The Ringer NFL Show - Three Hypothetical Trades Before the Start of Training Camp

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Sheil and Diante turn on the trade machine and each provide three hypothetical trades that they’d like to see sometime between now and the trade deadline. Hosts: Sheil Kapadia and Diante Lee Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up? It's Ryan Rosillo. I'm the host of the Ryan Rissillo show on The Ringer and Spotify. We're a sports podcast. We sprinkling some other stuff. But here's the thing about our podcast. We work in sports and we still like sports. I know. Crazy, right? But we also like to balance it out a little bit. If I've read a book that I really like, we'll have the author on. We have people from the biggest TV shows, some of the biggest people in movies, writers, actors, all of it. And, of course, at the end of every single episode, 20 to 30 minutes on life advice, which is something. times great, and sometimes it isn't. But it's always worth listening to. So make sure you listen and follow the Ryan Rusillo Show on Spotify. Welcome to the Ringer NFL show, Sheal Kapadia, here, back from vacation. Well, I'm excited for this one because I feel like the universe has been

keeping us apart. I'm here with Deonté Lee. You know, I leave the athletic. He joins the athletic. You know, he joins the ringer. I take up taking my long vacation. They've tried to keep us apart, Deante, but no longer we're here to pod together finally, and I'm looking forward to it. Same here. I think if there was one thing that the ringer was lacking, it's Philadelphia Eagles fans representation. So it's good to be here with some like-minded folks. But no, things are good, man. I'm glad you're back from vacation and that we get to get going now before the season starts. There you go. Yeah, there's a training camp is on the horizon. But I feel like, you know, we had the news this year of Brandon Ayyuk, which you, Nora and Stephen, talked about,

but it did get our minds thinking a little bit. Could there still be some player movement this summer? You know, any self-respecting GM likes to talk about, no, no, the player, we're always trying to look for ways to get our roster better. Yeah, we get it. And so could we still see some trade? So that's the idea behind today's show. We're going to start with Brandon Ayu.

You can go over that a little bit more in detail now that we've had time to digest it. And they're going to come up with some other potential trades we could see at some point this summer. And listen, we know that the chances of these are not, you know, 50%, 75%, they're much lower. But it's a way to think about some players who maybe could get moved. And if we get that bombshell, that surprise sometime in August, maybe these are some players to keep an eye on. So let's just start with Iyuk, Deontay, you know, I think you had a great piece up on the ringer, which I was totally on board with basically saying that the 49ers need Brandon Ayyou. and a trade probably doesn't make sense.

And I think we're both probably on the same page that the most likely scenario is that he doesn't get moved at the same time when a player's unhappy and the player's not getting what he's wanted. There's always that one offer that could make a team sort of rethink its stance. So where are you with IYuk? Is there a scenario where you say,

all right, if he does get traded, maybe this is the scenario. And do you have a branded IUC fake trade to start us off with? So to me, like I kind of detailed in the piece, and like you said, I'm sure that you feel the same way. Because San Francisco has so much team control in this situation, there's really not much incentive for them to deal them, at least not right now. If they weren't going to do it ahead of the draft or around the draft and free agency, I think there's much less incentive to do it now. And then when you think about the price that's going to cost for a receiver of Brandon Ayuk's quality, from other teams perspective, I don't know if it makes the most sense to do it going into the season. because if I'm San Francisco, I'm not picking up the phone for less than what

AJ Brown was offered for, you know, it was traded for, if not more expensive, you know, because he is a premium player that you know you're going to be locking in for a long-term extension no matter where you deal them. So I kind of went back and I looked at other receivers that went for a first-round pick. That obviously was Brandon Cooks a couple of times, about a half decade ago, Percy Harvin before that. So over the last decade, I think what you see on average is that it costs you a first-round pick plus something between like pick 100 and 150 right so that's kind of the baseline I said and then looking

at teams where it would make sense with the trade plus the extension I think the Patriots and Chargers were two that I came up with going into 2025 and beyond where it makes a lot of sense and I think they will be willing to support with the draft capital to bring in a player of IUC's quality yeah I think your compensation is right on you know you mentioned AJ Brown that was the first and a third Tyree kill that was a wild trade when I looked it up I'm like oh shoot I That was five picks. I got, forgot about that.

Devante Adams was the first and a second. The first Stefan dig straight. That was a first, first, and then other picks. And, you know, I wouldn't put Brandon I.

you quite in like the Devante Adams, Tyreekill, AJ Brown category, but maybe the next tier down. And he's got some, like, things really working for him. You know,

you went over the stats in your piece. Once again, everyone should check that out. But just last two seasons, 11th in receiving yards, 10th in yards per reception. I think people probably, that's surprised me. I was like, who's averaging over 15 yards per reception?

Like, this guy's making plays downfield, ninth in yards per route run. And so if you are a team in need of a wide receiver, guys who are entering their age 26th season with that type of production, they just don't like become available very often. I think that's why a lot of the compensation has been very high. So like I what I do, I don't know what your process is. I just go like NFL stand.

in my head. Right. This team, no. This team. Same. You could come up with a pretty long list and I settled on a team that you just mentioned. So let me give you my fake trade and you could tell me, you know, who says no to this one. So when I was doing this, I felt like you did.

The Niners are trying to win the Super Bowl this year. It does not make sense to trade your leading wide receiver when you are months away competing for a Super Bowl. So I was like, the price has to be right. And so I went to Los Angeles, and I went to the Chargers. And what if the Chargers offered the Niners a 2025 first and let's say Joey Bosa in that trade? So the Niners are saying, we're not traded in for future draft. We're trying to win a Super Bowl now. And, you know, the Chargers say, oh, wait, we got some players who might be able to help you now. Joey Bosa obviously has been a injured has played in 14 games the past two seasons, but totally restructured his deal this offseason.

So right now he's basically on a one year, $8 million deal. And you have him under contract at a low price for 2025 if you want him, but 2025 is not guaranteed. So if you say, you know what, let's try it out for one year. If you can't stay healthy, if he's not productive, whatever, we don't need to hold on to him. But you do have that optionality, which teams covet. So he's entering his age 29 season. We all know when he's healthy, he can. He can. can still play. We all know how the Niners operate. You can't give them enough defensive linemen that they want everything to start with that pass rush. So you say, hey, John Lynch, Kyle Shanahan, we're going to take this issue off your hands. We're going to give you a player you can use now

as you try to beat Patrick Mahomes and whoever else. And we're giving you a 2025 first. Are you really going to hang up the phone on us for that one? So what do you think? Is there, is that a hard note from the Niners? Is that an easy? Yes. And the Chargers aren't doing that. Where would you land? on that type of proposed deal? I think the final answer is no, but I think John Lynch is definitely going to put the phone down and look at Kyle and Chris Casaric and say, hey, I don't know how much better this gets than this, right? If we're really trying to win a championship, getting a first round pick where we can maybe, you know, make other moves to get a receiver back in the building, get a young receiver back in the building, and you have another pass rusher. And obviously,

we know not only do they value that position, but that's something they've been hunting for in the top 100 over the last couple of drafts, right? You didn't. really hit with Drake Jackson, though I do think he'll be a nice piece of the rotation going forward. He's clearly not the secondary rusher they thought they might have right out the bat to play opposite of Nick Bosa. They have Leonard Floyd in the door, but he's more of a rental, right? That's just checking a box because you need a player there to play opposite of Nick Bosa. I think a guy like Joey, if he's going to leave Los Angeles, it will probably be to go to go play with his brother, right? When you hear about the way he talks about playing for the

Chargers wanted to retire there, I think if there's any other place that he would go, it would be to play with his brother and he would be cost controlled, which is a nice touch. So I think I don't know if Joey Bowson now, given the injury history and the fact that if you're trading for him, you probably would like to keep him a little bit longer. And I don't know if he's going to go cost controlled again, the way that he is for this upcoming season. I think the ultimate answer is no, but that's a pretty compelling one if you're handing back a veteran.

And from the Chargers perspective, I was thinking about it. Like, again, it's hard to find a wide receiver in their mid-term. 20s who is proven. You can obviously take shots in the draft. We know that they did that with Ladd-McConkie. But man, now you're saying, all right, Ladd-McConkie, and you're adding Brandon Ayuk to that, a guy who can grow with Justin Herbert and you can, you know, you're going have to pay him. Yeah, $28, $29, $30 million per year. But you kind of know what you're getting there with him. And you say, you know what, Bosa, yeah, he restructured and we lose some cash there. That's the owner's problem. See, Deontadam, care, the owner can they can spend cash. They're going to be

okay. I'm not worried about that. From a football. perspective, you say, you brought in Jesse Minter, you kind of have to do more with less with this defense. You know, that's going to take some time. But man, why not? That offense, I mean, if Joe Alt comes in and plays well and you got Rayshon Slater and you got Herbert and now you add a wide receiver, all of a sudden you might be able to make noise right away and quicken that turnaround. If you're in that room with Jim Harbaugh and Joe Ortiz and they're saying, this is what's on the table. Are you on board with doing a deal like that? Or do you say, let's just stay patient. and not kind of go overboard with a deal like this.

Well, it comes back to what you said at the top of this conversation, right, which is that players like Brandon and I, you don't just come readily available, right? And if they are hitting free agency, now you're competing with the rest of the market. So if you could get a guy in that you know, hey, even if we don't land on an extension right now, or franchise tag you, let's come back to the table when maybe the wide receiver market isn't as crazy in one particular offseason the way that it was this year with AJ Brown getting his restructured deal. you have Jalenwater making $28 million a year. You have them on Ross St. Brown making $30 million a year.

I can understand why maybe you don't want to give an extension right this second, but you get a guy in team controlled and you know that you're probably going to want to pay him to pair with your franchise quarterback. And if you look at how Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh have worked before, they want to have an ex-receiver that they can rely on, right? When it was Greg Roman and Buffalo, it was Sammy Watkins, right? And Brandon and I, Yuka Sammy Watkins are not the same kind of receiver, but when you think about that explosive downfield part of the game, they both kind of check that box.

Michael Crabtree in San Francisco, not an explosive receiver, but a solid route runner that they could kind of feed targets to. Brandon, I, you can kind of play both roles. And that's one of the things that makes them a unique receiver. I like that for them, especially because you know at a certain point, you're going to be facing the reality that Kaleo, Mac, Joey Bosa, these guys are aging. The reason why you restructured the deals the way you did was to acknowledge that they're aging and that you're going to have to turn a new leaf eventually. So I think if you can rip that band-aid off and it's not just, hey, we're letting a guy walk that's been here for a decade. It's we're bringing back another guy that's going to be in his prime years whose timeline matches with our franchise receiver.

That's going to speed, I think, speed up that process of getting the offense where they want to get it to eventually. So I like that for L.A. for sure. There you go. Chargers make the call. You know, let's at least let John, like Deonti said, let's at least let John Lynch and Kyle have the conversation. I was trying to think of the scenario where IUC actually does get traded. And again, I think we both think if you're a Niners fan listening to this going, shut up, he's not going anywhere. I understand.

We both agree that he's probably not going anywhere. I feel like Deonté would have to be something like, you know, Ricky, maybe Ayuk does the old hold in where he's showing up at practice but not participating. And Ricky Pearsall is, you know, more advanced than they thought he was going to be. And they're saying, shoot, we're going to. And then a team comes in with like a big, offer, like all those things would have to come together, right? Is that the scenario where you think, even if it's under whatever, 10% that it actually happens?

That would have to be it. Ricky Piersall would have to step in the door and instantly be an unguardable piece at wide receiver for, I think, then they even entertain the idea of Leonard Brand and I. You go because it's not just that he's productive, right? They've invested so much of this offense into developing him into an X receiver. To hand that away in prime years, that would be really, really tough. And, you know, this is something I wanted to acknowledge in the piece as well. So all this really might be much to do about nothing, right?

When you look at how San Francisco approaches extensions for their franchise building blocks, a lot of times it's later in the training camp. This is just something that they kind of have the benefit of doing. And I think, you know, with Brock Prady's extension coming down the pipe, if they're serious about him being a long-term option, there's no way in the world. I'm entertaining, giving away Brandon I, you especially not for draft picks, and I know I want to go win a championship right, right now. So it would take a godfather offer.

It would take the Patriot saying, hey, Drake May, you look really good in training camp. Before we get to week one of the season, we're going to go put a first plus maybe a second on the table. You know, I really kind of blow any other offers out of the water, you know, with some additional maybe day three draft compensation to go get a Brandon I. Because we want to get that guy a number one receiver right now. And we know we can take our time with the rest of this rebuilt because the defense is already in a stable position. So that's the only other situation I can see where it makes sense. Teams like Washington, who is obviously being doing a lot of posture. with Brandon Iute, I think that's out of the question because if I'm San Francisco,

I'm going to ask for heaven and earth for you to get the guy. I'm going to make you prove that you really want him. I think if the Giants didn't hand that insane contract to Daniel Jones and kind of maxed out their cap sheet over the next couple of years, like they're not really in a comfortable position to move on from him and take on a dead cap while you're paying a receiver high level money given the fact that they're paying Andrew Thomas. They're paying some of their other high level role players. And the same exists for another team I considered in the Colts, right?

I think the Colts have spent a lot of money on some high quality role players. Don't get me wrong, but I don't know if it makes the most sense, even with having a young quarterback in Anthony Richardson, to part with more draft capital for another guy you're going to have to pay big bucks market value to. So it's really a tough spot for Brandon I, you're great. You're just going to use your hold in and try to make them as uncomfortable as possible and hope they come back to the table with a better offer than 26 to 27 million per year for you at receiving.

Yeah, I think the most likely scenario, as I was thinking about, is he does the hold in, He tries to pressure him without getting dinged. Because if you don't show up at all, then you're getting dinged in the wallet, which you don't want to do that. So if you show up, you're not getting fined, but you're letting it be known that you're still not happy. And to your point, I think the most likely scenarios, it starts like that. And then eventually they find a way to hammer out a deal done before the season. You mentioned it. The Niners have done this with other star players.

And I can't imagine that it's like a huge. Maybe it is. I don't know for sure. but I feel like if you're looking at recent wide receiver contracts, you know, A.J. Brown, Amon Ra, St. Brown, and Tyree Kill all got 30 million or higher. I would imagine if you're Ayup, you're saying, I would like $30 million dollars per year. And if you're the Niners, you're probably saying, well, Jalen Waddle got $28 million and DeVante Smith got $25 million. Like there, it could be the difference between 27 and $28 million and $30 million, which, you know, for me and you, $2 million.

And yeah, I'm having lots of conversations. Absolutely. I'm not the one cutting the check. So this means it makes no difference to me. That's right. That's the owner's problem. That's not our problem. But for them, it feels like as time goes on, maybe you can find a way to get a deal done there.

All right. Did we miss anything else on on IUC or are we ready to move on to some other trade proposals? I think I'm ready to do it. Okay. Let's get to the next one. Give me your next one. What are you got? So we went over Ayuk.

This was harder. I don't know how you felt about. it when we first had the idea. I'm like, oh, I love doing this. And then I'm going through and I'm like, man, it's kind of tough to identify a lot of players here. I came up with a couple eventually, but I'm curious, who do you have as your second maybe potential trade that could happen or that you would like to see this summer? It's one I'd be interested in. I don't know, I don't know if we'd get it this summer as much as just watching maybe how the season plays out. This might be a conversation that comes up. I would say if Las Vegas really just looks

adrift midway through this year. It's clear that this is going to be a long, long-term rebuild. I know that they wouldn't want to let go of this guy because I think he personifies a lot of what's good in this organization. But I think if Max Crosby came in and said, hey, I play a lot. You put a lot of tread on these tires in my young years. I've been on the field all the time. I want an opportunity to go win. I would like to see what team would be willing to part with the first rounder to go get a Max Crosby. That would be one that's interested to me. That's a great one. You pulled the old Ropa Dope on me. I thought you were going Devante Adams. Then when you said personified the organization, I'm like, wait a minute, is he throwing a curveball my way?

Yeah, I would just like to see Max Crosby play in like playoff games in meaningful games. He's such a fun player. You mention it. Does not come off the field. I mean, his pro football reference page is amazing, Deontay. 95% of the snaps for a defensive end, an edge player in the. year 2024. I mean, it's wild. 96% of the snaps in 2022 has not missed a game the past three seasons. He's one of these younger than you think type players.

He's entering his age 27 season, consistently productive. Obviously, we know he's a great story, kind of what he overcame early in his career, to where he is now. So that is a good one. And the Raiders are an interesting team because it sort of feels like every year internally, they think maybe they're a step above what you and I or other people might think they are where it always feels like they're looking to compete, which, listen, there's something to be said for that, always trying to win games, but they generally don't get there.

They generally underachieve. Man, you said for, I wonder what the price would be, Deonté, because I mean, that is, again, age 27 season, durable, productive edge. If you're the Raiders, like, this is the kind of. guy you're like regardless of what we're thinking three to five years this guy can be a part of our core um i'm thinking definitely a first and then some maybe it's a first on a terrible team where you feel like maybe this is our path to a quarterback um next next season but yeah it would have to be a lot huh for for max crosby i would think i mean if i'm los Vegas why would i part with them for less than a first

right because you know he's been dependable he's durable he doesn't miss he clearly has a high work ethic right and he's a high level player it's not just that he's a try hard This is a legit guy who's on the fringe of being an all pro year in year out because he's always on the field because he's a high level run defender and he's done so much in a pass rush game as well. So I would say now you're kind of looking at to your point, rebuilding teams, teams that are not very good that want to get instant production from the edge position. Washington will be a team that I look at. When you look at their edge depth chart, there's really nothing there that you feel good about. Arizona is another team that I think is always kind of drafting it premium position. on the defensive line and they could maybe part with an early pick, especially if the

offense looks good with Marvin Harrison Jr. and Kyler Murray gives you another healthy year, healthy and productive year. I could see those teams being rebuilders that might give up a first round pick to try to fast track their development on the defensive side of the ball. Yeah, you know what you just had me Googling, Deontay, was Khalil Mack trade terms. Not this recent trade, the initial trade, the Raiders bears one, because that's what I'm kind of looking at, you know, at that time, Max Crosby, I would say not quite the player. Cleal Mac was at that time. But still, that trade was two first, a third, and a sixth.

I think it would have to be, I don't know if it's multiple first. It's definitely a first and something else. A first and a two. I think I want and a two. You can have a conversation around that. Pick up the phone, right? Yeah, I'm with you. I was just looking at his contract, very easy.

He's under contract for the next three years at a total of around $64 million. So that's what, around $21 million per year, which is a team credit. That's nice. That's nice. Yeah. That's very good value for a guy that's on the field like that. So you said, all right, Washington. Yeah, I'm going.

I mean, listen, if he were available, they would really be able to start a legit bidding war. And again, I think it would have to be, if they're looking at it saying, how do we solve our quarterback problem long term? If they're just like, we can't do this at quarterback anymore, we need high draft picks, we need to be able to make a move. what pieces do we have to make that move? It's probably, you know, with Crosby and Devante Adams, you have two pieces where you could accumulate some draft capital.

So that's an interesting. If you're a Raiders fan, you're probably like, get out of here. I'm getting yelled at for that. Austin is definitely going to text my phone when he hears this. What's some not nice things to say. Yeah, you know, he's the only player, you know, we've really liked on our team for this degree. He's young, he's productive.

He wants to be here. He's got the cool Instagram live videos when they win games. at the end of the season. We're not giving up on this guy. So, yeah, but that's an interesting one for sure. Just because when you look at teams who we don't think are going to be great and you look at their best players,

I mean, those are kind of the teams you sometimes have to look at. All right, let's take a break. We'll come back. I will give you my second trade proposal. All right, we're back on the ringer NFL show. Shield Capati here with Deonté Lee. All right, Deonté, let me paint you a little picture here.

Okay, then now I'm going back to the Niners. I know we're probably nine or out, but that's what happens when a wide receiver makes a trade request. And they're sitting there, John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, and they're saying, and John Lynch walks into Kyle Shanahan's office and he says, Kyle, next two years, if you could only have one, Brandon Ayuk or Debo Samuel, which one would you rather have? Deonti, what do you think? How does Kyle Shanhan answer that question? I think the answer is Iuke. Okay. And I actually, I think that, I don't think that he ruminates over that for very long. I think he can look and say, we can find other ways to get production over the middle of the field from cheaper guys.

We don't have to pay $23 million. If we're going to have a $25 plus million receiver on the field at all times, I'd rather it be Brandon Aye. That's how I feel. And I think that's how Kyle Shanahan am. I agree with you. I agree with you. And so I think, you know, maybe the Steelers make a call and say, hey, John, Ayyuk, you know, we saw the recent rumors to see. and they say, well, he might not be, but we got another player who, you know,

maybe he sends him a little Photoshop, a Debo in the Steelers uniform and said, yeah, just in case, if you were, we're not shopping him, you know, we don't want to trade this guy, but just in case you were thinking of making an offer, he might potentially be available. And then, you know, maybe it's Omar Khan goes back to Mike Tomlin. I mean, Mike Tom, what player would embody like a Mike Tomlin team more than Debo Sam. Yeah. I mean, come on. I can just picture it.

All right. You're selling me. Yeah. I mean, it would be incredible. So the Steelers need playmakers. You know, they've got George Pickens. You look at the rest of their wide receiver depth chart after they traded Deontay Johnson. It's Van Jefferson.

It's Roman Wilson. It's Kwez Watkins. They're really throwing a bunch of darts and saying hopefully one of these actually hit. And so you got Arthur Smith. You've got Mike Tomlin. You say, all right, Debo Samuel. It's a one-year commitment for $20 million. That's not the end of the world.

He's got no guaranteed money beyond this season. But again, he is under contract in 2025. So if it works out, we can hold on to them. And it's kind of a two-year agreement. And we can figure it out after that. So that's the Steelers case here. The Niners is kind of what we just talked about. Maybe they're saying we'd rather have IU.

We don't want to invest. I think if they pay IU can keep Debo. You're talking about paying two of what the top like 11 highest paid wide receivers on a team that already has Christian McCaffrey and George Kittle and the best offensive mind in the NFL. It's a weird use of resources. Right. contract is coming, right? There's a chance that you're going to have to pay market value for a quarterback. That's probably not a top tier guy either. That's a lot of investment. And you're paying a Nick Bosa and you're paying a Fred Warren. It gets really, really tight at a certain

point. Yeah. So maybe they say, all right, maybe we got to think ahead here. And Debo, Samuel's got a lot of wear and tear on him. He's got a lot of miles on him. He, again, he's probably at this time next year, he could be the guy saying, I want a new contract now before I show up to training camp. Let's get ahead of that. Let's invest the money in Brandon Ayyuk. We're going to be fine there. And let's get something for Debo Samuel. So this was hard compensation, Deonti, for me to come up with when I did the proposed trade.

So here's what I came up with. You tell me if I'm too light, too heavy on one end or the other. But how about the Steelers send a conditional second that can turn into a first if Debo Samuel has 1,200 yards from scrimmage? Because they're saying, Arthor Smith is going to do all that non-stop. with him, you know, that you did. So it's not just receiving yards. It's yards from scrimmage. If he gets 1,200 yards from scrimmage, the Steelers say, all right, that's going to be a big time year. We'll make it a first, not just a second. Who says no to that deal? Steelers or Niners?

I mean, if I'm Omar Khan, I'm coming in an office, like, are you guys insane asking for giving up a first, a potential first for this guy? I think, I think if the conversation is two-toes or a two and a three, that's a little bit more comfortable from Pittsburgh's perspective. Obviously, if I'm Kyle Shanahan, then yeah, again, we're trying to pry this championship window open for as long as possible. So an extra one will go a long way towards retooling this offensive line, which we know is coming whenever Trent Williams walks away or he hits the cliff. So there's a lot that they have to consider if they're going to continue to be a contender, both on the offensive line and on the defensive side of the ball. So I like the conditional second from San Francisco's perspective. I think that's enough to make them say, we'll pull the sugar on this now.

And maybe we make Ricky Pierceall, our inside, you know, our inside between the numbers worker and leave Brandon Ayuk on the outside. If I'm Pittsburgh, a one is a hefty price for a guy. But we know we got to come right back to the table after 2025. And he's going to want $26, $27, $28 million plus per year. Yeah, he's such a tough one because I think we all probably agree that he's one of the most fun players in the NF. NFL to watch and what he does. Other people cannot replicate that. At the same time, if I were a team,

I would be a little nervous about like when the wheels fall off for a guy who has played this physical, a brand of football for so long, like when it goes, it might go pretty quickly here. Actually, when I was coming up with the condition, Deonti, I was looking at it and trying to come up with the right yardage number. And he's only had, you know, I said,

1,200 yards from scrimmage. He's done that once total in his career. You know, there's been some injuries there. There have been some other issues. And so we all love watching him. We know what he can do. But I was trying to thread the needle between something that's good enough that the Niners say in a Super Bowl season will do this. And something that the Steelers would say, all right, it's a lot.

But still, it's worth doing here for Debo Samuel. I think the interesting conversation to have with Debo, not only is the cliff, but it's the concerns I think that have existed with him throughout his career. right, which is that when you're not manufacturing touches for him, is that a guy that's going to separate for you on passing downs against tight coverage? And that's something he struggled with throughout his career. I think the Super Bowl obviously was the most blatant and obvious example of him really struggling in the middle of the field against physical tight coverage. But I would have that question if I'm Pittsburgh, right? Is are we trading for a guy that we have to guarantee is going to get the ball on jet sweeps and screens for us to feel comfortable

that he's going to have the effect on the game that we want him to. I think he would fit well in Pittsburgh because you have a George Pickens, who was a ball winner on the outside, because they've done so much to try to retool this offensive line. And I think that Arthur Smith is going to be able to focus on getting back to what he does best, which is getting in the heavy personnel sets, using the threat of the run to open up the middle of the field in the passing game. I don't know if Russell Wilson is going to fit in Arthur Smith offense.

We still got some things to figure out with that. But I do like using him as a number two. My question is how quickly is that drop off for him when the tread really starts to add up and going to a number two receiver to a number three receiver? And if that's the case, is it worth what you're going to have to pay him in the future? Yeah, no, it's a good point. I think if it were another team even, you would be like, you definitely like, be careful now. You're coming from a Kyle Shanahan offense to whoever we've got calling plays.

And I know, you know, every coordinator thinks they can do it at that level of a Shanahan. But some of them, yeah, it might just be, he wouldn't fit. They don't know how to do it. It's looking ugly. He's unhappy. They're unhappy. Fans are unhappy. Everyone, I think Steelers is one.

I was like, I don't know. Yeah, I could see it work. And he would get those touches. You know, he wants the ball. They need people. They need playmakers. And so he was one I thought of there. All right.

We'll take one more quick break. We come back. Get to our final trade proposals. All right. Back on the ringer NFL show. All right, Deontae, what do you got? What's number three for us? this one might be the spiciest.

I think this will be the most interesting conversation. And I didn't even really have a team for this. I kind of wanted to open up the conversation just to see what teams would even be in the hunt for this. I look at Denver and I look at their quarterback room and I say there's a legitimate chance that Zach Wilson could be the starting quarterback for this team based on the quality of quarterback play there between Bowdox and Jared Stidham. They might be the worst team in the NFL. What if Patrick Sartan does their get out of jail free card?

what would it cost to get an all pro corner that's still on his rookie deal? And that's where it gets really true. I think that that's a really valuable contract and player to go after. I know that that's probably going to net them back some high draft compensation. I'm still kind of hung up in the air between what it's actually going to cost and what teams would be in the hunt for. What teams wouldn't be in the hunt form is actually probably the better question to ask and how much it's going to cost because he only makes $5 million this season.

and you know that you've got some team control still around the corner. Yeah. Well, that is a spicy one. I love it. Yeah, that's, I mean, he's, you know, under contract, like you mentioned, for 2024. And then you got the fifth year option in 2025. I did my trade value rankings last summer where I just look at every player in the NFL who would bring the most back, you know, and then kind of go down on the list. And I had him number 14 in the entire.

entire NFL and keep in mind, you know, quarterbacks make up pretty much most of the top 10 there. And then you got a Michael Parsons and a Miles Garrett and some guys like that. And then right after that, I had Patrick Sertan and Sauce Gardner. The number of defensive players who I think would get two first round picks in a trade is pretty short. I think he's on that list, though, right? 24 years old, shut down, corner, scheme versatile. There's no projection here. You've seen the film.

He's maybe the best corner in the NFL right now. Yeah, I think you probably could get two first round picks. Do you do certain your number one corner in the NFL? I don't know if it's something you sit up at night and do cornerback rankings or not. But I'm just eased in the conversation. I almost waffle on this based on who I'm watching on Sunday, right? Like if I'm watching the Broncos or midweek, if I'm prepping for the week and I'm watching the Broncos, it's it's Patrick Certan. If I'm watching the Jets throughout the week, it's Sauce Gardner.

It's really, you know, six in one hand, half dozen in the other. It's really hard to parse it. And they both do so much of the same things well that you kind of can't go wrong in either direction. Yeah, I had them back to back in the trade value column. I had sauce 13 and I had CERTAN 14. And as I was thinking about what am I going to do this summer, I'm like, I might flip flop them. Maybe I just flip flop them every year, you know, and that way. That's the most inoffensive thing you can do. Yeah, it's all the same. They're both 13. 13 and half. Yeah, take the average at the end of five years of the trade value column.

All right. So I love that one for Sertan. So the thinking for the Broncos would be our roster stinks. We don't have a lot of avenues to improve it. Yes, we love Sartan. But if we can get multiple bites at the apple with multiple first round picks and maybe something else, do we consider it? And then there's the other side of it where someone in the room like me would say to first round,

first round pick, we would be hoping to get a player as good as Patrick Sturton. Don't do that. Exactly. What are you crazy? So, but man, the market for him would be real interesting. I mean, you mentioned, well, now it probably would have made it. But I know around draft time, Eagles fans were like, you know, is Patrick Sturtain, would he be a guy who's available?

But, man, you could go team after team. Like, most of them, the majority of teams need a number one corner. And if you're telling me, the guy is 24 years old and on a rookie contract, yes, That makes it even more exciting. So I'm doing the exercise now. So I would say, yeah, you always have to think about a team

that values the corner too, right? That's the other hard part. Yeah, I was like, if I'm Minnesota, we have a quarterback on a rookie deal. Yeah. We've already paid Justin Jefferson.

So there's, there's a window for us to spend a bit more before we really have to think about our pocketbooks getting tight. I would part with two first. We've already brought, like I said, we brought in the quarterback.

We know the head coach is stable. The offense looks good. We have our star offensive player. already. That one, I might, I might be able to convince my GM if I'm the head coached and if Patrick Sartan is available, that that's something that's going to change, that's going to change the tenor of this franchise. And that keeps them competitive in the NFC North, which is probably going to be the biggest bloodbath and football this upcoming year. Ryan Flores wouldn't play one snap, but too deep next year, right? If Patrick Sertan is...

At all. Oh, we're getting cover zero. He doesn't anyway. That cover zero rate is going to set some records in the NFL. That's a great one. I mean, I'm looking because then if you're the Vikings, you say, now it doesn't mean it's all going to work out, but you say we've invested in a young quarterback, like you mentioned, young wide receiver. You've got two good offensive tackles. You signed Jonathan Granard as a young edge rusher. He's in what, his mid to late 20s in free agency. And now you're adding a corner.

So I always like to look at the premium positions. What is the state of your premium positions? Are they old? Are they young? Are they good? Are they bad? Are they durable? and that would put them in a nice spot.

Again, if JJ McCarthy is not that good, then it's not going to matter. But the idea of it, if you're the Vikings, would make a lot of sense. So that's a great one. Patrick, Sir Tan, to the Vikings, let's say, yeah, let's say two first round picks. We haven't, when's the last two first round? Was it Jamal Adams? Was that probably the last one? I think Adams is the last one.

Yeah, and especially for a defensive player. Yeah, I think it was the last one we've got. So this would be like the Jalen Ramsey. Right. this this generation's version of the Jalen Ramsey trade. So I like that one. All right. Now I'm ending with a whimper.

I should have we should have ended with that one. I'm embarrassed. Mine's like so now I'm looking at it. It's so boring my last one. But you know what? I got to do it because we signed up for three each. I'm going to New England and I'm looking at Matthew Judon. And I'm looking at where the Patriots are as a franchise.

I've got Matthew Judon returning to Charm City. to the Baltimore Ravens for you can rip me on this for the compensation because I had a little trouble with this. I had a third round pick Ravens sent to the Patriots for Matthew Judon. So from the Ravens, I think it's pretty easy to understand why they would do this. They lost Debian Clowny in free agency. They are not deep at that position. Now, it feels like we say that every summer and they figure it out and they have a top five defense. And it's like, why were you guys worried about this again in August? So I get that. We've got Kyle Van Noi, Odafoe, David OJabo, and rookie Adisa Isaac as their edge group right now.

So again, it's very thin. That's an unproven group right there. Matthew Judon played there before. Very affordable. He's got one year left at $6.5 million. That's it. So the Ravens, it's not like, you know, the cap. You're not paying a fortune for Matthew Judon.

You know him. He's been in your building before. He gives you some pass rush juice. You're trying to win a Super Bowl. So you're saying, show, why would the Patriots do this? So here's the case. And I don't know that I totally agree with this. So I want to hear what you think.

But this is the case, at least. It's that Matthew Judon's entering his age 32 season. The Patriots over under win total is what? Like five games or something. I mean, Vegas has them as one of the worst teams in the NFL. Judon's entering the final year of his deal. It's not like this is going to be a core piece for you for the next three seasons. I mean, he's going to be a free agent after the year.

So you say, you know what? We're going to need draft capital to build this roster around Drake May. And Judon wants a new deal as it is. There's been some, you know, murmurs of that in New England. And so you say, let's just get ahead of it. Let's take the third round pick rather than lose him for nothing after the season. We want to have a good defense, but it's not the end of the world. We're not competing for a Super Bowl right now.

So what do you think? Who says yes? Who says no? Raven's a third round pick to the Patriots for Matthew. you, Judeon. I think you're too hard on yourself. I think there are so many ways where this matches up in aligns with the way that both teams would operate, right? You've got an aging veteran who's detached from the timeline, right? So that automatically, I think that automatically makes it feasible on New England's part. You're sending them to Baltimore, which is a team that

loves veteran edge players, right? They want instant production, guys that are dependable. And the way that they play defense, you know that they don't put a premium on having a guy that's going to get you 14 sex. They just want stable pressure production, right? So I think that that makes a lot of sense. And then because its cost is so low, you don't have to, the asking price is not so big when you consider what he costs versus what he's going to bring. So a third round pick, I think would be a really good, you know, a really good exchange for a player like that. I can see that making both sides happy. That would be a really good trade deadline week deal to make, right? Where Baltimore is maybe one piece away on the defense. You missed you Davey and Clowny.

things look good. It's not the same without the best defensive player caller in football, Mike McDonald, not having Jadavia and Clowny there. I think that I could see that making a lot of sense for Baltimore. And that would probably be a pretty seamless transition to bring him back to a place where he was playing some of his best football in the first place. All right, there you go. I mean, you're pumping me up.

Now I'm feeling good. I'm feeling kind of. I'm setting the over under, you know, we had six projected trades. 0.5. Can we get one? Can we hit on one of these between down? And you know what, Deonti, I'm not even just giving us between now and week one. Let's give us from now until the season trade deadline.

Because, you know, one of these, if the Patriots are 0 and 6 or something, then maybe, all right, Matthew Judon's going. So we're going to give ourselves a little more wiggle room over under 0.5. We want to get one of these right between now and the middle of the season. All right. That was a lot of fun. I feel like Deonti, next time we're potting next week, there's going to be football stuff happening. Are you ready? Are you ready for camps?

and playoff predictions and MVP sleepers and under the radar names to watch. Are you prepared for the 2024 season or could you use like another week or till? I don't think you're ever prepared. I think there's that conflicted feeling right when you work in this profession where it's like, all right, it's been a long off season. I'm kind of ready to get back in the swing of things. And then you're staring at your credential requests and you're thinking about the training camps. You're thinking about the stories that you're going to be pigeons like,

oh, man, we're back in it. We're back in it. And it's going to be nose to the grindstone until next. next spring right so i think i'm ready for it i'm ready for it i'm excited for it this is going to be a really interesting year right there are a bunch of storylines that we have no idea how how they're going to play out quite yet but it's going to be a grind and i'm looking forward to it maybe do gritted teeth is what i'll say yeah that you're right it's like you get excited for you know like uh like week one and the beginning and i love all the preseason stuff i love the training i love training

I love training camp. I love trying to figure out, hey, everyone's high on this team. I'm going to tell you why they're going to stay or vice versa, finding the under the radar. It's like week eight or nine when you're like, all right, okay. Let's just get to the end of the season. No, no, it's going to be a very fun. We got like two months now before the start of the season. That's going to be a lot of fun.

It's been a pleasure to pot for the first time with the next member of the Ringer family, Deont. Like I told him before, he's been very prolific. So I would tell you where to check him out, but he's probably going to have like three new podcasts and two new columns up by the time you listen to this. So you'll know where to find Deontes work on the ringer.com and on the podcast network.

Thanks to Deontay. Thanks to producer Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to additional production supervision, Connor and Evans in Arjuna, Romgo-Paul. We'll be back soon next time on The Ringer NFL show.