The Ringer NFL Show - Top People in the NFL’s 2020 Season

Episode Date: December 31, 2020

Cole Wright, Ryan Shazier, Kevin Clark, and Danny Kelly give their lists of the top people in football in 2020 (1:50). Cole and Ryan discuss ESPN analyst Booger McFarland’s most recent comments about Dwayne Haskins (1:06:20), and then share a clip of Bakari Sellers's latest interview with quarterback guru Quincy Avery. Avery has trained Haskins in the past, and he talks about what’s next for the young quarterback (1:11:20).  To check out the full episode follow 'The Bakari Sellers Podcast.' Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up guys? Cole right here with my guy, Ryan Chaser, Kevin Clark and Danny Kelly, and we're taking a look at the top people in the world of football as 2020 comes to a close. Then Ryan and I have a short conversation about Booger McFarlane's recent comments before sharing a piece of an interview between Bacari Sellers and Quincy Avery on the Bacari Sellers podcast. All that and more straight ahead in the special edition of the Ringer NFL show. Today's episode of The Ringer NFL show on the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by State Farm. getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great rate? That's like drafting a player that becomes an all-pro.

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State Farm goes from strength to strength. Choose insurance that always brings its A-game. When you want the real deal, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, send up some smoke screens, sound the alarm, do what's necessary because you know what time it is. It is once again time for the Wednesday edition of the Ringer podcast. I'm Cole Wright, alongside my guy, Ryan Shazier. We usually come to you on Tuesdays, but not this time around.

That's because this is a special roundtable edition. and we're joined by a pair of guys who I'm sure you know very well. It's Kevin Clark and Danny Kelly. Kevin Clark, of course, staff writer for the ringer, covers the league. And Danny Kelly, he does the same, covers the NFL, considered the draft expert on staff. So what are we going to do? We're going to give you our top three players of the year.

And, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be players. It could just be people in general. Maybe someone's going to throw you a curve ball. So what are we going to do? We're going to each give you our rundown and let you know. which three people in the National Football League intrigued us the most this year. And guys, since, you know, since I'm starting things off, you know, what better way to go than a guy who's won a rookie of the year, a guy who's won an MVP, a young cat who also has a Super Bowl

trophy on his trophy case. And, Ryan, I see that smug look on your face right now. But you know, I'm going with the guy who gets that extra good rate at State Farm. I'm going with Patrick Mahomes, man, because what is it about this guy that makes him so fantastic? I don't know. Maybe it's his ability to throw the ball from any single arm slot. Maybe it's the fact that he goes out there and leads his team and wills his team to wins. Or maybe it's the fact that, well, I don't know. He does more with what he's given than anyone else in all the league. And maybe it's just because I'm a huge Patrick Mahomes fan. It's because he had that 97-mile-hour fastball when he was in high school. We know he was hanging around in that New York Yankees locker room.

So, Ryan, I don't know what it is about Patrick Mohomes, but for me, he's my most intriguing person of 2020, man. To be honest, I knew you was going to pick Patrick, of all people. I knew you to pick Patrick. He's a baseball player. Like, you have to pick him. It's only right. Now, but Patrick is the best player in football right now.

He might not be the most valuable player, but he's the best player. You know, he's just a different, he's on a different planet. right now, like Coach Tomlin said, he's visiting from a different planet like TJ is right now, man. He's really just taking over the league, and he has all the weapons that any quarterback would dream of. So he's just taking advantage of his opportunities and really just killing it out there.

So I don't see nothing wrong with this pick. I just knew that you would be the person to pick him. Hold on a second. There's nothing wrong with that because Patrick Mahomes, he is as good as it gets. And I think when I said he has one MVP trophy, I don't think that will be his last. something tells me he's going to rack a few of those up.

Now, we're going to go from number one to number two and DK. I'm going to open up the floor to you because of Patrick Mahomes. If he's the MVP frontrunner right now, you're most intriguing person of 2020. He has to be hot on his heels, man. Yeah, I think actually he may have passed him in the odds this last week. And that's Aaron Rogers from the Packers. Just an outstanding, incredible season for him. Pretty unexpected, honestly, because it seemed like we talked about all offseason

how the Packers did nothing to improve, like, the Webster's, and re at their receiver position. You know, we all kind of pan their draft as way too forward looking. And then obviously them taking a quarterback, trading up for a quarterback in the draft in the first round, it just create a lot of questions about whether, you know, Aaron Rogers was even going to be around with the Packers for very long. But he's gone out and had, you know, his best season in a long time, an MVP caliber. I think he's actually going to win the MVP.

And, I mean, 44 touchdowns, leads the NFL. just five picks, which is just absurd, like the decision-making, the accuracy. You know, he's elevated all the guys around him. Devante Adams is obviously a superstar, but, you know, he's made the guys in that offense around him. Robert Tunyon came out of nowhere to have 11 touchdowns this year. So I just feel like the way that Rogers has played, his overall persona, the storylines, the narratives all around him all offseason coming into the year, makes him, to me,

one of the most interesting players or people in the league right now. It's just, you know, I just think it's so fascinating that he's been able to do what he's doing this year. Kevin, what do you think, man? More fascinating, more intriguing. Is it Patrick Mahomes or is it Aaron Rogers? There's no wrong answer because we know that both of these guys are tastemakers eight days a week. If you're asking me who's more intriguing, I would go with Rogers because of an area that Danny said, only because we spent five, six months talking about the Jordan Love Pick and the lack of receivers, even though people conveniently forgot about someone like Devante Adams,

who's as efficient as it gets at that position. But, you know, he went up, Aaron Rogers wanted to ring our podcast in August and said, you know, this time with the Packers is going to end sooner rather than later. I think there was a general pessimism about it all. And with Mahomes, we know what this is.

This is sustainable. This is greatness that is sustainable. He makes miracles look normal. And, you know, something that I keep going back to with Mahomes is that he makes double digit point deficits, which no one else in league comes back from, he makes them routinely disappear at almost 90% when he's down 10%, 10 points, rather. So for me, it's Rogers just because of the career arc. And to almost, I mean, like, his touchdown percentage last year

was 4.6. It's 8.8 this year. His quarterback rating, which is just, you know, obviously just a snapshot, it's up almost 25 points. This is just an unbelievable switch from one year to the next. Part of that is Matt Lafleur, which, by the way, is its own narrative arc because there were so many questions whether or not they would gel at the beginning of last year. Those questions have been answered. Matt Lefleur is an awesome coach. And so I think when you consider just what we thought this Rogers season was going to look like, as opposed to what it did look like, it has to be Rogers. I think there are a lot of people in the league who told me coming into this, this is going to be not much different of a season, even with limited training camp, practice, all that stuff. But what we

would have is elite players were going to be even more elite, if that's a thing. Because someone like Aaron Rodgers will take advantage of a little bit of sloppier play, a little bit of breakdown in communication, some inexperienced, flat-footed defense that don't have that time to jail. People like Aaron Rogers were going to feast this year, and that's exactly what happened. Okay, now we're living in the present, D.K. and myself with Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rogers, we know that these guys, you know, they're the keepers of the quarterback position right about now. But when it comes to Ryan's pick and his guy, he's going with first, he's all about the future right now.

And maybe in order to be one, two, and potentially number three on this list, you have to have an endorsement deal with State Farm because we know that Holmes and Rogers, they get that unbelievable rate. And Ryan, maybe in the future, your top guy, Trevor Lawrence, he's going to be on that sponsorship docket as well. So the thing is, like, the reason I have Trevor here is because since Trevor was, you know, a freshman at Clemson, everybody's like, oh, he's God's gift to earth. You know, he's like, he's like LeBron of football right now. Everybody expects him to be the number one pig.

I'm just, no, I'm just saying, like, since he was a freshman, since he, you know, won the championship, everybody's always been like, he's a number one pick. He's going to come in. He's going to dominate the league. And it's just like, I don't know Trevor's going to do that, but we're hearing his name so much. And teams were so expecting that the Jets were going to tank to get him.

And everybody was making the plan for Trevor not to go to the Jets. And this is like, we talk so much about this guy. He's not even in the NFL. You know what I'm saying? And to me, I don't even feel like he's the best quarterback coming out, but I am extremely biased. I am extremely biased. I am extremely biased.

Are you going Justin Fields? Is that where I think you're leaning? Your extreme bias is leaning to a O-H? Yeah, O-H-I-O guy. Okay, there we go. You have to finish. That's what we do. No, so the reason I say that is because I actually went to like a camp when

And they were both in high school, but I went to a camp. And Trevor was the- Not sleepaway camp, not marshmallows and campfires. Okay, okay, I got it. It was like the Nike, you know, the Nike elite camp. They have all the top guys from each year come in. And they go against each other. And it was pretty cool because Trevor came in like he is now.

The number one guy, he's 6'6, you know, blown blonde hair, just slinking the ball. And everybody's like, man, this is. He's the best guy, you know, he's going to be number one pick coming out. And then, you know, Justin Fields, he was a five-star also, but everybody was just like, oh, yeah, man, this is Justin Fields. He's a good guy. And then, but the thing is, like, in the tournament, Justin Fields had, like, 19 touchdowns,

one pick or zero picks the whole tournament. Trevor Lawrence threw about five or six, and, like, Justin Fields' team just blew everybody out. And I feel like, if you just look at their stats throughout the whole time they've been in in college, I feel Justin's stats were always a little bit better than Trevor's, but Trevor has more talent around him, but it is what it is. So I'm just going to keep it at that. But the reason I pick Trevor is because I just feel we're talking about him so much

and everybody thought people were making a plan to get him. And I hope he does the same type of, you know, I hope he's as successful in the NFL as he is in college because he's, what, 85 and 3 in college or since high school or something like that, That's absurd. And that's like Patrick Mahomes in the NFL right now. It's just not even, it's just unreal right now. Yeah, and it could be the fact that Trevor Lawrence just sticks out in the crowd. You talked about that long, flowing hair.

He kind of reminds you of sunshine from a member of the Titans getting off that bus straight from California. And he also has a jawline like one of those sculptures on Easter Island. So you can't miss 6'4-6 Trevor Lawrence in a crowd. But Trevor Lawrence, it looks D.K. like he's going to be a member of the Jacksonville Jaguars because the Jets. went on and jetted things up. Is that the better destination for Trevor Lawrence to play down there in Duval County? And then you don't have to pay those New York taxes.

I know. That's nice for him because he's got the no state income tax or whatever. Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, both teams have a lot of work to do in terms of like the skill, skill players and the overall supporting cast around it. But I like the Jags receivers a little bit more. I mean, I think, you know, with DJ Chark, with Liviska Channal, I think even Colin Johnson has looked pretty intriguing this year. He's another rookie that they had this season.

And they got some guys on the offensive line. They got a good running back in James Robinson. It just seems like the support system around him is going to be a little bit better. We'll have to see who the coach is next year and how all that goes. There's a lot of things that have to happen between now and the beginning of next season for me to feel really confident about them having a big turnaround. But they definitely have the cap space, the draft picks. They have like 11 draft picks.

and a lot of them are in the top four rounds. And so, yeah, they got the, you know, the capital to get really good pretty quickly. I think Lawrence is better off being in Jacksonville, honestly. So, D.K., I think it's safe to say that you don't believe that the man whose favorite meal is a good old-fashioned baloney sandwich, Doug Marone. He will not be the head coach to the Jacksonville Jaguars next season. I mean, if I had to bet, no, I don't think so. It would make sense for me to have, like, for them to just do a clean slate, you know, new front office. new GM, and then pair the GM with a coach that he knows and let them kind of work that out.

Like his, he can choose his coach that way they have, you know, just that clear communication, the agreement. I think that's really important between coach and the front office. So it just would make more sense to be for them to do that. So, D.K., you thinking that the rookie quarterback is going to be able to choose his coach? That's what you're saying? No, no, no, I'm saying. The GM that they hire should have, should have the ability to at least have some input into which coaches.

Because the interaction between the coaches and the scouts are so important because you want guys that'll fit your scheme and all that stuff. When you talk about a potential vacancy down there in Duval County at the head coaching spot, you know, I'm thinking towards the next guy that Kevin has first on his list because there's a good chance that he's going to be getting some offers coming through his agent when it comes to Brian Dayball. And that's who you're going with, man, huh? Yeah. So when I was thinking about intriguing people, I'm using. some of these guys as the face of something. And, you know, there are so many good play callers right now, young, under 50, whatever it is. And a lot of them are to get head coaching opportunities this

year, whether that's Brian Daibol, whether that's Eric Bianney, whether that's Arthur Smith, who's younger than those two guys. And I think it's interesting to me what Daible is doing because all of those guys do this. But Daible, in particular, when you look at the growth of Josh Allen, he's made life easier for his quarterback. And that has married with, you know, Alan's actual improvement, which has been astounding. When you look at the rate of errant throws that Josh Allen had over the first two years, that's almost down to nothing relative to other quarterbacks. When you just look at the mistakes he used to make, it's unbelievable the jump that Josh Allen has made. And we, I've talked for this on my own podcast where, you know, the jump from year two to year three is basically

unprecedented that he's made. Quarterbacks get better from year one to year two, not year two to year three. It's happened very rarely to make this kind of jump. His jump has been astounding. And Brian Daybowl has played a pretty big role in that. That also, you know, Stefan Diggs and the offensive line and Cole Beasley and all the infrastructure they've built has been amazing.

But what Dayball was done, you know, Matthew Fairbren from the athletic had a piece in those couple days ago. And I can't stop thinking about it. In 2019, the Brown, the bills were not good at running screens. And Day Bowl got the staff together and said, let's just make this an offseason thing. And they went from 4.6 yards per attempt on screens last year to 7.1, 104 pass rating on screens. That's just an example of a little thing where we say, okay, we can give Josh Allen an escape hatch here, just to help him a little bit, make life easier. They run the fifth most RPO's, according to Nesson when I was reading their piece on his education with the Patriots.

And they've been able to, he's been able to because he worked with Nick Saban, he worked with Belichick, he worked under the Bill Pard sales regime in Miami. He's gotten a football education. And what's interesting to me is he's applying it. And not a lot of guys do that. Some guys try to bring their system somewhere. And I think he's internalized his football education, which I think is really helpful. And I think that there's a lot to be said for that.

And I think that he's going to be able to do, you know, there was a quote from Brady Quinn and one of these profiles on the athletic a couple days ago. Basically, when he was Brady Quinn's offensive coordinator, he just wanted to run the ball. And now he doesn't because he's adapted. And when you had that kind of adaptable mind, that suggests you're going to have a good head coaching career ahead of you because it's not what you want to do. It's what your players can do. And that's what I find faster about Brian Daible. And there's a bunch of guys like this, but I chose Daibald just because of the massive jump of this quarterback this year.

Yeah, Kevin, the only problem with Brian Dayball is, I know you made mention of the fact that, you know, he comes from the Bill Belichick tree, the Nick Sabin tree. But when you look at the track record, D.K., of coaches who come from that Belichick tree, I mean, the rate of success, it's not usually there. I mean, I think Bill Belichick, he's like, all right, you guys are going to be good when you work for me. As soon as you venture out on your own, once you leave the nest, oh, you didn't even know, I've really clipped your wings, so you're just falling straight down to the ground. Yeah, like the Matt Patricia era in Detroit was, like, maybe not the greatest. Yeah, I love this one, though, because, you know, I really, you can't understate it's, he's such a outlier. Josh Allen is what he's done, you know, this season.

And I think you have to give credit to the coaching staff for helping him develop in that way. Like, you know, so many coaches over, over the years have taken toolsy quarterbacks and said, oh, we could, we can make him more accurate. We can iron out some of the things that he's, you know, that some of his deficiencies or whatever. And way, like way more often than not, it just doesn't work. Like you can't coach those things out. So I think you have to give a ton of credit not only to Allen, but like the coaching staff for, you know, basically developing this, this really raw, toolsy guy into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. I don't think, you know, I don't know if anyone expected it. Maybe like a few people that were really on the Josh Allen, like train early on were expecting this.

But I know I was not expecting this big of a turnaround. And, you know, he's proven everybody wrong pretty much. I was straight wrong. I was just straight wrong about Josh Allen. And it's like, I was so wrong that I don't even think there's no like, oh, well, to be fair, blah, blah, blah. No, I was wrong about Josh Allen. And Brian Daibol and Brandon Bean and Sean McDerm and all those guys deserve so much credit for how they've helped him. But so does Josh Allen deserves that credit as well.

Sure. Yeah. I definitely like that Josh coming out. I didn't expect him to have this big of a turnaround. I knew he was going to transition eventually. But he's going from like zero to 100 real quick. He's like really just turned everything around. Like a light bulb.

Yeah, it's just, yeah, it might be the, it might be the Brian Deeple. But it's just, I really think Josh is really feeling himself. And it's a sight to see it because the bills are bringing another aspect to the AFC that we haven't seen before. Yeah, the bills, they're the one team right now. Brian, I know you don't want to hear this, but they're the one team that really is going to give Kansas City a nightmare if they have to go head to head because they're the team. that has that firepower right about now. No disrespect to those Pittsburgh Steelers, but when you take a look at what Josh Allen has been able to do,

I'm going to have to admit, I don't know what the customary side dish is that served with crow or what the wine pairing is, but I'm eating crow right now because people said, you're taking this guy out of Wyoming. I just didn't think the competition that he faced out there in that conference was going to be good enough to translate to the National Football League.

But as we've seen, lo and behold, Josh Allen and he's like a low budget Patrick Mahomes. He's like a low budget Russell Wilson. It's like those guys got together and they said, you know, Josh, Josh Allen, he's our distant cousin. So that's exactly where the Buffalo Bills are right now. We're going to talk about their head coaching just a little bit because Sean McDermott, well, I don't know if what he's doing is going unnoticed,

but we're going to notice that in just a little bit. But in the meantime, I'm going to get to my number two guy when it comes to my top three of the most interesting slash intriguing people in the league. And you heard me just make mention of Russell Wilson? Well, dangerous. The one thing that impresses me the most about him is this cat's never even missed a game, his entire career in the National Football League. You know you can set your watch by him.

The sun rises and sets by Russell Wilson being in that starting lineup for Pete Carroll. And not only does he go out there and win football games, he does it when he doesn't have as much in the cupboard. And we've seen this year this Seattle Seahawks team, their defense, it's been depleted. It's played to its competition more times. than not. But Russell Wilson, he's been that guiding light for this team. And what can we say? Russell Wilson, he should have two Super Bowls already to his credit. He's already a Hall of Famer as a shoe in. But right now, we're really seeing what Russell Wilson is able to do. That let Russ Cook handle. I mean, that's been unbelievable. And we've seen it so far this year.

In week 17, he's playing with a shot to give his team that number one seed in the NSC, DK. Yeah, Russell Wilson, I actually think he's never even missed. a practice. I haven't checked recently. We're talking about practice, not a game, not a game. He's never even missed a practice, at least for injury. Yeah, he's an Iron Man. That's true. Yeah. He was on the Simmons pod actually a while back. He's got like a full-time team of guys of people that do his health. You know, he's got like a full-time masseuse, a full-time chef, a full-time. I don't want to interrupt. All that. But I'm going to interrupt. Back in the day when I was at NFL Network, I did the morning show, they said, hey, Russell Wilson's coming in. We're in the makeup chair in walks Russell Wilson has a whole entourage of people. It's like five o'clock in the

morning. They had to shut the door. They didn't want people to come in there and bother Russ. And oh, by the way, one of the people in his entourage, he brought his own barber. I mean, when you bring a barber to the location so you can have the lineup fresh right before you go on TV, that's when you know you're serious, just like Russell Wilson. For sure, for sure. You know, and it's, it's been interesting that the season, you know, because early on they just let him cook, you know, they were going all out, like deep passing, you know, just letting loose. And it was really fun to watch. But then during the middle of the part of the season,

he kind of started to turn the ball over a little bit. Their offense had like an identity crisis. And they've gotten back to like the more classic version of what the Seahawks has been. But it's allowed the Seahawks to like play with a lot more balance. So it's been an interesting evolution this whole season. And, you know, with their defense having some improvement over the first half of the compared to the first half of the year, like this team to me looks pretty dangerous

going into playoffs. because you still have Russell Wilson, and now their defense is actually playing all right. I have a question for you guys. What do you got, Ryan? Do you guys feel, and I'm sorry for, you know, touching the goat right now, do you guys feel that Patrick Mahomes would be as successful

if he had Russell Wilson's tools? Like a supporting cast? I don't know if I feel like he wouldn't, he wouldn't be the Patrick Mahomes that we know if he was not in Andy Reid's system. I think he'd still be considered one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. But like if he was in a Pete Carroll coach team's offense,

it would be run the ball. No, but play action. But not even that. It's just like, obviously, D.K., you know, he's turned into his own right now. But like, even before D.K., like, everybody was like, man, Russ doesn't really have many weapons over there.

You have Tyler Lockett. You know, you have DK. But Dennis is like, you get a different running back every, like, like you runoffacks, are consistent, your tight ends aren't consistent. Your old line is definitely not consistent. You know what I'm saying? It's like, and Patrick, like, he probably has like pound for pound, man for man,

like the best team, the best office in the NFL. Like, yeah. I think about it, like player for play. Ryan, that you have to ask, and Kevin, I'll ask this to you, who would be the better quarterback? Would it be Patrick Mahomes or would it be Russell Wilson, my one and two, most intriguing players of 2020, who would be the better quarterback if, if they were in Adam Gase's offense? Now, that's the true test.

I mean, when you're, when you're wallowing around in a dumpster, who gets out of there and they're still clean? Who would it be? Who's better? It's a pick-um for me. For me, I would say it'll be Russell. And the reason I would say Russell is because I felt Russell dealt with that before, but they, but they were able to win.

He's seen some shit. But you're right. With Patrick, Patrick walked into, like, he just walked to. in with like a silver spoon. Like, and I'm not even saying that Patrick's not, like, Patrick definitely earned everything he's got it. But like, Patrick runs around, let me throw it 100 yards. Here's Tyree Kill.

He's faster than everybody. You know, and it's like, oh, man, I'm in a crisis. Here's Travis Kelsey. He's leading the league at tight end and receiving yards. Like, who does that? You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, man, my backup receiver was the number one for the bill, Sammy Watkins, and nobody talks about him anymore.

You know what I'm saying? And then I still have Mikkel. He can outrun everybody too. And then I have three great running backs. It's just like, man. Then I have all pro line, man. I'm like, bro, like, I feel it's so unfair.

And it's so unfair for every other quarterback in the league when they watch the Chiefs play. And they're just like, man, can I just get one of those guys on my team? You know, and that's how I feel. But Russell, I feel like he's dealt with that type of office before and figured out

if they didn't make the playoffs or they got really close to the playoffs. Like, they always figured away, you know, and, and I just feel with the Chiefs over there, they just have a bunch of the riches over there. And you can't, you can't complain, you can't, you can't fault Patrick for that. But I just feel Russell would do better without as much help. Yeah, Kevin, what do you think? Before the season started, I said that Russell Wilson, he was as good, if not better than Aaron Rogers. I know a lot of people right now raising some eyebrows right there, because Aaron Rogers, you know, he's as good as sliced bread. if not even better.

But Russell Wilson right now, like you said, when it comes to weapons, I mean, Russell Wilson's the guy who goes in, looks at the pantry, there's nothing there. And the next thing you know, you have a five-course Michelin Star meal on the table. Russell Wilson, he is that good. Yeah. So for me, I asked Chris Collins with this question a couple weeks ago, actually. And he said, Adam Gase coach.

I like that name drop there, Kevin. I like that name drop. Well, he's a lot smarter than me. So I'll just cite him before I get into my point. he said if Mahomes was coached by Gase, they'd meet in the middle, they'd be eight and eight, which I think is probably correct if you think about it. Now, I'm much number than Collinsworth, but I will try to answer the question. The fact that we can say it's Wilson is a bad sign for Wilson because it means we've seen

him in those sort of scenarios. Obviously, he's never had anything like the Jets this year, but we've seen him behind a bad offensive line. We've seen him when he didn't have the skill guys. and he still made something out of nothing, as you guys have said. And so the fact that we cannot definitively answer what does it look like when Mahomes is in an awful situation is a credit to the chiefs, and it's a credit to the infrastructure they've built.

But I think that, you know, my hope for Patrick Mahomes' career is we never have to, we never have any evidence about this. We never have to have a Patrick Mahomes season where he's running for his life all the time. Now, he's under pressure. It just doesn't matter sometimes. And so I think that there's some of his skill is mitigated. any bad situation he's put in on a play-to-play basis, but generally he's kept upright and takes advantage of his situations.

But I think that because I've seen Russell Wilson with the deck stacked against him, if I had to pick one player to play for the Jets, it would be Russell Wilson. All right. Well, like you said, though, Chris Collins were told you that if Patrick Mahomes were in that Adam Gase, New York Jets offense, they'd be eight and eight.

But he didn't tell you that Patrick Mahomes would probably be 10 and 6 if the head coach of the New York Jets was a third grader because when you look at the offensive acumen between a third grader and Adam Gaste, they're right about on the same par. And we'll see how things shake out there in East Rutherford, New Jersey with the Jets at seasons.

And because they can't even lose right, they can't even lose games right. That right now is certainly a problem for the Jets. D.K., how about we move things along because I need your second most interesting person. Who are you going with? Someone that has goat status? Yeah, I'd,

I did want to do this one, but I think he actually has to be included here. It's Tom Brady. You know, it's like sick of it, obviously. It's like been the last 20-some years. But, I mean, the guy goes from New England, spending the last 20 years in New England and starts new in Tampa Bay. And I mean, honestly, he's turned this team and helped help turn this team into a Super Bowl contender. He's had an incredible year statistically. You know, you can't really take it away from everything he's doing as a 43-year-old quarterback is like unprecedented, you know?

So I just think we have to give credit to what he's done. And it's been very interesting kind of seeing the collapse of the Patriots at the same time. You know, he kind of kept that team together last year and kept them competitive even though their roster maybe wasn't where it needed to be. And then this year, we've seen things kind of fall apart. So I just think, number one, that transition has been very fascinating from like going like the Brady Belichick pairing that we've known for so long and seeing Brady in a new system. It hasn't been totally smooth every week, but I kind of feel like they're hitting their stride at the right time. And then also just, you know, seeing Brady playing in a new team with new receivers. He's got like one of the best skill position groups around him in the NFL.

I think that's been fun to see. So I just think overall, man, like Brady moving teams and doing what he's doing this late in his career is fascinating. Absolutely. And like you make mention Tom Brady, 43 years old. than Ryan, I don't know about you, but I'm 42. And I'd like to think if I did choose to play quarterback in the league, that I'd be just like Tom Brady. I'd still be there making plays at 42.

And everyone would just be talking about how I'm a year younger than Tom Brady and Tom is still down there in Tampa making plays, man. Yeah, now, I'll definitely be down there in Tampa, especially if I'm 43. You know, our Friday starts kicking in when you get older. So he wanted to be in the warm weather instead of the cold. But, you know, it's really amazing to see how he just constantly. performing at such a high level. You know, halfway through the season, people were kind of, you know, it was kind of

looking a little fishy, but, you know, they're still trying to figure each other out. He was in a whole different system for 20 years. He's still, he's getting new pieces getting placed in your offense midway through the season, you know, so I think, I really think they're going to be a contender. I don't think that they're going to win it. At first, I thought, at first I thought they were going to be in the running for the Super Bowl, but I don't think that they can beat the Packers. But I think as an old quarterback, you know, Tom's doing what he has to do.

And it's really amazing to see that the Patriots are not doing well, but also the Patriots have a lot of people that opted out to. Yeah, that's true. So I kind of just want to see what they'll look like next year. The Patriots should have did a better job of learning how to tank. You know, they should have told the Gates about that. Because now they're in a sticky situation with no quarterback. So, yeah, well, Kevin, when you look at Tom Brady, we know how old he's getting, but you can never count him out.

He's like an old man in a street fight. Just when you think you landed at that one punch, pow, he's down on the ground and like, oh, you're about to walk away. And then you hear, hey, and he turns around, he grabbed a handful of sand, and he's throwing it right in your eyes. And I'm not going to count the Tampa Bay Buccaneers out of the postseason and out of a Super Bowl run just quite yet because Tom Brady, we have to say, we have to let it be known. He's the best to ever do it at the quarterback position. And this year, you know he has a sight set on a seventh Vince Lombardi. I remember a couple years ago, Cole, when maybe five, six, seven years ago, when it started to be floated around.

Okay, Tom Brady wants to play until he's 46. And I think probably all of us on this pod probably laughed when that happened. And now he's 43, and he's still playing at a higher level than, I mean, all but a handful of quarterbacks. Okay. The deep passing was a problem for large chunks of this season. I don't think that there were parts of Arian scheme that didn't exactly mesh with the style he wanted to play. We saw that, especially in the middle chunk of the season where I think at one point he'd threw,

something like three of 35. At one point, he was 0 of 19 on those deep shots. That stuff will be worked out. But I think that we've seen the last couple of weeks what this offense can look like and what it means to spread the ball around and confusing those defensive backs. and getting those guys on an island and then Tom Brady just making throws. I will not count Tom Brady out of anything. It's funny.

The Patriots have been mathematically eliminated. I guess I have to count them out. It still feels weird for me to count on the Patriots. But with Tom Brady, I'm in the same boat. Until he's out, I'm not going to make any declarations about anything. This Tampa team can be dangerous because they have the weapons. They have Tom Brady. They've got a coach who have a lot of respect for him Bruce Ariens.

So yes, I'm not counting anything out with that. The NFC is wide open to me. If I had to bet right now, I'd say the Packers make the Super Bowl, but I would not be surprised to see Tampa playing at home in the Super Bowl. Yeah, a lot of Saints fans right now feeling a little slighted by all this Tampa Bay and Green Bay talk. But when it comes to Tom Brady, he's that old head at Open Gym. He walks into the gym. He has two knee braces on.

He's rocking some rec specs. He has a long-sleeved shirt on, but you leave him open outside that three-point line. He's going to sit there and hit all day long. And that's exactly what we're seeing with Tom Brady. He's the old dude at Open Gym. come on now. I need your second most intriguing person of 2020. Who are you going with me? Before this, do you all think Tom will win another championship before it's all said and done? Oh my gosh. I don't know. I'm going to guess. I'm going to guess. If I had to say anything,

it would be no. But I do think that there's, I would not be surprised at anything. Yeah, that's where I'm I'm not going to bet against them if that's what you're asking. That's not what I'm going to do. So who you go with as your second guy? I'm going to have to go with Stefan Diggs, man. It's just amazing to see him go to Buffalo. And I don't know if it's the quarterback. I don't know if it's the office coordinator or as the head coach, but he helped change a lot of stuff around over there.

You know, everybody kept saying he was the 1B. He wasn't the 1A in Minnesota. And right now he's telling everybody to fuck off, you know. Because they're setting all type of records over there. You know, he's breaking Bill's records. He has, you know, what, 1,500 yards receiving or something like that. He, you know, Josh Allen's having a career year. Man, I just, I'm really just happy to see that somebody like that is really bawling.

You know, everybody's saying that he was a tough teammate to deal with when he was in Minnesota and everybody in Buffalo's loving him over there. It's just really good to see, like, somebody transitioned to a different environment and just see how they can impact it. I'm really excited about that. And he's the best receiver in the last. league right now if you go on off of statistics. You know, so I'm always go with, you know, Mike Thomas or Diadio Hopkins, me personally

as best receivers. But I feel like this season, he's playing best receiver-wise. And his quarterback is in the MVP running. And it's clearly because he's helping him, you know. Well, Devante Adams is on line one. He take an exception with that number one wide receiver talk, Ryan, that you're throwing out there. But Stefan Diggs, he has come to play each and every single week.

And D.K., one thing. thing that I took away from, you know, their post-game interview the other night is that he and Josh Allen, they get after it. They play video games. I think that is what's helped build a little bit of a little bit of a cohesions, help them gel just a little bit. Coming into the year, there was, in the fantasy world, there was this, like, narrative that receivers changing teams always get worse, like, in terms of stats and everything. It takes a while for things to gel. Coming into the season, I was kind of low on him just because I thought, like, I I don't know exactly what it was, but like 60% of his production last year in Minnesota came off of deep passes.

And then you're going into this offense with Josh Allen, who is the most inaccurate deep passing quarterback in the NFL in 2019. And then all of a sudden, Josh Allen is like pinpoint accurate down the field. It's this perfect marriage between the best deep pass, deep receiver in the NFL and a guy with like the strongest arm in the NFL potentially. So it's been really awesome to see how quickly they've done this. obviously even more credit to him because there was no off season. You know what I mean? There's no preseason. There's no training camp.

So what they've done is remarkable. You know, he leads the NFL in receiving receptions and receiving yards, targets. Like he is the number one guy there. That connection is so real. I think he's probably the best route runner in the NFL. And,

you know, you have Devante Adams who, you know, does what he does. He's like a catch point dominator. He's a really good route runner to. Hopkins is not like a bird. burner, but he just, you know,

dominates, you know, defensive packs. Yeah, he's just, like, dominant. I'd say he's just dominant. But, I mean, like, Diggs is just, he gets open just every freaking time. And, you know, that's been huge for Josh Allen's development, too. I think just having that guy, he knows it's going to be open every time.

So, yeah, he's been a huge huge story. I still don't get how this guy was a fifth round pick. I think he had, like, uh, current issues. Okay. So that's, that, that, that, that, that, that, to be like part of the reason he fell just because man, he's just so good. Because he was good at Maryland too because I remember this is like a little back story. I remember when I was at Ohio State and there was like yeah, Stefan Diggs is a kid coming in.

He was like a four or five star guy. He's a five star I think. Yeah, and everybody's like, everybody's like, yeah, we gotta get him. We gotta get him. Like he came. I wasn't a guy who hosted him but I was with the guys who was hosting them and everything. And like it was like a shoe wheel. Like he was coming to Ohio State.

Signing Day, he just disappeared, doesn't answer the phone and goes to the to Maryland. And everybody's like, yo, like, why is he not here? Like, this guy is legit. And then he goes to Maryland, had a great year. And then I think it was character issues. That's why he knows something. But, uh, that would make sense. But yeah, man, he's just incredibly good. Or maybe it's because, Ryan, you took him out to get some skyline chili or something like that. And out Maryland, they, they, they rolled them out with some crab cakes. Maryland blue crab. I don't eat skyline chili. That's what it was. That's what, that's exactly what it was. Kevin, how about you, man? Who you go with second?

All right. So another kind of symbol of of what happened in 2020 is Travis Kelsey. And obviously, the best player on the Chiefs is Patrick Mahomes. But I think Kelsey represents how a team that's already good gets better. And, you know, 63rd player taken

in 2013 has always been in the conversation as Best Titan in football since he really popped a few years ago. Last year was one and two with George Kittle. Obviously, Kittle was a little banged up this year. His team is not as relevant. I think it's pretty obviously Travis Kelsey. And not only Travis Kelsey in the top tight end conversation right now,

he's in the top ball catcher conversation. He might be the first tight end ever to lead the NFL in receiving guards. Stefan Diggs on Thursday night, obviously having played an extra game, went ahead of him. But Kelsey can obviously pull that back. He is awesome. And he is why when we talk about Patrick Mahomes having one of the best infrastructures in the history of football, we start there.

Because, you know, listen, Tyreek Hill is really, really good this year, but he was better two years ago. Travis Kelsey, if you're looking for a skill guy that improved around Patrick Mahomes, you start there. He leads the NFL in first downs via reception by six first downs. It's incredibly valuable. His drop percentage was 5.9% last year. It's 1.4 this year. He's second in the NFL, according to pro football focus and run blocking for tight ends, if that's your thing.

You can do it all. Yeah, he can do it all. run black grade. And so, I listen, 590 yards after the catch, that was Kittles big thing. Obviously with Kittle not having the same impact, he's running away with it.

That's, by the way, that's for all players, not just tight ends. Devante Adams is second, Darren Waller's third. He's second in the NFL in most catches over 15 yards, Calvin Rindley being first,

Diggs being third. And so when you're going from 12 wins, which the chiefs have had the last two years, to possibly 15, they have 14 now, you need people like Travis Kelsey to carry you in some stretches. Patrick Mahomes is the best quarterback I've probably ever seen maybe. Like I'm just as far as covering him.

I'm only McCuverning's the best ever do it. I think Peyton Manning did some of the most impressive things ever seen in the football field. Aaron Rogers can take your breath away and is one of the all-time greats. But from coming into the league, and I don't remember anyone being this impressive as far as my time. I wasn't around when Aaron Rogers and those guys came into the league. but just being up close, it's been unbelievable to see it.

And I think that when you're talking about a player needing to take a step forward in a year where it hasn't all been perfect for the chiefs, they've lost two offensive linemen for one of them opted out and one of them has been injured for most of the year, Mitchell Schwartz. And so it's not like this is some super well-loyaled machine because no NFL team ever is. There's always going to be hiccups.

And Patrick Mahomes, as good as he is, is not infallible. And so you need leaps like from players like Travis Kelsey, to get to the tippy top of, you know, production and NFL history. And that's what they've gotten this year out of Travis Kelsey. And it's been great to see. Patrick Mahomes does not need to be John Wick on every possession if he has Travis Kelsey as an escape hatch. And that's why I think he's one of the most intriguing people in football.

Yeah, I hope nobody killed Patrick Mahomes' dog because, you know, we know what happened. When you mess with John Wick's dog, man, there's going to be problems ahead. Hey, add an little excitement to your sports watching experience by betting on all the action on Fandil's sports book this football season. There's a reason why Fanduels America's number one sports book. It's easy to use, easy to register, easy to deposit, and easy to find your bet. And when it comes to withdrawals, they're fast, especially when you win. Fan Duel pays your winnings in as little as 24 hours.

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If you lose, you get your entire bet up to $1,000 back in sight credit. And this week, well, I have my site set on Tennessee at Houston. Now, can the Titans beat the Texans? Of course they can. But something tells me that Deshawn Watson and this string of battle. luck, it's going to come to a close. He's lost four straight games and three of those have come by one score. He's just plain and simple, too good to end his campaign with five straight L's. I see the Texans winning this one, 24 to 20. Now, if you never tried Fanduals Sportsbook, what are you

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But Travis Kelsey, he's right behind him in yards, just to scotch over 1,400. Riddle me this. Say, for some reason, whatever reason it may be, they load up on Travis Kelsey on Sunday and just decide to give him a whole bunch of yardage, all kinds of targets. Say he leads the league in receiving yards

from the tight end position. What's that going to do for him when it comes time for him to sign that new contract? Oh, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's fishy because then now you're in a different realm. Because now he can, he already is with like the top tight end getting paid. I think kiddo just got that. Yeah. But when it comes to being the top catcher in the league, now you're saying, hey, I think I deserve 20 million a year. That's almost like Jimmy Graham redesignation status. Like, oh, I'm not a tight end.

You need to pay me like a wide. receiver. And Travis Kelsey's playing like once. So this is the thing, this is the fishy part when it comes to the NFL. Travis Kelsey, he understands, you know, I have a thousand yards with five straight seasons, is it? It's been good. Five straight seasons.

He's like, man, I'm a receiver. So this is where it happens when teams get divided because now Travis Kelsey might feel, hey, I deserve a receiver contract. Oh, I deserve receiver. money. But now if you've wanted receiver money, he's not going to be there. You know, so he definitely, if he, if he, if he becomes the number one receiver in the league, he definitely deserve a contract now. Right. You hit the nail on the head. Five straight seasons with over a thousand yards, 1125, 1,00038, 1336, 1229. And right now he's standing pat at 1416. So we will see

if he can make it to that 1500 yard marker because Danny, I mean, when you look at what he's able to do, I mean, Travis Kelsey, he just makes it that much easier for Patrick Mahomes to get his job done. Oh, yeah. I mean, he's another guy that just gets open every time. And even if he isn't open, like, he's so good at the catch point shielding guys off, like, his body and everything. I think it's really impressive that he's doing all this at 31. Like, he's 31 years old. Yeah.

I know a lot of people are kind of riding off like Zach Ertz is kind of in the twilight of his career or whatever. And Zach Ertz is 30. So, like, Kelsey is doing this, you know, he's not a spring chicken necessarily, at least in terms of the NFL age. And so, you know, what he's doing is is very, very impressive. He's just, like, so athletic, so smooth of, like, an athlete. The way he moves is just, it doesn't look like a big, that guy, a guy that big should be able to move like that. So, yeah, he's just one of the most impressive, like Kevin was saying, very impressive football player. I was going to say, you can't really divorce any of the chiefs from one another because obviously,

Tyree Kill. I said his numbers are a little bit down to from pure yardist champion from two years ago. But if it wasn't for injury, he'll be working on his fourth straight thousand yard receiving year. Okay. And so it's just amazing to me that I always joke about how the chiefs are almost like, it's like a rock band you go to see like Metallic or something. It's like, oh, this song is going to be a drum solo from this guy. The next song is going to be a guitar solo from this guy. You can feature any player you want on the chief's offense and it will work. They can. can do, if tomorrow, they said, you know what, on Sunday, we're going to make Lev Bell just the feature guy for a quarter. They can do that and they can make it work. And that's what's

amazing about their Andy, Andy replay calling, Eric B. Enemy, Patrick Mahomes, everything working in concert together is that if you, this, this Kelsey season just makes them that much more dangerous because we know who Tyreek Hill is. He's one of the best receivers in football. But this, this, this Kelsey Leap just gives them an extra dimension, even though he was already probably at worst, the second best tight end in football last year. Yeah, and I feel like every single player on the Kansas City Chiefs offensively, they're like Lars Orlrich on the double bass on Metallica's one. I mean, it doesn't get a whole bunch better than that.

For those who don't know, he might just want to Google that song and just appreciate the drum solo right there. Now, you know, when it comes to Travis Kelsey, though, he's a lot like Jimmy Graham. Jimmy Graham having someone of a Renaissance season right now, eight touchdowns hasn't had that many since 2017 when he had 10. So right now, Jimmy Graham doing some serious work this season, but he's not on this list. We're not talking about Jimmy Graham because I'm going to give you guys my last most intriguing person of 2020.

And we already talked about Brian Daibald. We talked about Stefan Digg, so why not go straight to the top? I'm going to go with Sean McDermott, the former high school wrestler, the former college teammate of your guy, Ryan, at William and Mary, Coach Tomlin. And what Sean McDermott's been able to do in the last three years with Brandon, being at the helm at the general manager spot. I mean, this Buffalo Bills team, not only did they hit the nail on the head when they drafted Josh Allen, but they certainly made sure that they made the right selection when they had Sean McDermott as their next head coach.

And right now, I think there's a lot of teams sitting around wishing that they had Sean McDermott as their front, man. And I'm sitting here in Chicago and no disrespect to Matt Nagy, but something tells me that if Sean McDermott were the head coach or the Chicago Bears, they might not have had that six game losing streak, Ryan. You just don't like MacMeggy, man. You just don't... I mean, the Bears lost six games in a row,

and he gets people fired up by saying, we need to get our tails in gear and guys. We've got to look ourselves. I need to hear at least a few expletives. Come on, Matt Neck. No, no. No, no. Sharmint Dermann's really, he's really churning things up.

And the thing is, with the bills, it's more than just one piece. Because, look, we already added three guys on this one list from the bills. And the thing is, the one guy we actually did name on his list was the quarterback. You know, it is like. Yeah. And so I think that it's just, they have a combination of everything.

Shaman Dermen just did a great job of building that team up, man. And now you actually seeing that they're performing well. He's a defensive coach. He's allowing the offense to do their thing over there. He's got a, he has a coach over there that he can trust. And his defense is starting to show back up. You know, they had to show versus Steelers, which is unfortunately. but now since they're starting to show back up,

they're really a contender, man. I think Colin Kohler had them rated the number one team in the NFL right now. He's doing that for hot takes. We know how Colin rolls. He knows good and well that the Buffalo Bills are not the number one team in the NFL right now. He knows that. Come on now.

So, you know, my number one team is, y'all know who my number one team is. So the team that's dead last in the league at rushing offense? The team that came back from 17 points that's a week. You know, we're starting to get this office together, buddy. That's true. They're playing great football right now, and their defense is definitely better than the Chief's defense. And if their office can pit up numbers and just keep it close, I think that's going to be one hell of a game if, you know, if that ever happens.

But I don't think it's going to happen this off season. Okay, guys, the finish line, it's almost insight. So since I went with Sean McDermott, let's go with another head coach. however, this head coach clearly not in the running DK for NFL head coach of the year. But Bill O'Brien, he did win the award as the first coach who was not good at his job this season. I think Bill O'Brien is obviously, yeah, like it's not like a positive, like the most, like the best year. But to me, he had like the ripple effects from everything that he's done. You know, the last couple of seasons in, in Houston is just hilarious.

So, you know, obviously, number one, the big D'Andre Hopkins trade over the offseason, that had big, they had a huge impact on the Arizona Cardinals, obviously. It had a huge impact on Houston. They're not as good offensively. Like, they have a great quarterback who's playing really well and putting up really strong numbers, and they're just like a terrible team still. So, you know, to me, just like his, what he's done in stripping that roster of a lot of its talent and a lot of its draft capital, I mean, they're going to give the,

number three overall pick in the NFL draft to the dolphins, which is just, I mean, it's just crazy to me. So I just think Bill O'Brien hit his decision making, the whole drama there in the front office with, you know, like, you know, the power struggle there and all that. I think it's just so fascinating. I think Bill O'Brien, despite the fact that he kind of has run the Texans into the ground a little bit this season, definitely is one of the most intriguing people in the league. Yeah. Kevin, every time I see some of the team. something go wrong with the Houston Texans every time they lose a game at the last second and not able to push it across into the end zone. I just picture that Florida Evans gift from Good Times

as she's slamming down that glass bowl. And Bill O'Brien, he's part of the reason a lot of these things have gone down because he started out the beginning of the season, making big time moves, and the Houston Texans, they were never able to overcome that. There's a lot of lessons to be learned from the failure of Bill O'Brien because I think Bill O'Brien is a good play caller. And I think I was actually thinking last night, sort of separate from all of this, about the job he did at Penn State and how good, a good of a builder he was in that, in that short period. And then how the fact that he led to the Texans to the playoffs, you know, a handful of times in his first few years. And so I think Bill O'Brien's a good football coach who got too much power, guided over his head, didn't understand value. And I think that even if, Cole, you're sitting there and saying, we have to get DeAndre Hopkins off the team, well, wait. Because, you know, a couple of, you know, shortly after. that they got almost nothing, second round picking David Johnson for Hopkins, the, the Vikings got a haul for Stefan Diggs. And did you call all 32 teams? Come on, man. Like, just try to, even if you want these people off your roster or you have to get Laramitonez, whatever it is,

just figure out what fair value is with them, because it felt like Bill O'Brien was making really emotional decisions. And I think that was the downfall of it all. It's he wanted to either he had to have this guy or wanted this guy of his roster, whatever it is, and he screwed his franchise because of it. And so I think that Bill O'Brien can work. You know, if I owned a team, I'd hire Bill O'Brien to call plays. I would not hire him to be in charge of the roster, and I wouldn't give him any more power than he deserved. I think he's an awful executive and a fine coach. But right now, the Texans are in a bad spot because of the mistakes they made with Bill O'Brien. So the long and short of it is that Bill O'Brien, he's an excellent chef when it comes to call

in plays, but he's not great at shopping for the groceries because we saw what would happen if you take a from Bill Parcells. If you want me to make some, do some of this cooking, you got to let me shop for the groceries, but you don't want Bill O'Brien, Ryan, shopping for groceries right now. He's coming back with macaroni and cheese

and all kinds of stuff. That's all like Matt Nagy and Adam Gates over there, doesn't it? Doesn't it? You know what? We're just going to move things along because you've got Ryan through your one and your two, and there's no Pittsburgh Steelers in sight, and I know you couldn't have this list,

and it couldn't be complete without you tacking one of those guys from your squad. Who you going with last week? The reason I'm tagging this guy in is because, first of all, do you see our show? It has nothing but offensive players on here. And this is the problem with the NFL.

This is the problem with the NFL. It's so offensive dominant that they don't care or think about the defense enough. And I also want to add this guy in and tagging on with the Travis Kelsey thing. I think the NFL needs to be more like the NBA when it comes to contracts. And guys get contracts.

off their value to the whole league based off of how they play and not just off of their position. Because there's a lot of guys getting like crazy money out here and they're not performing well and they just play a certain position. Like Sammy Watkins, he's getting $72 million

and his best season with the chief so far is 600 yards. Like, this is crazy. You know? Maybe other players need to choose better positions that pay well. I mean, if you're a youngster right now playing And you're like, I really love playing running back.

Well, if you can play wide receiver, young man, play wide receiver because number two wide receivers that get paid better than number one running backs. All I'm saying is like, Rudy Gober and, you know, LeBron, like, obviously there's still, their contracts are still closed. And Rudy Gobert is one of the best big men in the league. He deserves that, you know, and that's, and like, if you're one of the best players in the league,

you should deserve top-tier money. And not just because you play quarterback, you deserve top-tier money. It should be based off of how you're performing in your active leagues. But the reason I, the guy I have is T.J. Watt. And the reason I have T.J. Y is not just because he's a stealer, but I really feel like he's the best defensive player in the NFL right now. And the reason I say that, Xavier Howard says,

making a good case. They have no more offense. The defense over there and things, he has nine picks. But the reason I'm making a case for this, but he literally has every single statistic you can have as a defensive lineman. He leads in it. And he's really just, he just performing extremely well. and he's still doing well without Bud.

And if Bud was there, I think his stats would even be better than they are now. You know, so I think TJ, man, he just playing on another planet right now. I think he's the best watt in the league right now. You know, he's better than Derek, for sure. Derek. And JJ, I think he got him beat.

Me personally, like, JJ's a good player. But right now, JJ is not a guy that was giving you 22 sacks. J.J. is the guy that's giving you a few sacks. So I think TJ is the best Watt right now, and he's really showing it. And I think he deserves the MVP. And I think this might be the first time. One family might have four MVP's in their trophy case

unless I think Peyton has four in himself. Yeah. Eli didn't contribute to that. JJ Watt with the three defensive player of the year awards. And I need to see T.J. at least, you know, wrangle in two before we start saying how much better he is than JJ because it's all about the complete body of work. I'm talking about now.

I'm talking about now. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And not to say TJ's a one-hit wonder, but JJ, he's got that catalog. It's like, what was that? What was that youngster the other day? What's the slim thug or young thugs saying that Jay Z didn't even have 30 hits?

Yeah, yeah. It's young thug. Young thug, I mean, come on. And then he had to track that one back because he didn't even know what he was talking about. I can't listen to these kids these days. I can't play with these children around. around here. Yeah, I heard that.

I was, I was like, he's tripping. He's definitely tripping. But T.J. Watt is certainly on the same trajectory as his older brother, JJ. We will see how many of those DPO-Ys he brings home when it's all said and done with. Now, Kevin, last but not least, we're going with a guy who apparently, maybe like Brian Dayball in a few days, he's gotten tons of head coaching offers. Tons of them. All he does is turn away head coaching positions.

It's unbelievable. I don't even understand. That's Greg Williams. He's got to keep his phone charging. all the time in case that these jobs come through. Greg Williams is on the phone right now actually turning down a head coaching position as we speak. So I'm thinking about people who will change the face of the NFL for the long term.

Okay. And we mentioned Trevor Lawrence to be one of the most intriguing people in football. And to me, Greg Williams is the face of these teams at the bottom who are trying everything they could at one point during the season to get that number one overall pick. Okay. the Jets are not going to get there because they fired Greg Williams. If Greg Williams stays, they're selling Trevor Lawrence jerseys in New York right now, okay, and in New Jersey. So Greg Williams was all in on the tank.

And I don't think he was intentionally trying to lose games. I just think he was so bad at his job and doing what needed to be done with the Jets that they were going to lose out. They would not have beaten the Rams, certainly. And I was looking at some of the numbers. Rich Sommini wrote a piece about this on ESPN today. And I was just fascinated by it. That is said number one, obviously, they have not run a cover zero blitz since his firing in the last two weeks. That shouldn't be much of a surprise.

Okay. And Frank Bush, the defensive coordinator who came in for Williams, has been solid. He's changed the defense around. They really asked inexperienced cornerbacks to play a lot of man to man. They've changed that. They're now running 62 percent zone according to ESPN. It was around 50-50 when it was under Williams. They're blitzing less, putting less pressure on that defense.

And so what I'm saying now is that the Jets and their defense are running something close to what they should have been doing, which is no way to get Trevor Lawrence. If Greg Williams stays, everything goes fine. The tank is on, all that stuff. The firing of Greg Williams is an inflection point in the next five, 10 years of NFL football. DK., what do you think? Is it fair to say that Greg Williams getting fired by Adam Gase would be like, working at McDonald's, you're dropping some fries down.

And then the dude that they hired to play Ronald McDonald for a birthday party, he's the one that comes in and fires you because essentially that's what Adam Gase is right now. He's a clown masquerading as a head coach in the NFL because whatever I've seen him do, it's not been head coach worthy. Greg Williams, as we know, he's a very competent defensive coordinator. That is a hilarious. I love that. That's great analogy.

Thank you. Yeah, it is kind of hilarious that he got fired at that point. in the season. Like after everything that had gone on for the Jets all year, basically all the last two years. And that was like the tipping point. Like, I don't know, just finished out the year and get it done. Like, get it over with, you know. Um, so I think it's hilarious. And, um, I mean, honestly, you know, I know that like players have rallied around Williams and, and obviously the NFL still holds him in higher card, but it's just a little bit mystifying to me, like how he, like, why he keeps getting these jobs. I don't know. You know, you know, it.

just from a basic let's let's take out the fact that he was running schemes that that were so aggressive that they were never going to work for a defense like the Jets the Jets led the NFL according to our buddy Warren Sharp

in roughing the passer penalties by a massive degree they had 11 in early December I don't think any team had more than five I think and so he doubled up the rest of the league so it was an undisciplined mess the fact that

that there are people in the NFL who still think he should run a defense with how undiscipline they were with the mistakes they made this year with just the fact that, again, I think Greg Williams actually pretty good with that defense in 2019. I don't want to say he's never done anything good.

He has had success in the NFL. But with this team, this coaching job was so bad that I would be extremely hesitant to give him much of an opportunity in 2021, if I'm anybody. I don't think him or Bill O'Brien deserves to be a coach anymore than it. Right. Okay. Wow. Wow. Wow. So even what about as a coordinator,

as far as O'Brien goes, Ryan? So like, I heard you say this earlier. You said like Bill O'Brien did a great job at Penn State. That's like Jim Harbaugh at Michigan. Like they keep giving him a job, but it's just like, ah, it's not like, you know, so I don't, me personally, I feel like he can go to college. You know, I feel he's more of a college type of guy. He does well in that type of atmosphere. But in the NFL, I just don't think he's a good, he's a good coach in the NFL. I don't think that he was in, you know, obviously he was with the Patriots. But when you're with the Patriots, nobody really knows what goes on over there. It could be, it could be all Bill Belichick does everything over there, you know.

So I just, I don't think he deserves a job. I feel like he just tarnished that team so bad. He doesn't even deserve to come back to lead. Like, just go back to college. Just go back to college. That's what happened, another night. night. We saw during the game after the, the, the, the, uh, the bills were putting it on the Patriots. We saw Bill Belichick slam the phone down. That's because it was Bill O'Brien on the

other line. He was asking to get his job back with the Patriots, bills. Like, I'm in the middle of a game. I'm losing here. I'm getting swept for the first time by a division opponent since 2000. It's the Buffalo Bills. I can't believe this is happening. Don't you know when you're supposed to call people and when not? But one thing is for sure, though, Greg Williams, he, he's probably feeling all kinds of, he's got one of those old school office phones. Remember when you got sent to the principal's office and they, he's got one of those folks. He's got like seven different lines. They're all hot right now, all hot with head coaching jobs that I'm sure he's going to turn

down. And guys, I have to tell you, this recap of 2020 and the most intriguing people, Kevin and Danny, it's been a blast, man. I appreciate you guys rolling with Ryan and I for the day. It's so great to hop on with you guys. I've loved us in this podcast all year and just excited to contribute. For those who want to know, Kevin, he's going to be back on Sunday with Norprinciotti to recap week 17 of the NFL season

and take the first look at those playoff matchups in DK. He's going to be back on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Monday, hopefully talking about one or more of those fantasy championships that he was able to reel it. Thanks, guys. Thanks, cool. Thanks, Ryan. All right, now, before we get out of here,

really excited to share a piece from the latest Bacari Sellers podcast. Now, for those who don't know, Bacari, he's a political commentator over on CNN. Now, you probably saw it during that election coverage this year, but he also has a podcast right here on The Ringer. It's called the Bacari Sellers podcast, plain and simple. Now, the pod features Bacari talking to high-profile guests about a variety of topics from politics to sports, pop culture, and all points in between.

Now, on his latest episode, Baccarri sat down with quarterback guru Quincy Avery, a proven quarterback teacher who's trained guys such as Deshaun Watson, Josh Dobbs, and Dwayne Haskins. And Dwayne Askins, well, he's been in the media lately. He was cut from the Washington football team. And Quincy, well, he has a different perspective on the guy because. because he actually trained the young man. So it's really great insight on what Duayne needs to do to get back on the squad. He knows he has some growing up to do.

Plus, you know, Bacari had to ask about those comments. Yeah, the comments that were made by ESPN's Booger McFarlane on Monday night, the ones that were pointed towards African American athletes, specifically in the National Football League. And Booger made mention that the league is made up of 70% of African American players. And I don't think that necessarily he was saying this in a bad way. I think, Ryan, he was putting this out there as maybe a caution label, a cautionary tale, say he doesn't want to see more athletes that look like himself,

you, myself, go down this path again. And for Dwayne Haskins, you know, his ability not to be able to fall in line and do what is asked of a football quarterback in the National Football League, he wasn't able to do that. And for that reason, he's now on the street not able to be the quarterback, for the team that he grew up cheering for. Yeah, no, I totally agree, man. I don't think it's more about just the black athletes, me personally.

I think he was just really trying to tell guys, like, hey, man, you need to just focus on your job. Man, it's a job at hand. People go, like, I remember even JJ was, why I was saying, people have 9-and-5s out here, and they're working their ass off every single day. And dudes need to come into the league and work their ass off, and then focus on building your brand.

It's a lot of guys so focused on building their brand, they're not even playing football first. Like, they're thinking about building their brand first. then you can't be a great football player or a good football player. You can't make the millions that you plan on making. If you just over here trying to be a personality for social media. Like I know a lot of guys that would just work out on social media just so everybody can see them. But then when you actually hit them up and like, hey, let's watch this film.

Let's go work out. And then there ain't no cameras around. It was the same guys that saying, no, I ain't trying to do it. And he's trying to tell guys, man, like, to be a great guy to make the money that you want to make, to build a brand that you really want to build, you really have to be the guy. off the field and focus on the stuff off the camera and then all that stuff on the camera is going it's going to show up.

But it's a lot of guys over here just focus on the wrong thing. And I think that's more what Booker's talking about. He's talking about just focus on doing your job. And then all that extra stuff comes along with it. Because Booker, like, he wasn't a big name guy before he got into ESPN. But, you know, but now he has the brand. He has the, he built,

He built up his portfolio so he's able to be on ESPN Monday night football. You know what I'm saying? Like you have to build up the beat of that. You have to build a brand for that. But he got that through hard work of playing football. And a lot of guys, they're trying to get all that stuff. They didn't think they can make the money on the back end from football. And he's just like, man, he's trying to tell guys, man, don't make that mistake

because there's too many of them that are making that mistake. You know, I've seen plenty of them when I was playing. Yeah. Essentially, he was telling everybody, all you youngsters, out there. You need to crawl before you can walk. And to see Randall Jean Moss, quite possibly the best wide receiver of all time, sit across the desk and agree with everything that Booger said every step of the way. It really just makes me scratch my head when I see all the backlash right now that's coming from Twitter because all Booger was trying to do was give some sage advice to some of the youngsters

from a situation that he's been in once upon a time. And hopefully a few guys out there that they take heed to that advice and they're able to do some of the things that they need to do to stay in the league for many years to come. Now, the full interview, it's going to be on the Bacari Sellers podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast on New Year's Eve. So, you know, snuggle up, listen to that and ring in the new year. The link to the pod, it'll be in the description down below. As for Ryan and I, well, we're going to be back on the ringer NFL show on Monday night. It's another special edition. We're going to be joined by our guy, Caitlin Jones, and Kevin Clark, who's going to roll with us once again.

He's going to help us break down the coaches, if any, were handed their walking papers. Pink slips. We know how it is. It's Black Monday. So until then, have a happy 2020 and 21. Hopefully things will be a little bit better. We leave you with Bacari and Quincy. We'll see you next time.

Peace. Let's talk about one of your clients really quickly in Duane Haskins. Obviously, folks are aware that he was released by the Redskins this week, a rare release of a first round pick after two years. What does Duane need from his next team to ensure that he reaches his potential? I'm not sure if we put as much of it on his next team. I think that we need to put a line share of this on Duane.

What does Duane need to do to be successful with his next team and his next organization? And to me, that is taking steps in terms of maturity, right? And I understand he's only 23. And we all made mistakes. And we had shortcomings at 23, not being as mature as we should have been. It's just difficult when you're not as mature as you need to be for a role and you're the CEO of a billion-dollar company.

And that's what they're asking quarterback to do. So he has to understand the gravity of the position that he's in. And I think that he understands that better now. And he has to understand the requirements of the work ethic and the details that go into being a quarterback of an NFL team. And I think that he's going to be able to do that and be very successful because he still remains one of the most talented people

that I've ever been able to. I was going to ask you that. I mean, you're a quarterback coach. Can the boy play? He's so talented. Duane has all the talent in order to be successful at the position. So if we know that he has a talent,

if he takes the right steps in terms of maturity, doing things in the locker room and doing the film and study work that he needs to do in order to be successful, I think that his career can take a major turn. Like you don't get drafted with a 15th pick for no reason. And it's kind of wild because we talk about maturity, but his own teammates made him a captain.

So there must have been something there. So I'll say that I think he showed flashes of the maturity needed to. He did work really hard on the physical component this offseason. He looked like he was in great shape. I mean, when I was looking at y'all, he looked like a stud. And he was. And I think that there's so much of the quarterback position that isn't just the physical component.

And I'm not sure if he was aware of that. And I'm not sure that I did a good enough job imparting the wisdom on him to help him so he can make those steps. So I look at myself a little bit, like what could I have done better to help him thrive and be successful in those situations? But those are real honest conversations who have to have with himself at this time.

So he can turn his career around. Because I'm excited about. out of form. Like, this is an opportunity that he's facing and you get a chance to turn things around in a way that many others don't. Let's talk about the disappointing shit we got from Bougar McFarland's mouth. At what point do you think black quarterbacks would get the same privilege of not meeting expectations like Paxton Lynch, Johnny Mansell, Sam Darnel, and Josh Rosen, because I don't hear white quarterbacks getting compared to Ryan Leaf every time they don't meet expectations. Yeah, that's so disappointing. I couldn't be more

frustrated that someone like Booder would get up on national TV and talk about black quarterbacks as if one person's one person's ear and not major ears, right? He did things in terms of maybe not getting to the facility early enough, not studying his playbook early enough or hard enough.

It wasn't that he was drunk driving. He didn't hurt anybody. He didn't do anything that truly affected people in a negative way other than maybe the guys on his team in terms of not winning games. But then to him go on and cast a shadow on all black quarterbacks, are all black players is that the reason that we are not successful

is because we don't care or we don't work hard enough and we don't care about the game. On his face, it's patently false. I work with these guys every single day. I see how much work people like Deshawn puts in in order to be one of the best quarterbacks in the world. I see Josh Dobbs, who hasn't got a chance to start an NFL game yet, go out and work his ass off.

Every single day, every opportunity he came to study and prepare like a start. I see all these different guys. There's so many black quarterbacks doing so many good things. things for one guy to have small missteps and him typecast us as a large community. It's really, really frustrating. And we're not getting the credits for him to say, man, black quarterbacks are really, really great because Patrick Mahomes did this or Kyler-Marie did this or Lamar Jackson did this, someone who he said shouldn't even be playing quarterback in the NFL.

Like he's so wrong on so many different levels and it's so frustrating to see somebody be the antithesis of everything that I care about and everything that I work for in terms of the black quarterback in this position and how we're looked at. So seeing that is more than frustrating. I mean, I call his comments dangerous because now white GMs are going to be asking the same questions and bringing up the same points that he made on Monday night football to people like Justin Fields. I mean, it hurts down the line.

He's trying to take money out of young black people's pockets is what he's doing. I just think that he became old real quickly. And, you know, the whole build-a-brand thing. just threw me off. I mean, that for me didn't necessarily make any sense. A lot of these guys go in Deshaun Watson as a whole brand. I mean, that may not be his goal, but he's a, he's not, he is a franchisees. He's a face of companies. He does all those different things. And to knock somebody because they also care about how people perceive them, when when people like Bugar go up there and talk about people when they perceive them the wrong way, we have to be conscious of our

brands, especially as black quarterbacks. I think that it's important. And it's not as if we can only do one thing. We can care about, both care about our brand and care about winning. We can care about our brain and care about working hard. And him just doing all those things in the off season displaying him working hard shouldn't be a knock on him. He's 22, 23 years old. He cares about the same thing that every other 22 and 23 year old cares about. That's how they're perceived by other.