The Ringer NFL Show - Top 10 GM’s Going Into the 2021 Season

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

Kevin and Nora are joined by Danny Kelly to pick their 10 best GM’s in the NFL. Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Guests: Danny Kelly Associate Producer: Stefan Anderson Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am Kevin Clark, joined today by Danny Kelly. Danny, what's going on? What's happening? And Nora Princeati back from vacation. Nor, what was the highlight? Highlight. I went to a wedding in Santa Barbara, which was on an orchid farm, which was fairly spectacular.

An orchid farm? I had a really great time at that. Yeah. Wow. I was sort of a peripheral invite to this wedding. I went with my mom. My mom was not a peripheral invite, but it was very kind of them to. include me. So the two reasons I was really gung-ho about going were one, I was psyched to be

included. Sure. Really, really, really love the bride, which is who we knew. But I see her about every other year, like once. So I was just psyched that I was on the list. And then two, Orchid Farm in Santa Barbara, I was kind of like, yeah, I'm going to attend. What percentage of, what percentage of wedding invites do you say yes to? 95%. So that was, it was the first wedding I've ever been to. So 100%. Are you joking? No, I'm not kidding.

But I have five in the next couple of months. You've never been to all of them. You've never been to a wedding before. I'd never been to a wedding. What? This is like when Danny Kelly was like, I've never had French onion soup at age 35. This is way worse than that. I don't know.

Friends are married yet. But, okay. You've never been to. You didn't have any friends. Okay, but you didn't have any friends or older. You didn't have parents friends. you have family friends. I do have friends that are older

and they're getting married this October and I will be in attendance. I have a wedding on August 6th. I have a wedding on September 11th. As a child, I'm a wedding. Okay, I don't need to hear the dates. I need to interrogate why as a child

you didn't go to a wedding. Because I didn't get invited. I can't believe this. I'm a really good wedding guest though. Did, okay. Oh, I did the small sample size. Okay, but I'm a really good wedding guest. And also,

something I learned about myself, both through attending my first wedding and also attending a dress fitting for one of my best friends who's getting married on August, sorry, not August 6th, August 7th. I cry at weddings and at wedding-related events. Okay, a lot. 100% of weddings. I just want to just spend 30 more seconds in this. Were you just stunned at all of the wedding traditions? Like, what, there's a DJ?

Like, did you know the order of things at weddings? Yeah, no, I kind of got it. You looked it up on Wikipedia? There's up weddings and Wikipedia before you went? So my best friend's mom runs a stationary store. Okay. So I'm fairly familiar with wedding etiquette because of that. I worked there for a summer.

I worked for my friend Sammy's mom. So I kind of understand the whole order of operations. I will say the one thing that was news to me was how short wedding ceremonies are. Okay. Like the idea that you're, you're, seated for 15, 20 minutes, that was news to me. It varies. I figured we were in for an hour.

Yeah, you gotta get on with the dancing and stuff. Yeah. No, I think that's great. I think that's great. I just, I was, I was unaware. So if we continue to talk about this, we would spend the entire podcast on this. I just want everyone to know.

And I'm sure the listeners actually want to interrogate this more. If they have further questions, but, you know. I mean, I think we should just do a, Nora wedding mailbag at some point. Kevin, let's move on. Yeah, ballpark. Real quick,

ballpark. How many weddings have you been to do you think? Oh, God. Triple digits, right? Double digit. I've been to my own wedding. Triple digit?

Triple digit? No, double digits. I can't believe this. I'm sorry. All right. I'd have to count them all up, but I certainly was at weddings when I was Nora's stage.

Yeah. I just, I don't, I honestly don't know what to say. Yeah. Speechless. All right. You guys were going to wedding.

when you were like 25. I've been going to work since like we were kids. Right? Yeah, like your kids. Okay, this did not happen to me. What? Anyway. Okay. All right.

Let's just try to do a podcast after we're both on tilt. But let's do top 10 GM. So this was a nightmare for me because it's so much harder than coaches because we know we can say, okay, hey, this coaching job was amazing. We know what's on field, what's off field. and we can sort of divvy up credit. This to me was really hard. What do you do with a guy I love like Eric DeCosta?

Okay, well, is he a top 10 GM? Well, he's only had a couple of drafts. Ozzie Newsom still the executive vice president. He's still a practice. I don't know. The Texans have had great. You know, I was looking at a PFF study, right? Over the past decade, the Texans were one of the best first round drafting teams.

The Carolina Panthers are right behind them. It's like, okay, fine. Not only that, but not only are they, both teams bad now, but like those guys have been fired, the guys who did that. So there's just a lot of questions here. Danny, when you were going through this exercise, what was the biggest sort of question you were asking yourself about top 10 GMs? Well, not to like completely spoil things, but the biggest question for me was where to put Bill Belichick. Because he is, I think.

Or if you should rank Bill Belichick. Right, correct. To rank or not to rank. And we'll get to him on my list. And you guys might be shocked at where I put it. But I think it's so... There is nothing shocking. There's nothing shocking coming on this podcast after Nora's Revelation.

We're just putting in the house money at this point. Seriously. I wonder how many weddings Bill Belichick has gone to. Oh my gosh. Triple digits. Maybe. I doubt it's triple digits. He doesn't have time for that.

No, but I think your point... He doesn't have the schedule for it, but anybody who knows him would invite him. Right. Right. I agree with that. But yeah, Kevin, it's just so hard. It's hard. Just to be quick.

Just to difficult, you have to invite anybody who would like, like, if you know Bill Belichick a little bit, you have to invite Bill Belichick. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I know. I know. You have to see, because also you get like even, even if he sends a note or a gift or something, that's, that's extraordinary. That's good.

Right. So, all right. Danny, let's talk about football. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the, the thing is, like you said, you can't separate. It's very difficult to separate the GM. the GM from the coach in a lot of cases,

in Belichick's case, he's both. The GM from like the cap management guru, the quarterback honestly is so important to how well a GM is perceived, I believe. And then also like I look at two, like a lot of times GMs, I think, can get real hot and have like three or four picks hit in a season or whatever.

And you're like, all of a sudden this guy's the greatest GM. You wouldn't be talking about, a gym that's local to you. Would you, Danny Kelly? See? He's a pretty prime example. John Schneider of drafting like four to five future Hall of Fame playing players within like a two or three year stretch and then absolutely just sucking at drafting for the next like eight years or whatever. So I think it like that's an overstatement.

And I'm just, I'm kind of like, you know, I'm too close to it. Obviously he's had some hits. DK McAff over the last few years. Like there's been some good decisions too. He's on my list. But I'm just saying, like, the thing that I had to think about when I was making my list is, like, I think time, like, matters. So, like, I included a few guys that have been GMs for only a few years. I think that, you know, what they've done has been impressive.

However, you cannot, like, like, doing this year over year, over year, over year, over year, is just so hard. There's so much, so many variables. And I think that's why I tended to lean towards the guys that have been doing it long. and have like a longer track record because it's just it's like picking stocks it's like you can be good at it for like a two or three year period but can you do it over a decade or longer most people can't if anyone yeah maybe no one can you know what I mean so um that was that was that was the hard but I think I had to definitely you know look at the guys who have been doing it longer yeah and there's just so many questions you can ask yourself how much earned credit should you get if you

draft one quarterback and then miss on the rest of guys I mean I this was I I changed my order a million times. Nora, before we get to your list, what was the biggest question you were asking yourself while you're doing this exercise? So two things. One was whether or not to allow my list to be sort of a recency bias list, which I ended up doing and just saying, you know what, I'm going to focus this more on last couple of years. I mean, there's certainly examples where I gave credit for things that happened a long, long time ago and are still paying dividends or just paid so many that it should count. But ultimately, I decided, you know what,

I'm just going to introduce that stuff is relevant into the conversation, mainly because I just don't want to talk about good Bill Belichick trades from 10 years ago. I just didn't feel like doing that. So decided not to. The other thing was that I do give credit for things that luck influences, right?

Hitting on a great quarterback, there's skill involved in that, there's smarts, there's hard work. but there's also an element of randomness in a lot of those draft picks. Still matters. It's why teams win a lot of games, so it's also why GMs are on my list. I will say if this had been top 15,

I would not have found it a very challenging exercise. Eliminating, I have five sort of honorable mention guys or the five hardest cuts to make. That was really, really brutal. After that point, I think it's a fairly easy thing to do. But the five guys that I have that I had to cut off of this, that was really, really difficult for me. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah. And like I also like, what is like plan versus execution, right? Like I love Chris Greer's plan. And to me,

if you were doing plan, top 10 plans, which would be a very boring podcast, like the dolphins are in that. But right now, Chris Greer's not a top 10 general manager, even though I really, really like him. And he's done an incredible job building that team. There's just guys who are above them. All right, Nora, number 10. Number 10. So we're going to go bottom up. Yes, that's right.

All right. I put Joe Douglas as my number 10. Oh. Which is a great example of the sort of recency bias thing because Joe Douglas's career is going to be defined by Zach Wilson and we have no idea how that's going to go. But I think in terms of having a plan

and having to sort of start to see the infrastructure from the ground up. I think every move he's made is value-oriented, but particularly in the case of Zach Wilson, value-oriented with the understanding that you have to take some significant roles of the dice if you're going to go from being one of the worst teams in the NFL to hopefully a playoff contender.

I'm curious if he is on your guys' list at all. Daniel? He's not on my list, but I respect the choice. and I agree with you, like, it's always nice to see a team or an organization that has a pretty clear plan. And I think you can see their plan kind of going into, you know, coming into focus. So I get that. But like I said before, like I generally went with guys that have been doing it longer. Wow.

Okay. So I really like Joe Douglas. I really like him. And I think the plan there, as you said, is coming into shape. I think that you add in Zach Wilson, who I think is really good quarterback. also Vera Tucker, who everybody just raved about. And then you look at last year's draft, bringing a guy like Beckton.

And then knowing that the job was one of the hardest jobs, really in the last 15 years, I don't know, to come into, not only do you inherit Adam Gase, but you inherit a franchise to inexplicably let Mike McCagnin have one more draft. Like imagine looking at Mike McCagin's drafts and then being like, let's give him one more. Let's give him one more draft to see

how it goes. And it was a total failure. And the fact that they, that Douglas had to kind of scramble to start building his roster in mid-year, there were just so many problems with it. And it would, it's going to take a while to, I don't think they're going to win this year. But if they're competitive next year, that's just an unbelievable team building job. So I, I completely agree with you, Nora. Thank you. Appreciate that. I actually will say, I think the, just an addendum, the, the very Tucker trade up, I love the player selection. That is my one, not sure this is consistent with my sense of how value-oriented he is and why that's such a big plus for me in putting him on this

list, but still like the player, like the fit. So it could be a lot worse. I will say for this year, I actually was on a Jets podcast the other day and they were asking about this. I was thinking about Brian Flores with Robert Sala because his job this year, the Jets are going to be bad. His job is to build a culture while they're bad. Because I remember going down to the Miami in December 2019, the year that everyone thought they were tanking and talking to some of their players. And they were talking about how they, you know,

they're turning through the roster all the time. They're meeting guys for the first time in the huddle or on the field or on the sidelines or whatever it is. And yet, Brian Flores is able to build a culture. So that's the biggest challenge this year in a year that they're going to have a ton of turnover is just starting to build that foundation for when they're good in 2022. Danny Kelly, number 10. Yeah.

So just to preface this real quick, I was with Nora and narrowing down it to my 10th guy was difficult. I ended up going with John Lynch for the 49ers. Relatively knew the job. So that kind of goes against what I was just saying too. But I think after you get past his, I would say disastrous first couple of picks, like passing up on Mahomes in 2017 to take Solomon Thomas. He later took Ruben Foster in the same first round.

Since that, he got George Kittle out of that draft. So that's a huge hit. And then I'd say just building the foundation for a competitive championship caliber team. He's done a really good job. Mike McIntyre, Fred Warner, Nick Bosa, Debo Samuel. You know, I like to pick at Javon Kinla. I think he's going to emerge. Brandon IUC last year was really good. And free agency, they've been aggressive. And I think done a pretty good job, Richard Sherman last year. The Trent Williams trade was an important one for them. This, you know, trading up for Trey Lance is going to define this whole front office probably

and this coaching side with Shanahan. I'm optimistic and I think it's going to work. So overall, I like their aggressiveness. I like how they've built that team. I think Lynch is a good talent evaluator. He's done a good job of identifying guys on both sides of the ball. The one thing I would say is the positional value question mark that you have on him. Like, why do they keep giving Kyle you check so much money? Maybe it's just because they think he's like so key to their scheme or whatever.

But like the D4 trade wasn't great. I don't think that worked out. Jimmy G thing is like somewhere in the middle, not really sure. but overall, like, I think he's done a good job, and he pairs well with Shanahan and kind of setting that table and giving them a competitive team, a good team on both sides of ball. So I've been impressed so far,

but, you know, like I said, there's some things that have to happen going forward to vault him up into the elite tier. Norah, John Lynch? He wasn't on my list, but he was in the five hardest cuts. Top 15? Yeah. I'm just going to include everybody on my top five cuts,

even if I was more than five people. You're going to have 17 top five cuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Danny, number 10 for me is Rick Spielman. So what's the point of GMing? I think the first and foremost thing is to draft well and to acquire talent and to understand exactly what value is. And I think Rick Spilman is really good at that.

I mean, you look at the digs, Justin Jefferson, straight swap, basically. last year when he gets value for digs and then brings in one of the best rookie receivers we've ever seen. Adam Thielen is a college free agent. Dalvin Cook in the second round on defense, Kendrick, Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr, Hunter. You know, I talked to him a few years ago about the different ways to sort of build a team. And we were talking about how some teams go for free agency, some teams go for draft or whatever. And he was saying that they were in the best spot, which is they drafted well.

And now they're pretty much capped out because they just drafted a bunch of good players they had to sign you an extension. That's a good thing. That's what you want. Everyone talks about having cap flexibility and stuff like that. And listen, the Vikings could certainly have done better in that regard. And obviously the Kirk Cousins contract is a different deal. And I actually think the Kirk Cousins contract is fine when you look at just the leverage and how we would have run of the jets and all that. But I just think that when you draft talent and you retain them, that that's a fine team building process. This year, the Vikings are not going to be good. They're not going to have the depth. They're kind of going to have the problems that I just kind of laid out.

I know that it's a double-edged sword to be sure. But what I will say is that if you're just looking at who's done a great job of being a GM since 2012 and Rick's whom took over, he's right there. This is a really unscientific way of evaluating. And Rick Spilleman is not on my list, but was also in the five hardest cuts. He and their cap guy, Rob Rzinski, I think are some of the front-off. guys who I've heard agents MF the most often. And I think that's a good sign. Yeah.

Just being like, that guy. Dude, they're cap wizards. They're cap wizards over there. Yeah, it's a, I think it's a solid franchise. And I think that they're going to be good more than they're bad over the long run. And again, not high expectations for them this year, but I just think when you took look at the total picture, Spilman's pretty good. Nora number nine. Number nine, John Robinson.

So, first of all, I like a general manager with a type. I think there's a lot of teams that say they want big physical imposing tough players. Very few of them actually follow through in the way that the Titans follow through with that. Like you look at that team, you look at that team photo, take every training camp, some big guys on that roster. I also think that, I mean, look, there's a pretty good, there's a pretty good draft history. So Jack Conklin, Derek Henry, A.J. Brown, obviously, John O'Smith, no longer with them, but some really good player selections. I also think, look, the Ryan Tannhill career arc is a really unusual one. And I give him a lot of credit for finding a guy who,

had that much of a track record. And I don't know if it was skilled evaluation or if there was some luck and some randomness there or maybe he really subscribes to the Adam Gase theory. But finding a guy who could rebound like that and turn into a productive starter, I think is really, really, really impressive. So I gave him a lot of bump for that.

But then also in particular, just clearly having something that he wants in terms of what a team should look like sticking to that plan, building a roster that's not perfect. They definitely have some weaknesses right now, but surprisingly competitive if you think about the last five-plus years. Danny John Robinson? He was on my list of just barely didn't make it, guys.

I put him pretty much even with like the John Lynch. Okay, I just want to stop right here. Does everybody, did both of all three of us just have a list of 31 GMs? It could have made the list and then Ryan Pace. No. No. Do you want to know, do you want to know my? top five cuts. Should I just say?

There's only five of them. No, then you're going to spoil the list. Okay. Yeah. I have five cuts at the end. We're going to get to the cuts at the end. Yeah. I had five cuts. There's only five of them. To your point, Nora, I was in the phone with John Robinson last year. We were talking about the type of player he likes.

And he was talking about how I said this before, but he scouts players who are still hitting really hard late in games and that's a trait you can look for. He wants badasses, basically. But then he also had a series of hunting analogies, like hunting dog analogies about what he looks for in players. And he was like, you know what I'm talking about? And I was like, absolutely. And I still have no idea what he's talking about. Totally. Because you can't, you can't really explain that to me. When you're on the phone

in the gym, do a finite amount of time. And so you can't just be like, explain this hunting thing to me. And so I was just like, yeah, absolutely, I definitely, I was thinking the same thing, John. That also does not track for me. Because aren't hunting dogs like pretty spelt? Like, I think Titans players are like, they're like, they're like, they're like, Like the dogs that are supposed to rescue you in Switzerland in an avalanche. They're like big floofy boys. As previously discussed, I don't understand it. So if you're looking for answers for me, I'm the wrong person.

John Robinson, come on the ring around a show and talk about dogs. John Robinson is the guy. All right, my number nine, number nine for me is Andrew Barry. So this is a little bit more of a projection. So, I mean, again, this is where it comes down to. There are two people in my list who are benefiting in some parts from John Dorsey. And how do you divorce that? Should John Dorsey be on my list?

Like, I don't know. But Andrew Barry, I think, is one of the best young GMs, but he's also one of the best GMs, period. When you look at how quickly he built on just what was there and the offseason that he had this year, which I think is going to get the Browns to be a little better, I don't know they're on the Chiefs level at all. but I love the selection of Greg Newsom. Grant Delta will coming back for your two healthy this time. John Johnson, I think, is one of the best signings. Troy Hill, slot corner, awesome.

I just think that there's a there. And I think that Andrew Barry is one day going to be among the top GMs in the NFL, and it's already started. Yeah, I'm with you. He's not on my list, but I respect the choice. And I think like we were talking about with Douglas, there's a very clear plan here. You can see it.

It's easy to identify, and I like that, and they're sticking to it. They have an identity. They seem to have a specific goal in terms of, like, the guys that they're picking and everything. So, yeah, I absolutely like that. Danny Kelly, number nine. So I'm going with Jerry Jones slash Stephen Jones, the Cowboys. Obviously, you know, not perfect. But I think from a talent acquisition point of view, they've done well in the draft.

You know, they've done well with trades, generally speaking. The Marty Cooper trade, I think, looks like a win for them. You know, they've identified good skill players like Gallup, C.D. Lamb. Obviously, Dak Prescott's a huge hit for them. Zeke Elliott is a big hit, obviously, in the draft. You could talk about positional value, of course, and the decision to resign him. But it's hard to deny that, like, they've built a very, very good, talented offense. You know, there's some good hits on defense, too, to Marcus Lawrence, Jaylon Smith.

There's obviously misses sprinkled in there. Oh, yeah, Byron Jones, a nice hit. but then not resigning him. Bad decision. And I think so, you know, there's some hits and misses here, but I think generally speaking, they've built competitive rosters. They've built talented rosters.

And, you know, the offensive line, like the identity thing that they've built there, I think, again, goes back to having a plan and sticking to it. So I think what they've done overall is really strong. And obviously, Jones goes back to, like, 1989 in terms of his track record. And people will definitely, you know, hang up, get hung up on some of the big misses there, but I think overall they've been,

they've been pretty dinged solid in terms of talent acquisition. I agree. I just, are they, are there any less nor? The Jones is? Not on my list. I did think about it long and hard,

though. Not even a top five cut. Wow. Not a top five cut. Probably just outside that, but not a top five cut. I will say, and I think this is a little unfair.

I think Jerry Jones gets dinged. I know too much. You know, like, if I didn't know how much he loved Paxton Lynch, that would probably be for the better, even though it had no impact on the team. But I know that. And it's hard to forget. Stephen Jones also said that Connor Cook was ahead of their,

ahead of Jack Prescott on their board because he played in a pro-style offense. Okay, so I love Jerry Jones. I think that he's actually strangely, I mean, he has an eye for talent. Like, they draft really well. Danny, you just spelled that out. He's in timeout for me because he was almost number 10 for me.

He's in timeout because of how long you waited on the DAC contract. Stephen Jones came out and said that was a mistake. Stephen Jones said that was a mistake. Obviously, they should have locked him up earlier. Everybody knew it was a mistake and it cost him, you know, pretty decent trunk. He's still a top 15 GM for me. I just, right now, right now he's on the, he's off the list. One other variable, I think.

Does he take time out on the yacht? Yeah. No, on the bus. I was going to say one other variable, I think that goes into this. almost pushed him down further for me was coach selection. I think if the GM has power over choosing coaches, I would say like sticking with Jason Garrett for a decade and Mike McCarthy as the replacement is not necessarily a positive.

I agree. Eight, Nora. Well, my eighth is Andrew Barry. So I will echo what you said. And just in particular, John Johnson, Troy Hill, the secondary upgrades that they made this offseason, I think it's one of the most sort of improved positional groups

across the league. And I think I would just bet that that's one of those things that we're going to be looking at in September and going forward and going, okay, wow, yeah, that this was already a good team, but that makes a difference. Danny, number eight. So I got Brett Veach slash Andy Reid for the chiefs

because I know that Andy Reid is pretty heavily involved in like decision-making and everything. And honestly, if Vech had been the actual GM when they drafted Pat Mahomes, he'd probably be quite a bit higher just because that was such a visionary pick.

However, he does get credit because he was pounding the table for Mahomes. He, according to the reports I've read, was the guy who talked Dorsey and Reed into trading up and taking him. And correct me if I'm wrong. That was like the,

that was what happened, right? Like Dorsey was the GM when he got selected, but then got replaced pretty much right after that. I think a year later. Yeah. So Veach for background, fell in love with Pat Mahomes, basically had to convince the entire front office that this is the guy for us. And then, you know, obviously that turned out to be a great call.

And now this is the foundational piece for the franchise for the next 10 or 15 years. That's huge. I think he gets a ton of credit for that. I also think that he's been very flexible. Like he's been the model of flexibility in terms of GM, remaking the offensive line this season. remaking the past rush the season before that. Yep. You know, his ability to identify mid-round talent, I think, has been very solid.

I would say the reason he's not higher is there's, maybe this is just recency bias, but like his last few early round picks are not looking great. Like, Edward Salar, I think, was probably a reach. Hardman has not turned out well. You know, there's a few, over the last three seasons or so their top picks just haven't really been big contributors. And so not that, not to say that I don't like Edwards-Alair, but like, you don't need a running back in the first round when you're that roster. So I would say that was a ding for me.

But otherwise, like, I think he's done an amazing job. Like the cap stuff too, I think, you know, signing Mahomes to a 10-year deal seems like honestly like a bargain. Pretty good. A massive bargain. So, yeah, I think overall done a really good job. The chiefs are in good hands. Danny, you mentioned a running back shouldn't go in the first round. Are you the first person to bring that up?

Did you discover that? So I've been doing some research. I've been doing some research, Kevin. So, yeah, so he's he's number five on my list. I'll just briefly go over this. First of all, Danny, he was hired right, right? His first draft was 2018. Yeah.

But he was hired right before training camp when they couldn't. There was a weird thing right before training camp where Reed and Dorsey were going to sign matching extensions according to reports. And then Dorsey just got fired instead. Classic, classic extensions into fired. Interesting. Discussions. Anyway, so yeah, his first draft was 2018. I think that, you know, I did a piece with Vich right before the Super Bowl,

and we talked about how much easier it is to be the GM for Andy Reid than anybody else because if you draft a guy, Andy Reid, and that coaching staff will find a way to get him involved. But they're a really good coaching staff and they can just figure that out. I agree, like, when they have holes, Vich plugs them. And he is sort of on record saying that you have to be all in every single year. They're not going to kind of say, hey, we have Mohomans. We can take a couple of years off and try to write the salary. gap or whatever it is. They've been able to get everybody they need under contract,

everybody. And the fact that they had a hole and we saw it in February and then they went out and got Orlando Brown, Joe Tunney. We'll see on the Kyle Long health situation. But I just love that they solve problems, Nora, Brett Feach. Five on my list as well. And I think the Mahomes contract is sort of 1A in that because if you were to knock him, it's just that he sort of started on third base, but that contract is... But he also pounded the table. He pounded the table for Patrick Mulms. Yes, yes.

And totally, he's number five on my list. Red Beach is amazing. But I think that contract is a really big deal because even when it's a sort of unprecedented player, I just think that it can't be overstated how difficult it is for guys to be willing to kind of break the mode in any way in the NFL. and identifying, look, this is Patrick Freak and Mahomes.

Let's just do it like this. That's a really, really, really big deal. Even if it's, obviously, it was a no-brainer to do a long-term extension with him, I think really pushing the envelope on that is one of the best acts of jamming in recent memory. And I think it's really impressive. All right. I agree. Nora, number seven.

My number seven, this is when I was excited to sort of pound the table for. Tom Telesco. Yeah. I have him higher. Yes. Okay. Amazing. I kind of,

I almost wanted to put him higher. So I'm really glad that we're a pro Tom Telasco podcast. So great drafter is really what it comes down to. Seven years in a row drafted a pro bowler and all pro. Keenan Allen, Jason Brett, Melvin Gordon, Joey Bosa, Desmond King, Derwin James. Now I got Justin Herbert. And I think that he's the sort of early returns on how they're going to try to support Justin Herbert, I think are really positive.

I love, love, love that their big move was for a center this offseason. I just think that if you're going to have a young quarterback like that, that is like one of the best things that you can give him is just to, one, support the offensive line and to have someone really smart who's going to be able to take some of the mental burden away. You could ding Tom Telesco if you wanted to. One, I think for some past coach selection stuff. And then two, I don't know if you want to ascribe.

the ghost that haunts the Chargers to our ranking of Tom Telesco at all. He's certainly one of the guys that I think if you compare acquisition track record to actual track record, it's the most out of whack.

But we're not talking about actual wins and losses here, playoffs or whatever. And he's really good. All right. I have Telesco number four on my list. Took over in 2013.

I like it. I like it. Took over in 2013. 13 drafted Keenan Allen. He's also been there for a long time. Keenan Allen, Joey Bosa, Derwin James. We know that. But then this offseason, Justin Herbert, obviously, Justin Herbert.

But this offseason, he did exactly what you should be doing, which is understanding what is needed for a rookie quarterback to progress when they're supposed to progress, which is between year one and year two statistically, and saying, okay, let's go out and get Corey Winsu, let's get Matt Filer. Like, they did everything you're supposed to do to support a emerging super our rookie quarterback. They went out and hired Brandon's Daly. Whether or not hiring a defensive coach works in that spot remains to be seen. But I think it will work. I just think that

they're pushing all the right buttons, as Rasilla likes to say. All right, number eight, let's need really quick. This is the opposite of some of the other picks. I mean, this is aggression. Obviously, they have drafted really well. They draft a little guy named Aaron Donald. But they also went out and got Matthew Stafford this year. They have a completely different, they have a completely different viewpoint on first-round picks than some of the franchise. And I think that's fine. Trading for Jalen Ramsey is worth it if Jalen Ramsey plays like Jalen Ramsey. The coaching factory they've set up with McVeigh, a DC like Wade Phillips and into Brandon Staley.

There's a reason that the kind of I know Sean McVeigh meme has proliferated. It's because they figured out sort of a cheat code on how to run offenses effectively. And I think that with Brandon's Daily. you're saying that that can work on both sides of the ball. Danny Kelly, number seven. Yeah, so real quick, I had Rick Spielman. So I basically agree with everything that you said on that. I think, again, identifying talent on both sides of the ball.

Like, he's got superstar players on both sides of ball. And he's been pretty consistent about that. And I actually, like, with you, I like the decision to sign Kirk Cousins. I don't know, I think he gets credit for hiring Mike Zimmer, who is a good coach. So, yeah, overall, like, I think he's just done a really good job of making that team competitive. All right. My number seven is John Schneider.

Are you upset about this, I'm not upset about it? He was on my, he was on my just cut list. And I think, you know, it's just a recency bias thing, and I didn't want to sound like a total homer.

I think he's a good GM, but I think he's, he's had a tough patch. You do get earned credit for having the best drafts of the decade starting in 2010 and ending in 2020. Football outsiders did a study on that,

and they said that the Seahawks had an incredible return on their picks relative to everybody else ahead of Dallas Green Bay in Pittsburgh. The return versus the Capitol, they said they got 135% value on their picks. Now, they're a problem. KFF had the Seahawks as 30th in drafting first round picks at that point. But they're still hitting. D.K. McCaff was a franchise rejuvenating pick on the offensive side of the ball. He's one of the best receivers there is. So I think that that Schneider is still a good GM. I think that, you know, do I think he's on some sort of hot streak like we talked about?

No, I don't. But I do think that if you just look at the big picture of his career, everything is fine. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. I think he's had a few trades that have fizzled. You know, like the Jimmy Graham trade, the Percy Harvin trade, those didn't work out really. And I think the jury is still out on whether the Jamal Adams trade will be viewed as a success.

But I do appreciate that he's, and his big deal, like his thing that he always says is creating or like having a championship caliber team. And the Seahawks always seem to be very competitive. So like you have to respect that and the job he's done it and making that roster competitive if you're in and you're out. Totally. By the way, the 49ers giving Fred Warner

a five-year $95 million deal. There you go. I think we all agree with that. All right, everyone's done seven, right? Yep. All right. Number six, Nora Preciati. Kevin Colbert.

So this was either going to be, no, not on your list? Higher. No, he's higher for me. Same. Okay, that would have shocked me if he was not on your list. Yeah. Again, this is another example of why I kind of

kind of have a little bit of recency bias going here. Consistency. Perennially good team. Perennially stacked roster, particularly in identifying defensive talent, and then obviously shark with blood in the water if there is a half decent wide receiver to be had anywhere in the continental U.S.

or probably the world. This one's fairly obvious to me. I mean, I think the fact that in some areas, the cupboard has gotten a little bit more barren recently is probably why he's six and not like two on my list here. But there are razor thin differences between the rankings here. And these are all really, really, really good executives.

They also have, they do some really good, I think, solid contract structure stuff in Pittsburgh, too, which I give him credit for. Definitely. Definitely. Danny, number seven. We're going to get to Colbert. Danny and I are both going to get to Colbert later. Okay, sounds good. Much later for me.

So this is number six for me, Chris Ballard of the Colts, who I think he obviously has a very good eye for talent, I think. And like many of the guys that we've talked about on this list, they seem to have a very specific plan for what they're doing. They want to be tough, physical, own the trenches. They built out a really good offensive line. They traded for DeForest Buckner. I think the reason I don't have him higher is number one.

He just hasn't been doing it quite as long. they haven't had quite as much successes, like, say the 49ers, for instance, who made it to the Super Bowl. And I think a lot of his, like, not legacy or whatever, but like his reputation is going to be based on how Carson Wentz does. So, like, what happens there, that could end up being like a genius move for them. Or it could end up being a total waste and, you know, we'll see how that goes. Overall, though, I think he's a, you know, got a good eye for talent. They've drafted well for the most part. they've found foundational type players

in the early part of the draft last couple of seasons. So there's a few misses in there or question marks in there. But if Michael Pittman makes a big jump to see if Carson Wentz is good, he'll probably shoot up this list really quickly. I'm with you.

I have a number three because I just think that he's drafted, obviously the Quinn Nelson, Darris won her draft the first time two guys made the all pro team his rookies in the same draft class, obviously. The Carson Wentz trade to me is a big gamble.

And I kind of feel like It's funny to me because I respect the hell out of the Colts. And I respect the hell out of Chris Ballard and Frank Reich and all those guys. But I can't do the thing where I was like, man, whoever takes Carson Wentz is a big dummy. And then the Colts do it. And then I'm like, well, it's okay if they do it. Like, I still have reservations. I kind of feel like the media kind of did that a little bit where it's like, oh, well, this might work out.

Like I would feel the same way if Belichick did it, right? Where everybody would be like, wait, this is a genius move. And listen, I think that the information. structure there. It has worked in the past with Carson Wentz. So I'm not ruling out it working. I'm just saying it's a gamble. But Chris Ballard is my number three. The fourth and rookie spending right now, a great cap situation. I just think he's awesome. Nora, Chris Ballard? Chris Ballard's my number one. Oh, oh, oh. Let's go. Let's go. Tell us why. I wasn't sure if I, like, I don't know if I'm supposed to reveal that. No, you have to now. You couldn't just be like, you can't just be like, put the cat in the bank.

It's interesting that Danny and I have Colbert and Ballard flipped. Because I think I thought about it a little bit differently in that I don't think that I'm valuing like long-term track record quite as much as Danny is, which is like totally legitimate. I think Chris Ballard's had bigger problems to solve recently and has done a pretty good job of doing them. You know who also has some hesitation about Carson Wentz? The Colts. But you can tell by the fact that, okay, they did not give up a elite level pick in this year's draft. They will only give up what would be a late first rounder if Wentz pans out unless, I guess the worst case scenario for them is that he plays consistently, like starts the whole season, but isn't that good because then some of the incentives would kick in. but it's pretty unlikely

that even if he's mediocre to bad, it's not going to have cost them an exorbitant amount for a quarterback. So I think the idea that like the Colts absolutely think that Carson Wentz is going to be a surefire success.

If that were true, then they probably would have given up more for him. But I think one, it's obvious that Ballard doesn't get caught up in situations where he ends up bidding against himself because that's what would have been happening with, if he'd, and we would have been able to tell if the return for Philly had been greater.

The 2018 Colts draft, I don't understand why it doesn't quite get. I mean, I don't think it's quite as good as like the 2017 Saints draft or something like that or some of those Seahawks drafts. But Quentin Nelson, Darius Leonard, Braden Smith, Naim Hines, that is an unreal productive class. That is one of the best draft classes in recent NFL history. I don't think it quite gets the shine that it deserves. But there's clearly a plan.

And then the biggest thing for me is that he was in a really, really, really tough position. The Josh McDaniels thing falls through. Andrew Luck's retirement, surprise retirement, was one of the most seismic events in the last, I was going to say decade, but it's multiple decades of the NFL. And the fact that the Colts have sort of smoothly figured out how to remain relevant and competitive, and obviously we'll see this year through that, I think, is just the most impressive example of helming a roster that I can think of right now. So that's why he's number one for me is that I just think that he was thrown some tough, tough breaks.

He's number three for me. Cleaning up Ryan Grigsman's mess is not easy. But I would say that my number, listen, I'll get to my number one in a second. but the reason that my number one doesn't have problems to solve is because he never creates those problems. But we'll get to that. All right, I'm going to do number six. But Chris Ballard didn't create the problems.

No, I didn't, no, no, no. I'm saying that. He was just handed the problems. I understand that. I'm saying that if you're there for 20 years and you never create a problem, then you're doing something good. Okay.

So my number six is the defending Super Bowl champions, general manager, Jason Light. Listen, if you get credit, for Tom Brady coming to your franchise and seeing how good you are and doing the what was called Operation Shulisho or whatever people that they will come. That defense is nasty. The coaching staff is awesome. Drafting Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Allie Marpet, Tristan Forfs, who's, you know, who was awesome

in his first year, getting Gronk to come back, although that was more of a Brady thing. You know, Levanti David was basically the one guy that he inherited. Everybody else, Vita Vaya. I remember draft night. We did a draft show afterwards, and there was some eye roles that they passed on Darwin James. Well, Vita Vaya is an absolute game wrecker when he's healthy. Devin White, really good.

Shaq Barrett, inspired signing. I think he actually could be much higher on this list, except to say that, you know, as far as great teams, it's only been one year. I'm with you. I have him at number five, if we want to just jump right to that. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I agree.

you, I think, you know, obviously having Tom Brady is a big deal. He should get credit for signing Tom Brady. And it's like funny because if you rewind three or four years, I think he was sort of on the hot seat and he's really turned it around. Regardless, I think he built a very good foundation and packed this team with depth and talent where to the point where Brady could come in and steer it to a championship, you know what I mean? Get the guys saw him in and believe. So I think he gets a lot of credit for building what is a championship level team. They're going to probably compete for it again this year. Absolutely. He hit it in all three phases like trades, free agency, the draft. I think you have to, the reason he's not higher for me is like,

you know, basically what happened in the time, you know, before the last couple of seasons where he's taking Noah, sorry, he's taking Roberto Aguayo in the second round, things like that. Like the James Winston experiment just did not work out for them. The coaching hires were uninspired. But I love the Ariens hire. So all in all, I think he's done a really good job. And this team looks really like set to, you know, be a Super Bowl contender again this year, maybe, if not the favorite. Nora, Jason Light.

Number three for me. If you don't love me at my Roberto O'Gwayo, you can't have him in my Tom Brady. Like Jason Light, undeniably used to do weird shit. but it's just an incredible accomplishment what's happened there and I think it's underrated how much that didn't just happen last season. That plan dates back several drafts

and in particular, I think, is founded on one thing that I really like in a GM, which is the willingness to double up on a need. You look at their 2019 draft and they just went so heavy on coverage players. Well, a lot of those defensive players became foundational for the team that just won the Super Bowl. And I like that because I think it's a combination of aggressiveness and humility because it's a general manager saying, okay, we have a need here. We need to get better in this area. Also, to a degree, the draft is a crapshoot. And we're just going to throw some darts at the dartboard.

And I always have a lot of respect for that. And it's really worked out for them. I mean, in that area, also the willingness to have Mike Evans still go out. had Chris Godwin and OJ Howard in the same draft. Like, they've really, one, emphasized the passing game, both offensively and defensively, and shown a willingness to see a need and just attack it. Also, Tom Brady. All right. Light was Danny's number five. Beach was Nora's number five.

We covered that. Number four, guys, Nora? Mickey Loomis. Oh. Mickey Loomis. DeFire of Space. FaceTime and financial currency. Bullet point number one, the 2017 Saints draft,

Latimore, Ramchik, Kamara, that's one of the best drafts in modern history. Also, the fact that money is just does not exist for them, and they seem to pull it off year after year. I love that. It's very impressive quality. It still makes no sense to me, but I have no choice but to respect it.

And then also, he's been homing one of the most competitive consistently competitive rosters for a really long time and also gets credit going back to getting Peyton and Breeze in there. So you can do it more recently, you can do it long term, just one of the most consistent best guys at the job. Danny's Mickey Loomis on your list? He is, yes, he is.

He's my number three. So I agree wholeheartedly. I think if you just, I made a list of like the top level players he's drafted since, and he's been the gym for a long time. So obviously there's more, you know, he's been there since 2002. but it's just star-studded list of like franchise-changing players.

So and the list of WIFs is much, much shorter. And I think overall they've just done a really good job of being, you know, competitive, always being very, very flexible with the cap and, you know, just having that ability to use trades and things like that to replenish. And I think that's just impressive. So, yeah, he's done a really good job quietly of, you know, just making this team competitive year in and year out. Love it.

Number three for Nora is Jason Light, correct? Yeah. Danny, number three? That would be Mickey Loomis. I've got number four. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. That's okay.

So my number four is Brandon Bean slash Sean McDermen. Okay. You know, I think it's, again, it's kind of hard to, like, separate these two. It's like a partnership. But I think what they've done in identifying talent, like Trudevius White, you know, obviously the Josh Allen thing. is going to be a franchise changing decision to trade up and take him.

The trade for Stefan Diggs was inspired. I think they've gone from, you know, like it also ran to like a very deep, talented roster on both sides of the ball. They're set up for success long term. They stick to their plan. They know, they have an identity. I just think everything you want like from a GM slash coach like partnership,

they've just done a really good job of marrying that and making it work. So yeah, I would say Brandon Bean is my number. four. Bean is my number two. It was interesting. Mine as well. I was studying the roster today, and I was thinking, I was looking at some of the contracts, stuff like that. They're second in the NFL middle class spending, which we kind of know what that means. It's guys who are not on the rookie deal, but not top top for agents. And you just look at the amount of holes that they filled using, A, the draft. And if you include Sean McDermott as the drafter, and obviously he was there

before Brandon Bean, and he has some say in it, then you can, you can have, you can have. Dionne Dawkins, Stradavius, White, Matt Milano on this list of talent, but obviously Bean was hired after that. But they have just gone out, and whether it's the offensive line, whether it's the defense, they've just gone out and found these mid-level veterans. I remember talking to Bean about it. And he was saying it was almost influenced by the Patriots in their run and how many guys they had making $9 million who could just solve problems for them.

And that's what they did. Josh Allen is an incredible choice. And it almost, you have to grade it on a curve because it's just the doubting that went on. but he is, it was an MVP candidate last year. And he made a lot of people like me look incredibly stupid. And there's something to be said for that, Nora, Brandon Bean. Also my number two. Cool.

We already gave our number threes. Danny, who's your number two? My number two is Kevin Colbert from the Steelers. And, you know, again, the list of first round hits over the years is really, really strong. He's got like a handful of misses. But I kind of look at like first round. round drafting is like the clean pocket passer rating for a quarterback. Like these are the picks that you should be hitting on.

And Colbert has been so consistent, so consistent in finding guys that are going to stick around, play their second contract. He's found obviously an incredible amount of elite talent receivers over the years. He's like the receivers whisperer for whatever reason. And yeah, just overall building strong, like I said, strong championship caliber teams year and you're out. And he's done that a lot of the time with having to massage, you know, big contract from the quarterback.

So he's still kept them competitive, even though they're paying a lot of money to Ben Rothsberger. So, yeah, I'd say just the length of time, his tenure, you know, just ability to keep Steelers competitive every year, it seems like. And find new talent, find new ways to acquire guys. Like the Minkafids factory trade was huge. And so, yeah, I think just overall his track record is incredible. he's my number one

and the best compa that you can give is that they're competitive every single year. I remember somebody talking to me in the league when the Browns were tanking and they were just, and I listen, I was pro Sashi and all that stuff, but they were joking. They were just like, has anyone noticed that the Steelers are good every single year? They never have to tank. Like they're just

quietly go about their business and it's Juju, it's Chase Claypool, it's Yante Johnson just in the last few years. The line he built needs a retool, but I have faith that they will get to the point where they were a couple years ago. Cameron Hayward, T.J. Watt, trading for Micka Fitzpatrick on the defense. They just draft starters.

And I was looking again in some of the contracts they gave out. They basically spent, if you look at over the cap, they basically spent the least amount on free agency from 2017 to 2020 and still had a really good winning percentage. They kind of have a metric that is record versus free agent spending. And the Steelers are in this quadrant, just like doesn't spend any money and still wins. They just, they plug their holes. They typically, when they draft a guy, that player ends up doing what they hope he will do.

And there were a couple whiffs, but I would say more so than not, they know exactly what they're doing when they acquire a player. Part of this is Mike Tomlin, who talked about him last week. I think he's a terrific coach, but I think Kevin Colbert has established a franchise there

and a roster that I think is pretty much, pretty much as good as it gets. Number one, Danny Kelly. So I don't remember where you guys, have him if you even have him on your list. So I'm going Bill Belichick for the Patriots. I understand that the last few years, his drafts, his drafts have been pretty.

Unbelievable. If this was, nor and I get, Nora and I get accused of being Patriots homers with no evidence whatsoever. And then we don't have Belichick on our list. And our guest comes in and ranks Bill Belichick number one. Neither of you guys have him on your list. Not as a GM.

I have him on my number one wedding guest list. I don't. So this I, this I don't get because. Number two, coach. if this was a drafting talent, just like ranking or whatever, he probably wouldn't,

he would definitely not be number one. However, I think there's more like there's more to being, you know, 17 division titles, nine Super Bowl, six Super Bowl wins. There's more to that than just being a good coach.

You have to have the talent. You have to have the flexibility to find different ways to build championship rosters. He's, the way that he's done, you know, massage the salary cap over the years. used trades, signed free agents and rehabilitated their careers.

And even just looking at his draft, like the last few years hasn't been strong, clearly. It's been bad. However, like, if you look all the way back to like 2000, there's tons and tons of elite level players, like future Hall of Famers on his list. And by the way, he drafted Tom Brady. Doesn't he get credit for that?

Like, I think the body of his work, to me he's like the head chef at like a Michelin Star restaurant. Like he's setting the menu. He's figuring out where the food's coming from. And he's doing the cooking. Like, I don't know how you can separate him as a coach versus him as a GM versus him as a team builder, a championship builder. I just don't know how you separate that. So I think you're looking.

I think you just hit on why Nora and I don't have them on our list is because he is the greatest coach in the history of football, bar none. And like literally, I don't even think it's a debate. I have, you know, right now, we did our coaching list last year, and I'd say for 2021, Andy Reid's in better position than Bill Belichick, but over the last 21 years, I don't think it's, it's even arguable. But, but I think that it's hard for me. It's kind of like what we talked about at the beginning of this. He established a system that was perfect. It was cutting, essentially cutting corners and for agency and getting these guys on discounted contracts and ruthless salary cap management. If we can save a million dollars, you will. It was perfect.

It was the plan was perfect. But I think this list is about acquiring and identifying talent. And in 2021, I don't think he's done that good of a job. Also, they drafted Tom Brady in the sixth round. Tom Brady is like one of the best decisions for a franchise, if not the best in NFL history. But the impressive thing about the Tom Brady thing was a coaching decision. It was the decision to go, you know what, the sixth round kid is the future of our franchise. and should get reps and should start over Drew Bledso.

That to me is a much harder choice to make than it is. This guy who actually a lot of people thought would go a little higher in the draft is still available. We like him. We should take him in the sixth round. That to me is an impressive coaching decision much more than it is an impressive personnel decision. So, yeah, and I get that. I think I'm not like even using Paradeas as like my number one thing because that's number one, ancient history.

and number two, like you said, he passed on him five times or however many rounds. And so that's not the big argument for me, but however, I just think you guys are probably underrating the talent level of Patriots teams year in and you're out. He is the number one guy for that.

Maybe he's not an excellent NFL draft, you know, evaluator. He's probably been one of the best pro scouts in the league for 20 years. Like you look at the list of players that he's brought in. Randy Moss, West Welker, Corey Dillon, Stefan Gilmore, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrable, Dorel, Revis,

Junior Seo, Patrick Chung. Like, the list of hits that he has in Free Agency, you can't discount that because he's an elite coach. I think he's built highly talented, really balanced, you know, like championship level teams, year in and year out. It's like they're good every year. It's more than him just being a good coach. I don't know.

Let me push back on that. Let me push back on that because, okay, let's take Rob Ninkovich as an example of a guy who was in Miami was probably working his way out of the league at some point just because I remember I was covering him in Miami wasn't a lot of hype around Rob Ninkovich. And then

Belichick gets him, puts him in the exact right role and he becomes, I don't know if he's in the Patriots Hall fan, but he seems like he's in the Patriots and that's an example of Belichick being able to take anybody and making their, not anybody, obviously Rob Ninkovich was a terrific player.

But he got into that system was only asked to do the things he could do and flourished. And that to me is Belichick, the coach, Kyle Van Noy. That to me is Belichick, the coach and Belichick the football mind. And that's why I have him as the best coach of all time, not the best GM. I think that Belichick, the coach is so good that he makes Belichick the GM, which I think has been good, but not, not, you know, he's not Oz Newsom here. I think that that has,

it's hard for me to separate and put him in number one on this list. Yeah. And so I totally understand where you guys are coming from. However, I cannot separate the coach from the GM because he's the one who went and decided to get Nikkovich because he saw whatever in his skill set. I can coach this guy up. He could play a very specific role for me.

How do you separate the guy who's saying, hey, we want to target this guy because I believe I can coach him up to be a great player? I don't think you can separate it. So that's why he's number one on my list. But I understand where you're coming from. And I think the draft hits are obviously glared. The draft misses, I should say, of later, obviously glaring. But at the end of the day, I can't separate him being a coach versus him being a talent

evaluator and saying, hey, look, I want to go get this guy. We're going to be convicted in our decision to go grab this guy because I believe I can coach him up and put him in my scheme and make him great. So I don't, I can't differentiate those two things. I just at the risk of Bill Belichick not accepting my invitation to my future wedding if he were not such an incredible coach we would have,

it would be even an even starker relief that they have lit draft picks on fire for several years running. Yeah. I get that. I get that. If Kevin Colbert were on Belichick staff picking wide receivers,

he'd be number one. Belichick would have won a Super Bowl and like, shut it down. Also, Also, here's one thing. Here's one thing. Is everybody who's like, oh, they missed on these draft picks, whatever.

And then their argument is, well, they won the Super Bowl in those years. They won the Super Bowl shortly thereafter. I'm on your side. Like, Bill Belichick is amazing. He's the one that's able, he and Tom Brady are the one that's able to overcome this. I am in awe of the Patriots organization all the time. I'm reading a book right now called The Dynasty by Jeff Benedict that's just like detailing how good they are at this. No one's ever done it better.

but this is a list of general managers. Yeah, but you're saying, you literally are making the argument that he's the best general manager of all time by saying this organization is the best that ever do it. They find edges in every corner of the gate, like, in every way.

I think that's Belichick, the coach, taking the people, the Belichick the GM gives to him and making them into the perfect patriot. Yeah, but isn't being a GM making the decisions like finding the margins in the salary cap, finding the margins in like zinging,

when everyone else is zagging, like we're going to sign a bunch of free agents this year because blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't see the difference. I really can't differentiate. I'm not that. My argument for not including him on this is maybe a little bit different.

If it were a few years ago, he would definitely be on it for me. Yes. I've allowed my list to be a recency bias list. Yeah, yeah. And yikes. Yeah. I am a reason.

There's a reason freaking Andrew Barry is on my list because I think going into 2021 at the end of the year, we're going to talk about him as one of the best general managers. I don't think we're going to be talking about that with Bill Belichick.

Again, I adore Bill Belichick. I've probably written more about Bill Belichick than any other human being in football. And I just don't think that he is a, in 2021, in the 2021 season, a top 10 general manager. So?

Danny had a hard out 10 minutes ago, and he could have bailed on this conversation. At any point, he's so worked up about this Belichick thing. By the way, by the way, when I was doing this list, I felt empowered by Warren Sharp, not putting Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVey on his list.

I was like, whatever. Whatever, we're just, this is a safe space now. We can just do whatever we want. All right. We have to say, Arjuna wants this all to say our top 10 list in order. So, Danny, you want to start us out?

Okay. Number one, Bill Belichick. Two, Kevin Colbert. Three, Mickey Loomis. four, Brandon Bean, five, Jason Light, six, Chris Ballard, seven, Rick Spielman, eight, Brett Veach, slash Andy Reid, nine, Jerry Jones, and 10, John Lynch. Okay, I'll go one, Kevin Colbert, number two, Brandon Bean,

number three, Chris Ballard, number four, Tom Telesco, number five, Brett Beach, number six, Jason Light, number seven, John Schneider, number eight, less need, number nine, Andrew Barry, number ten, Rick Spielman. Nora? Mine is number one, Chris Ballard, number two, Brandon Bean, number three, Jason Light, number four, Mickey Loomis,

number five, Brett Beach, number six, Kevin Colbert, number seven, Tom Telesco, number eight, Andrew Barry, number nine, John Robinson, 10, Joe Douglas. Fantastic. All right, get to it, Daniel.

All right, see you guys. All right, Nora, Danny had a heart out here to leave. I think that I think that Belichick not being a top 10 GM is like a mainstream opinion. Like Gray Rosenthal and NFL.com had him as number 18. Is this just where Danny leaves and then we like crap on his opinions? Well, I would love for him to have been there.

He had to record another podcast as is, it's Ringer Life. Back to Back to Back Podcast, baby. I don't know if I've ever seen D.K. That worked up. I think he's going to. And the occasional Seahawks topic. I would say this. It's a good thing.

Neither of us are on the West Coast or else he would want to meet us in a mall parking lot or something. He was pretty worked up. Danny's not inclined towards violence. I didn't think so until until we besmirched Sony and Michelle. I was really, I was surprised by that. I was surprised by that. Yeah, it was great.

Great episode. Thank you so much for coming on Danny Kelly. Noah Prince, Chiadi, and I will be back. We'll be back next Monday. We will start training camp shows, essentially. I'm very glad the NFL is back. nor are you excited at the NFL's back? So excited.

Yes. All right. So we're thrilled. We're going to have more episodes coming to you in late July, obviously early August, getting a more regular schedule, more regular seasony schedule. Thank you so much to Stefan Anderson

for production help, additional production help by Arjuna, Graham Capult. It's been the Ringer NFL show on The Ringer podcast.