is no offense to the Steelers, wonderful story and franchise. I just, I watch the end of last season for them, really going into this year felt like, you know, Ben's only getting older. I don't know what is supposed to turn this train around. What was built into that was that there are a lot of things that Matt Canada likes to do that I felt like could help them. I felt like, you know, motion, play action, the things that, one, are sort of his bread and butter, but just make any offense better in the modern NFL, they could have helped the Steelers. I just didn't think that they were going to be sort of willingly implementing those things because

Rathlisberger is on record as not having been so much of a fan. And that was not how he liked to play in the past. And he's been around. He's had a lot of success. Usually those players, particularly a quarterback, it's hard to teach an old dog new track. having seen them in the preseason, it seems as though he has embraced that philosophy is willing to turn his back to the defense, using motion, using more play action. And it looks pretty good. I don't think it's going to totally, totally turn that into like one of the better offenses in the NFL.

But particularly because offensive line is such an issue for them, the more they use that stuff, the easier life will be on that line that could not. I mean, they were okay pass blocking, but they just could not create anything for a run game last season. I think, you know, we'll see if there have been improvements there. But overall, if he's not so much of a sitting duck back there, I think he will make life easier on that line, which was such a weakness for them, that I have a little bit more faith in them at least like keeping the train on the tracks, having a solid season, the defense is still very good. Mike Tomlin is great.

It's never had a losing season. The thing that I feel differently about is I don't think he's going to start now. it's a big call, Ben. Are the Steelers going to suck? I never thought they'd suck. And that's the thing is, like, last year, they were, what, 11 and 0? And it was all just like, all right,

they shouldn't be 11 and 0. Like, this is too much. Then they lose, I think, five of their last six. Too much, too much. Too far, too far. Guys, everybody is Jerry Seinfeld on this podcast. We're all like, what? No.

No. No. Wrong. Incorrect. Far too much. So then I think they, I believe they lose five of the next six if memory serves me correctly. They beat the Browns with kind of like a... They forgot how to play football.

Yeah, a meaningless week 17 game and then they answer the playoffs and it's just absolute chaos. Just dogs without horses. That leads to like this huge pendulum swing where it's, all right, the Steelers are, this is who the Steelers are. They're a one in 16.

Probably not, right? Like, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. I agree. I think the Matt Canada influence will have some positive effects. Canada's been a, a bit of a transient figure in football circles. He's struggled to hold down jobs for multiple seasons.

The sense that you get from other coaches that he's a tough guy to get along with, and he likes to stick to his guns. Rathlisberger at times can be a tough guy to get along with likes to stick to his guns. I think that if the offense works nicely, that's good. They don't necessarily have, I think, the talent to compete in the AFC, but they could be a legitimate wildcard team. They can be annoying in that division. That front four for the defense remains delightful.

If things go poorly, this could get like wicked explosive. So I do think the Steelers are going to be better than a lot of like football tropes have them as just because they were such a mercurial team last year. But there are realities where this goes like way banana shaped, pear shapes. Ben, what do you think of Firemuth? I like to. He's good. I'm chuckling because Pat Firemuth had a good freshman season at Penn State. and then people just started calling him baby gronk,

which is what you do when any white tight end is like kind of decent. Yeah, there are two. This is actually, I don't know if we've ever talked about this. This is like a longstanding thing for me. There are too many baby grongs. Not everybody can be baby gronk. Which I know gronk is like a party loving guy,

but I just don't think, you know, his progeny is that, you know, widespread, but whatever. Wow. I was not expecting that to go there. Did not see that take coming. Baby gronk, Pat Frymouth. He's just a fine player. He's well rounded.

He can get into the. his short, his short reps nicely, his short routes and he can separate. I don't think he's a particularly elite player with elite cardinal trade. So like round two tight end is going to like, you know, be a jack of all trades disguised tendency for you. It's perfectly fine. I think Ebron remains their primary receiving down threat, despite the drums. All right.

I'm going to get to mine. So I spent some time reporting on this. And I actually talked to a quarterback today for Slow Newsday. And we talked a little bit about this. And I, I, I, uh, I had talked to a handful of coordinators about it over the past month. I think that there's going to be a lot more load management than we think going forward in the NFL for a lot of reasons. Number one, obviously, is the 17th game.

Number two, I think everyone keeps focusing on the quarterback position. And quarterbacks are the least likely to load manage in this scenario. Now, if you have a situation like Ben Rathesberger where, for God's sakes, he started practicing on July 24th, I think, this year. And then they can play 17 games. That's the longest season for an old quarterback ever, really. But he's skinny now. He's in shape. He's on the TB12 method.

He started the TB 12 method at age 39. Right on time, baby. So, but what I think from talking to people is, A, number one, I think a lot of people want to expand the rosters. That's probably not going to happen right now. Hasn't happened yet. I think the increase in practice squad is obviously important here. I think that some of the rules last year as far as being able to activate people

and then put them back on the practice squad and all that. I think that that was embraced by by coaches. I think they liked the flexibility of that. But what I will say, I think, is going to happen based on people I've talked to is that you're going to see a lot more of guys just getting pulled in games that don't matter.

Or if it's a three-touchdown game, they're just going to say, let's just save this. I think with the increased emphasis on sports science, all that stuff on the player GPS, the data, whatever, you know, just measuring strain, I guess you could call it. I think we know so much more. And I think that the existence of the 17th game,

especially after Thanksgiving, we're going to see a lot more, I guess you could say, load management type blowouts where maybe the game is out of hand by a little bit. A coach says, let's get these guys out of here. Let's get our first team defensive line out of here.

We got a 35-year-old to get them out of here. And I think that you're going to see differences in the way the game is played because of that 17th game. Nor, you've done some just general reporting on how your offseason has changed and all that stuff and what football kind of learned about itself. What do you think the effects of the 17th game and the new offseason are going to be going forward? Yeah, I think that's a really good point that we're going to see some probably more

in season load management. First of all, the sentence, there's a 35 year old in here, get them out of here. I haven't found the joke yet, but there's a joke in there somewhere and I will find it. I think if you talk to players, a lot of them care about, you know, the rhythm of games. And once you get in it, staying in it, I think they feel more strongly about, I don't know, offseason load management, if we want to call it that. I think, I think players, some of those guys don't want to practice at all from February until August, which is a good. I mean, I think it was the Tom Brady point, which is that the NBA doesn't randomly get people

together on August 15th and say, let's have a three-day minicamp. That's what you think. What do you think James Harden is doing right now? That's a really good question. There's a particular Reddit thread on James Harden that comes to mind. We're going to move on. So I think the general consensus from players right now

is more towards we would like a more limited off-season program. They would also really strongly like a clearer distinction between mandatory and voluntary. Right? Like that's something that really grinds players gears is all this stuff that is quote unquote voluntary, but is just not voluntary in the truest sense of it where it doesn't affect your job prospects, job performance. I think second to that, a lot of veterans care a lot more about throughout the week

what they're being asked to do, whether or not they can have sort of veterans days off once in a while. That stuff I think is really important to players. in terms of just sort of snap count management stuff, I think that's probably a little bit further away. And I think if, if largely for players, if you asked them to choose, right? Like, we're going to spell you here and there now that the season is 17 games

long versus in the spring. You're not going to have these quote unquote voluntary practices that you actually really should attend. Otherwise, the coach is going to be mad and maybe take it out on you in some form in terms of your job standing. Actually, you get to work out on your own day with your family during that time. Definitely think they lean more towards that. But agree with you that one of the lessons learned from last season was certainly these guys can stay in shape,

but also taking a little bit off their plate physically, it doesn't seem to have negative effects in terms of preparedness, readiness, training. and it seems to help as far as limiting injuries. I think that's less, it seems like the data says that's less the case just because they're, you know, staying stronger and there's less sort of cumulative wear and tear than it is just a proportional decrease in, okay, you play 15 snaps instead of 45,

well, that's a third of the potential snaps on which you could be injured. So it's less like you're less tired, your soft tissue is in better shape or whatever, than it is just, okay, if you're not training in the spring and doing competitive reps then, then you're probably not going to, you know, have some big injury in the spring.

All right, Ben, what's your next one? Yeah, it's actually, it's not precisely in this mold, but it's a little bit related. In early August, Kyle Shanan, head coach the 49ers, said a quote, where he said he was going to manage his quarterbacks, Tray Lance and Jimmy Garoppolo, similarly to how he manages his wide receivers.

Every receiver who makes our team is going to play this year. I know it's different, but when you have quarterbacks with different skill sets and stuff, it kind of makes it easier for me to look at it similar to other positions. And that's why I don't think

playing two quarterbacks is a problem for our team, yada, yada. And anytime a head coach says, yeah, we're going to do a two quarterback system, you go, okay, and you don't believe it because it's just, it's nonsense, right? It's like, all right, gadget play here and there, you know?

I think Press Taylor said that the future of the evening, Eagles, like three years ago was going to be multiple quarterbacks in the backfield, including, I believe, Greg Ward. Right. And then they would put Jalen Hertz in the backfield and, like, do like a play action fake and then throw a screen to Dallas Goddard for six yards. It's like, hey, you know what?

Also would have picked up six yards? A regular screen to Dallas Goddard. The Ravens did it with Joe Flackle and Lamar Jackson, right? Where Joe Flack are like trying to get Lamar murdered. It was horrible. The two systems are like, they're like communism. It's like a good idea in theory and that it always ends in disaster. Oh, boy.

Wow, deep political commentary from now. Woof, let's quickly move on from that. Carl Marks very famously remarking. Let's get back to Joe Flacco. You guys don't like that I brought up communism on the podcast? Well, Joe Flacco sees the means of production on that particular wildcap play. Yes, he did not, he did not put any, he did not have any interest in, in highlighting Lamar's skill set there.

No, no, no, no, no, it was Tyrod Taylor. It was Tyrod Taylor. The one where he just mailed it in was Tyraud Taylor. if I'm not mistaken. No, there's one where, like, Lamar winds up as like a wide receiver and, like, doesn't go into a route. No, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Flacco throws it to him, like, late in the down.

And Lamar really gets, like, lit up by a corner. Yeah. I will say a bit, I think it's a bit of a red flag that we have multiple low energy Joe Flacco wildcat place. Yeah. This is the point we're confusing them all. Let, let us forget that the young quarterbacks that Flacco as a veteran has developed have been Sam Donald and Drewlock. So, like, all of this to say. Jimmy Groplo and Trey Lance.

We're going to do a 2QB thing. And this was something that Shanahan said in early August. And then in the third preseason game against the Raiders this past weekend, he kind of did it. And it kind of worked, which like things that work against the Raiders defense is a larger bucket than things that you should do as an NFL offense. I acknowledge that. But you could see how it mattered, right?

When Lance went out there for third downs, when out there in the red zone, you could see it changed the calculus for how run defenses are going. to account for the Lance running threat. Fundamentally, when a quarterback is a threat to run, you need one more player in the box. You just add a gap to the running game. And that changes the entire geometry, it changes the structure of how you're going to call your defense.

It gets you to predictable looks. And so you saw Lance have that effect on the running game. Rahim Moster was very effective when Lance was in there. Lance only pulled the ball three times to run, but the running game woke up when Lance was in there. And then when Gropo was out there, they were executing the passing game with no problems. They had rhythm,

even though they were kind of stead of, stepping in and stepping back out. It requires an extremely deft hand to do this, and it can become predictable, can become clear on tendency, what different quarterbacks mean. So it is still a change-up. It is not the meat and potatoes.

It is a side dish. With that said, it did work for a game, and it's certainly a very attractive way to get Trey Lance some real NFL regular season run before you maybe actually have to put them in there as a starter. I understand why this would be a real, really, really nice thing.

You get a sea legs under him. He scores a couple touchdowns and a couple of quarterback runs and he's feeling good when he eventually does have to start. And so I did not believe this could happen and I still don't,

but a little piece in these, like, yeah, let's do it. Two QV system, baby. So this was mine as well. Was it? That's awesome. I want to get to that. I do want to get to this quote

from Joe Flackard from 2013 about the Wildcat. Quote, I just think it makes look not like an NFL team. Thanks, Joe. Nora, 49ers, take it away. you know what else makes Joe Flacco not look like he's going to be a little team anyway. And it's Foo Manchu as well.

So yeah, to the exact same point as Ben, my other one was that platoon systems would not happen. And definitely the 49ers are, you know, case 1A there. I think Jimmy Garoppolo after doing that on Sunday against the Ravens, his quote was, it was weird at first just having to process the whole thing. But after being out on the field, it was fun. So Jimmy's on board. It seems like they've done it in practice critically, right? That they've been rotating both guys in with the starting offense.

So they did that not only, it was not just drive to drive, that they did that against the Raiders. They were doing that within drives where the starting linemen, all their starters were on the field. So I, you know, sometimes in preseason there's a little bit of a distinction between, okay, are they really rotating these guys or are they just switching ones and twos and everything. They were very thoroughly doing that with the ones there. I think even if you look at some other teams, look, like, I think we're all happy that the saints are rolling with James just to see

what that looks like. And given that he's clearly a better quarterback than Taysom Hill, Tassum's probably going to play a snap here or there at certain points. I don't know if you want to call that a platoon. I don't think a Denver platoon is happening in the truest sense, but I think that we will see Drew Locke at some point, maybe even Minchew in Philadelphia. So it's interesting. this was the type of thing that I, like Ben, always roll my eyes out and go, okay, when has it ever worked? But it does seem like we might legitimately see some teams

give it a shot this season. And as with Jimmy, I like some stuff that's weird at first and then you decide that it's fun eventually. So I'm all for it. That sound you hear is HR zooming in to make sure I don't ask Ben to imagine a Minshu platoon because it's a hostile work environment.

Yeah. What if we had two quarterbacks on the field that the defense wasn't scared of? What then? It's not like one. It's a golden three is that good either. It's a gold. I'll tell you this. Let flacco in the mix. Let flacco cook. Hey, uh, the Eagles won the Super Bowl like three and a half years ago. Yes. You read Doug Peterson's bug? Only makes my depression all the sharper. Ben, did you read Doug Peterson's book? Uh, what is it? Bed. Fearless. Fearless. Fearless.

Yeah. Fearless. I think I skimmed it. It wasn't bad. No, it's good book. Good head coach. Excited to see where he lands. Here's my next one, a lot more serious.

So I was under the impression that Deshawn Watson would not be traded this year. I thought it'd be put on the commissioner's exempt list and everything would be figured out after this season. I'm now putting that this. in the maybe pile because Charles Robinson had a very good threat over the weekend. The dolphins, he says, are the frontrunner and trade discussions. The Texans are asking for three first round picks and two second round picks. My personal belief is that if a team meets that asking price right now with no protections and gives up three first round picks on a player under serious investigation

where we don't know if he's going to be on the exempt list, we don't know with suspensions, that's football malpractice if that price is met. I think that I put that out on Twitter this weekend and there are a lot of people saying, whoa, this is this is buying low on a franchise quarterback, blah, blah, blah. And I understand why you would default to the football arguments, but, you know, teams have the right to do whatever they want. They can buy low, but I have the right to call them shameless or say you're acting like an

asshole if you are. And so if a team does that and they plow ahead, and act in a shameless manner like this because there's a franchise quarterback available when there's so many unknowns when the investigations are not closed, the NFL, which tends to take its time if we remember over the past couple of years with investigations, there's just a lot of unknowns. And if you're saying that you have inside info or whatever, fine, go ahead. I doubt you do.

I'm just saying any team that mortgages its future for a player under investigation like that deserves all the heat it's going to get. If it's if it's a lower price, that's a different discussion. If there are pick protections, that's a different discussion. But I'm just saying right now, in the in the grand scheme of things here,

if you're putting a package together for Deshaun Watson, I think that we can go ahead and never take you seriously the next time you talk about due diligence, culture, all that stuff. I'm not saying the dolphins are. I'm saying the Dolphins are the frontrunner. They probably, according to Charles Robinson, they probably inquired. The Texans have to, according to Albert Breer, would have to pay $10.5 million to Watson

if he's on the roster by Tuesday, which appears that that's going to happen. I just think that there's a lot that goes along with trading for Deshaun Watson right now. And the more I hear from reporters, from reading the tea leaves, all that stuff, it looks like there are teams that might be willing to take the risk. Nora, where are you on the Watson trade discussion? Yeah, I'm with you in that this just feels like an IQ test more than football machinations. Just given that if they, if they, I'm using the dolphins as an example, obviously because, you know, Charles Robinson is a great reporter and it seems like they would be the team more likely to do it than anybody else based on that reporting and also circumstances.

But not only, I think, first and foremost, do you question just like, at what point do you, at what point is this just not so bottom line all the time that you just block out literally any sort of human cost, culture cost, the types of things that you're inviting? I think you can also ask, what is the plan here, right? Because the dolphins have been so smart about collecting resources, right? they've had so many first round picks. But given that you would have to likely package a lot of those in any sort of deal for a quarterback who might not be able to play this year,

I'm assuming that if you do that, you're also giving up on Tua. You're not just in terms of being the future quarterback of the organization, but you might have to include Tua in the trade package. Then you're sort of, first of all, punting on this season where, you know, you already kind of opened the window. And the dolphins have gotten a lot of credit for opening their window ahead of schedule, which I think is totally warranted

based on what they'd been able to do and based on how good they've gotten that roster in a short period of time. It's just such a big thing to do that I think you have to ask, okay, not just how good of a player is this, but even when teams, even when there aren't serious questions,

about a player's legal situation in play like there are here, teams spend a lot of time talking and thinking about if we're taking a swing this massive, who are we inviting into our building? And I wonder what their answer to that would be in this case. And I wonder what their contingencies would be if he's not able to be on the field because you just start to wonder,

okay, is it worth it? If it just means that you can't, you're punting on this season completely, and then you just do not know what's happening. Because at a certain point, it's like you did such a good job amassing all that capital. Well, what are you going to do with it if this is the move? So I don't understand it at all. I don't really understand why anybody would do anything until there's more clarity here.

I just don't think that the lack of certainty is such a, such a con in this that if it costs that much, I mean, he's a really, really, really good quarterback. But I'm just not sure, even if you take out the sort of, you know, morality, is this the right thing to do? I'm not sure that the number of circumstances in which this helps your football team necessarily is that much longer than the number of circumstances in which it really doesn't. Yeah. I'm with you. And I want to be clear about something. I'm not specifically at all talking about the dolphins.

They've become an avatar for this because of the Robin Schner Report. This is any team. this is any team that puts a trade package together and tries to to take a huge chunk of the future and put it towards Watson. And I understand there are people this weekend are saying, well, the NFL has never been to moral business. I know that. I'm okay with vaguely NFL teams selling out for wins and losses. That's what the business is. But you're allowed to criticize those teams for doing that.

That's allowed. And I will be doing so. Ben, any thoughts on this? Yeah, right. The majority of the time in which NFL teams are selling out for wins and losses, there isn't a, and depending the results of the FBI investigation condition attached on that sellout. And the potential, potential, just from a football standpoint, if you want to put everything else aside just from football standpoint, he might miss significant time. Even if you just wanted to be Mr. Football, it's a, oh, we're just evaluating it's a football standpoint. Well, he may be missing significant time. Right. Right. I think what it boils down to to me is, right, the fact that there are some teams,

that are willing to trade for Deshaun Watson, that are going to do that investigation, do that due diligence, try to figure out that package, try to strike while the iron's hot. Like, none of that is surprising to me, unfortunately,

because as you've said, that's the reality of the NFL. It's not a good reality. I don't like it. I'm going to criticize it, but it is the reality. The fact that teams are willing to pull that trigger right now,

given where he is in his litigation, how little movement there's been, that's the part to me. That's just flabbergasting. There's no benefit to do. doing it at this at this time. There is, as no, like, the urgency to win the first eight games of the 2021 football season just simply don't come close to warranting making this decision at this time. There is no reason to do this, period, but there's certainly

no reason to feel like you have to expedite this process instead of letting it go through its course so that we can understand with fullness who Deshaun Watson is what he's done and whether not he's somebody that should be in the national football league. And so it is absurd that this is happening at this time. All right. We're going to do highlight rails now. We're going to go out on a much more positive note. Benjamin Solek,

what's something good that happened to you this week? Hit us with a recommendation. A lot of things. Honestly, the first thing that comes from I was watching you talk about James potentially being good after LASIC because that was pure unadulted joy. And I agree with you. It's not driving for 24 straight hours and getting,

checking your phone and seeing that Danny Kelly and I are arguing about Miami prospects. I will say my planned answer was, I drove home from eastern Pennsylvania to western Michigan, so about 10 and a half hours on the road, about 12 hours total. Stopped at my aunt's house. My aunt's got a garden the size of her house.

We left with a box full of like fresh tomatoes and peppers, jalapenos. We got like a head of cabbage and cucumber. Yeah, everybody should get an aunt and then that ant should have a garden. That's my recommendation because it's such a, it was such a happy thing to see a family member you haven't seen in such time and you love them and everything hung up with their dogs,

which was fun. But also it's just such a beautiful thing when you just have food growing at your house that you can just give to people. Like, that's just the coolest thing. And so my highlight of my weekend was certainly that. Shout out, TK, for having a great garden. That was incredible. That was the most earnest, just like pure recommendation I've ever heard.

My garden energy is peaking right now. Follow up Ben's family garden energy. You try to ban me. from recommending books, and you can't keep me down. You can't keep a good band down. That's called censorship, and it's bad, kids.

It is. It's book burning. It's banned books with Kevin Clark. Catcher in the Rye. I just finished Seth Wickersham's book. It's better to be feared. I don't think I'm allowed to talk about it.

I'm allowed to, like, say it, but I don't think I'm allowed to, like, do anything other than show the cover. It is one of the best hopeful books ever read. It is really, really, really good. And I tore through it. And that's not something I'm able to do a lot this time of year between the camp tour on the start of the season. It's basically my busiest time just because I'm writing a lot of the pieces I wrote. I started right on the road, all that stuff. I could not put it down. Good on you. Seth Wicker sham. I saw that peeking out during

Slow Newsday. And I was like, oh, dang, Kevin Scott's better to be fear. And Cal and Cal heard. I was showing it off. I was showing it off. I tried to. So I tried to. So I tried to. So I put the book behind me on Cowherd. And then I have two other friends named Josh Robinson and John Clegg who wrote a book called The Club a couple years ago about soccer. It's actually like it sells like hot cakes because it basically was the basis for a bunch of like the SEC stuff and whatever. It's been written about. But I tried to hook them up too. But my head is so literally huge that it blocked it out on television.

I literally, I can't empathize. Big heads are tough to deal with. This is a reality. Nora? All right. I've got two. I'll keep them quick. One.

So as established on this podcast, I recently moved. And I really liked my couch, but it was light green and it just didn't make sense with the overall aesthetic. I needed something lighter. It was just too much color. My old apartment in Boston had kind of like farmhousey yellow walls, which frankly we didn't love, but you know, can't choose everything. And thankfully, my new apartment just has like normal. white walls. The thing about the yellow walls is that it made it a little bit more forgiving on having a number of colors involved because it was just like, yeah, it's a colorful room.

That's what we're doing. All of a sudden, it's the backdrop is just stark white and it's like, what's going on here? I found out, but I really like the couch and I don't have to get a new couch, right? Like I moved it and done all this stuff. Found out I could just get a new cover for it. Super cheap. Swap it out. Looks like a brand new couch. I showed a my friend Sammy and she was like, when did you get a new couch? And I was like, I did not get a new couch. I just got new couch covers. So that was a real win for me. I'm really excited about that. The second part is that I have now officially moved all of my stuff, but I had to go back to Boston for the final clean out thing and got to pop into my old neighborhood bar, the sevens and said

goodbye to it. So shout out the sevens. I love you. I will miss you. All new. All new. All new. neighborhood bars on the Upper East Side. Lepenko TDN. Panera. There's a Panera up there, I think. There's actually, there's a really good LPQ up the street. Okay. You and my wife can have business meetings there.

All right. This has been the Oregon NFL show on the Ringer Podcast Network. Listen to Nora, Ben, Danny Hyfitz, and Caitlin are going to have a green room tomorrow around roster cuts. That'll be really exciting. I love green room. Maybe I'll pop in. Chop it up with you guys.

I'm excited about it. All right. We'll be back on Thursday. Bye, guys.