The Ringer NFL Show - Thursday Thunder Dome | The Island

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Island’! Each week a guest tries to persuade Nora Princiotti to agree with an argument they feel strongly about. This week’s guest is The Ringer’s Rodger Sherman, who came up with a comprehensive plan to improve ‘Thursday Night Football.’ Will Nora join him on the island, or sail elsewhere? Host: Nora Princiotti Guest: Rodger Sherman Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 Goals. It's out now on the Ringer Podcast Network, and we're having so much fun. I'm Nora Pintziati and welcome to the island.

We've got another first-time guest this week on the island. It is Roger Sherman. Roger, hello. Hey, we were at the NFL meetings together yesterday. Literally yesterday. We're recording this on Wednesday morning. Roger and I saw each other probably 10 hours ago. And I refused to give you by take.

I refuse to give you by island take because I want to hit you full force with it. So we spent many hours in downtown Manhattan. hanging out, doing some, some hanging out in a hotel lobby, and then we got to have a little team dinner. Roger and I discussed the fact that he was coming on the island today. I know we're talking about Thursday night football, but he patently refused to tell me what the take was going to be. So Roger, would you like to lay it on all of us for the very first time now? I keep seeing people saying, you know, obviously this Thursday night football has been bad. We need to get rid of Thursday night football.

Disagree. We don't need to get rid of Thursday night football. We need to change Thursday night football. We need to make Thursday night football into the NFL's version of Matchen. Do you know of Maxion? Do you love Maxion? Have you heard of Macon? Coach, you said you listen to everybody, but you never really listen to me.

I tried to give my input and it fell on deaf ears, so go along. Heard of, yes. I'm not a regular consumer. Explain to the people. We'll get into it eventually. But Macchin is a lovely thing that a conference, the mid-American conference, one of the less popular college football conferences invented around the mid-2000s when Ben Rathlisberger was at Miami of Ohio, they realized, you know,

people aren't really watching our games when they're like the 11th most important game on a Saturday, you know, buried on like ESPN8, the Ocho. We are going to play our games on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. and it's sort of developed a little bit of a cult following. These teams are putting up 50, 40 points on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. The people like me were just who have no social lives and nothing else to do on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. We're just thrilled by this.

Such a burn given that you and I and Lindsay Jones and Jory Epstein, who's also been on the island, literally had dinner on a Tuesday night last night. But anyway, continue. It's, there's always a good time to watch football. People, when I have complained about Thursday night football this year, people have said, Raj, oh, oh, we got you, you're tweeting about how you don't like the Thursday night football game, but you're, first of all, it's my job. First of all, it's my job to watch Thursday night football.

Okay. But long story short, I think the main, let's go over what's happened on Thursday night football this year. last three weeks have been horrifying from like a football perspective and like a real life perspective three weeks ago to a tungo byloa suffers his second concussion in four days he's down on the ground for 10 15 minutes he needs to be taken to the hospital horrifying stuff to watch and people feel it's because he had to play twice in four days that that's a contributing factor that had injuries are worse when you suffer them multiple times at a short period of time. The next week, the Colts play the Broncos. The score is 12 to 9. It's the only game of the year with no

touchdowns. Last week, Commander's Bears, maybe not a night that could have saved Commander's Bears. Maybe there's no situation in which that's a good game. Final score 12 to 7, Washington won with 214 yards of offense. I look this up. Over the last 22 years, since the year 2000, as far back as true media has data. Over unders, the totals of NFL games hit at not 50%, but 49.9%. That was blown away by that staff.

Wow. That Vegas is good enough that they hit 49.9%. This year on Thursday night football, one in five. We're one in five hitting the over. The Thursday night games are missing the total by about nine points. Not really even getting close.

They were six and twelve at hitting the over last year. So about 30% of them were hitting the over. So way below the rates. And if you look at like, it just doesn't feel like football is a game that is meant to be played four games after another game of football. Right. Right. And this is something that NFL players have said as long as Thursday night football has existed. So, okay.

I'm hearing that Thursday night football has a lot of problems. We've had two games the past two weeks that have been, the quality of play has just been abysmal. The one before there was a massive health and safety controversy that was really scary to watch. I'm also hearing that Maxion is good. Yes. How do we put these things together and fix Thursday night football?

What is the proposed rules change? So the thing, again, I just want to elaborate more on the fact that the problem here is the games are being played four days after another football game. Right. You know, since, like, if you go through a typical NFL week, you know,

like Monday, the guys kind of do film, they do some lifting. Tuesday, they get the day off. Right. Wednesday is really their first practice. Right. Wednesday, Thursday are kind of your real practice days. Wednesday and Thursday are your real practice days.

Friday, you go to practice or you go to Robert Kraft's wedding, whichever you're feeling like. And Saturday, you do walk through and travel. And on a Monday to Thursday schedule, it's like, you know, you have two days of practice. You don't have a day off. You're traveling on Wednesday after you practice. It's not doable. And players have said for your Robert Richard Sherman, no relation, called it a poop fest. Drew Brees said,

do you understand what guys' bodies go through in a game, then to turn around four days later into play? Is this smart as it pertains to players' health and safety? Absolutely not. Doug Baldwin said Thursday night football should be illegal. So what we need to do is what Mac should do. Starting in November, the teams in the Mac do not play on Saturdays. They take a week off in late October.

They play on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. They play the next Tuesday and Wednesday night. They play the next Tuesday and Wednesday night after that. They have a normal game week. It's just that they've turned their Saturday into Tuesday or Wednesday night. So what I'm proposing is this. We create sort of a mini league within the NFL of teams that are only going to play on Thursday nights. We take, I, I, I, my plan here is, is we can work on the details, but it just so happens.

The numbers here work out perfectly. Okay. There are 32 teams in the NFL. Correct. 14 of them make the playoffs at any given year. Yep. So that leaves 18 that didn't. And there are 18 weeks in an NFL season.

So we take the 18 teams that didn't make the playoffs and we build a ladder. We build a ladder. And if you win your Thursday night football game, you don't have to play on Thursdays anymore. You're into the club. You're into the regular club for the rest of the season. If you lose your Thursday night football game, you face a new opponent from the ladder.

And you have to play them. You have to play them. And whoever loses in week 18 at the end of the season gets the number one pick in the NFL draft. And I think these games, would be not only more competitive

because the teams get a full week off they the boring thing to do would just be give every team a buy before Thursday night football

the exciting thing to do would be create the ultimate tank league where everyone gets a full week off ahead of practice and it would like

if the interest is from action. The interest will be there for these actual NFL teams that we love, didn't have a good time last year, and are trying to get back to Sundays. Okay. So I need you to walk me through it one more time. So the ladder is made up of, is it all 32 teams or 18 teams that are in this letter?

It's the teams that didn't make the playoffs last year. It's the teams that didn't make the playoffs the prior year. I haven't worked out the full details yet, Okay, well, let's workshop it a little bit right now. I was thinking that the first game of the NFL season, instead of having it be, oh, the team went to the Super Bowl last, who wants to see the team that went to the Super Bowl last year? Yeah, we saw that for extra playoff games all January and February.

It's the two teams that had the number one and number two pick in the NFL draft. First game of the year, Thursday night. They play on Thursday night. And we're all excited to see the number one pick in the NFL draft debut. we'd be getting pumped about that. You know, maybe it's a great quarterback who got pick number one overall last year. And guess what? If one of those teams wins, they're a normal NFL team again.

We celebrate them. They go back to, you get to go watch your team on Sundays. If they lose, guess what? The Thursday night football next week, they're playing another one of the teams that missed the playoffs last year. So, okay, so the winner, they play on the first Thursday of the season. The winner is released from this Thursday-day purgatory, and their next game is going to be 10 days later, right? Yeah, they party that Friday, that Saturday.

NFL feds of that team are having the best 10 days off. Any NFL fans have had in a long time. But so then, okay, so then the Sunday after that first Thursday, what happens to the team that's second from the bottom on the ladder that is going to play the next Thursday? Well, so hypothetically, you know when you're weak on the ladder is coming up and you get a buy before that. That's in my head, like we've mapped out when it's your time to enter the Thursday, the Thursday Thunderdome. that's what we're calling it, the Thursday Thunderdome. Are you okay with it?

Okay, because somebody's going to lose every, well, okay, this brings up another question. Somebody is presumably going to lose every week, and we have to change the overtime rules. You can't tie if we do this. You can't tie, no, you have to keep, you have to two teams enter one team leads, you know? Okay.

And then presumably, since somebody's leaving you know when you're, so if you're second from the bottom, you're not playing that first Sunday of the season. Yes, yes. Because you're going to play week two. So we might have to build in an extra buy week, but we can work on it. Okay, I'm getting it.

So I'm mainly trying to pitch you on the concept more than the logistics. We'll figure out the logistics. I'm getting really bogged down on the details. I'm thinking maybe it's sort of like a reverse order where like if we're making the prize being if you lose the last week of the season, you got the number one pick in the draft. I think we'd have to rig it up so that like it's the 15th team from last year that plays week two, like the team that just missed the playoffs, like the Chargers or they play the week two Thursday night football game. If they happen to end the season on a 16 game losing streak

on Thursday nights, they get the number one pick in the draft the next year after that. And and then, you know, if you're a fan of, say, a team that just missed out on the number one, the number one pick of the NFL draft, like a team like the, you know, say the Giants or the Jets this year, you know, you know that you're going to be entering the Thunderdome at the end of the year. And yet you still kind of have like kind of an exciting season happening now. And then you're going to get to play, you're going to get to play in December and you could maybe steal, like, pull like a, like, like, like how the Eagles have.

have a pretty high traffic, even though they're a good team, except this time you'll get to earn it by going seven and ten and then losing on Thursday night football in week, week 18. The incentive structures are fascinating. I also am already like delighted by the idea of how the broadcast crew would handle any of this. Like, first of all, our apologies just must go out to Al Michaels for what he has had to witness the last few weeks. But I kind of Hell on Amazon Prime. One touchdown in two weeks of games,

I think his quote was like, God forbid. I am delighted by the thought of how that crew would handle somebody playing for the first overall pick or seeing, you know, seeing the Cardinals for the eighth week in a row

if someone just couldn't get out of the couldn't get out of the trap. We're going to have to sell this to Amazon Prime, I think, is the problem. We're going to have to. Yeah. So how do we pitch Bezos? How do we pitch Bezos? Like, this is an exciting tournament.

This is a moment that you can be a part of. Fans will watch the NFL whenever, wherever, to quote the great Shakira, the Super Bowl halftime performer. But. Shakira's in some legal trouble. No, she got out of, But she's not going to Spanish prison. I don't think she got out of it.

I think she didn't. You keep talking about out of pitch Bezos. I'm Googling Shakira. And the only thing that people are getting bad about is the quality of the games. And the quality of the games is bad because they're playing on three days rest. However, when we get a team that's played 17 Saturday, 17 Thursdays in a row, they're going to be fired up. They're going to be ready to go. Right.

we're going to be getting to his best shot every week. They're going to have a full week of rest. Fans will much in the same way that you, Jeff Bezos, have created a new cast of characters on Amazon's Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power.

The NFL will be creating its own new set of Thursday night heroes like Baker Mayfield's who's lost 11 games in a row. People are fired up about him on Thursday nights because we've gotten to watch him every week and we've gotten to know him and love him over the course of

this 11 game Thursday night losing streak. Much in the same way that, you know, we're selling Amazon on the opportunity to create its own, not just a part of the NFL experience, but like its own NFL experience. It's going to put its stamp on the league. Yeah, I hear it. I hear it. I think, and, you know, maybe we don't talk that much in the pitch meeting. I'm thinking, I'm rethinking this.

Maybe we don't talk that much about the pitch meeting about a team potentially losing 15 weeks in a row on Amazon Prime. But that's part of the delight of it, I think, if there was just one team that couldn't. You know, it's also, I think this is a great anti-tanking measure. I just, to the NFL, I'm back pitching raw. instead of Jeff. Okay. You got to get them

both on board. So the NFL has had these issues with, oh, are people tanking? Are people not tanking? Um, this makes it basically

impossible for you to get that number one pick of the draft unless you're really willing to commit. You have to spend an entire season losing on Thursday night

football every weekend pretending you're not doing it intentionally. So, by the way, producer Steph Slacks, I do think Shakira beat the tax evasion. I'm not so sure. You can't just keep saying I'm not so sure.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was about to come with evidence. New York Times story from September 29th of this year, Shakira to stand trial for tax evasion in Spain. Listen. I believe

in Shakira and I believe that she'll beat the charge. prosecutors have charged Shakira 45 with six counts of tax fraud for failing to pay 14.5 million euros and income taxes. They are seeking an eight-year prison sentence and a fine of more than 23 million euros. Shakira has repeatedly denied the accusations in a statement. Representatives for Shakira said that she has repaid the 14.5 million euros, quote, they were claiming and that she, quote, has no tax steps with the Spanish treasury. I don't know. The point I'm getting is that I've solely. you so thoroughly to come on to Thursday night football island, which by

the way will be an island like a literal, we should make the players be on a literal island if they can't, if they can't win on Thursday night, that you're trying to distract the people with Shakira. Maybe they could do, remember when

the the little like floating pavilion was supposed to be part of the draft before. Yeah, at the Or they canceled it with COVID at the Belagio. They could make a bigger one and play Thursday night football on it. Amazon can make like a reality show about the team that has to play every week. And like hard knocks, but they're trapped on a little tiny island somewhere.

And they're trying to figure out how to win the next week. Yeah. So Amazon already has all or nothing, right? So I think in this scenario, all or nothing definitely just becomes. the story of Thursday night football. It doesn't have to be a specific team, but it is just like, whichever team

takes the longest to get out of Thursday night football jail. There's something compelling about really awful football teams that hasn't quite translated with Thursday nights really awful football.

You know? So it almost does, right? Like, and I don't know that this would be the most effective pitch. But let's be honest, the best part of Colts Broncos was like, you know, that game stunk for three quarters. And then at a certain point, you're sort of like, oh, this is funny. This has become so bad. It's good. Now, you know, Michaels and Herbstreet are like, sort of uncomfortable, but they're starting to make jokes. People are getting their tweets off. Like, it gets good at a certain point. And I do think that this, this proposal,

does lean into that. That's one of the things you have going for you, Raj. It's football, bad football is sort of like a cheese. It, it's a, it turns into a mold and you're a little bit horrified by it. And then eventually it turns into something delicious. I don't actually know if that's how the cheese process, the cheese aging process works. We need Ben Solac, cheese expert Ben Solac on here. Yeah, I can't help you. I'm doing Shakira Fax this week. That's it. You're doing chicire and doing cheese. I actually don't know if I just feel like there's a moment where cheese is gross because it's mold and then it becomes better and turns into like cheddar or whatever or breeder. I don't actually know how that. But like it used to be milk, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. Roger, you're going to get us canceled by the cheese people. I know more about football than cheese. And I don't know that much about football. But I know that at a certain point, we need to. capture that in the same way that they've turned into industrial cheese making facilities where they make cheese all the time. I think that we can really mine bad football because there is something bad. And I just want to take a moment to apologize to the back, which does play sort of wonderful football on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.

Right. But the way to increase the quality and I think the point. player safety is to play once a week. And the way to harness the power of the bad football is to make it the worst teams of the NFL dying to get off of Thursday Night Island. So this Thursday, we've got Cardinals Saints. Do you have a pick for that game? My pick is despair because both of these teams make me a little bit sad. And it's not quite in a way that excites me.

like the cardinals I feel like just should be doing so much better. I had so much hope for Cliff and Kyler. The Saints, they're playing Andy Dalton. They still haven't gotten over their Taysam Hill thing. They're still calling up Taysam Hill in the middle of the night when they get lonely and playing him in weird packages. And like,

I just... Sometimes it's working though. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about calling up your... calling someone up that maybe you shouldn't. It might work out. But it's, it doesn't make, it doesn't make me happy.

It makes me a little bit distressed. And it's just because they're still pretending that it could be good, a Thursday night football game. And, and that's not what we need. We need to embrace what we have in Thursday night football. And we need to make it safe for the players. and this is why I want to bring everyone to Thursday Night Island. So I will give you a pick.

I'm picking, actually I think the Cardinals are favored, but I still lean towards the Saints. So let's say that I'm right. Cardinals lose. Let's look up their schedule. I'll tell you what I'm picking. I pick it. I pick the dab under because it's hit one out of,

it's hit five out of six times. So I know that this is not how it would work in your In my beautiful proposal Because we would go to the ladder And they would be paired with teams that didn't make playoffs But The Cardinals next few games So they get the Vikings

Then the Seahawks and then the Rams Um Where How long do you think Do you think that by the time they got to that Rams game, again, I'm changing your rules proposal a little bit just to work

with the schedule that we have. How long does it take the Arizona Cardinals to get out of Thursday night purgatory? It's who and who? It's who and Seahawks and Rams? So they play the Saints tomorrow. Then they've got the Vikings next.

I'm counting that as a Vikings W. Yeah, same. All right. So more Thursday night cards. Then the Seahawks who just beat the Cardinals. Yeah, so the Seahawks are keeping the Cardinals on Thursday Night Island. The Rams made the Super Bowl last year. I can see them losing all these games.

I can see them staying on Thursday Night Island for a damn button. Then they have the 49ers. 49ers are a mess too. If the Cardinals can only put up three offensive points against the Seahawks defense, that's not looking too great. I don't care how many injuries the 49ers have. Then they have the Chargers who have not exactly been exciting, but still, you know,

opponent with some talent. You could... The thing about the NFL right now is it's really hard to look at teams and believe in them. Roger. Yeah. Roger.

Yeah. This is what the schedule's building to. After the Chargers, they have the Patriots. We've been frisky the last two weeks. Then. Then. And at this point,

we have had the Cardinals on Thursday night for seven weeks. And in their eighth week, Cardinals Broncos. I think so our idea sounds bad but someone in the NFL offices somewhere said let's put the

goddamn Broncos on pride time every single week. How much worse is our idea than perma Broncos? So first of all, first of all, your idea. I'm undecided here. Oh, sorry. I was counting you in because you seemed enthusiastic.

Wow. Don't count your island of mates before you're on the boat. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just trying to do something. But I take your point. I take your point. There have been wacky ideas before. Someone's got to dream big to put change in action. Oh, Roger. So you were comparing my idea to to Broncos, to perma broncos, which we have? Burma Broncos. Well, no, you were saying that somebody had the idea to put the Broncos on primetime five times this season. And therefore, we should use

that as evidence that wacky ideas are allowed to flourish in the NFL from time to time. Yes. All right. I've got a choice to make here. We have don't get rid of Thursday night football.

Turn it into Maxion is is a ladder for the first overall pick island. Yes. That, I need a better catchphrase, because Baction is a ladder for the first overall pick really doesn't. It's a little wordy.

It's a little wordy. You can't put that on a poster. But just rethink, rethink Thursday night football. Make it really lean into it. Lean into Thursday nights. So that part is where, I love it.

If the NFL is going to go, you know, they're going to put a game on Black Friday next week. If they're trying to occupy more and more real estate in the weekly calendar, they've got to get a little bit more creative with it, particularly because we are seeing that the quality of play is diminished. If we could expect, you know, no more injuries, as good quality of play as the best of what we get on Sunday, different story, right?

Like feed your audience the best you've got. We know that that is not happening. So where I am totally with you is that they should get a little bit more creative with it and be willing to have a little bit more fun. Maybe rethinking the Pro Bowl is sort of like a gateway to being willing to do this in other areas. I would count myself as a member of like a neighboring island.

But Roger, I'm very sorry. I cannot join you on this island. for literally one reason, which is that I just went through how long we think the Cardinals would be on Thursday night football. I cannot commit myself to watching their offense that much.

I cannot do it. I am unwilling. I'm very sorry. I love the energy that you've brought to this. I love the creativity. But for self-preservation, for Al Michaels' preservation, I am worried about the number of

horizontal past concepts designed by Cliff Kingsbury that this plan would force me to witness. I did not come into today thinking that I would lose to the Arizona Cardinals. I really, but you know something? I'm, I'll look over at you on a telescope and wave in our archipelago of neighboring Thursday night football islands. And if you have lost to the Arizona Cardinals, I believe that means

congratulations, Roger Sherman. You now hold the first overall pick in the 2023 NFL draft. This has been the island on the Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Puntziotti. Thank you to Roger Sherman for joining us

and to you for listening. We will be back next week. But for now, Sheila Capadio will be up next on this feed tomorrow going in-depth on NFL news on The Scramble. Thank you to Stefan Anderson for production on this episode

and to Connor Nevin's and Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.