The Ringer NFL Show - Urban Meyer News, the Rams Roller Coaster, and Your Mailbag Questions

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Nora breaks down the recent news of the Urban Meyer firing. Then she is joined by Kaelen Jones to discuss the highs and lows of the 2021 Rams, make predictions about how their season might end, and answer some of your wildest mailbag questions. Hosts: Nora Princiotti Guest: Kaelen Jones Producer: Devon Manze Additional Production Supervision: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Mallory Rubin. And I'm Van Laithen. Check out the Ringerverse podcast from The Ringer for all things, superhero movies, nerd culture, and fandom entertainment. We have instant reviews and fun takes on all the latest news and more, available now on Spotify.

Hello, and welcome to The Ringer NFL show. I'm Nora Prenciotti. We have a great episode coming up with Kalin Jones focusing on the Los Angeles Rams and what the ceiling is for that team as we head into the playoffs. However, Kaelin and I recorded that episode on Wednesday afternoon before the news broke Wednesday evening late that Urban Meyer had been fired as coach of the Jaguars. This obviously is something that felt like it was a long time coming.

I think it's fair to say that Meyer's tenure as Jags coach was one of the most disastrous short-lived coaching tenures in sports history, certainly NFL history. I thought that I would go through just some of the missteps. It's hard to believe that I'm not actually sure that this is a comprehensive list, but it is literally true that Myers' tenure as Jags coach was a disaster from his first day on the job. Because he started, he hired Chris Doyle as the team's director of sports performance, despite credible allegations that Doyle routinely made racist and belittling comments to players while he was at Iowa. Doyle had to resign after a lot of backlash. He signed to Tim Tebow, who did not make the team.

He was fined $100,000, and the Jaguars were fined $200,000 for violating contact rules in the offseason. The Jags are also going to be without two OTA sessions this year as a result of that. He openly stated his confusion and displeasure with the NFL free agency process and missed out on identified top targets like Dalvin Tomlinson, despite having the most money to spend in free agency. He drafted a running back in the first round, despite having James Robinson on the roster, openly stated to the media that he would have preferred to draft Cadarius Tony with the pick that was used on Travis Etienne.

He told members of the media that players were cut due to vaccine status, which resulted in an NFLPA investigation. He held an open competition at quarterback between Gardner, Minshu, and Trevor Lawrence, and then traded Minchu, who had gotten half the first team reps that could have gone to the future franchise quarterback Lawrence. He was blown out by the Texans. He told Vic Fangio that coaching in the NFL is like, quote, playing Alabama every week.

He lost in week four and then famously did not travel home with the team from Cincinnati, only to have a video emerge online of Meyer in a bar with a woman other than his wife. He was laughed at by players in the facility when he tried to defend his action. to them and explain them, according to Mike Silver. He called his coach's losers and asked them to defend their resumes, even though he had hired them. He traded a former top 10 pick, C.J. Henderson, for tight end Dan Arnold. He held a press conference where he discussed the expanded role for safety Andre

Cisco, who had received zero snaps in the previous game. According to NFL reporter Aaron Wilson, he told his coaching staff that he had a better coaching staff at Bowling Green. Again, these were the people that Meyer himself had hired. He benched James Robinson twice for fumbles and explained it various times as the result of injury or the result of running backs coach Bernie Parmally's rotation. He had an heated argument with Marvin Jones

who left the building as a result. He had a very awkward and very petty-looking blow-off handshake with Mike Frabble after losing Tim the Titans. He was accused by former kicker Josh Lambo of kicking Lambo during a practice and telling him, quote, Hey, dipshit, make your fucking kicks. he's 2 and 11

with an offense that turns the ball over on 17.4% of drives and is by a significant margin the worst in the NFL and he got fired before finishing his first season despite a lot of fanfare

and a lot of effort on the part of Jaguars ownership to get him in the first place. So all and all, not a great go of things for Meyer. I think there's not a lot of overarching takeaways or lessons

that we can get from this other than the Urban Meyer Jacksonville Jaguars chapter was an utter disaster, and the only thing the Jaggs should be hoping for is that this didn't set Trevor Lawrence back too significantly. I want to quote a great piece that my wonderful colleague, Kevin Clark, had written actually before Meyer got fired, but identified that we'd sort of reached the end of the road,

and it seemed kind of prescient that Kevin wrote that, and then Meyer was indeed fired, I think, within 24 hours of that piece going up, But Kevin wrote, don't draw any broad conclusions about Myers' failure. His time in Jacksonville is not a referendum on college coaches at the NFL level. It makes no great statement about how players respond to coaches. There's no fatal flaw in college coaches. There's not a fatal flaw in the Jaguars franchise. There's just a fatal flaw in hiring a guy who doesn't want to be there.

The only lesson is not to hire Urban Meyer when he's not feeling it. I believe the Jaguars want to win. They just pitch the wrong guy. It's time to rectify that. So obviously, we will see. what happens next in terms of who is going to get to take over and try to work with Trevor Lawrence and pick up the pieces a little bit. Daryl Bell is the interim head coach because of new hiring rules. The Jaguars will be able to do some interviewing before the end of the season. So perhaps there's a tiny silver lining there.

I think there have been some questions about, you know, why now, why not wait until the end of the season? And I think there's a pretty clear answer to that, which is you want to tell people in your building that you're not allowed to kick people, which seems like something you learn in preschool, but apparently has to be something that we learn in the NFL from time to time as well. So anyway, we're going to get to Kalin, but that kind of closes the book on the Urban Meyer experiment.

I think the blessing is that it did not go on any longer than it did, and we will see where the Jaguars go from here. Mallory Rubin is out this afternoon. So I am here with Kaylin Jones. Kalyn, how are you? What's happening? I'm doing pretty good. How are you?

I'm doing pretty well. Thank you for asking. Does Mallory ask? I wonder if Mallory asked that. We're going to have to press her on that when she gets back. Just kidding. We miss Mel, of course. But, Kalin, we are so happy to have you here because we are talking about the Rams.

And correct me if I'm wrong, you have spent a significant amount of time. around the Los Angeles Rams of Los Angeles so far in this 2021 NFL season. Yeah, relatively speaking, yes. Not as much as our friend Jordan Roderick, who is like the elite of the elite covering the team. But yeah, she rules. Covering the Rams.

She's the best. I love an early Jordan shout out. I heard that did you meet, did you like run into Jordan in an elevator recently or was that another person that I know? I think that was another person. Was it Brooke Pryor? I ran into the book prior.

This is great. This is great audio. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay.

But I'm jealous of this because you're out there. You're hanging out with teams. You're running into people in elevators. And you've gotten to sort of get the pulse of both the Rams and the Chargers, I think, a little bit this season. So I'm very excited to benefit from your infinite wisdom. As the Rams have been kind of, well, you know. Come on. You come on the Thursday pod.

We're much nicer than, like, you got to deal with Ben. You got to deal with Stephen. They're always saying stuff. We're very nice here. But I think the Rams have been one of the most interesting teams this season, just because there's kind of, there's been highs, there's been lows. And now after the win against Arizona, it seems like the right time to sort of take their pulse as a contender. I should say off the top before we dive in a little bit,

the Rams are one of several teams in the NFL currently in the league's intensive COVID protocols. They're dealing with an outbreak. There are at least 16 players on the COVID list there, including several starters, players like O'Dell Beckham Jr., Sebastian Joseph Day, Jordan Fuller, Rob Havenstein, Jalen Ramsey, Daryl Henderson, Dante Dion. So a significant portion of that team. just a couple other teams around the league who are dealing with

the most significant COVID outbreaks that we've seen so far this season the league happens to be holding annual meetings this week and I think is discussing some potential changes to protocols right now there's absolutely nothing to indicate that games could be shifted. They made that pretty clear right off the bat

in establishing the protocols for this season that the bar was going to be just insanely high to move a game. that situation is just so in flux that I don't think that we're really going to be able to weigh it super heavily when we talk about kind of where the Rams ranked in the NFC and what they have the potential to do going forward into the playoffs. But at least acknowledging not all is looking great there. Hopefully everybody gets healthy and it'll take as little time as possible.

But that's definitely an ongoing situation to monitor. but Kaelin, I want to start by asking you how you felt about the win over Arizona and what it sort of told you about where the Rams are at this point in the season.

I was kind of surprised especially when the news came out that Jail and Ramsey was going to end up missing the game because of COVID protocols and then Tyler Higbee, they're tied in as well. I was surprised that how dominant really through the first

three quarters that they looked. And I think what it says about them is that, you know, the Rams are probably the real team out of the NFC West that is, you know, for other top NFC contenders that they should be worried about. You know, when you look at the Rams in comparison to where the Cardinals are, and I know they just lost the Andre Hopkins going down this stretch for the remainder of the regular season. But, you know, regardless, when you look at the star power that the Rams present for them,

what they're able to, you know, do at a full potential when their team is fully healthy, I think that, you know, the Rams present a much bigger problem than the Cardinals, who I think are still, I think are a valid contender because of, you know, one, Kyler Murray and then two, the veteranship that they have on their team and the ability to, you know, beat teams in different ways. I think that's really important down the stretch being multifaceted. But, you know, the star power and the potential of the Rams, I think was really on display. especially when you look at what Aaron Donald can do,

him being a game record on his own, speaks for itself. And then what the offense can do in addition to what the defense can do, they're the highest potential team out of the NFC was. On Aaron Donald, has there, I remember last season in particular, you'd hear Staley talk a lot about trying to scheme single team opportunities up for him.

And one of the things that I thought was most interesting, about the Cardinals game was it seemed like, not that they weren't paying attention to him. Obviously, Aaron Donald gets a ton of attention in every game, but it just seemed like a lot of this season, he is every opposing offensive coordinator's number one priority to shut down. And sometimes that's double, triple teams just all of the time. And they come out and on Kyler Murray's very first snap,

he's in the backfield. And that seemed like one of the most sort of important shifts that was visible in that game, particularly because they were undermanned in the secondary. And it seemed like they were able to get more consistent pressure with their front in a way that maybe they haven't been able to consistently over the course of the season. Is that something, you know, when you've been around them, that's been kind of an ongoing challenge? I think so in a way because they added Von Mill in the middle. of the season. And so I think, you know, the onboarding process, you know, getting him acclimated to the system and then, you know, the Rams again, like getting healthy within their secondary and then

up front as well, you know, it's taking some time. But I think this is kind of not only a byproduct of getting Von Miller because, you know, the whole purpose, I think, of getting Von Miller was, you know, to be able to penetrate against, you know, these passing offenses. You look at, you know, outside the 49ers who, Garoppola's been playing pretty well. But, you know, you're going up against Russell Wilson, Kyle and Murray two times a year, you need a way to either contain these scrambling quarterbacks or get guys who can generate pressure on their own

while still having people in coverage in case they break off and run. And I think, you know, when I was watching back, you know, the game over, I think Von Miller did have sort of an impact.

I think the bigger issue for the Cardinals was that, you know, they had a backup interior alignment in there. And Mr. Harlow, I don't want to call him Jack. I forget his first name. Might be Sean. But, you know,

He was really struggling with Aaron Donald. Yeah. He was really struggling with them inside. And so I think, you know, this is really kind of a culmination of what the Rams want to be. They want to be able to get pressure without having the blitz and relying on their secondary, which played pretty well, even without Jay and Ramsey, I think Darius Williams and David Long, Jr. in particular, who struggled this year, those two having big games, I think really made the difference in helping, you know, Aaron Donald have his big performance.

It sort of seems like it's been this up and down season for them. They started so hot and then had a period where they struggled. And then, I mean, like you, I was not expecting them to win that game. Do you think that it really is those sort of like big ebbs and flows? Or is there maybe just a little bit more variance baked into a team that is really star-laden, like is top-heavy in a way? And then also is quarterbacked by Matt Stafford, who has a lot of talent and ability, but is not necessarily like even Steven. And, you know, you start to look at

their four losses. They've had two or more turnovers in each one of those games. They've won two in a row now. They haven't committed a turnover in those games. And so I wonder what your perspective is on kind of if they've had these like big, okay, the Rams are totally clicking and doing it. Oh, now they're struggling. Oh, now they're back. Or is it kind of? Is it kind of? of just that this, this is a team that can beat anyone on any given day, but is also prone to having some off days? I think it's more the latter because, like you said, Stafford ebbs and flows, and you look at the course of his career stats, you know, November is usually his worst month, and that's what came to fruition this year. I think the other piece of it is that, you know,

without Robert Woods within that offense, you know, Stafford had seven months to get, you know, used to the offense, getting used to having, you know, Robert Woods within that lineup. And then you lose him on top of that. Now you have Odell Beckham, who's, you know, being added into the mix. Now he has to be accounted for. I think, you know, Stafford, in most of the pressures that I've been present for, he's really hammered home like the point of chemistry and timing and how long it takes to really develop that.

And I think that's why, you know, over the past month, when they did lose Robert Wood, you saw them drop off. You know, the EP numbers had them going from first to the first nine weeks when they had Robert Woods, dropping on the 23rd over the four or five or three or four weeks when he was out of the lineup. And so for them to get back to what they used to be, I think it took, you know, three, four weeks. But I think Sean McVeigh mentioned it after the victory. That was probably the best game that Matthew Stafford against Cardinals had as a Los Angeles ram to this point. And I think it came down to chemistry.

when you look at what he was able to do in finding, you know, whether it was O'Dell Beckham over the middle on those overrouts. He did a really good job connected with Van Jefferson downfield and then always finding Cooper Cup, who seems to always be open. I think it really comes down to the chemistry that they have offensively.

And that's really, you know, they made the trade because they feel, you know, Matthew Stafford is the difference between them losing to the Packers on the road in the divisional matchup and potentially reaching a Super Bowl. And I think it really does come down to how well he plays. When you look at the career numbers, again, November is the down month, usually December,

January starts to kick things back on. So we'll see whether or not, you know, we can get multiple weeks of good Stafford. I think it could happen just because, again, the star power that they have offensively, but it's going to be really interesting to see moving forward if Stafford can continue to play at the high level that he's played at. Football wouldn't be the game we know and love without a few. prizes. And unfortunately for the Rams, one of the surprises of this season was the fact that they lost receiver Robert Woods. But, Kaelin, what I'm curious about, as you just explained

so well, how they've done sort of improving Matt Staubbard's chemistry with the rest of the receiving core and getting contributions across the board to replace the production that they would normally get from Woods. How critical is it to that effort that Cooper Cup is just having the remarkable year that he is having. It can't be overstated how important he is to that lineup. He leads the league in receiving, leads to league in touchdowns. He just is really a

depth, that finding space. And I think for a new quarterback like Matthew Stafford, it's really important to have someone who you can trust kind of as a security blanket who's always on the same page as you to find when you really need a big gain or to get a first down.

So he's been really important to their success just as a crucial, you know, reliable target, you know, as a receiver. Is there anything you've noticed or heard from people there about why they have clicked so well? So this is the thing I've heard. It's like he has the really, you know, it's kind of cookie cutter. But like they talk about hard and intensely, you know, he practices. Cooper Cup is someone who, you know, he went viral for spitting back that, you know, answering why he got open, you know, speaking like he's an NFL head coach. And he has the mind of a quarterback.

And I think that really helps when you're, again, when you're talking about chemistry and understanding nuances of route running, that's why he's been able to get open so frequently. And it's just, he's on a different level when you talk about mentality and willingness to put in the work to, you know, have that payoff on Sundays and Mondays. Since we're talking about all things surprisingly great, we've got to shout out the good neighbors at State Farm for offering surprisingly great rates. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. All right. So kind of similar to what we were just talking about. with Cup. What's it been like since Odell's gotten there and just seeing the first weeks of him with Stafford, him in L.A. Obviously, he's on the COVID list right now. But what was it like sort of watching up close that get started? Yeah, I popped in a few times, you know, since they've

added Odell Beckham. And I think it's looked like business as usual. The funny thing is like, you know, we have this perception of Odell Beckham, you know, being in the art and all the glitz and glamour outside of football. But, you know, McVeigh and even Stafford have talked about how like he might be one of the smartest football players that they've been around. And that Monday night play against the Cardinals where, you know, he runs out of bounds and people are freaking out, like, why is he going out of bounds? But then he runs backwards that way the clock keeps running. That's just one example of how intelligent a football player he is. And so, you know, the practices I've shown up to, like, Odell's been in the mix a little bit. There was one where he wasn't. But, you know,

cup and Stappert again like that. That's, you know, you know, business as usual. And even Van Jefferson. I know that Jordan Roderick, again, from the athletic road, a really good piece about how Van Jefferson is really, you know, taken under Odell Beckham's wing and really learn from him, you know, the nuances of playing the position, especially, you know, in absence of Robert Woods and how he stepped up over recent weeks. So the Rams have a goal. It's cliche to say, but they're trying to go to a Super Bowl and you can definitely see it in the way that they approach things. That's so interesting. Yeah. I mean, you can see it with Odell too

because I think a lot of there are so many just overblown or just downright false things and narratives about him but the idea that like he's sort of a diva he's certainly not playing like one right because okay against Arizona he's six of seven

77 yards in touchdown he's got three touchdowns since he got there but he's blocking and like that is so important to McVeigh that his receivers also be able to lock. And he was doing a lot of that against Arizona. And I almost think that's, it's not as important, but it's really, really important not only because of the scheme that he's playing in, but also because they are trying to make this collective effort to replace Robert Woods. That's such a big

part of what Robert Woods did for them and why he's so perfect in that scheme. And it's at least not the first thing that I would have thought of when I thought of, okay, how's O'Dell going to fit in? in L.A., how is this going to work, was, oh, he'll be great because he's going to, like, really willingly and max effort block. But I think, like, those things start building, right? When everybody feels like there's at least a possibility that they're going to make this deep playoff run and they've got really, really talented players, the buy-in, I mean, you see it in things like that.

And it's got a matter on some level. And it obviously matters to the scheme, but I think it matters to the vibe. too. We love a good vibe. Yeah, it absolutely does. And that's the thing. They want to make a Super Bowl. And it sounds so cliche, but having been around, you know, that team in particular, like, they want it. They want it. Like, there's a reason, like Matthew Stafford spent so much time during the offseason trying to hone down on the system. There's a reason why, you know,

O'Dell Beckham, like you mentioned, being willing to come to a team where, you know, at the time Robert Woods was still healthy, you know, being willing to take on. a role, a specific role, where they're asking them to block a little bit more and not be the number one receiver on the team. That's Cooper Cup by far. But there's a willingness and a selflessness that needs to occur. And I think

when you watch the Rams game in, game out, and even at practice, they're doing everything it takes to get towards that goal. So I'm curious where as they, you know, because that goal is sort of the all-important thing here, where you feel like they slot in in the

NFC? I'd Probably put them third. I think the Packers are the better team. I think the Buccaneers are a better team. I want to say the Cowboys are, but I'm kind of hesitant because I think Dax still hasn't recovered from that calf injury. He hasn't looked the same.

And, you know, I think he's a difference, again, between them being third and the Rams. I put them forth. I put them ahead of the Cardinals at this point. I think even without, you know, if the Andre Hopkins was healthy, I think that the Rams are the more complete team. I think, again, their ceiling is a little bit higher

than what Arizona had, even with Hopkins there. So I think that the Rams are right in the mix and they're not too far off from, you know, pushing four, you know, two or even one with the Packers if they can keep everything in order. Whoa. To me, they're, so pre-Hopkins definitively done injury,

I would have said their fourth or fifth. And my question, it would have been between sort of the team I think the Cowboys can be if Dax's recent struggles are totally health-related. And if that gets better and he gets more comfortable with his calf and that all fixes itself, then I do really believe in the Cowboys. I'm not quite sure if I think that's true. So that's, that was sort of my decision point. Obviously losing Hopkins makes a huge difference there.

I just, I was surprised the Rams one that. game, but I also just don't think that Kyler is going to turn it over that much on a consistent basis. Like, I don't think that you can count on that happening if that game's played like 10 times. The question I have then is, so the teams that, the NFC teams that sort of have a bunch of different ways to beat you, well, I guess except for Dallas because you're maybe slotting them in third. those are the ones that are higher up.

I'm curious because some of their losses, like the 49ers, the Titans, those are sort of the big physical teams. Do you feel like they are susceptible to getting pushed around a little bit? I think so a little bit, and it's because of, you know, the way that they scheme. You know, they're okay with deploying those light boxes.

They love the two-eye shells to prevent you from hitting on the big plays. The problem is, again, like the Packers, the bucks and even the cowboys, that's a fair point. Like those three offensive lines, you know, for the most part, are going to be able to control the line of scrimmage. And, you know, I think we've already debunk that Aaron Donald is a bad run defender.

I don't think that's true. But, you know... That was a weird week on the internet. I forgot about that. That was a really weird, strange time. But it's like, you know, cherry picking, trying to find a fault in, you know, the best player,

arguably in the league. But I still don't think... You know, I think he's enough of a game record, especially if, you know, Dak Prescott is not healthy. I think he makes enough of a difference within that front to where, you know, the way that the Rams deployed their defense won't be too much of an issue. And the other thing is that their linebackers, especially, you know, rookie Ernest Jones, who's played well, you know, ever since the Rams traded away

Kenny Young, I think if he continues to play at the level that he's playing at, then this won't be too big of an issue until, you know, playoff. It'll be a coin flip. I don't think it'll be as big as an issue as people are perceiving it to be right now. And one of the sort of surprises of this year has been, Greg Gates is pretty good. I mean, I still think that not having Sebastian Joseph Day is a problem for them just because so much of what they do defensively is built around,

okay, we're not going to commit that many research. sources defensively, like right up the middle to stop the run. But it's like if you have one guy who can kind of do it and two gap and get a lot done for you, it's so important and not having him since week seven. I don't know if there's been any, when he went out, I think there was some question over whether or not he would be able to make it back at any point in the season or if he was totally done. I don't know if there's, I don't think I've heard any update on that. I don't know if you have. Yeah. So that. I can't recall. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think it's, I think when he went down, it was maybe at the end of the season, maybe not.

And we'll see. Obviously, I think if he came back, that would be significant. But that said, Gaines, who's basically a replacement, he's been pretty good. And it's always funny when you see these like fourth round guys on the Rams start to really contribute because it's like, all right, well, if you're not going to pick in the first round until, you know, 2067, better hit on some, like 315 pound defensive linemen who can like still kind of scoot. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Like you mentioned, like they get rid of all their first, second, third round picks and they'll somehow hit on fourth, fifth, sixth round picks and find their way to contribute.

Greg Gaines, you know, it's funny because last year, I think the guy was Morgan Fox who really popped for them within that front. Now he got a really big payday. I think he's in Carolina. Forgive me if that's the wrong team. But yeah, this is the second year in a row where the range. Rams have been able to find, you know, a gem within the defensive line and have someone really contribute, which helps when you have someone like Aaron Donald who, you know, not that he's coming off the field, but you need someone alongside him within that interior, not just on the perimeter to be able to affect the game. Right. I think it makes all the sense in the world because their scouts don't have to, they don't have to account for that many draft picks. They have all that extra time.

They don't have to scout the entire first round. Of course, they're hitting on all of these late rounders. Kind of along those lines, is there any team that they could face in the playoffs who, other than like, okay, nobody wants to play Tampa Bay, nobody wants to play Green Bay. But like, are there any of the sort of middle tier playoff teams that seem particularly scary from the Rams perspective? Man, that's a good question. I feel like, I'm trying to think middle tier has got to be San Francisco, is Minnesota going to be one of those teams? Oh, God.

I don't know. I don't think so. I think scared, no, because, again, they will always have, they will always present, you know, the most star power out of all those teams that they're facing. I think maybe San Francisco only because of familiarity thing with Kyle Shanahan,

and, you know, they're coming off of victory against them, though. So that's the other thing, too. It's, I don't think that the Rams, again, like, other than, you know, going in the Lambo, facing Green Bay potentially again. And then even Tampa Bay, who they've already beaten this season, I'm not sure who the Rams couldn't beat out of the NFC. Yeah, that's, I think that's kind of like how I end up feeling too,

is I don't really think I trust them to win three playoff games in a row. But there's also no team that I don't think they couldn't beat. Like, there's no matchup where it just seems like, okay, if Stafford's not having a mistake game, if he's not throwing picks, like that's at least even if not more. I think the answer's,

I still think the answer is San Francisco just because I do think that they could at least try to bully them a little bit. Obviously, you'd rather be rolling with Stafford than with Jimmy, but there's sort of a, there's good Jimmy and bad Jimmy, and I still think that's the team that if they're healthy,

is a little bit scary. Right. And again, like the familiarity thing. I feel like if there's any coach who can have, like, play mind games with Sean McVay, it's probably Shanahan. So weird. What does that even look like? Like, put something weird and it's put glue in his hair gel?

Because I doubt, I doubt either responds or would even have the audacity to text the other that week. But I could totally see, like, a bro texting more like, oh, we're going to win this week, man. Like, I got you. Like, I got something. It's got to be like, it's got to be completely one or the other. Either it's like they're so serious that they will not even acknowledge each other. Or it's just constant like they can't say anything real. So they're just texting each other like, you're going to lose, bro.

You're going to lose bro. Like back and forth forever. I would watch like a, I would watch like a 15 minute televised like pregame serious interview television feature treatment on just. like their text thread. Probably not going to happen. It'd be interesting. All right, Kaelin. A final prediction that I'm not ever going to hold you to.

How does the 2021 Rams season end? I picked them in the Super Bowl during our preseason poll, so I'm sticking to it until I feel otherwise. I think they're going to make it. I don't know if they win it, but I'm picking them to make it. My takeaway from this pod is that the Rams have great vibes. because you're in the mix. And I don't know if I realized that.

It really seems like you think they have great vibes. They have good energy. They think they can do it. I mean, they do. And, you know, I've learned as a journalist, as a beat writer, whatever, like not to buy into people because there's a lot of times where good vibes don't mean good results. But the thing is, like, with their process, just on the field, I feel like outside of,

you know, the idea that McVeigh, you know, kind of stagnates his offense a little bit, we've seen some growth there. We've seen them make the necessary upgrades, you know, at quarterback. We've seen them add to pass rush with, you know, the defensive front, which, you know, going into postseason will be a big deal. And it feels like their secondary has everything together and they have the star power in the right places. So, you know, whether I'm buying into it or not, I don't think, I don't think I am. Like, I didn't think that much of the Rams last season.

But, you know, again, getting Stafford this year. and again, if he continues to play at the level that he's played at, then I think I don't see why the Rams can't make the Super Bowl. I just don't. Side note, Stafford does have good vibes. You know, I would totally think it's from Southern California, not from Texas. It still baffles me how much they got done in Cabo,

just like running into each other on vacation. Like, that's crazy to me. It's just like one conversation. Sean McGrath is like, yes, this guy. He has good vibes. He has very good vibes. Very late back. I could see them meshing. Matthew Stafford has great vibes and the Rams are going to the Super Bowl. You heard it from Kalin Jones. That's fantastic.

All right, Kalen, you want to stick around and do a mailbag with us? Sure thing. Fantastic. We got very good questions this week. I kind of wish we had time for more, but we're just going to do three. Maybe Mal and I will mess around on the old bird and answer a question. couple others on Twitter because they were very good. It's just very, very happy to get such great questions. So here's the first one.

It is from Andy Pelsel. Looking at the current playoff picture, which team do you have the least amount of faith in to win a playoff game? So currently, the playoff teams are in the AFC, the Patriots, the Titans, the Chiefs, the Ravens, the Chargers, the Colts, and the bills. And then in the NFC, it's the Packers,

the Bucks, the Cardinals, the Cowboys, the Rams, the 49ers, and the Washington football team. Might need to do,

too. I know what mine are, Gailin, but I'm going to have you go first. I think it's got to be Carson once. I hate the pick on the guy because he gets picked on a lot,

but out of all the quarterbacks, because even Mac Jones, like that, initially that was going to be my pick, but I expect Mac Jones to function within the system properly. I feel like every time the Colts turn to Carson Wentz, things kind of go a little bit haywire, and you never know what you're going to get.

So I think that would be the least guy to have the least amount of faith in. Wow, I really disagree with this. Oh, really? Okay. I would pick both Washington and Baltimore before before the Colts. Just because I think, look, when there is a left-handed interception and multiple shovel-pass interceptions

in a season that cannot be forgotten, that is baked into the Carson-Wenst formula, and I acknowledge it as canon, he's been, when he's not doing ridiculous things, he's been okay. I just think that they're I think they're solid enough defensively to keep most things in front of them

and then, you know, they've got Buckner who can be just a game wrecker. I think they're pretty sound defensively and then I think they can beat you in multiple ways on offense. I don't, it depends on the team, particularly just because they don't have any one

like crazy dominant receiver, but the receivers are pretty big. And I'm really curious, Like, for instance, I'm incredibly curious to watch them against the Patriots this week because I think the Patriots are a better team, but they're going to have matchups where it's like, if J.C.

Jackson has to guard Pittman, he's giving a better player. Like, J.C. Jackson is better at being a cornerback than Michael Pittman as it being a receiver. But he's giving up a lot of size in that. And they're going to be giving up a decent amount of size sort of across the board there. And I'm curious to see how they handle it.

But I'm a little bit, I have like a little bit of a weird current thing for the Colts. The Ravens, I just think, are too injured. Like, they're just past the point of no return. And then, I mean, the Washington football team... Oh, you don't believe in Heineke? I, like, love Taylor Heineke. It kills me.

It kills me to appreciate the skills of a Carson-Wenz led football team more than a Taylor Hineke. Heineke-led football team in this case, but I have to be honest, I just think that it's a little bit more like all around solid. Although Washington's defense has like remembered that it was supposed to be good, but I would still go Ravens or Washington before. That's fair. But the Colts would probably be the next one. All right. Here's your next question from Jack. Of all the starting quarterbacks in the NFL, who would you trust to plan your vacation? Oh, who would I trust. Okay, I thought it was distrust.

Not going to lie. No, who do you trust to plan your vacation? So you're going on a trip and you have to hand over all of the details and all the logistics and all of the decision making to one of these starting quarterbacks in the National Football League. Man.

The thing that's tricky is do you factor in which quarterbacks have more vacation time on their hands than others? Because there's one answer to this where it's just like, Kurt Cousins, you've gotten some reps at this, man. Oh, my gosh.

And this is for playoff teams, right? Specifically playoff teams? Any, and it doesn't get playoffs. Any team. Okay. I feel like Baker Mayfield would be fun to hang out with. I don't know. Would you be good at playing?

I will say, the one thing that's not clear in this question is whether or not the quarterback is coming with you, which, like, really changes things. Okay. change things. Who do I put? Herbert, probably Herbert would, or my Holmes, Herbert or Merlems, one of those two, either I'm going to get very laid back, you know, not do too much, not bite off more than I can chew from Justin Herbert, but I feel like Patrick Mahomes, probably going to give me like more than I can chew, and then I'll have options to choose from, but they won't be too overwhelming. If that makes sense, but those will be my two. That's like, my version of

that is if the quarterback is not coming, I want Brady to do it. Because like, he knows, he knows about some like mega rich person nonsense that it's not listed on the internet. Like, he can, he can get you into the Yellowstone club. He can do all sorts of weird stuff. And like, I want that. However, I don't care how nice it is. I do not want to go on vacation with Tom Brady. Nothing against the man. But like, he's going to be like, We're going to bed at 8 p.m. We're not having snacks. Like, that sounds horrible.

Or whatever. Yeah. Like, no, that is not the energy I want on my vacation. I just want Tom Brady to be like, I dropped a name and now you get to go to this, like, hyper luxurious, like, whatever in some secret location on an island somewhere. Maybe you'll come home with Bitcoin. Like, the secret Bitcoin island. Yeah, I want Tom Brady to send me to this.

I actually really don't. If the quarterback has to come, I like the Herbert idea. I feel like he would just be like, chill and leave you alone. Right, right. Don't do too much. Like, stay within yourself. Yeah, I think that's good. All right.

Our last question is from Brett. Are the 2021 Cowboys the best hard knocks, team ever. Okay. I did a little bit of research here. So, here's the competition. Here are the Hard Knocks teams who have won at least 10 games since Hard Knocks was the thing. The 2001 Ravens, who went 10 and 6 and lost in the wildcard round.

The 2009 Bengals also went 10 and 6 lost in the wild card round. The 2010 Jets went 11 and 5 lost in the conference championship. They beat the Colts and the Patriots and then lost. to the Steelers in the playoffs. The 2013 Bengals, also in 11 and 5, lost in the wild card round. Then the 2020 Rams

went 10 and 6, lost in the divisional round. And presumably, the 2021 Cowboys, they've not hit the 10-win threshold yet, but I assume that they will, and we will see how far they go in the playoffs. I think it comes down,

And you can correct me if you feel differently, Kaelan. But I think it comes down to the 2010 Jets and the 2021 Cowboys. Okay. That's fair. The Jets? Any other, anyone else in there who you feel like is getting shortchanged by that? I was going to sneak in whichever the first Bengals team was. The 0-9 Bengals.

Yeah. But I think, I can't remember. Was that the year that Carson Palmer got hurt? or was this already Andy Dalton era? I think that was Palmer in 2009. Okay. So is that... You feel like it's a three-man race?

No, I don't know. I don't think it's a three-man race. I'm just... You know, I loved Chad Johnson, so I'm thinking about him. No, I think you got it right, though. Like the Jets, the year that they made the AFC championship game,

and then this year's version of the Cowboys, yeah, it's definitely... Two-team race. I probably still lean Jets only because that team was pretty good from what I remember. Outside of Mark Sanchez. So,

who played the totally insignificant position of quarterback? Right, right, right. We obviously have to revisit this when we see how the Cowboys season ends because I think the argument for the Jets is just like they beat the Colts and the Patriots. They won two playoff games. they lost in the conference championship.

Like, that's a pretty significant playoff run and they should be awarded on that basis. Statistically, okay, they were 18th. They were 18th in EPA per play and sixth in EPA per play allowed. So they have good defense. Great defense. The 2021 Cowboys so far are 14th in EPA per play,

fourth in EPA per play allowed. So they're statistically better. They're a more efficient team. It's funny that they have kind of a similar profile, although, like, again, I'm not willing to fully admit that their offense is this middle of the pack. Right. But it's funny that right now they have kind of a similar profile

of being a team where the defense is kind of doing the most work. But I think right now, like, if they didn't make a... conference championship game, but finished better statistically than that Jets team. I would still say that it was the Jets just because, like, the Cowboys have been good.

So it's kind of like the Cowboys are just, like, doing their thing, and they happened to be on hard knocks. That's, like, the best Jets year, and they were on Hard Knocks. So... Like, I don't know if you've followed

the last decade in New York Jets football. But 11 and 5 and losing in the conference championship game is looking pretty good right now. So I think kind of, I think it goes to the Jets, is what I'm saying,

but we should revisit it. It has to because you beat Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the same playoff run. That's significant. I know they lost the Steelers. That might as well get, you might as well get a Super Bowl for that. Like, you know, honorary Super Bowl

to the 2000. What year was it, 2010 Jets? 2010. Yeah. Maybe you do. You just get like a super secret Lombardi trophy that they keep on Tom Brady's Bitcoin Island. There you go.

There you go. All right. Thank you to everybody who sent questions. Thank you to Kaelin for so kindly sticking around to answer them with me. This has been the Thursday edition of the Ringer NFL show. As always, I am Nora Pinciotti. Mallory and I will be back after the holidays. Ben Solac, Stephen Ruiz, and Kalyn will be coming up next on this feed,

previewing the week 15 games this Friday. I'll be back Sunday night with Kevin Clark, Solac, and Ruiz to break down all of Sunday's action. The next two weeks on the feed will be a little bit different. No pods on Thursday or Friday, but we're going to have some special crossover pods earlier in the week sprinkled in. Mal and I will be back at the top of next year. Thank you so much to producer Devin Manzi for production on this episode and to Arjuna Ramgapal for additional production supervision.