The Ringer NFL Show - Tyrod's Tip, Rookie Trouble, and Jalen Ramsey's Interview | GM Street (Ep. 281)

Episode Date: August 15, 2018

The Ringer's Michael Lombardi and Tate Frazier sit down to discuss the second episode of HBO's 'Hard Knocks' before looking at Jalen Ramsey's interview with GQ. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is August 15th. And joining me in the studio for the first time in a very, very long time. Mr. Michael Lombardi, Lombardi, how you doing? I'm good, Tate Fraser. It's good to see you again. Nice to be back. I'm happy to have you back. I know that you're going to miss Jersey a lot,

being back on the West Coast, but I've missed you a lot in studio because it's not as fun to talk to you on the phone. I love listening and seeing you react to all the Hugh Jackson antics that come out of hard knocks in person. So I'm happy that we can do that today. We should say we'll do some cleanup duty at the top here.

We apologize. Our schedule seems to fluctuate every single week with these shows and when they come out. But moving forward, we believe that we will be recording shows Mondays and Wednesdays. That is the plan. And we're going to have a show Monday. And we're going to have a show next Monday. We're going to hit a lot of topics over the weekend, all the big games, all the big happenings of the preseason, of course. And then Wednesdays we're going to do like we're going to do today, which is review hard knocks and then just talk about, you know, some random stories around the league.

And Bella's a little disappointed because by her not, by me being here, she can't get bark on the phone. And then, you know, she doesn't get her voice heard. So because she has a lot of commentary about Hugh Jackson as well. Of course. A lot of people out there. She was in Cleveland too at one time. So, you know, you got to get that out of there. Yeah, you got to have a lot of thoughts.

And obviously, we know that. It's too good, isn't it? It's the best. It is HBO and HBO understands how to make good TV. And luckily, we have some real stars this season. And Hugh Jackson is the biggest star, right? I mean, he is coming back. It's a peak in the Hughes world.

I think it's an interesting thing. I think for fans, it's interesting to look into the world of what actually goes on behind closed doors. You know, that's one of the things I tried to do in my book, Gridiron Genius. I tried to take the reader behind the shit. 27 days until Good Iron Genius comes down. I'm counting those days, boy, I'm counting them. And so this is kind of like a peek into it. And it's a little bit of a little bit of insight into how it is, but don't always think.

Remember this opening line. The key here is Bill Walsh told me in 1984, we're only competing against eight. So not all teams look like this. That's what I'll say. Good, bad, or indifferent. Not all teams look like this. But I think it's fun to analyze it and see it from a different perspective. And you talk about seeing a perspective.

We've got to talk about the opening of this episode. This is episode two. This is the second week that we get an inside look into the Cleveland Brown's camp. And we opened up with Corey Coleman, a first round pick. Hughes's first first round pick in 2016, a guy that a lot of people believe could be a franchise caliber receiver alongside Josh Gordon up in Cleveland. So we get this straight. Okay, so I believe this, and you can check this in your notes, and I should have had this prepared for this show. But Corey Coleman was the guy they traded away from in the Carson Wentz deal that essentially gave them

Carson Wentz. So they traded back down. They traded back down because there was no real quarterback in that draft. They felt like worthy of the first pick in the draft. And that's what Cory Coleman was to the Cleveland Browns at the time. And that's what he was valued at. So we talk about value all the time, especially with draft picks, and that was one of the big storylines headed in this draft with Baker Mayfield. We're going to talk about Baker a little bit later in this episode because he comes and, you know, kind of clarifies the fact that he does want to be a guy that gets up early and works hard. So Hughes words of advice, do pay, you know, pay out this time with Baker Mayfield. But first let's get back to Corey Coleman.

Corey Coleman opens this episode, wearing his house. He has a thousand pairs of sneakers, all these Jordans. This is making me happy. You know, I love Jordan. So this was great for me to watch. Like, how do you wear all those sneakers? Oh, no, you don't wear them. You don't wear them. This is all for show. You don't want to ruin them. He even says it. You don't want to crease up your sneakers. You want to keep them looking nice. This is beyond my world. Like I don't get that. Like, I get, like, Millie gives me crap for buying too many books. Like, there's no place to put books. There's no place to put the books. And you're right. I mean, there's, you run out a bookshelf, right? So I got a zillion books. And, but like, why would I want sneakers like I can't wear? Like, I don't understand. It's more of just, it's like collecting something. Like, you're talking about books or collecting cards or collecting pieces of art. It's like pieces of art, you know, to have these.

these shoes in your house. And that's all I'll say about the Jordans. But then Corey Coleman, we put him on the field. And the first thing Todd Haley yells at him is, you know, get some new shoes, you know, which is the irony of that, of course, is that he's falling all over the place. He looks kind of about a seat. He doesn't know how to cut. He doesn't know how to cut off the wrong foot all the time.

You're going to fall down. I'm how good of an athlete are. So you have to understand that, you know, that's something that's coached. Like, you can't cut off that foot. Like you're falling down for a reason. Like you're cutting off the wrong foot. And when you cut off the wrong foot, you just think you're playing. in the backyard. Like, I can do anything. No, this is

the national football. You can't do anything. You're cutting off the wrong foot. You're going to fall in your ass. Yeah, so athleticism can't carry, but so far, we heard that a lot in this episode that kept getting reiterated. Thank you for Greg Williams for reminding us. He kept telling everyone that. And Corey Coleman goes to Hugh Jackson's office, which is probably the peak of Cory Coleman's moment, this episode, where he says,

why am I running second team? If you don't want me to play, why won't y'all just trade me? The irony of that is the next shot is him getting in his car. He is notified by John Dorsey that he is, in fact, being traded. He waves audios to Cleveland. He is going into Buffalo for a 2027th round pick, which, as you says, is basically just getting waived. Yeah, I mean, essentially, instead of waving them, they basically traded them. They can eat the acceleration from the past due. But to me, this is really about Cory Coleman. You're talking about

really a clueless guy. I mean, the guy has no perception of who he is at all. Like, he actually thinks he's doing good. He looks slow as hell on the field. I mean, if Buffalo watched Hard Knocks last night, now they've seen Corey Coleman since then, but if they watched Hard Knocks, he's, knocks, he looks slow as crap. He's not in any kind of condition at all. Like, you play wide receiver. You got to be in the best condition of anybody on the team, because if you run a nine-rout, you run down the field, you can't go off to the field. You can't like, okay, I just sprinted now. You got to come back to the huddle and run as hard as you can the next route. Jerry Rice used to run as hard as he could down the field, maybe catch a nine-rout, never missed the next rep. Like,

he never waived anybody off. He came right back to the huddle. Great receivers never missed reps. This guy's so far out of shape. It's the joke. Like, he's out there running. He has no clue, like at some point, this is exactly what's wrong with the NFL. Corey Coleman's symbolic of a lot of problems and a lot of organizations, not just in Cleveland. The kids have no idea what's going on. Like, they're so oblivious. They've been stars at Baylor. They've been stars here.

Their first round picks. I got a billion shoes. Like, yo, asshole, you got to play. Like, this is about playing. This is about being a pro. And you're not even in any kind of shape. And you look fat. You can't run a route.

You can't catch a ball. This is because you got drafted in the first round. I mean, it's a joke. I mean, I'm sure Buffalo is sitting there saying, well, wait a minute. And what's got to happen to these guys is exactly what happened. You've got to get traded because remember this. This is the most important thing that any player has to understand. Fear does the work of reason.

If the players aren't fearful, you can't reason with them. And in Cleveland, no one's fearful. Okay, no one's fearful because she wants to make everybody happy. He's the concierge. He wants to make everybody happy. So no one's fearful. It's hard to reason with players. And I just want to talk about a little bit as far as,

So we saw Hugh Jackson in that first episode. He's talking to the trainer, and we talked about this last. We can touch on it to the trainers holding guys out. Todd Haley's getting upset because he's saying he needs his guys on the field to get them to develop, to get them in the right football playing shape. So then we come to practice, and we're in the second episode. Hughes blowing the whistle. He's yelling.

He's getting on the coaches. He's like, if you see someone slacking behind, you've got to get on their ass. We're at that time. We've got to get these guys going. This is not how we practice. We've got to be running everywhere. We can't be going through the motion. So at the same time that he's saying this, this is good.

This is what you want to hear, right? If you're watching this, you're a Brown's fan because this is, this is perfect. But it's also, it's a little contradictory to the first episode where we were saying, we got to keep these guys cool, calm, and compose and get him to the season. But it's really contradictory in terms of Corey Coleman. Corey Coleman was drafted by Hugh, right? This kid's not in shape. He doesn't work hard.

And Hugh's telling everybody on the field, this is what we do. This is how we work hard. I mean, Hugh's like talking out of both sides of his mouth. Like, if you, Hugh is responsible for the culture. Okay. I talk culture all the time on this podcast because culture really matters. in any great organization, but the culture can't come from the general manager. It can't come from the owner.

It has to come from the head coach because the head coach is the leader of the team. He sets the culture. He's the guy who tolerates all the things that matter and doesn't matter. There's a great example of this. And I just had an opportunity to do a TEDx talk. And I'm going to present this in the TEDx talk. But there's this guy named Gerald Ratner in 1991. Anyway, have ever heard of what a Ratner is? Do a Ratner?

No. Okay. So this guy, Gerald Ratner, was a British businessman, and he was speaking at the Royal Hall, Albert Hall in London, England, and he was addressing a pretty affluent crowd. The Queen actually was there that day. And he was talking about business, and he was the keynote speaker for this event. And so Ratner, in three minutes into the speech, decides to make a joke about how his products are really just crap, right? This is 1991. And so once he made that comment, the stock of his company dropped $500 million. Like it was like just, he destroyed the company with one comment. The point of the story here is the leader controls everything in the culture of the company

with all his actions. So there's mixed signals here. So what's happening in Cleveland is Hugh saying we're not working hard enough. Corey Coleman is symbolic of Hughes program. He's out of shape. He can't work. So like, really tell me what's? going on here, Hugh? Like, you're the guy in charge of the culture. You set the culture. They don't

know the culture. Like, nobody knows the culture. Leadership is about the director telling you what we have to do. And it's really clear that they don't have any direction. You know, Landry's speech last week. Corey Coleman's out of shape this week. To me, if I'm the owner of the Browns, and I'm not, and you're saying to yourself, the only person who can create the culture is you, Hugh, and you're inconsistent. You can't put it on the coaches. And attitude reflects leadership. We've heard that. You know, that hats hit to remember the Titans from Julius when he says that. But we're in that same position where Tyrod Taylor is the guy that seems to be. You're talking about a guy that's going to be the leader of this team.

Tyraud Taylor steps in to Hugh, grabs him to the side and says, You can keep a rolling camera up there, and they can catch that. All you do is show it one time in a meeting. Now, guys are conscious of it, and they build good habits of jogging off the field. Right. Now, to me, that tape's symbolic of a real problem. Okay, first of all, Hughes the head coach. Shouldn't he know that that's what he does? So let me give an example.

Every day in New England, at 8 o'clock, there's a team meeting. Okay? And at that team meeting, Belichick comes in and he sits there and he talks to the team. He just doesn't say, nice job this, nice job, that. He puts on the, we go to the tape, right to the videotape. And he'll start critiquing the practice. And tape Frazier, you were horrible on this or, you know, this guy can't do this, or, you know, this is what we're looking for, this.

because what does it do? It shows the players what he will tolerate. He's describing the culture of practice on the field through the videotape. Maybe it takes an hour one day. Maybe it takes a half hour or another day. But every day, as the head coach of that football team, he shows everybody. The assistants are in there. Everybody's in there showing them. Like for me, if you don't do that, how do they know? Tyrault Taylor, that's why everybody loves Tyraott Taylor. Because Tyrault Taylor at least can accept and understand what really great organizations are about. And when he has that moment with Hugh, Hugh goes right to the film room. He listens to those guys. And he listens to him. And it seems like a lot of the guys, honestly, for the first time, and the stuff that he's talking about in that meeting, it seems like it's starting to click. It seems like it's starting to register. And I said, you know, I was talking to you before we got on the air.

I said it felt like the first time that Hugh got above water, you know, in his own situation. It seemed like in the first episode, a lot of stuff was just kind of rolling over top of him. obviously had a lot going on, but that was the first time I saw him seem like he had actual command of a room where everyone's looking at Hugh, and Hugh's actually pointing stuff out, and people were seeing what he's talking about. Right. And not just talking, you know, in generalities. But you can't just do it once in a while. You got to do it every single day. Like, like, in New England, when they go in the room, everybody's assholes tight, including Tom Brady's. Like, including Tom Brady. Like, because he'll get caught out for throwing, look at this shitty

pass. You know, can you believe this? I mean, what the fuck is going on here, right? So, like, you just can't do it every now and then. As the leader, see, what happens is when you do that, and you don't do it consistently, you end up doing exactly what Gerald Ratner did. You make a stupid comment and you lose people. And then your company's stock goes way in the tank. And so you lose whatever culture you're trying to establish. The head coach has to be so diligent on the culture every single day. Because if he's not getting what he wants, then he's letting it happen. Remember this. Coaching is all about, either you're coaching it or allowing it to happen. And it's not the assistant coach's job.

Hugh's a head coach. He's driving the assistants. And I think part of the problem in the NFL is a lot of guys, and I mean a lot of guys, have never been around really good head coaches. Like, this is how you do it. Like Sean Payton's time in one of the best shows you could really watch. And I would encourage everybody to watch it as Parcell's final ride. It's on YouTube. It's about the Cowboys and Parcell's last year. And watch Parcells in this tape and compare it to Hugh. Now, I'm not being critical. Hugh here. Hugh's never been around the guy. that understands how to be a head coach. So he's never really had a role model. He's never had a mentor. And by not having a mentor, that becomes, you don't know what you're doing. And so Tyra-Roella comes up with this idea. He says, oh, yeah, it's a great idea. We should do it.

But you can't do it once in a while. You got to do it every day. Like in New England, when they put their phones outside that team meeting room and they come in, it's like, whoa, you have no idea where this thing could go. You have no idea where it could go. And you're all going to be held accountable because what I said earlier, fear does the work of reason. They're all fearful that they're not going to be.

So they know it's on tape and they're going to call out on it. Lombardi, real quick. We're going to get into this Antonio Calloway saga, but first let's take a quick break to get a word from one of our sponsors. This NFL season, be your GM, be a winning GM. Turn this season into a fistful of

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Back to GM Street. Let's talk about a guy that did hide some stuff from Hugh and Dorsey, and that's Antonio Callow. So we lose Corey Coleman. He gets traded to the bills. And that means Callow, the first round, or should have, first round, ends up getting drafted in the fourth round due to some off-the-field stuff. Calloway goes in the fourth round of Cleveland. He is now in the first team running with the first team wide receivers. He has an incident where he's driving with a suspended license and he gets cited for marijuana possession.

We see him at practice. And he's sort of, I know a lot of people may understand this. if you have like a teenager or something, they did something, they don't want to tell their mom, and they're just sort of quiet, and you see him that they sort of are out of it. And Dorsey's trying to talk to him. And he's like, what's going on? And Hugh's doing sort of the same thing.

He's like, all right, you got to get out of it. But it's because he's holding it in, you know, this situation he has with the suspended license. So he doesn't tell those guys in practice. It comes out in the media. We see it on the local news in Cleveland. And then they call him into their office, Hugh and John Dorsey, to talk to Calaway about the situation and ask him what exactly happened. He explains it from his side. They understand.

He says it's less than a speeding ticket is what the officer told him. They sort of hear him out, and then Hugh ends up, you know, letting him apologize to the team in front of everyone. But this whole situation, just as a GM and a head coach, I mean, obviously, this is the worst thing to get this sort of news for a guy like Callaway. But, I mean, just handling that and that whole circus around there, it just seemed like a lot was going on. First of all, I mean, he's out three o'clock in a morning. He's a rookie. So what's he doing out? And then the officer comes up the car said he smells smoke in the car.

And then the guy's saying, I mean, that's on the tape, right? I heard that on the tape. And then the kid's saying it was a roach from somebody had my car whenever down there. Well, how can that be? Like, there's an inconsistency right there. Like, and I'm not trying to be hard on the kid, but the kid has to be accountable for his actions. Like, he's never been accountable. He's been what you just described there, a talent, you know, that people think is a first-round talent.

A, he's not in any kind of shape. I mean, that's pretty obvious, just watching him, right? The kid has God-given ability, but he's cheating himself because he hasn't really worked hard enough to get himself in shape. He can fight through it. But to me, you know, I've never been a big believer in a player apologizing to the team. To me, what a player does is between the player and the coach. And that stays in the room. Like, to me, it's all shallow.

Like, okay, so then again, somebody's else going to come up here. Like, I just think to me, you know, Callaway has to be getting better shape. He has to learn how to be a pro. And there's nobody there to teach him how to be a pro. That's pretty clear. Nobody taught Corey Coleman how to be a pro. Now, maybe Jarvis Landry can teach him how to be a pro, but right now nobody can. And that was probably one of the best moments of the episode as far as keeping up with Calloway's journey.

So Calloway goes to the first preseason game. They're playing the Giants. Calloway plays every single snap of the game. That was his punishment. As a penalty. So they let him play every single snap of the game. They don't let him come out. You can see he's got his head down.

I think at one point, somewhere on the Giants, even makes a comment. They're like, boy, I know you're tired. You know what I mean? He's not even cover him down the field because he knows he can't even run down the field at one point. But then Calloway has a few big plays. He has a big touchdown, a nice little slant route that he has. Baker Mayfield hits him right on a dime, takes down for a touchdown, has this big moment.

And Todd Haley goes up to Jarvis Landry and says, you've got to be Larry Fitzgerald to this kid. You've got a mentor this kid. You can do it. That's what he needs. And you see stuff like that from a Todd Haley, that has to speak some volumes, right, to what they're trying to do as an organization.

Here's my problem with it. Okay, and this is the real issue here. When you draft Calloway, you better have a plan for Calloway. Yes. So you're John Dorsey, you turn that card in. You just can't assume everything's going to go to plan. You've got to have somebody who's watching the kid,

You've got to have somebody who's in that with that kid 24-7 because you know there's a liability here. You know this kid's going to fall off. He's giving you. Remember, past performance predicts future achievement, right? So you know that's what's going to happen. So you got to what it shows you is they have no plan for the kid. Now the kid's out to three in a morning. Look, kids will be kids, okay?

My kids have been kids too. Everybody is. But at some point, he has to take a step forward to become, this is a professional football. You can't do that. Like it doesn't make any sense. And they clearly, and they clearly don't have a plan for the point. player because Haley's over there helping Landry. Somebody has to help the guy, and it's got to come from the organization.

It can't just come from Landry. And who is that guy? I mean, we've seen the wide receivers coach. He said he's talked to Callow. He's got him to open up a little bit more about things and trying to get him to talk through some stuff. But, I mean, who do you put the onus on? Is that on Hugh to just take him under this week and say?

It's on the player development program. You've got to have a Hugh really good. So when you bring those players in in the spring, okay, and you have May, June, and really almost July, that's when you really have to educate the players. not on when to get a check in account, not on where to invest your money, not on, you know, what's going on. You got to set the tempo at that point and teach them all the things they have to do. And then you got to monitor them. And you got to make them accountable. And you got to put time restrictions on them.

Like those guys, like Calloway, Calloway should be in there. First of all, I don't know if they did a test before. But that team, Cleveland's team, does not look to be in very good physical shape. I mean, just physically, they don't look like to be in good shape. So I don't know if they did a testing. I doubt they did. I'm sure the trainer probably didn't authorize a. test for them to condition before the camp, you know.

No, eight-mile runner or anything like that. So, but for me, like Calloway, okay, we drafted in your fourth round. You're in here every day at six o'clock. Your time is six o'clock. You have no days off. You know, every day. You want to be a pro? Every day at six o'clock.

You're going to run on the treadmill. You're going to do the bubble. This is what you're going to do. And you have to load him up. You've got to load him up. You've got to give him so much volume that he either quits or he breaks through. Because patronizing him has only gotten him in trouble at Florida and now and now. So when you draft that player, okay, here we are.

You're free to go. You're here in the program. We took a risk with you. Here's how we're going to mitigate the risk. Every day you're in here at 6 o'clock. But that can't come from the general manager. That's got to come from the coach. Again, he sets the culture.

Like if I'm the GM of the Browns and Hugh's the – Hugh, we've got to have a plan for this guy. Here's the plan. Where is it? I don't see it. And we did see Hugh and Dorsey. They both say in that meeting with Calhoun. He finally explains the situation when he gets pulled over.

They say, you have our number. call us. That's what you got to do. You got to call us ASAP as soon as it happens. I mean, that seems like... The kid doesn't want any confrontation. I mean, kids don't want confrontation. They want to avoid confrontation, you know?

And so, like, and he's never going to call. He's never going to call. And so, but if he knew he had to be in at 6 o'clock in the morning, and if he's not there, his ass is gone. Like, that's a hard thing to do. And sometimes you've got to lose players to get players. Sometimes you've got to just say, okay, fine. Because when you're setting a culture,

if a guy can't meet the culture standards, then your culture's, going to fall apart, right? So if you lose a guy, if New England brings in Albert Hainsworth and he can't conform and they cut him after week eight, he couldn't fit the culture. He was either going to kill the culture or fit in. Some guys do. Randy Moss came in and fit in. He developed within the culture, right? So that's how you maintain the culture. If you don't do that, you have no chance. And when you do a Ratner, which is basically placate everybody and make a joke of things that are light, you end up, the stock goes down, you have no culture. Yeah. And let's talk

about a guy that really is trying to buy into his own culture, it seems like, and that's Baker Mayfield. We saw in the first episode, Hugh kind of got on him the first day of practice, asking him why he wasn't out with five, Tyrod Taylor, why he wasn't doing his own, you know, workout, getting there early. Baker Mayfield gets asked by the media. You know, he says that he's getting up earlier, he's staying later, and even Hugh Jackson makes a comment that he's happy for him and he's learning the process. We see Baker go into this first preseason game, and I, you know, I know we've talked about the value of Baker being the number one pick, but you can not say anything looked out of sync with what Baker Mayfield could do in a football field because the guy was in

control in the pocket. He made an unbelievable throw to Callaway rolling out to his right. That was an NFL pass. We saw him at the great pass across the middle of the field of Calaway that led to the touchdown. And when he came in for his last drive, I mean, he told the guys in the huddle, this is my last drive. We're going to do something here. I mean, you seem like he has a confidence about himself within the huddle and he doesn't seem to afraid to be the number two guy right now. No, I mean, the game's not too big for him. That was pretty clear. The game wasn't too big for him. I mean, it's not Paxton Lynch. I mean, we saw Paxton Lynch play against the Minnesota Vikings and that looks horrible right now. He wasn't the first pick overall in the

draft. But I was pleasantly surprised with Baker because he had command the game won't too big. He may plays with his feet. He understood it. And I think that the sky's the limit, see where the guy goes in week two. Now, we all know this. And we'll talk about this on Friday when we do the podcast about these young quarterbacks in preseason. They tend to look well because, you know, the coverages are so simplistic, right? So when it's cover one, as you could hear him say on the side, it's cover one, it's easy. They know he knows where he's going with the ball. They play that coverage in college.

When it's cover three, they play that coverage in college. And when it's Blitz or Cover Zero, they play that coverage in college. So those are really easy. It's when you get into this little nebulous, we're playing two trap, we're playing three cloud, all these other things that you're not sure how quickly he processes. But I thought Baker was really good with making plays with his feet and understanding game situations. Fourth and one, nobody's there.

I'm not going to try to force the ball. I move out of pocket and get the first down. Get out of bounds. Get out of bounds and get the first down. You know, so, I mean, look, you got to be encouraged if you're a Browns fan. That guy looks like a quarterback. And Tyrod, you know, we know Tyrod has limitations. Great kid, great leader, limitations.

I mean, Baker showed more to me that there's a lot of upside. And I think that's going to be the conversation. Maybe you're going to play or why. And he really couldn't ask for a better mentor as far as the way that Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod has been great for him. He's like a head coach at this point. Yeah, he's doing a great job with him. We saw Josh Cribbs, you know, for people that, you know, Josh Cribs was there.

He's like a special team advisor or whatever he is. And, you know, it was like Tyrod Taylor's, you know, might as well be an advisor for the team as well. I mean, the way that he's helping coach in the huddle and some of these guys. Somebody tweeted out yesterday. I retweeted it. I forgot who it was. They said that maybe the Browns should make Tyrod the coach and Baker the starting quarterback. Yeah, exactly.

You know, and that's what it looked like. But you got to give, look, Tyrod is doing exactly what he has to do. Now whether the team can respond and the team's got enough toughness and all those things offensively. I think Haley's personality is going to help them. There's no doubt. I mean, Haley's personality is one of confrontation. Haley's not afraid to say shit to anybody, so he'll say it, you know, and he'll be demanding. And he's going to get frustrated, you know, like he was frustrated about lay off the quarterback.

You know, one thing about Haley, he's been around a head coach. He knows what a good head coach is. He's been seeing Parsales, right? So he understands that he has a blueprint in his head what it looks like. And he doesn't mind bitching at the players. He clearly doesn't mind, you know, so he's demanding. They need that. And you mentioned that moment when I think it was Drew Stanton that took a hit from the defense.

And then, you know, Haley yells something over Greg Williams, you know, says block better. You know, if you don't want them to get hit. But see, that's a nice little back and forth. Yeah, well, it's great for the fans. But for any organization, that's not what you want. There's rules or regulations, right? So you don't lay off the quarterback. You know, don't hit the quarterback.

The quarterback's in a red jersey. It's like have some discipline. You know, discipline is about doing the things. Because if you do that on the practice field, you're going to get a passionate foul on the quarterback, rough in the passer. You know, so it all comes back to, you know, there's that line that Marcus Aurelius has that's so true. It's the secret to all victory lies in the organization of the non-obvious. That's an example of the non-obvious.

So when Cleveland gets a rough-in-the-passer penalty on the quarterback. It's all habits and tendencies. Exactly. Because he's coaching it. I mean, Williams isn't telling him to back off the quarterback. He's coaching it because Williams is my defense. You know, everybody, one thing that's pretty clear in Cleveland, everybody's an independent contractor. The special teams coach, Josh Chris, everybody's an independent contractor.

the problem because when you've got a bunch of independent contractors, nobody really is on the same page with the culture. And I want to ask you about that situation. So we were watching the Giants game and we're going to halftime and Greg Williams is losing his mind at his defense. I mean, he's saying, I'm going to kill him at halftime. We see the clock hit zero. He takes him in at half. He takes the defense over to their own side and he's just, you know, blessing them out, you know, telling them everything that they need to hear, you know, going after him, basically. And then you see Baker Mayfield. I don't know if you remember this. He was like standing behind the whiteboard and he's watching the defense. He's watching the defense. He's

watching Greg Williams address the defense because I think, you know, Hugh's doing this thing over here where he's like, all right, guys, you know, everything's going all right. But then Greg Williams is over here just blessing out this team. So I think Baker was more enticed by the idea of just getting yelled at because we're not playing great. You know what I mean? Which I think that goes to your point about independent contract. Everyone's doing their own thing. There's no doubt. You got to, look, the coaches have to coach and when they have to, but the message has to come from the head coach. I mean, like, I'll give you another perfect example about these details. Okay. So when Haley and the assistant quarterback,

coach. I think Zampi it was. He didn't have his phone with him this time. When he goes into the car and they say, can we get the backup quarterback some reps in the game, right? Talk about rowback. Roeback. That never. That should like, no. And he was like, all right, that's fine. Yeah, that's good. Like, there is a perfect example

of the organization of the non-obvious, okay? Like, do you think that happens in New England? Like, in New England, here's how this goes, okay? There's a game on Thursday night, the game tomorrow. They're playing the Eagles, okay? today at probably 2 o'clock, Belichick has a staff meeting. And he tells Josh McDaniels, okay, I want Brady to play 15 plays, I want Hoyer to play this, I want Danny Effling to pay that.

Okay, offensive line, look, I've seen enough of this guy. I don't want him in there anymore. Look, when we take Brady out, I want to take it. It's all done by plan. There's nothing left a chance because he's watched all the practice tapes. He's seen everything that's going on. He knows who he wants to see. He also is controlling who he wants to see the players against.

right? Because he's thinking in his head, okay, if this guy's any good, I need to see him against good players. So, like, let's get Bentley up with the first team so we can watch him play against the good players. So maybe we're wrong with this evaluation because he looks good against shitty players. Maybe he'll look good against good players. Like, to me, that's what I'm

talking about. Like, that's what head coaches do. They do that. They don't, like, assistants don't control the reps or game reps of the players. That comes from the head coach. And when it does, again, you can't put fear in the player. Like, we'll get him in the game. We're going to make you happy. like no I don't want to see him out of there I don't want to see his ass like I don't need to see him

I need to see this player play you know I need to see that player play and when you do when you got that detail now you got a chance and I want to talk about a guy that we saw him hit this weird lull in the episode and that's David Injoku the tight end first he does the whole purple gloves you know he asked everyone that was another example of uh that you talk about I think the huge biggest problem is just trying he wants to please everybody so in jok's a pleaser he's a pleaser and there's not the wrong with that but here's a huge he's a pleaser and there's not the wrong with that And here's so fans understand this. Okay, guys that please the players, they never get...

Players coaches. They never get the locker room against them, okay? Guys that don't like, if you ask players, okay, Greg Ciano at Tampa or Hugh Jackson in Cleveland, well, Greg Ciano's like a villain. He's demanded too much from the players. You know, he's not a player's coach, right? Whereas Hugh is, well, who can help you win more? Like, who would be better to help you win?

And so when you cater to the players, you create this PR thing. where you're never going to get the locker room is going to be against you because they all like you. You know, they all like you. But you got no chance to win, but they all like you. And so like, where are you? You're like nowhere, right? It's like you can't like, when I hear players coach,

I want to go crazy. Like I want to go absolutely. Like Aaron Rogers the other day was ripping the team and he was doing it like a coach because he understands the level it takes to get to the next level. And when you're a player's coach and you're not demand them,

like Parcellarrow. else when he wakes up in the morning and he was the head coach or Belichick or any of these Joe get any they don't mind confrontation like confrontation is the key like I'm going to confront you on something like I'm not going to be passive aggressive with I'm going to confront it and that's the only way the team's going to get better yeah and this happened with Injoku so we go into practice he you know tells everyone that he has purple gloves they're obviously pink uh Hugh Jackson says you know they're some other paisley or whatever what I you know just walk away I'm good thumbs up But Anjoku drops like 15 passes in a row.

Looks like he'd never caught a football before. And then they make him go to the jug machine. He catches 30 balls. He looks pretty good. Make him go to the jug machine. He catches 30 balls. Dorsey's there watching him. Here's the culture, right?

If you have a culture about we're going to get better every single day, we're coming there to get better every day. You don't have to tell Julian Edelman to go to the jugs machine. You don't have to tell Danny Amidola to go to the jug machine. I mean, I just remember JJ Watt a few years ago when he was on the Texans were on hard-knocks. He would go to the jug machine at night. I mean, obviously he was doing it for the cameras. but, I mean, he was just standing there catching 100 balls by himself. Because he's a defensive end.

He might play tight end and he needed to get his hands ready. Yeah, there you go. And so, like, if your job, what's the receiver's main job? Catch the ball, run with it after the catch. I mean, if you're not working on your craft, that would be like Tiger Woods not hitting a driver. Like Tiger Woods is, you know, we saw him this weekend. You know, he still goes to the driving range. Nobody has to tell Tiger you got to go hit a driver.

Like at some point, you have to understand, like, this is my profession. I got to get better at it. Like, and, you know, just because, just because Dorsey's watching, that's why you do it, or we got to catch 30? Like, to me, there's so many details that are just, that are so far different than the details in the teams that win, whether it's Seattle who's won a Super Bowl, whether it's New England who's won a Super Bowl, whether it's Philadelphia, whatever they are, the details, you're so far apart. And that's the gap. You know, it's funny. When I was in Philly, when I was in Philly and Ray Rhodes was the head coach, I often wondered how we could do. how we were winning because we had really good coordinators.

We had Gruden was a coordinator, Thomas was a coordinator. And when you add the staff together, that was a really good staff. So you could win some games that way. But the long run, if the head coach isn't handling all the details, even no matter how good the coordinators are, you can't win. And it is very weird. So then Joku goes into the game, they work him out. He does his 30 catches.

He has two touchdown catches in the game. He has a nice player where he comes back and helps Baker Mayfield out across the middle of the field in the end zone, gets a nice catch. And then we see Callow, the same thing they run him. He seems to get in shape throughout the game. A little better, yeah. Do you think they condition after practice? Well, I'm just saying these are the two times that these guys have been pressed, right?

You know, we've seen them pull back, which is what Haley was going against. So they both get pressed. And Joku gets pressed, hey, go work on your hands. We see Calloway gets pressed. Hey, you're going to have to play the whole game because this is your punishment. And both guys get better. They seem to elevate themselves, right? So doesn't that send a message to Hugh and to Dorsey and to Haley and all these guys?

like, hey, we can push these guys a little bit more. I think Haley wants to push him. I think there's no doubt. I think if Haley had his chance to really run the offense, I think they would be pushing him. I think Haley would condition the team. I mean, Haley kept saying that through the thing. That's why, for me, Haley kept saying we got to get in shape, we got to get in shape. Because if you're not running hills, if you're not in shape, like one thing about training camp, training camp doesn't get you in shape.

You still have to do your conditioning, right? And so for Callaway to be the best player he has to be, he has to be in shape. Like, your receivers have to be in unique shape. Your corners have to be in unique shape, right? You've got to be because, look, the fourth quarter, everybody's tired. What I saw with Cleveland, everybody's excited, right? Everybody's, they do really. They're going to be about a 45, 50-minute team, right?

Because once the last 10 minutes of the game, they may not be in shape to do it. That's when you really have to have mental toughness. That's what Haley was talking about. I'm not talking about it. I'm not being critical of it. Haley was, which is allowing me to be critical of it because he's in the building. I want to talk about one less guy before we're going to move on and talk about the Jalen Ramsey comments that he made about some of these quarterbacks. But I want to ask you about Miles Garrett, the number one pick from last year, obviously.

And we saw Willie last week tell him, you know, you got all the raw talent in the world. We saw in this episode, you know, he's writing poetry and he made a nice comment. He was like, before I was the man that loved to hit people, I was the boy who loved to write things. And you see this other side of him and you see this very, you know, just very laid back in a guy that's very cerebral and, you know, was thinking through things and loves poetry. And there's so many qualities he's talking about Muhammad Ali. There's so many good qualities that you see in him, but it doesn't seem like he has jumped into a role where he is the leader of the defense quite. Yeah, Greg Williams is obviously the one that's leading these guys on a solo mission. Is there a way if you're Greg Williams or Dorsey or Hugh or one of these guys and say, this guy is a franchise type player. We need to get him in a position to lead these men. I think he is more of a guy who's going to be a leader by example on the field. I think he's got a lot of pride in his work. I think he's important. He's a smart kid. He likes to do things with, you know, he likes to do other things than football. football. He looks like he's in good shape. I think you're going to get leadership from him by his actions on the field. I'm not sure the leadership of that defense has been declared yet. Maybe it's

going to be, I think it's Kirksey, the linebacker, right? So it's got it probably going to be him. We've seen Nassib. He's been sort of a character. He's talked a lot. Yeah, but Nassum's not good enough to be the leader of the team. I mean, I think it's going to have to be Kirksey. It's not going to be Jamie Collins because Jamie Collins doesn't really say much to anybody. So, you know, and it's going to be Michael Kendricks? I doubt that. So I I think it's going to have to come from Kirksey, which I think it will come because he has a lot of it. And that's where they'll get that a little bit. But the personality has to come from that.

I mean, you've got to be able to generate that through what you do on the field. Garrett obviously is a really good player, and he's going to play good. And I think that's what they just need. And how encouraging is that if you are a Browns fan to see a guy that you did take number one? We obviously brought up the Coleman trading back, not getting wins. But for the next year, for you to get a guy like Miles Garrett, I mean, he does fit the profile of a number one. I mean, like Mario Williams. I mean, he's one of those guys. He is that type of talent.

I think to me, when you draft him, now you've got to set up your team so that, like, let's take some of these teams in the league, you know, like when you have a player like Garrett that can rush the passer, people think, well, now you build a defense. To me, I would have picked Chubb. You know, I mean, there's a lot of things I would have added to their defense. But that being said, really the key for Garrett is their offense because Garrett will never be the great player if they're always playing from behind. So to me, again, as an executive or as the head coach of the team, and you got a guy like Garrett that can really rush the passer, you build your defense a certain way. Now your offense has to really score. You got to be able to play from in front. And we saw tempo. They were pushing they got to play from in front. Like I watched Miami on tape. We talked about last week who

would have the first pick in the draft and we can update that at the end of this episode. But you know, like Miami, I watched them. Miami looks like about a 45-minute team right now. I mean, if they can play from in front, okay, great. But if they get behind their defense doesn't look physical enough. They don't look like they're able to do that. So you have to set up your team on how it's going to win. You know, you're a basketball guy. You see that all the time in basketball. We don't talk about that enough in football. You know, that's where I think the not having a true head coach really affects the NFL. Because if you set up your team, like if you're sitting in his office saying, look, we got really good rushers, we got good speed, you know,

if we get into a drag-out war with these teams and they wear us down on defense and we play 32 minutes, we probably aren't going to win. I mean, credit the Eagles last year. I mean, when they had to play 30 minutes of defense, they lost. When they had to play 26 minutes of defense, they won. And that's how they won. They weren't great on defense because those that last six minutes, four minutes that they didn't play. That was the difference in their team.

They still had the motor to get that passports going. But if they played 30, like they did against Kansas City or like they did against other teams, the Giants almost got into 30. I mean, they gave up yards. Seahawks. The Seahawks, right? When they played 30, they weren't. it's good. So you've got to play the style that fits your team. That's what I, right now, there's just a collection of players in Cleveland. There's not a style that matches one another.

And we'll see if they're able to figure this thing out and try to find some sort of cohesive unit over these next few weeks. It's fun talking about this team. It really is. And I thought the best part of the episode was the last part. You know which part I'm talking about, Trey Fraser? Of course. When Hugh, when Hugh has his big moment, when he gets his congratulations, we should say that Browns did go undefeated last preseason, but it's good for these guys to get a win. No, it's great. What I love is at the end when he's on the field, and I think they got Nathan Zagaris is the team's television guy, nice guy, you know, doesn't, you know, really, and he comes up to him and it just looks so much better. Oh, yeah. Oh my God. You know, that looks so much better.

Classic line. You know what I call those guys? What's that? I call those Bundy guys. You know who Bundy is? Like Muhammad Ali Bundini, Bundini Brown. Bundini Brown. They're Bundini guys. They're Bundini guys. They're Bundini guys. They're just there to tell you everything's great. That's all they do. They're just there to tell you everything's great. Like, that's his job is to come out. Man, look so much better last year. I bet he said that exact quote after game one to Hugh last year.

Like, as an organization, get rid of all the Bundini guys. Get them out. Just throw them out the bill. I don't want to hear it. Like, I don't want to hear how great it looks, how much different it looks from last year. Because it's all lies. Because within one second. No, yes, man.

Get him out of the building. Like, oh, yeah, it looks so much better than last year. Really? Tell me about last year's game. Did you remember last year's getting? Like, what happened? I mean, New York didn't play half their guys. Like, how does it look so much better?

Tell me, really. How? We haven't played anybody. It's like a preseason game. You got to remember you were undefeated last year, and I think that was not brought up. Bundini guys. Get rid of them. They're not going to help you at all.

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That's promo code T-H-E-R-I-N-G-E-R. All right, Lombardi, let's talk about a guy who's the opposite of a Bundini guy, and that's Jalen Ramsey. He is not afraid to tell people how he feels about certain players. and he is obviously not afraid of the media attention that he gets from it. I went on Vancouver radio yesterday, and they were asking me if Jalen Ramsey would distract the rest of the Jaguars. I don't think Saxonville is anything to worry about.

They know who they are. They buy into Jalen Ramsey. They like having him be in the face. But he actually went into a GQ interview with Clay Skipper, and he had a lot of things to say about a lot of quarterbacks. First off, Lamar Jackson, 32nd pick, he does say that he thinks he's going to do a pretty good job. And he likes running quarterbacks and likes the way he runs. the read option. So that's good news that Joe and Ramsey believes in Lamar Jackson,

sort of like what we said. He does not believe it's Super Bowl winning quarterback. Joe Flacco, he says, and I quote, Flacco sucks. I played him two years in a row. He sucks. You know, they beat him. They beat them two years in a row. I mean, look, he's not, you know, and I would think if you're being real honest, Flacko hasn't played very well last two years. So, you know, look, the guy gave his opinion. You can't argue with it. Now, maybe Flacco will be better this year. But, you know, I'm sure Jacksonville, I'm sure Tom and Doug Marone, Tom Coughlin, or over there trying to, you know, like this isn't really what they want to do. Because remember this, Tate Fraser.

Jacksonville's really good. And last year they caught a lot of people really by surprise. Okay, their defense is really good. They're going to have to repeat. The schedule's going to be like. Yeah, they're not sneaking up on it. You know, I mean, Houston's way better. I mean, Houston's way better.

You watch Houston on tape. Their defense destroyed Kansas City up front in the first preseason game. I mean, Patrick Mahomes really couldn't do anything because they couldn't block. So Houston's going to be good on offense. They're going to be good on defense. They're going to be better. I watched Indianapolis way better in the offensive line. I don't know how good they're going to be on defense,

but they're way better in the offensive line. Nelson's already making a difference. Right. And luck's back, which is, you know, the games. Got the mustache and everything. Everything. The porn star from 1970, he's back, right? So that looks good.

It looks like Tom Selleck. Yeah. And then, of course, you know, Tennessee was a playoff team last year. So the competition, plus you're playing a first-place schedule. So, I mean, and I think how you handle success as a young team is going to be really Doug Marone's biggest challenge. He's going to have to rely on. his skill as a head coach, because I think Doug is a head coach, of how he's going to keep these guys focused on the moment and not get distracted by some of the stuff like what's going on with Ramsey.

And we'll give the quotes for the other guys you just brought up in the AFC South. We got Deshawn Watson. Ramsey says, and I quote, he will be the league MVP in a couple years. And then when talking about Andrew Luck, and I quote, I don't think he's really that good. Wow. You know, and it's funny because there's a lot of people in the league that know Andrew Luck is good, but he also takes a lot of chances with the football. I mean, he throws... He and James more so, but they do take a lot of chances and they have a lot of turnovers. And if they can cut down on what he's trying to do, then I would disagree.

But I could understand Ramsey saying that to a degree because, you know, luck was supposed to be John Elway. You know, I mean, I remember I was at NFL Network and certain guys, I said he's going to be the next John Elway, which is, I'm not saying he's not a good player, but I don't think he's quite to Elway's level. And I think Andrew would say the same thing. I think Andrew's got to maximize his intellectual capacity. in terms of where he is at their offensive line,

where he is at the line of scrimmage to get him in the right play and not take as many chances. And I agree with him on Watson. I think Watson's going to be the superstar of the league. And I think he will be as well. Although it wasn't good enough for Cleveland, though. Don't bring that up. That hurts.

We should say this. Before we get out of here, you brought up trying to figure out who will be the last team in the league this year. I mean, a lot of things have happened. We've seen some teams in the preseason. So, you know, you watch these teams. I thought Denver was really bad. Denver looked like they end practice.

I think Denver's going to be better on defense, but they didn't look like they're proud. I mean, Minnesota, look, when you play Mike Zimmer's everything you want to coach, right? He's got his team's culture's good. They come out. Their pad level's good. You were talking about trying to find head coaches in the NFL currently. There's one right there is one. There's one right there.

And it took a long time for him to get that job. Been educated by Parcells. I mean, he understands what it takes. His pad level was good, you know. And, I mean, they just, I mean, they just railroaded Denver. I mean, Denver looked like they had in practice. Denver looked like they were going through a lot of walkers. They looked like a team.

that's on a mission. They bought into the Kirk Cousins decision. And if you kept up with those guys during the offseason with Diggs and all, I mean, they are all in. They're all in. And they looked well and they looked like they've been practicing hard. Yes, together. They're working out together. So, you know, at Denver didn't look very good at week one. I thought Buffalo looked good. You were people were talking about Buffalo not being very good. I thought Buffalo. Miami, as I talked about, if Tanna Hills can stay healthy, that's to me. That's still my favorite right there. But after the first week, there really wasn't anybody. The other team that I'm going to be interested to see. Not that I think they're going to have the first pick in their job is Washington. I think Washington's really not very good, and I think they're on discipline, and I think that's going to cost them in the end. Do you think that Jay Gruden ends up with John Gruden out in Oakland? I don't know. I think that's going to be a fascinating thing if they don't make the playoffs. I think the NFC East is so overrated. You know, everybody remembers the days of Buddy Ryan and Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs.

Well, they got the Super Bowl champs now. Yeah, but they're good. You know, the Giants, I thought the Giants were going to be a little bit better. Now, I don't know how good they're going to be on defense because they didn't play their guys, so it's hard to tell. But after week one, you know, I still think Miami has a long way to go. I really do. And I think it's going to come down that whether Tannhill stays. If Tannhill doesn't stay healthy, and you could say that for a lot of teams,

because the one thing after week one's preseason games, a lot of bad backup quarterbacks. A lot of bad backup. I mean, look, you know, the Giants don't have a backup quarterback. Denver doesn't have a backup quarterback right now. Maybe Chad Kelly, it may not be, but it isn't going to be Paxton Lynch. There's a lot of teams that need backup quarterbacks. And what does that do for a market for the team like the Coles that has Jacoby on their roster? They're not going to trade them because they, the UD, too.

I mean, New England doesn't have bad. I mean, Brian Hoyer went in there and didn't play, like lights out. I mean, look, New England didn't look very good in the week one. I mean, New England played a lot of their starters on defense, and Washington played their backups and got up to a 17-0-0-0 lead. Now, you know, they couldn't keep the lead, but that's, forget the score. You know, it's how your team looks. And I think, to me, they got a long way to go into England on defense. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on in the league.

We'll keep up with all of it. Obviously, next week, we will knock in on episode three of Hard Knocks. We will be back this Friday to talk about just some Talk about the rookie quarterbacks. We're going to talk about the 2018 class. These five quarterbacks compare them back to the 2012 class of weed and RG3 luck, all those guys, and just sort of do, hey, remember, it's just the preseason.

Don't freak out. Sam Darnold is not the second coming. I remember reading the tweet. Somebody said, you can't evaluate quarterbacks in the first day and then the next tweet was, hey, Sam Donald should be the start quarterback of the Jets. I love it. Welcome to the preseason, folks.

This has been another edition of GM Street, part of the Ringer Podcast Network. Thank you, Michael, and Buddy. Thank you, Tate. Thanks again to FanDuel this NFL season. FanDuel has more ways to win than ever before, like the free weekly pick-home contest or FanDuel's free NFL Survivor League. Pick one team every week of the season for a chance at the $250,000 prize.

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