The Ringer NFL Show - Top 10 Quarterbacks of 2021

Episode Date: August 5, 2021

Kevin and Nora are joined by the newest addition to The Ringer NFL team, Benjamin Solak. They start by picking their top three quarterbacks for 2024 (3:45). Then they discuss who they think the top 10 quarterbacks will be this season (10:05). Hosts: Kevin Clark and Nora Princiotti Guest: Benjamin Solak Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From in-depth analysis of basketball and football to life advice, Ryan Rusillo has got you covered on the Ryan Rusillo podcast. Join him as he talks to some of the best names in sports while providing sharp analysis and wit you won't find elsewhere. Check out the Ryan Rusillo podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It is the Ringar NFL show, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. I am Kevin Clark. Join today for a top 10 quarterback placed by Nora Prince of Adi.

Nora, what's going on? Not much, Kevin got a wedding this weekend. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. God. How is that prep been for you? I haven't gone to a wedding now. It's good. Yeah, I feel like I'm really in the zone. I kind of know how I don't work. You know, they say like with a quarterback, obviously the biggest jump is from year one to your two. And I feel like for a wedding. Yeah, for a wedding, you know, having gotten one rep under your belt, you're going to be ready for it.

And Benjamin Solac, the newest ringer staff writer, a resident of Kalamazoo, Michigan. We spent a lovely afternoon in Kalamazoo yesterday. I know that sounds fake, but I was going from Detroit to Green Bay. And we were talking. I was like, hey, where are you? I'd love to get a coffee with you at some point. And I was in Kalamazoo that day driving through on 9-94. It was, it was lovely, Ben. Yeah, it was extremely lucky. I appreciate you swinging by.

I've attended 15 weddings in my life. I counted it before this podcast. I'm still, my mind is still blown. I will say this. I think that most listeners, and we've gotten some feedback on this, I would say most listeners at this point have counted up the wedding. that they've gone to.

And they hadn't before this. I'm just saying it's rearranged some stuff in people's lives as far as figuring out if they're where on the curve they are. I legitimately, I had to sit down and figure it out because Nora was so nonchalant when she announced it was her first wedding that I was like, am I the weird one? And I counted and I was like, maybe I am, but I don't think so. Can I just put it out there that my stance was never that my wedding attendance is typical.

It was just that it's not completely. completely off of the grid. That it is possible through a combination of the age of your family members, your friend's tendencies to reach the age of 27 and go to your first wedding. We don't need to relitigate this right now. So we'll just move on. Benjamin Kalamazoo was very nice. I'm a Michigan guy.

Like, I might be a Michigan man. I'm only there from like July and August because it's training camp. and I usually have a good time. Everybody who's in Detroit tends to love it. Like you always like some of these guys with the line. I love Detroit. Dan Campbell. Dan Campbell loves Detroit. Dan Campbell is all in Detroit.

Dan Campbell loves a lot of things. He does love a lot of things. We're going to have some thoughts on that on the ringer.com. Spent some time with our boy Dan a couple of days ago. It's going to be great. We're going to do top 10 quarterbacks. I want to start with an exercise at three guys yesterday. Actually, Ben, when we were sitting outside yesterday, I thought about this.

And I told Nora last night, I want to just do your guys's top. three quarterbacks in 24 very quickly before we get to the top 10 because I think it does a good job of informing the list because I think that this list, almost like the GM list, it's a nightmare to assemble because it's like, okay,

does a guy who's been good for five years get it out, Justin Herbert, for instance, the small sample size there in relation to Matthew Stafford and the fact that, okay, Matthew Stafford's changing coaching staff, so is it going to be better? What is this even ranking? I mean, it is, it's the football version of the wedding conversation,

where it just gets a bit existential. And you're just like, wait, why did this happen? It's all about circumstances, you know? So let's start. Ben, top three quarterbacks in 2024. All right. So Rogers will be 40. I don't trust that he'll still be around, but it's possible.

Brady will be like 68 or something. Yeah, Brady's my number one. Yeah, he'll be the best. He'll be 68 years old and he'll be the top quarterback. I know in not putting him in this top three that he's going to end up in this top three. Like, it's just in finding it out. I'm proud of us for all making the same joke there. When we thought about this exercise,

I thought to myself, somebody's going to need to make a Tom Brady joke. All clearly having that joke ready to go. We all, at CB Campbell, we arrived at it independently. So yeah, so it's no,

I don't have Brady. I don't have a Rogers. So Mahomes is top of that list for me. And then I have my, the top of my tier two quarterbacks when we eventually rank them, which is Russ and then Dak Prescott. And that's not the big fancy names, right?

That's not Alan with the arm or Lamar with the running ability or even like Herbert and some of these younger guys that are coming up. But Dak has the sort of game that persists, right? Even if he's dealing with nagging injury, so much of his game is cerebral. So to me, he's going to, he's very high floor. He's going to stay up there. And then even with Russ having a little bit of a down year, I still think that there's enough body of work.

There's enough consistency for a guy who just does not lose games. And regularly over the course of his career has overcome a lot to win. games that even if he starts to tail off, he's still so doggone good. So I go Mahomes one, Russ, two, DAC three. Nora? All right. So I have the same one and three as Ben. Mahomes kind of feels like a, feels like goes out saying, yeah,

Dak will be 31 at that point. And as Ben said, he's just such a, such a good processor, already so good. But I think the quarterbacks who clearly have that superior, just mental ability, they get better with age, right? The famous Tom Brady quote about having the answers to the test before you're taking the test.

The more DAC plays, I think the more he will get into that kind of, you know, right now I think it's sort of the Brady Rogers zone where they've seen everything and they're still physically capable of doing a lot, but it's also just that the game is, it's easier, it's slower for them at this point.

And Dak to me is a quarterback who the closer he gets to that and the more just time he spends playing football, the results could be pretty spectacular. My number two, I'm going to be honest, I just kind of went for it here. I just decided I wanted to do something fun. I chose Zach Wilson, which is just a massive projection. But we, I mean, first of all, like, what do you know about the year 2024? We know nothing about it.

Absolutely nothing. So my point here in this choice is to say that, okay, we have one year of Zach Wilson being an amazing, amazing quarterback and nothing else. He does have some of the tools that would correlate to being able to have like a sort of top end career if he hits the, you know, the 95th percentile of how he would project out. He's got a really quick release, great arm, really good out of structure. He's used to, at least in terms of the year when he was so good, running that outside zone-based scheme that he'll probably work within a ton throughout his career.

and he just seems like for a quarterback who I also think could kind of bust out, he has a really, really, really, really high ceiling. So I just decided to go for it. Ben, that whole time had the smirk on his face while she was giving that take. Like, I don't know, maybe this is like oddly specific, but like it's when your friend's doing something kind of dangerous but really cool, like dropping in on like a half pipe with a bike or something and just like, okay, this might go weird, but here we go.

No, because I love it because it's not only just like, and Trevor Lawrence because, you know, we have no idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought about that. Because, like, Lawrence has been this myth. It's Wilson because we're all always wrong anyway. You know what I mean? I agree with that. Yeah.

So, to me, that's a ton of fun. I also, like, Loki didn't really like Zach Wilson coming out. And so for me, it's also like, whoa. So I think it's fun. To be clear, I also think he could suck. Yeah. But I also think he could be really amazing. Ben, is their quarterback?

That tends to be how. What a fascinating. Yeah. Yeah, wow. As Terminator 2 said, the future is what we make it, right? Isn't that the quote? Carved into the wood there.

If that's not the quote, don't get mad of me, T2 heads. All right, Ben, so like, is there another quarterback who hasn't taken an NFL snap whether in college or pro that is, like, the best prospect?

Like, is Trevor Lawrence like the best going to be the best, like, of the guys who have not played right now is, like, Lawrence, is that crew going to be the best or is there like a sophomore that when you start talking about? I mean, I think that Rattler, Spencer Rattler is the quarterback of Oklahoma and he's eligible this year. I think that he's the most Mahomes arm we've had since Mahomes, which is not a

fair way of saying it. But when the ball comes off his hand, it's just stupid. Doesn't look like it's supposed to look. It's unbelievably effortless. And he's got every throw. He's got every arrow in his quiver. He's a knucklehead 15% of the time. If you can get it down to like five this year, we're cooking with gas. I think it's going to be the number one overall pick. Smaller, a little more frail, and that's going to be a conversation as well, the same thing as the Kyler conversation.

But Rattler's special in terms of his arm talent, more so than Lawrence was. Lawrence had all the other boxes checked. So I would say Lawrence probably is still that guy, but man, when I watch Rattler's best throws, I feel something in my gizzard. That kid can throw. I was about to mention that you said knucklehead,

which is fantastic, and then you said gizzard, then. Yeah. We're cooking with gas already here. The Terminator 2-Cort is there's no fate but what we make for ourselves and no fate was carved into the Lord. If I had seen the movie, I would have corrected you, but... It's an amazing movie.

I'm just, I'm in a parking lot in Green Bay. I'm all scattershadowed. I got a lot of meetings today. So I'm off of my T2 knowledge. It happens. We're all rooting for you, Kevin. It's training camp for everybody. All right, let's get to our top 10 quarterbacks.

I'm really excited to do this. And I was waiting for Ben to start, to have a start date in order to get there. Do you not have a top three, Kevin? Oh, I'm sorry. Jesus Christ. I got so wrapped up in T2. it is exactly your list except at Josh Allen instead of DAC.

Okay. Yeah. So there we go. All right. Top 10 quarterbacks. Norprinciiety number 10. Number 10. Justin Herbert.

Yeah. Me too. He's your number 10. Yeah. That feels like sort of a low probability that we would have the same. You know, 10 is a lot of quarterbacks. Did you cheat on the test? Do you hack me?

Yeah. Did you own my take so? badly? It is. I, who have approximately four computer issues a day, pulled all of my mental energy into hacking into your mobile devices so that I can get your Justin Herbert takes. Spend my life school, Kevin. Spell it out for us. So, fantastic rookie season, right? And I think even this year, we're looking to see if some of the situational stuff, particularly, early down performance will hold up. But he's young.

I think that's a factor. And having seen just the first year, I think if you project that, look, as we were just talking about, typically, biggest jump, year one to year two. So I think the first, the rookie season, in a good environment, except for the curse that haunts the Chargers,

is enough to merit inclusion. I think if this were based on pure performance and we had a larger sample size, he'd done this for five years. He might be higher up this list. Like Justin Herbert still gets dinged for going into a second year and there's only being one year of data here, data, which was skewed a little bit because, you know, fantastic on third down. Pulled some plays out of his ass. But it was good enough that I think, I think he squeaks into the top ten. Yeah, I'm the same way. So I spent the time in Buffalo this week wrote a story about it for the Turner.com about Josh Allen and sort of the making of an improving quarterback and kind of what the lessons are.

And I just put it to Josh. And I was like, what lessons should the next team that's drafting prospect like you learn from you? And talked about the line, talked about the weapons. He talked about, I mean, Bean talked about just sort of having how much crap that Allen had to eat in the first year because they had $60 million in dead money because they were basically rebuilding. And they took the quarterback before they started the real rebuild. And when I look at the next team that is going about things the right way, it's the Chargers. Like they immediately upgraded the line this year in for agency with the kind of mid-level veterans, exactly what the bills did, by the way.

They already had, and obviously Keenan Allen has been there for a long time. Sorry, I think that was just a Corey Lindley stray. Mid-level, it's a good center. No, I mean, like, mid-level is, like, Mitch Morse is a good center, too. Yeah. I just, they're not, they're not like $40 million guys. Yeah. That's all.

They're not just going out there and just getting the top of the market guys. But no, Corey Lindsay is a really good center and the same way Mitch Morse is a good center. And so, and Matt Filer is good and the same way John Feliciano was good. I mean, like that, that's just sort of, they, they went out and kept Allen upright. So I think this is more of, listen, if we were just doing like armed talent and, you know, and pure quarterback performance, this list would be wholly different. but I think Herbert's going to make a pretty sizable jump this year because the charges are taking the exact right steps. Ben, so like, you do not have Herbert Numer 10, if I remember correctly.

That's correct. Yeah, I have him at 12, which it goes to the Norris point, which is, you know, you've done it for a year. That's tremendous. Let's see it for another, right? I tend to always be fearful of that. And especially when it's a case where a player was so much better under pressure than he was when it was clean.

And we know that, you know, clean pocket performance is a lot stickier than under pressure performance. especially because Herbert was very, very good when he was pressured. He was not very, very good when he was blitzed, which is an important distinction because it means he was doing it a lot in terms of his physical ability and the mental, the recognition wasn't exactly what was getting him there. With that said, when you put the film on,

you see the flashes of really good against the blitz. You see the flashes of really good processing. So you believe that he's going to round it out. It's just, yeah, I'd like to heat check it. I'd like to see it. And so I have him at 12. I'll be very happy if I'm low on him because that means he's ascending and that's exciting stuff.

Hey, Ben, I have a quarterback question. quarterback door question. Oh, I love quarterback door questions. I've heard from a couple of people in the last few years that they think younger quarterbacks are better against the Blitz and younger quarterbacks 10 years ago, 15 years ago because kind of 10,000 hour rule, you know, having played so many more reps, they're playing year round now, like they're better identifying it. Is it, if you're bad against the Blitz now, is that a bad sign?

Or is that I just, you know, do young quarterbacks catch up quickly? Like what is the kind of the new rule on being bad against the blitz early? I would say the biggest change that we've seen is everything's going to be tied to mobility and how willing quarterbacks are to move and how much teams are willing to work around quarterbacks who move. And so your answers to the blitz in terms of, all right, there's a blitz coming off your strong side. You have to throw a strong side, replace the blitzer, right, throw to where the vacuum is. That hard and fast rule is no longer the case, especially as quarterbacks get shorter and thinner. Because now it's harder to throw into the blitz because it's harder to see.

over the line. It's harder to take the hit. So now we're coming up with new options, which include being able to get outside of the pocket, much deeper and more diverse, complex scramble rules, and then the ability to make those plays on the run. Wide receivers are a lot more comfortable making those plays on the run. So I would say if there's anything that holds there, it's more so what gets created outside of structure and the willingness for offensive coordinators to let their offense exist outside of structure and not say, all right, we need to make sure we have a hot route in every single circumstance. Because when you have Mahomes or Kyler or Russ back there, hot routes aren't going to do my. These guys are going to get outside of the pocket. They're

going to want to throw that anyway. So you might as well not put it in structure and let them just take the play where it goes. That's interesting because, you know, Vich has talked about how you scout differently from Mahomes, kind of what you're talking about with that stuff and, you know, what happens when either the play breaks down or just guys who are more comfortable in chaos. And I think that Alan, you'd probably need to do that more with, I don't know about Herbert, but that remains to be seen. All right. Ben Stillak, number 10. Matthew Stafford, quarterback for the Rams, who I think I'm low on him relative to consensus. Mike Sandos, QB rankings, or QB tiers, excuse me, had him like tied for seventh,

which was a huge jump for a guy who just did the same thing in Detroit that he's usually done in Detroit. And so it's kind of that McVeigh bump, and it's that anticipated boon that that scheme and that system is going to give him. In terms of what he is as a quarterback, Stafford at 10 remains for me what he usually has been, which is a fringe top 10 quarterback. He's at the top of tier three for me. And he's a player with every tool, as has been the case since he was number one drafted. He's an extremely fun player to root four. He's a player who can make that play on third and 15 that few quarterbacks can make.

But he remains less consistent than some of the guys that you see in the top, in tier two and above. It's less accurate than some of those guys. And so the book on Stafford to me is quite clearly written. He's a tremendous player to route for. He's the exact sort of guy you want in your locker room. But he just isn't as consistent as a top tier quarterback. and while I think the McVeigh offense is going to maximize his better plays, more so than really any offense he played in Detroit,

save for maybe that 2019 stretch, I do think he still just should be that fringe top 10 guy. I think that's the appropriate ranking for him. Nora, where do you have Matt Stafford? I have him number nine. So pretty close. Okay, then you have the floor. Well, big playability.

Great. Really good downfield passer, right? And as Ben said, just kind of what he has always been. And that, it's funny, making this list made me really psyched up for this Ram season. Because that's a fascinating situation, right? Take a guy who's been very good, not great, a little streaky, consistently for a really long time in one environment and throw him in another.

First of all, I'm curious to find out if the Sean McVeigh bump is stronger for peripheral coaches or for quarterbacks, right? but it's going to be a really interesting situation just because, you know, you change one variable. And I mean, it's a set of variables with different supporting cast, different scheme, different coach, whatever. But it'll be fascinating to see Stafford in a new environment because it's just kind of been usually what it's been. And he's had good receivers. So I don't think, I think sometimes there's this idea that like, oh, you got to, you know, he's going from the Lions where they haven't made the playoffs. and he's going to go to the Rams and it's going to be amazing.

I think we are occasionally forgetting that, you know, he's played with really, really, really good pass catchers throughout his career and has still been up and down. So I don't totally get it when Stafford is on these lists in the 5 to 7 range, but I think he is a top 10 quarterback. I want to stop you right there. Ben, we were talking yesterday in the Rigger NFL group chat, that there's some wild lists out there.

there's some wild lists out there yeah somebody put zack wilson number two for twenty twenty four it's wild oh wow yeah um that's yeah we're actually gonna start a new group chat without you norah just to talk about that particular ranking um all right so

i have stafford number eight um i'll just i'll just get to it now um i think that this this to me was really hard because stafford's going to be better than he ever has been as long as he's healthy So we had the thumb thing. I think he's going to be fine. But I feel like, even though Sean McVeigh is well documented for being an offensive genius and all that stuff, I just think that we forgot how bad Jared Gough was at one point. And how that in 2016, he was one of the worst quarterbacks, not only in the league,

but in rookie history, not first round pick history, not first overall pick history. I'm talking about, like, one of the worst young quarterbacks who's ever who's ever strapped him up. We're looking at Andrew Walter type numbers if you looked at some of those comps. And Sean McVeigh made him into a competent quarterback who was worth a lot of money. I saw Jared Gough the other day in Detroit. No shots. Jared Gough is Jared Gough. Okay. And Sean McVeigh helped that along. And so to me, I think Matthew Stafford, Nora, the reason I think people are putting him in the top five is I think he's going to be really good this year.

But it's just going to be more about the fact that he's always been this good and Sean McVeigh is going to unlock him. That's why it's so hard to project going forward. I think Matthew Stafford's going to be awesome this year. He's just not like the top five best quarterback. I don't know. It's such a, this is a list where you can just kind of, eat your own tail. I think he's going to be really good, but I just think there's going to be, I don't know, five to seven plays where he throws a really bad pick

and people are going to react like, what? I never considered this as a possibility. And it's like, well, I don't know, man. Like, I don't know what leads you to believe that this wasn't going to happen. I would also say,

first of all, I don't think Matthew Stafford cares that much about, like, legacy and stuff. Like, I've talked to him about that. But, but, Matthew Stafford has been like the captain of this team where everyone says, God, could you imagine

Matthew Stafford if he had Sean Payton or Shaw McVeigh or Andy Reid? Could you imagine that? And if it's just fine, it's going to be a huge letdown. It turns out that Sean McVe gets the same results that like Jim Caldwell got, everyone in the football world is going to be so disappointed in this. Like, this is

supposed to be the thought experiment. Kevin, this is a bummer. What if we got Matt Stafford? You're harshing my vision. McVeigh offense. I'm just saying, we're setting ourselves up to be disappointed. Life is about managing expectations.

It's important to learn that. All right. Benjamin Solac number nine. All right. This is all very sad now, but I have Matt Ryan. Maybe this is my first soapbox of the ringer NFL show.

Yes, all right. Very happy. Matt Ryan is just very good. He's just very good. Our boss, our boss, Bill Simmons, who you'll meet, he does not.

not like Matt Ryan. And we've had arguments on podcast because he thinks that I'm Matt Ryan Stan just because I'm like Matt Ryan is good. He calls him your guy. He's so quietly good. He's so quietly and consistently good. And you watch the Atlanta film of like the last couple of years even. And the offensive line is so bad.

And he's just, he's a 35 year old, never was mobile man, just dealing with big guys right in his lap and doing the just gosh darn best that he can. And he's obviously a little bit less spry than he was. And his play against pressure is dropping. And I understand that. But nobody throws intermediate the way that Ryan does with the timing, with the anticipation, with the accuracy. He throws into tight windows with such confidence and still with such dip, even after 10 plus years in the league. He has just got every tool that you want for a pocket passer to execute a play action passing attack that goes intermediate and deep, which is not what he had the last couple of years.

It's what he had under Shanahan. I think it's what he's going to have under Smith. And so if you, I know, like we put Stafford at 10 and like, all right, he's maybe he's going to get a McVeigh bump. Ryan's going to get a Smith bump. And to me, Ryan has always been an interesting foil to Stafford and that he doesn't have the flash. He doesn't have the sex appeal. But he is so much more consistent. And so to me, Ryan belongs above Stafford.

He's at the top of my tier three. And then those two guys are linked. And they're both getting new coordinators. It's going to be interesting for both. But I do think Ryan is a slight edge. We're going to get the quote card out. Benjamin Solac. Matthew Stafford has sex appeal.

Yeah, he does, baby. Come on. Somebody need a. acknowledge that that was fantastic. Uh, okay, so I'm in agreement with you, Matt Ryan's been number nine.

I just kind of feel like his, you know, if you've, if you've won an MVP, if you've run one of the most efficient offenses of all time, you're really good quarterback. And I also, Nora,

I don't know how you felt about this relative to the, the GM list. I actually had a hard time ranking the top 10, but I actually felt like I didn't, there wasn't a number 11 where I was like, I'm dying to have this person on my list. Um, I feel that way in,

in general, there wasn't a number, 11, 12, 13 that I was dying to have on my list, which was the case with with the GMs. I think I wanted to go to like 15 and then felt like that would have been a solid group. There's like three good GMs and then 12 that are just the same guy.

Right. And quarterbacks are not like that at all. Spoiler alert, though. Matt Ryan is my number 11, basically. And he was the one where I was like, I really, really, really wish Matt Ryan was on this list. But it just came down to Herbie fully loaded versus

Wow. And I went with the younger guy. I chose, I was in a projecting mood. Youth movement? Yeah. Zach Wilson, Justin Herbert? The future is now. Ben Solac.

I love Gen Z. Are you Gen Z or are you something younger, Ben? I'm Gen Z. 1997's Gen Z, baby. You don't even know about the Brian Greasy, Michigan team. I know about it in theory. Imagine. In theory.

Yeah. I realized when you came visit Calamazoo that you went to University of Miami during the Randy Shannon era and I was like, oh. I did. I did. Colas Campbell.

Calais Campbell. Sam Shields was there. Yep. And seven total wins for that defense. Yeah. I'm trying to think, I mean, it was,

there was a lot of flameouts there. There's a lot of guys, you know, you're Sean Spences, although he had a bad injury. He was going to be awesome. A lot of like guys who didn't, got like,

one contract and they got like a training camp invite the next year. and that was it. So not a great era of Miami football. So that's it. All right. Ben Solac, number eight. All right.

So this is the bottom of my tier two. I really struggled to parse seven and eight. They're my toughest guys to choose who goes where. But I ended up with Lamar Jackson at eight. And I hate it. Oh. Yeah. Same C's.

Oh, no. He should be higher. Yeah. He should be higher. Nora, you've got him there as well? I have him at eight as well. Okay. Here's the thing.

I disagree. I could sit here for 10 minutes, take one breath and explain to you all the reasons why Lamar is much better than he looks like last season. But the reality is that he took step back last season. Yes, the receivers were worse. Yes, the passing game designs make me want to puke. Yes, the offensive line took a tremendous step back in pass protection. All of this contributed to do it. But the reality is that Lamar gets lazy with his mechanics.

And this has been going back to his time at Louisville, where if a throw is hard, Lamar is on it. Everything is exactly as it should look, and he's putting the ball into a tight window. And if the throw is easy, Lamar chills. And when he chills, he invites variance into his throwing motion, he invites variance into his base, and then that invites variance in his accuracy. And there's no reason for your second year in the league to be throwing like that. At some point, we kind of run out of patience with it, but it is unnecessary. It's creating additional obstacles to your already anemic passing offense that you do not need to be inviting.

And so there are little things that Lamar does that he doesn't check down early enough which again, it's because he has such great legs he doesn't feel like he needs to. There's little stuff that leaves meat on the bone. And so the passing game of Baltimore is going to get so much better either this year because of the wide receivers they added

or next year because they fired Greg Roman. It's going to be great. And he's going to go right back to MVP levels. It's going to be sick. But as for right now, it's difficult to rank him above some of the other guys in tier two because we've seen this little stuff

that he's not doing well. that it's very hard to see a near elite quarterback can get away with not doing this little stuff. So he does have things to clean up as much as it breaks my heart to say. Okay. Heard that, heard all the nuanced argument. Hate it.

Wrong. Yeah, that's a good point. Wrong. Can you expand on that, Kev? I mean, I don't know if I need to. I feel like the point's been made. I feel like Lamar Jackson still has. And listen, last year was, we don't need to go into all this again,

but it was the weirdest year in the history of football. The Ravens were among the teams that had the weirdest seasons. And by the way, Lamar tested positive for COVID the other day. He's been out of practice ever since. Having said that, I think Lamar Jackson's skill set and what he's shown has the ability to destabilize defenses more than any other player in the NFL of the side of the homes.

And when Lamar Jackson is comfortable in doing Lamar Jackson things, he is, this can be the second best quarterback in football. And I tend to have him higher on this list because I just think, you know, obviously they kind of were talking about the situation. They did an incredible job building around him. You know, he probably could get more weapon help and we can kind of dive into another show. But I feel like there were so many guys in 2019 who I talked to, linebackers, cornerbacks who were just like, we don't know what to do with this. We've forgotten him to play football because Lamar Jackson is Lamar Jackson. And I think that that takes a special player.

And until there's an injury or until he proves he cannot do this, I'm going to take that over last year and average those two out and weigh 2019 more heavily and rank him higher. Can we do a spoiler? Where is he on your list? He is number five. That's good. I hear everything that you are saying. I just think that part of that is, okay, when Lamar is comfortable, right?

Well, he's not always comfortable. And that I think is the issue is that Lamar... But I don't, I think he can turn... I think he's okay being uncomfortable and turning that into something. There are a handful of quarterbacks in Ben, maybe this is just something with young quarterbacks in the way they play now. They're comfortable in chaos. And Lamar Jackson is one of those guys.

Lamar Jackson can do things and stress defenses in ways that basically, you know, only a couple other players on the entire list can. But there is a difficulty in sort of the way that we talk about this, which is that a lot of people said really stupid things. So there's a tendency to not want to fall into that category. And it makes it harder to articulate with nuance that probably by, I don't know, a margin of five percent. or something, he is a little bit less good as a pure passer than the other quarterbacks on this list. And you make up for a lot of that with everything else that he can do and the stress that he can put on defenses. But that is still the most important part of playing quarterback. And when they get into a situation, we've seen it a number of times at this point when they have to play a more dropback passing game.

it is harder for him. And that's fine. Being the number eight quarterback in the NFL is pretty good. But it's just hard for me to see the argument for top five when it seems like we have a mounting pile of evidence that there is some limit to how far that can go. Yeah. I watched, I watched Lamar in prep for this because I wanted to, you know, I watched him and I watched my number seven to make sure I knew what I was talking about. Because you knew we were going to have this fight.

Yeah. And the thing is like in, in 2020, 2019 linebackers and corners are like, we have no idea what to do. In 2020, a lot of smart defenses sat in zone and said, everybody stare at that guy because he's going to leave and we got to be watching him because we can't spy him, right? You can all play man with a rat. There's no rat in the league who can follow Lamar Jackson when he breaks pocket. So we're to play zone.

And we're going to play top down and we're going to make him check the ball down and we're going to make them nickel and dime us down the field. And 75% of the Ravens struggles with that was. Greg Roman having no idea how to call a passing game, which, excuse me, Greg. Right, but that's a different. That's a different. Yeah, that's all that right. And like, it's just there's so much that's difficult about that and I understand that whatever. But the other 25% of, you know, okay, some of its past protection, you know, Marquise Brown doesn't know how to settle his routes for zone, whatever. If you're going to be good against zone, you've got to

be a quick, decisive, quick game, you have to be a decisive quick game thrower. Lamar Jackson led the league in time to throw last year. He doesn't want to be like that. And, and defense we're making him do it. And if you're going to be a top five, quarterback in the league. When teams sit in cover three, you should eat them alive in 2021. And in large part, because of his offense, but also a little bit because of him, he didn't. And so that's where, to me, that 5% of Norris talking about that margin is that I'd like to see him improve. It's interesting because sack percentage went up slightly. I was looking at the stats last night. Sack percentage went up slightly. It's around 7% now. He's obviously, when he holds

onto the ball, he's getting down to the ground. Still, I mean, obviously, I hate quarterback rating, but he still had 100 rating in a year where we were talking about how his passing took a step back. I agree with you. I think that the past game has to take a step forward. I thought I was going to take a step forward last year. We talked about this last year where John Harbaugh said the next evolution is him throwing deep because of the stress he puts on defenses. That didn't happen last year.

It did not happen. And I felt like kind of what you were talking about. I agree that they left some meat on the bone, especially in that kind of deeper passing game. And at some point, he's got to make those throws. And hopefully it's this year. I just think that last year coming off of a year, and I'll put Josh Allen on this bucket too. when you leap so much from one year to the next,

anything that's not, you know, Josh Allen's beginning 30% better every single year has been in the NFL. When that stabilizes, I don't think that we should treat it like it's, it's the worst thing it's ever happened. And so I think that Lamar has shown

that he is going to be elite until otherwise proven. And I think that even last year, he was quite elite. Quite elite. All right. My number eight is Matthew Stafford. number seven, Benjamin Solock. This is Josh Allen for me.

So this is the one that I had to parse was between these two of the same class. The two very, very exciting, very different quarterbacks. Allen has a similar argument to Herbert in the sense that, okay, you did it for one year, tremendous. I love it. It was delightful.

It was so much fun to watch. Please do it again. And I think that a lot of people have that sense about Allen because of what was believed about him coming out, right? And like Nora said, like there were a lot of difficult conversations about Lamar that makes it tough

to talk about him. with nuance. The same thing is true with Allen where he became everything that the Bills ever hoped he would be and all of his greatest proponents are now vindicated and validated by his performance.

Well, yes. There's still plenty of plays you can find on Josh Allen film where, you know, 35-yard depletion to Stefan Diggs. Yeah, but it was still probably a bad idea to throw that ball. You know, there is,

and I got in trouble with Bill's fans for not saying this with deafness on a PFF podcast during the summer, so I'll try to say it appropriately here. Bill's fans got mad about something? Yeah, yeah. There is arm arrogance to Josh Allen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember the tech.

He learns via experimentation. He likes to see what he can do. And that's very cool Monday to Saturday. And then sometimes on Sunday, it's not as cool. And so he is able to get away with a lot because of elite physical ability. And that's great. But there is a roller coaster nature to that that makes it a little bit difficult to fully believe that this is going to be sustained, this 2020 level,

of play over multiple seasons. I will so cheerfully eat crow if I'm wrong. But this this sort of play style tends to be high variance. And Mahomes has led people to believe that's not the case. He is the exception to me that proves the rule. So Allen at seven to me is appropriate for how well he played while also acknowledging that there's going to be more ups and downs from a week to week basis and a season to season basis in his game as opposed to a couple of players who I have ranked higher. It's interesting, you mentioned Mahomes because I thought the same thing about the experimentation. I mean, that's something that everybody in Kansas City talks about as far as just on a Wednesday or a Thursday in October. He'll just try a throw that he has no business trying.

And he's just testing his limits. And I think that as you said, the difference between doing that on Wednesday and doing it on Sunday is pretty significant. And I'll give you an example. Everybody knows Patrick Mahomes, and I've written this, I've talked to guys about this, everybody knows he can do it behind the back throw. and everybody but Patrick Mahomes has said he's going to do a behind the back throw in a game, but Mahomes like, I'll never, I'll never do it. And I kind of feel like Josh Allen's the type of guy who's like, you know what? If I can do a behind the back throw in a game, I'm probably going to do it.

We'll see how it goes. Do it, Josh. Mino was on his phone news day last year and he called him the most Yolo quarterback of all time. And I kind of agree with that. I love Josh Allen. I just spent some time with them this week. and I think that they played that whole thing exactly right. He's my number six.

And I think that the one thing we need to get comfortable with, kind of what I said about Lamar last time, the one thing we need to get comfortable with is you're not going to get 30% better every single year. And he might just be the same guy this year. And we need to be comfortable just understanding that what we saw last year was a historically good leap and not judge him too harshly.

Nora, number seven. So I wonder if this one's going to be spicy. My number seven is Baker Mayfield. Yeah. It is spicy. I'm turning my camera on for this. Is that a yeah to the spice or is that a yeah? That's a yeah.

That's a yeah. That's a yeah. So yeah. All right. I was excited for this one. It is very hard for me to ignore how good he was in the second half of last season. And I think a lot of that had to do with being in a very good system with good players around him, a really good coach.

But when Kevin Stavansky kind of got going there, opened up the playbook a little bit for him. Baker was incredible, particularly in a lot of very stable ways. So he was fantastic with a clean pocket, fantastic on early downs. Everything about his performance to me says this should be replicable.

And I don't think the situation's going to change for the worst anytime soon. I think you do have to build in, if you don't do it consciously, build in subconsciously a little bit who's around them what's going on. But yes, he's been up and down at times. There's been some times where it looks like he doesn't really know how to play the position. It's very concerning.

But I am still a strong Baker-Mayfield believer. And I think the Browns are going to be really good this season. So that's a part of it too. Benjamin Solac, Baker-Mayfield. No quarterback last year had fewer non-play action, non-RPO, non-rollout dropbacks in Baker. That's what I always go back to, is that, like, firstly, I'm a big, like, I don't want to see it more than one year.

So with Baker, it's, I want to see it more than half of the year. Yeah, yeah, right. And it's funny because I was chatting through this list with other people, and a couple people had Baker hire, and I was like, I want to be there with you. Like, I'm happy to believe in Baker because he's a fun guy to root for, and I do like his skill set. It's just very tough for me to get there, especially because the longer that season went on, and the more productive Baker became,

it's not that the kiddie gloves were coming off. It's that they were going on. And it's that Stefansky was figuring out the rhythm and how to assist this guy. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's Stefansky's job. But it is simply to say that the process of figuring out Baker led to a little bit more padding in the offense

as opposed to him figuring it out in the first half of the season and then kind of growing into a more mature version of the offense. So I think to me that's an important distinction. Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And if you, there's skill to play action. People think like play action is just this, this, you know, panacea, right? There's skill to doing it well. Baker's got it.

He sells a play fake like his life depends on it. We love it. But there, he does get the, the kid seat a little bit still. And to me, that's tough to put up here in Lake Tier 2. All right. Number seven for me is Dak Prescott. This is just an example that life is not fair because Dak Prescott is an elite quarterback. He is as good as these guys and the guys above him.

I have Josh Allen above him, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson. he's in that mix. The only thing for me is the question marks. It's a sporting cast. I think, you know, the offensive line was banged up last year. It remains to be seen what happens this year. Obviously, he's coming off the injury and has a shoulder injury earlier in camp. There are just more for me.

Mike McCarthy is not a good coach. And among the coaches with these elite quarterbacks is probably the worst. And so I just have more question marks about that situation than any other. but I still think that he's an elite quarterback. And so the only reason I have him in seven and not higher is just because I'm a little more sure on the top guys what that looks like and the position they're putting to succeed. Am I wrong, Ben Zolak? I think, right. I have DAC what I think is quite high relative to maybe general media consensus.

I don't know about us on this podcast. But I think it's for the same reason, just the other side of the coin. DAC is always right. It's obnoxious. Like watching him is annoying because he's just always getting you in the right situation. And it's the saving grace of the McCarthy-era Cowboys. And it was long the saving grace of the Jason Garrett era Cowboys where Dak's just walking out here. All right, I've got West Coast concept on that half of the field.

West Coast concept on this half of the field. Let's read a whole defense, be correct pre-snap, change protection. There was a third and seven against Seattle. where he just just walks up to the line, changes protection, still gets a hard count off, gets the off sides, and then throws just a beautiful scene to CD Lamb, where he's accelerating his drop

and he's changing his path so that he can get past the blitz, and it's just every little thing you can do right, he does right, and then the ball is money. And it protects CD Lamb from a hit too. He's so good of protecting his receivers from hits because he understands how defenders move. And so he's got such,

the combo of pre-and-post snap understanding is just delightful. And it gets, like I said, the Cowboys out of a lot of bad situations that other top quarterbacks don't have to do because they do have a little bit more in the offensive schemer perspective. And so to me, the model of the elite pocket passer who can just beat you with his head before the ball is snapped for 60 minutes is falling away. And Prescott's one of the last remaining bastions. And he's so much fun to watch for that reason. Hey, quickly. So PFF had the Cowboys at the 27th ranked. offensive line last year, but everyone obviously expects them to take a step forward because they're

going to get healthier. What did you notice last year in the small sample size that the DAC was out there about a supporting cast? Your biggest issue is, forgive me, Terrant Steel, right? So the, steel they had to have him play on the right side. Steel's given up a lot of very quick, immediate outside track pressure, right, high side pressure, which is pressure going to Dax's back shoulder, which means he now has to step up into the pocket a lot and accelerate his drop a lot. So now you're limiting how long you can go through your progressions. So you have to throw one to two because you're stepping right up into the teeth of the interior rush. He was so good at understanding how to work that very tight area of the pocket.

Nobody buys half a second in the lead the way DAC does. Like Brady does, Rogers does, but then it's Dak. He's right there in that conversation. Right. The other thing that was big for them was losing Blake Jarwin. Because Dalton Schultz can't run the seam and that's an important route for Kellyn Moore. So they had to do it with CD Lamb. And you want a bigger body and a bigger catch radius there, a bit of a denser guy.

And so they have to throw that to lamb. And again, that means he's got to throw it quicker. He's got to throw it before the safeties get there. So there were things that accelerated his process that he was able to get through. If we get better pass protection and we're able to work deeper routes with Marty Cooper, deeper routes with Michael Gallup, who I love to death. Michael Gallup is so stinking good. You're going to see Prescott get from two to three.

And you're going to see him start moving safeties. And you're going to get even more explosive passing gains. That receiving core is ready to go. Offensive line, I'm not sold on. But if they get the outside pressure right, he's going to get more time in the pocket, bigger gains. All right. Norprinciotti number six. Josh Allen.

And look, I think we've pretty much covered it with Josh. The Yolo captain of the NFL universe kind of makes you grip the table with with white knuckles a little bit at the start of every play. But he's spectacular. And he's one of the most fun quarterbacks to watch in the entire game. I mean, maybe second to Mahomes. I think. It's a different kind of fun in some situations, but yes.

Yeah, but it's like, okay, truly anything can happen. Anything that's ever happened on a football field is in play when Josh Allen. It's absolutely in play. Holmes operates close to that zone, but with just a little bit more rational perspective, I think. Josh is just going for it and it's fantastic. Would love to see him do it more consistently, keep it going. maybe, you know, you don't want, and I've talked to that this,

that coaching staff about this, you don't want to totally coach the Yolo out of him. Right. Because you want a quarterback who's going to go for those plays. You want a quarterback who's going to, you know, try to hit the home run ball occasionally when it makes sense.

Now, are there a handful of those every year that they would prefer he didn't attempt? Absolutely. And I think if you gave the bill's truth serum, and asked if you could inch him towards that a little bit, they would like to. But again, the trick is doing it without taking out what makes him great.

Plus, I just love Josh Allen, and he loves Justin Bieber, and I love Justin Bieber. Ben Solac, number six. So this is what I have Deshawn Watson, which I... He's not on my list.

Yeah, I didn't rank him either. Yeah, I wasn't sure whether or not we were. I'm very happy to talk about my 11th instead. because I have no real interest in saying good things about the Sean Watson. Yeah, he's until here's the thing. It's like I think Nora and I agree with he's in this zone for us if if there were no other extended circumstances. But there's just I don't I don't think he can be on the list right now.

All right. I'm talking about Ryan Tannhill, who was 11 for me. Hey! The freaking man. Ryan Tannahill over the last two seasons filtering out garbage time is the third passer in the league in EVA per play behind Mahomes and Rogers, which is just the best. storyline ever. And the, I have Tannahill in Tier 3 and I have every other, you know, wide zone play action automaton in Tier 4, right? There's Jared Gough and Jimmy Garapolo,

Baker Mayfield, Kirk Cousins, all those guys. What makes Tana Hill different is the aggression. Tannahill wants to throw the ball deep. And obviously, Arthur Smith pushes the ball deep a little bit more than some of those offenses do. But that's, you know, hand in hand. It's because of Tana Hill's arm. Tannahill is an aggressive downfield thrower with impressive downfield accuracy, especially at this stage in his career where he didn't see that as much in Miami. The other side of that coin, the second edge of that sword is if you're going to stay in that pocket a little bit longer off wide zone play action and wait for an intermediate or downfield route to develop, you can take hits.

And Tannihil just don't care. He's got that Ryan Fitzpatrick in him where he's just like a little bit nuts. And so he's just going to take it right in the jaw if that means you're able to get AJ Brown on a 17-yard drift route. and he's willing to do that. The potential of having him, AJ Brown and Julio Jones all in the same offense

is extremely exciting, even if the scheme isn't exactly the same because those are two of the best intermediate route runners in the game, and he's going to give them chances to win tough physical balls in contested situations.

And so for Tanna Hills aggression for his downfield accuracy and how well that's been sustained, right? After 2019, one year, I would not have put him up here, but after two years, I'm a lot more willing to get him up here. So with Deshawn excluded from my rankings,

Tanahill would have slid in at number 10. I'm very happy about that because I wanted to talk about them. I'm still not over wide zone play action automaton. That's like the best thing I've ever been there. And just a little bit nuts too is important. Yeah. So the Fitzpatrick zone of a little bit nuts is below the Josh Allen zone. The Josh Allen zone is peak nuts.

I've seen some fits peak nuts games. As a man whose Eagles lost multiple games in a road, Ryan Fitzpatrick playing for different teams. Yeah, Ryan Fitzpatrick's. I hate him. He's crazy nuts. My number five is Lamar Jackson. We already did that.

Ben Solak, number five. Number five for me is Dak Prescott. Right. You asked me a little bit about, like, you know, that supporting cast and everything. I goes back to saying that the pre-snap process and the correctness, the way Dak gets you into the right look, to me, vaunts him over Allen's and Lamar's. He's doing so much pre-snap. And maybe it's just football nerd excitement about that, but he's doing so much pre-snap.

that it puts him into a rarefied air for me. I had him as one of my top three guys for 2024. I have him as a top five quarterback. I really, really hope his shoulders okay. I think we're in for a clear comeback of the year's season, potentially MVP season if he's fully healthy. Really, really exciting young player. I think I had his MVP last year.

He's suspended from me picking it just because of that whole situation. Yeah. Nora, number five. I have Russell Wilson number five. Ooh, nice. I wanted to put DAC above Russ. I wanted to do it. And I just couldn't get my head around it.

I went for it. I just went for it. Just was feeling spicy. Tell us why number five. He takes too many sacks. I would prefer if he didn't do that. Look, Russell Wilson has not gotten all the help I think he deserves. That said, he's been in a very good situation for pretty much the long haul.

He is fantastic. Off schedule. He's incredibly accurate. incredibly talented arm can do just unbelievable things. I think because we would love to see Russ, you know, cooking whenever possible and potentially with a little bit more help and maybe some schematic changes, we can acknowledge all that while still saying, okay, sometimes things are also Russell Wilson's fault.

Russell Wilson has also acknowledged this. When speaking this offseason about how he would like to be under pressure, you know, not constantly. He has also acknowledged that sometimes he has a tendency to hang on to the ball and he should just not do that. So at this point, look, we're talking about the top five quarterbacks in the NFL

here. These are all incredibly good players. So we're kind of picking Nits. And my knit to pick with Russell Wilson is that he should take fewer sacks. Ben Solek, where's Russell Wilson for you? Yeah, Wilson's four. He's right above Prescott. He's the top of two or two for me. He's mine four too. Yeah, right. My knit to pick is he should just

be taller. But this unfortunate you can't really solve this problem. He's got to work on that. It's not fair. It's like the Simpsons when Bart wanted to be radioactive

man. He'd just try to stretch himself out in the bed. Just like tied himself. That's what that's what Russ could do. Come on. Who was the quarterback, Ben, who tried to make his hands bigger?

Oh, shoot. I don't know. I remember who you're talking about. Like Tyler Wilson or something. It was a, and it worked. It worked. Yeah, he went through right.

The combine. Stretching mechanisms. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I still. believe to this day that Kyler Murray was like wearing heels

when he got measured with the compound, it doesn't matter. That's every scout believes that. Who's your number five then? So five for me was DAC, four for me was Russ. Yeah, with Russ, the best thing I could see from Russ

this year is use Gerald Everett. The Seahawks have tried to give Russ tight ends. They've been like, hey, here's a middle of the field target. Throw him short against two deep zone. And Russ has said, no, forever. Like, Greg Olson and Jimmy Graham. Like, they've just been doing their best.

And they have no... Russ does not want to work that area of the field. He doesn't want to work those routes. He wants the deeper drops. He wants to let the deep routes develop down the field. You know, it's time to start taking those routes, especially when a team like the Giants who, like, beat the Seahawks last year by just sitting there and daring Russ to take it, and he never did.

And so to me, right, there's little stuff that probably is play style and probably won't be erased from Russ forever. But if he fixes it, he's going to be much more so cemented in Tier 1, whereas last year, I think We had him in Tier 1, and then he fell out of it a little bit, now after a bit of a shakeier season. Yeah, I talked to Russ a couple weeks ago, and he mentioned Everett as a guy he was super, super excited about. I'm totally on the same page with you.

Believe it when I see it, man. Yeah, listen, until we get to training camp, and I had this debate the other day, until we get the pads on, like, it's harder for me to just say, like, how many to, I saw that Jared Cook, I was reading some Jared Cook quotes with the Chargers, and I'm just thinking, like, how many different quarterbacks have we been like, man, Jared Cook is going to save this guy's life

it's fine. He's on another team two years later. Jared Cook watch. All right. Very cool. Next one. So yeah, I have Russ Wilson at number four as well. Nor are your number four? My number four is Dak, who I think we've talked about. But I just went for it. I went for it. I put him above Russ. I think, look, I think the four, five, six for me, which is Prescott Wilson Allen, that was, that's flavor of the week stuff for me. you can flip those around a lot of different ways and I would be pretty happy. Yep. I think we all have the same three

unless I was looking at stats last night and I saw that Chad Henney had 108 rating last year, which was among the best in the NFL. So if anybody, maybe Chad Henney's in the next year. Or is he still on the show? Unsigned.

Unsigned. Lord knows. Lord knows. But no Tim Tebow. I've noticed. Neither nor I was going to dane that one with a response. All right. So I think we're all going to have

the top three. And maybe we'll have them in different orders and we'll see where we go. We will start with Nora. Nora number three. Aaron Rogers. Mm. Hmm.

Mm. He just drove past me about a minute ago. Oh. Well, tell him he's my number three ranked quarterback. I would tell him he's ever one. I would lie. Uncomptorably close to the Packers player parking lot and I don't like it, but I can't drive because it would make noise.

And a lot of pickup trucks is what I'll say about that. Yeah, always more pickup trucks than you imagine in an NFL player parking lot. A lot of Teslas as well. Either or a situation. When you get to the NFL and you get your second contract, you're assigned either a Tesla or a pickup truck. They don't talk about that enough. It's worked into the language. Break the tie for me between Brady and Rogers.

I mean, hasn't the last 20 years of the NFL broken it for you? Like, these two. Now, Rogers certainly has more physical tools. still at his disposal and always has. And can on a play-to-play basis be just magical? But these two are ranked where they are because they are the guys who I feel like if you put me in a one-game situation

where I have to choose a quarterback to go win it, there's a really, really, really small list of guys who I'm considering for that. And these two, particularly because of, you know, these two I have to think about even over Mahomes. I think I probably still go Mahomes, but I think about these two just because they have seen it all and they are mentally the best of everyone. That said, if that is what is meriting their inclusion this high up the list, it's got to be Brady. Brady goes above Rogers.

We've seen it time and time again. He has found a way when he needs to find a way. And I think that's what we're talking about, what we're talking about, why these guys are as good as they are. So I just, that's, that's my two, three. Ben so like, you're two, three. Yeah, so Rogers goes about Brady for me. Rogers are two and Brady at three. And Nora's not wrong. I mean, like, it's right.

We're really splitting hairs at this point. The thing that makes it, I mean, like this is just so mean. But like Brady's eight years younger than my mom, which, sorry, mom for like blowing up your spot. But he's eight years. He's 44. And at some point, he's going to get worse. At some point, it's going to happen.

And you just think that Rogers has a little bit more of an arc. And he's obviously always had more physical ability. And I just remember watching Rogers in those McCarthy offenses. And I just feel so bad because he could have had so many more championships that they were running slant flat like 19 times less. And I just, for me, it's, it's the, what Rogers is doing right now with LaFloor is so impressive. And when Brady did with Bruce Ariens is so impressive. And it's impossible to choose. And I'm just going to choose Rogers a two.

because at some point Brady's arms got to fall off. I just want to say we've done so many, over the collective punditry over the past 20 years, done so many Tom Brady age things. Oh, you know, they played with this guy. This guy's been out of the league for 10 years, like all sorts of metrics. And this is definitely the first time I've heard

he's eight years younger than my mom. It's just he's so old, man. It's so good. Why are you going to blast like this? What's your mom's name? I am weeping into my microphone. My mom's name is Masha. Masha,

Masha on blast here. Shout out. And she's going to listen to this too. She'll be really excited. And then she's going to text me and be mad. Did your mom listen to all your podcasts? Yeah, no,

she does. That way she can tell me that she, I learned all my skills from her. She's a big talker and I'm a big talker. So my mom listens to them. And I think this is pretty common in podcast stuff, but my mom listens just to hear my voice. It's pretty common.

Like, whenever I tell people that, it's like, oh, yeah. We had a, I'm not going to say his name. I'm not going to put him on blast. We had a podcaster here who, a different sport, who cursed one time.

And he called me and said his mom started crying because he'd never heard her curse before. She'd never heard him curse before. Yeah. I was just like, oh, wow. I forgot all of our parents listened to these podcasts. All right. Mom's rule. Anyway, they really do.

Anyway, Masha on Blast. Tom Brady number three because of it. All right. I guess we all have the same. By the way, I just say, hold on. Can I just offer one? Can I offer one final rebuttal in the two, three ranking? Who won the Super Bowl last year?

Ooh. Mike Penn is bad. So lack. Mike Penn is bad. Tom Bowles is good. This is my full answer. Okay. I have another one.

Who won the NFC championship game? Mike Penn is bad. Todd Balls is good. Please Joe Barry saved me. I don't know if that's going to happen. Yeah, me either. I don't know if Joe Barry thinks is going to happen. Um, I don't know.

Sounds like she checkmated you there, So lack. Yeah. I count the rings, bud. When Brady was like the first half of that season, when Brady was looking like he was still figuring it out, and it was like, man, this is really the window. This is the opportunity. And then by like week 13,

Brady just has like the deepest depth of target and also the fastest time to throw and is completing 70% of his passes. And you're just like, all's a flat circle. We're all going to die. Like, he just can't be being. He's a cockroach. He will survive nuclear apocalypse.

Some of those stats guys said it was like his best year ever. But maybe behind 2011. He increased his average depth of target by like a yard. He was just like, yeah. For McDaniels, the way that he played for as long as he played and then just walk into an offense that is legitimately the polar opposite and then just be good is obnoxious. It's offensive and I hate it.

It's insane. It also showed you it was such an indictment of the Patriots the last three years. Just like, you know, we thought that they were running this stuff because Brady wasn't capable of this. And it turns up Tom Brady's capable of everything. You just do whatever. he wants to do. Wow, seems like he should be the number two quarterback.

The longer we talk about this, the more I realize, I think I haven't at three out of spite, but I do. Stick to my guns. Hater's going to hate. Is this, wait, what's the spite? You just, you just don't like it? He's just so good. It's just so annoying.

He's been so good for so long. I will say that he's just so good, so I have to rank him lower is an interesting take. I'm clinging to the, uh, the 0304 Super Bowl, where he beat McNabbin, the Eagles, after the Eagles lost four NFC championship. games or whatever it is. I just can't. You just hate it? Seven year old Ben is just holding onto it for dear life. I was at that game, Ben.

As a fan, not a media member. I was in like middle school or something. You see John McNab puking on the sidelines? Just a fan of sporting events happening in Florida, Nora. A fan of sport? A fan of sports. I wore a big shirt that said sports. And then the night before, Rob La with the NFL hat. At the Renaissance

in St. Augustine, I ran into I met Mr. Bill Simmons in the lobby. I introduced myself. I remember that story. That's incredible. And I did not tell Bill this for like maybe a year after I started working here because I didn't want him to. I met you at 2018 Eagles Camp, Kevin.

Oh, fuck. I don't remember. There you go. There's my Bill Simmons story for you. Wow. Really? Yep. What happened?

Myself said hi. You were clearly busy. Gave me like, you know, you gave me like a very, a very kind, hello, told me that you had to go do something. I said, that's cool. Just told you I like your word. Ben, did Kevin blow you off? Yep.

No. I was like 19, you know what I mean? I thought the first time we met with the Combine. You tried so hard to give that a nice spin. Yeah. Like, he was clearly very busy. And I didn't know like when the appropriate time to go up was because my first time

I ever at like training camp. And so I probably came to say hello at a poor time. But yeah. It was okay. I thought the first time we met was at the Combine like a year later. Do you remember that? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. I thought that was our first. meeting. No, it was at Eagles Camp 2018 and I remember seeing you and being like, that's Kevin Clark. And then I used myself and I was like, no, we need to get off of this immediately. This is amazing. This is legitimately

amazing. I was not remember the 2018 thing. But then you made the Bill Simmons reference. I was like, all right, well, I got to, I got to do mod a now. Patrick Mahomes. I honestly, I don't even remember going to Eagles Camp in 2018. Was that oh, was that the year after they won the Super Bowl? Yeah, it was. It was, it was

I was really busy. Yeah. Wentz was right. I was doing that big piece on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nora wants to talk about Malm so badly right now. No, I'm just trying to figure out if I blew you off for a good reason. It's like Kevin is enjoying this too much.

I'm trying to relitigate whether or not I blew you off for a good reason. And I don't know the answer. I think the answer is it was a good reason. I accept. I've emotionally gotten over it. I'm not gotten over Brady winning a Super Bowl in the early 2000s. But the Kevin. I have gotten over feet.

I didn't. Arjuna. Arjuna says. that I've not given my Rogers Brady order. It's the same as Ben Solac, who I met at 2018 Eagles Camp. All right. So the number one, I think we all have the same. Norprinciotti's been trying to talk about Patrick Holmes for five minutes now.

Norr, Prince Yaddy, number one. Tim Tebow. No, I have Mahomes. I mean, it's like a more interesting conversation at this point to talk about, like, where is Mahomes going to end up ranking kind of all time? right? Because, like, is there a single list? Look, we talked earlier about how there are some wild lists out there. Is there a single one that doesn't have Patrick Mahomes as the top quarterback? I don't think so. What's Chris Sims' list, Ben? Is Mahomes number one?

Yeah, Mahomes is one. Alan is two. I immediately went to check because I wasn't positive that he had Mahomes at one, to be honest. But he has Mahomes one. It's a good place to do that. He has Brady 10. Ouch. It doesn't have he has Derek Carr or Matt Ryan. Is that correct? Derrick Carr 14 Matt Ryan at 58. Admittedly, I have Derek Hart like 13.

I love Chris Sims. Chris Simms just going for it. I love that guy. All right. Bell you on. Ben Solac, Patrick Malmes. Moms is one. I agree with Nora.

It's more interesting to talk about like, you know, how crazy can this get, how sustained can this get? And like a one year scope, I am interested to see how it works with the new offensive line. They're going to change the way their run scheme works a little bit, and they're going to do a little bit more under center,

a little bit deeper play action drops and some of that fun play-pass stuff you saw from Steve Sarkeesian, Alabama, some Lincoln-Roy of stuff at Oklahoma. So I think they're going to do some new things, which might help Mahomes' tendency to, like, take 15-step drops when he doesn't need to. But at the end of the day, like, that's just talking. Like, it doesn't matter.

He's the skeleton key. So whatever interesting scheme stuff they do, he's just going to be the straw that serves the drink anyway. Totally agree. Ben just shrugged in a way that, like, I'm sure defensive coordinators across the NFL are very used to doing. I think the scariest thing that's happened for the NFL is that, and obviously, I know they lost in the Super Bowl, but that was a different circumstance. They fixed the offensive line, all that stuff. But Andy Reid told Patrick Mahomes that he was going to be the head coach until the end of that contract.

And the only thing if you're a defensive coordinator, you can pray for is that Andy Reid retires and there's some opening and that the offense that they run isn't 100%. tailored to Mahomes or whatever or that, you know, somehow Mahomes gets worse. And I don't think either of those things are going to happen over the lifetime of his contract. And if I was in the AFC West, I would walk into a river. So that's not. Denver Broncos starting Brett Rippin with the ones in camp, baby. I, uh, this was very fun. I'd like to announce that I'm, um, I'm going to say that Benzolak and I's combine meeting.

in 2019 was canonically the first time we met. I accept. Thank you. And the, this has been great. Any other quarterback thoughts? Does anybody give any thought to Kyla Murray in the top 10? Not really.

Good. No. Just want to make sure. I mean, I really like Kyler. The two that didn't make it for me was, I mean, really Matt Ryan was the only one that I was upset about not including, but I think I probably would have. have gotten to, like,

Kirk Cousins before Kyler. Oh, I've Derek Carbough, Tyler. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Kyler catching a random straight, like an hour into the show. Yeah, this, I mean, but I just wanted to know where we all were, because people are really excited about Tyler. I was really excited last year and then

that nothing happened. Yeah. So I moved on. The Arizona Cardinals, ladies and gentlemen. That offense is going to be interesting. Yeah. Um, all right. This has been the the Renafel show on the Ring of Podcast Network. Thank you to Isaiah Blokin for production help with additional production help by Arjuna Rample.