The Ringer NFL Show - Training Camp Takeaways From the Road | The Ringer NFL Show (Ep. 275)

Episode Date: August 2, 2018

The Ringer's Robert Mays and Kevin Clark take a break from training camps to discuss Antonio Brown's antics at practice (03:00), the special combination of John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan (15:15), big contracts for Taylor Lewan and Stefon Diggs (30:00), and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's talk fantasy football. The league, the rules, the punishments, the trash talk. Fantasy football starts with you, Commissioner. It all fires up when the league gets back together. And while you spent the offseason doing whatever non- Fantasy football thing it is, you do, Yahoo has spent the offseason making some serious upgrades to enhance your league experience. So when you hit the Renew League button on Yahoo.com slash Fantasy Football, your season will be legendary.

Grab the league, set a draft date, and let the fantasy football. ball flow. Renew your league now at yahoo.com slash the ringer fantasy football. To the ringer NFL show, part of the ringer podcast network. I'm Robert Mays and joining me on the other line. It's Kevin Clark. Kevin, how you doing, buddy?

Robert, I am parked in a convenience store parking lot in suburban Chicago and you're on the West Coast. We've switched lives. I'm outside at AT&T store in Sunnyvale, California, stealing their Wi-Fi recording from the parking lot. Whenever anybody wants to get into the business, they should just listen to what we just said on a loop over and over again.

It is absolutely the greatest job in the world. We are so lucky to have it. Correct. Having said that, having said that, this is not a glamorous time of year. I will be tweeting a picture of my car setup that I have going right now. I have the mic propped up on the steering wheel in order to use my hands because I have my computer on my leg sitting on the middle console so I can look at this outline and be able to look stuff up as we're going here.

This job is nothing but glamorous. This is fantastic. So the reason that we have these makeshift setups is because we're going to these training camps right now. We're bouncing around the country. I'm on the West Coast right now. I spent the past two days with the 49ers. You have spent a lot of time

at a bunch of different camps. You were in Detroit this morning, I believe. I don't know where I am. I was in Detroit this morning. suburban Chicago's, I probably know suburban Chicago, but you may not have any idea where you are. I have no clue where I am. So I was in Detroit earlier today. I was in Cleveland, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia.

And those are the places. And, you know, you get the whole gamut. I mean, you get the gauntlet. And you get the Super Bowl champions. You get to see the Steelers practice. you get to see that efficiency, and then you get teams that are trying to be like those teams. And I think that you can see the difference

when you're on a Steelers practice field versus maybe the Cleveland Brown Cincinnati Bengals. And that's what's so fascinating with this time of year. Yeah, you get a real feel for teams and you get a feel for where teams are and just the overall attitude around certain franchises. That's what I like about it. I have not made as many stops.

I've been in Chicago for two practices. and San Francisco for two practices. I'm doing bigger stories there, so it was a little better use of time, and then my kind of trip starts in earnest going to Napa tomorrow for the Raiders and then through the Midwest, but it's still a lot of stuff to talk about

from the first two stops I've made, and you've made plenty more. So let's get to some specific training camp observations, and let's just kind of start with three things that have jumped out to us so far. So, Kevin, let's start with yours. If you had to kind of pick the first thing that comes to mind,

when you're breaking down what's really been a noticeable aspect of some of the camps you've been in what's the first thing you talk about. Okay, this is going to be sort of a weird way. I'm going to get into

some of the team building stuff and some of the talks I've had with coaches in a minute. But I want to talk about Antonio Brown as a practice player. I think that, you know, we talk about Steph Curry and what he looks like in practice

and everybody gets to, in the game early, two hours or whatever, watch him shoot threes. Antonio Brown, I feel like he's trying to replicate that a little bit in this regard. He obviously catches everything that's thrown his way. He practiced deep balls all the time. But he just has his presence about him that I've literally never seen in practice.

I've been going to training camps for six and a half years since I was 25 years old. And I just, first of all, he now celebrates. catches, like with the crowd. And I don't mean like 11 on 11 catches. I mean one on one catches. He just goes into the crowd and gets them hyped up. But he's also started, he's also started to do this weird thing. He has some friends on the sideline. And he will like talk to them and tell them exactly what happened after he catches a pass. And so I was privy to this the other day.

That was fascinating. He came over and his friend was sort of near me and a few other people. And he was loud and he was probably 15 yards away. And he was loudly just proclaiming the difference between Benno-Othesburg's passes and Landry Jones's passes. The main difference being that Landry Jones throws his deep ball a little later. And so you cannot watch the ball. You just have to run as fast as you can. And I actually thought he was talking about the cornerback at first, but he clarified it.

It was Landry Jones he was talking about. And so I just like Antonio Brown, just listening to him at training camp, yelling at his friends, it let me into this world. and he was talking a little bit more about hand placement and stuff like that, literally on the field to his friends from 15 yards away, 20 yards away. It led me into a side of Antonio Brown I'd never seen before, which is Antonio Brown in the football mind,

and seeing him at practice, catching the passes celebrating. I heard something, and I thought this was fascinating. He yelled at someone that he was going to catch punts, but he saw it was from the jugs machine. and so he wouldn't catch punts that weren't kicked because I guess he doesn't want to see

the spin of the ball and you're talking about a guy who's just operating a maximum efficiency both physically and mentally and I just thought it was an absolute pleasure to watch. Peter King was there the other day and we spoke about him

Antonio Brown, how he has people just like essentially mug him when he's at the jugs machine. Have you heard about this? No. So essentially he's like bother him? Like people

come up to him, like, teammates or friends or whatever when he's at the jugs machine and do whatever they can to get him and not catch the pass. Like, illegal, like, like, like, like, just drape him as much as he possibly can and he'll still catch the pass. And he feels like that's a way to build strength with contested catches. And it's just, I've never really been around as charismatic, a practice player, especially at a non-quarterback position. Because I think we've all seen the quarterback sort of yell at the receivers or tell the receivers to do whatever and get little micromanagey or really smart.

You know, Peyton Manning was famous for being really smart in practice. Tom Brady does that kind of stuff. But from a non-quarterback position, I've never seen, certainly a wide receiver as dominant in practice and it's interesting in practice, Antonio Brown. That's pretty great. Yeah, different guys have different routines, and

you can really tell when people have been around for such a long time that they've just settled into who they are every single element and practice is a part of that. And I think that's what kind of struck out to or stuck out to me over the last couple days most about the 49ers is that you have certain guys on that team that have been around for so long. You're Joe Staley's of the world, Richard Sherman. They have these players that are just NFL staples and know what they're doing.

It's such a feel. And then on the flip side of that, you have just the youth on that team. And I think that is what's jumped out to me about San Francisco is that they're in this super interesting mode in their trajectory of wanting to win right now because they probably can with Carapolo and also understanding that they're in year two of a pretty full-scale rebuild. And that's why kind of seeing where certain players are in their stages of development among that group is fascinating. And a couple of guys have stuck out to me since I've been here.

One was O'Kello-Wetherspoon, who was the third round pick last year out of Colorado, really long cornerback. It came in as more rotational. player probably four or five games into last season, started playing a lot. Physically had a little bit of a ways to go. He was kind of scrawny. These coaches have talked about that this year. And then the other guy that, you know, I really found myself watching a lot of yesterday

was Mike McGlinchie who was their top 10 pick this year, the right tackle. And how did he look? Because people were talking about him as a super need pick. Is he, does he look? I don't want to, it's like the fifth day of practice. but is he a guy who looks like maybe more than a need pick and he might actually be a top 10 talent? So I think that you see what made him so attractive.

He is massive. You see him standing next to Joe Staley. He's much bigger than Joe Staley. I mean, he makes Joe Staley look a small man. Joe Staley is not a small man. And his feet for a man of that size are remarkable. He moves so quick. It's impressive.

I was watching him yesterday in this past Russian. show that I actually really liked. You know, people talk all the time about, you know, ones on ones with defensive and offensive linemen. The 49ers are doing this thing that it was a combination drill where it was two guys live at the same time and it was designed to work on twists and stunts, which is one of the things that's most lacking in offensive line play in the league right now. And you see where his biggest weakness comes up, and that's how weak he can be.

He's tall, but he's a little thin. He was not a massive man in terms of bulk. so he overcompensates for his lack of strength by kind of leaning a little bit more than he should and against twists and stuff like that, it's a problem because he gets out over himself a little bit and he doesn't stay as square as he wants to be because he doesn't trust how strong he is.

So I feel like as he adds bulk and as he understands his functional strength in the league, that kind of stuff is going to correct itself. But you can definitely understand why a team wanted to take a chance on him and those feet, that frame, and how technically sound he is. in a lot of other ways are kind of hard to deny. That's interesting.

You know, what I find interesting about the 49ers and just being a young, good team, young talented team in the modern NFL is we have so much evidence now that a good team can go from extremely young and extremely, I guess you could say, irrelevant to the national discussion to absolutely competing in one year.

Yes. And it's a rookie league now. happened though. But what I'm saying is maybe five years ago we would have looked at that Niners team and said, hey,

they're a year away from being a year away, that kind of thing, right? But there's no reason in 2018 with the way this is just a rookie league now and at first four years

of your career league, there are real, I don't think any of us would be surprised if the 49ers competed in a, in a relatively large way this year.

I totally agree, but you need things to break your way. And I think that was why I really liked watching Witherspoon. Because he's a guy, it's like, all right, you know, it's year two. You'd hope he plays a little bit better. He's a full-time starter now. And I'm watching that guy today.

And he just looked like he was totally locked in. I mean, really good in 11-on-11 drills. They played in the red zone late. He had a couple past breaks up, break-ups. He stuck with George Kittle in the middle of the field, which for a taller corner is often hard to do when you have to change direction like that. Yeah. Look, so comfortable doing it.

And it's one of these things, and this is small. and maybe we read too much into it. I know I sometimes do. I really like when guys are into practice, when they're bouncing to the music, when they feel like they're just having this presence about them on the sideline. And he really had that today.

And combined with how he was playing, it was just like, man, if that guy can kind of come along, if Sherman comes in and gives them something, maybe the back end of that defense comes together a little quicker than people would have anticipated. And maybe if that defense takes a step forward in a way we didn't think they could, you already know what the offense could be, you've seen it.

Maybe this team is for real. And it's just, that's the kind of stuff that it's easy to get excited about this time of year. But when you see actual tangible reasons that you should be excited, it allows it to happen. So the Rams are the Rams. Separate conversation. But the Seahawks are not going to be good this year. The Cardinals are probably not going to be good this year. And that's a couple of wins there.

That's a couple of easy wins, a piece. and if they can beat the bad teams and they can beat the bad teams in front of them, they are an absolute wild card contender, in my opinion. I totally agree. And let's get to our second thing because I want to talk about the Niners just a little bit more. The other aspect that...

Wow, is this just a Niners episode? I've only been to two camps. I know, but I'm excited. All right, can I... I'm going to go real quick. I had John Dorsey conversation. I didn't even know what day it was. Two days ago, three days ago.

I had a John Dorsey conversation at some point this year. And I'm impressed what the Browns are doing. He basically laid out the blueprint. You can read about it on the ringer.com this week when this goes up. It'll probably go up the same day. He has a plan. And the plan, and I thought this was fascinating, Robert. He said, I don't want to be the youngest team in the league.

I want to be a top five youngest team. That's the formula. And you can compete and be a top five youngest team and not do a total rebuild. have guys like Tyrod Taylor, Jarvis Landry. He's really, really, really excited about Demarius Randall. And I just kind of like the vibe in Cleveland. I don't think they're going to compete. I'm not going to group them in with the San Francisco stuff

where they're going to be able to compete for a wild card. I think they're two years away. But I just thought that the vibe around there, the talent around there, you know, I spoke with Miles Garrett for a long time. He is as interesting and explosive a guy as there is in this league. He is going to, you know, John Dorsey told me this. I'm not writing it in this one because I'm going to write it in a story later this training camp. And you, you listener, can listen to it.

He fully expects Miles Garrett to double a sack total. And he had seven and a half last year last year. And so, well, I mean, 15 sacks. That's not, that's not. That sounds right, though, man. I can absolutely see that happening. Oh, no, of course. Of course.

I'm just saying, I'm just saying if he's healthy, that checks out. I'm just saying that those are the internal expectations in Cleveland is 15 sacks from Miles Garrett these are best defensive player I mean I just I they're not going to go here's my bold prediction they're not going to go one in 15 that's both that's well done buddy I appreciate you really going on the limb there and here they come the youngest team

versus one of the five youngest teams I think that's kind of what I was talking about in a similar way with San Francisco it's this balancing act of hitting the reset button with a lot of draft picks and kind of trying to add draft capital to rebuild that way, but also bringing in guys that can help you tow that line. And that's where the Richard Sherman's of the world come in. And I think that that's a really smart way to think about it. So getting back to the Niners and just another aspect that I wanted to chat about is that

this offense last year, obviously they led the league in scoring average over the last four weeks. We saw what they could do with Carapolo. But I still think there's kind of a layer there that has been, that we haven't seen, that they can uncover. And it's twofold, in my opinion. One, it's getting back their entire stable of weapons. And I think that having Pierre Garsohn back, having George Kittle fully healthy in year two,

the guys they brought in that aren't necessarily going to be the biggest contributors, but may be able to have somewhat of an impact. Another guy that jumped out to me today was Dante Pettis, the second round pick that they got from Washington, the wide receiver. He's a guy, I think, that has such a knack, for being open and just makes so much sense in this offense. He actually beat Weatherspoon down the line for a touchdown in the last play of 11 on 11.

And again, I was talking about how much I enjoyed Weatherspoon. The fact that he roasted him, I think says a lot about where he already is. So you think about just the entire bevy of weapons that they have that wasn't at their disposal last year. They leaned on Marquis Goodwin in such a pronounced way because they had to. And I think that even though the trajectory and the journey that they had to go on wasn't what they would have wanted considering Garsohn got hurt, they were thin, everything else. But it really turned out for the best because I was talking to Marquis Goodwin today and he pretty much told me it was such an advantage to be thrown to the fire like that

because he's always known he was a complete receiver. And because they didn't have any others, he had to be the number one receiver. And I think that that's just one. one of those things. It's a lucky accident. And that's really helped whatever sort of development this offense was going to have is getting guys in positions they maybe weren't ready for earlier. And then you combine that with what Kyle Shanahan can now do because the offense is complete. I was talking to Kyle Usecheck about this and I thought it was really interesting.

And it felt like last year they were still just understanding what the offense was. and now that it's finalized and now that the players are in place everything it's really interesting because rhythm matters to all offenses but it feels like to this offense it can matter even more because when Shanahan is able to kind of get into a groove and he knows that they're going to be able to sustain drives he's so comfortable using one play to set up another five plays later

and I think that's allowed the layers of the offense to kind of develop I mean, Hughes Check was telling me yesterday, we're getting to the point now where Shanahan just can't help himself. He's really just fucking around to fuck around when it comes to like installing weird formations and motions off of plays they've already run that are more conventional. And that's just not the type of stuff you saw last year.

Five games of Garoppelo, he barely settled into a condensed version of the offense and they're putting up 28 a game. And now that you can see the full-fledged version of what they want to be, I think that we're really going to see some fireworks. I truly believe that. Lynch and Shanahan.

Top 10 Coach GM combo right now? Yeah. I mean, I'm biased because you know I feel about Shanahan. I've always said this. I really do think that he's special and I feel like they've settled in such a great partnership.

Should we do a coach GM ranking show? I'm down to do that. That works for me. It feels like that's an off-season thing. Well, we can do a short version of it. We're going to wait until next May? Well, we can do a short version of it in the midst of a training camp show. That works for me.

But I was talking to Lynch today. It really does feel like they've settled into such a good version of their partnership. Because they have such a good understanding of what each other want. They have really similar values. And those are the best combinations. Think about, in my mind, what has been probably the two best coach GM partnerships in the league. And that's Bela-Cha, or excuse me, that's Schneider and Carol and Dmitroff and Dan Quinn. I don't think any two coaches are more aligned in their ethos than Thomas Dmitroff and Dan Quinn are.

And I think that Shanahan and Lynch are kind of cruising toward a version of that. And those are the successful partnerships that you see. I totally agree. I mean, it is so rare. You hear all these nightmare stories, and I hear them all over the road about different cities where the coach and the GM don't get along. and when that happens, it really, really happens. Like, there is no, there's no such thing really as a medium relationship between a coach and GM.

It's either really harmonious or really bad. And there's no, like, C level there, right? And that's sort of how I feel. It's either A or F. And those guys in San Francisco are in A right now. Seattle is, even though they're in a rebuild as an A, exactly what you said. I mean, there's a handful of them. I would, I think, I think that less need and Sean.

McVeigher like that right now. There's a handful more. And so I think that that's, you cannot, that is as valuable as anything except maybe a franchise quarterback in the NFL. And I think where some of the cracks in those relationships start to form is when just a lack of respect emerges. And I think that background matters for that. I mean, think about how many coaches that are former players don't respect general managers

that weren't players. It's like, well, what the fuck do you know? How do you know what you're talking about? And I think that if you think about the backgrounds of Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch, how easy would it have been for that to have happened? John Lynch is a whole-famed player. Kyle Shanahan never played in the NFL. Kyle Shanahan, they're barely played in college.

He's a coach's son. It would be very easy for John Lynch to look down his nose at the pedigree Kyle Shanahan had coming into this job. And the opposite has happened. I think in a way, John almost has so much respect for Kyle that, one, he both reveres the opinions Kyle has about certain positions and players. And two, John almost takes it as a badge of honor when he's able to convince Kyle of something. And that is so important when that bar is as high as it is between those guys.

And I absolutely, after talking to both of them, believe that's how it is with John and Kyle. Yep. All right. My third one, Philadelphia Eagles. Carson Wentz is pretty much doing a lot of things I wasn't expecting him to do. The way I was there the first day, I was there the second day,

and he was doing drills. And I was expecting the Eagles to take him a little bit slow because they won a Super Bowl with a guy who's not him, and I figured that maybe they would rely on their roster depth to the first couple weeks of the season. The big question now is if he starts week one, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't rule it out just because I think he's so competitive and I think it eats at him that he wasn't on the field at the Super Bowl in Minneapolis. I think that really, really eats at him.

And I'm fascinated to see how that progresses because I just think if there's any team they could afford to give him September off and say, just hang out in the cold tub for a while. It's that team. And I'm fascinated. you know, there is forward thinking and as and as smart as any team in the league as we know. And so they're going to do what's right. And I'm fascinated to see how it plays out.

Did he, was he really just kind of full go? I mean, what sort of limitations were on him? I mean, he wasn't full go. I mean, there were two, there were two reporters, one of whom was Peter King and one of whom was, I don't remember, who basically said if you if you, if he didn't have a knee

brace on, he would look completely normal. I mean, he wasn't, he wasn't doing wind sprints or anything, but he was in seven-on-sevons. He was in, he was, he was, nine-on-seven, excuse me, he was, he was in all that stuff. He was stretching. When he was

stretching, he was holding onto his knee, but yeah, he was, he was there, he was practicing, he was active, he's not on pup. He's, he looks like an NFL player right now. That's pretty, I mean, that's remarkable, and it's important. I feel like when you're riding the type of wave that they're on,

I don't blame him for wanting to get on that wave as soon as possible. No, I get it. I get it. It's also the kind of thing where you think about how to fight complacency in the NFL, because you hear it so often there's kind of the winner's curse, and most of that is just guys like Trey Burton getting signed away in free agency and having to trade guys or getting in salary cap problems or whatever. I mean, there's a lot of that.

But I think complacency is a really big thing. the NFL. I think that it is a much bigger thing that people give a credit for. What's one way to fight complacency and shake it up? Well, I know what it is. How about getting your starting quarterback back after winning the Super Bowl? That's a nice little wrinkle for 2018 if you're the Philadelphia Eagles. And I think that can, if he does come back, and even if it's in October, and even if he looks really good by then, that's a shot in the arm they're going to need. And I think that that's, that's a great rallying cry to have. Let's, let's win one for Carson. That's such a good point.

I mean, it's so hard to win again. And unless you're this mindless eating machine like the Patriots are, it's so hard to get back just because there's such an emotional toll of getting there the first time. And that's one way to get over that emotional toll. The Seahawks who did as good a team-building job as any team in the last 25 years won one Super Bowl. One.

Yeah. It's hard. It's hard to win. It's hard to win, too. And there are emotional elements to that. And it's a great point. I actually want to talk about Trey Burton because that's a, my third thing. I was in Bourbonnet for two days and it was just so weird to see bears

practices where there were too many guys catching the ball. Uh-oh. It was so hard to reconcile the fact that they had like waves of past catchers. When you consider what the bears have been the last two years, there is zero margin for error in their past catching group. It's like, if Kevin White is not a huge part of this, we are screwed. And they are so far away from that now, again, it's just weird to see. Kevin White is an afterthought. Kevin White is in these drills and he's part of 11 on 11. I'm not depending on him too much, bud. And that's exactly right. And they don't have to now. You have a combination of Taylor Gabriel. and Alan Robinson kind of rotating in there.

You have formations that involve two to three tight ends on the field together now that Trey Burton's there. They're using Tariq Cohen as a slot receiver, as an outside receiver. Anthony Miller is in the mix now. You're watching them move through 11 on 11 drills. It almost looks like a hockey game because they're able to kind of substitute in waves based on whatever personnel groups they're using. And it's weird.

It's just so odd after you where you consider what they've been the last two seasons. Do you know how I know it's not a hockey game? Because Chicago is good at it, good at hockey. Oh, you're an asshole. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I knew some sort of dig was coming. All right. I want to say, I guess, one more thing. I think it was so apparent just how many different formations that team is going to use. And they did this last year. I'm actually writing about this for tomorrow.

Just kind of the differences in approach and the wholesale kind of fund a mental difference between this year's bears and last year's bears when you consider what last year's chiefs and last year's bears looked like. The idea that now there's a purpose behind all these formations, how the motions are working, why they're making Tariq Cohen do the things he's doing. I really do think that there's just a complete 180 and talking to a couple guys there that are new, they really communicated just how different the players that have been around think it is. And Chase Daniel told me that Kyle Long said,

it has never been like this this early in training camp since he's been in Chicago and I think that it's very telling. So we'll see. I don't know how it's going to go, but I know it's different and I'm happy about that. I'm happy for you. Thanks, buddy. I'm excited to watch an interesting football team. I need a happy maze who's fired up about the Bears. I think that's a nice wrinkle to football season. There it is. All right. Because I think every Monday we get all upset or I get all upset for you and you're all bummed out the Bears lost like the Lions by 20 points or whatever. And I feel like we need to get that going. I want victorious maze.

I'm all for that version of the football season. I don't know if it'll ever be victorious. I'll always be excited with like a dread looming on the horizon. But at least that's better than utter disappointment and just the resignation that it's all terrible. All right. Before we keep going, let's take a quick break. If you love to score amazing deals at incredible hotels, you'll love Hotel Tonight.

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Book hotels in 10 seconds in three taps in a swipe. There's even the H.T. Parks program where the more you book, the better of the deals get. Robert, we're on the road right now. I am using hotels tonight like a maniac. I only basically get my hotels three, four days in advance, and it's really all I can use. There's no other way to do it. It's a very hectic time. We don't know when we're going to be and where.

and it's fun, but that's why Hotel Tonight's so useful. Get the Hotel Tonight app now to start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels. That's Hotel Tonight, the only booking app you need. All right, buddy, let's do a quick kind of news recap of the last week or so because there have been some interesting developments on the contract front, and I really want to make one just broader conversation here. So we had three guys get new deals at Left Tackle. Ter Luan with the Titans, Dwayne Brown with the Seahawks,

and Jake Matthews with the Falcons. So the Terrell-Luang contract resets the market at left tackle. Luan now making $16 million a year, the richest offensive line contract in the history of the NFL on a per-year basis. And it did feel like this was coming. When you consider how much the guard market is blown up, when you look at Zach Martin's contract, when you consider just the fact that you have guys like Andrew Norwell

making upwards of $14 million a year, the hierarchy that exists on the offensive lines led me to believe that some of the top of market tackles were going to get that type of money and Luan's considered that guy. So he's making $16 million, which is comparable to where the wide receiver market is right now. Stefan Diggs also getting a contract upwards of $16 million a year

if he said it hits its incentives. In your opinion, does it make sense for a guy like Taylor Luan to be making the same money as a guy like Stefan Diggs. Do you feel like the value at those two positions is aligned such that they're worth the same amount? Okay. So I talk all the time about how the Super Bowl champion and the teams that compete for a Super Bowl directly impact how everybody else builds their team because there's just not enough forward-thinking bold people who are going to say, you know what,

I'm going to do my own thing. So what is the number one lesson from the Eagles, aside from have a deepest hell roster? Build through the lines. build through the damn lines because, I mean, the Eagles defensive line and offensive line were really good last year. They lost Jason Peters and Baitai comes in and he's not Jason Peters, but he played respectfully. And I think that there's a lot to learn from that, from how they build their team. And I think if you're an NFL team right now and you have a good tackle, you're going to keep them. And that's the price you pay. Stefan Diggs is really, really, really good. As is Adam Thielen. I would say right now, I mean, is there any team that just, I mean, there are a couple of

I would put the Vikings in the top five of just handling their business. I mean, every deal gets done. Totally. I just don't, like, I wasn't worried about the Diggs deal. I mean, I think some teams just screw around and they somehow lose a Stefan Diggs, you know, or they somehow have to cut some guy. Yeah. I just, I just, the Vikings just handle their business.

They just quietly go ahead and sign Kirk Cousins and get Sheldon Richardson and Terrence Newman's on his, you know, 33rd year and he's still going to be. be good. I mean, I just, I am impressed with the Vikings organization. I know this wasn't your question, but I, I'm impressed with their ability to get things done. Now, the value thing, I think it's okay. I think with the rising cap, it's all okay. I do think an elite wide receiver is worth the money. I think a tackle is worth the money and it's just a price of doing business. I think the reason that's true is because especially at those positions, their scarcity. at wide receiver, maybe you can find another one because more of those guys are out there.

But those top left tackles, there aren't any out there. Think about how barren those free agent classes have been. Yeah, I mean, but, you know, tackle is a bit like quarterback in that maybe it's a little expensive to play the game at that position. But guess what? Playing the game and paying those guys, 15 million, 20 million, whatever it is, it's a hell of a lot better than not having a good player at that position. And especially we're at a position that can completely torpedo your offense. You can survive without a $16 million a year. People get fired. People get fired for not having good quarterbacks or tackles.

That's how you want to get fired, have a bad line or a bad quarterback. I totally agree. I mean, it really is the trajectory that the Titans wanted to be on. I totally agree about the Vikings as well, by the way. They're just one of those teams. The Eagles, they sign their guys before they need to. They sign their guys months before they're going to hit free agency. and we'll see if they get Anthony Barr done now.

And like you said, there's no reason based on the track record they've shown recently to think that they're not going to get that done. I have a news question for you. Okay. Do the Chargers spend their offseason like robbing tombs and getting curses put on them?

I didn't even want to talk about it because it makes me so sad. Is that what they do? Do they have team building team building trips to Egypt where they just get cursed by different mummies? Have you, can you remember?

a player with that much talent being more betrayed by his body in recent years just consistently than Jason Barrett? No. I mean, I don't, I mean, probably, probably is one, but no. Not in a convenience store parking lot in suburban Chicago. I'm not even sure, by the way, Mays which type of, so. I don't know if I'm in the south suburbs or the west suburbs. I have no idea where I am, legitimately, none.

That comes to happen this time of year. I don't really know where I am either. I'm somewhere, I think, in Sunnyvale, but I have no. I absolutely could not tell you my zip code or actual town right now. Have I ever told you about the time I was lost in South Carolina? And I went into a Starbucks. I was around Panthers Camp. And I said, excuse me, ma'am, what town are we in?

What area are we in? And she goes, I don't know. And she worked at Starbucks in the town we were in. Isn't that very strange? That's my weirdest training camp conversation ever. I guess that's weird. Maybe she's from not around there. Maybe she traveled far to work.

Well, how does that have? How does she not know where we are? I don't know. How is that? How is that? And I guess that's weird. That's weird. If that happened to you,

you'd be like, that, that's weird. This is a strange interaction I'm having right here, because you work where I am right now. I'm just driving through. That's fair. I'm sure you have plenty of those,

though. I'm not sure if that's your weirdest. If you really had to dig into the bad of the, that's not the weirdest thing. I'm seeing, I mean, the weirdest stuff I've seen. I mean,

I saw a bear hop over all, four lanes of a highway one time? That's not something you want to see. If you saw what I... Maze, Maze, if you saw this, you would never go outside again. I don't mind bears. I mean, I'm...

Dude, the bear can jump a lot. You don't want to be... You want to be on the same earth as that bear. Because it can come for you. The bear, the bear can jump a lot. You should consider having like an animal planet type show. I would love to hear your thoughts on various animals. Just me just losing my mind.

I think it was in upstate New York. I just could not believe this bear. Unbelievable. What if you saw a bear do the broad jump? That would just be something. It would be an entirely different level for you. You wouldn't be able to handle. I sent you a photo.

I said you a photo. The lions at their training camp have a broad jump that kids can do. This is my ideal type of playground. It's just nothing but athletic testing. You were over the moon. You were so happy sending me that photo. I was really proud of you. I'm glad you're having those moments.

It shows that the. that lions are now devoted to analytics. They're back, baby. They're just going to be tracking those kids' numbers. That's what European soccer teams do. I talked to a guy years ago who ran one of these big soccer teams, and he was telling me that basically, when they do community camps,

because they can sign kids in like 12 years old. And when they do like community camps that are under the guise of, come hang out with your favorite player, they're actually looking for kids with a good hand-eye coordination. And then they'll talk to their parents and be like, do you want to come train at our facility? Can't do that in the NFL. There's a draft.

I mean, yeah. Most international sports stuff makes me sad. All right. Let's do one more thing before we get out of here. One takeaway from a new face you saw in a new place. What's yours? Tyrod Taylor. Okay, so Baker Mayfield is in no way bad.

He is not disappointing. He's doing nothing that would talk me out of him being the number one overall pick. But right now he's not pushing Tyrod Taylor. Taylor because Tyler Taylor is really good and he's a pro and he knows exactly what he's doing and he knows how to handle it and he's making fun of Joe Flacco for not helping him when he was a rookie and so he's helping Baker Mayfield. They've got an RV somewhere on the premises. I looked for it. I couldn't find it. And I just think that Buffalo, I like Buffalo. I like the, I believe in Sean McDermott and Brandon Bean, but Tyrod Taylor is really good. And here's what Cleveland

has. They either got a guy they're going to sign for maybe another year, another two years. bring Baker along more slowly or they have a guy they could even trade mid-season if they wanted to. That's just speculation on my part. Or if he balls out this year, you pull a Matt Castle, you franchise and you tag him next year. I mean, you have an asset and you should keep him. The number one thing you can do to make a massive leap as an NFL team is go from bottom of the barrel quarterback play to at least average quarterback play. And that's exactly what the Browns are going to do this year going from. He's above average.

I like Tyrod Taylor. I agree with you. I agree with you. I'm just saying if you even temper expectations and you have even a pessimistic view of Tyrod Taylor, he is so much better. He is a real NFL quarterback. And going from not a real NFL quarterback to one is the number one jump you can make. And the Browns did that no matter how it works out.

Yeah. No, I believe in the Browns. in a very relative sense. Mine is Matt Nagy just because, again, just the most important new face I spent time around. I was talking to Trey Burton,

and I wanted to ask him this because I feel like he had such a unique kind of perspective on it. Coming from Philly, where we understand how much that brain trust of offensive coaches mattered in the development of that team

and what they ended up becoming. The idea of him and Helfrich kind of bouncing off each other, learning off each other, having those Oregon kind of concepts come in It's exciting. I mean, it's exciting. It's just something that you're really looking forward to what the offense could look like. It's going to be something new.

And I like it. I mean, who knows if the Matanagia air will work out, but there is no reason to not have hope that it will. So it's a good start. I mean, around two teams that I think rightfully have a lot of optimism surrounding them. So I will eventually kick to some teams that don't. But at this point, it's a rosy outcome training camp. Or a rosy outlook training camp, Kevin.

There are no bad teams. Every team I've gone to and will go to. All 17 of them are going to compete. There you go. All right, buddy, that's all we got for today. As always, thank you guys for joining us. We will be back with more regularity here as training camp ramps up, as the season ramps up. Everybody's good. Everybody's good. Especially the bills, Browns and Bengals. I've talked myself into the Lions somehow. Wow. Everybody's good then. Okay.

Everybody's good. I'm not going to the Seahawks. I'm not going to the Seahawks, so I can finesse that. All right, guys. Thanks a lot. We'll talk to you soon. If you love to score amazing deals in incredible hotels, you'll love Hotel Tonight. Hotel Tonight partners with hotels to sell their unsold rooms, helping you find sweet deals at cool, top-rated hotels.

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